My CarbonStar 150 Newt has a (small) flare issue and I need your help!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
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To be fair, the flare issue isn't a big deal to me, it's just something I'm wondering about!
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Further Notes!
The mirror mask is painted with Musou Black Paint
A lens hood with the inside painted with Musou Black Paint didn't do anything
The coma corrector doesn't intrude in the light path (it is below the baffles)
Some Patreon supporters noted that ZWO cameras have screws near the sensor that could reflect light, I'll try painting them black and/or swapping the camera!
Patreon Supporters also suggested painting the side of the coma corrector that has threads with Musou black paint, I'll try that!
It's not the OAG/guider prism, since there is none! I'm using the ZWO ASI2600MC Duo!
Other suggestions welcome!
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To be fair, the flare issue isn't a big deal to me, it's just something I'm wondering about!
Further Notes based on my Patreon Members feedback (since they B5+ had access to the video early and without adds)
- The mirror mask is painted with Musou Black Paint
- A lens hood with the inside painted with Musou Black Paint didn't do anything
- The coma corrector doesn't intrude in the light path (it is below the baffles when at best focus)
- Some Patreon supporters noted that ZWO cameras have screws near the sensor that could reflect light, I'll try painting them black and/or swapping the camera!
- Patreon Supporters also suggested painting the side of the coma corrector that has threads with Musou black paint, I'll try that!
- Other suggestions welcome!
Primary Mirror Mask: www.thingiverse.com/thing:6610187
Musou Black Paint: amzn.to/3Xtordw
Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01
Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG
High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R
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check to see if the edges of the secondary mirror are flat and not bevelled
Not just caused by reflections, can be caused by impeded light path - for example the focuser sticking out into light path. But what you are seeing (flare outward towards the edge of image) just looks like not perfectly corrected coma.
Did you ever figure this out?
Hey Cuiv! :) I think next step should be making some test images with NO coma corrector, sure you'll have horrible stars at the edges but if you don't see the flares and only ablong star shapes, it should point to the coma corrector. Cheers
Agree with this, remove everything, then add back until the flares are visible again.
This what I also thouhght of. And maybe test it wiht another cam, yo have two of the same kind, so maybe swap them? Good luck!
Those are excellent ideas, I will try that - seems the CC is on everyone's minds!
This was my thought as well. Could be a defect in the coma corrector. Either that, or some funky nonuniform deformation in the main mirror
I had a similar issue on my 14" TS-ONTC in combination with a paracorr 3". There were two factors that contributed to the effect.
1.) I had a bad custom adapter: the coma corrector was placed slightly tilted and off centre through this adapter.
2.) the mechanical and optical axis were badly misaligned. I had to tilt the whole focuser (featherthouch) to align the two.
One symptom of this would be, if you need to adjust the secondary, so that the distance of the backplate of the secondary mirror is not evenly spaced to the secondary mirror holder in order to get good collimation.
In essence, both effects had placed my coma corrector at an angle, not perpendicular to the light coming from the secondary.
After correcting both errors the flares were gone.
I was thinking about buying a CarbonStar and ran across this video. I will wait to buy until I see a resolution to the problem here.
I had a nearly identical issue with a RASA8. It turned out to be related to turned down mirror edge on the primary. I was able to solve it with an aperture mask
(I masked down the primary with different diameter masks until it went away, and I literally did that drawing circles on construction paper with a drawing compass and cutting them out).
given the orientation of the flares (always pointing towards the outer edge of the FOV) my best guess would be the backfocus distance. You can check backfocus distance using the hocus focus plugin in NINA, also check for field tilt on ASTAP. Fast scopes are very sensible to backfocus distance and if you dont get it right you might end up with these kind of issues
Can check that for sure, but that would be a first for me - I've been very loose with backfocus on the other Newt, and I haven't seen that issue there - but I'll check!
I agree it looks like the pattern you can get with the camera too close to a field flattener. Consider adding a millimeter between the comma corrector and camera and see if this improves.
I had the same problem with my GSO 6" F5. I solved it by changing the entire secondary mirror for another one with a slightly larger diameter.
Very interesting!! Were the GSO secondary mirror edges painted black?
