The Spinning Drone Paradox - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2024
- Generally speaking, if your drone starts spinning incredibly fast, you have a serious problem. But here’s the twist: (ba-dum-tsss) with the right design, spinning actually provides a substantial increase in hovering efficiency due to some clever exploitation of the laws of physics.
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PART 2: • Is THIS the Most Versa...
There are plenty of spinning VTOL drones that are inspired by the maple seed. This type of drone has always caught my interest because the complexity of controlling it as it spins always seemed to outweigh whatever benefits it provided, if any. So, I decided it was time to figure out what makes these unique spinning VTOL drones so attractive by building my own that is able to spin with wings, or just fly around like a regular tricopter. As long as you don’t mind your payload spinning, and needing to implement a custom control method (coming soon…?) to intuitively direct it around, a spinning rotor drone is substantially more efficient at hovering than a regular multirotor drone. In the next video, we’ll take it to the next level by exploring fast forward flight with this unique drone design. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss it!
00:00 Intro
01:19 Build
02:41 Altitude Hold
03:52 No Wings Power Data
05:49 Wings On Power Data
06:40 Why It's So Darn Efficient
08:00 Conclusions
#VTOL #Drone #Tricopter - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Such a cool idea! Now to make a super fast one axis brushless gimbal so it can be used for FPV
"Simply" build an optical derotator ;).
It uses a rotating assembly of mirrors (or a dove prism) to get a stationary image of a rotating object (or the opposite in your case: stationary surroundings, rotating camera).
Or just fix the video in post with flow state.
A rotation compensator like this? th-cam.com/video/fkZ4uqd-2rw/w-d-xo.html - that way you can also include a swash plate for cyclic pitch :) Can't wait to see what you have planned for directional control!/cb
@@christofbeaupoil8035 The concept in your linked video seems very interesting, but I meant an optical image derotator. US patent US3625612A Fig. 7 shows the version with mirrors I was referring to. These are used for vibration measurement of rotating objects (e.g. Polytec PSV-A-440) and in telescopes to eliminate motion blur due to the earths rotation (e.g. "Barboza, 2018, Design and Prototyping of the Image Derotator for the ELT Infrared Instrument MICADO").
@@LS-xb2fh Also a cool idea! But I was trying to answer to @rctestflight's comment about a brushless gimbal. That might be useful for everything that can not be stabilized optically :) /cb
The last part when it glides forward like an airplane was so cool. This thing has so many flying options.
It reminds me Darth Vader's space ship. Imagine if he could somehow get independent servos for each wing/blade so the bottom ones would act like conventional wings and the top one like a rudder.
@@davialves5970 Servos can do this pretty easily. It's actually harder to gear the booms together like he did, but it arguably saves weight and complexity.
@@davialves5970 You actually don't need to do that. Simply tilting the entire vehicle accomplishes the same thing.
yes, totally reminded me of the Lambda-class T-4a shuttle from starwars
This concept was actually explored over a decade ago with the Air Hogs toy “Switchblade”. It had basically a much simpler version of this concept but with two rotors during launch. You locked the toy into “Launch Mode” by twisting the two rotors away from each other, and let it spin itself to altitude, and when you were ready, hitting a button to unlock it from launch mode to fully fly like any plane-esque twin-rotor RC. Pretty neat to see this concept again in my 20s after seeing it before i even hit 10 :D
Good times with the switchblade
@@NicholasRehm do you think this is what disc shaped ufos are doing? it makes sense for such an efficient filing object, and would get better with better technology
@@bigmackmusic174 that's EXACTLY where my head went.
@@bigmackmusic174 he’s not going to answer that because it’s an incredibly stupid question lol. Those round spacecraft are just SCIFi. They use a completely different probably warp style propulsion so it’s irrelevant
@@bigmackmusic174 probably not cause this system wouldnt work in space
I couldn't fail to notice another way to improve the efficiency of your setup: Just let it spin in the other direction!
As any winged aircraft, your drone suffers from wing tip vortices due to induced drag.
These vortices reduce the wing's ability to generate lift, so that it requires a higher angle of attack for the same lift, which tilts the total aerodynamic force rearwards and increases the drag component of that force.
In the flights you showed us, the propellers were turning in the same direction as the vortices, hence enhancing them. Now if the drone spins in the other direction the wing tip vortices switch direction too. Since the spinning direction of the prop would stay the same, those vortices would be reduced by the prop spin.
