People of Soweto and the cape flats should follow Orania's example as indeed should the Zulu and other communities. In South Africa all communities should follow suit. And end the A.N.C corruption.
Mr. Lesufi ....Orania is a success story that you are incapable of achieving. Lesufi let me remind you about the Zondo Commission' s findings on the ANC Govt : " A total disgrace as if there is no govt with a GENERAL fraudulent character" U cant govern as the ANC and for that U can scream and jump and shout all U want that won't change
Joost living up to his legendary name. Great debat. Ek was bekommerd toe die omroeper begin oproepe vat het. Maar weereens wys God Hy is en sal altyd in beheer wees en bly. Prys die Here vir Sy genade en omgee. Staan sterk Orania 🧡 jul maak ons in die buiteland bitter trots om te weet ons is Afrikaners. 🤍✝️ Matteus 28:8 Jesus kom toe nader en sê vir hulle: "Aan my is alle mag gegee in die hemel en op die aarde." Prys Sy heilige naam 🙏🏼
Orania is a glaring success that highlights all the ANC failures with regard to managing the country. Afrikaners have a human right to have their own language, culture and community. Why are the Zulus allowed to have their own land (Ingonyama Trust), culture and community. Double standards and human rights violations from the communist ANC.
I commend the mentality of abundance from all our fellow South Africans on this programme who see the positveness of an Orania and will support other communities who want the same.
But lesufi and his likes are not fair - why are there security estates throughout the country where only the property owners are allowed in? Many of these self-made rulers live on these security estates and no one gives a damn. Leave Orania alone and fix your mess in Hammanskraal ( water and sanitation) just to mention one.
Keep setting the example of how local government could function in an effective way, and the rest of SA could learn from it and even implement similar systems. I however think that the greed factor throughout SA is the main obstacle and secondly the competence of the people that are employed without the skills to realise or do the work required for a council to function effectively.
The main thing that I got from the interview was the average South African is pretty cool about Orania but politicians just want to use any issue they can for votes.
It doesnt make sense what you said. If a politician says something in order to gain votes, it means that the people that votes agree with what he/she is saying. If people of SA are cool with Orania, why would they vote for politicians that are against it?
@@miguelnuno928 People vote for lots of different reasons. People maybe cool with orania but those people may vote for a party that offers something closer to their heart. Then the party they vote for is fall of politcians that dont like orania.
Aanvaar verantwoordelikheid! Jaloesie! Speel n groot rol, mense gun die Afrikaners niks! Hulle sien dit gaan goed! Daar is nie korrupsie nie! Hulle sien die vooruitgang! Sterkte! Bou voort!
I think that if one questions the existence of Orania that one also questions the existence of Lesotho and eSwatini. As we can see with the cooperation between Orania and Mnyameni, let us learn from our Christian brothers how to turn all towns around the world into little Oranias.
Well said. Together we can make a difference. Politicians need to play on the political sentiment, and polarize peoples. We may be different, but we all want our children to have food in their bellies, a roof over their head, a stable environment, and hope for the future. We can all work together to help one another to achieve this, as a collective, although we are different. After all, do birds of a feather not flock together? They nest together, but feed with other birds, do they not?
Sure. But respectfuly, Lesotho and eSwathini are not an exclusively black community. The basis upon which Orania exists is that they do not want to mingle about with black people in any long term meaningful way. We must see Orania for what it is and judge it on its true merit whether we like it or not, or agree with it or not. They have statues of the orchestraters of apartheid. They have a largely racist community which sees blacks as being impossible to live in harmony with.
And who owns the Lans then? How did your own grandparents inherit that land which you say was stolen from them ? Are saying that this land belongs to you from creation? Then give me proof.
What is the difference between the Amish and the Afrikaner . They both strive for their own cultures , religion etc. America is free to practice one's own culture/ religion etc. The South African Anc government practices too much race based politics going against the very constitution they were instrumental in developing Why does the anc government not focus on the many different tribal lands where other ethnic groups won't be allowed to settle.
@48:00 what she meant is what black African authority permitted you as individuals to form a community, because the existence of such a community is only valid if it was permitted by a black African authority; at least this seems to be the premise of the question. I understand it may not be productive in south Africa, but I would argue Orania is an organic community and the people who compromise the community do not require black African permission to exist and associate with one another on a voluntary basis!
The biggest problem.with Orania is that it is hard evidence (not a useless debate) to the whole world of how people can live and thrive without influence of power hungry forces.
Jealous of what some people can do and not carry on like lunatics like in some places in that country. That’s all it is . They are jealous of the way Afrikaners do things . They envy us .
Russian mentality from lesufi All good people regardless of race will stand together and kick these criminals out of government and it's already starting to happen
Mr Lesufi sounds a bit hostile. Why do such a small community causes such a stirring?? I agree with Joost, they have not bothered anyone. The government might be a bit jealous in the sense that Orania achieves what the government and local municipalities cannot achieve. The easy way out for Lesufi is to put a stop to Orania?? Please concentrate rather to get service delivery in the rest of the country up to scratch and on par with Orania. Rather see Orania as an example to strive to. Thank you to the high amount of understanding and supportive tele-callers. Congratulations to Joost and the team.
Very hostile. He forgets who brought them that s0ciety in which they live and enjoy, and complain. Roads, malls, airplanes, even the 'dem0cracy' he mentions again and again. I don't hear him advocating for keeping africans out of IreIand, Svveden, etc. Joost is a classy man, his response is measured.
In any country where people have tried to live in isolation based on any variable, be it religion, race, ethnicity etc it has always ended badly. Intolerance of religious differences has birthed terrorism, intolerance of ethnicity birthed amogst others the Rwandan genocide, intolerance of race birthed apartheid, slavery, Jim Crow laws, the Holocaust etc. Guys, dont be stupid. It does not work.
@@bannisterjames2845 You're not citing any examples that weren't manipulated by b0lshevik influence. It has always worked, it is the natural order of things.
Imagine believing that any peoples needs "allowance" to exist or to persist 😂 The people of Orania do not need anyone's permission to exist and through righteous struggle they will for now remind the rest of South Africa of these facts. When the enemies of Orania decide to finally take their mask off they will quickly be met with the reality and capability of the European man.
