I love these little guys. I also like the way they aren't tethered to a certain 'alliance' such as Chaos or the Emperor. They're in their own sort of 'bubble'. I also just love the way the models look. A nice tiny stout grounded look. Thinking of swapping out Chaos Marines for these Dudes. 😂👍
@@shivy81 Incorrect, check the options for the Hearthkyn Warriors. At the bottom of the list of special/heavy weapons it includes the option for kin melee weapons. As well as not having the asterisk denoting 1 off options, thus allowing 2 dudes + the Theyn to have kin melee weapons.
@@TrustedSmokie8829 ah yes I stand corrected bit of a strange option as it’s not like it makes them that much stronger in combat and sacrifices a lot of firepower
@@shivy81 I mean, S5/-2/2 is the same profile as a blade guard's sword, half as many attacks and 1 worse weapon skill but if you're attacking a unit of marines with 2 tokens and you use the strat for +1AP in melee for each token then they're 3+ to hit, 2+ to kill with -4AP and 2 damage with 6 attacks. Not even close to what the beserks can do under the same circumstances, but I think it's a funny meme regardless.
Watching this video, I can't help but think we're reading two entirely different Indexes. GW essentially took everything that Votann had that was unique, fun, and flavorful and tore it out and gobbed out this mess of an Index full of errors and anti-synergies that was probably made in a couple of days. I honestly hope that whomever made this Index never touches an army that I play again because they've single handedly kicked any excitement I had for playing Votann before the codex square in the balls.
@@christopherberry6086 i think you have to select witch "Sustained Hits X" to use... also, as a Death Guard player and Votann player... well, let's wait the dust to settle
@@baronquack3493 I'm so sorry for you. I'm a Knights and Custodes main player, but I picked up votann back when they came out and feel the same for them.
@@baronquack3493 same here got games coming up vs CSM, and Aeldari and I'm hoping to schedule a game with Ad Mech for Death Guard and see if they're as bad in practice as they seem on paper.
Great video, thanks guys. I think there’s a good strategy with Sagitaurs bringing heavy weapons teams up to go for your Detachment target. Especially with the sustained hits strategem as you mentioned.
It's almost exactly the same as last time and still has the incredibly powerful auto 6 ability? Except now you can take him without running GTL? Don't be silly.
@@SmashingPixels No he isnt the same. Back in 9th. He could give that change of a roll to a six to a unit besides himself. Now he can't even give it to the unit he is in. He also had a big scary mortal dealing sword that they nerfed into the floor by making it devastating wounds, removing most of its strength by making it need to wound on 6s to do any mortals. With only 5 attacks you are literally never getting a mortal from the sword unless you are using his ability. Nor does he give any melee bonuses that gives you a reason to actually want to get his unit into melee. He also gives literally nothing good to his unit. A 5++ invuln just isnt a useful in 10th as it was in 9th. He also has a 7+ Leadership test. This is dumb. No epic hero should have this shit of a stat line. He is a worse Kahl because at least the Kahl gives lethal hits to units he is equipped to. What he does in no way matches the extra price you need to pay for him. He is literal garbage. Uthar has been so fucked in terms of abilities he will never ever be worth his price. He needs a complete rework to be even worth bringing, regardless of his points. For the only named character in the entire army this is an unnacepptable failure of game design. Uthar should have been the coolest model in terms of rules in the entire army. The fact that he is easily the worst Leader unit in the entire game is insulting.
It's nice but the Kahl's Kindred Hero ability kinda limits Hearthguard loadout, since Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds kinda counter-act each other. Feels a bit badly thought out to give a hero a ability which hampers a weapon option on one of the only two units they can lead...
The list is full of weird anti-synergies. Uthar buffs a damage roll he doesn't have, bunch of things give +1 hit which clashes oddly in an army whose rule gives +1 hit. Army is tough but army rule is built around losing things.
Designers commentary on Judgement tokens say if a unit splits they both keep the same number of judgement tokens. Wouldn't this not apply to the bodyguard unit dying? for another example in reverse. If you ruthless efficiency a character model, they then get added to a unit does the bodyguard unit get the tokens. Commentary says joining is additive for tokens count.
