Leigh ton, it seems as if buying into a system can cause us to deny some very basic biblical truths in order to make everything fit. For example John 3:16 which is one of the most basic truths in scripture can’t mean what we’ve always understood it to mean, or because of the system we can longer understand the major differences between the power of the Bible and the lie of the Quran. “The power of God to salvation” (which is the gospel) is now some mystical thing that we can’t understand or respond to. To me although there is benefit from understanding theology systematically, it becomes a danger when we start to deny very basic biblical truths in order to make a system (and all its logical inferences) all coherently fit together.
🎯 Continuing... We don't need any 'ism' or follow any man (Lutheranism, Calvinism, etc)... Interestingly, the very early church was much more focused upon their actions (deeds) than doctrinal statements. Read the Book of James from the early Jerusalem church. This is called "Propositional tyranny" and it dominates the modern church. 🙏
I’m a little confused as I always believed that the HS is the reason people come to Christ when they hear the word due to conviction. But if I can come on my own then why need the HS. But if I do need the HS to do the working in me of conviction, then I can’t come on my own. Some one help me here.
I think this speaks into the part where Brian brings in about Satan and demons.... Matt 13:NLT 18“Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds: 19The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts. 20The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy. 21But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word. 22The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced. 23The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”
This fellow misses the obvious. We resist and avoid the small gate and narrow strait path because of the (perceived) DIFFICULTY of squeezing ourselves through the GATE and traveling on the difficult way. Faith in Christ involves losing our lives for Him Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever LOSES HIS LIFE for My sake will find it (Matthew 10:39) The word LOSE is ἀπολέσας means " (has) SUFFERED THE LOSS OF OUR LIVES FOR HIM" This is speaking of - the particular time when we ceased to OWN and POSSESS our soul . Conviction seems impossibly hard. The unattainable holiness of Christ is set in contrast to our sinfulness. After we trust Christ we receive the Spirit who shows us that with His help we can walk with Him.
So Brother Leighton you are saying by the word “provisionism” that you are not of Calvin, or Arminian, but of Christ (1 Corinthians 1:12)? Couldn’t help it Brother😂!
The working or action of THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary for one to be convicted of their sin and need for CHRIST to be saved, but THE HOLY SPIRIT doesn't make HIMSELF irresistible, HE doesn't force HIMSELF on us or everyone would be saved.
@brotherjohnreid9473 so you don't believe that the work of THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary to bring someone to salvation? You actually believe that one can come to GOD without THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH convicting them ? I'm an anticalvinist, but I don't let that cause me to deny the truth of scripture by overreacting to their false claims of irresistible salvation .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421so you don’t believe when shaping your theology you ought to be faithful to the Biblical text? The convicting work of the Holy Spirit is a worldwide reality, but it is not the only source of conviction, and conviction does not equal drawing. If you can show me otherwise in the Bible, I’ll change my mind.
@@brotherjohnreid9473 you've gone off tge deep end . I never said anything about conviction meaning drawing , although it can mean that , just not irresistibly. I am staying loyal to the text but it seems you aren't actually. You never did answer my question . My question was , do you believe one can be convicted of their sins and need for CHRIST without the conviction of THE HOLY SPIRIT ? The gospel itself is convicting but because THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH works through the gospel and other things as well . Please just answer my question my friend.
I'm sure glad I found your channel. For years I was tormented believing I could be non elect. Can you imagine loving God and desiring to be saved and not accepted by God. That is so horrible to believe that. Thank you Leighton what a burden lifted.
I dont agree with calvinism but I want to say to you, and to the people that cliked on the thumbs up, You mentioned "tormented" and "believing" then "I could be" then "Non-Elect" in the same sentence and not to nit pick on your sentence but it sounds messy. the Word says that we should analyze ourselves to see if we are in the faith. The One that gives assurance is God through Christ, when we believe through faith; we accept the free gift of salvation that is given by Grace. The Holy Spirit seals us, and as we study His Word, that assurance grows strong and strong. This is what I believe "faith to faith" is (I could be wrong) All this happens whether you believe in Calvinism or not, I believe that Calvinist make that decision after they are saved and they emotionally pick sides and then twist scriptures to satisfy that. Respecftlly.
10:18 ... Leighton, with all due respect, don't give him any 'quarter' on this. Dr. Abasciano does, in fact, call it 'mystical'. It is not... but he definitely uses that term in a subtle pejorative way to undermine his opponent/you. He is obviously playing with his 'mental blocks'. In order to defend his premise he, like all ideologues, (no offense intended), must 'dance' around the facts that their paradigm prevail.
Learning so much from these analysis vids and dialogues. I think shifting from one position to another has advantages in that it makes you more aware and willing to ask hard questions as well as to see WHY people say what they say. I do believe the Holy Spirit (who is a person) is always working when His word and the gospel is proclaimed-- they are God breathed words and they are often given through people with the indwelling Spirit. What people do with that is on them. Biblical scholars can be believers or unbelievers. The difference is in the attitude toward what they are studying. Is my proclamation more powerful when I pray for HIs help? I think the bible would support that. Is it insufficient if I did not and said the same words? I don't believe so. The truth is the truth.
The last question can't be answered in that any message is the sum of three parts, the speaker, the message and the hearer. But, I commend you for placing the power in the Gospel itself: "I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God..."
the LOTR - analogy is great! Elves were taken by the Dark Lord and twisted and made into Orcs. Saruman later bred another, more powerful version of orcs, the Uruk-Hai. The evil orcs were from the beginning good elves, so the evil in Tolkien´s world is something good that has been corrupted. Of course you are more blameworthy if you have the capacity to choose otherwise. Jesus makes this point about knowledge, that a servant that knows his masters will deserves a harsher punishment. The more you are given, the greater the responsibility in biblical justice. I wonder if the reason Chris Date (who I love) can´t relate to this is that he has as a calvinist trained himself to separate the actions from the causes, since he believes that man is responsible for the evil even if God decreed it.
The Gospel is the POWER of salvation ...it is THE power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. For those who are not willing to believe it doesn't matter, because "The righteous shall live by faith. " Rom.1:16.
Amen RL. Faith comes by hearing, when the Hearing is the Divinely Inspired Word of God... personified by Jesus, the Logos of God. That's why 👿 works so hard to thwart & twist it to people. He started with the first two created "Hath God indeed said???"
I remember having this question when Brian said this in your debate. Hearing him say it again now reminds me to ask this question. At around the 36 minute mark he posits that there is Scripture saying man cannot respond rightly and cannot believe/ understand the Gospel without God doing something to our hearts. What Scripture says that?
The problem with Brian‘s statement is like most Augustine, determinism beliefs, there’s a bit of truth mixed in with the purposely unclear teaching. Of course, God changes our hearts, of course, the Holy Spirit woos us, but what they really are saying is that God has determined, by his own decree to judge individuals for not doing something he designed them unable to do. There is not a single anti-freewiller that has ever explained Grace, love, sin and choice in a world without free will ✌🏼👍🏻
Your debater says something to the effect "do we believe that the word of God is mystical in some way to cause a reaction different to reading the koran." The answer, it would seem should be, "What does the word of God say about the word of God?" That answer doesn't require a name given to it. The answer is what the word of God "says." First, the gospel is the POWER OF GOD FOR SALVATION to everyone who believes." (Rom 1:16). God's word is different because it is a living thing and it is active. It has abilities that no other word has (Heb 3:12). God Himself declares that His word that goes forth from his mouth shall NOT return to Him empty without accomplishing what He desires and without succeeding in the matter for which He sent it (Isaiah 55:10,11) All Scripture is "inspired"...it is "God-breathed." God's "breath" is in all Scripture. This is why it is living. Adam himself became a "living being" because God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life." (Gen 2:7). Additionally toward what some Arminians say that God gives to each person a measure of faith. There is only 1 verse in Scripture which states "a measure of faith." It's found in Romans 12:3. The context surrounding this text is that God gives to each believer a measure of faith regarding their spiritual gift or gifts. You can't yank it from it's context and apply it to salvation or pre-salvation when it isn't addressing salvation. The instruction beginning in Romans 12 is given to those who are already believers.
thank you for producing your content. I use it a lot to show people what I believe about soteriology. You represent my beliefs and the correct biblical doctrine very well. God bless.
I don't know how you can claim that the bible doesn't teach the depravity of man romans 6:17 says man is a slave of sin. Only thru His prevenient grace God brings us to the place where faith is possible by the preaching of the word when sinners hear the word at that moment they are encounter with God and at that moment they can either accept or reject Paul clearly said that the Gospel is God's Dynamite for the salvation of those who believe that is why is so important for the church to preach so sinners can come to the place of being able to accept the Gospel message. God is the one who initiates our salvation but we have the responsibility to respond we are not so dead as not being able to respond to God's calling we just can't come when we feel to. Gods prevenient grace is offered to all humans thru the Gospel call. My problem with some of your logic is when you say that if we can accept any other truth why can't we accept the Gospel truth well it is because the Gospel message is the one truth or message that we are naturally inclined to oppose any other world view or belief is not in contradiction to our spiritual condition therefore we can easily believe anything we want to believe in.
Listening to people defending total inability is frustrating. He says, because of our sin, we are inclined to accept lies and reject the truth. But while I am inclined to avoid touching dog poop, I am incapable of touching the moon. Its not total inclination. Its total inability. Don't claim one is true by describing the other.
