To be clear, Angron still sucks, but his suckiness is the result of an intricate and engaging story of tragedy. So that makes him unsuck. Something that doesn't suck is Crossfire : Legion. A blend of all your classic RTS favs from your childhood : wehy.pe/y/3/Majorkill Succ : www.patreon.com/majorkill
+Majorkill What happened to the warp god within Angron when they performed the surgery? Did it change as his body did or was it driven out of his body?
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Angron is more aware than you would think. His conversation with Russ was one of the best parts of the Heresy - "You are free, Leman Russ of Fenris, because your freedom matches the Emperor’s will. For each time I wage war against worlds that threaten the Imperium’s advance, there comes another time when I am told to conquer peaceful worlds that wish only to be left alone. I am told to destroy whole civilisations and call it liberation. I am told to demand millions of men and women from these new worlds, to make them take up arms in the Emperor’s hordes, and I am told to call this a tithe, or recruitment, because we are too scared of the truth. We refuse to call it slavery."
@@PodreyJenkin138 It's called 'conscription', which has never been a popular thing anywhere at any point in history. Especially from people who just conquered your planet, butchered a solid number of people you once knew and overthrew the local ruler which may or may not have been a good thing.
Eldar Farseer: "So if he ever gets the Butcher's Nails implanted in him, he's totally gonna fall to Khorne and be a monster, but if he doesn't he's gonna be bro tier, and his dad will eventually kill She Who Thirsts for us, so let's make sure he doesn't get caught by the High Riders." Best Ending.
Oh and here are some world eaters why don't you take them back down with you and use them to conquer the planet. Let me know when you're done and we'll come get you OK. Have fun!
If it weren't for the Eldar attempting to ambush kid Angron out of fear he becomes Khorne's champion from their visions, he wouldn't have been injured enough to be captured by Nucerian slavers and end up having the Butcher's Nails on his head in the first place. In short, the blame lies on the Eldar's tendency to commit Self-Fulfilled Prophecy.
the eldar are those rich snobby kids who finally got what they deserved then they just kept doing things that caused them to keep getting what they deserve
@@alphariusomegon3965 from my knowledge (so far) they basically caused the fall of two Primarchs, Fulgrim and Angron. Fulgrim by banging Slaanesh into existence and Angron by thinking they can do everything.
Angron is like watching a beaten and abused dog running at a small child snarling its head off. Logically AND emotionally it's very easy to understand it ain't the dogs fault. It doesn't deserve this, doesn't deserve the pain, the shit life, the world teaching it to be this way. poor sad little creature. but you still have to put it down as fast as possible because look what it's about to do.
I never really liked Angron. But the more I learn about him, the more of a truly tragic figure he really is. More so than the other Primarchs, the Emperor really did Angron wrong. Any other choice could have had him as an ally. Adeptus Ridiculous did a really good discussion about him that makes him a tragic character.
His origin book even implies the Emperor designed him to be the Heart of the Primarchs. As a child he was extremely caring and empathetic and had the power to take in peoples fears and nightmares so the other fighters could have a peaceful sleep. When E finally found him he was shocked to see what the planet had turned him into because he was never supposed to be what he became.
@@michaelhunt3332 I meany weakened like just been forcefully kidnapped and without a weapon or armour and injured. All this and he still killed a custode
‘He howled?’ asked Lorgar. His eyes were wide, pearly with soft wonder. ‘The call to retreat,’ Angron replied. ‘A fighting retreat - it took longer than you can imagine for the World Eaters to realise the battle was over. I had whole companies still trying to fight the Wolves as Russ’s Legion ran for their gunships.’ He chuckled. ‘They took a lot of trophies for their tallies. Many wear them still.’ For several moments, Lorgar had to watch his brother’s flawed face to make sure this wasn’t some elaborate jest. ‘You didn’t answer Russ’s question,’ he said. ‘Did you truly learn nothing from that fight?’ Angron blinked, the dull edge of surprise coming into his eyes. ‘What revelation should I have come to? I learned he wasn’t allowed to kill me. I learned he postured in the hope of bringing me back to Terra, collared and submissive to his whims.’ ‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief. ‘No, no, no. Angron, you stubborn fool. None of that matters.’ ‘There were more dead Wolves on that field than dead World Eaters. That matters.’ That, thought Lorgar, was also arguable, but he let it pass. ‘Russ had you cold. You said you had him at your mercy, but he crawled free.’ ‘He crawled.’ Angron chuckled again, making a meal of the word. ‘And when he rose, he had you surrounded. He could have killed you.’ ‘He tried and failed.’ ‘His men, Angron. His Legion could have killed you. Whether the Emperor ordered it or not, Russ spared your life. He didn’t retreat in shame, you arrogant…’ Lorgar sighed. ‘He was probably lamenting your thick skull all the way back to Terra, hoping you’d heed a rather consummate lesson in brotherhood and loyalty. Look what happened. Yes, you beat him in a duel. Yes, your men took down more of his than his of yours. And yet, who won the battle?’ ‘The World Eaters,’ Angron said without hesitation. Lorgar just stared at him for several seconds. ‘I appreciate that every living being must, by the nature of perception, understand and process life in a different way. But even for you, brother, this is achingly obtuse.’ ‘You’re saying the Wolves won.’ Angron looked more amused than confused. ‘How can you not see it?’ Lorgar steepled his fingers, trying to rein in his own temper. ‘They won a victory worthy of engraving on their armour for all time. While you were glorying in your strength, Russ’s sons were loyal enough to come to him, to surround you both, to threaten your life while you stood at the vanguard of your own Legion. That may be the most comprehensive moment of outmanoeuvring in the history of the Legiones Astartes. It’s almost poetic in its elegance and emotional resonance. He proves his sons’ loyalty, while yours leave you to die. He proves the damage the Nails are doing to your Legion. He proves the tactical strength of taking an objective rather than fighting purely to kill. He spares your life in the hope you’ll see all of this, in a lesson it cost him heavily to teach you, and your reaction is to grin and claim yourself the victor.’ Angron didn’t chuckle that time. Lorgar could see it in his brother’s tensed muscles - some cognitive switch had clicked somewhere in his consciousness, and Angron’s rage was rising again. ‘Only one of us ran away that night. He’s weak.’ ‘Gods’ blood.’ Lorgar was still managing, barely, to speak calmly. ‘The primarchs are the bridge between the Emperor and the species he leads. We are all weak, for we are all equal. All of us. We are humanity magnified: its virtues and its flaws.’ ‘I am not weak. I have never been weak.’ ‘You are not only weak if you fail to understand Russ’s lesson, you are also a fool.’
You know people give Russ a lot of shit for the night of the wolf but I find it Ironic that Russ was the only brother that cared enough about Angron to try and help him without any ulterior motive.
Should have brought up the fact that his last rage before ascension was caused by Guilliman smashing the skulls of his lost gladiator brethren because he thought they were trophies.
Is it mentioned Guilliman thought they were trophies? I always assumed he did it out of spite, since the traitors already massacred entire planets and all that.
That, plus once Lorgar started the ritual it stole a second killing blow from Angron. He had Russ and Girlyman both dead to rights, and both times they skirted out of it. So that mixed with some of his "family's" remains being crushed really got him deep into that Khorne goodness
kill who? if its the gladiators your talking about, he took the skulls for sentimental and obvious reasons. he didn't kill them or plan to, although the big E basically killed the gladiators inderectly but directly by leaving them leaderless and hopeless
Why I've been craving to see a uncorrupted clone of Angron without the butchers nails in his head. Can you imagine Guiliman hearing that something like his brother was spotted on some backwater agri world only to find Angron chilling in a hammock after having escaped the cloning vats or some such.
Dude this sounds like some badass headcannon. Games workshop could have their cake and eat it too. Have him swear off of warfare entirely and go into exile because he has his empathic powers. It'd be like the spear that Big E gave to Russ but Angron wouldn't have the option to put it down. It could be like the Butchers Nails in reverse.
eldar: we can’t let him become the demon prince of khorne. eldar: *weakens him* angron: *become slave, get butchers nails and now a demon prince of khorne.* eldar: wait this wasn’t supposed to happen.
I like how lograr turned angron into a demon primarch. As much as it is a complete tragedy he basically wanted to save one of the few people close to him, and in his own sick way, he did
This is why I love the World Eaters, especially Khârn and Angron. They weren’t blood thirsty maniacs to begin with, but instead became that way as a “fuck you” to Big E.
The Eldar never realized that their paranoia and reckless action was just a piece towards one of 40k’s many tragic domino effects. They never thought that it was their ambush that served as a key to the prophecy’s fruition.
That's the Eldar for you. A Farseer could come with a prophecy that the eggs will be burnt if they wait to long to lift it and they'd just crank the heat up to speed up the process, unknowingly burning the eggs they were trying to save.
Unfortunately this is a result of GW's obsession with the "dying race" trope which means the Eldar have to always lose and be handed the idiot ball, but somehow still have enough people and warriors to keep fighting and be jobbers for 10k years.
It's worth pointing out that we don't know what the prophesy was.For all we know a loyalist Angron/World Eaters might have done more damage to the Eldar than their Chaos counterparts.
@@oceanberserker it does help them. It's well known that they would rather see the whole of mankind burn if it can save à single one of their people. They would rather see the galaxy burn for 10k years than have humanity rise and finish them.
Can't recall if this is true or if I remembering something else, but during the great crusade, Angron took a ship and fucked off alone to some random uninhabited world and basically just wanted to be left alone and die only for kharn to to convibce him to get back in the fight. If true it paints his situation as more tragic and depressing since even then he still wanted just to be left alone and get some personal peace only to be dragged back into more war.
On the wiki they mentioned it, it took two years for Khârn to find him on a feral world living like a savage and looking for something that could kill him.
Add to that Kharn's contemplations on Angron. He told Argel Tal and Garviel Loken that him and the World Eaters agreed to the Butcher's Nails and did all they did, despite knowing this would ruin them, only to feel kinship to Angron. They saw all the other legions get demigods they looked upon with awe. They got Angron the Broken. With all the resentment he felt for them, they could not let him go. Only after too many of them were past caring, and were just hateful, rage-filled bastards like him, did they start hating him - mostly cuz hate is all they had left at that point.
I read somewhere that Angron was meant to be the perfect guard dog. Letting children ride on his back one moment, and ripping out the throats of his master's enemies the next.
He was supposed to be like a second Vulkan yeah. A brother the other Primarchs could go to for some emotional support, advice, and unjudging understanding
@@ironduke5058 Yeah out of all the primarchs (except maybe Vulkan) he seemed to be the most human as empathy was his power, they could also make him a renegade Primarch after seeing all the horrors the emperor committed, not seeing the bigger picture since he focused only on the pain he inflicted
Angron hadn't succeeded in conquering his planet YET. But Nurcia had loads of dark age technology, like the nails, and other goodies, that made the overlords of that world particularly difficult to shift. How much of an accomplishment was it for the other Primarchs, to rise to the top of their feral / feudal worlds? In fact, it's kind of interesting that the most troubled primarchs were the ones who landed on planets of higher tech levels that both seriously challenged them, and revealed the dark nature of humanity.
In fact, the reason why the emperor left Angron's followers to die was because he had made an arrangement with the leaders of the planet. This shows that even the emperor consider them a powerful force, better dealt with trough diplomacy than trough the force of arms.
@@ArgentumFox I highly doubt that the Nurcerians were that much of a threat to the Imperium by the time the Emperor found Angron. And I would've thought that big E would've wanted to wipe them out for irreversibly damaging one of his primarchs. Because even if you believe that the primarchs were nothing but tools to the Emperor, they were very important tools and having some uppity mortals all but completely break one should've made him extremely angry to say the least.
My theory is worse. What if Angron was meant as a poison pill for Khorne? If you were the emperor, implied to know half the primarchs would turn against you, wouldn’t you try to give chaos primarchs that would hinder it? And what better to hinder Khorne then a Empathic healer forced into the berserker role. Now look at what Angron actually did after becoming a daemon: He does nothing but fail. Angron was a sacrifice by the emperor to prevent someone like Russ or Sanguinius falling to Khorne and becoming an unstoppable champion of Khorne.
