Hearing this guy nerd out on prism scopes for 13 minutes was more fun than I ever would have expected. With the added benefit of demystifying their internal workings some. Its nice to hear someone who's passionate about a subject do the talking rather than someone who's just trying to sell what their boss told them to sell on that particular day.
I said it on the last video and it’s worth repeating: this guy is a breath of fresh air. Candid, unpretentious, and a little funny. Thank you for bringing him to those of us that didn’t even know Gideon existed Ian.
I missed the last video he was in, so this was a real eye-opener for me. Wholly agree, more of this guy (who knows his shit, and is entertaining to boot), less of the rather recent boring interviews, please.
While I think he did well (booth presentation is a whole skill unto itself) I know that ACOG’s lack of focus adjustment is a durability decision. Not because they thought all mil dudes have the same eye shape. That’s just not humanly possible with that amount of people (and the fact issued corrective eyewear is a thing). The other one that rubbed me wrong but I fully admit is probably a booth interview issue is that some prism configs can absolutely do high magnification in a small package. Just that those don’t tend to make for very good combat small arms optics.
EXACTLY... Last video dude was pretty much like, "if you're doing HALO jumps into the ocean, this is NOT the product for you, but you're probably not ever going to do that, so you should give us a try."
And then, having someone who wants you to lay that 'tism on them in a two sided conversation. Pure bliss. "You... you want to talk about the thing I love?!"
I got bitten by computer programming bug in junior high when I kinda figured out some super simple BASIC programming on the class computers there and instantly knew what I wanted to do for a career. Have been doing it about 15 years and still have software projects I work on in my free time. Tism ftw
After we finished filming this video I ran over to the booth across the way and profusely apologized to the guy there, who I had drawn a perfect bead on accidentally while demonstrating the eye relief on the Advocate 1x prism. Everyone knows the guns are deactivated, everyone knows that you are going to get "muzzled" or "flagged" a thousand times during the event, but it's still never EVER my intention to aim an Mp5 at a very nice vendor whom I am certainly not willing to destroy. Bad rule four violation, Mike! I'm so happy to see all the positive reactions to this video. Hooray!
Thanks for mentioning this - I've never been to a gun show and since I don't know how the weapons are deactivated, the way people handle and mount them there looks terrifying. Ian's gone over gun safety precautions at shooting matches and ranges many times, maybe a brief bit on gun show safety would be good?
It was interesting because I was kind of waiting for it to happen one way or another. Seems like a niche someone could fill for accessory vendors. 3D printed and brightly colored, obvious "non-weapons" to have a way to mount optics and other such devices. edit: the show could pick a standardized color (training weapon blue, for example) and that way everyone knows "oh he's waving around his giant inert blue fake."
Tl;dr: prism scopes are astigmatism friendly and can be used without a battery compared to a red dot. At low power magnification, prism scopes can have a wide field of view, forgiving eye relief and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper than traditional scopes.
" low magnification " .at high power they require a higher standard of assembly . The prism also absorbs more light and don't work well with asemritic lenses
The bit about astigmatism isn’t even always the case. In some cases, given the severity of astigmatism, the direction of the vision flaw, and the reticle type, you may still experience issues with a prism scope. The original 1x Primary Arms prism scope was not really much better for me than a red dot. The reticle was tiny and I believe the issue was with the length of the tube working with light transmission. OTOH the Burris AR-1X was fine, for some reason. ACOGs are technically prism scopes and unless I’m looking at a target 300 yards away, they’re essentially useless. They don’t have any diopter either, as stated in the video. TLDR: prism scopes are not a guaranteed solution for astigmatism. Don’t give up on red dots until you try them outdoors in the sun and see how they look.
Without the magnification, the etched reticle is tiny. With added magnifcation the eyebox gets smaller and the weight increases. So without severe astigmatism, rds for me. I'd love to see a smaller 4x Magnifier. They're dying out. Everything is either 3x or 5x. Got a Juliet 4x which is fine and tough but less weight would be nice.
Thanks for doing this video. I live in the wild wild eastern United States where we don’t have a lot of wide open spaces. My 2.5x Primary Arms ACSS is all I need for an optic. I don’t even need the ACSS reticle because if I zero at 50 meters, the bullet doesn’t drop out to 200 meters which is as far as 99.9% of my shots. I do need an etched reticle. Even high end red dots are hard for me to see on bright sunny days. Also I have corrected astigmatism. Prism sights and iron sights work best for me.
I enjoy mine I got right before they ended production for 100$, only problem I have is without the illumination on I can barely see the middle dot because it's so small
Dude, you can tell he really loves what he does and how excited he is to talk to Ian about prism scopes. And I love to see that kind of passion when it comes to the industry. Thank you for your info Gideon and Ian!
Bro needs his own channel or needs to get yoinked by one of the big boy manufacturers and thrown a fat salary...he knows his stuff, has an awesome personality and is an excellent presenter. One of my favorite guests you've had on here, well done Mike!
I'm buying a Gideon optic just based off this dudes enthusiasm and clear he is a SME. Is it my SHTF optic, no, but when you 12th Rifle stashed for Zompocolypse is looking to upgrayedd, why not.
You should have this guy on for a serious sit down interview. He seems like an honest businessman selling optics, and we could use more people like him.
I have astigmatism and I wanted to add: For most people with astigmatism, red dots are still usable. The trick is to turn the brightness down and cowitness it with BUIS. Same goes for EOtechs, etc on rifles. Cowitness with BUIS (1/3 or absolute cowitness).