What size mirror did your swap it out for? I have the same scope and am very interested as I am having the same issues as Cuiv. I have a primary and secondary mirror mask, flocking, and painted the edges of the secondary and I still get very small spikes like Cuiv. I remember reading on CN that the secondary might be the cause because it is slightly undersized.
@@user-pi5xu7qs7n 54mm. The original size was 52mm.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek no, they are not painted
I watched a video the other day and a guy had the same issue. He pointed to a small shiny strip of metal attached to the focuser inside the tube. He solved it with a piece of black tape and covered the length and the end of it. He said it cured the flare problem. He was also able to reach it with a pair of tweezers and install the tape.
I have a photo pointing to it which i will send to you via facebook.
That's awesome!!! I'll have a look!
My first thought was focuser protruding into the OTA. The flaring would be more pronounced always on the same side relative to the sky. But I would be looking at your OAG. Try taking it out of the train and do some test shots and see what happens. Also if you can rotate the OAG to your camera and see if the flaring rotates. Blackening the secondary will help but i don't think thats a problem.
One thing i did notice on my newt a while ago, had some strange fine diffraction spikes. Turned out a spider had laid some lovely silken threads inside the scope. A swirl with a soft brush and al, fixed.
Thanks for the tip! The focuser isn't protruding and I'm not using an OAG (using the 2600MC Duo), but I'll check spider webs too :)
Flaring could be due to the beveled edge of the secondary mirror. A secondary mirror mask might help determine if this is the case.
It's also worth noting that any polygonality along the inner edge of the primary mirror mask can cause stars to bloom. Each flat edge of the polygon will be the source of a diffraction spike. With enough edges (a couple dozen), the result is more of a bloom than a recognizable diffraction spike pattern.
I would take out the primary mirror and do a simple knife edge test to check the figure on it. It might have a very slight astigmatism. A zone mask would be best to reveal if there is a specific zone on the mirror being affected, and might be able to be masked if that is the case. A very technical suggestion, but one that would clearly eliminate the potential of your primary being the source for the flares.
I'll check the coma corrector first since it's an easier (and potentially likelier) suspect!
From Highpoint Scientific (Aug 6 2024) : "On the most recent batch of CarbonStar Newtonians that Apertura has sent us, there have been three main improvements to the scope. These upgrades include a larger locking screw on the focuser, and a primary mirror cell that has been modified to make the optics less sensitive to there being too much pressure on the primary mirror, pressure which may cause odd star shapes in your final images. There has also been a change to the rear light cover and they are now redesigned and made from injection molded plastic which fit better and will last longer."
It's awesome they're making enhancements, and I heard they're also sending stuff to existing customers!
My newt does this, but not every time. I found that the mirror can shift/tilt as you slew to your targets, the telescope is now leaning on a different side than when you collimated. The focuser tilt can also exaggerate this or completely eliminate it as it settles into a position.
Your mask reduced it simply because you reduced your light gathering.
I can recommend while you have it collimated with a laser, move scope around to see if the mirror tilts around, or simulate camera weight on the laser and see if it tilts
Thanks for the info! I’ll try that before imaging tonight.
@@aaronwilliams3949 good luck with it. I’ve really leaned into this being the culprit since the flare isn’t always on the same side, and even doesn’t happen at all. I did lagoon recently, and having it point south and only at a 20 degree angle, completely eliminated the flare that I had earlier that night when pointing the opposite direction
I had a similar issue and was astonished when I discovered what the problem was. Pretty much I am always laser collimated before any session, often I also test for focuser tilt so that left me even more baffled of what the heck was going on. My primary mirror was not screwed tight and was running around during the night, most noticeable after the meridian flip. My stars looked similar to yours but way worse.
Cuiv, my train of thought to is that it's possibly a coma corrector issue. Definitely something in the imaging train. Also, double check the the prism in the OAG hasn't drifted slightly into the camera sensor path.
Thanks John! No OAG (ASI Duo) so that's not it, but CC seems a likely culprit!
I would swap out the image train (comma corrector, filters, camera, etc.,) from the Quattro and put it into the CarbonStar. That would eliminate a lot of possibilities very quickly and help you to isolate the problem. (And yes, you absolutely should blacken the spider veins).
