Whenever I see someone ask for recommendations to get into superhero comics people always say “Watchmen!” Which is the worst idea ever. There’s no way to apprehend layered satire of Watchmen without first knowing the stuff they’re satirizing. You can’t get the joke if you don’t understand the premise.
When I first read the Death of Superman, all I could think was “man, this is lazy writing”. You clearly see they only wanted to kill Superman for shocking purposes. They didn’t have a plan. “Let’s put a Hulk knock off suddenly appearing on Earth, no explanation whatsoever and let him beat everyone and just kill Superman”. Few comic book characters deaths were made right. Gwen Stacy, Jean Grey (the fist time) and Captain Marvel were exceptions. I consider Gwen’s death to be the most shocking and the definitive turning point in comic book history. That was the end of comics innocence. Knightfall and the Clone saga suffered from the same: it dragged too long and by that time writers didn’t know what to do with it anymore.
My favorite thing about Doomsday Clock is that when the mini was about to start, a random anon at 4Chan's comics & cartoons imageboard made a joke about how the plot was going to end with superman given a stern lecture to doc manhattan about how things matter and manhattan would be "omg ur rite" and then everything would be OK. And years later that's exactly what happened.
Fun video! The Death of Superman is an event that I talk about a lot also. It's one thing to read the TPB, and another to have experienced the event and bought the issues off the shelves. You miss so much of the hype and collective experience when you read a reprint. I'm not saying that one is better than the other. At all. I think it is better experienced in TPB format. I shook my head when I heard about the event when it happened. I shook my head as I laid down my lunch money to buy the bagged death issue. I was shocked by just how bad the contents of the gimmick were. And I loved it! I am a sucker for gimmicks and to see one done terribly at every step was a train wreck that I just couldn't look away from. I review the contents of the bagged comic in a video of mine and even though I don't tend to talk negatively about comics on my channel, that was one I enjoyed reveling in its awfulness. It's the lowest of the low and there's a special place in my heart for it. Keep rockin' it!
Knightfall 1 is one of my fave comics of all time and I STRUGGLE reading older stuff. So I disagree with that, I think the movie heavily butchers all build up. however you're allowed opinions and you're engaging so keep it up
This channel needs to blow up. I actually disagreed with a lot of these takes, especially Doomsday Clock. But you were so engaging I kept watching anyway and enjoyed the video quite a lot.
I really appreciate that! The Doomsday Clock opinion has proven controversial in the comments haha but disagreeing on stuff like this is the fun of being a comic fan I think
Cerebus is worth reading through Jaka’s Story. It goes downhill after that. Maybe worth looking at as an historical document, but it gets really boring.
jason aaron's incredible hulk run and donny cates hulk run come to mind immediately when i think of worst runs. the ideas they introduced dont go anywhere, are really dumb and arguably out of character, and both are tonal nightmares. both were also awkwardly cut short and end abruptly with no real resolution to their set ups
@@spdepew well with the way immortal ended I certainly don't envy anyone who has to write "the merciful hulk" but they could've done better than a complete 180° turn. The current run has been very good tho
Doomsday clock is a Superman story with the watchman universe involved. I actually didn’t like the story at first but I fell in love with the story after reading the trade. I was buying the comics off the stands. It’s a better story if you look at it as a Superman story.
So as someone who loves Knightfall and have reccomended it to many different people, I genuinely don't understand your reasoning as to why not to reccomend it. As in I literally dont understand what the argument for it was, something about the art being very 90's or? Not trying to be rude, I genuinely wanna know but didn't understand.
Death and Return of Superman Omnibus is a favorite of mine. Love the over the top 90s goodness. The death part was probably the weakest. Everything after was awesome. My only complaint is I was hoping for some more emotional impact from the Jonathan, Martha and Clark reunion but didn't feel like a big enough moment. I became interested in Moon Knight from TV show and was planning on starting from the beginning but I may have to check out Lemire's run after this video.
I went into Knightfall thinking i wouldn't like it really much and i would probably get bored. I loved every single moment of it (i'm talking all the 3 omnibus) except for one really minor scene. It's probably in my top 5 Batman and i read A LOT of things. Maybe not the first to read but it's a masterpiece for how well all those authors came together with a great planification and they created something really well written and masterfully structured. I like the art but i guess that's subjective, the only way i could love it more is if they let Kelley Jones do the art for the chapters and not only for the covers, he's one of my absolute favourite artists on Batman.
