My advice would always be to pull for the 5* you like, you have to use these characters for more than abyss. Pulling just for abyss but not even liking the character seems a waste ultimately. I'd also say dont be fussy with 4* if they benefit the characters you like. Think of them as purely tools to enhance. For example I can't stand Bennett, but I really like Ganyu, Ningguang and Dehya, so I built him to benefit them.
The last several Abyss cycles clearly demonstrated the power of horizontal investment. I noticed those that struggled the most were all-in on their main teams with no backup options. Often the easiest way to 36 star those cycles for F2P is to individually target chambers with specific tools, which inherently benefits those with multiple teams and silver bullets available. 3.7 Abyss I literally had 6 different teams for floor 12, as each chamber wanted different tools. Is it meta to build Jean, Sayu, Baizhu when you already have Kaz/Venti/Sucrose and Nahida? Probably not, but I'm glad I did because they sure came in handy to get the clear!
I chose the best of both worlds: heavily invested c4+mist Ayaka (mona diona kazoo) on the first half, c1 tao with homa (xq nahida john) second half. Was very comfortable to clear on the first try unlike nahida national i tried before and got frozen then oneshotted over and over. Welkin only.
The Supreme Leaders have spoken .You will make a zyox genshin court. You will and have to make one. Its Furina's will. Back to the topic , my account is more of a horizontal invested since more comps means more fun for me and have full coverage for all archetype which pretty much helps me to clear any type of content. But yeah the main problem is that you have to focus on multiple different characters meaning more resin needed.
I'm sick of horizontal investment tbh. I just summoned so many characters, that now 80% of them are benched (unable to clear the abyss with even decent artifacts), while mainly clearing the abyss with c6 Nahida and c2 Raiden. People like Zajef just like to push the idea of "Oh, more characters are always better bla bla bla" but who cares? I can't even build them enough because of the lack of resin and not caring about them that much in terms of lore, so I might as well just get cons for the characters I truly like (which also change their playstyle, like Xiao C6 or Nilou C6). I prefer having fewer characters that are giga buffed instead of 100 characters that are all mid at best when you invest into them. Plus, if I ever get bored or feel that I have too much power I can just back down, and instead of going for things like constellations, I can go for newer shinier units.
I used to do horizontal but then found myself always gravitating towards my older characters and benching my new ones and that felt pretty bad. Been going vertical ever since and am having a blast making my favorites really strong
eh not really. Both types require you to actually pull some decent units eventually and when you stick to the meta of dendro and national horizontal investment can clear easy. No one said you needed to horizontally invest into dog shit. C0 dendro teams clap ass for example.
I happened to have mistsplitter and I happened to have a very good Gilded dreams set, so I built my Keqing. I choose what characters to raise based on what artifacts I have. I got a fantastic wanderers troupe set and I have skyward harp so I built Tighnari etc.
Im furious flip. Countless new vids over a short duration but none of them is the holy grail we seek which is the ZyOx genshin court. At least you mentioned ZyOx in this vid so ill have mercy on you this time. But if this happens again,im going to play physical fischl for the rest of 4.X patches.
The problem is abyss is a mini game like fishing or tcg with a gimmick. That it provides a challenge to pit your teams against and the issue comes when the vertical investment goes beyond a point where it makes abyss gimmick redundant, I believe 33 star abyss and occasionally 36 stars with every time is more fun than good timed 36 stars every time. That's the fun of this minigame of being challenged and every abyss gives different characters chance to perform and enjoy different teams, which is redundant when you have big pp numbers and no challenge or thought is left to abyss which is a minigame about providing you that only.
Being what we called a one trick pony in almost every competitive game i played i directly went into vertical investment, i pulled probably more ganyu than any other 5 stars characters combined at the release of sumeru (since i c6'd her while being only on welkin and battlepass) i have very few temporary 5 stars character for a day one players but almost all of them have constellations (raiden and yae c2 (my main goal now is to c6 yae at next rerun) nahida hu tao shenhe c1 etc.) and even then i have some pull i regret like Eula that is benched since almost day one genshin is such a game that having 100+ characters mean nothing since u'll bench atleast half of them if not more i'd say at first find what you like playing, pull enough to maybe have 4 teams available and from now on, build them and invest in them edit : dont sleep on 4 stars characters, some are amazing and will help you toward your goals since u'll naturally pull them when trying to get your favorite 5 star
The thing I am worried about is the more I vertical invest the more the abyss becomes redundant as genshin is a static difficulty, and getting Nahida to C2 will make no gameplay changes but numbers only and if I love chongyun and can play him then 33 stars with him is good enough for me as I will be pushed to my limits to even get that with only decent investment. Abyss is like tcg or fishing in genshin with a gimmick of providing mental stimulation and temporary challenge, which I will be stripping of by vertical investment.
Vertical investing is maybe more a late game thing. In the beginning you are too excited to get new characters and a bigger roster to choose from. And you won’t really even know who’s worth the effort unless you play with many different characters. But at some point you have more characters than you can use. And you know who you like. That’s when you start to specialise. I’ve played GI so long I basically have all the characters I like and most of them with decent builds. (Favourites even ridiculously so with triple crowns & lvl 90.) So now it’s more adding things on top of that. On reruns I pull for constellation or the BIS weapon. As a Welkin player it still feels weird to go for cons/weapon banner, but it’s better. No hassle to build someone knew and I’m sure my primos aren’t wasted on someone I won’t use. Maybe getting a bit too lazy… new character has to really make me want them for me to bother with building them
The only people who say they hate hyperbloom are the ones who vertically invested a lot into their characters and they saw hyperbloom doing the same amount of damage but with a fraction of the effort
I'm vertically investing as a dual Kaeya and Venti main. I've got like three or four good teams, and I have the resources to build up some of my neglected units if I need to because I haven't wasted resources trying to build everyone to a mediocre level instead of only building a few to high level. Do what you feel is good for you and your play style!
As a new player id rather sacrifice 300 primos and being able to clear up to floor 10 end enjoy the freedom to have different options is actually enough for me for the moment im a horizontal investment enjoyer. well credit to keqing she carried me hard i can't bench her cuz I am the storm that is approaching.
Do not bench Keqing later. Aggravate Keqing is very efficient and fun, it's my most played team since dendro release. Keqing basically benched my Yae, Ayaka, and many other so-called premium units.
@@christopheantoine5472 Yeah I agree I can't bench her. She's perfect, fun, she best waifu, dps, team driver, fast, teleportation, evrrything. I'm sold.
I personally think that "build your account right" only exists because you want to clear Abyss. for players who dont want to touch abyss at all, you can play Genshin however you want
The Abyss itself only got difficulty spikes at 12F. 11F and below can be cleared full star even with mediocre team, not well-built artifact, and such as long you did what the game wants to fulfill character build (Talent levels, Weapons, etc)... A lot of features from Genshin basically got difficulty spikes, from how it's longer to ascend lv 70-90 than lv 1-70, why Talent lv 9-10 is way longer than lv 1-8, and Spiral Abyss 11F to 12F. The highest goal is just flexing but the lower objectives should be able to clear for free Primos below the standard checkpoint...
In a sense, I'm gonna agree with your thesis, since there's a point that horizontally investing may not be interesting. And about EM Raiden, what I can say is that in times like this I wish there was artifact loadouts, since changing artifacts for different builds is annoying.
I just keep her other set on Razor since I'd never need to use EM Razor and EM Raiden at the same time (to many shared team members) and if I use Razor at all it is on a full EM build. Still, loadouts would be nice.
Been playing since 2.7, and now that I have two solid comps for abyss I’m now pulling for cons and weapons, occasionally going for new characters as I’ve already got a good amount of artifact sets which I can switch around as well as weapons :)
There are some problems of both versions of investments. The rate of progress for vertical investment plateaus the more you do it, making it feel like you aren't improving and that takes a toll on the mental and discourages vertically investing in the long term. Horizontal investment feels like you are making progress and increases character comp diversity but often its not up to scratch to your mainline strong team until you vertically invest for them, so the downside is that they are often underpowered to be viable for floor 12. The true answer is to do both, so Diagonal investment. Its fun and lets me do stupid things like Dendro DPS Yao Yao or Aggravate DPS Dori, and I would've done Nymph Set Hydro DPS Candace if not for her HP scaling.
This statement is only sorta true if the person doesn’t horizontally invest into the meta. You DO NOT need to upgrade some of the bloom teams and national teams. Their baseline floor is pooping on abyss.
@@wilburforce8046 I do not necessarily agree. Only vertically investing is not always viable due to abyss meta shifting, either because some team setups just are dysfunctional due to the specific boss or enemy sets in the floor, or there is a better way in terms of ease or speed. One example of a major meta shift is 3.0, Dendro and Sumeru's release. Many people horizontally shifted to a different team composition due to the fact that Dendro changed the meta very hard. A specific example for this abyss is the advent of the Nahida National, which works very well for all enemies in the 2nd half of all chambers in floor 12 so people who haven't used Nahida National would horizontally invest into that team, however if you are using that comp in a regular floor of abyss you would find it to be dysfunctional, so it requires you to horizontally invest or shift into another team setup either way for a different set of abyss enemies. Also Bloom and National teams do still need upgrades in vertical investment, 1 because there is no hard baseline for abyss, its simply a dps check (which can shift wildly depending on the combination of their artifacts and skill check) and 2 because it allows you to have more ease and speed in abyss regardless which is a good thing to always have.
@@PowerOfTheAsian you need to elaborate bruh when is Nahida ever not an easy clear with four star supports. When is National not an easy clear with c0 five stars like kazu and childe paired with four stars. Like what do you mean you need vertical investment. And no my Nahida four star team that worked last abyss still worked this abyss cause Kuki shinobu goes fuckin brrr. Show me Nahida HB or c0 NB not clearing. Simply having characters is enough for dendro to clap always and as far as I can tell, forever. (Not even sure what weird team comp you were talking about there earlier that couldn’t be modulated with diffrent four stars to handle different content) National is just as easy slap on kazu Raiden childe ayato etc on your Bennet XL core. C0 five star easy clear.
@@wilburforce8046 You misunderstood. I did not mean Nahida itself, but her specific team composition of Bennett Nahida Xingqiu Xiangling, Nahida National. The team had very high usage due to the fact that it was very good on 2nd half of the past few abyss cycles with the Thundering Manifestation, Cryo/Hydro Herald Tag Team, and so on. Once you take it out of that enemy set is where the dysfunctionality of the team composition shows. Sure, National and its variants are strong and reliable, but it does not mean that you shouldn't vertically invest in them regardless or that it is inherently less valuable. Why stay on 60/120 total Crit Rate/Crit DMG Xiangling that, sure, has been working for the past few abyss when you can vertically invest that to be more like 70/140 as many recommend or even higher, such as 80/150~160. Just because its strong doesn't mean you can get away with not touching or improving upon it.
@@PowerOfTheAsian 1. Nobody uses Nahida national outside of that abyss there’s this thing called adapting your teams which is in fact easier with horizontal investment. Just play around with your four stars that comp isn’t a real thing. HB is. NB is a well. 2. Bro my xiangling isn’t even as good as your example of a meh xiangling and I’ve been clapping abyss with mono Pyro Deyha. Like cmon national *is* that easy to clear with. I did Collei national with my meh xiangling for crying out loud. And I’m not some giga gamer pro or anything. So yes I do get away with not improving it lol. Vertically invest if you really want because at the end of the day playing good teams Is playing good teams. But I am living proof that horizontal investment never dies. I build nearly everyone c0 five star with decently build supports. And I’ve been clapping abyss for ages now comfortably because the good teams just never stop shining. (My meh teams obviously struggle though lol. Geo traveler ain’t too hot as it turns out) Certain c0 limited banner teams just have such a high floor that this whole debate is a bit meaningless.
I always think that middleground is the best and the most healthy. I was doing a bit of vertical for one team, then I got to the place that felt nice for my AR and I could do a bit more of horizontal. Test some teams, get new characters, have some fun, test some dumb teams for giggles... And when I was done with that I did another ascend and went vertical again. I could switch my main team a bit at this point (or a lot), include new characters, or just replace the ones I didn't enjoy anymore. I recently got to WL8 and now I am pushing my main team up again. I changed from Ayaka freeze to Xiao, 'cause for some reason I neglected him, even though I love playing him. So I'd say that the type of growth You need depends on your account. Sometimes You need horizontal to expand your roster just because You have nothing to build on and sometimes You need to focus on vertical for that one team You want/need. And after that You go back to vertical to switch some things up or get that new 5* that caught your eye.
Imo the best way to invest if u want to clear spiral abyss is do vertical investment first. Then,do horizontal investment to avoid repetetive gameplay.