I have a Primary Arms prism attached to the rail on my 5.56 and I don't think I'll be going back to a red dot anytime soon. The view is incredibly clean, you know exactly where the impact point is when shooting at the zeroed distance, and being able to use it without even being turned on is convenient for the times I've accidently run the battery down.
@frosty3693 it's only a 1x because I don't shoot at very long range generally. But I've got buddies with the higher magnifications, and they're just as clear to see through. I can heartily recommend them. Especially the green reticle, very visible.
I have the 5x Micro prism with the ACSS Aurora reticle (the one that Primary Arms put in their TA31 collab). Super clear, the reticle is super readable, max brightness is daylight visible in bright, cloudless upper Midwest weather, and when I took it out to a long range to verify if the BDC marks were actually accurate for a 16" barrel with 62 grain 556, not only did they line up very well, but I also made hits ot at 500 yards with a 25-30MPH back wind. And that was my first time shooting anything past 100 yards period.
Poi to poa. As most have said. He is in a league of his own. My dad was a seal with the tx us open 199 of 200. In 69. Still remains. I may know a tic about shooting and glass . I'm a photographer for 54 years, and yes a bit differance... ex voightlander apo 2..0. 800. 10% less than the 50 Summilux 12k. Same situation. He is a teacher and luv helping folks. MY money tells me he didn't have a silver spoon. Lmao but true. A true (GENTLE )- BAD ASS MAN AND PATRIOT THRU AND THUE. BLEESINGS WARMEST REGARDS! AS MANY WONDERFUL FOLKS PLEASE KEEP BRINGIN DA HEAT.
@@OrtusSign59thank you soooo much , coming from a true second to none MAN!!!! IM going with the 1x and a 3x mag. With mag metal flip ups. Now to stack them properly. With the mag dropping. Please all thoughts welcomed. Always was a scope man.
The last time i was this early, I'aan ibn Khalaami had the secrets of Kraut Space Magic revealed to him by the spirit of Georg Luger in the H&K Grey Room
@@Heathen7 It's more based on the Islamic story about how the Quran was revealed. I made a joke about Ian being Gun Jesus* and now I'm expanding it. Dune is based on Middle Eastern politics/resources and culture but it isn't connected to this in particular. Making a Dune joke about Igak Muad'ollum is a fantastic idea, however. *Under a previous video. referencing the Three Wise Men
I have the Primary Arms SLX3x32 with the ACSS Gen 2 reticle. It’s a great prism with the ballistic drop marks for out to 600 yds. I used it on a horrible windy rainy day, it was able to help me get hits out to 600 yds, and I even got a hit with some guess work on a 2/3 silhouette at 700 yds. Prism scopes rock!
@@Jorgen03 For sure, I bought it because it has many of the advantages of a Trijicon ACOG without the price tag. The thing is a tank too, one of my favorite optics.
@@patrickclark9430 that’s good to know. AKs are a whole other beast with optic mounting. I tried to help my buddy put a red dot on his but then you couldn’t even chin weld to see through it
Another great interview Mike. I first saw you on TFB with James Reeves, and you did a great job there too. The three of you should do a collab called something like ”Optics for dummies” or “Optics 101”. It would be a massive box office.
I sincerely appreciate that there are vendors that aren't marketing the lates, greatest, ultra expensive stuff but affordable and reasonably priced gear
It is, but adjustment is 1MOA/click, for some reason. Which is quite... coarse? (It's 0.5MOA per click for most red dots). I'd rather be able to do the occasional precise shot at small-ish target with high confidence.
The SUIT sight we used on the SLR was a prism sight, which offered the unusual feature of the aiming needle coming down from the top of your sight picture.
Have used the SUIT, and a couple of friends have asked me to develop something similar, with like a German style post coming from the top instead of the bottom. This way as the rifle recoils upwards you can hopefully continually monitor and track your target in the clear and unobstructed bottom half of your field of view. Makes a lot of sense, but I'm afraid it wouldn't sell because almost nobody in the USA market has experience with that configuration and they would all question it, say it's too weird and different. In other words... the American shooter isn't ready for 1970's British reticle technology? Hahahaha PS I have an FAL but mine is a "metric" style, not an SLR, and I love the gun but it is a real boat anchor. I can fight with it! I can run with it! Just... don't make me fight with it right after I finish running with it ok? Can we just stop and take a few minutes to rest before the shooting starts please?
Yeah, the SUIT reticle arrangement was a neat idea, but I don't think the advantage of not having the post obscure the target during recoil outweighs the advantage of being able to track the target as you bring the rifle up from a low ready - honestly, most troops really aren't tracking the target during recoil, and the SUIT was made for line grunts, not precision riflemen. It's like BDC cams on line infantry rifles - multiple studies by multiple nations (and multiple forces within nations) have shown that, by and large, PVT Snuffy isn't dialing range in combat (and the days of the lieutenant shouting, "Set your sights to 300 yards, lads!" as the wave of spear armed locals pass the appropriate range stake are long gone), he's holding off. So, there is little point in designing a sight with more than the simplest and most rugged BDC, *if* it is intended for the PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry), much less the 80% of the force that aren't even riflemen by trade. Save those fancy features for the guys who will actually make use of them, unless you can incorporate them into the "line" rifles without loss of other functionality, features, or ruggedness.