The effect would be even more pronounced if the props would be at the very tip of the wing.
See:
Chance Vought V-173
Chance Vought XF5U
Bell-Boeing V-22
On all these planes the outside tip of the props were moving downward.
In addition, it could be torodal design
where would u suggest I learn more about what u've said?
@@davidthomson8010 Wherever you are right now is fine man, just gotta start! Good luck!
@@onepointufo toroidal*
@@1u8taheb6 useless answers 101
This is a remarkable breakthrough - a 30 watt hover. As far as I know, the longest continuous flight for a multirotor is 175 minutes (happy to be corrected if anyone knows differently) - you could knock up a big Li-ion pack and claim the un-official world record (though you'd probably need 6S and more efficient, larger props)
Tempted to go a little bigger and try this out!
How is "multirotor" defined in that world record?
I mean a helicopter also has 2 props and it drives them directly instead of moving the bigger one by smaller ones... I would guess that's more efficient?
@@jackwiedemann It wastes energy by not rotating whatever is rotating the helicopter. And when using counterrotation you artificialy limit the blade length. So my gues is that theoreticaly a flying prop is more efficient.
Wowzers.....
@@someonespotatohmm9513 hm interesting question. I mean only having to drive 2 motors instead of 4 has efficiency improvements too, but there's also the added benefit of the increase in efficiency with incoming air in these props. Hovering one big single rotor like a helicopter will also not result in incoming air...
So it's actually a more complex problem, but i think you're right.
A little correction at 00:35
60 degree tilt from vertical results in requiring twice the thrust to match the initial vertical thrust component, not 45 degrees. You’d think I’d know my vectors by now….
Yeah, I frowned a bit, but your concept is so amazing I'm still happy I clicked! Great experiment!
@@Sekir80 thanks for being patient with my annoying error lol. A good lesson in not rushing through the editing process or else things like that go overlooked
@@NicholasRehm Don't worry about it! I await your next chapter of experiments. :)
That's news to me and I'm sure it is to others also. 45 degrees seems like it would be the right answer. Care to quickly explain why 60 degrees produces half thrust for the rest of us?
@@Chris-oj7ro if you recall F=MA, F being Force, M=mass, A= Acceleration. Apply it to F_net = MG•sin30°, where G is "Acceleration due to Gravity." If you recall your unit circle, sin30° is equal to 1/2. So essentially (weight on earth)/2.
Its insane how you managed to apply such a simple concept to such a popular platform and create something which i hadnt seen before. Very well made design and nicely explained too
Toroidal shaped propellers create less eddy at the wing tip where the air foil stops, maybe this can be used on the macro and micro propellers to harness even more energy, stellar video! You’re onto something big and we don’t even realize it yet
You, sir - and I mean this sincerely - have finally discovered a practical use for the tip jet... rotor... whatever. Super impressive.
Thanks! We’ll see where we can take this idea…
@@NicholasRehm bigger! for more efficiency :P
@@NicholasRehm How does the power requirement compare to a single motor running the larger propeller? In other words, could this concept be used to improve efficiency of propeller aircraft assuming the fuel routing issues could be resolved?
Edit: alternatively, could this be used to improve the viability of electric prop planes?
@@NicholasRehm I feel like this flies very similar to what a classic UFO would, a few more propellers/wings shaped to curve downward near the tip and a stabilized ring in the center for a camera that doesn't spin and you have it. course, I have no idea what shaping the wings differently would do
@@diveforknowledge They tried it in WW2 and the cold war. It didn't really work because back then they didn't have fly by wires and LiDAR. So landing the plane was very risky. It's like parking a car without rear mirror. It's the main reason this kind of air plane design was discarded. To get it into the air is not the problem, to get it back to the ground is. Maybe modern computer assisted flight control can help fix it.
I am astounded at how you can share your findings and teach new concepts in a fun way at the same time. Great job!
Really appreciate your comment
@@NicholasRehm The concept actually comes from a children's toy. It's a stick that you attach to a small propeller, and you rub it in your palms which causes it to spin, lift up and hover like a helicopter.
Putting that on a drone makes it more efficient, just like you touched on, the whole unit becomes one large, slow spinning, "passive" propeller.
