The title is 99% pure clickbait. There is one single mention of "M4": "I can run more displays off this single Pi 5 than a brand new M4 Pro Mac Mini." which doesn't support the broad claim of the title. That's 12 minutes I'll never get back.
Doom Eternal on a raspberry pi still hitting 30fps is insane. Even though the use case for a dgpu on a pi is limited, I think this demonstrates just how far modern ARM cpus can go on a tight power budget.
Alternately, it shows just how incompetent most game CPU coding is, that some no more complicated games can't hold 60fps on a modern desktop CPU. Meanwhile Doom Eternal can do 1000fps.
I do admire Jeff Geerling because he is always willing to learn, credit where credit is due, and most importantly, doesn't drive at 90Mph on a residential area.
I love the GPU madness series of videos - absolute fave..probably because I remember the early days of linux where getting X to run was a massive deal.
Nowadays I'm constantly impressed with Mesa, Vulkan, etc. how things 'just work' once you get the physical layer and base driver going. Just 10 years ago I'd probably spend more time battling a desktop environment instead of... doing fun stuff on Linux :D And Proton/Wine/Steam/Box86 really drives that home!
New games are big because the textures are huge. It boils down to objects not looking potato when you get close to them while playing at 4k, especially on large displays like TVs. There are some beautiful games with minimal amount of textures and mostly shader and particle effects driven, but those are few and far between, and often not demanding. Like thumper
Also, there’s lack of optimisation due to lazy development strategies that are often a result of increased cases of time crunch, which means MANY more games are being cranked out at once but the output of a game studio becomes sloppier as a result.
@@fujinshu I don't know what world you're living in where "MANY more games are being cranked out at once". Pick practically any studio, you'll see that the output is way down compared to what it was in the past.
I remember thinking that the Raspberry Pi would be the only notable piece of tech that could not run Crysis or Doom, but now I can finally put that theory to rest...
Eben stated when the Raspberry Pi 5 first lunched that a 16GB model was possible. I've been crossing my fingers that they would release that soon since then. But it looks like Forza Horizon 4 could run well on here with more RAM. I would love to have a 16GB Pi as they make great web servers.
Margins on such low-mid cards are lowish because there's competition (would be lower if AMD had any mindshare). It's the high-end cards from nVidia that have no competition that give high margins, nevermind the AI stuff that has like 90% gross margin.
if you priced all of the componants on a 4090 that card would cost you less than $300 to build. the profit margines are insane, on almost every product anyone buys because there are zero regulations on how much a company can rip someone off if they will pay the price.
@@bdhale34 You're talking out of your ass. While nVidia's profit margins are probably the highest in the industry (outside of budget cards at least), that means ~50% gross margin. The 4090 BoM is a hell of a lot more than $300. The GPU die cost alone is ~$225 assuming 90% yields.
@ The tech hardware industry in particular has always seemed vulnerable to price fixing due to there only being a few suppliers and a few leading design IPs for memory, CPUs, GPUs, storage and the like. It’s not like Micron is a bakery in New York competing with a thousand others. I’m convinced that a 24 terabyte “Enterprise” magnetic drive might cost 50% more to manufacture at scale than a 5 terabyte “consumer” one now- and the absurd premium is just a worldwide price fixing cartel.
Epic Look Mum No Computer outro! Love the ARM64 PCIe experiments a lot, looking forward to the Ampere content too. Running a Snapdragon ARM64 my main machine since a year with Windows, but ARM64 it really can't be seen as a real PC alternative. I can't even run Linux on it properly, because Qualcomm isn't interested, also I couldn't add a big GPU. In general with the ARM64 stuff support is really dependent on specific interests of the big manufacturers (Nvidia: Linux + AI, totally works, Windows + Gaming.. not at all :D) your efforts and documentation really pushes things that should be working already to.. working - keep it up!
As a workaround for not having ROCm on ARM, consider trying Vulkan acceleration for LLMs instead. Performance takes about a 25% hit in my experience, but it's something.
@@JeffGeerling you should still be able to bypass ollama and load the underlying models through code e.g. tensorflow or pytorch. Those libraries have native ARM support, though to get hardware acceleration working you may need to specify that you want to use Vulkan or OpenGL, as they won't assume that by default.
OpenCL is also available on AMD gpus via rusticl if you have an up to date version of mesa if ollama or other llms can use that (provided it works on ARM)
@@JeffGeerling you can use llama.cpp directly as Ollama also uses llama.cpp in the background. ARM is supported, as it can be used with Apple Metal. But performance wise, in my experiments, its 2-3 times slower than ROCm.
Its never a dumb idea to make something work, its only inefficient and a bit silly if you have to buy expensive high performance new stuff that you know is going to bottleneck in your intended real world deployment. But getting a GPU working on a low power CPU, or with unusual architecture opens up so many sane usecases.
So next step - fast network switch, multiple RPis with ramdisk shared via NFS and mounted as swap. I did that years ago, shared 12GB over 100Mb/s network into 1GB RAM netbook via NFS. I was very surprised how well that worked! :)
When I tried it with NBD, I always lost the connection when it tried to swap back in, but I haven't tried NFS for swap yet. If it works reliably, that'd be a good option to deal with the memory hog that is steamwebhelper.
