I like when the game balance is so shitty they have to rework characters that have existed and been fine in the game since launch ei. Reaper, Reinhardt.
Reworks are fun, I don't think anyone complained about Orisa, Hog, or Pharah being reworked. It's just a sign that the game has changed and the devs are active. At this point people are just hating to hate.
@dimentioo i think he's complaining about the fact that it NEEDS changed, not that it is changing. There is a difference, which is, the game is so powercrept that some base OW1 heros are useless
People need to stop spitting that "designed around 6v6" garbage. They literally just invent shit that they think looks cool and go with it. You think double shields was considered before it happened? Or that flash bang was ever not broken?
@@johnnymeansiiactually yes. There are dev blogs and interviews released back in OW1 alpha/beta/early launch days that extensively delves into the reasons they went with 6v6, including making it easier to balance tanks, promoting team work, and making it so that no one person on the team has too much responsibility that if they do poorly you can't win the game. The original devs built the mechanics, modes, heroes, and systems entirely around the 6v6 format.
@@asimplewizard5v5 dick riders forget that Jeff’s team already tried 5v5 and 7v7 internally. The game didn’t feel great and 6v6 was what they stuck with
@@johnnymeansiidouble shield and goats were never nearly as unfun as the state of the game currently. And frankly I don't ever remember a time when flash was the most pressing thing in the game
The only thing they adressed is Counterswaps happen in 5v5 and their answer basically is "Uhh we need to balance so counterswaps dont happen every death, but OW is a team game so counterswaps shouldnt matter" Like... thats not the reality
The devs don't even play the game so how can they really understand the issues that plague it? I already stopped taking the game seriously. No point when the devs don't understand thier own game, in that moment the game becomes a joke.@@heiko2255
I enjoy the gameplay of 6v6 but I feel like I remember waiting like 5-10 mins for matches unless I played tank. I wonder if queue times could be a reason it’s not coming back
@@cadenelson7295 interesting, I'm still waiting 5-10 minute queues even in 5v5 🤔 weird! Its almost like queue times were bad back in ow1 due to content drought and the fact that they NEVER nerfed brigg or bap which enabled double shield.
A note about 6v6 and double shields...that was based off Orisa/Sigma comps. Orisa no longer has shields and of all the tanks that have been added Ram is the only one to be given a physical shield. It is almost assured that double shield would not be an overpowered meta in a 6v6 landscape nowadays. On top of that...double shield was only as aggressively hated in the community because it was the meta that existed after Blizzard abandoned OW1 so it was the meta the game was stuck with for the 2+ years we were in limbo.
A lot of the fault also lied in Brigitte and Baptiste. Two characters that made it impossible to dismantle the comp. But they'll never acknowledge the support's fault with the situation.
6v6. I have never enjoyed OW2 for even a fraction of the amount I loved OW1, specifically because I loved pairing with a second tank and loved being a support who had at least one tank who could peel. I went from playing all the time to only playing to finish battle passes so I can stop playing OW until the next season and instead focus on games that don’t make me miserable. The fact that I am still hanging around shows just how strong original OW was as a game.
I think this is the main problem with ow2. Game was designed for 6v6. They don’t have a true definition of what a tanks purpose is. Half the tanks don’t provide a barriers but they have some sort of speed or drive capability. They’re more like dps with a higher health pool. This is why they can’t find a balanced spot for the game. It’s throwing everything off.
Yeah for sure, I had to stop playing specifically cause I was getting tired of 50% of my games having a Doom or Wrecking Ball that just never played with the team. It's only gotten worse recently, after a couple weeks break I felt like playing a few games, I kid you not 9 out of the 10 games I played I had a Doom or Wrecking Ball that went off and did their own thing, I'd see them in the spawn room and then never again. No amount of changes made to them will fix this because they were pretty much made to be this way, and changing them too much removes the entire point of the heroes, having another tank is the only thing that can help.
Hating 5v5 is just a meme at this point. Something to latch onto when you hate the game you play. You'll go back to 6v6 and find something new to whine about.
if they add 6v6 back we will enter the final stage of "what was the point of overwatch 2" drama the obvious answer is just to update the monetization model
@@JumpsOwof cores they were, we got like 3 free ones a week and another each level. I never had to drop a dime on overwatch 1 past the $20 to buy the game. Never understood the loot box hate.
Devs, please just run the experiment and put 6v6 in a quick play hacked or a two 2 week event and send it into the community. Let your players get their own two cents in and talk about it. Either we will want more of it or feel its not what is going to be enjoyable. There is no shame in the scientific method learning something that proves your understanding of something wrong or flawed.
Blizzard: "We'd like to do that buuut. ... We wont cause we're afraid we'll have to make drastic changed" or Blizzard: "We want to make the '2' in 'Overwatch 2' feel special. (aka we dont want to make 6v6 come back)"
@@syvulpieThey killed pve which was the only thing justifying that “2” but content creators are good at muddying the waters and keeping the fans nice and gullible.
@@syvulpie At this rate the only reason the 2 exists is going free to play, updated graphics, digital currency micro transactions, and a battle pass. None of these additions constitutes it as a squeal in my book.
Sad that the devs are still avoiding 6v6, which many many many people in the community ask them about But its a good thing they are not shutting it down with a comment like "6v6 isnt returning", that tells me they are keeping their options open to maybe go back someday
I highly highly doubt 6v6 ever returns (although I think OW does not last without it) and my guess is they won’t say “6v6 isn’t coming back” because that sort of hard and fast ignorance of the player base would push many people away from the game entirely
@@Dc_123_dc I mean, i already only play once or twice per week because i still at its core like the game Them just admiting 6v6 doesnt return, wouldnt push me away more, im already barely playing Idk, i cant find any other real idea to why they dont talk about it, they even act like its the end of the world and 6v6 is the most evil thing ever
@@heiko2255 I’m not saying people don’t play but to draw a line in the sand on a passionate topic for the community will naturally alienate at least some people
They sold the idea of ow2 on pve and 5v5. Pve was already dropped. Going back to 6v6 would be kind of admitting that the 2 on the title was mainly done to change the monetization model.
imo it will happen eventually but only around 2026 with the 10 year anniversary of the game. they will probably call it vanillawatch, charge for it and rake in the money.
Along with the barriers issue (which would then turn into Rein, Sig, Sym, Brig barriers all over), making the DPS passive need to be removed or else supports will not be able to heal anyone since they need to pour health now into two tanks, have all tanks get their HP cut by a large portion for balancing, also fights generally lasting far longer due to more targets meaning damage output would need to be adjusted all over again
@@drbiohazmat So you're justifying their sunk cost. Yeah, so are they, that's why they haven't reverted to 6v6 and keep going deeper and deeper 10 seasons later into reworking and balancing heroes for 5v5. Btw, the shield issue was easily fixable. Restrictions are nothing new, restrict 1 barrier tank per team and buff the tanks around that, or yk, reworks - which Orisa needed and got first thing OW2 anyway and she was the BIGGEST double shield offender because she could be aggressive while shielding. The reason it didn't get addressed is because the devs were already focused on OW2, updates slowed to a halt, and not enough effort was put into addressing the issues the game had (CC abundance and spam and double shield), not because it was unfixable or a huge balancing challenge. 5v5 has proven to be a much more major challenge for the team than 6v6 was already proving to be by the end of OW1 because of the nature of the change requiring an entire restructure and rebalancing of almost 40 heroes - maps that have been reworked included. It also made tanking more miserable and introduced nearly unfixable issues of counterswapping. Imo, these are worse and harder to address than any prob OW1 had and needed to be addressed regardless of the format.
Screw 6v6. One's impact as a player is way smaller compared to 5v5, which feels awful if you solo queue. The clarity of what's happening in a team fight also suffers
Been wanting the old aim mechanic of flash for the longest. I don’t mind the hinder mechanic, but the magnetic aspect needs to go bad. Let it be a short range ability that activates upon explosion
Mag nade feels straight up RNG sometimes. So many of the targets that I need to hit with it just straight up outrun it. I like the reliability and skillshot aspect of just aiming it
@THY from the other perspective, there are also many moments where you have heroes like Tracer or Doom zoom around and the grenade just seems to follow us beyond where it makes any sense to even after some changes to it. It's just a feel-bad ability all around.
@@OrphanHart I feel that. Nobody complained about landing flashbang, they just didn't like the stun. Also, giving it so much damage was weird but now that health pools are bigger I guess it's fine
its so much more frustrating and inconsistent to use than flashbang was, at least once per game as cass i get a nade that looks like it definitely should not have stuck but still did somehow
Disabling hero swap might be the worst idea I’ve ever heard. Would kill the game no questions. Maybe limited swap or a time delay, but no swap is madness.
No hero swap would be the worst experience ever. There are some team comps that would just get absolutely dumped on from others and some characters that get absolutely destroyed by specific characters. Imagine playing a comp that’s mostly close range and no hitscan only for the enemy to have pharah echo and mercy.
