Advertising has become oppressive. I must spend 20 minutes a day avoiding ads--muting or lowering the volume on devices, Xing out of ad windows, switching channels. We are bombarded with this meaningless crap.
Absolutely correct. When every aspect of life is commoditized for profit then life itself is nothing but a commodity. We cease being human beings- just vessels for profit.
@@paulaoh5306 Around 30 years ago, I began joking that the only place I didn't see advertising was on the inside of my eyelids...yet. And of course, almost nothing that gets advertised is an actual need. For example, we need food, but we don't need Oreos, as delicious as they are. We do need vegetables, but only when your grocery store has a sale, do you see a broccoli ad. But it's not a brand name item. The need for so many things and services is itself a manufactured need. I think it's really about creating addictions. That, I think, is the main sickness in this country. We are all addicted in ways we never were before.
In the absence of the results of which we wouldn’t be communicating right now … the poverty of elite moral imagination has left the masses bereft and awash in all they know how to do - endlessly substitute one vice for another
Well said. It is a huge red light to those that know narcissistic people and being a malignant narcissist and sociopath propels him forward into mental illness that we should have known.
A very lively and instructive conversation between two very good friends about how the cheap, discombobulated and narcissistic kind of insipid credulity and search for self gratification became national traits in the USA and many other countries, by the way, not just in the USA. In the end a questioner makes the most sensible, well thought out and sensibly articulated appeal for all Americans to trust that that kind of voter is still paying attention and is going to save the day. The stakes are very high! Heed the call and save us from utter perdition. Please!
Thank you, Laurence. I remember the frustration of how long it took to publicly call trump's lies lies. Now it's commonplace but the damage is done. Now his followers call the truth about trump's lies lies. We are truly beyond the looking glass.
Exactly. And I was calling MAGA a cult of personality back in 2017, and everyone thought I was crazy and the comments would be deleted. Now it has become common to refer to MAGA as a cult. But why did it take so long for people to speak openly about what was so apparent? And he was normalized by the media, especially in the beginning, and that was a big mistake.
@user-zb7uh2ob1r You make a VERY important point. Trump could not utter the same words from the beginning. He gave the public a little poison every day
In case you missed it, and I think it's important, -- David Pakman has written a small book For children called "Think Like A Detective". It teaches cognitive thinking.
I found Kurt Anderson's Book, "Fantasyland" so valuable and insightful. His historical presentation of America always being driven by magical thinking and by following charlatans of every strip, help me understand why America is the way it is. His Disney land story stuck with me because America dreams of being in fictitious America. America does not want to see America for what it is. That would be too woke (we even invented a new word to explain it.) We should listen to Mr Anderson.
Retired journalist here. The source of the rot is managing editors and their bosses. Message to me was “ Go after them. That’s the story!” I was compelled to make honorable people appear foolish. I hate myself for going along.
Thank you for giving me reason for not doubting the choice to quit my publication, rather than betray my morals. If only I could pretend to write reichwing junk. They pay a fortune, and no pesky fact checkers, editors, or sourcing.
You can recover from such self-hatred. Most thinking people can learn from such deception. Far more destructive is Crony Corporatism combined with Religionism, which leads most often to fascistic law.
Brilliant observation on the "entertainment" snuck into "religion". Msgr. Ronald Knox wrote a book on just this in the 30's, "Enthusiasm", showing how the charasmatic personality drew the frustrated masses away from the collective true followers of Christ to focus solely on the individual taking prominence.
However, when "true followers" are fooled into unconstitutional approaches to Re-established Religionist politics and law, then Fascism can reappear in governance!
Just watched a great interview with Charlie Sykes on how he left the right and became a never trumper. His discussion on tribalism is really fascinating
That was fantastic. Lawrence, I didn't know you contributed to the West Wing. I always wanted to watch that series; it's on the to do list. You both made some very interesting points. Thank you both Happy Holidays to all 💙💙👍👍💙💙🌈🌈
I live in California. As far as supreme court nominations go most MAGA votes in the senate count a thousand percent more than my vote. I resent their constant whining that they are not heard. I worked hard then; I became a care-giver for my mom for twenty years. I am on the low end of the economic ladder. I am a renter on social security with a little bit of savings I use for emergencies. I am sick and tired of being belittled as an elitist. They are elitist.
@@sandarahcatmom9897 - What does that even mean? Anyone can move, there are things called suitcases, and buses. What you would save on rent would pay for the ticket in the first month. Sometimes you need to sacrifice in the short term, to benefit in the long run. Your mentality is precisely why people remain in poverty.
It has been said that Americans rejected royalty -- we prefer to be able to both choose and reject those we idolize. It is time for ALL voters, including those that have supported a former reality tv star in the past, who actually care about individual liberty, equality of right and justice under law to reject "45" AND all his enablers. Vote out all Republicans. Vote for every Democrat on the ballot to protect freedom and democracy.
@@TeaParty1776 Democracy is the political method of choosing leaderships. Freedom vs. tyranny is governance. The US is, supposedly, a nation that intends to have individual liberty and equality of right and justice for all. Those that want to replace democracy with tyranny would also end individual liberty and equality.
@@stoppin2look > Democracy is the political method of choosing leaderships Individual rights defend mans free will mind, the basic method of survival. Democracy (UNlimited majority rule) is a confession of the hatred and terror of mans free will mind. Rocks fall when thrown. Rocks sink in water. Democracy changes into anarchy. Anarchy changes into dictatorship. This is history from ancient Greece to now. Democracy has no objective guide to voting. Emotions rule.
When LBJ signed the civil rights laws in the middle of the last century, he famously said that doing so lost "the south" for the Democrats for a generation. He grossly underestimated the depth of the contempt or outright hatred the most extreme members of the various guns&bibles had for others unlike themselves in some way that the zealots considered to be the core of their being. The actual owners of the Republican brand -- the greediest of the wealthiest, a permanent minority -- saw an opportunity for a cost effective gathering of rank&file followers... and all they had to do was turn away from any libertarian leanings they once had and pretend to embrace and act to encourage the zealotry. Lest some object to the most extreme of their new cults ideas, along the way the politicians in which they invested created a new rule, "thou shall speak no ill of fellow Republican. The owners of the Republican brand and their politicians have been all too willing to accept extremism and reject individual liberty in pursuit of power. Power is the objective of both the owners of the brand and the cult followers. Together, they seek a white male dominated, oligarch controlled, fascist, feudal theocracy of the hypocrite flavor. With every advance in weapons and security technology, it becomes ever more difficult for the many to overthrow the few in control of government and that technology. That means that DEMOCRACY REALLY IS ON THE BALLOT in 2024.