@@JeffGeerling I have two old iMac G4's, but they are not the widescreen/higher resolution models. If I did this, I'd have to have a widescreen iMac G4. But yeah, I'm a bit jealous of his new iMac G4-M4. I will say though, it's probably the only video Sean has made that made me want to replicate it... everything else just looks like torture, but it's entertainment for us!
13:49 just going by the error message it appears to be related to loading unsigned/invalidly signed firmware, or something like that. If it hasn't been fixed yet, I'm sure it will be soon.
Would be interesting to have a future CM5 connected to a laptop formfactor GPU (MXM) on a carrier board. Some of those are pretty cheap, like a used rx 5500xt with MXM connecter can be had for 40€ over here
I did a quick Geekbench 6 compute on the M4 Max 64GB and it it outpacing the AMD Radeon Pro W7700. Pretty impressive that a 14" notebook GPU is even in the same league as a 190W dual slot desktop card.
Sheeeeesh! M4 Max is amazing-and I'm hopeful they intro an M4 Ultra at some point. I would loooove to upgrade my Studio now that my home Mac is faster than my 'work' Mac!
@@JeffGeerling What is funny is I ended up using the M1 Max 64GB laptop all the time, and much more seldomly the M1 Ultra 128GB Studio. Portability is key for me.
How far has Asahi Linux gotten now ? They got all major non-GPU hardware working fine on the m1 and m2 I believe ? And GPU progress was really good I think ?
I did a lot of comparisons between 1080p and 4K, and surprisingly, the performance is usually close enough I prefer 4K on my larger monitor. The CPU/bus bottleneck clears up at much lower resolutions (like 720p or less), but then things get a little more pixelated :( There's still room for improvement in the driver though-it's doing a couple tweaks that take away a little performance. And for things like OBS, there are other ways to optimize screen capture I haven't explored.
A reason for why Doom Eternal ran so well is that most (or all, I don't remember) of the lighting is pre-baked into textures (also why the download is massive).
You have great taste in games. Portal and Portal 2 are about the peak of gaming experience IMO! Perfect balance of gameplay, graphics, storyline, and soundtrack, plus a really innovative and flexible game mechanic.
Modern AAA games are big because they include huge high resolution assets like massive textures and their mipmaps, incredibly detailed models with often 6 level of detail, etc. It then has to include all the lower resolution assets for lower quality settings. Console games are often smaller because they can specifically tune the asset pool, but on PC you don't know if the person running your game is going to run it on low or ultra settings so you have to include everything to make that possible.
In Chinese, we call this hardware combination '吕布骑狗'.🤣 Okay, to be serious, it's a really useful test. Can't wait to see Compute Module 5 with more extensibility.
When you replied "why not Half-Life 2 in 4k60?" I was like "errrr....", now I see the results. Impressive progress there! As someone who really likes PC games of that era anyway, the Pi 5 could be fun to use for a retro gaming rig.
This is quite impressive for sure. I just always find myself wanting more pcie lanes on the pi. I know that's an engineering task, but imagine having even one more available. Or a total of four, and even at gen 3 speeds, the bandwidth is tantalizing. Splitting that between nvme and a GPU feels like a dream.
Thank you for your work making this possible. I'm sure it plays some role in AMD drivers development. ANd second - for sharing "Action Retro", guy seem good, I wonder why i never stumbled on hm before.
Finally you did it! And we did it! I m following your videos about this pi+gpu concept. I would love to see a video with RX 6400 from amd working with a pi5. Maybe test New Vegas, Bioshock, Assassins Creed series.
Ha, I actually just bought it this week, because I've been carrying that PC from place to place all the time, and finally tweaked my back doing it. It's a Eureka PC cart I found on Amazon.
I think one reason why games are so memory-laden is better to keep up with the speed and demand of performance today. they don't compress their files as much so it is available right away. plus since today's peripherals and PC components can "dew it", developers don't bother trying to squeeze out any unnecessary bytes. so basically I'm sure there's a way they can like cut their code in half and save on memory, but because computers are so powerful and people have huge hard drive capacity anyway, they don't bother. plus I'm sure manufacturers of them are happy when you upgrade your storage to fit the next never ending games that are released
This isn't just fun to do, but a peek into the future! What would blow my mind would be if the asahi linux team could develop a thunderbolt driver, we could be using nvidia/amd gpus on macs again while running linux lol
I can just picture a package arriving at Jeff's office while he was filming that surfshark ad spot. "Hello, Package for Jeff? Uhhh...Yes. You can put it down over there please, I don't have hands at the moment".
The proof of concept is great. It doesn't need to be practical, it will find it's use cases and this is why we youtube. Better dust off the 1080ti(wonder if I could get that to work). I can prepare my underground apocalypse bunker with a back-up gaming PC now.
