What’s Inside a Saginaw Power Steering Pump?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2020
- I recently had a Saginaw power steering pump failure on my #ETCGDadsTruck build. In this video I tear down the faulty pump to see what the issue was. If you’re curious about how one of these pumps comes apart, what damage to look for during inspection, and how to reassemble it, check out this video.
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Links
Summit Racing: www.summitracing.com
New PS Pump Pulley: www.summitracing.com/parts/MC...
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I grew up in Saginaw. And I spent many hours inside Saginaw Steering Gear where that pump was made. I watched those pump parts being machined, and the pumps being assembled on the assembly line. It was a very high volume operation. Of course they did not come from the factory with that pretty chrome plating, they were all black,
I currently work there (now called Nexteer Automotive) and there's not much hydraulic power steering manufacturing there now. Only for HD Trucks. It's switched over to high volume EPS.
I live there as well. My grandpa worked at steering gear.
I live in Saginaw. Back in the day I worked at the shop that made the pressure plate in that pump. I also worked at the former GM plant that used to make the pumps before they switched to EPS.
Dude you Rock!
Some days I forget how fun it is to disassemble things for fun and info..
He just gets better and better. We come here for the knowledge, but we stay for the company. Thank goodness that there are still people like Eric in the world.
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy You made it look so simple. Very articulate. Sub'd
Great video. I used to rebuild these on some of my old Chevys, but I used this as a refresher course. You showed / mentioned a few things I had forgotten (getting old!), so I'm glad I did. Rebuilding the pump on my 2006 LBZ and can't afford mistakes. It was working fine, just leaking at the shaft seal, so a rebuild kit should do the trick.
From AvE, I learned that pressure is created by volume + flow restriction.
Yep.... Called venturi
Pressure is created by stress upon a fluid. A flowing fluid when restricted will create a pressure in response to the restriction. But you can also create pressure on a fluid in a static cylinder by putting mechanical force on it. I.e. static vs dynamic pressure
I learnt it as a kid by putting my finger over the edge of the garden hose or taps in the house and then getting shouted at for the wet mess lol
Ah yes, the esteemed professor Uncle Bumblefuck
"There is a special tool for disassembling the pump" ... we call it 🔨 Hammer 😁
Very interesting vid! Thanks
Great video. Since that spring takes up tolerance, I'm going to try to resurface the wear faces on the mill just to see if it will fix one!
I was working on an 82 nova which had the motor replaced from a caprice which, unknown to us at the time, the previous owner had installed so after the customer kept bringing us the wrong pump i decided to look at a pump we had laying around from a 90s pick up. Long story short i ended up swapping the high pressure outlet and viola. This just goes to show you sometimes these scenarios like this happen and videos like yours become the solution! Dont stop making videos bro and thanx !!!
That WAS fun. Thanks for the tear down video!
Ah, I finally know what happened with the pulley. I hope the short time the distorted pulley was being used inside the truck did not cause much damage to the pump. Now, you have a better cooling system for the pump, as well. Thanks for the inside look into the bad pump. I'm sure you could rebuild the pump, but having a warranty really saves time and money. I was showing one of my sons, Gabriel, the process you used to determine the fault with your power steering. Mostly, I wanted to show him my interest in watching your videos and how I wanted to do my own repairs, once we get back to the States. His real interest is Architecture. So, there you go. I feel better now. Great job. Jeff
AWESOME VIDEO: MORE THAN ANYONE COULD WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS PUMP! VERY INTERESTING!! THANKS ERIC
Thanks for the video, this definitely help me with pulling my pump apart and replacing all the seals and o-rings.
Excellent video. I've always wanted to know how a PS pump worked and looked inside! Thanks!
Cool😎I never took a power steering pump apart before👍
So March Performance never got back to you on their F'D UP PULLEY ? SUMMIT IS AN OUTSTANDING COMPANY, THANKS SUMMIT ALSO.
Not exactly, but they did pass the buck to Summit.
