I Was Wrong About Angron...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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I gave Angron alot of flack, but after more thinking I've uncovered the truth about the unluckiest dude in the galaxy
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To be clear, Angron still sucks, but his suckiness is the result of an intricate and engaging story of tragedy. So that makes him unsuck.
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But still suck? Makes sense
The smoothest transition ever~
+Majorkill What happened to the warp god within Angron when they performed the surgery? Did it change as his body did or was it driven out of his body?
Random comment:
John French (one of the Warhammer authors)
Recently confirmed that Alpharius is 100% dead.
Hey bro i have definitely fallen in love with your content you are absolutely hilarious i just have one question what is the email I should be sending my proof of purchase of the plushie to??
Angron is more aware than you would think. His conversation with Russ was one of the best parts of the Heresy - "You are free, Leman Russ of Fenris, because your freedom matches the Emperor’s will. For each time I wage war against worlds that threaten the Imperium’s advance, there comes another time when I am told to conquer peaceful worlds that wish only to be left alone. I am told to destroy whole civilisations and call it liberation. I am told to demand millions of men and women from these new worlds, to make them take up arms in the Emperor’s hordes, and I am told to call this a tithe, or recruitment, because we are too scared of the truth. We refuse to call it slavery."
"We refuse to call it slavery"
Holy shit that's a powerful line
he's not wrong
Damn that's what I call a quote. He is entirely right
@@PodreyJenkin138 wait wait wait. You’re not actually serious are you? You don’t think there’s any other way? You can’t be serious right?
@@PodreyJenkin138 It's called 'conscription', which has never been a popular thing anywhere at any point in history. Especially from people who just conquered your planet, butchered a solid number of people you once knew and overthrew the local ruler which may or may not have been a good thing.
Angron: “Father I want to save my gladiator brothers and sisters!”
The Emperor: “ok”
*good ending*
Eldar Farseer: "So if he ever gets the Butcher's Nails implanted in him, he's totally gonna fall to Khorne and be a monster, but if he doesn't he's gonna be bro tier, and his dad will eventually kill She Who Thirsts for us, so let's make sure he doesn't get caught by the High Riders."
Best Ending.
Angron: I refuse to fight him.
"OK, bring out someone else!"
Not too bad ending
Would be pretty comedic if Big E said no to Angron due to killing a Custodes right before him and that was Angron's punishment.
Oh and here are some world eaters why don't you take them back down with you and use them to conquer the planet. Let me know when you're done and we'll come get you OK. Have fun!
*everyone happy*
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Primarch Angron the Red Angel? I thought not. It's not a story the Loyalists would tell you. It's a Chaos legend.
Nice reference
2 of my favourite things... love it
Thank you for making this reference.
Amazing just amazing
@@lilpretzel5629 what is it refrencing
The Eldar never realized that their paranoia and reckless action was just a piece towards one of 40k’s many tragic domino effects. They never thought that it was their ambush that served as a key to the prophecy’s fruition.
That's the Eldar for you. A Farseer could come with a prophecy that the eggs will be burnt if they wait to long to lift it and they'd just crank the heat up to speed up the process, unknowingly burning the eggs they were trying to save.
Unfortunately this is a result of GW's obsession with the "dying race" trope which means the Eldar have to always lose and be handed the idiot ball, but somehow still have enough people and warriors to keep fighting and be jobbers for 10k years.
It's worth pointing out that we don't know what the prophesy was.For all we know a loyalist Angron/World Eaters might have done more damage to the Eldar than their Chaos counterparts.
@@nickathanas1898 And that does not, in ANY way, help the Eldar's case.
@@oceanberserker it does help them. It's well known that they would rather see the whole of mankind burn if it can save à single one of their people. They would rather see the galaxy burn for 10k years than have humanity rise and finish them.
My theory is worse. What if Angron was meant as a poison pill for Khorne? If you were the emperor, implied to know half the primarchs would turn against you, wouldn’t you try to give chaos primarchs that would hinder it? And what better to hinder Khorne then a Empathic healer forced into the berserker role. Now look at what Angron actually did after becoming a daemon: He does nothing but fail. Angron was a sacrifice by the emperor to prevent someone like Russ or Sanguinius falling to Khorne and becoming an unstoppable champion of Khorne.
Wait… this couldn’t possibly be the (canon) case. It kinda makes sense & GW simply wouldn’t allow that.
Plausible. The Emperor is always playing 3D chess. He knew half the Primarchs were going to fall to Chaos. Might as well sabotage the ones that fall so it undermines the Chaos Gods.
Mortarian has daddy issues; this applies not only to his Necromancer adopted dad and Big E, but Nurgle as well. His innate resentment of authority figures compels him to act contrary to their designs. Compared to Typhus, Mortarian hasn't really accomplished much for Grandpa. I think there's even conversations he has with other Primarchs revealing how reluctant he was to even join Chaos. Then, to top it off, he's surrounded by the thing he hates; psychers or - more generally - the source of all psychic power, the Warp. Yeah, not exactly a cheerleader for Chaos.
Lorgar has spent the last 10,000 years hiding in his tower from Corvus. He never wanted to be a warrior in the first place. 'Nuff said.
Fulgrim is so self-absorbed to the point of being ineffectual in any major way. Granted, Big E was taken by surprise by Fulgrim's betrayal (that whole switcheroo pulled by Cegorach with Jagatai and Fulgrim). Even so, what has Fulgrim really accomplished aside getting nuked by Rylanor (a psychological insult he still hasn't - and likely never will - recover from)? Not much.
Perturabo, the petulant man-boy, is so fed up with the other traitors he doesn't even want anything to do with them. No cooperation, no coordination of effort. Even though that's exactly what he advocates for, he's given up on it because (1) Chaos gonna Chaos; coordinated effort ain't their strong suit and (2) he doesn't take losses well, resorting to pouting and sulking in isolation. He spanked Rogal in the Iron Cage, patted himself on the back over the "win", retreated into the Warp, and called it a day.