Orania has attracted thousands of tourists who come in awe, they leave with a new belief and understanding, which other community does this, perhaps soweto madiba,s house, but what is the result orania is growing its prosperous, big difference
Should anyone want to be a citizen of the Netherlands, you would have to go through a " In burgering" course which means , learning the language and culture.
WHY should anybody be angry at Orania? What did, or does Orania do to anger anybody besides showing the rest of the country that it is possible to take money from point A to B without stealing it? They made a lot of things work where most people do not want to live and they continue to make things work as they progress. Lefoolsie is out looking for things that he can use to make his voter think will benefit them. How will returning Orania to a piece of barren land benefit anybody? Just to be clear - I am a white middle-aged Afrikaans speaking male who contributes every month to Orania YET I am not allowed to live there because I am an atheist. Does that anger me? No. It is my choice to support their belief of self-sustainability. Even where I live I have always done my own house and garden work. Why does the corrupt government not hang their heads in shame when they steal from their own people? Instead, they try and divert focus to things like this, and they get away with it because 80% of their voter base is uneducated and will give a vote for a street-wise 2 because their children are hungry.
@@nonompilo7946 Bottom line is they cannot take the failures of the black man and success of what these white people have done with barren land. It is like u have given two children the same sweets, soon as the one has eaten all his sweets he starts screaming for the other kids sweets.
Why do you need to force people to be together every country allows a group to be together for whatever reason. They just want to work on the land they bought
The host did a good job, encouraging to hear people with sense and critical thinking. Joost is very articulate, Lesufi made an ass of himself. Support from USA.
They are not trying to oppress anyone The ANC spokesperson is really being dishonest about his motivation . What can you show as achievements by the ANC You have not succeeded in fighting corruption.That’s a reality
Nice interview - Jooste for is basically saying they read the constitution, legal documents and applied the law to establish Orania. They applied the law and constitution which is available to all of us. He is basically saying they did not do law just to pass or get 50% like others. Basically he saying we can have our own oranias and apply our own cultures in our areas. To avoid the outcry of saying we have lost our cultures as black hence we adopt western cultures or viewing our african cultures second best to western culture.
@Orania Beweging Daardie derde laaste oproeper se stelling was nogals interresant, oor hoe die Afrikaners in Zambië in gesprek en onderhandelinge getree het met die ou weergawe van die ANC en Tabo Mbeki oor vryheid en self-determination vir die Afrikaners in 'n gegewe grond gebied. Waar is daardie dokument? Sal interresant wees as ons dit kan op bring en eens en veraltyd die legitimacy van Orania kan bewys! En daarop verder uitbrei, dalk IS daar 'n kans vir 'n regte Volkstaat om te onstaan vir ons mense, met die beginsels wat Orania tans uitleef soos om vriendelik en goeie verhoudings te handhaaf met ander kultuur en etniese groepe binne en buite Suid-Afrika!
Transformation , Bee and Affirmative Action is the downfall of South Africa, When we stop blaming Apartheid for our failures South Africa will be the breadbasket of Africa again. Orania we should look up to, take an example of what these people have done with barren land.
I agree the ANC wants us to be dependent on them, in glad and very proud, everyone helps, work together, if only the the rest is SA could the same. Admiration Orania
The idea of Orania is an African Tribal idea, but the people are white Africans, with their own language, culture & identity. It is also a minor minority of Afrikaners that want to live there, most Afrikaners are integrated in the greater South Africa, accepting the realities & challenges, sometimes good, sometimes bad. This is like the Amish in the USA, ...pull up your own socks to uplift yourself is the credo...the small scale of Orania is totally a non-entity & NOT a threat at all as Mr Lesufi is trying to make out. Live & let live, counts for all & all minorities too. Maybe a more Federal style South Africa as in Switzerland or USA, might be an option for South Africa's future, that might work better than the current centrist system. Our current system is showing many many shortcomings too. South Africa could easily have been 9 or more smaller countries as is Swaziland & Lesotho. We were forced together after the Anglo-Boer War (1899 - 1902). A child growing up in rural Zululand or Venda has a way different frame of reference than a child of Johannesburg. Orania is NOT oppressing anyone, who really WANTS to live there in the first place? I do not want to live there, unless my life is in danger in the rest of South Africa. Are we ALL going to become a mixed race, with only English as in the UK? Is that what Mr Lesufi wants, no more African diversity or pride in our different cultures? They are no danger to SA, what are there numbers...less than 2000 people (Afrikaners in the rest of South Africa are around 2,7 million), South Africa has over 6000 High Schools and around 20 000 Primary Schools, can we please rather concentrate on the REAL issues facing South Africa.
🎉please look at johannesburg it was a clean and proud place to be. We where not shy to say i am living in johannesburg. We could walk free. Can we do that know. Oranja is proud to show that Afrikaner can work for them selfs.
There should be more Oranias, multiple ones for every culture or other association of people. They can all work together like the cantonal system in Switzerland. Look how successful they are.
This interview is noticably intended to be non bias yet the tone of dissapprovement is quite obvious . Orania is allowed to exist because of the exact right to freedom every human being must insist on in existence.The right of self determination and freedom of association.if this is a problem Mr Lesufi you should start disassembling every culture and gathered comunity in S.A.😂good luck with that.other than the annoying hipocracy of self-righteous crytics .good talk.
Wow - where does one start? As a first off, the time has come to set some ground rules into this debate of elf determination et al. So, Mr Lesufi needs to pull his head out of a certain part of is anatomy; I will not however hold my breath. First, the Afrikaner has the right to self determination whether he likes it or not and whether or not it is provided for in the constitution or not. Second, the Afrikaner does not always need to grovel at the feet of the ANC and their lackey's in order to justify their existence. Third, the regime came to power in 1994. Mr Mandela was released in 1990 and for all intents and purposes, apartheid ended in the late 80's. Fourth, the track record of the regime since then has been abysmal. How this man can bleat on about Orania because they want to lead and fulfill their own destiny apart from the disaster that is the new SA is astounding. Fifth, maybe Mr Lesufi is not aware of this; forcing others to adopt and follow a narrative is called fascism. Sixth, Lesufi said he hated racism or apartheid; very admirable. I assume that he is vigorously attempting to repeal the 100 or so laws that are race based; again, I will not hold my breath.