Hearing all the little differences the pre release index has to the actual index that was released is Kind of Interesting and sad. > pick an objective and units there get +1 token was changes to "until the End of the Phase", making IG completely useless as you cant so anything in the command Phase that keys off of tokens. > SP conversion beakers went down 1 AP across the board, thunderkyn AP is only 1 now and with cover all over the place its basically AP0. > warriors being forced go fixed 10 man blobs, making them really point inefficient other than splitting them with sagitaurs. On the other Hand its now written in that if a unit splits, than both parts keep the judgement tokens, which should also apply to characters splitting off of a dead Bodyguard unit. Bit i would habe to double check the core rule wording to know for sure.
3:00 I've been debating this with my friend who plays Votann. I understand that if a unit leaves the table (into reserves or whatever) then it keeps its judgement tokens and if a unit is brought back from the dead it loses its tokens. But when an attached unit splits into new seperate units it neither leaves the battlefield nor dies so can anyone clarify what the ruling is here?
According to the designer's notes about JTs: "If a unit with Judgement tokens splits up into two or more smaller units, each of those units gains a number of Judgement tokens equal to that of the original unit." My understanding is that both smaller units keep the same amount of tokens as the parent unit had before it split. So if a unit of 10 models had 2 JTs on it and then split into 2 units of 5 then both of those new units would have 2 JTs each.
This Army went from dominating to dominated real quick. The game mechanics, points, rushed rules and lack of flavour have totally annihilated this army
Just starting the get into 40k and was really excited about these guys from the lore but the army itself seems meh from a mechanical standpoint. May have to rethink
EDIT: NM FAQ cleared it up today If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a weapon’s Damage is reduced below 1 (it isn’t), whether abilities stack when duplicated (nope, pick one), or exactly which units can see into and out of ruins (with pictures!), we recommend giving this document a solid read.
@@davealbright3133 Ok i know what you are thinking...but here me out. Its +1 to hit. If they stack its +2. If someone has -1 to hit on that same unit you are trying to blast with the two tokens technically you are still at +1 and dont break the "no more than +1 modification rule"
@@davealbright3133 welp never mind new FAQ out today lol "If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a weapon’s Damage is reduced below 1 (it isn’t), whether abilities stack when duplicated (nope, pick one), or exactly which units can see into and out of ruins (with pictures!), we recommend giving this document a solid read."
The game of Warhammer has never in my memory allowed you to reduce damage below 1. The fact that people thought you could do that is infuriating to me.
I built the votann for 10th cus 5hey were the only faction I thought I liked the look of most, and then found out they were good after getting bit over 2k of 9th edition points, and I can't wait to eviscerat units with the hearthguard
Nope: TARGET: One unit from your army that is within 24" of that enemy unit and that would be eligible to shoot if it were your Shooting phase. EFFECT: Your unit can shoot that enemy unit as if it were your Shooting phase. RESTRICTIONS: Until the end of the phase, each time a model in your unit makes a ranged attack, an unmodified Hit roll of 6 is required to score a hit, irrespective of the attacking weapon’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers. You can only use this Stratagem once per turn.
How to play League of Votann? 3x10 Hearthguard and bunch of staff to sacrifice for tokens. Votann were gutted to the point theres only one legit outstanding unit. So again 3x10 Hearthguard with Kahl/Einhyr(sucks) and rest is something to sacrifice.
Hi, first time commenter and watcher here, will be my last time watching, but wanted to share feedback. Between the sponsors in the middle of chatting, the adverts for your own stuff, and google adverts. It was an extremely frustrating watch. That made this cintent twoce as long as it could have been. Throw in the general.... lack of confidence in what you are talking about? I watched to the end but i genuinely think you had a different set of rules to what came out. Or read everything exceedingly differently. But gl, hf and enjoy 10th!
I just have to ask, the real elephant in the room isn't the land fortress... But that the specific league mechanics has been erased... Now it's just a matter of color and they didn't deserve it, will it be possible to have them back?