Magnus. Ah, poor Magnus. The try-hard who wants to be respected as one of the cool kids but just can't overcome his nerdish tendencies. Tzeentch, I imagine, gets quite the kick out of manipulating Magnus' insecurities, watching him endlessly chase his own tail in circles, within circles, within circles. Magnus pretty much gets stomped out every time he shows up in the materium. Which then eats him alive inside as he fails once again.
All-in-all Chaos got a bum deal. The traitor Primarchs are pretty much all losers and/or their heart just ain't in it.
Sanguinius as Khorne champion...now that is something scary even to thing about it.
Geez, i don't think he's....THAT shit a father? Maybe?
Damn, this really hits home with the story where Horus laments how all the traitor legions at his command are the broken ones. If he could have had Guilliman, Russ, or Dorn at his side, he would be unstoppable. But no, he can barely control the broken legions. Angron's murderous need to stop at every planet to drown it in blood slowed his path to Terra. Fulgrim became completely unreliable. Lorgar was obsessed with worshiping Chaos gods. Curze he never got much out of for his own benefit...
I read somewhere that Angron was meant to be the perfect guard dog. Letting children ride on his back one moment, and ripping out the throats of his master's enemies the next.
So like a pitbull that was abused and used for dogfighting compared to how they are normally.
He was supposed to be like a second Vulkan yeah. A brother the other Primarchs could go to for some emotional support, advice, and unjudging understanding
@@ironduke5058 Yeah out of all the primarchs (except maybe Vulkan) he seemed to be the most human as empathy was his power, they could also make him a renegade Primarch after seeing all the horrors the emperor committed, not seeing the bigger picture since he focused only on the pain he inflicted
@@alan0004 That's actually an amazing concept
Basically like hitting a Great Dane and not expecting it to rip off your face
Good job majorkill,your next step is sighing in the intro and using your puppy to emotionally manipulate your audience😃😃
Angron is still ass tho,just not as ass
Would you care to elaborate? im new to the channel and what you said is kinda curious.
@@hermys4178 it's a joke about TH-cam apology videos
This is why I really prefer the loyalist version of him in the other alternate heresies since the actual lore makes his story so aggravating. So many things could've changed when the emperor just helps him win and save Angron's brothers and sisters.
But he has to be the edgiest edgelord, because his character was written for 12 year old boys who are way too hard into metal. I'd love to see more attempts to make him not all of the worst parts of the 80s and 90s and make him an actually 3-dimensional character.
The Heresy was inevitable. Chaos winning is inevitable.
@@ScooterinAB how the hell would they do that though? It's literally said that by the time he was getting ready to die and all the butchers nails had already shredded the rest of his brain and becoming a demon of Khorne didn't help.
@@nootnoot9784 By having mad him a 3-dimentional character and not just a cringy edgelord. The Butcher's Nails could have been something akin to an adrenal modification to make pitfighting more interesting to watch. This makes him prone to surges of aggression (possibly even something that can be turned on like a Star Wars droid's restraining bolt) without making him a 1-diminesional character. Instead we got a character who was lobotomized into being nothing but rage and edge and black trench coats, and that's fucking stupid and the entire problem with his character. He wasn't meant to be anything other than "and this one's the stupid barbarian," but that's really dumb and boring. Making him not dumb and boring and a complete joke would make his character far more interesting. But no, we have a boob named Angron who's only notable detail is that he doesn't have a brain and hits things.
@@christiandauz3742 chaos can’t win they can kill everyone sure but then they will starve all it takes is the webway to fuck over chaos
I remember hearing somewhere that Nuceria was somewhere inside the borders of Guilliman's growing empire...
Imagine how things could have gone had he (Guilliman) gone to see some new world added to his dominion and discovered his brother before the Emperor had?
His tragic story reminds me of the Turin Turambar's story. Whatever he did he could not make it right. A noble man beaten up by a curse and ill circumstances that death was a bliss for him.
Angron Thalkyr, the Anakin Skywalker of 30k/40k
You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer.
I was wondering when this vidio was coming.. There is so much lore for angron and he has a large and thought out character arch.
Yup this is exactly what had been bugging me for ages about our lore telling friend here, I'm really happy to see Angron's tragedy acknowledged
*He's still a bad primarch but for valid reasons
One of the things that's always stood out to me in the early HH novels was the battle of istvan V(?) Where the loyalists were consolidating after the bombardment and angron had landed, all of the world eater loyalists actively sought out to fight him, warning the the legions to avoid him, and going to their deaths themselves.
I think the book was galaxy in flames and it was istvan 3
My fan theory is that since Angron’s empath powers was reflected in his sons in the same fashion of other primarchs and their legions. Before, and even some time after the nails, the world eaters had a sense of brotherhood and love towards one another. This sense of love and admiration was reflected in their attempts to get their father to love them. Perhaps when the legion decided to take the butcher’s nails, they where tying to take their fathers pain away from him the same way Angron could take the pain from others.
Overall, I’m starting to like the world eaters more and more. They’re a tragic legion.
Angron is a great example of how you can do everything right And still lose.
I do wonder if the Emperor knew one of his sons would fall to Korne, better Angron than Sanguinius.
It’s funny to consider the really close possibility of Angron and Giliman having grown up together as brothers, considering they were both in Ultrama
As Leonidas once said to one of his exiled citizens after he betrayed him by showing the Persians the Goat patch....I'll hope you'll live forever.
great video, glad you're turning around on Angron
i think it would be cool if they made an Angron clone like they did with Fulgrim, even if he got killed off shortly after would just be neat to see a version of him without the nails and not corrupted
HIs scene at the end of the Betrayer novel is sooooo good when he goes back to the mountain where his people were killed and you see exactly why he turned traitor , an absolute tragedy. The world eaters would have been a dope loyalist legion
Wow! What an amazing and insightful video! One of your best videos yet!!!
Angron didn't run in to save Lorgar. He dug out to save him.
the part I hate the least was the emperor letting his gladiator friends die. Which you could easily fix by making the other gladiators Xenos tbh.
