@@hiruyabebaw807 he literally opens saying he didn't thought Destiny was a socialist. THEY DEBATED OVER THE 3 CLIPS HE POSTED INTO HIS SHITPOST CHANNEL THAT IMPLIED DESTINY WAS A COMMIE FFS LOL. Like I know socialists and communists are two very different things, but Sargon either don't know or don't care let's be real here lol
@@joaovitorreisdasilva9573 To these people, anyone left of Hayek is a commie traitor. Rather ironic because these are the same people who bemoan the fact that the other side is always accusing them of being literal fascists and white supremacists.
Arc ongoing. This is a textbook example of liberals capitulating with fascism when threatened by the left. Destiny let so much slide here that he wouldn't have before. Sargon is as twittish as he ever was.
@Chocobot101 trueee we need more wannabe sky news pundits with little baby chins like sargon bc historically uneducated overfed aristocrats are the the vanguard of rationality!
@Chocobot101 not sure how that in any way disputes my description of his very run of the mill routine wherein he pretends to be rational centrist meanwhile his content consist entirely of seething disregard for anything to the left of the tories. Funny that he chose to do a crowder and "debate" random people on the street and you think that's somehow a true road test of his ideas. Was this after his debate with vaush where he had his life's work thoroughly dismantled by someone half his age? if so thats funnier still.
@Chocobot101 yea i feel like he came with two main arguments on immigration that were classic cancervative pedantry, they were quickly dismantled and yet he just decided to repeat them over and over and pretend to laugh when he had nothing else. I'd say vaush is good because he can unlike most people succinctly back up his ideas on the fly and has basically never lost an argument let alone a debate. There are others on his level of sociological and historical understanding but he both opens his stream up to chuds and directly goes after weasels like baby chin pool, louder coward and ben shapino all the while addressing the essential grift at the heart of counter-revolutionary pedantry.
@Chocobot101 you'll have to link me that or namecheck it I'm not seeing it. As far as i can tell people like Sargon and the various alt-right guys rely on the idea that immigration hurts the working class but won't accept the answer that you can just mitigate this with the most tepid of socialist policies. I mean sure theres a bunch of issues with changing demographics but the positives surely outweight them and it's really just an inevitable thing at this point. Its also just laughable that people like sargon give a single fuck about the working class anyway given their hysterical opposition to the left, Corbyn, Sanders and really any mention of a more equitable capitalism.
Sargon: It's clear that socialism appeals because people like simplistic, very generalized views of things Sargon: No, see, all the problems with the NHS, that's all because of mass immigration
Gheleon the Driven you’re missing the point. You have the same exact thought process that idiot Sargon has. Black people don’t get married often because of socioeconomic and racial issues that still exist in America that lead to them unable to have a stable family. This is putting the horse before the wagon. Black people don’t have issues because they aren’t married, that doesn’t make any logical sense, they aren’t married because of the issues still existed in the country. The only way your thought process would work is to admit that black people some how have some weird gene that lead them to create a culture that doesn’t let them married which just doesn’t make sense biologically.
@@gheleonthedriven649 It's also about the generational wealth gap that was also perpetrated by the white community as well as being only a few decades since the lifting of laws that were dedicated to segregating blacks from the whites. But yes, personal responsibility is the biggerest problem that will solve all black issues pog
@@gheleonthedriven649 Do you think people will be more or less inclined to get married when they have very poor socioeconomic prospects? Not making the "responsible" choices isn't the cause. It's a symptom of a deeper problem.
“Cuomo never sent sick people to nursing homes, that never happened.” That didn’t age well, maybe consider what else could currently be presented as fact or science and be potentially false.
@@TrueGamer22887 I predict that Steve will do this for a bit and eventually he'll reach a breaking point and decide to replay 2016 again. He's probably more beneficial for the world pulling dumbfuck kids away from the alt right than he is debating the left.
A for Carrot opposed to larpy socialists who end up getting Trump re-elected because they’re too lazy to vote. Destiny is a socdem, he’s part of the left.
Ed Sullivan so his criticism is that the far right people are lying about not being far right when they very clearly are. Destiny still believes is larger redistribution of wealth, a form of universal healthcare. He supports Biden adamantly and has made his hate of trump exceedingly clear. He pro trans rights and pro lgtbt rights so tell me again how he’s secretly some far right bigot.
It’s an honest discussion with genuine points of views. I don’t understand why you think someone believing in ‘pulling by your bootstraps’ and critiques about issues with the NHS is something to be looked down upon.
@@divusartemis2045 I'm not dale but there's a couple of consistent errors I see people make that have crept into your viewpoint here. The first is that conservatives don't want anyone in trouble to be helped. Generally the refinement here is that conservatives find it morally repugnant to FORCE aid (ie. through government) rather than participating willfully in community service, charity, etc... Statistically conservatives have been more likely to give to charity for that matter. Conflating conservatism with Christianity isn't a correct assumption, but even if it were Christianity doesn't generally advocate for government action beyond restraining evildoers/justice, etc... it advocates for personal and church action. On a practical level there's also a fear of enabling. The more local a support/service organization is the more likely they are able to wisely distribute funds, etc... tying people into their community rather than making them beholden to a faceless government they feel no obligation to. There's certainly arguments that can be made for and against this kind of opinion but saying "the government should give everyone healthcare" doesn't give someone the moral high-ground.
@@divusartemis2045 A lot was said but the specific thing that interested me the most were your comments about police/fire. Perhaps ultraconservatives would be against that but I think most conservatives do have a concept of a public good that is not identical to government charity. Additionally police and fire are typically more local than centralized, and the more local a government body is the more answerable it is to its constituents (theoretically) obviously then you can get into the SBI and FBI etc... but this was meant to illustrate a general theme.
@@divusartemis2045 As the argument goes the state has clearly defined roles at its most basic level, IE in a state of nature people have perfect freedom but limited security so governments are instituted to secure rights with a minimum of interference in those rights. Thus judicial functions and protection of its citizens is a governments highest and rightful obligation, but charitable functions like a social safety net, welfare, medicare for all, etc... are suspect. That's exposition based on a lockean view, I'm not as familiar with a conservative version of the hobbesian view. Then of course you get into the actual practical arguments about whether government is the best tool for some things. What's the cost of giving the government the power to do a good thing, etc... mingled with the fact that all politicians and philosophers are human, so the best rationale doesn't mean the results will be great lol. No real question here, just meandering in my thoughts. Thanks for your time haha!
Destiny: our infant mortality rate in the US is abysmal, sub-saharan Africa levels Easily Googled, infant mortality per 100,000 births: Sweden: 2 Germany: 2 UK: 4 Canada: 4 United States: 6 Uganda: 33 Ghana: 34
He's greatly exagerated but the US have a worrying number of states (and ethnicities) with pretty high levels of mortality rates for a first world nation, from what I can find some states are around at the same levels as third world nations, the average nationwide was closer to chile in 2019 than to slovak republic, neither of which are good, and the worst in the country were closer to turkey than even chile. That's far from sub saharan africa levels, it's also abysmally high for a first world nation.
Sargon: I don't want to ruin society for my kids to protect old people who won't be around much longer anyway Brexit, the 8 ton elephant in the room: *sits*
Britain left because they were the second highest contributor to the EU, second only to germany, but the EU still treated britain like shit. Britain wanted to be sovereign again, and didn't want to pay the millions upon millions of support money that clearly wasn't doing anything *for the british people* Thus they left
@@CorwinTheOneAndOnly Yeahhhh things are going a bit shit in the UK since Brexit: Mass loss of workers in services and transportation, financial institutions moved £150Bn in capital and assets to the EU and we're currently facing shortages of goods AS WELL AS facing reduced exports to the EU continent. Brexit was a bad move on all fronts
That rude man says that Korea is autocratic. What we did was much more democratic than most Western countries forced lockdown! Yes, Korea is a country that has embraced democracy late, but for that reason, it's stupid to ignore the democratic traditions we have made and kept! According to the man's standards, a country that has not been democratic for about 200 years can't be an example of solving the problem democratically? And how would you explain New Zealand? I'm so disappointed that this streamer didn't properly ask about that part.
It's all Fox News taking points. To defend Trump's lack of response to covid, you kinda have to argue that being proactive or doing anything more than he did would have been overly totalitarian like China.
@@scenopiachannel That's right. We did smartphone contact tracing which was a undemocratic measure and violates personal freedom. However, if we didn't, we would have violated our individual liberties even more. We predicted that if we didn't do that, a lockdown like the one in Wuhan would be inevitable nationally We did less undemocratic measures to avoid bigger undemocratic measures. Was the action most Western countries did more democratic than we did? We avoided Draconian lockdown by doing contact tracing. Oh please. Don't boil the word that Western countries, especially countries like the United States, do not compromise on privacy or democracy in any case. Even Koreans living in distant East Asia can google the Patriot Act.
Actually better question. How many times will Sargon in this conversation come to a conclusion first, then when Destiny asks him to clarify how he came to that conclusion he presents reasoning that actually undermines his conclusion and then pretends that it doesn't?
As far as the virus name discussion: Even Corona beer came out after losing money and said they would pay a large sum of money to start calling it the Bud Light Virus. Even the stigma of sharing a name with a beer hurt its market share.
I believe this is implied in calling it the "Chinese Virus". People like to pretend (in bad faith) like it's a criticism on Chinese nationality/race, when it's directly a criticism of CCP's mishandling and ultimately unleashing the pandemic.
sargon strategically waits for destiny to get into an anti-leftist mood to talk to him so destiny wouldnt be as aggressive in calling out his crap lol really glad destiny shouted out potholer54... he's one of the best guys on youtube, though his content has slowed down sadly
Hey thanks! I didn't see the full debate but I just checked out potholder thanks to you, he really has great videos! I much prefer he takes his time rather than spewing out stuff. Cheers :)
Honestly, he and the rest of the righties who're trying to feed off of him right now are treating him like a potential asset because they're tone-deaf.
@@adamyooz Yeah lmao, Destiny tends to hyperfocus to his detriment a lot of the time, his problem is literally dead opposite to what Sargon does. Especially since sometimes the thing he'll hyperfocus can be really stupid.
Sargon thinking that in science, going from “there’s no evidence of this, more research needed”, to “we now found evidence of this...” is a 180 degree flip, shows that he *really* doesn’t understand the scientific method.
No he was talking about how if you tell someone there is no evidence of something they will believe that the said thing is untrue. Surely you understand this? So when the WHO says that there is no evidence of human to human transmission, it causes people to believe human to human transmission isn't a thing for covid. This is why they should have accompanied the statement with something like, " but other strains of coronavirus have consistently shown human to human transmission, so it's better to be safe and keep a distance to other people."
Small TrashMan I agree they could have made it a little more clear. They underestimate how dumb the average person is, given after reading “more testing is needed” they still didn’t understand. Incredible.
@@TopSpeedKertus Exactly. I wouldn't necessarily call someone dumb simply for that though. I mean think about it, if you're going about your business and you hear that there's a new virus, but there's no evidence of human to human transmission, why would you change your whole way of life off of what seems like an extremely minor threat? In hindsight we could say that you should but they don't have that luxury.
As I understand it WHO is responsible to inform governments and not their populations directly. I'd say it's the fault of local media to not correcting misunderstandings. Imo WHO needs to be able to communicate in well defined and concise language assuming competence on behalf of the reader.