Good idea! The spider veins are blackened on the inside, which I think should be enough for now
I agree , I would be looking at the coma corrector, back spacing !
Thanks!
I might have found a solution. I collimated my CarbonStar with the scope almost vertical then checked it that night after I moved it outside. After that I focused on Vega then moved to my target and focused again because I noticed that my focus was slightly off after slewing. My stars did not have flares. It kind of makes sense, when I tune my guitar, I do it in the playing position not while it’s on the counter lying flat. Any movement and the collimation and or focus can shift. I have my primary mirror slightly loose to mitigate the pinched optics it had upon arrival. I also installed your mirror mask which makes it a little harder to judge the mirror clip tightness so they are fairly loose.
I had similar effect on my 200mm reflector, I ended up painting the backs and sides of the mirrors to reduce more light leak and light pollution getting thru the mirrors causing flares, from the looks of it if you painted the mirrors and it disapeared then I would say it is a faulty mirror with imperfections in it. Face the secondary down on some soft clean flocking and paint it that way, then let it dry before lifting off the clean flocking
Check if your coma corrector is protruding inside the optical path when you are in focus.
I used to screw on filters on the bottom of coma corrector and they were protruding inside light path which caused weird looking artifacts on bright stars
The CC isn't protruding, but could still be the root cause!
Check your secondary mirror. It is possible to have something in the edge.
Cuiv, Check to make sure the front of the rail on the focuser and the front edge of the drawtube are not super shiny and reflective. If it is, hit it with some flat black, antireflective paint. I had the same flare with a Quattro 200 and that was the culprit.
Good Luck and you do a great job.
Joe D
Like someone else said in the comments, I would suggest taking some images without the coma corrector in place. Since the flares change depending on the location in the image, it could be reflections coming from a poorly coated or baffled coma corrector.
Yep, seems the CC is a prime suspect, thanks Dave!
Like other comments, maybe swap out the corrector with another if you have it and compare both against having none. That will eliminate the corrector as a problem.
Check your back focus, maybe the camera chip is not in the sweet spot. It looks like a slight spherical correction is needed to get a truly flat field.
I also would blacken the secondary and primary. Why the primary? Because coatings always leak a little light and I like to cover all bases.
You showed the update about the hood, which I would keep just because of the light pollution in Tokyo.
You can only test 1 change at a time if you really want to know which thing solves it. Lot of time but... Oh well...That's why we keep throwing wrenches in the machinery, isn't it?
Print a mask (a circle) with a diameter that obscures a bit more than the secondary mirror, put it in front and check
That's a great idea! I'll try that, very easy to put in place!
I second that❤
Use aperture mask to test edges . I had similar issue in my scope , i blocked edges of scope with different sized aperture masks and then finally 3d printed one that eliminated issue . In sct corrector plate ring is not smooth in my case , it might be different case in your scope .
Great idea! I'll look into that!
Really intriguing! I also have a flare (pointing inwards) on bright stars on my RC8 and I am pretty sure this is not collimation. This is not helping you but it makes me happy I am not the only one out there !!
I'd use a lit small white light LED and move it around in front of the spider while running your camera in video mode, and see if you can localise where the reflection/flare is coming from.
Good idea!
I guess it may come from secondary miror ... Can you try with the one from your Skywatcher, do see if it make the difference?
Hi Cuiv, sort of the same problem here with the GSO200/800 and Baader coma corrector. It was bad, but almost gone now. (Because of 56mm backfocus instead of 55mm.)
First I noticed I miscalculated the backfocus and was a few mm's off. Secondly I found the secondary mirror off a touch by axial rotation, which solved almost everything. If however the scope is on the other side after the meridian flip, it's a bit more prominent again. Some Tilt I guess?
Hope this helps. Clear skies!
Hi Cuiv, I've had a similar issue for years but with my old
C100ed R, the spacer between the lenses has an air space spacer with three tabs that stick out into the light path, so annoying as three wierd shafts of shadow come out of brighter stars on my pics, no idea why celestron had let this go, although at 900mm it's not an ideal or fast imaging scope, but I still like it.. I've been toying with removing the cell as there are wipe marks visible with led white light between the lens which have been there after assembly at Celestron!! , so ime getting courage over some years😂 to either cut tabs down on spacing ring or add a thin ring mask on outer lens to cover them. It all means removing separating cleaning, and re mounting accurately etc, whilst maintaining collimation.. I may just leave it, leave it or break it tends to happen in my case... 😁 Atb Tom..