I hope his special sauce finds some way to comeback he could be a strong but not to overpowered alley for Gilly
(From a book fragment written by Konrad Curze, in the Blood Ravens' vaults)
"Angron. He was supposed to be the guy who meets with planets BEFORE I show up, having diplomatic dealings and understanding with humans who had issues with Dad's Imperium before my traveling freak show showed up to produce live-action horror vids starring the planet's citizens. Instead, he became the guy who the Golden God chose as an organic alternative to exterminatus. Those cyber dreads gave him a migraine that made him hate everyone and everything, and that went vice-versa. Top it off, Angron only made friendship with Lorgar because he had hair issues and wanted tips on how to appeal from his geeky bro rockin' the bald look and henna. Hence, my brother became a cyberdemon. Rip and tear."
Angron was supposed to be a Cleric sadly the butchers nails patch awarded him the Barbarian class.
I allways forget that this isn't common knowlege but pretty much all of Angrons actions were done in serach of a warriors death. And also that Angron was incredebly suicidal and depressed.
So many fans dont know/remeber this and just call Angron an idiot. Funny thing is that thats how his brothers treated him too
But Majorkill you need to cover every fact about Magnus the Red's glorious golden nipple horns
"I'm an empath, I can tell you're mad or something" -angron at one point
An Angron clone with his soul and mind intact would be dope
Its like he is in a personal Purgatory.
Never able to lose with his people by his side. And also never able to win anything meaningfull after this.
Just caged in andless war with no hope for an end to it. So his duty to his peers never ended - because of big E. and it is impossible now to end.
I don't know, man, this story seems to bleed from several holes. Baby Angron could defeat Eldar warriors, but teenage Angron couldn't escape his slave masters by killing mere humans? And they just cut parts of his brains out? Aren't Primarchs supposed to regenerate really quickly? Why didn't his brain just grow back?
I love baldermorts reasoning for why the emperor actions regarding angron. Essentially giving angron someone to hate that will keep him alive. I would definitely watch the video cause he describes it better then myself.
When it comes to elder prophecy, the what ifs don’t really have much meaning because, regardless of the eldar’s actions, it will still happen, just in a different way, say Angron was actually intelligent without butcher nail influence, it may have altered the course of the Horus heresy. Would you prefer snappy barking Angron, or an empathic calculating Angron affected by Horus’ sweet talk. Or as discussed before he might be loyalist but at the cost of another primarch falling to chaos
I like the theory that Angron was dead at the last stand, but the Emperor brought him back alive but mind wipe him of the trauma. Angron don't know the truth so he hates the Emperor.
Chaos is real sneaky. Put the non-fighter on the fighting world, so they'll fuck him up enough to where he won't be able to empath Horus into not being a whiny bitch. 10/10 scheme
Do you think that the emperor sabotaged Angron so thoroughly because he didn't want an empathetic and noble general? (and by extension, a legion like that) that he wanted cold, calculated warfare without being caught up on pesky things like morals and emotions? Or was it simply because he was annoyed that Angron's primarch power gave him the one thing the Big E didn't have? that being a heart.
If you wanted cold, calculated warfare without morals or emotions, Perturabo and especially Ferrus Manus are your generals? (The problem is that Perturabo kept thinking he was underappreciated and lashed out).
The Emperor not having a valid reason to spare Nuceria's oligarchy is a plot hole. Valuable technology and immediate submission I guess. The Emperor, seeing Angron damaged beyond repair, was only interested in using him while he was still somehow functional.
However, your theory is very interesting. I believe the Emperor is too detached from regular emotions to be kind of "jealous" (a shame to his character). But him wanting no empath in his war effort is credible. The Great Crusade as a glorious charge of knights is kind of propaganda, more like wide scale genocides, orbital and atomic holocausts, environmental poisoning, massive destruction and loss of life, more often than not in humans vs humans conflicts.
An empath had no place in that. Even berzerk Angron complains waging war against fellow human societies, wanting to be left in peace. Which is sure is the Emperor lacked a "heart" (basic human empathy) to ever understood XIIth, like he called him.
No-nails Angron and Vulkan would probably have been best friends.
Angron could have been a great friend with Vulkan if it hadn't been for the butcher's nail.
I love aangron and his story. I do hope one day that we can get some lore or an expert from his POV and potentially see some mental lucidity
So basically Angron is what happens when you lobotomize a square peg, try to shove it into a round hole, and refuse to let it know the sweet release of death.
This would make an AWESOME redemption arc...
IS he still within?
If anyone is currently watching this video and can answer this, did any of the primarchs besides lorgar actually care or try to help angron. I haven’t seen one video or piece of material that any of his brothers ever tried to empathize with angron, nor talk about his nails.
The only other bit with another primarch talking to him is guilliman, and while some of what blue man is true, it really was hypocritical of him to say ‘we’re primarchs, you should be better.’ Like..angron couldn’t physically change the nails without offing himself.
Imagine a clone angron meeting demon angron and taking his pain
Wow finally a decent video on angron made by you
From all of the traitor primarchs, Angron's betrayal was the only one trully justified. And I can totally understand his quest for revenge. I can only wish for a redemtion for him, maybe if the Emperor makes it right somehow...it would be awesome to see a redeemed Angron fighting for the Emperor.
That's what I'm saying. I want Angron to get a redemption arc more then any of the WINY!!! BABY!!! Demon primarchs
Khorne wanted Sanguinius. Had to make due with Angron.
Guts and Angron would probably be good friends
That's messed up man. That was really messed up
Even if the Big E saw the Primarchs as nothing more than tools and weapons, it was the ultimate idiocy to deploy one that had been so blatantly f-cked with by people of inferior technical ability. For a Perpetual, the Big E was often bizarrely impatient and unwilling to invest time in fixing things that were obviously broken. You can't tell me that he couldn't have figured out how to extract the nails and repair his Primarch. This is even worse than the stupidity of not explaining the true situation with Chaos to all of the Primarchs (and mankind in general) from day one.
So happy you made this video. Angron deserves so much more than the stereotyping that is prescribed to him. It is a horrific and tragic story.
My ultimate damnation of Angron is that everything that happened to him never, ever, ever excuses his actions. The Emperor did him wrong, and was unable to remove the nails and instead used him as a disposable warlord for his galactic crusade. But that is still no excuse for treating others as he did, he is a petty psychopath who tried to use his terrible life as an excuse to treat others, those who also depended on him, just as terribly which is damnable.
