@user-dt6ds5gi8w If you need a "soft place to land" after you choose to express your position, look up these groups... Freedom From Religion Black Non-Believers The Atheist Experience Talk Heathen Also check out the works of these contributors... Mandisa Thomas Jeremiah Camara Neil DeGrass Dr. Amos N. Wilson Dr. John Henry Clark Dr. Asa Hillard Dr. Joy Degruy-Leary Dr. Francis Cress-Welsing Nelly Fuller Jr. These critical thinkers have produced a body of work that will reaffirm and support your position and help reduce the impacts of any perceived losses. -Later
You really do have to stay in the closet a black atheist. They just ridicule and guilt you so much if you disagree with their non-sense. I for one could not deal with it and left, never to return. There is a big world out here with good people devoid of religion.
It saddens me that so many black people, not just in the USA but all over Latin America and Brazil, are extremely religious even though their ancestors were forced to be Christians by their masters.
@@DrumWild Unfortunately, I think that's the case with many religious people. We didn't ask to be religious, we didn't intend to be hateful towards other people. It's how we were raised from birth. Our parents were religious, our grandparents were probably hateful bigots, some of them may have been members of groups such as the Ku Klux Klan. Who the hell knows why? My paternal grandparents most likely supported conservative politicians like Sen. Josef McCarthy back in the 1950s.
I wonder if we can bring a class action lawsuit against all religions that include hate speech🔯✝️☪️ if you're a lawyer or you know one and you think I'm on to something let me know I'll start a petition that should travel the entire country. Infact if your reading this thumb up and share if you agree. 🔯✝️☪️☠️💀🔪👀🤬🤕🥵😵💫🎃👻😇👹🌞💔🧠🧟👰🏽👰🏽🤵🏽🤵🏽⛈️🌊🌈🫅🏽🧛🏽🏊🏽🧑🏽🎄🔥🍎🍌🍇⛪🗺️🎯🏹💊⛓️💥📚💌📢🪬🪦📜🔐⚔️⚱️⚰️♀️♂️🔙🔙🔙🆓🆙🚹🚺🚻♿🚼🛐☯️ 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🟰🕛
If you're a victim of religious hate speech that says you deserve death or sub par treatment because your __________ Your gay Your unfaithful Your impure Your divorced Your different Your too similar Your worshipping wrong god Your choosing not to worship Your born there not here Your female Your gentlile I'm talking to youIf you're a victim of religious hate speech that says you deserve death or sub par treatment because your __________ Your gay Your unfaithful Your impure Your divorced Your different Your too similar Your worshipping wrong god Your choosing not to worship Your born there not here Your female Your gentlile I'm talking to you
sorry, but seneca never said that - that is a common misquote, being a paraphrase of a quote from gibbon’s rise and fall of the roman empire - just google seneca gibbon misquote and it will lead you to it
@jameshose5043 Got it. Thank you for illuminating the option. Regardless of who said it, how accurate is the statement, and do you believe such conditions exist?
Yeah! And all he's really doing is breaking down the things the masters tried to instill phobia in us about in a way that makes sense and is simple and reasonable! 😁
This is what I have NEEDED. I also identify as a Humanist. Living by my intuition in the now. Getting strength from community of like minds who believe in the Universal Truth. Treat others as you would want others to treat you!! Its soooo simple!!
It really is so simple. Unfortunately I lived my life 40 yrs with blindfolds on and the typical Christian judging and thinking I'm better than others cause I had sweet jesus 😅. Now I live my life just as you stated. I also try to help as many as I can where I can. Now I feel I'm really living. I feel good trying to be the best human that I can be. Never been happier. Simple. To bad I waisted so long trying to meet a standard I followed out of fear.
As always dear friends I refer all to explain their beliefs with reason… Sooo, simply; is there ANY EVIDENCE or reason to suggest that the universe contains a GOD??! None. No gods no way no how no where. Thus black white yellow red or grey. No gods. Is Christianity racist. Undoubtedly. There’s a ton of evidence for that…!
@rosemarymceathron4037 Hello RM. I agree. That's evident to the power of hypnosis and the other forms of psychological conditioning used to manipulate the masses into worshipful obedience eminating from fear, and self-loathing, as in accepting that people are born sinners and all fall short of being granted a healthy relationship with the deity that made them sinners, from conception through death. A commonly held belief is that after death, the relationship between people and the deity will improve, even though that occurrence has never been proven, yet many bear the physical and mental scars of abuse at the hands of those who peddle the government supported psycho-hallucinogenic drug with a street name called religion. It's Hypnosis on a global scale.
Thank you, Seth for having the Dr. on! We need to hear from diverse atheists/humanists! If you could host someone latinx that also would be great. I am half Latin and the RC church has a strangle hold. Thank you for these different voices in this movement!
A marvelous conversation! There is social and community life after recognizing the truth of atheism! Dr. Pinn recognizes how artists & authors have communicated this theme for so long.
The sad thing about these conversations is that i know a million people who would benefit from hearing them but i know as soon as they saw the word ‘atheist’ in the channel name, they’d immediately disregard all of it. Some people just choose ignorance.
I know the feeling. When I was growing up, I was told by my Christian aunt and uncle to avoid Atheist people, that atheists have no morals whatsoever. They'd rather rape and kill anyone who doesn't agree with them. I knew that was bullshit.
When my sister recommended _The God Delusion_ by Richard Dawkins to my niece, she said, "I would never read a book with that title." My niece died of CoVID in 2022, without having ever read any Dawkins. Sad.