@@_Kiren_ That is somewhat true but what I said also applies to world leaders. Why risk looking like a lunatic when the threat seems extremely minor? Imagine how delusional trump would seem if he locked down the whole country and then there was no human to human transmission and it wasn't an issue. He would look like a raving madman.
I'm only 9 minutes in, but I'm seeing Destiny already fall into the trap of thinking all police departments are a monolith. 1. People are always saying "improve training improve training" but it's like how? improve which training? New York City has one of the most advanced police departments in the entire world, and the requirements for joining are extremely rigorous. A police department in rural Wisconsin does not need nearly the same level of rigor. 2. Destiny is commenting on how some police departments have tanks. Yeah, some police departments have a lot of funding and get leftover military gear. But there are police departments that literally can't afford proper tasers (I heard this in a donut operator video), let alone an entire system for body cameras. Obviously, I will never say it's wrong to make policing way more efficient. But I feel like people are making these arguments thinking that police departments are a monolith, and without ever having listened to or spoken to a police officer about it. About Trump's response to the coronavirus. I'm certain there were plenty of things that Trump should have done before the number of cases exploded, but I agree with Carl that really nobody took it seriously until it started to explode. And when it did, Trump was really on top of communicating with the public and listening to his epidemic response team. But we also have to remember that the US is a federal republic, and states have the power to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves from the virus. IQ is extremely powerful in predicting one's success in life. And it's a really powerful way of explaining why there are some racial disparities that remain true all over the globe. So we can steer away from this idea that "Everyone is capable of being rich and successful if they just try hard enough." No someone with an IQ of 85 is going to have an EXTREMELY hard time of being rich and successful. Now if you have an entire population that has an average IQ of 85, then you can see why that community may not be as successful as other groups with higher average IQs. Current research consistently suggests IQ is really easy to decrease, but is nearly impossible to significantly increase permanently. Using this knowledge can help you figure out better ways of helping these people achieve a decent life without the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" line. About China's immigration. Sure China is willing to let in lots of immigrants for work purposes, but it also is extremely hard to become a citizen and you will be deported so fast if you do bad shit. Kinda wish America had that too. If you add 700 million immigrants to make a billion citizens, you no longer live in America. America as a nation is now dead and has been obliterated. Good luck with whatever you have left but that's not a nation anymore. I think Destiny forgets that over half of the federal budget is spent on social programs, including social security, Medicaid, and Medicare. So it's not like your immediately fucked if you're poor or disabled. And last time I checked, the US has some of the best cancer survivor rates in the world. But of course, the system could be way way better. "Xenophobia is the dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries." Trump calling it the "China Virus" is not xenophobia by definition. He's saying "fuck you China the country" not "fuck you every Chinese person". Constantly calling it xenophobia is like those idiots who constantly call everything racist or transphobic. Obviously, it's not the best way to name a virus, it's more than anything just a jab at China. And interesting how Destiny says calling it the "Chinese virus" is wrong because Chinese is an ethnicity. Chinese is also a nationality? It's like if you called something the "Swedish flu" I don't believe a rational person immediately thinks "we are naming the virus after the people of Swedish ethnicity", no they would think this is a virus that comes from the country of Sweden.
"where are we getting this consistent data from?" "the cdc, literally their job" "where are they getting it from?" literally spending $6 billion on scientific research?
@Jason Simmons His valid point is that saying you spend X amount of dollars doesn't answer the question "where are they getting it (the data) from?" Does more money automatically make things more effective? There's already been the letter from thousands of CDC staff about considering racism a disease. There's clear deductive evidence they don't always adhere to science if their politics get in the way. Members of the CDC also tend to like their own jobs. So being fair about any data that would undermine that, they have a clear bias against.
@@sirellyn sure there's not a causitive link between money and the information they put out. However, empirically, data collection is relatively straightforward, the depth and scale are dependent on money at this kind of task. Also, it's really stupid to push this narrative that they have to inflate numbers to keep their jobs. The WHO wasn't created overnight. They'll still keep their job, and also the economic damage caused by covid could screw available WHO funds long term anyway.
On NY Coronavirus: Cuomo put nursing home patients back in the homes because he thought the large projections were going to overwhelm hospitals, hence why he tried to make space and there were so many unused temporary hospitals. However, he was so incredibly wrong due to susceptibility of this population. Some governors knew this and were smarter (De Santis). This is why now NY doesn’t have data on its nursing homes since it’s estimated 15-30% of deaths came from nursing homes and I doubt they want people to realize just how badly they messed up. Destiny is 100% wrong here, not sure where he’s getting his data from :/
As a Korean-American, it's great that South Korea gets so much props for their handling of Covid. However, Sargon's point on "liberty" is right. There is no culturlal importance set on the concept of privacy in Korea. They basically traded all privacy (contact tracing via location data, phone tracing, messaging, etc.) for safety (which they will probably never get back) Whether the trade is worth it is an interesting philosophical debate. But I just want people to know there is a trade.
@Eren Yeager Probably because Korea has had maybe 20 years tops where it wasn't ruled by either a king, a foreign empire, or a military dictatorship. It isn't exactly a culture that has had much liberty to care about.
There is no trade. Your privacy is meaningless; the government absolutely does not care what you're doing. This idea that there's some office somewhere where government people in suits are spying your every move and judging you is such an unbelievably stupid and so centrally american perspective of life that it's hard to take seriously -- and believe me, out of respect, I am trying. Your "privacy" was foregone the moment satellites became a thing, Damien. If the government wants to know where you are, they will, and they'll never need to ask for your permission. You'll never even know. Equally, and since I know a lot of pro-gun people tend to share this idea of "THE GUBMENT SEEIN ALL MA NUDES"; if the government wanted you dead, or wanted to control the population or subjugate them, I could always remind you that they have fighter jets, tanks, and thousands of trained soldiers. But honestly, they wouldn't need any of that since they have access to your water supplies and, should they be willing, you'd all be poisoned and killed within one week before any of you even knew what the fuck was going on. So, yeah, needless to say: I 100% side with South Korea. Fuck this silly concept of "privacy". Nobody gives a fuck where you are at all times and I'll gladly trade that information in, if it means that I'll be safer in the longrun.
@@SeruraRenge11 Americans have existed for 300 years. Most cities in my country are older than that. They're still struggling with concepts like what liberty actually means. This association of "the government has my data" with "freedoms", can only come from a country currently in its teenager years. You're literally treating your government like an edgy teen treats their parent, because you think they secretly hate you and don't understand you and want you dead. It's really funny. And listen: It's not like I don't conceptually understand. Spending so long being fed garbage about the rest of the world and how we're all a bunch of brainwashed savage commies will do that to ya.
@13:29, so he doesn't say the travel ban was xenophobic, but he does say the trump admin's actions were xenophobic in this clip. th-cam.com/video/aAdzW-mRKTk/w-d-xo.html. Not sure what he would be talking about other than the travel ban.
as a Brit it was crazy frustrating for me to watch Sargon massively misrepresent everything that's happening over here regarding covid, the Tories being "reasonable" over Brexit (they're literally trying to break international law at the moment), UKIP being "Churchillian" whatever that means (they've just turned into a bunch of anti-islam shitposters at this point) and so on. it's infuriating watching Sargon getting away with that kind of stuff in front of a predominantly American audience that isn't necessarily going to know better
As someone from the UK, sargon just lied about so many things and seemed to back it up with ''Well in the UK'' because Destiny can't refute it, such slimey behavior
@@nathangordon4891 One notable lie is when he makes out that immigrants and "healthcare tourism" are the one of the biggest cause of the NHS's patient overcapacity problems. This simply isn't true. They're incredibly insignificant compared to other policy issues, if you can even call it an issue when it's literally there to treat sick and injured people with no questions asked.
Wow sargon is a dishonest idiot. Who the hell takes this lying illiterate Buffon seriously? He's lost every debate he's ever had and is a fascist advocating for an ethnostate while masquerading as "a liberal" lmao. What a clown. Destiny also has the tendency to be a condescending smug idiot who thinks ad hominem attacks and just dismissing anyone who calls themselves socialist or communist offering no arguments and making himself look like a clown. Not a good look for him.
so this video is basically sargon thinking he's on good graces with destiny because they both dislike vaush but when he's more comfortable opening up destiny destroys his ego
@@gram8121 ...Or Carl's always had sympathy for people who get burnt like Destiny? That's more likely since he's commented on similar situations in the past. Don't mind read, jesus.
@@RequiemOfSolo Why do you go immediately to personal attacks? It's like you aren't even interested in making sure you're correct and instead religiously worship an ideology or idea. You think anyone who goes against that is automatically evil. It's actually pretty sad.
You Destiny fans are so fair weather its not even funny, get real. I am an OG Destiny antagonist, I've been every level of not particularly caring for Destiny to standing up out of my chair and having adrenaline rushes of hatred and frustration as he railed in using some rhetorical Cuban switchblade attack and I could only helplessly listen and debate furiously at the wall behind my computer screen. I've disliked Destiny since before Kraut lost his entire career to a Quebecois superpredator. I've steady been shadowboxing Destiny's arguments in my imagination for a decade-if-you-round-up. Some of you really are biting your fingernails that Destiny is visiting the witches and the warlocks and hes not going to vanquish them and cleanse the lands, oh my, what if they woo him into reciting an incantation? The spell will take hold, he'll cast it back on us, we'll all be cursed! IF I was a fan of Destiny, and I emphasize IF.... I was.... I would be smiting all these unfaithful, fairweather fans who seriously get frantic or frustrated with this, and its not just memeing for them... REAL Destiny fans are sitting back chilling, listening to some fresh approaches on content, hoping Destiny harvests a solid number of Sargonites to give him a chance and become a new source of information or perspective in their daily viewings. If you don't realize Destiny doesnt get 'wooed' by 'chatting' at this point... I recommend a look into his world-class internet drama portfolio.
@@odoibe3620 You Destiny fans are so fair weather its not even funny, get real. I am an OG Destiny antagonist, I've been every level of not particularly caring for Destiny to standing up out of my chair and having adrenaline rushes of hatred and frustration as he railed in using some rhetorical Cuban switchblade attack and I could only helplessly listen and debate furiously at the wall behind my computer screen. I've disliked Destiny since before Kraut lost his entire career to a Quebecois superpredator. I've steady been shadowboxing Destiny's arguments in my imagination for a decade-if-you-round-up. Some of you really are biting your fingernails that Destiny is visiting the witches and the warlocks and hes not going to vanquish them and cleanse the lands, oh my, what if they woo him into reciting an incantation? The spell will take hold, he'll cast it back on us, we'll all be cursed! IF I was a fan of Destiny, and I emphasize IF.... I was.... I would be smiting all these unfaithful, fairweather fans who seriously get frantic or frustrated with this, and its not just memeing for them... REAL Destiny fans are sitting back chilling, listening to some fresh approaches on content, hoping Destiny harvests a solid number of Sargonites to give him a chance and become a new source of information or perspective in their daily viewings. If you don't realize Destiny doesnt get 'wooed' by 'chatting' at this point... I recommend a look into his world-class internet drama portfolio.