Hey 👋🏻 I think your video was very well produced, and you are clearly very educated on comics! I understand we need to cut through the noise on TH-cam to get clicks. We also exist in a world where hate and negativity attracts clicks so it can be a tough tight rope to walk. That being said I think the title of the video could be better aligned in to a more positive approach. Is it comics you recommend people don’t read? Comics you recommend new readers to not read? Or comics you actually like that people have said are bad?
Thanks for the thoughts! The video actually answers your questions. I use titles to get clicks, just like you said, and sometimes “negativity” is the best way to do that on an otherwise extremely positive channel
@@peterdaremediaI should apologize dude! I love comics and the tidal wave of negativity and hate some TH-camrs choose to go with is something that makes me sad. I saw several of your video titles and thumbnails and wrongly assumed you were one of those channels. After watching several of your videos I see that I was wrong and you are in fact a positive comics channel. I’m sorry!
@@peterdaremediadon’t worry about him. He only makes click bait titles and doesn’t go into depth about anything like you are. Hes the “top 10 of the most popular superheroes books!” Video guy. Very little substance and also tries to white knight every situation for whatever reason
For me it was Gaiman's Sandman. Worst comic I have ever read, and I've read a lot. I know a lot of people worship it, to each your own. But for me it was HORRIBLE. Now, the premise I will admit was genius. One of the best ideas for a comic book story I have come across but the execution was just so bad. I forced myself to make it through the first trade (because it's so famous) but just managing to make it through that trade was like feeling razor blades being scraped down your spinal cord. Luckily I was already into comics when I read it so I didn't generalize and assume all comics were like that. But a lot of people tout it as the "best comic ever written". I wonder how many people have been turned off of the entire genre of storytelling because that was the first comic they were recommended to read?
So, I think Death of Superman is still okay, mainly because I love the larger post-Bryne years, Triangle era and Exile, Eradicator before that. I will take it only because I love the larger run. But holy sh*t, Doomsday Clock is outright a bad book. And Three Jokers is even worse. Thank god Johns left DC before he decided to write something related to Top 10 or Promethea.
So you would rather spend your time on One More Day than Knightfall or The Death and Return of Superman?! Wow, bold. Also, I feel there was some disingenuousness with those two storylines in particular because you said not that you shouldn't read them but don't start with them. If that's the case, maybe a different video title would have helped your case.
Ffs. Don't be a Rob. Please don't be a Liefeld. Come and test me on obscure shit. Just chat, others (who know) will just appreciate having a knowledgeable to chat with.
I'm not a fan of stories being written for the omnibus editions, especially when the stories aren't particularly interesting and are terribly slow-paced.
Shitting on Cerebus is like shitting on The New York Dolls. If you were there, you get it. Saying it is one of the worst written comics..... Well. I respect your taste, but I question our choice to call it one of the WORST.
I laughed my ass off the first time I read Cerebus: High Society. I recommend it. I don't recommend it to first time readers. It does get very misogynistic.
"Doomsday Clock" sucks and doesn't deserve to be read because it's DC deliberately sticking it to a creator. This is their way to make sure that the characters will *never* belong to Moore even though they were promised to him. It's absolute bullplop and I won't waste my time even considering to read it! Before you said them, I already knew the 2 Spider-Man stories that you were gonna mention. As an avid reader of Wizard Magazine, I knew to stay far away from those stories specifically!
I have to disagree with you about Cerebus. Sure, Dave Sims is legitmately nuts with jerk opinions, but he produced some amazing work. Volumes 2 through 5 are some of the greatest comics created. And yes it gets very self-indulgent towards the end of the series, but up until issue 200, it is amazing and well worth a read.
