Thanks a ton Paul. That’s almost completely unlocked my understanding of downstream O2 patterns, oxygen storage and catalyst efficiency. Best 30 minutes I’ve spent on TH-cam in a while. Keep up the great content and keep on serving Jesus!
serving Jesus is all that will truly matter, I can't take anything with me when I leave here and I long to hear "well done my good and faithful servant" Thank you my friend
I have been following both of your TH-cam channels closely and have noticed that you have been struggling with how the new Wide band O2 sensors work. Well I managed to get my hands on an article from MOTOR MAGAZINE, and in the JULY 2013 subscription they have a very detailed description and operation of the new dual cell Air Fuel sensors. This article describes the different circuits and what the normal voltage levels are on the Pump circuit varying above and below 2.5 V, Reference circuit 2.5 V, and Sensing circuit 3 V. To find out if the sensor is reading rich or lean if the voltage is above 2.5 V it is lean, below 2.55 the system is rich, and this is on the pumping part of the circuit. So the new stoic is 2.5 and voltage should oscillate above and below this set point. This is of course opposite of a typical narrow band. This can be measured on an O-scope with out the use of a scanner. The pages are on 27- 37. Hope this will help.
I was thinking that, as the cat. still needs the rich lean swing to reduce all three pollutants. On monitoring the swing though, I wouldn't spend the money either. I just do not see the need to do it. If fuel trims look good and there is no code, then I'm not worried about it. On the flip side, if I have an AF sensor code, I can do the checks I did in this video to ID a bad sensor. So again, amperage measurement isn't needed. Thanks for your input my friend.
DEAR SIR, WE LOVE YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU INDICATED COMPARING THE GOOD WORKING ONE A/F SENSOR TO THE ONE THAT HAVE ISSUE. YOU ARE AMAZING. THANKS A MILLION. MAY GOD BLESS YOU.
i like to watch your videos on silent so i can practice...i wish i could close my eyes or ignore the title because it gives it away haha...but with your teachings and following your videos i can to the conclusion rather quickly that this was a bad upstream o2 sensor...i needed to turn the volume on to confirm because i needed to see what tests you were doing...i remember that 3.3v is lambda for toyotas...and seeing how one bank was right around 3.3 and the other was higher i could tell that it was stuck biased lean...i told myself a good test would be to add propane to see if bank 1 a/f sensor voltage would go down to below 3.3v and it didnt even budge...at that point it was a nice fast easy call on a bad upstream bank 1 sensor...thank you for all your excellent teachings/videos...happy thanksgiving to you and your family Paul
Hi dan , I'm a toyota tech myself and just watch this video and I had the same questions you've been asking your self . 1 test you could do is put 2 AA 3 volts battery's together and watch your processed data change by changing , rich , lean ie positive 1 way and negative the other this will show circuit integrity . still great video
Thank you Paul your videos are clearly explained im learning alot on your videos at 50years old i want more knowledge on trouble shooting wish i could take a course with you.buying your book next week.greetings from Puerto Rico
From what I understand, wideband O2s actually have a standard-type O2 sensor within them, and they have some kind of electro-chemical pump to make that O2 sensor read a specific reading. The computer then calculates the air/fuel ratio based on how much current it needs to send to the pump to keep the reading stable. Wikipedia has a good article on it.
from trinidad great videos. scan tools really expensive here .it's greatly appreciated when you use the test light and other simple tools to solve problems. .excellent work
Thank you very much! I wish I had a time frame for each section. I want to keep doing case studies too so my time is split. I have so much on my plate its hard to keep up. Working on Section 8 now. Send me a PM i want to talk to you in private
Paul, 1)Pico Scope sells milliamp clamp meter to test. That is costly cost 1000 dollar. Not worth. 2)You can swap the wide band from one bank to another bank to see if the same problem exist in other bank. This would be a quick tip to resolve this case study, i know u want to explain to other about how this works and diagnose. 3) not sure if u remember me, i have sent an email to you couple of years ago about how to test wide band 02 sensor with digital meters, u can use that as refernce..
In order for the ECU to maintain the 3.3V, the amperage is monitored in that circuit. I believe that you can measure the amperage with a micro amp clamp that is available from autonerdz. Once again, great information!
Hey Paul there is something to try if you get another Toyota Lexus at school or on a mobile call and that is when you set your pico 4425 up to the air fuel sensor using one channel per air fuel sensor connect positive channel to 3.3 volt wire and the ground lead to the 3 volt wire and set the voltage range from 0 to 500 my. Raise the rpm and you will see the voltage difference between the 3.3 volt wire and the 3 volt wire it will look somewhat similar to a 0-1 oxygen sensor. The pcm is pumping current into the sensor to get the mixture back to stochiometric. Take care Danner
This goes for BOSCH A/F sensors: Lambda = 1 equals 0 mA current flow within the pump cell, current flow above 1mA indicates a lean mixture and negative current flow shows a rich mixture.
I TOOK THE L1 TEST SATURDAY I SURE WISH I WOULD HAVE WATCHED YOUR WIDEBAND SENSOR VIDEO BEFORE I TOOK THE TEST I THINK THINGS WOULD HAVE WENT BETTER. I ALSO STUDIED THE TYPE 3 SYSTEM INSTEAD OF THE TYPE 4 SYSTEM. DARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol, I didn't even see that. it is an old wooden podium that students throughout the years have written on. I don't even pay attention to it anymore. sorry about that.
CANT WAIT FOR PART 2, hey paul im on your chapter #3 lecture and man, everything i wasnt clear about in your book is crystal clear now, thats great how i can watch each lecture and make notes on my E-BOOK '' btw i printed a hard copy of ur book'' and i suggest anybody that bought this book should invest in paul's lectures unless you totally understand it.anyways im on lecture 5 now i know there is only 7 out, about how often will the rest of the chapters be released?