This is actually the most reasonable way to engage with his content and actually shows his true value. He can argue his perspective in a way that even if you hate it and disagree with it, it is informative, insightful and challenges you. There is no handwaving his ideas because if you disagree, you have to really think on why. Regardless of how edgy he likes to get from time to time, he will always be a valuable mind with ideas you must consider and seek out for you own benefit.
LOL love that destiny just off-handedly throws out the same statistical fact that Vaush used about highschool grads and Sargon immediately got off the subject cuz he knows he can't counter 😂
Carl is being dishonest regarding the Sweden death-rate. The country itself is five times bigger than a country like Portugal, another European country that underwent a strict lockdown. Population size is comparable to Portugal (around 11 million). So, population density is many times lower than Portugal, yet the population is about the same size -- this means that, by logic alone, transmission should be well below what's expected of a country five times smaller and with the same amount of people. Especially if they're doing "Social distancing" like Carl says. With all of that said, Sweden's death rate and cases skyrocket above Portugal's; twice the number of cases and a whopping three times the number of deaths. Sweden is not a success case; this is absolutely misinformation banking on American's general ignorance of European events. If anyone's reading this after the fact: Do not let him, or anyone else fool you on this.
There's also the fact that like you said, if you don't live in Stockholm then you basically live in the middle of nowhere and your town has maybe a hundred people. At least that's how Joel from Vinesauce describes it since he's from northern sweden which to them is kinda their equivalent of the boonies. Also apparently everyone that's not from Stockholm kinda hates Stockholm because it's seen as being soulless and too "generic european" instead of anything uniquely Swedish.
sweden is not a success, but also living here I gotta say you have to be careful with pop density. A quarter of all swedes live in like 1 city, the rest seem to be concentrated to cities too. As Im typing its 3AM friday, all the bars and restaurants are full, no one gives a fuck about social distancing here, I've seen like 2 masks the last month. We're basically sacrificing our old to the economy
@@L0rd0fTh3N3rdz I dont know why we would, Vaush doesn't even consider himself to be morally consistent. It's always been about being effective rhetorically
@@rodrigolopes1978 "Anarcho-Communist" exists, so people literally live a contradiction. The funny part is, anarchism creates a power vacuum that often leads to authoritarian rule, so it's a self-fulfilling promise.
20:45 sargon is grossly misinformed on death numbers, or he is intentionally dishonest. Direct c19 death, sure it might be low, but that is not all doctors are looking at, they are also looking at co-morbidity, deaths caused by things brought on by c19, like pneumonia. This doesn't mean that c19 doesn't kill a lot, when medical researchers look at how deadly a virus is they have to include the co-morbidity in the numbers for them to actually be accurate. One bigger problem with c19 when compared to the former SARS outbreak, is that c19 significantly more infectious.
Well considering the death rate is about .5 it’s not very high, and considering deaths of people who were already dying of some underlying issue are being added to represent the average citizens likelihood of dying, its not a good way to present the deaths.
The fact that 94% of COVID deaths had 2.6 underlying conditions means those who die from this are on the way out. That’s a generalization but not a terribly inaccurate one. If we exposed the young and healthy to the virus and isolated the high risk then we would be mostly over with the virus like other countries are. The death rate for children over 4 to people under 45 is identical to the regular flu.
@@Yoshsterpalooza right, let me ask you this then. Let's say a person has terminal brain cancer, they get into a car crash that gives them swelling in the brain and that kills them. What should be noted as the cause of death? Should the cancer be the cause of death? Should the swelling in the brain? Or should the car crash be noted as the actual cause? The reason I ask, is that a person may have some underlying condition beforehand that may or may not kill them, but they can still die beforehand because of something else. For example you might have severe lung problems that will end up killing you, but if you then get c19 and that gives further problems and you then die, that still means that you died because of c19.
@@giovalladares1022 do you have a source for those very specific numbers? Just curious. Also, you do realise that when healthy people get over c19 their lungs aren't in great shape afterwards, right? Add to that, that you can get it again after having had it, you aren't immune after you've had it. And with damaged lungs from the first time your chances of survival are lower if you get it a second time. Are you going to claim that it's not because of c19 that they might die, its just because of lung damage?
CyphDK I had COVID. My lungs healed 100% because I’m young. Unless you have underlying conditions you will heal completely. You do in fact have immunity for a bare minimum of a couple months after catching it. My numbers are from the CDC themselves. For young people this isn’t anything else than a contagious flu.
@@marvelousmoostacheman5560 most of Sweden has nobody living there, where there is people there’s a lot of them, extremely urbanised, very little rural population.
Eh, seems like he's more focused on his personal business projects (which makes sense, given that their success or failure will decide the future of his career as a political/cultural commentator). I suspect people give these internet spats far more weight than is actually present in their minds.
Destiny's characterization of June was accurate. She made tradcon pandering, generic anti-SJW content when it was popular and flipped a switch when Vaush got big. Same with Cunter Avallone, another spineless, money grubbing opportunist.
Not quite mask off+hood on, but it's going somewhere where he will be way more flexible making things up so he can as aggressive as possible on lefties. Point being, not good if he doesn't contain his anger, which he's known to be not in total control of.
@@nunya2445 Literally the entirety of the luxuries and freedoms you benefit from and the fact that you're not forcibly eating my ass under serfdom right now is due to progressive ideals fighting through and shaping society toward more liberty and kindness to the fellow human. So I don't know why you'd equate "The Right", especially the american brand of conservatism, to be "The Real World". Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm subscribed to both channels and enjoy both, if you think this comment section is somehow less cringe, you're far too deep into your echo chamber and only deluding yourself.
@@PitchBlackYeti Correct...Internet Politics as a whole is cringe af.... As Destiny has talked about, it doesn't at all represent how most people think about politics I.E. Destiny: "I'm a progressive social democrat, in favor of more social programs, socialized health care, pro lgbt" Online left: "Destiny is a BoOt LiCkInG LiBeRaL CaPiTalist sHill"
PitchBlackYeti never said that their aren’t weird people here? But that Sargon comment section is actually delusional. But I appreciate the fact that you already assume I’m in an echo chamber, you got that rather quick from one comment of mine.
Btw before you get mad at Destiny for not going nuclear on Sargon, the righties are being super charitable and nice to Destiny rn because they think he's on their side after his Rittenhouse takes. So Destiny is trying to be as persuasive as possible in his rhetoric.
I don't follow many righties, mostly just sargon (though I more often than not feel his takes are tiresome), but I gotta say destiny is pretty on the money. I checked him out once before but after this stream I came over and watched a couple of his other conversations and I think he's an excellent conversationalist who actually fucking gets it. I don't remember which stream it was but when he told one guy that you have it distinguish between actual die-hard fascists and fascism enablers I was overjoyed.
I don't follow many righties, mostly just sargon (though I more often than not feel his takes are tiresome), but I gotta say destiny is pretty on the money. I checked him out once before but after this stream I came over and watched a couple of his other conversations and I think he's an excellent conversationalist who actually fucking gets it. I don't remember which stream it was but when he told one guy that you have it distinguish between actual die-hard fascists and fascism enablers I was overjoyed.
Extreme lefty here. It is indeed best to save going nuclear on people who actually can affect people's lives in a negative way. If I am ever in a debate with Trump I will always go nuclear with him. But people who defend Trump and people who run for government in UK but fucking fail because of a rape joke are not really worth going nuclear over. Destiny and David Pakman are the two methods of arguing that are the best of the best. Let the opponent play with the rope and then hang them with their own rope.
Its definitely interesting to see these guys having a friendly chat. I like both of these guys. I get tired of talks between the right and the right or the left and the left. The most memorable and entertaining discussions in my opinion are by people with opposing beliefs.
35:00 If you want to justify the government tracking every person you meet or are in contact with for this kind of disease, what are you willing to justify to end obesity and smoking? Those two are responsible for around 700k deaths every year. You could say those people had it coming, but aren't they victims of addiction, often starting their addiction as children? Those things are probably the reason why the US would be fucked even if you had a South Korean approach. How fascist do you want to go?
35:00 There is something strange going on. How can the US have 3x more covid cases but 30x more deaths from covid when compared to South Korea? This has probably more to do with pre-existing health issues.
Keeps happening when I talk to people about Covid. They'll misunderstand the data they're reading, then when it doesn't say what they thought it said they'll claim it's corrupt data.
"Universal Healthcare isn't perfect." Listening to a man who was living in Germany for large parts of his youth and despite this experience is still claiming this is quite astounding to be perfectly honest.
quite disappointed that neither Steve or Carl can explain why Korea or South East Asia were better at dealing with COVID than the US. But I'm not going to criticize both of you since you don't live in the culture of these East Asian countries. We lived thru wars and battles and deaths for thousands of years up until 40-50 years ago. We are way more susceptible to these kind of things, and we don't fck with the gov so combine all that we'd be more cautious about shit like COVID. Second important reason is that weather in most of the countries weren't as ideal for virus spreading as the US. The air is thick (humid), hot af, sweating, this plays a key role in spreading. The third reason is that most of the countries are not advanced like the US so most of us don't really live in closed door with AC ventilating system where scientists say the spread is way way more than outdoor. The economical or societal structure is smaller than the US too and it is easier for these countries to change or adapt to the situation than what the US can. Forth, the number of travelers to these countries are way less than the US. Take Vietnam for example, they can easily shutdown the airport and quarantine every single person, the cost over there is so cheap that they can afford that. The US? Good luck with that. The main problem why the US is shit with the COVID situation is that starting in early March, the US was no longer able to trace down where when and how a person got infected. Just like Taiwan or Korea, the US was able to manage this but unlike Taiwan and Korea who managed to continue doing so, the US turned to shit due to the traveler volume, and the fault is not only from Trump but from bunch of media, and Democrats who downplayed the danger through out Jan and Feb. The Asian community was already scared af and didn't really celebrate our biggest holiday (Lunar New Year) in late Jan. Pretty much all other communities were like fck it we dont give a shit.
@@shadysides9094 Hmm I dunno if I should tell a CIA agent this...but it's "Vaush Derangement Syndrome." Similar to the ADD, After Debating Destiny, symptom "Destiny Support Group" it's quite crippling and no cure is in sight.
Destiny is wrong about the EU army. Even just a quick wiki search lists plenty of sources that show keen interest from numerous member states and important figures in the EU. They're not quite there yet, but what was unthinkable a decade or two ago is a very real option now. I think Destiny may have fell for some bad sources or something, because he seemed completely certain that there was no such thing while in reality it is discussed all the time and interest in an EU military is far greater than it once was.
I knew Sargon has gotten more right wing since last time Destiny spoke to him, but sheesh... he's just a conservative talking head now. Sargon mind as welll go on Prager U with all of his Dishonesty.
@@majdjinn5042 Didn't he do a political compass test since speaking to Destiny - it showed that he has moved further to the right. In fact every test he's taken so far shows he keeps moving to the right.
@@bganonimouse2754 If that's true then I'll retract (not literally but with this comment) my statement ...unless they mean he's right wing already and becoming more so.
1:25:00 THIS right here is the MOST POWERFUL part of the entire discussions! In terms of the world view and difference between Liberals and Conservatives, it all comes down to this: What is the governments role in our society? Both Sargon and Destiny defended their position perfectly but this will ALWAYS be the fundamental area they clash and have to agree to disagree... Great vid btw.
