There is some biblical justification for the inserted aleph of the Aramaic formation because the Hebrew aleph had begun to quiesce by this time. So Zechariah 14:10 derives ראמה from רמה (3fs of רום) and Hosea 10:14 derives קאם from קום (cf. Daniel 7:16 [Aramaic] which derives קאמיא from קום). This phenomenon influenced Herodian-period biblical Hebrew orthography as well, so as an example, I once made a comparison of the orthography of Isaiah 40 between Codex Leningradensis and 1QIsa and found the following divergences in the employment of aleph (7 differences in the span of 9 verses!): v.4 גיא (MT); גי (DSS) v.5 כי פי (MT); כיא פיא (DSS) v.7 בו (MT); בוא (DSS) v.10 לו (MT); לוא (DSS) v.11 טלאים (MT); טלים (DSS) [medial position!] v.12 מי (MT); מיא (DSS)
That was my experience when comparing the Heb of the DSS with the MT. There are a lot of Alephs that are retained in the fashion you described. But I don't have enough experience with Aramaic to fully support my hypothesis. But I suspect that the corruption could actually be explained by Aramaic variation, but that would date the text waaaaay later than Christians want.
@@Deconstruction_Zone We do have a manuscript that translates to karu, rather than ka'aru suggesting that only the copies are employing this change rather than the original having this form. So, there is no need to date the original later, or maybe you were just referring to the copied manuscripts that we have.
You are every Christian’s nightmare. You know their book better than they do, all the way down to the original language. They can’t gaslight you so it’s game over as soon as they call in. This is my new favorite channel.
I discovered your channel about a month ago and quickly subscribed. I hope your channel goes viral as you’re an excellent representative of non-believers. I too am an electrical engineer so I appreciate the way you think, your logic, knowledge and approach in debating people of faith. Keep up the good work!
This is the same laughing stock who Iied and said chatgpt is Iying when I pointed out how 99.8% of actual Atheist/Agnostic NT scholars affirm the Disciples and others truly believed to see Jesus risen bodily. And that their best desperate excuse is it was a mass hallucination which doesnt occur in reality, proving the Resurrection. Literally just a laughing stock who God predestined and gave over to satan for Eternal Torment. 😂
0:54 What *IS a prophecy* - 1/. Predictive nature. 2/. Divine source. 3/. Reveals divine information. 4/. Has a context. 5/. Testable. 6/. Clearly a prophecy when spoken. What *is NOT a prophecy* - 1/. Any random text. 2/. Historical narratives. 3/. 1st person laments, psalms, speeches. 4/. Texts claiming to be another genre. Excellent video, Justin!!!!
I find it interesting that when someone views the scriptures in a positive light, then anyone can understand the bible and they have the right interpretation. However, when someone points out inconsistencies or views it in a negative light, now they need to be biblical scholars and theologians and need a PhD in hermeneutics
And even if that person has all of that, the goal post shifting never ends, as they eventually reach the "holy spirit" requirement or "deception" blockade.
Even if the translation said "pierced", which wouldn't make any sense at all, you still have to wonder why the entire meaning shifts from David's lament to a small snippet that is all of a sudden about Jesus. Christians are all about context...until they're not.
That last sentence nails it (pun intended). They’re all about context - except when it’s inconvenient, or when they haven’t actually read it themselves but are just copying what someone else told them.
Oh, you mean that psalm where the guy whines about his hands and feet being all messed up? Yeah, real unique, like no one else in history ever had a bad day. And surprise, surprise, Christians claim it's all about Jesus. Because, obviously, every sad song in the Old Testament must be about him. Get over yourselves.
This is the same laughing stock who Iied and said chatgpt is Iying when I pointed out how 99.8% of actual Atheist/Agnostic NT scholars affirm the Disciples and others truly believed to see Jesus risen bodily. And that their best desperate excuse is it was a mass hallucination which doesnt occur in reality, proving the Resurrection. Literally just a laughing stock who God predestined and gave over to satan for Eternal Torment. 😂
You know, if I was an omnipotent god, even if I wanted my texts to be open to interpretation about what the words MEAN, I'd still make sure that they were passed along correctly, so that people would at least know what the words ARE.
3:14 Psalm 10.2 “In arrogance, the wicked persecute the poor. Let them be caught in the schemes they have devised.” Reminds me of current events. Only I am not so sure about the second part happening. 😔
Great info, Justin! For me, I think the thing that truly puts the final nail in the _"Psalm 22=Jesus"_ debate is the fact that, according to John 10:18, no one could take Jesus' life from him - he had been given authority by the Father to lay his life down and to take it up again. This is the exact opposite situation of the suffering Psalmist, who is constantly worried about his physical life and is begging God to save him from his enemies. Jesus even told Peter that twelve legions of angels were at his disposal if he wanted to be saved from arrest _(Matt 26:53)_ ; the Psalmist had no such divine assurance. Bottom line is, Jesus was in trouble by choice, while the Psalmist was not, and I think that's some of the clearist evidence why Psalm 22 cannot be about Jesus.
@Number0neSon Ive called in. It was very easy to confound justin. The majority of top atheist & agnostic NT scholars with actual PHD's, all affirm that the disciples and others truly believed to see the Risen Jesus bodily alive. The best excuse & hypothesis they can muster up is that it was a Mass Mutual Hallucination, (which doesn't occur in reality). This further proves the validity of the Resurrection. When I mentioned this to justin, the only desperate defense mechanism in which he can do, was to lie and say chatGPT is listing false names of scholars and lying, and to trust him. It simply shows how bad he knows this is for him and can't actually counter it honestly. Easy and emberassing.
I keep going back to the thought that if this god had such a powerful message that we all needed to hear, it chose a poor time to proclaim them and did nothing to preserve 'his' word.
Watching this video just jog my memory, in regards to when I was a fervent Evangelical in my late twenties . I had invested much time in studying the scripture and was pretty well acquainted with it At that point. I felt one day that I needed to be grounded in the prophecies regarding Christ. I sat down with a study Bible that had the cross references. I started to look at them one at a time and was not impressed. I couldn't have admitted it with my mouth at that time, but I did feel it in my gut that at least the ones I looked at there was little to nothing there In regards of a prophecy. I guess if apologists and the Christian faith just called it spiritual coincidence or or shadows or something that might be okay. On the contrary, however, we proclaimed it as a miraculous event that should convince all unbelievers because of the exact prophecies... When you're in the midst of it, it seems too fearful to even fully acknowledge it to yourself.
Well said, well thought-out response, I had never considered this moderated angle before. As a Christian I was taught that this was pure solid irrefutable messianic prophecy.
