Well done and thank you, Heather! One of them will hear us sooner or later, right? I mean - when will the mainstream media stop gaslighting women and making biology seem so effing complicated?!! WRN are saints! 💙
People who suggest this can't have ever done parkrun. How would the other category even work? Do we really expect all trans runners to put their category as "other" instead of the one they feel like they are?
You simply register as a male, a female, or another category. When you finish the race, you are given a time, a place, and when you get your personal bar code and finish token scanned, your result is posted. Your result is linked to whatever gender you have registered as. Runners can of course lie when they register, but the huge amount of available data suggest that less than 5 people (birth males) have run as females. It's all about UK politics around trans athletes and PR central command throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Former PR director >250 runs.@@RaRa-eu9mw
"Transgender 'women'" is bollocks. No need to use the word "women" for men. ...Heather, you're AWESOME! What you've built is fantastic. Be well. Love to all the women & men fighting the bollocks.
If you break laws you should at least have to pay a fine or community service. Immediately pass a law that biological men cannot compete against women. This is not a crazy idea, discriminating against real women and girls should be taken seriously.
Surely there are bigger things to worry about in the world than if someone wants to register for parkrun as a woman when they are trans or indeed a man. You can also register as a 90 year old woman if you are a 20 year old woman and take the age record easily if you really want to , but why would you. Parkrun is a bit of fun , who cares if the very occasional record may not be as it seems, it's not the Olympics.
If I can get enough people to agree with my personal definitions of 'trans woman' and 'trans man' there would be no problem. To me, a trans woman is a biological female who presents herself as male and a trans man is a biological male who presents as female thus reverting to the almost defunct term 'transvestite'. Trannies is what we used to call them but as that sounds vaguely insulting to someone who is delusional I'm not recommending it being used. Let's be kind but stick to facts: a woman is an adult human female capable of conceiving, gestating, and breastfeeding human infants. A man is an adult human male capable of impregnating an adult human female. There it is. That's what I believe. That's what science (i.e. observation and empirical demonstration) tells us. Anything else is false.
What about someone who has gone through menopause, or has had a hysterectomy? Are they no longer female? Similarly, what about people who have had a vasectomy? Are they no longer male?
Non-arguments I'm afraid. Normally humans have two arms, but occasionally are born with only one or have one amputated. Would you say that these people are no longer human?
@@llehctimtrawets that depends on your definition of human. How is it a non argument? You stated what your definition of female is, so using your definition, the small minority of cis women who are unable to meet those requirements aren't female.
You’ve got it exactly backward, which is why this is all so confusing for people: A transwoman is born *male* and tries to appear female. A transman is a woman who’s decided she wants to appear male.
I know I'm out of step in this but that was my point. I don't think (nor does science) that people can change gender (sex), therefore keep the same bio-logical marker to reduce confusion.
"debate" is a bit of an overreaction. The vast majority of people aren't bothered, the only people that care are transphobes jumping on the chance to hate on the trans community. Unfortunately, Parkrun have given in to them, and by reporting the story as a "debate" or a "controversy" the media are only fueling the transphobic narrative
I’ve been an advocate for LGB rights since the 90s (there were just the three letters then). This is difficult. I wish with this issue there was a way to advocate for trans women not at the expense of cis women, because I want to support ALL. Trans men don’t dominate cis men in sport in the same way. There is a biological difference. I would advocate for trans and cis categories, but that could out passing trans people, which I don’t advocate. It’s just messy and unfair for everyone, except cis men who are still winning their sports.
Why not have Men, Women and Trans included all in one competition. At the finish line just name the best 3 males, females and trans separately. Jesus Christ.
When someone is born male and has surgery to become female, that's not all that happens, they have to take hormones to get to the levels that a female would be at. I don't think this is being factored into this person's opinions. I'm not going to claim to know everything about it, but if we're going for women's rights, surely we want people who identify as women, who take hormone replacements to become women, who have surgery, all to be included in those rights. I think the easiest solution would be to just have a time list. Maybe with age. No gender categories at all. But let's not hate on people who just want to run and be sociable with other people, and are now getting the blame for a poor system across the board
Males taking cross sex hormones (a fast track to lifelong medicalisation BTW) don’t lose enough innate advatage to make including them in the women’s category fair to women. Added to which many ‘male to female’ (which doesn’t actually happen because humans CAN’T change their biological sex) men don’t use cross sex hormones or have surgery - they’re fully intact men who just *claim* to be women. The whole thing is absurd and misogynistic.