Plausible. The Emperor is always playing 3D chess. He knew half the Primarchs were going to fall to Chaos. Might as well sabotage the ones that fall so it undermines the Chaos Gods. Mortarian has daddy issues; this applies not only to his Necromancer adopted dad and Big E, but Nurgle as well. His innate resentment of authority figures compels him to act contrary to their designs. Compared to Typhus, Mortarian hasn't really accomplished much for Grandpa. I think there's even conversations he has with other Primarchs revealing how reluctant he was to even join Chaos. Then, to top it off, he's surrounded by the thing he hates; psychers or - more generally - the source of all psychic power, the Warp. Yeah, not exactly a cheerleader for Chaos. Lorgar has spent the last 10,000 years hiding in his tower from Corvus. He never wanted to be a warrior in the first place. 'Nuff said. Fulgrim is so self-absorbed to the point of being ineffectual in any major way. Granted, Big E was taken by surprise by Fulgrim's betrayal (that whole switcheroo pulled by Cegorach with Jagatai and Fulgrim). Even so, what has Fulgrim really accomplished aside getting nuked by Rylanor (a psychological insult he still hasn't - and likely never will - recover from)? Not much. Perturabo, the petulant man-boy, is so fed up with the other traitors he doesn't even want anything to do with them. No cooperation, no coordination of effort. Even though that's exactly what he advocates for, he's given up on it because (1) Chaos gonna Chaos; coordinated effort ain't their strong suit and (2) he doesn't take losses well, resorting to pouting and sulking in isolation. He spanked Rogal in the Iron Cage, patted himself on the back over the "win", retreated into the Warp, and called it a day. Magnus. Ah, poor Magnus. The try-hard who wants to be respected as one of the cool kids but just can't overcome his nerdish tendencies. Tzeentch, I imagine, gets quite the kick out of manipulating Magnus' insecurities, watching him endlessly chase his own tail in circles, within circles, within circles. Magnus pretty much gets stomped out every time he shows up in the materium. Which then eats him alive inside as he fails once again. All-in-all Chaos got a bum deal. The traitor Primarchs are pretty much all losers and/or their heart just ain't in it.
Damn, this really hits home with the story where Horus laments how all the traitor legions at his command are the broken ones. If he could have had Guilliman, Russ, or Dorn at his side, he would be unstoppable. But no, he can barely control the broken legions. Angron's murderous need to stop at every planet to drown it in blood slowed his path to Terra. Fulgrim became completely unreliable. Lorgar was obsessed with worshiping Chaos gods. Curze he never got much out of for his own benefit...
3:25 If the Eldar hadn't attacked Angron, he would have gone to the route that of his Roboutian Heresy counterpart who managed to evade the Nucerian slavers, dodged the nails and later successfully liberated Nuceria from the High Riders before Big E arrived.
So once again it's the Eldar's fault that the galaxy is fucked over. I mean think about it, he could've used his empath abilities on the traitor primarchs and there would be no Heresy to begin with. I would even go as far as to say that not even Lorgar would've turned traitor, he would still resent Big E for Monarchia yes, but would probably not side with chaos.
@@morgothable it truly was a loss that we never saw what his other abilities were. Maybe he could've calmed Lorgar after his scolding by the Big E, or even made Magnus understand why the Big E never wanted him to study the warp.
@@NathanMarcusSPhua Ah yes, attempting to assassinate Angron is actually what led to Lorgar's humiliation and the total destruction of his entire worldview because the Emperor was an inhuman asshole and militant atheist... in fact, the Eldar made the Emperor into a militant atheist in the first place! And took away his humanity! And they also were the ones who made Magnus so narcissistic so he'd fall the Tzeentch. It's also totally the Eldar's fault that Konrad had horrible visions and was so fucked up psychologically. It is also the Eldar's fault Mortarion and his Legion were subjected to Nurgle's plagues. Lmao
@@iamdream2562 no, I meant if Angron didn't lose his powers of taking people's suffering away from them, he could've used it on the primarchs that would've turned traitor.
Tonite On Major Gear: Hammond goes toe to toe with Angron, James organises the Butchers nails and Jeremy presses the Teleport to ship button, pissing off Angron even more
In the book: Scions of the Emperor, short story: "the chamber at the end of memory". Survey crews dug a little too deep and inadvertently triggered some psychic wards put in place by Malcador to protect the tomb of lost primarchs. When Rogal Dorn arrived he recognized something familiar to the architecture, a sensation. His thoughts pulls him towards the memories of his "lost" brothers, but unable to recall the specifics of what they did. Then Malcador arrives, from nowhere. It would later be reveled that Malcador had locked away Dorns memories of his brothers, after his request. Dorn did not believe him, so Malacdor unlocked those memories - and dorn understood, that if they were here the war would already have been lost.
And that's why the 2 lost primarchs are one of my favorites as far as 40k lore is concerned. I mean at my core I'm a secret seeker, so I want to know what they were, why they were erased from history, what was their crime, how powerful they were or could've been, if Dorn says something like that.
@@AZIONG651 well if the space wolves and dark angels had to go in, get their ass kicked and had to get back up the imperium would have gotten fucked hard if they were still here
I feel like making him a mindless berserker in the end, while tragic and undoubtedly grimdark, is a missed opportunity cause lucid Angron could have been a great foil to the surviving loyalist Primarchs.
I have trouble believing the highly noble, honorable, and empathetic Angron without nails would have ever gone chaos. He’s be more bro tier than Sangiunius and Vulkan
"You ravage worlds of men, and annihilate their children and cultures unless they bend the knee to you. You claim to be for the future of Humanity, FATHER, but it's a future beneath your boot and guided by your whip! You might have a vision for humanity, but you have NONE yourself! My Nucerians fought for their Freedom, and my Legion will be the Chain-breakers against your rule! You craft a future where you rule over humanity, my future is a future where Humanity decides, TYRANT!" Angron, Primarch of the LEGIO XII "Chainbreakers", at the onset of the Angronian Apostasy. "WE DIE STANDING AND WE DIE FREE!" ~ Warcry of the Chainbreakers Legion.
He spared the gladiators who FOUGHT WELL. Not 'had kids' or such reasons - no, the ones who fought well. That's Khorne, before the nails. Not necessarily traitor legion level of Khorne, but.. not all that angelic. But those nails... that's just a bad idea all around.
Here’s the thing though, the Angron who became the Deamon Prince was already severely severed from the warp entity that he drew his power from, so in essence, that primarch was already mostly “dead” and just a powerful being. When the Chaos Gods turn a primarch into a deamon prince they are expelling the warp entities that were connected to that primarch and filling that empty, very very powerful body, with their own essence. I’m my head cannon and mind, the primarchs were incredibly enhanced living bodies that you could capture and stuff a warp entity into as a soul. A human body can take a very small soul, a primarch body can take a (minor) warp god as a soul. The emperor created perfect bodies and made a deal with the chaos gods to give him the old minor gods that they had eaten to use them as souls for the primarch bodies he was creating. The deal that the emperor had broken was his end of the bargain that he would also create primarch like bodies for the gods themselves to inhabit. Just like the chaos gods have extensions of themselves represented as minor and greater daemons, the space marines are the same thing for the primarchs but in a physical form. When they are turned into a primarch, their souls are infused with that of their primarchs and they become an extension of them.
Ya angron has a tragic story I still don’t like him but I do feel he’s the only primarch who would have a legit reason to betray the emperor out of all the traitors
@@scottberry1073 what was his reason actually I don’t know much about him other then he was atheist and killed his sister and everyone on his planet then joined Horus
I actually like Lorgars reason as well. My sympathy for lorgar only evaporated when he saw what he did to arghul tal and the gal vorbak. It is literally said that he saw what he had done to them but didn't change his ways even though he was one of the most compassionate primarchs next to sanguinius and vulkan. The initial reason for seaking out a new belief to put all the wars behind him was solid imo. Especially after the emperor did not just humiliate him but the entire word bearer legion in front of his eyes basically psycker torturing his son's into submission. Lorgar was also done dirty imo. Curferon and erebos are my most hated and loathed characters in the setting tbh.
@@PuddingXXL lorgar was a weakling and nothing more, he willingly limited himself to the worshiping of gods that he had no need to. He failed the moment he put his destiny into the hands of being that do not exist, then desperately try to seek out the gods of chaos only to prove a truth that is flawed in every aspects.
@@thecommentguy9380 You can't forget that he was majorly corrupted and influenced by his step dad. Remember it was curferon who made him a religious fanatic basically. Also lorgar always said that he hated war and suffering. He was one of the only primarchs who thought about what would happen after the crusade and that he wanted to be a poet and statesmen. He hated being seen as a tool for conquest and war when his abilities were mostly directed towards statesmen ship and governance even more so then guilliman. I agree that it was a weak will to immediatly go look for another God but that is in part fault to Magnus who could have told him of the great dangers in the warp. Instead Magnus exploded his home and basically did the Big E version of "Just trust me bro" even though Magnus knew of lorgars psychological state and even saw the corrupting influence of curferon. Lorgar had a similar tragic story to that of angron but instead of slavers implanting nails it was the Big E who did the same just on a soul level for lorgar. Big E also should have known that lorgar was influenced by outside forces (erebus and curferon) so it's not entirely his fault tbh.
6:46 Or Big E should have unleashed the World Eaters Legion to aid Angron and fight side by side with their Primarch to destroy the High Riders and claim Nuceria for the Imperium.
The Emperor not having a truly valid reason to spare Nuceria's oligarchy is a major plot hole. It's left to the reader's imagination. I guess they had very valuable knowledge/technology and submitted before the imperial fleet's arrival. I also guess the Emperor had no great plan for Angron and his legion and was only interested in using them while they were still functional, before erasing them all.
@@t.m.t3215 Which doesn't speak well to Big - E's thought process or character. I don't care how many shinies the Shit - Riders had to offer, Big - E could've just outright conquered the planet and taken them all anyway. Considering the full out depravity of the Shit Riders, he would've been more than justified in doing so and that would've easily won Angron to his side. The only thing that would've made it better and probably turned him into an outright fanatic for Big - E would be if he not only saved his buddies, but personally took to the field with Angron so they could conquer Nuceria together. Perfect father - son bonding moment and everybody wins! But no, E in all his inscrutable dickery chose THAT moment of all times to act like a damn troll. Fast forward to the Horus Heresy and Angron's basically saying 'That's right! Who's laughing now, old man!!! WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!!!!'
@@oceanberserker The Emperor at that point had lost all basic human empathy and could not bring himself to the level of minds different than his, nor did he care. The fact that the custodes were the only beings he somehow felt good with is a massive red light about how far removed from humanity he now was. He was only thinking in pros and cons: "XII is damaged beyond repair, it won't last long, I'm just gonna use it as long as it can function, then I will destroy it. I'm keeping that faithful asset (Nuceria) intact." Which of course turned out to be a catastrophic mistake.
As tragic as Angron's backstory is, I think you could have made it FAR more tragic by not putting the nails in his head. He was an empath, designed to take to help ease the pain of the others. In the 40K Universe, there is simply too much pain to be eased, just from his brother's alone (nevermind the greater galaxy) especially dealing with the rejection Lorgar felt and the Agony Curze's visions caused him, the frustration of Pertarabo having to deal with the Hrud alone, and Magnus's betrayal after the sacking of Prospero and Big E. being the derelict dad he was just one day breaks Angron. That his joining of the heresy was the biggest shock, and made his brothers question if they weren't at least a bit justified at bringing their father down. Then of course, Lorgar basically just somehow taps Angron into the pain of the galaxy that flows into the warp and that leads him to a path of rage. A rage that never stops, for he feels the pain he causes under Chaos and his own frustration further driving him along then path of every spiraling madness. That he wants to stop, but can't as the pain he know causes further feeds his anger, understanding that he, like the galaxy is broken and that no matter how much that tiny voice inside wants to stop, he knows he has long drowned in the sea of blood and fury that will only end when the cruel galaxy does.