I would take images with a rotated coma corrector to discard it as the culprit. Can you reinstall the M1 cell rotated and test?
I actually switched the coma corrector and still saw the issue so probably something with the main optics!
Quiv, in my experience the secondary mirror may not be in the correct position. Meaning the direction “in”, or “away” from the primary mirror. The position may be off center slightly.
Thanks for the tip! Using the OCAL, I can confirm it's well centered but someone else suggested adding a secondary mask, so that could be it. The main suspect seems to be the CC though
Because the flares show up all around the center perimiter, it does seem that the field is not flattened. As you said the mask will remove any issues with the mirror clips. Also I think if you have round stars anywhere on the image, but oblong stars in the center, that is not a tracking issue but an optics issue. Have you performed anything like a focault test? I'm sure as you know, the shorter the focal length, the more perfect optics have to be. That said, collimation may help because it looked like the spikes to the right were worse than the spikes to the left. But still I wouldn't think you would have those erroneous spikes anyway leading to question the quality of the optics.
I now have better collimation, so the stars in the center are nice and round (and even to the edges) - rather than the mirrors, I suspect the CC ..
Try also to floke the focuser tube and at the same time use a dew shield. Your light polluted skies are a source of light coming from everywhere. If that does not work, I think you have a bad mirror set. Hope this helps
Good idea, will actually try flocking focuser tube and the inside threads of the CC!
I have the same telescope. At first, the images were like yours, a flare at bright stars. After re-collimation, most importantly, secondary mirror height (downward for several turns), the flares were disappear. I uses OCAL for collimation.
That's great to hear! The secondary looks well centered, but I'll have another look!
first light as im typin and im getting these flares. the vingetting is only on the bottom so i suspect height isnt correct
Was this what was eventually fixed with a mirror clip cover?
I'm pretty sure it's the focus tube that sticks a little into the light path. it looks like this when you look down the telescope. look through the focus tube and see if you can see a bump on the main mirror when you are not perfectly centric. Even if you don't think it is this, take a look. Look for something that is asymmetrical.
Thanks David! Unfortunately that's not the case - it's fully behind the baffles in the tube!
I would test the optics. How well corrected is the parabolic mirror? How flat is the elliptical diagonal? A star test with a ronchi eyepiece will show if there's an overall correction problem as well as collimation and atmospheric turbulence. FLO carries Gerd Neumann ronchi eyepieces.
Cuiv I feel your pain. I’m desperate to try my 10” Quattro on my WD-20. I’ve never tried a little planetary camera with the Quattro and the coma corrector and it’s give all kids of weird results but 30-60mins before clouds roll in doesn’t give much time to,troubleshoot.
Hope you get it figured out!!
Hey Cuiv! I would also tend to swap the image trains as a first step of analysis. It is quickest way to find out if the tube plus CC are causing trouble or the imaging train. If the issue is still there you should remove the CC from the Carbon Star and check again to find the device that is causing this strange behaviour. The frames from the Quattro you should also inspect after switching cameras. to see if there is something additional with the imaging train.
You are lucky that you have build your Frankenscope. A dual setup is the easiest way to test two telescopes with two imaging trains.
What you could test offline when clouds are around is if the focuser tube sits in the housing really stiff and does not have any play. Maybe you should inspect a few subs throughout the whole night if all flares are present the whole night or if they just get visible at certain pointing direction of the scope.
Please also inspect the camera if there is maybe a loose particle of dust under the IVIR glass.
My main candidate to cause the issue is also the coma corrector.
Since the flare brightness goes in the *opposite* direction of coma, could it be an issue with coma corrector spacing in the optical train? Perhaps try a different coma corrector....
It is interesting that the two "cheap-affordable" newtonians, seems to have issues with imaging. Is there some bending along the length of the telescope tubes??