You can't become a woman by surgery or taking hormones. World Athletics has banned men from competing against women because they have a biological advantage which is not erased by taking hormones. Why isn't the protection of professional female athletes against unfair male competition not afforded to all women.
You're missing the point. A man having gone through male pubity has bigger lung xapacity, mire muscle density, longer leg arm and torsos, more bone and thus more capacity for creating oxygen carrying cells, different hip and pelvis stature to leg ball joint angles and so on, That man now taking hormones may have hair folical changes, some muscle density changes but still has skeletal and lung capacities of a male. It is grossly unfair. Proof can be seen in competitions like swimming. Natural born males having gone through puberty and years of hormones therapy are winning every race there is by times that a natural woman can't hope to achieve.
Its about more than Hormone levels. Like the other reply says, once a boy has gone through puberty and become a man there are significant physiological differences. And even with their genetic make up from birth like bone structure and muscle insertion points etc . . . .these are advantageous in sports as well as other areas, the ability to develop power is a big one. These people are not the same as a biological females, its as simple as that. Its a fact. A trans person should be allowed to live however they want, in peace and happiness. BUT NOT at the expense of others, biological women, and biological female athletes in particular (in this case). There is a real element of misogyny to this trans movements absolute disregard for biological women. There needs to be a third category in sports and if trans athletes don't want to compete there then they should not be competing. That Canadian Powerlifting coach highlighted the ridiculousness of it last year very well.
@@Corcioch @forwardlooking6356 that's fair, and although I think it's more complicated than that because SOME people born female will just have better physiology than other women, they'll be taller, have longer legs, more ability to grow muscle, I still don't think that makes it fair to blame trans people for this. There's a bit in one of these comments that says "at the expense of women" and I think this is my issue really, because it makes out that trans people, wanting to run a parkrun (which is designed to be more of a fun run) are purposefully cheating women by attending and identifying as they are, which i don't think is the case at all. It's not a case of "they are ruining it so they are the bad guys", it's just that the system isn't set up in a way to include those people, which is the whole point of why this is even an issue, inclusivity. I agree that maybe the extra categories might help, but also what if someone wanted to target trans people from an event they regularly go to? That could be a possibility if they have to appear on leaderboard under that title. I just think getting rid of all gender titles in this instance is the safer and fairer option, then there are still times to aspire to, and nobody has to think "oh I can only ever go as fast as the top person in my gender category", which is a self-limiting belief anyway
What a loud of tripe 'a trans woman might race in park run as a woman then go back to work the next day as a man' - what a completely absurd, untrue statement to try and scramble to back up your discriminative ideas. This is an important issue to discuss, but not in this hateful way.
Park run is not a competition or a race , it’s for ALL people to come together and just run, there is no need for record times, each runner should get their finishing time/position regardless of gender, then subsequently try to improve over time
This is completely untrue. Parkrun started as the Bushy Park Time Trial and competition has been an integral part of Parkrun for many people since it's inception. Inclusivity is great and parkrun has done many things to encourage participation with initiatives such as parkwalk. However that shouldn't be at the expense of the existing participants and this move alienates a huge section of them. By raising (valid) concerns about a very small number of records this movement has now erased many thousands of records for men and women of all ages which is extremely regrettable
@@SamWRunsthey aren't valid concerns. 3 age group records across 1200+ parkruns isn't a concern. I agree that parkrun have made a mistake by getting rid of all course records. They should have done nothing, kept everything how it was and let the transphobes thrown their tantrums
Well done and thank you, Heather! One of them will hear us sooner or later, right?
I mean - when will the mainstream media stop gaslighting women and making biology seem so effing complicated?!! WRN are saints! 💙
One day! It's a long haul though x
Biology is complicated
@@ethandalton6480
So is Autogynephilia
@@mikalina1 I imagine it is. But the number proportion of people who transition for that reason is probably a very small amount of everyone who does.
@@ethandalton6480 There are many bad reasons why people wish to transition sex, and one good reason why they can't.
Disgraceful actions, the undermining of reality continues.
The irony is they have age categories, so they admit that biology does make a difference for why else have these 🤨
Did she actually LISTEN?
🤷
No
The stony face, then her follow-up question. She also spoke over you with a feint air of irritation. 😑
No she didn't, unfortunately.
Thank you Heather 🙏🙏From NY 🍎
Just need to add another category for trans runners. Bring back the records.
People who suggest this can't have ever done parkrun. How would the other category even work? Do we really expect all trans runners to put their category as "other" instead of the one they feel like they are?