@@ericthecarguy That's really sad. A company should repair their own defects. Or, perhaps they have a deal with Summit. Either way, I'm glad you're getting a good pulley.
@Jeff Kelley I got the parts from Summit is why they suggested it.
@@ericthecarguy Okay, I mistakenly took it from your description that March Performance was avoiding their responsibility. It makes sense for a consumer to return any part of their purchase to the supplier from which they purchased their main product. Thank you for the reply. So, why the big run-around, is what I am wondering. Although, you do not have to reply to this. I know you stand by Summit. Sometimes misunderstandings boil down to who greets you on the phone or at the counter. I used to be a manager in consumer electronics retail.
Good to know what's inside a power steering pump. Never took one apart before. Thanks.
I just took one of these apart for my 1998 K1500. I discovered that you shouldn't use the hammer method to put the pump back in the reservoir. I accidentally tore the o-ring doing it that way. Instead, just gently pull the two together using the two nuts on the back. Just alternate between each one to evenly pull the pump and reservoir together. For me, I used a deep impact socket and just twisted the socket with my hand, no ratchet or wrench, and use the socket to hand tighten each bolt. Going about a half turn on each nut alternating back and forth.
I was concerned that would warp the case. Another reason I put the bolts in during assembly was also to keep the 'o' rings from coming loose. Thanks for your comment.
@@ericthecarguy I was worried about that too, that's why I just twisted the socket with my hand instead of using a ratchet or wrench. It actually took very little force to get the two to come together.
Your thumbnail was special, and yes, I feel special, too! Thanks for the great video.
Thanks Eric, you should make more videos like this.👍👍👍
That was a way cool video. Love seeing how things work. Thank you sir!
Even with a good pulley, proper belt alignment on these pumps in critical. If alignment is out, the vanes are pulled into the front housing or pushed into the rear and wear out quickly like you saw here.
I've been wondering what the best way to serperate the resorvoir to switch my pumps for a few weeks now. All I had to do was watch this. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for sharing. Stay Safe.
Thanks Erik! Now I know where that magnet goes!
Thanks for showing. I'd always wondered and didn't have to get my hands oily.
Cool, always wondered how power steering pumps worked. My car uses an electric one, I asume that instead of being driven by a pulley, it's driven by an independant electric motor. Really tight tolerances there, no wonder it failed due to the faulty pulley. I hope none of that metal shavings went to the rack though.
Great video Eric, as usual! 👍🏼🙂
Thanks Eric. I have always wonder what was on the inside of a Saginaw pump, now I know.
Cool. I have a nearly identical pump in a '70s Cadillac that's good, but leaks around that big O-ring that encompasses the whole pump. I temporarily fixed it a few years ago with some JB weld smeared around the seam, but it's leaking again and time to fix it properly. Remanufactured parts are often hit and miss, so I wanted to keep the original pump, but I thought I'd need a press and some special jig to get it apart. I'm quite thrilled to see it's possible to do with a hammer.
Had one of these on my P30 motorhome. I pulled it apart and smoothed the pump surfaces on some emerycloth on glass. Smoothed the vein edges the same way. Then, replaced the orings and cleaned everything. Pump was was $900 new from dealer. Got a rebuild kit from local Carquest about $30. Still worked with no leaks after 50k miles. If the spring has no pressure when you remove it then the pump is worthless, don't bother trying to rebuild. the spring keeps the receiver plate tight against the veins.
Curiosity killed the cat lol. Its good to see how these things work also if it was an old vehicle I suspect it would be possible to re-engineer it. I enjoyed watching this pump come apart and finding how it works
Hi Eric I got yearly pumped watching this ,good to see the workings , i’m just about to flush my civic power steering yes I did listen to you Honda fluid only it’s to hot up here in Toronto 34c do later thanks .
Thanks, Eric! I took an Eaton unit aparet and it had small rollers instead of the vanes. Now I know.
Real shit, man! Thanks for uploading!