Choice is what marks the traitor primarchs as reprehensible. Choosing to give in and be just as shitty as the universe had treated them, and that is why they are demons now. Like a greek tragedy, they are the source of their ultimate suffering, not the universe.
Thats the thing, angron has his choice taken away at almost every turn and has to contend with the butchers nails, something that you kinda cannot overcome. No other primarch has had such an invasive force influencing their psychology.
EDIT: it does not excuse his action, but to say they were his choices and that he could have done differently is ignoring everything that happened to him
Father, it's good that you're awake. I was able to soothe you when you were sleeping. The slavers do have pretty advanced technology if it managed to knock you out. My thanks to you and your Custodes for helping us in the fight, Father.
Heresy? Chaos? Nails?
What are you talking about? Come, I'll help you get dressed. The Nucerian Liberation and Reconciliation Council is to be held in an hour, and Oenomaus expects me to make a passionate speech on behalf of my brother gladiators so the Nobles understand the pain of being a slave.
This is so sad! Why didn’t they try to remove the nails and try to heal him?
He's the one traitor I can see becoming loyal again.
Camera gear gotcha tripping!
Finally you see reason. Angron is the best primarch.
Poor angy, he was just a little guy.
Angron had great potential, in fact almost more than Fulgrim and Mortarion, definitely more than Magnus and the rest. Which just makes his fall more further and his stupidity more grand, Angron is still stupid, because, he was taught good from bad. And he employed in his actions at one piont. (This is the same in real life as well) Nothing Matters But the Heart. All the Primarch that went or fell to Chaos did so first not in their action, but in their heart. So it does not matter if my Father has used me, it doesn't not matter the task, sons and daughters of the Father can listen to their heart, at any moment, at any crisis or tribulation, and they can find and know the strength to do what is Good. The Emperor gave all his sons this ability before all thier others.
Still the orks won't care about his past, he took yarricks life and
That upset the orks
2:51 had to be that Guy
Nuseria
Okay now I want an alternative timeline with Angron the empathetic healer and his legion of incorruptible world eaters…
Yeah, those names do sound weird if they’re all Vulkan-tier good guys…
Thanks Crossfire.
Wait, I never heard that his gladiator brothers and sisters also had the butcher's nails?
Also, Angron did NOT chose to become a demon primarch. He was tricked and forced to become one by Lorgar against his will. Angron wanted to die, it was the only thing that would save him from the butcher's nails.
Also, his hatred of the emperor was the driving force behind him joining the heresy. He hated slavery, and rightfully recognized the emperor's domination and forced conscription of otherwise peaceful planets as the enslavement it was. He legitimately thought that joining the ruinous powers would grant him freedom, mostly because the emperor had failed to educate his sons on the truth of chaos.
@primadeluxe4910
Ehh, it was said that Angron only joined Horus because he could tolerate him that little bit more than the Emperor. Angron says this as he was speaking to Lorgar during the Shadow Crusade
Angron is like watching a beaten and abused dog running at a small child snarling its head off. Logically AND emotionally it's very easy to understand it ain't the dogs fault. It doesn't deserve this, doesn't deserve the pain, the shit life, the world teaching it to be this way. poor sad little creature.
but you still have to put it down as fast as possible because look what it's about to do.
That's one of the best descriptions I've ever heard wow
Fantastic description.
We dont have to hate mad dogs, but we do have to destroy him
Spot on
Angron a Jack Russell Terrier confirmed
If it weren't for the Eldar attempting to ambush kid Angron out of fear he becomes Khorne's champion from their visions, he wouldn't have been injured enough to be captured by Nucerian slavers and end up having the Butcher's Nails on his head in the first place.
In short, the blame lies on the Eldar's tendency to commit Self-Fulfilled Prophecy.
Yet another of the Eldar's failings as a species. It's no wonder they're almost extinct.
You could blame the eldar for about everything
the eldar are those rich snobby kids who finally got what they deserved then they just kept doing things that caused them to keep getting what they deserve
@@alphariusomegon3965 from my knowledge (so far) they basically caused the fall of two Primarchs, Fulgrim and Angron. Fulgrim by banging Slaanesh into existence and Angron by thinking they can do everything.
The Eldar are the only race that are a bigger failure than Lorgar and Angron.
I never really liked Angron. But the more I learn about him, the more of a truly tragic figure he really is. More so than the other Primarchs, the Emperor really did Angron wrong. Any other choice could have had him as an ally. Adeptus Ridiculous did a really good discussion about him that makes him a tragic character.
His origin book even implies the Emperor designed him to be the Heart of the Primarchs. As a child he was extremely caring and empathetic and had the power to take in peoples fears and nightmares so the other fighters could have a peaceful sleep. When E finally found him he was shocked to see what the planet had turned him into because he was never supposed to be what he became.
basically he was originaly a second Vulkan with probable heal powers, true tragedy
FUCK YOU LORGAR !!!
And Erda, don’t forget Erda.
Out of all the traitor primarchs angron was the most sympathetic.
@@robertnelson9599 we do NOT talk about that mistake! 👎
The best part about killing that Custodes is fact that the custodes was fully armored but Angron ripped him in half with his bare hands.
God damn
It really shows how primarchs (even a weakened one like angron) are just on another level.
“I’m not one of those belt weight panzies I can break a custodian in two”-Angron
Angron is strong enough to prevent a titan foot from crushing him and Logar!
@@michaelhunt3332 I meany weakened like just been forcefully kidnapped and without a weapon or armour and injured. All this and he still killed a custode
Why I've been craving to see a uncorrupted clone of Angron without the butchers nails in his head. Can you imagine Guiliman hearing that something like his brother was spotted on some backwater agri world only to find Angron chilling in a hammock after having escaped the cloning vats or some such.
Lile Clone Fulgrim, Guilli would be like "WTF?" Is this a trick from Abbadon or something?
An uncorrupted angron clone would be the dopest shit they could do imo
@@stefvanroey8191 second Vulkan
That would be amazing and Angron would be more pissed to see a version of him that isn’t tortured.
Dude this sounds like some badass headcannon. Games workshop could have their cake and eat it too. Have him swear off of warfare entirely and go into exile because he has his empathic powers. It'd be like the spear that Big E gave to Russ but Angron wouldn't have the option to put it down. It could be like the Butchers Nails in reverse.