You simply register as a male, a female, or another category. When you finish the race, you are given a time, a place, and when you get your personal bar code and finish token scanned, your result is posted. Your result is linked to whatever gender you have registered as. Runners can of course lie when they register, but the huge amount of available data suggest that less than 5 people (birth males) have run as females. It's all about UK politics around trans athletes and PR central command throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Former PR director >250 runs.@@RaRa-eu9mw
@@RaRa-eu9mwI ‘feel’ like I’m royalty, but people don’t bow to me in the street. How is *that* fair?
@@lilyweatherwaxHRH ?
"Transgender 'women'" is bollocks. No need to use the word "women" for men. ...Heather, you're AWESOME! What you've built is fantastic. Be well. Love to all the women & men fighting the bollocks.
Interesting choice of word to describe "equality" and "inclusiveness"
If you break laws you should at least have to pay a fine or community service. Immediately pass a law that biological men cannot compete against women. This is not a crazy idea, discriminating against real women and girls should be taken seriously.
It's parkrun. It's not a competition.
@@RaRa-eu9mwThen why do they publish times and rankings?
@@lilyweatherwaxHRH Runners are often motivated by our times, trying to improve them.
Well done Heather, its cheating. Its unfair, expecting women to budge up for cheating men
Thank you Heather. Men are not women!
Thank you Heather, mens inclusion excludes me.
A transwoman is not a woman. A dog that identifies as a cat is not a transcat FFS.
Surely there are bigger things to worry about in the world than if someone wants to register for parkrun as a woman when they are trans or indeed a man. You can also register as a 90 year old woman if you are a 20 year old woman and take the age record easily if you really want to , but why would you. Parkrun is a bit of fun , who cares if the very occasional record may not be as it seems, it's not the Olympics.
If I can get enough people to agree with my personal definitions of 'trans woman' and 'trans man' there would be no problem. To me, a trans woman is a biological female who presents herself as male and a trans man is a biological male who presents as female thus reverting to the almost defunct term 'transvestite'. Trannies is what we used to call them but as that sounds vaguely insulting to someone who is delusional I'm not recommending it being used. Let's be kind but stick to facts: a woman is an adult human female capable of conceiving, gestating, and breastfeeding human infants. A man is an adult human male capable of impregnating an adult human female. There it is. That's what I believe. That's what science (i.e. observation and empirical demonstration) tells us. Anything else is false.
What about someone who has gone through menopause, or has had a hysterectomy? Are they no longer female?
Similarly, what about people who have had a vasectomy? Are they no longer male?
Non-arguments I'm afraid. Normally humans have two arms, but occasionally are born with only one or have one amputated. Would you say that these people are no longer human?
@@llehctimtrawets that depends on your definition of human.
How is it a non argument? You stated what your definition of female is, so using your definition, the small minority of cis women who are unable to meet those requirements aren't female.
You’ve got it exactly backward, which is why this is all so confusing for people: A transwoman is born *male* and tries to appear female. A transman is a woman who’s decided she wants to appear male.
I know I'm out of step in this but that was my point. I don't think (nor does science) that people can change gender (sex), therefore keep the same bio-logical marker to reduce confusion.
I expect the debates are going to continue, because you are clearly happy to give women's rights away to men!
"debate" is a bit of an overreaction. The vast majority of people aren't bothered, the only people that care are transphobes jumping on the chance to hate on the trans community. Unfortunately, Parkrun have given in to them, and by reporting the story as a "debate" or a "controversy" the media are only fueling the transphobic narrative
I’ve been an advocate for LGB rights since the 90s (there were just the three letters then). This is difficult. I wish with this issue there was a way to advocate for trans women not at the expense of cis women, because I want to support ALL. Trans men don’t dominate cis men in sport in the same way. There is a biological difference. I would advocate for trans and cis categories, but that could out passing trans people, which I don’t advocate. It’s just messy and unfair for everyone, except cis men who are still winning their sports.
Who are the trans women who are "dominating" women's sport?
Why not have Men, Women and Trans included all in one competition. At the finish line just name the best 3 males, females and trans separately. Jesus Christ.
If park run is a fun run. Dont time them at all. Unpublish all the times from the site.
Oh and fk sky news 🖕🏻
So change the entire format that many enjoy . .for a few. The opposite of say . . . .democracy.
This new parkrun change is abuse against women by men. Parkrun are enabling this.
this is such a disappointing update
When someone is born male and has surgery to become female, that's not all that happens, they have to take hormones to get to the levels that a female would be at. I don't think this is being factored into this person's opinions.