Loved this conversation! As a Black atheist, I think we can still get caught up in ideas surrounding states and nations that can trip us up, tho. I understand being born to a place, and feeling attachment and belonging to it. In your case, the US. We're SUPPOSED to feel that. The people there are those we've grown up with. The friends we love live around us. The lands there have fed and sheltered us. Having a sense of loyalty towards them -- wanting to protect the land and the people, to nurture and be there for them, even improve conditions for them -- is a deep instinct for us as human beings. We _evolved_ to do this. It is why our ancestors didn't simply wind up as sabertooth food: we learned how to pull together and collaborate instead of blindly and stupidly competing for control and dominance. Feeling those healthy attachments addresses two of the three important connections that make all our lives thrive together: Connection to the land. Connection to your community. (The other, being your connection to your Self). That is a wonderful thing. But I would ask, the way you and many of us think of the US: hasn't it gone anthropomorphized a bit? I hear people talk about their respective countries in a way that makes them feel like _sentient entities._ Like an actual living, breathing person they know. And it makes me worry that that fools us into giving our loyalty to the _institutions and systems_ that have been built ATOP the land and the people in our communities...often, at the detriment of said land and people. I wish we could see our way to not conflate the land and the people that we love, with the oligarchs and the politicians and the institutions who exploit them. Because empires do end. Structures of power and control get beaten back. Bureaucracy fails. Yet, isn't what counts the _land,_ and the _People?_ (_ALL_ of them. All races, all genders, all abilities/disabilities, all levels of age and health...ALL of us). We atheists look at churches and say, 'Look at how they're able to move and provide for their communities to make things easier on each other. We need communities like that!' The folk who engage in Black struggle have always understood this. The whole point of that presence of community is that _people have a place to go when they need help._ That, when the government abandons (think about Hurricane Katrina), when police harass and murder (think of the many, many people, such as George Floyd, who have been wantonly destroyed), when the institutions sign evil into law (or uproot good laws, like Roe vs. Wade), there is a way for us to connect with each other and organize to protest, plan, assist, and protect...DESPITE the often callous whims of the systems around us. That there is a center (or several centers) around which communities can pull together to be there for and help each other. Keep your eyes clear as these things go on. The land was here before the US, there were people here before the US. That _can_ still be possible AFTER the US, if it comes to that. The question is: what shall we do, how do we organize, in order to _make sure_ that the power vacuum isn't filled by nazis and wannabe monarchs, but instead by the communities that _we_ build, in order to help each other when we need it and keep life going in a way that is free and comfortable and mutually-beneficial for everyone, in a way that honors our Earth with respect, and sustainability.
As a former Christian of color I can attest that the best thing that ever happened to me was leaving the church. I saw the world for what it is and I became a better person for it.
This interview appeared in my recommendations, perhaps because I listen to Dr. Ray Hagins. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and will recommend Dr. Pinn's book to my book club!
I'm 70 now. Somehow I fell upwards many times. I'm still living. I didn't really know black folk except in college and later on, prison. black culture is emerging in beautiful ways, finally.
As with most cultures beyond the 4th century convert or die. In the last 200 years or so we have been trying to reverse this. Especially the last 50 years. Tough going as it is, especially when some things are law and getting to be law in some countries, hard to change when it's ingrained.
I'm not so much a non believer, but so much of what is being said makes a lot of since and deserves some more investigating. I will definitely continuing researching this thought or way of thinking.
I think Dr. Anthony Pinn is a partner in promoting reason, rationality and critical thinking. The idea that making up fascinating and entertaining stories or exaggerating or lying about events is acceptable as long as it is promoting good behavior and helping people live responsible, honest and productive lives does appear to have some benefits. Unfortunately, the literature is also full of fascinating and entertaining stories and exaggerations and luring about bad ideas that promote bad behaviors which can results in some pretty serious consequences including crime, hatred, cruelty and wars. Using a word like Humanism instead of Religion is a good start because the ideas and the literature of Humanism do not contain the bad behaviors and bad ideas that the literature of Religions contain. Theism is a better word than Religion but there is still a lot of speculation and magical thinking in that literature.
Thank you for this interview. I grew up in my grandparents' Pentascostal church and always had questions that no one could or would answer. I just ordered the book from Amazon and look forward to reading it tomorrow.
Dr. Pinn really nailed my discomfort with UU congregations. There's no theism, they don't tell you what to believe, but Sunday services were too much like the standard mainstream protestant services that I had left. For deconverts who enjoyed church, and want to keep that experience, it's fine. I'm glad that resource is available. But it's just to "churchy" for me to feel comfortable there.
Well….I’m a white American and Not comfortable with either atheism Or theism, but I’m very appreciative of this conversation. We can eventually solve our many problems if we work at it together with personal integrity and mutual respect. However the immediate problem is holding on to democracy, even in its dysfunctional present condition.
"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side." Aristotle
Excellent conversation, more of this please! I would love to hear more about how UUAs and Ethical Societies can shed their traditional religious flavor, and mindfully move in a more uniquely humanistic way.
I saw the photo of a blăckman + Seth Andrews, and I could not click fast enough 😀! Thank you for this interview. More blāck folks need to come out of the religious closet.
He is completely correct about theism and religion. As a Satanist we are religious we do certain things at certain times so we can see ourselves as religious but not spiritual. And definitely not theistic.
As an agnostic, I see Christianity as potentially problematic and harmful to African Americans in certain ways. However, I’m concerned about what could replace it, considering that many people rely on religion for guidance and stability. If religion were to be removed without a suitable replacement, there could be challenges as not everyone might be able to choose or maintain a new system of values on their own. It’s important to find alternatives that can provide similar support and moral structure.
I made 62 year old man and I have struggled with this conversation with myself, can I come to the same conclusion that is not real what everybody believes in and what my mother and all these other people have given their life for.. However when I explain things to people and it's right there and they face a real shoot me down with Bible scriptures but they're even not even living the life that the scriptures say .. By my biggest thing is how can you give me a religion that I see you don't even believe in as colonizers because you do against what the book says in the book cannot be real because it's only to justify your behavior to keep you in line.. I like that I'm pro well-being I got to use that.. Through all these things there's nothing but money hubs and control of people.. Imagine being poor bad health bad housing bad environment and hearing that someone loves you and going to save you, through all that suffering you got to be crazy
Yall flashed Fredrick Douglass on the black atheist line up . I’m not a Christian but according to his autobiography he said In an appendix to his autobiography, Narrative of the Life of an American Slave, published in 1845, Douglass clarified that he was not opposed to all religion, but only the Christianity of a slaveholding America: "I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, ... Imma have to check Dubois too.
I really haven't been to church for a service in about 20 something years, and the only time I do really go is for a funeral, and even that is a problem for me.. Because they want to turn it into some type of religious fundamental service.. literally trying to save people at a funeral it's definitely a nerve killer for me..