@@toheekang174 Yes, but he's screwed by the collective cruelty of the emperor's failure to raise his sons and the galaxy as a whole instead of his world's royalty and Big E cutting his losses. It's more tragic since in current lore, everyone knew the second the Hersey happened, how Angron would declare, however in this scenario, the empathetic Angron, who was always there for his brothers falling would shake even the loyalists to their core.
If angron didn’t have the nails their wouldn’t be a heresy because the primarchs would the support of angron which wouldn’t leave them vulnerable to corruption, lorgar wouldn’t have fallen to chaos if a nails free angron was there to support him in his hour of need That goes for most traitor primarchs, with a supporting and loving brother like angron who’s always there for them and is able to take away their pain , chaos wouldn’t be able to even get close to corrupt any of the primarchs
Vulkan may have been the Heart but Angron was born for that role. I imagine if things had been different Angron and Vulkan would have been good friends, Angrons legion could have even played a role in helping planets recover after a successful invasion given his empathetic abilities and that Primarch legions personalities closely resemble the Primarch themselves.
Imagine a timeline where Angron and Sanguinius were best mates, a pair of legendary honour-bound brothers loved and respected by their brothers. One can only dream.
Two Primarchs would be most deserving of a redemption arc: Angron and Magnus. They were fucked over the most from the beginning. Angron is actually one of my favorite Primarchs because of his backstory (I started my WH40K journey with the Horus Heresey books, so I got his backstory early on).
Nope, Magnus was done in by his own arrogance. While the flesh changes were planted by Tzeentch, Magnus was still arrogant enough to think he could solve all the problems. While the Emperor did a shit job at warning the Primarchs about the dangers of the Warp and Chaos, Magnus was told time and again to stop f**king around with the Warp. But did he listen? No.
@@twinphalanx4465 Fanfiction isn't a bad place to start writing. If you got mates into Warhammer 40K you could write down the story and show it to them, get feedback and all that.
@@PuddingXXL Betrayer was about Angron and Lorgar waging war in Ultramar, you might be thinking of Deliverance Lost when the Alpha Legion absolutely butt stuffed the Raven Guard and ruined their shot at rebuilding. Another on of my favorites for sure 👌🏽
Must admit, my view of Angron was very much influenced by your take, but having recently read The Betrayer novel from the Heresy I feel a lot more sympathy for him as a character. He is still the worst of the Primarchs, but the reasons for his shortfalls are explained really well in this book.
For me perturabo is the worst written primarch. Not one book where he appears makes his reasoning for betrayal solid. He is more so a whiny cry baby that was corrupted like a common guardsmen. Perturabo is just poorly written in my eyes. Angron at least had a reason to slaughter an entire planet full of his sons while perturabos reasoning was "lol I spite dad"
Get in Slave of Nuceria, After Deshe'a, and The Butcher's Nails as well. Those with betrayer give you basically the full Angron run down from him landing on that shit hole of a planet, up to daemonhood at the end of Betrayer. It's depressing as fuck. I play World Eaters and got into them simply because of Kharn and the models. Thought Angron was basic as hell, then hit the lore and just felt genuinely bad for the dude. It's a lot like Frankenstein's monster, Angron effectively died in those pits, and the monster Big E found had been stitched together with a bad brain and only shown violence and hate.
Just realized that the "every Primarch planet works for them" still applies to Angron. If it wearn't for the Eldar, then there was a world out there for Angron to pull towards the light, oppressed populations to fill with hope, and vicious tyrants for him to prove they are wrong in their ways. But again, the Eldar.
The eldar are basically the living example of the saying “one often meets fate on the road to avoid it” or something like that, by looking into a possible future and acting upon that limited knowledge , they wouldn’t have doom angron to be a Demon of khorne
Angorn was a broken man enslaved by monsters who took enjoyment of the suffering and bloodshed of others, and even with the Emperor aid he could never truly be healed by his help. Angorn is now a slave to perhaps a even worst monster in the form of Khorne who doesn’t truly likes him and would have preferred sanguinarius as his champion.
@@ScooterinAB Irrc the emperor implied somewhere (not sure where) that he could actually remove the nails from angron, but just never did. The Emperor essentially gave angron evrey reason imaginable to fall to chaos.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 Pretty much, to one degree or another, pretty much all of the traitor primarchs had legitimate beef with Big - E, but out of all of them, Angron had the most reason to hate him.
@@ScooterinAB by the time they got him to Mars, removing the nails would've killed him. It was too late. But I think even with nails, if Big E had helped Angron on Nuceria then he would've been loyal until his death, seeing his father as more of a liberator and less of just another tyrant. The most depressing part of Angron's story is that he just wanted to be free, live and die with his brothers and sisters from the pit. Instead he remained a slave his entire life, Nuceria, the Emperor, Lorgar and Horus, then Khorne. He was even a slave to the nails, once they bit deep enough he would effectively black out, going into his murderous rage.
I thought Angron was low tier until I read Betrayer. After that it’s really hard to not have pity for him. The descriptions of the Butchers Nails is some of the most horrifying shit I’ve ever read. He fantasises about a simple moment of quiet the way Majorkill (and other individuals of high culture) fantasise about a sexy warhammer 40k themed cosplay Hooters, just big tiddy Eldar goth gfs bringing pints of beer to the table aka Heaven.
I honestly think it's just another example of BL's terrible writing when it comes to Eldar. I have no problem with Eldar losing to a Primarch lol, but how is it that an Eldar hit-squad, supposedly sent by a trained Farseer who probably would have had visions of Angron's sheer dangerousness, somehow wasn't equipped to take out a baby primarch? Yet somehow later on, after he's grown older and more powerful, and has healed from his injuries, Nuceria's masters could easily knock him out and implant the nails into him?
One of the BL novels had an Eldar grav-tank getting taken out by a bunch of feral world kids throwing rocks into it's engines. The fuck man one of the most advanced war machines in the universe taken out by rocks! They can see into the future and rip thoughts out of peoples minds, they use the webway and can strike as they wish and leave without any one any the wiser to it. In battle they should be terrifying. But not one novel properly conveys this, it's all fucking stupid as hell.
I’m glad you’ve finally come around Majorkill. I’ve always liked Angron and his legion even though there are times when he can be written better. I do hope that eventually the dead and chaos Primarchs can be revived.
I feel like it’s less the character Angron his self’s fault, and more the fault of GW’e writers not giving him a whole lot of good writing and stories. This is especially so in the post Heresy period, where Angron is just a big ol generic berserker demon and nothing more. 🙁
The short story about his final days with the gladiator rebels changed my opinion of him, particularly when he's got his arm around the young kid with them trying to keep him warm and alive. His story became so much more tragic when you realized how much he cared about them.
I love how it's hinted that angron is actually the red Angel mentioned in the book of demonicus where sanguinius is lured to a planet to make him fall to khorne. It seemed kind of subtle how they hinted at the red wrathful Angel being Angron (although I know that it was actually a blood Angel psycker who became the red angel but still). It all adds up for my head canon :D
Do you know what is the problem with all head cannons...99,9% of the time they have nothing to do with reality and what actually is true, just fan fiction in its finest.🤣
@@vencislavgynev8282 I agree completely. Not saying it's canon but I like to imagine it is. It's also not that far fedged for myself since angron is truly named the red angel and is a substitute for sanguinius so it kind of makes sense canonically for myself. The vision that the psycker blood Angel squad have of the red angel is also aligning with how angron is in the books. Pretty sure the wrath fire that engulfs the blood Angel psycker is also a manifestation of the demon or rather demonic energy that posses angron and turns him into a demon Prince. There was some word bearers among the blood angels that also hint that horus and Erebus uses the now possessed and captured blood angel to ac5ually turn angron into a demon Prince when he gets almost killed. But yeah you're obviously right it's not confirmed or anything nor is it even spelled out so it is nothing more then fan fic but it makes enough sense for me to be my head canon/personal fan fiction of what it represents. That's why warhammer is so damn great because it's so vast and open that you truly make it your own in your head! Not saying anyone has to believe what I regard as headcanon tho! Just thought it might be a nice idea to round of and bring some of the different books and lores together into an overarching picture. :)
Let’s not forget the most raw quote from Angron said to Guilliman “‘Childish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.’ Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. ‘Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?’ Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. ‘And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?’ The two primarchs met again. Guilliman’s powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angron’s chainswords, but the World Eater’s strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angron’s lipless slit of a mouth. ‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.’”
I think he works really well when viewed as the opposite of Sanguinius. He’s the virtuous who goes berserk, where the blood angels do the exact opposite. I just wish this was written more clearly in to the lore
There is also the fact that they are both called angels (which angron resents a lot) and Angron was also the closest fight Sanguinius had by far before super chaos juiced Horus
Maybe a "Traitors from Loyalist Legions" video? -Luther and the Fallen Angels -Alastor (Raven Guard) -A small portion of the Iron Hands -A portion of the White Scars -Probably more I missed.
Best case scenario, Big E realised he came for Angron too late and decided Angron should be the opposing side of the heresy, that would mean the traitors would get a handicapped/weakened Primarch instead of a useful one.
I'm of the opinion that the modifications done to the Butcher's Nails to work on Angron would have left him too brain damaged to function properly/at all if they were simply removed, and with the Crusade in full swing, the Emperor did not want to spend the time and resources necessary to work up a better solution. Especially if the theories that the primarchs would have been "Thunder Warrior'd" at the end of the Crusade are accurate.
Honestly, it's a pretty obvious take. Being an empath requires a degree of sensitivity, and if you've ever looked into the lives of poets renowned for that trait in their work, you'll find a lot of them are violent drunks.
This is why I really prefer the loyalist version of him in the other alternate heresies since the actual lore makes his story so aggravating. So many things could've changed when the emperor just helps him win and save Angron's brothers and sisters.
But he has to be the edgiest edgelord, because his character was written for 12 year old boys who are way too hard into metal. I'd love to see more attempts to make him not all of the worst parts of the 80s and 90s and make him an actually 3-dimensional character.
@@ScooterinAB how the hell would they do that though? It's literally said that by the time he was getting ready to die and all the butchers nails had already shredded the rest of his brain and becoming a demon of Khorne didn't help.
@@nootnoot9784 By having mad him a 3-dimentional character and not just a cringy edgelord. The Butcher's Nails could have been something akin to an adrenal modification to make pitfighting more interesting to watch. This makes him prone to surges of aggression (possibly even something that can be turned on like a Star Wars droid's restraining bolt) without making him a 1-diminesional character. Instead we got a character who was lobotomized into being nothing but rage and edge and black trench coats, and that's fucking stupid and the entire problem with his character. He wasn't meant to be anything other than "and this one's the stupid barbarian," but that's really dumb and boring. Making him not dumb and boring and a complete joke would make his character far more interesting. But no, we have a boob named Angron who's only notable detail is that he doesn't have a brain and hits things.
The biggest tragedy is that when Angron was finally "rescued" by his father, the Emperor, his father did not help him. Instead of insuring the mental stability of his son, giving him counselling, and medical aid, Angron was thrown directly into war at the command of a legion of super humans. It shows how much of an arrogant idiot the Emperor was. And what he actually thought of others. If he would do this to his own son, what would he do to those who don't bear his genetic bloodline? The ultimate cause of the Horus Heresy was the Emperor's idiocy.
When you think the Emperor could've just gone down to the planet and fought back-to-back with Angron to help him. It would've basically turned him into the most loyal Primarch of all LOYALTY 4 LYFE style.