Agreed, it is a post hoc rationalization and coping to say it's a prophecy when it clearly isn't. As is the whole New Testament when you think about it (because the Messiah in the Old Testament was not supposed to die, is not god, only has one coming, and is supposed to set up a physical kingdom not a spiritual one). But again, love that you're doing more vids like this aside from the lives! Also love to see the deep dive you give and are able to offer as well into the original languages. Especially with this topic, an underrated perhaps, but very strong proof against the Bible I think, and one of many cumulative reasons I deconstructed and deconverted. I never understand when Christians say that because a text references an earlier one or is "hyperlinked" that it's therefore divine, when humans quote and reference previous things on their own all the time, without any need of anything divine to do so. It's crazy how much makes way more sense when the scales of the way you've been taught to misread and butcher the OT by Christians fall away from eyes and you can read it for what it actually says and means. I always love to use Paulogia's criteria for determining prophecy ever since I found them and am learning to use them more: 1. Made clearly and demonstrably prior to the events predicted. 2. Intended to be a prediction. 3. A non-mundane claim. 4. Answerable only by a single, clear, verifiable occurrence. 5. Not open to interpretation. 6. Not something people are actively attempting to fulfill. and it's cool to see your 6 points have some overlap as well, it would be cool to see you collab with him sometime (whether in a vid or a live, or maybe a Line episode one day whether in this topic or any other honestly).
Psalms 22 might not be a prophesy, but 18:2, 31, 46, 19:14, 28:1, 31:2-3, 42:9, 62:2, 6, 71:3, 78:35, 92:15, 94:22, 95:1, and 114:8 are all signs and prophesies for Doug. I spent way too much time on that. Haha
You have helped me SO MUCH in my deconstruction. Thankfully, now my kids (5 and 2) won’t be brainwashed and traumatized with imaginations and the fear mongering religion is responsible for. Just made a year in my deconstryction this past December. I’m always watching the lives being entertained, upset at the foolishness of the callers, but also realizing how I sounded for the past 30 years, having been so deeply indoctrinated. Thanks for all you do. I definitely would like that cheat sheet you talk about. Can we just cashapp a gift for that? Discord sounds cool too because I have SO MANY theological and historical questions. Thanks for everything! Matt
Thank you so much for this in depth debunking of this prophecy! I hope you plan to do more! You are educating all of us in a digestable way. Thanks again!
The way the NT just rips non-prophetic Hebrew Scriptures out of context and asserts, “these 2.5 verses are definitely about Jesus!” is so clearly the product of years of reflection after the life of Jesus, where the gospel writers combed the Hebrew bible looking for anything they could apply to some detail in Jesus’ life. Meanwhile, when it comes to unambiguous messianic prophecies, that make concrete predictions about the future, it’s all, “Well, Jesus fulfilled that in a spiritual sense”, or “Jesus WILL fulfill that when he comes back!” In other words, there’s just no there there.
I wish I could subscribe to this channel 1000 times. You are doing an important and noble service for humanity. *Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance*- George Bernard Shaw
I don't think Christians are lying when they say this is about Jesus. I don't think they intentionally deceive people. I think they honestly think this is about Jesus.
the translations of the Bible are like playing telephone....what comes out in the end rarely matches what went in at the beginning, especially when changing from one language to another language.
@@Soapy-chan I'll help you out...let me explain. Most theists always find themselves misunderstanding the scope. So, for example, when an atheist points out a contradiction or inconsistency in the Bible, they are often engaging in critical analysis of the text. The point is to demonstrate that the Bible is not internally coherent, which may undermine claims that it is divinely inspired or infallible. However, a lot of theists interpret this as an attack on the existence of God itself. This stems from a conflation of the Bible’s validity with the truth of God’s existence. For many theists, the Bible is seen as the ultimate authority and foundation of their faith. Therefore, pointing out a contradiction in the Bible feels like an existential threat to their belief system, even if that wasn’t the atheist’s explicit point. This leads them to respond defensively, addressing what they perceive as the "bigger picture" (the existence of God or the truth of the Bible) rather than the specific contradiction being raised. Plus, a lot of them are embarrassed that they were proven wrong and refuse to acknowledge it even when they've clearly been cornered. Make sense?
*Brilliant job DZ. I'm also very happy that you discuss the English translation of the Tanakh by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS) as the one that is perhaps most faithful to the letter and spirit of the original Hebrew. It would be an interesting academic project to compare line-by-line the JPS translation with other English translations of the Hebrew bible which duplicitously distort the original Hebrew text to 'Christianize' it. Has anyone done this kind of analysis to expose the ruse?*
But, but, but… without divine intervention, how could the authors of the Jesus narrative write a story that so closely matched the pre-existing psalm unless god sneakily smuggled prophecy into a first-person, present-tense, story about David? There’s just no possible way to account for the similarities without magic… erm, I mean god.
Justin im an Jehovah Witness who am totally confused about 587/607 when Jerusalem's destruction by the babylonians and 1914. Can you do a video on the subject. I like your videos
Christians love the greek septuagint, of course only when it suits them. Look at the Wes Huff thing with the masoretic text being so accurate. Because of the older version of the Septuagint Christianity use to accuse Jewish people of changing the text but that was proven wrong with the dead sea scrolls and we all know from Wes how accurate the masoratic texts are not so with the Septuagint however.
Cleverness is like a lens with a very sharp focus. Wisdom is more like a wide-angle lens. Edward de Bono Like a lion (that pierces their prey) so they have pierced my hands and my feet. It is possible that the original Hebrew word was “כארו” (digging) and some Masoretes corrupted the text. However, “like a lion” is not a completely out-of-context reading. The Psalm uses an animal motif to refer to the perpetrators, referring to them as bulls (verse 12), dogs (verses 16, 20), unicorns (verse 21) and even lions elsewhere (verses 13, 21). In light of this, ardent supporters of “כארי” (like a lion) may never be convinced otherwise. The translation, “they pierced”, however, can be justified even if “כארי” (like a lion) were the original reading. Jewish scholars recognize that some liberties with the syntax and grammar must be taken to make the text of Psalm 22:16 make sense. There is no subject and verb in “like a lion my hands and my feet.” Most scholars agree that the implied subject is “they”, which refers to the “assembly of the wicked”. It is not right to charge the KJV of erroneously supplying “they” and a verb on the basis of “כארי” because Jewish translations do the same. The only basis for any criticism is the choice of the verb as “pierced” and the absence of the English equivalent of the words, “like a lion”. “Pierced” The irregular use of “כארי” suggests that an idiom or figurative meaning is signified. With respect to why the verb should be “pierced,” one possible reason is that a lion’s bite results in piercing the prey with the fangs. Hebrew scholar Allen P. Ross, author of Introducing Biblical Hebrew and Grammar, says regarding Psalm 22:16, “The image in the psalmist’s mind was probably of dogs nipping at the hands and feet and puncturing them.” (Allen P. Ross, A Commentary on the Psalms, Vol. 1(1-41) (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications), p. 524). Even the Aramaic Targum identifies the implied verb as “bite” so the logical extension may be “pierce”. Numbers 23:24 further supports this interpretation that a lion’s attack results in one being pierced. It says: KJV: “Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eats of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.” Hebrew: “הן־עם כלביא יקום וכארי יתנשׂא לא ישׁכב עד־יאכל טרף ודם־חללים ישׁתה׃” YLT: “Lo, the people as a lioness riseth, And as a lion he lifteth himself up, He lieth not down till he eateth prey, And blood of pierced ones doth drink.'” The word that is translated “the slain” in the KJV is the Hebrew word “חללים” which means, “slain, fatally wounded, pierced” (Brown-Driver-Briggs). Young’s Literal Translation has preferred to translate “חללים” as “pierced ones” at Numbers 23:24. Several translations render חלל in its verb form as “pierced” in Isaiah 53:5, which is another Messianic prophecy: NIV: “But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.” NLT: “But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.” ESV (2011): “But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.” NASB: “But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.” Going back to Numbers 23:24, the imagery is one of a lion piercing and eating its prey. Thus, there is biblical precedent for interpreting being “like a lion” as to “pierce” a victim. “Pierced” is as good an interpretation of the verb as anything else that has been suggested. Interestingly, the length and shape of the fangs of a lion may closely resemble the nails of crucifixion. “Like a lion” piercing its prey with fangs?