I have been asking this question ever since the CRT controversy came up but haven't found an answer. I took a class with Dr William R Jones at University called THE DYNAMICS OF RACISM AND OPPRESSION decades ago. To me, it sounds like it's CRT. Is CRT a new label for that or is THE DYNAMICS OF RACISM AND OPPRESSION a subcategory, competing theory? I found that class very enlightening. It has helped me through the years and would love to know how those things relate to each other.
When the police officer is being sent to a call. There should be some sort of notice if the call may be a mental health call or that there's history of any mental health contact from the number or address. So they could be more aware. Like maybe the screen would be red on the operator side and officers side. So many of these issues come from officers not handling those calls properly.
I was atheist, but God outside of religion has shown up for me time and time again with supernatural result that would not be explained by sheer luck, I believe that everyone should take a real audit of their lives and find areas where God showed up for them even when they couldn’t show up for themselves, seeing is believing and many of us if we are honest have already seen the works of God in our lives
I disagree with the need of ritual for a sense of awe. I retired from the military and worked for a state funded organization that helped troubled teens. Both had an overwhelming religious influence among the people I knew, that includes overwhelmingly the black people I knew. My wife is Filipino, it really does astound me that the Spanish killed her ancestors that did not submit. Muhammed Ali converting to Islam also made me wonder, is that really not just the same thing?! I wish we could learn more of our histories, it is likely no one comes out very good. People are simply not as rational as we like to put on. Ayaan Hirsi Ali capitulating to Christianity, this is a flavor of that too me. Now few but Christian hear her.
Why wouldn't/doesn't any god save and protect the innocent victims of war (usually lower class) and smite those who order and command wars (usually upper class) instead of giving them medals, parades, statues, street and facility naming, etc.?
freethinker nonbeliever in the continent..just to turn 60 yrs soon...before internet it was so hard to get to know like-minded irreligious beyond oneself... time has moved on... Mbeya Tanzania east africa
I really appreciate the UU church but I found the Sunday gatherings to be extremely triggering! The format is exactly like a protestant evangelical service (including the Sunday school) only without the judgement, hellfire and the christian god. Damn if I haven't already sat through enough church to last me the next few lifetimes lol. The lead pastor was a lesbian though, so that was cool.
This was my experience too. I needed community for my children, and I tried getting that for them. Our UU has a sanctuary that is so much like the worst Baptist Christian School I went to as a teenager. It was very triggering.
Call me naive, but I didn't know there were Black non-religious people. I thought they were all religious people, either Catholic, Methodist, Protestant, etc.
Being that Black people are human beings, it would make sense that just like with every other human on the planet, they are individuals who are unique in their own individual ways. In other words, they are no different than other people.
I've read a position that stated: "If god wants to save you, no one can harm you. If god wants to kill hou, no one can save you." How is, or is, that position is accurate?
Simple. As humans, we are mortals, so our death is inevitable. Throughout our mortal life, we've all experienced harm being done to us in one form or another. And there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Therefore, if a god does exist, then that god created us, and will not save us. Instead, he/she/it will can kill us. So, why even worship it?
I am a Negro person born in 1952 Birmingham Alabama. What I can say concerning the past is, that we are Thrown into a world that we did not choose, but still responsible for; in other words we are a thrown projection and because of that fact, the future is the primary mode of History not the past. We must carry forward a tradition that is handed over to us. This fact of handing over is the ground of Historiography.
Imma need some evidence of the blues being this “ bulwark “ against belief rather than a critique against hypocrisy it saw in all facets of society when it went against common sense and nature. That is a critique against Western Pauline Trinitarian Christianity as taught by slavers not belief in Divinity and a Supreme Being necessarily. For every blues song you interpret as against belief and a Supreme Being I can find three that explicitly supports it.
38:53 I don't need "hope" when I have evidence! And the evidence shows that not all the people can keep their heads in the sand or up their asses forever! 🤣🙏
Good conversation. But 35 years in law enforcement, the Broken Windows Theory works. Take care of the community at the smallest level; the people there can have community pride and know others care for that community at the smallest level. Those folks appreciate it; I’ve seen it.
Although one of the theorist (Kelling) has said that the theory was misapplied, therein it's flaw. He did maintain that it has worked even during BLM (which sounded a bit tone-deaf to me). But it was never supposed to be a law and order policy. The police were to be part of the community. Instead they became antagonistic to the community.
@ 39:07 Nihilism is the LOGICAL progression of atheism. To not be nihilistic as an atheist REQUIRES the non believer to be "religious" - where religious experience is attached to SOMETHING outside of God. Hence, his statement about Humanism being religious. You also have scientists and science enthusiasts who find religion in the cosmos. But the most prevalent area where people are finding "religion" as atheists to beat back nihilism is in politics and entertainment (sports, anime, video games, etc).
I'm of German ancestry, born in America. I experience "white privilege" on an intermittent basis. Since I have a multi-ethnic look, I am often times mistaken for being Mexican, or Armenian, or Jewish. Then I get to experience some racism, be it personal or systemic. Remember that Benjamin Franklin had concerns about German immigration. He said that there were too many Germans coming over, they won't assimilate, won't learn the language, and will "Germanize" everything. He also said that Germans have that "swarthy" skin tone, which is a clear indicator of obvious lesser intelligence. So "white" privilege is not so cut-and-dried. Somtimes people like me fall through the cracks and are not allowed housing, work, or are even held by police and accused, because they "know one when they see one." Racism is by far more complicated than what is being talked about here.
To be clear, there were no structural barriers-laws written that had generational impact-against Germans. Social bias based on perceived race, yes, but not structural barriers. By your own admission, you flow “in and out” of the social construct of race. Black people don’t….they are clearly seen as Black 95% or more of the time.
@@christopherhamilton3621 Then elaborate. I am often listening while multi-tasking. In this case, while walking to get my 5 mile minimum in for that day.
I disagree, philosophy and science are much more systems for wrestling with the fundamental questions of human existence than religion could ever be. There's absolutely no need to call Humanism or any other secular ideas for how to live a meaningful life a religion.
I disagree that religion is just a way of finding meaning and community. It is a specific way of finding meaning that derives that meaning from a god or gods. It is a community that revolves around worship of a god. You cannot just redefine words to mean whatever you like.
