Wheel of Time Episode Two Deep Dive (A Promising Step)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024
- My thoughts on episode 2 of #TheWheelOfTime show over at Amazon!
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Lan: don't touch anything
Mat: I've already touched seven things
Yes...
God damn...
Deadpool: I'm touching myself tonight
Mat is an impulsive person. Later he becomes more cautious. His intelligence comes to the fore as he become a little more cautious.
@@bobc538 there is a big difference between being impulsive and just not listening and/or using your brain though...
@@dohtje5029 True also in the books the knife was presented in a different way and he was younger albeit no less interested in money.
I felt that Bornhald telling Moraine to go get healing was a way to show the divisions in the White cloaks. Bornhald doesn't like Aes Sedai, but he's willing to put it aside because he serves the Light, and someone dying needlessly would be a disservice to the light. Valda is a zealot, and wouldn't do that. This sets up later book events with a specific character.
Was thinking the same. I have always read the ‘good’ Whitecloaks as being misguided but on the side of the light, they will look the other way. Where as the Questioners have always been evil.
I definitely agree with this. Especially since he made his general distaste for it known
Valda is played so god damn well. I love to hate him, he's so....Joffery-like.
I get what they are doing with it but it feels just too over the top, and the lack of subtlety just ruins it for me. It just feels to me that they are bringing in that plot thread and crossing it with the main one too soon.
@@Iceman-135 oh yes, some mad acting skills and charisma
I love how the Emond Fielders sing about Manetheran but don’t even know who Manetheran is lol. It speaks so well to Jordan’s books that history is often forgotten by people
Yet they had Mat's (who had the strongest Manathern Blood of the Emond's 5) Da hide like a coward when the Trollocs attacked and his daughters life were in grave danger. The man who taught Mat to be the best in the world with a quarterstaff and who could even best Tam. BS... they didn't think this arc through whatsoever.
And a good way to add some worldbuilding to the show that didn't feel forced.
@@brianjacobs1283 they needed the characters to have some depth... in the books all their families are perfect. Not compelling. Welcome change.
@@mattosgood28 it's not a welcome change. It's a disaster for the character and story. We wouldn't want the idea that strong families have positive out comes. The concept is that these kids started off innocent and uncorrupted by the outside world. It's a terrible change.
@@gamerman782 it felt so forced. You know where it wouldn't have felt forced, if she told the story to the villagers after the attack to stiffen their spines and resolve, Like in the books. These people are not better writers than Rober Jordan. They write as a committee for shifty made for TV dramas. Their changes are unnecessary and stupid. The adapt for TV rational makes no sense for these changes.
As someone who hasn't read the books, my biggest takeaway has been "I've only known Lan for 3 episodes, but if anything happens to him I will kill everyone in this room then myself.
Lan is definitely a fan-favorite character
As someone who has read the books countless times, it is sooooooo tempting to give spoilers. But I won't. All I'll share is my reaction. At one point, something happened, and I nearly lost it. My friends all ran into the room and found me weeping, nearly wailing, over the pages of a book. Can you imagine the eye-rolls? Glad that the "Lan takeaway" translated into the series. Because he's just pure awesome.
IDK how any red blooded female could NOT be a fan of Lan after the pre-hot tub scene in Ep 1.
Great to know that Daniel is doing a good enough job to portray the awesome Lan that all us book fans have loved forever
Just saying Lan didn’t come here to live
No one gonna mention that sick intro?! That tapestry art was breathtaking!! The scenery, the seven ajahs, the colors, the threads, the massive tapestry coming from a wheel at the centre
Also those White cloaks looking sharp AF!
Yessss the intro is so beautiful
It always gives me the option to skip it and I never will
before it was revealed it was the 7 Ajahs been depicted I thought one of them was the Queen of Caemlyn and the other Daughter of the nine moons/Seanchan Empress
That's how I think the one power magic should of looked like. Threads being woven.
100% game of thrones, but that is absolutely fine because that intro may be the goat
Intro is so sicc
When Egwene calls Rand a bastard instead of a wool headed sheep herder, that's when I knew this was a different turning of the wheel.
Same. I'm also waiting for "blood and bloody ashes" but fear we might not get it. Too bad because those details are easy to incorporate and add to the world building.
I really think they should’ve let her call him a woolheaded sheep herder at this point, and maybe later she can call him a bastard.
Frankly if they wanted to include real-world curses I'd have just taken "wool-headed, sheepherding bastard"
Why use it with her when they should save that for Min?
shes actually right on the money.
The nynaeve scene at the end of episode two, all I could think was, "what's this? A ranger caught off his guard?"
Same!
Maybe a reference? Considering that Lan shares a lot of similarities with Aragorn.
A ranger? Lan is a Warder. Getting your ip's mixed up methinks.
Very much so. I didn’t like this scene.
How could Nynaeve sneak up like that? And evermore so, how did she track them beyond the frantic escape from Shadar Logoth?
@@Kopp203 have you seen lotr? I was quoting it.
Nynaeve showing up with full "I want to speak to the manager" energy
LMAO
Notice how Mat is looking back and seeing everyone being pretty sullen and deep in their own thouths before he starts singing.
Like he sees his friends are in a bad place and wants to cheer them up with the strong implication they have sung this song plenty of times together. Its these little details that sell these characters to me. You learn so much about them, even without their dialoge.
LOL right there with you... i was like.... "DROP IT! DROP IT! ... OH CRAP,"
Can't believe we've already lost Barney as Mat. He's done a really good job, and I'll be sad to see him go.
Fr he's almost exactly what I pictured Matt looking like with the sort of circles under his eyes and slightly messy hair
Marcus Rutherford: so subtle, but so excellent. He has to work a very tough emotional roll on top of someone who is extremely cerebral, and he is performing splendidly.
One of the best of the show 👏😩
I actually like the fact that the whitecloak told her to seek out an Aes Sedai. To me, it felt like he in a polite way said "only one of those witches can save you now"
It also shows the viewer that these are not just flat out bad guys, but there's actually some sort of dynamic to whitecloaks. I honestly feel that this enhanced the opening scene.
Yeah that was my take too. I like that white cloaks have a bit of a dynamic. It gives them a tad bit of nuance that I think is good to set them up with.
Also the fact that Bornhald is one of the few whitecloaks you can sort of respect in the books.