Justin, please stop doing those other videos so much of callers wasting so much time, talking about the same 4-5 points in the Bible, badgering them until they answer the way you want them too, which is the obvious correct answer to the way you phrase the questions. I know they made your channel successful but they are getting boring and so time wasted where we aren’t going to keep listening. Do more educational videos just like this on controversial subjects, that help us to learn how to combat or argue apologist when they bring these points up. This video was great, so please do more just like this. Bonus: do any debate videos like with Wes or others, and then also do other videos with other biblical scholars or TH-cam successes like Alex O’Connor, Dan McClellan, Bart Ehrman, etc. if you need any of their cell numbers let me know. Great job, and I appreciate your teaching.
@@Deconstruction_Zone Not sure of the guy in TESTIFY vids but would love to see you deconstruct his arguments. He's another apologist but appears to use some novel arguments....an apologist using a novel argument? 🤔 Is that even possible?😅
Both styles have their place. This well structured lecture video targets serious learners, & gives a lot of info quickly. But the to-and-fro of Justin's debates is entertainingly educational, with opposing views put under challenge, and brilliantly shows how to hold people's feet to the fire.
@ yes you are correct, I have enjoyed them until recently. The same topics keep getting brought up and it seems very rarely do we see an educated person on the other end, then if that person is even allowed to properly speak at times, or just mumbles along and next thing you know, a full 5-8 mins has gone by until Justin finally gets the obvious answer he was asking for the whole time so the call can move along. So these educational videos right to the point teaching is far more efficient and will keep his target audience longer.
btw in Mark Jesus does not recite the Psalm. You would not recite a Psalm in reversed order, right? In Mark Jesus is a conn artist, a deceptive liar and hypocrit. You would expect that he gets a redemption arc at least in the end. Instead you get a joke about Eli Eli lama sabachthani, and it is the bystander who has to remind Jesus about John/Elijah or rather something Jesus should repent, namely his hand in the demise of John. So the question is: is Psalm 22 used to mock Jesus further, or is it a glimpse at a Jesus who finally get's it? For me that is too thin to state that Jesus repents at the cross. Jesus dies as a unredeemed moron and warning sign.
So your contention is that David was at some point bound, or had his hands pierced by his enemies, somehow placed in public display for his enemies to stare at him, stripped naked while they gamble on who gets to keep his clothing... can you explain when in David's life this happened? I'm going to call you plastic man, because damn, can you stretch. 'stock imagery', lol. I pity anyone who falls for this BS.
Psalm 22 alludes to son of David Absalom's rebellion, which is a major source for the gospels, especially the character Judas and the passion. This is not Mark trying to fit a 'prophecy' onto a real Jesus of Nazareth. This is Mark using Judean literature to create Jesus of Nazareth whole cloth. Most 'prophecies' of the gospels make perfect sense if the reader simply realizes the author is pointing to the text he is quoting, and usually in the gospels is meant to point to the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred before ANY GOSPEL WAS WRITTEN.
psalm 22, the beginning of the revolt/ absalom is surrounded by soldiers, hung in a tree, pierced by a spear, psalm 23 the kidron valley is the valley of death, psalm 24 victory, reestablishing the throne, rising in the case of Jesus
*Jesus is clearly speaking to the disciples and gives a timeframe for when the Son of Man would come.* *"Jesus sent these twelve out,* charging them, saying: Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not go into a Samaritan city. *But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.* And going on, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven has drawn near" (Matthew 10:5-7) “Truly I say to you, ***you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes”*** (Matthew 10:23); For the *Son of man* shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.*** Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the *Son of Man* coming in his kingdom (Matthew 16:27-28) Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here*** will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27) Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Mark 13:30) *He says that the coming of the Son of Man will be accompanied by:* The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. Then will appear the sign of the *Son of Man* in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the *Son of Man* coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Matthew 24:29-34) There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the *Son of Man* coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. When you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Luke 21:25-32) He also falsely prophesied to the high priest, the Sanhedrin and Nathaniel. *Jesus falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin* Jesus also falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin (assemblies of either twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal) You will see the *Son of Man* sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and ***coming on the clouds of heaven*** (Matthew 26:64) (Mark 14:62) Except the high priest and the Sanhedrin never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand side of God, or coming on the clouds of heaven, or any such thing. *Jesus falsely prophesied to Nathaniel* Jesus also falsely prophesied to Nathaniel when he declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” Jesus said, You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that. He then added, ***“Very truly I tell you, you will see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man*** (John 1:50-51) *Nathaniel never saw any such thing. Neither did anyone else.* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Also look up: Watch *Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Historical Lecture - Bart D. Ehrman* *"End Times - Evil Bible .com"* *"The End of All Things is At Hand - The Church Of Truth"* *"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"* *"Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists"* (Tim O'Neill is a former Christian and is familiar with most of the Biblical scholarship. He's been studying the scholarship and history for decades) *"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return - Black Nonbelievers, Inc."* Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity. *“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress *"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53 *"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"* *"Did Jesus Fulfill Prophecy? | Westar Institute"* *"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"What Do the Apostles’ Deaths Prove? Guest Post by Kyle Smith. - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
Psalms is David talking and Christian made it about Jesus when if this is the case then Jesus sins and get crucified according to Jewish theology as well as Christian theology as well
In Psalms chapter 10 David must have been referring to himself. Kinda like a preacher, preaching on immorality. Those preachers are usually exposing them selves 😂
Your close family/area you are born in is mostly what determines the religion you choose to believe. You wont find jews in Afghanistan for instance. There are many different gods, some with heaven/hell and others without. There are also many religions that dont even have a god. The chance that one of them is real and you happened to choose the real one is minimal. Without religion civilisation would have never developed as quickly because people wouldnt feel as united/scared to be punished in afterlife and having meaning to life. Religion is a good thing, dont get me wrong, but i dont think a god exists.
I like let no thing botter your mind is spammed if believe its possible to effect ya which has flesh filled with time times to do all vanities nightmares sweet gets sour.