So, if we put a stop to Orania, what does that actually look like? Do military truck show up and dismantle the place? That sounds extreme, of course. So, de we force an expropriation of the property without compensation and give the citizens a period to vacate? Do we take people's homes and property and tell them to move? What kind of message does that send to the rest of the nation and the world that the government will randomly seize your investment? And what about foreign investors in Orania, what recourse do they have against the SA government? All that could get tricky; no one would want to invest in SA and people would leave. Hmmm. So, I know. We could expropriate the property WITH fair compensation, and then force people to move out of their community. Except they'd probably move elsewhere together and build another community. But I'm one step ahead of them, listen to this idea: We could make a list of all of their names and make it illegal for them to live next to each other. But if we did that we'd have to make a law that any white people could not live next to each other. But we could do that too. We could forcibly ensure a rainbow nation by mandating that whites may not live next to each other, or, at least, not in any kind of concentration within a certain geographic area. Because that's what we're essentially talking about. How's that going to work? Not realistic? Wait, I have more ideas. We could forcibly mandate that Orania MUST allow blacks in. Would that be a lot of blacks, or just a few? Or, would we just say that Orania may not reject new members based on ethnicity? But, they would then say that they rejected an application based on something else and we could refute that claim in court and force them to accept a new black member. So, essentially we would control their memberships. That would really throw a wrench into their little orange cogs. In fact they'd probably leave and blacks could buy the houses at a discounted price and run the town themselves and keep their own utilities operational or put them into the hands of the municipality and then we could change the name of the little town and it will eventually look like any other town in SA. So, if we put a stop to Orania, what does that actually look like?
If segregation 'never ' works according to @bannisterjames, then how is it we have so much natural diversity? That alone is a testament to the natural order of segregation. Northern countries are some of the most peaceful, and compassionate ever known. Take sweden. Blonde Blue fair skin. . . . You don't get that by muIticulturaIism. You get cultures by thriving, and creating it organically. Segregation is natural and always works.
The North had some of the worst wars in human history, collectively murdering over 20 million MINIMUM in less than 30 years. They further exported this death worldwide murdering millions of humans on other continents, wiping out entire animal species, and now, creating the biggest threat to the existence of all of humanity through climate change. Secondly, the reason the North is peaceful, is because they have been doing nothing but fighting and murdering each other for thousands of years. And they were and are still proud of it! It was only after the 20th century when they created the most destructive weapons humanity has ever seen, that they realised that they were doing something wrong. Thirdly. Blonde hair blue eyes didn't stop the Swedes from killing the Norwegians when the Swedish empire conquered Norway. It didn't stop the Swedes from killing the Finnish when they conquered Finland. Hell, not even actual blood relation stopped those Whities from murdering each other, as it was proved when Queen Victoria had her children marry into nearly all of Europe's royal families with even the King of England at the time and the Czar of Russia looked EXACTLY the same. British monarch and the Prussian monarch (German Empire) were cousins, but do you know what these people did next? They started World War 1. Why? How can ACTUAL BLOOD be content with killing eachother. Well that's because THEY WERE CULTURALLY DIFFERENT. I know you don't know this but White people aren't all the same. A German is different to a Brit. An Italian is different to a Serb. They don't have the same culture! Oh, and you want to know what's currently happening in Europe right now? Western Europeans are discriminating against Eastern Europeans.
But regardless, all of that multiculturalism tension is explainable. As you see, culture is not something that is created overnight. It is something that is built over time. In Africa, many tribes were divided and warred against one another. They saw themselves as different even though they were dark skinned and thick haired. But then Europeans came along, and lumped all these different people into one collective race called "BLACK". They gave all these Africans equal levels of oppression, and this over generations created a common culture amongst these previously divided African tribes. Now they didn't see each other as Zulu and Xhosa. Now they saw eachother as Black. And this developed a common culture amongst that particular racial construct. The same with the Boers. We had Dutch, French and German people who came here for similar reasons. Over hundreds of years, they coalesced and now, you have a person with a French like Jacques, speaking a variation of Dutch. (Which btw would EXTREMELY controversial if you went to a place like Belgium)
And last about nature and diversity. Nature creates diversity out randomness and not of some divine order as you're implying. You along with me and every human on earth, are a product of different species having MIXED together to create the best species to survive a certain environment. Europeans are known to have mixed with Neanderthal, another species of human, that died off BECAUSE it didn't have enough MIXED GENES to survive...well, I guess they survived seeing that most Europeans have their genes so whatever. Anyway. Multiculturalism does not create diversity for the purpose of segregation. It creates for the purpose of survival. Which means, that if you decided to mix or you decided to not mix, would determine how well you would adapt in the environment. If you had mixed children and the climate became warmer, the chance that your children would live longer and your genes would survive would be high, as the higher melanin content and tighter moisture absorbing hair might provide some protection against the ramifications of that global disaster, compared to that of the moisture losing hair and low melanin skin of a lighter non mixed child.
Vandag is Hemelvaartdag. Alle eer aan YHWH en die Heilige Gees vir die Messiah, Christus Jesus. Dankie Christus Jesus dat u ons kom verlos het en n verlossingsdag en versoeningsdag met die ware Almagtige God wie se Naam bo alle name, krone, trone, magte, owerhede en prinsipaliteite geskryf staan, vir ons moonlike gemaak het. Geseënde Hemelvaartdag gebore uit ons Skepper.
Let’s look fairly at who has achieved what. I who have a skill set in great demand in SA have been unable to even apply for jobs because I have a white skin. It is hypocritical and disingenuous for the racist ANC to level accusations of racism at Oranje. The leaders of Oranje govern their tiny little community in a tiny part of SA for the benefit of the community they serve. There is no crime in Oranje, while the ANC governs a country where they cannot even deliver that most fundamental of human rights: to live without constant fear of murder and rape. The leaders of Oranje do not steal tax money from their community to buy presidential jets and lavish homes all over the world. The community of Oranje is lead by people who serve their people while in SA as a whole being a politician means attaining enough authority to steal tax payer money. The people of Oranje are an embarrassment to the SA govt because they demonstrate in their own quiet way every day how a community can be self sufficient, caring of the needy, law abiding and live in peace with their neighbours.