I have this on my 6" Newt and it's related to your coma corrector and collimation. You could try to make the collimation better, but there is a good chance that it will not going to be fixed perfectly, if at all. It might be the curse of an F4 scope and short focal length and using an APS-C size sensor. It might be the secondary mirror being too small or the coma corrector can't correct for the sensor size, I don't know. Most fast Newtonians struggle with anything bigger than a 4/3rd size sensor.
Thanks! Collimation is fine now, but agree the CC is likely culprit
Hi cuiv! i saw someone on TH-cam covering the part of the monorail of the focuser that is inside the telescope. could this be it?
I tried! It wasn't it!
Does it seem like there is a soap solution left after washing the solution off the mirror? I encountered a similar problem on the Quattro 800/200, the solution to which was to light-proof the focuser tube.
Thanks for the tip! The mirrors look clean, but you're right the focuser tube and shiny CC threads could be the issue!
Interesting! I'm still waiting for clear nights to test mine but I'll watch out for this and report back. I do have a different camera (Player One 533M) and different coma corrector (Skywatcher quattro).
Trying to paint the secondary outside edge might be a good test but if the paint is washed away by water, dew might make a mess there. Last thing you'd want is that paint dripping down on the primary :)
Eeek, good point on the dew...
Something I've not seen suggested yet, could it be something to do with the baffles? Maybe there's a slight defect/dent on the edge of one of them.
Is it possible that light is reflecting off the sensors, then off something else and then back again? With the Duo, this could cause uneven flaring since there will be more reflection on one side.
Have a close look at the coma corrector, maybe there's a defect or a bit of hair stuck inside it somewhere.
I know all these are unlikely; I'm just throwing out ideas in the hope that one of them is useful.
Thanks for the ideas! The baffles seem unlikely, but the other stuff are an idea... Swapping the imaging train from the Quattro is a good idea :)
since the flares are behaving like in the case of wrong back focus (going outwards) - maybe you should check the reducer/corrector ...
Thanks, seems to be the main suspect indeed!
Have you tried imaging without the comma corrector? And another idea might be to flock the inside of the OTA. I’ve done my Sky Watcher SkyMax180 and it made a massive difference to contrast in its images.
The inside of the OTA is already well painted and baffled, but the outside threads of the CC aren't, so I'm suspecting this!
I would also first suggest trying it without the coma corrector and with a different coma corrector. Another thought is that the secondary mirror surface figure is good in the center but worse around the edges. If it is a bit undersized for the camera you're using, this could cause issues at the edges of the field but not the center. Looks to me like diffraction/scattering rather than a stray light issue.
Good points, the CC will be the first test, but the secondary seems a likely second suspect:)
Hello. I have the same scope with the same problem. I'm going to try to paint the spider veins today and try it, If that doesn't work I'll try Adjusting back focus.
Thank you so much for all your videos. They helped me out tremendously And I love watching them.
I tried painting the spider veins and it did help but it did not solve the problem Altogether, I believe it may be back focus issue.
Do you have flare without the coma corrector in place? Of course without the coma corrector, you will observe coma. If so, a fix might be to blacken the edges of the lenses (requires disassembly--not for the faint of heart). Oh, and are the coma corrector optics AR coated?
I'm suspecting the coma corrector!
Cuiv - I just saw this video and am very interested to see if you resolved the problem--my new Carbonstar 150 should be delivered in 3 days. And while you have had lots of replies to the video (and no doubt replies from many folks far more knowledgeable than I), since the flares generally point away from the center of the image for stars that are also located away from the center, it certainly seems like the rig is responding undesirably to off axis light not being focused correctly. It seems related to coma or the coma corrector. Have you tried a different brand of coma corrector?
So I've tried darkening all sorts of areas, I've tried a different coma corrector, etc. nothing fixed it - I suspect an issue with the secondary, but not sure? If you do get those flares, I think Apertura could work with you for a return...
Have you ruled out minor pinch optics take a long exposure of a really bright star so you can see the diffraction spikes better, I cant imagine that anything is in the way of the imaging trained on this since its seems that they had everything in mind to make it for astrophotography.
I haven't cared enough to investigate more, but I will soon try to switch the CC from the Quattro with the CS and see if it's better! That way the cause could be isolated!