@@geodkyt It isn't target obscuration during recoil that is the problem being solved with an inverted post reticle. Although, with a light recoiling rifle, it could be an extra benefit for witnessing impacts and target movements. It doesn't obscure your target at range when one needs to add a bit of kentucky elevation or windage in the field. Nor during initial alignment. It would take some practice to become accustomed to an inverted post but it is no different than learning anything new.
@@GideonOptics2023 Yes, people get dogmatic in their preferences, training etc and are skeptical of different ways. The 'new' ways have to prove themselves for better or worse. You would have an easier time with the minds of new shooters. I think being able to track target movement and possibly projectile impacts is dependent on a light enough recoiling rifle so your scope view is minimally disturbed. I see inverted posts as more beneficial in unobstructed viewing during initial targeting as well as clear viewing while applying kentucky windage and elevation. Ok, we need new rules of war. A time-out can be signaled where all ballistic dodgeball activity must halt. Everyone must stay where they are at that moment so that the time-out callers can catch their breath. No changing or charging of weapons or magazines allowed during the time-out. When the whistle is blown, the ballistic dodgeball game is resumed and all previous restrictions are removed. 🥸
@geodkyt thanks for that very detailed insight. I just thought the needle coming down from the top looked a bit odd and it does take a bit of getting used to. It would would be a niche market of old school veterans that would be interested in this.
Thanks for this. Answered a couple of questions I've had for a while. I was an ACOG guy for a long time but my developing astigmatism eventually turned the reticles into mush or double images. I always wondered why they didn't have the diopter adjustment and now I know why. No old fart eyes in military rifledom. I've gone to Primary Arms 1x and 2x prisms and haven't looked back.
I was literally "given" a medical discharge from the Army because my vision at the time precluded using prism optics. This was in the early 90s, when the only prism optics were in Artillery (gun sight + collimator) LASIK fixed it in mid 2000, but I was screwed out of the career I wanted to pursue.
Ugh, that sucks! After 9/11 I tried to quit law school and join up, but like a fool I sent in my medical records to MEPS and they saw a lifetime of asthma medications and said nope, we don't take your kind. Not being able to serve my country in our armed forces is one of a very very short list of regrets I have in my life. --Mike
Based on these two videos, the lifetime warranty, price point, and features of the optic, I purchased the judge pistol reflex sight today. It fit exactly what I was looking for at a better price point. Thank you immensely for introducing me.
I have astigmatism and swapped out to a prism on my AR and love it. That little 1X at $230 will have to replace the red dots on a couple of 9mm carbines I have!
@@theflypilot I you have astigmatism red dots won't be round. I get a comet shape... Many/most people don't know they have astigmatism until they get a red dot. Perfect vision otherwise.
@@kodiakkeith Yeah I definitely have astigmatism. My Romeo 7s starbursts bad plus I wear glasses. I imagine the prism is much better. At least I hope it solves my issue.
I choose prism as my base optic due to the simple fact it is almost exempt from the effects of an EMP. Second consideration is my astigmatism is bad enough that red dots are almost useless except for uber close range... As the gentleman said, they are low fixed power and can take care of business to 300 yards easy. For longer range I go with variable optic usually in the FFP type. I look forward to seeing the 3 power from Gideon when it becomes available. Cheers!
@@KarsenKeith I see it as the 4 wheel drive truck saga. Buy a 4x4 and never use it. Some will say you wasted your money on an unrealistic plan. Don't buy a 4x4 and need one just once and you may be ridiculed for not planning properly. I was in the military 40+ years ago and they worried about it then. The last time I checked, not a single country has given up their nukes and many more have now become part of the nuke family of nations. I'm just trying to cover the bases. Enjoy your week. Cheers!
If seriously worried about EMP, you may want to keep your red dot and other electronics in Faraday's cage (including a proper strongbox). Having working electronics (night vision/thermal?) in post-EMP collapse seems worth it.
This Gideon guy is awesome. He's so open and helpful and bleuuuhhhhhh! Let it all go out there. He knows a few things too, and I love that he's willing to share with others to just help. Good for him for starting a company to do just that and offer a, hopefully, competitive product at a competitive price. I'm gonna go look at their website now. This is the second video I've seen with him at SHOT show, and thank you, Ian, for creating this series. This is useful, interesting, engaging stuff. You've gauged your audience well. This feels real, and that matters.
@@GideonOptics2023 that would be great, astigmatism really messes up red dots for me and i'm looking at 1x prism sights but would like the ability to magnify the optic if needed.... a 3x would be around the sweet spot for a lightweight rifle at 2-300m ranges.... anything further and i'm pulling out the big boys with LPVOs on them
I did not plan on watching 13 minutes of how prisms work and honestly, I'm still pretty fuzzy on what's happening, but WOW this guy is amazing! His love of the technology and understanding of the history is definitely helpful and interesting info. He also isn't one of those sale guys that pretends like competitors don't exist - he talks about pros and cons of the very popular ACOG and uses general terms. This is pretty amazing. I really really hope Gideon keeps up making Prisms until they reach a professional grade optic. My astigmatism isn't so bad that I can't use a RMR in a pinch, so I do have one on my shotgun and my handguns are all irons only. If there was a high quality 1x prism that somehow got down to the footprint of a SRO or Acro.... oh man, I would be throwing them on everything. I always wished Eotech would find a way to make a holographic style RMR, but I really don't think there's a way to shrink everything down to that size and make it work.