Speaking of display outputs, having a gaming laptop with dGPU kind of saved my bacon in theatre tech. We needed to run 4 separate projectors simultaneously at one point in our play, and most laptops with iGPU couldn’t do it and keep the internal display. Using both the iGPU (USB-C alt mode to HDMI converters) and dGPU (the latter assigned to the internal display via mux), I was able to pull it off, with room for one more (the HDMI is connected to the dGPU). I found that hyper specific niche case that a Macbook cannot touch. 😝
I have two hopes. One, your GPU patches gets added to the main Raspberry Pi Kernel. Two, Rockchip for their 35XX have this PCI-E development get better to people can use GPUs on those things.
I have a debian 12 that when i stream from steam to my nvidia shield pro, i cant navigate the stream mode menu. Streaming from a Windows PC works as expected. What did you do to make the menu function as expected when streaming from a Linux box?
I live next to a 5 G phone tower. A bunch of guys had the cabinet open and were working on the computers inside. They saw me looking and were worried I was a "anti 5g nut" I simply asked "Can you run Doom on that?"
I will be super excited about this if big Nvidea CUDA cards for Ollama and local LLMs become plausible. Thanks for letting us know right at the front of the video, but I still watched to the end. :)
6:37 it's cool to see what theraspberry pi can become. A small piece of electronics that you just to plug it into your TV and play your games. I currently do this with my laptop, but it's kind of large and bulky, and in the way.
i wonder if the cpu being hammered to 100% all the time also has to do with your memory usage being so high the system might be swapping quite a lot and that could be impacting the cpu
Definitely with some of these games! And I even tried some larger LLM models and they would just thrash indefinitely when they ran out of physical RAM.
Really excited about this, it would be great to see this on another more powerful ARM SBC, but I am sure that would take way too much effort to get it working on boards with way smaller Userbases. But this on an rk3588 with 16GB of RAM would be very interesting.
Definitely-I once tried a year ago, haven't since. But one of the big issues is trying to get newer Linux kernels on these boards, since a lot of driver fixups happen between like 5.10 to 6.1, and 6.1 to 6.6, etc. On the Pi, it's official Pi OS stays pretty close to modern LTS releases, so it's been easier to maintain patches.
They *just* updated it this week, so it works on Wayland, and can stream to Pi 5 in 4K60! Though that only works through the Pi's iGPU right now. It seems like they didn't account for someone trying it through an eGPU haha.
With game size, think of it like this: There's 10 times as many objects with 10 times as much resolution, that's 100 times as much data to store. Each quality of the game is a multiplier and they're trying to cram more into every category at once, so it's not linear without major optimizations.
Why do these games work on the PI at all? Would't you need an x86 to ARM translation layer? Or do these games work nativly on Linux and Linux makes it work somehow?
Awesome as always.. thanks! as for the lack of RAM? just "download more RAM!" (and if you remember *that* reference - and false advertising - yer as old as me!)
I really don't get why Apple Silicon Macs don't have eGPU support yet. They could (in theory) continue supporting Radeon cards and support Intel Arc cards. Would be funny if (much like widespread games support) we got eGPU support working on Asahi Linux before MacOS.
This is my prediction... I wish Apple still cared about the Mac Pro, because it really is decent hardware. It's just not allowed to run at its full potential because the PCIe cards allowed in it are very limited.
@@JeffGeerlingit’s more like Apple hates working with external companies then anything else. They’ll just make excuses instead of owning up to the truth.
I realize it's in your wheelhouse of interest, and R Pi probably encourage you by sending you stuff, but you do such a good job making things look fun and accessible. I started thinking about seriously playing around with Raspberry Pis about a year ago. My frustrations with windows and seeing if I'd be more satisfied with Linux only making me consider more, and I stumbled on your channel when doing a little research and you quickly had me excited about a number of possibilities with the Pi 5. To the point I'm thinking I should buy a R Pi 5 or two this year in the coming weeks. One for retro, one for just normal stuff and learning Linux to see what I can do with it when I don't need my gaming laptop. (I'll probably start with one and have two different storage / boot drives). I'm still hoping that they create an (semi-)official Graphics Card hat or base to make that aspect easier for mid-range rendering. But that's probably another generation out, unless the market suddenly has a massive demand for it. Although I wonder what the boards for the CM 5 will offer when it becomes available. But if there's a reasonably accessible and inexpensive way to get the Pi to emulate like a PS4 Pro for gaming (~10 year old Mid-range gaming PC), that would be the point where I couldn't ask for more to be fully satisfied. The Pi 5 is already basically there, but the GPU is definitely not.
The best thing about SBCs (whether Pi or something else) is I can feel amazing if I get something to work (it's boring getting things working when they're expected to work)... and I also don't get depressed when I completely fry one, because that's $50 or $60 and not $600 or $1000 of computer I just cooked :D
I've been saying it for years, if we get x86/ARM translation going well ARM portables will dominate, the current SD chips are beasts, they just need the PC library for take over the handheld space, maybe ARM+AMD is also a good combo, hope in some years the Steam Deck 3 run games at 1080p for like 6 hours
It's crazy to me that one of your first videos are ever watched was the start of this "GPU on Pi" journey, where the driver kept locking up and was a total loss. And now we're seeing current AMD cards working.
