Want to vote for "Building Your Battlegroup" when the polls go live tomorrow? A pledge of just $2 on our Patreon, will get you a vote. | www.patreon.com/templininstitute
Excellent Idea though I am curious... how would this concept be employed on the ground level? Such as Fighter Wings, infantry, Artillery, spec ops, tank corps, etc.
@TemplinInstitute You needed a few auxiliary vessels. 1. At least 1 dedicated scrap/tug vessel for scrubbing through the wreckage for intelligence. You never know what some jump computer on a freighter or a repair droid might have stored. So searching through wreckage is an intel gold mine. 2. At least 2 resupply vessels to do trickle down logistics. They feed the bigger ships, which in turn feed the smaller ships. Simple and effective. Security for these is minimal because they only jump in system when the fleet have the system secure. And if the rebels choose to join the part your TTP’s should have your response covered. It might even bait them into a conflict creating a pincer move if your TTP’s are good…
Task Force 89 would be a phenomenal Star Wars show. I wanna see how it was formed after an enterprising captain or commander realizes that the Rebellion's hit and run starfighter tactics will eventually overwhelm an entire military based on the Tarkin doctrine and have to convince the Imperial Admiralty that a new approach is needed. I'd watch the shit out of that show. Hot shot pilots learning that they have to be patient and tactical. Passionate and ambitious young officers learning how to play politics to manipulate leadership to give them what they want. It all sounds very Andor-eque and I want it.
Plus lets not forget getting around the ISB detachments on each ship looking for those straying from imperial doctrine. ISB agent "This is not Imperial Doctrine..." Task Group Commander "The Rebels have read Imperial doctrine and have counters to most of it. We must adapt doctrine to the situation to be more efficient hunters." degenerates to argument... only to be interupted. Darth Vader "Show me.." ISB agent: "My lord this information has not been vetted and the doctrine has not been approved by COMPNOR...agggh" "Show me what you have fund and how. Commander Piet."
This is the kind of quality military scifi content I live for. I am very surprised you didn't include any Lancer-class Frigates or some kind of dedicated anti-star fighter ships.
You beat me to it. I think it wasn't included because afaik it hasn't been shown off in the current visual canon or any of the books I can remember since unfortunately Rogue Squadron isn't fully canon anymore.
I think he didn’t include them for the same reason he didn’t include more Raiders. They don’t have the range to keep up with the fleet without a lot of underway replenishment, and the squadrons of Interceptors and Defenders should already be enough to handle fighters.
I was going to suggest the Starwing/Imperial Missile Boat from the TIE Fighter games, since these are very flexible and powerful jump capable heavy fighters, that could fulfil many of the roles of the TIE Bombers in the taskforce while being far more versatile
I think he didn't include iz because the Lancer is not Canon anymore. I was surprised to see the Victory and Phantom because of that, but then I remembered that the madlads from the Star Wars Armada Tabletop made both Canon again
@@drksideofthewal I think that is why he didn't either, but I think that is a mistake. I think the biggest doctrinal issue of the Empire has always been "our point defense is TIEs and (rarely) other Starfighters." The Interceptor and Defender are no doubt a major step up in evening the odds, but I feel that it is not wise to rely on them wholly for this kind of capital ship defense work, and would caution that it might be wise to keep a few lancers or raiders in reserve if I could. Hell, I've always been sorely tempted to rip out a third of the Turbolasers and Ion Cannons and fit antifighter laser cannons in their place. Even the Mon Cal Cruisers would still be marginally outgunned in that configuration. I am optimistically intrigued about the potential for greater Electronic Warfare as a means of fighting off bombing runs though.
I could see this fleet being Thrawn's pet. His favorite to send on hunting missions. Otherwise it would be sent on suicide missions by jealous admirals under the excuse of the fleet not sticking to Imperial dogma.
Thrawn would have endorsed this fleet. If high command needed convincing that imperial doctrine needed to change, this would’ve been the test bed, and he would have had a hand in putting this together with all his clout. That would probably be why so many Defenders are in the fleet. And the Phantom.
They'd face the suicide missions which this fleet is designed to thrive in completing. All because they don't stick to imperial dogma. then you finish it all off with the fact that they enforce the will of the emperor better than every other fleet in the empire so much more efficiently that they put the rebels on the ropes, and devour pirates, smugglers, and other outlaws and renegades as snacks.
Imagine Tarkin sending them in a mission that they're supposed to fail because they fail to be intimidating enough but then the Task Force 89 just swoops in and pulls a Ceasar being all vini, vidi, vici on the mission and when other imperials just seethe the Commander of the Task Force acts like it was an *expected* regular victory
Without a powerful benefactor protecting the doctrine of the task force it would never work otherwise. It fundamentally flies in the face of the values espoused by the Empire.
In the Thrawn novel Treason, it was revealed that funding for the TIE Defender was moved to the Death Star, but the project itself was not canceled and Tarkin and Vader supported the project. Also it was never explicitly stated that ALL of the funding was diverted. My best guess would be that you'd have no problem getting a squadron or two per ISD.
In the legends timeline, the TIE Defender wasn’t a prototype, it was already completed and part of the imperial navy, though not as prominent as TIE fighters and bombers.
@@addisonwelsh And it wasn't prominent, because it was HIDEOUSLY expensive. There's a quote somewhere that you for every TIE/D, you could buy squadrons, as in plural, THREE, of TIE/LN and that maintenance costs were not much better. The TIE/Avenger is supposed to be right in the middle in regards to cost(each equal to just a halfdozen TIE/LN), so a far more plausible model to use.
Also this is imagined to be assembled ABY so I'm betting a lot of funding started getting directed to lots of other projects after seeing the colossal failure of the DS1.
Here's the thing, the rebels have a small fleet of capital ships and use fighters to combat them. The Tie Defender even though is expensive, they can afford a whole air wing if they cut budget. They literally have 25,000 SD, I'm very sure they could get 50 Tie Defenders and destroy the Rebels in their infancy.
@@warhammer8867 "I'm very sure they could get 50 Tie Defenders" In theory, absolutely. But the empire is literally already always short on forces, because there's always something happening somewhere. So, to get those 50 T/Ds, first you need to set up an actual production line instead of just keep going with handcrafted ones. This is a massive investment. And would at minimum take the greater part of a year, might be several years due to the complexity of the craft. After that, you would get maybe 1-6 T/D produced per week. And getting them faster is not automatically just better. Because what do you do with the production line when you have your 50? If you shut it down, you lose all the worker experience involved and it will take months to restart production. If you keep it running, you get more T/Ds, and you reduce their overall costs slightly, but they will eat up even more of your budget. Compare that with how you already have a functional system that delivers dozens or more likely hundreds of Tie/LN per week AND the pilots for them. And the pricetag for production and maintenance of 50 T/D equals around 1800 T/LN. Ignoring the needed initial factory investment. And the time to create the production line. Or, you keep going with the handcrafted ones, paying 2-3 times as much to build each T/D and build them at a rate of maybe 1/month. From pretty much any point of view, this is a budgetary and logistics nightmare. It's basically a miniature version of the Death star or any of the other absurdly costly special projects of the Empire. Yes, it absolutely CAN be done, but it's going to hurt your wallet horribly. And, can you honestly say that 50 T/D are better than 1800 T/LN?
Thrawn was right as usual: his Defender program would have been highly effective against the Rebels, far more than anything Tarkin wasted the budget on.
Tarkin was a fool, he focused too much on fear than efficiency. The moment the DS1 was destroyed that fear evaporated leaving nothing but hatred for the empire and a victorious rally cry for those rebel scum. Project Stardust was a colossal waste of time, money, personnel and resources.
Got any ideas for a future battlegroup? Here's some ideas I had. Planetary Defense Fleet for a Forge World in Imperium Nihilus | Warhammer 40,000 UNSC Tank Division | Halo Starfleet Exploration Fleet | Star Trek
Defense of corrusant fleet in the clone wars era/ how would the templine institute change the battle of corrusant, possible both for the defending and attacking fleets
Perhaps an armored division for the Empire to shore up the weaknesses of the AT AT? Or a rebel alliance planetary raid task force meant for rapid capture or rescue Maybe a galactic republic fleet meant to deal with slavers?
“Or maybe I introduced Grand Admiral Thrawn to Art Deco and now he owes me a favor.” I love the implications of this sentence, those being: an ISD, one of my favorite fictional ship designs, fitted with one of my favorite architecture periods of all time.
And considering that it’s Thrawn, one of THE most competent and dangerous Imperial officers, you’re bound to take leaps in competence levels and effectiveness.
This seems a documentary on how to create your Homeworld fleet, but for a massive search across the galaxy, having so many assets together would impair the search.
I wonder how well this fleet composition would do in an _Empire at War_ mod? The Outer Rim Yacht Club will show the true tactical might of the Galactic Empire ... in style.
You’d have to go into the files to change the fighter complements. I’m not intimately familiar with AoTR’s Imperial 2 fighter complements. Or if they even have the command Arquitens. Or Cantwell Arrestor cruiser. Basically, would have to do some modifying and adding in stuff that probably isn’t already there
With regard to possible Interdictor redundancy I would equip all vessels with Gravity Well Mines. Sure once activated both sides can't jump to Hyperspace until they deactivate, but Task Force 89's purpose is to hunt down the Rebels. Unless your Commander bites off more than he can chew I think that that would add some tactical flexibility as well. With reconnaissance elements deploying them ahead of the fleet. Trapping the Rebels and allowing your force to perform the Thrawn Pincer manoeuvre. Catching an enemy force entirely by surprise and out of position. With their annihilation or capture coming shortly afterward. Otherwise this is a great makeup for a Rebel Hunting force. Looking forward to seeing the Rebel Raiding Force.
With these, as well, standard TIEs would be more practical as since they don't have hyperdrives anyway, their usefulness against Rebel starfighters would increase substantially.
Interdiction systems take lots of power and their vessels suffer for it (those that have it anyway). Nothing wrong with having multiple ones tactically, but on a strategic front that is one more ship you send that is half a ship or less of otherwise effective combat potentialy. After two interdictors, you are basically just throwing money away on the ships. As far as the lower range mines go, they last a half hour or less, must be deployed, and have limited range. GREAT if setting up an ambush for known enemy assets. But those mines are temporary things otherwise, and likely use some valuable materials, some of which may not be reusable even after recharging and maintaining the ones that are. Edit: the mines low range means that its just a matter of escaping fighters finding a gap too.
@@SephirothRyu That's the beauty of Gravity Well Mines they have their own internal power source. Allowing vessels to carry them without consuming their own internal power supplies. And while it's true that starfighters could find the gaps in the interdiction fields I find it hard to believe that that would happen if the field was deployed in accordance with a predetermined pattern. Additionally that could factor into your strategy leaving only a single exit vector which your fleet is blocking. Leaving the enemy with no choice but to either come to you and get into a battle they can't win. Or flee at sublight speed through the field allowing the task force time to destroy a couple of their ships. Remember the imperial navy doesn't have to destroy all the Rebels in one fell swoop. Attritional Warfare is the name of the game and the rebellion will have a far tougher time acquiring new ships and more importantly experienced crews than the empire.
Would have been interesting if you'd included your 'fleet train' (logistics formation) to your battlegroup. As you touched on, the lifeblood of any combat formation is their logistics trail.
If I was the rebels dealing with this group of "yachts" my response would be to target the convoys before they leave whatever planet they are starting from; because I do not want to attack them where the Yacht Club fights best. Or sabotage the missiles to explode in the magazine. Or even better get some of my ships into the convoy to deliver some friendly marines to make themselves at home in the Imp Star Deuces and X-wings for a hit and run on the shields/Interdictor.
@@homeonegreen9 I'm sure the Templin Institute would consider that if including a fleet train. Covering your weaknesses was a big feature in this video.
Yeah I would expect a few logistics vessels just for this group probably not anything like an Altus class replenishment ship as that thing is more for a sector fleet, but maybe a few smaller freighters for fuel and munitions
"Building Your Battlegroup" is a fantastic idea for a series! I can't wait for the Rebel Alliance, Republic, and Separatist fleets to get their own episode, not to mention other sci-fi franchises like Star Trek. Starships are my favorite part of any science-fiction universe, and Star Wars certainly has most of my all-time favorite fleets, ships, and overall aesthetics. Determining a proper force to take on their respective challenges is a very interesting idea, and I love it!
Building you battlegroup for the rebellion might be tricky, given you have to take into account their resources and make it realistic. You'll probably end up with whta the rebellion already has.
@@stenroelofs9077 But you could fill different roles with the ships they have. Doesn't have to be a fleet, just a "wolf pack" for hit and run attacks. Their specialty is fighters and bombers, so I'd imagine it'd center around them.
You could also use the TIE Phantom as an assassin. For example if you notice the falcon or a VIP fleeing the area you can use the Phantom to disable or destroy them. Love this and I can’t wait to see more
This is a brilliant concept, and one that I think could easily be fleshed out into a really interesting story. The rebels HAVE to take on this battle group in some sort of pitched battle because if they don't, it'll pick them off one by one. It's the PERFECT sort of "Episode II" type threat that has meaningful stakes and is the perfect kind of follow-up to show that it's an asymmetric battle. I also think that it could easily be a great plot justification for why the Empire focuses on "dumb" tactics. If the admiral leading this group was defeated, the other admirals could use that as evidence that "it doesn't work" even if it extracted a massive toll on the rebels before dying. Just seeing more of how wars are won and lost by politics would solve a lot a plot issues I have with the setting and films.
Not to mention that if the Rebels know this fleet will want to attack them, they will set up in a place that's hostile to the order of battle of this group, also.
I’m imagining the commander of that task force as sort of the Captain Canady of the Empire, someone who knew what they were doing, but was compromised by their colleagues complete incompetence
I would have loved if you guys added a final segment where you pit this formation against a standard rebel fleet and we get to watch your idea play out.
@@kx4998 True. Most Rebel task forces seem to be compromised, at least shortly before Endor, A Mon Calamari Cruiser or two, a couple of Nebulon-B Frigates, Maybe an Assault Frigate, a few corvettes, normally CR90s, and a couple of Gunships. His formation would crush this easily.
Since Rebels almost always operate in small numbers, their strategy depends on delivering single crippiling blow. Therefore by evenly distributing the forces of the fleet, you push them into prolonged battles that they do not have the manpower to fight. Excellet work!
I think the main issue of chasing after the rebellion with a fleet is the logistic. You’re basically a fleet of thousands of men constantly moving from one system to another… your supply line must be able to somehow adjust your random flight pattern. Overstretching them in the process. And knowing that disguising themself as one of a supply ship is a tactic the rebel like to use, your fleet might end up easily infiltrated from behind while you’re chasing after the lure in front of you
yeah, real world Hunter-Killer groups (primarly thouse used in WW2 for hunting U-boats) rarely got anything like this, they were almost entirely escort ships repurposed (an escort carrier + frigates) rather than front line units being repurposed.
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777Yeah, but that was because they were pretty much only hunting U-boats (with the few surface raiders being virtual non-threats to even destroyers). Who didn't stand a chance in a straight fight against anything and relied on extremely limited stealth to get kills. And in the early war when, such direct combat threats did exist, the Allies didn't have the resources to spare to actively hunt them down. And the few groups that were formed did include cruisers or battleships. This is almost the exact opposite of the Empires situation where the Rebels are near continuously gaining capital vessels and the Empire has fewer the further the war progresses.