The right wing has been organizing for many years to control politics. To wit ... The Federalist Society, the White Nationalist Evangelical movement (scam vangelists), the mega donors like the Koch Brothers, gerrymandering, and the takeover of the Supreme Court. In many respects they have simply outmanurvered the left wing from a political strategic standpoint. Chump was simply in the right place at the right time to take advantage of decades of republican efforts. Unfortunately the democrats are simply not very good at political strategy and utilizing the massive advantages that they have. One can probably rack that up to poor organizational leadership and an unwillingness to effectively exploit the numerous advantages that they have. Instead of "political hacks" trying the same old tired and often failing political strategies, they need "killer leaders" to define and implement strategies that will dominate the electoral college. A superstar business leader like for example a Mike Bloomberg could figure that out. Please when you have an "excess" of 8+ million extra popular votes and you cannot dominate the electoral college .... then that is just poor and ineffective leadership. The politicians in the democratic party are good, much better than the republicans. But the strategic and organizational leadership of the democrats is getting outplayed by the republicans for many years now.
They're all functionaries of the same project. Agreed, right-wing talk radio could have gotten a mention. But their noting the start of the Fox cable channel kind of has an entire thread unto itself, under prohibitive time constraints it seems.
100% they did forget Limbaugh, who never loved this country, he loved profits, just like the right wing “influencers” now. If they could get the same money being hard-core Lefties, they’d be doing that now. It’s always about tax cuts and always will be.
Hate and anger, without resolution and day after day, change the brain. Limbaugh began as comedy, trashing Fairness Doctrine let him and others Crack our foundations.
This was a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation about all the things (some going back hundreds of years) that got us to where we are today, with Trump still having a chance to be re-elected. However, one topic was left out: The thing that could have stopped Trump in his tracks (as contrasted with laying the foundation for his rise). That thing: A Functioning (Not Corrupt) Criminal Justice System. A bunch of years ago, Bill Maher had Preet Bharara (former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York) on his show and asked him why Trump had never been prosecuted / convicted in the decades leading up to his run for the presidency. Preet gave a joke of an answer, when he said "My bad." If you read "Hiding in Plain Sight" and "They Knew" by Sarah Kendzior, you will learn how massively corrupt America's judicial system is beneath its image as the protector of America from crime (including international crime). Had Trump been treated like the criminal he was for decades, he NEVER would have been able to succeed as a politician... might not even been given the opportunity to star in The Apprentice. Rumor is that Trump played the FBI (by giving them information on the Mafia) in exchange for them leaving him alone. In doing this, Trump could threaten the FBI with exposing their "sources and methods". I strongly urge Lawrence O'Donnell to interview Sarah Kendzior (who has been on MSNBC in the past but not recently) on the subject of who Merrick Garland is (which goes to why Garland hasn't prosecuted any of the seditious members of Congress in addition to why he waited 2 years before investigating Trump) as well as the overall subject of corruption in America. Her two books are real eye openers. And she has a Substack newsletter too. Thanks for listening.
West Wing was one of my all time favorites and the Last Word is my favorite MSNBC show, but O’Donnell’s answer to the last question was a lame cop out; still kudos to Anderson for his centuries long historical sweep
Great explanation of how we got here…so you answered the how. The question that was not answered is why we got here - what is going on with the American population to embrace this? Many have addressed this, but Lawrence’s and Kurt’s perspective would be helpful.
Try from the 1950's - or even way back in the 1920's, when Herbert Hoover became the willing handmaiden to corporate greed in America, and helped tip America into the Great Depression.
@@nancychandler3673 That was way back in 1893. Cleveland had nothing to do with the 1929 crash on Wall Street, unless you're referring to his policy changes some 36 years earlier. He did turn strongly conservative during his second, non-consecutive term in the White House.
Hoover was as anti-capitalist statist who helped cause the GD. Your "greed" is religious blather. Capitalism is about rational ambition and self-respect.
@@TeaParty1776 Wrong. From Smithsonian: "Hoover never accepted the notion that capitalism was dead, or that central planning was the answer. He insisted on private enterprise as the mainspring of development and social progress, and capitalism as the one “ism” that would preserve individual liberty and initiative." From Governing: "We tend to think of Hoover as a stiff and unresourceful man who failed to respond adequately to the coming of the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression. True enough..."
Candidate selection by primary has turned out to be a huge mistake. The most extreme 10% of both parties is picking the candidates we vote for in the general election.
You need to consider the obscene and worsening economic and thus existential inequality that defines the US as a major factor contributing to Trumpism and authoritarianism. The growing sense of injustice engendered by inequality leads to the rage which fuels Trumpism.
A large segment of his followers are well off. They see through his con, but they don't care because he serves their interests and fuels their anti-democratic leanings.
The "inequality" is not the problem. It's the American dream was vanquished by Clinton in doubling corporate tax rates simultaniously with initiating free trade laws with countries such as Mexico, Ireland, and China who had only 15% tax rates vs Clintons 35% rate. Shipping costs were down to $1,000 per container in the late 90s. Tax was 60% discounted. Labor was 90% discounted. Why wouldn't they all leave? There are now HALF as many companies in America listed on the NYSE than 1999. HALF.
It's not that I disagree. It's that the year Donald first visited Russia was the year his name was first floated as a potential presidential candidate. Putin uses him because he inherited him.
Trump's Russian ties start far earlier than his visit. I cannot recommend enough Craig Unger's American Kompromat for a well-researched presentation of the timeline and connections.
@@TeaParty1776 ah. I see the problem: you don't know the definition of "emotion." The thing you don't understand is the thing that has power over you. It would be well to keep that in mind.
Like those he admires, his personal traumas and envies have collectively turned into world traumas. They are all Heathcliff and Frankenstein, and Shaka Zulu, and no matter our deep beliefs or non-beliefs, WE must now fight to shine the lights of wellness, love and spiritual life across all landS.