It’s possible that what we value is the ability to sync with the iPad. What I’m thinking is using the iPad Mini when going out and the Mac Mini when coming back.
Hey Jeff, did you hear about Pi 5 SOC support with the new 6.12 Linux Kernel? I even heard that you can take TCP packets and place them directly in the memory of the device you want, without having to make a copy and then send it.
So I need to ask a question and it might seem stupid to ask. Does running running the Pi 5 with an external video card make day to day performance better. When running a browser, do things update quicker and respond faster?
You may be able to connect more monitors by streaming to other devices, and also vnc...(...aaand you already thought about streaming. (LOL!, commenting before the end of the video))
Surely you mean your GPU has a better Raspberry Pi than the M4 Pro does ?
Still impressive arm support here ... The openess of rasp5 Is something average Apple simp Will never understand ...
The title is 99% pure clickbait. There is one single mention of "M4":
"I can run more displays off this single Pi 5 than a brand new M4 Pro Mac Mini."
which doesn't support the broad claim of the title. That's 12 minutes I'll never get back.
🤣
@@-danR This title is not clickbait, it's video about running external GPU on RPi 5 that is more powerful than M4 integrated GPU.
@@-danR No sense of humor, huh?
All I wanna know is if I can play Jeff Geerling videos in 4K.
babe come quick, they got GPUs working on the Raspberry Pi 5
This might allow Nintendo switch,Xbox 360, ps 3 emulation on a pi might still need a pi 6 with better cpu performance but we're close
Doom Eternal on a raspberry pi still hitting 30fps is insane. Even though the use case for a dgpu on a pi is limited, I think this demonstrates just how far modern ARM cpus can go on a tight power budget.
imagine if it was a Snappy X Elite
@@123Andersonev I soooooo wish Qualcomm would see 'real' PCIe expansion as something worth adding. The Dev Kit came close but didn't deliver there.
@@JeffGeerling Full PCIe for ARM would be a game changer, we might even see more development for faster Raspberry Pi compute modules.
@@AndrewAHayes Doesn’t Ampere have that? Not at all an SBC, but still ARM.
Alternately, it shows just how incompetent most game CPU coding is, that some no more complicated games can't hold 60fps on a modern desktop CPU. Meanwhile Doom Eternal can do 1000fps.
Shoutout to Action Retro, LMNC music in the background. What a time to be alive :D
4:37 Linus would be proud of that segue.
No way 😂😂😂😂
Nobody cares.
@@tablettablete186 He means that guy from LTT, not the one from the LF.
"Super easy to install steam, barely an inconvenience". I see what you did there Jeff.
I missed that pitch meeting moment.
Wow wow wow!
He said the thing from the other thing!
@@Reeonimus He did it that way because I needed him to do it so the movie could happen. Besides, that's the way physics works.
Using six monitors on a Pi5 is tight! Cheers, daveyb
I do admire Jeff Geerling because he is always willing to learn, credit where credit is due, and most importantly, doesn't drive at 90Mph on a residential area.
Yet most people would still watch and believe that person who drives at 90mph in a residential area simply because he has millions of subs.
He doesn’t sell $50 jpgs either 😂
But he did to run 4K on a Pi GPU
i don’t get the reference
@@TheEmptyHoliness It’s about Marques Brownlee.
I love the GPU madness series of videos - absolute fave..probably because I remember the early days of linux where getting X to run was a massive deal.
Nowadays I'm constantly impressed with Mesa, Vulkan, etc. how things 'just work' once you get the physical layer and base driver going. Just 10 years ago I'd probably spend more time battling a desktop environment instead of... doing fun stuff on Linux :D
And Proton/Wine/Steam/Box86 really drives that home!
Jensen's Crysis comment had some serious "How do you do, fellow kids" energy
Only gamers would get that joke!
New games are big because the textures are huge. It boils down to objects not looking potato when you get close to them while playing at 4k, especially on large displays like TVs. There are some beautiful games with minimal amount of textures and mostly shader and particle effects driven, but those are few and far between, and often not demanding. Like thumper
Also, there’s lack of optimisation due to lazy development strategies that are often a result of increased cases of time crunch, which means MANY more games are being cranked out at once but the output of a game studio becomes sloppier as a result.
@@fujinshui ❤ uncompressed 4k textures
It goes beyond that also though. The current triple AAA dev cycle doesn't prioritize compression or optimization as a huge priority.
@@fujinshu I don't know what world you're living in where "MANY more games are being cranked out at once". Pick practically any studio, you'll see that the output is way down compared to what it was in the past.
Even still they don't optimize for shit. Just look at how much memory Hitman 2 & 3 got down to
Cool that u used the music of "look mum no computer". U should do that more!
Looooove his channel, his vibe, his music :D
Just want to go visit that museum next time I'm in the UK.
I remember thinking that the Raspberry Pi would be the only notable piece of tech that could not run Crysis or Doom, but now I can finally put that theory to rest...
I feel like they can all run doom (90s doom at least)
3:30 Wow wow wow Wow
Oh wow.