Agreed. This would be a pretty conspicuous fleet. A fleet like this seems like it would be best used to constantly patrol and make itself known in pockets of space with likely rebel activity, but the fleet itself purposely avoiding direct confrontation until a trap is set or a rebel cell has been physically located, then then rush in full-force and wipe them out. This is why I see this fleet is lacking covert manned long-range surveillance craft. To this end it would make sense for a fleet with this mission profile to be working directly with the ISB or naval intelligence to build and utilize a broad range of surveillance assets including passive scanners at ports, local informants, covert sensors and probe droids, and disguised patrol/reconnaissance craft such as Gozanti-class cruisers made to look like civilian craft, but actually housing all sorts of hidden high-power sensors and listening devices. For the price and crew complement of a single Imperial-class Star Destroyer you could have about 400 Gozanti-class cruisers (a standard Gozanti-class cruiser is only 200,000 credits), so 400 is assuming these would be doubly expensive because of the retrofits necessary for the task. Since an ISD has a crew of 37,000, and assuming we’re replacing a single ISD with a surveillance and intelligence-gathering group, you’d need a maximum of 5000 crew for the Gozanti-class cruisers leaving 32,000 additional personnel for special operations, and surveillance. These spies could be dropped off for months-long stays by the covert Gozantis at thousands of port cities around the Outer Rim in groups of two with a disguised droid, and set up to subtly gather intelligence and data for the fleet. The idea would be that these spies would blend in as best as possible, just identify possible subversive or rebel activity and monitor that activity for signs of an opportunity to strike a significant blow to the rebellion by the fleet. These ships and spies, of course, would never directly engage the rebels so they could remain hidden and the rebels wouldn’t even know to be on the lookout for them. These spies would have to be strictly vetted and selected based on their loyalty to the Empire.
"Outer Rim Yacht Club" makes it sound like your Task Force is having their time of their lives on the pleasure cruise equivalent of a Texas Hog-shoot, while the rest of the Imperial Navy were getting absolutely btfo by the guys you are hunting for sport. Incredibly powerful energy from the name.
👍You've earn yourself a Star My General. I'd say the very best Task Force. -The Good Thing : It's the most realistic Fleet and your doctrine will make it twice efficient. -The Bad : The rebells will flee out of your sector within weeks. -The Ugly part : Your Supply-chain of high tech hardware and missiles will be your Achille's heel. PS : Most Starwars does not use missiles, when the very first video game came out they legitimately build ships without them; The critics was so fierce about "how dumb it was" force them to had missiles in the very first patch. After this the sells clearly rises. Too much StarWars can kill StarWars.
On The Bad: If the rebels abandon the sector in fear of this fleet, the fleet is doing its job. If the Rebels need to dig into that particular sector, they would need to organize an attack on the Task Force itself to remove it from the field, which would be difficult to say the least. In all cases, the Rebellion’s operations in that sector would be critically disrupted by Task Force 89. Mission Accomplished.
The fact that this fleet leverages such advanced hardware is it's advantage, not it's Achilles's heel: Like Marc said, Quality, not Quantity. The Empire, with it's massive industrial complex, should easily be able to support at least several of such battle-groups. Resupply would only be an issue if said group was required for continuous, high-intensity deployment, not the sporadic engagements this task force is optimized for: that sort of thing is better suited towards a more conventional fleet.
Here is my version of this fleet/task force. Main Battle Line: 3 x ISD1 2 x Interdictor Cruisers 2 x Victory 1 (Dedicated escort for interdictors) 2 Escort Groups: 1 x Arquitens Command Cruiser 2 x Arquitens Light Cruiser 2 x Raider Corvettes 1 x IGB Listening Ship
-TTI: "I need a professional in this position, not someone who's going to abandon the formation at the first shot of personal glory." -that sounds like a 'shot' at Admiral K. Konstantine As for the imagined Task Force 89, I gotta say that the Interdictor was the component I was thinking to be one of the most crucial, and adding the Victory II Class SD for dedicated defense of the Interdictor is a must. Since the role of these two ships is defense and containment, then standard TIEs would be adequate for additional defense of these capitol ships as the fighter compliment here is not required for pursuit or other roles that standard TIEs are not suited for. The rest of the task force seems sound through the given explanations for their assigned purpose. Btw, if you're looking for someone to command either the Interdictor or Victory II SD, my resume of dedicated defensive strategy and implementation, as well as an appreciation for the bigger picture and not personal glory, will be submitted for consideration. 😉 Long live the Empire.
I appreciate how you spent a lot of time explaining the ideological obstacles the empire has in place to being able to effectively fight a rebellion, a lot of people when they build their own "killer fleets" often ignore why the empire they're building for didn't do that in the first place, so establishing the internal hurdles is both a good way to explain why tgis didn't happen in the series logically, while also avoiding any accidental blind compliments that attract *those* kinda people. (The ones that don't realize why the fascist are the bad guys.) Just another reason you're among the best. I do also like how you've designed a fleet with an obvious purpose and an obvious weakness; Ambush, and Ambush. It's taken every precaution possible, to the point of weakening it's overall power and fighting capabilities, to ensure it can never be caught out under-prepared, because if it is... Besides being thematically satisfying, it also gives the fleet not just a practical purpose, but a narrative one too, something else a lot of people miss out on. The weakness even still fits into some of the empire's thematics and philosophy, giving reason as to why it's still an empire fleet outside of the fact it's using their equipment. I could easily see some young, headstrong admiral heading this fleet, his initial naval superiority over the rest of the empire and clear results giving him an ego and confidence in his ships/crew that they could spot any ambush before it even starts to form, and the rebel plot to take him down involving espionage and betrayal from older, jealous higher-ups giving up secrets of some of his ships (maybe a former Superior he beat who insists he only won because he had "perfect" information and wouldn't last an hour in a "real" fight (maybe this is even how the rebels find out the tie phantom exists), and an ambush point months in the making, using said data to hide perfectly from the escorts. Maybe even a direct sacrifice of a major rebel leader to draw him out, smelling blood and glory in the water, and the trap being forced to spring early to prevent a call for reinforcement (perhaps that aforementioned former Superior wants the glory of rescuing the "lucky rookie" and to see the shame on his face during the dress-down), leading to a far longer and bloodier battle than either side was ready for. It's the kinda fleet that can both show up as an impending doom in one story and be the central focus of it in another without diminishing its power and impact in the former. Amazing work.
Best way to win any war in the Star Wars Galaxy. Step 1: Build a time machine (if you're the Galactic Empire, skip to step 2). Step 2: Find Mitth'raw'nuruodo. Step 3: Brief him on the enemy you're facing and give him any of their cultural artifacts your faction has. Step 4: Put him in command of all your forces or in a position where he can easily gain access whatever resources he needs. Step 5: Sit back and start taking bets for how fast your faction will win.
@@HolyknightVader999 only because one of the bodyguards of thrawn stabbed him in the back, trawn would have won or at least been able too retreat and fight on his terms later if that wasn’t the case
Love taskforce 89's mission patch. I would absolutely love the idea of being posted here as opposed to 'The Death Seekers' or 'Menacing Maulers' or whatever. As others have pointed out TIE reapers could help with your e-warfare angle rather than retrofitting Lamda shuttles. however in my opinion going with Lamdas is super smart as the Reapers are YET ANOTHER TIE variant that you'dh ave to call favors in on. Plus the Lamda is a super common platform. So if your idea of outfitting them for e-warfare works out, that might spread fleetwide, and even if it doesn't take off overal it's still a super common platform that shouldn't be too taxing for repair crews and it's super cheap in terms of Favors. Turning Thrawn on to Art Deco as way to get just that little bit extra to get a stealth craft fo both advanced scouting and in-battle intel? Genius. I could see Thrawn knowing from the onset you're trying ot squeeze a favor, but both being impressed at the manouver, and happily enjoying the gift for its own sake. That and incorporating TIE Defenders into the formation would go a long way to put you in his good graces. that might make enemies out of other more hindbround sorts, but they are letting their ego impede results thus their opinions can go out the airlock for all I care. the inclusion of gravity mines is a good cheap redundant way to force an engadgement if the interdictor is either indisposed or you need to cast a wider net. Fine, you're stuck to, but by and large? You have the bigger guns thus 'I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with Me.' Most importantly though? Overriding the ship comp? Is the attitude you want fostered amongst the taskforce members. Healthy cooperation, camraderie, ties that bind beyond fanatic loyalty and selfish ambition. That is a taskforce I would request a transfer to.
Yeah I'm a big fan of the Lambda idea, as it parallels the IRL successful use of transport(ish) craft to perform AWACs type tasks. We know it works for real fleets, and I imagine it would be similarly efficient for the Outer Rim Yacht Club. Also avoids yet another procurement hassle, as I'd presume the recon equipment and fitting would be far easier to pull off than requesting an entirely new craft be purpose-built.
@@TemplinInstitute Yep. Was a bit confused why Ion Cannons would escort, and then you said concussion missiles. Though basing it from your words, it seems like you thought even IIs could have concussion missiles, since you did say modify to, but that never actually happened, the Empire would just use a Victory I
There's only a single thing lacking on your Imperial Task Force and that I find extremely important to give it a more sophisticated line of defense against enemy starfighters. A squadron of Lancer-class frigates, ideally 12, but 6 could be enough.
@@4klegion630 without a doubt need a lancer or two guarding the interdictor since it would be the highest priority target for fighters and replace the victory with a gladiator, its made for the role, packs the greatest punch for its cost than any other imperial ship and the savings could be put towards the deadliest part of the fleet. a wolf pack of 8 raiders outfitted for torpedos and bombers. the interdictor holds the enemy, the star destroyers rout them, the arquitens funnels their retreat, then the raiders use the interdictors gravity well to make a precise hyperspace jump in the perfect position to blow them apart. maybe its my time flying a stealth bomber in EVE but this battlefield shaping hammer and anvil stuff i think is the most effective way you can go about completely eradicating an enemy.
One issue with this is that the lancer isn't fast enough to keep pace with the rest of the fleet at top speed and I'm pretty sure this video is exclusively using canon ship's and the lancer is legends.
@@Shark_boiiiii none of the listed speeds make any sense the lancer especially. so we cant really know if the lancer actually would get left behind by the interdictor.
I agree, the fleet is lacking a ship for antistarfighter duties. However as others have said the Lancer is indeed too slow. Repurposing and modifying a Nebulon B or Dreadnought Crusier for laser cannons or something like the Carrack class would all be great choices.
The Victory II didn't had the missile launchers anymore. Those were removed for tractor beams and ion-cannons if i remember right. Which would make them even more useful for your task force i think.
No, the Victory I would be better as a dedicated escort since missiles are much more effective at very long ranges and relatively effective against starfighters that slipped through the net
I hope the next episode of this series is you designing the perfect Rebel Counter Task Force for this. Could be very interesting, especially if you take the Ragtag nature of the Rebel Fleet into consideration.
Man, just seeing someone take a very critical eye an actually put resources that are easily accessible in the Empire to such terrifyingly effective use makes my head spin.
i can already image an imperial commander giving a lecture on powerpoint in front of the emperor on many high ranking members of the imperial navy of this task force during like some sort of imperial military lecuture
Jumped over here from Perun. It's both weird, and weirdly fun to come back and critique Star Wars knowing way more than I did when I was a kid, about how military logistics and organization works.
Maybe an addition to building your battlegroup you could add building your ship, where you design a cost-effective craft for an alternate interstellar navy. Also, I think a great challenge for building your battle group would be creating an anti-reaper task force from Mass Effect. That one will be hard.
Speaking of taskforce, it baffles me how canon won’t bring back the rebel Specforce from legends. There’s nothing in it that could contradict their capabilities. Crix was a big part of helping them achieve more.
@@weldonwin Cara dune was a NR-Shocktrooper, the spec force was mre likely to go sabotage the death stars main reactor, than go and just pummel a few unlucky stormtroopers.
I mean, a lot of legends stuff can exist in a psuedo-canonical sense in terms of "if there's not any explicit contradiction it's probably fine". Something like SpecForce might not exactly fit pre-R1/ANH, since they're trying to show that era of the rebellion as having more disconnected and guerilla tactics. However, post-ANH they'd definitely fit in.
@@loganw1232 The rebellion was galactic wide and had the backing and funding of most major corporations. It also helped that the Empire was pretty much only liked in the Core. The Rebels are still going to have fighter, light ship, and bomber superiority and capital ships that directly counter ISDs. Not beat in a one on one; counter. VSD 2s would actually do better. This task force would be avoided like the plague, lol!
"There's not much the Imperial Navy's done these last few years that's made me at all nervous, but Task Force 89? That worries me." - Rear Admiral Anniyah Winter, Screeching Mynocks (Alliance Stensen Sector Fleet), after reading a detailed intelligence report about the 'Outer Rim Yacht Club'.
A little late but what about stormtroopers and other ground pounders you may need for Task Force 89? Sure the task force may be able to kill anything it comes across but what about when it needs a scalpel for sensitive things like boarding actions and door kicking? The rebellion won't just be in ships all the time and will be needed to be rooted out from planets and stations. Being able to capture enemy commanders would also be a great boon for intelligence. I'm mostly imagining and taking from real life examples of how much SOF groups are used in the War on Terror, where just bombing things isn't exactly always a good option.
Also late but Rebel Corvettes and Frigates can basically counter this fleet by whittling away at the fleet while few of the Task force’s armaments are effective
@@navinnakwek5851 I dont know that he need this elements, because he said at the beginning that the task force should hunt rebel ships and not to participate on these "door kicking" things
I really liked this pilot. I would love to see this one get an ongoing series. There are so many factions out there, and you can even use the same faction for different scenarios in that same universe.
Okay, this is the best choice of new series. Ah, the TIE Defender and Interceptor, the ships Star wars ignored because they were too strong for the bad guys to have them.
14:20 I think what you are actually referring to is a Victory I class SD, which is the original, missile equipped, variant. The Victory II deleted the missiles in favour of heavy turbolasers. Edit:Another idea may be to include the Cygnus Space Works XG-1 Starwing as a reconnisance platform instead of the recon Lambda Shuttle. The Starwing is a starfighter not only capable of performing long range reconnisance, but also engaging targets of oppertunity independently, and even providing direct support during larger actions.
He is likely referring to later sources that instead said most VSD-IIs had missiles instead of ion cannons. With the main difference between the VSD-I and VSD-II being updated systems.
@@evanhenderson1760 I was just staying the types of armaments the VSD II had over the VSD I, personally I prefer the VSD I though it’s engines and hyperdrive are still a pretty good problem that is fixed by the VSD II
@@jangoman0977 oh of course, I was just saying that the newer into templin was likely working with states that VSD-IIs had roughly the same missile armament as the VSD-I, and that only a rare few of the IIs had ion cannons.
11:27 I see every arquitens in your fleet is carrying a squadron of ties. the light an command variants of the arquitens can hold up to 2 or 3 tie fighters, only the 546 variant seen in the Mandalorian can hold an entire squadron. Anyway, great video, would love to see more of these kind!
I was so excited for this pilot and it did not disappoint! Your videos on tanks and navies have been such a help for my own writing and worldbuilding and I'm so excited for more videos like this!
The problem is the Death Star is expensive and can only be in one system at a time. Even if they don’t destroy it, the station getting damaged would take it out of service for months.
I think you forgot about the starfighter contingent of the Victory II. Since it’s role will be escorting the Interdictor. Filling the hangar with Tie Interceptors would be best.
He doesn’t explicitly mention it but if you look under the picture of the Victroy II, you can see it’s star fighter compliment and it is interceptors. Pause it at 16:08
@@S4EGEF9RDgaming not really. The defenders are mainly offensive. The interceptors are designed to protect he ship and, since the Victory II will be sticking clode to the Interdictor, it will be far behind the main battle line so defenders just aren‘t needed
Love this video format and I think this was an excellent Imperial fleet composition! Two small tweaks: 1. A small, elite commando group for recon. They'd board disabled Rebel ships and stations to extract prisoners/intel and learn about shipyards and movements. I'd place them aboard a Raider, Lamda, or assault shuttle. 2. 1-3 Lancer frigates as anti-starfighter bulwarks. While your quality TIEs would suffice most of the time, they could potentially be tied up or overwhelmed by a massed Alliance fighter/gunship/corvette swarm, allowing bombers to slip through and strike Murderer's Row. If your fleet is maxed out, maybe trade 1-2 regular Arquetins for Lancers. Intel from the commandos might also help expose unusually large fighter accumulations. Very fun video concept, I'm psyched to see you apply this to other factions and universes!
The inclusion of the TOE Punisher is something I hadn’t seen coming since I thought hardly anyone new about it’s existence, but to see it implemented into a highly elite fleet is pretty cool.
super smart saving this video as a...."flagship" piece of content:). I agree with your line-up 90-95%. I wouldn't grab tie defenders as its a bit of a copout. BUT I would give each ISD and the interdictor, 2 lancers. I personally love the victory class but it might be too slow for how nimble the fleet needs to be. great vid!