Yeah... it seems like an unusual failure mode and I agree the misalignment from the pulley is certainly a front runner for possible failure. Well done video Eric!
I have same issue. Happened after I did a minute long burnout I assume I over sped the pump.
That was a very good video without bs, music (as much as love it can do without while trying to pay attention to the video) and a bunch more horsepucky I didn't care about, thank you and just one more thing, I really only wanted to know about the o-rings at the fitting to the check valve assembly & what I could get away with so there'd be no leaks to the outside of it, as it turns out I found a very small leak at the flange on my water pump also so I might as well take care of that now too & check one more video with just a little bit of focus on the o-rings while I clean up the rest of things to be ready to put back together tomorrow, I'll work on one of my motorcycle projects for the rest of the day. I did learn something useful from your video regardless, thanks.
That was cool, I DO feel special, thanks!
Great video Eric. Thank you.
Thank you Eric I always enjoy your videos I am from South Africa
Hello South Africa!
This is a great video I was going to do this to my old Chevy pump to see how it worked
Great video Eric
8:00 did you put the stator ring in upside down? Looks like the 3 diamonds are facing down?
These pumps internally are the same as fitted to Holden Commodores albeit remote reservoir and a few less orings. Best way to get that rear cover on was to stick it in the press and use that and a big socket to hold it down whilst I wrangled that clip on. My first pump was a nightmare, they dislike high RPM, heat, etc so. You didn't remove any orings from the bore also to remove the stator ring, did it just slip past them(trying to gain insight into the design progression)?
Conveniently this general vane pump style only really leaks from that rear plate oring, $1-2 fix for most models. Enough to pass inspection.
Some interesting design notes, on the back of those black diecast bits(i think they're called manifold plates?) are 4 tiny pads which are surface ground first before doing the other side. Saves a lot of time and grinding wheels.
Wonder if you could rehone those faces with a sanding plate? Piece of thick glass and progressive grits, the spring could take up the slight reduction in height(which it does anyway, removes the tolerance stackup issues)
Excellent video. Very detailed.
Thanks a lot Sr. Your videos are Gold !!!!
i rebuilt really lot of those pump saguna in the 80,i was a rebuilder you can get biger rotor and stator for more presure ,but often the low presure issue is cause by valve sticking or crack at that small hole were you remove the clip of cover of the stator or wrong fluid... in the 80 all those part were available at ford
for that power steering pump, seal kits are available for very cheep (28401490 is $18.99 at O'Reilly auto parts at the time of this comment) and the most common failure for that pump is the seal on that plate with the clip you removed with a punch. That seal separates the high pressure side from the low pressure side.
That valve that you took apart is also available for around $38 for an oem acdelco part
also, instead of 2 c-clamps, use a vice or arbor press, it's much easier
Superb video!
LOL I like the almost tongue twister at the end. You should do some outtakes as on some of your previous videos.
You wouldn't believe how hard it is to get a good replacement pump these days. I've had 3 of this exact style pump from different manufacturers (including acdelco) be bad out of the box or within 50 miles and several other ford styles as well. In both cases wound up resealing a used original (dodge or gm) part and have no trouble. Aftermarket steering parts overall seem to be generally terrible these days.
Ive used a ball joint tool it seemed work pretty well
I did learn a lot! Thanx.
Helped greatly with my decision to spend just a few more dollars on a new replacement pump for my ‘07 Silverado. Can’t waste my time with a sketchy rebuild.
Great job
And that's exactly why the pump worked when it was cold, but not when it was hot. The grooves that your fingernail would catch on will get bigger as the pump heats up -- and with such tight tolerances, where even those tiny grooves cause problems, making them larger by any amount will cause the pump to get worse. Precisely the symptoms you were seeing. Cool analysis!
Thank you Ezza
Good job
I like your vids keep them coming. 😊
I was fully expecting that snap ring to fly out into a low earth orbit.
If it was one of us doing that it definitely would've shot out.
Thanks for this video...now I know what I did wrong...
I put the spring in second not first...