I am not a good Christian, apparently, because I don't consider Adam's sin to be anything more than a perfectly understandable error in judgment about a Being he knew virtually nothing about. Almost literally "born yesterday", with no life experience, no History, no Book, and no knowledge about what he himself was (a human being), let alone about a Being vastly more intelligent and knowledgeable than himself. I see no reason for God to be punishing people for thousands of years because that man was gullible. I believe God knew full well that he would be gullible under such circumstances, and that what we are seeing in the text is for us to consider carefully. Not for us to judge Adam and Eve by, and to blame for being what God made them to be (an example for us to consider carefully). I don't think He was even a little bit surprised, or even disappointed by what happened. I don't believe there was any alternate Plan based on them somehow being cognizant of all sorts of things we can now be cognizant of, because the Plan was to make us cognizant of those things Adam couldn't have been. To me (nobody special) it is childish to think mankind is being punished for Adam's sin.
Believe it or not, I agree with you. Been thinking about this for a while now. I can remember the first time I disobeyed my own conscience when, at around 7 or 8 years of age I stole some candy from a store. I was taught not to steal so I knew it to he wrong. But I did it anyway. The shameful, pain I felt in my guts was horrible. I was mortified I could see where Eve might have done the same. She knew the consequence, but when listing the thought process she went through, notice she didn't consider it. It was delightful to look upon, good for food and to make her wise. So, yeah. I can see truth in this. I haven't fully studied this out in scripture so I'm not 100% yet. But it's food for thought to he sure
@@shredhed572 - "She knew the consequence, but when listing the thought process she went through, notice she didn't consider it." I'm not sure she did "know" the consequences. She had been warned by that first "Person" she met, that they would surely die, but I'm not sure they even knew what that really meant, let alone that the warner was truly trustworthy. I suspect many people are "reading" what they now know, into the minds of those newbies. And I believe that "what is the nature of God?", what is He really like and up to, is what the Book is about/for us to consider. And what I noticed also, along the lines of what you noticed/mentioned, is that they didn't hesitate so they could ask that first Person about what this other person had told them was His nature and what He was up to. That much I can sort of "blame them" for, in some sense, but even that is probably me reading into their minds what I now know. (They were new and ignorant people.)
His view (the arminianin scholar) of total inability and how previenant grace overcomes it, is not the classical arminian or most definitely not the wesleyan view. We cannot say all arminian or weslyan theologians think this way. We all don't agree with Roger Oslen's term "partial regeneration" either. The classical view is the work of Christ on the cross works proleptically backwards and forwards throughout time giving a measure of grace to all humanity nullifying total depravity. It's because of PG, Abel was able to please God, it's because of PG, anyone from Genesis to a baby born today has a God freed will to chose to work with His grace and not be bound to the sinful nature. This guy is technically a one point calvinist. The classical view is we are born with a sinful nature and into total depravity but because of the grace of God, we are able to make decisions and be able to respond to His grace. This grace can be resisted over time and you can be hardened over time. His argument brother is not all of our arguments and he doesn't represent all of us who hold to a weslyan or classical arminian view. Also Wesley like myself believed guilt was wiped away by the cross as well. Working backward and forwards.
That sounds like provisionism unless I've misunderstood what you've said . If I have, can you please explain the difference between what Leighton teaches and what you've said here . Thank you . GOD bless
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 That is my point. Leighton argues with guys in the arminianin camp that are closer to calvinist. Not all arminianin or weslyan thinkers hold to the same view. I agree with provisionism for the most part although the acrostic is completely unnecessary and I mean that with respect and humility. The difference between what my weslyan view of depravity and provisionism is that PG goes all the way back to the beginning and clears the effects of the fall and so called OG guilt. Now human beings have been supernaturally given grace to do good and to hear from God but you have to cooperate with that grace and God always makes the first moving in giving the grace and that grace can be resisted. I don't want to misrepresent Dr. Flowers but I'm pretty sure he doesn't hold to that view.
@richardwashington5911 Thank you . I know that Leighton believes that GOD has given all men grace and I know that he believes that GOD is the first mover thriugh the gospel and in that THE HOLY SPIRIT is convicting the world of sin and HIS work has to take place for one to come to salvation but HIS work or action isn't irresistible in Leighton's view or mine either. I believe personally that THE work or action OF THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary for one to be convicted of their sin and their need for CHRIST but it's not an irresistible conviction unto salvation . THE HOLY SPIRIT doesn't force HIMSELF, HE doesn't make HIMSELF irresistible or everyone would be saved .
@richardwashington5911 also, at the beginning of the video, Leighton stated that this guy doesn't hold to the classic Wesleyan view and pointed out some of the differences .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Looks like we agree brother. This is why I commented on his video. I don't want him creating a strawman or some false belief that some of us who are not provisionist do not agree with him on mostly everything. Even if we define and apply grace differently. There doesn't need to be more division in the body but unity. It's almost like there is an underlying desire to bring everyone over to one side instead of just getting along and agreeing with what we have in common. Then we realize we are actually closer than it seems. One man's view isn't the entire group!
Good conversation. The Bible is not mystical, but it is powerful and it is alive. That must be acknowledged. The Bible itself claims to be alive and it claims the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Those things must be acknowledged and dealt with. Only provisionism deals with those claims.
There are sufficient scriptures to show that the Arminians are right. First, John 16:7-11. While I would say that prevenient grace is not necessary, co-venient is. That is, the spirit is always moving wherever the word is proclaimed, even if that word is proclaimed with wrong motives, Philippians 1. This passage in John says that the spirit is necessary to understand righteousness and sin and the foundation of judgment. 1 Cor. 1:22-24 indicate there are people, both Jew and Greek, hearing the gospel, but in verse 24 there is a required call to respond. It wasn't enough to hear the gospel, but there had to be a call upon the heart. In the same epistle, it says that Paul planted, Apollos watered but God gave the increase. This makes no sense unless there is a necessary work of God to bring the person to faith. The use of modern apologetics is problematic at best. If one looks at the apologetics in the book of acts, the apostles quoted Old Testament scripture and then required the people to believe it or not. For instance, when the Jews denied Paul's teaching, he didn't try to use apologetics like we would. Rather, he quoted Isaiah six and walked away. He walked away because he knew from the evidence that the spirit of God wasn't getting through to those hardened hearts. The defense of the proclaimed faith is the quotation of Old Testament scripture. There is one, what we might call extra biblical, Apologetic given in 1 Corinthians 15. But this apologetic is not like modern apologetics, which try to come up with enough evidence to say the Bible is probably true, Jesus is probably the savior. No, Paul said there were over 500 eyewitnesses that his readers could go to And get direct proof of the resurrection, Eyewitness proof. No one can give eyewitness proof today, which means our modern apologetics are inferior and ultimately use the wisdom of men to try to convert, rather than save, people. The reason the apostles used scripture apologetics is because faith comes by hearing the word of God, not by the wisdom of the world in convincing people that we are right. First Corinthians 1 refutes that. It makes sense that people can read, understand, and choose to accept any other writings, including any other scriptures, simply by studying and considering them. When people take this approach with religions and philosophies, they come to a conclusion as to what is most likely the best to follow in this life. And this is done with Christianity also. There are professed Christians who follow Christianity to some extent because they were raised to think it was true, or because after doing a comparison, they thought it the best religion to follow. This is what modern apologetics accomplish. But Christian faith comes specifically by hearing the word of God. And because man has a sin corruption, he has a animosity to God as he is and to the truth as God proclaims it. This holy scriptures are different from all the writings and other scriptures because it is the truth, and man has an innate animosity against the true God just as he is and against the truth just as it is. As shown above, with some passages, the spirit of God must convict the heart and conscience, and must bring the increase of faith. I have not finished listening to this video. Having listened to part of this and another video earlier, I found the provisionist view fully untenable, while I also believe that the classical Arminian view is also untenable. Also, John 6:44, similar to 1 Corinthians 1, doesn't make sense if we think it to be merely the proclamation of the word of God that draws. Israel had the word of God proclaimed for many centuries, and Jesus was then proclaiming it. And in the midst of that, Jesus says that no one can come to him unless the father draws them. The context is not about human beings who have never heard the holy scriptures at all. The context is about why people (everyone within a Jewish context, and many non-jews, if not all non-Jews that had any affiliation with Israel) were not converting after hearing the word of God; that is, something more than the word was needed for those hearing it, and that is the drawing of God. That drawing is explained in the passages above that I have given. Also, Acts 16:14.
To be spiritually dead in sin and trespasses is different from being physically dead. There are still many things we could do spiritually dead that we cannot do physically dead. To be physically dead is a picture that God uses to show that God must be involved in the conversion process
The Cain and Abel story refutes total inability, because no evidence in scripture supports an intervention by God, to cause Abel to obey. What more do we need for evidence, that human nature did not change after the "fall?" Abel, obeyed. Cain did not. The truth is that from the beginning to the present day human nature, as created by God, has not changed. Having presented my view at least a dozen times, no Calvinist has been able to support their view, or to refute mine, in light of Cain and Abel. The calvinist response is always to present, a long list of scripture. No. The inclination of human nature is to pursue desire, a God created feature of humans, serving several positive purposes. God created a human, who created a hammer to drive nails, to satisfy our desire to drive nails. But the creator of humans, and the creator of the hammer did not prevent the desire to smash the head of another in order to kill them. Cain pursued his desire. Abel pursued his desire. Understand desire, and every decision of humans from Adam and Eve, to the 2023 present, makes sense. No, we are not born with sin; we are born with desire, a humab characteristic created by God. Even Leighton's view of humans is not supported by scripture. He is mostly correct but not completely. My desire to know truth, to know God, to investigate what God wants from me will influence my choices. Another person's desire to acheive power, wealth and control will influence their choices 2 different desires, producing 2 different outcomes.