We should not forget the underlying unhappiness of the average working guy or gal, whose needs have been ignored by both parties for far too long. Trump released the valve on the pressure cooker and we are in this terrible place now, a real life horror story.
they don't vote very much and when they do vote they consistently vote against their economic interests - working class folks should have voted for Bernie, not Trump - they have to own it
This is a cop out that assholes use to support assholes. I AM your average working guy/gal who is surrounded by average guys/gals and the ones who I know that support trump were assholes before him. He just gave them permission to be louder about it. Enough of the excuses.
Ignored indeed, and made more vulnerable to insanity by the clickbait thoughtlessness and cookie analysis encouraged by greedy Crony Corporatists with unregulated social platforms!
Please explain your comment, as it certainly does not match up with imperial data on certain elective periods. There are huge differences in social policies.
@@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401 As a life long Dem, I can understand the unhappiness of an ordinary person with the college educated/elites, the advances of modern technology and the impact on those who just do not understand the new world of work around them. This doesn't mean Dems have done nothing......in fact Dems have done far more than the R's. Dem communication needs to be improved significantly so that people can recognize the things that have been done for them.
What about the Lincoln/Douglas debates? Who's the media executive that made "The News" entertainment? Modern news is the same as Seinfeld or Dancing With the Stars, it's entertainment and needs ratings.
It seems like, to a 77 year old, that several forces together as well as the media responses led to the MAGA worshippers. I think that after Vietnam the US had a major economy and employment crisis. Defense contractors that used to make and sell home appliances for instances lost defense contracts and started relocating to other countries where labor would be much cheaper and maybe more trainable more cheaply, as well as facilities less costly. So many in US were left unemployed or underemployed. Meanwhile Nixon had nixed the successful social programs of the Johnson era, insisting that he pulled himself up by his bootstraps and so could anyone else. That was a big mistake that negatively affected all races in the US. During Johnson Era we could walk across the street and see a competent therapist for $5. Now it is over $120 with insurance coverage. That's one example of the social net breaking. So drugs became a goto for mental health. Led to more employment problems and people's ability to solve their problems constructively, vote intelligently, and stay healthy enough to hold a job. Then they had just self reliance left and government became an impedence to that. Someone now can become homeless overnight literally and have to wait several months for a decision as to if help is available to them. In meantime they have lived in the street, out of their cars, sofa surfing, relying on generosity of religious institutions to feed and clothe them. The part if society that stays afloat looks down on them, has their IRA's, hasn't a clue what happened or why. You see, the more you have the more you get here. Tbe less you have the less you can get. Regardless of your skills or motivation. Social programs can be managed to fill the gap, and economic planning by government is essential to have a healthy job market. I voted for Ralph Nader because he was stressing the importance of the people as employees and consumers as the basis of a good economy and a healthy nation.
A few days ago the Dion song, Abraham, Martin & John showed up on my TH-cam. I heard it again as it's one of the better 'listens' in the music world. Then I thought, "Our country hasn't gotten better or worse". 😪
I think - you get to where you are - wherever the hell we all are via 100,000s of others. And we are not "there" very long. 😊 I am the greatest me I can be at any given moment. Hopefully. 2005-2024. What was or is the problem, world?
Read "Fantasyland"...full of little "wow" revelations. So much of the reality show fascination, cult of looking-young-forever fixation is key to understanding American culture in the modern era.
I see some ancient TV reruns from the 60s occasionally and popular sports and entertainment figures were often featured on family-centric sitcoms of that era. Guys like Frank Gifford acted as if they were ordinary, humble dudes rather than celebrity demigods. I guess that was the socially accepted expectation of the day. But, wow, have celebrities changed! They are over entitled public A-holes now, behaving like they are above all the rules of decorum. I cite one Kanye West ( he of too many name changes ) as an example. Trump, of course, is the worst case study of people who got more famous just for being rich and famous. It's just a tawdry spectacle of nihilistic waste. That's what people are shown as examples of celebrity now. Nothing there to be proud of.
The boastful persona adopted by Ali was inspired by the professional wrestler Gorgeous George. Ali saw its potential to fill the arenas for his fights. This archetype was already well-established by then and known as 'The Heel". That's who 45 is, a pro-wrestling villain come to life.
I remember as a very young person when Roone Arledge at ABC News realized money could be made from “news.” Journalistic integrity became secondary to getting eyes on the news show to sell ads.
Wikipedia records this about el-Sisi… El-Sisi has been nicknamed "the Mexican" by Egyptians critical of his leadership, owing to the similarity between his name and the word "El-Meksisi."
I believe when Jimmy Swaggert openly condemned Jerry Lee Lewis and Mickey Gillies he opened the door to abandoning the Bible and spreading hate to good church goers.
@@kayfitzgerald309 Except he made a massive amount of money using the name of Jesus, and casting stones at others.. We didn't all do that. We shall see at the Great Throne... Personally I don't care, but since that occurred millions of people feel justified and in fact it is their duty to be nasty to their neighbors in the name of Jesus.
@allandalegibson1194 agreed!! I personally follow Dr. Charles Stanley, I have for years!! He went to be with Our Father last year, 😢 but he's on every Sunday morning, where I live, also here on TH-cam 🩷 GOD BLESS YOU 💜💜💜
Great to see these two boomers and an audience, though small also of boomers because they all have historical reach lacking, for example, in millenials.
Lost all semblance of journalism. Corporations own everything including PBS, which would have removed Trump at the beginning, but chose to make Trump equal to the Democratic electors.
mayb e we should NOT allow the general mob or public to vote for their candidates. Maybe you need new very hard restrictions or qualifications. Such as intelligence, age, civics knowledge and people who are only US born citizens, not just "citizens". Rich people should never be allowed to vote. People who are in cults should not be allowed to vote. People who cannot pass a general knowledge on who and what the candidates are cannot vote. No voting just because "you heard that name before" thing.
100% liberal executives of reality show television, Lawrence says. Apparently, he isn’t aware of Mark Burnett, the creator of the very first reality show, Survivor. Burnett is hardly a liberal, lol.