Actually, words/terms evolve all the time. "Gay" in the 1950s meant something entirely different than "gay" in 1980. "Bachelor" once meant "young knight" instead of "unmarried man." "Quell" once meant "kill" instead of "subdue." "Naughty" was once a descriptor for poverty..."nothing in the way of riches." More than just definitions, words have usages, and those usages can - and do - evolve.
@@TheThinkingAtheistthat is true, however religion has a very different meaning, sets of rituals, and ways of doing/controlling communities that are not present in atheist communities and humanism. I don’t think we should or need to try to be related to religion, we need to separate the good things we can offer as a community and separate it from the majority of the immoral things religions do.
I totally agree and I also don't really see the value in redefining the term? Also, preparing for and traveling to a gathering of like minded folks is not a "ritual". What is the benefit in trying to force some spiritual meaning into something that otherwise doesn't contain it?
I have never heard anyone speak of black humanism. I am aware that there are some black people who are atheists, but I have not heard of any population of black people who identify as humanists.
@gloriaf6971, let me introduce you to James Baldwin. I think he reflects on this. Although, la negritude probably provides a much better context. So I typed this before Dr. Pinn mentioned Baldwin in the video.
@@gloriaf6971 My bad! However, I was responding to your original comment: "I have never heard anyone speak of black humanism." Baldwin was someone who did.
A Considerable Study Of GODS Word, Clearly Points Out That Theres ONLY One Church, And That Church Is The Church Of Christ Matthew 16:18-19 Mark 9:1 Acts 1 1 Corinthians 12:27 Ephesians 1:22-23 Ephesians 4:4
well spoken but still the political fiction (religion) slips in false questions that it pretends to answer. no pass from me. the less magical thinking and false goals and methodologies, the better.
His definition of religion is interesting. I can see how it is useful in some contexts, but it is also the overly broad definition that theists like to use against atheists in their disingenuous debating. That causes me some discomfort.
The term religion has never had one agreed upon definition, but I think his use of the term is overly broad and not very useful. And I wonder if that’s intentional.
I don't buy his notion of religion. Community is community. It is an entirely separate concept from religions. Under his model, me sitting down to watch the hockey game could be considered a religion. Except in basically any normative conception of what a religion is. Just muddies the waters like when people play into the notion that "Scientism" is a religion.
Most "religions" are ethnic religions that are not easily separated from a communal culture. Hindus, Gauls, Teutons, Hebrews, Ojibwe, Canaanites, etc. all describe both a people and the religious culture of that people. The concept of religion that you have is very particular to the way Christianity and its offshoots like Islam work.
@@lucyferos205 No. I just don't consider community religion. Religion does not own the concept of community at all. They appropriated it from human society at large. Religion also does not own culture. But culture isn't religious. There is religious culture, but that's separate again. My hockey team isn't a religion. It's a sports team. I don't ritualistically watch it. I watch it. They are not magical. Nothing religious at all about it.
@@nickokona6849Then you're using the word "religion" without understanding what it means. Look into the history of the word and the modern scholarship surrounding the attempts to define it academically. Your definition of religion is at best idiosyncratic. At worst, you're just equating Christianity with all of religion.
Religion, As Defined BY GOD, Is TOTALLY DIFFERENT From today’s FALSE doctrinal belief. “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” James 1:27 KJV
Been a closeted( a non believer) ,black living n the south most of
my 73 years:Thank you.
@user-dt6ds5gi8w If you need a "soft place to land" after you choose to express your position, look up these groups...
Freedom From Religion
Black Non-Believers
The Atheist Experience
Talk Heathen
Also check out the works of these contributors...
Mandisa Thomas
Jeremiah Camara
Neil DeGrass
Dr. Amos N. Wilson
Dr. John Henry Clark
Dr. Asa Hillard
Dr. Joy Degruy-Leary
Dr. Francis Cress-Welsing
Nelly Fuller Jr.
These critical thinkers have produced a body of work that will reaffirm and support your position and help reduce the impacts of any perceived losses.
-Later
Good on ya!
That's so sad that you had to be in the closet because of your non belief. I understand though especially in the south.
You really do have to stay in the closet a black atheist. They just ridicule and guilt you so much if you disagree with their non-sense. I for one could not deal with it and left, never to return. There is a big world out here with good people devoid of religion.
I've encouraged my sons to move around and experience other cultures and settings...it's tough being a non-Christian in the south
It saddens me that so many black people, not just in the USA but all over Latin America and Brazil, are extremely religious even though their ancestors were forced to be Christians by their masters.
It is sad, and it sometimes makes no sense. Clearly, as someone who has never believed and has never been enslaved, it's beyond my imagination.
@@DrumWild Unfortunately, I think that's the case with many religious people. We didn't ask to be religious, we didn't intend to be hateful towards other people. It's how we were raised from birth. Our parents were religious, our grandparents were probably hateful bigots, some of them may have been members of groups such as the Ku Klux Klan. Who the hell knows why? My paternal grandparents most likely supported conservative politicians like Sen. Josef McCarthy back in the 1950s.
Could it be because they are not only born & raised in an environment steeped in superstition (aka religion), but also a lack of education?
I wonder if we can bring a class action lawsuit against all religions that include hate speech🔯✝️☪️ if you're a lawyer or you know one and you think I'm on to something let me know I'll start a petition that should travel the entire country. Infact if your reading this thumb up and share if you agree. 🔯✝️☪️☠️💀🔪👀🤬🤕🥵😵💫🎃👻😇👹🌞💔🧠🧟👰🏽👰🏽🤵🏽🤵🏽⛈️🌊🌈🫅🏽🧛🏽🏊🏽🧑🏽🎄🔥🍎🍌🍇⛪🗺️🎯🏹💊⛓️💥📚💌📢🪬🪦📜🔐⚔️⚱️⚰️♀️♂️🔙🔙🔙🆓🆙🚹🚺🚻♿🚼🛐☯️
🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🟰🕛
If you're a victim of religious hate speech that says you deserve death or sub par treatment because your __________
Your gay
Your unfaithful
Your impure
Your divorced
Your different
Your too similar
Your worshipping wrong god
Your choosing not to worship
Your born there not here
Your female
Your gentlile
I'm talking to youIf you're a victim of religious hate speech that says you deserve death or sub par treatment because your __________
Your gay
Your unfaithful
Your impure
Your divorced
Your different
Your too similar
Your worshipping wrong god
Your choosing not to worship
Your born there not here
Your female
Your gentlile
I'm talking to you
This was awesome. As an African American non believer, I love this kind of content. BTW , we shouldn't take advice from Oprah either
Facts! When doctor oz is one of your horcruxes, you cannot be trusted 😂
🎯
I thought that also!