This fleet is supposed to align with the Disney canon so lancers should be swapped out for standard raiders. Later on he does talk about raiders and their roles but this is partially false. While it does make sense that raiders are corvettes and thus operate in coastal defence settings, in the comics at least, raiders are known to be very independent and operate extremely long ranges. So I think an escort of 2 raiders per ISD as point defence for the main batteline works
@@captwaffle1361 the Raider and Lancer and nowhere near comparable. The former is smaller, faster and more maneuverable corvette, with a mixture of light turbolasers and heavy laser canons. A flexible multi-role craft. The latter is a much larger and slower frigate, bristling with a boat-load of quad laser canons. A dedicated anti-fighter platform, and nothing else.
I'd include a couple of squadrons of Starwings, AKA the Imperial Missile Boat. These were very powerful, jump capable heavy fighters produced by Cygnus Spaceworks, who built the Lambda shuttles. As the name implies, they carried big banks of missiles including concussion missiles and proton torpedoes, as well as standard heavy blasters and ion cannons. In many ways, they are a precursor to the TIE Defenders and were probably significantly cheaper to source
i second this motion, the Assault Gunboat has the best weapons and shields to make up for lack of manoeuvrability, they pair up well with advanced TIEs such as the Defender or Avenger lines
@@trippyulyanov2012 Even normal Interceptors would be suitable (albeit not as optimal) for covering the Assault Gunboats, so you wouldn't have to call in favors to acquire squadrons to cover other squadrons you spent your (presumably quite valuable) favors on
I love the idea of designing an imperial battlegroup with an emphasis on starfighter quality and effective reconnaissance to make up for the empire's biggest shortfalls. Here is my take; I think your fleet's reliance on a wide variety of "wunderwaffen" type craft can work against it's intended purpose. By complicating the process of supply, maintenace and replacement of such weapons, you basically guarantee there will be downtime, maintenance problems and hesitancy to commit to battle, which can nullify any benefits. My fleet design would look very similar, but I would drop the wunderwaffen for just more "medium-tier-tech" like more tie interceptors and tie bombers, or alternatively commit to just one specialty craft like the tie defender. I would also drop the Victory-II in favor of more escort corvettes/cruisers since most attacks will come from smaller foes anyway. Finally, I would double/tripple up on the listening ships (and use them alot), drop the cantwell which isn't suited for frontline combat, and let the corvettes keep their weapons in-place for use in more surgical operations, away from the main task force.
Using 3-5 Imperial classes as the backbone of the task-force, I would then further sub-divide the force, splitting off single star destroyer task-forces (including escorts) to patrol a larger area, making sure to leave the main fleet with at least two star destroyers (including escorts) as a hardpoint & escort for the immobilizer.
Pretty well thought out. I can only think of a few things I would modify. I'm going under the assumption that this whole fleet is classified and would want to keep a lower than normal profile. 1) The need for logistics ships. Sure you can stop by a base to resupply, but I'm sure they're being monitored. A few dedicated ships popping into a base won't be drawing as much attention as a battle fleet. Also, you would want them directly attached instead of requesting them from someone else. That way they know the fleet, how it operates, what to do when, etc.. 2) I would have at least one, but preferably two escort carriers with Tie fighters and some shuttles. Mainly for three reasons. Reason one, the TIE's would be perfect for CAP around the fleet. They're enough to defend while your more advanced fighters take off. This saves a lot of flight and maintenance hours on your "top shelf" spacecraft. Let the TIE's be the speed bump. They would also work for escorting other ships in areas you don't want the people seeing what you have. I.e. You need to visit a base on a populated planet. You show up with TIE Defenders, someone's gonna notice and start asking questions. You show up with TIE's, not so much. Reason two, pilot training. You want your pilots to keep at it in regards with training. I'd rather they do the simple stuff just to get flight hours in a cheap TIE instead of an Interceptor. Most training would be on their specific craft, but with a few things done on TIE's, you'd save some more hours on your harder hitting stuff. Reason three, spares. You'd have a place to keep a few extra fighters, shuttles, and other support craft so you could free up a few more spots on the big ships.
@@TemplinInstitute well heckles! Looks like the Yacht club'll need reconfiguring when the vong come knocking then. Supposing the empire doesn't panic and throw their credits at making super weapons.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Honestly, looking at the loadout, all the Yacht Club would need to do is trade the electronic warfare ships in for something with more staying power. The main battle line is perfectly functional as long as they keep up with evolving tech and tactics. Three SDs plus modified interceptors, defenders, bombers and punishers would still be a credible threat to a similar sized vong battlegroup. So just trade the EW escorts in for more Arquitens and maybe a couple of Lancers. Dunno about the Interdictor, as it's been a while since I read TNJO and I'm fuzzy on if interdiction fields worked on dovin-basals. If it does then keep it on. If not then maybe trade it in for another SD.
"Ok, we've got two more assignments. We need to deal with some persistent rebel raids on our crucial trade lanes. Oh, and then there's rumors of some activity over by Dantooine, nothing too firm but it's a possibility. It just so happens you have two battlegroups just entering readiness, Grand Admiral." "Hmm, what fleets are those?" "'Task Force 86, 'The Outer Rim Yacht Club', and Task Force 88, 'Formidable Judgement,' sir." "88, that's Moff whatisfaces' boy, what was it..." "The young Admiral Woyetta, yes. I do understand his father is the Moff Woyetta. My understanding is that this is his first combat command. 86 had some remarkable performance in the latest war games against--" "Maneuvers are one thing, but guts are another. Woyetta was a big man in the Clone Wars, I'm sure his boy knows what's what. And I need some pull if I'm going to get anything done with the next set of requisitions. Get 88 on those raids, get him some seasoning and some glory. Now, I've got a meeting about the new Nightmare-class they're working on; something about the forward viewscreens being a problem. Deal with the rest."
Congratulations on your 500th video! I've been a subscriber since your earliest days, and it makes me happy to see you've come so far. Personally, I think your channel is an undervalued one on this platform at the moment. As for the video, I think you are lacking a wolfpack tactic level of a separate warship squadron. Capable of providing firepower while not being weak as a fighter yet speedy enough that chasing down larger ships won't be an issue. Perhaps something like a frigate wolfpack?
In terms of scouting ships, there are dedicated tie fighters you can use that have pretty decent hyperdrives and good sensors. The appropriately named tie scout is literally designed for the exact purpose you want with powerful sensors and one of t he best hyperdrives ever equipped to a starfighter it can jump into a system and scout for your main forces. Some other notes, only the victory 1 is equipped with the missile banks with the 2 replacing them for more ion cannons for disabling rebel ships, but the victory 1 is also older and slower then the 2 so yeah. In terms of additions, would probably try and squeeze in some Lancer frigates as dedicated fighter removal vessels even with the good fighters you have, as those are some of the few imperial ships rebel starfigher jockeys actively fear and avoid at all costs (even rogue squadron) because this thing can just delete fighters with its absurd number of point defense guns and those are pretty small and probably not too hard to get a handful of them to sprinkle into the formation. If you for some reason can’t get lancers, the IPV 1 system patrol craft can work as a fairly cheap alternative or you could do what the rebels did and buy some modular CR-90 corvettes fitted with as many laser cannons as possible, as the empire did make use of cr90’s during the galactic civil war. Any one of these ships can make your starfighter screens even more effective and protect your capital ships from any pesky bombers that manage to slip by.
i could easily see this fleet as a junior asigned formation to thrawn. like he is trying to teach the one in command of the fleet how to be his successor or someone capable to call in the case he will MAYBE ever need help
I think this is a very reusable formation that could definitely achieve what you have in mind for it. All you need is good commanders and this will definitely put the rebels on the back foot. So far loving the content
Absolutely, they would probably be even better in the role for the same reason I chose the Arquitens - Reapers likely share a lot of the same spare parts, etc, as my fighter wings. I chose the Lambda for two reasons, I think they have better hyperdrives, which are probably harder to swap out, and I just love those ships so much. If Thrawn came back to me and said "no Lambdas, here's some Reapers instead" I'd be totally fine with that though.
@@TemplinInstitute The Lamda has an advantage in being super common as a platform. So you aren't spending clout ot try getting your mitts on a super rare TIE variant when you've already spent a bunch of that very finite resource as is (That said cluing Thrawn in on Art Deco is a genius move on your part for getting just that little bit extra political currency to spend.)
Having Lambdas as scouts also has a hidden advantage - they are so ubiquitous that no one really looks at one twice. Especially if they combined electronic surveillance with HUMINT from deployed Imperial Special Forces, which could easily be carried. It's the old "it's a fishing trawler, honest" trick. Pick someone people wouldn't look at twice. It also can carry more people and stuff and has longer endurance.
@@simonnance I was thinking the exact same thing. "Sounds like a 1 prop diesel engine, sir." "Aint no submarines like that. Helm, take us on a new course." Meanwhile, sensor data is flooding back to command ops.
The main weakness of the fleet is actually imperial politics. The second a recon ship is destroyed, there will be pressure to turn it into a gunboat instead. And most officers are cruel and selfish, so good luck keeping them from infighting while scouting.
@@marcofava something like 24ish Marathons and 190something Frigates during the first map of Halo 2 vs 2 CAS assault carriers and 13 CCS class Battlecruisers.
Best pilot so far. You should consider doing Gundam battle groups next. I'm sure you can think of task forces in any reality created solely to hunt down Gundams. Also, congrats on your 500th video.
The TIE Defender was my favorite ship in Squadrons. It was the only one that could actually match the Rebel ships. I can only imagine it'd have been devastating in combat in large numbers.
I always wanted to see a TV series about a sane and smart Imperial Commander who felt he had no choice but to follow the chain of command but was one day forced to do something rebellious to save a crew member. He went on to convert many of his Bridge Crew and defected the Destroyer Group to the Rebel Alliance. It would make an interesting series set around the time of Andor. And BTW I'm not copying them. I wanted this in the 90's. I just lack the writing skill to make it work.
I’m genuinely surprised no Lancer frigate to scour enemy fighter squads from existence. Just one of those could keep the Interdictor safe from most attempted bombing runs.
I supposed one of the reasons is similar to why the Venator wasn't chosen - more capability than actually needed. The battle line relies on the Defender/Interceptor for defence while the Escort squadron relies on the Interceptor and has the Raiders with good anti-fighter as redundancy, so the lancer wasn't needed there The other reason I can think of is that if my memory is there, isn't the Lancer so rare within the Empire that whatever clout whoever commands this task force has can be better spent elsewhere?
Same, and I feel like there's too many layers of electronic warfare and that you could swap a couple of those vessels out for maybe another Victory-class or two for more firepower.
@@justanabramspassingby Actually no, simply put no one WANTED a Lancer Frigate. It was seen as useless or too weak, that it didn’t strike fear. Only reason they were rare was because the Empire were idiots and didn’t want to make them and no one wanted them other then a select few.
@@BigZach1 if we refer to IRL experience of effective counter-raider and decisive engagements, it shows that there is no such thing as too many layers of electronic warfare you can never have enough of them if there is any available asset, you grab it and put it in the field whenever and wherever you can
It always amused that despite the fact that the Imperials are the villains of the saga, they are very popular as a faction amongst the fanbase, despite how evil they are. They have badass weapons, cool ships, and awesome uniforms and costumes as well menacing astatic to them. Which is why I like them.
I'd add a logistics ship or two, and maybe some frigates to escort them. The added range and operational time without having to dock for resupply would make it easier to slip under the radar of any rebel informants, once they start taking note of your activities and trying to track your movements.
1x Providence Dreadnought as a flagship 6x Munificent Star Frigates 2x Recusent Light Destroyer 1x Recusent Support Destroyer (as a logistic ship) 2x Gozanti Flotilla (as light escorts) 2x Hardcell Transports as a Supply Ships (not for combat use)
For your thing about needing Recon starships, instead of the Lambda, there were some existing Imperial Recon ships. For example, the TIE Scout was essentially a TIE Fighter with a hyperdrive (it was the ship Ben Solo used to get back to Exogol in the Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker). Though I'm not sure how much sensory equipment those have. There were also modified Gozanti-class cruisers knoown as IGV-55 surveillance vessel (aka Gozanti-class espionage ship) with added sensor equipment, so they could be used for surveillance, intel, and recon (as seen in Star Wars Rebels). Though those are small cruisers, I think around the size of a Raider-class or CR90 corvette, so they would probably have to fly seperately from the Star Destroyers, outside of the hanger. I'm pretty sure these can be used for electronic warfare too, given what they did with them in the episode of Star Wars Rebels they were in. (As I watch the video I see that you mentioned this, but I still think you could use them instead of Lambdas, which seem to be just transports, and aren't even great at being troop transports for direct combat situations (according to some of the visual dictionaries)) Plus, the Gozanti cruisers can carry either 4 TIE/ln sized ships, or even 2 AT-AT sized vehicles. For the vehicle-carrying purposes for ground-assaults, they aren't as specialized like the Y-85 Titan Dropships that the Empire has specifically for that purpose, but the Titans are usually only in forces with Super Star Destroyers, so you'd probably only have Gozantis for that anyway. Plus, Gozantis are faster. Edits: Just adding more stuff as the video goes on.
@@razorburn645Star Wings would be cool! I think they're supposed to be used as gunboats and bombers (which I think they're good at but there's already a bunch of other ships to do that too), but they could be used for other stuff too I assume.
Other than hunting down rebel fleets, it gives the fleet captains a fair amount of leeway on where they patrol. A good tactic would be when heading to a rebel fleet staging area, to drop a Lamda class shuttle and a few dozen probe droids in neighboring systems, this keeps the main task force on point and gives them some eyes and ears in surrounding systems just in case a few rebel ships slip past the task force
(As usual, I suck at writing concisely, so TLDR: Nice video, I also did this and had many of the same ideas) I love how often this channel and myself have aligned interests. Because not long ago I was annoyed by the Empire's tactics when facing the rebels, and basically set out to design a task force with the exact same goal as the one in the video. I had many of the same ideas, aiming for a task force made near to a bit before the middle of the war, though I imagined this as a task force with less resources given to them. This put some limitations on both scale and variety, and so for example, while I think an interdictor for sure is the best fit, it wouldn't have been available for a lower priority unit. And so, my fleet is smaller, and definitely has some weaknesses, but if wielded properly, could do much of the same that the video's force could have. To start off, I set out with one thing in mind that your force somewhat ignores. The fact that so many big ships could draw attention to the task force, causing rebel cells to flee before any contact has been made. This, in combination with the more restricted budget led me to have only a single Imperial 2 star destroyer as the "flagship" of the task force. It’s not enough to take on any and all rebel fleets, but if deployed intelligently, then it will along with the rest of the task force be more than enough to take on smaller groups, or parts of larger groups. Along with it, making up the command battle group within the larger task force, would be two Quasars. You stated that you had issues with it, and you're not alone, but I would much rather have the extra fighter support from a less than perfect warship, than have to rely on what the other ships can carry, especially considering my slightly differing battle-tactic (which I will get back to). And lastly as part of the main command battle group is four Arrestor Cruisers, there to do what they can to make up for the lack of an Interdictor. Alongside the command battle group would be six patrol/support battle groups. All containing an Arquitens Cruiser, to provide firepower and act as command ships for these smaller groups. Two Gozanti Cruisers, both there to provide more fighters, but also simply to tank damage, while also increasing the group’s attack possibilities. And lastly, I also utilize the IGV-55 listening ships, putting one in each patrol/support battle group, who during combat would act in the same role as the raiders in the video’s fleet. These groups would patrol the sector of interest, being pushy enough to keep rebel cells weary of moving around much, but not being so aggressive that they feel threatened. All while the IGV-55s passively listen for anything useful. As for fighters, bombers and such, both the command and patrol/support battle groups would be fitted with fighters much in the same mindset as in the video, though on a budget. So, in my mind it would primarily be Tie-interceptors. And then I'll get back to the rest of the complement in a bit, because first I want to talk about one of the big differences between my task force, and the one in the video (other than the budget). Which is that I decided that a task force like this, should try to use all the strengths the Empire had, against the weaknesses of the rebels. And these strengths are well disciplined troops, and a distinct advantage in ground combat. So, the rest of my carried ships, and fleet overall would be centered around infiltration, and rapid deployment of ground troops. With the idea being to locate a rebel cell, wait for them to land at a base, or at a friendly port, and then use ground troops to take out what can be taken out on the ground, while holding them there long enough for the command and support groups to get into position to take them on. As part of this the Quasars would carry Sentinel-class landing craft and bombers, to aid in this sort of mission. Lastly, both as part of both the reconnaissance, but also the assault itself, I would rely quite heavily on undercover agents, who when not traveling with other ships in the fleet, would utilize simple civilian ships (of course retrofitted to aid in their mission, but not too much, to limit the risk of discovery). These would work closely alongside the larger fleet, but also small elite reconnaissance squadrons. Again, assuming I couldn't afford anything too fancy, these would travel using Sentinel Class landing ships, although I would have them retrofitted to have the best sensors that could fit (which, since they normally can carry 54 - 75 passengers, shouldn’t be an issue). These small squads would be acting upon intelligence gathered by every part of the fleet, and would act both as passive investigators, and more active interrogators. As touched on earlier, this means that the fleets main tactic would be to enter a system of interest, have the command group take up a “defensive” position where it most makes sense, while the patrol groups set out to patrol, keeping any rebel cells still, while gathering intelligence. While this is happening, undercover agents begin seeking the rebels, and working with the recon squads begin to smoke them out. Then, once they have been discovered, drop ships would leave the bigger ships at a distance, reducing the chance of discovery and getting into position close to the target. The undercover agents, and possibly the recon squad will look for opportunities to sabotage, and right before the fleet arrives, the force of shock troops attack, causing the rebels to focus on defending themselves from them. Then, they would either keep up the pressure until the rebels were defeated, pushed to retreat, or if the rebels put up more of a fight than anticipated, they would retreat themselves having served their primary purpose of keeping them occupied. As by then, any fleeing ships would have to get through the fleet. A fleet which has a much more even fighter complement than rebels are used to, and which has arrestor cruisers to keep at least the most important ships from escaping, should they get past the fleet. In less ideal situations where the ground forces are unable to get close enough to a base, or if the fleet simply refrains from landing anywhere, this fleet would be less effective. But utilizing its intelligence gathering ability, especially along with any successful undercover agents, it should still be able to locate parts of the fleet and take out parts of it. So yeah, that’s my “seek and destroy” fleet, utilizing much of the same mindset, but at a more limited budget.