Sargon is full of shit when it comes to the NHS. If it wasn't for the NHS I'd probably be dead twice over and hundreds of thousands of pounds in debt. The US system is horrific to even contemplate.
Sargon is spewing proper government talking points about how well they're doing: "These tests have a 93% false positive rate." "The number of deaths are inflated." This is all bullshit. This is a government hiding its tracks.
Darkfeign if you have evidence of that I’ll 100% agree with you, if it’s just conjecture please stop spreading misinformation for literally no reason. Not saying it is but im asking
@@Localpref416 it doesn't matter what country's government you reside under. Rights can go away in a second for little to no justification. Sargon said what he said like SK is some authoritarian idealogical government like Russia (also democratic) in which Putin or whoever can act however they want. Sargon neglects to think and just feels something is the way it is as an objective reasoning when it's genereally the opposite.
Reticulus Really? Maybe you can make that argument on an individual level, IE police brutality, or false imprisonment. But when the lockdowns started a lot of people were protesting and what not. And same with the recent BLM riots. How often do things of that scale happen in South Korea? Or are you just saying rights are a zero sum game because you could lose them in an instant. Unless you have a purely Anarcho-x society. But that’d be a pretty pessimistic.
@@scenopiachannel eh sargon gets a fair bit wrong. I'd say that he's philosophically relatively well read but he does a shit job of anything related to reality because he never truly digs into things and too often takes headlines/articles on good faith without looking at the actual available evidence or what they're using to support their claims, which is where his very boomer views come from. I don't think he's intellectually terrible but he does poorly in the non purely abstract realm (ironic considering he critiques this). He's as far from an empiricist as you could get really.
I live in a country with socialized healthcare and three years ago I came down with cancer. My surgery was scheduled for exactly one week from my diagnosis.
@John Toas I pay my taxes, so not only do I deserve it, but I am entitled to it. I hope you have fun living in your little world where you don't deserve to live a healthy life though.
@John Toas That's not how taxes work, or how anything works for that matter. But not having access to the same protections and rights as the rest of the developed world must be tough so I forgive you for that discrepancy
destiny's realist foreign policy takes are on usually on point. you should try speak to John J Mearsheimer or Robert D Kaplan and talk about China/Asia
Sargon: “More people are dying from the flu than covid.” Destiny “How many die from the flu?” Sargon “Woops, I don’t know let me look that up!” He should of just stuck to bullying creationist cause he really can’t reach any higher than low hanging fruit. How I ever thought this guy was the pinnacle of rational thought on TH-cam a decade ago is beyond me.
David Barnes It was back when I was personally going through my own edgy atheist teen phase. Characters like him, Darkmatter64, Thunderfoot, The Amazing Atheist were predominate personalities of the skeptic community that spent most their time pointing out the blatantly obvious fallacies and historic inaccuracies regarding creationist myths. He wasn’t super popular then but he had a following. Dropped him like a rock though when he started peddling conspiracies about Muslims trying to take over America.
lifesentence Ended it a little after I stoped watching his videos and I went on to gather a greater appreciation for the diversity of sects, denomination, and the varying levels of conviction followers maintain. Still an agnostic atheist but I’ve learned to stop rolling my eyes when someone says, “Bless you.”
Ah like it's fine Destiny having chill debates to get the radical centrists to come over and I know he pushed back often here But he let Sargon just spout pure conspiracy and lies when Sargon got going, particularly regarding the NHS and immigrants. And Destiny knows he's wrong here but it's just so infuriating watching him let Sargon go off.
Sargon: I don't know much about New York politics but let me tell you why Cuomo let old people die Also Sargon: It is like the flu Britain is awesome we should have taken the Swedish module If you don't know what you are talking about don't act like you do
Destiny was right , these conversations are boring, what is the point in talking to a potted plant about what it believes is wrong with rioting. The only question I’m curious about is whether a world where Sargons thoughts are relevant is worth defending anymore.
What a patriot, everytime Destiny said something good about UK, Sargon goes "it is not working because immigrants". Well, as Destiny said it is not perfect it is a step in the right direction. Jeeee
No, it depends on what kind of immigrants we are talking about. Highly skilled and educated immigrants are not the problem. Fact is that they make up a substantial part of the work force and without them UKs health system would be worse off..
Globalist lol... well have fun with ur simplistic world view... Also skilled workers is needed no matter nationality.. they are rare.. but I guess you know better then me, who is an actual health care worker...
God i wish these right wingers could have some self respect, you aren't converting him, stop embarrassing yourself. Maybe its my bias as a fan, but i feel like his political stances are still very obvious.
Vaush took sargon's shoeonhead so he's coming for vaush's destiny.
new destiny arc
Just no, almost everything Sargon said was just dumb or a lie.
@@joaovitorreisdasilva9573 well thats the usual
@@hiruyabebaw807 he literally opens saying he didn't thought Destiny was a socialist. THEY DEBATED OVER THE 3 CLIPS HE POSTED INTO HIS SHITPOST CHANNEL THAT IMPLIED DESTINY WAS A COMMIE FFS LOL. Like I know socialists and communists are two very different things, but Sargon either don't know or don't care let's be real here lol
@@joaovitorreisdasilva9573 To these people, anyone left of Hayek is a commie traitor. Rather ironic because these are the same people who bemoan the fact that the other side is always accusing them of being literal fascists and white supremacists.
So next convo is going to be jontron i gather, since this is a reboot arc?
Jon wouldn’t allow himself back on the stream
Arc ongoing. This is a textbook example of liberals capitulating with fascism when threatened by the left. Destiny let so much slide here that he wouldn't have before. Sargon is as twittish as he ever was.
Zombi Pineapple imagine thinking Sargon of Akkad is a fascist 😂 how’d you figure that one, brainlet? Ever read a book? 😂
@@Spinbassflipbassfly He's a white nationalist lol
Elnet I don’t understand how you can state that as if it’s a fact. He clearly isn’t, he’s never expressed any such view.
"hey Carl, hey Steve"
Old lovers
That hurt
It’s
WTF, I never expected these two to ever talk again.
Maybe Destiny was depressed and just wanted an easy punching bag today.
Perhaps this will happen one day with Vaush too
William Brown they seem pretty friendly here
Sargon's looking for blood in the water for a convert.
@@valforatlas That doesn't discredit what I said, people like having punching bags around.
The industrial revolution and its consequences
have been
A disaster for
The problem with
Is how little it is
bombed.
Ah yes finally Going back to the classics.
Is he really tho...we'll see.
@Chocobot101 trueee we need more wannabe sky news pundits with little baby chins like sargon bc historically uneducated overfed aristocrats are the the vanguard of rationality!
@Chocobot101 not sure how that in any way disputes my description of his very run of the mill routine wherein he pretends to be rational centrist meanwhile his content consist entirely of seething disregard for anything to the left of the tories. Funny that he chose to do a crowder and "debate" random people on the street and you think that's somehow a true road test of his ideas. Was this after his debate with vaush where he had his life's work thoroughly dismantled by someone half his age? if so thats funnier still.
@Chocobot101 yea i feel like he came with two main arguments on immigration that were classic cancervative pedantry, they were quickly dismantled and yet he just decided to repeat them over and over and pretend to laugh when he had nothing else. I'd say vaush is good because he can unlike most people succinctly back up his ideas on the fly and has basically never lost an argument let alone a debate. There are others on his level of sociological and historical understanding but he both opens his stream up to chuds and directly goes after weasels like baby chin pool, louder coward and ben shapino all the while addressing the essential grift at the heart of counter-revolutionary pedantry.
@Chocobot101 you'll have to link me that or namecheck it I'm not seeing it.
As far as i can tell people like Sargon and the various alt-right guys rely on the idea that immigration hurts the working class but won't accept the answer that you can just mitigate this with the most tepid of socialist policies. I mean sure theres a bunch of issues with changing demographics but the positives surely outweight them and it's really just an inevitable thing at this point.
Its also just laughable that people like sargon give a single fuck about the working class anyway given their hysterical opposition to the left, Corbyn, Sanders and really any mention of a more equitable capitalism.
Sargon: It's clear that socialism appeals because people like simplistic, very generalized views of things
Sargon: No, see, all the problems with the NHS, that's all because of mass immigration
Sargon: if black people in the US just all got married, they wouldn’t have problems anymore
Gheleon the Driven you’re missing the point. You have the same exact thought process that idiot Sargon has. Black people don’t get married often because of socioeconomic and racial issues that still exist in America that lead to them unable to have a stable family. This is putting the horse before the wagon. Black people don’t have issues because they aren’t married, that doesn’t make any logical sense, they aren’t married because of the issues still existed in the country. The only way your thought process would work is to admit that black people some how have some weird gene that lead them to create a culture that doesn’t let them married which just doesn’t make sense biologically.
@@gheleonthedriven649 It's also about the generational wealth gap that was also perpetrated by the white community as well as being only a few decades since the lifting of laws that were dedicated to segregating blacks from the whites. But yes, personal responsibility is the biggerest problem that will solve all black issues pog
Is he still surface level Andy? Is it worth the watch?
@@gheleonthedriven649 Do you think people will be more or less inclined to get married when they have very poor socioeconomic prospects?
Not making the "responsible" choices isn't the cause. It's a symptom of a deeper problem.
“Cuomo never sent sick people to nursing homes, that never happened.” That didn’t age well, maybe consider what else could currently be presented as fact or science and be potentially false.
Damn Destiny getting departnered hit him pretty hard huh?
It almost feels like he’s been doing this exact thing for years now regardless of partnership, but what do I know
@@TrueGamer22887 I predict that Steve will do this for a bit and eventually he'll reach a breaking point and decide to replay 2016 again. He's probably more beneficial for the world pulling dumbfuck kids away from the alt right than he is debating the left.
@A for Carroti hope youll remember you posted this in a few months and will realise how dumb you were.
A for Carrot opposed to larpy socialists who end up getting Trump re-elected because they’re too lazy to vote. Destiny is a socdem, he’s part of the left.
Ed Sullivan so his criticism is that the far right people are lying about not being far right when they very clearly are. Destiny still believes is larger redistribution of wealth, a form of universal healthcare. He supports Biden adamantly and has made his hate of trump exceedingly clear. He pro trans rights and pro lgtbt rights so tell me again how he’s secretly some far right bigot.
Old Destiny - "Debate w/ Sargon of Akkad"
New Destiny - "Chatting w/ Sargon of Akkad"
Destiny's old TH-cam Editor - "I can't believe Sargon of Akkad said this!"
I don’t like this arc
Newer destiny- "collaboration with sargon"
The horror.
Ian Blum why not? I don’t mind the debates, but some more relaxed discussions are also productive and good to listen too
destiny became a liberalist collaborator in this negotiation.
Best one I've seen in a long time. Good job
Sargon and Destiny has joined forces to form the omni-liberalist gang.
As a brit its hard to watch Sargon making up random shit about the UK, which is just flat out wrong, during the debates.
ikr "the Tories have been chill over Brexit", "UKIP are Churchillian (whatever that means)". it's all so infuriating
@@SuperSupermanX1999 he thinks hes learned lessons from his first disastrous attempt at politics and wants to be a conservative mp now..
it is crazy how much he lies and some people just gobble it up..
"Flat out wrong" according to you
@@jameshopkins6168 According to any reasonable person who's not grifting for his party, yeah.
Me: Hey Carl seems way more reasonable than usual.