Might just have been bitten by a wideband O2... Did quite some O2, but didn't got across the wideband before. Got the LTFT fixed on a 5 on ALL rpm trim map values and a fixed lean (p0171). Creating huge leak didn't really do anything (absolutely minor) on voltage and amps and since you can't really measure on the pins for checking the circuit, I condemned the sensor. Since data is so different and I failed to check the STFT on testing, I do have the itchy feeling of little uncertainty. Next time I see one (and I will, VW is putting them in all the time) I won't be in doubt again!
Ive noticed a lot of these recently, most of them have an extra wire coming from the ecu side of the harness to the sensors multiplug. aparantly its a voltage sensing wire that the ecu uses with known resistances to calculate amps. if this is the case you would need to be careful when repairing the loom or connectors
www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/95805/oxygen-sensor-heaters-how-do-you-know-if-that-heater-fault-code-is-real "When the sensor is first installed and connected, the PCM is commanded to read the resistance in the (cold) heater circuit to know the calibration of that resistor. It will then use that resistance value to calculate the sensor’s actual temperature under all conditions. Even with a calibration resistor, the heater’s resistance varies by a few hundredths of an ohm from one AFR sensor to another. That’s why the PCM and the AFR sensor heater must be calibrated to each other. That’s also why there is no heater resistance specification, so measuring heater resistance is not a good way to confirm a good/bad oxygen sensor heater. In addition, that’s the other reason we’re told not to repair an AFR sensor’s wiring harness; the resistance might change. When replacing an air/fuel ratio sensor, you’ll need a scan tool capable of commanding the PCM to relearn the sensor heater’s resistance. On some models, simply clearing the trouble codes and turning off the MIL will do the job. Some scan tools won’t enter the clear-code mode if no codes exist. In that case, just turn on the ignition and disconnect any convenient sensor to create a code. On some models the relearn must be done with the sensor at ambient temperature. On many GM models it can be done with the sensor hot, and the PCM will relearn the real value at the next cold-start."
Thanks for the video, great tip using propane and monitoring sensors... I suppose a test drive and going into fuel enrichment mode would do the same too? Anyhoo. I was using my PICO (recent purchase, still learning the ropes) on my 2013 Elantra with a wideband nernst cell sensor. It is a 5 wire and one is labeled current. I couldn't separate the one wire to put my amp clamp around it, so tried putting it around all the wires out of curiosity, no beans. Keep you posted on my findings when I get a good tool to cut the factory tape around the 5 wires without nicking the wires them selves. I suspect to see a similar waveform as a zirconia sensor, except instead of 0 - 1V, it'll be negative and positive milliamps with the same kind of sin wave for the lack of a better description.
ECU uses a detection ckt to detect change and strength of current flow, then outputs a voltage signal in relationship to O2 content. AFR @ stioch does not produce current flow, voltage = 3.3v. Rich mix produces neg current flow, voltage below 3.3v. Lean mix creates pos flow, voltage above 3.3v. IMO if you watched AFR current it would mimic an O2 sensor in its operation which may provide some diagnostic usefulness. I haven’t personally used this method due to the cost of the micro-amp clamp.
Hey Paul, another great vid. Though I have to say, for a DIY guy like me who just fixes his own and my friends cars, a tool like the snap-on scope or picoscope is just too expensive. I have to rely on my trusty fluke multimeter and cheap OBDII chinese rip-offs and some "dirty tricks". Like in this case I guess I'd swap the sensors and find out if one's broke. I love your clean and 'electrical' approach, gives one much more confidence in finding the problem. D'you know of any cheap scopes for me?
Hey Paul, I'm the frustrated but never scared new subscriber..i have a 2000 rx300 that had p1150 b2s1,with same3 reasons as p1130 in video-since i had sensor replaced 6000 miles ago-i refused 2believe sensor was bad again..tried 2get help for 3weeks online, will DIY.. and cant afford a shop.. kept being told test heater circuit,which i did n was ok..then told test +B n HTL, but could never get an answer if that was the circuit in sensor or harness..or wire colors..FINALLY ran across ur videos, so i cleaned maf,(no pocket screwdriver) changed air filter, replaced b2s1 and reset CEL with scanner.. BUT, I'm so lost.-at idle 750RPM..TP-10.2%..load-14.1..MAF- 3.2 temp-187 TA-15..IAT-108..ECT-194..stft b1- 0 ltft..b1- 2.3...stft b2- 0. ltft- 2.8..What am i missing?? have only driven 40miles since,,so I'm just waiting for my CEL to come back on..do i need to pull etcs n ef1 fuse? Kam? Ugghh.
It's not uncommon for aftermarket parts to fail. Switch your two front oxygen sensors then clear the codes and drive it. Are they the same length sensor harness?
I am rereading your question and I'm really not sure what you're asking me now? What is your current problem? those scan data numbers look good. Is it still setting a fault code?
I noticed w/car at idle the b2stft and b1stft is staying 0..and i thought that was a problem..so today when i started driving i watched n saw the stft for b1&2 constanly at -0.8 to 0 while ltft for b1&2 was adjusting to keep the stft inline,,,i remembered you saying that was the job of ltft as long as its not over 10%..no code yet..info w/car doctor app..but on the torque lite app, it doesnt read my bank2s1 at all ,,it says no data..thats why im thinking there is still a p1150 code but it just hasnt showed yet cuz i havent hit 40 cycles, driven enough or things werent reset like ECU, ETCS, EF1???
Fail,really? i thought a Denso would last more than 6k miles..i didnt think of swapping to check it, but if it ever happens again i will definitely do that 1st cuz i spent 3weeks doing different test as a newbie..even tho i originally bought the Denso 234-9009 sensor 2yrs ago n had it installed, they sent me a free replacement since it only lasted 6k miles..and i installed it myself this time..no CEL so far but not sure I've driven enough yet..