I took it more as trying to get a reaction out of Moraine to glean her stance on Aes Sedai.
Totally agree. It shows more clearly that there is somewhat of a divide among the Whitecloaks. There is the total nutcases (Inquisitors) and very religious ones that will always put their religion first and take the death of innocents as par for the course and there are the more pragmatic, honorable ones who still believe but also adhere to a code of honor. And because they see themselves as the good guys telling someone that only an aes sedai can heal them doesn't feel out of place for that type of whitecloak. Wasn't the questioner that said it after all.
True. I still think its a bit of a stretch for any Whitecloak to say something like that within earshot of his men much less in the presence of a Questioner.
What I like most about Perrin's portrayal is that you can see him struggling every time someone mentions his wife being killed by the trollocs, and wanting to confess his axe strike
I still think she was a Darkfriend. She had the hammer raised to strike and Perrin was the only thing in front of her. And then in the dream a wolf was eating her. What do wolves hate? Creatures of the dark.
I can't disagree. There was tension in the "I love you", "I know" scene completely opposite from Empire
BUT... he didn't seem to pick up on that, and is guilt ridden
@@breese42 I agree with the Dark Friend theory and the hammer was raised, though I believe the wolf in his dream was supposed to portray his guilt in killing her.
@@breese42 could be, but how could we ever know besides someone telling him she was? Seems like it would be clunky exposition.
The other "storyboarding" issue I had with the Shadar Logoth entrance was the way that the horse packed a sad when they got to the walls and stopped a dead gallop because they no likey. Then 2 seconds later they're just casually trotting into the city.
I think the wolves tried to scare them into running, then they came to him in his dream. After that they just started following. And made angry noises when Perrin and Egwene turned the wrong way. They were hiding them best they could. It was done masterfully
Moiraine in this episode was just perfect. She's so ruthlessly pragmatic. Also loving the threat escalation of traditional book cannon fodder in all 3 episodes (whitecloak goons, lower tier shadowspawn and darkfriends). Their constant failures in 14 books trivialise them on paper but on screen I'm buying them. Can't wait to hear your take on Rand and Mat in episode 3, probably my favourite sub-arc of the show so far.
Agree, about the whitecloaks, just wish they showed more of them.
The only complaint I have about moiraine is, in the book, she’s a very short woman. But it’s no biggie. I still loved her character.👍
We make that far Ituralde and Maradon will be freaking the best fantasy battle put to screen of the generation.
I knew Matt was a dick in the beginning, but man the way he is portrayed is so much more annoying.
I really liked the comment to the whitecloaks "I'm a lady from a fallen house." Biggest Easter egg so far IMO."
The best part is the guy with the fire for eyes showing up in their dreams. Thought they were gonna omit that but thank god they added it I love the conversations in those dreams 🙌🏼 I’m assuming they’re ending the show with the beginning of book 2 which thank god I’m already halfway done
If they end it there I don't know how they will finish the series with only 8 seasons (which apparently is the specific number they're aiming for), though I've heard you can condense The Slog quite effectively, so who knows. I'm guessing they'll cover a bit more in this season than just book 1 though.
@@jossecoupe446 they are only doing the first three books. They are filming season 2 at the moment :)
Man, it has been a while since I've read the books but I remember him having a cloak and a hood. And I imagined him as more terrifying. It feels especially underwhelming after how great the Fade looked. Don't get me wrong I am loving the show so far, I understand the changes they had to make(except for Perrin's) but he didn't look that great.
Looks pretty good to me
@@Fabio-hc9bv What do you mean they're ONLY doing the first three books? Why would they not keep going if the show's doing well?
I like that they're holding back on the Fade(s). They haven't fought it yet and it's just been *menacing* in the background. Good choice; I think they're fought and beaten way to early in the books.
@Jannes Ebeling Lan is an absolute boss, so it's fair.
@@varenoftatooine2393 true, but it makes it significantly less threatening
I really hope the fade talks and they show that they are actually intelligent and not just beasts.
@@the_well-known_stranger2275 Yeah, even the trollocs could speak, so I want more from the creatures. Also, i hope they add Draghkar in the first season.
@@alexklozano agreed, I hope they show some of the intelligence of the shadowspawn.
Bro, everyone is talking about the acting, and the plot, and how its different from the book, and this parts good this one isn't, but can we just take a moment to appreciate the soundtrack and music of this show, every scene is so greatly depicted by the music. The scary scenes, the dream, the wolves, Winter's night, the scenes of them just traveling, I mean I feel like its just not appreciated enough!
I haven't read the books, and I've been watching the show with my partner, who's read all of them. As soon as we saw that knife in Shadar Logoth, I was like "NAAAHHH, I've played enough dnd to know a cursed item when I see one!" Cue my partner absolutely mcfreakin losing it 🤣
Yeah, that's the best word i'd use for the show so far, Promising.
Once it gets the heavy lifting of lore and exposition done it's free to Wheel the hell out of some Time
Is it doing heavy lifting of lore? It felt more like very lightweight lifting
Promising because it can't get much worse
@@hanyolo382 I feel like it could've been a thousand times worse I feel like a 75% is what its at now when it can defiantly go to a 100% in one episode.
@@bookswithpayton3201 I guess, it depends on the episode but these changes have long term effects. Rafe is just the wrong producer he's "woke" and God damn if it doesn't show lol. This story didn't need to he revised to make it pg for audiences today it was already pro women, pro everyone.
@@bookswithpayton3201 they would have to flip the script on how they are approaching the show. They are ignoring world building and character development in order to fly through the plot. I think 75% is far too generous
For all the "run from the wolves" scenes I was basically yelling at my TV:
"Nooo Perrin the wolfies are your FRIEEEEENDS"
I'm just waiting for these two moments in some capacity: "We come." and "Then we hunt, brother."
I was waiting for Elias to introduce them but I guess he just got cut from the show
@@heatherkelley334 you think he got cut??? I’ve been waiting too, but I’m the books Perrin’a eyes had already changed when he met the Tu’athan
OMG YES
Anyone living in or near a forest would know that trying to outrun a wolf will only make die tired. One of more retarded episodes in the show, along with the villagers picking up wet wood for the campfire, I would expect it from a gay city hipster.