I am a believer a wannabe Christian. Not good enough to be called a Christian No schooling in the text only a reader . You say if or could be may of been probably didn't a lot You are definitely not sure of what you're preaching. Yes there are different Bibles saying different things and things left out of some. I believe they have some copyright thing that you're not allowed to copy and sell others so you have to add or change. It's funny how you believe some scripture over others to disprove. I use the KJ which I believe is closest to the original writings. There are words that were used back then that we do not use as well as words we use now they didn't use back then. and over time a lot of words have changed meanings such as awful and terrible. So it's very hard to get the writings exact in English .There over 300 fulfillment from the old testament of Jesus. They have the original copy of Isiah which talks of his coming. I believe all the writings were written many years before his coming . Not all people are written in the book of life. Some no matter how much you see you will still not see. Just the death in resurrection of Jesus proves there's a higher power. And he is the Son of God And there are more writings of it than any other history in time. You probably don't believe in the flood not enough evidence there. Even if the whole earth was covered in soot only caused by water. In Genesis he tells us how it was made and there's no other way it can come to be. The universe made itself or something made it. Nothing cannot make anything all the laws of physics prove that. You have to be outside of time space and matter. Which is the trinity time past present future space height width length and matter solid liquid and gas. Our GOD is outside of all and above all. Maybe if I could get a hold of Wes Huff you wouldn't mind having a discussion with him. He is a lot more knowledgeable then I. Thank you for your time GOD Bless JESUS is Real JESUS LOVES YOU
@Deconstruction_Zone so if you don't have evidence on either side then you just lean to one side. If you go by the King James all the way. There are a lot less discrepancies. Some are reader error and some not understood. If you get rid of all religion and just face the facts we were made or we made ourselves I'm going to go with science. Everything we know has a maker. Even a toothpick you can have a thousand tornadoes go through the forest and not make one single toothpick to exact shape and size. You get nothing from chaos something that has order created. So then what is the explanation.well it's very well explained in the King James. No other religion gives explanation for existence. And no other figure was resurrected from the dead seen by over 400
More proof of how ridiculous this Jew Cult "prophecy" claim is. *Isaiah 7:14 -Therefore the Lord (YAHWEH) himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Matthew 1:23: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, "God (YAHWEH) with us").* What the Flock? Everybody is supposedly calling him Jeebus , uhhh, Jesus. Jesus doesn't mean Immanuel. Notice that Matthew 1:23 is just a direct copy of Isaiah 7:14. That is "prophecy"?
Deuteronomy 18 contradicts Jeremiah 18 7-10, which states that (at least some) prophecies are conditional. So if Ezekiel 29-32 and Jeremiah 46, both of which state that Egypt will be completely exiled by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC. This didn't happen... so one could say (without evidence of course) that the Egyptians repented, and therefore God didn't go through with the threat. If so, these prophecies would be impossible to verify.
The liars are those who tells that Christ did not know about the future atrocities that would be commited by His future churches,That He did not know about the fruitless trees planted in his name,that He did not know the total mess they would be.He knew that people would hate his représentants and himself. OLD NEWS
@@pascalbedard4191 The superpowered demi-god *_"Jesus the Christ of Nazareth"_* as depicted in the Buy-Bull is an evidently nonexistent fictional character🤣🤣
I was going to write something like this but my comment was going to be sarcastic. I was going to be making fun of the people who say you need holy spirit (decoder rings) to help them make the text say what they want it to say.
Tell me you lack understanding in Christian prophecy without telling me you lack understanding Christian prophecy. Litteraly since the beginning of Christian history these have been understood as typology, as a fulfillment of the Old Testament, not as a fulfillment of messianic prophecy
These two sentences don't make any rational sense. The so-called prophecies are being extracted from the old testes-ment which is supposed to be the source of "messianic prophecy". Sounds like more Apologetics babbling.
The problem with a lot of fundy Christians is that even tho DZ sets out his list of “this is a prophecy and this isn’t” the fundy Christian will still believe “the Bible is the infallible word of god.” I support what you’re doing DZ but trying to logic-in your clear and sufficient standards to reach people who didn’t use logic, reason, nor critical thought to arrive at “the Bible is the infallible word” might mean that attacking the biblical text is less effective than going for the more feely, empathetic arguments again Yahweh
From your rules to comment I can tel you are a control freak. You don’t get to make arbitrary rules to classify parts of the Bible by certain genres, and jeez wiz if they are not in your pre approved prophecy genre then they are off limits to be a prophecy. Who are you that you get to decide how & when God plants a foreshadowing or prophecy? I already knew, you know it all, and that I am wrong, and shouldn’t bother you because one of your arbitrary rules is for commenting is no preaching. Have fun in your safe space, of leading people who love darkness because their deeds are evil, away from eternal life in perfect earth. Congrats. By the way like a lion, still would be close to piercing hands & feet. Lion’s mouth have teeth, teeth can pierce hands and feet. But you arbitrary rules again. I’m sure you have a rule that that’s too many steps away from how you demand god gives a prophecy, that it has to be precisely like a cook book for idiots, so you can follow along.
@@Deconstruction_Zone sick burn. More evidence you are a control freak. When I go to type a comment, a pop for “guidelines for you channel comes up.” Thus rules to comment. But my bad I didn’t use the exact words your control freakness wanted. My apologies. This little exchange of you not knowing or deliberately lying about not knowing what I meant about commenting rules, when you put in guidelines for your channel, shows you shouldn’t be trusted with decoding language especially prophecy.
There is some biblical justification for the inserted aleph of the Aramaic formation because the Hebrew aleph had begun to quiesce by this time. So Zechariah 14:10 derives ראמה from רמה (3fs of רום) and Hosea 10:14 derives קאם from קום (cf. Daniel 7:16 [Aramaic] which derives קאמיא from קום). This phenomenon influenced Herodian-period biblical Hebrew orthography as well, so as an example, I once made a comparison of the orthography of Isaiah 40 between Codex Leningradensis and 1QIsa and found the following divergences in the employment of aleph (7 differences in the span of 9 verses!):
v.4
גיא (MT); גי (DSS)
v.5
כי פי (MT); כיא פיא (DSS)
v.7
בו (MT); בוא (DSS)
v.10
לו (MT); לוא (DSS)
v.11
טלאים (MT); טלים (DSS) [medial position!]
v.12
מי (MT); מיא (DSS)
That was my experience when comparing the Heb of the DSS with the MT. There are a lot of Alephs that are retained in the fashion you described. But I don't have enough experience with Aramaic to fully support my hypothesis. But I suspect that the corruption could actually be explained by Aramaic variation, but that would date the text waaaaay later than Christians want.
@@Deconstruction_Zone you've been hacked...
@@Deconstruction_Zone We do have a manuscript that translates to karu, rather than ka'aru suggesting that only the copies are employing this change rather than the original having this form. So, there is no need to date the original later, or maybe you were just referring to the copied manuscripts that we have.
You are every Christian’s nightmare. You know their book better than they do, all the way down to the original language. They can’t gaslight you so it’s game over as soon as they call in. This is my new favorite channel.
Not every Christian is like a US evangelical. I mean, they're still wrong, but their faith doesn't depend on those details.
I discovered your channel about a month ago and quickly subscribed. I hope your channel goes viral as you’re an excellent representative of non-believers. I too am an electrical engineer so I appreciate the way you think, your logic, knowledge and approach in debating people of faith. Keep up the good work!