The William F. Buckley v. Gore Vidal debates were disgusting. It only happened because Vidal was so vain that he could not pass up an opportunity to mug for the camera. Our media still does this kind of thing when they compare/contrast Conservatives and Liberals, they make it seem like all Liberals are defective in some way - minorities or gay ... and the media has run with this for many decades. And over time this has stuck and is why white in America have moved over to the Conservative party - because they feel like all the government only serves minorities and illegal aliens, which is ridiculous.
No they aren't. You are not an expert - clearly - we are moving from a Judeo Christain society to a science and math based society - there is no scientific basis to discriminate against women of queer people in any way - they are homo sapiens - same as you - traditionally babies get their DNA from mom and ad in a 50/50 split - there are now babies with DNA from 3 parents - you are slow to adapt to this new world@@VonKirda
Watching liberals blame Cassius Clay and African American culture on the rise of Trump is pretty funny. And also subtly racist 😂. I’m loving the part where he’s like “if only they hadn’t started doing end zone dances at football games we’d have the appropriate modesty as a country”
I find the curent modern day WH Press Corps to be lazy, having a "herd/pack mentality", play off each other and usually go for the cheap 7 second sound bite and "on-the-one hand-on-the-other" false equivalancy argument rather than illuminating on any issue.
Yep, too much "democracy" doesn't work. We don't "choose"candidates for doctors, engineers, scientists, statisticians, policemen, firefighters, pilots, by popular vote.
By your reply, I imagine you were not a voter in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected. I didn't vote for him, I didn't agree with him, but he was far more competent than DJT. Further, it is the decline of objectivity in the media, that is the greater problem, one created when the profit motive was enabled to ignore the community motive purpose.
Reagan tore up the social safety net. Until his presidency, the hoboes, single men who rode the freight cars, moving from season to season, were the only homeless people. As a result of Reagan's destruction of public programs, women and children became homeless.
It was great seeing Lawrence O Donnell out of his normal work mode at MSNBC. He is one smart cookie
Kurt nailed it....the "selling of everything" is an ongoing problem and its intensity continues to increase. It sickens me to my core.
Advertising has become oppressive. I must spend 20 minutes a day avoiding ads--muting or lowering the volume on devices, Xing out of ad windows, switching channels. We are bombarded with this meaningless crap.
Absolutely correct. When every aspect of life is commoditized for profit then life itself is nothing but a commodity. We cease being human beings- just vessels for profit.
@@paulaoh5306 Around 30 years ago, I began joking that the only place I didn't see advertising was on the inside of my eyelids...yet.
And of course, almost nothing that gets advertised is an actual need. For example, we need food, but we don't need Oreos, as delicious as they are. We do need vegetables, but only when your grocery store has a sale, do you see a broccoli ad. But it's not a brand name item. The need for so many things and services is itself a manufactured need. I think it's really about creating addictions. That, I think, is the main sickness in this country. We are all addicted in ways we never were before.
In the absence of the results of which we wouldn’t be communicating right now … the poverty of elite moral imagination has left the masses bereft and awash in all they know how to do - endlessly substitute one vice for another
Dont worry. We are moving from selling to govt power.
17:29 “I don’t know” is the sign of intelligence and humility. “Only I can fix this” is the sign of an ignorant narcissist.
That statement is based on others standing before us exclaiming " only I know the way to heaven"`so let me show you the way.
Exactly. Thank you!
Well said. It is a huge red light to those that know narcissistic people and being a malignant narcissist and sociopath propels him forward into mental illness that we should have known.
it's like the children who haven't yet come to understand that fact are the ones determining which voice we value
It is the rallying cry of all dictators and tyrants with an array of diagnoses.
Thumbs UP to Lawrence O'Donnell and Kurt Andersen for this presentation! I'm reading Evil Geniuses now.
O'Donnell and Andersen...2 American heroes!
A very lively and instructive conversation between two very good friends about how the cheap, discombobulated and narcissistic kind of insipid credulity and search for self gratification became national traits in the USA and many other countries, by the way, not just in the USA.
In the end a questioner makes the most sensible, well thought out and sensibly articulated appeal for all Americans to trust that that kind of voter is still paying attention and is going to save the day. The stakes are very high! Heed the call and save us from utter perdition. Please!
Youre going to Hell!
Terrific conversation. Thank you. I am grateful.😊
Totally agree. Hope for more such informative conversations.
Very bright guys. Kurt's novels stir up a lot of ideas. This new book probably will become a good historical artifact, a roadmap.
Fantastic...thank you from London.
Thank you, Laurence. I remember the frustration of how long it took to publicly call trump's lies lies. Now it's commonplace but the damage is done. Now his followers call the truth about trump's lies lies. We are truly beyond the looking glass.
Exactly. And I was calling MAGA a cult of personality back in 2017, and everyone thought I was crazy and the comments would be deleted. Now it has become common to refer to MAGA as a cult. But why did it take so long for people to speak openly about what was so apparent? And he was normalized by the media, especially in the beginning, and that was a big mistake.
A truly serious pandemic of ignorance and lack of critical thinking.
We MUST vote blue 💙
@user-zb7uh2ob1r You make a VERY important point. Trump could not utter the same words from the beginning. He gave the public a little poison every day
In case you missed it, and I think it's important, -- David Pakman has written a small book For children called "Think Like A Detective". It teaches cognitive thinking.
I found Kurt Anderson's Book, "Fantasyland" so valuable and insightful. His historical presentation of America always being driven by magical thinking and by following charlatans of every strip, help me understand why America is the way it is. His Disney land story stuck with me because America dreams of being in fictitious America. America does not want to see America for what it is. That would be too woke (we even invented a new word to explain it.) We should listen to Mr Anderson.
America was created in the rational Enlightenment. Later phjilosophers, Left and Right ,rejected reason for mysticism and subjectivism.
Kurt just laid out how crass our culture is.
Has always been.
trail of tears the american indian's sad plgh😂😢
morningjoe 30 mar 2024
d gell no
It's on evidence in this comment section.
Retired journalist here. The source of the rot is managing editors and their bosses. Message to me was “ Go after them. That’s the story!”
I was compelled to make honorable people appear foolish. I hate myself for going along.
Thank you for giving me reason for not doubting the choice to quit my publication, rather than betray my morals.
If only I could pretend to write reichwing junk. They pay a fortune, and no pesky fact checkers, editors, or sourcing.