I hate that we're losing Barney. Out of all the actors when I first saw him I thought "that is Mat" and wow has he delivered on the character. He's brought an entirely different side to the character and it really works. I really like all these actors but Barney is just owning the screen.
Legit.
Why are we losing him?
@@ShadowofGod616 we don't know right now. He's already been recast
@@Iffmeister I wonder if we'll ever find out why he was recast. All we know is that it happened, we don't know if it was Barney's decision or if it was the showrunners'. I really want to know
@@Iffmeister what?! Recast??
One detail I loved from this episode is the absolute silence when Rand “wakes up” in the dream. There are no sound effects or music. Just the noises Rand makes. It makes the scene instantly unsettling.
The Shows Dream Serve no purpose. they are pointless. by season 2 people will be asking why are they having these Dreams?
Regarding Moiraine's wound, I started to notice her body language change and she seemed to be hugging herself.
I thought it was weird and wondered if she was cold, then it hit me that I've been spoiled by wounds in fiction and she is still carrying a festering wound from episode 1.
I think the trolloc weapons being cursed also had something to do with it. But you're right, they shrug that stuff off in most media
The more I see mat, the more I love Harris's acting, the more nervous I feel about Finn having to step into some massive shoes.
Barney has really been the stand out actor to me so far. It really is a shame we're losing him.
Do we know why barney is leaving?
We don't. They've avoided discussing it but I think it's fair to say the speculation that he wasn't up to the role were definitely wrong. I just hope for him it was a positive career move and not because of health or other personal reasons.
@@brandontaylor3252 agreed. It’s a sad change, but no use getting upset about it.
I loved his facial expression when he picks up the dagger in Shadar Logoth.
When they encounter the whitecloaks and are told to get off their horses, Mat just sits still at first and I love it
I’m a serious Matt fan ( not fangirl fan) and I was so happy with the actor. I hope no one else bails or
gets yeeted.
Also where is Bella? You know the shaggy horse ? We need that horse people! We need it!
@@roolenoir3183 she should have been with Perrin and Egwene when they escaped but have not seen her since they escaped the broken city. I was telling my wife the same thing, she is PIVOTAL through all the books.
The idea that the wolves only barked in Perrin's head wasn't obvious to me. It seemed like they were actually barking. I don't feel strongly about it, but it seems more inconsistent than it seems psychological.
They are always near him so we hear the howl. How can a show even portray thoughts?
I didn't view it so much as Perrin's thoughts and more as his natural interpretation of wolves as a threat when they clearly weren't, he was still in shock and confused by the situation and hasn't understood his powers yet.
Yes, same here. It just came across as odd to me
My guess was that the wolves smelled Perrin's blood but also Trolloc poison, and I know from the books that wolves *hate* the smell of Trollocs. So I guessed that's why they were hostile at first.
I thpught it was them trying to talk to him and him not understanding them.
I did really miss them meeting that certain someone in Shadar Logoth, I feel like it's such an important thing for later stuff but I also understand they only have so much time and can probably tie it to the dagger instead.
It's especially important for the Padan Fain storyline.... which they've already skipped past twice by shipping Baerlon and Caemlyn. I hope they don't minimize (or outright remove) his arc!
History student here: If I were looking at the White cloaks anthropologically: The armour on them seems to be more of a statement of intent rather than people who've armoured themselves for protection. They're trying to give off the impression 'we are strong, we are prepared, we are powerful' but armour like that is only really as useful as it is, if you see what I mean. Basically it would not be as effective as a shield, arrows could still pierce it, but also arrows could pierce their clothes. The impression this gives is the same impression that ceremonial guards of the British Queen give (the guys with the big hats) or the small breastplates that German generals wore pre-nazism. They're wearing armour as a symbol of who they are, rather than to be strictly protective. They can still protect themselves, but they're not expecting a fight. I'd love to see the show back this up by having them be more armoured when going to battle or war.
@Jannes Ebeling sure, but it helps, you also don't need a physics degree to talk about quantum theory, but if you have one you'll be better.
@@johnmacdonald9861 I love it when ninjas wear chain mail. It's great and really makes things historically accurate in battle.
@@neiana what ?
White Cloaks are not Monks. This is So Bad
It wouldn't be hard to gear them up either, in terms of "this is what we wear when intimidating peasants, and our battle gear is in the carts over there" kind of thing. Shiny chainmail and a helmet will be enough to make the guys on horses into light cavalry. Give the footmen shields as well and they'll be pretty good infantry. I get that they wouldn't want to wear chainmail all the time, that stuff is heavy. Hope they show that they have better gear suited to battle, because this is the equivalent of ceremonials and a sidearm in modern terms.
Everybody riding in silence
Mat : Now would be a good time to sing 😂
I was like classic Mat. So far my fav
To dance with jack of the shadows
So, the wolf thing is also a problem working with real canines on set!
They can be given a cue to growl or snarl, but unless something has gone horribly wrong they’re actually just excited because they know they will be getting good-boy/girl treats after
They ARE good boys and girls so I fail to see the problem.
No questions.
They gotta cgi out all those wagging tails
My sister hasn't read the books and I convinced her to watch. And my 3 favorite reactions from her so far are... (And a mild maybe spoiler)
1. "I hate the guy in white." At the very beginning of the episode, so only meeting him the once.
2. She's very into the cheekbones on the cast.
3. She's catching LOTR references which is so appropriate to the books.
.
.
.
Also, as of episode 1 she has decided Egwene is the dragon reborn and I love it.
Good thing the show is actually less clear with the hints then the books are.
Love it all! And she's not wrong about those cheekbones! If I slapped any one of them, I get a cut on my hand! them bones are so sharp!
Well Egwene has obvious powers so...
Same. My lady says it’s a toss up between “the red headed guy” and “the river girl”. I love hearing about her impressions. She asked if the guy in white was the dark lord. She then asked if the fade was the dark lord. I’m liking the show
This is one of many reasons why I love the way the show has articulated the threat of the Dragon. That's freaking awesome.
When Mat went to pick up the dagger, I got the impression that he was in a trance. He went directly toward the dagger, as if the power had already taken him and led him straight to the tool that would entice him the most.
I haven't read a single word of the books, and I was absolutely enthralled by Weep For Manetheren. That's the moment I knew this show was something special. Rosamund's performance is immaculate, and it's such a bold choice to have a solid 5 minutes of pure lore, I couldn't believe it.