The reasoning why that doesn't happen falls into 2 different camps. *Camp 1 - The Emperor is PROFOUNDLY flawed* I know, I know, heretical. But, we've seen heaps of evidence that The Emperor is incredibly arrogant, short-sighted, selfish and overall a "poor decision maker" when it comes to just about anything regarding his sons. *Camp 2 - The Emperor planned the whole thing* I read that statement and immediatly my eyes glaze over, roll all the way over and I dryly smack my lips in sarcasm. It's such a cop-out of a writing tool to say "but it was the plan all along" for any story that is bizzare and convoluted _(lookin' at you bible)._ That being said, the more I read, the most this starts to make sense. When you look at conversation that Guilliman had with The Emperor post resurrection, G had essentially thrown in the towel and was ready to exile himself in disgust, but E managed to manipulate it _just_ right to give G the push he needed to go on a new crusade and rebuild the Imperium instead. _-Godblight_ It's entirely possible, that one of The Emperor's abilities, IS one of foresight. The Emperor has even said so Himself when speaking with Uriah, "I have seen the narrow path Humanity must walk." Perhaps he meant this literally rather than figurativly and much like Dr. Strange in Infinity War the Emperor 'looked at possible outcomes, and saw the one that would save humanity'. Perhaps, in order for that outcome to come to pass, a lot of shitty sacrifices need to happen. I have a feeling that the writers initally started out with Camp 1, but now might be slowly low-key retconning it into Camp 2. In the end, who the fuck knows. GW have made it clear time and time again with cracking down on fan content that they don't give a flying fuck about their fans, they just want their money. So, they will milk this cow until there's blood in the milk.
You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer.
I theorize that Angron's empath powers is what allowed him to defeat the eldar assasins. They are very emotional creatures and are often weak to certain psychic attacks. If they were dark eldar and he could remove suffering, then he could perhaps remove the residual suffering that is sustaining them.
Imagine if Angron had been allowed to fulfill his purpose of empath/moral anchor among the primarchs. May have lead to significantly less war crimes...
Being a powerful empath with butchers nails surrounded by 10,000 Marines that also have butchers nails... I think he lost his abilities, cause if he couldn't handle his own, how can he handle those of 10k Marines?
The empathic abilities made being a gladiator even more hellish. In Slave of Nuceria, it talks about his first event, having to scale a pyramid with other gladiators while the arena slowly fills with acid. Anytime another gladiator fell in, Angron felt their pain as if it was his own before they fully died. At a certain point in the climb he had no choice left but to survive and knock some gladiators in himself, which again he felt as they hit the burning liquid. Once the nails got put in, he was effectively lobotomized. No special primarch powers, no astartes felt the awe or reverence in his presence as they did other primarchs. There was only the nails; the pain engine singing and burning in his brain, and bloodshed which would get him as close to at peace as the nails would allow. There's a really sad exchange between Kharn and Argel-tal in betrayer before they make planetfall. Argel-tal mentions to Kharn about how Angron doesn't feel like a primarch, in that instinctual way that all Astartes genetically react to primarchs. He then goes on about how they nails are killing the World Eaters. Kharn tells him that they were one of the last to find their primarch, the only legion who's primarch didn't conquer his homeworld, refused the emperor, was broken before he even made it back to his sons. That the legion viewed this as their shame to bear. That when Angron ordered the nails, the legion thought that by breaking themselves on the same anvil as Angron, it would help them feel close to their gene sire, to connect with him. At this point, Argel-tal simply asks "it didn't work?" to which Kharn can only reply "no"
I remember hearing somewhere that Nuceria was somewhere inside the borders of Guilliman's growing empire... Imagine how things could have gone had he (Guilliman) gone to see some new world added to his dominion and discovered his brother before the Emperor had?
Angron was always my second favorite primarch. Reading his books and the angron primarch story were very satisfying. I knew he was a character that you really had to read between the lines and kind of let your grimdark head cannon go down the rabbit hole of how truly brutalized he had been. Good job for doing this video. CHEERS
Yo, Majorkill, thanks for introducing CrossFire: Legion. Just bought and downloaded it. Playing the campaign and having a blast so far. Really a nostalgic RTS game. Most commands and shortcut keys are still there, so learning the game was easy. Cheers!
Baldermort did a good story on Angron in his Primarch video. It gave a good take on why the Emperor abducted Angron and left his army to be slaughtered
One thing that I thought about as you were talking about him having the nails implanted in his legion. If his "primarch power" really was empathy, then that was the ultimate perversion of it. Empathy is the ability to understand how other people are feeling, put yourself in their shoes. Instead, he made everyone else feel like him.
Sanguinius: “I fight next to my brother Angron, and he’s a fine boy and all, and I don’t want you to take this the wrong way… But, he wants to kick my butt!” Angron: “Dad, what’re you doin’?” The Emperor: “Uh…! Nothing! Son!” Angron: “What did I tell ya about talkin’ to strangers?” The Emperor: “Now, he wants to kick MY BUTT!” Sanguinius: “WHAAAAAH!”
It took Fabius a huge amount of time and luck to accidentally have made a perfect clone of Fulgrim. So if the best cloner in the galaxy at the time didn't even know how he did it, what were the chances The Emperor or his Custodes knew as well?
@@electricfeverx976 Very true but Fabius was working with the blood of all the primarchs, the Emperor created them and had Angron him self, he could have taken him away like he did with Vulkan.
@@dansmith4394 not exactly, The Emperor had a hand in making them but that mostly involved using his DNA as their base. Most of the work to genetically engineer and design them fell to Urda as she was better than the Emperor in that task.
His tragic story reminds me of the Turin Turambar's story. Whatever he did he could not make it right. A noble man beaten up by a curse and ill circumstances that death was a bliss for him.
I believe, that if the eldar hadnt fucked angron over, he would probably have become one of the very best primarchs, on par with sanguinius and horus in chad-broness
Well dang. Angron’s story is actually really tragic. Whilst still sucky I have a new found respect for Angron. As a relative outsider to 40k (cos I’ve never bought a figureine let alone played a tabletop game but has binge watched Majorkill and Luetin many times now), I think Angron is a very tragic character indeed. From being hella unlucky in his upbringing to his treatment at the hands of Big E, it sure would suck to be Angron.
Yup this is exactly what had been bugging me for ages about our lore telling friend here, I'm really happy to see Angron's tragedy acknowledged *He's still a bad primarch but for valid reasons
I remember reading a theory on why the emperor did what he did to angron, something along the lines of making angron hate him so he could buy time to find a cure for the nails before they could kill him. So he gave him something to throw all his anger at.
Angron is by FAR my favorite character. The backstory in my opinion. An underdog that literally fought his entire life. Hates slaves and goes fucking berserk. I should note that I fucking HATE the imperium and they are my least favorite in all of Warhammer. It pleases me to think that this guy who has been through so much can now endlessly massacre humanity. Because it’s what they deserve.
Being able to admit mistakes is a quality few people have, and thanks to you I also changed my mind about Angron's character. I never thought I would be able to think that Angron of all the Primarchs would be a cool character. Thank you for this amazing video, my dude. 👍
To be clear, Angron still sucks, but his suckiness is the result of an intricate and engaging story of tragedy. So that makes him unsuck.
Something that doesn't suck is Crossfire : Legion. A blend of all your classic RTS favs from your childhood : wehy.pe/y/3/Majorkill
Succ : www.patreon.com/majorkill
But still suck? Makes sense
The smoothest transition ever~
+Majorkill What happened to the warp god within Angron when they performed the surgery? Did it change as his body did or was it driven out of his body?
Random comment:
John French (one of the Warhammer authors)
Recently confirmed that Alpharius is 100% dead.
Hey bro i have definitely fallen in love with your content you are absolutely hilarious i just have one question what is the email I should be sending my proof of purchase of the plushie to??
Angron is more aware than you would think. His conversation with Russ was one of the best parts of the Heresy - "You are free, Leman Russ of Fenris, because your freedom matches the Emperor’s will. For each time I wage war against worlds that threaten the Imperium’s advance, there comes another time when I am told to conquer peaceful worlds that wish only to be left alone. I am told to destroy whole civilisations and call it liberation. I am told to demand millions of men and women from these new worlds, to make them take up arms in the Emperor’s hordes, and I am told to call this a tithe, or recruitment, because we are too scared of the truth. We refuse to call it slavery."
"We refuse to call it slavery"
Holy shit that's a powerful line
he's not wrong
Damn that's what I call a quote. He is entirely right
@@PodreyJenkin138 wait wait wait. You’re not actually serious are you? You don’t think there’s any other way? You can’t be serious right?
@@PodreyJenkin138 It's called 'conscription', which has never been a popular thing anywhere at any point in history. Especially from people who just conquered your planet, butchered a solid number of people you once knew and overthrew the local ruler which may or may not have been a good thing.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Primarch Angron the Red Angel? I thought not. It's not a story the Loyalists would tell you. It's a Chaos legend.
Nice reference
2 of my favourite things... love it
Thank you for making this reference.
Amazing just amazing
@@lilpretzel5629 what is it refrencing
Angron: “Father I want to save my gladiator brothers and sisters!”
The Emperor: “ok”
*good ending*
Eldar Farseer: "So if he ever gets the Butcher's Nails implanted in him, he's totally gonna fall to Khorne and be a monster, but if he doesn't he's gonna be bro tier, and his dad will eventually kill She Who Thirsts for us, so let's make sure he doesn't get caught by the High Riders."
Best Ending.
Angron: I refuse to fight him.
"OK, bring out someone else!"
Not too bad ending
Would be pretty comedic if Big E said no to Angron due to killing a Custodes right before him and that was Angron's punishment.
Oh and here are some world eaters why don't you take them back down with you and use them to conquer the planet. Let me know when you're done and we'll come get you OK. Have fun!
*everyone happy*
If it weren't for the Eldar attempting to ambush kid Angron out of fear he becomes Khorne's champion from their visions, he wouldn't have been injured enough to be captured by Nucerian slavers and end up having the Butcher's Nails on his head in the first place.
In short, the blame lies on the Eldar's tendency to commit Self-Fulfilled Prophecy.
Yet another of the Eldar's failings as a species. It's no wonder they're almost extinct.
You could blame the eldar for about everything
the eldar are those rich snobby kids who finally got what they deserved then they just kept doing things that caused them to keep getting what they deserve
@@alphariusomegon3965 from my knowledge (so far) they basically caused the fall of two Primarchs, Fulgrim and Angron. Fulgrim by banging Slaanesh into existence and Angron by thinking they can do everything.
The Eldar are the only race that are a bigger failure than Lorgar and Angron.
Angron is like watching a beaten and abused dog running at a small child snarling its head off. Logically AND emotionally it's very easy to understand it ain't the dogs fault. It doesn't deserve this, doesn't deserve the pain, the shit life, the world teaching it to be this way. poor sad little creature.
but you still have to put it down as fast as possible because look what it's about to do.
That's one of the best descriptions I've ever heard wow
Fantastic description.
We dont have to hate mad dogs, but we do have to destroy him
Spot on
Angron a Jack Russell Terrier confirmed
I never really liked Angron. But the more I learn about him, the more of a truly tragic figure he really is. More so than the other Primarchs, the Emperor really did Angron wrong. Any other choice could have had him as an ally. Adeptus Ridiculous did a really good discussion about him that makes him a tragic character.
His origin book even implies the Emperor designed him to be the Heart of the Primarchs. As a child he was extremely caring and empathetic and had the power to take in peoples fears and nightmares so the other fighters could have a peaceful sleep. When E finally found him he was shocked to see what the planet had turned him into because he was never supposed to be what he became.
basically he was originaly a second Vulkan with probable heal powers, true tragedy
FUCK YOU LORGAR !!!
And Erda, don’t forget Erda.
Out of all the traitor primarchs angron was the most sympathetic.
@@robertnelson9599 we do NOT talk about that mistake! 👎
The best part about killing that Custodes is fact that the custodes was fully armored but Angron ripped him in half with his bare hands.
God damn
It really shows how primarchs (even a weakened one like angron) are just on another level.
“I’m not one of those belt weight panzies I can break a custodian in two”-Angron
Angron is strong enough to prevent a titan foot from crushing him and Logar!
@@michaelhunt3332 I meany weakened like just been forcefully kidnapped and without a weapon or armour and injured. All this and he still killed a custode
‘He howled?’ asked Lorgar. His eyes were wide, pearly with soft wonder.