You can recover from such self-hatred. Most thinking people can learn from such deception. Far more destructive is Crony Corporatism combined with Religionism, which leads most often to fascistic law.
Brilliant observation on the "entertainment" snuck into "religion".
Msgr. Ronald Knox wrote a book on just this in the 30's, "Enthusiasm", showing how the charasmatic personality drew the frustrated masses away from the collective true followers of Christ to focus solely on the individual taking prominence.
However, when "true followers" are fooled into unconstitutional approaches to Re-established Religionist politics and law, then Fascism can reappear in governance!
Just watched a great interview with Charlie Sykes on how he left the right and became a never trumper. His discussion on tribalism is really fascinating
Got a link?
@@frankmarsh1159th-cam.com/video/SO0DVT409cI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=X0Lz00Vv7_j-leRK
Thank you🎉
Really appreciate the tangential threads, giving in-depth context.
That was fantastic. Lawrence, I didn't know you contributed to the West Wing. I always wanted to watch that series; it's on the to do list.
You both made some very interesting points.
Thank you both
Happy Holidays to all
💙💙👍👍💙💙🌈🌈
I live in California. As far as supreme court nominations go most MAGA votes in the senate count a thousand percent more than my vote. I resent their constant whining that they are not heard. I worked hard then; I became a care-giver for my mom for twenty years. I am on the low end of the economic ladder. I am a renter on social security with a little bit of savings I use for emergencies. I am sick and tired of being belittled as an elitist. They are elitist.
And they want to take away Social Security too
Simply an idiotic system. Minority rule. From a resident of crazy, nut job FL.
@crl7413 - If you’re a renter on SS, why are you still in CA? Move to a state where the cost of living is lower.
@@samadamms3432. Like moving is affordable when you’re poor?
@@sandarahcatmom9897 - What does that even mean? Anyone can move, there are things called suitcases, and buses.
What you would save on rent would pay for the ticket in the first month. Sometimes you need to sacrifice in the short term, to benefit in the long run. Your mentality is precisely why people remain in poverty.
Omg! "Short-fingered vulgarian"... Excellent!!! 😂🤣❤👍
i heard Bulgarian? lol
How is that "excellent"? It's schoolyard bs. I bet you have a university degree, too. 🤷🏻♂️
@@vipermad358 Just an excellent play on words. If you don't get it, that's not my fault.
Such ridicule is STILL ad hominum nonsense, not the fruitful parody of political cartoons, outlawed by the mistaken NYTimes!
@@LibrawLou
I am still laughing at your post!
It has been said that Americans rejected royalty -- we prefer to be able to both choose and reject those we idolize. It is time for ALL voters, including those that have supported a former reality tv star in the past, who actually care about individual liberty, equality of right and justice under law to reject "45" AND all his enablers. Vote out all Republicans. Vote for every Democrat on the ballot to protect freedom and democracy.
Well said.
Democracy is unlimited majority rule, ie, anti-individual rights. Left=Right. Ayn Rand is the radical alternative.
@@TeaParty1776 Democracy is the political method of choosing leaderships. Freedom vs. tyranny is governance. The US is, supposedly, a nation that intends to have individual liberty and equality of right and justice for all. Those that want to replace democracy with tyranny would also end individual liberty and equality.
@@stoppin2look > Democracy is the political method of choosing leaderships
Individual rights defend mans free will mind, the basic method of survival. Democracy (UNlimited majority rule) is a confession of the hatred and terror of mans free will mind. Rocks fall when thrown. Rocks sink in water. Democracy changes into anarchy. Anarchy changes into dictatorship. This is history from ancient Greece to now. Democracy has no objective guide to voting. Emotions rule.
@@stoppin2look Individual rights protect individuals from leaders. Individual rights contradicts equality (except legal equality).
We can’t overlook the influence of consumer capitalism, “I can have what I want”, and also say and think what I want, idealized in the cult leader
100%… a greenlight to act terrible. It’s childish.
Big tech is winning
Indeed, but the resulting cult is not simply a "personality" cult, it is most importantly a Religionist Cult!
Capitalism is producers. The Garden of Eden is about consumers.
@@LibrawLou
Everyone should be very frightened by the power and influence of this movement.
Your shows are always very enlightening. Thank you so much, Lawrence.
As I listen to this conversation, I am reminded of the book "Amusing Ourselves to Death".
An over dedication to being entertained, right?!
Author?
@black_sheep_nation3572 Neil Postman wrote "Amusing Ourselves to Death".
@@karenmorris674 thanks
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You
Modesty. Another aspect of character. Bless Lawrence.
When LBJ signed the civil rights laws in the middle of the last century, he famously said that doing so lost "the south" for the Democrats for a generation. He grossly underestimated the depth of the contempt or outright hatred the most extreme members of the various guns&bibles had for others unlike themselves in some way that the zealots considered to be the core of their being.
The actual owners of the Republican brand -- the greediest of the wealthiest, a permanent minority -- saw an opportunity for a cost effective gathering of rank&file followers... and all they had to do was turn away from any libertarian leanings they once had and pretend to embrace and act to encourage the zealotry.
Lest some object to the most extreme of their new cults ideas, along the way the politicians in which they invested created a new rule, "thou shall speak no ill of fellow Republican. The owners of the Republican brand and their politicians have been all too willing to accept extremism and reject individual liberty in pursuit of power.
Power is the objective of both the owners of the brand and the cult followers. Together, they seek a white male dominated, oligarch controlled, fascist, feudal theocracy of the hypocrite flavor.
With every advance in weapons and security technology, it becomes ever more difficult for the many to overthrow the few in control of government and that technology. That means that DEMOCRACY REALLY IS ON THE BALLOT in 2024.
"the south" encompasses the "biblebelt"
Well said. I call it "neo-feudalism." Few seem to see it, even though that is what they have in Russia. Russia never completely let go of feudalism.
Well said. I just can't understand why the masses can't see it.
The masses cannot see it because they're infected with #BabyDoomerism.
> the greediest of the wealthiest
Thats a mystical claim, not abstracted from concrete observation.
I think they ignored other factors, particularly the right-wing propagandists and strategists. Limbaugh & Roger Ailes were the big early figures.