The way Moiraine tells the story and cycles through about a dozen different emotions, while clearly in pain and fatigue from her wounds, is a truly inspiring performance.
Her delivery of every single word is so captivating that as an actor I want to commit that whole scene to memory much like I decided to learn Hamlet's 4th soliloquy.
Thank you for keeping your reviews free of book spoilers!💜
if you like the series don't read the book. the stories arent even similar at this point. Just enjoy the show as it is.
@Chris Ellis agreed, on it being different. Disagree on don't read the books. Lol. This is more like a dumb fan fiction than the wheel of time.
Anyone else tear up during the Manetheran speech?
I’m not even a WOT super fan, I DNF’d the books around book 8 but dang that scene got me. So well shot and acted
That was good.
Was very happy they axed the flaming color guard routine from the books. Also that song was 🔥
Sounds like you got slogged. I will say that Knife of Dreams and the Sanderson books really up the pace.
@@CoconutMigrating I did. Started listening at 1.5 speed and got through another book and a half of slog then stopped again cause I had something else to listen to. Will return to finish. I think what got me is I love camaraderie and friendship and tight knit groups (the fellowship, Bridge 4, the mighty, etc), and everyone in WOT hates and distrusts each other haha. Which just got tiring to me
Yep. Definitely some tears. I'm glad they added Moiraine's Manetheren speech too!
“I’ll try and condense the video.” Please don’t! I love hearing your thoughts on these. I have to admit I watched all 3 eps at work so I didn’t catch everything that happened, and your insight into Perrin’s interactions with the wolves was actually really appreciated bc I was slightly confused.
The bat scene …. holy shit.
Having originally read Eye of the World back in 97...I've loved these characters ever since...and while you and many folks in the comments have legit criticisms, I can forgive the show for them because I never thought in my life time I would ever get a live action version of this!.....we are more lucky than unlucky as fans
Bad acting, bad writing, and bad directing is still bad, so yea, as a book fan from 1990, I am very unlucky as a fan.
@@Hieroglyph777 you've made 148 comments since the creation of your TH-cam account and all of them are negative. So forgive me if I don't take you seriously professional troll
@@jodyb2924 Typical Leftist response, when someone speaks Truth they counter with Lies, its almost like modern leftists have adopted scientologists playbook.
@@Hieroglyph777 I haven't actually...I've only commented 5 times on Daniel videos. Sorry you aren't enjoying the show as much the rest of us. Have a good day
@@jodyb2924 Sure you have, sure. You've never read the books.
I thought it was interesting that as soon as Mat picked up the Dagger in Shadar Logoth it triggered the blackness that kills the horse, clearly connected to Lan’s comment about not touching anything. I would have liked to see them spend more time inside of Shadar Logoth and the Myrddraal forcing the Trollocs inside the walls after the group.
Your last statement touches on my biggest complaint about this episode, and goes back to something Daniel said in his Ep. 1 deep dive -- the pacing sucked. We really don't get the build up to Shadar Logoth that it deserves. In the books, there's a bit more debate, "Gandalf v Gimli re Moria" style. And then we spend a LOT more time actually in Shadar Logoth, getting slowly more creeped out and unsettled. They could have gone way deeper in the show, really played up the "watchers" from the book, and made it feel more impactful. As it was, the entire sequence was underwhelming and disappointing.
@@Meldon44 my husband (who has never read the books) was so intrigued by shadar logoth, he actually complained that the place seemed to have history and a lot more to it he wished the characters had spent more time there. I felt the same it was a lost opportunity.
@@lizzie7654 it's revisited later on, way later
I’m very nervous about Barney Harris leaving after doing such a good job so far. The new guy has a lot to live up to
wait- why is he leaving?
@@user-fy3nr7ei6b no one knows yet. He dropped all social media and just disappeared into the night
@@user-fy3nr7ei6b I read somewhere it has something to do with him refusing ti get vaccinated
@@schwaben4120 aww really?? :(( do you have a link to where you read about it?
Did anyone else hear the creepy whistling right before Mat goes out and finds the dagger? Reminded me of a certain peddler. 👀
Yeah, pretty sure they added that whistling on purpose. I watched it again and it's very similar to when somebody is riding their cart.
Subtitles really just said: OMINOUS VOICES FADE OUT
Yeah it also seemed like Mat was following the shadow of a person idk if anyone else spotted that so maybe hints at what that certain peddler might encounter 👀
I’m so glad they went as violent as they did with this show. The books are fairly graphic and great at having the reader depict a brutal image, so I’m incredibly pleased with that aspect. I can’t wait to see Dumai’s Wells portrayed.
Blood and bloody ashes, yes! I was worried they would PG-13 Dumai's Wells, but now I know it will be the literal "meat grinder" RJ depicted it as.
He doesn't really get that graphic until Dumai's Wells, which is when the tone of the book changes..
I didnt realize how much of a horror story this was until my second read of the book..
Im glad they aren't being pg-13, but the build up of violence will be hard to do when you start like this..
@@falseprophet1024 agreed. The pacing of things is so off.
I think that horse death was one of the most horrifying things I’ve seen in a while hahaha I am not okay
have you ever seen Return to Oz growing up? theres a similar scene and that horse death reminded me of it. so it legit horrified me :P
😭
Yeah I think Bella was sent to a farm too
I'm still traumatized by Artax’s death in the neverending story.
I saw a comment on IG someone said they were dissappointed and Shadar Logoth was underwhelming, so that was what I expected. When I watched that part, OMG it was more horrifying than any time I read about it in the books.
Hi Daniel, love the channel! The Whitecloak's armour sleeve looks like Thracian gladiator armour from the Roman arenas. Would be effective to protect the sword arm when using a shield in the other.
I really enjoy the distinction they're making between the Questioners and the average Whitecloaks. That fear level difference and then Valda's even more psychotic level is going to be very interesting!
The show has a D&D vibe that I love: level 1 adventurers flirt with the tavern keep, kill the horse, split the party. Perfect!
i'm not sure if seeing it this way ruined it for me or has made it more entertaining
@@cromperer Even reading the books, that's how I've felt.