So on your view of desire and human beings, what is the role of regeneration in a persons life? It seems to me that there is no role for the Holy Spirit to make hearts of stone into hearts of clay, or to take up residence in the hearts of man. Should we expect the Lord to change people when they believe the gospel? What does it mean to be reborn on your view?
@@DMilbury Those regenerated are those who DESIRE to be saved and ACCEPT the conditions of salvation. What are those conditions? Belief that J.C is our Lord and savior; repenting of current and past sins; Repentance means a desire to reject all sin, and maintain a commitment to avoid or reject sin. This does not mean we can be successful on our own. Hebrews makes clear that salvation is conditional on the part we are to play: repentance.
@@DMilbury Not all beliefs require an action from us. The belief that the sun raises in the east, and sets in the west, could be true or false, but either way, that belief requires NO action from us. To be saved, does require 2 things from us: belief (faith in its truth, including promises), and our repentance. Repentance is an ongoing action our entire Christian life. Please read every word in the Webster definition of repent: 1. To amend or resolve toamend one's life as a result if contrition for one's sin. 2. To change one's mind with regard to past or intended action, conduct, etc., on account of regret or dissatisfaction. 3. To feel regret, contrition or compunction for what one has done, or omitted to do. There are words in the definition, that indicate what repentance would entail in the life of a Christian. In scripture, repentance does not involve the H.S., where as avoidance of sin does. Over and over scripture warns, "Control your desires." Depending on the strength of a sinful desire, we may need the H.S. One recovering alcoholic may need the H.S. to stay out of a bar; another recovering alcoholic may not... but will require the assistance of the H.S. to overcome a different sinful desire. My original comment on desire stands. Not one person can refute the evidence I presented in the story of Cain and Abel. The human soul did not change after the "fall." Human nature (inclinations/desires) did not change after the " fall." Human behavior did not change after the "fall."
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 The human heart has the capacity for wickedness. Agreed. Genesis 2:7-24 reveals activities over a time period, from the moment of Adam's creation, through the creation of Eve. At verse 16 God gives a command. Any indication in those verses 7-24 of wickedness of Adam or Eve? No. In fact there was no Eve when the command, 16-17 was given. Where in verses 7-24 is human wickedness indicated? So in the period of time after Adam and Eve were created, they were compliant and obedient. Not until Genesis 3: 6 does the first act of human disobedience occur.....where Eve followed her desire for something other than God. As to all the other scriptures you cited, each speaks to specific actions of either a specific group or humankind. The fact that God spared Noah and his family from death by the flood proves that humans can make virtuous decisions.....while others do not.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 No, untrue. ONLY the moment Adam and Eve disobed, he/she committed an evil act or wickedness. The question you should be asking is how was THEIR action possible if God created creatures only capable of good decisions? Again, it is the human characteristic of desire, CREATED by God that results in obedience or disobedience. Abraham, Moses, Noah and others DESIRED to obey God....yet we see those same men following their earthly desires. David is a good example. Your ideas are not coming from scripture, nor can your philosophy of human wickedness, be supported in scripture, e.g., Abel's desire to obey and please God. And Cain's desire to disobey. Cain was unwilling to put in the effort to give God, Cain's best. All sin is rooted in desire. All good is rooted in desire.
On the issue of whether people who aren't born again are or are not able to believe the ideas stated in the bible - consider this - the bible speaks to every happening under the sun! Therefore if people are prevented from believing biblical truth until they are born again it would mean they weren't capable of thinking straight about any situation or activity on earth which has any association with relational/spiritual wisdom. I make the same point to those who argue that Chistians should not be involved in politics. Politics is about everything that matters - relationships, money, the order of society, the environment - everything! If Christianity has nothing to do with politics then it has nothing to say about anything.
DW: Consider the possibility that the 'T" in Calvinism's TULIP functions as a lie of omission. A lie of omission is communication designed to mislead - by omitting critical facts which if not omitted would not mislead. In the case of Calvinism's TULIP - the "T" is designed to strategically omit the critical fact - that per the underlying doctrine - the state of nature - including every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - is 100% meticulously predestined. And at any nano-second in time - the state of man's nature cannot possibly be other than what it was decreed to infallibly be. The Calvinist uses the "T" in his TULIP to FALSELY attribute man's abilities/inabilities to the state of his nature - and thus attribute his eternal destiny to the state of his nature. When the TRUTH is - both the state of man's nature - at every nano-second in time - as well as man's eternal destiny - are FIXED by infallible decree before man is created. And man has NO SAY and NO CHOICE in the matter of anything. The Calvinist knows - that if he tells the TRUTH about his doctrine - the average Bible reader will reject it. So he created the TULIP as a marketing tool designed to *OBFUSCATE* the parts of his doctrine which he knows people are going to reject.
It seems the Arminianists say to the Calvinists: Whoa, hold on there, you can't blame God for everything (complete and total determinism), he's only to blame for these things (a much smaller list of determinism). Both seem to engage in what amounts to blame shifting. They cry and whine that God made them this or that way, such that they are now, somehow, not blameworthy. All their nonsensical theology and blame shifting comes from the influence of Gnostic philosophy on western thought. Provisionalism at least takes the "blame" and puts it where it belongs, at the foot of the wilful sinner. And who among us has not sinned?
Agree 👍 For some reason I'm reminded of romans where Paul quotes Isaiah "All day long I have held out my hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people." His hand is extended He's not making anybody sin, nor accept Him!
When he was using 2 Corinthians 4:4 to prove total inability and that prevenient grace is needed to lift those blinders enacted by Satan, I think he's ignoring the second half of that verse: "... unless the glorious light of the gospel should shine unto them." It's the gospel that's the "power unto salvation" that allows people to make the choice to remain blind or to open their eyes and see.
I think that given his own terms, brother Flowers is right on, however, prevenient grace might not be defined so narrowly. It can be seen as the grace which precedes the grace (gift) of eternal life, as John puts it: "...grace for grace..." !
Brian: I guess use of Logos to describe both Jesus and the written word is inconsequential. If the written word was somehow incomplete or incapable then why don’t the NT writers used the Rhema, which can be used to describe PART of what someone said as opposed to the totality someone’s testimony. An Arminianist usually uses the argument to say the written word is not enough on its own.
I agree that people possess the ability believe in the Gospel message; however, believing in the Gospel message (a head knowledge) is something anyone can do, for even the demons believe and shudder. In contrast to a head belief in Lord Jesus after hearing the Gospel, there are those who are receptive (the humble and crushed) who will act upon that belief by placing their faith in Jesus as Lord. This faith includes repentance, which is a turning from the old master, and now submitting one's life to Lord Jesus whom the believer now commits to listen to and follow. This activity of a person receptive to the Gospel call all occurs before receiving the Spirit to regenerate the believer (Acts 5:32; John 14:21; John 14:23; John 7:37-39). However, although regeneration occurs after one puts their faith in Lord Jesus, the Spirit works on the hearts and minds (John 1:8-9; John 16:7-12; Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12) of those who hear and are receptive the Gospel - this is what I am understanding as the call of the Spirit on such persons as the Gospel is preached (John 6:44-45; John 16:7-12; Revelation 3:20). Those receptive are the humble and crushed (Psalms 25:8-9; Psalms 34:18-19; Isaiah 61:1-2; Matthew 11:28-29). The humble and crushed will listen (receptive) to the Spirit's call on person's heart and mind (Revelation 3:20; John 6:44-45) to surrender their lives to Jesus as Lord as the Gospel is preached. I think that is why Lord Jesus repeatedly states: "To those who have ears, let him hear" (Matthew 11:15; Mark 4:9; Luke 8:8; Luke 14:35; Revelation 2:7; 17, 29; Revelation 3:6, 13. 22; Revelation 13:9). Does this mean a person is totally unable to repent and put their faith in Lord Jesus accept by the Gospel and the convicting power of the Spirit calling to them? The Scriptures do not actually state it that way in those words, just as God's Word does not actually state that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the one God, but in either case, that is what I am understanding by reading the context of the Scriptures.
Steve, you say that in order for a person to be saved they must act upon belief in the gospel, have repentance, turn from the old master, submit one's life to the Lord, commit to, listen to and follow. All of these are works. However, Jesus promises that " he who believes in Me has eternal life " ( John 6 :47 ) I urge you to believe, be convinced that the testimony of Jesus is true. Believe in Jesus for eternal life ! If you do , then , being a born again child of God you can commit, listen to and follow Jesus in discipleship.