Sounds great! Enjoy getting counter picked at the start of the game and never getting to counter play! I'm sure you wouldn't be angry at aaaall when players start checking your profile before the games even start pick heroes to counter you every single game. Even better if you're a one trick!
That last question answer was so cooked 💀💀 they don’t even have a real answer. They just dance around and said “we want to continue to be stubborn and keep the game shit”
Imagine if Ball's adaptive shield formed a physical barrier around him (sort of like Winston's shield, but Ball's version moves around with him) instead of giving overhealth. The barrier's HP would still be determined by how many enemies are nearby, ofc.
Overwatch here telling us we don't REALLY know whats happening and don't really see any of the issues they see. Thats why allot of the time they don't respond to feedback and input on balancing... Meanwhile we got Ex-Arrow head CEO Johan asking everyone "hey guys. What kind of stratagems would YOU like in the game?" Feels like a night and day difference to me in terms of how to handle your players. Of course, i understand that one is a PvE and the other is a PvP but when was the last time we got asked from Blizzard what we wanted and they delivered without some sort of scummy extra thing on top? I play both games but damn, this kind of stuff throws me back into appreciting arrow head.
@@bui3415in a competitive match sure,but it’s NOT fun to play non meta heros and get shutdown or hard countered every match,god forbid I do well as doom and the enemy team switches to sombra,mcree Moria,Mauga or orisa
It's like telling people to play Poker with a deck of Uno cards. Sure, you can write new rules and assign new roles for each card in order to get a somewhat working game of Poker going, But at the end of the day you're still playing with Uno cards, designed specifically for Uno (and games within the Uno family). Wouldn't it be easier to play a game the cards were designed for? Wouldn't it be easier to play a game the way it was originally designed?
With regards to "getting the old Hanzo back", I can confidently say that the vast majority of Hanzo mains would prefer smaller arrows that can oneshot. Rewarding aim + prediction more, rather than running closer to the enemy team and spamming at the tank. He has 100% been forgotten. Imo, they either need to revert him back, or rework him completely with a quiver of trick arrows.
@@bui3415 I mean hes not wrong, 90% of hanzo players dont want him the way he is. What would u prefer a hanzo who duos with a mercy and one shots everyone on top of barely dying due to pocket with 2x the arrow size or a hanzo with one shot and harder to land arrow. Either way hanzo is shit and anyone who dies to him deserved it ngl same for dying to a widow.
one thing they dont ever address is that they eliminated a tank role and didnt give tanks anything to compensate for it. there is a psychological comfort to having someone else in your role, you can also complement each other's strengths and weaknesses and *not all of the pressure is on you* to perform. switching to 5v5 is something the players never asked for, and has been something the devs have constantly had to try and prove is superior. they could easily have data on this by providing a 6v6 mode with two spots in each role, but i guess they are just super catholic about their 5v5.
My main issue with Hanzo is his play style before was to take angles and one shot surprised heroes. Everyone was complaining about Hanzo spam but I feel like now without one shot and the decrease storm cooldown his play style rewards spam shots more than well placed targeted shots
Can't believe I'm saying this, but, thank god flashbang is coming back... And also just wanna point out that the devs specifically pointed out 5v5 as the reason why counterwatch is a thing and the question did not mentioned it.
@@Micha-ds5vyit'll slow and hinder not stun, just that it'll be short range and exploding rather than a missile that can somehow do 270degrees turn and still stick to someone, so that's definitely a win.
I've said it before and I'll say it now. Reapers Shadowstep should have been more like Ventures Burrow, only with the added effect of being able to climb walls for a short period of time. It stays in line with his character abilities, and would look similar to his wraithform in Sombras debut video.
The problem with Bastion getting an ultimate like what was in Mirrorwatch is it just adds to the amount of things players have to shoot that aren't actually other players. It's like a pseudo-shield in that sense. Imagine having turret heroes, a turret healer, Bastion's bots running around, and a tank's shield all getting in your way during one game. It's fun in a PVE scenario, but can lead to lots of frustration in PVP.
they didnt even answer the hanzo question. they said we know how satisfying headshots were but nothing about his solo viability and his reliance on mercy. hes striaght up weaker rip game
i love how they just feel like rewarding people who put zero effort in the game . headshots take an insane amount of skill to hit the best way i think it would have been to give him the same nerf as widow to avoid random headshots from long range
The only role really benefitting from 5v5 is dps and even then that role still feels terrible. How many role passives and reworks do we need to undergo to bring up the question about 5v5 and 6v6?
There was always counters in this game, but it wasn't this extreme with 5v5. Like stylosa said 6v6 kept it a bit balanced in a way. The devs talking like swapping heroes to counter others is why people play the game. With OW yes you can swap heroes in the game, but it was cool because you can try and play whichever hero you want, not forcefully trying to see which hero can counter the problematic one on the enemy team. Now that happens in game and sometimes I personally be ok with it if it's a good game. But the devs acting like that's the soul of OW while not addressing the issue in that last question is wild.
Blizzard “due to players inability to position correctly and constant complaining we remove hanzo’s one shot but still let server admin widow to 1 tap you across the map from a safe place with no contest.”
I feel like if lifeweaver could charge his healing while shooting that would fix his whole kit. That delay between swapping the 2 just feels so clunky and frustrating in those times where you were charging a heal but get dove and you're stuck in that animation unable to react. If it's overturned just have him do miniscule damage like a tracer bullet
The wreaking ball changes to grapple are actually amazing. The shield transfer is interesting but niche. I'd rather see ammo buffs like 100/100 instead of 80/80 or more damage and slower fire rate.
Regarding them going crazier with Cassidy's kit to fit cowboys more, i assume his flashbang may have started from a stick of dynamite in development since that feels more "Wild West" due to mining during the cowboy age. Though it could also be due to bandits holding people up like a robbery. But for cowboys specifically, the only other things they could add that wouldn't be problematic (like a whip) would be a lasso to basically either be Hog's Hook or a weaker version that simply binds them in place.
@@bui3415 true, but not to this extent, and back then it was considerably easier to point out how to fix what's broken, though we didn't actually have an active dev team that would actually implement said fixes :/
This wat tf people talking about yall can rework everyone else basically but with reaper its only his shadow step? Like come tf on rework his whole kit in general to fit the 5v5
the worst part is, that discord and dmg boost still make tanking miserable and everyone only talks about the trends... its what happens when you fix 0 problems
Idk man but the whole avoiding the 6v6 debate and downplaying tank counterswapping issue tells me that there must be another reason they can't talk about. I'm thinking something around the current engine and server structure making it nearly impossible for them to go back to 6v6. Since now it's a F2P game, they would probably need to rework the engine and deploy a much more expensive server infrastructure. maybe the shareholders just say no to that. the engine and server structure going from Overwatch 1 to Overwatch 2 felt like a min max overall downgrade if you ask me, making it cheaper in maintenance cost whilst marketing it as an upgrade with all the new visual effects and hero designs. Idk, maybe something along the line.
They can't fix a lot of these problems with balance. Ball isn't going to realistically be fixed, he can't be full blown independent dive tank because then his team is left alone, he can't be a team focused tank because that completely removes his fundamental playstyle and uniqueness. You have the same thing with roadhog, his fundamental uniqueness and playstyle would have to be removed for him to be helpful to his team. It's the theme we keep seeing is that blizzard are slowly turning the tanks into these jack of all trades heroes in order for them to be viable. It seems like they would rather turn every tank into sigma than step back and realise that this game and it's heroes were fundamentally developed and designed in an environment where they had a teammate of the same role to assist and play off of. I don't want to be one of these 6v6 guys but the game keeps getting less fun to play and the development team seem so disconnected from what the player base enjoy and want. Not everyone wants 6v6, I can understand that simply because 6v6 was a more extreme version of overwatch, a bad meta in overwatch 1 had more of an oppressive feeling compared to a bad meta in overwatch 2, but the good metas in overwatch 1 just trump every good meta we've had in overwatch 2 in terms of straight fun. And that's coming from me as a dps player.
I have never seen a community come together like OW and 6v6 since Helldivers did that fuck up with the pan requirement, as days pass, I feel like more people are asking for 6v6
it's a vocal minority. people who are fine with how the game is aren't going to talk about it. only the people who have complaints are saying their opinions which makes it seem like most people share that opinion
@@mentarium9741 It's just.. More than before, that's what I'm referencing. I didn't really hear many talk about it, or even mention it, but now it seems like it's all people talk about.
@@StrafeY probably just since it's easier to focus on that one argument. since 6v6 was the original setup people would be split complaining on what they wanted changed. now with 5v5 people just cling to the hope of 6v6 since it's another option that we originally had. if we went back to 6v6 i'm sure there would be some saying going back to 5v5 would fix the new problems as well as just general mixed complaints as well
@@haiderz4510 As long as characters are free it will be manageable. But that’s what I fear the most tbh, i feel like they’ll want you to pay for them. If not, we’re in the clear.