I agree with you and think it is mind over reality when you look at the way the soundtrack progresses in that scene. When the wolf comes up to him especially, it's like the musical version of a sigh of relief imo
I know why they dropped 3 episodes... because it took until the end of episode 3 to finish building the world and set the hook for episode 4. Combined episode rating, 8.5
Yep. I feel it's gonna be amazing the rest of the season. I honestly love this show.
Looking forward to episode 6 which Brandon Sanderson said was awesome based off the script
Your thoughts on the Egwene/Moiraine discussion is SPOT on and I loved it.
I really enjoyed scene with Valda trying to question Moiraine and actually it's great foreshadowing for people who didn't read the books. As you said, she told Whitecloaks the truth and actually presented important parts of her own backstory, but without proper context. It's kind of great and finally I felt someone in the team really understands source material.
No need to condense we will all happily listen to several hours discussion per episode!!! Sooooo excited to see more! Great start to the series. Mat is the best!
I was DISGUSTED by the Whitecloaks, and I loved it. Definitely in keeping with the time of the Whitecloaks, and how they view Aes Sedai!
Thanks for doing the deep dives! I really like getting your thoughts on the episodes. The cast is easily the best part of the show for me - all of the performances are SO GOOD.
I felt like it was conveyed that Mat was being lured towards the knife. To me, I saw that he was dazed as he followed the shadow he saw into that rubble. I haven’t read The Wheel of Time but I have read my fair share of fantasy, and I think that they are doing really well with the show so far, with the world setting and character building. It is rare to find a fantasy show that immerses the viewer in the span of 3 episodes, but this show did. Meanwhile, it took me till the end of season 1 to be immersed into the world of GoT, and probably half way through The Witcher to connect with it.
I was sooo confused when they met the whitecloaks inthe woods, and then we entirely skipped Baerlon and I was shocked. The show continues to be heavily condensed and I don't know if they can keep it up like that.
Baerlon serves no core plot related benefit at this point. Skip it. There's 2000+ named characters in the books. You're going to have to get used to that being cut down to like 300 for the show.
@@carlsinclair5954 No
@@KCSamurai go read the books then
@@QurikOfficial What are you 12, why don't you not read the comments then
They skipped A LOT of the journey. But I think they did that to try to establish other things. And, ***spoiler alert*** they skip a lot of this first leg of the journey to get everyone to Tar Valon and establish the white tower and what that's like and they're trying to mislead new viewers who might think Mat Cauthon or Nynaeve is the Dragon. Which I think is pointless. But I think they're likely to send the characters back to Caemlyn and other places to develop things they skipped over.
Personal take, I read the "why don't you lift me" as a small first step of what is going on with Matt.
Kinda sad, but I understand why, there was a city, and an introduction missed.
@hawkthorn33 And a few minutes later when Rand says something to the effect of "we can't just leave the others" and Mat (essentially) replies "watch me".
I think they established that Padan Fain was a spy. He grinned when the trolloc attack started and then left fairly calmly.
Almost immediately after that, you see the Fade turn it's head to one side - I think it was acknowledging him slipping away.
oh. I just read that as "not my problem, byeee" because he clearly follows just his interests and what gives him money etc, not caring about theft or murder... I didn't understand he was the cause as well
@@kousetsuhana His whistling is used as a sound cue for when the shadowspawn show up. There's a lot of subtle work being done, but I think it's easily missed if you're not looking for it.
Ngl, I’d love to have the audiobooks narrated both by Rosamund Pike and whoever plays Geofram Bornhald
Half of your wish is coming true 😊
After listening to Michael and Kate narrate them, and I loved them, I'm curious to see how it goes.
I’m currently listening to Rosamund Pike’s version of The Eye of the World on audible. 32 Hours!! Her voice will calm any stressful situation. A great adaptation so far.
@@ysabellatrix need some tips to get into audiobooks
@@kvikasgoud805 I used to hate audiobooks. But since having a full-time job and very little time to read, audiobooks became a great way to unwind. I listen to them on the commute to and from work as well as at the end of the day.
Every time you want to listen to music, why not try an audiobook. Close your eyes and imagine the setting in your mind whilst being read to.
"Why don't YOU pick me" is the very first sign of Mat's paranoia, he fears being left out
I noticed a new musical score played when the wolves licked Perrin's wound, totally hope it means that the trio will have their own themes for the big moments.
Looks like they do! I checked Spotify today and that song is titled, "Al'Cair Sei (Goldeneyes)." 🤘
Regarding the question of using an armored arm as a sort of shield... kind of. Even a smaller dulled sword can hit incredibly hard if the wielder is
well trained and you could get some broken bones, so you have to be careful about relying on your arm as a shield because it really depends
on the situation. Since most weapons are not very sharp you can grab them or wrap them in order to sort of tangle your opponent, or throw up an arm to guard against a glancing blade blow that isn't very powerful. You could do it without armor but the metal burs and stuff would make it hard to hold onto without shredding some skin. You probably wouldn't want to use just your arm as a shield against a heavy attack unless as a last ditch effort to avoid worse injury to the rest of you. It doesn't make a ton of sense to only put armor on your arm/shoulder UNLESS you're going to be in a shield wall or something and are running low on armor or it's too hot to be in full kit or something like that. If you were in some position where you can use something to block attack to most of your body you could then armor just the bits that are the most in danger. People seem to think arm/shoulder armor looks cool so you often see people only wearing that even if it doesn't make much sense. In the case of White Cloaks if they are mainly fighting aes sedai then a lot of armor probably doesn't do them much good against magic, so my guess is the shoulder armor was more ornamental than functional. That would explain why they come in different colors, probably to show rank. They may also have some leather/padding under their robes. They're not wearing helmets cause Hollywood hates helmets unless it's for backup characters lol :-D It may also be a way to show their hubris, as if they feel so justified in their path that they don't need much protection because right is on their side.
As a woman, I can confirm that watching a man invade a woman's space and get that touchy feely with her is extremely uncomfortable on a very visceral level. For me it's not simply just an invasion of her space as one person to another, there is an underlying threat that I think many women (sadly) have learned to recognize and fear. I also think that's part of why Lan made his threat. The white cloak was straight up being pervy in more ways than one, but being a whitecloak, he feels justified and therefore no guilt.