Should have brought up the fact that his last rage before ascension was caused by Guilliman smashing the skulls of his lost gladiator brethren because he thought they were trophies.
Is it mentioned Guilliman thought they were trophies? I always assumed he did it out of spite, since the traitors already massacred entire planets and all that.
That, plus once Lorgar started the ritual it stole a second killing blow from Angron. He had Russ and Girlyman both dead to rights, and both times they skirted out of it. So that mixed with some of his "family's" remains being crushed really got him deep into that Khorne goodness
@@charleseaton2085 lol so angron was gonna kill them???
kill who? if its the gladiators your talking about, he took the skulls for sentimental and obvious reasons. he didn't kill them or plan to, although the big E basically killed the gladiators inderectly but directly by leaving them leaderless and hopeless
‘He howled?’ asked Lorgar. His eyes were wide, pearly with soft wonder.
‘The call to retreat,’ Angron replied. ‘A fighting retreat - it took longer than you can imagine for the World Eaters to realise the battle was over. I had whole companies still trying to fight the Wolves as Russ’s Legion ran for their gunships.’ He chuckled. ‘They took a lot of trophies for their tallies. Many wear them still.’
For several moments, Lorgar had to watch his brother’s flawed face to make sure this wasn’t some elaborate jest.
‘You didn’t answer Russ’s question,’ he said. ‘Did you truly learn nothing from that fight?’
Angron blinked, the dull edge of surprise coming into his eyes. ‘What revelation should I have come to? I learned he wasn’t allowed to kill me. I learned he postured in the hope of bringing me back to Terra, collared and submissive to his whims.’
‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief. ‘No, no, no. Angron, you stubborn fool. None of that matters.’
‘There were more dead Wolves on that field than dead World Eaters. That matters.’
That, thought Lorgar, was also arguable, but he let it pass. ‘Russ had you cold. You said you had him at your mercy, but he crawled free.’
‘He crawled.’ Angron chuckled again, making a meal of the word.
‘And when he rose, he had you surrounded. He could have killed you.’
‘He tried and failed.’
‘His men, Angron. His Legion could have killed you. Whether the Emperor ordered it or not, Russ spared your life. He didn’t retreat in shame, you arrogant…’ Lorgar sighed. ‘He was probably lamenting your thick skull all the way back to Terra, hoping you’d heed a rather consummate lesson in brotherhood and loyalty. Look what happened. Yes, you beat him in a duel. Yes, your men took down more of his than his of yours. And yet, who won the battle?’
‘The World Eaters,’ Angron said without hesitation.
Lorgar just stared at him for several seconds. ‘I appreciate that every living being must, by the nature of perception, understand and process life in a different way. But even for you, brother, this is achingly obtuse.’
‘You’re saying the Wolves won.’ Angron looked more amused than confused.
‘How can you not see it?’ Lorgar steepled his fingers, trying to rein in his own temper. ‘They won a victory worthy of engraving on their armour for all time. While you were glorying in your strength, Russ’s sons were loyal enough to come to him, to surround you both, to threaten your life while you stood at the vanguard of your own Legion. That may be the most comprehensive moment of outmanoeuvring in the history of the Legiones Astartes. It’s almost poetic in its elegance and emotional resonance. He proves his sons’ loyalty, while yours leave you to die. He proves the damage the Nails are doing to your Legion. He proves the tactical strength of taking an objective rather than fighting purely to kill. He spares your life in the hope you’ll see all of this, in a lesson it cost him heavily to teach you, and your reaction is to grin and claim yourself the victor.’
Angron didn’t chuckle that time. Lorgar could see it in his brother’s tensed muscles - some cognitive switch had clicked somewhere in his consciousness, and Angron’s rage was rising again.
‘Only one of us ran away that night. He’s weak.’
‘Gods’ blood.’ Lorgar was still managing, barely, to speak calmly. ‘The primarchs are the bridge between the Emperor and the species he leads. We are all weak, for we are all equal. All of us. We are humanity magnified: its virtues and its flaws.’
‘I am not weak. I have never been weak.’
‘You are not only weak if you fail to understand Russ’s lesson, you are also a fool.’
Beautiful bit of writing that
Love it, I love how Angron is characterised sometimes
Yeah turns out crude brain implantation makes you pretty dumb. Surprised he can even speak
You know people give Russ a lot of shit for the night of the wolf but I find it Ironic that Russ was the only brother that cared enough about Angron to try and help him without any ulterior motive.
That's just sad ;-;
I like how lograr turned angron into a demon primarch. As much as it is a complete tragedy he basically wanted to save one of the few people close to him, and in his own sick way, he did
I didn't even think about it that way but yea, your completely right
Oh fuck, that's true.
Brotherly love expressed in the worse possible way, Lorgar you fool.
@@hisokamorow6709 And your know what's worse? Khorne made Angrons pain 10 times worse, for that is where his rage comes from, pain.
More like doomed him to eternal slavery to Khorne masked as “helping” him ascend to daemonhood.
I thought lorgar was just using Angron as a tool for the heresy/chaos, masquerading it as ‘saving’ his ‘friend’
This is why I love the World Eaters, especially Khârn and Angron. They weren’t blood thirsty maniacs to begin with, but instead became that way as a “fuck you” to Big E.
Yeah, fuck humans being able to survive genocide against half a dozen other species. Gotta fight the guy trying to bring the Galaxy to peace
And the eldar to some extent
Can't recall if this is true or if I remembering something else, but during the great crusade, Angron took a ship and fucked off alone to some random uninhabited world and basically just wanted to be left alone and die only for kharn to to convibce him to get back in the fight. If true it paints his situation as more tragic and depressing since even then he still wanted just to be left alone and get some personal peace only to be dragged back into more war.
On the wiki they mentioned it, it took two years for Khârn to find him on a feral world living like a savage and looking for something that could kill him.
Add to that Kharn's contemplations on Angron.
He told Argel Tal and Garviel Loken that him and the World Eaters agreed to the Butcher's Nails and did all they did, despite knowing this would ruin them, only to feel kinship to Angron.