@@okami1272 Honestly, the game is so much more fun and I had a blast playing it. There's more carry potential while at the same time you don't explode if you're good. Just needs polish (including performance) and some balancing is all. The thing is, Blizz has been just as greedy if not greedier than netease has been, let's be honest. Releasing OW2 under the guise of PvE was a major scam because they kept lying to players face about it coming even when they knew it was cancelled lol. Then they cancelled PvE Missions, and cancelled gauntlet the other day. They just keep cancelling anything that wasn't established by OW1, making OW2 a complete disgrace of a "second game." Let's not forget Blizz DID lock heroes behind a BP and unlocking, didn't allow easily re-earnable OW coins for the next BP, and man I could go on all day but that list is long. It's only S9 & 10 where things are *starting* to take a turn like Bungie. A new game like Rivals prob wouldn't have 10 seasons worth of failure to address problems stemming from greed because the playerbase isn't established whose invested tons of hours and effort and had their stuff transfer from a previous game - which Blizz has taken massive advantage of and been lucky has been the case - so Rivals either sinks or swims fast like Halo Infinite lol. ATM, MR has the potential to just be more fun and better than this mismanaged and re-released mess.
So here's an idea for Cassidy rework. I agree, get rid of this grenade. He's a cowboy. I take your whip, idea use it like RoadHog, Roadhog has super long chain, Cassidy will have a short reaching whip. Grabs the opponent in and he does his quick fire...BAM BAM BAM!!!!!
29:52 this is why I think they just need to do a 2 week test of 6v6. It would give them some good data. And if the data was in its favor, then it could be addressed and possibly added to the game in a permanent place along side the 5v5.
TBH, Flashbang was so much less frustrating than magnetic grenade simply because it had more counter play and didn't follow you halfway across the map. The Rein vs Cass mentals were insane.
If you could head shot them it was but flash fan was only good in gold/plat and even then it wasn't a consistent kill unless you were breathing down the neck of your target
@Micha-ds5vy No, it wasn't. You can jump to throw off the headshot follow up. You could also deflect and bait it out without it chasing you across the map. The only problem is that it locks your camera.
@@reesyloko5741 Exactly! And if you're that close to a Cass when they had flash up, well, it's at least partially your own fault for not keeping track of CDs!
Overbuff being accurate makes sense if you consider that scientific research is usually done with sample sizes and extrapolated. Granted they usually do it multiple time with different people, but considering a game community is usually smaller than the population of large countries it makes sense that Overbuff doesn't need multiple groups of people like researchers do to get accurate results.
saying overwatches problem was with double shield. In my opinion is a bad argument. When they could just limit each team to just one shield hero or make a new role just for shield tanks.
Double shield wasn't just two shield tanks. It was two tanks with placeable shields that would last until destroyed that also had an op sustain ability ie. Foritfy and Grasp. But that isn't even what held double shield together. It was brig bap with insane Aoe healing and immortality field which at the time lasted 7 - 8 seconds. If we do go back, it wouldn't work anyways. Orisa no longer has a shield and bap lamp doesn't last as long.
And people forget double shields was the answer to hitscan being oppressively dominant for too long. They were and still are broken with little counter play except out hitscan. Double shields and goats were the only form of counter play.
One idea I had during the mirror watch event was what if they made alternative kits for multiple heroes and then in competitive it would be a different set of kits each week, that way Metas are always in flux, I don't know how it would work with being able to play any kit in QP, maybe clear indications in tab.
"1v1 matchups are not the highest priority when assessing the heroes" - said when speaking about the tank counter swapping problem. This is 100 percent the right way to look at hero balance, in Overwatch 1. This game is not Overwatch 1. There is 1 tank on each team, it is a 1v1, the tanks HAVE to be balanced on a 1v1 basis because that is how the game is now. It wouldn't be that much of an issue, but the tanks are 3 times the power level of the dps or the supports. A lot of the tanks can take 2 and 3v1s against dps and supports and win with relative consistency. You cannot have the most powerful heroes in the game not be balanced on a 1v1 basis when they are quite literally in a 1v1. That's genuinely crazy that a developer has said that. You have 2 options in my mind to fix the tank counter swap problem, You can either: Rework every tank hero so they are all jack of all trades... Kind of like they are trying to do to be honest. The huge downside to this however is it monumentally removes the fun and uniqueness from near enough every tank in the game, which would be a huge shame when you have heroes like Reinhardt that are pretty much perfectly designed video game heroes. Have an extra tank player, spreading the counter swapping burden across 2 players and allowing skill expression between the two players to more effectively outplay soft counters. The negative to this marketing and general slander from the gaming community for failing to make 5v5 work, but at this point it seems like the overwatch team kind of enjoy it. It's kind of like when you're trying to chat up a girl that's clearly not interested in you, but all your friends are watching so you don't want to give up, the longer you stand there trying to talk to her, the worse it looks but you don't want to swallow your pride and accept defeat. Honestly though if anyone has any other ideas of how they could fix the tank counter swap issue I'd love to hear it, I didn't believe in going back to 6v6 until someone explained it to me.
Giving the petal damage reduction AND the option to raise and by how much with the interact button would be amazing. IE you can keep it on the ground and get damage reduction or hit interact like with the teleporter and raise it to whatever level you desire
For Bastions ult they should have a CGI trailer release where it shows Bastion, Brig, and Torb, doing stuff in the workshop and we see either Bastion working on one or it’s in the background Since he’s not with the uprising omnics anymore he probably wouldn’t have slicers right? So create new little robots that he crafted and they go around doing damage and/or doing stuff like, idk tracking? Like they’re going around scanning enemies and it either gives a Hanzo arrow effect, or maybe they slow enemies helping him land his grenades Or maybe they damage enemies and make it where your ion grenade tracks the enemy like a Cass’ grenade used to, then probably nerf the grenade a bit + give him more to use (like junk rats mines) then probably also nerf his primary fire capacity or something
The argument that 6v6 is a bad idea because of double shields etc could be solved so easily nowadays! Something like if someone selects sigma the other tank cannot select ramatra Reinhardt or Winston and vice versa! You can have two off tanks play if you want but never too main tanks. So you could have one person that selects the main tank like when you're picking the heroes that guy clicks Reinhardt or clicks ramatra clicks Winston they are set is main tank the other person can go Wrecking ball, Doomfist, Orissa, junker Queen diva and the problem is solved. I play open que over roll que all the time because it's more fun to play with another tank than it is to play alone getting your ass ripped in half solo tanking and getting blamed for everything. When you lose every single placement match on tank you don't want to play tank anymore , But when you play open cue and you can play as a tank and you have your friends with you It's fun and 90% of the time you never have games where people going three tanks because it's inefficient. If the enemy team has more DPS then they have tanks especially with the new passive and if the enemy is only have two supports they lose especially with how many counterable DPS there are for each tank. It's just a stupid argument that needs to go away especially since Ramattras shield is temporary only ones that are semi-permanent are Reinhardt sigma . Just make it so your team can't have a Reinhardt and sigma on the same team. You know there's so many ways to go around it and just have the lower health tanks like they have in open queue and it's easy! it's solved! I want you open queue avoiders to give open to a try but with a group of people and try it with two tanks one DPS and two supports It's fun as fuck.
I hate the fact that she is just a point and hold and free damage. Takes no skilll at all and screws over very difficult to play character like genji. I hate this dev team
i think they should bring the 6v6 as an optional mode in both qp and competitive, since there's a lot of people that thinks 6v6 is better but there's also people that thinks 5v5 is better, i wouldn't mind playing 6v6, but i hate when games don't give you options...
Hanzo should lead into his backshot from storm arrows. Give it a bounce indicator to make it easier to hit. He can still be a mid range assassin that way, just with more interaction from the enemy
It's almost like taking characters made for duo-tank synergy and put them into a single tank game would make them......almost no fun at all or completely impossible to balance? Crazy how that works! I hope that someone makes a OW1 clone. Loved that game above all others and would play it as long as no massive corpa made it.
im curious with the counterswap situation if the tanks needs to swap, why loose so much of their ult charge? what if they could keep a higher procentage of ult charge, that way it could open up a higher possibility to still use "worse" tanks against better just because of the the ult posibility. but maybe thats a poor idea.
what does it for me is that they dont have a PTR anymore so these changes go in and we have to deal with them until they are either hotfixed out or nerfed ie sigma LOS buff, roadhog rework, etc.