It's also ironic that Moiraine was told to seek out healing from an aes sedai... considering it was a yellow (healer) aes sedai that they just burned in their camp. They obviously don't care how the aes sedai use their power if even healers are burned alive.
I totally agree with your points about the arm/shoulder armor. Its moslty for estatics then any kind of protection haha Especially if other parts of your body arent really covered in armor. Specifically the head, throat and chest area. Since weapon hits mostly slide off armor or brake bones depending on the weapon and dent in. In an actual fight the oponent probably would just slide off and hit you in the chest which would be pretty deadly, against magic from aes sedai its not even close to usefull :D A shield would be much better in that instance haha For drip tho its pretty sexy
Its an easy NO. I dont know of any example from history where they used shoulder and arm protection like that. U use a shield and a gambeson. If u got money u get a mail shirt and a helm added. Later in history plate armour was added but it was rare cos it was expensive. U start with a cuirass and then add protection for legs and arms if u can afford. Leather was never used in any time period as armour. Once gunpowder was invented there was no need for armour anyway.
The shoulder piece seams to be inspired from Jousting, there they added something simular to protect the neck from a lance, but it was only used in jousting.
@@peterhaglund9568 Roman Retiarius used armor very much like that in gladiatorial combat, it was called a galerus and was often worn in combination with a manica (overlapping arm guard) . The manica was also used by Murmillo and Secutor in ancient Rome in combination with a shield as sword arm protection. Retiarius used the galerus and manica as their primary pieces of heavy armor, as they relied on dexterity and speed in combat to dodge blows rather than block them.
@@peterhaglund9568 I generally agree. However, we're discussing the armor in the context of a fantasy story. So while we can draw inspiration from history it isn't a perfect adaptation of history because it doesn't have to be. Also, as with all martial arts, there are exceptions to every rule. Wearing just shoulder armor generally makes very little sense for anyone who has the means to wear more, absolutely. But there were times it could be done out of necessity. If someone stole some shoulder armor off a dead body and didn't have anything more, if some of their armor broke in an earlier battle, if for whatever reason they deemed the other armor unnecessary to the particular situation they were in. So yeah, it doesn't generally make much sense, agreed. Doesn't mean it never happened, that's all. It doesn't seem to make much sense on the White Cloaks as they clearly chose to wear it that way as part of their uniform, so that's why I speculate it was more ornamental than functional. Plus Hollywood loves the look of shoulder armor so they like to throw it onto their actors even when it makes little sense. If we were being realistic the White Cloaks might have some kind of padded armor or something hidden under their robes/cloaks but again, this is a fantasy story so who knows. Also leather has often been used in armor, but in conjunction with other materials or in small pieces, which I think causes confusion and why we see full leather armor portrayed as a norm on the screen. The average viewer doesn't understand that leather was often used with plates and such for reinforcement, you just didn't see the plates, so they think "oh wearing all leather armor is a thing" without understanding it was a bit more complicated than that. It's a fantasy, so whatever, but it is nice when a show will be a bit more realistic about such things. All in all it's very interesting, either way, and I don't think a simple "no" does the question justice when there are so many interesting details to it. :)
@@Ralphinsc True, but the question was in mideval settings. There might be other examples, I am not an expert and my answer was very short. Thanks for the info, gonna read abit more about that.
My only major complaint with episode 2 is that I feel the group got separated to early. I would have preferred if we got to explore who the characters are and the interactions between the characters more. Especially, Moraines interactions with the Edmond fielders and have them separate after shadar logoth in episode 3. I’m glad we had some more breathing room this episode. Definitely an improvement from the first episode. I think the stand out characters at this point have been Moirane and Mat. Rosamund Pike and Barney Harris have been killing it!!
What do you mean with separated too early? They got separated at the same time they are in the book. And stretching out the travel to shadar logoth could have taken away time that was needed elsewhere. I'm gonna reserve any critique of the pacing for when we have the whole season and can see wether they were inconsistent or spent their alloted time unwisely.
@@DerPolygonianer min and Thom show up later. I think they are condensing things down a bit and having each character have his moments. Mat was barely a character until book 2
@@justin-md4xm True, Thom is visiting Emonds Field, which is why they think he's a darkfriend. But since that is pretty superfluous i get why they changed it. And Min's first appearance also isn't that important. Sure, she does make some prophecies. But I'm not sure if having all that info so early on wouldn't hurt the show. And after that appearance it takes quite some time till she shows up again. Also, I don't think Perrin was ever married in the books. He was always the one that was "slow with girls". If I recall he was apprenticed to the smith instead and they saw him as family.
@@DerPolygonianer yep. Well my point was they are not introducing all the characters all at once to give each one his time for lines.
@@DerPolygonianer if we had Thom from episode one it would have been a much longer episode. I was missing him but now I know why they made that change. And also his motivation for following them would have been clunky.
I just want to talk about Weep for manetheren. That scene never fails to make me cry. I keep rewatching it. Look at where the camera chooses to focus during different parts of the story. They are already foreshadowing so much. I keep crying.
It's wonderful 😭😭💔
Mat looks like he almost remembers something.
I only wished that they included some flashbacks to the actual events to dramatize it - but probably beyond their budget.
@@zenrand688 They have the animated short they made for it. But honestly moraine tells the story better.
@@Arezoo298195 what animated short? WHERE? :D
I am watching this with my parents, and when Lan said "don't touch anything!" and Rand went outside immediately after, my mom actually thought that Rand would steal something and I was just sitting there biting my fist XD
Hopper! I was so happy to see that.
Theory Perrins wife was swinging a hammer at Perrin and when the wolves were attacking her in Perrins dream insinuated her being a Dark friend.
You just blew my mind. The wolves eating her didn't make sense to me until now. Also, it looked like she was about to attack him when he turned and struck her, but I figured I'd just seen it wrong. Also, also, she seemed weird toward him in the first scene with them together.
@@jodijones2862 I thought I was the only one that noticed she was about to attack him...
That would explain her weird and avoiding behaviour the day before the attack...
I interpreted that dream as the dark one(?) trying to warp Perrin by stoking his sense of guilt in an effort to "turn him to the dark side". Haven't read the books though, and don't know the story.
**SPOILERS** I like my wife's interpretation: He views himself as killing her, so the wolf (tearing her apart in the same area his axe did) is a manifestation of himself in the dream, foreshadowing that he runs as a wolf in the "wolf dreams".