Did you paint the edges of the mirrors black? Protect the mirror reflective surface with cling film before painting the edges. I plan to do this with my Sharpstar 130mm f2.8 HNT. Also check back focus using hocus focus
Thanks! Not yet, but might do that - however I want to do that as last resort!
I suspect your scope is based on the GSO 150mm. If you have the GSO focuser have a look at the nice shiny rail on the focuser. In my example the focuser tube extended well into the light path.
Good idea! I'll have a look :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek those mirrors are extremely good, one of the local vendors here in the UK gave me some private test results and they were of a surprisingly good standard... alas the focuser is good but struggled the moment I tried to add a filter wheel... I replaced it with a Baader steeltrak that cost more than the scope... trying to get a focuser to fit the 150mm tube is hard, most are targeted at 200mm tubes.... I have 3d printed a mounting block that should allow any 70mm spaced hole focuser to be mounted.. let me know if you want the .stl ... good luck
Ross
Hi Cuiv, that may be related to reflex in front of the coma corrector. Next time, try to add a short M48 spacer with flocking inside. Helped me a lot.
Thank you! A lot are suspecting the CC, so I'll check that!
Have you solved the issue yet? I’m about to drop on the Carbonstar 150 to go with my Carbonstar 8” RC. Also what method of collimation do you use on the Carbonstar 150?
No! I stopped looking into it because I don't care enough, but I suspect the secondary mirror - if it were to happen to you, I'm sure they would allow a return!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I got the Carbonstar 8” RC returned and exchanged. It’s awesome. The collimation on this one was spot on and the stars are laser sharp!!! I want a Carbonstar 150 to give me a wide field so I can cover everything from large nebula and galaxies to the small galaxies and planetary nebula.
CC might be intensifying the issue still issue from caused by the spider?
I would play the elimination game to find out what is causing it.
Dang, I will have to wait for the next video to know....good stuff buddy.
Hi Cuiv, why do you want to avoid blackening the edges of the secondary mirror? They are painted black on my TS ONTC telescope.
I am pretty old and I have never seen a spider and ring in such a lovely red colour! All I have ever seen is vanes and rings that are black. Might it be the spider and ring or even the secondary mirror holder? I am used to seeing everything black in the path.
To me it seems to be something caused by the coma corrector/reducer, maybe its just the design of it that has some flaws, or maybe a faulty unit.
Thats my guess at least, something to do with the focuser/coma corrector/spacer/camera. Could also be the focuser protruding inside the tube, but I dont think it causes that type of issue
The coma like nature of the flare does rather implicate the corrector (inconclusively 🙄)
Thanks! I'll check with another CC, and maybe also flock the threads on the current CC!
Just a random thought, and probably more trouble than it's worth, but could you swap the mirrors and see how each scope performs? Provided the specs are the same. The primary wouldn't be too difficult to swap, but the secondary could prove to be a can of worms.
Possible, but not for my lazy arse! I'll rather swap the CC/imaging train!
Could it be that the edge of the secondary mirror has chamfered edge that was aluminuzed either partially or fully?
Good idea there too, I'll have a look!
Id paint the sides of the spider and the secondary mirror but my bet is a reflection off the coma corrector. Maybe swap the imagining train from the quattro as mentioned
A lot are mentioning the CC, it's the next one on my list, but also the sides of the spider!
The flare is from the guider prism reflecting back to the flattener. Try to move out the prism as far outside as you can. In general off-axis guiding with a flattenet in front of it is a bad idea.
Unfortunately there's no guider prism, this is the 2600MC Duo!
since when lol, it absolutely works with any issue, there is absolutely no drawbacks in using OAGs with a flattener as long as you configure everything properly
@@CuivTheLazyGeek same thing - the second camera reflects light back....
@@lachezarkrastev7123Would it be possible to safely cover the guider sensor to test this, given the design of the camera?