Also, having tri-drone is a more efficient design than a quad-drone. You basically can have three larger active-propellers, rather than four smaller ones. So these two attributes fit together nicely.
The reason why people opt for the quad-drone setup is because it is actually more simple, cheaper, and easier to navigate (you can assign each side as front/back/left/right). Each of the four arms can be rigid and controlled by a simple on/off switch. A tri-drone needs more tweaks, and have each arm needing to pivot and spin at different rates.
As for energy source, fossil fuel is still better method at the medium to heavy weight. Electrical is only viable at the super lightweight scale. Not sure about nuclear, we don't have the technology for it (small nuclear engine). The best compromise is using solar energy for splitting water, generating hydrogen, using solar energy to compress it, then having hydrogen engine for helicopter flight. It can scale to heavyweight sizes, and is based on a renewable source.
It would be cool if you put a swashplate in the centerbody and used cyclic for directional control. No need for anti-torque because the rotors self propelled. If the battery was in the non rotating centerbody you'd need some kind of power coupling to deliver power to the tip propellers which might be hard to do, brushes or something I guess. Reminds me a bit of one of the human powered helicopter attempts to win the sikorsky prize (before they all went quadcopter, the cal poly one from 89 i think)
That could be done with slip rings. Like on a car Steering wheel n such.
Then you'd kinda have a helicopter with tip propellers on the big propeller. I guess you'd need a way to brake the rotor so that it can still function as a tricopter in order to be able to choose between high efficiency and high stability, which I'm guessing is the whole purpose of this.
@@southtexasspecials175most cars use clock springs because they only need 3 turns max
Not sure if I'm getting old, but seeing such beautiful data and nicely labeled plots made me happy... Subbed!
You know, like a helicopter!
Fun fact, there have been helicopters that had their main rotor propulsion take place at the end of the rotors by little rockets. These tip jet Copters came in several different formulations. Including ram jets!
You’re essentially recreating this basic idea. Thrust at the end of the rotors! Another benefit of propulsion at the tip of the rotors is a lack of torque applied to the center mass. This makes it not necessary to have tail rotors on these types of craft!
Came here looking for somebody mentioning a helicopter and here you are. Somebody else on here made a comment about separate servos for rotor tilt and I think they stumbled upon the cyclic.
There used to be advertisements in the back of magazines like Popular Science that sold plans for one-man helicopters that used pulse jets on the rotor tips. Apparently they did work but the pulse jets were so loud that they were no fun. Pulse jets are simple and cheap and precession is not a problem, but damn they are stupid loud.
@@florabee9283 pulse jets are a great way to convert potential chemical energy into noise.
Attach razor blades to the trailing edge of those “wings” and your kid will volunteer to cut the lawn.
There is a TH-camr that already made that
Very interesting. I love how 3d printing has enabled R&D and exploring engineering and ideas on a mass level.
anyone in any part of the world can create cool stuff now ( which could make a huge change in the field they are working on
Nicholas,
You have a real gift for making incredibly complex subjects understandable.
Thank you so much for making all of this - especially your flight control system - open source.
A fantastic good video! No intro music, no music at all! This is how I love informative videos!
When I saw the winged version, i never saw it as a paradox as the wings itself is already pushing down static air providing lift.
yeah, it didn't really seem like a paradox to me either - seemed quite obvious that drone + propellers angled to make it spin + wings angled in the direction it's spinning = more lift for less energy. if i had to guess, the title/claim might be an example of "experts on a topic either drastically over- or under-estimate average layperson's knowledge", or perhaps it's based on reactions from people with less intuitive understanding of how wings work, if that makes sense.
...or, maybe the "paradox" is more to do with how much more efficient it is than a wingless drone? in that case i don't know nearly enough to comment on that lol
no judgement towards OP one way or another, ofc, just theorizing a bit
Yes and no. It is not pushing down. Its using the same principle as airplane wings. Air moving faster over one side of the wing causes lift. Its basically a hover jet with helicopter props.
@@mozarteanchaos I think the "paradox" in the title is "less power spent going up => drone goes farther up", which is just a paradox for the tiny propellers themselves and not the entire drone.
@@TheLK641 hm, that seems pretty plausible!
Now I'm envisioning a future where we fly around sitting in the middle of a giant prop.
Isn't that a helicopter?