‘The call to retreat,’ Angron replied. ‘A fighting retreat - it took longer than you can imagine for the World Eaters to realise the battle was over. I had whole companies still trying to fight the Wolves as Russ’s Legion ran for their gunships.’ He chuckled. ‘They took a lot of trophies for their tallies. Many wear them still.’
For several moments, Lorgar had to watch his brother’s flawed face to make sure this wasn’t some elaborate jest.
‘You didn’t answer Russ’s question,’ he said. ‘Did you truly learn nothing from that fight?’
Angron blinked, the dull edge of surprise coming into his eyes. ‘What revelation should I have come to? I learned he wasn’t allowed to kill me. I learned he postured in the hope of bringing me back to Terra, collared and submissive to his whims.’
‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief. ‘No, no, no. Angron, you stubborn fool. None of that matters.’
‘There were more dead Wolves on that field than dead World Eaters. That matters.’
That, thought Lorgar, was also arguable, but he let it pass. ‘Russ had you cold. You said you had him at your mercy, but he crawled free.’
‘He crawled.’ Angron chuckled again, making a meal of the word.
‘And when he rose, he had you surrounded. He could have killed you.’
‘He tried and failed.’
‘His men, Angron. His Legion could have killed you. Whether the Emperor ordered it or not, Russ spared your life. He didn’t retreat in shame, you arrogant…’ Lorgar sighed. ‘He was probably lamenting your thick skull all the way back to Terra, hoping you’d heed a rather consummate lesson in brotherhood and loyalty. Look what happened. Yes, you beat him in a duel. Yes, your men took down more of his than his of yours. And yet, who won the battle?’
‘The World Eaters,’ Angron said without hesitation.
Lorgar just stared at him for several seconds. ‘I appreciate that every living being must, by the nature of perception, understand and process life in a different way. But even for you, brother, this is achingly obtuse.’
‘You’re saying the Wolves won.’ Angron looked more amused than confused.
‘How can you not see it?’ Lorgar steepled his fingers, trying to rein in his own temper. ‘They won a victory worthy of engraving on their armour for all time. While you were glorying in your strength, Russ’s sons were loyal enough to come to him, to surround you both, to threaten your life while you stood at the vanguard of your own Legion. That may be the most comprehensive moment of outmanoeuvring in the history of the Legiones Astartes. It’s almost poetic in its elegance and emotional resonance. He proves his sons’ loyalty, while yours leave you to die. He proves the damage the Nails are doing to your Legion. He proves the tactical strength of taking an objective rather than fighting purely to kill. He spares your life in the hope you’ll see all of this, in a lesson it cost him heavily to teach you, and your reaction is to grin and claim yourself the victor.’
Angron didn’t chuckle that time. Lorgar could see it in his brother’s tensed muscles - some cognitive switch had clicked somewhere in his consciousness, and Angron’s rage was rising again.
‘Only one of us ran away that night. He’s weak.’
‘Gods’ blood.’ Lorgar was still managing, barely, to speak calmly. ‘The primarchs are the bridge between the Emperor and the species he leads. We are all weak, for we are all equal. All of us. We are humanity magnified: its virtues and its flaws.’
‘I am not weak. I have never been weak.’
‘You are not only weak if you fail to understand Russ’s lesson, you are also a fool.’
Beautiful bit of writing that
Love it, I love how Angron is characterised sometimes
Yeah turns out crude brain implantation makes you pretty dumb. Surprised he can even speak
You know people give Russ a lot of shit for the night of the wolf but I find it Ironic that Russ was the only brother that cared enough about Angron to try and help him without any ulterior motive.
That's just sad ;-;
Should have brought up the fact that his last rage before ascension was caused by Guilliman smashing the skulls of his lost gladiator brethren because he thought they were trophies.
Is it mentioned Guilliman thought they were trophies? I always assumed he did it out of spite, since the traitors already massacred entire planets and all that.
That, plus once Lorgar started the ritual it stole a second killing blow from Angron. He had Russ and Girlyman both dead to rights, and both times they skirted out of it. So that mixed with some of his "family's" remains being crushed really got him deep into that Khorne goodness
@@charleseaton2085 lol so angron was gonna kill them???
kill who? if its the gladiators your talking about, he took the skulls for sentimental and obvious reasons. he didn't kill them or plan to, although the big E basically killed the gladiators inderectly but directly by leaving them leaderless and hopeless
Why I've been craving to see a uncorrupted clone of Angron without the butchers nails in his head. Can you imagine Guiliman hearing that something like his brother was spotted on some backwater agri world only to find Angron chilling in a hammock after having escaped the cloning vats or some such.
Lile Clone Fulgrim, Guilli would be like "WTF?" Is this a trick from Abbadon or something?
An uncorrupted angron clone would be the dopest shit they could do imo
@@stefvanroey8191 second Vulkan
That would be amazing and Angron would be more pissed to see a version of him that isn’t tortured.
Dude this sounds like some badass headcannon. Games workshop could have their cake and eat it too. Have him swear off of warfare entirely and go into exile because he has his empathic powers. It'd be like the spear that Big E gave to Russ but Angron wouldn't have the option to put it down. It could be like the Butchers Nails in reverse.
eldar: we can’t let him become the demon prince of khorne.
eldar: *weakens him*
angron: *become slave, get butchers nails and now a demon prince of khorne.*
eldar: wait this wasn’t supposed to happen.
Too late.....
That backfired
literally all they had to do was not jump a child
@@wesspect It's embarrassing that the Eldar got their butts whooped by a kid Primarch.
I like how lograr turned angron into a demon primarch. As much as it is a complete tragedy he basically wanted to save one of the few people close to him, and in his own sick way, he did
I didn't even think about it that way but yea, your completely right
Oh fuck, that's true.
Brotherly love expressed in the worse possible way, Lorgar you fool.
@@hisokamorow6709 And your know what's worse? Khorne made Angrons pain 10 times worse, for that is where his rage comes from, pain.
More like doomed him to eternal slavery to Khorne masked as “helping” him ascend to daemonhood.
I thought lorgar was just using Angron as a tool for the heresy/chaos, masquerading it as ‘saving’ his ‘friend’
This is why I love the World Eaters, especially Khârn and Angron. They weren’t blood thirsty maniacs to begin with, but instead became that way as a “fuck you” to Big E.
Yeah, fuck humans being able to survive genocide against half a dozen other species. Gotta fight the guy trying to bring the Galaxy to peace
And the eldar to some extent
The Eldar never realized that their paranoia and reckless action was just a piece towards one of 40k’s many tragic domino effects. They never thought that it was their ambush that served as a key to the prophecy’s fruition.
That's the Eldar for you. A Farseer could come with a prophecy that the eggs will be burnt if they wait to long to lift it and they'd just crank the heat up to speed up the process, unknowingly burning the eggs they were trying to save.
Unfortunately this is a result of GW's obsession with the "dying race" trope which means the Eldar have to always lose and be handed the idiot ball, but somehow still have enough people and warriors to keep fighting and be jobbers for 10k years.
It's worth pointing out that we don't know what the prophesy was.For all we know a loyalist Angron/World Eaters might have done more damage to the Eldar than their Chaos counterparts.
@@nickathanas1898 And that does not, in ANY way, help the Eldar's case.
@@oceanberserker it does help them. It's well known that they would rather see the whole of mankind burn if it can save à single one of their people. They would rather see the galaxy burn for 10k years than have humanity rise and finish them.
Can't recall if this is true or if I remembering something else, but during the great crusade, Angron took a ship and fucked off alone to some random uninhabited world and basically just wanted to be left alone and die only for kharn to to convibce him to get back in the fight. If true it paints his situation as more tragic and depressing since even then he still wanted just to be left alone and get some personal peace only to be dragged back into more war.
On the wiki they mentioned it, it took two years for Khârn to find him on a feral world living like a savage and looking for something that could kill him.
Add to that Kharn's contemplations on Angron.
He told Argel Tal and Garviel Loken that him and the World Eaters agreed to the Butcher's Nails and did all they did, despite knowing this would ruin them, only to feel kinship to Angron.
They saw all the other legions get demigods they looked upon with awe. They got Angron the Broken.
With all the resentment he felt for them, they could not let him go. Only after too many of them were past caring, and were just hateful, rage-filled bastards like him, did they start hating him - mostly cuz hate is all they had left at that point.
Book is Angron, Slave of Nuceria and it goes over the rebellion the world eaters had against the Butchers Nails too
I read somewhere that Angron was meant to be the perfect guard dog. Letting children ride on his back one moment, and ripping out the throats of his master's enemies the next.
So like a pitbull that was abused and used for dogfighting compared to how they are normally.
He was supposed to be like a second Vulkan yeah. A brother the other Primarchs could go to for some emotional support, advice, and unjudging understanding
@@ironduke5058 Yeah out of all the primarchs (except maybe Vulkan) he seemed to be the most human as empathy was his power, they could also make him a renegade Primarch after seeing all the horrors the emperor committed, not seeing the bigger picture since he focused only on the pain he inflicted
@@alan0004 That's actually an amazing concept
Basically like hitting a Great Dane and not expecting it to rip off your face
Angron hadn't succeeded in conquering his planet YET. But Nurcia had loads of dark age technology, like the nails, and other goodies, that made the overlords of that world particularly difficult to shift. How much of an accomplishment was it for the other Primarchs, to rise to the top of their feral / feudal worlds? In fact, it's kind of interesting that the most troubled primarchs were the ones who landed on planets of higher tech levels that both seriously challenged them, and revealed the dark nature of humanity.
In fact, the reason why the emperor left Angron's followers to die was because he had made an arrangement with the leaders of the planet. This shows that even the emperor consider them a powerful force, better dealt with trough diplomacy than trough the force of arms.
It’s also worth mentioning that the other primarchs weren’t *literally* mentally handicapped by brain implants that made them feel perpetual agony.
@@ArgentumFox
I highly doubt that the Nurcerians were that much of a threat to the Imperium by the time the Emperor found Angron.
And I would've thought that big E would've wanted to wipe them out for irreversibly damaging one of his primarchs.
Because even if you believe that the primarchs were nothing but tools to the Emperor, they were very important tools and having some uppity mortals all but completely break one should've made him extremely angry to say the least.
My theory is worse. What if Angron was meant as a poison pill for Khorne? If you were the emperor, implied to know half the primarchs would turn against you, wouldn’t you try to give chaos primarchs that would hinder it? And what better to hinder Khorne then a Empathic healer forced into the berserker role. Now look at what Angron actually did after becoming a daemon: He does nothing but fail. Angron was a sacrifice by the emperor to prevent someone like Russ or Sanguinius falling to Khorne and becoming an unstoppable champion of Khorne.
Wait… this couldn’t possibly be the (canon) case. It kinda makes sense & GW simply wouldn’t allow that.
Plausible. The Emperor is always playing 3D chess. He knew half the Primarchs were going to fall to Chaos. Might as well sabotage the ones that fall so it undermines the Chaos Gods.
Mortarian has daddy issues; this applies not only to his Necromancer adopted dad and Big E, but Nurgle as well. His innate resentment of authority figures compels him to act contrary to their designs. Compared to Typhus, Mortarian hasn't really accomplished much for Grandpa. I think there's even conversations he has with other Primarchs revealing how reluctant he was to even join Chaos. Then, to top it off, he's surrounded by the thing he hates; psychers or - more generally - the source of all psychic power, the Warp. Yeah, not exactly a cheerleader for Chaos.
Lorgar has spent the last 10,000 years hiding in his tower from Corvus. He never wanted to be a warrior in the first place. 'Nuff said.
Fulgrim is so self-absorbed to the point of being ineffectual in any major way. Granted, Big E was taken by surprise by Fulgrim's betrayal (that whole switcheroo pulled by Cegorach with Jagatai and Fulgrim). Even so, what has Fulgrim really accomplished aside getting nuked by Rylanor (a psychological insult he still hasn't - and likely never will - recover from)? Not much.