@@davido2644 sure
Nice review! I remember that you compared refractor/newton telescopes recently. I know that you have an inclination towards newtons even if, sometimes they are not easy to use. Would be nice to see a comparison about the "difficulties" using two refractors... and see if you are still in favour of newtons telescopes. I am a traveler and I do not want to gamble with newtons issues (collimation issues... and others)... now you know my preference! 😇🕶
I think they're very easy to use! But the initial setup until perfection requires a bit more effort :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Perfection with a lot more effort! Too much for me! 😂
I added a mirror clip to mine did you eliminated this completely. Ask Sean from visible dark I used an embroidery hoop... Completely solved it for my Skywatcher 250P
I'll have to look into it!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek it really works fantastic. It did wonders on my fast Newtonian with my nexus corrector. Trevor was having kind of the same problem and I told him about that too. It eliminates those type of flares completely. And the amount of f-stop that you lose? Is minimal.. these Newtonian so fast you don't notice the point 3 decreased in F stop..
Checked subs from my Carbonstar and noticed no similar flares….my guess is backfocus or reflections from the secondary
Would the primary mirror mask also fit on the Quattro? Asking because i have the skywatcher quattro 150 and was planning on printint a mirror mask😅
I don't know but I suspect not...
Perhaps you could swap the image train post coma corrector with the SkyWatcher, just to rule out anything specific to that portion of your image train?
It's a weird reflection for sure Cuiv have you tried shining a light near the camera & around the focuser to see if any light leaks are visible? I know you don't want to blacken the edge of the secondary but if any stray light is hitting it that could be a cause so I'd probably just blacken it anyway. I'm surprised the spider vanes are red though I would have thought a matt black would have been better maybe a last resort paint the vanes as it's easy to remove afterwards. I guess another thing to try is shine a light around the primary to check for light leakage sorry I'm really pulling at straws here lol
Perhaps those are lens aberrations from the coma corrector?
Very possible!
Thinking the issue could be with your camera. Possibly the gain or sensitivity needs adjustment.
I don't believe so - cameras don't really add such artifacts (except stuff like microlensing on the 1600MM for instance, but that's symmetrical across the field), and I'm using the bog standard unity gain...
Might be reflections off the edge of the secondary spider and inner sides of spider front tube ring support ❤. Especially if it’s really shiny.
Cuiv, the artifacts you are experiencing remind me a bit of the artifacts one encounters on SCTs that have dew rings attached. Do you have some kind of anti-dew device attached? If so, have you tested imaging with the anti-dew turned off?
Hey Cuive hw are you.
Have you thought weather the main mirror is either cut slightly to shallow or to deep as the flaring is fairly symmetrical. l just an idea
Hi Cuiv:
Have you tried Hocus Focus in Nina? It highlighted all sorts of problems with my fast Newt.
I'll try it out :)
- suppress the 3 primary securing brackets (pattes anti retournement du primaire). Replace them by either nylon washers painted in black, or a glued loose sling at the back of the primary
- add a fan at the back of the primary to extract the hot air from the tube. The fan should blow from the inside to the outside, because thus the air flow inside the tube will stay laminar
- a constrained secondary will also make some spikes : examine how the secondary is glued : if the double sided adhésive is too thin, cut it using a butter cutting wire and replace it by either a thicker double sided adhesive foam adhesive or by 3 drops of silicon aquarium glue with at least a 3mm thickness.
- observe the inside of the tube : cut all the protuding sceews or use a baffle to hide them. The limit of the field of view must be round and smooth.
- add an anular baffle just 5 mm above the primary to mask the edge of the primary. Together with the backside fan, It will also help in removing the turbulent boudary layer which otherwise would stay at the top of the primary and blurs the stars.
I see something very similar on a rasa 8 (has a diffraction spike mask installed) not as bright and have to pixel peep on some stars but still there. So I would be very interested to find out what is course is in your case is.
Make like a black widow and black the spider fully or at least the sides. If you have another black spider that would fit, try swapping it out. I think the spider is the issue. While you have blacked the back of the spider, the sides are still fairly reflective and given the low angle of incidence, its possible light is reflecting off the side of the veins and flaring. If you've blacked all other possible sources of reflection, then what's left must be the culprit.
If you are worried about painting everything, try masking tape/painters tape and then paint the tape black, so if the veins are not the issue you can just pull off the tape. Same thing about the sides of the secondary mirror, mask and paint OR mask, remove, paint, remask OR paint tape and then mask. You like to tinker, so tinker. :)
Thanks mate, good point on the spider sides as well!
Coma corrector internal reflection. I have the same thing on my Quatrro 8.