This killed a lot of excitement for me with chaos space marines I imagine they will have generalized detachments which kind of approximate the sub faction rules but not completely
Guys youve painted all these really nice models: could you at least have put the camera ON the models? You have over half the video talking about the units but NOT showing them to us! Massive missed opportunity, video much duller as a result
Love the positivity here. The army looks decent. Some things like Uthar and Magnal rails on 5+ is really annoying, but with the point drop the army looks quite solid
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love these little guys. I also like the way they aren't tethered to a certain 'alliance' such as Chaos or the Emperor. They're in their own sort of 'bubble'. I also just love the way the models look. A nice tiny stout grounded look. Thinking of swapping out Chaos Marines for these Dudes. 😂👍
Hearthkyn can’t be fielded in a 5 man squad without a Sagitaur to split them
Which is why sagituars are currently out of stock literally everywhere in my area
@@tomdeneen4880 YEp had to 3D print mine both of them!
They’ve been out since they were brought to market last year… got to love limited supply
a lot more positive than i have seen elsewhere which is nice
positively delusional if people think there is anything to even say that's good about votann as a whole.
Positive because they completely f'd up some of the rules
6:32 warriors only have 1 attack each now, unless you give them kin weapon upgrades, but only three men can have that in a squad.
It’s only the theyn that can have that
@@shivy81 Incorrect, check the options for the Hearthkyn Warriors. At the bottom of the list of special/heavy weapons it includes the option for kin melee weapons. As well as not having the asterisk denoting 1 off options, thus allowing 2 dudes + the Theyn to have kin melee weapons.
@@TrustedSmokie8829 ah yes I stand corrected bit of a strange option as it’s not like it makes them that much stronger in combat and sacrifices a lot of firepower
@@shivy81 I mean, S5/-2/2 is the same profile as a blade guard's sword, half as many attacks and 1 worse weapon skill but if you're attacking a unit of marines with 2 tokens and you use the strat for +1AP in melee for each token then they're 3+ to hit, 2+ to kill with -4AP and 2 damage with 6 attacks. Not even close to what the beserks can do under the same circumstances, but I think it's a funny meme regardless.
Hearthkyn are min 10 my dude, 5 man split with Sags just like in 9th
It’s vanguard tactics what do you expect 😂
Watching this video, I can't help but think we're reading two entirely different Indexes. GW essentially took everything that Votann had that was unique, fun, and flavorful and tore it out and gobbed out this mess of an Index full of errors and anti-synergies that was probably made in a couple of days.
I honestly hope that whomever made this Index never touches an army that I play again because they've single handedly kicked any excitement I had for playing Votann before the codex square in the balls.
I don't think sustained hits strat stacks on sustained hits weapons. This looks like a GW can do no wrong sales video not a real faction break down
@@christopherberry6086 i think you have to select witch "Sustained Hits X" to use... also, as a Death Guard player and Votann player... well, let's wait the dust to settle
@@baronquack3493 I'm so sorry for you. I'm a Knights and Custodes main player, but I picked up votann back when they came out and feel the same for them.
@@baronquack3493 same here got games coming up vs CSM, and Aeldari and I'm hoping to schedule a game with Ad Mech for Death Guard and see if they're as bad in practice as they seem on paper.
@@baronquack3493 thats rough man...I am very sorry for your loss.
Appraising glance ends at the end of that command phase RAW at present. I assume this is a typo
Great video, thanks guys. I think there’s a good strategy with Sagitaurs bringing heavy weapons teams up to go for your Detachment target. Especially with the sustained hits strategem as you mentioned.
But Sagitaurs cant transport heavy weapon teams...
I also forgot that Uthar, our only EPIC HERO, has the worst data sheet in the game
It's almost exactly the same as last time and still has the incredibly powerful auto 6 ability? Except now you can take him without running GTL? Don't be silly.
@@SmashingPixels No he isnt the same.
Back in 9th. He could give that change of a roll to a six to a unit besides himself. Now he can't even give it to the unit he is in. He also had a big scary mortal dealing sword that they nerfed into the floor by making it devastating wounds, removing most of its strength by making it need to wound on 6s to do any mortals. With only 5 attacks you are literally never getting a mortal from the sword unless you are using his ability. Nor does he give any melee bonuses that gives you a reason to actually want to get his unit into melee.
He also gives literally nothing good to his unit. A 5++ invuln just isnt a useful in 10th as it was in 9th.
He also has a 7+ Leadership test. This is dumb. No epic hero should have this shit of a stat line.
He is a worse Kahl because at least the Kahl gives lethal hits to units he is equipped to.
What he does in no way matches the extra price you need to pay for him. He is literal garbage.