They saw all the other legions get demigods they looked upon with awe. They got Angron the Broken.
With all the resentment he felt for them, they could not let him go. Only after too many of them were past caring, and were just hateful, rage-filled bastards like him, did they start hating him - mostly cuz hate is all they had left at that point.
Book is Angron, Slave of Nuceria and it goes over the rebellion the world eaters had against the Butchers Nails too
I like that he basically tells guiliman that he knows nothing of honor he really put him in his place
I mean neither does Angron.
And guilliman's response on that also pack a punch
@@johndewey6405 Calling Angron a slave is like calling a crippled person a legless fucker and call that an argument.
@@kellerblair2952 arguable but all opinions here
@@kellerblair2952 Angron does pretend to be honorable
Tonite On Major Gear: Hammond goes toe to toe with Angron, James organises the Butchers nails and Jeremy presses the Teleport to ship button, pissing off Angron even more
And yes the stig won
@@inquisitorkryptman7893 always lol
Why did I instantly think of that in HIS voice
eldar: we can’t let him become the demon prince of khorne.
eldar: *weakens him*
angron: *become slave, get butchers nails and now a demon prince of khorne.*
eldar: wait this wasn’t supposed to happen.
Too late.....
That backfired
When I learned about Angron's back story I was both saddened and pissed the hell off at how much shit Angron had been put through.
Ya angron has a tragic story I still don’t like him but I do feel he’s the only primarch who would have a legit reason to betray the emperor out of all the traitors
Personally I feel Perturabo was pretty justified ngl
@@scottberry1073 what was his reason actually I don’t know much about him other then he was atheist and killed his sister and everyone on his planet then joined Horus
I actually like Lorgars reason as well.
My sympathy for lorgar only evaporated when he saw what he did to arghul tal and the gal vorbak.
It is literally said that he saw what he had done to them but didn't change his ways even though he was one of the most compassionate primarchs next to sanguinius and vulkan.
The initial reason for seaking out a new belief to put all the wars behind him was solid imo. Especially after the emperor did not just humiliate him but the entire word bearer legion in front of his eyes basically psycker torturing his son's into submission.
Lorgar was also done dirty imo.
Curferon and erebos are my most hated and loathed characters in the setting tbh.
@@PuddingXXL lorgar was a weakling and nothing more, he willingly limited himself to the worshiping of gods that he had no need to. He failed the moment he put his destiny into the hands of being that do not exist, then desperately try to seek out the gods of chaos only to prove a truth that is flawed in every aspects.
@@thecommentguy9380 You can't forget that he was majorly corrupted and influenced by his step dad.
Remember it was curferon who made him a religious fanatic basically.
Also lorgar always said that he hated war and suffering. He was one of the only primarchs who thought about what would happen after the crusade and that he wanted to be a poet and statesmen. He hated being seen as a tool for conquest and war when his abilities were mostly directed towards statesmen ship and governance even more so then guilliman.
I agree that it was a weak will to immediatly go look for another God but that is in part fault to Magnus who could have told him of the great dangers in the warp. Instead Magnus exploded his home and basically did the Big E version of "Just trust me bro" even though Magnus knew of lorgars psychological state and even saw the corrupting influence of curferon.
Lorgar had a similar tragic story to that of angron but instead of slavers implanting nails it was the Big E who did the same just on a soul level for lorgar.
Big E also should have known that lorgar was influenced by outside forces (erebus and curferon) so it's not entirely his fault tbh.
I feel like making him a mindless berserker in the end, while tragic and undoubtedly grimdark, is a missed opportunity cause lucid Angron could have been a great foil to the surviving loyalist Primarchs.
I have trouble believing the highly noble, honorable, and empathetic Angron without nails would have ever gone chaos. He’s be more bro tier than Sangiunius and Vulkan
"You ravage worlds of men, and annihilate their children and cultures unless they bend the knee to you. You claim to be for the future of Humanity, FATHER, but it's a future beneath your boot and guided by your whip! You might have a vision for humanity, but you have NONE yourself!
My Nucerians fought for their Freedom, and my Legion will be the Chain-breakers against your rule! You craft a future where you rule over humanity, my future is a future where Humanity decides, TYRANT!"
Angron, Primarch of the LEGIO XII "Chainbreakers", at the onset of the Angronian Apostasy.
"WE DIE STANDING AND WE DIE FREE!" ~ Warcry of the Chainbreakers Legion.
Like Konrad, yes. Lucid Angron would have been one of the best Primarchs
He spared the gladiators who FOUGHT WELL. Not 'had kids' or such reasons - no, the ones who fought well. That's Khorne, before the nails. Not necessarily traitor legion level of Khorne, but.. not all that angelic. But those nails... that's just a bad idea all around.
Here’s the thing though, the Angron who became the Deamon Prince was already severely severed from the warp entity that he drew his power from, so in essence, that primarch was already mostly “dead” and just a powerful being. When the Chaos Gods turn a primarch into a deamon prince they are expelling the warp entities that were connected to that primarch and filling that empty, very very powerful body, with their own essence. I’m my head cannon and mind, the primarchs were incredibly enhanced living bodies that you could capture and stuff a warp entity into as a soul. A human body can take a very small soul, a primarch body can take a (minor) warp god as a soul. The emperor created perfect bodies and made a deal with the chaos gods to give him the old minor gods that they had eaten to use them as souls for the primarch bodies he was creating. The deal that the emperor had broken was his end of the bargain that he would also create primarch like bodies for the gods themselves to inhabit. Just like the chaos gods have extensions of themselves represented as minor and greater daemons, the space marines are the same thing for the primarchs but in a physical form. When they are turned into a primarch, their souls are infused with that of their primarchs and they become an extension of them.
i think he's a representation of "a what could have been" character. like being an empath could have fixed so many issues amoung the primarchs,
Vulkan may have been the Heart but Angron was born for that role. I imagine if things had been different Angron and Vulkan would have been good friends, Angrons legion could have even played a role in helping planets recover after a successful invasion given his empathetic abilities and that Primarch legions personalities closely resemble the Primarch themselves.
Your content is the only thing keeping me updated with 40k at this point, keep it up!