This guy is great! Prism scopes are awesome for several other reasons. I used a 1x for a few years as a cop. I loved not having to turn anything on or worry about what magnification I was on. I also never had to worry about my white light washing the dot out 👍
I was sad to see Mike leave Swampfox since they're doing a lot of good things for budget optics, but it looks like Gideon snagged the right guy for the job if they're interested in rolling out a line of prism optics.
I just recently bought two prism optics, one for a friend's AR, and since I was waiting in the Primary Arms showroom, I decided to get a 5x for myself. My nephew has significant astigmatism -- to the point he just gave up trying to shoot the AR I helped him build. I bought him a Vortex Spitfire (?) prism optic in green, and that made all the difference. He really enjoys shooting his AR now, especially suppressed. I'll take a look at Gideon, as I can think of an AR I can put that on. Thanks for this video.
Probably my fav optic I've purchased over the last 10 years has been the Primary Arms 3x that I have mounted on my 5.56 Galil Ace. Was landing first shot hits from 200 out to 500 with the ACSS reticle, big fan of it.
Sounds interesting, and I like people as this guy, that is a nerd in his topic and doesn't talk down on other manufactures or specific products. Just "we have this product and you get these benefits". He seems like a person you could talk with for hours.
Ian, the Iook at the Airgun world, Immersive Optics does sights up tp a14x50 prism sight. reasonable weight and size. problem is you need to be at almost contact to the eye range.
I hate you. Lol😂 now I can't think of anything else...... haha Let's see..... I am thinking, after thsi video, that they have to have added another magnifying lense behind the prism. It would explain the reduced eye box from 3x and reduced field of view.....
Having him as a guest with prepared questions for him to answer at length would be a very nerdy. and I would enjoy it. I recently bought a Monstrum 4x prism and had no idea how it actually worked, but knowing now what is actually going on inside, I am nervous about how well my purchase will hold up considering the price.
Even in hostile situations with adverse weather conditions 3x is plenty good out to expected engagement distances unless you're the guy hanging back and reading peoples names of their dog tag before you put a toe tag on them.
These have been some excellent optic conversations! We're going to need a dedicated Q&A sometime 😉👍 I'm also thinking of trying the growing trend of testing the use of a primary red dot and an offset 3x-5x prism scope... It sounds backwards, but when do you want to take time canting your weapon to where the optic is inline with the bore? longer ranges where time and precision is often an option or from 1ft-100+ yards, which slows down your time to your first aimed shot when using an offset dot... Jeff Gurwitch on his "modern tactical shooting" channel has a great video on the topic... If I'm going to mount a tube optic for more primary precision use why take the weight penalty (and other problems) of a 1-8x LPVO that really still requires an offset dot when I could have much more magnification for the same or less weight while still having a decently low 2-5x low end while still having much better high magnification primary use capabilities, along with the offset dot... Basically a basic carbine setup vs. DMR setup by just swapping the placement of the two optics... Especially if you want NVG capabilities for the carbine, or want clip on enablers for the DMR which would be wasted on LPVOs or Prisms (even though I still like primary 3x+ prism setups for certain things, but this is a do all type philosophy)... The offset magnified prism concept is really just now a possibility to try for the entire firearms market... Given availability, size, weight, lower prices, and more mounting solutions of the newest generation micro prism scopes... Basically that magic 1-4x/1-6x Elcan concept, but no levers, no POI shifts, no fussing with magnifiers (magnifiers definitely aren't a perfect solution, just another optic in the way of your primary aiming optic 😉), or LPVO levers that usually go from min-max... A good proven primary do all dot, with the additional capability of magnification by just canting the rifle consistently is an interesting concept, atleast to me... I know it sounds backwards, but you should definitely have a look at Jeff's video on the topic and his test platform/results so far! 👍
I inherited a Colt flattop carbine recently, right now it only has irons. Thinking about going with Henry's idea of putting a dot on it, and then having a prism cowitness on a QD mount instead of a magnifier: you don't need to worry about PoI shift on the QD, because the dot doesn't move, so you either use that or zero the prism so the reticle aligns to the dot.
I love my prism sights because I don't get the spikes from my astigmatism as I do on dots. As a guy who's gotten DNF on courses of fire because my sights self destructed, and had dots die on the range... that the prism will work after the illumination fails is a genuine bonus.
I can only use 1moa dots, anything larger becomes a starburst. Love my Vortex Spitfire 1x (gen1) and Primary Arms SLx 5x w/ ACSS Aurora reticle. Prism optics are a game changer for anyone with astigmatism. I just wish there was a way for us to enjoy holosights, but that will never happen.
@FuzedBox I can use a holosight, I have an Eotech on my AK, but I have to concentrate for it to stop blurring, something I never have to worry about with the Primary Arms slx 1x I have on my AR. Then again, the Eotech was something I bought before I found out about my astigmatism, so oh well.
@@FuzedBox an interesting thing I found about holograpics sights is while the reticle looks like garbage to me naturally, having a magnifyer basically fixes everything. Probably a simple science there but I'm too lazy to look it up.
I would also like to state as someone with astigmatism I have also found circle dot red dots much like prisms to be very clear, versus just a dot with no circle.
I have a red dot on my AR. My astigmatism that has developed in the last 10 years or so makes to so hard for me to see clearly through it. So this prism 1x might be exactly what I need.