Perturabo, the petulant man-boy, is so fed up with the other traitors he doesn't even want anything to do with them. No cooperation, no coordination of effort. Even though that's exactly what he advocates for, he's given up on it because (1) Chaos gonna Chaos; coordinated effort ain't their strong suit and (2) he doesn't take losses well, resorting to pouting and sulking in isolation. He spanked Rogal in the Iron Cage, patted himself on the back over the "win", retreated into the Warp, and called it a day.
Magnus. Ah, poor Magnus. The try-hard who wants to be respected as one of the cool kids but just can't overcome his nerdish tendencies. Tzeentch, I imagine, gets quite the kick out of manipulating Magnus' insecurities, watching him endlessly chase his own tail in circles, within circles, within circles. Magnus pretty much gets stomped out every time he shows up in the materium. Which then eats him alive inside as he fails once again.
All-in-all Chaos got a bum deal. The traitor Primarchs are pretty much all losers and/or their heart just ain't in it.
Sanguinius as Khorne champion...now that is something scary even to thing about it.
Geez, i don't think he's....THAT shit a father? Maybe?
Damn, this really hits home with the story where Horus laments how all the traitor legions at his command are the broken ones. If he could have had Guilliman, Russ, or Dorn at his side, he would be unstoppable. But no, he can barely control the broken legions. Angron's murderous need to stop at every planet to drown it in blood slowed his path to Terra. Fulgrim became completely unreliable. Lorgar was obsessed with worshiping Chaos gods. Curze he never got much out of for his own benefit...
When I learned about Angron's back story I was both saddened and pissed the hell off at how much shit Angron had been put through.
I like that he basically tells guiliman that he knows nothing of honor he really put him in his place
I mean neither does Angron.
And guilliman's response on that also pack a punch
@@johndewey6405 Calling Angron a slave is like calling a crippled person a legless fucker and call that an argument.
@@kellerblair2952 arguable but all opinions here
@@kellerblair2952 Angron does pretend to be honorable
3:25 If the Eldar hadn't attacked Angron, he would have gone to the route that of his Roboutian Heresy counterpart who managed to evade the Nucerian slavers, dodged the nails and later successfully liberated Nuceria from the High Riders before Big E arrived.
So once again it's the Eldar's fault that the galaxy is fucked over. I mean think about it, he could've used his empath abilities on the traitor primarchs and there would be no Heresy to begin with. I would even go as far as to say that not even Lorgar would've turned traitor, he would still resent Big E for Monarchia yes, but would probably not side with chaos.
@@morgothable it truly was a loss that we never saw what his other abilities were. Maybe he could've calmed Lorgar after his scolding by the Big E, or even made Magnus understand why the Big E never wanted him to study the warp.
@@NathanMarcusSPhua Ah yes, attempting to assassinate Angron is actually what led to Lorgar's humiliation and the total destruction of his entire worldview because the Emperor was an inhuman asshole and militant atheist... in fact, the Eldar made the Emperor into a militant atheist in the first place! And took away his humanity! And they also were the ones who made Magnus so narcissistic so he'd fall the Tzeentch. It's also totally the Eldar's fault that Konrad had horrible visions and was so fucked up psychologically. It is also the Eldar's fault Mortarion and his Legion were subjected to Nurgle's plagues.
Lmao
@@iamdream2562 no, I meant if Angron didn't lose his powers of taking people's suffering away from them, he could've used it on the primarchs that would've turned traitor.
make me wounder what would have happened if the Eldar rise angron
Tonite On Major Gear: Hammond goes toe to toe with Angron, James organises the Butchers nails and Jeremy presses the Teleport to ship button, pissing off Angron even more
And yes the stig won
@@inquisitorkryptman7893 always lol
Why did I instantly think of that in HIS voice
In the book: Scions of the Emperor, short story: "the chamber at the end of memory". Survey crews dug a little too deep and inadvertently triggered some psychic wards put in place by Malcador to protect the tomb of lost primarchs. When Rogal Dorn arrived he recognized something familiar to the architecture, a sensation. His thoughts pulls him towards the memories of his "lost" brothers, but unable to recall the specifics of what they did. Then Malcador arrives, from nowhere. It would later be reveled that Malcador had locked away Dorns memories of his brothers, after his request. Dorn did not believe him, so Malacdor unlocked those memories - and dorn understood, that if they were here the war would already have been lost.
And that's why the 2 lost primarchs are one of my favorites as far as 40k lore is concerned.
I mean at my core I'm a secret seeker, so I want to know what they were, why they were erased from history, what was their crime, how powerful they were or could've been, if Dorn says something like that.
@@AZIONG651 well if the space wolves and dark angels had to go in, get their ass kicked and had to get back up the imperium would have gotten fucked hard if they were still here
I feel like making him a mindless berserker in the end, while tragic and undoubtedly grimdark, is a missed opportunity cause lucid Angron could have been a great foil to the surviving loyalist Primarchs.
I have trouble believing the highly noble, honorable, and empathetic Angron without nails would have ever gone chaos. He’s be more bro tier than Sangiunius and Vulkan
"You ravage worlds of men, and annihilate their children and cultures unless they bend the knee to you. You claim to be for the future of Humanity, FATHER, but it's a future beneath your boot and guided by your whip! You might have a vision for humanity, but you have NONE yourself!
My Nucerians fought for their Freedom, and my Legion will be the Chain-breakers against your rule! You craft a future where you rule over humanity, my future is a future where Humanity decides, TYRANT!"
Angron, Primarch of the LEGIO XII "Chainbreakers", at the onset of the Angronian Apostasy.
"WE DIE STANDING AND WE DIE FREE!" ~ Warcry of the Chainbreakers Legion.
Like Konrad, yes. Lucid Angron would have been one of the best Primarchs
He spared the gladiators who FOUGHT WELL. Not 'had kids' or such reasons - no, the ones who fought well. That's Khorne, before the nails. Not necessarily traitor legion level of Khorne, but.. not all that angelic. But those nails... that's just a bad idea all around.
Here’s the thing though, the Angron who became the Deamon Prince was already severely severed from the warp entity that he drew his power from, so in essence, that primarch was already mostly “dead” and just a powerful being. When the Chaos Gods turn a primarch into a deamon prince they are expelling the warp entities that were connected to that primarch and filling that empty, very very powerful body, with their own essence. I’m my head cannon and mind, the primarchs were incredibly enhanced living bodies that you could capture and stuff a warp entity into as a soul. A human body can take a very small soul, a primarch body can take a (minor) warp god as a soul. The emperor created perfect bodies and made a deal with the chaos gods to give him the old minor gods that they had eaten to use them as souls for the primarch bodies he was creating. The deal that the emperor had broken was his end of the bargain that he would also create primarch like bodies for the gods themselves to inhabit. Just like the chaos gods have extensions of themselves represented as minor and greater daemons, the space marines are the same thing for the primarchs but in a physical form. When they are turned into a primarch, their souls are infused with that of their primarchs and they become an extension of them.
Dante: I understand your desire to die even if I do not agree with your methods, uncle
Angie: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Ya angron has a tragic story I still don’t like him but I do feel he’s the only primarch who would have a legit reason to betray the emperor out of all the traitors
Personally I feel Perturabo was pretty justified ngl
@@scottberry1073 what was his reason actually I don’t know much about him other then he was atheist and killed his sister and everyone on his planet then joined Horus
I actually like Lorgars reason as well.
My sympathy for lorgar only evaporated when he saw what he did to arghul tal and the gal vorbak.
It is literally said that he saw what he had done to them but didn't change his ways even though he was one of the most compassionate primarchs next to sanguinius and vulkan.
The initial reason for seaking out a new belief to put all the wars behind him was solid imo. Especially after the emperor did not just humiliate him but the entire word bearer legion in front of his eyes basically psycker torturing his son's into submission.
Lorgar was also done dirty imo.
Curferon and erebos are my most hated and loathed characters in the setting tbh.
@@PuddingXXL lorgar was a weakling and nothing more, he willingly limited himself to the worshiping of gods that he had no need to. He failed the moment he put his destiny into the hands of being that do not exist, then desperately try to seek out the gods of chaos only to prove a truth that is flawed in every aspects.
@@thecommentguy9380 You can't forget that he was majorly corrupted and influenced by his step dad.
Remember it was curferon who made him a religious fanatic basically.
Also lorgar always said that he hated war and suffering. He was one of the only primarchs who thought about what would happen after the crusade and that he wanted to be a poet and statesmen. He hated being seen as a tool for conquest and war when his abilities were mostly directed towards statesmen ship and governance even more so then guilliman.
I agree that it was a weak will to immediatly go look for another God but that is in part fault to Magnus who could have told him of the great dangers in the warp. Instead Magnus exploded his home and basically did the Big E version of "Just trust me bro" even though Magnus knew of lorgars psychological state and even saw the corrupting influence of curferon.
Lorgar had a similar tragic story to that of angron but instead of slavers implanting nails it was the Big E who did the same just on a soul level for lorgar.
Big E also should have known that lorgar was influenced by outside forces (erebus and curferon) so it's not entirely his fault tbh.
6:46 Or Big E should have unleashed the World Eaters Legion to aid Angron and fight side by side with their Primarch to destroy the High Riders and claim Nuceria for the Imperium.
The Emperor not having a truly valid reason to spare Nuceria's oligarchy is a major plot hole. It's left to the reader's imagination. I guess they had very valuable knowledge/technology and submitted before the imperial fleet's arrival. I also guess the Emperor had no great plan for Angron and his legion and was only interested in using them while they were still functional, before erasing them all.
Nuceria was part of Ultramar. It was already compliant
@@t.m.t3215 Which doesn't speak well to Big - E's thought process or character. I don't care how many shinies the Shit - Riders had to offer, Big - E could've just outright conquered the planet and taken them all anyway. Considering the full out depravity of the Shit Riders, he would've been more than justified in doing so and that would've easily won Angron to his side. The only thing that would've made it better and probably turned him into an outright fanatic for Big - E would be if he not only saved his buddies, but personally took to the field with Angron so they could conquer Nuceria together. Perfect father - son bonding moment and everybody wins! But no, E in all his inscrutable dickery chose THAT moment of all times to act like a damn troll. Fast forward to the Horus Heresy and Angron's basically saying 'That's right! Who's laughing now, old man!!! WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!!!!'
@@oceanberserker The Emperor at that point had lost all basic human empathy and could not bring himself to the level of minds different than his, nor did he care.
The fact that the custodes were the only beings he somehow felt good with is a massive red light about how far removed from humanity he now was.
He was only thinking in pros and cons: "XII is damaged beyond repair, it won't last long, I'm just gonna use it as long as it can function, then I will destroy it. I'm keeping that faithful asset (Nuceria) intact."
Which of course turned out to be a catastrophic mistake.
@@t.m.t3215 All the more reason that he (Big - E) was doomed to fail.
Your content is the only thing keeping me updated with 40k at this point, keep it up!
As tragic as Angron's backstory is, I think you could have made it FAR more tragic by not putting the nails in his head. He was an empath, designed to take to help ease the pain of the others. In the 40K Universe, there is simply too much pain to be eased, just from his brother's alone (nevermind the greater galaxy) especially dealing with the rejection Lorgar felt and the Agony Curze's visions caused him, the frustration of Pertarabo having to deal with the Hrud alone, and Magnus's betrayal after the sacking of Prospero and Big E. being the derelict dad he was just one day breaks Angron. That his joining of the heresy was the biggest shock, and made his brothers question if they weren't at least a bit justified at bringing their father down.
Then of course, Lorgar basically just somehow taps Angron into the pain of the galaxy that flows into the warp and that leads him to a path of rage. A rage that never stops, for he feels the pain he causes under Chaos and his own frustration further driving him along then path of every spiraling madness. That he wants to stop, but can't as the pain he know causes further feeds his anger, understanding that he, like the galaxy is broken and that no matter how much that tiny voice inside wants to stop, he knows he has long drowned in the sea of blood and fury that will only end when the cruel galaxy does.