Ryan George references are tight!
@@JeffGeerlingwow wow wow wow
Eben stated when the Raspberry Pi 5 first lunched that a 16GB model was possible. I've been crossing my fingers that they would release that soon since then. But it looks like Forza Horizon 4 could run well on here with more RAM. I would love to have a 16GB Pi as they make great web servers.
16GB would be great for ZFS as well.
Can you get away with using Ram on a GPU?
This makes me wonder what the margins are on $300 and $400 GPUs.
I just wish there were more budget GPUs available these days :(
Margins on such low-mid cards are lowish because there's competition (would be lower if AMD had any mindshare). It's the high-end cards from nVidia that have no competition that give high margins, nevermind the AI stuff that has like 90% gross margin.
if you priced all of the componants on a 4090 that card would cost you less than $300 to build. the profit margines are insane, on almost every product anyone buys because there are zero regulations on how much a company can rip someone off if they will pay the price.
@@bdhale34 You're talking out of your ass. While nVidia's profit margins are probably the highest in the industry (outside of budget cards at least), that means ~50% gross margin. The 4090 BoM is a hell of a lot more than $300. The GPU die cost alone is ~$225 assuming 90% yields.
@ The tech hardware industry in particular has always seemed vulnerable to price fixing due to there only being a few suppliers and a few leading design IPs for memory, CPUs, GPUs, storage and the like. It’s not like Micron is a bakery in New York competing with a thousand others.
I’m convinced that a 24 terabyte “Enterprise” magnetic drive might cost 50% more to manufacture at scale than a 5 terabyte “consumer” one now- and the absurd premium is just a worldwide price fixing cartel.
Epic Look Mum No Computer outro! Love the ARM64 PCIe experiments a lot, looking forward to the Ampere content too.
Running a Snapdragon ARM64 my main machine since a year with Windows, but ARM64 it really can't be seen as a real PC alternative. I can't even run Linux on it properly, because Qualcomm isn't interested, also I couldn't add a big GPU. In general with the ARM64 stuff support is really dependent on specific interests of the big manufacturers (Nvidia: Linux + AI, totally works, Windows + Gaming.. not at all :D) your efforts and documentation really pushes things that should be working already to.. working - keep it up!
0:26 the Team Rocket card :D
:D
As a workaround for not having ROCm on ARM, consider trying Vulkan acceleration for LLMs instead. Performance takes about a 25% hit in my experience, but it's something.
So far I can't get the Ollama stuff working with Vulkan because it's X86 only, but there may be other ways... still tinkering with that.
@@JeffGeerling you should still be able to bypass ollama and load the underlying models through code e.g. tensorflow or pytorch. Those libraries have native ARM support, though to get hardware acceleration working you may need to specify that you want to use Vulkan or OpenGL, as they won't assume that by default.
OpenCL is also available on AMD gpus via rusticl if you have an up to date version of mesa if ollama or other llms can use that (provided it works on ARM)
@@JeffGeerling you can use llama.cpp directly as Ollama also uses llama.cpp in the background. ARM is supported, as it can be used with Apple Metal. But performance wise, in my experiments, its 2-3 times slower than ROCm.
Its never a dumb idea to make something work, its only inefficient and a bit silly if you have to buy expensive high performance new stuff that you know is going to bottleneck in your intended real world deployment. But getting a GPU working on a low power CPU, or with unusual architecture opens up so many sane usecases.
So next step - fast network switch, multiple RPis with ramdisk shared via NFS and mounted as swap. I did that years ago, shared 12GB over 100Mb/s network into 1GB RAM netbook via NFS. I was very surprised how well that worked! :)
I mean, I shared 12GB of RAM from desktop PC to Intel Atom netbook and just browsed web, but it might work for games too.
When I tried it with NBD, I always lost the connection when it tried to swap back in, but I haven't tried NFS for swap yet. If it works reliably, that'd be a good option to deal with the memory hog that is steamwebhelper.
SSH -X bigiron firefox
I have to say your silliest content are my fave
♥
👋
But if you watch his latest iMac G4-M4 video though, he actually made something useful and good looking too... I think somethings wrong!
@@Toby_Q Haha I know... at the end of that video I was like ...and I want one now.
@@JeffGeerling I have two old iMac G4's, but they are not the widescreen/higher resolution models. If I did this, I'd have to have a widescreen iMac G4. But yeah, I'm a bit jealous of his new iMac G4-M4. I will say though, it's probably the only video Sean has made that made me want to replicate it... everything else just looks like torture, but it's entertainment for us!
13:49 just going by the error message it appears to be related to loading unsigned/invalidly signed firmware, or something like that. If it hasn't been fixed yet, I'm sure it will be soon.
Would be interesting to have a future CM5 connected to a laptop formfactor GPU (MXM) on a carrier board. Some of those are pretty cheap, like a used rx 5500xt with MXM connecter can be had for 40€ over here
Yet again pushing boundaries. Kudos. There are rumours of CM5 with 16gb, may make a lot more games playable on pi egpu setup.
I sure hope so!