Alright so picking two 5 stars on field dps or two specific team comps maybe like a quick swap or something like mono geo. So pick two and vertical investment into them a good bit. Example with Hu tao maybe getting c1 and homa or at homa and grabbing Yelan for another 5 star is a pretty good vertical investment for Hu tao then the other two slots is Xingqiu and either Zhongli or another shielder or Xiangling. Then another team could be Ei with either hypercarry or aggravate with Fishel, Bennett or nahida, and Kazuha or sucrose depending on what team your going for. I know Sara is somewhat better for hypercarry at c6 and a c2 with EL Ei,but Fishel just adds more on field damage. So with these teams especially if im giving Ei both teams i should be able to clear abyss pretty damn well especially if i pull c2 Nahida as well. But that would be a small bonus.... if we're not talking about the def shred she gives to enemies affected by quicken,aggrvate, and spread. Plus Ei's own def ignore. Which is my plan since I love the two Hu tao being my favorite pyro, and Ei being my second favorite electro after Fishel
Yea vertical investment can be great for abyss, but it can also be hilarious sometimes, one of my friends doesn't believe that i really 36 stared ANY abyss with itto and razor as the on fielder's for each team. I have been doing it since nahida came out and i will get even more itto cons because I love his playstyle.
@@FliponYT Bruh, unless you’re playing Dehya, 36 starring with two well invested teams isn’t something that people should ever be that surprised about.
@@phoenixlau I know but I think it'd be funnier if I didn't show him that and keep him thinking that I used a better team like national or something when I really didn't.
Ppl also tend to leave out the fact that you need to spend more resources and resin to build these new characters. Plus if you were to pull for someone like ayaka, you'd need to spend more primos for her BIS 5 star supports(shen he/kokomi/kazuha). That's like spending 3 extra gold pulls and this is not even including mist splitter. Not to mention, you'd need to pull on 3 more separate banners. You cant even get all the pieces in one go.
Ayaka tends to be a vertically invested unit cause she’s sorta meehhhh at c0 Don’t always assume people will horizontally invest into dogshit. What if they want all the different dendro teams and national teams. (They can call clear abyss easy) As for the leveling part. Nah. You need to pick up *too* many units for that to be a problem. If your so poor you can’t build two abyss teams that’s no longer a matter of vertical and horizontal.
@@wilburforce8046 We're talking about the effectiveness for each 5 star pull. For example if you already have 2 teams down, hutao double hydro and international, there's no point in pulling horizontally for units like nilou, ayaka or raiden. It makes a lot more sense to pull for weapons or const at that point. I can say I want to pull for every dendro related unit, it doesnt mean that's the most effective choice but is still something you can go for personally. As for your second point, yes it is wasted resources if you're building up a completely new team or dps from scratch for a team that does c0 levels of damage. That's not even accounting for resin needed for artifact farming. You would might as well spend the primos on constellations or BIS weapons and to get more damage for your existing team. But of course if you already have the investment to 36 star easily than you can pull for whatever you want. Its just not cost effective overall to pull for whatever new shiny 5 star that doesnt improve on the current team you've already invested in.
@@glorn6758 but why does this talk of cost effective matter when dendro teams all clap abyss at c0 with four stars. Like bruh. Horizontal investment insures you don’t get countered by abyss like this recent one while also coming with zero risk as long as you know what the low investment meta is. (It’s impossible to lose with Nahida dendro teams at c0) reaching this point you speak of where you can always clear abyss is easily accomplished with horizontal investment. Not saying Vertical is bad or anything but when is it ever better seriously. When does an account with the dendro and national roster lose cause they didn’t get a five star weapon or cons. Horizontal comes with zero risks when you simply pick good teams to play. Core support units like Nahida kazu also show up in so many teams anyway that simply having them is enough to guarantee blindfolded clears. I just don’t see why you would need to care about cost effectiveness when this games “meta” is all about clapping abyss as cheaply and and as easily as possible. also for some people clearing with other teams is just fun. I mean sure don’t go buying a Eula and then an Itto and then run out of books building their niche supports. But if you go Nilou ayato cjilde and slap them on support template teams you already had cause they were the meta regardless of vertical or horizontal, your just fine.
@@wilburforce8046 Thats whole point of account building is to make the most out of your pulls to benefit the teams you are cuurently playing. If you're making horizontal pulls when your main teams are lacking damage to 36 star, that isnt gonna help at you at all. Also you're still gonna need constellations on most of the 4 stars if you want c0 clears and that takes time to build up from pulling. Even the artifact investment required will be a lot steeper without any constellations or 5 star weapons. There're only some teams that can get countered hard like wanderer against wenut but you can always just play them on the other half. Even mono geo can be played top side from the previous abyss. Also im not talking bout meta here so I dont get why you gotta bring up low investment meta thats not the point of discussion. Im talking bout making the best pulls for the 2 teams you're interested in playing. The meta should only revolve around the stuff you wanna play at the end of the day. National still needs 4 star consts to get good clears. Not saying its impossible but alot harder. The same goes for hyperbloom if thats what dendro you're referring to. And what makes you think that everyone wants to play these 2 of teams? Yeah be a meta slave great. Surely everybody that plays genshin only plays these 2 teams. Also im not saying to skip nahida and kaz, pull them if your teams needs them if not its not the end of the world to skip. Not every team uses kazuha and nahida as it turns out. Im not saying to not play other characters at all. Im saying investing vertically to a certain extent for the teams you see yourself playing most often is gonna benefit the account a lot more than pulling for whatever new 5 star that doesnt even work with your current teams and it pretty much becomes a dead pull at that point. As this video also suggested, 5 star weapons are transferable too and it straight up gives you more damage than farming your ass for that one crit stat or whatever artifact bullshit. Its also not wrong to pull for eula and itto if these are the teams you're interested in. Just look out for their supports, that's kinda it really. You cant just slap nilou ayato childe in any team and expect them to work lol. Dafuck you on about. Nilou is only really worth getting for bloom which limits you to a couple dendro/hydro units, ayato works in a lot of teams but is never the best choice so why go out of your way to pull him specifically, childe only works with xiangling if you dont plan on playing her, he's essentially a dead pull.
@@glorn6758 holy marry mother of strawman. No offense but are you dumb? You keep assuming people who horizontally invest just fail to do the bare minimum with c0 five stars and cons for their four stars. You do realize horizontal investment can easily cover meh to decent artifacts and cons on your supports right? What exactly is your definition of horizontal investment bruh. Just being an idiot with your account? Please get back to me when you have a point becuase my account is the literal definition of smart horizontal investment (not to toot my own horn) built the right c6 supports, meh to okayge artifacts, and I know what teams are good. Like what are you even on about assuming horizontal investors keep their artifacts at 4 and their xiangling cons at 1. Are you kidding me? I’ve cleared with nearly every decent team last abyss (the hardest one to many) didn’t need five star cons and weapon refinements. What I did need was the bare minimum which is covered by horizontal investment. (Bro everyone gets cons on units like Xingqiu why did you even pretend that wasn’t going to happen based on this argument) You call me a meta slave yet also assume I’m a complete retard for not knowing how to build Nilou bloom with a bunch of free four stars. Like cmon bruh. There’s pull value in this game and only the dumbest most strawman version of horizontal investors will ever struggle with abyss. (That goes for verticale too btw, if your dumb about how you build your teams you won’t clear regardless of which investment path you chose) But vertical investment to many simply isn’t worth it when the meta floor of this game (shitting on abyss) is covered by smart horizontal investment where people actually complete their units okayge build before moving on.
I dont like vertical investment (cons, 5* weapons) because I can already get 33-35 stars without any 5 star weapons or any constellations on my 5 star. I'd rather have more characters to play rather than spend my primos for 5 star weapons and constellations for just 100 primos every abyss rotation.
Unfortunately I have reached the point where vertical investment isn't even worth it anymore. I can clear abyss without any issue no matter the difficulty. BUT, if you're a new player, do vertically invest. Go for that 200CV+ build on your main dps, go for some weapon banners, get your talents and levels up. It's ultimately what brought me to not needing to do it anymore and being able to play the game comfortably
Lets be real. - First year you invest in new characters. Second year you start vertical investment cos its better than artifact farming and its annoyng building new chars from the scratch. - Abyss i srelevant to meta slaves like us. We will pull Nahida, We will pull Raiden and few others. I in fact didnt pull Yelan cos she is annoyng show off. - we dont know if we will play much more cos Withering waves and few others may emerge and GI - finally we will play new chars until we get 10 friendship and then we will bench them XDD
Sure i can have 50 characters but so what, i wont like them equally as much and so I'll pick my favourites and end up with like 10 up to maybe 20 characters at most from which probably half are supports/flex picks, and damn it does feel so good to be childe/hu tao enjoyer, I managed to do every single abyss with no exceptions with international and some variant of hu tao team, i tried pulling for some for fun units like cyno but i ended up benching him almost immediately, i still think he's fun but imo childe and hu tao are just more fun so i why would i use cyno instead? With childe because he's hydro i can run him in almost every team archetype if i want to, like this abyss is incredibly fun to run freeze childe for example and on next banner im going for his C1, even if its just 2 more seconds of fieldtime that's already amazing for teams like hyperbloom or freeze, my end goal is to go for his C4 because its going to make him even more fun and you cant stop me haha
Your guide is good and comprehensive. The only reason I want to clear the abyss is so I can pull for more character. I’m a collector mindset so I want to have all the character which is a struggle in itself. 😅
I'm still glad to have invested so much into my childe because I've been playing him since day 1 of his banner back in 1.1 and still haven't gotten bored of him.
Once I vertically invested the game went from ok to awesome. Nothing is more enjoyable then actually using the characters I want. You get more teams either way you invest it's just do you want more teams with characters you care about or more teams with characters you don't give a fuck about. You can also do what you want I took my c6 r5 ayaka thru abyss without using her burst because I didn't fucking feel like it lol. The main thing is it's no longer what genshin wants me to do it's what I'm going to fucking do now and it's fantastic.
Yeah I primarily do vertical investments so I got my C0 Kazuha, Kokomi, Zhongli and Nahida as the base of my account then I have a C3 Raiden and C6 Yelan and that's it for my limited 5 stars. Luckily for me Raiden and Yelan are my favs but just become DPS monsters with their cons. Currently have 305 F2P plus welkin wishes saved for my next C6 project but I am gonna continue to save for a fontaine character I like. I have thought about C6 Nahida next time she reruns but I just don't enjoy dendro that much.
Oh I also only have 2 limited five star weapons; engulfing lighting and Aqua Simulacra both R1. I have only gone into the weapon banner twice and was lucky af to get Raiden and Yelan's weapons first try.
100% agree. That just makes logical sense in any game you have to build up a character/team. If you have 4 well built characters and only need 4 you'll do well but if you have 12 eh characters it will be harder to do well.
I have an addition to the human aspect: what if getting bad stat rolls on the arts (which I presume happens more on vertical) is what is giving you the f-cking burnout
Just like every other Flip video, this is a great video: informative and extremely useful for newer players. I agree that vertical investment is quite often disregarded by players and content creators alike, when it’s not just a whales’ thing, and I do agree a lot of people don’t know how to play properly, but you did make a mistake during this video: I actually managed to get a wife, cheating every genshin player golden rule. so someone actually want me in real life. However… That doesn’t mean I won’t try my best to steal the title of #1 Furina husbando from you.
Once I i get Kokomi, ill finally have every one of the characters i like and wanted, so after over 2 years from now I'll probably start saving for weapons and cons, and pull for the new characters I'm interested in (ahem Navia) in the middle. I dont really need the vertical level of investment since I've been able to 36 star every abyss for 1.5 years except the first cycle of 3.7 since i wasn't home and had to play in mobile, but it'll probably be fun seeing my Nilou obliterate the enemies in 0.7 seconds instead of 2 whole seconds
Great video flip at least you addressed that good artifact quality can be obtained overtime + strongbox for free without whaling neccessairly. When you have theorycrafters doing account reviews they literally get triggered by people's artifact quality just because its higher than poverty investmentstandards. But the reality is their standards are so low but that it's generally good enough on specific characters like xiangling 60/120 ratio with atk% elemental mastery/ sufficient energy recharge sub stats here and there. Like even though I saved up for characters like Cyno. Alhaitham. Yae. Ayaka with the gems I've accumulated from dailies abyss 36 star from the last 3 years of playing this game. I've essentially just used prior to aggrevate keqing a Electrocharge keqing with Hu tao xinqiu elegy amber + succrose or Zhongli + mona since I don't even own yelan every cycle because that's what I found fun./like aeshetically Like I didn't even want yae or yoimiya it just so happened I managed to get them and not get a c4 kirara (hardstuck at c3) so I can replace my dipshit yaoyao/dendro traveler. for my aggrevate keqing team.
I agree with this for the most part but it’s not what I have done. I’ve pulled for the dp’s that I want which are itto, wanderer, raiden, kequing, child which tbh isn’t a ton. But now I have invested so much into them artifact wise, talents, and levels that now I’m just gonna start pulling 5 star weapons for everyone cause I don’t have much more to do atm.