Changed the o2 today and no change in eratic fuel trims, I plan to test the MAP but can't easily get to it or the wiring so ill hook up VCDS later. I think I can account for another variable regarding the propane in the intake test, the IAT could initally mistake the cold gas for cold rushing air leading to the PCM adding even more fuel which is what happend to me. So many variables so little time :-/
if you wrap a wire around your clamp, for instance, low amp wires. when you get a reading, divide it buy the number of wraps. and you have your reading.
Hey, Paul. If you don't have propane, could disconnecting a hose creating a lean condition and look for an increase in voltage prove that you don't have a vacuum leak as well? Thank you in advance for your answer.
This is just technical & really doesnt' matter in the practical world of diagnostics, but if 2 of the wires from these 4 wire sensors go into what's called an 'Instrumentation OP AMP' configuration in the ECM, then you would never see a difference between the inputs or change in the voltage levels. It's the job of this config to eliminate all noise that is common between the + and - inputs (called common mode rejection or CCMR) which is why I can see this would be used in such a electrically noisy environment as a vehicle. It's just the nature of Op Amps in the Instrumentation amp configuration to behave this way. I would guess the 4 wires are: 2 for power (no common chassis ground) 2 for the signal which would be + and - outputs of the sensor to the + and- inputs to the instrumentation OP AMP in the computer. All very interesting...
Hi Paul, I have a fuel trim problem, the vehicle a 2003 VW uses a wide band o2 a P1190 code was set. LTFT was +36 but STFT fluctuates between -55 and +42. So it's up and down I was thinking a bad o2 so whilst STFT was in the - I let propane/butane mix into the intake and it went +99 then stalled! I expected to see a - number with an introduction of gas. So im thinking a bad o2...have you came across these symptoms before? I was worried the cylinders had over fuelled and bent rods but all is OK
I have a question. Can a wideband sensor cause a heater sensor to show lean. Even after replacing sensors 2 on each banks scan tool shows both o2 sensors not ran and code P2270 showing lean/rich on bank 1 and rich/lean on bank 2. Could it be sensors 1 (afr) causing this? Please any help would be appreciated Thanks Mario
Hey paul, great video. I have your premium account and watched all you O2 sensors and fuel trims classes. Is it the only one about wideband sensor? Why didn't you try to measure current with an amp clamp on the signal wire? maybe it would have given a better result than measuring voltage
Because they only have about a 4ma swing in current. I don't have anything that can measure that low of amperage. Shoot, I could fart and make that much myself lol
Could you unplug a coil to trigger a rich condition and also create a vacuum leak to trigger a lean condition to see the sensor change without having to add propane.
I suggest propane due to the potential for fire. Propane is a gas and the flame will go out. You start using liquid fuel and get a backfire, you are going to have a problem on your hands. Just snap the throttle rapidly, it is a better test anyway. No only will you get fuel enrichment, you'll get fuel cut too during the decel so you can check both extremes of the sensor
hi paul, great video! was wondering whether if possible you could do a video on nox sensors? i have a fault with a bmw e92 320i petrol and need to learn the ins and out of how it works and how to test etc however cant find any decent info on them? thanks
+ScannerDanner hi paul sorry its not a knock sensor its a nitrogen oxide sensor on the exhaust system, basically a stand alot unit that coomunicates with engine ecu via CAN network to adjust lean conditions at low engine speeds
If i don’t have propane could i use starter fluid to inject thru the intake tube? I heard starter fluid is more flammable and more explosive than propane.
(hi Paul I have a question ) open band sensor consists of 1- Pump cell( two terminals connected to ECM) (and 2- Nernst cell( with another 2 terminals connected to ECM ?and finally 3- Heater circuit and( it connected with another 2 wires to ECM) >>>>>>is that right ?? ? actually I am not sure!!!! is the wide band oxygen sensor connected to ECM via 6 wires ?if that right the shown wiring diagram have 4 wires not 6 wires is that means this sensor is Narrow band oxygen sensor sorry I am very confused. your feedback please thanks . Mohamed El Shamy
It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there. Paul Danner (ScannerDanner) www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
p0174and/penting p0171 when truck start s it says it is in open loop am going to change gas filter truck was seeding for 4-5months last year and i had this code for 2manths after a got it but more concern with cam sencer wireing says may have a short or ground problem it did go away and now it came back do i take nective cable off and check both sencers how cam i find this F 250 5,4 is there a way i can email u some numbers from code reader if it will help u 1st it is a gas problem 2nd p340 cam
fyi, i would be careful about calling Toyota's A/F sensors as wideband o2. There is a difference between Toyota's AF sensor vs. to like Honda or Subaru's 5 wire wide band.
Thanks in advance for the video. Im currently working on 99 lexus e300california emmisions. Comolaint was excessive fuel consumption I found bad af sensor on bank 1. Replaced old plugs with denso original found intake boot had a tear in it replaced failling injector on cylinder 6 aswell as bank 2 injector o rings were leaking. Cleaned dirty maf. No im getting p0171 bank one while bank 2 St and lt look ok in idle after i reset computer. But the thing is that after i drive for 5 minutes the trims on bank 2 max out they still respond to snap trottle and propane but they stay maxed out only after a drive. Any guidance would be helpful. Right now im making a smoke machine to test for leaks.