I hope you are doing well eric! Sending much love from Texas!
Hello Texas!
Thanks Eric
It's funny how every time I do an unusual job, there's one of my TH-cam subs that end up doing the exact same thing at the same time! 😂 Great vid, Eric!
This is a perfect example of how things aren't built like they used to be. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I recently dismantled and rebuilt my original OE power steering pump in my '86 Grand Marquis with 268k miles on it. Pump still worked, just had a few leaks. Bought a Gates seal kit on RockAuto and installed it. Anyway, what a difference in construction compared to that Saginaw! Mine had springs and slippers with leading and trailing edge - 10x bigger and stronger than those vanes in there. Also 10x more frustrating to get back in place! Also, my snap ring was much thicker with a larger circumference, and much more difficult to extract. I wanted to keep the OE unit, so I dealt with the frustration of this overhaul. I wonder if a rebuilt unit at any parts store would be built this same way? I think I know the answer to that, so I didn't dare take a chance. It just amazes me that there were metals available in 1986 that could withstand this repeated cycling for decades on end without failure! Too bad automakers don't care to use these high quality components in ANYTHING anymore. Imagine how many cycles each spring has seen! Just at idle that thing is spinning at 6-700 RPM. There's probably 8,000+ hours of runtime on this engine!! Amazing.
I'm going on day 7 of trying to edit that mess of a video. I need a new computer ... or someone who knows how the hell to fix it! Even the people who built it (Apple) are no help! Everything works except my pictures and video editing stuff - slow as molasses in January ... through dial up internet! $4,000 for the new setup I want, so that's a big holdup ... 🤢
Flow control valve is adjustable and is key to pressure output. Washers under nut- add/subtract.
I'm thinking about using a Saginaw pump as a dry sump oil pump for a remote turbo setup so thanks . I'm not so much worried about the pressure/gallons but if the housing/pump can handle oil well compared to ps fluid.
Pressure in a hydraulic system is a result of resistance to flow.
Yep. :-) People think pumps make pressure. They don't. Pumps make flow. Pressure (as you said) is a resistance to that flow. Some fun facts.
Hydraulics is like electricity in most ways. Think of electrical current as flow, and voltage as pressure and will be clear. So, for pipes/wires, as the current/flow increases, so the pipe/wire must be bigger. As the pressure/voltage increase the pipe wall thickness/wire insulation must increase. For a constant flow/current, as the pressure/voltage increases, the resultant transmitted power also increase (and visa-versa)... Check valve = diode, pilot operated check valve = transistor (or relay), accumulator = capacitor, filter = inductor, flow restrictor = resistor, intensifier = transformer (sort of), pump = battery... Fun!
Thank you
Very good information, but I was wondering why rhere are two input lines lower preassure
Nice video Eric keep up the good work ive learn alot from watching your videos future UTI student
Thank you! Good luck in school and with your career.
Love your videos my mechanical time was back when you actually rebuilt your wheel cylinders , starters and alternators instead of the throw away society we live in now...lol Great learning what was inside the power steering pump never had one apart before.
The last i saw you was when you were looking into a new shop. then youtube canceled my subscription. at least that is what i figured out.
I've just rebuilt the power steering pump on my 1991 Jaguar Sovereign XJ40 and while the outside of the casing is different, with a remote reservoir, the inside is exactly the same.
The British Triumph Stag used this brand of pump. The rebuild kit costs about 10$. When reassembling the pump, one piece looks symmetrical, but has an arrow on it and has to go back the right way.
Thanks good job
Good to know.
Saginaw is a city in Szechuan province, it may be tough to get parts :)
Same design pump as is in the 700R4/4L60 transmissions. Wonder if they use the same veins?
I love automotive autopsies. 👍
how do you check he pressure on the power steering pump? do you nead a special tool?