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." -Somebody
sorry, but seneca never said that - that is a common misquote, being a paraphrase of a quote from gibbon’s rise and fall of the roman empire - just google seneca gibbon misquote and it will lead you to it
@jameshose5043
Got it.
Thank you for illuminating the option.
Regardless of who said it, how accurate is the statement, and do you believe such conditions exist?
That's why I love this channel. I'm actually kind of mad that this guy flew under my radar for so long. He has everything I like about atheism
Yeah! And all he's really doing is breaking down the things the masters tried to instill phobia in us about in a way that makes sense and is simple and reasonable! 😁
This is what I have NEEDED. I also identify as a Humanist. Living by my intuition in the now. Getting strength from community of like minds who believe in the Universal Truth. Treat others as you would want others to treat you!! Its soooo simple!!
It really is so simple. Unfortunately I lived my life 40 yrs with blindfolds on and the typical Christian judging and thinking I'm better than others cause I had sweet jesus 😅. Now I live my life just as you stated. I also try to help as many as I can where I can. Now I feel I'm really living. I feel good trying to be the best human that I can be. Never been happier. Simple. To bad I waisted so long trying to meet a standard I followed out of fear.
As always dear friends I refer all to explain their beliefs with reason…
Sooo, simply; is there ANY EVIDENCE or reason to suggest that the universe contains a GOD??! None. No gods no way no how no where. Thus black white yellow red or grey. No gods. Is Christianity racist. Undoubtedly. There’s a ton of evidence for that…!
When the Republicans say- that should not be taught in schools. That is exactly what should be taught in schools.
The people who really need to hear this won't listen.
@rosemarymceathron4037
Hello RM.
I agree.
That's evident to the power of hypnosis and the other forms of psychological conditioning used to manipulate the masses into worshipful obedience eminating from fear, and self-loathing, as in accepting that people are born sinners and all fall short of being granted a healthy relationship with the deity that made them sinners, from conception through death.
A commonly held belief is that after death, the relationship between people and the deity will improve, even though that occurrence has never been proven, yet many bear the physical and mental scars of abuse at the hands of those who peddle the government supported psycho-hallucinogenic drug with a street name called religion.
It's Hypnosis on a global scale.
Wouldn't that just be everyone? 🤔
Conversations like this are quite necessary if we ever have plans of understanding one another.
Thank you, Seth for having the Dr. on! We need to hear from diverse atheists/humanists! If you could host someone latinx that also would be great. I am half Latin and the RC church has a strangle hold. Thank you for these different voices in this movement!
I really appreciate hearing from Dr. Pinn, fantastic insight I continue to learn from. Thank you for your great work educating us! ❤
A marvelous conversation! There is social and community life after recognizing the truth of atheism! Dr. Pinn recognizes how artists & authors have communicated this theme for so long.
The sad thing about these conversations is that i know a million people who would benefit from hearing them but i know as soon as they saw the word ‘atheist’ in the channel name, they’d immediately disregard all of it. Some people just choose ignorance.
I know the feeling. When I was growing up, I was told by my Christian aunt and uncle to avoid Atheist people, that atheists have no morals whatsoever. They'd rather rape and kill anyone who doesn't agree with them. I knew that was bullshit.
When my sister recommended _The God Delusion_ by Richard Dawkins to my niece, she said, "I would never read a book with that title."
My niece died of CoVID in 2022, without having ever read any Dawkins. Sad.
@@toughenupfluffy7294 smh wow RIP
@@toughenupfluffy7294Dang
More than that deeper than that they embrace fear .. they fear skeptical intellectualism
“I wouldn’t be taking advice from Steve Harvey!” Priceless!!!
Or Oprah as well
This conversation is MUSIC TO MY EARS! Thank You for such GREAT WISDOM!😀🪴🙌🏽🌞🧏🏽♀️😀❤️
Loved this conversation!
As a Black atheist, I think we can still get caught up in ideas surrounding states and nations that can trip us up, tho.
I understand being born to a place, and feeling attachment and belonging to it. In your case, the US.
We're SUPPOSED to feel that.
The people there are those we've grown up with. The friends we love live around us. The lands there have fed and sheltered us.
Having a sense of loyalty towards them -- wanting to protect the land and the people, to nurture and be there for them, even improve conditions for them -- is a deep instinct for us as human beings. We _evolved_ to do this. It is why our ancestors didn't simply wind up as sabertooth food: we learned how to pull together and collaborate instead of blindly and stupidly competing for control and dominance.
Feeling those healthy attachments addresses two of the three important connections that make all our lives thrive together: Connection to the land. Connection to your community. (The other, being your connection to your Self).
That is a wonderful thing.
But I would ask, the way you and many of us think of the US: hasn't it gone anthropomorphized a bit?
I hear people talk about their respective countries in a way that makes them feel like _sentient entities._ Like an actual living, breathing person they know.
And it makes me worry that that fools us into giving our loyalty to the _institutions and systems_ that have been built ATOP the land and the people in our communities...often, at the detriment of said land and people.
I wish we could see our way to not conflate the land and the people that we love, with the oligarchs and the politicians and the institutions who exploit them.
Because empires do end.
Structures of power and control get beaten back.
Bureaucracy fails.
Yet, isn't what counts the _land,_ and the _People?_ (_ALL_ of them. All races, all genders, all abilities/disabilities, all levels of age and health...ALL of us).
We atheists look at churches and say, 'Look at how they're able to move and provide for their communities to make things easier on each other. We need communities like that!'
The folk who engage in Black struggle have always understood this.
The whole point of that presence of community is that _people have a place to go when they need help._
That, when the government abandons (think about Hurricane Katrina), when police harass and murder (think of the many, many people, such as George Floyd, who have been wantonly destroyed), when the institutions sign evil into law (or uproot good laws, like Roe vs. Wade), there is a way for us to connect with each other and organize to protest, plan, assist, and protect...DESPITE the often callous whims of the systems around us.