The Afrikaner is being excluded so I think it is correct they focus on self-improvement and building independant institutions so their people can be employed and eat. You cannot renage on an agreement and say we never meant it. Why must they accept exclusion from jobs and the economy. As Joost says, the stress levels are low in Orania and the trust is high and they are getting their self-esteem back. Well done to them. Save yourselves. You are more than capable.
Im white can i go and live in the Bantustans, I've always wanted to live in the transkei any Government official that can answer me ot would be appreciated
@@brucedownunda7054 im asking if a white man or woman can own a deed in Transkei, because renting I Know is possible, but to Own the land that is my Qeustion
Lesufi should have put his pride away and should take some pointers from orania on how to run a country. I believe orania will thrive and this will seriously piss the ANC off because they know that they are doing it wrong.
I’m 100% on board on what the community is trying to achieve and I sincerely hope they go from strength to strength. The only thing I cannot accept is they celebrate people like Verwoerd where they ignore the atrocity that was caused.
I Can't Understand WHY ITS A PROBLEM When Some people are Running their Own Lives??? South Africa Has So Many Problems??? Loadshedding? Politics? Corruption? And God knows what else??? Leave Oranje Alone!!!! They Don't Bother S A Residents for Anything👍🙏👏
Comment : There are large swathes of this country where my family cannot go, because if we do my wife and daughters will be raped and all of us murdered. So Mr. ANC just take a little less pride in the mess of a country that you govern.
@@Wolf-hh4rv I wonder who told you Boers crp like this. You people are incredibly paranoid. Your collective community needs to see a medical professional to deal with this. Genuinely speaking.
Orania is not racist country. They are progressing in education. Panyaza your ÀNC govt. is failing the South Africans, you failed to build a UNIVERSITY in past 27 years. Shame on you ANC.
congrajulations to the afrikaner community. there is no language without its homeland in south africa. i mean a community where you reside as citizen and be assimilate by the language and culture of that community. no one with do that for afrikaner community axcept the afrikaner people. all eleven languages have their homeland .
Orania pays tax to SARS and it has not been said that they failed to comply to Government. The majority party except that income so they approve Orania. Western Cape was lost to the ruling party of national government and will loose Western Cape nationally and have their majority dwindling in the next election throughout South Africa. How their reps can threaten other party ideals blows ones mind. That's not democracy. The voter will make the final decision that's democracy.
Amazing that the first few callers agree with the Oranie idea, as soon as the MEC talk against it she gives him more air time than the first three callers..... I Wonder how democratic this is... the 1st 3 callers agree with orania and she cuts them short the first one that does not agree get 5 times more time than the 1st 3 combined... Very Democratic !!!!
The interviewer and lesufi cannot wrap their heads around the fact that Oranjia is an alternative cultural movement that is working. They are minding their own business.Leave them alone.Time has shown that what they are doing works. Unfortunately the anc have not been able to do anything of value anywhere. 30 years of what? Section 265 of the constitution allows for Oranjia. Hou op om vir die bobbejan agter die berg te gaan haal.😮
Let's compare Orania to other towns in Africa. 1) It's the only town in Africa that is crime free. 2) It's the only town in Africa where only white people with one culture lives and work. 3) It's the only town in Africa with no littering, potholes, filthy streets and leaking pipes. 4) It's the only town in Africa that many blacks are critisising and hate. Please stop to be jealous of those people and rather follow their example. Be proud of you're own culture and race and religeon and be good to all other people and life on earth. Work hard...be good...do not throw you're pearls for the pigs.
Well done to u guys in orania alot of people can learn from u god bless 🙏💪
People of Soweto and the cape flats should follow Orania's example as indeed should the Zulu and other communities. In South Africa all communities should follow suit. And end the A.N.C corruption.
RESPECT ORANIA FROM INDIA 🇮🇳
To Mr Le Poeffie: Orania is an example of how you uplift and empower your people.
NOT with t-shirts and false promises.
Mr. Lesufi ....Orania is a success story that you are incapable of achieving. Lesufi let me remind you about the Zondo Commission' s findings on the ANC Govt : " A total disgrace as if there is no govt with a GENERAL fraudulent character" U cant govern as the ANC and for that U can scream and jump and shout all U want that won't change
That’s rubbish, Orania is a legacy of apartheid.
Joost living up to his legendary name. Great debat. Ek was bekommerd toe die omroeper begin oproepe vat het. Maar weereens wys God Hy is en sal altyd in beheer wees en bly. Prys die Here vir Sy genade en omgee. Staan sterk Orania 🧡 jul maak ons in die buiteland bitter trots om te weet ons is Afrikaners. 🤍✝️
Matteus 28:8 Jesus kom toe nader en sê vir hulle: "Aan my is alle mag gegee in die hemel en op die aarde."
Prys Sy heilige naam 🙏🏼
stem saam, maar ek wil graag byvoeg dat God oor die hele land in beheer sal wees, nie net Orania nie
The ANC was able to get rid of the homelands, About five homelands, but they cannot get rid of one homeland Orania. Big surprise.
Stop farm murders
Orania is a glaring success that highlights all the ANC failures with regard to managing the country. Afrikaners have a human right to have their own language, culture and community. Why are the Zulus allowed to have their own land (Ingonyama Trust), culture and community. Double standards and human rights violations from the communist ANC.
I commend the mentality of abundance from all our fellow South Africans on this programme who see the positveness of an Orania and will support other communities who want the same.
Excellent debate . Good hardworking people.
Every tribe should be doing what oranja is doing
Must be an embarrassment for Mr Lesufi to not even have the support of his own people regarding Orania.
What do you mean his own people?
@@trainsmashtv200 look in the mirror ,there is a difference
@@trainsmashtv200 what do you think he means moron?
Afrikaaners should have decided this Orania when they first landed in South africa. Even though they are still in South africa.
But lesufi and his likes are not fair - why are there security estates throughout the country where only the property owners are allowed in? Many of these self-made rulers live on these security estates and no one gives a damn. Leave Orania alone and fix your mess in Hammanskraal ( water and sanitation) just to mention one.
It just shows that when communities care for each other it works. Now the outsiders see it as apartheid.
Keep setting the example of how local government could function in an effective way, and the rest of SA could learn from it and even implement similar systems. I however think that the greed factor throughout SA is the main obstacle and secondly the competence of the people that are employed without the skills to realise or do the work required for a council to function effectively.
I know they will not succeed, they like fighting
Listening further to mr Lusufi, if I was his follower or people I would be disgusted.