@@robinbennett5994 yup, helicopter with three tails and wing for each tail
A triebflugel that goes from being a crazy 80 year old concept to something that actually works.
Yes and not only Triebflugel but Flugelrad as well...
And Flugkriesel...
I used to play around with this in Kerbal Space Program. Maybe I should go back and explore the idea now that I know there are better controls I can use.
You explain it well in your video. Well done!
Your comparison to a
Great design and explanation. Try removing 1/2 or even 2/3 of the wing on the inside. The inside part of your rotor-wings are more weight than lift.
Why?
@@kekogonzalez677 the inside has lower wind speed so it generates less lift
@@mtbsieppo exactly
@@mtbsieppo
That depends on the design of the airfoil, camber, taper, twist, and angle of attack.
Elliptical lift across a propellor or rotor is possible, as well as other lift profiles.
@@mtbsieppo Still, removing that part of the wing introduces a vortex.
I’d consider the copter to be a quad. Technically when you’re “spin hovering” you turn the arms into a giant prop. If that makes sense.
haha true
Tri plus one maybe?
Your work is fantastic. We appreciate your contributions. Thank you.
Physics, engineering, CS, cinematography, editing, chill voice this guy got talent
The prop taking off without the rest of the drone made my day. 😂
Yep, was pretty funny to watch haha.
I love it! Now make a gigantic quadcopter with four of these and see how much it can lift. Seems like you already have good feedback about the yaw rate, which could be fed into another PID for the quad control. An added benefit is you could adjust the 'cyclic' or average pitch of all corners so that the rev/s aims for the minimum of the blue line in the graph at 5:52. It would be hard to program, expensive, and as agile as a school bus. Yay!
This is so insane that I just might do it LOL
Oh i just saw watched this video and thought i thought of this first, i hope you do this though
@@NicholasRehm you're using a 4-in-1 ESC anyway, so, why not 4th motor?
@@NicholasRehm well it won't be more efficient than strapping 4 bigger motors directly to the bigger props, will it?
@@NicholasRehm Is there enough space for 4 pinion gears? Suppose ya could just go bigger?
Very cool idea. Simple and effective
Congrats!
Wow, very cool idea. Not the first time I've seen a rotor powered this way. but to combine it into a drone concept is outstanding.
Thanks!
Really neat!
In forward flight, if the arms were all on separate servos, then two could rotate in opposite directions inward to make a plane with reverse sweep, using the third motor to keep the tail up.
That’s a really cool idea. V2 might need to have separate servos per wing now
@@NicholasRehm what about using the current design (but non spinning) in fast forward flight, with pitch angle near 90 degrees? This might be what you meant at the end of the video, but maybe you were talking about spinning forward flight.
It won't be passively stable, but it would be interesting to see if you are able to hold altitude with similar efficiency. Great project.
@@JMMC1005 It could be. He flew like an inverted "Y", but he could have flew it as an upright "Y". This way the two arms up would provide lift, and the third arm down would be there just for propulsion. It wouldn't even need to move the arms independently: just put them at 90 degrees, and use engine speed to control the drone.
The same thought hit me at 8:20, it looked like a plane..
@@NicholasRehm
Probably two of this drones could be connected on one central axis, and up one turns in one side, second one - in the other, so axis is somewhat stable and load can be attached to it. Would be kinda similar to helicopter with coaxial rotors.
Impressive!
I wonder how the "big propeller mode" would perform in horizontal flights
The angular momentum would give it excellent stability in extreme weather conditions.
Like a spinning bullet shot out of a rifle.
Imagining horizontal big prop mode.... Wow. That just kept my imagination busy for the past hour.
I could get interested in investing in same design and larger assembly.
@@BVLVI you whould have no lift though as all your trust is either cancelling each other out of giving you forward momentum
Hi Phillippe, 'Big Propeller Mode' will have most of the characteristics of a Helicopter, so it will need to balance the advancing/retreating blades lift, etc.
Aaand for manoevering, Cyclic pitch control, perhaps?
7:53 is the most creative way I’ve been asked to subscribe. I’ll allow it.
Very cool and makes complete sense. You get exponentially more lift per square inch of propeller/wing. I also like the comment that suggested having the smaller propellers on the back of the wings pushing them forward rather than pulling them forward as that would reduce drag and make it even more efficient. I imagine something like this might be utilized for package delivery where in the main drone is above the package holding section attached via cable and the main drone does this spinning drone effect to minimize power usage while the package holding section is lowered to the ground. It's also good for surveillance drones that just need to hover in place for extended periods of time.