Start talking about “bootstraps” and healthcare: Here we go, this is the Carl, I grew up to know
Carl, the dishonest interlocutor.
It’s an honest discussion with genuine points of views. I don’t understand why you think someone believing in ‘pulling by your bootstraps’ and critiques about issues with the NHS is something to be looked down upon.
@@divusartemis2045 I'm not dale but there's a couple of consistent errors I see people make that have crept into your viewpoint here. The first is that conservatives don't want anyone in trouble to be helped. Generally the refinement here is that conservatives find it morally repugnant to FORCE aid (ie. through government) rather than participating willfully in community service, charity, etc... Statistically conservatives have been more likely to give to charity for that matter.
Conflating conservatism with Christianity isn't a correct assumption, but even if it were Christianity doesn't generally advocate for government action beyond restraining evildoers/justice, etc... it advocates for personal and church action.
On a practical level there's also a fear of enabling. The more local a support/service organization is the more likely they are able to wisely distribute funds, etc... tying people into their community rather than making them beholden to a faceless government they feel no obligation to.
There's certainly arguments that can be made for and against this kind of opinion but saying "the government should give everyone healthcare" doesn't give someone the moral high-ground.
@@divusartemis2045 A lot was said but the specific thing that interested me the most were your comments about police/fire. Perhaps ultraconservatives would be against that but I think most conservatives do have a concept of a public good that is not identical to government charity. Additionally police and fire are typically more local than centralized, and the more local a government body is the more answerable it is to its constituents (theoretically)
obviously then you can get into the SBI and FBI etc... but this was meant to illustrate a general theme.
@@divusartemis2045 As the argument goes the state has clearly defined roles at its most basic level, IE in a state of nature people have perfect freedom but limited security so governments are instituted to secure rights with a minimum of interference in those rights.
Thus judicial functions and protection of its citizens is a governments highest and rightful obligation, but charitable functions like a social safety net, welfare, medicare for all, etc... are suspect.
That's exposition based on a lockean view, I'm not as familiar with a conservative version of the hobbesian view.
Then of course you get into the actual practical arguments about whether government is the best tool for some things. What's the cost of giving the government the power to do a good thing, etc... mingled with the fact that all politicians and philosophers are human, so the best rationale doesn't mean the results will be great lol. No real question here, just meandering in my thoughts. Thanks for your time haha!
Destiny: our infant mortality rate in the US is abysmal, sub-saharan Africa levels
Easily Googled, infant mortality per 100,000 births:
Sweden: 2
Germany: 2
UK: 4
Canada: 4
United States: 6
Uganda: 33
Ghana: 34
He's greatly exagerated but the US have a worrying number of states (and ethnicities) with pretty high levels of mortality rates for a first world nation, from what I can find some states are around at the same levels as third world nations, the average nationwide was closer to chile in 2019 than to slovak republic, neither of which are good, and the worst in the country were closer to turkey than even chile.
That's far from sub saharan africa levels, it's also abysmally high for a first world nation.
Sargon trying *REEEEEEEEEEAL* hard to convert Destiny to The Dark Side of online counterculture. 🤦
Not more then Vaush 😅
@@St1kyFinguz Never heard of em
@@BenReillySpydr1962 Vaush is a dishonest socialist hack.
And sargon isn't trying to convert anyone. He's just talking.
@@smalltrashman4227 Go away Sargonite
*Sargon, Coach Redpill, John Z:* “welcomeeee!”
*Destiny* : “chill”
is John Zherkas conservative? He definitely didn't seem like one
Leajey42 he used to say he was on the old Rajj shows but if you actually keep up with his stances he’s moderately liberal
Sargon: I don't want to ruin society for my kids to protect old people who won't be around much longer anyway
Brexit, the 8 ton elephant in the room: *sits*
And no Trump, an old person, has the virus.
Current UK economic predictions outstrip Germany and France over 10-15 years.
Britain left because they were the second highest contributor to the EU, second only to germany, but the EU still treated britain like shit.
Britain wanted to be sovereign again, and didn't want to pay the millions upon millions of support money that clearly wasn't doing anything *for the british people*
Thus they left
@@CorwinTheOneAndOnly Yeahhhh things are going a bit shit in the UK since Brexit: Mass loss of workers in services and transportation, financial institutions moved £150Bn in capital and assets to the EU and we're currently facing shortages of goods AS WELL AS facing reduced exports to the EU continent.
Brexit was a bad move on all fronts
@@kaboose64 you traded security for personal liberty and sovereignty. It was a great move
That rude man says that Korea is autocratic. What we did was much more democratic than most Western countries forced lockdown!
Yes, Korea is a country that has embraced democracy late, but for that reason, it's stupid to ignore the democratic traditions we have made and kept! According to the man's standards, a country that has not been democratic for about 200 years can't be an example of solving the problem democratically?
And how would you explain New Zealand? I'm so disappointed that this streamer didn't properly ask about that part.
It's all Fox News taking points. To defend Trump's lack of response to covid, you kinda have to argue that being proactive or doing anything more than he did would have been overly totalitarian like China.
Destiny admits he doesn't know much about history. He probably didn't question Sargons lie about Korea because he didn't know anything about it.
It's cognitive dissonance where if a country is doing better than us, they must be authoritarian!
@@k.k.glider6212 thats not what cognitive dissonance means.
@@scenopiachannel
That's right. We did smartphone contact tracing which was a undemocratic measure and violates personal freedom. However, if we didn't, we would have violated our individual liberties even more. We predicted that if we didn't do that, a lockdown like the one in Wuhan would be inevitable nationally
We did less undemocratic measures to avoid bigger undemocratic measures. Was the action most Western countries did more democratic than we did? We avoided Draconian lockdown by doing contact tracing.
Oh please. Don't boil the word that Western countries, especially countries like the United States, do not compromise on privacy or democracy in any case. Even Koreans living in distant East Asia can google the Patriot Act.
Oh jesus, let's see how cringe this can get.
this arc is getting too predictable, hopefully the writing gets better in 2021
I want to know how many fallacies Sargon makes that he doesn't realize are fallacies.
@@neonlost Destiny is advocating right wing safety squads. Boomerang theory confirmed.
Actually better question. How many times will Sargon in this conversation come to a conclusion first, then when Destiny asks him to clarify how he came to that conclusion he presents reasoning that actually undermines his conclusion and then pretends that it doesn't?
@@SeruraRenge11 True.
17:42 Aged like fine wine
As far as the virus name discussion: Even Corona beer came out after losing money and said they would pay a large sum of money to start calling it the Bud Light Virus. Even the stigma of sharing a name with a beer hurt its market share.
I believe this is implied in calling it the "Chinese Virus". People like to pretend (in bad faith) like it's a criticism on Chinese nationality/race, when it's directly a criticism of CCP's mishandling and ultimately unleashing the pandemic.
Well maybe china should stop producing world ending viruses then, and then we can talk about raising their reputation.
Sargon’s Sweden take aged like milk lmao
sargon strategically waits for destiny to get into an anti-leftist mood to talk to him so destiny wouldnt be as aggressive in calling out his crap lol
really glad destiny shouted out potholer54... he's one of the best guys on youtube, though his content has slowed down sadly
Arman Raider actually his content has ramped up relatively recently. He used to only upload around 2 videos a year in the early 2010s
@@socialminds9894 he was making something like 20+ videos back in 2011-2013 or so.
@@raiderrocker18 agreed. Now and again, I watch his steven crowder videos.
Hey thanks! I didn't see the full debate but I just checked out potholder thanks to you, he really has great videos! I much prefer he takes his time rather than spewing out stuff. Cheers :)
Sargon made some good points about the WHO though.
Only 10 minutes in and I have never heard Sargon sound so chill
Honestly, he and the rest of the righties who're trying to feed off of him right now are treating him like a potential asset because they're tone-deaf.
I think he is trying to love bomb destiny.
@@mamayareborn Yea this seems to be the common theme between most of the righties that he's talked to recently.
Sargon's had his dopamine.
This is also the most chill Destiny has been with Carl
Man, Sargon switches topics /changes arguments / goes into diatribes so often. Anything to make the opposition not call you out on your bullshit haha.
He's even self-aware, at some point saying how he enjoyed the meandering conversation.
You realise you’re watching destiny right? That’s pretty much his entire shtick in a nutshell.
@@ningen7736 No destiny hyper obsessed over every point. He’s the extreme opposite
@@adamyooz Yeah lmao, Destiny tends to hyperfocus to his detriment a lot of the time, his problem is literally dead opposite to what Sargon does. Especially since sometimes the thing he'll hyperfocus can be really stupid.
Im pretty sure: sargon cant read. Change my mind.
reading backwards is still reading
He still can't read. Confirmed.
wait thats not a fact
Sargon thinking that in science, going from “there’s no evidence of this, more research needed”, to “we now found evidence of this...” is a 180 degree flip, shows that he *really* doesn’t understand the scientific method.
No he was talking about how if you tell someone there is no evidence of something they will believe that the said thing is untrue. Surely you understand this? So when the WHO says that there is no evidence of human to human transmission, it causes people to believe human to human transmission isn't a thing for covid. This is why they should have accompanied the statement with something like, " but other strains of coronavirus have consistently shown human to human transmission, so it's better to be safe and keep a distance to other people."
Small TrashMan I agree they could have made it a little more clear. They underestimate how dumb the average person is, given after reading “more testing is needed” they still didn’t understand. Incredible.
@@TopSpeedKertus Exactly. I wouldn't necessarily call someone dumb simply for that though. I mean think about it, if you're going about your business and you hear that there's a new virus, but there's no evidence of human to human transmission, why would you change your whole way of life off of what seems like an extremely minor threat? In hindsight we could say that you should but they don't have that luxury.
As I understand it WHO is responsible to inform governments and not their populations directly. I'd say it's the fault of local media to not correcting misunderstandings. Imo WHO needs to be able to communicate in well defined and concise language assuming competence on behalf of the reader.
@@_Kiren_ That is somewhat true but what I said also applies to world leaders. Why risk looking like a lunatic when the threat seems extremely minor? Imagine how delusional trump would seem if he locked down the whole country and then there was no human to human transmission and it wasn't an issue. He would look like a raving madman.
I'm only 9 minutes in, but I'm seeing Destiny already fall into the trap of thinking all police departments are a monolith.
1. People are always saying "improve training improve training" but it's like how? improve which training? New York City has one of the most advanced police departments in the entire world, and the requirements for joining are extremely rigorous. A police department in rural Wisconsin does not need nearly the same level of rigor.
2. Destiny is commenting on how some police departments have tanks. Yeah, some police departments have a lot of funding and get leftover military gear. But there are police departments that literally can't afford proper tasers (I heard this in a donut operator video), let alone an entire system for body cameras.
Obviously, I will never say it's wrong to make policing way more efficient. But I feel like people are making these arguments thinking that police departments are a monolith, and without ever having listened to or spoken to a police officer about it.
About Trump's response to the coronavirus. I'm certain there were plenty of things that Trump should have done before the number of cases exploded, but I agree with Carl that really nobody took it seriously until it started to explode. And when it did, Trump was really on top of communicating with the public and listening to his epidemic response team. But we also have to remember that the US is a federal republic, and states have the power to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves from the virus.