I have a Burris AR 1X and it works with a magnifier , but i bouhght it for two reasons, one is for the CQB aspect of a dot sight and two because of an astigmatism that doesn't let me use red dots. So if you want to shot at long range you can with a flip to the side magnifier.
Regarding the large 5.5x ACOG, I would love to see a comprehensive break down of of its function and the viability of such a large prism optic. There isn't a lot of info about it owing to its relative unpopularity compared to its smaller siblings - though from what I've read, those who have it and use it seem to really like it.
I have a quick detach mount I made to fit my quick detach ring bases on my .375 H&H with a SwampFox Raider Micro Prism. For close in buffalo and other dangerous game it is the way to go.
I got to try one of those cheap (all relative, ~600 bucks) microbolometer, cam based thermal scopes. Useful range away from city light - well for _spotting_ I could fairly easily spot a person at a kilometer. For accuracy of aim I have no idea, but it was pretty accurate at 200m, didn't have a useful target to test beyond that. But it was surprising and positively strange in many ways. Being camera based, actually looking through a lens but into a small screen was weird. Having a big zoom range like a digital camera, on something that small, was even weirder. There was autofocus but for that kind of pricetag the default setting was rather aggressive and not perfect, at least at long range. But it was adjustable, so when turning the autofocus down it calmed down a lot and stopped hunting. It got me maybe 90% there, and the manual lens focus ring would quickly get me the rest of the way. I always imagined general mechanical stability and integrity would be a major issue with a construction like this. That at minimum it would need a crapload of fairly soft dampening, which would at least have a substantial risk of stuff not bouncing back to the exact same position. But if I understand correctly, the electronics have gotten incredibly small, and the ability to make small high precision germanium lens(es) have gotten really affordable. So it's able to cope with the forces of being stuck to a firearm, because those components are so small and light that they have practically no inertia. So as long as they're fixed well, they don't really need any notable dampening :) The little screen still has some mass to it so that has dampening, but it doesn't really matter if that happened to shift a tiny bit - because it's just a screen. In theory you could jostle and turn that display whatever way you like, heck even take it off the "scope" and hold it in your hand if there were extension wires, and it won't affect the accuracy. Because it's not actually part of the optical path. It does feel a bit gimmicky, but it's obviously a useful gimmick. I never really thought something like this would be available to civilian market, certainly not anything remotely close to this price. I think resolution of the sensor was 640 times something. There was a 50hz mode, but it seemed like there was aggressive signal amplification going on to get a useful image at longer range with that little exposure time, because there was a lot of noise. But at 20 or 24 hz I didn't notice any signal noise, at least not easily percievesble on such a small display.
The Vortex 15x50 comes with mounting parts and has a roof prism so there is no bend in it. The only question istwilight vision, being 50 instead of the Usual 60mm at the objective lens. But its light gaterning for its size is phenominal. The whole business is calle "folded optics" that gives higher magnification witha shorter tube. Zeiss West and Aus Jena (Zeiss East) were doing roof prisms 40 years ago. Aus Jena had a 15x60 monocular
Roof prism binoculars have always been available, and cheaply. I bought my first 8X40 roof prism binoculars about 45 years ago, with kid allowance money (that I saved up for a couple months). Plus rubberized, camouflaged and floatable !!!
Never got to try a prism scope before being at IWA last month. Tried some at the Primary Arms booth and absolutely loved it. Besides the fact that it confirmed then that i have some form of stigmatism. Their micro prism is just a great scope, and with the etched reticle is like having back up irons build in if there would be something wrong with the battery. Was looking at a Holosun AEMS red dot, which i tried also when at IWA and its a great dot and it didnt change shape at all. But just loved the prism for having the reticle, if there is enough light i dont have to turn the uliminitation on and as an added bonus. The prism scope was also quite a lot cheaper to get compared to the AEMS.
I have a primary arms 1x prism. At 100 yards my target is smaller than with the naked eye. Absolutely not getting another prism optic to replace a red dot. Haven't tried a 3x or anything but I bet it's better than a red dot and magnifier.
While I like the guy (I too am biased toward prism optics.) I can’t help but call out that the thing about the ACOG not having an external focusing assembly was not because they thought all young folks have the same eye shape. It was a durability thing. Otherwise you’d not have to worry about issuing corrective glasses and teaching using the optical center of prismatic optics with them. And I do think the point of prisms getting big for higher magnification is struggling from short booth interview issues, in that, several prism configurations exist that can do high magnification in small packages. But, the trade offs of them would not make them good small arms optics for military use. The Schmidt-pechan prism of the ACOG isn’t as efficient but allows for greater eye relief and larger field of view when paired with a good objective lens (hence the larger body). Great for a combat gun. But slow competition optics can get up to 14x in seriously small packages not taking into account pocket magnifiers smaller than some modern phablet phones. The ACOG one I think he’s just repeating things that just aren’t true sadly, but as for the second point of small high magnification prism optics suffers from having to try to condense a lot of info into a quick booth interview format.
That's kind of what I meant though. When the ACOG was first developed and issued, the policy was you either have 20/20 vision or better, or you are corrected to 20/20 vision, or you won't get the optic issued to you. You'll get something else. I'm not saying all military eyeballs are identical, but I am saying there is a military specification infantry eyeball, said specification being 20/20. I don't know if that is still true. Maybe they issue them now to guys who aren't correctable to 20/20 and the policy has changed. But when the original 4x was adopted in the late 1980s, it was 20/20 or no ACOG for you.