This is the same laughing stock who Iied and said chatgpt is Iying when I pointed out how 99.8% of actual Atheist/Agnostic NT scholars affirm the Disciples and others truly believed to see Jesus risen bodily. And that their best desperate excuse is it was a mass hallucination which doesnt occur in reality, proving the Resurrection. Literally just a laughing stock who God predestined and gave over to satan for Eternal Torment. 😂
0:54 What *IS a prophecy* -
1/. Predictive nature.
2/. Divine source.
3/. Reveals divine information.
4/. Has a context.
5/. Testable.
6/. Clearly a prophecy when spoken.
What *is NOT a prophecy* -
1/. Any random text.
2/. Historical narratives.
3/. 1st person laments, psalms, speeches.
4/. Texts claiming to be another genre.
Excellent video, Justin!!!!
I find it interesting that when someone views the scriptures in a positive light, then anyone can understand the bible and they have the right interpretation. However, when someone points out inconsistencies or views it in a negative light, now they need to be biblical scholars and theologians and need a PhD in hermeneutics
Simple answers pacify simple minds.
@@Deconstruction_Zone damn that's a good one
And even if that person has all of that, the goal post shifting never ends, as they eventually reach the "holy spirit" requirement or "deception" blockade.
@@bartosz.holubowicz it's always easy to hide behind unverifiable claims and magic
Got to have that discernment, to know when words mean words and when they don't
Even if the translation said "pierced", which wouldn't make any sense at all, you still have to wonder why the entire meaning shifts from David's lament to a small snippet that is all of a sudden about Jesus.
Christians are all about context...until they're not.
That last sentence nails it (pun intended). They’re all about context - except when it’s inconvenient, or when they haven’t actually read it themselves but are just copying what someone else told them.
Yup. Even if it said what they wanted it to....it still isn't about Jesus
Oh, you mean that psalm where the guy whines about his hands and feet being all messed up? Yeah, real unique, like no one else in history ever had a bad day. And surprise, surprise, Christians claim it's all about Jesus. Because, obviously, every sad song in the Old Testament must be about him. Get over yourselves.
Based 😂
XDDD
🤭
This is the same laughing stock who Iied and said chatgpt is Iying when I pointed out how 99.8% of actual Atheist/Agnostic NT scholars affirm the Disciples and others truly believed to see Jesus risen bodily. And that their best desperate excuse is it was a mass hallucination which doesnt occur in reality, proving the Resurrection. Literally just a laughing stock who God predestined and gave over to satan for Eternal Torment. 😂
So the best argument is its a "coincidence bro", basically atheism in a nutshell. Illogical. Get ready for the eternal torment. 😂😂
You know, if I was an omnipotent god, even if I wanted my texts to be open to interpretation about what the words MEAN, I'd still make sure that they were passed along correctly, so that people would at least know what the words ARE.
Praise Doug!
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
3:14 Psalm 10.2 “In arrogance, the wicked persecute the poor. Let them be caught in the schemes they have devised.”
Reminds me of current events. Only I am not so sure about the second part happening. 😔
Great info, Justin! For me, I think the thing that truly puts the final nail in the _"Psalm 22=Jesus"_ debate is the fact that, according to John 10:18, no one could take Jesus' life from him - he had been given authority by the Father to lay his life down and to take it up again. This is the exact opposite situation of the suffering Psalmist, who is constantly worried about his physical life and is begging God to save him from his enemies. Jesus even told Peter that twelve legions of angels were at his disposal if he wanted to be saved from arrest _(Matt 26:53)_ ; the Psalmist had no such divine assurance.
Bottom line is, Jesus was in trouble by choice, while the Psalmist was not, and I think that's some of the clearist evidence why Psalm 22 cannot be about Jesus.
@Number0neSon Ive called in. It was very easy to confound justin. The majority of top atheist & agnostic NT scholars with actual PHD's, all affirm that the disciples and others truly believed to see the Risen Jesus bodily alive. The best excuse & hypothesis they can muster up is that it was a Mass Mutual Hallucination, (which doesn't occur in reality). This further proves the validity of the Resurrection. When I mentioned this to justin, the only desperate defense mechanism in which he can do, was to lie and say chatGPT is listing false names of scholars and lying, and to trust him. It simply shows how bad he knows this is for him and can't actually counter it honestly. Easy and emberassing.
I keep going back to the thought that if this god had such a powerful message that we all needed to hear, it chose a poor time to proclaim them and did nothing to preserve 'his' word.
Watching this video just jog my memory, in regards to when I was a fervent Evangelical in my late twenties . I had invested much time in studying the scripture and was pretty well acquainted with it At that point. I felt one day that I needed to be grounded in the prophecies regarding Christ. I sat down with a study Bible that had the cross references. I started to look at them one at a time and was not impressed. I couldn't have admitted it with my mouth at that time, but I did feel it in my gut that at least the ones I looked at there was little to nothing there In regards of a prophecy. I guess if apologists and the Christian faith just called it spiritual coincidence or or shadows or something that might be okay. On the contrary, however, we proclaimed it as a miraculous event that should convince all unbelievers because of the exact prophecies... When you're in the midst of it, it seems too fearful to even fully acknowledge it to yourself.
that was my experience also!
Thank you for sharing this with us! I hope you are well!
Well said, well thought-out response, I had never considered this moderated angle before. As a Christian I was taught that this was pure solid irrefutable messianic prophecy.
I kind of knew this but the way you presented it is awesome! Learned many new things.
Glad it was helpful!
Agreed, it is a post hoc rationalization and coping to say it's a prophecy when it clearly isn't. As is the whole New Testament when you think about it (because the Messiah in the Old Testament was not supposed to die, is not god, only has one coming, and is supposed to set up a physical kingdom not a spiritual one).
But again, love that you're doing more vids like this aside from the lives! Also love to see the deep dive you give and are able to offer as well into the original languages. Especially with this topic, an underrated perhaps, but very strong proof against the Bible I think, and one of many cumulative reasons I deconstructed and deconverted. I never understand when Christians say that because a text references an earlier one or is "hyperlinked" that it's therefore divine, when humans quote and reference previous things on their own all the time, without any need of anything divine to do so. It's crazy how much makes way more sense when the scales of the way you've been taught to misread and butcher the OT by Christians fall away from eyes and you can read it for what it actually says and means.
I always love to use Paulogia's criteria for determining prophecy ever since I found them and am learning to use them more:
1. Made clearly and demonstrably prior to the events predicted.
2. Intended to be a prediction.
3. A non-mundane claim.
4. Answerable only by a single, clear, verifiable occurrence.
5. Not open to interpretation.
6. Not something people are actively attempting to fulfill.
and it's cool to see your 6 points have some overlap as well, it would be cool to see you collab with him sometime (whether in a vid or a live, or maybe a Line episode one day whether in this topic or any other honestly).
Would enjoy watching you discuss the Jewish scriptures with Toviah Singer
Psalms 22 might not be a prophesy, but 18:2, 31, 46, 19:14, 28:1, 31:2-3, 42:9, 62:2, 6, 71:3, 78:35, 92:15, 94:22, 95:1, and 114:8 are all signs and prophesies for Doug.
I spent way too much time on that. Haha
Thanks for the chuckle.