@@grizz4489 Hi grizz4489. "Believe," "Believes," "Faith" is not a magic word that has no meaning. I do not say of myself, but the Scriptures define a true Gospel faith that is manifested by repentance, turning from sin, and then putting one's faith in Jesus as their Lord. In fact, that is what Baptism represents - dying with Christ to from serving sin, and rising with Christ to a new life of following him (Romans 6; Colossians 3:1-17). Acts 20:20-21 (WEB) 20 … I didn’t shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death. 2 Peter 3:9 (WEB) 9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Regeneration, which is to pass from death to life (2 Corinthians 1:9-10), and is by faith: John 5:24 (WEB) “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears {{listens to}} my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life [regeneration]. Regeneration is the light of life (Ephesians 5:8) by faith evidenced by following Lord Jesus: John 8:12 (WEB) “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the {{light of life}}.” [The light of life is regeneration and is God’s Work in those who follow Lord Jesus.] Regeneration is associated with being Children of God. We are children of God by faith: Galatians 3:26 (EWEB) For you are all children of God, {{through faith}} in Christ Jesus. Regeneration is to receive God’s Spirit AFTER a person believes and becomes a child of God: Galatians 4:6 (WEB) And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!” Regeneration - Spiritual Life - is by the Spirit of Christ dwelling IN US: Romans 8:10-11 (EWEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the {Spirit of Christ}, he is not his. 10 If Christ is IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive [regeneration] because of righteousness. Regeneration is Life by the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us (Romans 8:10-11) - AND the Spirit only indwells us to give us life by faith. Faith is demonstrated by following and obeying Lord Jesus. John 14:15-16 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him. Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. Regeneration: is to “Make Alive (Ephesians 2:1),” and is The Promise to those who believe: Galatians 3:22 (EWEB) 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could Make Alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Regeneration is being “Raised with Christ” (Ephesians 2:6), and is by Faith in God’s Work Colossians 2:12 (EWEB) you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God Regeneration is a new birth, (John 3:8) is by faith (John 3:14-16; John 7:37-39), sowing to the Spirit.
I read very closely, about 3 times. We agree on some things. Are differences are on distinctions. What an unbeliever must do to be born again ( 1st tense salvation ) and how a born again believer, child of God should live ( 2nd tense salvation). I distinctly divide these instead of intertwining them.. One example of our differences..... 2 Pet 3:9 , the word " perish " I understand that to be physical death not spiritual death. Any how, I must say that you were very gracious in your response and what you wrote was well written, I do appreciate that. Have a blessed day !
@@grizz4489 Using your terminology, the "1st tense of salvation" is the faith by which the "2nd tense of salvation" becomes a reality. We are not saved by faith plus works. We are saved by faith alone through grace alone. However, a genuine Faith in includes repentance - a commitment to renounce the old master of sin, and then to follow Lord Jesus. That is the Gospel Faith that is repeated throughout the Four Gospel accounts, and by all the Epistles, and also Revelations, before one work is ever done. This act of faith is BEFORE one work is ever done. Therefore, if the faith you profess is a genuine Gospel Faith, then you are now a disciple of Lord Jesus (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 11:26) who will live out his faith - crucified to fleshly passions, and following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love. These are the faithful whom the Spirit indwells to give their faith the victory over sin and of death, but only as the believer continues in the faith by which the Spirit indwelt him, living by the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4 (EWEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, {{{who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit}}}. Now, if this Christian remains in the faith, then the Spirit will continue to lead him in that new life of sanctification. These are the ones who belong to Christ. Galatians 5:24-25 (EWEB) 24 Those who {{{belong to Christ}}} have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we [believers] live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let no one be deceived, because all God's promises and guarantees are for those who believe, which is actually to love Lord Jesus. The true Christian remains in The Faith to the end manifested by walking in the Spirit into a sanctified life of righteousness and love. Galatians 5:19-25 (EWEB) 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who {{{belong to Christ}}} have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. The Spirit will only give eternal life to the Christian who continues in the Faith evidenced by sowing to the Spirit without giving up. Galatians 6:7-9 (EWEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{from the Spirit}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{us}} not be weary in doing good, for {{we}} will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up. Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have an obligation - but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Isn't that what sanctification means? Isn’t that what faith is - a sanctified life onto God? 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (EWEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you [the believer] abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.
The gospel of John is the only book in the N.T written to unbelievers and the purpose of it is to tell people how to have eternal life. The only condition according to the gospel of John, is to believe in Jesus. Repentance is not part of faith. Repentance is never even mentioned in the gospel of John. If it were necessary it would have been mentioned. John 3:16 has one condition for eternal life.... John 5:24 ; 6:47 ; 11:26,27; 20:31 ; ect.... Also, continual belief, or continual faith in Jesus is not a condition for the free gift of eternal life. Continual faith is necessary for assurance of salvation.
Just humbly thinking outloud on this one ...I write this in contrast to the Arminian type of view of total depravity/total inability... Does the Holy Spirit actually enable us or is it that we are his creation therefor the Creator knows exactly how to woo, how to love,how to draw, how to entice,how to influence our thoughts,our circumstaces,our surroundings...We are His image barers,as imagers we are born enabled to respond,born with the knowledge of good and evil,ability to choose. I may be saying this a little too poetic for some but I really do see it as the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come (why do we use the word enabling/enabled?)and the only way to be free from that is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his death and burial and Resurrection but maybe we are already born enabled and the active activity of the Holy Spirit (the paraklete) on peoples hearts,minds,providential workings, ultimately helps people come to saving faith in Jesus Christ but it's not an enabling because of being totally depraved from birth. ???
That's a point I was trying to make . I believe THE HOLY SPIRIT works in one coming to CHRIST but not irresistibly. It kinda surprised me at the number of folks who replied saying that THE HOLY SPIRIT didn't participate at all in one coming to salvation until after they believe but I can't see where that's a biblical assertion. I believe HE woos and attracts , even the forbidden word " draws " but HE doesn't drag irresistibly or everyone would be saved . GOD bless
Dr. Leighton Flowers, your argument is that total inability cannot be proven by Scripture to be a condition from birth; however, a baby is totally unable to believe in the Gospel, or in Lord Jesus as their Savior and Lord. Babies do not even understand what sin or righteousness are that that point. However, all are born with a sinful nature - made sin by being Adam's descendants in the flesh. Romans 5:18-19 (WEB) 18 So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous. We are all born in Adam's image, in that, we are made sinners as children of Adam, and all are condemned in Adam. In addition, Satan is at work supernaturally in the world to prevent people from responding to the Gospel. God is at work too by His Gospel and the Spirit - both working together to convict, call, and draw those sinners who are receptive (the humble) to respond in repentance and faith. That is the universal prevenient grace of God to call sinners to himself.
Babies do not understand but they will be able to understand . They are unable but will become able to recieve the truth or suppress the truth. One leads to salvation the other to reprobation
@@gwine2nine52 I agree; however, God sent the Spirit to earth, after he rose to heaven, to convict the world. By the Spirit, Lord Jesus now knocks on the hearts of sinners (Revelation 3:20). If a sinner opens the door to him who knocks, then he will enter to be with him. This Spirit, therefore, works with the Gospel Word, to universally call all people to Christ. Those who are receptive (the humble and crushed in spirit: Psalms 34:18; Isaiah 61:1-2) will be taught by God (John 6:43-45). Therefore, I believe the universal work of the Spirit works with the Word to make the Gospel living and active in the hearts of those who are receptive (the humble) to make the Gospel personal to them.
I think your understanding of Romans five is perhaps assuming a lack of nuance. The transition you're using makes it sound very simple, and hardline but I don't think it necessarily is. Condemnation comes to people, as a result of Adam's sin. Sure, but it would be a massive assumption to say that necessarily means that people are counted guilty for Adam's sin. Not only is that not what the verse says (although in isolation it's within the semantic range) but that is also blatantly against other clear scriptural teachings, like Ezekiel 18 when God says it's wrong to do that. Is it not much more likely that verse 18 is in the context of verse 12 "because all sinned" Not that all were counted as sinful or guilty due to the sin of their forefather, but that as a result of Adam introducing sin and temptation into the world, all do (like Adam when he was tempted) give in to that by their own free will, and sin. Therefore through Adam's first sin introducing sin into the world (Romans 5:12) all become sinners themselves, and are therefore condemned.
@@samuelbarns118 You are presuming "guilt" into the topic when guilt was not even discussed. We are guilty of our own sins before God, but as the Scripture states, we are all condemned in Adam, made to be sinners. Romans 5:18-19 (WEB) 18 So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous. Question: Those who believe in Lord Jesus, in the eternal kingdom of God, will the faithful be made righteous? Answer: Yes, they will. There is no sin in the eternal kingdom of God; the faithful will be made to be holy in the eternal state through Christ Jesus the second Adam. Likewise, in Adam, all his offspring are condemned in him, made to be sinners. Just accept what the Scriptures plainly state without trying to reinterpret, or change the wording, of plain to understand verses so they fit your bias.
@@steventhompson3236 "Guilt" here isn't a feeling, it's a legal state. By definition if you are held responsible for someone else's transgression, you are considered "guilty" of it. Guilt is defined as "the fact of having committed a specified or implied offence or crime." This is exactly what you're saying applies to the descendants of Adam, regarding his sin, is it not? If not then please explain. But otherwise, I think you've just misunderstood the terminology.
Thank you for not condemning those you disagree with as I've seen both sides do that.
Leigh ton, it seems as if buying into a system can cause us to deny some very basic biblical truths in order to make everything fit. For example John 3:16 which is one of the most basic truths in scripture can’t mean what we’ve always understood it to mean, or because of the system we can longer understand the major differences between the power of the Bible and the lie of the Quran. “The power of God to salvation” (which is the gospel) is now some mystical thing that we can’t understand or respond to. To me although there is benefit from understanding theology systematically, it becomes a danger when we start to deny very basic biblical truths in order to make a system (and all its logical inferences) all coherently fit together.
🎯
Continuing... We don't need any 'ism' or follow any man (Lutheranism, Calvinism, etc)... Interestingly, the very early church was much more focused upon their actions (deeds) than doctrinal statements. Read the Book of James from the early Jerusalem church.