So he’s screwed anyway:(
@@toheekang174 Yes, but he's screwed by the collective cruelty of the emperor's failure to raise his sons and the galaxy as a whole instead of his world's royalty and Big E cutting his losses. It's more tragic since in current lore, everyone knew the second the Hersey happened, how Angron would declare, however in this scenario, the empathetic Angron, who was always there for his brothers falling would shake even the loyalists to their core.
If angron didn’t have the nails their wouldn’t be a heresy because the primarchs would the support of angron which wouldn’t leave them vulnerable to corruption, lorgar wouldn’t have fallen to chaos if a nails free angron was there to support him in his hour of need
That goes for most traitor primarchs, with a supporting and loving brother like angron who’s always there for them and is able to take away their pain , chaos wouldn’t be able to even get close to corrupt any of the primarchs
i think he's a representation of "a what could have been" character. like being an empath could have fixed so many issues amoung the primarchs,
Vulkan may have been the Heart but Angron was born for that role. I imagine if things had been different Angron and Vulkan would have been good friends, Angrons legion could have even played a role in helping planets recover after a successful invasion given his empathetic abilities and that Primarch legions personalities closely resemble the Primarch themselves.
3:34 That mean Tzeentch was screwing the Eldar for trying to manipulate Fate, that he has control over, the whole time.
Imagine a timeline where Angron and Sanguinius were best mates, a pair of legendary honour-bound brothers loved and respected by their brothers. One can only dream.
So Horus wins the Heresy as Vulkan fell to Khorne's rage insteas
@@christiandauz3742 that's honestly terrifying
@@Stuffman1861
It's not coincidence HALF of the Living Primarchs and Legions fell to Chaos
@@Stuffman1861 Not really. Christian Dauz made it all up.
He is the equivalent of Matt Ward fanboying Chaos
Darth Majorkill: "Have you heard The Tragic Tale of Angron the Absolutely Livid Gladiator?"
Angron the Pissed sounds better
I thought not. It's not a story the slaves of the False Emperor would tell you
lol
*the hectic gladiator
Two Primarchs would be most deserving of a redemption arc: Angron and Magnus.
They were fucked over the most from the beginning.
Angron is actually one of my favorite Primarchs because of his backstory (I started my WH40K journey with the Horus Heresey books, so I got his backstory early on).
big e: hey leman, get magnus for me
leman: alright
*destroys prospero*
big e: bro wtf
Nope, Magnus was done in by his own arrogance. While the flesh changes were planted by Tzeentch, Magnus was still arrogant enough to think he could solve all the problems. While the Emperor did a shit job at warning the Primarchs about the dangers of the Warp and Chaos, Magnus was told time and again to stop f**king around with the Warp. But did he listen? No.
Angron is a tragic character. Makes you wish there could be a way to reverse all that has happened to him, but that just isn't who he is meant to be.
I want to write an alternative heresy where angron doesn't turn traitor. But unfortunately I'm not a good enough writer to do that lol
@@twinphalanx4465 Fanfiction isn't a bad place to start writing. If you got mates into Warhammer 40K you could write down the story and show it to them, get feedback and all that.
His story is awesome. Alpha legion is my favorite but Angron and the World Eaters have some of my favorite books and stories
Yeah Betrayer was one of my favourite HH books.
Betrayer 😌
Hydra Dominatus
@@ionnanskilliorus6877 mine as well but oh god do I hate alpharius due to that book lol.
@@PuddingXXL Betrayer was about Angron and Lorgar waging war in Ultramar, you might be thinking of Deliverance Lost when the Alpha Legion absolutely butt stuffed the Raven Guard and ruined their shot at rebuilding. Another on of my favorites for sure 👌🏽
Good job majorkill,your next step is sighing in the intro and using your puppy to emotionally manipulate your audience😃😃
Angron is still ass tho,just not as ass
Would you care to elaborate? im new to the channel and what you said is kinda curious.
@@hermys4178 it's a joke about TH-cam apology videos
Must admit, my view of Angron was very much influenced by your take, but having recently read The Betrayer novel from the Heresy I feel a lot more sympathy for him as a character. He is still the worst of the Primarchs, but the reasons for his shortfalls are explained really well in this book.
For me perturabo is the worst written primarch. Not one book where he appears makes his reasoning for betrayal solid. He is more so a whiny cry baby that was corrupted like a common guardsmen.
Perturabo is just poorly written in my eyes. Angron at least had a reason to slaughter an entire planet full of his sons while perturabos reasoning was "lol I spite dad"
Weird, angron is by far my favourite primarch
I don’t understand how Angron could be the worst when Lorgar is right there
Get in Slave of Nuceria, After Deshe'a, and The Butcher's Nails as well. Those with betrayer give you basically the full Angron run down from him landing on that shit hole of a planet, up to daemonhood at the end of Betrayer. It's depressing as fuck. I play World Eaters and got into them simply because of Kharn and the models. Thought Angron was basic as hell, then hit the lore and just felt genuinely bad for the dude. It's a lot like Frankenstein's monster, Angron effectively died in those pits, and the monster Big E found had been stitched together with a bad brain and only shown violence and hate.
@@orbitalbutt6757 blame curferon and erebus for lorgar
Just realized that the "every Primarch planet works for them" still applies to Angron. If it wearn't for the Eldar, then there was a world out there for Angron to pull towards the light, oppressed populations to fill with hope, and vicious tyrants for him to prove they are wrong in their ways. But again, the Eldar.
The eldar are basically the living example of the saying “one often meets fate on the road to avoid it” or something like that, by looking into a possible future and acting upon that limited knowledge , they wouldn’t have doom angron to be a Demon of khorne
Angorn was a broken man enslaved by monsters who took enjoyment of the suffering and bloodshed of others, and even with the Emperor aid he could never truly be healed by his help. Angorn is now a slave to perhaps a even worst monster in the form of Khorne who doesn’t truly likes him and would have preferred sanguinarius as his champion.
I'm not sure how much the Emperor tried to save him though. He kinda just seemed to keep screwing him.
@@ScooterinAB Irrc the emperor implied somewhere (not sure where) that he could actually remove the nails from angron, but just never did. The Emperor essentially gave angron evrey reason imaginable to fall to chaos.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 Pretty much, to one degree or another, pretty much all of the traitor primarchs had legitimate beef with Big - E, but out of all of them, Angron had the most reason to hate him.
The emperor condemned him. He didn’t save him.
@@ScooterinAB by the time they got him to Mars, removing the nails would've killed him. It was too late. But I think even with nails, if Big E had helped Angron on Nuceria then he would've been loyal until his death, seeing his father as more of a liberator and less of just another tyrant. The most depressing part of Angron's story is that he just wanted to be free, live and die with his brothers and sisters from the pit. Instead he remained a slave his entire life, Nuceria, the Emperor, Lorgar and Horus, then Khorne. He was even a slave to the nails, once they bit deep enough he would effectively black out, going into his murderous rage.
I thought Angron was low tier until I read Betrayer. After that it’s really hard to not have pity for him. The descriptions of the Butchers Nails is some of the most horrifying shit I’ve ever read. He fantasises about a simple moment of quiet the way Majorkill (and other individuals of high culture) fantasise about a sexy warhammer 40k themed cosplay Hooters, just big tiddy Eldar goth gfs bringing pints of beer to the table aka Heaven.
Another suggestion could we get a video about great warriors from loyalists legions from 30k ?
2:56 How utterly embarrassing for the Eldar to get rekt so hard by a baby Primarch
I honestly think it's just another example of BL's terrible writing when it comes to Eldar. I have no problem with Eldar losing to a Primarch lol, but how is it that an Eldar hit-squad, supposedly sent by a trained Farseer who probably would have had visions of Angron's sheer dangerousness, somehow wasn't equipped to take out a baby primarch? Yet somehow later on, after he's grown older and more powerful, and has healed from his injuries, Nuceria's masters could easily knock him out and implant the nails into him?
Nuceria did have advanced tech and soldiers monitoring young Angron
@@iamdream2562 nuceria has some old advanced tech like the nails so not surprising
One of the BL novels had an Eldar grav-tank getting taken out by a bunch of feral world kids throwing rocks into it's engines. The fuck man one of the most advanced war machines in the universe taken out by rocks!
They can see into the future and rip thoughts out of peoples minds, they use the webway and can strike as they wish and leave without any one any the wiser to it. In battle they should be terrifying. But not one novel properly conveys this, it's all fucking stupid as hell.
I’m glad you’ve finally come around Majorkill. I’ve always liked Angron and his legion even though there are times when he can be written better. I do hope that eventually the dead and chaos Primarchs can be revived.
I feel like it’s less the character Angron his self’s fault, and more the fault of GW’e writers not giving him a whole lot of good writing and stories. This is especially so in the post Heresy period, where Angron is just a big ol generic berserker demon and nothing more. 🙁
I love Angrons` story because it is so well written, but hate it because it is so fricking depressing. The man deserved better.
Humanity in a nutshell
Never let spiderman writers cook again forever
The short story about his final days with the gladiator rebels changed my opinion of him, particularly when he's got his arm around the young kid with them trying to keep him warm and alive. His story became so much more tragic when you realized how much he cared about them.
I love how it's hinted that angron is actually the red Angel mentioned in the book of demonicus where sanguinius is lured to a planet to make him fall to khorne.
It seemed kind of subtle how they hinted at the red wrathful Angel being Angron (although I know that it was actually a blood Angel psycker who became the red angel but still).
It all adds up for my head canon :D
Do you know what is the problem with all head cannons...99,9% of the time they have nothing to do with reality and what actually is true, just fan fiction in its finest.🤣
@@vencislavgynev8282 I agree completely. Not saying it's canon but I like to imagine it is.
It's also not that far fedged for myself since angron is truly named the red angel and is a substitute for sanguinius so it kind of makes sense canonically for myself.
The vision that the psycker blood Angel squad have of the red angel is also aligning with how angron is in the books. Pretty sure the wrath fire that engulfs the blood Angel psycker is also a manifestation of the demon or rather demonic energy that posses angron and turns him into a demon Prince.
There was some word bearers among the blood angels that also hint that horus and Erebus uses the now possessed and captured blood angel to ac5ually turn angron into a demon Prince when he gets almost killed.
But yeah you're obviously right it's not confirmed or anything nor is it even spelled out so it is nothing more then fan fic but it makes enough sense for me to be my head canon/personal fan fiction of what it represents.
That's why warhammer is so damn great because it's so vast and open that you truly make it your own in your head!
Not saying anyone has to believe what I regard as headcanon tho! Just thought it might be a nice idea to round of and bring some of the different books and lores together into an overarching picture. :)
i had a heart attack when i saw the title
then, the next title is: Lion IS not the best primarch, would absolutely kill us
@@sanzharkhairov501 gross the lion.
@@sanzharkhairov501 Lion is the most overrated primarch
@@sanzharkhairov501 I’d unsubscribe
I find mortarion to be overrated than the Lion
Let’s not forget the most raw quote from Angron said to Guilliman “‘Childish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.’ Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. ‘Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?’
Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. ‘And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?’
The two primarchs met again. Guilliman’s powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angron’s chainswords, but the World Eater’s strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angron’s lipless slit of a mouth.
‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.’”
Angron is the product of Big E's very superior and perfect parenting skills.
Emps: So, I could probably send my banana bois to help my son. Or do I troll him. Let’s do a little trolling.
(Emps post chair clarify)
Emps: Dang.
I think he works really well when viewed as the opposite of Sanguinius. He’s the virtuous who goes berserk, where the blood angels do the exact opposite. I just wish this was written more clearly in to the lore
There is also the fact that they are both called angels (which angron resents a lot) and Angron was also the closest fight Sanguinius had by far before super chaos juiced Horus
Oh shit, right on time for a lore vid.
Sad story, the potential he had, him plus Vulcan could have done so much
Maybe a "Traitors from Loyalist Legions" video?
-Luther and the Fallen Angels
-Alastor (Raven Guard)
-A small portion of the Iron Hands
-A portion of the White Scars
-Probably more I missed.