IQ is extremely powerful in predicting one's success in life. And it's a really powerful way of explaining why there are some racial disparities that remain true all over the globe. So we can steer away from this idea that "Everyone is capable of being rich and successful if they just try hard enough." No someone with an IQ of 85 is going to have an EXTREMELY hard time of being rich and successful. Now if you have an entire population that has an average IQ of 85, then you can see why that community may not be as successful as other groups with higher average IQs. Current research consistently suggests IQ is really easy to decrease, but is nearly impossible to significantly increase permanently. Using this knowledge can help you figure out better ways of helping these people achieve a decent life without the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" line.
About China's immigration. Sure China is willing to let in lots of immigrants for work purposes, but it also is extremely hard to become a citizen and you will be deported so fast if you do bad shit. Kinda wish America had that too.
If you add 700 million immigrants to make a billion citizens, you no longer live in America. America as a nation is now dead and has been obliterated. Good luck with whatever you have left but that's not a nation anymore.
I think Destiny forgets that over half of the federal budget is spent on social programs, including social security, Medicaid, and Medicare. So it's not like your immediately fucked if you're poor or disabled. And last time I checked, the US has some of the best cancer survivor rates in the world. But of course, the system could be way way better.
"Xenophobia is the dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries." Trump calling it the "China Virus" is not xenophobia by definition. He's saying "fuck you China the country" not "fuck you every Chinese person". Constantly calling it xenophobia is like those idiots who constantly call everything racist or transphobic. Obviously, it's not the best way to name a virus, it's more than anything just a jab at China. And interesting how Destiny says calling it the "Chinese virus" is wrong because Chinese is an ethnicity. Chinese is also a nationality? It's like if you called something the "Swedish flu" I don't believe a rational person immediately thinks "we are naming the virus after the people of Swedish ethnicity", no they would think this is a virus that comes from the country of Sweden.
"where are we getting this consistent data from?"
"the cdc, literally their job"
"where are they getting it from?"
literally spending $6 billion on scientific research?
If I 'literally spend 6 billion' to cure cancer, will I cure cancer? Excellent logic there brother!!
@@lmSnarkk CDC isnt trying to cure anything specific, or anything really. Try again
brother lol
@Jason Simmons His valid point is that saying you spend X amount of dollars doesn't answer the question "where are they getting it (the data) from?"
Does more money automatically make things more effective?
There's already been the letter from thousands of CDC staff about considering racism a disease.
There's clear deductive evidence they don't always adhere to science if their politics get in the way.
Members of the CDC also tend to like their own jobs. So being fair about any data that would undermine that, they have a clear bias against.
@@sirellyn sure there's not a causitive link between money and the information they put out. However, empirically, data collection is relatively straightforward, the depth and scale are dependent on money at this kind of task.
Also, it's really stupid to push this narrative that they have to inflate numbers to keep their jobs. The WHO wasn't created overnight. They'll still keep their job, and also the economic damage caused by covid could screw available WHO funds long term anyway.
Kinda crazy how he can play a game and have a deep conversation at the same time.
On NY Coronavirus:
Cuomo put nursing home patients back in the homes because he thought the large projections were going to overwhelm hospitals, hence why he tried to make space and there were so many unused temporary hospitals.
However, he was so incredibly wrong due to susceptibility of this population. Some governors knew this and were smarter (De Santis).
This is why now NY doesn’t have data on its nursing homes since it’s estimated 15-30% of deaths came from nursing homes and I doubt they want people to realize just how badly they messed up.
Destiny is 100% wrong here, not sure where he’s getting his data from :/
As a Korean-American, it's great that South Korea gets so much props for their handling of Covid. However, Sargon's point on "liberty" is right.
There is no culturlal importance set on the concept of privacy in Korea. They basically traded all privacy (contact tracing via location data, phone tracing, messaging, etc.) for safety (which they will probably never get back)
Whether the trade is worth it is an interesting philosophical debate. But I just want people to know there is a trade.
@Eren Yeager Probably because Korea has had maybe 20 years tops where it wasn't ruled by either a king, a foreign empire, or a military dictatorship. It isn't exactly a culture that has had much liberty to care about.
There is no trade. Your privacy is meaningless; the government absolutely does not care what you're doing. This idea that there's some office somewhere where government people in suits are spying your every move and judging you is such an unbelievably stupid and so centrally american perspective of life that it's hard to take seriously -- and believe me, out of respect, I am trying.
Your "privacy" was foregone the moment satellites became a thing, Damien. If the government wants to know where you are, they will, and they'll never need to ask for your permission. You'll never even know.
Equally, and since I know a lot of pro-gun people tend to share this idea of "THE GUBMENT SEEIN ALL MA NUDES"; if the government wanted you dead, or wanted to control the population or subjugate them, I could always remind you that they have fighter jets, tanks, and thousands of trained soldiers. But honestly, they wouldn't need any of that since they have access to your water supplies and, should they be willing, you'd all be poisoned and killed within one week before any of you even knew what the fuck was going on.
So, yeah, needless to say: I 100% side with South Korea. Fuck this silly concept of "privacy". Nobody gives a fuck where you are at all times and I'll gladly trade that information in, if it means that I'll be safer in the longrun.
@Eren Yeager Because it is a culture that doesn't live under a false pretense of privacy to begin with.
@@mamayareborn you could have stopped at your privacy is meaningless, nothing u say beyond that is worth reading
@@SeruraRenge11 Americans have existed for 300 years. Most cities in my country are older than that. They're still struggling with concepts like what liberty actually means. This association of "the government has my data" with "freedoms", can only come from a country currently in its teenager years. You're literally treating your government like an edgy teen treats their parent, because you think they secretly hate you and don't understand you and want you dead. It's really funny.
And listen: It's not like I don't conceptually understand. Spending so long being fed garbage about the rest of the world and how we're all a bunch of brainwashed savage commies will do that to ya.
Can't handle whenever Destiny calls Sargon by his given name...always throws me back to Llamas with Hats...
-"CAAAAAARL that kills people!"
@13:29, so he doesn't say the travel ban was xenophobic, but he does say the trump admin's actions were xenophobic in this clip. th-cam.com/video/aAdzW-mRKTk/w-d-xo.html. Not sure what he would be talking about other than the travel ban.
You know 2020 is fucked when Destiny's most civil discussion is with Sargon
I thought this was a good chat. The Zherka chat was surprisingly good as well.
I feel the same way I expected dipshit grifting but I enjoyed this
The zherka chat was good...this one was trash, sargon kept bullshitting the whole time to a passive destiny
@@greyhound4204 Okay, buddy.
The mushrooms calmed destiny down a lot lol, pre mushroom Destiny would never let Surgon get away with the Spanish flu conspiracies near the end
as a Brit it was crazy frustrating for me to watch Sargon massively misrepresent everything that's happening over here regarding covid, the Tories being "reasonable" over Brexit (they're literally trying to break international law at the moment), UKIP being "Churchillian" whatever that means (they've just turned into a bunch of anti-islam shitposters at this point) and so on. it's infuriating watching Sargon getting away with that kind of stuff in front of a predominantly American audience that isn't necessarily going to know better
As someone from the UK, sargon just lied about so many things and seemed to back it up with ''Well in the UK'' because Destiny can't refute it, such slimey behavior
It's not slimey if your just that delusional and live in your own world
@@naomira_nee Can't fault that logic lol
I’m also from the UK, what did sargon lie about here?
I'm from NY cumo killed people in nursing homes can confirm
@@nathangordon4891 One notable lie is when he makes out that immigrants and "healthcare tourism" are the one of the biggest cause of the NHS's patient overcapacity problems. This simply isn't true. They're incredibly insignificant compared to other policy issues, if you can even call it an issue when it's literally there to treat sick and injured people with no questions asked.
I'd take Sargon any day over any of these BreadTubers. And I agree with him only about 30% of the time.
Wow sargon is a dishonest idiot. Who the hell takes this lying illiterate Buffon seriously? He's lost every debate he's ever had and is a fascist advocating for an ethnostate while masquerading as "a liberal" lmao. What a clown.
Destiny also has the tendency to be a condescending smug idiot who thinks ad hominem attacks and just dismissing anyone who calls themselves socialist or communist offering no arguments and making himself look like a clown. Not a good look for him.
so this video is basically sargon thinking he's on good graces with destiny because they both dislike vaush but when he's more comfortable opening up destiny destroys his ego
insta kill Destiny probably likes Vaush deep deep down comparatively more than Sargon.
I watch a fuck ton of Vaush and destiny so I really hate this arc, Carl is trying to warm up to destiny so he can get a new recruit
@@gram8121 ...Or Carl's always had sympathy for people who get burnt like Destiny? That's more likely since he's commented on similar situations in the past. Don't mind read, jesus.
How would destiny destroy his ego when sargon was right on almost every point here?
@@RequiemOfSolo Why do you go immediately to personal attacks? It's like you aren't even interested in making sure you're correct and instead religiously worship an ideology or idea. You think anyone who goes against that is automatically evil. It's actually pretty sad.
Sargon 1 month ago: No ones dying from corona here
Now: 500 deaths a day
Edit: Now 1,500/day
Now: 4000/day
@@NocturnalNick nah ur thinking of US, it’s around 1,500 UK, which is still terrible nonetheless
@@leophoenixmusic and sargons Sweden example didn't pan out too well either.
1:20:30 oh the irony of Sargon of the right wing echo chamber Akkad saying that about someone else.
Destiny is a complete clown.
You Destiny fans are so fair weather its not even funny, get real. I am an OG Destiny antagonist, I've been every level of not particularly caring for Destiny to standing up out of my chair and having adrenaline rushes of hatred and frustration as he railed in using some rhetorical Cuban switchblade attack and I could only helplessly listen and debate furiously at the wall behind my computer screen. I've disliked Destiny since before Kraut lost his entire career to a Quebecois superpredator. I've steady been shadowboxing Destiny's arguments in my imagination for a decade-if-you-round-up.
Some of you really are biting your fingernails that Destiny is visiting the witches and the warlocks and hes not going to vanquish them and cleanse the lands, oh my, what if they woo him into reciting an incantation? The spell will take hold, he'll cast it back on us, we'll all be cursed!
IF I was a fan of Destiny, and I emphasize IF.... I was.... I would be smiting all these unfaithful, fairweather fans who seriously get frantic or frustrated with this, and its not just memeing for them... REAL Destiny fans are sitting back chilling, listening to some fresh approaches on content, hoping Destiny harvests a solid number of Sargonites to give him a chance and become a new source of information or perspective in their daily viewings. If you don't realize Destiny doesnt get 'wooed' by 'chatting' at this point... I recommend a look into his world-class internet drama portfolio.
How many levels of irony are we on here?
Irony? Yes! Adderall? Most likely.
If this isn't poetry, nothing is
@@odoibe3620 You Destiny fans are so fair weather its not even funny, get real. I am an OG Destiny antagonist, I've been every level of not particularly caring for Destiny to standing up out of my chair and having adrenaline rushes of hatred and frustration as he railed in using some rhetorical Cuban switchblade attack and I could only helplessly listen and debate furiously at the wall behind my computer screen. I've disliked Destiny since before Kraut lost his entire career to a Quebecois superpredator. I've steady been shadowboxing Destiny's arguments in my imagination for a decade-if-you-round-up.