The main thing that I got from the interview was the average South African is pretty cool about Orania but politicians just want to use any issue they can for votes.
It doesnt make sense what you said. If a politician says something in order to gain votes, it means that the people that votes agree with what he/she is saying. If people of SA are cool with Orania, why would they vote for politicians that are against it?
@@miguelnuno928 People vote for lots of different reasons. People maybe cool with orania but those people may vote for a party that offers something closer to their heart. Then the party they vote for is fall of politcians that dont like orania.
@@miguelnuno928 Populism. Create a vague side issue into something it is not and then drum up emotions/hate. You know like propaganda?
Race and corruption is the anc's biggest attraction.
The interviewer is unbelievably simplistic.
God Bless ORANIA...
Aanvaar verantwoordelikheid! Jaloesie! Speel n groot rol, mense gun die Afrikaners niks! Hulle sien dit gaan goed! Daar is nie korrupsie nie! Hulle sien die vooruitgang! Sterkte! Bou voort!
I think that if one questions the existence of Orania that one also questions the existence of Lesotho and eSwatini. As we can see with the cooperation between Orania and Mnyameni, let us learn from our Christian brothers how to turn all towns around the world into little Oranias.
Agree. Unfortunately, the globalist elite would would never allow identify to get in the way of their hidden develish agenda.
Well said.
Well said. Together we can make a difference. Politicians need to play on the political sentiment, and polarize peoples. We may be different, but we all want our children to have food in their bellies, a roof over their head, a stable environment, and hope for the future. We can all work together to help one another to achieve this, as a collective, although we are different.
After all, do birds of a feather not flock together? They nest together, but feed with other birds, do they not?
Oraniers would be more than happy if every ethnic community had it successful way and learn from each other.
Sure. But respectfuly, Lesotho and eSwathini are not an exclusively black community. The basis upon which Orania exists is that they do not want to mingle about with black people in any long term meaningful way. We must see Orania for what it is and judge it on its true merit whether we like it or not, or agree with it or not. They have statues of the orchestraters of apartheid. They have a largely racist community which sees blacks as being impossible to live in harmony with.
Ag please Lesufi stop talking like a fool! Proud of Orania achiefment!
Lesufi has a point. Your forefathers stole the land. No land was bought from the thiefs.
And who owns the Lans then? How did your own grandparents inherit that land which you say was stolen from them ? Are saying that this land belongs to you from creation? Then give me proof.
@@mphomangole3768wake up you guys you can only run a country down , like Zimbabwe. Stop plundering
Well done Joost!!!
What is the difference between the Amish and the Afrikaner . They both strive for their own cultures , religion etc. America is free to practice one's own culture/ religion etc. The South African Anc government practices too much race based politics going against the very constitution they were instrumental in developing Why does the anc government not focus on the many different tribal lands where other ethnic groups won't be allowed to settle.
@48:00 what she meant is what black African authority permitted you as individuals to form a community, because the existence of such a community is only valid if it was permitted by a black African authority; at least this seems to be the premise of the question. I understand it may not be productive in south Africa, but I would argue Orania is an organic community and the people who compromise the community do not require black African permission to exist and associate with one another on a voluntary basis!
Absolutely correct
The biggest problem.with Orania is that it is hard evidence (not a useless debate) to the whole world of how people can live and thrive without influence of power hungry forces.
They are. Not dictating to anyone Leave them alone .
Jealous of what some people can do and not carry on like lunatics like in some places in that country. That’s all it is . They are jealous of the way Afrikaners do things . They envy us .
True
It is like we all eating crap, you need to eat crap with us.
@@billmark8244 exactly
The ANC spokesman is threatening .
Russian mentality from lesufi
All good people regardless of race will stand together and kick these criminals out of government and it's already starting to happen
I would like to visit Orania and have a chat with Joost in 2022. How do I get hold of him?
why
There is an email on their homepage
Meneer Jooste very eloquent, lepoofie as always idiotic. Appreciate the interviewer not being biast and antagonistic
Great people indeed ❤ Orania
If panyaza only understood the constitution. He wouldn't have been such a big Dom doos
Mr Lesufi sounds a bit hostile. Why do such a small community causes such a stirring?? I agree with Joost, they have not bothered anyone. The government might be a bit jealous in the sense that Orania achieves what the government and local municipalities cannot achieve. The easy way out for Lesufi is to put a stop to Orania?? Please concentrate rather to get service delivery in the rest of the country up to scratch and on par with Orania. Rather see Orania as an example to strive to. Thank you to the high amount of understanding and supportive tele-callers. Congratulations to Joost and the team.
Very hostile. He forgets who brought them that s0ciety in which they live and enjoy, and complain. Roads, malls, airplanes, even the 'dem0cracy' he mentions again and again. I don't hear him advocating for keeping africans out of IreIand, Svveden, etc. Joost is a classy man, his response is measured.
I agree with Joost...and yes...we should speak Afrikaans, né?
If it doesn’t rain in 500 years time or if the price of ice cream goes up tomorrow ... it’s all because of Apartheid.
In any country where people have tried to live in isolation based on any variable, be it religion, race, ethnicity etc it has always ended badly. Intolerance of religious differences has birthed terrorism, intolerance of ethnicity birthed amogst others the Rwandan genocide, intolerance of race birthed apartheid, slavery, Jim Crow laws, the Holocaust etc. Guys, dont be stupid. It does not work.
@@bannisterjames2845 You're not citing any examples that weren't manipulated by b0lshevik influence. It has always worked, it is the natural order of things.
Imagine believing that any peoples needs "allowance" to exist or to persist 😂 The people of Orania do not need anyone's permission to exist and through righteous struggle they will for now remind the rest of South Africa of these facts. When the enemies of Orania decide to finally take their mask off they will quickly be met with the reality and capability of the European man.
ek het baie admirasie vir Joost. ek het reeds my m gestrip na die eerste arrugante vraag.
ORANIA IS THE BEST THAT SHOWS YOU THIS LEADERS ARE CHRISTIANS AND IS NOT CORRUPT LIKE THE ANC MAGAZOELOES
Why don't they question the various homelands which still exist if they want to question Oranje's existence
Orania has attracted thousands of tourists who come in awe, they leave with a new belief and understanding, which other community does this, perhaps soweto madiba,s house, but what is the result orania is growing its prosperous, big difference
Should anyone want to be a citizen of the Netherlands, you would have to go through a " In burgering" course which means , learning the language and culture.