I think a mix of both is the thing that will yield you the most in term of both damage and long term satisfaction. Because you want characters who are strong but you also want to have variety in team building. So for example saving up for a nahida c2 or some of the other impactful early cons, these are usually the ones that somehow benefit everyone on the team . When you get a couple of them your clear times will become faster which will make running conventionally weaker characters more viable and your favorite character might be one of them. Let's say for the sake of argument you are the most diehard chongyun main there is , if you have a clear time of 1 minute instead of 1 30 on first half because of the vertical inestment of some characters it will become way more possible to clear with him. You generally will find more problems if you skew to either extremes too much. I forgot who said the quote but everything in moderation even moderation. TL;DR - Get some cracked characters at first and maybe some of their early cons so you become more free to do whatever you want rather then what the game wants you to do.
Comment after i watched the video . Surprisingly I agree with most ur takes . Yeah sometimes u might find fun in getting some couple cons on a character like nahida raiden kazuha yelan , especially flexible characters that get used in most teams , thus improving most of ur teams that uses those unites . And u also might find fun in getting new unites that open up new team archetypes . Over all It depends on the person , most people go in the middle and hard invest on unites they like while also getting new unites they are interested in . The only think I disagree with is saying getting nahida for ur Em raiden is the best vertical investment . Hyperbloom is very horizontal team archetype, the more invested ur unite is the less u benefit from hyperbloom . That is why most whales use quickbloom because it scales better with investment .
quickbloom is not better or worst than hyperbloom ? it just mean you are not having enough bloom and more quicken, whales do hyperbloom cause they have yelan c2 and nahida c2, hyperbloom not scaling verticaly is a joke...
@@Theninja974 I don’t know what rock u have been living under . But whales have c6 characters with signature weapons . Hyperbloom even with nahida c2 is not a vertically investment heavy team . It scales the worst out of any archetype whale wise . Quicken is more beneficial to whales because it scales with crit states and cons and signature weapons the most . Hyperbloom is mainly a f2p tool that is very broken with its high floor , not just whales even small spenders or welkin players that have vertically invested team like for example c2 wanderer with c6 faruzan or c3 raiden with c6 Sara , ayaka c2 with mist and shenhe . Hyperbloom just falls behind since it doesn’t scale with crit states and c2 nahida isn’t enough to make it compete with most vertically invested teams .
@@amvbro7033 Have you read my answer or do you just want to be right ? How can you do Quickbloom when your Yelan is C2 or above and she's going to proc way more bloom than you can proc quicken ? I may be living under a rock but I do know how to read the constelation of the character in the game... Quickbloom is more for f2p than for whales, and I never said that Quicken is less beneficial for whale, we were talking about Quickbloom and Hyperbloom. When you have a quickbloom team you're losing on the hyperbloom dmg or the Quicken dmg.... (the crit and atk stats are useless for hyperbloom as you said it yourself....) "Hyperbloom even with nahida c2 is not a vertically investment heavy team" I mean Nahida c2, her weapon, Freedom sworn, Yelan c2, her weapon... That 4 constelation and 3 Weapon for a team, Yes the floor for hyperbloom is high but the ceiling isn't as low as you think. (even if its lower than the other reaction) (and we can even go in the Nilou bloom team where this scale even better with vertical investment...) Yes Cyno is fine in Quickbloom but if you invest in him and go for a c6 r5 then just play him in Aggravate? it's going to be better the hyperbloom are not going to do a lot of dmg as the cyno is mostly going to be built with Crit and Atk over having a 1000em.... "c2 wanderer with c6 faruzan or c3 raiden with c6 Sara , ayaka c2 with mist and shenhe" Before any of them is c6 Hyperbloom is still on par with them with the same investment, if doing ~40k to ~80k bloom every 0.5 second isn't good then the other team are not as well yes they may have bigger Dmg screen shot but the dps is mostly the same at this investment. And really Wanderer ? His 2 first constellation are really not that great... 10% atk spd, 25% dmg on the dash passive and up to 200% dmg on the ultimate... I do know some people that have spend for c2+ Wanderer or Ayaka and have difficulties clearing the abyss, Hyperbloom is a reaction that you can use almost everywhere not like freeze of wanderer that need to be babysit... "But whales have c6 characters with signature weapons" if for you a whale is someone with all characters at c6r5 than yes Hyperbloom isn't the strongest reaction for them, but not all whales have all characters c6r5, "It scales the worst out of any archetype whale wise" at some point you can hit a ceiling yes, still not a soon as you think. And where is the issue in investing in Hyperbloom ? Nahida c2 can be use elsewhere, Freedom sworn a good weapon for Kazhua and Jean, Yelan c2 amazing unit, Aqua top 2 weapon for almost every bow characters... Hyperbloom may have a "low" ceiling but for every new player that want to invest in some unit and like Nahida and/or Yelan I'd say it's the best to do it with them as they will be able to build new team while still having a really strong team to clear the abyss Don't know why but you seem to really dislike the Hyperbloom reaction and like a bit to much hypercarrys...
Ive invested horizontally for a very long time now (the last 3 years in fact) and i got almost everyone from the first 4 regions i could want and actively need. on top of a decent ammount of vertical investment (i have 4 crit swords that at most i use 2 of) but i wouldnt want to miss them. I have the option to run alot different teams yet i mostly default to itto monogeo in a decent chunk of abyss floors its easy.... no literally i dont have to think... just activate supports EQ > itto q and then go ham. im glad i have the flexibility to both invest vertically and horizontally depending on the situation. But most characters i dont see a reason to vertically invest primogems into because a new character my brain can randomly pick occasionally (more toys to play with) over a constellation that just makes number bigger and doesnt change how i can play the game.. and most constellations dont exite me lots if at all. Literally the only character id pull cons for is kazuha and then its straight to c6 to enable taserzuha and hyperscend vape kazuha (with c6 bennett) but else at most they get crowns and maybe their sig. Constellations so far of the table almost entirely. (i dont count artifacts since they get swapped to whoever needs them at that moment dince at most you need to gear 8 characters and alot have unique sets nobody claims)
Thank God my favorite characters are Hu Tao and Raiden. What I do is strong vertical investment in my 2 mains and then If I want to build a new characters build them very lightly for them to function and continue to vertical invest in my mains again. I've reached a point where I've build all the characters I want to build on my account, so, it's back the emblem domain baby. ( and CW strong box ).
@@FliponYT there is this whole "f2ps prrefer new charc over weps/cons" take that has been propagating since the dawn of the game that annoys me to no end. Everytime I see an account review and the reviewer sees a 5* wep, they immediately assume "not f2p". I have no idea what f2p are pulling every character they see.
i've highly invested in a few setups & its paid off in spades, for example, i've had hu-tao pretty much since i started playing; went from c0r2bane, r3bane tripled, r5bane, got yelan SPECIFICALLY for her, c1r1, double crowned my xingqiu, got instructors for my zhongli, i have elegy of the end which is for best boob venti but i put it on yelan in the abyss for more ht em, i also have simulacra, & my artifacts are really, REALLY hard to improve on her now (her main issue is just having 60 cr) the only upgrades left that i think i can do is double crowning yelan & maybe getting jade cutter for xingqiu, or another homa for zhongli but i don't build him on damage so it'd be a waste (i do plan on going for jc since i want it for alhaitham too) she is my strongest team & i always whip her out for the hardest stuff, mega reliable unit & she can clear with like 2 minutes 30 seconds for the other half if its a single target chamber (this happened with jadeplume 3.7 abyss) my trusty c1r1 tripled ganyu is also a chad with c2r1 shenhe, i usually like to play mono cryo since my ayaka is mistsplitter but melt REALLY helped when i needed it this abyss i'd say my childe internat is also highly invested atp & my xiao team as well & those are just my big guys, my other units are all well-built & reliable, i triple-crowned alhaitham recently & i'm probably going to invest higher into his setup too so i can actually use him (bro's on HOD right now, with the most mid artifacts i need to upgrade him) TLDR; from personal experience i recommend doing what flip flop says here its very effective & you'll always have 'those reliable teams' for when you really need them anyways now sleep you edited for like 10 years probably 🍰
This is something I've been thinking about for some time now. Personally I definitely have a different philosophy- but I do think that there are multiple ways to succeed and it matters more what you personally prefer, whether you play for team building and variety or perfecting one or a few characters you REALLY like. I know personally if I was forced to play Raiden Hyper and Ayaka for the entirety of the game I would uninstall lmao. Whereas there are definitely some hardcore Ayaka mains who would player her until the end of time. First thing is that I don't count artifacts as vertical investment really. You mentioned getting 2 offensive subs on all 5 pieces could be equivalent to a signature, but after a certain point of investment (like 30-ish offensive rolls, maybe around 200 CV) the amount of resin needed to actually do that is just enormous. After a certain point it kind of is "lady luck" whether your specific build has 30 or 40 offensive rolls. If you have a top 5% build or something, you could probably farm for a decade and still have a decent chance of not getting an upgrade. Zy0x has farmed vermillion so much and yet he hasn't seen an upgrade in so long. I don't feel like it's really a big deal to maybe use a few weeks worth of resin to build someone else that you're curious about rather than basically getting nothing anyways from artifacts. So to me, the bulk of vertical is signature weapon and constellations. I think one thing that is understated is that people can clear abyss *and clear comfortably* without vertical investment. Last abyss (which many people called the hardest ever) I cleared every chamber in under 2 minutes with teams that had no 5 star weapons and no 5 star cons at all. That literally gives you a whole minute of breathing room a chamber. Meanwhile I know of people who struggled with c2 Raiden and/or c2 Nahida. At the end of the day, my personal experience is that imperfect play and rotation misalingnment, not pure DPS, is almost always the reason why people don't 36 star when they could. The other thing I want to point out is that whilst you can often "brute force" unsuitable chambers with vertical investment, it may also be not as easy or comfortable to do. Genshin's abyss constantly changes and highlights different team's strengths and weaknesses. Last abyss wasn't that good for International but I had huge success with Yae. This abyss first half is amazing for International. I think a relatively extreme example would be trying to use Ayaka in 3.4 Chamber 12-1-1, 4 waves of ruin enemies. You could vertical invest, getting Mist, Shenhe, and maybe even cons. But you still had to deal with trying to bait the second ruin enemy into your burst, which was very RNG dependent and could be frustrating. Meanwhile a team that is very multiwave agnostic like 2 hydro hyperbloom or Alhaitham QB breezed through that chamber at similar times to a vertically invested Ayaka with much less trouble. So if you're a new player who, say, decided to go all in on Ayaka at the detriment of dendro teams, you might run into roadblocks where the abyss doesn't suit you. And even if you have the DPS to brute force, you might run into mechanical issues that require skill to overcome- and remember what I said about abyss? That skill is IMO one of the ultimate reasons why veteran accounts don't 36 star.
There is also third type of investment(my type): Brainrot investment It means you build Nilou for aoe half and Nahida Hyperbloom for boss half and play only them until genshin ends. Works literally every abyss(even in 3.7) but in sacrifice of your brain(can confirm, I became stupid)
Not sure vertical investment will ever be more valuable then horizontal as long as the floor of HB and National are so high and easy to clear with. As it stands horizontal tends to be less risky and more fun cause well…you get to play with more units.
And also, problem with vertical is that no matter how high u try to reach(cv) theres a chance that u wont get it even after a year of camping a domain, srsly wheres my crit rate emblem that have functional stats. My xiangling stays 60:120 even after a year of farming and flip says his raiden is bad.
@@pplwhoreplyisorangutan8543well that and certain abyss’s might counter your units. But even then whatever because of one thing. Regardless of what you chose to do H or V, you still end up respecting pull value if your a smart player and build meta ass units like Bennet kazu Nahida. If you go V or H you still probably have those units, and once you build meta teams with them congrats you won every abyss cycle ever. Wowie zowie. Almost like this entire debate is irrelevant as long as you get around to pulling at least some meta units that trivialize abyss.
Patient people: vertical investment Normal: horizontal invest Me: Zigzag investment: focus on a character but sprinkle some resins on some so I won't get bored.
I like to wish for as few characters as possible and therefore ive decided to not wish for Zhongli. The only character who actually wants him is mu Yoimiya and i can just use Layla.
I kinda do both. I have a few teams that I vertically invested into: Keqing Aggravate, Nilou Bloom, Ayaka Freeze, Mono Geo, and, more recently, Thundering Furry. But I also have a lot of characters built on the side to fill in certain slots when need be, and other teams that are kinda just there when I need them, like Hyperbloom, Double Hydro Hu Tao, Taser, Burgeon, etc. No reason not to in my opinion, as it’s just more options and helps with burnout. Also, I have two accounts, which is why and how I have so many vertically invested teams.
Personally I only pull on banners that will add value to my account. My last 3 5 stars were kazuha, Nahida, and yelan. My wife pulls everytime she gets 1600 primos no matter the banner. I don't have as many characters to play but I have better quality to play. We each play our own ways and have fun.