Tanks should get more health but do less damage a tank like hog oneshotting is rly annoying if you as hanzo can't even oneshot anymore. Next point give hanzo oneshot back, make venture more skill based and than buff her i think i didn't keep up on that i just heread she is something in the middle or whatever. In my opion reaper is made to be a tankk shredder but he should hvae some major weaknesses to get punished by the other dps if he plays bad. healers are actually fine i think maybe mercy needs some love. Actually i think season 3 or what it was was the most fun i think their should try to go in that direction again
I main Lifeweaver and personally that "rework" sounds more like a buff. Although the platform change where teammates get a buff would give him something other than healing and DPS, it doesn't seem like there will be any actual changes to his play style. To me these changes sound like smoke and mirrors to give us expectations that might not even come to fruition
Devs: ""unhealthy" and "unpopular" designs aren't necessarily the same thing" Me: _side eyes Ana, a very popular hero with the 2 most unhealthy abilities in the entire game_ No, seriously. The old devs were so allergic to touching Ana's biotic grenade (aka the first non-ult burst heal in the game) that they COMPLETELY REWORKED Overwatch's combat pacing/TTK to accommodate it. This included GUTTING the tank role's autonomy _(tanks aren't allowed to be durable on their own anymore, they're now extremely dependent on burst-healing for survival),_ kickstarting a vicious cycle of damage/healing creep, & setting a precedent for future support design where having "crazy amounts of burst-healing and/or immortality on a cooldown" is REQUIRED to keep up with the powercreep that bionade started. And to add insult to injury: All of this has made healing in general far less satisfying & fun to use. Triage healing as a playstyle was incredibly popular when OW1 first came out, but that was only possible because combat lasted longer with a slower overall ttk (at least when ults weren't being used). Speeding up Overwatch's ttk to contest the crazy levels of burst healing has made _non-burst healing_ (and triage as a skillset in general) is far less impactful - fights are over too quickly for sustain/trickle heals to make much of a difference, regardless of how efficiently you managed them.
Stop calling, adding a new ability with some tweaks, a 'rework!' A rework is overhauling the ENTIRE identity of the character where they play DRASTICALLY different than the previous version! These are QoL changes, though its arguable that they aren't necessarily quality changes as we can see with wrecking ball where it changed nothing about him.
As a Hanzo player, the one major annoyance I have with his current position is simply due to the fact that he cannot 1 shot heroes that should be 1 shottable regardless. I call them "Infiltrator Heroes" These heroes are Tracer and Sombra. Sombra has invis, Tracer can blink a long distance in a fraction of a second. Of these 2 heroes, only 1 of them can be 1 shot by current Hanzo - Tracer. While I understand the hatred for 1 shot Hanzo, it does concern me that we're currently in a state of the game where so many heroes can comfortably waltz into the backline and challenge a Hanzo while knowing they can take a minimum of 2 shots from Hanzo. While most of these can be dealt with since they have to use their abilities to get to Hanzo in the first place, Sombra has invisibility to get in and a teleporter to get out. This wasn't an issue when she used to be 1 shot by Hanzo, but now she can confidently go into a Hanzo 1v1 knowing she can take a maximum of 3 shots from Hanzo before dying, worst case scenario 2 shots if the first one is a headshot. So now you have a sudden inflow of Sombras who brainlessly dive into Hanzo players knowing that it is literally impossible for the Hanzo to punish them unless there is a Mercy pocketing him. Hanzo buff dps or Sombra nerf health, I'll be happy.
Very poor answer to dodge the unfixable flaw of 5v5. "We don't care" would have been a better, shorter and more honest answer. Also completely dodged the question on passive heroes like lifeweaver and mercy's negative affect on the game. At least they will look at hog. When can we have 2 tanks back tho
5v5 made it so there is one less hero to interact with on each side and the tank is a waste of time to shoot at in many situations. You also never ever win vs a tank that can just appear in front of you due to the (too) many mobility skills tanks have. That's why many people think 6v6 was better. Also, tanks do more dmg than DPS... if that's not an easy indicator for a design flaw, then I don't know what is.
Why so much hate here? 6v6 days were cool, but 5v5 is also cool. Yes, 5v5 does create problems that 6v6 didnt have but 6v6 had its own glaring flaws. We dont need to constantly fantasize about the devs being "too prideful to admit they are wrong with 5v5" Just work on the here and now, lets make this game better as it stands now.
My issue is the maps and game modes junk city needs a major rework when there’s only one spawn and they other team can just sit in front of your spawn and stop u from getting to point
People: *Play a hero they like* Devs: "Seems a lot of people play that hero, looks like we need to nerf it" People: *Play it anyways* Devs: "Seems we need more nerfs" The hero in question: 💀💀💀
I don't think I've heard of any team of developers that deserve to be fired more than these ones. Yet so many good developers are out here losing their jobs because they released successful things.
You know that hanzo voice line he talks about being better with a sword? I think they should come out with a cinematic cut scene where he forgives himself for “killing” his brother and picks up the sword. And have his rework be a new Melee character with sword play.
I like when the game balance is so shitty they have to rework characters that have existed and been fine in the game since launch ei. Reaper, Reinhardt.
And instead of fixing the balance, they’d rather butcher the OW1 characters
Reworks are fun, I don't think anyone complained about Orisa, Hog, or Pharah being reworked. It's just a sign that the game has changed and the devs are active. At this point people are just hating to hate.
@@idkype_7142no. You're wrong. Nice try Aaron😂
are you rlly complaining that reaper’s useless teleport (which was also useless in ow1) is being reworked?
@dimentioo i think he's complaining about the fact that it NEEDS changed, not that it is changing. There is a difference, which is, the game is so powercrept that some base OW1 heros are useless
ahh sorry guys - i just noticed some slight editing mistakes on the text overlays towards the end of the video - sorry about that 😅
You got flashbanged too
It's ok we still love you
@@natomiltary4573 yea lol
@@stylosayou saying you're trash in text chat made me laugh, nooo you're the goat buddy
@@OceanicOwl aww 🥲
its almost like taking characters designed around 6v6 and trying to force them into 5v5 irrevocably breaks them no matter what you do
People need to stop spitting that "designed around 6v6" garbage. They literally just invent shit that they think looks cool and go with it. You think double shields was considered before it happened? Or that flash bang was ever not broken?
@@johnnymeansiiactually yes. There are dev blogs and interviews released back in OW1 alpha/beta/early launch days that extensively delves into the reasons they went with 6v6, including making it easier to balance tanks, promoting team work, and making it so that no one person on the team has too much responsibility that if they do poorly you can't win the game.
The original devs built the mechanics, modes, heroes, and systems entirely around the 6v6 format.
@@asimplewizard5v5 dick riders forget that Jeff’s team already tried 5v5 and 7v7 internally. The game didn’t feel great and 6v6 was what they stuck with
@@johnnymeansiidouble shield and goats were never nearly as unfun as the state of the game currently. And frankly I don't ever remember a time when flash was the most pressing thing in the game
@@rainer9931 imagine a current meta lasting as long as double shield did.
>flashbang is back
>symmetra rework
Next step is announcing that the next event will be junkerstain's revenge and that 2 cp is back xd
Ill take 2cp over push, never really hated it personally
Gimme back 2CP. Take flash point and push.
symmetra isnt getting a rework
@@polar6066 let me dream of a better time
Give it a year or so and we’ll probably get another sombra rework- god knows she’s had enough already
If the devs aren’t gonna address 6v6 vs 5v5 they might as well not have done this or any dev update for that matter.
The only thing they adressed is Counterswaps happen in 5v5 and their answer basically is "Uhh we need to balance so counterswaps dont happen every death, but OW is a team game so counterswaps shouldnt matter"
Like... thats not the reality
The devs don't even play the game so how can they really understand the issues that plague it? I already stopped taking the game seriously. No point when the devs don't understand thier own game, in that moment the game becomes a joke.@@heiko2255
Already this deep no point in changing the whole landscape back again
@@bob-ot8plSunk cost fallacy
@@bob-ot8plok blizz employee😂
They'll do ANYTHING BUT bring back 6v6
They won’t admit they are wrong too prideful
I enjoy the gameplay of 6v6 but I feel like I remember waiting like 5-10 mins for matches unless I played tank. I wonder if queue times could be a reason it’s not coming back
@@cadenelson7295 The game also didn't get updated for 2 years, so that might have been a factor
@@cadenelson7295 interesting, I'm still waiting 5-10 minute queues even in 5v5 🤔 weird! Its almost like queue times were bad back in ow1 due to content drought and the fact that they NEVER nerfed brigg or bap which enabled double shield.
They will die on the 5v5 mountain, until they wanna revive themselves with 6v6. At least were getting closer day by day.
A note about 6v6 and double shields...that was based off Orisa/Sigma comps. Orisa no longer has shields and of all the tanks that have been added Ram is the only one to be given a physical shield. It is almost assured that double shield would not be an overpowered meta in a 6v6 landscape nowadays. On top of that...double shield was only as aggressively hated in the community because it was the meta that existed after Blizzard abandoned OW1 so it was the meta the game was stuck with for the 2+ years we were in limbo.
notice how no 5v5 supporters have replied to this comment since they truly have no argument against this point
A lot of the fault also lied in Brigitte and Baptiste. Two characters that made it impossible to dismantle the comp. But they'll never acknowledge the support's fault with the situation.