Seems a lot of people have the same thought, I'll check it!
I think you answered your own question. "...my collimation is really bad" You certainly should be collimated very well before looking for other problems!
No, as I mention later in the video, the symptom is still there with good collimation :)
I have the same scope with the same issue but the mask did help! I’m using the ASI533MC Pro, Starizona Nexus and Optolong L Enhance filter. The problem isn’t really that bad and seems better on some targets. I seem to remember Luke having issues with his Edge or maybe it was the Rasa that had a weird star. I might try to taper the leading edge of the mirror mask to get rid of the sharp edge.
In the end I'm not too worried about it because it's acceptable to me :) and glad you seem to have the same philosophy!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for the mirror mask. I looked it up again and it was yours. Appreciate it bud!
Is the focuser axis right on secondary mirror axis, or in other words, is the focuser collimated ?
Hey Cuiv, I'm thinking it's caused by the sides of the spider being painted red. I know you probably don't want to paint them but I would try since spider veins should be flat black on the side that can reflect light along the path to the mirror. BTW, absolutely great videos and have watched and continue to watch all of your videos on TH-cam! Keep Looking Up and enjoying the journey ✨️ Cheers!
A lot of people are suspecting the CC, but that's also a possibility, I'll check!
5 minutes only if the primary mirror housing will come out of the tube w/o any issues - which mine wont!
It almost looks like coma. Maybe backfocus is a bit off or something is off with the coma corrector
I'm suspecting the CC!
I have a carbonStar on order so I hope you find out what this is. From your video,I did see the coma corrected looks very shinny and might need to be painted. Do you also have other set of the Batman Appetizers you can put on it to see if that makes a difference?
Good idea on the coma corrector! Will implement that first :)
Is the focuser protruding into the scope? How does the secondary mirror look? Did you blacken the front red outer ring when you blackened the spider veins?
No on the first one, secondary looks fine as far as I can tell, the outer ring is also blackened... :( Bit of a mystery!
Hey Cuiv! My friend, these are simply "stab in the dark" suggestions, but have you considered internal reflections coming from the actual Mirrors themselves? Maybe one of the Mirrors has a slight manufacturing defect? Or possibly the Coma Corrector? Apart from that I honestly cannot think what else you could do to rectify the flaring? Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of it at some point! Thanks as always for the great content my friend! Wes.
Thanks for the idea Wes! Seems most are suspecting the CC, so I'll start there!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek ☺👍
I'm not so sure this is necessarily a light leak. Would recommend double checking your back focus and looking for internal reflections in your image train.
I should add that my F4 Skywatcher Quattro 200 is very sensitive to back focus
I think internal reflections in the CC are a likely culprit, I'll check that!
Could it be the OAG intruding into the light path?
Hey Cuiv, which free tool did you use to design the mirror mask? I have a new scope coming (ZWO 153F4) and documentation on it is quite sparse, so I may have to do what you did and design my own. Something I've actually never done before!
I simply used Tinkercad, together with trigonometry!
POINT to the RedCat ;)
(more seriously: how close to that first baffle height are those focuser screws inside the tube?)
The baffle seems to be fully hiding the screws from the optics so I think it should be fine!
Try with a field-flattener...
What would useful is a front dust cover that doubles as a cover at the other end to prevent light leak. Has anyone tried 3D printing such a thing? Is there some obvious reason why this isn't done that I have missed?
Hey Cuiv,
Just a shot in the dark; but what kind of paint did you use for the back of the spider? Is it by any chance somewhat reflective?
If yoy are 1000% sure it is no light leaks or reflections then, I think, the culprit is the coma corrector. Not exactly sure how or why but simoly through the process of elimination. It can't be the camera, reflections or other common issue like the mirror clips.
Perhaps the coma corrector has some bad coatings and is somehow partially reflecting light or is having light reflected onto it? (Highly unlikely as no oag is oresent in the optical train). As someone else has suggested, get rid of the coma corrector or swap it for the quatro cc. While you're at it try changing the camera because you never know in this hobby 😅
I'll try with the Quattro CC! First I'll try to add some flocking to the CC in front of the lens :)
can it be pinched optics ? 🤔
Probably not since I did back out those screws quite a bit!