The right wing has been organizing for many years to control politics. To wit ...
The Federalist Society, the White Nationalist Evangelical movement (scam vangelists), the mega donors like the Koch Brothers, gerrymandering, and the takeover of the Supreme Court. In many respects they have simply outmanurvered the left wing from a political strategic standpoint. Chump was simply in the right place at the right time to take advantage of decades of republican efforts.
Unfortunately the democrats are simply not very good at political strategy and utilizing the massive advantages that they have. One can probably rack that up to poor organizational leadership and an unwillingness to effectively exploit the numerous advantages that they have. Instead of "political hacks" trying the same old tired and often failing political strategies, they need "killer leaders" to define and implement strategies that will dominate the electoral college. A superstar business leader like for example a Mike Bloomberg could figure that out. Please when you have an "excess" of 8+ million extra popular votes and you cannot dominate the electoral college .... then that is just poor and ineffective leadership.
The politicians in the democratic party are good, much better than the republicans. But the strategic and organizational leadership of the democrats is getting outplayed by the republicans for many years now.
@marytenn378
Trump lost
Biden won
Accept it
@leemdynamo To your point, they also neglected to bring up Lee Atwater.
They're all functionaries of the same project. Agreed, right-wing talk radio could have gotten a mention. But their noting the start of the Fox cable channel kind of has an entire thread unto itself, under prohibitive time constraints it seems.
100% they did forget Limbaugh, who never loved this country, he loved profits, just like the right wing “influencers” now. If they could get the same money being hard-core Lefties, they’d be doing that now. It’s always about tax cuts and always will be.
Gary Trudeau of Doonesbury also had a clear understanding of what trump was trying to do back in the '80's.
Relevant parody at a high level!
Hate and anger, without resolution and day after day, change the brain. Limbaugh began as comedy, trashing Fairness Doctrine let him and others Crack our foundations.
Endless commercials polluting our concentration is a huge issue today.
Focus your mind with rational values.
Fabulous NOLA. My in-law was a Judge in the 4th circuit appellate court. He was a Democrat 💙
This was a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation about all the things (some going back hundreds of years) that got us to where we are today, with Trump still having a chance to be re-elected. However, one topic was left out: The thing that could have stopped Trump in his tracks (as contrasted with laying the foundation for his rise). That thing: A Functioning (Not Corrupt) Criminal Justice System. A bunch of years ago, Bill Maher had Preet Bharara (former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York) on his show and asked him why Trump had never been prosecuted / convicted in the decades leading up to his run for the presidency. Preet gave a joke of an answer, when he said "My bad." If you read "Hiding in Plain Sight" and "They Knew" by Sarah Kendzior, you will learn how massively corrupt America's judicial system is beneath its image as the protector of America from crime (including international crime). Had Trump been treated like the criminal he was for decades, he NEVER would have been able to succeed as a politician... might not even been given the opportunity to star in The Apprentice. Rumor is that Trump played the FBI (by giving them information on the Mafia) in exchange for them leaving him alone. In doing this, Trump could threaten the FBI with exposing their "sources and methods". I strongly urge Lawrence O'Donnell to interview Sarah Kendzior (who has been on MSNBC in the past but not recently) on the subject of who Merrick Garland is (which goes to why Garland hasn't prosecuted any of the seditious members of Congress in addition to why he waited 2 years before investigating Trump) as well as the overall subject of corruption in America. Her two books are real eye openers. And she has a Substack newsletter too. Thanks for listening.
West Wing was one of my all time favorites and the Last Word is my favorite MSNBC show, but O’Donnell’s answer to the last question was a lame cop out; still kudos to Anderson for his centuries long historical sweep
Well, were all waiting for you to write the next episode.
@@acedrumminman haha
I've not been into politics until i voted for obama ❤. Now we MUST defeat djt
Blacks, like myself, love Trump. If you vote against Trump then you vote to keep Black women like me in poverty. Wake up. Stop being brainwashed.
Great explanation of how we got here…so you answered the how.
The question that was not answered is why we got here - what is going on with the American population to embrace this? Many have addressed this, but Lawrence’s and Kurt’s perspective would be helpful.
Vote blue 💙
I promise I WILL; for America I will vote BLUE.🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊
"American credulity." That's very good, and aptly explains a lot about us.
Speak for yourself. Only.
@@vipermad358Please don't speak at all.
Try from the 1950's - or even way back in the 1920's, when Herbert Hoover became the willing handmaiden to corporate greed in America, and helped tip America into the Great Depression.
Calvin Coolidge had his hand on greed as well. He started propping up the Stock Market that was actually failing.
@@nancychandler3673 That was way back in 1893. Cleveland had nothing to do with the 1929 crash on Wall Street, unless you're referring to his policy changes some 36 years earlier. He did turn strongly conservative during his second, non-consecutive term in the White House.
@@WWZenaDoThanks. I edited my comment
Hoover was as anti-capitalist statist who helped cause the GD. Your "greed" is religious blather. Capitalism is about rational ambition and self-respect.
@@TeaParty1776 Wrong. From Smithsonian: "Hoover never accepted the notion that capitalism was dead, or that central planning was the answer. He insisted on private enterprise as the mainspring of development and social progress, and capitalism as the one “ism” that would preserve individual liberty and initiative."
From Governing: "We tend to think of Hoover as a stiff and unresourceful man who failed to respond adequately to the coming of the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression. True enough..."
Candidate selection by primary has turned out to be a huge mistake. The most extreme 10% of both parties is picking the candidates we vote for in the general election.
You need to consider the obscene and worsening economic and thus existential inequality that defines the US as a major factor contributing to Trumpism and authoritarianism. The growing sense of injustice engendered by inequality leads to the rage which fuels Trumpism.
They vote for the policies that exacerbate inequality
A large segment of his followers are well off. They see through his con, but they don't care because he serves their interests and fuels their anti-democratic leanings.
The "inequality" is not the problem. It's the American dream was vanquished by Clinton in doubling corporate tax rates simultaniously with initiating free trade laws with countries such as Mexico, Ireland, and China who had only 15% tax rates vs Clintons 35% rate. Shipping costs were down to $1,000 per container in the late 90s. Tax was 60% discounted. Labor was 90% discounted. Why wouldn't they all leave?