I have only ever even consider vertical investment. I only need enough characters to build 2 teams, and the number of characters I really like is less than 8 anyway. So I'm all in on vertical investment - got one team of hyperbloom meta units I didn't really want just to run on the other side of abyss.
best way to go is just to horizontally invest into all of the good chars like kazu, nahida, xq, etc and then when you have the essentials built, start vertically investing from favorite/best downward a cracked out Childe ain't gonna do you shit on national if your xiangling isn't built
I'm convinced you're me from another timeline: We both stan our queen Fischl 👑 We both main Eula 🍑 We both refuse to build the disgrace known as em Raiden 👎 And you're also stealing my hydro wife from fontaine 😤
I've mainly done vertical investment as a f2p. I don't see the point of getting 5*s that I think will just get benched so I don't play waifu pokemon in genshin. I pulled Xiao on his first banner and just devoted all of my resin to him and that paid off in spades. That one dude carried my account for years since I invested in his artifacts and I got a Homa from that baller og Homa/WGS banner. Then when I saw new characters come out I was like does this help my xiao team? If not how long would it take for me to get this new character to the power level of my Xiao and is that worth it to me? Btw, it's not even just that you can brute force things with big pp numbers, it's also like once your characters are strong enough you can completely scuff up the team comps for the elemental checks and be fine. Like I've literally only built Dendro Traveler as far as Dendro goes, and I didn't put much into her and I've 36*-ed every abyss. Oh I need Electro for side 1? Guess my Ayaka team has Fischl in it now, etc. and still be able to clear all of it on the first try.
I found myself subconsiously doing a bit of both. Basically I have about 90% of the roster built to a usable degree (I like to play different teams often) but certain meta characters that I enjoy I went a bit further with. Things like Nahida's c2 since I enjoy all of the dendro reactions, Yelan's c1, Homa and c1 for Hu Tao, Elegy and Key for their buffing utility, r5 Serpent Spine for Eula. At the same time I've done silly things like farm a cracked clam set for Qiqi in spite of not really playing geo comps (a lot of useless husk pieces) or ending up with c2 Childe while trying to get a single copy of Rosaria on her release back in 1.4.
it is true a lot of ppl suck at this game due to various reasons me too, but I think I will still prefer new characters, it makes me feel happy and fresh
I have been vertically investing to a point which is why I only have a total of 11 characters fully (pretty much I am still working to improve them) built after 9 months of playing. My teams do a ton of damage even though I am f2p but that is purely because it takes me a month to fully build a character. I didn't really think about it I have just been vertically investing because I don't want to build characters I won't use. My goal is 2 fully geared teams per version (like 4.0 - 4.8). I will admit last abyss I was not able to pass the element check because my 2 teams are alhaitham quick bloom and Nilou bloom. Luckily my Alhaitham actually is great on er as he has 5% extra at 140 when he only needs 135. Also how dare you hyper bloom is the best and kuki is my favorite character in the entire game.
My problem as a new player is that pretty much the only character i actually like more than the others is Beidou. I searched pretty much already and all cc put her as sub dps, but i want her onfield most of the time cause his kit is great. The other characters are fine but they are all the same to me xD they all have same playstyle
good points, as someone who has 1k+ days on genshin, my advice would be building 2 strong teams and try to farm for other "weaker" units (weaker as in investment in cons and sig weapons) this way u can somewhat get the best of both worlds. Also i would say "just build whoever you like" but if you're the type who likes to clear everything, i'd suggest building the national core (xq xl bennet) first then go for a hyperbloom team afterwards cause after living in emblem domain for like 2 or 3 months u should have sufficient artifacts for ur national core, then u can go live another few months in deepwood domain xD i personally never struggled in abyss since a patch after childe's first banner, literally managed to breeze thru 36* stars ever since (mobile player btw) but this is what i did altho it took a very long time to be able to obtain this level of investment. i'm now just a casual player nowadays as i don't have much time because of life but i still can easily 36* abyss also waifu meta enjoyer here with c2r1 on my favourite units (ayaya, yelan, keq, nilou) (nilou just don't have her key but will get key in her next rerun)
I understand the feelings of pulling characters then I don't use much because I don't feel much fun using them aside I love them. I have teams like Childe national, Mono Geo Itto, Eula team, Alhaitham Spread, Ayaka Freeze team, Ayato team and Cyno team. In the end, I usually go for Childe national since I enjoy the riptide effects, he's the only C2 character I have with R1 Polar Star. Then, I would go either Ayato or Alhaitham... The rest, I'll either use them on floor 9-11 xD
As someone who didn't get Bennett, Fischl and Kuki until I was AR 55, and still do not have Xingqiu, I have personally just adapted to building and playing with characters I like. The abyss really doesn't concern me; I just do it once until I lose and then don't touch it until the next cycle
I've always been on the horizontal investment camp due to a lack of characters that i like, but nowadays i feel like i'm going to do mixed investment from no on. I'll still try to build the rest of my account even if scuffed, but I'm gonna be more picky with what I roll since I can cover every niche. I'll go for Navia and Arlechinno in Fontaine since they are my two favourite characters from the region but otherwise I think I might start saving for C2 Nahida, I use her a lot in a lot of teams so she would be a really safe investment, just as C2R1 Yelan was (my first vertical investment pulls), I also want to aim for Thundering Pulse and Key of Khaj Nisut, Yoimiya and Nilou both carry me through lot of abyss cycles so it makes sense to vertically invest into them, then everyone else build more casually, unless Navia or Arle are broken somehow and I realize I prefer playing them in Spiral abyss over Yoimiya or Nilou (a lot of things would need to happen for that). I hate that Raiden National is my fallback option in the rare cases Nilou and Yoimiya don't work because I hate playing that team
Vertical investment comes with time, Horizontal investment should come with strategic wishes investments. If you play Genshin with limited real life resources then you must have a healthy mindset that you cannot collect them all as fast as possible. Watch some guides before pulling on a banner. The video is informative and useful but the only thing that I do not agree with the video is investing in weapon banner. I follow a strict rule of only a single 10 pull per good weapon banner (Both weapons could be useful in my most invested characters). Weapon banners could screw up your months worth of savings, it's almost like a sandpit that only whales can swim at this point. It's better to see a new character than a new weapon. In the end, it's important to have discipline and self control especially in Gacha games.
I couldn’t care less about the abyss and optimal gameplay, I just want to have fun in the open world with characters I like… I normally complete 9-11 just for the primos then leave 12 cause it’s not worth my time… I have completed 12 a few times just to prove to MYSELF I can, but it was harder than the other floors which I already felt isn’t fun content… I would really love some more open world endgame content, I don’t for the life of me understand why there isn’t something like the simulated universe in Genshin permanently. If simulated universe was a thing, I could see myself full clearing that every reset. They already have the blueprint, they have done rogue like gameplay in Genshin, just make it permanent… I wish they would revamp all the artifact farming to be more rogue like, maybe tweak how many drop to account for the extra time it takes to do them… what happens to Genshin when the story ends??
Vertical investment didn't stop me from struggling in 3.7 ... but that's mostly because in my case it doesn't include much in the way of healers and shielders except for Sunfire Meltyu that team's Ganyu+three healers ... none of which are built for healing but that was on the back half where I didn't really struggle
On the one hand, I know this is right. On the other hand, the idea of pulling 5-star cons feels like shit. Tbh I have a decent number of 5-star weapons and I don't actually think there are that many constellations I could pull for the teams I use, I'm just massive skill issue sadge prayge for me
I would say vertical investment is important but u need to know when to stop cs of how artifacts work and u reach platoing. For me it is 1-2 month on char and then it's more optimal and interesting to switch onto some other char.. I mean u need to know when ur artifacts "isn't upgradable", and so u can have both good vertical and horizontal investments. BTW that's some cracked Ganyu u have there, as a fellow Ganyu main myself - my respect
Personally, while i know vertical investment can be more efficient, I just like having flexibility and adaptability of horizontal investment. One of the reasons is that big part of vertical investment is artifact grinding over minor substat improvement, which is HELL and I HATE IT. I’d rather have more teams with decent stats that I can put against content they are good at, rather than spend seven months trying to get my two invested teams good enough so they can bruteforce suboptimal for them content (but i still go and try to run Rosa rev melt against ASIMON because well i got SoSS instead of Elegy and I’M GONNA USE IT DAMMIT)
i wish i could go back to 2020 keeping my current game knowledge and change the decisions i made to my acc unfortunately thats not possible so what i can do is be more smart about the future. i also want to say that even if you never used your resin from 1.0 untill now and saved all your primogems to c12 dehya your acc would still be better than someone just starting now
Brute forcing every abyss with C3 R1 Hyper Raiden to the point where I skipped building dendro teams has been my joy as an FU to Hoyo’s beyond greedy move of releasing 4 stars that need C6.
I'm just curious, how the hell do you use Keqing? Ever since Dendro i never bothered learning her Quicken teams and she's just there sitting at level 90 (back when i got her in 2020)
Heh. I've been vertically investing in Eula ever since I got her very recently. Literally doing resin refreshes so that I'm unable to wish for other characters. 😏
I only pull characters I like, then I decide whether or not I want them to be stronger, which leads me to pulling characters I just want to buff the ones I like in terms of usability. This heavily applies to weapons, why build or invest on something you don't like? Just for competition? Abyss? Ew, gross. At least enjoy yourself by liking the gameplay and the things you're using. Also Flip wtf was that joke with irl stuff lmao, cringe, bestie. :3
After finishing the whole video, I have to agree 👍. I'd suggest having 2 characters of each element built up and maxed out over time. Picking up 5 star weapons for them where you can. For example iv been playing since the beginning an I have 2 of the most op dps currently in the game ganyu an alhathem, but outside of that i only have like 4 other 5 stars cause i dont need them. National team alone clears most abyass an then you add in a few good 4 stars like badiou an yaoyao or diona, i have all 3 😁, with cons.. The game plays itself. If you go and build up multiple units without first triple crowning and 5 stars weaponing your other characters alongside some good artifscts, then you havnet even begin to fully appreciate what all that does for a character 👍 An how much of a difference it makes on the game. Just my opinion. You do you
Judging by thumbnail: I see Raiden. I see green thing. I see flying green things, I mean arrows. It means I should build Raiden Hyperbloom(I did, bonked abyss, thank you)
Before even watching the video first comment is . Abyss fooor 9 10 11 are a joke so yeah u don’t really need meta teams to clear and for floor 12 most teams can get at least 3 to 6 stars on it with good investment. so ask urself this is that 50 promis worth ? Those who like the challenge sure go ahead invest in good unites and vertically in them if needed . But most people really don’t care about that 50 primos anymore it is honestly not worth the pain u go threw especially since last abysses .
My team consists of Fav Zhongli, Fav Rosa and almost 300er Raiden so it's enough to burst with little er. Replacing Zhongli with someone like Layla/Diona also effectively gives you a 0 er req on Eula.
Ok I’ll vertically invest into my Jean Tighnari Dori team thanks
Brooo😭😭😭😭
Based
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Dori player BASED
My advice would always be to pull for the 5* you like, you have to use these characters for more than abyss. Pulling just for abyss but not even liking the character seems a waste ultimately. I'd also say dont be fussy with 4* if they benefit the characters you like. Think of them as purely tools to enhance. For example I can't stand Bennett, but I really like Ganyu, Ningguang and Dehya, so I built him to benefit them.
The second thing is you will usually 33 the abyss with any characters you like, you don't need to go over and beyond for the extra 50 primo.
The last several Abyss cycles clearly demonstrated the power of horizontal investment. I noticed those that struggled the most were all-in on their main teams with no backup options.
Often the easiest way to 36 star those cycles for F2P is to individually target chambers with specific tools, which inherently benefits those with multiple teams and silver bullets available.
3.7 Abyss I literally had 6 different teams for floor 12, as each chamber wanted different tools.
Is it meta to build Jean, Sayu, Baizhu when you already have Kaz/Venti/Sucrose and Nahida? Probably not, but I'm glad I did because they sure came in handy to get the clear!
You’re right I used a team that was clearing in 8:30ish on first half but would end up with two or one stars
I chose the best of both worlds: heavily invested c4+mist Ayaka (mona diona kazoo) on the first half, c1 tao with homa (xq nahida john) second half. Was very comfortable to clear on the first try unlike nahida national i tried before and got frozen then oneshotted over and over. Welkin only.
The Supreme Leaders have spoken .You will make a zyox genshin court. You will and have to make one. Its Furina's will.
Back to the topic , my account is more of a horizontal invested since more comps means more fun for me and have full coverage for all archetype which pretty much helps me to clear any type of content. But yeah the main problem is that you have to focus on multiple different characters meaning more resin needed.
WHO ARE THE SUPREME LEADERS?!?!
Preach my brethren. We cum socks WILL have what we demand !!
I'm sick of horizontal investment tbh. I just summoned so many characters, that now 80% of them are benched (unable to clear the abyss with even decent artifacts), while mainly clearing the abyss with c6 Nahida and c2 Raiden. People like Zajef just like to push the idea of "Oh, more characters are always better bla bla bla" but who cares? I can't even build them enough because of the lack of resin and not caring about them that much in terms of lore, so I might as well just get cons for the characters I truly like (which also change their playstyle, like Xiao C6 or Nilou C6). I prefer having fewer characters that are giga buffed instead of 100 characters that are all mid at best when you invest into them. Plus, if I ever get bored or feel that I have too much power I can just back down, and instead of going for things like constellations, I can go for newer shinier units.