This is called "Propositional tyranny" and it dominates the modern church. 🙏
I'd like to see Leighton dialogue with a Wesleyan - maybe Ben Witherington, IIII?
I’m a little confused as I always believed that the HS is the reason people come to Christ when they hear the word due to conviction. But if I can come on my own then why need the HS.
But if I do need the HS to do the working in me of conviction, then I can’t come on my own.
Some one help me here.
I think this speaks into the part where Brian brings in about Satan and demons....
Matt 13:NLT
18“Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds: 19The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts. 20The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy. 21But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word. 22The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced. 23The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”
Why would God create every human throughout history completely unable to freely believe his plainly revealed Word? It's nonsense.
Because He only wanted a few of us and the rest are useless
This fellow misses the obvious. We resist and avoid the small gate and narrow strait path because of the (perceived) DIFFICULTY of squeezing ourselves through the GATE and traveling on the difficult way. Faith in Christ involves losing our lives for Him
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever LOSES HIS LIFE for My sake will find it
(Matthew 10:39)
The word LOSE is ἀπολέσας means " (has) SUFFERED THE LOSS OF OUR LIVES FOR HIM" This is speaking of - the particular time when we ceased to OWN and POSSESS our soul .
Conviction seems impossibly hard. The unattainable holiness of Christ is set in contrast to our sinfulness. After we trust Christ we receive the Spirit who shows us that with His help we can walk with Him.
So Brother Leighton you are saying by the word “provisionism” that you are not of Calvin, or Arminian, but of Christ (1 Corinthians 1:12)? Couldn’t help it Brother😂!
"evanescent" - vanishing.
The working or action of THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary for one to be convicted of their sin and need for CHRIST to be saved, but THE HOLY SPIRIT doesn't make HIMSELF irresistible, HE doesn't force HIMSELF on us or everyone would be saved.
Where does it say that the Holy Spirit is the only source of conviction?
@brotherjohnreid9473 so you don't believe that the work of THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary to bring someone to salvation? You actually believe that one can come to GOD without THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH convicting them ? I'm an anticalvinist, but I don't let that cause me to deny the truth of scripture by overreacting to their false claims of irresistible salvation .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421so you don’t believe when shaping your theology you ought to be faithful to the Biblical text?
The convicting work of the Holy Spirit is a worldwide reality, but it is not the only source of conviction, and conviction does not equal drawing.
If you can show me otherwise in the Bible, I’ll change my mind.
@@brotherjohnreid9473 you've gone off tge deep end . I never said anything about conviction meaning drawing , although it can mean that , just not irresistibly. I am staying loyal to the text but it seems you aren't actually. You never did answer my question . My question was , do you believe one can be convicted of their sins and need for CHRIST without the conviction of THE HOLY SPIRIT ? The gospel itself is convicting but because THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH works through the gospel and other things as well . Please just answer my question my friend.
Paul made the point that he would not have known sin was sin until he read the law and the law told him sin was sin.
Satan's ability to blind a dead man sounds like a bad Chick Norris joke.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💥💥 THAT is so good , words fail me.(which doesn't often happen)
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Didn't think many would get it 👍😆
I'm sure glad I found your channel. For years I was tormented believing I could be non elect. Can you imagine loving God and desiring to be saved and not accepted by God. That is so horrible to believe that. Thank you Leighton what a burden lifted.
I dont agree with calvinism but I want to say to you, and to the people that cliked on the thumbs up, You mentioned "tormented" and "believing" then "I could be" then "Non-Elect" in the same sentence and not to nit pick on your sentence but it sounds messy.
the Word says that we should analyze ourselves to see if we are in the faith. The One that gives assurance is God through Christ, when we believe through faith; we accept the free gift of salvation that is given by Grace. The Holy Spirit seals us, and as we study His Word, that assurance grows strong and strong. This is what I believe "faith to faith" is (I could be wrong)
All this happens whether you believe in Calvinism or not, I believe that Calvinist make that decision after they are saved and they emotionally pick sides and then twist scriptures to satisfy that.
Respecftlly.
the non elect do not even worry about such things...
10:18 ... Leighton, with all due respect, don't give him any 'quarter' on this. Dr. Abasciano does, in fact, call it 'mystical'. It is not... but he definitely uses that term in a subtle pejorative way to undermine his opponent/you. He is obviously playing with his 'mental blocks'. In order to defend his premise he, like all ideologues, (no offense intended), must 'dance' around the facts that their paradigm prevail.
Learning so much from these analysis vids and dialogues. I think shifting from one position to another has advantages in that it makes you more aware and willing to ask hard questions as well as to see WHY people say what they say.
I do believe the Holy Spirit (who is a person) is always working when His word and the gospel is proclaimed-- they are God breathed words and they are often given through people with the indwelling Spirit. What people do with that is on them. Biblical scholars can be believers or unbelievers. The difference is in the attitude toward what they are studying.
Is my proclamation more powerful when I pray for HIs help? I think the bible would support that. Is it insufficient if I did not and said the same words? I don't believe so. The truth is the truth.
The last question can't be answered in that any message is the sum of three parts, the speaker, the message and the hearer. But, I commend you for placing the power in the Gospel itself:
"I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God..."
the LOTR - analogy is great!
Elves were taken by the Dark Lord and twisted and made into Orcs. Saruman later bred another, more powerful version of orcs, the Uruk-Hai.
The evil orcs were from the beginning good elves, so the evil in Tolkien´s world is something good that has been corrupted.
Of course you are more blameworthy if you have the capacity to choose otherwise. Jesus makes this point about knowledge, that a servant that knows his masters will deserves a harsher punishment. The more you are given, the greater the responsibility in biblical justice.
I wonder if the reason Chris Date (who I love) can´t relate to this is that he has as a calvinist trained himself to separate the actions from the causes, since he believes that man is responsible for the evil even if God decreed it.
The Gospel is the POWER of salvation ...it is THE power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. For those who are not willing to believe it doesn't matter, because "The righteous shall live by faith. " Rom.1:16.
Amen RL. Faith comes by hearing, when the Hearing is the Divinely Inspired Word of God... personified by Jesus, the Logos of God. That's why 👿 works so hard to thwart & twist it to people. He started with the first two created "Hath God indeed said???"
I remember having this question when Brian said this in your debate. Hearing him say it again now reminds me to ask this question. At around the 36 minute mark he posits that there is Scripture saying man cannot respond rightly and cannot believe/ understand the Gospel without God doing something to our hearts.
What Scripture says that?
It doesn't exist... 🙏
The problem with Brian‘s statement is like most Augustine, determinism beliefs, there’s a bit of truth mixed in with the purposely unclear teaching.
Of course, God changes our hearts, of course, the Holy Spirit woos us, but what they really are saying is that God has determined, by his own decree to judge individuals for not doing something he designed them unable to do.
There is not a single anti-freewiller that has ever explained Grace, love, sin and choice in a world without free will ✌🏼👍🏻
Your debater says something to the effect "do we believe that the word of God is mystical in some way to cause a reaction different to reading the koran." The answer, it would seem should be, "What does the word of God say about the word of God?" That answer doesn't require a name given to it. The answer is what the word of God "says." First, the gospel is the POWER OF GOD FOR SALVATION to everyone who believes." (Rom 1:16). God's word is different because it is a living thing and it is active. It has abilities that no other word has (Heb 3:12). God Himself declares that His word that goes forth from his mouth shall NOT return to Him empty without accomplishing what He desires and without succeeding in the matter for which He sent it (Isaiah 55:10,11) All Scripture is "inspired"...it is "God-breathed." God's "breath" is in all Scripture. This is why it is living. Adam himself became a "living being" because God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life." (Gen 2:7).
Additionally toward what some Arminians say that God gives to each person a measure of faith. There is only 1 verse in Scripture which states "a measure of faith." It's found in Romans 12:3. The context surrounding this text is that God gives to each believer a measure of faith regarding their spiritual gift or gifts. You can't yank it from it's context and apply it to salvation or pre-salvation when it isn't addressing salvation. The instruction beginning in Romans 12 is given to those who are already believers.
thank you for producing your content. I use it a lot to show people what I believe about soteriology. You represent my beliefs and the correct biblical doctrine very well. God bless.
I don't know how you can claim that the bible doesn't teach the depravity of man romans 6:17 says man is a slave of sin. Only thru His prevenient grace God brings us to the place where faith is possible by the preaching of the word when sinners hear the word at that moment they are encounter with God and at that moment they can either accept or reject Paul clearly said that the Gospel is God's Dynamite for the salvation of those who believe that is why is so important for the church to preach so sinners can come to the place of being able to accept the Gospel message. God is the one who initiates our salvation but we have the responsibility to respond we are not so dead as not being able to respond to God's calling we just can't come when we feel to. Gods prevenient grace is offered to all humans thru the Gospel call. My problem with some of your logic is when you say that if we can accept any other truth why can't we accept the Gospel truth well it is because the Gospel message is the one truth or message that we are naturally inclined to oppose any other world view or belief is not in contradiction to our spiritual condition therefore we can easily believe anything we want to believe in.
Not saying I agree with everything ur saying but you definitely makes a good points
Listening to people defending total inability is frustrating. He says, because of our sin, we are inclined to accept lies and reject the truth. But while I am inclined to avoid touching dog poop, I am incapable of touching the moon. Its not total inclination. Its total inability. Don't claim one is true by describing the other.