This sounds like a threat that the rebels would need to take out ASAP as it prevents them from building strength and allies but if they gather in force that could break the fleet you can run/delay them and call in a more normal fleet to take them on This fleet is focused on forcing the rebels to fight on the empires terms
I think you really should have incorporated some Lancer-class frigates. They didn't have the anti-ship punching power of an Arquitens, but their numerous quad-laser cannon batteries made even the legendary Rogue Squadron hesitate to engage.
Considering the deep operations the task force is likely to engage in, some sort of auxiliary support ship may be prudent? Not something completely defenseless mind you, but something that can keep the TF out on the hunt without having to find a port for every little thing.
I would probably add in some TIE Avengers and Assault Gunboats as a suppliment/replacement for some of the interceptors and bombers. They, along with the Defenders, are also hyperspace capable. The Gunboats are better at assaulting defended targets than the Bombers because they're shielded and the Avengers give you a better all around platform for dogfighting than anything except for possibly the Defenders. If you want to get really greedy you can add in a couple Missile Boats as well, but they were even more rare than Defenders with only a handful ever seeing combat.
Some little idea I had for a fleet like this is a small Bait squadron. A civilian craft, some junk captured from the rebels or bought from some second hand salesman, followed by two remote-operated TIEs programmed to follow it and occasionally fire, but rarely actually hit it. The purpose of this fleet is simple: The Rebels' kindness will always be their biggest flaw, and that should be exploited. They can't resist helping someone under attack from imperials. This group simply comes through a system, and does a little show of asking for help and taking some hits. The Rebels swoop in, save this poor pilot, who can then be on his way, right back to our fleet to report a rebel presence in the system. Maybe see if they can start a conversation and get any intel, or offer them some tracked goods as thanks (and, if the rebels notice the goods have a tracker, they already have the perfect cover "That's how those TIEs found me! Thanks for pointing that out!") Worst case scenario, even if the Rebels learn how this trick operates, the only thing they can do to beat it is to stop engaging when they see TIEs pursuing civilian ships.
I feel like if I were to had face that type of Task Force in the AOTR mod for Empire At War, I may have a shot of causing chaos with it, since my style while playing as the Rebel Alliancw is by making Task Forces that are mostly comprises of T-65B X-Wing Starfighter (20 units), BTL-A4 Y-Wing Starfighter (10 units), UT-60D U-Wing Starfighter/Support Craft (4 units), & RZ1 A-Wing Interceptor (6 units). Its great in a "Hit & Run" tactic, & at catching Ships little or no support. Though, I'm not sure how many Starfighters I may lose if I'm not careful with my targets.
This task force is vulnurable to massed fighter/bomber attacks. And by some coincidence this is Rebel Alliance's prefered tactics. Good job, agent! Galaxy will be free from Imperial tyranny.
The Rebels dont have massed fighters and bombers, their numbers in a theatre are limited and they would fare horribly against that many TIE Interceptors, TIE Defenders and the Arquitens. Only an frontal suicide charge by some cruiser, destroying the Interdictor, would let them get away.
You Need some lancer to deal with any fighter whiteout risking yours. The biggest cost you will have is any Tie Fighter and Pilot lost so having the frigate lancer dealing with them is better than having all fighter defense on fighter.
Absolutely love these kind of fleet vids! Inspired me to research my own here... This fleet, like yours, would be solely tasked with finding, isolating, and destroying rebel star fleets. These are the following assets in my fleet... -- 3 upgraded ISD 1s (basically older ISDs upgraded to current standers, but still maintain a point defense system. People forget that ISDs are amazing capitol ship killers ) -- 1 Interdictor (only 1 because they're expesive. Keeps the rebel scum from fleeing, and is protected by the ISDs) -- 5 carrack class frigates (they have a larger more diverse armament, are just as durable, and way faster than arquintens while being about the same size) -- 5 tartan class frigates (Tough anti-starfighter monster, defensive in nature. Plus are fast, allowing them to disengage quickly) -- 9 cr92a corvettes (Highly customizable, cheap, fast, and durable corvettes. Some could be corvette killers, and some could help out against starfighters. Defensive in nature, but offer multi-mission scouting or reconnaissance) -- 1 gladiator star destroyer (Carrier and work bay of the battle group. Also decently well armed and could help pound other ships. Although in cannon it doesn't carry a lot, some vids have pointed out the sheer amount of hanger space this thing has, and it could easily carry 12+ squadrons) -- 2 vindicator class light cruisers (Extra muscle. Powerful for their size, and pretty durable Can be held in reserve to perform small Thrawn - Pincer hyperjump) -- 1 vigil class Corvette (Tough ship meant for patrol, but could be excellent for reconnaissance) -- 1Spector class Storm Commando Carrier (Basically a spec-ops corvette. Not meant for fleet battles, but is perfect for scouting and reconnaissance, as well as infiltration. Plus has elite storm comandos aboard) *Probe droids are super underutilized as scouts themselves. Cheap and effective. I like your lamba shuttle idea, although if I could, I would use TIE Scouts as well (not normal TIEs but are actual TIE models, look them up). Thats already a ton of ships, but now on to starfighters.... -- as many TIE Interceptors as possible (Much better than standard TIE LN's. Are incredible dog-fighters with 4 powerful laser cannons, a top notch targeting system, and the best menuverablilty. Defensive in nature) -- alpha class xg1 missle boats (Actually very capable starfighters, but I would outfit them for anti-capital ship duty. They faster and less vulnerable than TIE Bombers.) -- as many squadrons of either TIE hunters, TIE defenders Or TIE avengers (All three, especially avenger and defender, are top notch imperial starfighters, and are better than every rebel fighter with the exception to the E wing (maybe)) - if possible, skipray blastboats and Y-E4 gunships. Just extra protection from starfighters I like the TIE phantom but its just too rare to include Overall, most of these ships and starfighters serve to protect the ISDs and the Interdictor. The ISDs are the main atraction here and are what will kill their fleet.
That is a greatly efficient and solidly build up imperial fleet that makes up for its weakness in cannon and give it a terrific fighting chance in a stand-up fight against a rebel taskforce by giving it the speed, scanning range and firepower to take them on. However for me, still think in a stand-up fight against a rebel fleet of same size, three or four mc80s a or b will eat imperial star destroyers for breakfast and large fighter squadrons made up of a variety of y, x, a, b and e wings will still have the edge even on enemy formations made up of interceptors, bombers and defenders. While screen of nebula,s carracks, gunships would keep their escorts in check for that to happen. Catching a tiger by its tail in by book.
I don't know much about naval combat but what I do know is that this fleet is very battleship focused while the US navy is basically focused around an aircraft carrier. While star destroyers can serve in the role its not the same. Although it is known that the empires fighter program is very much lacking with the cancellation of the defender.
Would you be able to get three Imperial IIs at this point in the war? If not, would you be willing to settle for replacing one or both of them with Imperial 1s?
Suggestion: Part 2 for this video should be about this task force's land forces. Using this fleets ship composition what type of vehicles, infantry and so on will you be bringing.
Thing is, this fleet is designed specifically to cripple the Rebellion's interstellar assets. It doesn't need a landing or invasion force because their not invading enemy territory. That can be managed by a different task force. This one is focused mostly on naval combat. The heavier ordinance for planetary bombing on the tie bombers and punishers are more than enough for this particular task force
@@ash_from_youtube9387 So you mean to say this fleet don't have any complement of marines (even for ship boarding defense), vehicles or equipment that can be utilize or facilitate any mission that may involve any landing, boarding, investigation, scouting, recon, quick action and so on? And if this fleet encounter any unexpected situation in their current mission that requires any land forces. They will simply just over looked it or they would contact and wait for other friendly forces that are better equipped to handle the situation? Because they don't have anything other than naval assets? They would just bombed everything from orbit.
@@dfool06 You make a fair point but it would come up very rarely, if at all, as that isn't part of the intended aim of this fleet. Likely it would only come up if they were targeting rebel shipyard or something similar. Personally, I think it would be more viable to simply call for aid from a combined arms team from the Imperial Army. The advantage of this fleet is that they're not really in a rush. They decide the terms of battle. Though, I could see why you might want to keep a few ground capabilities on board, but it's a question of whether or not it's worth the added logistics. Task Force 89 is navy, not army, so actual landings I feel would be incredibly rare and if it ever did come up, they would just want to call on someone more experienced
2:49 "Our mission is to locate and destroy the Rebel Alliance's interstellar assets, its cruisers, starfighters and whatever else we might find flying the red starbird. We're not looking to hunt down rebel bases or root out sympathisers, our primary concern is crippling the Rebellion's ability to conduct interstellar warfare." It depends on how you interpret the stated aim of this task force and what you decide it entails. For me, it seems highly unlikely that they'd need any kind of army or ground force as the entire task force is built around interstellar, naval warfare.
@@ash_from_youtube9387 Oh come on! Not even a tiny group? Half a dozen squad of shock troops? I think that would be the main weakness of this fleet. The empire is vast, a fleet should always be ready for anything. What happens if a ship crashed on a planet? Captain of crashed ship: Command! Our ship crash landed on a planet full of hostiles. We are in danger of being overrun. We can't fight them off because we don't have any force to deal with any land battles. Request immediate rescue. Fleet Command: Oh sorry. We don't have any assets to go down there either. We are an anti rebel fleet task force remember. What we have are plenty of bombs ordinances. We are just gonna bomb all of you to kingdom come to prevent your capture. Best of luck to all of you down there.
I'd be very happy to see more of these - perhaps a potential alternate Federation task force for the Dominion War, a Battle Star formation from the high-point of the Colonies, or even a ground force for the Trade Federation that doesn't suck. There's definite potential here!
Want to vote for "Building Your Battlegroup" when the polls go live tomorrow? A pledge of just $2 on our Patreon, will get you a vote. | www.patreon.com/templininstitute
So this is how democracy dies, with a Patreon Plug.
Excellent Idea though I am curious... how would this concept be employed on the ground level? Such as Fighter Wings, infantry, Artillery, spec ops, tank corps, etc.
If you could, try to get an Acclamator for ground invasions. It can also act as your resupply ship as it has a small crew and tons of storage.
@TemplinInstitute You needed a few auxiliary vessels. 1. At least 1 dedicated scrap/tug vessel for scrubbing through the wreckage for intelligence. You never know what some jump computer on a freighter or a repair droid might have stored. So searching through wreckage is an intel gold mine. 2. At least 2 resupply vessels to do trickle down logistics. They feed the bigger ships, which in turn feed the smaller ships. Simple and effective. Security for these is minimal because they only jump in system when the fleet have the system secure. And if the rebels choose to join the part your TTP’s should have your response covered. It might even bait them into a conflict creating a pincer move if your TTP’s are good…
This taskforce could be a permanent sub-unit to the 7th fleet, commanded from the interdictor's central yet discreet role.
"Outer Rim Yacht Club" also allows for a degree of secrecy and discretion as the name does not instantly scream "We're Imperial Rebel Hunters".
It's also fun to hear your enemies say usually mundane titles with resentment or dread.
It's the Yacht club! Let's get out of here!
Indeed.
In my country one of the moat prestigeous squadrons is the "Condores Borrachos" or Drunken Condors
The RN flower class destroyers also did a fine job, HMS Rose by another name & all that
Task Force 89 would be a phenomenal Star Wars show. I wanna see how it was formed after an enterprising captain or commander realizes that the Rebellion's hit and run starfighter tactics will eventually overwhelm an entire military based on the Tarkin doctrine and have to convince the Imperial Admiralty that a new approach is needed. I'd watch the shit out of that show. Hot shot pilots learning that they have to be patient and tactical. Passionate and ambitious young officers learning how to play politics to manipulate leadership to give them what they want. It all sounds very Andor-eque and I want it.
Plus lets not forget getting around the ISB detachments on each ship looking for those straying from imperial doctrine.
ISB agent "This is not Imperial Doctrine..."
Task Group Commander "The Rebels have read Imperial doctrine and have counters to most of it. We must adapt doctrine to the situation to be more efficient hunters."
degenerates to argument... only to be interupted.
Darth Vader "Show me.."
ISB agent: "My lord this information has not been vetted and the doctrine has not been approved by COMPNOR...agggh"
"Show me what you have fund and how. Commander Piet."
Youjo Senki in space?
@@asepheleleshabalala1352 Saga of Tanya the imperial XD
Try reading the lost fleet series. It's along the same lines.
Plus lots of ship to ship engagements and that's always welcome.
This is the kind of quality military scifi content I live for. I am very surprised you didn't include any Lancer-class Frigates or some kind of dedicated anti-star fighter ships.
You beat me to it. I think it wasn't included because afaik it hasn't been shown off in the current visual canon or any of the books I can remember since unfortunately Rogue Squadron isn't fully canon anymore.
I think he didn’t include them for the same reason he didn’t include more Raiders. They don’t have the range to keep up with the fleet without a lot of underway replenishment, and the squadrons of Interceptors and Defenders should already be enough to handle fighters.
I was going to suggest the Starwing/Imperial Missile Boat from the TIE Fighter games, since these are very flexible and powerful jump capable heavy fighters, that could fulfil many of the roles of the TIE Bombers in the taskforce while being far more versatile
I think he didn't include iz because the Lancer is not Canon anymore. I was surprised to see the Victory and Phantom because of that, but then I remembered that the madlads from the Star Wars Armada Tabletop made both Canon again
@@drksideofthewal I think that is why he didn't either, but I think that is a mistake. I think the biggest doctrinal issue of the Empire has always been "our point defense is TIEs and (rarely) other Starfighters." The Interceptor and Defender are no doubt a major step up in evening the odds, but I feel that it is not wise to rely on them wholly for this kind of capital ship defense work, and would caution that it might be wise to keep a few lancers or raiders in reserve if I could. Hell, I've always been sorely tempted to rip out a third of the Turbolasers and Ion Cannons and fit antifighter laser cannons in their place. Even the Mon Cal Cruisers would still be marginally outgunned in that configuration. I am optimistically intrigued about the potential for greater Electronic Warfare as a means of fighting off bombing runs though.