Angron hadn't succeeded in conquering his planet YET. But Nurcia had loads of dark age technology, like the nails, and other goodies, that made the overlords of that world particularly difficult to shift. How much of an accomplishment was it for the other Primarchs, to rise to the top of their feral / feudal worlds? In fact, it's kind of interesting that the most troubled primarchs were the ones who landed on planets of higher tech levels that both seriously challenged them, and revealed the dark nature of humanity.
In fact, the reason why the emperor left Angron's followers to die was because he had made an arrangement with the leaders of the planet. This shows that even the emperor consider them a powerful force, better dealt with trough diplomacy than trough the force of arms.
It’s also worth mentioning that the other primarchs weren’t *literally* mentally handicapped by brain implants that made them feel perpetual agony.
@@ArgentumFox
I highly doubt that the Nurcerians were that much of a threat to the Imperium by the time the Emperor found Angron.
And I would've thought that big E would've wanted to wipe them out for irreversibly damaging one of his primarchs.
Because even if you believe that the primarchs were nothing but tools to the Emperor, they were very important tools and having some uppity mortals all but completely break one should've made him extremely angry to say the least.
In the book: Scions of the Emperor, short story: "the chamber at the end of memory". Survey crews dug a little too deep and inadvertently triggered some psychic wards put in place by Malcador to protect the tomb of lost primarchs. When Rogal Dorn arrived he recognized something familiar to the architecture, a sensation. His thoughts pulls him towards the memories of his "lost" brothers, but unable to recall the specifics of what they did. Then Malcador arrives, from nowhere. It would later be reveled that Malcador had locked away Dorns memories of his brothers, after his request. Dorn did not believe him, so Malacdor unlocked those memories - and dorn understood, that if they were here the war would already have been lost.
And that's why the 2 lost primarchs are one of my favorites as far as 40k lore is concerned.
I mean at my core I'm a secret seeker, so I want to know what they were, why they were erased from history, what was their crime, how powerful they were or could've been, if Dorn says something like that.
@@AZIONG651 well if the space wolves and dark angels had to go in, get their ass kicked and had to get back up the imperium would have gotten fucked hard if they were still here
3:25 If the Eldar hadn't attacked Angron, he would have gone to the route that of his Roboutian Heresy counterpart who managed to evade the Nucerian slavers, dodged the nails and later successfully liberated Nuceria from the High Riders before Big E arrived.
So once again it's the Eldar's fault that the galaxy is fucked over. I mean think about it, he could've used his empath abilities on the traitor primarchs and there would be no Heresy to begin with. I would even go as far as to say that not even Lorgar would've turned traitor, he would still resent Big E for Monarchia yes, but would probably not side with chaos.
@@morgothable it truly was a loss that we never saw what his other abilities were. Maybe he could've calmed Lorgar after his scolding by the Big E, or even made Magnus understand why the Big E never wanted him to study the warp.
@@NathanMarcusSPhua Ah yes, attempting to assassinate Angron is actually what led to Lorgar's humiliation and the total destruction of his entire worldview because the Emperor was an inhuman asshole and militant atheist... in fact, the Eldar made the Emperor into a militant atheist in the first place! And took away his humanity! And they also were the ones who made Magnus so narcissistic so he'd fall the Tzeentch. It's also totally the Eldar's fault that Konrad had horrible visions and was so fucked up psychologically. It is also the Eldar's fault Mortarion and his Legion were subjected to Nurgle's plagues.
Lmao
@@iamdream2562 no, I meant if Angron didn't lose his powers of taking people's suffering away from them, he could've used it on the primarchs that would've turned traitor.
make me wounder what would have happened if the Eldar rise angron
As tragic as Angron's backstory is, I think you could have made it FAR more tragic by not putting the nails in his head. He was an empath, designed to take to help ease the pain of the others. In the 40K Universe, there is simply too much pain to be eased, just from his brother's alone (nevermind the greater galaxy) especially dealing with the rejection Lorgar felt and the Agony Curze's visions caused him, the frustration of Pertarabo having to deal with the Hrud alone, and Magnus's betrayal after the sacking of Prospero and Big E. being the derelict dad he was just one day breaks Angron. That his joining of the heresy was the biggest shock, and made his brothers question if they weren't at least a bit justified at bringing their father down.
Then of course, Lorgar basically just somehow taps Angron into the pain of the galaxy that flows into the warp and that leads him to a path of rage. A rage that never stops, for he feels the pain he causes under Chaos and his own frustration further driving him along then path of every spiraling madness. That he wants to stop, but can't as the pain he know causes further feeds his anger, understanding that he, like the galaxy is broken and that no matter how much that tiny voice inside wants to stop, he knows he has long drowned in the sea of blood and fury that will only end when the cruel galaxy does.
So he’s screwed anyway:(
@@toheekang174 Yes, but he's screwed by the collective cruelty of the emperor's failure to raise his sons and the galaxy as a whole instead of his world's royalty and Big E cutting his losses. It's more tragic since in current lore, everyone knew the second the Hersey happened, how Angron would declare, however in this scenario, the empathetic Angron, who was always there for his brothers falling would shake even the loyalists to their core.
If angron didn’t have the nails their wouldn’t be a heresy because the primarchs would the support of angron which wouldn’t leave them vulnerable to corruption, lorgar wouldn’t have fallen to chaos if a nails free angron was there to support him in his hour of need
That goes for most traitor primarchs, with a supporting and loving brother like angron who’s always there for them and is able to take away their pain , chaos wouldn’t be able to even get close to corrupt any of the primarchs
6:46 Or Big E should have unleashed the World Eaters Legion to aid Angron and fight side by side with their Primarch to destroy the High Riders and claim Nuceria for the Imperium.
The Emperor not having a truly valid reason to spare Nuceria's oligarchy is a major plot hole. It's left to the reader's imagination. I guess they had very valuable knowledge/technology and submitted before the imperial fleet's arrival. I also guess the Emperor had no great plan for Angron and his legion and was only interested in using them while they were still functional, before erasing them all.