Thank you for all that you do! 💜💫
Good work sir❤
This actually makes so much sense. Why would God reveal something to someone that will only develop years after the people it's been revealed to, die.
I wish I could sit and do a weekly bible study w justin. His knowledge is invaluable in comabting xtian religions.❤ thank u for what u do J!
You have helped me SO MUCH in my deconstruction. Thankfully, now my kids (5 and 2) won’t be brainwashed and traumatized with imaginations and the fear mongering religion is responsible for. Just made a year in my deconstryction this past December. I’m always watching the lives being entertained, upset at the foolishness of the callers, but also realizing how I sounded for the past 30 years, having been so deeply indoctrinated. Thanks for all you do. I definitely would like that cheat sheet you talk about. Can we just cashapp a gift for that? Discord sounds cool too because I have SO MANY theological and historical questions. Thanks for everything!
Matt
Wow. Love that you include contemporaneous sources to demonstrate the culture of the time.
Thank you so much for this in depth debunking of this prophecy! I hope you plan to do more! You are educating all of us in a digestable way. Thanks again!
The way the NT just rips non-prophetic Hebrew Scriptures out of context and asserts, “these 2.5 verses are definitely about Jesus!” is so clearly the product of years of reflection after the life of Jesus, where the gospel writers combed the Hebrew bible looking for anything they could apply to some detail in Jesus’ life. Meanwhile, when it comes to unambiguous messianic prophecies, that make concrete predictions about the future, it’s all, “Well, Jesus fulfilled that in a spiritual sense”, or “Jesus WILL fulfill that when he comes back!”
In other words, there’s just no there there.
Keep up the good work, haters are showing up on the live shows, so your hitting them on all cylinders!! PD!
I wish I could subscribe to this channel 1000 times. You are doing an important and noble service for humanity.
*Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance*- George Bernard Shaw
I don't think Christians are lying when they say this is about Jesus. I don't think they intentionally deceive people. I think they honestly think this is about Jesus.
Actually they do as they get it from earlier Christians. It’s still a lie even if told unintentionally
Hello there! ✌️😎🍪
Hello there!
Toooo straightforward, "real christians" are going to claim "You just don't get it !!!"
The hard of thinking are what keeps humanity fighting wars.
Very interesting and informative. Thanks for taking the time.
Very good presentation! I watched your and Derek’s livestream the other night on MythVision, so this is like a nice follow-up to that.
the translations of the Bible are like playing telephone....what comes out in the end rarely matches what went in at the beginning, especially when changing from one language to another language.
Typical theist response: "....well, ok but that still doesn't prove that God isn't real so...yeah."
i mean they wouldnt be wrong
@Soapy-chan It wasn't meant to. That's the point.
@ im confused
@@Soapy-chan I'll help you out...let me explain. Most theists always find themselves misunderstanding the scope. So, for example, when an atheist points out a contradiction or inconsistency in the Bible, they are often engaging in critical analysis of the text. The point is to demonstrate that the Bible is not internally coherent, which may undermine claims that it is divinely inspired or infallible. However, a lot of theists interpret this as an attack on the existence of God itself. This stems from a conflation of the Bible’s validity with the truth of God’s existence.
For many theists, the Bible is seen as the ultimate authority and foundation of their faith. Therefore, pointing out a contradiction in the Bible feels like an existential threat to their belief system, even if that wasn’t the atheist’s explicit point. This leads them to respond defensively, addressing what they perceive as the "bigger picture" (the existence of God or the truth of the Bible) rather than the specific contradiction being raised. Plus, a lot of them are embarrassed that they were proven wrong and refuse to acknowledge it even when they've clearly been cornered. Make sense?
It would only show their God and religion are false cuz they hinge on Jesus being the messiah.
*Brilliant job DZ. I'm also very happy that you discuss the English translation of the Tanakh by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS) as the one that is perhaps most faithful to the letter and spirit of the original Hebrew. It would be an interesting academic project to compare line-by-line the JPS translation with other English translations of the Hebrew bible which duplicitously distort the original Hebrew text to 'Christianize' it. Has anyone done this kind of analysis to expose the ruse?*
Really enjoyed this video. Looking forward to more of these long form videos
They lied to them about EVERYTHING!
Master class. Thank you!
You are awesome 👏
I always thought that the dogs pierced his hands and feet by biting them. I thought he was talking about the dogs.
But, but, but… without divine intervention, how could the authors of the Jesus narrative write a story that so closely matched the pre-existing psalm unless god sneakily smuggled prophecy into a first-person, present-tense, story about David? There’s just no possible way to account for the similarities without magic… erm, I mean god.
27:11: Where did Josephus get the info about Moses and the Amalekites? I've heard scholars say that Moses is a myth, and there is no evidence for him.
The Targum Psalm 22 verse reads ‘כאריא’, ‘like the lion’, so the same as the Masoretic text.
Justin im an Jehovah Witness who am totally confused about 587/607 when Jerusalem's destruction by the babylonians and 1914. Can you do a video on the subject. I like your videos
Christians love the greek septuagint, of course only when it suits them. Look at the Wes Huff thing with the masoretic text being so accurate. Because of the older version of the Septuagint Christianity use to accuse Jewish people of changing the text but that was proven wrong with the dead sea scrolls and we all know from Wes how accurate the masoratic texts are not so with the Septuagint however.
Like this. More like it please 😊
In the works friend
Cleverness is like a lens with a very sharp focus. Wisdom is more like a wide-angle lens.
Edward de Bono
Like a lion (that pierces their prey) so they have pierced my hands and my feet.
It is possible that the original Hebrew word was “כארו” (digging) and some Masoretes corrupted the text. However, “like a lion” is not a completely out-of-context reading. The Psalm uses an animal motif to refer to the perpetrators, referring to them as bulls (verse 12), dogs (verses 16, 20), unicorns (verse 21) and even lions elsewhere (verses 13, 21). In light of this, ardent supporters of “כארי” (like a lion) may never be convinced otherwise. The translation, “they pierced”, however, can be justified even if “כארי” (like a lion) were the original reading.
Jewish scholars recognize that some liberties with the syntax and grammar must be taken to make the text of Psalm 22:16 make sense. There is no subject and verb in “like a lion my hands and my feet.” Most scholars agree that the implied subject is “they”, which refers to the “assembly of the wicked”.
It is not right to charge the KJV of erroneously supplying “they” and a verb on the basis of “כארי” because Jewish translations do the same. The only basis for any criticism is the choice of the verb as “pierced” and the absence of the English equivalent of the words, “like a lion”.
“Pierced”
The irregular use of “כארי” suggests that an idiom or figurative meaning is signified. With respect to why the verb should be “pierced,” one possible reason is that a lion’s bite results in piercing the prey with the fangs. Hebrew scholar Allen P. Ross, author of Introducing Biblical Hebrew and Grammar, says regarding Psalm 22:16, “The image in the psalmist’s mind was probably of dogs nipping at the hands and feet and puncturing them.” (Allen P. Ross, A Commentary on the Psalms, Vol. 1(1-41) (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications), p. 524). Even the Aramaic Targum identifies the implied verb as “bite” so the logical extension may be “pierce”. Numbers 23:24 further supports this interpretation that a lion’s attack results in one being pierced. It says:
KJV: “Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eats of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.”