Wow, this is incredible! I am imagining a future version of this with a payload section underneath that is counter-rotated to be kept stationary. This could be super applicable to long-distance/payload flights with sensitive cargo or cameras. Can't wait for the next video!
can you explain your first statement little bit more ??
@@battlewing221 Well basically, what they meant is that they are inagining a version of the drone in the video where it is used as a carrier drone, Now you might be wondering, how can a drone that spins be something that carries objects carefully and safely? What this dude just said in his first statement is that hes imagining a version that fixes such an issue, and how it iss fixed is by attaching a contraption that will contain the objects that are to be transported to places, and that contraption is designed in a way that rotating it doesnt really rotate the inside, such mechanism and technology already exist, you might as well think of it as a box and larger version of the bearings that was inserted in the middle section of the drone that allows rotation on the inside that was shown in the video in the "showing the process of building the drone" part.
@@BootyRealDreamMurMurs yes thanks,
Maybe not "counter-rotated" as much as just stationary. How about the payload section on a bearing with an internal gyroscope?
@@mikestaihr5183 yea a bearing design would be better i think
Extremely impressive! This makes me think of a German concept aircraft designed at the end of WW2. It would use 3 jet engines in the same configuration as yours to take off and land vertically. It never reached the prototyping phase though. Here is a link for more info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel
I want to make one of these eventually!
@@NicholasRehm contra rotating
That thing was the epitome of WW2 German Grandiose.
That concept was also used in the famous Fairey Rotodyne
That was the TriebFlugel (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel). The US had the Pogo which is not the same idea but also was a VTOL. Landing was always a problem since the pilot couldn't see what he was doing as he set down.
First time watching your vid and i am glad i clicked. Funny and fascinating. Exactly what I wish for when i want to watch an engineering build especially about aeronautics
Great idea and a correct observation that large, low speed props are more efficient than high speed small props. You can see the practical application of this if you look at human power air vehicles. They have huge props that turn very slowly. Planes that need efficiency, like solar powered planes use this trick too.
Very innovative approach and fun to watch your progress. Keep up the good work.
Nice! In forward flight you get some lift from the two lower blade/wings! (I propose blades + wings = blings😄) Maybe you can use the top one as rudder. In fwd flight, looks like a Imperial Lambda-class shuttle!
Additionally let's all take a hard pause to admire the pure beauty of this 8:16 ! THIS IS DOPE!!!!!
The whole video I was wondering if he would do this!
THIS. IS. IMPRESSIVE !!! Instant subscribed, wow.
You should really make 3 more of these and use them and props for a single large drone. Might actually catch on with future drone designs!
And so on and so on... a Russian doll drone!
Recursive! And even better: why not have smaller drones that assemble themselves into the recursive structure and then repeat? Keep recursion into bigger and bigger recursively spinning system. It'll be like a fractal drone.
Wow, suddenly this "simple" design looks like a prime VTOL configuration!
You mean a tip powered helicopter like the Fairey Rotodyne? From 1957
@@chrispollard6568 that's a mad helli / plane for its time
Great idea, ive been dreaming about stuff like this for some time.
Also the footage of the prop flying off cracked me up
The worst part is that I didn’t have a wrench or pliers in my car to re-tighten it. So I had to use my jumper cable clamps lol
@@NicholasRehm time to get a good little multitool 😜
@@NicholasRehm can't be worse than when I had to use a pair of sticks pinched together lol
Hello, thanks so much for doing this, very interesting to see. I could never actually make this, but I had almost the exact same idea, where a single central motor would power shafts that would run props that push wings like you have done here, but the wings would not tilt, just the props. What would be cool is another set of props + wings on top, facing opposite and counter-rotating where lift is generated by both sets. This could allow a cylinder in the center that separated the two to carry a non-spinning payload like a camera. The center hub would allow the wings to spin on bearings while remaining mostly stationary. Very nice project! really cool. .
I’ve seen footage of devices that operate this way used to deliver shaped explosives, couldn’t understand why they were spinning, thanks for explaining what’s happening when they spin!