No. People quit even when it was just Winston/Rein/Orisa because of shields.
@@bui3415 those aren’t comps
6v6 will just turn into 5v5 but both teams also have a default DVA.
6v6. I have never enjoyed OW2 for even a fraction of the amount I loved OW1, specifically because I loved pairing with a second tank and loved being a support who had at least one tank who could peel. I went from playing all the time to only playing to finish battle passes so I can stop playing OW until the next season and instead focus on games that don’t make me miserable. The fact that I am still hanging around shows just how strong original OW was as a game.
I loved the synergy between the tanks.
I think this is the main problem with ow2. Game was designed for 6v6. They don’t have a true definition of what a tanks purpose is. Half the tanks don’t provide a barriers but they have some sort of speed or drive capability. They’re more like dps with a higher health pool. This is why they can’t find a balanced spot for the game. It’s throwing everything off.
Shut upppppppp
Yeah for sure, I had to stop playing specifically cause I was getting tired of 50% of my games having a Doom or Wrecking Ball that just never played with the team.
It's only gotten worse recently, after a couple weeks break I felt like playing a few games, I kid you not 9 out of the 10 games I played I had a Doom or Wrecking Ball that went off and did their own thing, I'd see them in the spawn room and then never again. No amount of changes made to them will fix this because they were pretty much made to be this way, and changing them too much removes the entire point of the heroes, having another tank is the only thing that can help.
Hating 5v5 is just a meme at this point. Something to latch onto when you hate the game you play. You'll go back to 6v6 and find something new to whine about.
if they add 6v6 back we will enter the final stage of "what was the point of overwatch 2" drama
the obvious answer is just to update the monetization model
🎯
Just release Overwatch 1 😂
With all its glory and loot boxes
@@ChaosDragon2.0 Crazy how loot boxes were better than what we have
😂😂😂😂🤣😐
@@JumpsOwof cores they were, we got like 3 free ones a week and another each level. I never had to drop a dime on overwatch 1 past the $20 to buy the game. Never understood the loot box hate.
@@jwall1646also you get 3 every event and depending on edorsement you could get more loot boxes. It was good system.
Devs, please just run the experiment and put 6v6 in a quick play hacked or a two 2 week event and send it into the community. Let your players get their own two cents in and talk about it. Either we will want more of it or feel its not what is going to be enjoyable.
There is no shame in the scientific method learning something that proves your understanding of something wrong or flawed.
Blizzard: "We'd like to do that buuut. ... We wont cause we're afraid we'll have to make drastic changed" or
Blizzard: "We want to make the '2' in 'Overwatch 2' feel special. (aka we dont want to make 6v6 come back)"
@@syvulpieThey killed pve which was the only thing justifying that “2” but content creators are good at muddying the waters and keeping the fans nice and gullible.
@@syvulpie At this rate the only reason the 2 exists is going free to play, updated graphics, digital currency micro transactions, and a battle pass. None of these additions constitutes it as a squeal in my book.
We don't want double shield ffs
Sad that the devs are still avoiding 6v6, which many many many people in the community ask them about
But its a good thing they are not shutting it down with a comment like "6v6 isnt returning", that tells me they are keeping their options open to maybe go back someday
Cope harder
I highly highly doubt 6v6 ever returns (although I think OW does not last without it) and my guess is they won’t say “6v6 isn’t coming back” because that sort of hard and fast ignorance of the player base would push many people away from the game entirely
@@Dc_123_dc I mean, i already only play once or twice per week because i still at its core like the game
Them just admiting 6v6 doesnt return, wouldnt push me away more, im already barely playing
Idk, i cant find any other real idea to why they dont talk about it, they even act like its the end of the world and 6v6 is the most evil thing ever
@@heiko2255 I’m not saying people don’t play but to draw a line in the sand on a passionate topic for the community will naturally alienate at least some people
They sold the idea of ow2 on pve and 5v5. Pve was already dropped. Going back to 6v6 would be kind of admitting that the 2 on the title was mainly done to change the monetization model.
They can fix whatever they want. If they aren't adding a tank back for 6v6, it is all for naught.
Classic devs dodging 6v6 questions
Not happening, stop asking. You don't need to ask this to understand
@@razvanbadiloiu6037coping for 5v5
@@razvanbadiloiu6037 Will never stop asking.
imo it will happen eventually but only around 2026 with the 10 year anniversary of the game. they will probably call it vanillawatch, charge for it and rake in the money.
@@razvanbadiloiu6037This is what racists said in the cusp of the 1960s. Means that it’s getting through to people 😂
All of this and they could just bring 6 v 6 back
Along with the barriers issue (which would then turn into Rein, Sig, Sym, Brig barriers all over), making the DPS passive need to be removed or else supports will not be able to heal anyone since they need to pour health now into two tanks, have all tanks get their HP cut by a large portion for balancing, also fights generally lasting far longer due to more targets meaning damage output would need to be adjusted all over again
@@drbiohazmatdevs will do everything they can to rework ow1 heroes who played perfectly into a 5v5 hero
@@drbiohazmat So you're justifying their sunk cost. Yeah, so are they, that's why they haven't reverted to 6v6 and keep going deeper and deeper 10 seasons later into reworking and balancing heroes for 5v5.
Btw, the shield issue was easily fixable. Restrictions are nothing new, restrict 1 barrier tank per team and buff the tanks around that, or yk, reworks - which Orisa needed and got first thing OW2 anyway and she was the BIGGEST double shield offender because she could be aggressive while shielding. The reason it didn't get addressed is because the devs were already focused on OW2, updates slowed to a halt, and not enough effort was put into addressing the issues the game had (CC abundance and spam and double shield), not because it was unfixable or a huge balancing challenge. 5v5 has proven to be a much more major challenge for the team than 6v6 was already proving to be by the end of OW1 because of the nature of the change requiring an entire restructure and rebalancing of almost 40 heroes - maps that have been reworked included. It also made tanking more miserable and introduced nearly unfixable issues of counterswapping. Imo, these are worse and harder to address than any prob OW1 had and needed to be addressed regardless of the format.
that doesnt fix anything.
Screw 6v6. One's impact as a player is way smaller compared to 5v5, which feels awful if you solo queue. The clarity of what's happening in a team fight also suffers
Been wanting the old aim mechanic of flash for the longest. I don’t mind the hinder mechanic, but the magnetic aspect needs to go bad. Let it be a short range ability that activates upon explosion
I agree. They’ll need to play around with it. I think it’ll be to easy to cancel Queen ult
Mag nade feels straight up RNG sometimes. So many of the targets that I need to hit with it just straight up outrun it. I like the reliability and skillshot aspect of just aiming it
@THY from the other perspective, there are also many moments where you have heroes like Tracer or Doom zoom around and the grenade just seems to follow us beyond where it makes any sense to even after some changes to it. It's just a feel-bad ability all around.
@@OrphanHart I feel that. Nobody complained about landing flashbang, they just didn't like the stun. Also, giving it so much damage was weird but now that health pools are bigger I guess it's fine
its so much more frustrating and inconsistent to use than flashbang was, at least once per game as cass i get a nade that looks like it definitely should not have stuck but still did somehow
These characters seem to be better suited for a 6v6 mode maybe, I wonder if they’ve ever thought of that before, what if they added another tank
Lmfao crazy how that would fix EVERYTHING!!
@@Waywurd08 Can't wait for when they do that and you still have the same number or even more issues
What issues?@@okami1272
@@okami1272ok Aaron.
@@nahaight1373 You know I’m right
Why don’t they test a limited time hacked mode with 6V6 and/or disabling hero swap. That would be really cool to see and test more.
Disabling hero swap might be the worst idea I’ve ever heard. Would kill the game no questions. Maybe limited swap or a time delay, but no swap is madness.
No hero swap would be the worst experience ever. There are some team comps that would just get absolutely dumped on from others and some characters that get absolutely destroyed by specific characters. Imagine playing a comp that’s mostly close range and no hitscan only for the enemy to have pharah echo and mercy.
Sounds great! Enjoy getting counter picked at the start of the game and never getting to counter play! I'm sure you wouldn't be angry at aaaall when players start checking your profile before the games even start pick heroes to counter you every single game. Even better if you're a one trick!
@@lrainwater1608 Yeah imagine locking in ball against a locked in orissa, sombra, sym, ana, and brig.
Hero swapping is a core mechanic of overwatch, man…
That last question answer was so cooked 💀💀 they don’t even have a real answer. They just dance around and said “we want to continue to be stubborn and keep the game shit”
Imagine if Ball's adaptive shield formed a physical barrier around him (sort of like Winston's shield, but Ball's version moves around with him) instead of giving overhealth. The barrier's HP would still be determined by how many enemies are nearby, ofc.
Overwatch here telling us we don't REALLY know whats happening and don't really see any of the issues they see. Thats why allot of the time they don't respond to feedback and input on balancing...
Meanwhile we got Ex-Arrow head CEO Johan asking everyone "hey guys. What kind of stratagems would YOU like in the game?"