There are now HALF as many companies in America listed on the NYSE than 1999. HALF.
O'Donnell is such a smart man. Kurt Anderson's not too shabby, either.
Great show!
It's not that I disagree. It's that the year Donald first visited Russia was the year his name was first floated as a potential presidential candidate. Putin uses him because he inherited him.
Trump's Russian ties start far earlier than his visit.
I cannot recommend enough Craig Unger's American Kompromat for a well-researched presentation of the timeline and connections.
Thanks for sharing your emotions.
@@TeaParty1776 Who said anything about emotions?
@@TeaParty1776 ah. I see the problem: you don't know the definition of "emotion." The thing you don't understand is the thing that has power over you. It would be well to keep that in mind.
@@ashleyreeb It was sneaked in.
Like those he admires, his personal traumas and envies have collectively turned into world traumas. They are all Heathcliff and Frankenstein, and Shaka Zulu, and no matter our deep beliefs or non-beliefs, WE must now fight to shine the lights of wellness, love and spiritual life across all landS.
We should not forget the underlying unhappiness of the average working guy or gal, whose needs have been ignored by both parties for far too long. Trump released the valve on the pressure cooker and we are in this terrible place now, a real life horror story.
they don't vote very much and when they do vote they consistently vote against their economic interests - working class folks should have voted for Bernie, not Trump - they have to own it
This is a cop out that assholes use to support assholes.
I AM your average working guy/gal who is surrounded by average guys/gals and the ones who I know that support trump were assholes before him. He just gave them permission to be louder about it.
Enough of the excuses.
Ignored indeed, and made more vulnerable to insanity by the clickbait thoughtlessness and cookie analysis encouraged by greedy Crony Corporatists with unregulated social platforms!
Please explain your comment, as it certainly does not match up with imperial data on certain elective periods. There are huge differences in social policies.
@@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401 As a life long Dem, I can understand the unhappiness of an ordinary person with the college educated/elites, the advances of modern technology and the impact on those who just do not understand the new world of work around them. This doesn't mean Dems have done nothing......in fact Dems have done far more than the R's. Dem communication needs to be improved significantly so that people can recognize the things that have been done for them.
What about the Lincoln/Douglas debates?
Who's the media executive that made "The News" entertainment? Modern news is the same as Seinfeld or Dancing With the Stars, it's entertainment and needs ratings.
It seems like, to a 77 year old, that several forces together as well as the media responses led to the MAGA worshippers. I think that after Vietnam the US had a major economy and employment crisis. Defense contractors that used to make and sell home appliances for instances lost defense contracts and started relocating to other countries where labor would be much cheaper and maybe more trainable more cheaply, as well as facilities less costly. So many in US were left unemployed or underemployed. Meanwhile Nixon had nixed the successful social programs of the Johnson era, insisting that he pulled himself up by his bootstraps and so could anyone else. That was a big mistake that negatively affected all races in the US. During Johnson Era we could walk across the street and see a competent therapist for $5. Now it is over $120 with insurance coverage. That's one example of the social net breaking. So drugs became a goto for mental health. Led to more employment problems and people's ability to solve their problems constructively, vote intelligently, and stay healthy enough to hold a job. Then they had just self reliance left and government became an impedence to that. Someone now can become homeless overnight literally and have to wait several months for a decision as to if help is available to them. In meantime they have lived in the street, out of their cars, sofa surfing, relying on generosity of religious institutions to feed and clothe them. The part if society that stays afloat looks down on them, has their IRA's, hasn't a clue what happened or why. You see, the more you have the more you get here. Tbe less you have the less you can get. Regardless of your skills or motivation. Social programs can be managed to fill the gap, and economic planning by government is essential to have a healthy job market. I voted for Ralph Nader because he was stressing the importance of the people as employees and consumers as the basis of a good economy and a healthy nation.
A few days ago the Dion song, Abraham, Martin & John showed up on my TH-cam. I heard it again as it's one of the better 'listens' in the music world. Then I thought, "Our country hasn't gotten better or worse". 😪
Salesmanship + anti-intellectualism = branding.
I thought Graydon Carter, Vanity Fair Magazine, came up with "short-fingered vulgarian." Maybe he got it from Spy Magazine? Great interview.
"Spy" was the first publication to print "short fingered vulgarian" about Trump. I remember it. Spy was pretty good for snark back in the day.
Andersen was an editor at Spy, along with Greydon Carter
I think - you get to where you are - wherever the hell we all are via 100,000s of others. And we are not "there" very long. 😊
I am the greatest me I can be at any given moment. Hopefully.
2005-2024. What was or is the problem, world?
Andy Griffith in - A face in the crowd 1957-foretold Trump
Indeed, an excellent movie.
Read "Fantasyland"...full of little "wow" revelations. So much of the reality show fascination, cult of looking-young-forever fixation is key to understanding American culture in the modern era.
I see some ancient TV reruns from the 60s occasionally and popular sports and entertainment figures were often featured on family-centric sitcoms of that era. Guys like Frank Gifford acted as if they were ordinary, humble dudes rather than celebrity demigods. I guess that was the socially accepted expectation of the day. But, wow, have celebrities changed! They are over entitled public A-holes now, behaving like they are above all the rules of decorum. I cite one Kanye West ( he of too many name changes ) as an example. Trump, of course, is the worst case study of people who got more famous just for being rich and famous. It's just a tawdry spectacle of nihilistic waste. That's what people are shown as examples of celebrity now. Nothing there to be proud of.
True.
Who a society esteems, remunerates the most highly and admires tells you what their priorities and value systems are.
The boastful persona adopted by Ali was inspired by the professional wrestler Gorgeous George. Ali saw its potential to fill the arenas for his fights. This archetype was already well-established by then and known as 'The Heel". That's who 45 is, a pro-wrestling villain come to life.
I remember as a very young person when Roone Arledge at ABC News realized money could be made from “news.” Journalistic integrity became secondary to getting eyes on the news show to sell ads.
How disgraceful to Mohammad Ali who really owned what he said.
Wikipedia records this about el-Sisi… El-Sisi has been nicknamed "the Mexican" by Egyptians critical of his leadership, owing to the similarity between his name and the word "El-Meksisi."