That there is a center (or several centers) around which communities can pull together to be there for and help each other.
Keep your eyes clear as these things go on.
The land was here before the US, there were people here before the US. That _can_ still be possible AFTER the US, if it comes to that.
The question is: what shall we do, how do we organize, in order to _make sure_ that the power vacuum isn't filled by nazis and wannabe monarchs, but instead by the communities that _we_ build, in order to help each other when we need it and keep life going in a way that is free and comfortable and mutually-beneficial for everyone, in a way that honors our Earth with respect, and sustainability.
Thanks sir - this gentleman’s book is now on my reading list.
This was an excellent conversation to behold.
As a former Christian of color I can attest that the best thing that ever happened to me was leaving the church. I saw the world for what it is and I became a better person for it.
❤
This is the kind of conversation that’s needed to make sense of the situation we’re in right now.
This interview appeared in my recommendations, perhaps because I listen to Dr. Ray Hagins. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and will recommend Dr. Pinn's book to my book club!
I appreciate you Seth as a black American atheist
I'm 70 now. Somehow I fell upwards many times. I'm still living. I didn't really know black folk except in college and later on, prison. black culture is emerging in beautiful ways, finally.
Great conversation. New info. New perspective. Ty y'all.
Finally a Harvard and Columbia University educated mind to truly understand what is going on here. I salute!!!
Very interesting conversation. Some points I hadn’t considered. Thank you both!
As with most cultures beyond the 4th century convert or die. In the last 200 years or so we have been trying to reverse this. Especially the last 50 years.
Tough going as it is, especially when some things are law and getting to be law in some countries, hard to change when it's ingrained.
I'm not so much a non believer, but so much of what is being said makes a lot of since and deserves some more investigating. I will definitely continuing researching this thought or way of thinking.
I think Dr. Anthony Pinn is a partner in promoting reason, rationality and critical thinking. The idea that making up fascinating and entertaining stories or exaggerating or lying about events is acceptable as long as it is promoting good behavior and helping people live responsible, honest and productive lives does appear to have some benefits.
Unfortunately, the literature is also full of fascinating and entertaining stories and exaggerations and luring about bad ideas that promote bad behaviors which can results in some pretty serious consequences including crime, hatred, cruelty and wars.
Using a word like Humanism instead of Religion is a good start because the ideas and the literature of Humanism do not contain the bad behaviors and bad ideas that the literature of Religions contain. Theism is a better word than Religion but there is still a lot of speculation and magical thinking in that literature.
Thank you for this interview. I grew up in my grandparents' Pentascostal church and always had questions that no one could or would answer. I just ordered the book from Amazon and look forward to reading it tomorrow.
Dr. Pinn really nailed my discomfort with UU congregations. There's no theism, they don't tell you what to believe, but Sunday services were too much like the standard mainstream protestant services that I had left. For deconverts who enjoyed church, and want to keep that experience, it's fine. I'm glad that resource is available. But it's just to "churchy" for me to feel comfortable there.
Well….I’m a white American and Not comfortable with either atheism Or theism, but I’m very appreciative of this conversation. We can eventually solve our many problems if we work at it together with personal integrity and mutual respect. However the immediate problem is holding on to democracy, even in its dysfunctional present condition.
"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side." Aristotle
👏👏👏 Preach Brother Preach
#atheism
I so agree with Dr. Anthony Pinn.
Such an awesome Communicator and interviewer❤Thanks, Seth ❤
Excellent conversation, more of this please! I would love to hear more about how UUAs and Ethical Societies can shed their traditional religious flavor, and mindfully move in a more uniquely humanistic way.
I saw the photo of a blăckman + Seth Andrews, and I could not click fast enough 😀! Thank you for this interview. More blāck folks need to come out of the religious closet.
Seriously. I’m so tired of black people telling me they’re christian. WHY?!??!
What is the significance of using ã or ā in blāckman?
Well worth considering. My problem with the U-U's Is that
They are unable to reject any idea, No matter how preposterous.
I read "Black Practice" as similar to "Black Magic," and had no idea it was about race. I had prepared myself to be demonized, as is usually the case.
Awesome dialogue. I share a similar story. Ordained Elder who walked away for the same reasons....
I’ll need to get his books!
He is completely correct about theism and religion. As a Satanist we are religious we do certain things at certain times so we can see ourselves as religious but not spiritual. And definitely not theistic.
The idea of touching a stranger's hair is bonkers to me. WTF These are people, not pets.
Why people never learned to keep their hands to themselves…
I have heard black people say this has happened, but it has never happened to me nor to any of my relatives.
@gloriaf6971 It happened to me a couple of times when I was younger, and when I didn't know how to put people in their place. Grrr!
RIP Sonya Massey. 😢
How do religious wars (which all wars are) foster "peaceful coexistence" between the classes?
Fantastic conversation!
As an agnostic, I see Christianity as potentially problematic and harmful to African Americans in certain ways. However, I’m concerned about what could replace it, considering that many people rely on religion for guidance and stability. If religion were to be removed without a suitable replacement, there could be challenges as not everyone might be able to choose or maintain a new system of values on their own. It’s important to find alternatives that can provide similar support and moral structure.
Steve Harvey us an absolute clown. He should never, ever be quoted when it comes to serious topics.
I made 62 year old man and I have struggled with this conversation with myself, can I come to the same conclusion that is not real what everybody believes in and what my mother and all these other people have given their life for..
However when I explain things to people and it's right there and they face a real shoot me down with Bible scriptures but they're even not even living the life that the scriptures say ..
By my biggest thing is how can you give me a religion that I see you don't even believe in as colonizers because you do against what the book says in the book cannot be real because it's only to justify your behavior to keep you in line..
I like that I'm pro well-being I got to use that..
Through all these things there's nothing but money hubs and control of people..
Imagine being poor bad health bad housing bad environment and hearing that someone loves you and going to save you, through all that suffering you got to be crazy
Yall flashed Fredrick Douglass on the black atheist line up . I’m not a Christian but according to his autobiography he said
In an appendix to his autobiography, Narrative of the Life of an American Slave, published in 1845, Douglass clarified that he was not opposed to all religion, but only the Christianity of a slaveholding America: "I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, ...