Feels like a night and day difference to me in terms of how to handle your players. Of course, i understand that one is a PvE and the other is a PvP but when was the last time we got asked from Blizzard what we wanted and they delivered without some sort of scummy extra thing on top?
I play both games but damn, this kind of stuff throws me back into appreciting arrow head.
Counter swap is not a problem, guys. So relieving to hear that. We are so back! Phew!
Literally isn't, the point of the game is to switch.
@@bui3415Being forced to switch off the tank you want to play is so much fun. Especially if you're the only tank on your team.
@@bui3415in a competitive match sure,but it’s NOT fun to play non meta heros and get shutdown or hard countered every match,god forbid I do well as doom and the enemy team switches to sombra,mcree Moria,Mauga or orisa
@bui3415 not every respawn, which is the tank experience.
@@bui3415Freedo is that you?
It's like telling people to play Poker with a deck of Uno cards.
Sure, you can write new rules and assign new roles for each card in order to get a somewhat working game of Poker going,
But at the end of the day you're still playing with Uno cards, designed specifically for Uno (and games within the Uno family).
Wouldn't it be easier to play a game the cards were designed for?
Wouldn't it be easier to play a game the way it was originally designed?
That is such a great analogy 👏
With regards to "getting the old Hanzo back", I can confidently say that the vast majority of Hanzo mains would prefer smaller arrows that can oneshot. Rewarding aim + prediction more, rather than running closer to the enemy team and spamming at the tank. He has 100% been forgotten.
Imo, they either need to revert him back, or rework him completely with a quiver of trick arrows.
Stop speaking for others
@@bui3415 I mean hes not wrong, 90% of hanzo players dont want him the way he is. What would u prefer a hanzo who duos with a mercy and one shots everyone on top of barely dying due to pocket with 2x the arrow size or a hanzo with one shot and harder to land arrow. Either way hanzo is shit and anyone who dies to him deserved it ngl same for dying to a widow.
one thing they dont ever address is that they eliminated a tank role and didnt give tanks anything to compensate for it. there is a psychological comfort to having someone else in your role, you can also complement each other's strengths and weaknesses and *not all of the pressure is on you* to perform. switching to 5v5 is something the players never asked for, and has been something the devs have constantly had to try and prove is superior. they could easily have data on this by providing a 6v6 mode with two spots in each role, but i guess they are just super catholic about their 5v5.
My main issue with Hanzo is his play style before was to take angles and one shot surprised heroes. Everyone was complaining about Hanzo spam but I feel like now without one shot and the decrease storm cooldown his play style rewards spam shots more than well placed targeted shots
Can't believe I'm saying this, but, thank god flashbang is coming back... And also just wanna point out that the devs specifically pointed out 5v5 as the reason why counterwatch is a thing and the question did not mentioned it.
XD
Most op skill in game is back hurray
@@Micha-ds5vy I mean it's not more op than suzu or kinetic grasp or lamp or pull or repair packs
@@Micha-ds5vyit'll slow and hinder not stun, just that it'll be short range and exploding rather than a missile that can somehow do 270degrees turn and still stick to someone, so that's definitely a win.
@@warpspiderfr idk
If they don't back to 6v6 this game sucks
@@Micha-ds5vy agreed 👍
I've said it before and I'll say it now. Reapers Shadowstep should have been more like Ventures Burrow, only with the added effect of being able to climb walls for a short period of time. It stays in line with his character abilities, and would look similar to his wraithform in Sombras debut video.
The problem with Bastion getting an ultimate like what was in Mirrorwatch is it just adds to the amount of things players have to shoot that aren't actually other players. It's like a pseudo-shield in that sense. Imagine having turret heroes, a turret healer, Bastion's bots running around, and a tank's shield all getting in your way during one game. It's fun in a PVE scenario, but can lead to lots of frustration in PVP.
No different than Ashe's ult. I say give Bastion his babies.
@@keeperplays Bastion ULT + Ashe Bob = free team fight because of how much damage, prescense, and pressure is applied by non-players lol
@@RemedieX Sure, if positioned well and followed up on. I would argue that any two ults positioned well and followed up on should win a team fight.
And the fact that the bots counted for objectives was terrible so many ot extensions from that ult
@@RemedieXi feel like a lot of 2 ult combos win entire teamfights
just bring back 6v6 it’s not hard blizzard
On next season update we update Cassidy name to McCree
That's a buff if I've even seen one.
The most IMPORTANT changes that NEED to be made.
- A 6V6 COMP MODE
- BRING BACK LOOKING FOR GROUP
they didnt even answer the hanzo question. they said we know how satisfying headshots were but nothing about his solo viability and his reliance on mercy. hes striaght up weaker rip game
i love how they just feel like rewarding people who put zero effort in the game . headshots take an insane amount of skill to hit the best way i think it would have been to give him the same nerf as widow to avoid random headshots from long range
The only role really benefitting from 5v5 is dps and even then that role still feels terrible. How many role passives and reworks do we need to undergo to bring up the question about 5v5 and 6v6?
When are we gonna stop this cycle and just bring back 6v6? None of these changes make the game feel better.
Just go back to 6v6😢
game is too dead for that. Sad
I will never play tank again if that happens.
Nah switch one dps to tank
cope harder
Just play open queue 95% of this game's problem especially the damn drama is just gone.
There was always counters in this game, but it wasn't this extreme with 5v5. Like stylosa said 6v6 kept it a bit balanced in a way. The devs talking like swapping heroes to counter others is why people play the game. With OW yes you can swap heroes in the game, but it was cool because you can try and play whichever hero you want, not forcefully trying to see which hero can counter the problematic one on the enemy team. Now that happens in game and sometimes I personally be ok with it if it's a good game. But the devs acting like that's the soul of OW while not addressing the issue in that last question is wild.
Blizzard “due to players inability to position correctly and constant complaining we remove hanzo’s one shot but still let server admin widow to 1 tap you across the map from a safe place with no contest.”
at this point they've reworked the whole roster to better fit 5v5
I feel like if lifeweaver could charge his healing while shooting that would fix his whole kit. That delay between swapping the 2 just feels so clunky and frustrating in those times where you were charging a heal but get dove and you're stuck in that animation unable to react. If it's overturned just have him do miniscule damage like a tracer bullet
The wreaking ball changes to grapple are actually amazing. The shield transfer is interesting but niche. I'd rather see ammo buffs like 100/100 instead of 80/80 or more damage and slower fire rate.
I don’t miss 6v6 at all, especially double shield or goats.
But at the very least, they should just make 6v6 it’s own playable game mode option
Regarding them going crazier with Cassidy's kit to fit cowboys more, i assume his flashbang may have started from a stick of dynamite in development since that feels more "Wild West" due to mining during the cowboy age. Though it could also be due to bandits holding people up like a robbery.
But for cowboys specifically, the only other things they could add that wouldn't be problematic (like a whip) would be a lasso to basically either be Hog's Hook or a weaker version that simply binds them in place.
They are slowly reverting everything to overwatch 1. Just go back to 6v6 and fix this shitshow
It was broken then too
@@bui3415 true, but not to this extent, and back then it was considerably easier to point out how to fix what's broken, though we didn't actually have an active dev team that would actually implement said fixes :/
the back flips to fix what 5v5 created are endless
This wat tf people talking about yall can rework everyone else basically but with reaper its only his shadow step? Like come tf on rework his whole kit in general to fit the 5v5
"What are they thinking??"
Been wondering for ages the same
Next Nerf: For Winton's ultimate he eats bananas
Sounds like a buff
Giga buff
the worst part is, that discord and dmg boost still make tanking miserable and everyone only talks about the trends...
its what happens when you fix 0 problems
Idk man but the whole avoiding the 6v6 debate and downplaying tank counterswapping issue tells me that there must be another reason they can't talk about.
I'm thinking something around the current engine and server structure making it nearly impossible for them to go back to 6v6.
Since now it's a F2P game, they would probably need to rework the engine and deploy a much more expensive server infrastructure. maybe the shareholders just say no to that.
the engine and server structure going from Overwatch 1 to Overwatch 2 felt like a min max overall downgrade if you ask me, making it cheaper in maintenance cost whilst marketing it as an upgrade with all the new visual effects and hero designs. Idk, maybe something along the line.
Marvel rivals it's a 6v6 3rd person perspective, for that alone it's a win, I will be able actually appreciate skins and have 2 tanks on the team.
They can't fix a lot of these problems with balance.
Ball isn't going to realistically be fixed, he can't be full blown independent dive tank because then his team is left alone, he can't be a team focused tank because that completely removes his fundamental playstyle and uniqueness.
You have the same thing with roadhog, his fundamental uniqueness and playstyle would have to be removed for him to be helpful to his team.
It's the theme we keep seeing is that blizzard are slowly turning the tanks into these jack of all trades heroes in order for them to be viable.