Holy crap dude... I can't remember the last time I saw something this brilliant! Is this an existing concept I just happened to never hear of, or did you come up with it on your own? Either way, you u got a sub from me! I can't wait to see more!
There are other spinning drones that leverage the efficiency boost of the tip-driven blade configuration, but none that can do regular multirotor hover, spinning hover, and forward flight all in one to my knowledge
Shibeeb, there was at least one toy "drone" that used this concept in the mid to late 2000s. Those toys could spin hover (no normal hover) and fly forward/back and side to side as seen from the pilot. It used an infrared controller and pulsed the motors at the right times for directional flight.
@pyropulse why don't you use your gigabrain to go create something impressive or help others instead of insulting strangers on the Internet? I doubt this is less efficient than a traditional helicopter for a number of reasons: 1. There's no fuselage obstructing air flow. Instead, the prop wash is moving air across an airfoil which aids lift. 2. There's no tail rotor needed to overcome the rotation from a traditional helicopter design. Newton's third law dude... "Equal and opposite reaction". If you have to impart force into a fuselage to keep it from rotating, how efficient is that really?
@pyropulse old brain🥴
@pyropulse I too am amazed at the amazement over this design. Over a hundred and ten years ago, a man thought of and was doing research on “tip jet” design that used compressed air to spin the blades of a “helicopter.” It’s not exactly the same as this, but it’s the same general principle that has been tried and tested throughout the last one hundred years. I love this video of a homemade design that works amazing, with actual data to show its efficiency, but come on people, this isn’t a new invention.
Idiocracy wasn’t a comedy.
This is a profoundly simple and wonderful design. I want to see more
So obvious. I'm astonished at the fact that I've never thought of this, bloody well done!!
PS: my findings in sustaining longer flight times without foils were as follows.
1- larger props
2- more torque (less kvs)
3- higher voltage
Those in combination have taken some designs from a 25min to a 90min flight!
Larger props wouldn't work well with your design however they do as a rule of thumb and should also still work great with a maximum rotation of 45deg.
Wonder what would happen if you incorporated this current design with a 10' - 3 blade prop powered by a 100kv motor in the center!? 🤪
I was blown away by those horizontal flights at the end!
More coming soon!!
The idea of substantially less energy made me immediatly think of the Focke-Wulf Triebflügel plan. Vertical take off jet thing, but instead of normal jet thrust, it had 3 engines placed at the ends of wings that spin around the center of the fuselage. Nothing beyond the initial concept was made, but it did make its way into the Captain America movie
yep, literally the same idea, just 80 years ago....
this sort of reminds me of the so called "engineless helicopter" called the XH-26 jeep jet, that was basically a one person cockpit with a tiny tail boom, single bladed tail rotor, and a dual-bladed main rotor that had a pulse jet engine attached to each end, such a weird yet interesting piece of technology, and this one just brings it to whole new levels of both
That helicopter is still on my mind since seeing it on the internet for years.
Tip jet helicopters are always interesting. The only issues I think are the noise, and the gas consumption (this one's the one I'm not sure) but if we can make a helicopter like that it would be awesome since they're simple, and doesn't need tail rotors to fly.
I was looking for this before I posted my own comment lol
@@JayHeartwing Won't gas consumption be significantly less than a standard copter, as explained in this vid?
@@johnaweiss I don't think so as pulse jets are so thirsty. Noise and fuel consumption were always their problem
@@johnaweiss It is more efficient to just use a rotor spun by torque from a motor.
Glad I found your channel, very cool project!
Welcome aboard
Great idea, excited to see what you do with part 2 :)
Forward flight testing is underway for part 2, then maybe a part 3 with directional control while spinning
That's pretty sick! And I love how it looks like an imperial shuttle when it was flying forward!
i wonder if two wings can be turned oposite directions and the third be used as stabilization like a plane's tail. it would be so weird but so cool see it flying like that
This seems like a really cool idea for drone photography. Yes the camera spinning would pose a challenge, but the extra flight time would be a huge draw while still being able to hold position, slowly move around with that efficiency, and even fly like a plane
For lidar drones the rotation would not be that much of an issue. Doesn't really matter how the laser hits the ground as long as the instruments can geolocate it properly
The camera spinning would prob cancel out the energy savings as it’s turning the exact same amount inverse
@@greggotheeggo2354 It's not really a function of the speed of rotation. The camera support would impose little mechanical resistance, and any air resistance on the camera would actually help to keep the camera from rotating, so the camera stabilisation would not require that much power. The power required to spin the propellers and pull the (much larger) three bladed wing through the air would be significantly greater.