Uthar has been so fucked in terms of abilities he will never ever be worth his price. He needs a complete rework to be even worth bringing, regardless of his points. For the only named character in the entire army this is an unnacepptable failure of game design. Uthar should have been the coolest model in terms of rules in the entire army. The fact that he is easily the worst Leader unit in the entire game is insulting.
He is bad on EPIC scale!
@@SmashingPixelshe’s not man :(
It's nice but the Kahl's Kindred Hero ability kinda limits Hearthguard loadout, since Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds kinda counter-act each other. Feels a bit badly thought out to give a hero a ability which hampers a weapon option on one of the only two units they can lead...
Or use use the plasma load out with lethal hits
The list is full of weird anti-synergies. Uthar buffs a damage roll he doesn't have, bunch of things give +1 hit which clashes oddly in an army whose rule gives +1 hit. Army is tough but army rule is built around losing things.
Great video guys, really handy just coming back into 10th from a break.
Designers commentary on Judgement tokens say if a unit splits they both keep the same number of judgement tokens. Wouldn't this not apply to the bodyguard unit dying? for another example in reverse. If you ruthless efficiency a character model, they then get added to a unit does the bodyguard unit get the tokens. Commentary says joining is additive for tokens count.
The guy in the video is wrong, you're correct. If the bodyguard/leader dies, the remaining unit still has judgment token on it.
Thank you for another great faction analysis!
Only one Kahl can give out a judgement token
Our heros make transports difficult as well.
I always like these how to plays in order to know my enemy lol
Hearing all the little differences the pre release index has to the actual index that was released is Kind of Interesting and sad.
> pick an objective and units there get +1 token was changes to "until the End of the Phase", making IG completely useless as you cant so anything in the command Phase that keys off of tokens.
> SP conversion beakers went down 1 AP across the board, thunderkyn AP is only 1 now and with cover all over the place its basically AP0.
> warriors being forced go fixed 10 man blobs, making them really point inefficient other than splitting them with sagitaurs.
On the other Hand its now written in that if a unit splits, than both parts keep the judgement tokens, which should also apply to characters splitting off of a dead Bodyguard unit. Bit i would habe to double check the core rule wording to know for sure.
Can’t wait for y’all to do GSC!!
3:00 I've been debating this with my friend who plays Votann.
I understand that if a unit leaves the table (into reserves or whatever) then it keeps its judgement tokens and if a unit is brought back from the dead it loses its tokens.
But when an attached unit splits into new seperate units it neither leaves the battlefield nor dies so can anyone clarify what the ruling is here?
According to the designer's notes about JTs: "If a unit with Judgement tokens splits up into two or more smaller units, each of those units gains a number of Judgement tokens equal to that of the original unit."
My understanding is that both smaller units keep the same amount of tokens as the parent unit had before it split. So if a unit of 10 models had 2 JTs on it and then split into 2 units of 5 then both of those new units would have 2 JTs each.
Please do how to play GSC next!!
Care to share how you painted the turquoise color of the votann? Looks awesome
i dont wanna be negative, but when i hear something bout votann it just sound like "i dont wanna say they are bad"
Appraising Glare doesn't work as written.
if you split a unit of hearthkyn using a sagitaur can you put a kahl in each group of 5?
No its 1 group that splits so before spliting the unit. It can only have 1 leader
Starting an UM army and I’ve got the leviathan box coming, but I’m still so confused on where to go next. Haha
If you put the token on the character then does it affect the unit the character is in? And the character after the units died?
I'm building and painting Votann for my first army. What is your 2k point Votann dream team?
30 of the dudes we don't have...
My Hearthguard got 46 shots of the grenade launchers off onto a custodies unit, they took 1 damage 😢
Great video thanks
This army is definitely a very well rounded army.
They really are not tbh they're garbage at the moment
Next time you make a video make sure I approve it first
Why no inperial knights in this playlist?
This Army went from dominating to dominated real quick.
The game mechanics, points, rushed rules and lack of flavour have totally annihilated this army
Aprazing glare works untile end of THAT command fase. So nor shooting or fighting while its active :)
that is clearly a typo or the enchanment does absolutley nothing
@@michaelhammond1389 it do absolutly nothing
I think they should make it: "until the start of your next command phase". That would make it really good enhancement.