I did a quick Geekbench 6 compute on the M4 Max 64GB and it it outpacing the AMD Radeon Pro W7700. Pretty impressive that a 14" notebook GPU is even in the same league as a 190W dual slot desktop card.
Sheeeeesh! M4 Max is amazing-and I'm hopeful they intro an M4 Ultra at some point. I would loooove to upgrade my Studio now that my home Mac is faster than my 'work' Mac!
@@JeffGeerling What is funny is I ended up using the M1 Max 64GB laptop all the time, and much more seldomly the M1 Ultra 128GB Studio. Portability is key for me.
How far has Asahi Linux gotten now ? They got all major non-GPU hardware working fine on the m1 and m2 I believe ? And GPU progress was really good I think ?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo True, you put in a lot more miles than I do!
@@autohmae It's great on M1/M2. Almost indistinguishable from x86 Fedora. My M3 Pro however cannot run it yet.
Kudos for the music by Look Mum, No Computer!
Looking forward to the Pi6 with Thunderbolt 4.
Haha!
With the rate at which Broadcom/Pi can adopt new tech, it'd probably be Thunderbolt 2 (which, ironically, would still be pretty useful :D)
Interested in seeing the perf of this setup in 1080p 😊
I did a lot of comparisons between 1080p and 4K, and surprisingly, the performance is usually close enough I prefer 4K on my larger monitor. The CPU/bus bottleneck clears up at much lower resolutions (like 720p or less), but then things get a little more pixelated :(
There's still room for improvement in the driver though-it's doing a couple tweaks that take away a little performance. And for things like OBS, there are other ways to optimize screen capture I haven't explored.
I don't even own a 4k TV yet. But nobody is complaining.
A reason for why Doom Eternal ran so well is that most (or all, I don't remember) of the lighting is pre-baked into textures (also why the download is massive).
You have great taste in games. Portal and Portal 2 are about the peak of gaming experience IMO! Perfect balance of gameplay, graphics, storyline, and soundtrack, plus a really innovative and flexible game mechanic.
thank you jeff for paving the way for the future on arm. I can definitely see valve making the steam deck 3/4 a full arm chip.
Modern AAA games are big because they include huge high resolution assets like massive textures and their mipmaps, incredibly detailed models with often 6 level of detail, etc. It then has to include all the lower resolution assets for lower quality settings. Console games are often smaller because they can specifically tune the asset pool, but on PC you don't know if the person running your game is going to run it on low or ultra settings so you have to include everything to make that possible.
They should just target 480p, problem solved!
But do they need to include everything? Couldn't they ship low-medium textures to save space, then have the ultra resolution textures as free DLC?
In Chinese, we call this hardware combination '吕布骑狗'.🤣
Okay, to be serious, it's a really useful test. Can't wait to see Compute Module 5 with more extensibility.
Thats quite the accomplishment Jeff. Excellent work dude. 👍
Jeff is the definition of a 'madlad'
“Super easy barely an inconvenience”
When you replied "why not Half-Life 2 in 4k60?" I was like "errrr....", now I see the results.
Impressive progress there! As someone who really likes PC games of that era anyway, the Pi 5 could be fun to use for a retro gaming rig.
This is quite impressive for sure. I just always find myself wanting more pcie lanes on the pi. I know that's an engineering task, but imagine having even one more available. Or a total of four, and even at gen 3 speeds, the bandwidth is tantalizing. Splitting that between nvme and a GPU feels like a dream.
Or dual 10 GbE Ethernet :D
Once the drivers get stable, a pi + a dedicated gpu could be genuinely a good enough combo for casual usage, and even games by the looks of it
I had to double check that it wasn't April 1st....incredible work...
Thanks for anticipating the question about LLMs and ROCm!
As an owner of a Pi and an old rx 580, I can only wonder what I could do with the two combined.
They finally got steamlink working for raspberry pi 5 😭 amazing!
Thank you for your work making this possible. I'm sure it plays some role in AMD drivers development.
ANd second - for sharing "Action Retro", guy seem good, I wonder why i never stumbled on hm before.
Such a flex! For piheads everywhere, this is great stuff
wow its really impressive considering most of these games are running under wine which also adds some overhead
Yeah, and that the overhead is mostly more RAM usage and a bit CPU makes it worse
I appreciated the "barely an inconvenience" reference 🙂
Probably wont see it till next gen, but id love to see 16gb and 32gb models of the pi.
Finally you did it! And we did it! I m following your videos about this pi+gpu concept. I would love to see a video with RX 6400 from amd working with a pi5. Maybe test New Vegas, Bioshock, Assassins Creed series.
Quick question, what is that trolley you are using for your gaming PC? I need one!
Ha, I actually just bought it this week, because I've been carrying that PC from place to place all the time, and finally tweaked my back doing it. It's a Eureka PC cart I found on Amazon.
Hey Jeff. Do you plan to try same setup with RK3588 boards? They often have full PCIE gen3 x4 and twice the core number. Might work better...
*Super easy, barely an inconvenience* I see what you did there!
When the device is cheaper than the game itself.