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Hearing this guy nerd out on prism scopes for 13 minutes was more fun than I ever would have expected. With the added benefit of demystifying their internal workings some. Its nice to hear someone who's passionate about a subject do the talking rather than someone who's just trying to sell what their boss told them to sell on that particular day.
Yes, his excitement is fantastic
right?! So much so i just purchased their Omega red dot for my 10mm
I said it on the last video and it’s worth repeating: this guy is a breath of fresh air. Candid, unpretentious, and a little funny. Thank you for bringing him to those of us that didn’t even know Gideon existed Ian.
Yeah this guys great I've only seen him twice I think and I'd be happy to see him more often
I missed the last video he was in, so this was a real eye-opener for me. Wholly agree, more of this guy (who knows his shit, and is entertaining to boot), less of the rather recent boring interviews, please.
@@workingguy-OU812 : It's worth hunting down. 👍 Dude's cool.
While I think he did well (booth presentation is a whole skill unto itself)
I know that ACOG’s lack of focus adjustment is a durability decision. Not because they thought all mil dudes have the same eye shape. That’s just not humanly possible with that amount of people (and the fact issued corrective eyewear is a thing).
The other one that rubbed me wrong but I fully admit is probably a booth interview issue is that some prism configs can absolutely do high magnification in a small package. Just that those don’t tend to make for very good combat small arms optics.
EXACTLY... Last video dude was pretty much like, "if you're doing HALO jumps into the ocean, this is NOT the product for you, but you're probably not ever going to do that, so you should give us a try."
Finding a line of work that is complimentary to ones specific ‘tism is the true secret to happiness
And then, having someone who wants you to lay that 'tism on them in a two sided conversation. Pure bliss.
"You... you want to talk about the thing I love?!"
True indeed. It’s the wonderful thing that makes the world turn.
And with prism sights and scopes, one can use one 'tism to compensate for one's other 'tism.
Amen brother and this man is near enlightenment
I got bitten by computer programming bug in junior high when I kinda figured out some super simple BASIC programming on the class computers there and instantly knew what I wanted to do for a career. Have been doing it about 15 years and still have software projects I work on in my free time. Tism ftw
After we finished filming this video I ran over to the booth across the way and profusely apologized to the guy there, who I had drawn a perfect bead on accidentally while demonstrating the eye relief on the Advocate 1x prism. Everyone knows the guns are deactivated, everyone knows that you are going to get "muzzled" or "flagged" a thousand times during the event, but it's still never EVER my intention to aim an Mp5 at a very nice vendor whom I am certainly not willing to destroy. Bad rule four violation, Mike!
I'm so happy to see all the positive reactions to this video. Hooray!
Thanks for mentioning this - I've never been to a gun show and since I don't know how the weapons are deactivated, the way people handle and mount them there looks terrifying. Ian's gone over gun safety precautions at shooting matches and ranges many times, maybe a brief bit on gun show safety would be good?
You should have drawn on him again later on, just to put doubt in his mind and make him check over his shoulder for the rest of the day.
It was interesting because I was kind of waiting for it to happen one way or another. Seems like a niche someone could fill for accessory vendors. 3D printed and brightly colored, obvious "non-weapons" to have a way to mount optics and other such devices. edit: the show could pick a standardized color (training weapon blue, for example) and that way everyone knows "oh he's waving around his giant inert blue fake."
Inadvertent flagging aside, Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and enthusiasm with us!!!
thank you for the passionate and informative talk!
It's always enjoyable to listen to someone so enthusiastic about their work.
Tl;dr: prism scopes are astigmatism friendly and can be used without a battery compared to a red dot. At low power magnification, prism scopes can have a wide field of view, forgiving eye relief and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper than traditional scopes.
Yea i was wondering what the advantage of prism was vs red dot
" low magnification " .at high power they require a higher standard of assembly . The prism also absorbs more light and don't work well with asemritic lenses
The bit about astigmatism isn’t even always the case. In some cases, given the severity of astigmatism, the direction of the vision flaw, and the reticle type, you may still experience issues with a prism scope.
The original 1x Primary Arms prism scope was not really much better for me than a red dot. The reticle was tiny and I believe the issue was with the length of the tube working with light transmission. OTOH the Burris AR-1X was fine, for some reason.
ACOGs are technically prism scopes and unless I’m looking at a target 300 yards away, they’re essentially useless. They don’t have any diopter either, as stated in the video.
TLDR: prism scopes are not a guaranteed solution for astigmatism. Don’t give up on red dots until you try them outdoors in the sun and see how they look.
@@RT81775face that matches the opinion. Try running and gunning with a red dot and an astigmatism. Or just try running in general.
Without the magnification, the etched reticle is tiny. With added magnifcation the eyebox gets smaller and the weight increases. So without severe astigmatism, rds for me.
I'd love to see a smaller 4x Magnifier. They're dying out. Everything is either 3x or 5x.
Got a Juliet 4x which is fine and tough but less weight would be nice.
I much appreciated the diagram. I had never considered how much bouncing around the light has to do in a pair of binoculars or a prim before.
This dude knows his shit - he is way more than just a SHOT Show salesman with that knowledge.
Thanks for doing this video. I live in the wild wild eastern United States where we don’t have a lot of wide open spaces. My 2.5x Primary Arms ACSS is all I need for an optic. I don’t even need the ACSS reticle because if I zero at 50 meters, the bullet doesn’t drop out to 200 meters which is as far as 99.9% of my shots. I do need an etched reticle. Even high end red dots are hard for me to see on bright sunny days. Also I have corrected astigmatism. Prism sights and iron sights work best for me.