I'm not going to claim to know everything about it, but if we're going for women's rights, surely we want people who identify as women, who take hormone replacements to become women, who have surgery, all to be included in those rights. I think the easiest solution would be to just have a time list. Maybe with age. No gender categories at all. But let's not hate on people who just want to run and be sociable with other people, and are now getting the blame for a poor system across the board
Males taking cross sex hormones (a fast track to lifelong medicalisation BTW) don’t lose enough innate advatage to make including them in the women’s category fair to women.
Added to which many ‘male to female’ (which doesn’t actually happen because humans CAN’T change their biological sex) men don’t use cross sex hormones or have surgery - they’re fully intact men who just *claim* to be women.
The whole thing is absurd and misogynistic.
You can't become a woman by surgery or taking hormones. World Athletics has banned men from competing against women because they have a biological advantage which is not erased by taking hormones. Why isn't the protection of professional female athletes against unfair male competition not afforded to all women.
You're missing the point. A man having gone through male pubity has bigger lung xapacity, mire muscle density, longer leg arm and torsos, more bone and thus more capacity for creating oxygen carrying cells, different hip and pelvis stature to leg ball joint angles and so on, That man now taking hormones may have hair folical changes, some muscle density changes but still has skeletal and lung capacities of a male. It is grossly unfair. Proof can be seen in competitions like swimming. Natural born males having gone through puberty and years of hormones therapy are winning every race there is by times that a natural woman can't hope to achieve.
Its about more than Hormone levels. Like the other reply says, once a boy has gone through puberty and become a man there are significant physiological differences. And even with their genetic make up from birth like bone structure and muscle insertion points etc . . . .these are advantageous in sports as well as other areas, the ability to develop power is a big one.
These people are not the same as a biological females, its as simple as that. Its a fact.
A trans person should be allowed to live however they want, in peace and happiness. BUT NOT at the expense of others, biological women, and biological female athletes in particular (in this case).
There is a real element of misogyny to this trans movements absolute disregard for biological women.
There needs to be a third category in sports and if trans athletes don't want to compete there then they should not be competing.
That Canadian Powerlifting coach highlighted the ridiculousness of it last year very well.
@@Corcioch @forwardlooking6356 that's fair, and although I think it's more complicated than that because SOME people born female will just have better physiology than other women, they'll be taller, have longer legs, more ability to grow muscle, I still don't think that makes it fair to blame trans people for this.
There's a bit in one of these comments that says "at the expense of women" and I think this is my issue really, because it makes out that trans people, wanting to run a parkrun (which is designed to be more of a fun run) are purposefully cheating women by attending and identifying as they are, which i don't think is the case at all. It's not a case of "they are ruining it so they are the bad guys", it's just that the system isn't set up in a way to include those people, which is the whole point of why this is even an issue, inclusivity.
I agree that maybe the extra categories might help, but also what if someone wanted to target trans people from an event they regularly go to? That could be a possibility if they have to appear on leaderboard under that title. I just think getting rid of all gender titles in this instance is the safer and fairer option, then there are still times to aspire to, and nobody has to think "oh I can only ever go as fast as the top person in my gender category", which is a self-limiting belief anyway
What a loud of tripe 'a trans woman might race in park run as a woman then go back to work the next day as a man' - what a completely absurd, untrue statement to try and scramble to back up your discriminative ideas.
This is an important issue to discuss, but not in this hateful way.
It’s not hateful to state the truth. There are, in fact, *many* males doing EXACTLY that.
@lilyweatherwax3773 any evidence?
@@Noggyorwhat There are plenty of examples. Eddie Izzard being one.
Park run is not a competition or a race , it’s for ALL people to come together and just run, there is no need for record times, each runner should get their finishing time/position regardless of gender, then subsequently try to improve over time
This is completely untrue. Parkrun started as the Bushy Park Time Trial and competition has been an integral part of Parkrun for many people since it's inception. Inclusivity is great and parkrun has done many things to encourage participation with initiatives such as parkwalk. However that shouldn't be at the expense of the existing participants and this move alienates a huge section of them.
By raising (valid) concerns about a very small number of records this movement has now erased many thousands of records for men and women of all ages which is extremely regrettable
@@SamWRunsthey aren't valid concerns. 3 age group records across 1200+ parkruns isn't a concern. I agree that parkrun have made a mistake by getting rid of all course records. They should have done nothing, kept everything how it was and let the transphobes thrown their tantrums
"Competition" is not a swear word.
@@MartinCloon no one is saying that it is
Think you may have totally missed the point.
I quit Parkrun. Unintelligent desition. Woman should be happy that tras woman is with the woman.