WHY should anybody be angry at Orania? What did, or does Orania do to anger anybody besides showing the rest of the country that it is possible to take money from point A to B without stealing it? They made a lot of things work where most people do not want to live and they continue to make things work as they progress. Lefoolsie is out looking for things that he can use to make his voter think will benefit them. How will returning Orania to a piece of barren land benefit anybody? Just to be clear - I am a white middle-aged Afrikaans speaking male who contributes every month to Orania YET I am not allowed to live there because I am an atheist. Does that anger me? No. It is my choice to support their belief of self-sustainability. Even where I live I have always done my own house and garden work. Why does the corrupt government not hang their heads in shame when they steal from their own people? Instead, they try and divert focus to things like this, and they get away with it because 80% of their voter base is uneducated and will give a vote for a street-wise 2 because their children are hungry.
Orania is a white town built on black land
@@nonompilo7946 no such thing as black land...
@@nonompilo7946 koisan first,land first.
@@nonompilo7946 Bottom line is they cannot take the failures of the black man and success of what these white people have done with barren land. It is like u have given two children the same sweets, soon as the one has eaten all his sweets he starts screaming for the other kids sweets.
@@lilianviljoen8922 Have a look at the calendar. It is 2020.
Why do you need to force people to be together every country allows a group to be together for whatever reason.
They just want to work on the land they bought
The host did a good job, encouraging to hear people with sense and critical thinking. Joost is very articulate, Lesufi made an ass of himself. Support from USA.
Orania. Dit is hoe SA
eientlik moet lyk 🙈 orania 👌
Interesting how some people think nothing should exist without government approval…
The lady leading the debate is not objective she is directing people’s opinions.
Indeed, and it's disgusting.
They are not trying to oppress anyone The ANC spokesperson is really being dishonest about his motivation .
What can you show as achievements by the ANC You have not succeeded in fighting corruption.That’s a reality
Nice interview - Jooste for is basically saying they read the constitution, legal documents and applied the law to establish Orania. They applied the law and constitution which is available to all of us. He is basically saying they did not do law just to pass or get 50% like others. Basically he saying we can have our own oranias and apply our own cultures in our areas. To avoid the outcry of saying we have lost our cultures as black hence we adopt western cultures or viewing our african cultures second best to western culture.
Why do homelands still have their chiefs etc, surely that should have all stopped when Anc took over government?
I hope they do survive as its hope for other couminties that identify as whatever they want
Lesufi must go!!!
@Orania Beweging
Daardie derde laaste oproeper se stelling was nogals interresant, oor hoe die Afrikaners in Zambië in gesprek en onderhandelinge getree het met die ou weergawe van die ANC en Tabo Mbeki oor vryheid en self-determination vir die Afrikaners in 'n gegewe grond gebied. Waar is daardie dokument? Sal interresant wees as ons dit kan op bring en eens en veraltyd die legitimacy van Orania kan bewys! En daarop verder uitbrei, dalk IS daar 'n kans vir 'n regte Volkstaat om te onstaan vir ons mense, met die beginsels wat Orania tans uitleef soos om vriendelik en goeie verhoudings te handhaaf met ander kultuur en etniese groepe binne en buite Suid-Afrika!
Die enigste dokument wat nodig is is die Konstitusie.
South Africa will be a major power if they can replicate the low crime rate and high economic growth across the nation
Lesufi seems to like threatening people who doesn’t have anything to do with him.
Transformation , Bee and Affirmative Action is the downfall of South Africa, When we stop blaming Apartheid for our failures South Africa will be the breadbasket of Africa again. Orania we should look up to, take an example of what these people have done with barren land.
Ek glo nie hierdie minister het enige behoorlike kwalifiekasie of mense verhoudings nie want hy dink hy weet iets maar hy weet bokkerol.
I agree the ANC wants us to be dependent on them, in glad and very proud, everyone helps, work together, if only the the rest is SA could the same. Admiration Orania
The idea of Orania is an African Tribal idea, but the people are white Africans, with their own language, culture & identity. It is also a minor minority of Afrikaners that want to live there, most Afrikaners are integrated in the greater South Africa, accepting the realities & challenges, sometimes good, sometimes bad. This is like the Amish in the USA, ...pull up your own socks to uplift yourself is the credo...the small scale of Orania is totally a non-entity & NOT a threat at all as Mr Lesufi is trying to make out. Live & let live, counts for all & all minorities too. Maybe a more Federal style South Africa as in Switzerland or USA, might be an option for South Africa's future, that might work better than the current centrist system. Our current system is showing many many shortcomings too. South Africa could easily have been 9 or more smaller countries as is Swaziland & Lesotho. We were forced together after the Anglo-Boer War (1899 - 1902). A child growing up in rural Zululand or Venda has a way different frame of reference than a child of Johannesburg. Orania is NOT oppressing anyone, who really WANTS to live there in the first place? I do not want to live there, unless my life is in danger in the rest of South Africa. Are we ALL going to become a mixed race, with only English as in the UK? Is that what Mr Lesufi wants, no more African diversity or pride in our different cultures? They are no danger to SA, what are there numbers...less than 2000 people (Afrikaners in the rest of South Africa are around 2,7 million), South Africa has over 6000 High Schools and around 20 000 Primary Schools, can we please rather concentrate on the REAL issues facing South Africa.
Weldone to the Amabele Kayamangile Community in Eastern cape
🎉please look at johannesburg it was a clean and proud place to be. We where not shy to say i am living in johannesburg. We could walk free. Can we do that know. Oranja is proud to show that Afrikaner can work for them selfs.
There should be more Oranias, multiple ones for every culture or other association of people. They can all work together like the cantonal system in Switzerland. Look how successful they are.
The only way this can be done is from scratch. From the ground up. This is not easy. But as we can see...it is not impossible.
Welldone Orania keep moving forward 👏 💪
This interview is noticably intended to be non bias yet the tone of dissapprovement is quite obvious . Orania is allowed to exist because of the exact right to freedom every human being must insist on in existence.The right of self determination and freedom of association.if this is a problem Mr Lesufi you should start disassembling every culture and gathered comunity in S.A.😂good luck with that.other than the annoying hipocracy of self-righteous crytics .good talk.