Some of you really are biting your fingernails that Destiny is visiting the witches and the warlocks and hes not going to vanquish them and cleanse the lands, oh my, what if they woo him into reciting an incantation? The spell will take hold, he'll cast it back on us, we'll all be cursed!
IF I was a fan of Destiny, and I emphasize IF.... I was.... I would be smiting all these unfaithful, fairweather fans who seriously get frantic or frustrated with this, and its not just memeing for them... REAL Destiny fans are sitting back chilling, listening to some fresh approaches on content, hoping Destiny harvests a solid number of Sargonites to give him a chance and become a new source of information or perspective in their daily viewings. If you don't realize Destiny doesnt get 'wooed' by 'chatting' at this point... I recommend a look into his world-class internet drama portfolio.
This is actually the most reasonable way to engage with his content and actually shows his true value. He can argue his perspective in a way that even if you hate it and disagree with it, it is informative, insightful and challenges you. There is no handwaving his ideas because if you disagree, you have to really think on why. Regardless of how edgy he likes to get from time to time, he will always be a valuable mind with ideas you must consider and seek out for you own benefit.
LOL love that destiny just off-handedly throws out the same statistical fact that Vaush used about highschool grads and Sargon immediately got off the subject cuz he knows he can't counter 😂
They already had this exact conversation in the "post jontron debate" with the exact same stats
@@TheBarca1889 So, just outright denial?
Carl is being dishonest regarding the Sweden death-rate. The country itself is five times bigger than a country like Portugal, another European country that underwent a strict lockdown. Population size is comparable to Portugal (around 11 million). So, population density is many times lower than Portugal, yet the population is about the same size -- this means that, by logic alone, transmission should be well below what's expected of a country five times smaller and with the same amount of people. Especially if they're doing "Social distancing" like Carl says. With all of that said, Sweden's death rate and cases skyrocket above Portugal's; twice the number of cases and a whopping three times the number of deaths.
Sweden is not a success case; this is absolutely misinformation banking on American's general ignorance of European events. If anyone's reading this after the fact: Do not let him, or anyone else fool you on this.
There's also the fact that like you said, if you don't live in Stockholm then you basically live in the middle of nowhere and your town has maybe a hundred people. At least that's how Joel from Vinesauce describes it since he's from northern sweden which to them is kinda their equivalent of the boonies. Also apparently everyone that's not from Stockholm kinda hates Stockholm because it's seen as being soulless and too "generic european" instead of anything uniquely Swedish.
sweden is not a success, but also living here I gotta say you have to be careful with pop density. A quarter of all swedes live in like 1 city, the rest seem to be concentrated to cities too. As Im typing its 3AM friday, all the bars and restaurants are full, no one gives a fuck about social distancing here, I've seen like 2 masks the last month. We're basically sacrificing our old to the economy
@@notmenotyou I mean that's one way to not have to pay for their healthcare.
@@SeruraRenge11 theyve paid taxes longer than I've been alive, I think they deserve a nice retirement.
@@notmenotyou I wasn't saying I disagree, I'm just syaing that seems to be the state of things.
Yes, vaush, the famous class reductionist.
The famous authoritarian... anarchist? I don't get their logic
@@L0rd0fTh3N3rdz I dont know why we would, Vaush doesn't even consider himself to be morally consistent. It's always been about being effective rhetorically
@@rodrigolopes1978 "Anarcho-Communist" exists, so people literally live a contradiction. The funny part is, anarchism creates a power vacuum that often leads to authoritarian rule, so it's a self-fulfilling promise.
@@singami465 Anarcho-communism isn't a contradiction, it's a tautology.
@@Cushpot Do we get a BINGO or something?
20:45 sargon is grossly misinformed on death numbers, or he is intentionally dishonest.
Direct c19 death, sure it might be low, but that is not all doctors are looking at, they are also looking at co-morbidity, deaths caused by things brought on by c19, like pneumonia.
This doesn't mean that c19 doesn't kill a lot, when medical researchers look at how deadly a virus is they have to include the co-morbidity in the numbers for them to actually be accurate.
One bigger problem with c19 when compared to the former SARS outbreak, is that c19 significantly more infectious.
Well considering the death rate is about .5 it’s not very high, and considering deaths of people who were already dying of some underlying issue are being added to represent the average citizens likelihood of dying, its not a good way to present the deaths.
The fact that 94% of COVID deaths had 2.6 underlying conditions means those who die from this are on the way out. That’s a generalization but not a terribly inaccurate one. If we exposed the young and healthy to the virus and isolated the high risk then we would be mostly over with the virus like other countries are.
The death rate for children over 4 to people under 45 is identical to the regular flu.
@@Yoshsterpalooza right, let me ask you this then.
Let's say a person has terminal brain cancer, they get into a car crash that gives them swelling in the brain and that kills them.
What should be noted as the cause of death?
Should the cancer be the cause of death?
Should the swelling in the brain?
Or should the car crash be noted as the actual cause?
The reason I ask, is that a person may have some underlying condition beforehand that may or may not kill them, but they can still die beforehand because of something else.
For example you might have severe lung problems that will end up killing you, but if you then get c19 and that gives further problems and you then die, that still means that you died because of c19.
@@giovalladares1022 do you have a source for those very specific numbers? Just curious.
Also, you do realise that when healthy people get over c19 their lungs aren't in great shape afterwards, right? Add to that, that you can get it again after having had it, you aren't immune after you've had it.
And with damaged lungs from the first time your chances of survival are lower if you get it a second time. Are you going to claim that it's not because of c19 that they might die, its just because of lung damage?
CyphDK I had COVID. My lungs healed 100% because I’m young. Unless you have underlying conditions you will heal completely. You do in fact have immunity for a bare minimum of a couple months after catching it.
My numbers are from the CDC themselves. For young people this isn’t anything else than a contagious flu.
Sargon is an immigration reductionist. There isn't a single problem in the UK which he can't reduce to it.
Sweden has universal healthcare, and the population is much less dense. Pun intended.
I live in Sweden and was thinking that when he tried that cheap argument
Here in the UK we also have universal healthcare, and we’re getting fucked
Sweden’s population is very dense actually, common misconception with Scandinavia.
@@barnaby4232 Sweden's population isn't dense at all lmao, it's a very sparesly populated country.
@@marvelousmoostacheman5560 most of Sweden has nobody living there, where there is people there’s a lot of them, extremely urbanised, very little rural population.
I really enjoyed this interaction. Been following Sargon since 2016 and just started watching Destiny so to see the two just hanging out is a nice one
Sargon's entire argument about Trump's covid response is disproven by the Woodward recording, lol
Sargon still crying after June
Eh, seems like he's more focused on his personal business projects (which makes sense, given that their success or failure will decide the future of his career as a political/cultural commentator). I suspect people give these internet spats far more weight than is actually present in their minds.
@@MasteringJohn The energy and emotion he puts in his RobinHood tweeter account says otherwise, creationist cat has a funny video on it
Embarrassing
Destiny's characterization of June was accurate. She made tradcon pandering, generic anti-SJW content when it was popular and flipped a switch when Vaush got big. Same with Cunter Avallone, another spineless, money grubbing opportunist.
@@FTWorWTF That's just dumb theres still way more money on the right, hunter especially lost a lot of subscribers, a
nd therefore revenue.
Where is this arc leading up to?
Rightstiny
Centristiny
The same old thingstiny
@@Ronnie-mx1wu correctstany. Realworldstany.
Not quite mask off+hood on, but it's going somewhere where he will be way more flexible making things up so he can as aggressive as possible on lefties.
Point being, not good if he doesn't contain his anger, which he's known to be not in total control of.
@@nunya2445 Literally the entirety of the luxuries and freedoms you benefit from and the fact that you're not forcibly eating my ass under serfdom right now is due to progressive ideals fighting through and shaping society toward more liberty and kindness to the fellow human. So I don't know why you'd equate "The Right", especially the american brand of conservatism, to be "The Real World". Nothing could be further from the truth.
It's the only number they taught me 911 is actually useless
Recommendation: don’t check out Sargons comment section from this debate, it will make you cringe harder than is legally allowed.
I'm subscribed to both channels and enjoy both, if you think this comment section is somehow less cringe, you're far too deep into your echo chamber and only deluding yourself.
@@PitchBlackYeti How anyone can enjoy Sargon of Akkad is beyond me
@@PitchBlackYeti Correct...Internet Politics as a whole is cringe af....
As Destiny has talked about, it doesn't at all represent how most people think about politics
I.E.
Destiny: "I'm a progressive social democrat, in favor of more social programs, socialized health care, pro lgbt"
Online left: "Destiny is a BoOt LiCkInG LiBeRaL CaPiTalist sHill"
PitchBlackYeti never said that their aren’t weird people here? But that Sargon comment section is actually delusional. But I appreciate the fact that you already assume I’m in an echo chamber, you got that rather quick from one comment of mine.
Maxime A. Sargon seems like an idiot though.
Btw before you get mad at Destiny for not going nuclear on Sargon, the righties are being super charitable and nice to Destiny rn because they think he's on their side after his Rittenhouse takes. So Destiny is trying to be as persuasive as possible in his rhetoric.
I actually like him because he approaches honestly, compared to a lot of 'lefties'.
I don't follow many righties, mostly just sargon (though I more often than not feel his takes are tiresome), but I gotta say destiny is pretty on the money. I checked him out once before but after this stream I came over and watched a couple of his other conversations and I think he's an excellent conversationalist who actually fucking gets it. I don't remember which stream it was but when he told one guy that you have it distinguish between actual die-hard fascists and fascism enablers I was overjoyed.
I don't follow many righties, mostly just sargon (though I more often than not feel his takes are tiresome), but I gotta say destiny is pretty on the money. I checked him out once before but after this stream I came over and watched a couple of his other conversations and I think he's an excellent conversationalist who actually fucking gets it. I don't remember which stream it was but when he told one guy that you have it distinguish between actual die-hard fascists and fascism enablers I was overjoyed.
Extreme lefty here. It is indeed best to save going nuclear on people who actually can affect people's lives in a negative way.
If I am ever in a debate with Trump I will always go nuclear with him.
But people who defend Trump and people who run for government in UK but fucking fail because of a rape joke are not really worth going nuclear over.
Destiny and David Pakman are the two methods of arguing that are the best of the best.
Let the opponent play with the rope and then hang them with their own rope.
@John Toas you only make the smartest takes dude. good job
Its definitely interesting to see these guys having a friendly chat. I like both of these guys. I get tired of talks between the right and the right or the left and the left. The most memorable and entertaining discussions in my opinion are by people with opposing beliefs.
35:00 If you want to justify the government tracking every person you meet or are in contact with for this kind of disease, what are you willing to justify to end obesity and smoking? Those two are responsible for around 700k deaths every year. You could say those people had it coming, but aren't they victims of addiction, often starting their addiction as children? Those things are probably the reason why the US would be fucked even if you had a South Korean approach.
How fascist do you want to go?
35:00 There is something strange going on. How can the US have 3x more covid cases but 30x more deaths from covid when compared to South Korea? This has probably more to do with pre-existing health issues.
Lmfao Sargon literally was like "covid isnt a big deal look at the data," Destiny did, then Sargon goes "Well you can't trust the data"
Holy fuck
Keeps happening when I talk to people about Covid. They'll misunderstand the data they're reading, then when it doesn't say what they thought it said they'll claim it's corrupt data.