Bone is nothing at all like Cerebus. Not the tiniest bit. I mean, sure, they are both about illustrated characters with general bilateral symmetry. but nothing beyond that. Bone was great. Sim did not go off the deep end until after Jaka's Story. Sadly, in our era of omniscient ignorance, good work is damned by association with flawed creators. Cerebus in the last 3 or 4 volumes was almost imporssible to read. Especially with Sim's revelations of THE TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE - THE ONE TRUE RELIGION! by Dave Sim. Yes, he claimed to reconcile all religions into the one true religion that only he ahd the insight to figure out. Also his misogynist screeds against every-single-woman-he-ever-met was sickening and infuriating. You had to be really very extremely dedicated to struggle to the end of Cerebus. Save yourself and skip ahead to High Society and stop after Jaka's Story.
bro that moon knight book WASNT AS BAD TO MAKE IT THE THUMBNAIL?? 😭😭 SHOULD HAVE PICKED MARVEL ZOMBIES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT REALLY STUPID STUFF THEY SOMETIMES DO imo
I know it’s new and low hanging fruit right now, but damn the new Zeb Wells Spider-Man run just has nooooo substance in my opinion
Totally agree, I don’t think that one will age well at all
Wrong
@@snoopy4749Wrong? So do you like that Spider-Man is a cock child adult seriously dude they ruin Spider-Man in every possible way
Whenever I see someone ask for recommendations to get into superhero comics people always say “Watchmen!” Which is the worst idea ever. There’s no way to apprehend layered satire of Watchmen without first knowing the stuff they’re satirizing. You can’t get the joke if you don’t understand the premise.
That’s a really good point, I haven’t really considered that before
When I first read the Death of Superman, all I could think was “man, this is lazy writing”. You clearly see they only wanted to kill Superman for shocking purposes. They didn’t have a plan. “Let’s put a Hulk knock off suddenly appearing on Earth, no explanation whatsoever and let him beat everyone and just kill Superman”. Few comic book characters deaths were made right. Gwen Stacy, Jean Grey (the fist time) and Captain Marvel were exceptions. I consider Gwen’s death to be the most shocking and the definitive turning point in comic book history. That was the end of comics innocence. Knightfall and the Clone saga suffered from the same: it dragged too long and by that time writers didn’t know what to do with it anymore.
My favorite thing about Doomsday Clock is that when the mini was about to start, a random anon at 4Chan's comics & cartoons imageboard made a joke about how the plot was going to end with superman given a stern lecture to doc manhattan about how things matter and manhattan would be "omg ur rite" and then everything would be OK. And years later that's exactly what happened.
Fun video! The Death of Superman is an event that I talk about a lot also. It's one thing to read the TPB, and another to have experienced the event and bought the issues off the shelves. You miss so much of the hype and collective experience when you read a reprint. I'm not saying that one is better than the other. At all. I think it is better experienced in TPB format. I shook my head when I heard about the event when it happened. I shook my head as I laid down my lunch money to buy the bagged death issue. I was shocked by just how bad the contents of the gimmick were. And I loved it! I am a sucker for gimmicks and to see one done terribly at every step was a train wreck that I just couldn't look away from. I review the contents of the bagged comic in a video of mine and even though I don't tend to talk negatively about comics on my channel, that was one I enjoyed reveling in its awfulness. It's the lowest of the low and there's a special place in my heart for it. Keep rockin' it!
Knightfall 1 is one of my fave comics of all time and I STRUGGLE reading older stuff. So I disagree with that, I think the movie heavily butchers all build up. however you're allowed opinions and you're engaging so keep it up
This channel needs to blow up. I actually disagreed with a lot of these takes, especially Doomsday Clock. But you were so engaging I kept watching anyway and enjoyed the video quite a lot.
I really appreciate that! The Doomsday Clock opinion has proven controversial in the comments haha but disagreeing on stuff like this is the fun of being a comic fan I think
Cerebus is worth reading through Jaka’s Story. It goes downhill after that. Maybe worth looking at as an historical document, but it gets really boring.
My favorite Batman story, my favorite superman story, and my favorite DC event
jason aaron's incredible hulk run and donny cates hulk run come to mind immediately when i think of worst runs. the ideas they introduced dont go anywhere, are really dumb and arguably out of character, and both are tonal nightmares. both were also awkwardly cut short and end abruptly with no real resolution to their set ups
Donny Cates Hulk run was such a huge let down. It also made no sense. They had no clue what to do after Immortal.
@@spdepew well with the way immortal ended I certainly don't envy anyone who has to write "the merciful hulk" but they could've done better than a complete 180° turn. The current run has been very good tho
Well that’s just your opinion man…
And it’s wrong
@@spdepewand you did?