Hebrew: “הן־עם כלביא יקום וכארי יתנשׂא לא ישׁכב עד־יאכל טרף ודם־חללים ישׁתה׃”
YLT: “Lo, the people as a lioness riseth, And as a lion he lifteth himself up, He lieth not down till he eateth prey, And blood of pierced ones doth drink.'”
The word that is translated “the slain” in the KJV is the Hebrew word “חללים” which means, “slain, fatally wounded, pierced” (Brown-Driver-Briggs). Young’s Literal Translation has preferred to translate “חללים” as “pierced ones” at Numbers 23:24. Several translations render חלל in its verb form as “pierced” in Isaiah 53:5, which is another Messianic prophecy:
NIV: “But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.”
NLT: “But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.”
ESV (2011): “But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.”
NASB: “But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.”
Going back to Numbers 23:24, the imagery is one of a lion piercing and eating its prey. Thus, there is biblical precedent for interpreting being “like a lion” as to “pierce” a victim. “Pierced” is as good an interpretation of the verb as anything else that has been suggested. Interestingly, the length and shape of the fangs of a lion may closely resemble the nails of crucifixion.
“Like a lion” piercing its prey with fangs?
i find it fascinating how much theists lie (obviously not everyone, I'm generalizing) in defense of "the truth"
Faith, at its core, is beLIEving.
One of your best.
Who ever said this is a prophecy is really twisting it. we want to know if a God exist not just through a Faith that failed it self.
Justin, please stop doing those other videos so much of callers wasting so much time, talking about the same 4-5 points in the Bible, badgering them until they answer the way you want them too, which is the obvious correct answer to the way you phrase the questions.
I know they made your channel successful but they are getting boring and so time wasted where we aren’t going to keep listening.
Do more educational videos just like this on controversial subjects, that help us to learn how to combat or argue apologist when they bring these points up.
This video was great, so please do more just like this.
Bonus: do any debate videos like with Wes or others, and then also do other videos with other biblical scholars or TH-cam successes like Alex O’Connor, Dan McClellan, Bart Ehrman, etc.
if you need any of their cell numbers let me know.
Great job, and I appreciate your teaching.
Working on it friend!
@@Deconstruction_Zone
Not sure of the guy in TESTIFY vids but would love to see you deconstruct his arguments. He's another apologist but appears to use some novel arguments....an apologist using a novel argument? 🤔
Is that even possible?😅
Both styles have their place. This well structured lecture video targets serious learners, & gives a lot of info quickly. But the to-and-fro of Justin's debates is entertainingly educational, with opposing views put under challenge, and brilliantly shows how to hold people's feet to the fire.
@ yes you are correct, I have enjoyed them until recently. The same topics keep getting brought up and it seems very rarely do we see an educated person on the other end, then if that person is even allowed to properly speak at times, or just mumbles along and next thing you know, a full 5-8 mins has gone by until Justin finally gets the obvious answer he was asking for the whole time so the call can move along.
So these educational videos right to the point teaching is far more efficient and will keep his target audience longer.
Does hebrew have a future tense in the sense indo european languages have?
btw in Mark Jesus does not recite the Psalm. You would not recite a Psalm in reversed order, right?
In Mark Jesus is a conn artist, a deceptive liar and hypocrit. You would expect that he gets a redemption arc at least in the end. Instead you get a joke about Eli Eli lama sabachthani, and it is the bystander who has to remind Jesus about John/Elijah or rather something Jesus should repent, namely his hand in the demise of John.
So the question is: is Psalm 22 used to mock Jesus further, or is it a glimpse at a Jesus who finally get's it?
For me that is too thin to state that Jesus repents at the cross. Jesus dies as a unredeemed moron and warning sign.
Regardless it’s all about their experiences
As well as ♈ Aries Katie Montgomery as well as a disproportionately large number of ♈ Aries Atheists I've met personally.😊
Howdy
So your contention is that David was at some point bound, or had his hands pierced by his enemies, somehow placed in public display for his enemies to stare at him, stripped naked while they gamble on who gets to keep his clothing... can you explain when in David's life this happened? I'm going to call you plastic man, because damn, can you stretch. 'stock imagery', lol. I pity anyone who falls for this BS.
Psalm 22 alludes to son of David Absalom's rebellion, which is a major source for the gospels, especially the character Judas and the passion.
This is not Mark trying to fit a 'prophecy' onto a real Jesus of Nazareth.
This is Mark using Judean literature to create Jesus of Nazareth whole cloth.
Most 'prophecies' of the gospels make perfect sense if the reader simply realizes the author is pointing to the text he is quoting, and usually in the gospels is meant to point to the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred before ANY GOSPEL WAS WRITTEN.
psalm 22, the beginning of the revolt/ absalom is surrounded by soldiers, hung in a tree, pierced by a spear, psalm 23 the kidron valley is the valley of death, psalm 24 victory, reestablishing the throne, rising in the case of Jesus
Your Bio says Ex-pastor.. so did you preach in the pulpit and what kind of preacher were you
They Doug.
That god is just a very poor communicator.
*Jesus is clearly speaking to the disciples and gives a timeframe for when the Son of Man would come.*
*"Jesus sent these twelve out,* charging them, saying: Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not go into a Samaritan city. *But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.* And going on, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven has drawn near" (Matthew 10:5-7)
“Truly I say to you, ***you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes”*** (Matthew 10:23);
For the *Son of man* shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.***
Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the *Son of Man* coming in his kingdom (Matthew 16:27-28)
Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here*** will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27)
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Mark 13:30)
*He says that the coming of the Son of Man will be accompanied by:*
The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Then will appear the sign of the *Son of Man* in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the *Son of Man* coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Matthew 24:29-34)
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the *Son of Man* coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. When you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Luke 21:25-32)
He also falsely prophesied to the high priest, the Sanhedrin and Nathaniel.
*Jesus falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin*
Jesus also falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin (assemblies of either twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal)
You will see the *Son of Man* sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and ***coming on the clouds of heaven*** (Matthew 26:64) (Mark 14:62)
Except the high priest and the Sanhedrin never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand side of God, or coming on the clouds of heaven, or any such thing.
*Jesus falsely prophesied to Nathaniel*
Jesus also falsely prophesied to Nathaniel when he declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”
Jesus said, You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that. He then added, ***“Very truly I tell you, you will see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man*** (John 1:50-51)
*Nathaniel never saw any such thing. Neither did anyone else.*
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also look up:
Watch *Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Historical Lecture - Bart D. Ehrman*
*"End Times - Evil Bible .com"*
*"The End of All Things is At Hand - The Church Of Truth"*
*"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"*
*"Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists"*
(Tim O'Neill is a former Christian and is familiar with most of the Biblical scholarship. He's been studying the scholarship and history for decades)
*"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return - Black Nonbelievers, Inc."*
Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity.
*“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress
*"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53
*"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
*"Did Jesus Fulfill Prophecy? | Westar Institute"*
*"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"What Do the Apostles’ Deaths Prove? Guest Post by Kyle Smith. - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
All Hail Gandalf the White!