Because they made a typo
@@town9792 and yet, still no FAQu or errata to it
Just starting the get into 40k and was really excited about these guys from the lore but the army itself seems meh from a mechanical standpoint. May have to rethink
EDIT: NM FAQ cleared it up today If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a weapon’s Damage is reduced below 1 (it isn’t), whether abilities stack when duplicated (nope, pick one), or exactly which units can see into and out of ruins (with pictures!), we recommend giving this document a solid read.
They don’t
@@davealbright3133 Ok i know what you are thinking...but here me out. Its +1 to hit. If they stack its +2. If someone has -1 to hit on that same unit you are trying to blast with the two tokens technically you are still at +1 and dont break the "no more than +1 modification rule"
@@davealbright3133 welp never mind new FAQ out today lol "If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a weapon’s Damage is reduced below 1 (it isn’t), whether abilities stack when duplicated (nope, pick one), or exactly which units can see into and out of ruins (with pictures!), we recommend giving this document a solid read."
The game of Warhammer has never in my memory allowed you to reduce damage below 1. The fact that people thought you could do that is infuriating to me.
I built the votann for 10th cus 5hey were the only faction I thought I liked the look of most, and then found out they were good after getting bit over 2k of 9th edition points, and I can't wait to eviscerat units with the hearthguard
Don't overwach work under 12', and brokhyr spetial weapon extra work over 12'? Than it will also never work
Nope:
TARGET: One unit from your army that is within 24" of
that enemy unit and that would be eligible to shoot if
it were your Shooting phase.
EFFECT: Your unit can shoot that enemy unit as if it
were your Shooting phase.
RESTRICTIONS: Until the end of the phase, each
time a model in your unit makes a ranged attack,
an unmodified Hit roll of 6 is required to score a hit,
irrespective of the attacking weapon’s Ballistic Skill
or any modifiers. You can only use this Stratagem
once per turn.
It's a good thing overwatch is 24" then...
How to play League of Votann? 3x10 Hearthguard and bunch of staff to sacrifice for tokens. Votann were gutted to the point theres only one legit outstanding unit. So again 3x10 Hearthguard with Kahl/Einhyr(sucks) and rest is something to sacrifice.
How to play Guard? 👀👀👀
Hi, first time commenter and watcher here, will be my last time watching, but wanted to share feedback.
Between the sponsors in the middle of chatting, the adverts for your own stuff, and google adverts. It was an extremely frustrating watch. That made this cintent twoce as long as it could have been.
Throw in the general.... lack of confidence in what you are talking about?
I watched to the end but i genuinely think you had a different set of rules to what came out. Or read everything exceedingly differently.
But gl, hf and enjoy 10th!
too many adds..now in combination with youtube adds....even worse . Big L
I just have to ask, the real elephant in the room isn't the land fortress... But that the specific league mechanics has been erased... Now it's just a matter of color and they didn't deserve it, will it be possible to have them back?
This killed a lot of excitement for me with chaos space marines I imagine they will have generalized detachments which kind of approximate the sub faction rules but not completely
Better than Death Guard, for sure. This is not bad. What, 3 of 5? If DG a 1 and Sisters are 4?
Art of War said they are between the bottom 5 armies but above Death Guard... i play both of them lol
2.5 of 5
Guys youve painted all these really nice models: could you at least have put the camera ON the models? You have over half the video talking about the units but NOT showing them to us! Massive missed opportunity, video much duller as a result
Don’t buy any Votann models until the codex is released in 2024-25. 🤞the codex makes us good
Need a how to play Necron for 10th edition before I start exterminatus-ing my bank account
step one, put all your Votann in a bag, step two, throw them in the garbage
Love the positivity here. The army looks decent. Some things like Uthar and Magnal rails on 5+ is really annoying, but with the point drop the army looks quite solid
True. Not many options for units but you can have a ton of units because of their cost
I dont think thats how blast works lol
These ads are obnoxious
Is this still relevant or out of date ?
Out of date, they changed the votann quite a bit I think
so much rule misinterpretation + so silent, when the advirtisment kicked it it blew my ears away dafuq
betyter than DG and Ad Mech .. still shockingly bad. Army will get some good boosts in future .. please
🤞I really hope so
GW have killed the faction, they clown theyve got writing a book for them will make sure of it.
Army has roughly a 25% win rate in tournies now. Totally destroyed viability in 10th
Copium is strong in these 2…