I think one reason why games are so memory-laden is better to keep up with the speed and demand of performance today. they don't compress their files as much so it is available right away. plus since today's peripherals and PC components can "dew it", developers don't bother trying to squeeze out any unnecessary bytes. so basically I'm sure there's a way they can like cut their code in half and save on memory, but because computers are so powerful and people have huge hard drive capacity anyway, they don't bother. plus I'm sure manufacturers of them are happy when you upgrade your storage to fit the next never ending games that are released
This isn't just fun to do, but a peek into the future! What would blow my mind would be if the asahi linux team could develop a thunderbolt driver, we could be using nvidia/amd gpus on macs again while running linux lol
My hope, tbh!
Absolute mad lad.
BTW your Ansible guides helped me a lot landing a job so thank you good sir.
I can just picture a package arriving at Jeff's office while he was filming that surfshark ad spot. "Hello, Package for Jeff? Uhhh...Yes. You can put it down over there please, I don't have hands at the moment".
It's just a challenge figuring out how to do everyday things with shark-hands!
The proof of concept is great. It doesn't need to be practical, it will find it's use cases and this is why we youtube.
Better dust off the 1080ti(wonder if I could get that to work). I can prepare my underground apocalypse bunker with a back-up gaming PC now.
Amazing this would be great for emulation and possibly Tensorflow in the future.
Bottlenecking your graphics card with a potato is always a good policy.
Speaking of display outputs, having a gaming laptop with dGPU kind of saved my bacon in theatre tech. We needed to run 4 separate projectors simultaneously at one point in our play, and most laptops with iGPU couldn’t do it and keep the internal display.
Using both the iGPU (USB-C alt mode to HDMI converters) and dGPU (the latter assigned to the internal display via mux), I was able to pull it off, with room for one more (the HDMI is connected to the dGPU).
I found that hyper specific niche case that a Macbook cannot touch. 😝
There's always a niche use case for even the wildest of setups!
Hey Jeff, am I missing something here? What sort of compatibility layer are you using to run x86 executables on ARM, particularly on the rpi?
I installed Box86/Box64 and Steam with Pi-Apps, and that uses Proton to translate windows to Linux.
I have two hopes. One, your GPU patches gets added to the main Raspberry Pi Kernel. Two, Rockchip for their 35XX have this PCI-E development get better to people can use GPUs on those things.
I knew this would improve fast but not this fast! Pi support is unrivaled.
I have a debian 12 that when i stream from steam to my nvidia shield pro, i cant navigate the stream mode menu.
Streaming from a Windows PC works as expected.
What did you do to make the menu function as expected when streaming from a Linux box?
I was streaming *from* a Windows 11 install to the Pi, so maybe there's still a bug with streaming from Linux :/
This makes me want to try getting Steam to work on Ampere and my M1 Pro MBP running NixOS.
Wait, can macOS run NixOS?!?!
I thought only Asahi could run so far!
I'm fairly sure you can run LLMs and other models on this with GPU support using something which has it's own userspace like tinygrad !
Don't you mean your GPU has a Raspberry pi? Lol! Great video!
I live next to a 5 G phone tower. A bunch of guys had the cabinet open and were working on the computers inside. They saw me looking and were worried I was a "anti 5g nut" I simply asked "Can you run Doom on that?"
What was the reply dude 😂
@@HarshKumar-e6j ONE guy got it. Apparently he's been itching to try and find out
@@deanallenjones if you had successfully convinced them to play doom on it you must have praised in the subreddit
How does the saying go... "This $#!T is banana's" ... LOL
B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
@@JeffGeerling Nice! hahahaha
This is really cool. I would love to see a Arm-based steamdeck, but thought it is only a place in my dreams, but this brings me hope.
I will be super excited about this if big Nvidea CUDA cards for Ollama and local LLMs become plausible. Thanks for letting us know right at the front of the video, but I still watched to the end. :)
6:37 it's cool to see what theraspberry pi can become. A small piece of electronics that you just to plug it into your TV and play your games. I currently do this with my laptop, but it's kind of large and bulky, and in the way.
14:49 if he is Jeff Geerling till next time WHAT IS HE AFTER NEXT TIME
He will become Geff Jeerling
i wonder if the cpu being hammered to 100% all the time also has to do with your memory usage being so high the system might be swapping quite a lot and that could be impacting the cpu
Definitely with some of these games! And I even tried some larger LLM models and they would just thrash indefinitely when they ran out of physical RAM.
Really excited about this, it would be great to see this on another more powerful ARM SBC, but I am sure that would take way too much effort to get it working on boards with way smaller Userbases. But this on an rk3588 with 16GB of RAM would be very interesting.
Definitely-I once tried a year ago, haven't since. But one of the big issues is trying to get newer Linux kernels on these boards, since a lot of driver fixups happen between like 5.10 to 6.1, and 6.1 to 6.6, etc.
On the Pi, it's official Pi OS stays pretty close to modern LTS releases, so it's been easier to maintain patches.
Are these games compiled for x86-64 and emulated on arm?
Yes (with the exclusion of SuperTuxKart)
@@JeffGeerling that's really *really* impressive.