Imma have to check Dubois too.
It ain't necessarily so
It aint necessarily so
The things that you're libel
To read in the bible
It ain't necessarily so
Porgy & Bess
I really haven't been to church for a service in about 20 something years, and the only time I do really go is for a funeral, and even that is a problem for me..
Because they want to turn it into some type of religious fundamental service.. literally trying to save people at a funeral it's definitely a nerve killer for me..
Good Show Seth. Only 15 Minutes In. 🎉
I have been asking this question ever since the CRT controversy came up but haven't found an answer. I took a class with Dr William R Jones at University called THE DYNAMICS OF RACISM AND OPPRESSION decades ago. To me, it sounds like it's CRT. Is CRT a new label for that or is THE DYNAMICS OF RACISM AND OPPRESSION a subcategory, competing theory?
I found that class very enlightening. It has helped me through the years and would love to know how those things relate to each other.
Great to see you - class of 96 at mac -
When the police officer is being sent to a call. There should be some sort of notice if the call may be a mental health call or that there's history of any mental health contact from the number or address. So they could be more aware. Like maybe the screen would be red on the operator side and officers side. So many of these issues come from officers not handling those calls properly.
I was atheist, but God outside of religion has shown up for me time and time again with supernatural result that would not be explained by sheer luck, I believe that everyone should take a real audit of their lives and find areas where God showed up for them even when they couldn’t show up for themselves, seeing is believing and many of us if we are honest have already seen the works of God in our lives
I disagree with the need of ritual for a sense of awe. I retired from the military and worked for a state funded organization that helped troubled teens. Both had an overwhelming religious influence among the people I knew, that includes overwhelmingly the black people I knew. My wife is Filipino, it really does astound me that the Spanish killed her ancestors that did not submit. Muhammed Ali converting to Islam also made me wonder, is that really not just the same thing?! I wish we could learn more of our histories, it is likely no one comes out very good. People are simply not as rational as we like to put on. Ayaan Hirsi Ali capitulating to Christianity, this is a flavor of that too me. Now few but Christian hear her.
Why wouldn't/doesn't any god save and protect the innocent victims of war (usually lower class) and smite those who order and command wars (usually upper class) instead of giving them medals, parades, statues, street and facility naming, etc.?
Good video
freethinker nonbeliever in the continent..just to turn 60 yrs soon...before internet it was so hard to get to know like-minded irreligious beyond oneself...
time has moved on...
Mbeya Tanzania east africa
I really appreciate the UU church but I found the Sunday gatherings to be extremely triggering! The format is exactly like a protestant evangelical service (including the Sunday school) only without the judgement, hellfire and the christian god. Damn if I haven't already sat through enough church to last me the next few lifetimes lol. The lead pastor was a lesbian though, so that was cool.
This was my experience too. I needed community for my children, and I tried getting that for them.
Our UU has a sanctuary that is so much like the worst Baptist Christian School I went to as a teenager. It was very triggering.
In the first place disbelieve all things and then look for evidence of actual truth.
Call me naive, but I didn't know there were Black non-religious people. I thought they were all religious people, either Catholic, Methodist, Protestant, etc.
Being that Black people are human beings, it would make sense that just like with every other human on the planet, they are individuals who are unique in their own individual ways. In other words, they are no different than other people.
I've read a position that stated:
"If god wants to save you, no one can harm you. If god wants to kill hou, no one can save you."
How is, or is, that position is accurate?
Simple. As humans, we are mortals, so our death is inevitable. Throughout our mortal life, we've all experienced harm being done to us in one form or another. And there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Therefore, if a god does exist, then that god created us, and will not save us. Instead, he/she/it will can kill us. So, why even worship it?
@shawn092182 Agreed.
More pleasure can be found along the journeys of discovery than in blind, worshipful, and fear based obedience.
i kinda miss church. not the religion, but the fellowship. start one of these humanist church and i'll go.
I am a Negro person born in 1952 Birmingham Alabama. What I can say concerning the past is, that we are Thrown into a world that we did not choose, but still responsible for; in other words we are a thrown projection and because of that fact, the future is the primary mode of History not the past. We must carry forward a tradition that is handed over to us. This fact of handing over is the ground of Historiography.
Imma need some evidence of the blues being this “ bulwark “ against belief rather than a critique against hypocrisy it saw in all facets of society when it went against common sense and nature. That is a critique against Western Pauline Trinitarian Christianity as taught by slavers not belief in Divinity and a Supreme Being necessarily. For every blues song you interpret as against belief and a Supreme Being I can find three that explicitly supports it.
Why disrespect Steve Harvey, or anyone? If you disagree with him, just state your counter points. No need to disparage his character.
His character wasn’t disparaged. And SH’s worldview is an active harm my community. Stating that isn’t disrespectful.
38:53 I don't need "hope" when I have evidence! And the evidence shows that not all the people can keep their heads in the sand or up their asses forever! 🤣🙏
Good conversation. But 35 years in law enforcement, the Broken Windows Theory works. Take care of the community at the smallest level; the people there can have community pride and know others care for that community at the smallest level. Those folks appreciate it; I’ve seen it.
Although one of the theorist (Kelling) has said that the theory was misapplied, therein it's flaw. He did maintain that it has worked even during BLM (which sounded a bit tone-deaf to me). But it was never supposed to be a law and order policy. The police were to be part of the community. Instead they became antagonistic to the community.
Why would the "christian" god order humans to follow a commandment not to kill then put it in the hearts of humans to war against each other?
Maybe the community should not push ideas that are unfounded.
Social Rituals =Regimen+group inclusiveness/protection/affirmation . An emotional stabilizer within a regulated cycle.
@ 39:07
Nihilism is the LOGICAL progression of atheism.
To not be nihilistic as an atheist REQUIRES the non believer to be "religious" - where religious experience is attached to SOMETHING outside of God. Hence, his statement about Humanism being religious. You also have scientists and science enthusiasts who find religion in the cosmos. But the most prevalent area where people are finding "religion" as atheists to beat back nihilism is in politics and entertainment (sports, anime, video games, etc).
16:56 I'm autistic! Everything I do is ritualistic! 🤣🤣🤣
My Closet Friend.