I used to do horizontal but then found myself always gravitating towards my older characters and benching my new ones and that felt pretty bad. Been going vertical ever since and am having a blast making my favorites really strong
I think the ideal thing is vertically invest until you have two good abyss teams you can 36 star with, then start horizontally investing.
eh not really. Both types require you to actually pull some decent units eventually and when you stick to the meta of dendro and national horizontal investment can clear easy. No one said you needed to horizontally invest into dog shit. C0 dendro teams clap ass for example.
Bro is really still referencing 3.7 abyss elemental checks that ended 10 years ago.
ITS BEEN A DAY!!?!?
I happened to have mistsplitter and I happened to have a very good Gilded dreams set, so I built my Keqing. I choose what characters to raise based on what artifacts I have. I got a fantastic wanderers troupe set and I have skyward harp so I built Tighnari etc.
I had a cracked wanderers troupe set so I got Ganyu and build a melt Ganyu team. Now I hate my life.
Keqing is fun. Hope you’ve been enjoying best girl 🥰
Im furious flip. Countless new vids over a short duration but none of them is the holy grail we seek which is the ZyOx genshin court. At least you mentioned ZyOx in this vid so ill have mercy on you this time. But if this happens again,im going to play physical fischl for the rest of 4.X patches.
You are going to be the death of me
@@FliponYT even after your death ill still keep asking for the ZyOx genshin court. We cum socks dont give up.EVER.
@@deltaspecies1697 cum sockies rise!!!
The problem is abyss is a mini game like fishing or tcg with a gimmick. That it provides a challenge to pit your teams against and the issue comes when the vertical investment goes beyond a point where it makes abyss gimmick redundant, I believe 33 star abyss and occasionally 36 stars with every time is more fun than good timed 36 stars every time. That's the fun of this minigame of being challenged and every abyss gives different characters chance to perform and enjoy different teams, which is redundant when you have big pp numbers and no challenge or thought is left to abyss which is a minigame about providing you that only.
Being what we called a one trick pony in almost every competitive game i played i directly went into vertical investment, i pulled probably more ganyu than any other 5 stars characters combined at the release of sumeru (since i c6'd her while being only on welkin and battlepass)
i have very few temporary 5 stars character for a day one players but almost all of them have constellations (raiden and yae c2 (my main goal now is to c6 yae at next rerun) nahida hu tao shenhe c1 etc.)
and even then i have some pull i regret like Eula that is benched since almost day one
genshin is such a game that having 100+ characters mean nothing since u'll bench atleast half of them if not more
i'd say at first find what you like playing, pull enough to maybe have 4 teams available and from now on, build them and invest in them
edit : dont sleep on 4 stars characters, some are amazing and will help you toward your goals since u'll naturally pull them when trying to get your favorite 5 star
The thing I am worried about is the more I vertical invest the more the abyss becomes redundant as genshin is a static difficulty, and getting Nahida to C2 will make no gameplay changes but numbers only and if I love chongyun and can play him then 33 stars with him is good enough for me as I will be pushed to my limits to even get that with only decent investment. Abyss is like tcg or fishing in genshin with a gimmick of providing mental stimulation and temporary challenge, which I will be stripping of by vertical investment.
vertically investing sounds like a pyramid scheme
Vertical investing is maybe more a late game thing. In the beginning you are too excited to get new characters and a bigger roster to choose from. And you won’t really even know who’s worth the effort unless you play with many different characters.
But at some point you have more characters than you can use. And you know who you like. That’s when you start to specialise.
I’ve played GI so long I basically have all the characters I like and most of them with decent builds. (Favourites even ridiculously so with triple crowns & lvl 90.) So now it’s more adding things on top of that. On reruns I pull for constellation or the BIS weapon. As a Welkin player it still feels weird to go for cons/weapon banner, but it’s better. No hassle to build someone knew and I’m sure my primos aren’t wasted on someone I won’t use.
Maybe getting a bit too lazy… new character has to really make me want them for me to bother with building them
The only people who say they hate hyperbloom are the ones who vertically invested a lot into their characters and they saw hyperbloom doing the same amount of damage but with a fraction of the effort
My favorite is to horizontal invest until you have 3-4 good teams then vertical invest 2 of them to the pinnacle of insanity
I'm vertically investing as a dual Kaeya and Venti main. I've got like three or four good teams, and I have the resources to build up some of my neglected units if I need to because I haven't wasted resources trying to build everyone to a mediocre level instead of only building a few to high level. Do what you feel is good for you and your play style!
As a new player id rather sacrifice 300 primos and being able to clear up to floor 10 end enjoy the freedom to have different options is actually enough for me for the moment im a horizontal investment enjoyer. well credit to keqing she carried me hard i can't bench her cuz I am the storm that is approaching.
Bro thinks he's Luffy
Do not bench Keqing later. Aggravate Keqing is very efficient and fun, it's my most played team since dendro release. Keqing basically benched my Yae, Ayaka, and many other so-called premium units.
@@christopheantoine5472 Yeah I agree I can't bench her. She's perfect, fun, she best waifu, dps, team driver, fast, teleportation, evrrything. I'm sold.
I personally think that "build your account right" only exists because you want to clear Abyss. for players who dont want to touch abyss at all, you can play Genshin however you want
The Abyss itself only got difficulty spikes at 12F. 11F and below can be cleared full star even with mediocre team, not well-built artifact, and such as long you did what the game wants to fulfill character build (Talent levels, Weapons, etc)...
A lot of features from Genshin basically got difficulty spikes, from how it's longer to ascend lv 70-90 than lv 1-70, why Talent lv 9-10 is way longer than lv 1-8, and Spiral Abyss 11F to 12F. The highest goal is just flexing but the lower objectives should be able to clear for free Primos below the standard checkpoint...
In a sense, I'm gonna agree with your thesis, since there's a point that horizontally investing may not be interesting.
And about EM Raiden, what I can say is that in times like this I wish there was artifact loadouts, since changing artifacts for different builds is annoying.
I just keep her other set on Razor since I'd never need to use EM Razor and EM Raiden at the same time (to many shared team members) and if I use Razor at all it is on a full EM build. Still, loadouts would be nice.
I get you bro.
I like to switch my Shoguns build between Atk and full Em for variety, but constantly switching artifacts is so annoying
Been playing since 2.7, and now that I have two solid comps for abyss I’m now pulling for cons and weapons, occasionally going for new characters as I’ve already got a good amount of artifact sets which I can switch around as well as weapons :)
There are some problems of both versions of investments.
The rate of progress for vertical investment plateaus the more you do it, making it feel like you aren't improving and that takes a toll on the mental and discourages vertically investing in the long term.
Horizontal investment feels like you are making progress and increases character comp diversity but often its not up to scratch to your mainline strong team until you vertically invest for them, so the downside is that they are often underpowered to be viable for floor 12.
The true answer is to do both, so Diagonal investment. Its fun and lets me do stupid things like Dendro DPS Yao Yao or Aggravate DPS Dori, and I would've done Nymph Set Hydro DPS Candace if not for her HP scaling.
This statement is only sorta true if the person doesn’t horizontally invest into the meta. You DO NOT need to upgrade some of the bloom teams and national teams. Their baseline floor is pooping on abyss.
@@wilburforce8046 I do not necessarily agree. Only vertically investing is not always viable due to abyss meta shifting, either because some team setups just are dysfunctional due to the specific boss or enemy sets in the floor, or there is a better way in terms of ease or speed. One example of a major meta shift is 3.0, Dendro and Sumeru's release. Many people horizontally shifted to a different team composition due to the fact that Dendro changed the meta very hard. A specific example for this abyss is the advent of the Nahida National, which works very well for all enemies in the 2nd half of all chambers in floor 12 so people who haven't used Nahida National would horizontally invest into that team, however if you are using that comp in a regular floor of abyss you would find it to be dysfunctional, so it requires you to horizontally invest or shift into another team setup either way for a different set of abyss enemies.
Also Bloom and National teams do still need upgrades in vertical investment, 1 because there is no hard baseline for abyss, its simply a dps check (which can shift wildly depending on the combination of their artifacts and skill check) and 2 because it allows you to have more ease and speed in abyss regardless which is a good thing to always have.
@@PowerOfTheAsian you need to elaborate bruh when is Nahida ever not an easy clear with four star supports.
When is National not an easy clear with c0 five stars like kazu and childe paired with four stars. Like what do you mean you need vertical investment.
And no my Nahida four star team that worked last abyss still worked this abyss cause Kuki shinobu goes fuckin brrr. Show me Nahida HB or c0 NB not clearing. Simply having characters is enough for dendro to clap always and as far as I can tell, forever. (Not even sure what weird team comp you were talking about there earlier that couldn’t be modulated with diffrent four stars to handle different content)
National is just as easy slap on kazu Raiden childe ayato etc on your Bennet XL core. C0 five star easy clear.
@@wilburforce8046 You misunderstood. I did not mean Nahida itself, but her specific team composition of Bennett Nahida Xingqiu Xiangling, Nahida National. The team had very high usage due to the fact that it was very good on 2nd half of the past few abyss cycles with the Thundering Manifestation, Cryo/Hydro Herald Tag Team, and so on. Once you take it out of that enemy set is where the dysfunctionality of the team composition shows.
Sure, National and its variants are strong and reliable, but it does not mean that you shouldn't vertically invest in them regardless or that it is inherently less valuable. Why stay on 60/120 total Crit Rate/Crit DMG Xiangling that, sure, has been working for the past few abyss when you can vertically invest that to be more like 70/140 as many recommend or even higher, such as 80/150~160. Just because its strong doesn't mean you can get away with not touching or improving upon it.
@@PowerOfTheAsian 1. Nobody uses Nahida national outside of that abyss there’s this thing called adapting your teams which is in fact easier with horizontal investment. Just play around with your four stars that comp isn’t a real thing. HB is. NB is a well.
2. Bro my xiangling isn’t even as good as your example of a meh xiangling and I’ve been clapping abyss with mono Pyro Deyha. Like cmon national *is* that easy to clear with. I did Collei national with my meh xiangling for crying out loud. And I’m not some giga gamer pro or anything.
So yes I do get away with not improving it lol. Vertically invest if you really want because at the end of the day playing good teams Is playing good teams. But I am living proof that horizontal investment never dies. I build nearly everyone c0 five star with decently build supports. And I’ve been clapping abyss for ages now comfortably because the good teams just never stop shining. (My meh teams obviously struggle though lol. Geo traveler ain’t too hot as it turns out)
Certain c0 limited banner teams just have such a high floor that this whole debate is a bit meaningless.
I always think that middleground is the best and the most healthy. I was doing a bit of vertical for one team, then I got to the place that felt nice for my AR and I could do a bit more of horizontal. Test some teams, get new characters, have some fun, test some dumb teams for giggles... And when I was done with that I did another ascend and went vertical again. I could switch my main team a bit at this point (or a lot), include new characters, or just replace the ones I didn't enjoy anymore.
I recently got to WL8 and now I am pushing my main team up again. I changed from Ayaka freeze to Xiao, 'cause for some reason I neglected him, even though I love playing him.
So I'd say that the type of growth You need depends on your account. Sometimes You need horizontal to expand your roster just because You have nothing to build on and sometimes You need to focus on vertical for that one team You want/need. And after that You go back to vertical to switch some things up or get that new 5* that caught your eye.
Imo the best way to invest if u want to clear spiral abyss is do vertical investment first. Then,do horizontal investment to avoid repetetive gameplay.
Alright so picking two 5 stars on field dps or two specific team comps maybe like a quick swap or something like mono geo. So pick two and vertical investment into them a good bit.
Example with Hu tao maybe getting c1 and homa or at homa and grabbing Yelan for another 5 star is a pretty good vertical investment for Hu tao then the other two slots is Xingqiu and either Zhongli or another shielder or Xiangling.
Then another team could be Ei with either hypercarry or aggravate with Fishel, Bennett or nahida, and Kazuha or sucrose depending on what team your going for. I know Sara is somewhat better for hypercarry at c6 and a c2 with EL Ei,but Fishel just adds more on field damage.
So with these teams especially if im giving Ei both teams i should be able to clear abyss pretty damn well especially if i pull c2 Nahida as well. But that would be a small bonus.... if we're not talking about the def shred she gives to enemies affected by quicken,aggrvate, and spread. Plus Ei's own def ignore.
Which is my plan since I love the two Hu tao being my favorite pyro, and Ei being my second favorite electro after Fishel
Yea vertical investment can be great for abyss, but it can also be hilarious sometimes, one of my friends doesn't believe that i really 36 stared ANY abyss with itto and razor as the on fielder's for each team. I have been doing it since nahida came out and i will get even more itto cons because I love his playstyle.
Same thing with me and me Eula. People are so flabbergasted when I'm able to even clear resists with her quite easily
@@FliponYT Bruh, unless you’re playing Dehya, 36 starring with two well invested teams isn’t something that people should ever be that surprised about.