Hi... i have a P1176 - o2 (lambda) correction behind Catalyst. Control reached limit reached - intermitent. What can i do with to inspect and understant this code? I have VCDS and a standard obd scanner. HeLP
1. Hot engine, force the downstream O2 to react the ratio changes (decel fuel cut mode and snap throttle tests) 2. Make sure there are no exhaust leaks upstream of that sensor (downstream)
Hey paul I've been reading alot of articles on wideband O2 sensors and I think this article gives the most thorough explanation along with scientific background. So a wideband is a narrowband O2 sensor that has an added chamber with what is known as a "electrochemical current pump" which can drive the mixture either way to achieve stoich in the sensor itself. The gas enters the reference chamber by diffusion and is compared to reference air on one side and a voltage is produced just like in a narrow band which follows the same rules where high voltage is rich and low voltage is lean. A computer controlled circuit then monitors that voltage and decides what type of polarity and amount of current to apply to that sample of gas to get it to create a voltage of 450mv by either consuming fuel or consuming oxygen. I think it is difficult/impossible to monitor it because there is a fast switching between polarity as well as current. Here is the website I found. Very in depth www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
The wideband topic is still very clustered together for some reason, its a loonngg story but here's the short. The O2 ion pump style ZrO2 5 wire with calibration resistor in plug is what's called a German Broadband (LSU), the operation of which you loosely described, which is required for leanburn strat engines. Complex electronics with Op-Amps, ref voltage and a specific I.C (CJ136) operate the ion pump to measure lambda 0.65 to Infinity. The non ion pumping ZrO2 4 wire with basic plug is what I call a Japan Wideband. It uses a voltage bias across a standard ZrO2 cell, eg. Toyota 3.3v and 3.0v. These voltages change potential slightly under various AFR and complex electronics, again Op-Amps, ref voltages but using diffrent I.C, delicately maintain the bias volatge to measure actual AFR. Japan AFR are simpler and can only measure Lambda 0.8 to 1.6, so the LSU is still the ultimate lambda probe!
+Jack Gazzard P.S. however they both end up as a calculated voltage PID's 0-5v where the voltage value at lambda 1.0 is specified by OEM (eg. Toyota 3.3v, Hyundai 1.4v). Maybe that's where some confusion comes from?
Hello greetings from Mexico have a question I have a 2000 toyota sienna with a / f sensor everything works fine on my scanner but it consumes enough gasoline in the city gives me 15 miles per gallon which also entered to being fast roads, on page fueleconomy.com says I must give 19 combined. In escanner switch to close loop well but when I go 70 miles and decelerated switch to open loop drive voltage a / f sensor only goes to 3.8v 3.9v is normal? I used the scanner on other cars with a / f sensor but 2005, 2006 model and I get 4.9V. What sensor controls the open loop drive because slowing going to reach 50 miles per hour switch to closed loop this is normal? thanks in advance for your help very good your video channel follow him are very interesting
rough idle, but not dying, detonations whie reving, high fuel consumption Told client to buy new sparkplug wires cause old ones were cracked and throwing sparks arround them near the distributor so detonations may be from there. But not sure about the O2. There is the dilemma. Good or bad? have data on it, but pcmnotclosing loop. Checked for other o2's, but got none, only that one.
Dan could you help me figure out my afr on my 06 CTS, it has a carbed SBC with a/f sensor hooked up and reading with otc3111pr0 with the MA PID. What should it be reading for Cruise,and power mode to be safe and efficient. If you check out my vids you will see what I built. Please help I,ve not dealt with this modern stuff much. Cruise now reads 0.031ma Thank You and watched alot of your videos Very informative.
Hello greetings from Mexico have a question I have a 2000 toyota sienna with a / f sensor everything works fine on my scanner but it consumes enough gasoline in the city gives me 15 miles per gallon which also entered to being fast roads, on page fueleconomy.com says I must give 19 combined. In escanner switch to close loop well but when I go 70 miles and decelerated switch to open loop drive voltage a / f sensor only goes to 3.8v 3.9v is normal? Neither of the two have the same sensor readings close loop drive. I used the scanner on other cars with a / f sensor but 2005, 2006 model and I get 4.9V. What sensor controls the open loop drive because slowing going to reach 50 miles per hour switch to closed loop this is normal? thanks in advance for your help very good your video channel follow him are very interesting
in the UK all I can see of this video is a black cat in a coal cellar at midnight. black screen no video. shame because they are usually the best around.
You have so many video on O2 sensor working, but you dont succesful in making single video which help to understand if a oxygen sensor is working properly or not, inspecially the case where car ecu not give check light. Plz make videos simple.
Thanks a ton Paul. That’s almost completely unlocked my understanding of downstream O2 patterns, oxygen storage and catalyst efficiency. Best 30 minutes I’ve spent on TH-cam in a while.
Keep up the great content and keep on serving Jesus!
serving Jesus is all that will truly matter, I can't take anything with me when I leave here and I long to hear "well done my good and faithful servant"
Thank you my friend
One thing I notice on this video is that the O2S2 B1 was always rich while the lean condition was on! This would help as well on the diagnose process.
I have been following both of your TH-cam channels closely and have noticed that you have been struggling with how the new Wide band O2 sensors work. Well I managed to get my hands on an article from MOTOR MAGAZINE, and in the JULY 2013 subscription they have a very detailed description and operation of the new dual cell Air Fuel sensors. This article describes the different circuits and what the normal voltage levels are on the Pump circuit varying above and below 2.5 V, Reference circuit 2.5 V, and Sensing circuit 3 V. To find out if the sensor is reading rich or lean if the voltage is above 2.5 V it is lean, below 2.55 the system is rich, and this is on the pumping part of the circuit. So the new stoic is 2.5 and voltage should oscillate above and below this set point. This is of course opposite of a typical narrow band. This can be measured on an O-scope with out the use of a scanner. The pages are on 27- 37. Hope this will help.
I was thinking that, as the cat. still needs the rich lean swing to reduce all three pollutants.
On monitoring the swing though, I wouldn't spend the money either. I just do not see the need to do it. If fuel trims look good and there is no code, then I'm not worried about it. On the flip side, if I have an AF sensor code, I can do the checks I did in this video to ID a bad sensor. So again, amperage measurement isn't needed. Thanks for your input my friend.