It seems like they would rather turn every tank into sigma than step back and realise that this game and it's heroes were fundamentally developed and designed in an environment where they had a teammate of the same role to assist and play off of.
I don't want to be one of these 6v6 guys but the game keeps getting less fun to play and the development team seem so disconnected from what the player base enjoy and want.
Not everyone wants 6v6, I can understand that simply because 6v6 was a more extreme version of overwatch, a bad meta in overwatch 1 had more of an oppressive feeling compared to a bad meta in overwatch 2, but the good metas in overwatch 1 just trump every good meta we've had in overwatch 2 in terms of straight fun. And that's coming from me as a dps player.
I have never seen a community come together like OW and 6v6 since Helldivers did that fuck up with the pan requirement, as days pass, I feel like more people are asking for 6v6
it's a vocal minority. people who are fine with how the game is aren't going to talk about it. only the people who have complaints are saying their opinions which makes it seem like most people share that opinion
@@mentarium9741 It's just.. More than before, that's what I'm referencing. I didn't really hear many talk about it, or even mention it, but now it seems like it's all people talk about.
@@StrafeY probably just since it's easier to focus on that one argument. since 6v6 was the original setup people would be split complaining on what they wanted changed. now with 5v5 people just cling to the hope of 6v6 since it's another option that we originally had. if we went back to 6v6 i'm sure there would be some saying going back to 5v5 would fix the new problems as well as just general mixed complaints as well
Can’t wait for marvel rivals, I’m sick of this game and can’t wait to jump ship.
If that game does release on consoles too overwatch is dead
I don't think you're ready for NetEase's greed tho.
@@okami1272 nothing can be worse than blizzard so I’m sure it’ll be ok
@@haiderz4510 As long as characters are free it will be manageable.
But that’s what I fear the most tbh, i feel like they’ll want you to pay for them.
If not, we’re in the clear.
@@okami1272 Honestly, the game is so much more fun and I had a blast playing it. There's more carry potential while at the same time you don't explode if you're good. Just needs polish (including performance) and some balancing is all.
The thing is, Blizz has been just as greedy if not greedier than netease has been, let's be honest. Releasing OW2 under the guise of PvE was a major scam because they kept lying to players face about it coming even when they knew it was cancelled lol. Then they cancelled PvE Missions, and cancelled gauntlet the other day. They just keep cancelling anything that wasn't established by OW1, making OW2 a complete disgrace of a "second game." Let's not forget Blizz DID lock heroes behind a BP and unlocking, didn't allow easily re-earnable OW coins for the next BP, and man I could go on all day but that list is long. It's only S9 & 10 where things are *starting* to take a turn like Bungie.
A new game like Rivals prob wouldn't have 10 seasons worth of failure to address problems stemming from greed because the playerbase isn't established whose invested tons of hours and effort and had their stuff transfer from a previous game - which Blizz has taken massive advantage of and been lucky has been the case - so Rivals either sinks or swims fast like Halo Infinite lol. ATM, MR has the potential to just be more fun and better than this mismanaged and re-released mess.
So here's an idea for Cassidy rework. I agree, get rid of this grenade. He's a cowboy. I take your whip, idea use it like RoadHog, Roadhog has super long chain, Cassidy will have a short reaching whip. Grabs the opponent in and he does his quick fire...BAM BAM BAM!!!!!
29:52 this is why I think they just need to do a 2 week test of 6v6. It would give them some good data. And if the data was in its favor, then it could be addressed and possibly added to the game in a permanent place along side the 5v5.
Still no 6v6? Not reinstalling
Don't care
@@bui3415bro you truly do, you’ve been commenting multiple times on even small comments 💀💀💀
Symmetra needs an actual Damage Ultimate...
Omg thank you!
the barrier wall should damage enemies when stepping through it
Or the wall can deflect dmg
Yeah totally, like a giant SUPER TURRET. Much more useful than saving your team from a dva bomb or other team wiping ult
@@JugsMcNastya big turret is literally just Bob
TBH, Flashbang was so much less frustrating than magnetic grenade simply because it had more counter play and didn't follow you halfway across the map. The Rein vs Cass mentals were insane.
Flash was one-shot to kill any 200hp hero xd
If you could head shot them it was but flash fan was only good in gold/plat and even then it wasn't a consistent kill unless you were breathing down the neck of your target
@Micha-ds5vy No, it wasn't. You can jump to throw off the headshot follow up. You could also deflect and bait it out without it chasing you across the map. The only problem is that it locks your camera.
@@absolute-xero7502 Yeah, the camera locking was my only real complaint against it. I had more fun dying to flash than magnetic.
@@reesyloko5741 Exactly! And if you're that close to a Cass when they had flash up, well, it's at least partially your own fault for not keeping track of CDs!
Overbuff being accurate makes sense if you consider that scientific research is usually done with sample sizes and extrapolated. Granted they usually do it multiple time with different people, but considering a game community is usually smaller than the population of large countries it makes sense that Overbuff doesn't need multiple groups of people like researchers do to get accurate results.
Current Sombra doesnt really requires team coordination as she used to in her old iteration.
for context symmetra isnt getting reworked , stylosa just wants clicks with clickbait titles
6v6 would only work if they split the tanks to shields and brawlers. Though Matrix lasts so long, Hana would probably be considered a shield tank.
saying overwatches problem was with double shield. In my opinion is a bad argument. When they could just limit each team to just one shield hero or make a new role just for shield tanks.
Double shield wasn't just two shield tanks. It was two tanks with placeable shields that would last until destroyed that also had an op sustain ability ie. Foritfy and Grasp. But that isn't even what held double shield together. It was brig bap with insane Aoe healing and immortality field which at the time lasted 7 - 8 seconds. If we do go back, it wouldn't work anyways. Orisa no longer has a shield and bap lamp doesn't last as long.
2 shields wasn't any problem for players with more than 7 iQ
And people forget double shields was the answer to hitscan being oppressively dominant for too long. They were and still are broken with little counter play except out hitscan. Double shields and goats were the only form of counter play.
@@Micha-ds5vy so glad all the top 500 players complaining about double shield had less than 7 iq
If we went back to 6v6 it would have also fixed mauga and the rock paper scissors problem as well
One idea I had during the mirror watch event was what if they made alternative kits for multiple heroes and then in competitive it would be a different set of kits each week, that way Metas are always in flux, I don't know how it would work with being able to play any kit in QP, maybe clear indications in tab.
4:28 note that Cassidy Does have a bionic arm, so the his flashbang or homing grenade isn't too far out in the woods, imo.
Yeah true
The fact it does 90 degree turns around corners is a problem. Aim and hit what you aim for, not some auto lock on low skill ability
If you want to learn how to counter, grind out the Shapeshifter title.
"1v1 matchups are not the highest priority when assessing the heroes" - said when speaking about the tank counter swapping problem.
This is 100 percent the right way to look at hero balance, in Overwatch 1. This game is not Overwatch 1.
There is 1 tank on each team, it is a 1v1, the tanks HAVE to be balanced on a 1v1 basis because that is how the game is now.
It wouldn't be that much of an issue, but the tanks are 3 times the power level of the dps or the supports. A lot of the tanks can take 2 and 3v1s against dps and supports and win with relative consistency.
You cannot have the most powerful heroes in the game not be balanced on a 1v1 basis when they are quite literally in a 1v1. That's genuinely crazy that a developer has said that.
You have 2 options in my mind to fix the tank counter swap problem, You can either:
Rework every tank hero so they are all jack of all trades... Kind of like they are trying to do to be honest. The huge downside to this however is it monumentally removes the fun and uniqueness from near enough every tank in the game, which would be a huge shame when you have heroes like Reinhardt that are pretty much perfectly designed video game heroes.
Have an extra tank player, spreading the counter swapping burden across 2 players and allowing skill expression between the two players to more effectively outplay soft counters. The negative to this marketing and general slander from the gaming community for failing to make 5v5 work, but at this point it seems like the overwatch team kind of enjoy it. It's kind of like when you're trying to chat up a girl that's clearly not interested in you, but all your friends are watching so you don't want to give up, the longer you stand there trying to talk to her, the worse it looks but you don't want to swallow your pride and accept defeat.
Honestly though if anyone has any other ideas of how they could fix the tank counter swap issue I'd love to hear it, I didn't believe in going back to 6v6 until someone explained it to me.
Calling a slight tweak a rework is just rediculous… what are the devs smoking? Holy fuck….