@@snoopy4749 he left half way through it. He clearly had no idea what to do with the hulk.
sick production quality bro, can't wait for you to blow up!
I appreciate that!
Doomsday clock is a Superman story with the watchman universe involved. I actually didn’t like the story at first but I fell in love with the story after reading the trade. I was buying the comics off the stands. It’s a better story if you look at it as a Superman story.
So as someone who loves Knightfall and have reccomended it to many different people, I genuinely don't understand your reasoning as to why not to reccomend it. As in I literally dont understand what the argument for it was, something about the art being very 90's or? Not trying to be rude, I genuinely wanna know but didn't understand.
Death and Return of Superman Omnibus is a favorite of mine. Love the over the top 90s goodness. The death part was probably the weakest. Everything after was awesome. My only complaint is I was hoping for some more emotional impact from the Jonathan, Martha and Clark reunion but didn't feel like a big enough moment.
I became interested in Moon Knight from TV show and was planning on starting from the beginning but I may have to check out Lemire's run after this video.
If you liked the Moon Knight show, you will LOVE the Jeff Lemire run
Sometimes noncreatives saying "no" is the best thing for a property. Look at Wonder Woman from 2017 then Wonder Woman 1984...
Dude I think the charlie huston, David finch run on moonknight is probably the best run...
I went into Knightfall thinking i wouldn't like it really much and i would probably get bored.
I loved every single moment of it (i'm talking all the 3 omnibus) except for one really minor scene.
It's probably in my top 5 Batman and i read A LOT of things.
Maybe not the first to read but it's a masterpiece for how well all those authors came together with a great planification and they created something really well written and masterfully structured.
I like the art but i guess that's subjective, the only way i could love it more is if they let Kelley Jones do the art for the chapters and not only for the covers, he's one of my absolute favourite artists on Batman.
Hey 👋🏻 I think your video was very well produced, and you are clearly very educated on comics!
I understand we need to cut through the noise on TH-cam to get clicks.
We also exist in a world where hate and negativity attracts clicks so it can be a tough tight rope to walk.
That being said I think the title of the video could be better aligned in to a more positive approach.
Is it comics you recommend people don’t read? Comics you recommend new readers to not read? Or comics you actually like that people have said are bad?
Thanks for the thoughts! The video actually answers your questions. I use titles to get clicks, just like you said, and sometimes “negativity” is the best way to do that on an otherwise extremely positive channel
@@peterdaremediaI should apologize dude! I love comics and the tidal wave of negativity and hate some TH-camrs choose to go with is something that makes me sad. I saw several of your video titles and thumbnails and wrongly assumed you were one of those channels. After watching several of your videos I see that I was wrong and you are in fact a positive comics channel. I’m sorry!
@@peterdaremediadon’t worry about him. He only makes click bait titles and doesn’t go into depth about anything like you are. Hes the “top 10 of the most popular superheroes books!” Video guy. Very little substance and also tries to white knight every situation for whatever reason
For me you are the greatest comic TH-camr
Awesome video! I'd be curious to hear what you consider to be the worst comics of all time, as a follow up to this
For me it was Gaiman's Sandman. Worst comic I have ever read, and I've read a lot. I know a lot of people worship it, to each your own. But for me it was HORRIBLE. Now, the premise I will admit was genius. One of the best ideas for a comic book story I have come across but the execution was just so bad. I forced myself to make it through the first trade (because it's so famous) but just managing to make it through that trade was like feeling razor blades being scraped down your spinal cord. Luckily I was already into comics when I read it so I didn't generalize and assume all comics were like that. But a lot of people tout it as the "best comic ever written". I wonder how many people have been turned off of the entire genre of storytelling because that was the first comic they were recommended to read?
So, I think Death of Superman is still okay, mainly because I love the larger post-Bryne years, Triangle era and Exile, Eradicator before that. I will take it only because I love the larger run. But holy sh*t, Doomsday Clock is outright a bad book. And Three Jokers is even worse. Thank god Johns left DC before he decided to write something related to Top 10 or Promethea.
Getting back into comics just found your channel. Favorite one by far!