It was the high fuel trim commands from the false lean that caused the high downstream O2 reading. Great question and you answered it yourself :-)
DEAR SIR,
WE LOVE YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU INDICATED COMPARING THE GOOD WORKING ONE A/F SENSOR TO THE ONE THAT HAVE ISSUE. YOU ARE AMAZING. THANKS
A MILLION. MAY GOD BLESS YOU.
i like to watch your videos on silent so i can practice...i wish i could close my eyes or ignore the title because it gives it away haha...but with your teachings and following your videos i can to the conclusion rather quickly that this was a bad upstream o2 sensor...i needed to turn the volume on to confirm because i needed to see what tests you were doing...i remember that 3.3v is lambda for toyotas...and seeing how one bank was right around 3.3 and the other was higher i could tell that it was stuck biased lean...i told myself a good test would be to add propane to see if bank 1 a/f sensor voltage would go down to below 3.3v and it didnt even budge...at that point it was a nice fast easy call on a bad upstream bank 1 sensor...thank you for all your excellent teachings/videos...happy thanksgiving to you and your family Paul
Hi dan , I'm a toyota tech myself and just watch this video and I had the same questions you've been asking your self .
1 test you could do is put 2 AA 3 volts battery's together and watch your processed data change by changing , rich , lean ie positive 1 way and negative the other this will show circuit integrity .
still great video
Hey man..please be more specific! If you have more metodes to check this tipe of sensor please make a video.
It is my friend. Current varies and scan data voltage values are processed and NOT live
Thank you Paul your videos are clearly explained im learning alot on your videos at 50years old i want more knowledge on trouble shooting wish i could take a course with you.buying your book next week.greetings from Puerto Rico
From what I understand, wideband O2s actually have a standard-type O2 sensor within them, and they have some kind of electro-chemical pump to make that O2 sensor read a specific reading. The computer then calculates the air/fuel ratio based on how much current it needs to send to the pump to keep the reading stable. Wikipedia has a good article on it.
LOVE THE VIDEO!!!!! CAN'T WAIT FOR PART 2!!! I ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN O2 AND AF SENSORS....
from trinidad great videos. scan tools really expensive here .it's greatly appreciated when you use the test light and other simple tools to solve problems. .excellent work
Thank you very much! I wish I had a time frame for each section. I want to keep doing case studies too so my time is split. I have so much on my plate its hard to keep up.
Working on Section 8 now. Send me a PM i want to talk to you in private
Paul,
1)Pico Scope sells milliamp clamp meter to test. That is costly cost 1000 dollar. Not worth.
2)You can swap the wide band from one bank to another bank to see if the same problem exist in other bank. This would be a quick tip to resolve this case study, i know u want to explain to other about how this works and diagnose.
3) not sure if u remember me, i have sent an email to you couple of years ago about how to test wide band 02 sensor with digital meters, u can use that as refernce..
In order for the ECU to maintain the 3.3V, the amperage is monitored in that circuit. I believe that you can measure the amperage with a micro amp clamp that is available from autonerdz. Once again, great information!
Hey Paul there is something to try if you get another Toyota Lexus at school or on a mobile call and that is when you set your pico 4425 up to the air fuel sensor using one channel per air fuel sensor connect positive channel to 3.3 volt wire and the ground lead to the 3 volt wire and set the voltage range from 0 to 500 my. Raise the rpm and you will see the voltage difference between the 3.3 volt wire and the 3 volt wire it will look somewhat similar to a 0-1 oxygen sensor. The pcm is pumping current into the sensor to get the mixture back to stochiometric. Take care Danner
This goes for BOSCH A/F sensors: Lambda = 1 equals 0 mA current flow within the pump cell, current flow above 1mA indicates a lean mixture and negative current flow shows a rich mixture.
It’s been well said...... “he is no fool to give what he CANNOT keep... to gain what he CANNOT lose!”
I TOOK THE L1 TEST SATURDAY I SURE WISH I WOULD HAVE WATCHED YOUR WIDEBAND SENSOR VIDEO BEFORE I TOOK THE TEST I THINK THINGS WOULD HAVE WENT BETTER. I ALSO STUDIED THE TYPE 3 SYSTEM INSTEAD OF THE TYPE 4 SYSTEM. DARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry Paul. Now you know what to expect
lol, I didn't even see that. it is an old wooden podium that students throughout the years have written on. I don't even pay attention to it anymore. sorry about that.
Thank you, I did the best I could with the info and tools I had. This video helped me too!
CANT WAIT FOR PART 2, hey paul im on your chapter #3 lecture and man, everything i wasnt clear about in your book is crystal clear now, thats great how i can watch each lecture and make notes on my E-BOOK '' btw i printed a hard copy of ur book'' and i suggest anybody that bought this book should invest in paul's lectures unless you totally understand it.anyways im on lecture 5 now i know there is only 7 out, about how often will the rest of the chapters be released?
Might just have been bitten by a wideband O2... Did quite some O2, but didn't got across the wideband before. Got the LTFT fixed on a 5 on ALL rpm trim map values and a fixed lean (p0171). Creating huge leak didn't really do anything (absolutely minor) on voltage and amps and since you can't really measure on the pins for checking the circuit, I condemned the sensor. Since data is so different and I failed to check the STFT on testing, I do have the itchy feeling of little uncertainty. Next time I see one (and I will, VW is putting them in all the time) I won't be in doubt again!
Ive noticed a lot of these recently, most of them have an extra wire coming from the ecu side of the harness to the sensors multiplug. aparantly its a voltage sensing wire that the ecu uses with known resistances to calculate amps. if this is the case you would need to be careful when repairing the loom or connectors
www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/95805/oxygen-sensor-heaters-how-do-you-know-if-that-heater-fault-code-is-real
"When the sensor is first installed and connected, the PCM is commanded to read the resistance in the (cold) heater circuit to know the calibration of that resistor. It will then use that resistance value to calculate the sensor’s actual temperature under all conditions.
Even with a calibration resistor, the heater’s resistance varies by a few hundredths of an ohm from one AFR sensor to another. That’s why the PCM and the AFR sensor heater must be calibrated to each other. That’s also why there is no heater resistance specification, so measuring heater resistance is not a good way to confirm a good/bad oxygen sensor heater. In addition, that’s the other reason we’re told not to repair an AFR sensor’s wiring harness; the resistance might change.