I truly enjoy these comment. I'm watching the series on my own and it's nice to have such detailed views, whether it's praise or criticism, from someone else. I agree that this episode is one step up, with a better pace and structure.
Moiraine had the shock and then weighing look at Rand after that outburst which is very cool.
I'm so happy that i started reading this series because of you (I will start book 4 probably tommorow), and now watching tv show and your fantastic deep episode dives. This may be geniuenely my best experience as a community member with new book&show universe going forward.
Book 4 was my favorite.
@@KalCraig Mine favorite as well. Book 4 is just fantastic, and the beginning of the widening of the world.
"Forward and back."
Don't give up during Winters Heart. It gets better after that.
"How many antagonists is this show gonna have?" I literally LMAO'ed.
Spoilers for non readers.
How many evil eldritch abominations (mashadar) that even the Shadow fears is this show going to have?
I didn’t read the books but the scene where they sung and the story of manetheren is being told i adore it and I’m really excited to find out more about that story.. i hope there’ll be more of this story.
Oooh yeah... It was Bornhald... I thought it was Niall, but now it totally makes sense to me that they would make Bornhald tell them to seek an Aes Sedai. Not gonna say why in order not to spoil what's coming, but since I highly doubt we'll get to know him as much as in the books, in order to serve his plot point, he had to be made a very reasonnable man among a bunch of vultures.
I loved Bornhald's arc in the books, they showed the difference between extremist like the Whitecloaks are and then showed also how these people in the Whitecloaks aren't just evil, they are also humans, they have goals and reasons for the things they are doing... minus Eamon and Byar (that guy has no emotions).
I really liked the scene with Moraine and the questioner. The dialogue was excellent. Moraine was so convincing.
That is actually a pet peeve of mine. Whenever protagonists who are trying to hide their true identity, get in the situation where they have to lie to get out of it, they're always so... predictable and often dumb.
They are always really scared and nervous, they don't make up convincing lies and they usually act very defensively, in short, they act like someone with something to hide! And they still get away with it! The tension grows because they are clearly spewing BS and whoever is interrogating them grows suspicious and they are moments of being caught... and then the dude just decides that "never mind, you can go". Or maybe there's a distraction somewhere else and that's why they get away... you all know this trope!
And sometimes it makes sense if the protagonist are young and inexperienced in the world but in this case I'm thankful they did it perfectly because Moraine is someone who is smart and quick enough to lie convincingly.
Moraine doesn't lie, she makes people lie to themselves
If the questioner had half a brain he would've just asked her if she's an aes sedai. She can't lie so that would tell them really quick even if she is trying to dodge the answer that would still tell them. But he gets a pass cause the white cloaks scenes are hands down some of the best in the series so far
Well for the most part the white clogs do believe that the women of the white tower lie. How else could you believe that their dark friends?
Yep I've seen the trope!
@@GilTheDragon
She can lie, she juat cannot speak a word that is not true. Phrasing is important!
I didn't vibe with the entry into Shadar Logath scene either. The horses were refusing to go in, like really refusing. I thought for a minute they would have to walk in. But, in the next second, the horses were compliant and didn't complain.
Been pretty sick last few days but there's a lot of Daniel content to watch since the show so that's nice.
For the wolf thing, i was just laughing the whole time about how a normally large dog looked small compared to Perrin.
That scene was so badass though. Like YES.
The wolves were so pathetic lol. Not the majestic, brave creatures described in the books. Just scrawny dogs.
In Shadar Logoth there's a figure going past the doorway behind Mat when he's examining the dagger. Mordeth?
Fain
@@nathanprime2434 Possibly a bit of both at this point.
@@HeavyTopspin lol Fair
Waldo?
I am trying hard to love it and leave my biases aside but still having some problems with pacing and places where they make changes that don’t seem necessary. Would’ve loved to have seen the conflict between Morraine and Lan that eventually led to the night at Shadar Logoth. Feel like we missed an opportunity for important world-building that has implications for further down the road.
My 19 year old son who knows nothing about Wheel of Time instantly found Mat to be his favorite character right from episode 1. So I would say they are capturing just how great Mat is and will be for the story.
Too bad that the ''Mat'' in the TV show is characterized as the opposite of Mat in the first few books. Mat in the first few books is sarcastic, mischievous, comedic, somewhat immature, and often a bit facetious. The Mat in the show is a brooding, depressed, and serious character.
Ya know, I have watched so many Daniel Greene reviews, and you freaking crack me up in the best way... and I appreciate that!
You and Nae'blis complete me! I love it so frigging much. my soul howled with joy watching this.
If the trends continue, and the episodes continue to improve, just imagine TLB.
There are some issues, but I didn't go into this expecting perfection. I'm very pleased with what we have so far
Maradon with these Trollocs, AND with however they take Drakhar, glory in the making
Twirling death gates, hurricanes of fire, death itself
Bela really shined as an actress in this episode
Well, she is no Narg....
Only one that did
Waited for the TV show only so that Daniel could only talk about WoT from now on
As someone who started reading WoT in probably middle school, and I'm now 31, it's definitely been quite a while since I last read any of the series and I feel like it's like a distant reminder of what the books were, but also that it was crammed entirely too fast into the first 3 episodes.
Enjoying your episode dives the most out of all that I have watched. Looking forward to tomorrow’s.
Very excited to hear thoughts on the next episode for that special character appearance ;)
The Egwene calling Rand a bastard scene; look at Rands reaction in that scene. I think Tam did have the fevered ramblings but the show will show us that in a flashback. Also there is photo in the bonus content that of Rand and Tam that was not in the actual episode and that makes me think they definitely filmed that scene. Fingers crossed 🤞.
I didnt catch that, I hope you are right.
That would also make sense, as I assumed they cut it becasue it is a massive early indicator to the audience that he is the dragon, and they seem to want to keep that a mystery as long as possible
@@M4tt888_ I have a feeling they are holding it back for a flashback later in the season.
I think we'll also get a flashback to Egwene's women's circle initiation, because we didn't see the scene where she was in the pool with the ink that was shown in the trailers. Unless thats supposed to be something else later on.
@@keetongu445 Maybe. Though I still think that may be a dreamer dream of egwenes.