Hilarious to hear Sargon criticize the left for not reading.
"Universal Healthcare isn't perfect."
Listening to a man who was living in Germany for large parts of his youth and despite this experience is still claiming this is quite astounding to be perfectly honest.
Theyre both right. It was it's flaws, but it's also way better than the american system. The british model, however, is one of the worse examples.
@@veratikon7882 Exactly. Just because the American system is shite doesn't mean the British one is any good. It's not.
27:00 But the same can't be said about Trump not taking action when democrats were in Chinatown taking pictures? Double standards are so fun.
quite disappointed that neither Steve or Carl can explain why Korea or South East Asia were better at dealing with COVID than the US. But I'm not going to criticize both of you since you don't live in the culture of these East Asian countries. We lived thru wars and battles and deaths for thousands of years up until 40-50 years ago. We are way more susceptible to these kind of things, and we don't fck with the gov so combine all that we'd be more cautious about shit like COVID. Second important reason is that weather in most of the countries weren't as ideal for virus spreading as the US. The air is thick (humid), hot af, sweating, this plays a key role in spreading. The third reason is that most of the countries are not advanced like the US so most of us don't really live in closed door with AC ventilating system where scientists say the spread is way way more than outdoor. The economical or societal structure is smaller than the US too and it is easier for these countries to change or adapt to the situation than what the US can. Forth, the number of travelers to these countries are way less than the US. Take Vietnam for example, they can easily shutdown the airport and quarantine every single person, the cost over there is so cheap that they can afford that. The US? Good luck with that. The main problem why the US is shit with the COVID situation is that starting in early March, the US was no longer able to trace down where when and how a person got infected. Just like Taiwan or Korea, the US was able to manage this but unlike Taiwan and Korea who managed to continue doing so, the US turned to shit due to the traveler volume, and the fault is not only from Trump but from bunch of media, and Democrats who downplayed the danger through out Jan and Feb. The Asian community was already scared af and didn't really celebrate our biggest holiday (Lunar New Year) in late Jan. Pretty much all other communities were like fck it we dont give a shit.
8:48 Wait, what is Aleppo?
Old meme. 😈
I miss gary Johnson
what's an aleppo
@@Totherphoenix did we ever find out what a leppo was??
@@alexjaybrady in the bible
Sargon is utterly deluded when he gives his take on the EU’s negotiating tactics. They haven’t changed, they have been consistent the entire time.
Gosh VDS is dangerous.
@Blue Crusader :D
what is VDS?
@Blue Crusader :O How would you do that?
@@shadysides9094 Hmm I dunno if I should tell a CIA agent this...but it's "Vaush Derangement Syndrome." Similar to the ADD, After Debating Destiny, symptom "Destiny Support Group" it's quite crippling and no cure is in sight.
WidePeepoHappy the agency thanks you for your cooperation.
it must suck being british
Destiny is wrong about the EU army. Even just a quick wiki search lists plenty of sources that show keen interest from numerous member states and important figures in the EU. They're not quite there yet, but what was unthinkable a decade or two ago is a very real option now. I think Destiny may have fell for some bad sources or something, because he seemed completely certain that there was no such thing while in reality it is discussed all the time and interest in an EU military is far greater than it once was.
I knew Sargon has gotten more right wing since last time Destiny spoke to him, but sheesh... he's just a conservative talking head now. Sargon mind as welll go on Prager U with all of his Dishonesty.
He really hasn't.
Has he not basically always been that?
Mind as well 🤣
@@majdjinn5042 Didn't he do a political compass test since speaking to Destiny - it showed that he has moved further to the right.
In fact every test he's taken so far shows he keeps moving to the right.
@@bganonimouse2754
If that's true then I'll retract (not literally but with this comment) my statement
...unless they mean he's right wing already and becoming more so.
I really liked this vid. It was a good sensible chat.
I love how “a sensible chat” far surpasses our expectations in online politics
1:25:00 THIS right here is the MOST POWERFUL part of the entire discussions! In terms of the world view and difference between Liberals and Conservatives, it all comes down to this: What is the governments role in our society? Both Sargon and Destiny defended their position perfectly but this will ALWAYS be the fundamental area they clash and have to agree to disagree...
Great vid btw.
Sargon is full of shit when it comes to the NHS. If it wasn't for the NHS I'd probably be dead twice over and hundreds of thousands of pounds in debt. The US system is horrific to even contemplate.
Sargon is so fucking wrong in the UK's COVID-19 data. He keeps bringing up this interview with Dominic Raab as the smoking gun which it really isn't.
Remember when Destiny argued for deplatforming people like Sargon?
Sargon is spewing proper government talking points about how well they're doing: "These tests have a 93% false positive rate." "The number of deaths are inflated." This is all bullshit. This is a government hiding its tracks.
Darkfeign if you have evidence of that I’ll 100% agree with you, if it’s just conjecture please stop spreading misinformation for literally no reason. Not saying it is but im asking
Sargon: 'It may be a democracy, but South Korea can take rights away on a whim.'
.
..
...
Me: _looks at our southern border menacingly_
I might be dumb but I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
@@Localpref416 it doesn't matter what country's government you reside under. Rights can go away in a second for little to no justification. Sargon said what he said like SK is some authoritarian idealogical government like Russia (also democratic) in which Putin or whoever can act however they want. Sargon neglects to think and just feels something is the way it is as an objective reasoning when it's genereally the opposite.
Reticulus Really? Maybe you can make that argument on an individual level, IE police brutality, or false imprisonment.
But when the lockdowns started a lot of people were protesting and what not. And same with the recent BLM riots. How often do things of that scale happen in South Korea?
Or are you just saying rights are a zero sum game because you could lose them in an instant. Unless you have a purely Anarcho-x society. But that’d be a pretty pessimistic.
Illegal immigrants have less rights than citizens in any country.
You are not entitled to enter a country and ecpect welcome with open arms.
@@GG-fi4ye 3 words: japanese concentration camps
Sargon is the dumbest political commentator on the platform, don’t @ me..
Carl you're tarnishing the name of Sargon of Akkad, your name is Carl.
Didn't Sargon ("Robin Hood") retweet Fuentes' fearmongering about "the Great Replacement" myth?
You don't need his sock puppet for evidence, he said it himself
drive.google.com/file/d/1jogiahypfU7KqEZs04pdsQsFFWOXuPsl/view
This video has reminded me how dumb Sargon is, it’s been a while.
@@scenopiachannel eh sargon gets a fair bit wrong. I'd say that he's philosophically relatively well read but he does a shit job of anything related to reality because he never truly digs into things and too often takes headlines/articles on good faith without looking at the actual available evidence or what they're using to support their claims, which is where his very boomer views come from. I don't think he's intellectually terrible but he does poorly in the non purely abstract realm (ironic considering he critiques this). He's as far from an empiricist as you could get really.
"I dont want to ruin society" "I dont want to die"
We finally got to the Axiomatic Values boys.
I live in a country with socialized healthcare and three years ago I came down with cancer. My surgery was scheduled for exactly one week from my diagnosis.
@John Toas I pay my taxes, so not only do I deserve it, but I am entitled to it. I hope you have fun living in your little world where you don't deserve to live a healthy life though.
@John Toas That's not how taxes work, or how anything works for that matter. But not having access to the same protections and rights as the rest of the developed world must be tough so I forgive you for that discrepancy
@John Toas Yeah whatever you say, Ayn Rand. Enjoy your medical bills. You deserve them.
Scandinavian countries are better at utilising tax money especially with healthcare compared to a country like the UK. The NHS is in shambles.
You are infringing on my right to transmit Coronavirus.
Destiny shit the bed in this...he sometimes can’t see past his lefty bias.
Even the conservative conversations are getting boring with this whole "the left is mean" arc
destiny's realist foreign policy takes are on usually on point. you should try speak to John J Mearsheimer or Robert D Kaplan and talk about China/Asia
Man I wanna speak to destiny abt foreign policy takes. I'm studying for this and my focus is literally China.
@@HeavyMetalorRockfan9 get onnnn it
Sargon: “More people are dying from the flu than covid.”
Destiny “How many die from the flu?”
Sargon “Woops, I don’t know let me look that up!”
He should of just stuck to bullying creationist cause he really can’t reach any higher than low hanging fruit. How I ever thought this guy was the pinnacle of rational thought on TH-cam a decade ago is beyond me.
decade ago? i dont think we're that far removed from the anti sjw era yet lmao
David Barnes
It was back when I was personally going through my own edgy atheist teen phase. Characters like him, Darkmatter64, Thunderfoot, The Amazing Atheist were predominate personalities of the skeptic community that spent most their time pointing out the blatantly obvious fallacies and historic inaccuracies regarding creationist myths. He wasn’t super popular then but he had a following. Dropped him like a rock though when he started peddling conspiracies about Muslims trying to take over America.
@@MorbidSlinky That was about 6 years ago
lifesentence
Ended it a little after I stoped watching his videos and I went on to gather a greater appreciation for the diversity of sects, denomination, and the varying levels of conviction followers maintain. Still an agnostic atheist but I’ve learned to stop rolling my eyes when someone says, “Bless you.”
Joseph K
Was it? Could’ve sworn it I was a freshman in high school then. At the very least it had to of been 8 years if I’m remembering correctly.
can't fucking listen to carl when he "hang on hang on hang on"s
The positive Brexit spin has aged soooo badly!
Ah like it's fine Destiny having chill debates to get the radical centrists to come over and I know he pushed back often here
But he let Sargon just spout pure conspiracy and lies when Sargon got going, particularly regarding the NHS and immigrants. And Destiny knows he's wrong here but it's just so infuriating watching him let Sargon go off.
17:42 lol
Destiny is really taking this breakup badly
Sargon and destiny: talk about shit in a calm manner
Comment section: BLOOD BRING US BLOOD NOT WORDS.
you guys need to chill the fuck out.
Sargon: I don't know much about New York politics but let me tell you why Cuomo let old people die
Also Sargon: It is like the flu Britain is awesome we should have taken the Swedish module
If you don't know what you are talking about don't act like you do
Destiny was right , these conversations are boring, what is the point in talking to a potted plant about what it believes is wrong with rioting. The only question I’m curious about is whether a world where Sargons thoughts are relevant is worth defending anymore.
25:27 What unit does the UK use for angles? I'm curious about this "100 degree reversal".
What a patriot, everytime Destiny said something good about UK, Sargon goes "it is not working because immigrants". Well, as Destiny said it is not perfect it is a step in the right direction. Jeeee
M
No, it depends on what kind of immigrants we are talking about. Highly skilled and educated immigrants are not the problem. Fact is that they make up a substantial part of the work force and without them UKs health system would be worse off..
Globalist lol... well have fun with ur simplistic world view... Also skilled workers is needed no matter nationality.. they are rare.. but I guess you know better then me, who is an actual health care worker...
God i wish these right wingers could have some self respect, you aren't converting him, stop embarrassing yourself. Maybe its my bias as a fan, but i feel like his political stances are still very obvious.
@John Toas everyone right of communism is right wing lol
Funny how the skeptics rejected god but turned trump into their god-king. Such a strange twist
That's not really how it works.
StopAsking ForRealNames Worship is worship. Seems like they bend over backwards to defend trump, which doesn’t seem very skeptical to me