Wow - where does one start? As a first off, the time has come to set some ground rules into this debate of elf determination et al. So, Mr Lesufi needs to pull his head out of a certain part of is anatomy; I will not however hold my breath. First, the Afrikaner has the right to self determination whether he likes it or not and whether or not it is provided for in the constitution or not. Second, the Afrikaner does not always need to grovel at the feet of the ANC and their lackey's in order to justify their existence. Third, the regime came to power in 1994. Mr Mandela was released in 1990 and for all intents and purposes, apartheid ended in the late 80's. Fourth, the track record of the regime since then has been abysmal. How this man can bleat on about Orania because they want to lead and fulfill their own destiny apart from the disaster that is the new SA is astounding. Fifth, maybe Mr Lesufi is not aware of this; forcing others to adopt and follow a narrative is called fascism. Sixth, Lesufi said he hated racism or apartheid; very admirable. I assume that he is vigorously attempting to repeal the 100 or so laws that are race based; again, I will not hold my breath.
So, if we put a stop to Orania, what does that actually look like? Do military truck show up and dismantle the place? That sounds extreme, of course. So, de we force an expropriation of the property without compensation and give the citizens a period to vacate? Do we take people's homes and property and tell them to move? What kind of message does that send to the rest of the nation and the world that the government will randomly seize your investment? And what about foreign investors in Orania, what recourse do they have against the SA government? All that could get tricky; no one would want to invest in SA and people would leave. Hmmm.
So, I know. We could expropriate the property WITH fair compensation, and then force people to move out of their community. Except they'd probably move elsewhere together and build another community. But I'm one step ahead of them,
listen to this idea: We could make a list of all of their names and make it illegal for them to live next to each other.
But if we did that we'd have to make a law that any white people could not live next to each other. But we could do that too. We could forcibly ensure a rainbow nation by mandating that whites may not live next to each other, or, at least, not in
any kind of concentration within a certain geographic area. Because that's what we're essentially talking about. How's that going to work? Not realistic? Wait, I have more ideas.
We could forcibly mandate that Orania MUST allow blacks in. Would that be a lot of blacks, or just a few? Or, would we just say that Orania may not reject new members based on ethnicity? But, they would then say that they rejected an application based on something else and we could refute that claim in court and force them to accept a new black member.
So, essentially we would control their memberships. That would really throw a wrench into their little orange cogs. In fact they'd probably leave and blacks could buy the houses at a discounted price and run the town themselves and keep their own utilities operational or put them into the hands of the municipality and then we could change the name of the little town and it will eventually look like any other town in SA. So, if we put a stop to Orania, what does that actually look like?
Mr Lusufi. Now you have control and have failed dismally.
Respect Orania you do your thing
If segregation 'never ' works according to @bannisterjames, then how is it we have so much natural diversity? That alone is a testament to the natural order of segregation. Northern countries are some of the most peaceful, and compassionate ever known. Take sweden. Blonde Blue fair skin. . . . You don't get that by muIticulturaIism. You get cultures by thriving, and creating it organically. Segregation is natural and always works.
The North had some of the worst wars in human history, collectively murdering over 20 million MINIMUM in less than 30 years.
They further exported this death worldwide murdering millions of humans on other continents, wiping out entire animal species, and now, creating the biggest threat to the existence of all of humanity through climate change.
Secondly, the reason the North is peaceful, is because they have been doing nothing but fighting and murdering each other for thousands of years. And they were and are still proud of it!
It was only after the 20th century when they created the most destructive weapons humanity has ever seen, that they realised that they were doing something wrong.
Thirdly.
Blonde hair blue eyes didn't stop the Swedes from killing the Norwegians when the Swedish empire conquered Norway. It didn't stop the Swedes from killing the Finnish when they conquered Finland.
Hell, not even actual blood relation stopped those Whities from murdering each other, as it was proved when Queen Victoria had her children marry into nearly all of Europe's royal families with even the King of England at the time and the Czar of Russia looked EXACTLY the same. British monarch and the Prussian monarch (German Empire) were cousins, but do you know what these people did next? They started World War 1.
Why? How can ACTUAL BLOOD be content with killing eachother.
Well that's because THEY WERE CULTURALLY DIFFERENT.
I know you don't know this but White people aren't all the same.
A German is different to a Brit.
An Italian is different to a Serb.
They don't have the same culture!
Oh, and you want to know what's currently happening in Europe right now? Western Europeans are discriminating against Eastern Europeans.
But regardless, all of that multiculturalism tension is explainable.
As you see, culture is not something that is created overnight.
It is something that is built over time.
In Africa, many tribes were divided and warred against one another.
They saw themselves as different even though they were dark skinned and thick haired.
But then Europeans came along, and lumped all these different people into one collective race called "BLACK".
They gave all these Africans equal levels of oppression, and this over generations created a common culture amongst these previously divided African tribes.
Now they didn't see each other as Zulu and Xhosa. Now they saw eachother as Black.
And this developed a common culture amongst that particular racial construct.
The same with the Boers.
We had Dutch, French and German people who came here for similar reasons. Over hundreds of years, they coalesced and now, you have a person with a French like Jacques, speaking a variation of Dutch. (Which btw would EXTREMELY controversial if you went to a place like Belgium)
And last about nature and diversity.
Nature creates diversity out randomness and not of some divine order as you're implying.
You along with me and every human on earth, are a product of different species having MIXED together to create the best species to survive a certain environment.
Europeans are known to have mixed with Neanderthal, another species of human, that died off BECAUSE it didn't have enough MIXED GENES to survive...well, I guess they survived seeing that most Europeans have their genes so whatever.
Anyway.
Multiculturalism does not create diversity for the purpose of segregation. It creates for the purpose of survival.
Which means, that if you decided to mix or you decided to not mix, would determine how well you would adapt in the environment.
If you had mixed children and the climate became warmer, the chance that your children would live longer and your genes would survive would be high, as the higher melanin content and tighter moisture absorbing hair might provide some protection against the ramifications of that global disaster, compared to that of the moisture losing hair and low melanin skin of a lighter non mixed child.
In Orania is no crime.they are save there.
Lesufi should rather put his efforts in making Eskom work....