West African Iboga is the real forbidden fruit
I'm of German ancestry, born in America.
I experience "white privilege" on an intermittent basis. Since I have a multi-ethnic look, I am often times mistaken for being Mexican, or Armenian, or Jewish. Then I get to experience some racism, be it personal or systemic.
Remember that Benjamin Franklin had concerns about German immigration. He said that there were too many Germans coming over, they won't assimilate, won't learn the language, and will "Germanize" everything.
He also said that Germans have that "swarthy" skin tone, which is a clear indicator of obvious lesser intelligence.
So "white" privilege is not so cut-and-dried. Somtimes people like me fall through the cracks and are not allowed housing, work, or are even held by police and accused, because they "know one when they see one."
Racism is by far more complicated than what is being talked about here.
To be clear, there were no structural barriers-laws written that had generational impact-against Germans. Social bias based on perceived race, yes, but not structural barriers. By your own admission, you flow “in and out” of the social construct of race. Black people don’t….they are clearly seen as Black 95% or more of the time.
Perhaps the church for the religion without God is the coffee house? Actually, it could be anywhere people from a community gather regularly.
17:00 Seems to take ritual as simply any repeated activities?
But with a group, right?
@@Limited_Light I agree. He lost a lot of credibility in my mind because of that.
Way to miss the point, guys… 😂
@@christopherhamilton3621 Then elaborate. I am often listening while multi-tasking. In this case, while walking to get my 5 mile minimum in for that day.
@@forrestgossett I do not know. I'd have to listen again to know if that's what he meant.
There exists no perfect entity. If Jesus was gods perfect creation, he’d already be able to be seen by every human. I have NEVER seen jesus in person.
Funny thing is, we are all apart of the same race that being the human race. There are obviously different ethnicities but only one race of people 🤔
Questioning a black person about their religion is never productive.
I warned you
I disagree, philosophy and science are much more systems for wrestling with the fundamental questions of human existence than religion could ever be. There's absolutely no need to call Humanism or any other secular ideas for how to live a meaningful life a religion.
"Believing" is Irrelevant .
One can Create whatever he wants to Believe
I disagree that religion is just a way of finding meaning and community. It is a specific way of finding meaning that derives that meaning from a god or gods. It is a community that revolves around worship of a god. You cannot just redefine words to mean whatever you like.
Actually, words/terms evolve all the time. "Gay" in the 1950s meant something entirely different than "gay" in 1980. "Bachelor" once meant "young knight" instead of "unmarried man." "Quell" once meant "kill" instead of "subdue." "Naughty" was once a descriptor for poverty..."nothing in the way of riches."
More than just definitions, words have usages, and those usages can - and do - evolve.
Agreed.
@@TheThinkingAtheistthat is true, however religion has a very different meaning, sets of rituals, and ways of doing/controlling communities that are not present in atheist communities and humanism. I don’t think we should or need to try to be related to religion, we need to separate the good things we can offer as a community and separate it from the majority of the immoral things religions do.
@@goosie8207 The Satanic Temple is a non-theistic religion, and they're officially classified as such.
I totally agree and I also don't really see the value in redefining the term? Also, preparing for and traveling to a gathering of like minded folks is not a "ritual". What is the benefit in trying to force some spiritual meaning into something that otherwise doesn't contain it?
I have never heard anyone speak of black humanism. I am aware that there are some black people who are atheists, but I have not heard of any population of black people who identify as humanists.
@gloriaf6971, let me introduce you to James Baldwin. I think he reflects on this. Although, la negritude probably provides a much better context. So I typed this before Dr. Pinn mentioned Baldwin in the video.
@andreabrown4541 No need to introduce me to James Baldwin. I am well aware of who he is.
@@gloriaf6971 My bad! However, I was responding to your original comment: "I have never heard anyone speak of black humanism." Baldwin was someone who did.
Don't think Dr. Cornell West would like this knowledgeable brother.
A Considerable Study Of GODS Word, Clearly Points Out That Theres ONLY One Church, And That Church Is The Church Of Christ
Matthew 16:18-19
Mark 9:1
Acts 1
1 Corinthians 12:27
Ephesians 1:22-23
Ephesians 4:4
Being a good person isn't rocket science and you don't need any rule book for that.
2 words - christopher hitchens
well spoken but still the political fiction (religion) slips in false questions that it pretends to answer. no pass from me. the less magical thinking and false goals and methodologies, the better.
His definition of religion is interesting. I can see how it is useful in some contexts, but it is also the overly broad definition that theists like to use against atheists in their disingenuous debating. That causes me some discomfort.
The term religion has never had one agreed upon definition, but I think his use of the term is overly broad and not very useful. And I wonder if that’s intentional.
I don't buy his notion of religion. Community is community. It is an entirely separate concept from religions. Under his model, me sitting down to watch the hockey game could be considered a religion. Except in basically any normative conception of what a religion is.
Just muddies the waters like when people play into the notion that "Scientism" is a religion.
I totally agree and I also don't really see the value in redefining the term?
Most "religions" are ethnic religions that are not easily separated from a communal culture. Hindus, Gauls, Teutons, Hebrews, Ojibwe, Canaanites, etc. all describe both a people and the religious culture of that people. The concept of religion that you have is very particular to the way Christianity and its offshoots like Islam work.
@@lucyferos205 No. I just don't consider community religion. Religion does not own the concept of community at all. They appropriated it from human society at large.
Religion also does not own culture. But culture isn't religious. There is religious culture, but that's separate again.
My hockey team isn't a religion. It's a sports team. I don't ritualistically watch it. I watch it. They are not magical. Nothing religious at all about it.
@@nickokona6849Then you're using the word "religion" without understanding what it means. Look into the history of the word and the modern scholarship surrounding the attempts to define it academically.
Your definition of religion is at best idiosyncratic. At worst, you're just equating Christianity with all of religion.
@@lucyferos205 No. I'm using the word religion to mean what nearly any human has ever meant when saying religion. Fuck off.
There is no such thing as Black Humanisn. We are all humans.
This guy want white people to save black people. Blacks need to save blacks. If God is not acknowledged it's a loss cause.
Religion, As Defined BY GOD, Is TOTALLY DIFFERENT From today’s FALSE doctrinal belief.
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”
James 1:27 KJV
Nonsense