Steam Links works on a Pi? I knew it once did, but last time I tried, it complained, that it can't run on Wayland.
They *just* updated it this week, so it works on Wayland, and can stream to Pi 5 in 4K60!
Though that only works through the Pi's iGPU right now. It seems like they didn't account for someone trying it through an eGPU haha.
8:48 thats an xbox one s or newer controller
True... no glowing green X orb!
With game size, think of it like this: There's 10 times as many objects with 10 times as much resolution, that's 100 times as much data to store. Each quality of the game is a multiplier and they're trying to cram more into every category at once, so it's not linear without major optimizations.
How do we even get steam and steam link going on pi 5? I tried so many different installations when I got my 5 but could never get anything going.
`sudo apt install -y steamlink` - they just updated it this week :)
@@JeffGeerling Sick! Thanks for the reply (and the vid)!
Why do these games work on the PI at all? Would't you need an x86 to ARM translation layer? Or do these games work nativly on Linux and Linux makes it work somehow?
It goes x86 through Proton through Box64/Box86, then to arm64. A couple fun layers of emulation!
@JeffGeerling i works surprisingly well, for all that happening
Awesome as always.. thanks! as for the lack of RAM? just "download more RAM!" (and if you remember *that* reference - and false advertising - yer as old as me!)
A super-niche use case for an external GPU + Pi5 may be a tiny FFmpeg render server.
I really don't get why Apple Silicon Macs don't have eGPU support yet. They could (in theory) continue supporting Radeon cards and support Intel Arc cards.
Would be funny if (much like widespread games support) we got eGPU support working on Asahi Linux before MacOS.
This is my prediction... I wish Apple still cared about the Mac Pro, because it really is decent hardware. It's just not allowed to run at its full potential because the PCIe cards allowed in it are very limited.
@@JeffGeerlingit’s more like Apple hates working with external companies then anything else. They’ll just make excuses instead of owning up to the truth.
I realize it's in your wheelhouse of interest, and R Pi probably encourage you by sending you stuff, but you do such a good job making things look fun and accessible.
I started thinking about seriously playing around with Raspberry Pis about a year ago. My frustrations with windows and seeing if I'd be more satisfied with Linux only making me consider more, and I stumbled on your channel when doing a little research and you quickly had me excited about a number of possibilities with the Pi 5.
To the point I'm thinking I should buy a R Pi 5 or two this year in the coming weeks. One for retro, one for just normal stuff and learning Linux to see what I can do with it when I don't need my gaming laptop. (I'll probably start with one and have two different storage / boot drives).
I'm still hoping that they create an (semi-)official Graphics Card hat or base to make that aspect easier for mid-range rendering. But that's probably another generation out, unless the market suddenly has a massive demand for it. Although I wonder what the boards for the CM 5 will offer when it becomes available.
But if there's a reasonably accessible and inexpensive way to get the Pi to emulate like a PS4 Pro for gaming (~10 year old Mid-range gaming PC), that would be the point where I couldn't ask for more to be fully satisfied. The Pi 5 is already basically there, but the GPU is definitely not.
The best thing about SBCs (whether Pi or something else) is I can feel amazing if I get something to work (it's boring getting things working when they're expected to work)... and I also don't get depressed when I completely fry one, because that's $50 or $60 and not $600 or $1000 of computer I just cooked :D
Thanks for the video, it was news to me how many commercial games are available with natively compiled arm binaries already
I've been saying it for years, if we get x86/ARM translation going well ARM portables will dominate, the current SD chips are beasts, they just need the PC library for take over the handheld space, maybe ARM+AMD is also a good combo, hope in some years the Steam Deck 3 run games at 1080p for like 6 hours
It's crazy to me that one of your first videos are ever watched was the start of this "GPU on Pi" journey, where the driver kept locking up and was a total loss. And now we're seeing current AMD cards working.
thank you for being yourself, for your content and being a role model in this mad world!
The Radeons supports DisplayPort Multistream. So with daisy chained monitors and or a DisplayPort MSt-Hub you could add at least two more monitors.
Oooh... I wonder if Linux supports that correctly too?
Phoronix posted an article in 2021 that DP 2.0 support, including MST, was merged into kernel 5.16. So it _should_ work.
It’s possible that what we value is the ability to sync with the iPad. What I’m thinking is using the iPad Mini when going out and the Mac Mini when coming back.
Hey Jeff, did you hear about Pi 5 SOC support with the new 6.12 Linux Kernel?
I even heard that you can take TCP packets and place them directly in the memory of the device you want, without having to make a copy and then send it.
So I need to ask a question and it might seem stupid to ask. Does running running the Pi 5 with an external video card make day to day performance better. When running a browser, do things update quicker and respond faster?
You may be able to connect more monitors by streaming to other devices, and also vnc...(...aaand you already thought about streaming. (LOL!, commenting before the end of the video))
nice LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER music in the background
does valve ship portal 2 compiled for ARM or are you using the source engine leak or some form of compatability software
We need the after bloopers ghost subtitles like Technology Connections.