I could see this fleet being Thrawn's pet. His favorite to send on hunting missions. Otherwise it would be sent on suicide missions by jealous admirals under the excuse of the fleet not sticking to Imperial dogma.
One thing they also have to watch out for is the potential infiltration by Force Sensitive Rebels.
Thrawn would have endorsed this fleet. If high command needed convincing that imperial doctrine needed to change, this would’ve been the test bed, and he would have had a hand in putting this together with all his clout. That would probably be why so many Defenders are in the fleet. And the Phantom.
They'd face the suicide missions which this fleet is designed to thrive in completing. All because they don't stick to imperial dogma. then you finish it all off with the fact that they enforce the will of the emperor better than every other fleet in the empire so much more efficiently that they put the rebels on the ropes, and devour pirates, smugglers, and other outlaws and renegades as snacks.
Imagine Tarkin sending them in a mission that they're supposed to fail because they fail to be intimidating enough but then the Task Force 89 just swoops in and pulls a Ceasar being all vini, vidi, vici on the mission and when other imperials just seethe the Commander of the Task Force acts like it was an *expected* regular victory
Without a powerful benefactor protecting the doctrine of the task force it would never work otherwise. It fundamentally flies in the face of the values espoused by the Empire.
In the Thrawn novel Treason, it was revealed that funding for the TIE Defender was moved to the Death Star, but the project itself was not canceled and Tarkin and Vader supported the project. Also it was never explicitly stated that ALL of the funding was diverted. My best guess would be that you'd have no problem getting a squadron or two per ISD.
In the legends timeline, the TIE Defender wasn’t a prototype, it was already completed and part of the imperial navy, though not as prominent as TIE fighters and bombers.
@@addisonwelsh And it wasn't prominent, because it was HIDEOUSLY expensive.
There's a quote somewhere that you for every TIE/D, you could buy squadrons, as in plural, THREE, of TIE/LN and that maintenance costs were not much better.
The TIE/Avenger is supposed to be right in the middle in regards to cost(each equal to just a halfdozen TIE/LN), so a far more plausible model to use.
Also this is imagined to be assembled ABY so I'm betting a lot of funding started getting directed to lots of other projects after seeing the colossal failure of the DS1.
Here's the thing, the rebels have a small fleet of capital ships and use fighters to combat them. The Tie Defender even though is expensive, they can afford a whole air wing if they cut budget. They literally have 25,000 SD, I'm very sure they could get 50 Tie Defenders and destroy the Rebels in their infancy.
@@warhammer8867 "I'm very sure they could get 50 Tie Defenders"
In theory, absolutely. But the empire is literally already always short on forces, because there's always something happening somewhere.
So, to get those 50 T/Ds, first you need to set up an actual production line instead of just keep going with handcrafted ones.
This is a massive investment. And would at minimum take the greater part of a year, might be several years due to the complexity of the craft.
After that, you would get maybe 1-6 T/D produced per week. And getting them faster is not automatically just better.
Because what do you do with the production line when you have your 50?
If you shut it down, you lose all the worker experience involved and it will take months to restart production.
If you keep it running, you get more T/Ds, and you reduce their overall costs slightly, but they will eat up even more of your budget.
Compare that with how you already have a functional system that delivers dozens or more likely hundreds of Tie/LN per week AND the pilots for them.
And the pricetag for production and maintenance of 50 T/D equals around 1800 T/LN. Ignoring the needed initial factory investment. And the time to create the production line.
Or, you keep going with the handcrafted ones, paying 2-3 times as much to build each T/D and build them at a rate of maybe 1/month.
From pretty much any point of view, this is a budgetary and logistics nightmare.
It's basically a miniature version of the Death star or any of the other absurdly costly special projects of the Empire.
Yes, it absolutely CAN be done, but it's going to hurt your wallet horribly.
And, can you honestly say that 50 T/D are better than 1800 T/LN?
This is probably the best of the pilot week ideas. It's a very fun way of analyzing and reimagining the original media, absolutely hooked for more.
Yep best one so far
Heavily agreed
Hear, hear!
I Would love to see some for Star Trek. Task forces/tactics for fighting the borg, or the Dominion.
Absolutely agree.
Thrawn was right as usual: his Defender program would have been highly effective against the Rebels, far more than anything Tarkin wasted the budget on.
Tarkin wasted the budget so that he could use all those credits to line the pockets of military manufacturers.
@@Gala-yp8nx Yeah that and crashing the doonium market
Tarkin was a fool, he focused too much on fear than efficiency. The moment the DS1 was destroyed that fear evaporated leaving nothing but hatred for the empire and a victorious rally cry for those rebel scum. Project Stardust was a colossal waste of time, money, personnel and resources.
The defender was an overengineered nightmare that relied on limited ressources whit those logistics being extreeeemly vulnerable to the rebels
Problem being it’s a TIE
Got any ideas for a future battlegroup? Here's some ideas I had.
Planetary Defense Fleet for a Forge World in Imperium Nihilus | Warhammer 40,000
UNSC Tank Division | Halo
Starfleet Exploration Fleet | Star Trek
40k ideas:
Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator fleet.
Imperial Navy Reserve fleet.
Fleet Based Chapter fleet.
Defense of corrusant fleet in the clone wars era/ how would the templine institute change the battle of corrusant, possible both for the defending and attacking fleets
I personally would vote for the Star Trek fleet
Perhaps an armored division for the Empire to shore up the weaknesses of the AT AT?
Or a rebel alliance planetary raid task force meant for rapid capture or rescue
Maybe a galactic republic fleet meant to deal with slavers?
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Free Planets Alliance Raid Task Force
Imperial Expedition Force
“Or maybe I introduced Grand Admiral Thrawn to Art Deco and now he owes me a favor.” I love the implications of this sentence, those being: an ISD, one of my favorite fictional ship designs, fitted with one of my favorite architecture periods of all time.
And considering that it’s Thrawn, one of THE most competent and dangerous Imperial officers, you’re bound to take leaps in competence levels and effectiveness.
This kind of series seems perfect for RTS games in particular. Homeworld especially would be a great setting to explore with this series.
This seems a documentary on how to create your Homeworld fleet, but for a massive search across the galaxy, having so many assets together would impair the search.
I wonder how well this fleet composition would do in an _Empire at War_ mod?
The Outer Rim Yacht Club will show the true tactical might of the Galactic Empire ... in style.
Probably well in AoTR. Not great in TR.
On it!
Twitch stream idea right here.
@@theluftwaffle1 I'd do it in a heartbeat.
You’d have to go into the files to change the fighter complements. I’m not intimately familiar with AoTR’s Imperial 2 fighter complements. Or if they even have the command Arquitens. Or Cantwell Arrestor cruiser. Basically, would have to do some modifying and adding in stuff that probably isn’t already there
With regard to possible Interdictor redundancy I would equip all vessels with Gravity Well Mines. Sure once activated both sides can't jump to Hyperspace until they deactivate, but Task Force 89's purpose is to hunt down the Rebels. Unless your Commander bites off more than he can chew I think that that would add some tactical flexibility as well.
With reconnaissance elements deploying them ahead of the fleet. Trapping the Rebels and allowing your force to perform the Thrawn Pincer manoeuvre. Catching an enemy force entirely by surprise and out of position. With their annihilation or capture coming shortly afterward.
Otherwise this is a great makeup for a Rebel Hunting force. Looking forward to seeing the Rebel Raiding Force.
With these, as well, standard TIEs would be more practical as since they don't have hyperdrives anyway, their usefulness against Rebel starfighters would increase substantially.
Those mines could easily be stored and deployed from the bay on the arquitens underside.
Interdiction systems take lots of power and their vessels suffer for it (those that have it anyway). Nothing wrong with having multiple ones tactically, but on a strategic front that is one more ship you send that is half a ship or less of otherwise effective combat potentialy.
After two interdictors, you are basically just throwing money away on the ships.
As far as the lower range mines go, they last a half hour or less, must be deployed, and have limited range. GREAT if setting up an ambush for known enemy assets. But those mines are temporary things otherwise, and likely use some valuable materials, some of which may not be reusable even after recharging and maintaining the ones that are.
Edit: the mines low range means that its just a matter of escaping fighters finding a gap too.
@@SephirothRyu That's the beauty of Gravity Well Mines they have their own internal power source. Allowing vessels to carry them without consuming their own internal power supplies.
And while it's true that starfighters could find the gaps in the interdiction fields I find it hard to believe that that would happen if the field was deployed in accordance with a predetermined pattern.
Additionally that could factor into your strategy leaving only a single exit vector which your fleet is blocking. Leaving the enemy with no choice but to either come to you and get into a battle they can't win. Or flee at sublight speed through the field allowing the task force time to destroy a couple of their ships.
Remember the imperial navy doesn't have to destroy all the Rebels in one fell swoop. Attritional Warfare is the name of the game and the rebellion will have a far tougher time acquiring new ships and more importantly experienced crews than the empire.
There is a fan animation that followed your description.
Would have been interesting if you'd included your 'fleet train' (logistics formation) to your battlegroup. As you touched on, the lifeblood of any combat formation is their logistics trail.
This fleet especially, with how missile-happy it is.
If I was the rebels dealing with this group of "yachts" my response would be to target the convoys before they leave whatever planet they are starting from; because I do not want to attack them where the Yacht Club fights best. Or sabotage the missiles to explode in the magazine. Or even better get some of my ships into the convoy to deliver some friendly marines to make themselves at home in the Imp Star Deuces and X-wings for a hit and run on the shields/Interdictor.
@@homeonegreen9 I'm sure the Templin Institute would consider that if including a fleet train. Covering your weaknesses was a big feature in this video.
Yeah I would expect a few logistics vessels just for this group probably not anything like an Altus class replenishment ship as that thing is more for a sector fleet, but maybe a few smaller freighters for fuel and munitions
"Building Your Battlegroup" is a fantastic idea for a series! I can't wait for the Rebel Alliance, Republic, and Separatist fleets to get their own episode, not to mention other sci-fi franchises like Star Trek.
Starships are my favorite part of any science-fiction universe, and Star Wars certainly has most of my all-time favorite fleets, ships, and overall aesthetics. Determining a proper force to take on their respective challenges is a very interesting idea, and I love it!
I would also like to see the first order and resistance.
@@cameronprice4922 Similar fleets, vastly different roles. Not a big fan, but still interesting.
Building you battlegroup for the rebellion might be tricky, given you have to take into account their resources and make it realistic. You'll probably end up with whta the rebellion already has.
@@stenroelofs9077 But you could fill different roles with the ships they have. Doesn't have to be a fleet, just a "wolf pack" for hit and run attacks. Their specialty is fighters and bombers, so I'd imagine it'd center around them.
I want to see them handle the Colonial Fleet from BOTH the Original Series and the Ron D. More Battlestar Galactica.
You could also use the TIE Phantom as an assassin. For example if you notice the falcon or a VIP fleeing the area you can use the Phantom to disable or destroy them. Love this and I can’t wait to see more
or ghost them until more favorable conditions for destroying them with the main force are meet
This is a brilliant concept, and one that I think could easily be fleshed out into a really interesting story. The rebels HAVE to take on this battle group in some sort of pitched battle because if they don't, it'll pick them off one by one. It's the PERFECT sort of "Episode II" type threat that has meaningful stakes and is the perfect kind of follow-up to show that it's an asymmetric battle.
I also think that it could easily be a great plot justification for why the Empire focuses on "dumb" tactics. If the admiral leading this group was defeated, the other admirals could use that as evidence that "it doesn't work" even if it extracted a massive toll on the rebels before dying.
Just seeing more of how wars are won and lost by politics would solve a lot a plot issues I have with the setting and films.
Not to mention that if the Rebels know this fleet will want to attack them, they will set up in a place that's hostile to the order of battle of this group, also.
Hollywood will not touch political
I’m imagining the commander of that task force as sort of the Captain Canady of the Empire, someone who knew what they were doing, but was compromised by their colleagues complete incompetence
@@ElysiumCreatorsounds about right 😂
Excellent suggestion 👍
I would have loved if you guys added a final segment where you pit this formation against a standard rebel fleet and we get to watch your idea play out.
There is no such thing as a standard rebel fleet. They are usually whatever civilian ship that they found and retrofitted with cannons.
I would love to see this fleet tested in the Star Wars Empire at War game with the Thrawn expansion.
@@kx4998 True. Most Rebel task forces seem to be compromised, at least shortly before Endor, A Mon Calamari Cruiser or two, a couple of Nebulon-B Frigates, Maybe an Assault Frigate, a few corvettes, normally CR90s, and a couple of Gunships.
His formation would crush this easily.
Maybe set them against the Rebel Fleet at Atollon.
Since Rebels almost always operate in small numbers, their strategy depends on delivering single crippiling blow. Therefore by evenly distributing the forces of the fleet, you push them into prolonged battles that they do not have the manpower to fight. Excellet work!
Then the rebels easily defeat you in detail, falling for their strategy
I think the main issue of chasing after the rebellion with a fleet is the logistic. You’re basically a fleet of thousands of men constantly moving from one system to another… your supply line must be able to somehow adjust your random flight pattern. Overstretching them in the process. And knowing that disguising themself as one of a supply ship is a tactic the rebel like to use, your fleet might end up easily infiltrated from behind while you’re chasing after the lure in front of you
yeah, real world Hunter-Killer groups (primarly thouse used in WW2 for hunting U-boats) rarely got anything like this, they were almost entirely escort ships repurposed (an escort carrier + frigates) rather than front line units being repurposed.
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777Yeah, but that was because they were pretty much only hunting U-boats (with the few surface raiders being virtual non-threats to even destroyers). Who didn't stand a chance in a straight fight against anything and relied on extremely limited stealth to get kills. And in the early war when, such direct combat threats did exist, the Allies didn't have the resources to spare to actively hunt them down. And the few groups that were formed did include cruisers or battleships. This is almost the exact opposite of the Empires situation where the Rebels are near continuously gaining capital vessels and the Empire has fewer the further the war progresses.
Agreed. This would be a pretty conspicuous fleet. A fleet like this seems like it would be best used to constantly patrol and make itself known in pockets of space with likely rebel activity, but the fleet itself purposely avoiding direct confrontation until a trap is set or a rebel cell has been physically located, then then rush in full-force and wipe them out.
This is why I see this fleet is lacking covert manned long-range surveillance craft. To this end it would make sense for a fleet with this mission profile to be working directly with the ISB or naval intelligence to build and utilize a broad range of surveillance assets including passive scanners at ports, local informants, covert sensors and probe droids, and disguised patrol/reconnaissance craft such as Gozanti-class cruisers made to look like civilian craft, but actually housing all sorts of hidden high-power sensors and listening devices. For the price and crew complement of a single Imperial-class Star Destroyer you could have about 400 Gozanti-class cruisers (a standard Gozanti-class cruiser is only 200,000 credits), so 400 is assuming these would be doubly expensive because of the retrofits necessary for the task. Since an ISD has a crew of 37,000, and assuming we’re replacing a single ISD with a surveillance and intelligence-gathering group, you’d need a maximum of 5000 crew for the Gozanti-class cruisers leaving 32,000 additional personnel for special operations, and surveillance. These spies could be dropped off for months-long stays by the covert Gozantis at thousands of port cities around the Outer Rim in groups of two with a disguised droid, and set up to subtly gather intelligence and data for the fleet. The idea would be that these spies would blend in as best as possible, just identify possible subversive or rebel activity and monitor that activity for signs of an opportunity to strike a significant blow to the rebellion by the fleet. These ships and spies, of course, would never directly engage the rebels so they could remain hidden and the rebels wouldn’t even know to be on the lookout for them. These spies would have to be strictly vetted and selected based on their loyalty to the Empire.
"Outer Rim Yacht Club" makes it sound like your Task Force is having their time of their lives on the pleasure cruise equivalent of a Texas Hog-shoot, while the rest of the Imperial Navy were getting absolutely btfo by the guys you are hunting for sport. Incredibly powerful energy from the name.
👍You've earn yourself a Star My General. I'd say the very best Task Force.
-The Good Thing : It's the most realistic Fleet and your doctrine will make it twice efficient.
-The Bad : The rebells will flee out of your sector within weeks.