I am not a good Christian, apparently, because I don't consider Adam's sin to be anything more than a perfectly understandable error in judgment about a Being he knew virtually nothing about. Almost literally "born yesterday", with no life experience, no History, no Book, and no knowledge about what he himself was (a human being), let alone about a Being vastly more intelligent and knowledgeable than himself.
I see no reason for God to be punishing people for thousands of years because that man was gullible. I believe God knew full well that he would be gullible under such circumstances, and that what we are seeing in the text is for us to consider carefully. Not for us to judge Adam and Eve by, and to blame for being what God made them to be (an example for us to consider carefully). I don't think He was even a little bit surprised, or even disappointed by what happened. I don't believe there was any alternate Plan based on them somehow being cognizant of all sorts of things we can now be cognizant of, because the Plan was to make us cognizant of those things Adam couldn't have been.
To me (nobody special) it is childish to think mankind is being punished for Adam's sin.
Believe it or not, I agree with you.
Been thinking about this for a while now.
I can remember the first time I disobeyed my own conscience when, at around 7 or 8 years of age I stole some candy from a store.
I was taught not to steal so I knew it to he wrong.
But I did it anyway.
The shameful, pain I felt in my guts was horrible.
I was mortified
I could see where Eve might have done the same.
She knew the consequence, but when listing the thought process she went through, notice she didn't consider it.
It was delightful to look upon, good for food and to make her wise.
So, yeah. I can see truth in this.
I haven't fully studied this out in scripture so I'm not 100% yet.
But it's food for thought to he sure
@@shredhed572 - "She knew the consequence, but when listing the thought process she went through, notice she didn't consider it."
I'm not sure she did "know" the consequences. She had been warned by that first "Person" she met, that they would surely die, but I'm not sure they even knew what that really meant, let alone that the warner was truly trustworthy. I suspect many people are "reading" what they now know, into the minds of those newbies. And I believe that "what is the nature of God?", what is He really like and up to, is what the Book is about/for us to consider.
And what I noticed also, along the lines of what you noticed/mentioned, is that they didn't hesitate so they could ask that first Person about what this other person had told them was His nature and what He was up to. That much I can sort of "blame them" for, in some sense, but even that is probably me reading into their minds what I now know. (They were new and ignorant people.)
His view (the arminianin scholar) of total inability and how previenant grace overcomes it, is not the classical arminian or most definitely not the wesleyan view.
We cannot say all arminian or weslyan theologians think this way. We all don't agree with Roger Oslen's term "partial regeneration" either.
The classical view is the work of Christ on the cross works proleptically backwards and forwards throughout time giving a measure of grace to all humanity nullifying total depravity.
It's because of PG, Abel was able to please God, it's because of PG, anyone from Genesis to a baby born today has a God freed will to chose to work with His grace and not be bound to the sinful nature.
This guy is technically a one point calvinist. The classical view is we are born with a sinful nature and into total depravity but because of the grace of God, we are able to make decisions and be able to respond to His grace.
This grace can be resisted over time and you can be hardened over time.
His argument brother is not all of our arguments and he doesn't represent all of us who hold to a weslyan or classical arminian view.
Also Wesley like myself believed guilt was wiped away by the cross as well. Working backward and forwards.
That sounds like provisionism unless I've misunderstood what you've said . If I have, can you please explain the difference between what Leighton teaches and what you've said here . Thank you . GOD bless
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 That is my point. Leighton argues with guys in the arminianin camp that are closer to calvinist.
Not all arminianin or weslyan thinkers hold to the same view.
I agree with provisionism for the most part although the acrostic is completely unnecessary and I mean that with respect and humility.
The difference between what my weslyan view of depravity and provisionism is that PG goes all the way back to the beginning and clears the effects of the fall and so called OG guilt.
Now human beings have been supernaturally given grace to do good and to hear from God but you have to cooperate with that grace and God always makes the first moving in giving the grace and that grace can be resisted.
I don't want to misrepresent Dr. Flowers but I'm pretty sure he doesn't hold to that view.
@richardwashington5911 Thank you . I know that Leighton believes that GOD has given all men grace and I know that he believes that GOD is the first mover thriugh the gospel and in that THE HOLY SPIRIT is convicting the world of sin and HIS work has to take place for one to come to salvation but HIS work or action isn't irresistible in Leighton's view or mine either. I believe personally that THE work or action OF THE HOLY SPIRIT is necessary for one to be convicted of their sin and their need for CHRIST but it's not an irresistible conviction unto salvation . THE HOLY SPIRIT doesn't force HIMSELF, HE doesn't make HIMSELF irresistible or everyone would be saved .
@richardwashington5911 also, at the beginning of the video, Leighton stated that this guy doesn't hold to the classic Wesleyan view and pointed out some of the differences .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Looks like we agree brother. This is why I commented on his video. I don't want him creating a strawman or some false belief that some of us who are not provisionist do not agree with him on mostly everything. Even if we define and apply grace differently.
There doesn't need to be more division in the body but unity. It's almost like there is an underlying desire to bring everyone over to one side instead of just getting along and agreeing with what we have in common. Then we realize we are actually closer than it seems.
One man's view isn't the entire group!
Good conversation. The Bible is not mystical, but it is powerful and it is alive. That must be acknowledged. The Bible itself claims to be alive and it claims the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Those things must be acknowledged and dealt with.
Only provisionism deals with those claims.
There are sufficient scriptures to show that the Arminians are right. First, John 16:7-11. While I would say that prevenient grace is not necessary, co-venient is. That is, the spirit is always moving wherever the word is proclaimed, even if that word is proclaimed with wrong motives, Philippians 1.
This passage in John says that the spirit is necessary to understand righteousness and sin and the foundation of judgment.
1 Cor. 1:22-24 indicate there are people, both Jew and Greek, hearing the gospel, but in verse 24 there is a required call to respond. It wasn't enough to hear the gospel, but there had to be a call upon the heart.
In the same epistle, it says that Paul planted, Apollos watered but God gave the increase. This makes no sense unless there is a necessary work of God to bring the person to faith.
The use of modern apologetics is problematic at best. If one looks at the apologetics in the book of acts, the apostles quoted Old Testament scripture and then required the people to believe it or not. For instance, when the Jews denied Paul's teaching, he didn't try to use apologetics like we would. Rather, he quoted Isaiah six and walked away. He walked away because he knew from the evidence that the spirit of God wasn't getting through to those hardened hearts. The defense of the proclaimed faith is the quotation of Old Testament scripture. There is one, what we might call extra biblical, Apologetic given in 1 Corinthians 15. But this apologetic is not like modern apologetics, which try to come up with enough evidence to say the Bible is probably true, Jesus is probably the savior. No, Paul said there were over 500 eyewitnesses that his readers could go to And get direct proof of the resurrection, Eyewitness proof. No one can give eyewitness proof today, which means our modern apologetics are inferior and ultimately use the wisdom of men to try to convert, rather than save, people. The reason the apostles used scripture apologetics is because faith comes by hearing the word of God, not by the wisdom of the world in convincing people that we are right. First Corinthians 1 refutes that.
It makes sense that people can read, understand, and choose to accept any other writings, including any other scriptures, simply by studying and considering them. When people take this approach with religions and philosophies, they come to a conclusion as to what is most likely the best to follow in this life. And this is done with Christianity also. There are professed Christians who follow Christianity to some extent because they were raised to think it was true, or because after doing a comparison, they thought it the best religion to follow. This is what modern apologetics accomplish. But Christian faith comes specifically by hearing the word of God. And because man has a sin corruption, he has a animosity to God as he is and to the truth as God proclaims it. This holy scriptures are different from all the writings and other scriptures because it is the truth, and man has an innate animosity against the true God just as he is and against the truth just as it is. As shown above, with some passages, the spirit of God must convict the heart and conscience, and must bring the increase of faith.
I have not finished listening to this video. Having listened to part of this and another video earlier, I found the provisionist view fully untenable, while I also believe that the classical Arminian view is also untenable.
Also, John 6:44, similar to 1 Corinthians 1, doesn't make sense if we think it to be merely the proclamation of the word of God that draws. Israel had the word of God proclaimed for many centuries, and Jesus was then proclaiming it. And in the midst of that, Jesus says that no one can come to him unless the father draws them. The context is not about human beings who have never heard the holy scriptures at all. The context is about why people (everyone within a Jewish context, and many non-jews, if not all non-Jews that had any affiliation with Israel) were not converting after hearing the word of God; that is, something more than the word was needed for those hearing it, and that is the drawing of God. That drawing is explained in the passages above that I have given.
Also, Acts 16:14.
Trying to show grace to Brian I’d encourage him to prepare better he’s difficult to follow. Filler words don’t help his case.
To be spiritually dead in sin and trespasses is different from being physically dead. There are still many things we could do spiritually dead that we cannot do physically dead. To be physically dead is a picture that God uses to show that God must be involved in the conversion process
The Cain and Abel story refutes total inability, because no evidence in scripture supports an intervention by God, to cause Abel to obey.
What more do we need for evidence, that human nature did not change after the "fall?"
Abel, obeyed. Cain did not.
The truth is that from the beginning to the present day human nature, as created by God, has not changed.
Having presented my view at least a dozen times, no Calvinist has been able to support their view, or to refute mine, in light of Cain and Abel.
The calvinist response is always to present, a long list of scripture.
No. The inclination of human nature is to pursue desire, a God created feature of humans, serving several positive purposes.
God created a human, who created a hammer to drive nails, to satisfy our desire to drive nails. But the creator of humans, and the creator of the hammer did not prevent the desire to smash the head of another in order to kill them.
Cain pursued his desire.