Maybe have the center hub in a bearing so it doesn't spin with the rest of the drone. Or have the camera on a bearing so it can't spin with the body of the drone. Framing would be a bitch though 😅
I am not sure the spinning is any real problem and may in fact be a benefit. It would give an automatic panorama view with a fixed frame view derived computationally. Think how synthetic aperture radar improves image resolution as the camera traverses terrain giving result likea much larger apparent lens. Numerous satellites spin to cover a larger field of view and specific images are collected with the object comes into view. All this is done by software and don't need to be mechanically corrected on the drone itself.
This is some incredibly brilliant stuff!
I've had this in my head for 40 years still haven't quit got the skills to reinvent aircraft control to make it work. Looking forward to your approach. My imaginary version used one wing and one motor counterweighted by the battery. Also a strip scanning camera in conjunction with a post processor that reconstructs a conventional view. All this is all way more achievable now than 40 years ago but remains above my skill level. Not sure why you thought it was counter intuitive though.
5:24 damn fallen and can't get up
sweet project
lol thanks!
3:28 - Let's catch it gently (reaching for it).
Drone: A sharp whirring "No!" your not touching me ground-hand & Full throttle escape to the sky. 😂
Really cool. I like how you tried to dumb it down so we could understand. I still didn't. But i appreciate you doing so
This is brilliant. Well done!
I want to watch more about the capabilities of this design. So nice of you to share it publicly.
My jaw dropped when you whent forward flight with this
_TOTALLY HYPED_
That´s great home-engineering. Your video reminds me when i was younger, and i modified an IR indoor helicopter by making a whole new blades with bigger surface and sharper attack edges, so the tiny motors energy was used better, the Helicopter was then, able to hover in air even when entered in low battery mode, for automatic landing.
Brilliant idea, you are making me wanting to go back to engineering and study aerospace
So awesome! What a great solution for climbing and descending incredibly efficiently!
This guy gets it
A flying propeller. So genius! You just got my subscription. Can’t wait to see what comes next.
I got big Imperial Shuttle vibes in that last shot of it flying away. Cool design
This is why I love physics, and wish I would've have good math teachers in my lower education to entice me to pursue higher education in physics. I always struggled with math in grades 6-12. It wasn't till my senior year or college that I took an advanced business calculus class, and realized I wasn't terrible at math, I just didn't have very good instructors before this. The guy was a literal rocket scientist who helped develop the space shuttle fuel tanl jettison rockets after the Challenger disaster. I thought I was screwed as soon as I heard he was a rocket scientist, but I ended up excelling in his glass, and, for the first time in my life, understood the theory behind the problems presented to me (as opposed to just memorizing steps). As a result, I aced every test without even needing to use my allowed double-sided note card. I didn't need to memorize steps because he ensured we knew the "WHY"/theory behind our calculations/problems.
So many of these situations don't make sense to me, logically. But when the science is explained to me in a way I can understand, it makes perfect sense!
When I was about 12/13 I built this *exact* setup (albeit in a quad rotor configuration) in a game called SimplePlanes. I wasn't measuring efficiency or anything, it was just fun to play around with the game's physics. Super cool video!!
My first view of your videos, and I am now very interested in the next generation of developements this design causes. I am a nerd without any budget at the time and vuicariously live through such content, Thank you sir for sharing.
That's a nice lawn mower right there, this bad boy can spin real fast and efficiently
This is seriously brilliant! Thinking out of the box to the nth degree.
Dude, this is awesome. Great stuff you've developed. I'm gonna look into that flight controller you mentioned, Thanks!
Dude this is awesome. You've stumbled onto something that could change drones forever. Just isolate that center with a camera or a payload and you've got yourself a promising platform!
I love the sudden boost in throttle when you covered the altitude sensor. Its lke it screamed after getting goosed.
"1000 years of death!"
If you have the exact same setup, but have the large propeller fixed to a rail and then have another outer rail that the inner rail runs on. You could perhaps have a sensor that relays the speed of the propeller through to a controller that controls a motor that rotates the outer unit in the opposite direction. You could then mount 3 very small motors to the Outer Unit to control the direction. If three thin arms protrude downward from the outer rail, you can even mount the camera.