-The Ugly part : Your Supply-chain of high tech hardware and missiles will be your Achille's heel.
PS : Most Starwars does not use missiles, when the very first video game came out they legitimately build ships without them; The critics was so fierce about "how dumb it was" force them to had missiles in the very first patch. After this the sells clearly rises. Too much StarWars can kill StarWars.
Wasn't it explained that on galactic scale missiles are too expensive?
On The Bad: If the rebels abandon the sector in fear of this fleet, the fleet is doing its job. If the Rebels need to dig into that particular sector, they would need to organize an attack on the Task Force itself to remove it from the field, which would be difficult to say the least. In all cases, the Rebellion’s operations in that sector would be critically disrupted by Task Force 89. Mission Accomplished.
thats why you move the fleet into the next sector.
The fact that this fleet leverages such advanced hardware is it's advantage, not it's Achilles's heel: Like Marc said, Quality, not Quantity. The Empire, with it's massive industrial complex, should easily be able to support at least several of such battle-groups. Resupply would only be an issue if said group was required for continuous, high-intensity deployment, not the sporadic engagements this task force is optimized for: that sort of thing is better suited towards a more conventional fleet.
I think you mean Grand Admiral.
Here is my version of this fleet/task force.
Main Battle Line:
3 x ISD1
2 x Interdictor Cruisers
2 x Victory 1 (Dedicated escort for interdictors)
2 Escort Groups:
1 x Arquitens Command Cruiser
2 x Arquitens Light Cruiser
2 x Raider Corvettes
1 x IGB Listening Ship
-TTI: "I need a professional in this position, not someone who's going to abandon the formation at the first shot of personal glory."
-that sounds like a 'shot' at Admiral K. Konstantine
As for the imagined Task Force 89, I gotta say that the Interdictor was the component I was thinking to be one of the most crucial, and adding the Victory II Class SD for dedicated defense of the Interdictor is a must. Since the role of these two ships is defense and containment, then standard TIEs would be adequate for additional defense of these capitol ships as the fighter compliment here is not required for pursuit or other roles that standard TIEs are not suited for. The rest of the task force seems sound through the given explanations for their assigned purpose.
Btw, if you're looking for someone to command either the Interdictor or Victory II SD, my resume of dedicated defensive strategy and implementation, as well as an appreciation for the bigger picture and not personal glory, will be submitted for consideration. 😉 Long live the Empire.
The Surveyor-class reconnaissance frigate would be a good addition in place of the recon Raiders
That's not a shot at Konstantine That's a full Salvo. At minimum a full broadside.
@@Exaldear 😆 for sure.
@@skyden24195 excuse the typo. Even if it was accurate. Fixed it.
@@Exaldear no worries, I understood the intended wording either way.
I appreciate how you spent a lot of time explaining the ideological obstacles the empire has in place to being able to effectively fight a rebellion, a lot of people when they build their own "killer fleets" often ignore why the empire they're building for didn't do that in the first place, so establishing the internal hurdles is both a good way to explain why tgis didn't happen in the series logically, while also avoiding any accidental blind compliments that attract *those* kinda people. (The ones that don't realize why the fascist are the bad guys.)
Just another reason you're among the best.
I do also like how you've designed a fleet with an obvious purpose and an obvious weakness; Ambush, and Ambush. It's taken every precaution possible, to the point of weakening it's overall power and fighting capabilities, to ensure it can never be caught out under-prepared, because if it is...
Besides being thematically satisfying, it also gives the fleet not just a practical purpose, but a narrative one too, something else a lot of people miss out on.
The weakness even still fits into some of the empire's thematics and philosophy, giving reason as to why it's still an empire fleet outside of the fact it's using their equipment.
I could easily see some young, headstrong admiral heading this fleet, his initial naval superiority over the rest of the empire and clear results giving him an ego and confidence in his ships/crew that they could spot any ambush before it even starts to form, and the rebel plot to take him down involving espionage and betrayal from older, jealous higher-ups giving up secrets of some of his ships (maybe a former Superior he beat who insists he only won because he had "perfect" information and wouldn't last an hour in a "real" fight (maybe this is even how the rebels find out the tie phantom exists), and an ambush point months in the making, using said data to hide perfectly from the escorts. Maybe even a direct sacrifice of a major rebel leader to draw him out, smelling blood and glory in the water, and the trap being forced to spring early to prevent a call for reinforcement (perhaps that aforementioned former Superior wants the glory of rescuing the "lucky rookie" and to see the shame on his face during the dress-down), leading to a far longer and bloodier battle than either side was ready for.
It's the kinda fleet that can both show up as an impending doom in one story and be the central focus of it in another without diminishing its power and impact in the former.
Amazing work.
I’ve been laughing at the name “outer rim yacht club” for 4 days.
I hope this becomes a series. I’ve watched this like 8 times already.
Answer: Put Thrawn in charge.
If every battle was a battle of Attalon, the rebellion would be bled dry by hoth probably even before
Best way to win any war in the Star Wars Galaxy.
Step 1: Build a time machine (if you're the Galactic Empire, skip to step 2).
Step 2: Find Mitth'raw'nuruodo.
Step 3: Brief him on the enemy you're facing and give him any of their cultural artifacts your faction has.
Step 4: Put him in command of all your forces or in a position where he can easily gain access whatever resources he needs.
Step 5: Sit back and start taking bets for how fast your faction will win.
Lol that didn't work out in Bilbringi.
@@HolyknightVader999 only because one of the bodyguards of thrawn stabbed him in the back, trawn would have won or at least been able too retreat and fight on his terms later if that wasn’t the case
@@art-games6230 By that point, Joruus already decided to betray him, so even if he did live, his days were numbered.
Love taskforce 89's mission patch. I would absolutely love the idea of being posted here as opposed to 'The Death Seekers' or 'Menacing Maulers' or whatever.
As others have pointed out TIE reapers could help with your e-warfare angle rather than retrofitting Lamda shuttles. however in my opinion going with Lamdas is super smart as the Reapers are YET ANOTHER TIE variant that you'dh ave to call favors in on. Plus the Lamda is a super common platform. So if your idea of outfitting them for e-warfare works out, that might spread fleetwide, and even if it doesn't take off overal it's still a super common platform that shouldn't be too taxing for repair crews and it's super cheap in terms of Favors.
Turning Thrawn on to Art Deco as way to get just that little bit extra to get a stealth craft fo both advanced scouting and in-battle intel? Genius. I could see Thrawn knowing from the onset you're trying ot squeeze a favor, but both being impressed at the manouver, and happily enjoying the gift for its own sake. That and incorporating TIE Defenders into the formation would go a long way to put you in his good graces. that might make enemies out of other more hindbround sorts, but they are letting their ego impede results thus their opinions can go out the airlock for all I care.
the inclusion of gravity mines is a good cheap redundant way to force an engadgement if the interdictor is either indisposed or you need to cast a wider net. Fine, you're stuck to, but by and large? You have the bigger guns thus 'I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with Me.'
Most importantly though? Overriding the ship comp? Is the attitude you want fostered amongst the taskforce members. Healthy cooperation, camraderie, ties that bind beyond fanatic loyalty and selfish ambition. That is a taskforce I would request a transfer to.
Yeah I'm a big fan of the Lambda idea, as it parallels the IRL successful use of transport(ish) craft to perform AWACs type tasks. We know it works for real fleets, and I imagine it would be similarly efficient for the Outer Rim Yacht Club. Also avoids yet another procurement hassle, as I'd presume the recon equipment and fitting would be far easier to pull off than requesting an entirely new craft be purpose-built.
The Victory I is the Concussion Missile variant. Victory IIs had them all replaced with Ion Cannons
shit really? I swear I checked that like a dozen times.
@@TemplinInstitute Yep. Was a bit confused why Ion Cannons would escort, and then you said concussion missiles. Though basing it from your words, it seems like you thought even IIs could have concussion missiles, since you did say modify to, but that never actually happened, the Empire would just use a Victory I
@@Drave_Jr. yeah they just modified the victory 1 to have ion cannons instead of the other way around
@@TemplinInstitute No you were right, later sources retconned VSD-IIs to have Concs as well, with the ions being a rare refit
no the Vic 2s came with 20 missile launchers some had them swapped for Ion cannons
There's only a single thing lacking on your Imperial Task Force and that I find extremely important to give it a more sophisticated line of defense against enemy starfighters. A squadron of Lancer-class frigates, ideally 12, but 6 could be enough.
Thought so two. The hero’s tend to ambush with fighter so I’d rather not be caught defenseless while I launch fighters.
@@4klegion630 without a doubt need a lancer or two guarding the interdictor since it would be the highest priority target for fighters and replace the victory with a gladiator, its made for the role, packs the greatest punch for its cost than any other imperial ship and the savings could be put towards the deadliest part of the fleet. a wolf pack of 8 raiders outfitted for torpedos and bombers. the interdictor holds the enemy, the star destroyers rout them, the arquitens funnels their retreat, then the raiders use the interdictors gravity well to make a precise hyperspace jump in the perfect position to blow them apart.
maybe its my time flying a stealth bomber in EVE but this battlefield shaping hammer and anvil stuff i think is the most effective way you can go about completely eradicating an enemy.
One issue with this is that the lancer isn't fast enough to keep pace with the rest of the fleet at top speed and I'm pretty sure this video is exclusively using canon ship's and the lancer is legends.
@@Shark_boiiiii none of the listed speeds make any sense the lancer especially. so we cant really know if the lancer actually would get left behind by the interdictor.
I agree, the fleet is lacking a ship for antistarfighter duties. However as others have said the Lancer is indeed too slow. Repurposing and modifying a Nebulon B or Dreadnought Crusier for laser cannons or something like the Carrack class would all be great choices.
The Victory II didn't had the missile launchers anymore. Those were removed for tractor beams and ion-cannons if i remember right. Which would make them even more useful for your task force i think.
No, the Victory I would be better as a dedicated escort since missiles are much more effective at very long ranges and relatively effective against starfighters that slipped through the net
I hope the next episode of this series is you designing the perfect Rebel Counter Task Force for this.
Could be very interesting, especially if you take the Ragtag nature of the Rebel Fleet into consideration.
Man, just seeing someone take a very critical eye an actually put resources that are easily accessible in the Empire to such terrifyingly effective use makes my head spin.
i can already image an imperial commander giving a lecture on powerpoint in front of the emperor on many high ranking members of the imperial navy of this task force during like some sort of imperial military lecuture
"Imperial Holiday Blooper Reel."
Never in my life would I have thought I'd hear that string of words together in a sentence.
And I LOVE IT! LOL!
Jumped over here from Perun. It's both weird, and weirdly fun to come back and critique Star Wars knowing way more than I did when I was a kid, about how military logistics and organization works.
Maybe an addition to building your battlegroup you could add building your ship, where you design a cost-effective craft for an alternate interstellar navy.
Also, I think a great challenge for building your battle group would be creating an anti-reaper task force from Mass Effect. That one will be hard.
Speaking of taskforce, it baffles me how canon won’t bring back the rebel Specforce from legends. There’s nothing in it that could contradict their capabilities. Crix was a big part of helping them achieve more.
Isn't that what Cara Dune was?
@@weldonwin Cara dune was a NR-Shocktrooper, the spec force was mre likely to go sabotage the death stars main reactor, than go and just pummel a few unlucky stormtroopers.
I mean, a lot of legends stuff can exist in a psuedo-canonical sense in terms of "if there's not any explicit contradiction it's probably fine".
Something like SpecForce might not exactly fit pre-R1/ANH, since they're trying to show that era of the rebellion as having more disconnected and guerilla tactics. However, post-ANH they'd definitely fit in.
Yeah that would make a great series actually. Why is Lucasfilm going all in on stuff happening in between the trilogies is beyond me.
@@BoisegangGaming after they decanonized Clone Stormtroopers anything stupid enough thing can happen
You guys would make a great imperial warlord group.
What if thrawn has such a fleet in ahsoka he well unmatced
@@mathiasbasse9553 Except for plot armor, I agree.
@@loganw1232 yes everting but that
@@loganw1232 The rebellion was galactic wide and had the backing and funding of most major corporations. It also helped that the Empire was pretty much only liked in the Core. The Rebels are still going to have fighter, light ship, and bomber superiority and capital ships that directly counter ISDs. Not beat in a one on one; counter. VSD 2s would actually do better. This task force would be avoided like the plague, lol!
"There's not much the Imperial Navy's done these last few years that's made me at all nervous, but Task Force 89? That worries me." - Rear Admiral Anniyah Winter, Screeching Mynocks (Alliance Stensen Sector Fleet), after reading a detailed intelligence report about the 'Outer Rim Yacht Club'.
An amazing task force. If the empire actually assembled this, the rebels wouldn't stand a chance.
and if they assembled a dozen of these. the rebels and any pirates, smugglers, and ne'er-do-wells would be finished, devoured in an instant.
A little late but what about stormtroopers and other ground pounders you may need for Task Force 89? Sure the task force may be able to kill anything it comes across but what about when it needs a scalpel for sensitive things like boarding actions and door kicking? The rebellion won't just be in ships all the time and will be needed to be rooted out from planets and stations. Being able to capture enemy commanders would also be a great boon for intelligence. I'm mostly imagining and taking from real life examples of how much SOF groups are used in the War on Terror, where just bombing things isn't exactly always a good option.
Also late but Rebel Corvettes and Frigates can basically counter this fleet by whittling away at the fleet while few of the Task force’s armaments are effective
@@navinnakwek5851 I dont know that he need this elements, because he said at the beginning that the task force should hunt rebel ships and not to participate on these "door kicking" things
@@poushie1233 nah 1:1 the Imperial classes are superior to the rebellion counterpart.
I really liked this pilot. I would love to see this one get an ongoing series. There are so many factions out there, and you can even use the same faction for different scenarios in that same universe.
Okay, this is the best choice of new series.
Ah, the TIE Defender and Interceptor, the ships Star wars ignored because they were too strong for the bad guys to have them.
TIE/ad "Avenger" sad noises
14:20 I think what you are actually referring to is a Victory I class SD, which is the original, missile equipped, variant. The Victory II deleted the missiles in favour of heavy turbolasers.
Edit:Another idea may be to include the Cygnus Space Works XG-1 Starwing as a reconnisance platform instead of the recon Lambda Shuttle. The Starwing is a starfighter not only capable of performing long range reconnisance, but also engaging targets of oppertunity independently, and even providing direct support during larger actions.
Heavy turbolasers, heavy ion cannons and additional tractor beams since they were made to brawl, disable then capture for the VSD II
He is likely referring to later sources that instead said most VSD-IIs had missiles instead of ion cannons. With the main difference between the VSD-I and VSD-II being updated systems.
@@evanhenderson1760 I was just staying the types of armaments the VSD II had over the VSD I, personally I prefer the VSD I though it’s engines and hyperdrive are still a pretty good problem that is fixed by the VSD II
@@jangoman0977 oh of course, I was just saying that the newer into templin was likely working with states that VSD-IIs had roughly the same missile armament as the VSD-I, and that only a rare few of the IIs had ion cannons.
And the most important part better engines to keep up with the isd
I'm curious if "building your battlegroup" would apply to ground assets. Solders and their weapons, vehicles and their role, etc.
11:27 I see every arquitens in your fleet is carrying a squadron of ties. the light an command variants of the arquitens can hold up to 2 or 3 tie fighters, only the 546 variant seen in the Mandalorian can hold an entire squadron. Anyway, great video, would love to see more of these kind!
I was so excited for this pilot and it did not disappoint! Your videos on tanks and navies have been such a help for my own writing and worldbuilding and I'm so excited for more videos like this!
The perfect imperial task force is a Death Star without an exhaust port that leads to the main reactor.
*when the Death Star has multiple exhaust ports....*
Now that's a recipe for an infestation
That's just a giant bomb...
@@Julian-pw5mv with multiple fuses.
The problem is the Death Star is expensive and can only be in one system at a time. Even if they don’t destroy it, the station getting damaged would take it out of service for months.
I think you forgot about the starfighter contingent of the Victory II. Since it’s role will be escorting the Interdictor. Filling the hangar with Tie Interceptors would be best.