Abel pursued his desire.
Understand desire, and every decision of humans from Adam and Eve, to the 2023 present, makes sense.
No, we are not born with sin; we are born with desire, a humab characteristic created by God.
Even Leighton's view of humans is not supported by scripture. He is mostly correct but not completely.
My desire to know truth, to know God, to investigate what God wants from me will influence my choices.
Another person's desire to acheive power, wealth and control will influence their choices
2 different desires, producing 2 different outcomes.
So on your view of desire and human beings, what is the role of regeneration in a persons life? It seems to me that there is no role for the Holy Spirit to make hearts of stone into hearts of clay, or to take up residence in the hearts of man. Should we expect the Lord to change people when they believe the gospel? What does it mean to be reborn on your view?
@@DMilbury Those regenerated are those who DESIRE to be saved and ACCEPT the conditions of salvation. What are those conditions? Belief that J.C is our Lord and savior; repenting of current and past sins;
Repentance means a desire to reject all sin, and maintain a commitment to avoid or reject sin.
This does not mean we can be successful on our own. Hebrews makes clear that salvation is conditional on the part we are to play: repentance.
@@DMilbury Not all beliefs require an action from us.
The belief that the sun raises in the east, and sets in the west, could be true or false, but either way, that belief requires NO action from us.
To be saved, does require 2 things from us: belief (faith in its truth, including promises), and our repentance. Repentance is an ongoing action our entire Christian life.
Please read every word in the Webster definition of repent:
1. To amend or resolve toamend one's life as a result if contrition for one's sin.
2. To change one's mind with regard to past or intended action, conduct, etc., on account of regret or dissatisfaction.
3. To feel regret, contrition or compunction for what one has done, or omitted to do.
There are words in the definition, that indicate what repentance would entail in the life of a Christian.
In scripture, repentance does not involve the H.S., where as avoidance of sin does.
Over and over scripture warns, "Control your desires."
Depending on the strength of a sinful desire, we may need the H.S.
One recovering alcoholic may need the H.S. to stay out of a bar; another recovering alcoholic may not... but will require the assistance of the H.S. to overcome a different sinful desire.
My original comment on desire stands. Not one person can refute the evidence I presented in the story of Cain and Abel.
The human soul did not change after the "fall."
Human nature (inclinations/desires) did not change after the
" fall."
Human behavior did not change after the "fall."
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 The human heart has the capacity for wickedness. Agreed.
Genesis 2:7-24 reveals activities over a time period, from the moment of Adam's creation, through the creation of Eve. At verse 16 God gives a command. Any indication in those verses 7-24 of wickedness of Adam or Eve? No.
In fact there was no Eve when the command, 16-17 was given. Where in verses 7-24 is human wickedness indicated? So in the period of time after Adam and Eve were created, they were compliant and obedient. Not until Genesis 3: 6 does the first act of human disobedience occur.....where Eve followed her desire for something other than God.
As to all the other scriptures you cited, each speaks to specific actions of either a specific group or humankind. The fact that God spared Noah and his family from death by the flood proves that humans can make virtuous decisions.....while others do not.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 No, untrue. ONLY the moment Adam and Eve disobed, he/she committed an evil act or wickedness.
The question you should be asking is how was THEIR action possible if God created creatures only capable of good decisions?
Again, it is the human characteristic of desire, CREATED by God that results in obedience or disobedience.
Abraham, Moses, Noah and others DESIRED to obey God....yet we see those same men following their earthly desires. David is a good example.
Your ideas are not coming from scripture, nor can your philosophy of human wickedness, be supported in scripture, e.g., Abel's desire to obey and please God. And Cain's desire to disobey. Cain was unwilling to put in the effort to give God, Cain's best.
All sin is rooted in desire.
All good is rooted in desire.
On the issue of whether people who aren't born again are or are not able to believe the ideas stated in the bible - consider this - the bible speaks to every happening under the sun! Therefore if people are prevented from believing biblical truth until they are born again it would mean they weren't capable of thinking straight about any situation or activity on earth which has any association with relational/spiritual wisdom.
I make the same point to those who argue that Chistians should not be involved in politics. Politics is about everything that matters - relationships, money, the order of society, the environment - everything! If Christianity has nothing to do with politics then it has nothing to say about anything.
DW: Consider the possibility that the 'T" in Calvinism's TULIP functions as a lie of omission.
A lie of omission is communication designed to mislead - by omitting critical facts which if not omitted would not mislead.
In the case of Calvinism's TULIP - the "T" is designed to strategically omit the critical fact - that per the underlying doctrine - the state of nature - including every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - is 100% meticulously predestined. And at any nano-second in time - the state of man's nature cannot possibly be other than what it was decreed to infallibly be.
The Calvinist uses the "T" in his TULIP to FALSELY attribute man's abilities/inabilities to the state of his nature - and thus attribute his eternal destiny to the state of his nature. When the TRUTH is - both the state of man's nature - at every nano-second in time - as well as man's eternal destiny - are FIXED by infallible decree before man is created.
And man has NO SAY and NO CHOICE in the matter of anything.
The Calvinist knows - that if he tells the TRUTH about his doctrine - the average Bible reader will reject it.
So he created the TULIP as a marketing tool designed to *OBFUSCATE* the parts of his doctrine which he knows people are going to reject.
It seems the Arminianists say to the Calvinists: Whoa, hold on there, you can't blame God for everything (complete and total determinism), he's only to blame for these things (a much smaller list of determinism). Both seem to engage in what amounts to blame shifting. They cry and whine that God made them this or that way, such that they are now, somehow, not blameworthy. All their nonsensical theology and blame shifting comes from the influence of Gnostic philosophy on western thought. Provisionalism at least takes the "blame" and puts it where it belongs, at the foot of the wilful sinner. And who among us has not sinned?
Agree 👍
For some reason I'm reminded of romans where Paul quotes Isaiah
"All day long I have held out my hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people."
His hand is extended
He's not making anybody sin, nor accept Him!
Nothing wrong with the rebuttal pace, quality over quantity brother. Thank you for your time
Professing themselves wise became fools
When he was using 2 Corinthians 4:4 to prove total inability and that prevenient grace is needed to lift those blinders enacted by Satan, I think he's ignoring the second half of that verse: "... unless the glorious light of the gospel should shine unto them." It's the gospel that's the "power unto salvation" that allows people to make the choice to remain blind or to open their eyes and see.
I think that given his own terms, brother Flowers is right on, however, prevenient grace might not be defined so narrowly. It can be seen as the grace which precedes the grace (gift) of eternal life, as John puts it:
"...grace for grace..." !
Brian: I guess use of Logos to describe both Jesus and the written word is inconsequential. If the written word was somehow incomplete or incapable then why don’t the NT writers used the Rhema, which can be used to describe PART of what someone said as opposed to the totality someone’s testimony.
An Arminianist usually uses the argument to say the written word is not enough on its own.
25:55 Sorry Leighton, when I see you sip from a stainless steel straw it makes my teeth hurt more than I can explain.
Reminds me of Pulsar: Lost Colony. Now that's a great game!
I agree that people possess the ability believe in the Gospel message; however, believing in the Gospel message (a head knowledge) is something anyone can do, for even the demons believe and shudder.
In contrast to a head belief in Lord Jesus after hearing the Gospel, there are those who are receptive (the humble and crushed) who will act upon that belief by placing their faith in Jesus as Lord. This faith includes repentance, which is a turning from the old master, and now submitting one's life to Lord Jesus whom the believer now commits to listen to and follow. This activity of a person receptive to the Gospel call all occurs before receiving the Spirit to regenerate the believer (Acts 5:32; John 14:21; John 14:23; John 7:37-39).
However, although regeneration occurs after one puts their faith in Lord Jesus, the Spirit works on the hearts and minds (John 1:8-9; John 16:7-12; Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12) of those who hear and are receptive the Gospel - this is what I am understanding as the call of the Spirit on such persons as the Gospel is preached (John 6:44-45; John 16:7-12; Revelation 3:20). Those receptive are the humble and crushed (Psalms 25:8-9; Psalms 34:18-19; Isaiah 61:1-2; Matthew 11:28-29).
The humble and crushed will listen (receptive) to the Spirit's call on person's heart and mind (Revelation 3:20; John 6:44-45) to surrender their lives to Jesus as Lord as the Gospel is preached. I think that is why Lord Jesus repeatedly states: "To those who have ears, let him hear" (Matthew 11:15; Mark 4:9; Luke 8:8; Luke 14:35; Revelation 2:7; 17, 29; Revelation 3:6, 13. 22; Revelation 13:9).
Does this mean a person is totally unable to repent and put their faith in Lord Jesus accept by the Gospel and the convicting power of the Spirit calling to them? The Scriptures do not actually state it that way in those words, just as God's Word does not actually state that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the one God, but in either case, that is what I am understanding by reading the context of the Scriptures.
Steve, you say that in order for a person to be saved they must act upon belief in the gospel, have repentance, turn from the old master, submit one's life to the Lord, commit to, listen to and follow. All of these are works. However, Jesus promises that " he who believes in Me has eternal life " ( John 6 :47 ) I urge you to believe, be convinced that the testimony of Jesus is true. Believe in Jesus for eternal life ! If you do , then , being a born again child of God you can commit, listen to and follow Jesus in discipleship.
@@grizz4489 Hi grizz4489. "Believe," "Believes," "Faith" is not a magic word that has no meaning.