@@FliponYTI did Eula lass abyss and this abyss but damn she’s still so much worse then c0 Nahida teams
On Hoyolab, under Battle Chronicle, it shows your Abyss clear data, e.g. which units you used to 36 star.
@@phoenixlau I know but I think it'd be funnier if I didn't show him that and keep him thinking that I used a better team like national or something when I really didn't.
Ppl also tend to leave out the fact that you need to spend more resources and resin to build these new characters. Plus if you were to pull for someone like ayaka, you'd need to spend more primos for her BIS 5 star supports(shen he/kokomi/kazuha). That's like spending 3 extra gold pulls and this is not even including mist splitter. Not to mention, you'd need to pull on 3 more separate banners. You cant even get all the pieces in one go.
Ayaka tends to be a vertically invested unit cause she’s sorta meehhhh at c0
Don’t always assume people will horizontally invest into dogshit. What if they want all the different dendro teams and national teams. (They can call clear abyss easy)
As for the leveling part. Nah. You need to pick up *too* many units for that to be a problem. If your so poor you can’t build two abyss teams that’s no longer a matter of vertical and horizontal.
@@wilburforce8046 We're talking about the effectiveness for each 5 star pull. For example if you already have 2 teams down, hutao double hydro and international, there's no point in pulling horizontally for units like nilou, ayaka or raiden. It makes a lot more sense to pull for weapons or const at that point. I can say I want to pull for every dendro related unit, it doesnt mean that's the most effective choice but is still something you can go for personally.
As for your second point, yes it is wasted resources if you're building up a completely new team or dps from scratch for a team that does c0 levels of damage. That's not even accounting for resin needed for artifact farming. You would might as well spend the primos on constellations or BIS weapons and to get more damage for your existing team. But of course if you already have the investment to 36 star easily than you can pull for whatever you want. Its just not cost effective overall to pull for whatever new shiny 5 star that doesnt improve on the current team you've already invested in.
@@glorn6758 but why does this talk of cost effective matter when dendro teams all clap abyss at c0 with four stars. Like bruh.
Horizontal investment insures you don’t get countered by abyss like this recent one while also coming with zero risk as long as you know what the low investment meta is. (It’s impossible to lose with Nahida dendro teams at c0)
reaching this point you speak of where you can always clear abyss is easily accomplished with horizontal investment. Not saying Vertical is bad or anything but when is it ever better seriously. When does an account with the dendro and national roster lose cause they didn’t get a five star weapon or cons.
Horizontal comes with zero risks when you simply pick good teams to play. Core support units like Nahida kazu also show up in so many teams anyway that simply having them is enough to guarantee blindfolded clears.
I just don’t see why you would need to care about cost effectiveness when this games “meta” is all about clapping abyss as cheaply and and as easily as possible. also for some people clearing with other teams is just fun. I mean sure don’t go buying a Eula and then an Itto and then run out of books building their niche supports.
But if you go Nilou ayato cjilde and slap them on support template teams you already had cause they were the meta regardless of vertical or horizontal, your just fine.
@@wilburforce8046 Thats whole point of account building is to make the most out of your pulls to benefit the teams you are cuurently playing. If you're making horizontal pulls when your main teams are lacking damage to 36 star, that isnt gonna help at you at all. Also you're still gonna need constellations on most of the 4 stars if you want c0 clears and that takes time to build up from pulling. Even the artifact investment required will be a lot steeper without any constellations or 5 star weapons.
There're only some teams that can get countered hard like wanderer against wenut but you can always just play them on the other half. Even mono geo can be played top side from the previous abyss. Also im not talking bout meta here so I dont get why you gotta bring up low investment meta thats not the point of discussion. Im talking bout making the best pulls for the 2 teams you're interested in playing. The meta should only revolve around the stuff you wanna play at the end of the day.
National still needs 4 star consts to get good clears. Not saying its impossible but alot harder. The same goes for hyperbloom if thats what dendro you're referring to. And what makes you think that everyone wants to play these 2 of teams?
Yeah be a meta slave great. Surely everybody that plays genshin only plays these 2 teams. Also im not saying to skip nahida and kaz, pull them if your teams needs them if not its not the end of the world to skip. Not every team uses kazuha and nahida as it turns out.
Im not saying to not play other characters at all. Im saying investing vertically to a certain extent for the teams you see yourself playing most often is gonna benefit the account a lot more than pulling for whatever new 5 star that doesnt even work with your current teams and it pretty much becomes a dead pull at that point. As this video also suggested, 5 star weapons are transferable too and it straight up gives you more damage than farming your ass for that one crit stat or whatever artifact bullshit. Its also not wrong to pull for eula and itto if these are the teams you're interested in. Just look out for their supports, that's kinda it really.
You cant just slap nilou ayato childe in any team and expect them to work lol. Dafuck you on about. Nilou is only really worth getting for bloom which limits you to a couple dendro/hydro units, ayato works in a lot of teams but is never the best choice so why go out of your way to pull him specifically, childe only works with xiangling if you dont plan on playing her, he's essentially a dead pull.
@@glorn6758 holy marry mother of strawman. No offense but are you dumb? You keep assuming people who horizontally invest just fail to do the bare minimum with c0 five stars and cons for their four stars.
You do realize horizontal investment can easily cover meh to decent artifacts and cons on your supports right? What exactly is your definition of horizontal investment bruh. Just being an idiot with your account?
Please get back to me when you have a point becuase my account is the literal definition of smart horizontal investment (not to toot my own horn) built the right c6 supports, meh to okayge artifacts, and I know what teams are good. Like what are you even on about assuming horizontal investors keep their artifacts at 4 and their xiangling cons at 1. Are you kidding me?
I’ve cleared with nearly every decent team last abyss (the hardest one to many) didn’t need five star cons and weapon refinements. What I did need was the bare minimum which is covered by horizontal investment. (Bro everyone gets cons on units like Xingqiu why did you even pretend that wasn’t going to happen based on this argument)
You call me a meta slave yet also assume I’m a complete retard for not knowing how to build Nilou bloom with a bunch of free four stars. Like cmon bruh. There’s pull value in this game and only the dumbest most strawman version of horizontal investors will ever struggle with abyss. (That goes for verticale too btw, if your dumb about how you build your teams you won’t clear regardless of which investment path you chose)
But vertical investment to many simply isn’t worth it when the meta floor of this game (shitting on abyss) is covered by smart horizontal investment where people actually complete their units okayge build before moving on.
I dont like vertical investment (cons, 5* weapons) because I can already get 33-35 stars without any 5 star weapons or any constellations on my 5 star. I'd rather have more characters to play rather than spend my primos for 5 star weapons and constellations for just 100 primos every abyss rotation.
Unfortunately I have reached the point where vertical investment isn't even worth it anymore. I can clear abyss without any issue no matter the difficulty. BUT, if you're a new player, do vertically invest. Go for that 200CV+ build on your main dps, go for some weapon banners, get your talents and levels up. It's ultimately what brought me to not needing to do it anymore and being able to play the game comfortably
Lets be real.
- First year you invest in new characters. Second year you start vertical investment cos its better than artifact farming and its annoyng building new chars from the scratch.
- Abyss i srelevant to meta slaves like us. We will pull Nahida, We will pull Raiden and few others. I in fact didnt pull Yelan cos she is annoyng show off.
- we dont know if we will play much more cos Withering waves and few others may emerge and GI
- finally we will play new chars until we get 10 friendship and then we will bench them XDD
Sure i can have 50 characters but so what, i wont like them equally as much and so I'll pick my favourites and end up with like 10 up to maybe 20 characters at most from which probably half are supports/flex picks, and damn it does feel so good to be childe/hu tao enjoyer, I managed to do every single abyss with no exceptions with international and some variant of hu tao team, i tried pulling for some for fun units like cyno but i ended up benching him almost immediately, i still think he's fun but imo childe and hu tao are just more fun so i why would i use cyno instead? With childe because he's hydro i can run him in almost every team archetype if i want to, like this abyss is incredibly fun to run freeze childe for example and on next banner im going for his C1, even if its just 2 more seconds of fieldtime that's already amazing for teams like hyperbloom or freeze, my end goal is to go for his C4 because its going to make him even more fun and you cant stop me haha
You going for Childe cons is the scariest thing you have ever told me
@@FliponYT LMAO, i fear no man, waifus are temporary, childe's mele stance at C6 is eternal 🗿
horizontal or vertical investment. Bruh. Just go diagonally upwards. mind-blowing
Your guide is good and comprehensive. The only reason I want to clear the abyss is so I can pull for more character. I’m a collector mindset so I want to have all the character which is a struggle in itself. 😅
I'm still glad to have invested so much into my childe because I've been playing him since day 1 of his banner back in 1.1 and still haven't gotten bored of him.
Once I vertically invested the game went from ok to awesome. Nothing is more enjoyable then actually using the characters I want. You get more teams either way you invest it's just do you want more teams with characters you care about or more teams with characters you don't give a fuck about. You can also do what you want I took my c6 r5 ayaka thru abyss without using her burst because I didn't fucking feel like it lol. The main thing is it's no longer what genshin wants me to do it's what I'm going to fucking do now and it's fantastic.
Yeah I primarily do vertical investments so I got my C0 Kazuha, Kokomi, Zhongli and Nahida as the base of my account then I have a C3 Raiden and C6 Yelan and that's it for my limited 5 stars. Luckily for me Raiden and Yelan are my favs but just become DPS monsters with their cons. Currently have 305 F2P plus welkin wishes saved for my next C6 project but I am gonna continue to save for a fontaine character I like. I have thought about C6 Nahida next time she reruns but I just don't enjoy dendro that much.
Oh I also only have 2 limited five star weapons; engulfing lighting and Aqua Simulacra both R1. I have only gone into the weapon banner twice and was lucky af to get Raiden and Yelan's weapons first try.
100% agree. That just makes logical sense in any game you have to build up a character/team. If you have 4 well built characters and only need 4 you'll do well but if you have 12 eh characters it will be harder to do well.
I have an addition to the human aspect: what if getting bad stat rolls on the arts (which I presume happens more on vertical) is what is giving you the f-cking burnout
Just like every other Flip video, this is a great video: informative and extremely useful for newer players.
I agree that vertical investment is quite often disregarded by players and content creators alike, when it’s not just a whales’ thing, and I do agree a lot of people don’t know how to play properly, but you did make a mistake during this video: I actually managed to get a wife, cheating every genshin player golden rule. so someone actually want me in real life. However… That doesn’t mean I won’t try my best to steal the title of #1 Furina husbando from you.
!!
Teach me your ways?!?
@@FliponYT it’s like gacha, keep pulling at some point you’ll get a 5 star, and hope that’s not a Qiqi.
Once I i get Kokomi, ill finally have every one of the characters i like and wanted, so after over 2 years from now I'll probably start saving for weapons and cons, and pull for the new characters I'm interested in (ahem Navia) in the middle. I dont really need the vertical level of investment since I've been able to 36 star every abyss for 1.5 years except the first cycle of 3.7 since i wasn't home and had to play in mobile, but it'll probably be fun seeing my Nilou obliterate the enemies in 0.7 seconds instead of 2 whole seconds
Bros interested in a geo unit
@@FliponYT eh, i have triple crowned Dehya, Collei and Amber. Surely it cant get worse than that right?
Great video flip at least you addressed that good artifact quality can be obtained overtime + strongbox for free without whaling neccessairly. When you have theorycrafters doing account reviews they literally get triggered by people's artifact quality just because its higher than poverty investmentstandards. But the reality is their standards are so low but that it's generally good enough on specific characters like xiangling 60/120 ratio with atk% elemental mastery/ sufficient energy recharge sub stats here and there. Like even though I saved up for characters like Cyno. Alhaitham. Yae. Ayaka with the gems I've accumulated from dailies abyss 36 star from the last 3 years of playing this game. I've essentially just used prior to aggrevate keqing a Electrocharge keqing with Hu tao xinqiu elegy amber + succrose or Zhongli + mona since I don't even own yelan every cycle because that's what I found fun./like aeshetically Like I didn't even want yae or yoimiya it just so happened I managed to get them and not get a c4 kirara (hardstuck at c3) so I can replace my dipshit yaoyao/dendro traveler. for my aggrevate keqing team.
I agree with this for the most part but it’s not what I have done. I’ve pulled for the dp’s that I want which are itto, wanderer, raiden, kequing, child which tbh isn’t a ton. But now I have invested so much into them artifact wise, talents, and levels that now I’m just gonna start pulling 5 star weapons for everyone cause I don’t have much more to do atm.
I think a mix of both is the thing that will yield you the most in term of both damage and long term satisfaction. Because you want characters who are strong but you also want to have variety in team building. So for example saving up for a nahida c2 or some of the other impactful early cons, these are usually the ones that somehow benefit everyone on the team . When you get a couple of them your clear times will become faster which will make running conventionally weaker characters more viable and your favorite character might be one of them. Let's say for the sake of argument you are the most diehard chongyun main there is , if you have a clear time of 1 minute instead of 1 30 on first half because of the vertical inestment of some characters it will become way more possible to clear with him. You generally will find more problems if you skew to either extremes too much. I forgot who said the quote but everything in moderation even moderation.