He doesn’t explicitly mention it but if you look under the picture of the Victroy II, you can see it’s star fighter compliment and it is interceptors. Pause it at 16:08
And a squadron of tie defenders will also work for the hanger of the victory 2
@@S4EGEF9RDgaming not really. The defenders are mainly offensive. The interceptors are designed to protect he ship and, since the Victory II will be sticking clode to the Interdictor, it will be far behind the main battle line so defenders just aren‘t needed
Love this video format and I think this was an excellent Imperial fleet composition! Two small tweaks: 1. A small, elite commando group for recon. They'd board disabled Rebel ships and stations to extract prisoners/intel and learn about shipyards and movements. I'd place them aboard a Raider, Lamda, or assault shuttle. 2. 1-3 Lancer frigates as anti-starfighter bulwarks. While your quality TIEs would suffice most of the time, they could potentially be tied up or overwhelmed by a massed Alliance fighter/gunship/corvette swarm, allowing bombers to slip through and strike Murderer's Row. If your fleet is maxed out, maybe trade 1-2 regular Arquetins for Lancers. Intel from the commandos might also help expose unusually large fighter accumulations.
Very fun video concept, I'm psyched to see you apply this to other factions and universes!
The inclusion of the TOE Punisher is something I hadn’t seen coming since I thought hardly anyone new about it’s existence, but to see it implemented into a highly elite fleet is pretty cool.
super smart saving this video as a...."flagship" piece of content:). I agree with your line-up 90-95%. I wouldn't grab tie defenders as its a bit of a copout. BUT I would give each ISD and the interdictor, 2 lancers. I personally love the victory class but it might be too slow for how nimble the fleet needs to be. great vid!
Only downside is that the Lancer is 1/3 the subspace speed of the ISD. Maybe as pickets for the Interdictor though.
@@simonnance I didn't know that! good call.
This fleet is supposed to align with the Disney canon so lancers should be swapped out for standard raiders. Later on he does talk about raiders and their roles but this is partially false. While it does make sense that raiders are corvettes and thus operate in coastal defence settings, in the comics at least, raiders are known to be very independent and operate extremely long ranges. So I think an escort of 2 raiders per ISD as point defence for the main batteline works
@@captwaffle1361 the Raider and Lancer and nowhere near comparable. The former is smaller, faster and more maneuverable corvette, with a mixture of light turbolasers and heavy laser canons. A flexible multi-role craft.
The latter is a much larger and slower frigate, bristling with a boat-load of quad laser canons. A dedicated anti-fighter platform, and nothing else.
@@simonnance Fair enough. I just don't see any effective canon counterpart for the lancer frigate for picket duties
I'd include a couple of squadrons of Starwings, AKA the Imperial Missile Boat. These were very powerful, jump capable heavy fighters produced by Cygnus Spaceworks, who built the Lambda shuttles. As the name implies, they carried big banks of missiles including concussion missiles and proton torpedoes, as well as standard heavy blasters and ion cannons. In many ways, they are a precursor to the TIE Defenders and were probably significantly cheaper to source
i second this motion, the Assault Gunboat has the best weapons and shields to make up for lack of manoeuvrability, they pair up well with advanced TIEs such as the Defender or Avenger lines
@@trippyulyanov2012 Even normal Interceptors would be suitable (albeit not as optimal) for covering the Assault Gunboats, so you wouldn't have to call in favors to acquire squadrons to cover other squadrons you spent your (presumably quite valuable) favors on
I love the idea of designing an imperial battlegroup with an emphasis on starfighter quality and effective reconnaissance to make up for the empire's biggest shortfalls. Here is my take;
I think your fleet's reliance on a wide variety of "wunderwaffen" type craft can work against it's intended purpose. By complicating the process of supply, maintenace and replacement of such weapons, you basically guarantee there will be downtime, maintenance problems and hesitancy to commit to battle, which can nullify any benefits.
My fleet design would look very similar, but I would drop the wunderwaffen for just more "medium-tier-tech" like more tie interceptors and tie bombers, or alternatively commit to just one specialty craft like the tie defender. I would also drop the Victory-II in favor of more escort corvettes/cruisers since most attacks will come from smaller foes anyway. Finally, I would double/tripple up on the listening ships (and use them alot), drop the cantwell which isn't suited for frontline combat, and let the corvettes keep their weapons in-place for use in more surgical operations, away from the main task force.
Using 3-5 Imperial classes as the backbone of the task-force, I would then further sub-divide the force, splitting off single star destroyer task-forces (including escorts) to patrol a larger area, making sure to leave the main fleet with at least two star destroyers (including escorts) as a hardpoint & escort for the immobilizer.
It is good that there are no budgetary constraints in scifi fiction...
I could not have done this better. You are truly a master strategist, Commander Templin.
Pretty well thought out. I can only think of a few things I would modify. I'm going under the assumption that this whole fleet is classified and would want to keep a lower than normal profile.
1) The need for logistics ships. Sure you can stop by a base to resupply, but I'm sure they're being monitored. A few dedicated ships popping into a base won't be drawing as much attention as a battle fleet. Also, you would want them directly attached instead of requesting them from someone else. That way they know the fleet, how it operates, what to do when, etc..
2) I would have at least one, but preferably two escort carriers with Tie fighters and some shuttles. Mainly for three reasons.
Reason one, the TIE's would be perfect for CAP around the fleet. They're enough to defend while your more advanced fighters take off. This saves a lot of flight and maintenance hours on your "top shelf" spacecraft. Let the TIE's be the speed bump. They would also work for escorting other ships in areas you don't want the people seeing what you have. I.e. You need to visit a base on a populated planet. You show up with TIE Defenders, someone's gonna notice and start asking questions. You show up with TIE's, not so much.
Reason two, pilot training. You want your pilots to keep at it in regards with training. I'd rather they do the simple stuff just to get flight hours in a cheap TIE instead of an Interceptor. Most training would be on their specific craft, but with a few things done on TIE's, you'd save some more hours on your harder hitting stuff.
Reason three, spares. You'd have a place to keep a few extra fighters, shuttles, and other support craft so you could free up a few more spots on the big ships.
Palpatine tried to make a military able to take out the Yuuzhon Vong but they couldn’t even kill the rebels
that's precisely *why* he couldn't kill the Rebels.
@@TemplinInstitute well heckles! Looks like the Yacht club'll need reconfiguring when the vong come knocking then. Supposing the empire doesn't panic and throw their credits at making super weapons.
@@TemplinInstitute based and sheeve pilled
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Honestly, looking at the loadout, all the Yacht Club would need to do is trade the electronic warfare ships in for something with more staying power. The main battle line is perfectly functional as long as they keep up with evolving tech and tactics. Three SDs plus modified interceptors, defenders, bombers and punishers would still be a credible threat to a similar sized vong battlegroup. So just trade the EW escorts in for more Arquitens and maybe a couple of Lancers.
Dunno about the Interdictor, as it's been a while since I read TNJO and I'm fuzzy on if interdiction fields worked on dovin-basals. If it does then keep it on. If not then maybe trade it in for another SD.
Sledgehammers aren't great for swatting gnats.
"Ok, we've got two more assignments. We need to deal with some persistent rebel raids on our crucial trade lanes. Oh, and then there's rumors of some activity over by Dantooine, nothing too firm but it's a possibility. It just so happens you have two battlegroups just entering readiness, Grand Admiral."
"Hmm, what fleets are those?"
"'Task Force 86, 'The Outer Rim Yacht Club', and Task Force 88, 'Formidable Judgement,' sir."
"88, that's Moff whatisfaces' boy, what was it..."
"The young Admiral Woyetta, yes. I do understand his father is the Moff Woyetta. My understanding is that this is his first combat command. 86 had some remarkable performance in the latest war games against--"
"Maneuvers are one thing, but guts are another. Woyetta was a big man in the Clone Wars, I'm sure his boy knows what's what. And I need some pull if I'm going to get anything done with the next set of requisitions. Get 88 on those raids, get him some seasoning and some glory. Now, I've got a meeting about the new Nightmare-class they're working on; something about the forward viewscreens being a problem. Deal with the rest."
Congratulations on your 500th video! I've been a subscriber since your earliest days, and it makes me happy to see you've come so far. Personally, I think your channel is an undervalued one on this platform at the moment.
As for the video, I think you are lacking a wolfpack tactic level of a separate warship squadron. Capable of providing firepower while not being weak as a fighter yet speedy enough that chasing down larger ships won't be an issue. Perhaps something like a frigate wolfpack?
In terms of scouting ships, there are dedicated tie fighters you can use that have pretty decent hyperdrives and good sensors. The appropriately named tie scout is literally designed for the exact purpose you want with powerful sensors and one of t he best hyperdrives ever equipped to a starfighter it can jump into a system and scout for your main forces.
Some other notes, only the victory 1 is equipped with the missile banks with the 2 replacing them for more ion cannons for disabling rebel ships, but the victory 1 is also older and slower then the 2 so yeah.
In terms of additions, would probably try and squeeze in some Lancer frigates as dedicated fighter removal vessels even with the good fighters you have, as those are some of the few imperial ships rebel starfigher jockeys actively fear and avoid at all costs (even rogue squadron) because this thing can just delete fighters with its absurd number of point defense guns and those are pretty small and probably not too hard to get a handful of them to sprinkle into the formation. If you for some reason can’t get lancers, the IPV 1 system patrol craft can work as a fairly cheap alternative or you could do what the rebels did and buy some modular CR-90 corvettes fitted with as many laser cannons as possible, as the empire did make use of cr90’s during the galactic civil war. Any one of these ships can make your starfighter screens even more effective and protect your capital ships from any pesky bombers that manage to slip by.
i could easily see this fleet as a junior asigned formation to thrawn. like he is trying to teach the one in command of the fleet how to be his successor or someone capable to call in the case he will MAYBE ever need help
I love this because it reminds me of my Star Wars Armada fleet building process. In that mind I will say there was not enough Gladiators
I think this is a very reusable formation that could definitely achieve what you have in mind for it. All you need is good commanders and this will definitely put the rebels on the back foot. So far loving the content
It’s set up kind of like the New Republic’s 5th Fleet in Legends.
Wouldn't TIE Reapers be able to fill that electronic warfare role?
Absolutely, they would probably be even better in the role for the same reason I chose the Arquitens - Reapers likely share a lot of the same spare parts, etc, as my fighter wings. I chose the Lambda for two reasons, I think they have better hyperdrives, which are probably harder to swap out, and I just love those ships so much.
If Thrawn came back to me and said "no Lambdas, here's some Reapers instead" I'd be totally fine with that though.
@@TemplinInstitute The Lamda has an advantage in being super common as a platform. So you aren't spending clout ot try getting your mitts on a super rare TIE variant when you've already spent a bunch of that very finite resource as is (That said cluing Thrawn in on Art Deco is a genius move on your part for getting just that little bit extra political currency to spend.)
Having Lambdas as scouts also has a hidden advantage - they are so ubiquitous that no one really looks at one twice. Especially if they combined electronic surveillance with HUMINT from deployed Imperial Special Forces, which could easily be carried.
It's the old "it's a fishing trawler, honest" trick. Pick someone people wouldn't look at twice.
It also can carry more people and stuff and has longer endurance.
@@simonnance I think there used to be a dedicated scout version of the Tie fighter in some of the old games. Like in base EAW.
@@simonnance I was thinking the exact same thing.
"Sounds like a 1 prop diesel engine, sir."
"Aint no submarines like that. Helm, take us on a new course."
Meanwhile, sensor data is flooding back to command ops.
The main weakness of the fleet is actually imperial politics. The second a recon ship is destroyed, there will be pressure to turn it into a gunboat instead. And most officers are cruel and selfish, so good luck keeping them from infighting while scouting.
I would love to see this done for either the Covenant or UNSC mid war.
I'd say the Covenant and the UNSC had decent fleet dipositions
@@marcofava something like 24ish Marathons and 190something Frigates during the first map of Halo 2 vs 2 CAS assault carriers and 13 CCS class Battlecruisers.
Best pilot so far.
You should consider doing Gundam battle groups next. I'm sure you can think of task forces in any reality created solely to hunt down Gundams.
Also, congrats on your 500th video.
This definitely something we need more of!!!
The TIE Defender was my favorite ship in Squadrons. It was the only one that could actually match the Rebel ships. I can only imagine it'd have been devastating in combat in large numbers.
I always wanted to see a TV series about a sane and smart Imperial Commander who felt he had no choice but to follow the chain of command but was one day forced to do something rebellious to save a crew member. He went on to convert many of his Bridge Crew and defected the Destroyer Group to the Rebel Alliance. It would make an interesting series set around the time of Andor. And BTW I'm not copying them. I wanted this in the 90's. I just lack the writing skill to make it work.
I’m genuinely surprised no Lancer frigate to scour enemy fighter squads from existence. Just one of those could keep the Interdictor safe from most attempted bombing runs.
I supposed one of the reasons is similar to why the Venator wasn't chosen - more capability than actually needed. The battle line relies on the Defender/Interceptor for defence while the Escort squadron relies on the Interceptor and has the Raiders with good anti-fighter as redundancy, so the lancer wasn't needed there
The other reason I can think of is that if my memory is there, isn't the Lancer so rare within the Empire that whatever clout whoever commands this task force has can be better spent elsewhere?
Same, and I feel like there's too many layers of electronic warfare and that you could swap a couple of those vessels out for maybe another Victory-class or two for more firepower.
@@justanabramspassingby Actually no, simply put no one WANTED a Lancer Frigate. It was seen as useless or too weak, that it didn’t strike fear. Only reason they were rare was because the Empire were idiots and didn’t want to make them and no one wanted them other then a select few.
@@BigZach1 if we refer to IRL experience of effective counter-raider and decisive engagements, it shows that there is no such thing as too many layers of electronic warfare
you can never have enough of them
if there is any available asset, you grab it and put it in the field whenever and wherever you can
One of the things about the Lancer is that it does not even look like it belongs in the imperial fleet
This and What If are the best ones yet! I can envision so many more videos like this one, and I'm hoping we get them.
I definitely feel like task force, 89 would be a personal favorite of grand Admiral Thrawn
More please. The amount of detail put into this video makes me hopeful of all future battlegroup content!
It always amused that despite the fact that the Imperials are the villains of the saga, they are very popular as a faction amongst the fanbase, despite how evil they are. They have badass weapons, cool ships, and awesome uniforms and costumes as well menacing astatic to them. Which is why I like them.
I'd add a logistics ship or two, and maybe some frigates to escort them. The added range and operational time without having to dock for resupply would make it easier to slip under the radar of any rebel informants, once they start taking note of your activities and trying to track your movements.
I will calculate the point cost from Star Wars Armada, then build my separatist battlegroup to meet it in points
Imperial Fleet: 897 Points
3x ISD
1x Interdictor
1x Victory SD
1x Cantor
8x Light Cruisers
2x Raiders
1x Gazonti flotilla
Now time for my Flotilla
1x Providence Dreadnought as a flagship
6x Munificent Star Frigates
2x Recusent Light Destroyer
1x Recusent Support Destroyer (as a logistic ship)
2x Gozanti Flotilla (as light escorts)
2x Hardcell Transports as a Supply Ships (not for combat use)
For your thing about needing Recon starships, instead of the Lambda, there were some existing Imperial Recon ships. For example, the TIE Scout was essentially a TIE Fighter with a hyperdrive (it was the ship Ben Solo used to get back to Exogol in the Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker). Though I'm not sure how much sensory equipment those have. There were also modified Gozanti-class cruisers knoown as IGV-55 surveillance vessel (aka Gozanti-class espionage ship) with added sensor equipment, so they could be used for surveillance, intel, and recon (as seen in Star Wars Rebels). Though those are small cruisers, I think around the size of a Raider-class or CR90 corvette, so they would probably have to fly seperately from the Star Destroyers, outside of the hanger. I'm pretty sure these can be used for electronic warfare too, given what they did with them in the episode of Star Wars Rebels they were in. (As I watch the video I see that you mentioned this, but I still think you could use them instead of Lambdas, which seem to be just transports, and aren't even great at being troop transports for direct combat situations (according to some of the visual dictionaries))
Plus, the Gozanti cruisers can carry either 4 TIE/ln sized ships, or even 2 AT-AT sized vehicles. For the vehicle-carrying purposes for ground-assaults, they aren't as specialized like the Y-85 Titan Dropships that the Empire has specifically for that purpose, but the Titans are usually only in forces with Super Star Destroyers, so you'd probably only have Gozantis for that anyway. Plus, Gozantis are faster.