Glad to be here so soon, always hyped for a new vid!
It really is tragic what happened to him, maybe there is a way to bring him back that big E didn't tell anyone
Best case scenario, Big E realised he came for Angron too late and decided Angron should be the opposing side of the heresy, that would mean the traitors would get a handicapped/weakened Primarch instead of a useful one.
I'm of the opinion that the modifications done to the Butcher's Nails to work on Angron would have left him too brain damaged to function properly/at all if they were simply removed, and with the Crusade in full swing, the Emperor did not want to spend the time and resources necessary to work up a better solution. Especially if the theories that the primarchs would have been "Thunder Warrior'd" at the end of the Crusade are accurate.
Angron Thalkyr, the Anakin Skywalker of 30k/40k
Honestly, it's a pretty obvious take. Being an empath requires a degree of sensitivity, and if you've ever looked into the lives of poets renowned for that trait in their work, you'll find a lot of them are violent drunks.
They lacked introspection to understand the ideas fully.
This is why I really prefer the loyalist version of him in the other alternate heresies since the actual lore makes his story so aggravating. So many things could've changed when the emperor just helps him win and save Angron's brothers and sisters.
But he has to be the edgiest edgelord, because his character was written for 12 year old boys who are way too hard into metal. I'd love to see more attempts to make him not all of the worst parts of the 80s and 90s and make him an actually 3-dimensional character.
The Heresy was inevitable. Chaos winning is inevitable.
@@ScooterinAB how the hell would they do that though? It's literally said that by the time he was getting ready to die and all the butchers nails had already shredded the rest of his brain and becoming a demon of Khorne didn't help.
@@nootnoot9784 By having mad him a 3-dimentional character and not just a cringy edgelord. The Butcher's Nails could have been something akin to an adrenal modification to make pitfighting more interesting to watch. This makes him prone to surges of aggression (possibly even something that can be turned on like a Star Wars droid's restraining bolt) without making him a 1-diminesional character. Instead we got a character who was lobotomized into being nothing but rage and edge and black trench coats, and that's fucking stupid and the entire problem with his character. He wasn't meant to be anything other than "and this one's the stupid barbarian," but that's really dumb and boring. Making him not dumb and boring and a complete joke would make his character far more interesting. But no, we have a boob named Angron who's only notable detail is that he doesn't have a brain and hits things.
@@christiandauz3742 chaos can’t win they can kill everyone sure but then they will starve all it takes is the webway to fuck over chaos
The biggest tragedy is that when Angron was finally "rescued" by his father, the Emperor, his father did not help him. Instead of insuring the mental stability of his son, giving him counselling, and medical aid, Angron was thrown directly into war at the command of a legion of super humans. It shows how much of an arrogant idiot the Emperor was. And what he actually thought of others. If he would do this to his own son, what would he do to those who don't bear his genetic bloodline? The ultimate cause of the Horus Heresy was the Emperor's idiocy.
When you think the Emperor could've just gone down to the planet and fought back-to-back with Angron to help him. It would've basically turned him into the most loyal Primarch of all LOYALTY 4 LYFE style.
The reasoning why that doesn't happen falls into 2 different camps.
*Camp 1 - The Emperor is PROFOUNDLY flawed* I know, I know, heretical. But, we've seen heaps of evidence that The Emperor is incredibly arrogant, short-sighted, selfish and overall a "poor decision maker" when it comes to just about anything regarding his sons.
*Camp 2 - The Emperor planned the whole thing* I read that statement and immediatly my eyes glaze over, roll all the way over and I dryly smack my lips in sarcasm. It's such a cop-out of a writing tool to say "but it was the plan all along" for any story that is bizzare and convoluted _(lookin' at you bible)._ That being said, the more I read, the most this starts to make sense. When you look at conversation that Guilliman had with The Emperor post resurrection, G had essentially thrown in the towel and was ready to exile himself in disgust, but E managed to manipulate it _just_ right to give G the push he needed to go on a new crusade and rebuild the Imperium instead. _-Godblight_ It's entirely possible, that one of The Emperor's abilities, IS one of foresight. The Emperor has even said so Himself when speaking with Uriah, "I have seen the narrow path Humanity must walk." Perhaps he meant this literally rather than figurativly and much like Dr. Strange in Infinity War the Emperor 'looked at possible outcomes, and saw the one that would save humanity'. Perhaps, in order for that outcome to come to pass, a lot of shitty sacrifices need to happen.
I have a feeling that the writers initally started out with Camp 1, but now might be slowly low-key retconning it into Camp 2. In the end, who the fuck knows. GW have made it clear time and time again with cracking down on fan content that they don't give a flying fuck about their fans, they just want their money. So, they will milk this cow until there's blood in the milk.
"Just wanted to die." A lot of people who 'serve' the Emperor keep saying that.
And a lot of them are denied the chance to.
well nails in your brain will do that to you
Nobody wants to die...but everyone gets too,Richard B Riddick,escape from butcher bay
You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer.
I theorize that Angron's empath powers is what allowed him to defeat the eldar assasins. They are very emotional creatures and are often weak to certain psychic attacks. If they were dark eldar and he could remove suffering, then he could perhaps remove the residual suffering that is sustaining them.
Imagine if Angron had been allowed to fulfill his purpose of empath/moral anchor among the primarchs. May have lead to significantly less war crimes...
yeah well just eliminating the war crimes the world eaters committed would be a lot less war crimes.
Hearing all of this just makes me appreciate Angron so much more. Now I must get a squad of loyalist world eaters in honor of the poor guy
What if Angron never got attacked by the Eldar/ got the butchers nails?
That might be interesting
It was written in the Roboutian Heresy
I wonder if him being an empath made the butchers nails worse
It depends, either fucking with his brain broke and eliminated his powers or it created a feedback loop. Either way, it's a fucking travesty.
Being a powerful empath with butchers nails surrounded by 10,000 Marines that also have butchers nails...
I think he lost his abilities, cause if he couldn't handle his own, how can he handle those of 10k Marines?
The empathic abilities made being a gladiator even more hellish. In Slave of Nuceria, it talks about his first event, having to scale a pyramid with other gladiators while the arena slowly fills with acid. Anytime another gladiator fell in, Angron felt their pain as if it was his own before they fully died. At a certain point in the climb he had no choice left but to survive and knock some gladiators in himself, which again he felt as they hit the burning liquid.
Once the nails got put in, he was effectively lobotomized. No special primarch powers, no astartes felt the awe or reverence in his presence as they did other primarchs. There was only the nails; the pain engine singing and burning in his brain, and bloodshed which would get him as close to at peace as the nails would allow.
There's a really sad exchange between Kharn and Argel-tal in betrayer before they make planetfall. Argel-tal mentions to Kharn about how Angron doesn't feel like a primarch, in that instinctual way that all Astartes genetically react to primarchs. He then goes on about how they nails are killing the World Eaters. Kharn tells him that they were one of the last to find their primarch, the only legion who's primarch didn't conquer his homeworld, refused the emperor, was broken before he even made it back to his sons. That the legion viewed this as their shame to bear. That when Angron ordered the nails, the legion thought that by breaking themselves on the same anvil as Angron, it would help them feel close to their gene sire, to connect with him. At this point, Argel-tal simply asks "it didn't work?" to which Kharn can only reply "no"
Angron's Butcher nails being incompatible with his Posthuman biology comes to play on his plight
I remember hearing somewhere that Nuceria was somewhere inside the borders of Guilliman's growing empire...
Imagine how things could have gone had he (Guilliman) gone to see some new world added to his dominion and discovered his brother before the Emperor had?
Angron was always my second favorite primarch. Reading his books and the angron primarch story were very satisfying. I knew he was a character that you really had to read between the lines and kind of let your grimdark head cannon go down the rabbit hole of how truly brutalized he had been. Good job for doing this video. CHEERS
I think Angron purpose without the nails is there to heal the minds of his brothers, like Konrad and Perturabo.
Major Kill:”I give Angron a lot of smack…”
Angron smacks Major Kill’s head with his demon axe.
Love your content MajorKill
Thank you for your lore videos because they gave me ideas and inspiration for a story I'm writing so thank you
I think majorkill hit his head before making this
Yo, Majorkill, thanks for introducing CrossFire: Legion. Just bought and downloaded it. Playing the campaign and having a blast so far. Really a nostalgic RTS game. Most commands and shortcut keys are still there, so learning the game was easy. Cheers!
Baldermort did a good story on Angron in his Primarch video. It gave a good take on why the Emperor abducted Angron and left his army to be slaughtered
The Emperor takes the cake for worst father ever
Bloody love every single one of your videos
Same although he has a clear biase towards the loyalists
One thing that I thought about as you were talking about him having the nails implanted in his legion. If his "primarch power" really was empathy, then that was the ultimate perversion of it. Empathy is the ability to understand how other people are feeling, put yourself in their shoes. Instead, he made everyone else feel like him.
This is why you should never force your healer/support into a DPS role.
Sanguinius: “I fight next to my brother Angron, and he’s a fine boy and all, and I don’t want you to take this the wrong way… But, he wants to kick my butt!”
Angron: “Dad, what’re you doin’?”
The Emperor: “Uh…! Nothing! Son!”
Angron: “What did I tell ya about talkin’ to strangers?”
The Emperor: “Now, he wants to kick MY BUTT!”
Sanguinius: “WHAAAAAH!”
I always wondered why they didn't just clone Angron, but then who would have replaced him in the heresy on Horus's side.
It took Fabius a huge amount of time and luck to accidentally have made a perfect clone of Fulgrim. So if the best cloner in the galaxy at the time didn't even know how he did it, what were the chances The Emperor or his Custodes knew as well?
@@electricfeverx976 Very true but Fabius was working with the blood of all the primarchs, the Emperor created them and had Angron him self, he could have taken him away like he did with Vulkan.
Maybe Sanguinius?
@@dansmith4394 not exactly, The Emperor had a hand in making them but that mostly involved using his DNA as their base. Most of the work to genetically engineer and design them fell to Urda as she was better than the Emperor in that task.
His tragic story reminds me of the Turin Turambar's story. Whatever he did he could not make it right. A noble man beaten up by a curse and ill circumstances that death was a bliss for him.
I believe, that if the eldar hadnt fucked angron over, he would probably have become one of the very best primarchs, on par with sanguinius and horus in chad-broness
07:30 "Justifies" isn't a word I would use xD.
It's all because of those god forsaken space leaf lovers?
Well dang. Angron’s story is actually really tragic. Whilst still sucky I have a new found respect for Angron. As a relative outsider to 40k (cos I’ve never bought a figureine let alone played a tabletop game but has binge watched Majorkill and Luetin many times now), I think Angron is a very tragic character indeed.
From being hella unlucky in his upbringing to his treatment at the hands of Big E, it sure would suck to be Angron.
I was wondering when this vidio was coming.. There is so much lore for angron and he has a large and thought out character arch.
Yup this is exactly what had been bugging me for ages about our lore telling friend here, I'm really happy to see Angron's tragedy acknowledged
*He's still a bad primarch but for valid reasons
I remember reading a theory on why the emperor did what he did to angron, something along the lines of making angron hate him so he could buy time to find a cure for the nails before they could kill him. So he gave him something to throw all his anger at.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
I love how Angron came into Terra like Radahn
A video in Urda or Astarte.
Am I weird for wanting that?
Not at all
You like 40k, of course you’re weird.
@@stephenbarrett8861 Valid
Angron is by FAR my favorite character. The backstory in my opinion. An underdog that literally fought his entire life. Hates slaves and goes fucking berserk. I should note that I fucking HATE the imperium and they are my least favorite in all of Warhammer. It pleases me to think that this guy who has been through so much can now endlessly massacre humanity. Because it’s what they deserve.
Raven guard vid of some sort
Being able to admit mistakes is a quality few people have, and thanks to you I also changed my mind about Angron's character. I never thought I would be able to think that Angron of all the Primarchs would be a cool character. Thank you for this amazing video, my dude. 👍