When replacing an air/fuel ratio sensor, you’ll need a scan tool capable of commanding the PCM to relearn the sensor heater’s resistance. On some models, simply clearing the trouble codes and turning off the MIL will do the job. Some scan tools won’t enter the clear-code mode if no codes exist. In that case, just turn on the ignition and disconnect any convenient sensor to create a code. On some models the relearn must be done with the sensor at ambient temperature. On many GM models it can be done with the sensor hot, and the PCM will relearn the real value at the next cold-start."
give it a few to finish processing it should be good
Thanks for the video, great tip using propane and monitoring sensors... I suppose a test drive and going into fuel enrichment mode would do the same too?
Anyhoo. I was using my PICO (recent purchase, still learning the ropes) on my 2013 Elantra with a wideband nernst cell sensor. It is a 5 wire and one is labeled current. I couldn't separate the one wire to put my amp clamp around it, so tried putting it around all the wires out of curiosity, no beans. Keep you posted on my findings when I get a good tool to cut the factory tape around the 5 wires without nicking the wires them selves. I suspect to see a similar waveform as a zirconia sensor, except instead of 0 - 1V, it'll be negative and positive milliamps with the same kind of sin wave for the lack of a better description.
Any diagnostic advantage in your opinion to actually measuring the current flow?
ECU uses a detection ckt to detect change and strength of current flow, then outputs a voltage signal in relationship to O2 content. AFR @ stioch does not produce current flow, voltage = 3.3v. Rich mix produces neg current flow, voltage below 3.3v. Lean mix creates pos flow, voltage above 3.3v. IMO if you watched AFR current it would mimic an O2 sensor in its operation which may provide some diagnostic usefulness. I haven’t personally used this method due to the cost of the micro-amp clamp.
Hey Paul, another great vid. Though I have to say, for a DIY guy like me who just fixes his own and my friends cars, a tool like the snap-on scope or picoscope is just too expensive. I have to rely on my trusty fluke multimeter and cheap OBDII chinese rip-offs and some "dirty tricks". Like in this case I guess I'd swap the sensors and find out if one's broke. I love your clean and 'electrical' approach, gives one much more confidence in finding the problem. D'you know of any cheap scopes for me?
Hey Paul, I'm the frustrated but never scared new subscriber..i have a 2000 rx300 that had p1150 b2s1,with same3 reasons as p1130 in video-since i had sensor replaced 6000 miles ago-i refused 2believe sensor was bad again..tried 2get help for 3weeks online, will DIY.. and cant afford a shop.. kept being told test heater circuit,which i did n was ok..then told test +B n HTL, but could never get an answer if that was the circuit in sensor or harness..or wire colors..FINALLY ran across ur videos, so i cleaned maf,(no pocket screwdriver) changed air filter, replaced b2s1 and reset CEL with scanner.. BUT, I'm so lost.-at idle 750RPM..TP-10.2%..load-14.1..MAF- 3.2 temp-187 TA-15..IAT-108..ECT-194..stft b1- 0 ltft..b1- 2.3...stft b2- 0. ltft- 2.8..What am i missing?? have only driven 40miles since,,so I'm just waiting for my CEL to come back on..do i need to pull etcs n ef1 fuse? Kam? Ugghh.
It's not uncommon for aftermarket parts to fail. Switch your two front oxygen sensors then clear the codes and drive it. Are they the same length sensor harness?
I am rereading your question and I'm really not sure what you're asking me now? What is your current problem? those scan data numbers look good. Is it still setting a fault code?
I noticed w/car at idle the b2stft and b1stft is staying 0..and i thought that was a problem..so today when i started driving i watched n saw the stft for b1&2 constanly at -0.8 to 0 while ltft for b1&2 was adjusting to keep the stft inline,,,i remembered you saying that was the job of ltft as long as its not over 10%..no code yet..info w/car doctor app..but on the torque lite app, it doesnt read my bank2s1 at all ,,it says no data..thats why im thinking there is still a p1150 code but it just hasnt showed yet cuz i havent hit 40 cycles, driven enough or things werent reset like ECU, ETCS, EF1???
Fail,really? i thought a Denso would last more than 6k miles..i didnt think of swapping to check it, but if it ever happens again i will definitely do that 1st cuz i spent 3weeks doing different test as a newbie..even tho i originally bought the Denso 234-9009 sensor 2yrs ago n had it installed, they sent me a free replacement since it only lasted 6k miles..and i installed it myself this time..no CEL so far but not sure I've driven enough yet..
Thanks for the info. !
I got a BMW on my radar now. Keep watching :-)
Changed the o2 today and no change in eratic fuel trims, I plan to test the MAP but can't easily get to it or the wiring so ill hook up VCDS later. I think I can account for another variable regarding the propane in the intake test, the IAT could initally mistake the cold gas for cold rushing air leading to the PCM adding even more fuel which is what happend to me. So many variables so little time :-/
if you wrap a wire around your clamp, for instance, low amp wires. when you get a reading, divide it buy the number of wraps. and you have your reading.
+Jonathan burgsteiner thanks for the tip!
Thanks for the tip
Thanks!
Hey Danner! Do you have a new video with different methods on how to test this tipe of sensor?
I do not. Sorry
Hey, Paul. If you don't have propane, could disconnecting a hose creating a lean condition and look for an increase in voltage prove that you don't have a vacuum leak as well? Thank you in advance for your answer.
thanks!
Wow, snapon troubleshooter has better diagram. They showed a picture of what's inside the computer.
This is just technical & really doesnt' matter in the practical world of diagnostics, but if 2 of the wires from these 4 wire sensors go into what's called an 'Instrumentation OP AMP' configuration in the ECM, then you would never see a difference between the inputs or change in the voltage levels. It's the job of this config to eliminate all noise that is common between the + and - inputs (called common mode rejection or CCMR) which is why I can see this would be used in such a electrically noisy environment as a vehicle. It's just the nature of Op Amps in the Instrumentation amp configuration to behave this way. I would guess the 4 wires are: 2 for power (no common chassis ground) 2 for the signal which would be + and - outputs of the sensor to the + and- inputs to the instrumentation OP AMP in the computer. All very interesting...