So you would rather spend your time on One More Day than Knightfall or The Death and Return of Superman?! Wow, bold. Also, I feel there was some disingenuousness with those two storylines in particular because you said not that you shouldn't read them but don't start with them. If that's the case, maybe a different video title would have helped your case.
Im your 902 sub! 😊
Your Doomsday Clock review is bad and uneducated. I agree with the rest; they are not for beginners
fair enough
Moon Knight by Bemis. Kinda a stinker after the masterpiece Lemire wrote
Ffs. Don't be a Rob. Please don't be a Liefeld.
Come and test me on obscure shit.
Just chat, others (who know) will just appreciate having a knowledgeable to chat with.
to my understanding people like the first half of Knightfall but hate the second half of Knightfall
I'm not a fan of stories being written for the omnibus editions, especially when the stories aren't particularly interesting and are terribly slow-paced.
Shitting on Cerebus is like shitting on The New York Dolls. If you were there, you get it. Saying it is one of the worst written comics..... Well. I respect your taste, but I question our choice to call it one of the WORST.
That's a hilariously bad comparison. I was there for the New York Dolls and they sucked. Still do. So does Cerberus.
@@RythymBeast OK.
I laughed my ass off the first time I read Cerebus: High Society. I recommend it. I don't recommend it to first time readers. It does get very misogynistic.
"Doomsday Clock" sucks and doesn't deserve to be read because it's DC deliberately sticking it to a creator. This is their way to make sure that the characters will *never* belong to Moore even though they were promised to him. It's absolute bullplop and I won't waste my time even considering to read it!
Before you said them, I already knew the 2 Spider-Man stories that you were gonna mention. As an avid reader of Wizard Magazine, I knew to stay far away from those stories specifically!
Man this is a dope video idea
thanks!
I have to disagree with you about Cerebus. Sure, Dave Sims is legitmately nuts with jerk opinions, but he produced some amazing work. Volumes 2 through 5 are some of the greatest comics created. And yes it gets very self-indulgent towards the end of the series, but up until issue 200, it is amazing and well worth a read.
You are bay. Death of superman is great. ❤
This video should be called one of the best book that came way before woke at least.
What?
@@peterdaremediathe death of Superman is an awesome book that is what I'm saying .
Idiotic comment
I know an indy that the art is a little child like but the story is good It is Unicorn Knights of Monokeros it is on kindle.
Bone is nothing at all like Cerebus. Not the tiniest bit. I mean, sure, they are both about illustrated characters with general bilateral symmetry. but nothing beyond that. Bone was great.
Sim did not go off the deep end until after Jaka's Story. Sadly, in our era of omniscient ignorance, good work is damned by association with flawed creators.
Cerebus in the last 3 or 4 volumes was almost imporssible to read. Especially with Sim's revelations of THE TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE - THE ONE TRUE RELIGION! by Dave Sim. Yes, he claimed to reconcile all religions into the one true religion that only he ahd the insight to figure out.
Also his misogynist screeds against every-single-woman-he-ever-met was sickening and infuriating.
You had to be really very extremely dedicated to struggle to the end of Cerebus. Save yourself and skip ahead to High Society and stop after Jaka's Story.
The fist knightfall Batman book is awesome babes story is nothing sort of greatness
For me Civil War 2, Adam Strange by TK, Ann Nocenti DD, anything Jason Aaron’s done in Marvel,
Calling Nocenti's run bad is one of the most insane comic takes I've ever seen.
@@EcopiuMyeah just not of Nocenti
didnt know about neil gaiman... damn that sucks
The allegations against Gaiman are a joke. Laughable really.
Read Knightfall 2 before you review it lol. Dune 1 was mid but 2 made both of them worth it.
batman year 2
like & sub earned!
Thanks!!
Love this 😂
If I want to read an amazing death of Superman book, I read, Miracleman #15 because death of Superman sucks!
bro that moon knight book WASNT AS BAD TO MAKE IT THE THUMBNAIL?? 😭😭 SHOULD HAVE PICKED MARVEL ZOMBIES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT REALLY STUPID STUFF THEY SOMETIMES DO imo
I think Marvel Zombies is cool tho hahaha
@@peterdaremedia i think the concept is great ,to each their own great video btw
Thanks!