You should use this design to build a working Focke-Wulf Triebflügel.
That would be awesome. Might not be too hard to strap a fixed-frame fuselage to this thing….
The rotor setup reminds me of how the Rotodyne was setup for hover.
Love me some tip jets
Seeing how this thing took off at horizontal flight made my jaw drop. Amazing! 8:10
Great video and a cool idea. Besides the energy efficiency, this should also be more robust to position errors. The angular momentum will keep it from tilting and thrusting in the wrong direction. Did you have any problems with MPU data while spinning?
Descent could be very efficient, you would need to store momentum thanks to the air the drone meets during descent....at the end of the descent you change the wings angle, so that you transform the drone from turbine that has stored the potential energy in to a propeller that pushes it self upwards to slow down.
I also wonder how a spinning drone like that could understand its horizontal direction of travel while the entire system is spinning, in a future model
Really cool work!
If you add another wing you can benefit from wing lift, like a plane, when moving in a lateral direction
Your work is just amazing!
Thank you for this amazing idea time to make a Kickstarter
The German, Focke Wulf Trebfluegel VTOL may not have been as much fringe science as previously believed. Nice work getting your Tri-copter to outperform other multi-copters in hover. I will definitely be following your progress of this unique model.
That was my first thought too!
As always impeccable work man. It’s like a tip jet rotor but so much better!
My thoughts exactly. I wonder if you could make a highly efficient 'personal helicopter' by replacing the tip jets with electric motors and small props ? Or ducted fans maybe ?
@@Haawser Thay was my first thought too.
ha haha..cutting the grass with the drone at the end...fantastic idea for adding wings to reduce the energy for longer flight..well done!
Amazing idea and video explanation
This may have already occurred to you but I realized while watching that if you want to carry a load with this the best option may be to use a sort of hanging gyro ball connected with a bearing beneath the center so that the load (potentially people) would not be affected by the entire body spinning.
I'm not sure how practical that is to implement but I would definitely enjoy seeing an attempt! (or even an attempt at another potentially better method)
Potentially people? Why'd you fly in this over a helicopter?
*Innovation at it's finest! Great job!*
this is very cool thank you for making this a video and making ur code open source.
Nicholas: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"
Awesome build man. I might just have a play with the print files.
Thanks! Go for it!
Great work ‼️ You are definitely onto something. I'm sure well soon see adaptation by the commercial drone makers. 👍👍👍❤️
Great content! Thanks for sharing
Interesting! You might look into the designs of some helicopters that had various propulsion methods at the tips of the blades. I recall seeing one a few years ago that was still flying!
Yes, Rex - somewhere (iirc) there is a 'prop-copter' site, which references the H.E.P.A.R.S. approach as well as some _very_ early work by Curtis? Hang on . . . Found it! Searched on 'propcopter' , also there is a Wikipedia page on the massive Curtiss-Bleecker Helicopter from 1930.... I have a long-dead toy with 2 articulated blades and a cross-piece with two motors/props that flew reliably back in the day . . . Interesting!
@@250tegra Interesting! But, ummm.... what does H.E.P.A.R.S. stand for? I couldn't find it online (at least it was turning into more work than asking you)
Instead of putting the props on the tips of the blades, you could put them closer to the hub. Since they would now work in a lower speed airflow, their efficiency could improve.
Also, this drone could be fractal, has each propeller could be made on the the same principle .
Actually, higher inflow/velocity is more efficient depending on the pitch of the prop 04:18
@@NicholasRehm Usually the larger the prop, the better the efficiency. In that case I suppose every prop has its optimal RPM efficiency by design, but slow props are more efficient overall ...
Blown away! Thank you!
Awesome ! Congratulations !
Holy s... that's cool.
How about an "fpv pod" (camera and transmitter) with it's own battery and brushless motor to counteract the rotation underneath the main battery/ center of the main drone frame?
Also, with independent servos on each wing, you should be able to emulate the pitch controll of a helicopter and steer it in 'spinning mode'.
wups, missed it at 8:28 out of excitement. Can't wait for the next videos and iterations!
Great ideas!
@@NicholasRehm looking at all the other comments and suggestions, your transmitter might run out of switch positions for all the different flight modes :'D
@@mugslschlaengli5928 gonna have to add voice control lol