TL;DR - Get some cracked characters at first and maybe some of their early cons so you become more free to do whatever you want rather then what the game wants you to do.
Comment after i watched the video .
Surprisingly I agree with most ur takes . Yeah sometimes u might find fun in getting some couple cons on a character like nahida raiden kazuha yelan , especially flexible characters that get used in most teams , thus improving most of ur teams that uses those unites .
And u also might find fun in getting new unites that open up new team archetypes .
Over all It depends on the person , most people go in the middle and hard invest on unites they like while also getting new unites they are interested in .
The only think I disagree with is saying getting nahida for ur Em raiden is the best vertical investment . Hyperbloom is very horizontal team archetype, the more invested ur unite is the less u benefit from hyperbloom . That is why most whales use quickbloom because it scales better with investment .
"Surprisingly" 😭
@@FliponYT 😂 that was just a joke most ur takes are good , but u have some questionable ones ( fischl better than xingqui 😂 ) .
quickbloom is not better or worst than hyperbloom ? it just mean you are not having enough bloom and more quicken, whales do hyperbloom cause they have yelan c2 and nahida c2, hyperbloom not scaling verticaly is a joke...
@@Theninja974 I don’t know what rock u have been living under . But whales have c6 characters with signature weapons . Hyperbloom even with nahida c2 is not a vertically investment heavy team . It scales the worst out of any archetype whale wise . Quicken is more beneficial to whales because it scales with crit states and cons and signature weapons the most .
Hyperbloom is mainly a f2p tool that is very broken with its high floor , not just whales even small spenders or welkin players that have vertically invested team like for example c2 wanderer with c6 faruzan or c3 raiden with c6 Sara , ayaka c2 with mist and shenhe . Hyperbloom just falls behind since it doesn’t scale with crit states and c2 nahida isn’t enough to make it compete with most vertically invested teams .
@@amvbro7033 Have you read my answer or do you just want to be right ?
How can you do Quickbloom when your Yelan is C2 or above and she's going to proc way more bloom than you can proc quicken ?
I may be living under a rock but I do know how to read the constelation of the character in the game...
Quickbloom is more for f2p than for whales, and I never said that Quicken is less beneficial for whale, we were talking about Quickbloom and Hyperbloom.
When you have a quickbloom team you're losing on the hyperbloom dmg or the Quicken dmg.... (the crit and atk stats are useless for hyperbloom as you said it yourself....)
"Hyperbloom even with nahida c2 is not a vertically investment heavy team" I mean Nahida c2, her weapon, Freedom sworn, Yelan c2, her weapon... That 4 constelation and 3 Weapon for a team, Yes the floor for hyperbloom is high but the ceiling isn't as low as you think. (even if its lower than the other reaction)
(and we can even go in the Nilou bloom team where this scale even better with vertical investment...)
Yes Cyno is fine in Quickbloom but if you invest in him and go for a c6 r5 then just play him in Aggravate? it's going to be better the hyperbloom are not going to do a lot of dmg as the cyno is mostly going to be built with Crit and Atk over having a 1000em....
"c2 wanderer with c6 faruzan or c3 raiden with c6 Sara , ayaka c2 with mist and shenhe" Before any of them is c6 Hyperbloom is still on par with them with the same investment, if doing ~40k to ~80k bloom every 0.5 second isn't good then the other team are not as well yes they may have bigger Dmg screen shot but the dps is mostly the same at this investment. And really Wanderer ? His 2 first constellation are really not that great... 10% atk spd, 25% dmg on the dash passive and up to 200% dmg on the ultimate... I do know some people that have spend for c2+ Wanderer or Ayaka and have difficulties clearing the abyss, Hyperbloom is a reaction that you can use almost everywhere not like freeze of wanderer that need to be babysit...
"But whales have c6 characters with signature weapons" if for you a whale is someone with all characters at c6r5 than yes Hyperbloom isn't the strongest reaction for them, but not all whales have all characters c6r5, "It scales the worst out of any archetype whale wise" at some point you can hit a ceiling yes, still not a soon as you think. And where is the issue in investing in Hyperbloom ? Nahida c2 can be use elsewhere, Freedom sworn a good weapon for Kazhua and Jean, Yelan c2 amazing unit, Aqua top 2 weapon for almost every bow characters... Hyperbloom may have a "low" ceiling but for every new player that want to invest in some unit and like Nahida and/or Yelan I'd say it's the best to do it with them as they will be able to build new team while still having a really strong team to clear the abyss
Don't know why but you seem to really dislike the Hyperbloom reaction and like a bit to much hypercarrys...
I'm going to do reverse investinf where I actively make my characters weaker
This is so real
Ive invested horizontally for a very long time now (the last 3 years in fact) and i got almost everyone from the first 4 regions i could want and actively need. on top of a decent ammount of vertical investment (i have 4 crit swords that at most i use 2 of) but i wouldnt want to miss them.
I have the option to run alot different teams yet i mostly default to itto monogeo in a decent chunk of abyss floors
its easy....
no literally
i dont have to think... just activate supports EQ > itto q and then go ham.
im glad i have the flexibility to both invest vertically and horizontally depending on the situation. But most characters i dont see a reason to vertically invest primogems into because a new character my brain can randomly pick occasionally (more toys to play with) over a constellation that just makes number bigger and doesnt change how i can play the game..
and most constellations dont exite me lots if at all. Literally the only character id pull cons for is kazuha and then its straight to c6 to enable taserzuha and hyperscend vape kazuha (with c6 bennett)
but else at most they get crowns and maybe their sig. Constellations so far of the table almost entirely. (i dont count artifacts since they get swapped to whoever needs them at that moment dince at most you need to gear 8 characters and alot have unique sets nobody claims)
Thank God my favorite characters are Hu Tao and Raiden.
What I do is strong vertical investment in my 2 mains and then If I want to build a new characters build them very lightly for them to function and continue to vertical invest in my mains again. I've reached a point where I've build all the characters I want to build on my account, so, it's back the emblem domain baby. ( and CW strong box ).
I have c6 DIluc+WGS and c6 Keqing and I have a harder time clearing abyss with them than a full 4 star taser time. I think im doing something wrong
😭
CN already doing this since 1.0. That's why I always laugh at TC like Zajef and fake TC like tenten telling people to go horizontal.
I genuinely don't get the extreme love for Horizontal investment by EN TC
@@FliponYT there is this whole "f2ps prrefer new charc over weps/cons" take that has been propagating since the dawn of the game that annoys me to no end.
Everytime I see an account review and the reviewer sees a 5* wep, they immediately assume "not f2p". I have no idea what f2p are pulling every character they see.
i've highly invested in a few setups & its paid off in spades, for example, i've had hu-tao pretty much since i started playing; went from c0r2bane, r3bane tripled, r5bane, got yelan SPECIFICALLY for her, c1r1, double crowned my xingqiu, got instructors for my zhongli, i have elegy of the end which is for best boob venti but i put it on yelan in the abyss for more ht em, i also have simulacra, & my artifacts are really, REALLY hard to improve on her now (her main issue is just having 60 cr)
the only upgrades left that i think i can do is double crowning yelan & maybe getting jade cutter for xingqiu, or another homa for zhongli but i don't build him on damage so it'd be a waste (i do plan on going for jc since i want it for alhaitham too)
she is my strongest team & i always whip her out for the hardest stuff, mega reliable unit & she can clear with like 2 minutes 30 seconds for the other half if its a single target chamber (this happened with jadeplume 3.7 abyss)
my trusty c1r1 tripled ganyu is also a chad with c2r1 shenhe, i usually like to play mono cryo since my ayaka is mistsplitter but melt REALLY helped when i needed it this abyss
i'd say my childe internat is also highly invested atp & my xiao team as well
& those are just my big guys, my other units are all well-built & reliable, i triple-crowned alhaitham recently & i'm probably going to invest higher into his setup too so i can actually use him (bro's on HOD right now, with the most mid artifacts i need to upgrade him)
TLDR; from personal experience i recommend doing what flip flop says here its very effective & you'll always have 'those reliable teams' for when you really need them
anyways now sleep you edited for like 10 years probably
🍰
This is something I've been thinking about for some time now. Personally I definitely have a different philosophy- but I do think that there are multiple ways to succeed and it matters more what you personally prefer, whether you play for team building and variety or perfecting one or a few characters you REALLY like. I know personally if I was forced to play Raiden Hyper and Ayaka for the entirety of the game I would uninstall lmao. Whereas there are definitely some hardcore Ayaka mains who would player her until the end of time.
First thing is that I don't count artifacts as vertical investment really. You mentioned getting 2 offensive subs on all 5 pieces could be equivalent to a signature, but after a certain point of investment (like 30-ish offensive rolls, maybe around 200 CV) the amount of resin needed to actually do that is just enormous. After a certain point it kind of is "lady luck" whether your specific build has 30 or 40 offensive rolls. If you have a top 5% build or something, you could probably farm for a decade and still have a decent chance of not getting an upgrade. Zy0x has farmed vermillion so much and yet he hasn't seen an upgrade in so long. I don't feel like it's really a big deal to maybe use a few weeks worth of resin to build someone else that you're curious about rather than basically getting nothing anyways from artifacts. So to me, the bulk of vertical is signature weapon and constellations.
I think one thing that is understated is that people can clear abyss *and clear comfortably* without vertical investment. Last abyss (which many people called the hardest ever) I cleared every chamber in under 2 minutes with teams that had no 5 star weapons and no 5 star cons at all. That literally gives you a whole minute of breathing room a chamber. Meanwhile I know of people who struggled with c2 Raiden and/or c2 Nahida. At the end of the day, my personal experience is that imperfect play and rotation misalingnment, not pure DPS, is almost always the reason why people don't 36 star when they could.
The other thing I want to point out is that whilst you can often "brute force" unsuitable chambers with vertical investment, it may also be not as easy or comfortable to do. Genshin's abyss constantly changes and highlights different team's strengths and weaknesses. Last abyss wasn't that good for International but I had huge success with Yae. This abyss first half is amazing for International.
I think a relatively extreme example would be trying to use Ayaka in 3.4 Chamber 12-1-1, 4 waves of ruin enemies. You could vertical invest, getting Mist, Shenhe, and maybe even cons. But you still had to deal with trying to bait the second ruin enemy into your burst, which was very RNG dependent and could be frustrating. Meanwhile a team that is very multiwave agnostic like 2 hydro hyperbloom or Alhaitham QB breezed through that chamber at similar times to a vertically invested Ayaka with much less trouble. So if you're a new player who, say, decided to go all in on Ayaka at the detriment of dendro teams, you might run into roadblocks where the abyss doesn't suit you. And even if you have the DPS to brute force, you might run into mechanical issues that require skill to overcome- and remember what I said about abyss? That skill is IMO one of the ultimate reasons why veteran accounts don't 36 star.
There is also third type of investment(my type): Brainrot investment
It means you build Nilou for aoe half and Nahida Hyperbloom for boss half and play only them until genshin ends.
Works literally every abyss(even in 3.7) but in sacrifice of your brain(can confirm, I became stupid)
I agree with your video, now I'll go vertically invest my em raiden for hyperbloom
Rot
Not sure vertical investment will ever be more valuable then horizontal as long as the floor of HB and National are so high and easy to clear with.
As it stands horizontal tends to be less risky and more fun cause well…you get to play with more units.
And also, problem with vertical is that no matter how high u try to reach(cv) theres a chance that u wont get it even after a year of camping a domain, srsly wheres my crit rate emblem that have functional stats. My xiangling stays 60:120 even after a year of farming and flip says his raiden is bad.
@@pplwhoreplyisorangutan8543well that and certain abyss’s might counter your units. But even then whatever because of one thing.
Regardless of what you chose to do H or V, you still end up respecting pull value if your a smart player and build meta ass units like Bennet kazu Nahida. If you go V or H you still probably have those units, and once you build meta teams with them congrats you won every abyss cycle ever. Wowie zowie. Almost like this entire debate is irrelevant as long as you get around to pulling at least some meta units that trivialize abyss.
Patient people: vertical investment
Normal: horizontal invest
Me: Zigzag investment: focus on a character but sprinkle some resins on some so I won't get bored.
I like to wish for as few characters as possible and therefore ive decided to not wish for Zhongli. The only character who actually wants him is mu Yoimiya and i can just use Layla.
I kinda do both. I have a few teams that I vertically invested into: Keqing Aggravate, Nilou Bloom, Ayaka Freeze, Mono Geo, and, more recently, Thundering Furry. But I also have a lot of characters built on the side to fill in certain slots when need be, and other teams that are kinda just there when I need them, like Hyperbloom, Double Hydro Hu Tao, Taser, Burgeon, etc. No reason not to in my opinion, as it’s just more options and helps with burnout.
Also, I have two accounts, which is why and how I have so many vertically invested teams.
Personally I only pull on banners that will add value to my account. My last 3 5 stars were kazuha, Nahida, and yelan. My wife pulls everytime she gets 1600 primos no matter the banner. I don't have as many characters to play but I have better quality to play. We each play our own ways and have fun.