Edits: Just adding more stuff as the video goes on.
What about star wings? Hyperdrives, ion cannons, shields and lots of missiles.
@@razorburn645Star Wings would be cool! I think they're supposed to be used as gunboats and bombers (which I think they're good at but there's already a bunch of other ships to do that too), but they could be used for other stuff too I assume.
Other than hunting down rebel fleets, it gives the fleet captains a fair amount of leeway on where they patrol. A good tactic would be when heading to a rebel fleet staging area, to drop a Lamda class shuttle and a few dozen probe droids in neighboring systems, this keeps the main task force on point and gives them some eyes and ears in surrounding systems just in case a few rebel ships slip past the task force
I just created a custom TIE Fighter myself, it's nice to see the community's creativity growing so much lately with all the hype around the shows
I would love to see a proper mandolorian fleet! Maybe a colonization/conquest fleet?
(As usual, I suck at writing concisely, so TLDR: Nice video, I also did this and had many of the same ideas)
I love how often this channel and myself have aligned interests. Because not long ago I was annoyed by the Empire's tactics when facing the rebels, and basically set out to design a task force with the exact same goal as the one in the video. I had many of the same ideas, aiming for a task force made near to a bit before the middle of the war, though I imagined this as a task force with less resources given to them. This put some limitations on both scale and variety, and so for example, while I think an interdictor for sure is the best fit, it wouldn't have been available for a lower priority unit. And so, my fleet is smaller, and definitely has some weaknesses, but if wielded properly, could do much of the same that the video's force could have.
To start off, I set out with one thing in mind that your force somewhat ignores. The fact that so many big ships could draw attention to the task force, causing rebel cells to flee before any contact has been made. This, in combination with the more restricted budget led me to have only a single Imperial 2 star destroyer as the "flagship" of the task force. It’s not enough to take on any and all rebel fleets, but if deployed intelligently, then it will along with the rest of the task force be more than enough to take on smaller groups, or parts of larger groups. Along with it, making up the command battle group within the larger task force, would be two Quasars. You stated that you had issues with it, and you're not alone, but I would much rather have the extra fighter support from a less than perfect warship, than have to rely on what the other ships can carry, especially considering my slightly differing battle-tactic (which I will get back to). And lastly as part of the main command battle group is four Arrestor Cruisers, there to do what they can to make up for the lack of an Interdictor.
Alongside the command battle group would be six patrol/support battle groups. All containing an Arquitens Cruiser, to provide firepower and act as command ships for these smaller groups. Two Gozanti Cruisers, both there to provide more fighters, but also simply to tank damage, while also increasing the group’s attack possibilities. And lastly, I also utilize the IGV-55 listening ships, putting one in each patrol/support battle group, who during combat would act in the same role as the raiders in the video’s fleet. These groups would patrol the sector of interest, being pushy enough to keep rebel cells weary of moving around much, but not being so aggressive that they feel threatened. All while the IGV-55s passively listen for anything useful.
As for fighters, bombers and such, both the command and patrol/support battle groups would be fitted with fighters much in the same mindset as in the video, though on a budget. So, in my mind it would primarily be Tie-interceptors. And then I'll get back to the rest of the complement in a bit, because first I want to talk about one of the big differences between my task force, and the one in the video (other than the budget). Which is that I decided that a task force like this, should try to use all the strengths the Empire had, against the weaknesses of the rebels. And these strengths are well disciplined troops, and a distinct advantage in ground combat. So, the rest of my carried ships, and fleet overall would be centered around infiltration, and rapid deployment of ground troops. With the idea being to locate a rebel cell, wait for them to land at a base, or at a friendly port, and then use ground troops to take out what can be taken out on the ground, while holding them there long enough for the command and support groups to get into position to take them on. As part of this the Quasars would carry Sentinel-class landing craft and bombers, to aid in this sort of mission.
Lastly, both as part of both the reconnaissance, but also the assault itself, I would rely quite heavily on undercover agents, who when not traveling with other ships in the fleet, would utilize simple civilian ships (of course retrofitted to aid in their mission, but not too much, to limit the risk of discovery). These would work closely alongside the larger fleet, but also small elite reconnaissance squadrons. Again, assuming I couldn't afford anything too fancy, these would travel using Sentinel Class landing ships, although I would have them retrofitted to have the best sensors that could fit (which, since they normally can carry 54 - 75 passengers, shouldn’t be an issue). These small squads would be acting upon intelligence gathered by every part of the fleet, and would act both as passive investigators, and more active interrogators.
As touched on earlier, this means that the fleets main tactic would be to enter a system of interest, have the command group take up a “defensive” position where it most makes sense, while the patrol groups set out to patrol, keeping any rebel cells still, while gathering intelligence. While this is happening, undercover agents begin seeking the rebels, and working with the recon squads begin to smoke them out. Then, once they have been discovered, drop ships would leave the bigger ships at a distance, reducing the chance of discovery and getting into position close to the target. The undercover agents, and possibly the recon squad will look for opportunities to sabotage, and right before the fleet arrives, the force of shock troops attack, causing the rebels to focus on defending themselves from them. Then, they would either keep up the pressure until the rebels were defeated, pushed to retreat, or if the rebels put up more of a fight than anticipated, they would retreat themselves having served their primary purpose of keeping them occupied. As by then, any fleeing ships would have to get through the fleet. A fleet which has a much more even fighter complement than rebels are used to, and which has arrestor cruisers to keep at least the most important ships from escaping, should they get past the fleet.
In less ideal situations where the ground forces are unable to get close enough to a base, or if the fleet simply refrains from landing anywhere, this fleet would be less effective. But utilizing its intelligence gathering ability, especially along with any successful undercover agents, it should still be able to locate parts of the fleet and take out parts of it.
So yeah, that’s my “seek and destroy” fleet, utilizing much of the same mindset, but at a more limited budget.
This sounds like a threat that the rebels would need to take out ASAP as it prevents them from building strength and allies but if they gather in force that could break the fleet you can run/delay them and call in a more normal fleet to take them on
This fleet is focused on forcing the rebels to fight on the empires terms
@@killerhellhound Exactly the idea
I think you really should have incorporated some Lancer-class frigates. They didn't have the anti-ship punching power of an Arquitens, but their numerous quad-laser cannon batteries made even the legendary Rogue Squadron hesitate to engage.
Not even hesitate, the felt fear when they saw it because it’s just a ball of point defense guns
Considering the deep operations the task force is likely to engage in, some sort of auxiliary support ship may be prudent? Not something completely defenseless mind you, but something that can keep the TF out on the hunt without having to find a port for every little thing.
I would probably add in some TIE Avengers and Assault Gunboats as a suppliment/replacement for some of the interceptors and bombers. They, along with the Defenders, are also hyperspace capable. The Gunboats are better at assaulting defended targets than the Bombers because they're shielded and the Avengers give you a better all around platform for dogfighting than anything except for possibly the Defenders. If you want to get really greedy you can add in a couple Missile Boats as well, but they were even more rare than Defenders with only a handful ever seeing combat.
Some little idea I had for a fleet like this is a small Bait squadron. A civilian craft, some junk captured from the rebels or bought from some second hand salesman, followed by two remote-operated TIEs programmed to follow it and occasionally fire, but rarely actually hit it.
The purpose of this fleet is simple: The Rebels' kindness will always be their biggest flaw, and that should be exploited. They can't resist helping someone under attack from imperials.
This group simply comes through a system, and does a little show of asking for help and taking some hits. The Rebels swoop in, save this poor pilot, who can then be on his way, right back to our fleet to report a rebel presence in the system. Maybe see if they can start a conversation and get any intel, or offer them some tracked goods as thanks (and, if the rebels notice the goods have a tracker, they already have the perfect cover "That's how those TIEs found me! Thanks for pointing that out!")
Worst case scenario, even if the Rebels learn how this trick operates, the only thing they can do to beat it is to stop engaging when they see TIEs pursuing civilian ships.
I feel like if I were to had face that type of Task Force in the AOTR mod for Empire At War, I may have a shot of causing chaos with it, since my style while playing as the Rebel Alliancw is by making Task Forces that are mostly comprises of T-65B X-Wing Starfighter (20 units), BTL-A4 Y-Wing Starfighter (10 units), UT-60D U-Wing Starfighter/Support Craft (4 units), & RZ1 A-Wing Interceptor (6 units).
Its great in a "Hit & Run" tactic, & at catching Ships little or no support. Though, I'm not sure how many Starfighters I may lose if I'm not careful with my targets.
This task force is vulnurable to massed fighter/bomber attacks. And by some coincidence this is Rebel Alliance's prefered tactics. Good job, agent! Galaxy will be free from Imperial tyranny.
The Rebels dont have massed fighters and bombers, their numbers in a theatre are limited and they would fare horribly against that many TIE Interceptors, TIE Defenders and the Arquitens. Only an frontal suicide charge by some cruiser, destroying the Interdictor, would let them get away.
Congrats on surviving the algorithm! A YT channel like Templin Institute will thrive!
You Need some lancer to deal with any fighter whiteout risking yours. The biggest cost you will have is any Tie Fighter and Pilot lost so having the frigate lancer dealing with them is better than having all fighter defense on fighter.
I kinda wanna see something like this for the Covenant (Maybe planetside in this case, since Covenant already have extreme superiority in space)
I want that yacht club badge. And merch stuff. At once!!!
Absolutely love these kind of fleet vids! Inspired me to research my own here...
This fleet, like yours, would be solely tasked with finding, isolating, and destroying rebel star fleets.
These are the following assets in my fleet...
-- 3 upgraded ISD 1s
(basically older ISDs upgraded to current standers, but still maintain a point defense system. People forget that ISDs are amazing capitol ship killers )
-- 1 Interdictor
(only 1 because they're expesive. Keeps the rebel scum from fleeing, and is protected by the ISDs)
-- 5 carrack class frigates
(they have a larger more diverse armament, are just as durable, and way faster than arquintens while being about the same size)
-- 5 tartan class frigates
(Tough anti-starfighter monster, defensive in nature. Plus are fast, allowing them to disengage quickly)
-- 9 cr92a corvettes
(Highly customizable, cheap, fast, and durable corvettes. Some could be corvette killers, and some could help out against starfighters. Defensive in nature, but offer multi-mission scouting or reconnaissance)
-- 1 gladiator star destroyer
(Carrier and work bay of the battle group. Also decently well armed and could help pound other ships. Although in cannon it doesn't carry a lot, some vids have pointed out the sheer amount of hanger space this thing has, and it could easily carry 12+ squadrons)
-- 2 vindicator class light cruisers
(Extra muscle. Powerful for their size, and pretty durable Can be held in reserve to perform small Thrawn - Pincer hyperjump)
-- 1 vigil class Corvette
(Tough ship meant for patrol, but could be excellent for reconnaissance)
-- 1Spector class Storm Commando Carrier
(Basically a spec-ops corvette. Not meant for fleet battles, but is perfect for scouting and reconnaissance, as well as infiltration. Plus has elite storm comandos aboard)
*Probe droids are super underutilized as scouts themselves. Cheap and effective. I like your lamba shuttle idea, although if I could, I would use TIE Scouts as well (not normal TIEs but are actual TIE models, look them up).
Thats already a ton of ships, but now on to starfighters....
-- as many TIE Interceptors as possible
(Much better than standard TIE LN's. Are incredible dog-fighters with 4 powerful laser cannons, a top notch targeting system, and the best menuverablilty. Defensive in nature)
-- alpha class xg1 missle boats
(Actually very capable starfighters, but I would outfit them for anti-capital ship duty. They faster and less vulnerable than TIE Bombers.)
-- as many squadrons of either
TIE hunters,
TIE defenders
Or
TIE avengers
(All three, especially avenger and defender, are top notch imperial starfighters, and are better than every rebel fighter with the exception to the E wing (maybe))
- if possible, skipray blastboats and Y-E4 gunships. Just extra protection from starfighters
I like the TIE phantom but its just too rare to include
Overall, most of these ships and starfighters serve to protect the ISDs and the Interdictor. The ISDs are the main atraction here and are what will kill their fleet.
That is a greatly efficient and solidly build up imperial fleet that makes up for its weakness in cannon and give it a terrific fighting chance in a stand-up fight against a rebel taskforce by giving it the speed, scanning range and firepower to take them on. However for me, still think in a stand-up fight against a rebel fleet of same size, three or four mc80s a or b will eat imperial star destroyers for breakfast and large fighter squadrons made up of a variety of y, x, a, b and e wings will still have the edge even on enemy formations made up of interceptors, bombers and defenders. While screen of nebula,s carracks, gunships would keep their escorts in check for that to happen. Catching a tiger by its tail in by book.
I don't know much about naval combat but what I do know is that this fleet is very battleship focused while the US navy is basically focused around an aircraft carrier. While star destroyers can serve in the role its not the same. Although it is known that the empires fighter program is very much lacking with the cancellation of the defender.
Would you be able to get three Imperial IIs at this point in the war? If not, would you be willing to settle for replacing one or both of them with Imperial 1s?
Alright, now make a Rebel battle group to counter this one, and then an imperial battle group to counter that rebel group, and then a…
Suggestion: Part 2 for this video should be about this task force's land forces. Using this fleets ship composition what type of vehicles, infantry and so on will you be bringing.
Thing is, this fleet is designed specifically to cripple the Rebellion's interstellar assets. It doesn't need a landing or invasion force because their not invading enemy territory. That can be managed by a different task force. This one is focused mostly on naval combat. The heavier ordinance for planetary bombing on the tie bombers and punishers are more than enough for this particular task force
@@ash_from_youtube9387 So you mean to say this fleet don't have any complement of marines (even for ship boarding defense), vehicles or equipment that can be utilize or facilitate any mission that may involve any landing, boarding, investigation, scouting, recon, quick action and so on?
And if this fleet encounter any unexpected situation in their current mission that requires any land forces. They will simply just over looked it or they would contact and wait for other friendly forces that are better equipped to handle the situation? Because they don't have anything other than naval assets? They would just bombed everything from orbit.
@@dfool06 You make a fair point but it would come up very rarely, if at all, as that isn't part of the intended aim of this fleet. Likely it would only come up if they were targeting rebel shipyard or something similar. Personally, I think it would be more viable to simply call for aid from a combined arms team from the Imperial Army. The advantage of this fleet is that they're not really in a rush. They decide the terms of battle. Though, I could see why you might want to keep a few ground capabilities on board, but it's a question of whether or not it's worth the added logistics. Task Force 89 is navy, not army, so actual landings I feel would be incredibly rare and if it ever did come up, they would just want to call on someone more experienced
2:49 "Our mission is to locate and destroy the Rebel Alliance's interstellar assets, its cruisers, starfighters and whatever else we might find flying the red starbird. We're not looking to hunt down rebel bases or root out sympathisers, our primary concern is crippling the Rebellion's ability to conduct interstellar warfare."
It depends on how you interpret the stated aim of this task force and what you decide it entails. For me, it seems highly unlikely that they'd need any kind of army or ground force as the entire task force is built around interstellar, naval warfare.
@@ash_from_youtube9387 Oh come on! Not even a tiny group? Half a dozen squad of shock troops? I think that would be the main weakness of this fleet. The empire is vast, a fleet should always be ready for anything.
What happens if a ship crashed on a planet?
Captain of crashed ship: Command! Our ship crash landed on a planet full of hostiles. We are in danger of being overrun. We can't fight them off because we don't have any force to deal with any land battles. Request immediate rescue.
Fleet Command: Oh sorry. We don't have any assets to go down there either. We are an anti rebel fleet task force remember. What we have are plenty of bombs ordinances. We are just gonna bomb all of you to kingdom come to prevent your capture. Best of luck to all of you down there.
"outer rim yaught club" having a large number of lambdas is very fitting haha
I'd be very happy to see more of these - perhaps a potential alternate Federation task force for the Dominion War, a Battle Star formation from the high-point of the Colonies, or even a ground force for the Trade Federation that doesn't suck. There's definite potential here!