I believe when Jimmy Swaggert openly condemned Jerry Lee Lewis and Mickey Gillies he opened the door to abandoning the Bible and spreading hate to good church goers.
And what a sinner he turned out to be, also!!! Like ALL of us!
@@kayfitzgerald309 Except he made a massive amount of money using the name of Jesus, and casting stones at others.. We didn't all do that. We shall see at the Great Throne... Personally I don't care, but since that occurred millions of people feel justified and in fact it is their duty to be nasty to their neighbors in the name of Jesus.
@allandalegibson1194 agreed!! I personally follow Dr. Charles Stanley, I have for years!! He went to be with Our Father last year, 😢 but he's on every Sunday morning, where I live, also here on TH-cam 🩷
GOD BLESS YOU 💜💜💜
@@kayfitzgerald309 Stanley does stick to the Bible for sure.
Our Lord Littlehands
There should be a civics lesson and test before you can vote, just like you have to do for many other privileges.
Watching this book festival discussion on the day trump hawks his "trump Bible". Oh the irony.
Great to see these two boomers and an audience, though small also of boomers
because they all have historical reach lacking, for example, in millenials.
"I wouldn't b where
I am
if i hadn't met kurt" - CJ
Ostrichlike the culture of I has become the culture of the eye sightless and buried in the sand.
A totally subjective response to the points made by Lawrence: ❤
No such thing as an accident. Cause and effect. We make choices, shit happens.
Lost all semblance of journalism. Corporations own everything including PBS, which would have removed Trump at the beginning, but chose to make Trump equal to the Democratic electors.
mayb e we should NOT allow the general mob or public to vote for their candidates. Maybe you need new very hard restrictions or qualifications. Such as intelligence, age, civics knowledge and people who are only US born citizens, not just "citizens". Rich people should never be allowed to vote. People who are in cults should not be allowed to vote. People who cannot pass a general knowledge on who and what the candidates are cannot vote. No voting just because "you heard that name before" thing.
I've been calling It the Clown
"Our Lord Littlehands" since 2016.
Such ridicule is still ad hominem nonsense, not relevant parody such as political caricature in cartoons!
How does this explain the worldwide rise of Trump like autocrats? What of the change in the economy since the 60s worldwide?
its fear - a wave of fear swept over the planet - like a virus
It's not "or" but rather "yes and". Dualistic thinking causes infighting and weakens our position.
I thought rush Limbaugh was the 3rd anti-Christ 😊
Boasting is equivalent to Pump&Dump Stocks.
As an Englishman, well it really is too bad, too bad. A bloody shame.
Well you English had centuries to screw up entire continents and turn races of people into slaves, so your observation is also a bloody shame.
100% liberal executives of reality show television, Lawrence says. Apparently, he isn’t aware of Mark Burnett, the creator of the very first reality show, Survivor. Burnett is hardly a liberal, lol.
Book: Playing with Fire.
..all the world is a stage..
The William F. Buckley v. Gore Vidal debates were disgusting.
It only happened because Vidal was so vain that he could not pass up an opportunity to mug for the camera.
Our media still does this kind of thing when they compare/contrast Conservatives and Liberals, they make it
seem like all Liberals are defective in some way - minorities or gay ... and the media has run with this for many
decades. And over time this has stuck and is why white in America have moved over to the Conservative
party - because they feel like all the government only serves minorities and illegal aliens, which is ridiculous.
They have been brainwashed, mostly by Fox.
At 3:26, I knew you would have to say Ted Williams.
Ted Williams is the benchmark. I don’t think his character has ever been matched or surpassed.
The Bush family with Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan, we could handle it back then but now the monster is out of control now.
43:40 sooo close… Lawrence… but you had to ingratiate and bring yourself into it, after just saying there’s no time to waste 😢
“ neurotics live in the castles psychotics build “ ( author l do not know)
Please read Marshall McLuhan or Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, to better understand these issues.
He blames a black man for the WW111 Trump but won't have Mike Tyson on to tell his story
without a cage no trump
Nixon Humphrey debate?
Waiting for you to call out Faux News.
There WAS NEVER a Humphrey-Nixon DEBATE! WTF are you talking about?
From the 60s to feminism to lbgt to maga. That was the road.
gender equality ia good for society - good for everyone
@@Merriwether-w8k agreed. But feminism, lbgt are not about equality. They are about equity, group conformity, power.
No they aren't. You are not an expert - clearly - we are moving from a Judeo Christain society to a science and math based society - there is no scientific basis to discriminate against women of queer people in any way - they are homo sapiens - same as you - traditionally babies get their DNA from mom and ad in a 50/50 split - there are now babies with DNA from 3 parents - you are slow to adapt to this new world@@VonKirda
Why isn't anyone looking at what is likely a way to move the peoples money into the pockets of the already wealthy in the world.
Muhammad Ali WAS great… trump is a weasel.
tyea be careful with balance with trump going insane with hate
Watching liberals blame Cassius Clay and African American culture on the rise of Trump is pretty funny. And also subtly racist 😂. I’m loving the part where he’s like “if only they hadn’t started doing end zone dances at football games we’d have the appropriate modesty as a country”
I find the curent modern day WH Press Corps to be lazy, having a "herd/pack mentality", play off each other and usually go for the cheap 7 second sound bite and "on-the-one hand-on-the-other" false equivalancy argument rather than illuminating on any issue.
When does Kurt get to speak?😅
Yep, too much "democracy" doesn't work.
We don't "choose"candidates for doctors, engineers, scientists, statisticians, policemen, firefighters, pilots, by popular vote.
Can this relate to the bicameral mind? Rumor has it that manifested as speaking to the gods, etc.
Manifested in democracy in Athens?
It’s an angle.
But , Ali proved it .
You've simultaneously hit the nail on the head, and missed the point entirely.
??? O’Donnell can really fillibuster.
By your reply, I imagine you were not a voter in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected. I didn't vote for him, I didn't agree with him, but he was far more competent than DJT. Further, it is the decline of objectivity in the media, that is the greater problem, one created when the profit motive was enabled to ignore the community motive purpose.
Reagan tore up the social safety net. Until his presidency, the hoboes, single men who rode the freight cars, moving from season to season, were the only homeless people. As a result of Reagan's destruction of public programs, women and children became homeless.
Race is a spectrum as well...