Spot on! We already have confirmation that a flashback to the Aiel war will happen, because it's in the official trailer. They just need to keep that bit hush-hush to keep the suspense rolling. I mean, Rand already did shoulder down a door that would take "more than 3 people his size" to knock down. The breadcrumb trail has started.
Also, did anyone else notice the lighting changes around the door on his last two attempts?
Loving these new deep dive videos 🙌🏼 will you do one for each episode or wait for the season to be finished?
That look Lan gave Rand when Rand called him Aes Sedai errand boy. 😳
loving the show so far, and like so many people really sad that Barney isnt returning as Mat - hes perfect! i hope the new actor will be able to do as well though and look forward to seeing it.
I noticed that Matt’s attention to Morraine’s worsening condition seemed to be what started him singing that song of Manetheran. He seemed sensitive to the need to pick her spirits up without wanting to engage her directly. Thought it was super-insightful and speaks to the development Jordan does with him much later in the books. Prolly my fav subtle writing/acting moment.
it is also true to life as people from abusive upbringings which he is in the adaptation can often develop hyper vigilance for others emotional states.
I actually like the “go get healed” line IF AND ONLY IF we get Bornhald telling his backstory to Perrin and Egwene later. He has fought trollocs before and seen wounds like this, likely in the Borderlands where they have a healthy respect for Aes Sedai. It could be that he or someone he cares for has had their life saved by Aes Sedai healing a Thakandor wound. If they don’t pay that off later then I agree it’s a bad line.
Yeah, I disagree with this. It was a good line regardless of a fan believing we need clunky exposition for that character, too.
The last thing this show needs is to think the fan community wants either flat characters or factions or a bunch of exposition to justify any bit of nuance or variation to a character.
I really REALLY hope the community unmarries every letter in the books and just appreciates what's actually in the show. This line was not bad. At all. It clearly sets up and explores tension between factions here by working as a counter to the Questioner's opening scene and the Questioner himself. To folks who are used to their fantasy being bereft of complexity, this may feel inconsistent, but it's clearly communicating that certain figures are absolutely dangerous and well insulated with a religious army who believes the horrors they do is to achieve an unequivocal good. But. They are, for the most part, still human, just beholden to certain masters.
I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be meeting them at all after this scene.
OR if he said that so they can track down the one sister in whitebridge they failed to root out themselves
@@RashidMBey This episode opens with the Questioner Valda burning an Aes Sedai who is bound with her hands chopped off nearby. He makes it clear that he is justified in his depravity merely because she is an Aes Sedai. That is to say, she didn't commit any normal crime by regular standards - her being a witch is the crime. In the same episode (I believe), another White cloak (Bornhald) suggests Moiraine seek an Aes Sedai to heal her otherwise deadly wound...Right next to Valda, who doesn't object in the slightest. You don't have to be a fan with any knowledge of the books to criticize how inconsistent this delivery of information is.
@@Zeekar Without context for the first scene, I can see it being seen as inconsistent for others.
I just saw it as a clear communication to the audience that Whitecloaks and Aes Sedai are NOT kin, they're NOT friends, and they're NOT allies, but they recognize the others' power. They will figuratively clash swords if they cross paths, but the neutral people, however, can bob between the two because their beef isn't with *them*, it's with each other.
For me, this was the scene that a bunch of other fantasy shows and stories have done: main characters need SPECIFIC aid, but the ONE person they don't want to get help from is the ONLY one who can aid them.
This was literally the same stuff but framed to nuance the Whitecloaks.
I took the armored arms as almost a symbol of rank. Noticed that Bornhald's is gold while Valdas is silver. Rafe mentioned in an interview that this is essentially their traveling clothes and teased that we could see them in full armor in the future.
The guy in silver is called a Questioner, so I think he's Asownawa (spelling?)
Cool
@@chiefenwolf6073 he's aemon valda
Regarding the armor, that's a type of plate where you can have your arm that you lead with more heavily armored to provided additional protection. It's obviously not better than a shield, but for a longsword that requires to hands its very effective.
Your recaps of these episodes are fantastic.
I feel like Bornhald telling them to go see an Aes Sedai for healing could have been a wily test. The Children might have suspected Aes Sedai in that village, and because they wouldn't trust Moiraine 100% even if they seem to do, they could have used this setup to let her lead them to the suspected Aes Sedai. Tactics.
The one thing I felt that was never really covered in the books was the fact that the female Aes Sedai never take any responsibility for their part in the breaking of the world. Its because of this lack of accountability that, to me, leads to the Black Ajah so easily infiltrating their ranks, the frenzy in which the Red Ajah hunt mean with no remorse for their actions and the way in which Rand responds and missteps so much when dealing with the Aes Sedai throughout the story. Because they moved all the blame to men they feel that any action they take is in the best interest of the Light, which in many ways makes them no better that the Whitecloaks.
The idea of Perrin being married and killing his wife comes off as a quick way to show why Perrin is much slower to action throughout the story without being able to externalize his thoughts. This move gives them the reason for him to be the more introspective than the others. He will think thru his actions because he has seen what happens when you don't. In the books we know he is this way because he is so much larger than the others and he has accidently hurt people before. The show gives a much more traumatizing experience to give us his character trait. Lets hope they don't mess it up.
While I like the actor for Mat, I think they are playing up the rogue aspect of his character a little to soon and a little to hard. Again with the time constraints I get why but I think it might be too much. At least they are also showing his innate need to protect those he loves and cares for.
The pacing is quicker than I would like but at least it seems they are paying close attention to major plot points, so far.
Also Bela needs to make it through this series as well, she was an important minor character that should not be thrown away.
Two things. I got the vibe the knife was seducing Mat, similar to Pippin with the panties (palantir). Sometimes autocorrect is a gem.
Bornhald was the least zealous of the Children. This works IF Eamon calls him on it later.
Any whitecloak that dares to make that suggestion in front of other whitecloak would be immediately put to the question and confess being a dark friend. Even Bornhald. Particularly in front of a member of the hand (what happened to not calling them questioners to their faces?)
I'm so glad this show brought me to your channel.
I was looking forward to your take on the show all weekend. It didn't disappoint. I'm glad you are enjoying the great aspects of the adaptation and not just popping a lid like some other book fans are doing. The reddit /wot sub was full on civil war over the weekend.