Vandag is Hemelvaartdag. Alle eer aan YHWH en die Heilige Gees vir die Messiah, Christus Jesus. Dankie Christus Jesus dat u ons kom verlos het en n verlossingsdag en versoeningsdag met die ware Almagtige God wie se Naam bo alle name, krone, trone, magte, owerhede en prinsipaliteite geskryf staan, vir ons moonlike gemaak het. Geseënde Hemelvaartdag gebore uit ons Skepper.
Let’s look fairly at who has achieved what. I who have a skill set in great demand in SA have been unable to even apply for jobs because I have a white skin. It is hypocritical and disingenuous for the racist ANC to level accusations of racism at Oranje. The leaders of Oranje govern their tiny little community in a tiny part of SA for the benefit of the community they serve. There is no crime in Oranje, while the ANC governs a country where they cannot even deliver that most fundamental of human rights: to live without constant fear of murder and rape. The leaders of Oranje do not steal tax money from their community to buy presidential jets and lavish homes all over the world. The community of Oranje is lead by people who serve their people while in SA as a whole being a politician means attaining enough authority to steal tax payer money. The people of Oranje are an embarrassment to the SA govt because they demonstrate in their own quiet way every day how a community can be self sufficient, caring of the needy, law abiding and live in peace with their neighbours.
Theres that Ultra Racist word again ...." Work"
The Afrikaner is being excluded so I think it is correct they focus on self-improvement and building independant institutions so their people can be employed and eat.
You cannot renage on an agreement and say we never meant it.
Why must they accept exclusion from jobs and the economy. As Joost says, the stress levels are low in Orania and the trust is high and they are getting their self-esteem back.
Well done to them. Save yourselves. You are more than capable.
Im white can i go and live in the Bantustans, I've always wanted to live in the transkei any Government official that can answer me ot would be appreciated
Yep, its possible and you will be welcomed. Will try find a link of a young family who live the simple "Tribal" life.
Heres someone living in Rural Transkei
th-cam.com/video/m_b1DGnVqrg/w-d-xo.html
@@brucedownunda7054 im asking if a white man or woman can own a deed in Transkei, because renting I Know is possible, but to Own the land that is my Qeustion
NAC should focus on Corruption rather looking at Orania.
Everything was built with private money. Not a cent from government. They spend their private money wisely and it is accounted for.
Lesufi...black and white can live together????or are forced to live together???
Why do they not talk about Swaziland or Lesotho or the Transkei ? Why do black peoples not like this?
They make and create their own business and success
Listening the choice of words by Lesufi is nothing but racism.
Lesufi should have put his pride away and should take some pointers from orania on how to run a country. I believe orania will thrive and this will seriously piss the ANC off because they know that they are doing it wrong.
Has Democracy lost its Relevance, should be the question and NoT vice versa
I’m 100% on board on what the community is trying to achieve and I sincerely hope they go from strength to strength. The only thing I cannot accept is they celebrate people like Verwoerd where they ignore the atrocity that was caused.
Well whatever they celebrate on their private proptt has got nothing to do anyone even you.
I Can't Understand WHY ITS A PROBLEM When Some people are Running their Own Lives??? South Africa Has So Many Problems??? Loadshedding? Politics? Corruption? And God knows what else??? Leave Oranje Alone!!!! They Don't Bother S A Residents for Anything👍🙏👏
"There can be no inch of South Africa that cannot be accessable to any South African"
So, do I have a right to come and live in your living room?
Comment : There are large swathes of this country where my family cannot go, because if we do my wife and daughters will be raped and all of us murdered. So Mr. ANC just take a little less pride in the mess of a country that you govern.
@@Wolf-hh4rv
I wonder who told you Boers crp like this.
You people are incredibly paranoid. Your collective community needs to see a medical professional to deal with this. Genuinely speaking.
@@lu881 Perhaps you should visit Orania someday and make up your own mind?
@@Hannodb1961 mampara . Go live in your neighbors living room and see if he happy before you talk rubbish.
Orania is not racist country. They are progressing in education. Panyaza your ÀNC govt. is failing the South Africans, you failed to build a UNIVERSITY in past 27 years.
Shame on you ANC.
Puik onderhoud.
congrajulations to the afrikaner community. there is no language without its homeland in south africa. i mean a community where you reside as citizen and be assimilate by the language and culture of that community. no one with do that for afrikaner community axcept the afrikaner people. all eleven languages have their homeland .
Shocking !!!
Mr Lesufi did you listen . THE PAIN OF CORRUPTION
Anc must be stop ...they should be ashame of what the people do in oranja
The Constitution allowed Orania to exist.
The people of orania are against the culture of stealing, that is why they are so successful and that is why they are a cultural community.
Orania pays tax to SARS and it has not been said that they failed to comply to Government. The majority party except that income so they approve Orania. Western Cape was lost to the ruling party of national government and will loose Western Cape nationally and have their majority dwindling in the next election throughout South Africa. How their reps can threaten other party ideals blows ones mind. That's not democracy. The voter will make the final decision that's democracy.
Why can't you just leave the people of Orania? Zululand, Botswana, Lesotho, they are all independent but that doesn't bother you!
Amazing that the first few callers agree with the Oranie idea, as soon as the MEC talk against it she gives him more air time than the first three callers..... I Wonder how democratic this is... the 1st 3 callers agree with orania and she cuts them short the first one that does not agree get 5 times more time than the 1st 3 combined... Very Democratic !!!!
The interviewer and lesufi cannot wrap their heads around the fact that Oranjia is an alternative cultural movement that is working. They are minding their own business.Leave them alone.Time has shown that what they are doing works. Unfortunately the anc have not been able to do anything of value anywhere. 30 years of what? Section 265 of the constitution allows for Oranjia. Hou op om vir die bobbejan agter die berg te gaan haal.😮
Let's compare Orania to other towns in Africa. 1) It's the only town in Africa that is crime free. 2) It's the only town in Africa where only white people with one culture lives and work. 3) It's the only town in Africa with no littering, potholes, filthy streets and leaking pipes. 4) It's the only town in Africa that many blacks are critisising and hate. Please stop to be jealous of those people and rather follow their example. Be proud of you're own culture and race and religeon and be good to all other people and life on earth. Work hard...be good...do not throw you're pearls for the pigs.
Lesufi what is his IQ