I have only ever even consider vertical investment. I only need enough characters to build 2 teams, and the number of characters I really like is less than 8 anyway.
So I'm all in on vertical investment - got one team of hyperbloom meta units I didn't really want just to run on the other side of abyss.
best way to go is just to horizontally invest into all of the good chars like kazu, nahida, xq, etc and then when you have the essentials built, start vertically investing from favorite/best downward
a cracked out Childe ain't gonna do you shit on national if your xiangling isn't built
I'm convinced you're me from another timeline:
We both stan our queen Fischl 👑
We both main Eula 🍑
We both refuse to build the disgrace known as em Raiden 👎
And you're also stealing my hydro wife from fontaine 😤
I'm not stealing Furina is rightfully mine. But yes you are also a brother in based
I've mainly done vertical investment as a f2p. I don't see the point of getting 5*s that I think will just get benched so I don't play waifu pokemon in genshin.
I pulled Xiao on his first banner and just devoted all of my resin to him and that paid off in spades. That one dude carried my account for years since I invested in his artifacts and I got a Homa from that baller og Homa/WGS banner. Then when I saw new characters come out I was like does this help my xiao team? If not how long would it take for me to get this new character to the power level of my Xiao and is that worth it to me?
Btw, it's not even just that you can brute force things with big pp numbers, it's also like once your characters are strong enough you can completely scuff up the team comps for the elemental checks and be fine. Like I've literally only built Dendro Traveler as far as Dendro goes, and I didn't put much into her and I've 36*-ed every abyss. Oh I need Electro for side 1? Guess my Ayaka team has Fischl in it now, etc. and still be able to clear all of it on the first try.
I found myself subconsiously doing a bit of both. Basically I have about 90% of the roster built to a usable degree (I like to play different teams often) but certain meta characters that I enjoy I went a bit further with. Things like Nahida's c2 since I enjoy all of the dendro reactions, Yelan's c1, Homa and c1 for Hu Tao, Elegy and Key for their buffing utility, r5 Serpent Spine for Eula. At the same time I've done silly things like farm a cracked clam set for Qiqi in spite of not really playing geo comps (a lot of useless husk pieces) or ending up with c2 Childe while trying to get a single copy of Rosaria on her release back in 1.4.
Going for the Rosa is honestly really based
it is true a lot of ppl suck at this game due to various reasons me too, but I think I will still prefer new characters, it makes me feel happy and fresh
I have been vertically investing to a point which is why I only have a total of 11 characters fully (pretty much I am still working to improve them) built after 9 months of playing. My teams do a ton of damage even though I am f2p but that is purely because it takes me a month to fully build a character. I didn't really think about it I have just been vertically investing because I don't want to build characters I won't use. My goal is 2 fully geared teams per version (like 4.0 - 4.8). I will admit last abyss I was not able to pass the element check because my 2 teams are alhaitham quick bloom and Nilou bloom. Luckily my Alhaitham actually is great on er as he has 5% extra at 140 when he only needs 135. Also how dare you hyper bloom is the best and kuki is my favorite character in the entire game.
Hyperbloom is the worst thing to happen to genshin
@@FliponYT I am a huge kuki simp so I disagree.
@@FliponYT Well it does allow me to play on field Qiqi which is hilarious. So much better than trying to use her as a Taser driver for the memes.
So what about..diagonal investment? How good is that?
It's a mix of both so it's really good too but really hard to sustain of you aren't a dolphin
When I was still early AR I invested fully into xiao, no supports. And then the quest with the wolf showed up...
My problem as a new player is that pretty much the only character i actually like more than the others is Beidou. I searched pretty much already and all cc put her as sub dps, but i want her onfield most of the time cause his kit is great. The other characters are fine but they are all the same to me xD they all have same playstyle
good points, as someone who has 1k+ days on genshin, my advice would be building 2 strong teams and try to farm for other "weaker" units (weaker as in investment in cons and sig weapons) this way u can somewhat get the best of both worlds.
Also i would say "just build whoever you like" but if you're the type who likes to clear everything, i'd suggest building the national core (xq xl bennet) first then go for a hyperbloom team afterwards cause after living in emblem domain for like 2 or 3 months u should have sufficient artifacts for ur national core, then u can go live another few months in deepwood domain xD
i personally never struggled in abyss since a patch after childe's first banner, literally managed to breeze thru 36* stars ever since (mobile player btw)
but this is what i did altho it took a very long time to be able to obtain this level of investment.
i'm now just a casual player nowadays as i don't have much time because of life but i still can easily 36* abyss
also waifu meta enjoyer here with c2r1 on my favourite units (ayaya, yelan, keq, nilou) (nilou just don't have her key but will get key in her next rerun)
I understand the feelings of pulling characters then I don't use much because I don't feel much fun using them aside I love them.
I have teams like Childe national, Mono Geo Itto, Eula team, Alhaitham Spread, Ayaka Freeze team, Ayato team and Cyno team. In the end, I usually go for Childe national since I enjoy the riptide effects, he's the only C2 character I have with R1 Polar Star.
Then, I would go either Ayato or Alhaitham... The rest, I'll either use them on floor 9-11 xD
As someone who didn't get Bennett, Fischl and Kuki until I was AR 55, and still do not have Xingqiu, I have personally just adapted to building and playing with characters I like. The abyss really doesn't concern me; I just do it once until I lose and then don't touch it until the next cycle
You likely already know this but save your starglitter.
@@Nowaylarry Well aware, but at this point I don't really care about getting him anymore
I've always been on the horizontal investment camp due to a lack of characters that i like, but nowadays i feel like i'm going to do mixed investment from no on. I'll still try to build the rest of my account even if scuffed, but I'm gonna be more picky with what I roll since I can cover every niche. I'll go for Navia and Arlechinno in Fontaine since they are my two favourite characters from the region but otherwise I think I might start saving for C2 Nahida, I use her a lot in a lot of teams so she would be a really safe investment, just as C2R1 Yelan was (my first vertical investment pulls), I also want to aim for Thundering Pulse and Key of Khaj Nisut, Yoimiya and Nilou both carry me through lot of abyss cycles so it makes sense to vertically invest into them, then everyone else build more casually, unless Navia or Arle are broken somehow and I realize I prefer playing them in Spiral abyss over Yoimiya or Nilou (a lot of things would need to happen for that). I hate that Raiden National is my fallback option in the rare cases Nilou and Yoimiya don't work because I hate playing that team
Vertical investment comes with time, Horizontal investment should come with strategic wishes investments.
If you play Genshin with limited real life resources then you must have a healthy mindset that you cannot collect them all as fast as possible. Watch some guides before pulling on a banner.
The video is informative and useful but
the only thing that I do not agree with the video is investing in weapon banner. I follow a strict rule of only a single 10 pull per good weapon banner (Both weapons could be useful in my most invested characters). Weapon banners could screw up your months worth of savings, it's almost like a sandpit that only whales can swim at this point.
It's better to see a new character than a new weapon.
In the end, it's important to have discipline and self control especially in Gacha games.
I like to get everyone up to 90 just for the hell of it, but will still try to use meta teams in abyss.
I couldn’t care less about the abyss and optimal gameplay, I just want to have fun in the open world with characters I like… I normally complete 9-11 just for the primos then leave 12 cause it’s not worth my time… I have completed 12 a few times just to prove to MYSELF I can, but it was harder than the other floors which I already felt isn’t fun content… I would really love some more open world endgame content, I don’t for the life of me understand why there isn’t something like the simulated universe in Genshin permanently. If simulated universe was a thing, I could see myself full clearing that every reset. They already have the blueprint, they have done rogue like gameplay in Genshin, just make it permanent… I wish they would revamp all the artifact farming to be more rogue like, maybe tweak how many drop to account for the extra time it takes to do them… what happens to Genshin when the story ends??
Vertical investment didn't stop me from struggling in 3.7 ... but that's mostly because in my case it doesn't include much in the way of healers and shielders
except for Sunfire Meltyu
that team's Ganyu+three healers
... none of which are built for healing
but that was on the back half where I didn't really struggle
On the one hand, I know this is right. On the other hand, the idea of pulling 5-star cons feels like shit. Tbh I have a decent number of 5-star weapons and I don't actually think there are that many constellations I could pull for the teams I use, I'm just massive skill issue sadge prayge for me
I prayge
I would say vertical investment is important but u need to know when to stop cs of how artifacts work and u reach platoing. For me it is 1-2 month on char and then it's more optimal and interesting to switch onto some other char.. I mean u need to know when ur artifacts "isn't upgradable", and so u can have both good vertical and horizontal investments. BTW that's some cracked Ganyu u have there, as a fellow Ganyu main myself - my respect
Personally, while i know vertical investment can be more efficient, I just like having flexibility and adaptability of horizontal investment.
One of the reasons is that big part of vertical investment is artifact grinding over minor substat improvement, which is HELL and I HATE IT. I’d rather have more teams with decent stats that I can put against content they are good at, rather than spend seven months trying to get my two invested teams good enough so they can bruteforce suboptimal for them content (but i still go and try to run Rosa rev melt against ASIMON because well i got SoSS instead of Elegy and I’M GONNA USE IT DAMMIT)
Flip you should do account reviews I think it be a good and funny series if you did
i wish i could go back to 2020 keeping my current game knowledge and change the decisions i made to my acc unfortunately thats not possible so what i can do is be more smart about the future. i also want to say that even if you never used your resin from 1.0 untill now and saved all your primogems to c12 dehya your acc would still be better than someone just starting now
Brute forcing every abyss with C3 R1 Hyper Raiden to the point where I skipped building dendro teams has been my joy as an FU to Hoyo’s beyond greedy move of releasing 4 stars that need C6.
I wish I knew how to do more theroy crafting. Flip makes it interesting, and fun but I don't know any of the math or resources.
the part where a lot genshin player sucks 4:37 pretty much sums up people who cant do floor 12 including me.
😭
Bro came here to tell me I'm dumb, I already know that 😢
7:06 and this is why you vertically invest into yae and alhaitham
Battle of mid
I think the advice you give here is amazing :D
wtf happened to that one cryo lector shield????
someone who has masters degree in elemental gayge theory please explainge that
5:20 you forgot to list Eula there to but other than that good video friendo
Bro thought we would laugh
@@FliponYTi laughed 😭
@@FliponYT
I'm just curious, how the hell do you use Keqing? Ever since Dendro i never bothered learning her Quicken teams and she's just there sitting at level 90 (back when i got her in 2020)
Damn this kinda did describe my exact problem, thanks, but i still want to pull tar tar Furina and yelan
Heh. I've been vertically investing in Eula ever since I got her very recently. Literally doing resin refreshes so that I'm unable to wish for other characters. 😏
My goat
Duuude side note: your nahida is cracked! Whats your buid?! 😄
I only pull characters I like, then I decide whether or not I want them to be stronger, which leads me to pulling characters I just want to buff the ones I like in terms of usability.
This heavily applies to weapons, why build or invest on something you don't like? Just for competition? Abyss? Ew, gross. At least enjoy yourself by liking the gameplay and the things you're using.
Also Flip wtf was that joke with irl stuff lmao, cringe, bestie. :3
After finishing the whole video, I have to agree 👍.
I'd suggest having 2 characters of each element built up and maxed out over time. Picking up 5 star weapons for them where you can.
For example iv been playing since the beginning an I have 2 of the most op dps currently in the game ganyu an alhathem, but outside of that i only have like 4 other 5 stars cause i dont need them.
National team alone clears most abyass an then you add in a few good 4 stars like badiou an yaoyao or diona, i have all 3 😁, with cons..
The game plays itself.
If you go and build up multiple units without first triple crowning and 5 stars weaponing your other characters alongside some good artifscts, then you havnet even begin to fully appreciate what all that does for a character 👍
An how much of a difference it makes on the game.
Just my opinion. You do you
C6R1 Dehya, Im so glad I did it. The only regret I have is just I wasn't able to get R5 Beacon
I will have a family of 24 before my resin resets so I can grind again. I LOVE GENSHIN RAGHHHHH
1:13 Giving to the poor, you mean? Nothing needed to be censored there.
Judging by thumbnail: I see Raiden. I see green thing. I see flying green things, I mean arrows.
It means I should build Raiden Hyperbloom(I did, bonked abyss, thank you)
Before even watching the video first comment is .
Abyss fooor 9 10 11 are a joke so yeah u don’t really need meta teams to clear and for floor 12 most teams can get at least 3 to 6 stars on it with good investment.
so ask urself this is that 50 promis worth ?
Those who like the challenge sure go ahead invest in good unites and vertically in them if needed .
But most people really don’t care about that 50 primos anymore it is honestly not worth the pain u go threw especially since last abysses .
Hey Flip I'm trying to use my Eula more in abyss, what team do you usually use with her? And how are you able to get your burst back with 112 ER%?
My team consists of Fav Zhongli, Fav Rosa and almost 300er Raiden so it's enough to burst with little er. Replacing Zhongli with someone like Layla/Diona also effectively gives you a 0 er req on Eula.