I stopped playing because of 5v5, if it goes back to 6v6 then I will come back
Giving the petal damage reduction AND the option to raise and by how much with the interact button would be amazing. IE you can keep it on the ground and get damage reduction or hit interact like with the teleporter and raise it to whatever level you desire
For Bastions ult they should have a CGI trailer release where it shows Bastion, Brig, and Torb, doing stuff in the workshop and we see either Bastion working on one or it’s in the background
Since he’s not with the uprising omnics anymore he probably wouldn’t have slicers right? So create new little robots that he crafted and they go around doing damage and/or doing stuff like, idk tracking? Like they’re going around scanning enemies and it either gives a Hanzo arrow effect, or maybe they slow enemies helping him land his grenades
Or maybe they damage enemies and make it where your ion grenade tracks the enemy like a Cass’ grenade used to, then probably nerf the grenade a bit + give him more to use (like junk rats mines) then probably also nerf his primary fire capacity or something
The argument that 6v6 is a bad idea because of double shields etc could be solved so easily nowadays! Something like if someone selects sigma the other tank cannot select ramatra Reinhardt or Winston and vice versa! You can have two off tanks play if you want but never too main tanks. So you could have one person that selects the main tank like when you're picking the heroes that guy clicks Reinhardt or clicks ramatra clicks Winston they are set is main tank the other person can go Wrecking ball, Doomfist, Orissa, junker Queen diva and the problem is solved.
I play open que over roll que all the time because it's more fun to play with another tank than it is to play alone getting your ass ripped in half solo tanking and getting blamed for everything. When you lose every single placement match on tank you don't want to play tank anymore , But when you play open cue and you can play as a tank and you have your friends with you It's fun and 90% of the time you never have games where people going three tanks because it's inefficient. If the enemy team has more DPS then they have tanks especially with the new passive and if the enemy is only have two supports they lose especially with how many counterable DPS there are for each tank. It's just a stupid argument that needs to go away especially since Ramattras shield is temporary only ones that are semi-permanent are Reinhardt sigma . Just make it so your team can't have a Reinhardt and sigma on the same team. You know there's so many ways to go around it and just have the lower health tanks like they have in open queue and it's easy! it's solved!
I want you open queue avoiders to give open to a try but with a group of people and try it with two tanks one DPS and two supports It's fun as fuck.
i wonder if theyll make reaper's shadow step more similar to venture where it's a shadow that can move along floors/walls that would be neat
The devs really just gonna keep letting Moira dive the back line with auto lock abilities and a get out of jail free card?!
I hate the fact that she is just a point and hold and free damage. Takes no skilll at all and screws over very difficult to play character like genji. I hate this dev team
Just make 6v6 a seperate mode with its own comp like wtf man
I just wanna play with an extra friend i got alot of friends i gotta play with
They should divide the Tank category into two: Tank and Brawler, and you can only have 1 of each, then you can bring 2 Tanks back
i think they should bring the 6v6 as an optional mode in both qp and competitive, since there's a lot of people that thinks 6v6 is better but there's also people that thinks 5v5 is better, i wouldn't mind playing 6v6, but i hate when games don't give you options...
Hanzo should lead into his backshot from storm arrows. Give it a bounce indicator to make it easier to hit. He can still be a mid range assassin that way, just with more interaction from the enemy
It's almost like taking characters made for duo-tank synergy and put them into a single tank game would make them......almost no fun at all or completely impossible to balance?
Crazy how that works!
I hope that someone makes a OW1 clone. Loved that game above all others and would play it as long as no massive corpa made it.
im curious with the counterswap situation if the tanks needs to swap, why loose so much of their ult charge? what if they could keep a higher procentage of ult charge, that way it could open up a higher possibility to still use "worse" tanks against better just because of the the ult posibility. but maybe thats a poor idea.
what does it for me is that they dont have a PTR anymore so these changes go in and we have to deal with them until they are either hotfixed out or nerfed
ie sigma LOS buff, roadhog rework, etc.
Tanks should get more health but do less damage a tank like hog oneshotting is rly annoying if you as hanzo can't even oneshot anymore. Next point give hanzo oneshot back, make venture more skill based and than buff her i think i didn't keep up on that i just heread she is something in the middle or whatever. In my opion reaper is made to be a tankk shredder but he should hvae some major weaknesses to get punished by the other dps if he plays bad. healers are actually fine i think maybe mercy needs some love. Actually i think season 3 or what it was was the most fun i think their should try to go in that direction again
What about the comp points? Will we be able to use our white ones before the next season starts ?
came back to you thru HD2, hearing these updates on overwatch is just mindspinning and makes me so glad I don't play anymore.
Instead of reworking each hero one at a time, why don't they just rework the format back to 6v6?
I main Lifeweaver and personally that "rework" sounds more like a buff. Although the platform change where teammates get a buff would give him something other than healing and DPS, it doesn't seem like there will be any actual changes to his play style. To me these changes sound like smoke and mirrors to give us expectations that might not even come to fruition
FORCE THE DEVS TO PLAY THEIR OWN GAME, THEN THEY WILL LISTEN
Devs: ""unhealthy" and "unpopular" designs aren't necessarily the same thing"
Me: _side eyes Ana, a very popular hero with the 2 most unhealthy abilities in the entire game_
No, seriously. The old devs were so allergic to touching Ana's biotic grenade (aka the first non-ult burst heal in the game) that they COMPLETELY REWORKED Overwatch's combat pacing/TTK to accommodate it.
This included GUTTING the tank role's autonomy _(tanks aren't allowed to be durable on their own anymore, they're now extremely dependent on burst-healing for survival),_ kickstarting a vicious cycle of damage/healing creep, & setting a precedent for future support design where having "crazy amounts of burst-healing and/or immortality on a cooldown" is REQUIRED to keep up with the powercreep that bionade started.
And to add insult to injury: All of this has made healing in general far less satisfying & fun to use. Triage healing as a playstyle was incredibly popular when OW1 first came out, but that was only possible because combat lasted longer with a slower overall ttk (at least when ults weren't being used). Speeding up Overwatch's ttk to contest the crazy levels of burst healing has made _non-burst healing_ (and triage as a skillset in general) is far less impactful - fights are over too quickly for sustain/trickle heals to make much of a difference, regardless of how efficiently you managed them.
They buffed her Biotic too
Stop calling, adding a new ability with some tweaks, a 'rework!' A rework is overhauling the ENTIRE identity of the character where they play DRASTICALLY different than the previous version! These are QoL changes, though its arguable that they aren't necessarily quality changes as we can see with wrecking ball where it changed nothing about him.
As a Hanzo player, the one major annoyance I have with his current position is simply due to the fact that he cannot 1 shot heroes that should be 1 shottable regardless. I call them "Infiltrator Heroes"
These heroes are Tracer and Sombra. Sombra has invis, Tracer can blink a long distance in a fraction of a second. Of these 2 heroes, only 1 of them can be 1 shot by current Hanzo - Tracer. While I understand the hatred for 1 shot Hanzo, it does concern me that we're currently in a state of the game where so many heroes can comfortably waltz into the backline and challenge a Hanzo while knowing they can take a minimum of 2 shots from Hanzo. While most of these can be dealt with since they have to use their abilities to get to Hanzo in the first place, Sombra has invisibility to get in and a teleporter to get out. This wasn't an issue when she used to be 1 shot by Hanzo, but now she can confidently go into a Hanzo 1v1 knowing she can take a maximum of 3 shots from Hanzo before dying, worst case scenario 2 shots if the first one is a headshot. So now you have a sudden inflow of Sombras who brainlessly dive into Hanzo players knowing that it is literally impossible for the Hanzo to punish them unless there is a Mercy pocketing him.
Hanzo buff dps or Sombra nerf health, I'll be happy.
Very poor answer to dodge the unfixable flaw of 5v5. "We don't care" would have been a better, shorter and more honest answer. Also completely dodged the question on passive heroes like lifeweaver and mercy's negative affect on the game. At least they will look at hog. When can we have 2 tanks back tho
5v5 made it so there is one less hero to interact with on each side and the tank is a waste of time to shoot at in many situations. You also never ever win vs a tank that can just appear in front of you due to the (too) many mobility skills tanks have. That's why many people think 6v6 was better. Also, tanks do more dmg than DPS... if that's not an easy indicator for a design flaw, then I don't know what is.
Why so much hate here? 6v6 days were cool, but 5v5 is also cool.
Yes, 5v5 does create problems that 6v6 didnt have but 6v6 had its own glaring flaws.
We dont need to constantly fantasize about the devs being "too prideful to admit they are wrong with 5v5"
Just work on the here and now, lets make this game better as it stands now.
My issue is the maps and game modes junk city needs a major rework when there’s only one spawn and they other team can just sit in front of your spawn and stop u from getting to point
People: *Play a hero they like*
Devs: "Seems a lot of people play that hero, looks like we need to nerf it"
People: *Play it anyways*
Devs: "Seems we need more nerfs"
The hero in question: 💀💀💀
So many sudden "updates" coming when usually its slower than maple syrup. Sounds like blizz is freaking out about marvel rivals
I don't think I've heard of any team of developers that deserve to be fired more than these ones.
Yet so many good developers are out here losing their jobs because they released successful things.
You know that hanzo voice line he talks about being better with a sword? I think they should come out with a cinematic cut scene where he forgives himself for “killing” his brother and picks up the sword. And have his rework be a new Melee character with sword play.