Thanks for your reply. Andre
Hello Eric, I just picked up a 1988 460 EFI it appears to have a Sag. pump would you think it has a restrictor
Hi Eric
These kind of pumps never fails it last long.. only you need to use fine emery paper to flatten that groove you noticed with ur finger n clean entire the parts with kerosene or petrol gasoline and pay attention to the screen filter and pressure control valve and its spring both of these should be cleaned deeply n nicely , and thats all you have done.. don't forget to use Vaseline jell to make your work much easier.. nevermind of the wearing its normal.. thanks
That scoring was most likely caused by the pump ingesting debris such as metal chips and dirt. I recommend flushing the lines and rack before installing your new pump. Had the pulley been the culprit, I would think that it would have caused a bearing failure or bent the shaft.
I had a van a few years ago with a noisy power steering pump. One day the power steering completely failed and there was no power steering at all. I took the pump apart and found that the spline was stripped on the shaft inside the pump.
GM used that same pump for many years. My 1964 Chevelle had one just like it. Not chrome, of course.
Etcg does AvE...
Love it
In the case that scoring was caused by grit, it may have damaged the box as well. They have tighter tolerance than the pumps do.
can you do what's inside a power steering gear box? and how to rebuild or just set one correctly?
What's inside? Power of course.
I'll show myself out.
Was thinking of using dexron6 or redline d4 I switched to psf but original fluid looked red but very dirty I'm getting some noise now (bled air also) think of using atf any suggestions?
Great videoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!! :D
At 8:28 I can check that one off the bucket list... Watching a monkey making a pigskin squeal, check... I'm very easily entertained in a twisted kind of way... Lol. Just messing with ya... I've never seen the inner workings of a power steering pump until now, great upload BTW
Eric is there truth to adding washer the valve or taking the washer out so it creates more pressure
I’m from Saginaw Michigan where steering gear is. Or as it’s called today Nexteer
The pump creates a flow, but it also creates a high pressure zone between it and the valve. The valve serves to restrict flow to maintain a pressure differential across it and the vent. This type of pump is pressure controlled. They also make pumps that are flow controlled and will drive at varying pressures to try and match a guaranteed flow.
Did you have access to get a sanding block to the back plates of that pump mechanism? If you could have sanded those groves out I bet you could have made it work again. it looks like that back plate could vary in position for a varying thickness pump assembly.
In basic terms, that scoring you saw caused excessive leakage. Those metal fins aren't the greatest at sealing, but because we contained the leakage paths, they don't have to seal perfectly, just enough. The grooves served as too much seperation though and allowed for excessive leakage.
Eric, I am wondering if the thinning of the fluid due to overheating may have contributed to this failure. What is the maximum temperature rating for a power steering fluid? Since the back plate is just spring-loaded maybe you could help it by removing a bit of that scoring with some stone. Btw, I enjoy these disassembly videos the most cause I believe understanding how it works and what's inside is the key to the success....
The fluid seemed to run about 170º before I installed the cooler. I don't think that was excessive. See last weeks video linked in the description. I think the bent pulley was the root cause.
In my experience, there is no fixing machined parts with sanding or filing by hand.
Eric which part makes the annoying whine sound? The vanes?
Just commenting because I'm from Saginaw and it's rare to see us mentioned lol.
Hello Eric love your content.
Just wondering can you polish the bad areas in the pump to repair it ?
Not likely. As the manual states, "replace the entire assembly".
If you have a surface grinder you could grind those surfaces back to spec and it would work
Hey Eric I just purchased a Saginaw pump and installed it on my car it is a key way shaft with the Nilon nut the bolts the pulley on and I noticed it had around 1/8 play in and out, is this normal?
I had a rebuilt ps pump.installed in my honda from the dealer. I had a problem with random loss of power steering. Even almost crashed. Went back to the shop and got another pump installed. Lol.
Could you do a video about a Saginaw steering gear? My lifted, big tire 4x4 Dodge needs a rebuild!😂
Yup, that thing was fried! Cool vid! Now I want to go digging through my junk pile & strip 1 apart... purely for the science of course! (Not because I like tearing things apart or anything).