Hi Paul, I have a fuel trim problem, the vehicle a 2003 VW uses a wide band o2 a P1190 code was set. LTFT was +36 but STFT fluctuates between -55 and +42. So it's up and down I was thinking a bad o2 so whilst STFT was in the - I let propane/butane mix into the intake and it went +99 then stalled! I expected to see a - number with an introduction of gas. So im thinking a bad o2...have you came across these symptoms before? I was worried the cylinders had over fuelled and bent rods but all is OK
I have a question. Can a wideband sensor cause a heater sensor to show lean. Even after replacing sensors 2 on each banks scan tool shows both o2 sensors not ran and code P2270 showing lean/rich on bank 1 and rich/lean on bank 2. Could it be sensors 1 (afr) causing this? Please any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Mario
Hey paul, great video. I have your premium account and watched all you O2 sensors and fuel trims classes. Is it the only one about wideband sensor?
Why didn't you try to measure current with an amp clamp on the signal wire? maybe it would have given a better result than measuring voltage
Because they only have about a 4ma swing in current. I don't have anything that can measure that low of amperage. Shoot, I could fart and make that much myself lol
@@ScannerDanner
LOL
So how the engine computer can measure and control such a low amperage?
I had a problem with the same car. Front bank wasn't sparking at all. Couldn't figure out why.
Could you unplug a coil to trigger a rich condition and also create a vacuum leak to trigger a lean condition to see the sensor change without having to add propane.
jnarez1 unplugging a coil would not cause a rich condition. unburned fuel yes, but also unburned oxygen
Could you take a test light to ground and give it a pulse to the fuel injector to create a rich condition
Yes
Great Video, Thanks Mr.Paul...
" Banks are always much easier, just switch the sensors in this case.
Hi Paul..what else can i use in place of propane??? Can we use petrol as well???? or like a cloth soaked in petrol???
I suggest propane due to the potential for fire. Propane is a gas and the flame will go out. You start using liquid fuel and get a backfire, you are going to have a problem on your hands. Just snap the throttle rapidly, it is a better test anyway. No only will you get fuel enrichment, you'll get fuel cut too during the decel so you can check both extremes of the sensor
hi paul, great video! was wondering whether if possible you could do a video on nox sensors? i have a fault with a bmw e92 320i petrol and need to learn the ins and out of how it works and how to test etc however cant find any decent info on them? thanks
+Ryan Colley I have 2 or 3 knock sensor videos, just do a search on my channel for them
+ScannerDanner hi paul sorry its not a knock sensor its a nitrogen oxide sensor on the exhaust system, basically a stand alot unit that coomunicates with engine ecu via CAN network to adjust lean conditions at low engine speeds
can you make a vid explaining? i am sure lots off people here would like to see it.
Can u show us ur propane setup?
My Actron shows my wideband sensors reading .037V. Wonder if that is a glitch with the decimal point on the tool.
Is it a good idea to swap the b1,2 sonsers as long as the length of wiring is identical then i have a look at the data to confirm?
How to know if there are wideband or narrowband O2 sensors instaled in a car?
Is this a direct injection engine?
How are the leads connected to Bank1 S1 to give you the 3.3 AND 3.0?? Would I need two DMMs? Thanks for your wisdom!!
+jake ounce no, you can measure them one at a time
If i don’t have propane could i use starter fluid to inject thru the intake tube? I heard starter fluid is more flammable and more explosive than propane.
Just be sure careful and avoid spraying any liquid at a MAF sensor
...sorry meant to say when it was in a + number I added the gas, thanks!
I think you have to scope in milli amps to see movementioned on scope
+Ron Big exactly
(hi Paul I have a question ) open band sensor consists of 1- Pump cell( two terminals connected to ECM)
(and 2- Nernst cell( with another 2 terminals connected to ECM
?and finally 3- Heater circuit and( it connected with another 2 wires to ECM) >>>>>>is that right ??
? actually I am not sure!!!! is the wide band oxygen sensor connected to ECM via 6 wires
?if that right the shown wiring diagram have 4 wires not 6 wires is that means this sensor is Narrow band oxygen sensor
sorry I am very confused. your feedback please thanks . Mohamed El Shamy
It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there.
Paul Danner (ScannerDanner)
www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
thanks Paul , this Forum is very useful for me regards
p0174and/penting p0171 when truck start s it says it is in open loop am going to change gas filter truck was seeding for 4-5months last year and i had this code for 2manths after a got it but more concern with cam sencer wireing says may have a short or ground problem it did go away and now it came back do i take nective cable off and check both sencers how cam i find this F 250 5,4 is there a way i can email u some numbers from code reader if it will help u 1st it is a gas problem 2nd p340 cam
Can I use brakeclean or starting fluid to enrich the mixture?
As long as it is flammable (some brake clean is not)
fyi, i would be careful about calling Toyota's A/F sensors as wideband o2. There is a difference between Toyota's AF sensor vs. to like Honda or Subaru's 5 wire wide band.
excelente
Thanks in advance for the video. Im currently working on 99 lexus e300california emmisions. Comolaint was excessive fuel consumption I found bad af sensor on bank 1. Replaced old plugs with denso original found intake boot had a tear in it replaced failling injector on cylinder 6 aswell as bank 2 injector o rings were leaking. Cleaned dirty maf. No im getting p0171 bank one while bank 2 St and lt look ok in idle after i reset computer. But the thing is that after i drive for 5 minutes the trims on bank 2 max out they still respond to snap trottle and propane but they stay maxed out only after a drive. Any guidance would be helpful. Right now im making a smoke machine to test for leaks.