Psalms is David talking and Christian made it about Jesus when if this is the case then Jesus sins and get crucified according to Jewish theology as well as Christian theology as well
In Psalms chapter 10 David must have been referring to himself. Kinda like a preacher, preaching on immorality. Those preachers are usually exposing them selves 😂
Your close family/area you are born in is mostly what determines the religion you choose to believe. You wont find jews in Afghanistan for instance. There are many different gods, some with heaven/hell and others without. There are also many religions that dont even have a god. The chance that one of them is real and you happened to choose the real one is minimal. Without religion civilisation would have never developed as quickly because people wouldnt feel as united/scared to be punished in afterlife and having meaning to life. Religion is a good thing, dont get me wrong, but i dont think a god exists.
I like let no thing botter your mind is spammed if believe its possible to effect ya which has flesh filled with time times to do all vanities nightmares sweet gets sour.
I am a believer a wannabe Christian. Not good enough to be called a Christian No schooling in the text only a reader . You say if or could be may of been probably didn't a lot You are definitely not sure of what you're preaching. Yes there are different Bibles saying different things and things left out of some. I believe they have some copyright thing that you're not allowed to copy and sell others so you have to add or change. It's funny how you believe some scripture over others to disprove. I use the KJ which I believe is closest to the original writings. There are words that were used back then that we do not use as well as words we use now they didn't use back then. and over time a lot of words have changed meanings such as awful and terrible. So it's very hard to get the writings exact in English .There over 300 fulfillment from the old testament of Jesus. They have the original copy of Isiah which talks of his coming. I believe all the writings were written many years before his coming . Not all people are written in the book of life. Some no matter how much you see you will still not see.
Just the death in resurrection of Jesus proves there's a higher power. And he is the Son of God And there are more writings of it than any other history in time. You probably don't believe in the flood not enough evidence there. Even if the whole earth was covered in soot only caused by water. In Genesis he tells us how it was made and there's no other way it can come to be. The universe made itself or something made it. Nothing cannot make anything all the laws of physics prove that. You have to be outside of time space and matter. Which is the trinity time past present future space height width length and matter solid liquid and gas. Our GOD is outside of all and above all.
Maybe if I could get a hold of Wes Huff you wouldn't mind having a discussion with him. He is a lot more knowledgeable then I.
Thank you for your time
GOD Bless
JESUS is Real
JESUS LOVES YOU
I say "if" when thing are unclear because we don't have evidence. But the biblical god is not an "of". That thing does not exist.
@Deconstruction_Zone so if you don't have evidence on either side then you just lean to one side. If you go by the King James all the way. There are a lot less discrepancies. Some are reader error and some not understood. If you get rid of all religion and just face the facts we were made or we made ourselves I'm going to go with science. Everything we know has a maker. Even a toothpick you can have a thousand tornadoes go through the forest and not make one single toothpick to exact shape and size. You get nothing from chaos something that has order created. So then what is the explanation.well it's very well explained in the King James. No other religion gives explanation for existence. And no other figure was resurrected from the dead seen by over 400
More proof of how ridiculous this Jew Cult "prophecy" claim is. *Isaiah 7:14 -Therefore the Lord (YAHWEH) himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Matthew 1:23: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, "God (YAHWEH) with us").* What the Flock? Everybody is supposedly calling him Jeebus , uhhh, Jesus. Jesus doesn't mean Immanuel. Notice that Matthew 1:23 is just a direct copy of Isaiah 7:14. That is "prophecy"?
Deuteronomy 18 contradicts Jeremiah 18 7-10, which states that (at least some) prophecies are conditional. So if Ezekiel 29-32 and Jeremiah 46, both of which state that Egypt will be completely exiled by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC. This didn't happen... so one could say (without evidence of course) that the Egyptians repented, and therefore God didn't go through with the threat. If so, these prophecies would be impossible to verify.
Conditional prophecies are still clearly prophecies with testable claims.
The liars are those who tells that Christ did not know about the future atrocities that would be commited by His future churches,That He did not know about the fruitless trees planted in his name,that He did not know the total mess they would be.He knew that people would hate his représentants and himself.
OLD NEWS
@@pascalbedard4191
The superpowered demi-god *_"Jesus the Christ of Nazareth"_* as depicted in the Buy-Bull is an evidently nonexistent fictional character🤣🤣
Dude this makes no sense to you unless you have the holly spirit. No this isn’t gaslighting
Yea, it's gaslighting.
I was going to write something like this but my comment was going to be sarcastic. I was going to be making fun of the people who say you need holy spirit (decoder rings) to help them make the text say what they want it to say.
Bro's coping, you don't need an imaginary Spirit to understand Myth
@@Jo-JoandTaffy I was being sarcastic
@@Solom0n2 did you not get the sarcasm?
Tell me you lack understanding in Christian prophecy without telling me you lack understanding Christian prophecy. Litteraly since the beginning of Christian history these have been understood as typology, as a fulfillment of the Old Testament, not as a fulfillment of messianic prophecy
Tell us you add things to the text of the Bible or ignore other things to suit your agenda without telling us😂
These two sentences don't make any rational sense. The so-called prophecies are being extracted from the old testes-ment which is supposed to be the source of "messianic prophecy". Sounds like more Apologetics babbling.
Psalm 22 is about the suffering of Christ on the cross ….
“My god my god why have you forsaken me “
😂😂😂dude is laying dumb
The problem with a lot of fundy Christians is that even tho DZ sets out his list of “this is a prophecy and this isn’t” the fundy Christian will still believe “the Bible is the infallible word of god.” I support what you’re doing DZ but trying to logic-in your clear and sufficient standards to reach people who didn’t use logic, reason, nor critical thought to arrive at “the Bible is the infallible word” might mean that attacking the biblical text is less effective than going for the more feely, empathetic arguments again Yahweh
From your rules to comment I can tel you are a control freak. You don’t get to make arbitrary rules to classify parts of the Bible by certain genres, and jeez wiz if they are not in your pre approved prophecy genre then they are off limits to be a prophecy. Who are you that you get to decide how & when God plants a foreshadowing or prophecy? I already knew, you know it all, and that I am wrong, and shouldn’t bother you because one of your arbitrary rules is for commenting is no preaching. Have fun in your safe space, of leading people who love darkness because their deeds are evil, away from eternal life in perfect earth. Congrats. By the way like a lion, still would be close to piercing hands & feet. Lion’s mouth have teeth, teeth can pierce hands and feet. But you arbitrary rules again. I’m sure you have a rule that that’s too many steps away from how you demand god gives a prophecy, that it has to be precisely like a cook book for idiots, so you can follow along.
I don't have comment rules, TH-cam sets them. Maybe you're just a vile human the needs filtered from society.
@ sick burn
@@Deconstruction_Zone sick burn. More evidence you are a control freak. When I go to type a comment, a pop for “guidelines for you channel comes up.” Thus rules to comment. But my bad I didn’t use the exact words your control freakness wanted. My apologies. This little exchange of you not knowing or deliberately lying about not knowing what I meant about commenting rules, when you put in guidelines for your channel, shows you shouldn’t be trusted with decoding language especially prophecy.