I enjoy mine I got right before they ended production for 100$, only problem I have is without the illumination on I can barely see the middle dot because it's so small
Dude, you can tell he really loves what he does and how excited he is to talk to Ian about prism scopes. And I love to see that kind of passion when it comes to the industry. Thank you for your info Gideon and Ian!
Bro needs his own channel or needs to get yoinked by one of the big boy manufacturers and thrown a fat salary...he knows his stuff, has an awesome personality and is an excellent presenter. One of my favorite guests you've had on here, well done Mike!
I'm buying a Gideon optic just based off this dudes enthusiasm and clear he is a SME. Is it my SHTF optic, no, but when you 12th Rifle stashed for Zompocolypse is looking to upgrayedd, why not.
Lol did you fail geometry or something?
He worked for them for years. Now he’s doing his own thing.
he is that guy with who you will never get bored.. he is literally a optic nerd and clearly loves his work
You should have this guy on for a serious sit down interview. He seems like an honest businessman selling optics, and we could use more people like him.
I like how dude isn't being a salesman. Just giving out information
it's so great listening to industry experts. Thank you for this.
Yes, I talked to Mac Gwinn Jr (RIP) some years ago at SHOT in Orlando, it was a privilege and joy.
I have astigmatism and I wanted to add: For most people with astigmatism, red dots are still usable. The trick is to turn the brightness down and cowitness it with BUIS. Same goes for EOtechs, etc on rifles. Cowitness with BUIS (1/3 or absolute cowitness).
I have a Primary Arms prism attached to the rail on my 5.56 and I don't think I'll be going back to a red dot anytime soon. The view is incredibly clean, you know exactly where the impact point is when shooting at the zeroed distance, and being able to use it without even being turned on is convenient for the times I've accidently run the battery down.
What power? I have their LPVO ACSS and like them and am considering a 3X prism for my next build.
@frosty3693 it's only a 1x because I don't shoot at very long range generally. But I've got buddies with the higher magnifications, and they're just as clear to see through. I can heartily recommend them. Especially the green reticle, very visible.
I have the 5x Micro prism with the ACSS Aurora reticle (the one that Primary Arms put in their TA31 collab). Super clear, the reticle is super readable, max brightness is daylight visible in bright, cloudless upper Midwest weather, and when I took it out to a long range to verify if the BDC marks were actually accurate for a 16" barrel with 62 grain 556, not only did they line up very well, but I also made hits ot at 500 yards with a 25-30MPH back wind. And that was my first time shooting anything past 100 yards period.
Poi to poa. As most have said. He is in a league of his own. My dad was a seal with the tx us open 199 of 200. In 69. Still remains. I may know a tic about shooting and glass . I'm a photographer for 54 years, and yes a bit differance... ex voightlander apo 2..0. 800. 10% less than the 50 Summilux 12k. Same situation. He is a teacher and luv helping folks. MY money tells me he didn't have a silver spoon. Lmao but true. A true (GENTLE )- BAD ASS MAN AND PATRIOT THRU AND THUE.
BLEESINGS
WARMEST REGARDS! AS MANY WONDERFUL FOLKS PLEASE KEEP BRINGIN DA HEAT.
@@OrtusSign59thank you soooo much , coming from a true second to none MAN!!!!
IM going with the 1x and a 3x mag. With mag metal flip ups. Now to stack them properly. With the mag dropping. Please all thoughts welcomed. Always was a scope man.
This guy is great.
Clearly he has the prism 'tism.
LOL I'm stealing "prism tism" for use in a future video.
I really like hearing Mike Branson talk, he's so enthusiastic and knowledgeable! Great content.
The last time i was this early, I'aan ibn Khalaami had the secrets of Kraut Space Magic revealed to him by the spirit of Georg Luger in the H&K Grey Room
Thats funny
It was funny yesterday too.
Lisan al-Gaib!
@@Heathen7 It's more based on the Islamic story about how the Quran was revealed. I made a joke about Ian being Gun Jesus* and now I'm expanding it.
Dune is based on Middle Eastern politics/resources and culture but it isn't connected to this in particular. Making a Dune joke about Igak Muad'ollum is a fantastic idea, however.
*Under a previous video. referencing the Three Wise Men
This went over my head.
Am I the only person being driven totally nuts by the twist in Ian’s lanyard?
Yes.
Yup. 😂
Nope
Just had to mention it didn’t ya
Yes. Seek help
Have him on again please!!!!
His excitement, his knowledge
His nerding out is amazing
I have the Primary Arms SLX3x32 with the ACSS Gen 2 reticle. It’s a great prism with the ballistic drop marks for out to 600 yds. I used it on a horrible windy rainy day, it was able to help me get hits out to 600 yds, and I even got a hit with some guess work on a 2/3 silhouette at 700 yds. Prism scopes rock!
Great optics at a great value. Their 3x micro is really good but the 3x you own is way more rugged.
@@Jorgen03 For sure, I bought it because it has many of the advantages of a Trijicon ACOG without the price tag. The thing is a tank too, one of my favorite optics.
@@jdp22960Exact same reason why I got the 5x. 👍🏻
The 2x is the ideal ak optic imo. Super forgiving for the types of mounts you have to use
@@patrickclark9430 that’s good to know. AKs are a whole other beast with optic mounting. I tried to help my buddy put a red dot on his but then you couldn’t even chin weld to see through it
Another great interview Mike.