I do not say of myself, but the Scriptures define a true Gospel faith that is manifested by repentance, turning from sin, and then putting one's faith in Jesus as their Lord. In fact, that is what Baptism represents - dying with Christ to from serving sin, and rising with Christ to a new life of following him (Romans 6; Colossians 3:1-17).
Acts 20:20-21 (WEB) 20 … I didn’t shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death.
2 Peter 3:9 (WEB) 9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Regeneration, which is to pass from death to life (2 Corinthians 1:9-10), and is by faith:
John 5:24 (WEB) “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears {{listens to}} my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life [regeneration].
Regeneration is the light of life (Ephesians 5:8) by faith evidenced by following Lord Jesus:
John 8:12 (WEB) “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the {{light of life}}.” [The light of life is regeneration and is God’s Work in those who follow Lord Jesus.]
Regeneration is associated with being Children of God. We are children of God by faith:
Galatians 3:26 (EWEB) For you are all children of God, {{through faith}} in Christ Jesus.
Regeneration is to receive God’s Spirit AFTER a person believes and becomes a child of God:
Galatians 4:6 (WEB) And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!”
Regeneration - Spiritual Life - is by the Spirit of Christ dwelling IN US:
Romans 8:10-11 (EWEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the {Spirit of Christ}, he is not his. 10 If Christ is IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive [regeneration] because of righteousness.
Regeneration is Life by the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us (Romans 8:10-11) - AND the Spirit only indwells us to give us life by faith. Faith is demonstrated by following and obeying Lord Jesus.
John 14:15-16 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth
John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.
Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.
Regeneration: is to “Make Alive (Ephesians 2:1),” and is The Promise to those who believe:
Galatians 3:22 (EWEB) 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could Make Alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Regeneration is being “Raised with Christ” (Ephesians 2:6), and is by Faith in God’s Work
Colossians 2:12 (EWEB) you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God
Regeneration is a new birth, (John 3:8) is by faith (John 3:14-16; John 7:37-39), sowing to the Spirit.
I read very closely, about 3 times. We agree on some things. Are differences are on distinctions. What an unbeliever must do to be born again ( 1st tense salvation ) and how a born again believer, child of God should live ( 2nd tense salvation). I distinctly divide these instead of intertwining them.. One example of our differences..... 2 Pet 3:9 , the word " perish " I understand that to be physical death not spiritual death. Any how, I must say that you were very gracious in your response and what you wrote was well written, I do appreciate that. Have a blessed day !
@@grizz4489 Using your terminology, the "1st tense of salvation" is the faith by which the "2nd tense of salvation" becomes a reality.
We are not saved by faith plus works. We are saved by faith alone through grace alone.
However, a genuine Faith in includes repentance - a commitment to renounce the old master of sin, and then to follow Lord Jesus. That is the Gospel Faith that is repeated throughout the Four Gospel accounts, and by all the Epistles, and also Revelations, before one work is ever done.
This act of faith is BEFORE one work is ever done. Therefore, if the faith you profess is a genuine Gospel Faith, then you are now a disciple of Lord Jesus (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 11:26) who will live out his faith - crucified to fleshly passions, and following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love. These are the faithful whom the Spirit indwells to give their faith the victory over sin and of death, but only as the believer continues in the faith by which the Spirit indwelt him, living by the Spirit.
Romans 8:3-4 (EWEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, {{{who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit}}}.
Now, if this Christian remains in the faith, then the Spirit will continue to lead him in that new life of sanctification. These are the ones who belong to Christ.
Galatians 5:24-25 (EWEB) 24 Those who {{{belong to Christ}}} have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we [believers] live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Let no one be deceived, because all God's promises and guarantees are for those who believe, which is actually to love Lord Jesus. The true Christian remains in The Faith to the end manifested by walking in the Spirit into a sanctified life of righteousness and love.
Galatians 5:19-25 (EWEB) 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who {{{belong to Christ}}} have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
The Spirit will only give eternal life to the Christian who continues in the Faith evidenced by sowing to the Spirit without giving up.
Galatians 6:7-9 (EWEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{from the Spirit}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{us}} not be weary in doing good, for {{we}} will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up.
Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have an obligation - but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Isn't that what sanctification means? Isn’t that what faith is - a sanctified life onto God?
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (EWEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you [the believer] abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.
The gospel of John is the only book in the N.T written to unbelievers and the purpose of it is to tell people how to have eternal life. The only condition according to the gospel of John, is to believe in Jesus. Repentance is not part of faith. Repentance is never even mentioned in the gospel of John. If it were necessary it would have been mentioned. John 3:16 has one condition for eternal life.... John 5:24 ; 6:47 ; 11:26,27; 20:31 ; ect.... Also, continual belief, or continual faith in Jesus is not a condition for the free gift of eternal life. Continual faith is necessary for assurance of salvation.
The teachings such as Augustine's is a "Tare / Darnel" Teaching.
Just humbly thinking outloud on this one ...I write this in contrast to the Arminian type of view of total depravity/total inability... Does the Holy Spirit actually enable us or is it that we are his creation therefor the Creator knows exactly how to woo, how to love,how to draw, how to entice,how to influence our thoughts,our circumstaces,our surroundings...We are His image barers,as imagers we are born enabled to respond,born with the knowledge of good and evil,ability to choose. I may be saying this a little too poetic for some but I really do see it as the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come (why do we use the word enabling/enabled?)and the only way to be free from that is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his death and burial and Resurrection but maybe we are already born enabled and the active activity of the Holy Spirit (the paraklete) on peoples hearts,minds,providential workings, ultimately helps people come to saving faith in Jesus Christ but it's not an enabling because of being totally depraved from birth. ???
That's a point I was trying to make . I believe THE HOLY SPIRIT works in one coming to CHRIST but not irresistibly. It kinda surprised me at the number of folks who replied saying that THE HOLY SPIRIT didn't participate at all in one coming to salvation until after they believe but I can't see where that's a biblical assertion. I believe HE woos and attracts , even the forbidden word " draws " but HE doesn't drag irresistibly or everyone would be saved .
GOD bless
Another great clarifying video!
I think am not getting notification! :(
Same same but different.
Dr. Leighton Flowers, your argument is that total inability cannot be proven by Scripture to be a condition from birth; however, a baby is totally unable to believe in the Gospel, or in Lord Jesus as their Savior and Lord. Babies do not even understand what sin or righteousness are that that point. However, all are born with a sinful nature - made sin by being Adam's descendants in the flesh.
Romans 5:18-19 (WEB) 18 So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous.
We are all born in Adam's image, in that, we are made sinners as children of Adam, and all are condemned in Adam.
In addition, Satan is at work supernaturally in the world to prevent people from responding to the Gospel. God is at work too by His Gospel and the Spirit - both working together to convict, call, and draw those sinners who are receptive (the humble) to respond in repentance and faith. That is the universal prevenient grace of God to call sinners to himself.
Babies do not understand but they will be able to understand . They are unable but will become able to recieve the truth or suppress the truth. One leads to salvation the other to reprobation
@@gwine2nine52 I agree; however, God sent the Spirit to earth, after he rose to heaven, to convict the world. By the Spirit, Lord Jesus now knocks on the hearts of sinners (Revelation 3:20). If a sinner opens the door to him who knocks, then he will enter to be with him. This Spirit, therefore, works with the Gospel Word, to universally call all people to Christ. Those who are receptive (the humble and crushed in spirit: Psalms 34:18; Isaiah 61:1-2) will be taught by God (John 6:43-45). Therefore, I believe the universal work of the Spirit works with the Word to make the Gospel living and active in the hearts of those who are receptive (the humble) to make the Gospel personal to them.
I think your understanding of Romans five is perhaps assuming a lack of nuance.
The transition you're using makes it sound very simple, and hardline but I don't think it necessarily is.
Condemnation comes to people, as a result of Adam's sin.
Sure, but it would be a massive assumption to say that necessarily means that people are counted guilty for Adam's sin.
Not only is that not what the verse says (although in isolation it's within the semantic range) but that is also blatantly against other clear scriptural teachings, like Ezekiel 18 when God says it's wrong to do that.
Is it not much more likely that verse 18 is in the context of verse 12 "because all sinned"
Not that all were counted as sinful or guilty due to the sin of their forefather, but that as a result of Adam introducing sin and temptation into the world, all do (like Adam when he was tempted) give in to that by their own free will, and sin.
Therefore through Adam's first sin introducing sin into the world (Romans 5:12) all become sinners themselves, and are therefore condemned.
@@samuelbarns118 You are presuming "guilt" into the topic when guilt was not even discussed. We are guilty of our own sins before God, but as the Scripture states, we are all condemned in Adam, made to be sinners.
Romans 5:18-19 (WEB) 18 So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous.
Question:
Those who believe in Lord Jesus, in the eternal kingdom of God, will the faithful be made righteous?
Answer:
Yes, they will. There is no sin in the eternal kingdom of God; the faithful will be made to be holy in the eternal state through Christ Jesus the second Adam.
Likewise, in Adam, all his offspring are condemned in him, made to be sinners.
Just accept what the Scriptures plainly state without trying to reinterpret, or change the wording, of plain to understand verses so they fit your bias.
@@steventhompson3236 "Guilt" here isn't a feeling, it's a legal state.
By definition if you are held responsible for someone else's transgression, you are considered "guilty" of it.
Guilt is defined as "the fact of having committed a specified or implied offence or crime."
This is exactly what you're saying applies to the descendants of Adam, regarding his sin, is it not?
If not then please explain.
But otherwise, I think you've just misunderstood the terminology.