Also just did smoke check and no leaks. Im thinking af sensor is no good.?
no
Neither of the two have the same sensor readings close loop drive, miss me tell you
Hi... i have a P1176 - o2 (lambda) correction behind Catalyst. Control reached limit reached - intermitent.
What can i do with to inspect and understant this code? I have VCDS and a standard obd scanner. HeLP
1. Hot engine, force the downstream O2 to react the ratio changes (decel fuel cut mode and snap throttle tests)
2. Make sure there are no exhaust leaks upstream of that sensor (downstream)
@@ScannerDanner thanks i will inspect exaust manifold to the cat and to the downstream o2 sensor....
Hey paul I've been reading alot of articles on wideband O2 sensors and I think this article gives the most thorough explanation along with scientific background. So a wideband is a narrowband O2 sensor that has an added chamber with what is known as a "electrochemical current pump" which can drive the mixture either way to achieve stoich in the sensor itself. The gas enters the reference chamber by diffusion and is compared to reference air on one side and a voltage is produced just like in a narrow band which follows the same rules where high voltage is rich and low voltage is lean. A computer controlled circuit then monitors that voltage and decides what type of polarity and amount of current to apply to that sample of gas to get it to create a voltage of 450mv by either consuming fuel or consuming oxygen. I think it is difficult/impossible to monitor it because there is a fast switching between polarity as well as current. Here is the website I found. Very in depth
www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
+nicholas elias so a wideband O2 sensor uses polarity to measure whether its rich or lean and the amount of current to determine how rich or lean
The wideband topic is still very clustered together for some reason, its a loonngg story but here's the short. The O2 ion pump style ZrO2 5 wire with calibration resistor in plug is what's called a German Broadband (LSU), the operation of which you loosely described, which is required for leanburn strat engines. Complex electronics with Op-Amps, ref voltage and a specific I.C (CJ136) operate the ion pump to measure lambda 0.65 to Infinity. The non ion pumping ZrO2 4 wire with basic plug is what I call a Japan Wideband. It uses a voltage bias across a standard ZrO2 cell, eg. Toyota 3.3v and 3.0v. These voltages change potential slightly under various AFR and complex electronics, again Op-Amps, ref voltages but using diffrent I.C, delicately maintain the bias volatge to measure actual AFR. Japan AFR are simpler and can only measure Lambda 0.8 to 1.6, so the LSU is still the ultimate lambda probe!
+Jack Gazzard P.S. however they both end up as a calculated voltage PID's 0-5v where the voltage value at lambda 1.0 is specified by OEM (eg. Toyota 3.3v, Hyundai 1.4v). Maybe that's where some confusion comes from?
+Jack Gazzard well that clears things up :-)
Hello greetings from Mexico have a question I have a 2000 toyota sienna with a / f sensor everything works fine on my scanner but it consumes enough gasoline in the city gives me 15 miles per gallon which also entered to being fast roads, on page fueleconomy.com says I must give 19 combined.
In escanner switch to close loop well but when I go 70 miles and decelerated switch to open loop drive voltage a / f sensor only goes to 3.8v 3.9v is normal? I used the scanner on other cars with a / f sensor but 2005, 2006 model and I get 4.9V. What sensor controls the open loop drive because slowing going to reach 50 miles per hour switch to closed loop this is normal? thanks in advance for your help very good your video channel follow him are very interesting
Sorry if u can help i would be greatfull thanks trying to follow you will be looking at this vid a few times thanks great vid
so?... wide bands work like MAF sensors? it sounds like that...
hey Paul, why is that (on a car i was working) i have o2 oscilation but engine not going into closed loop?
+Oros Criss btw, all that are with warm engine
+Oros Criss based off of scan data? what seems to be the problem with the car?
rough idle, but not dying, detonations whie reving, high fuel consumption
Told client to buy new sparkplug wires cause old ones were cracked and throwing sparks arround them near the distributor so detonations may be from there. But not sure about the O2. There is the dilemma. Good or bad? have data on it, but pcmnotclosing loop. Checked for other o2's, but got none, only that one.
+Oros Criss maybe something is causing it to be in limp mode
Dan could you help me figure out my afr on my 06 CTS, it has a carbed SBC with a/f sensor hooked up and reading with otc3111pr0 with the MA PID. What should it be reading for Cruise,and power mode to be safe and efficient. If you check out my vids you will see what I built. Please help I,ve not dealt with this modern stuff much. Cruise now reads 0.031ma Thank You and watched alot of your videos Very informative.
post your questions here my friend. I'm not sure what you ma should be off hand
Thank you!
www.scannerdanner.com/forum#/general-repair-questions/
Hello greetings from Mexico have a question I have a 2000 toyota sienna with a / f sensor everything works fine on my scanner but it consumes enough gasoline in the city gives me 15 miles per gallon which also entered to being fast roads, on page fueleconomy.com says I must give 19 combined.
In escanner switch to close loop well but when I go 70 miles and decelerated switch to open loop drive voltage a / f sensor only goes to 3.8v 3.9v is normal? Neither of the two have the same sensor readings close loop drive. I used the scanner on other cars with a / f sensor but 2005, 2006 model and I get 4.9V. What sensor controls the open loop drive because slowing going to reach 50 miles per hour switch to closed loop this is normal? thanks in advance for your help very good your video channel follow him are very interesting
in the UK all I can see of this video is a black cat in a coal cellar at midnight.
black screen no video.
shame because they are usually the best around.
i meant to put a 5 instead of a 3 on the lectures lol.
At 12:10
Did you catch it?!
Lol, on the desk
mercedes benz s550 w221
You have so many video on O2 sensor working, but you dont succesful in making single video which help to understand if a oxygen sensor is working properly or not, inspecially the case where car ecu not give check light. Plz make videos simple.
kashif Raza s you need to watch his videos again if you watch them and still can’t understand how to test them, then repairing cars is not for you.
:)
thats a really gay table