Nuceria was part of Ultramar. It was already compliant
@@t.m.t3215 Which doesn't speak well to Big - E's thought process or character. I don't care how many shinies the Shit - Riders had to offer, Big - E could've just outright conquered the planet and taken them all anyway. Considering the full out depravity of the Shit Riders, he would've been more than justified in doing so and that would've easily won Angron to his side. The only thing that would've made it better and probably turned him into an outright fanatic for Big - E would be if he not only saved his buddies, but personally took to the field with Angron so they could conquer Nuceria together. Perfect father - son bonding moment and everybody wins! But no, E in all his inscrutable dickery chose THAT moment of all times to act like a damn troll. Fast forward to the Horus Heresy and Angron's basically saying 'That's right! Who's laughing now, old man!!! WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!!!!'
@@oceanberserker The Emperor at that point had lost all basic human empathy and could not bring himself to the level of minds different than his, nor did he care.
The fact that the custodes were the only beings he somehow felt good with is a massive red light about how far removed from humanity he now was.
He was only thinking in pros and cons: "XII is damaged beyond repair, it won't last long, I'm just gonna use it as long as it can function, then I will destroy it. I'm keeping that faithful asset (Nuceria) intact."
Which of course turned out to be a catastrophic mistake.
@@t.m.t3215 All the more reason that he (Big - E) was doomed to fail.
Imagine a timeline where Angron and Sanguinius were best mates, a pair of legendary honour-bound brothers loved and respected by their brothers. One can only dream.
So Horus wins the Heresy as Vulkan fell to Khorne's rage insteas
@@christiandauz3742 that's honestly terrifying
@@Stuffman1861
It's not coincidence HALF of the Living Primarchs and Legions fell to Chaos
@@Stuffman1861 Not really. Christian Dauz made it all up.
He is the equivalent of Matt Ward fanboying Chaos
Darth Majorkill: "Have you heard The Tragic Tale of Angron the Absolutely Livid Gladiator?"
Angron the Pissed sounds better
I thought not. It's not a story the slaves of the False Emperor would tell you
lol
*the hectic gladiator
Two Primarchs would be most deserving of a redemption arc: Angron and Magnus.
They were fucked over the most from the beginning.
Angron is actually one of my favorite Primarchs because of his backstory (I started my WH40K journey with the Horus Heresey books, so I got his backstory early on).
big e: hey leman, get magnus for me
leman: alright
*destroys prospero*
big e: bro wtf
Nope, Magnus was done in by his own arrogance. While the flesh changes were planted by Tzeentch, Magnus was still arrogant enough to think he could solve all the problems. While the Emperor did a shit job at warning the Primarchs about the dangers of the Warp and Chaos, Magnus was told time and again to stop f**king around with the Warp. But did he listen? No.
Angron is a tragic character. Makes you wish there could be a way to reverse all that has happened to him, but that just isn't who he is meant to be.
I want to write an alternative heresy where angron doesn't turn traitor. But unfortunately I'm not a good enough writer to do that lol
@@twinphalanx4465 Fanfiction isn't a bad place to start writing. If you got mates into Warhammer 40K you could write down the story and show it to them, get feedback and all that.
His story is awesome. Alpha legion is my favorite but Angron and the World Eaters have some of my favorite books and stories
Yeah Betrayer was one of my favourite HH books.
Betrayer 😌
Hydra Dominatus
@@ionnanskilliorus6877 mine as well but oh god do I hate alpharius due to that book lol.
@@PuddingXXL Betrayer was about Angron and Lorgar waging war in Ultramar, you might be thinking of Deliverance Lost when the Alpha Legion absolutely butt stuffed the Raven Guard and ruined their shot at rebuilding. Another on of my favorites for sure 👌🏽
Another suggestion could we get a video about great warriors from loyalists legions from 30k ?
Must admit, my view of Angron was very much influenced by your take, but having recently read The Betrayer novel from the Heresy I feel a lot more sympathy for him as a character. He is still the worst of the Primarchs, but the reasons for his shortfalls are explained really well in this book.
For me perturabo is the worst written primarch. Not one book where he appears makes his reasoning for betrayal solid. He is more so a whiny cry baby that was corrupted like a common guardsmen.
Perturabo is just poorly written in my eyes. Angron at least had a reason to slaughter an entire planet full of his sons while perturabos reasoning was "lol I spite dad"
Weird, angron is by far my favourite primarch
I don’t understand how Angron could be the worst when Lorgar is right there
Get in Slave of Nuceria, After Deshe'a, and The Butcher's Nails as well. Those with betrayer give you basically the full Angron run down from him landing on that shit hole of a planet, up to daemonhood at the end of Betrayer. It's depressing as fuck. I play World Eaters and got into them simply because of Kharn and the models. Thought Angron was basic as hell, then hit the lore and just felt genuinely bad for the dude. It's a lot like Frankenstein's monster, Angron effectively died in those pits, and the monster Big E found had been stitched together with a bad brain and only shown violence and hate.
@@orbitalbutt6757 blame curferon and erebus for lorgar
I thought Angron was low tier until I read Betrayer. After that it’s really hard to not have pity for him. The descriptions of the Butchers Nails is some of the most horrifying shit I’ve ever read. He fantasises about a simple moment of quiet the way Majorkill (and other individuals of high culture) fantasise about a sexy warhammer 40k themed cosplay Hooters, just big tiddy Eldar goth gfs bringing pints of beer to the table aka Heaven.
Dante: I understand your desire to die even if I do not agree with your methods, uncle
Angie: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Just realized that the "every Primarch planet works for them" still applies to Angron. If it wearn't for the Eldar, then there was a world out there for Angron to pull towards the light, oppressed populations to fill with hope, and vicious tyrants for him to prove they are wrong in their ways. But again, the Eldar.
The eldar are basically the living example of the saying “one often meets fate on the road to avoid it” or something like that, by looking into a possible future and acting upon that limited knowledge , they wouldn’t have doom angron to be a Demon of khorne
i had a heart attack when i saw the title
then, the next title is: Lion IS not the best primarch, would absolutely kill us
@@sanzharkhairov501 gross the lion.
@@sanzharkhairov501 Lion is the most overrated primarch
@@sanzharkhairov501 I’d unsubscribe
I find mortarion to be overrated than the Lion