I first saw you on TFB with James Reeves, and you did a great job there too.
The three of you should do a collab called something like ”Optics for dummies” or “Optics 101”.
It would be a massive box office.
I sincerely appreciate that there are vendors that aren't marketing the lates, greatest, ultra expensive stuff but affordable and reasonably priced gear
I've been using a Vortex Spitfire 3x Prism on my AR. It's wonderful, and the eye relief is HUGE.
It is, but adjustment is 1MOA/click, for some reason. Which is quite... coarse? (It's 0.5MOA per click for most red dots).
I'd rather be able to do the occasional precise shot at small-ish target with high confidence.
The SUIT sight we used on the SLR was a prism sight, which offered the unusual feature of the aiming needle coming down from the top of your sight picture.
Have used the SUIT, and a couple of friends have asked me to develop something similar, with like a German style post coming from the top instead of the bottom. This way as the rifle recoils upwards you can hopefully continually monitor and track your target in the clear and unobstructed bottom half of your field of view. Makes a lot of sense, but I'm afraid it wouldn't sell because almost nobody in the USA market has experience with that configuration and they would all question it, say it's too weird and different. In other words... the American shooter isn't ready for 1970's British reticle technology? Hahahaha
PS I have an FAL but mine is a "metric" style, not an SLR, and I love the gun but it is a real boat anchor. I can fight with it! I can run with it! Just... don't make me fight with it right after I finish running with it ok? Can we just stop and take a few minutes to rest before the shooting starts please?
Yeah, the SUIT reticle arrangement was a neat idea, but I don't think the advantage of not having the post obscure the target during recoil outweighs the advantage of being able to track the target as you bring the rifle up from a low ready - honestly, most troops really aren't tracking the target during recoil, and the SUIT was made for line grunts, not precision riflemen. It's like BDC cams on line infantry rifles - multiple studies by multiple nations (and multiple forces within nations) have shown that, by and large, PVT Snuffy isn't dialing range in combat (and the days of the lieutenant shouting, "Set your sights to 300 yards, lads!" as the wave of spear armed locals pass the appropriate range stake are long gone), he's holding off. So, there is little point in designing a sight with more than the simplest and most rugged BDC, *if* it is intended for the PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry), much less the 80% of the force that aren't even riflemen by trade. Save those fancy features for the guys who will actually make use of them, unless you can incorporate them into the "line" rifles without loss of other functionality, features, or ruggedness.
@@geodkyt It isn't target obscuration during recoil that is the problem being solved with an inverted post reticle. Although, with a light recoiling rifle, it could be an extra benefit for witnessing impacts and target movements. It doesn't obscure your target at range when one needs to add a bit of kentucky elevation or windage in the field. Nor during initial alignment. It would take some practice to become accustomed to an inverted post but it is no different than learning anything new.
@@GideonOptics2023 Yes, people get dogmatic in their preferences, training etc and are skeptical of different ways. The 'new' ways have to prove themselves for better or worse. You would have an easier time with the minds of new shooters. I think being able to track target movement and possibly projectile impacts is dependent on a light enough recoiling rifle so your scope view is minimally disturbed. I see inverted posts as more beneficial in unobstructed viewing during initial targeting as well as clear viewing while applying kentucky windage and elevation.
Ok, we need new rules of war. A time-out can be signaled where all ballistic dodgeball activity must halt. Everyone must stay where they are at that moment so that the time-out callers can catch their breath. No changing or charging of weapons or magazines allowed during the time-out. When the whistle is blown, the ballistic dodgeball game is resumed and all previous restrictions are removed. 🥸
@geodkyt thanks for that very detailed insight. I just thought the needle coming down from the top looked a bit odd and it does take a bit of getting used to. It would would be a niche market of old school veterans that would be interested in this.
Thanks for this. Answered a couple of questions I've had for a while. I was an ACOG guy for a long time but my developing astigmatism eventually turned the reticles into mush or double images. I always wondered why they didn't have the diopter adjustment and now I know why. No old fart eyes in military rifledom. I've gone to Primary Arms 1x and 2x prisms and haven't looked back.
I was literally "given" a medical discharge from the Army because my vision at the time precluded using prism optics. This was in the early 90s, when the only prism optics were in Artillery (gun sight + collimator) LASIK fixed it in mid 2000, but I was screwed out of the career I wanted to pursue.
Ugh, that sucks! After 9/11 I tried to quit law school and join up, but like a fool I sent in my medical records to MEPS and they saw a lifetime of asthma medications and said nope, we don't take your kind. Not being able to serve my country in our armed forces is one of a very very short list of regrets I have in my life. --Mike
Yeah i mean i wouldnt want some guy who can't see shit to be watching my back
It's always interesting to listen to someone who's super passionate about their work and have them explain the nitty gritty of what's going on.
Mike is genuinely a good dude.
Based on these two videos, the lifetime warranty, price point, and features of the optic, I purchased the judge pistol reflex sight today.
It fit exactly what I was looking for at a better price point. Thank you immensely for introducing me.
I have astigmatism and swapped out to a prism on my AR and love it. That little 1X at $230 will have to replace the red dots on a couple of 9mm carbines I have!
How did it help exactly? Do you red dots starburst?
@@theflypilot I you have astigmatism red dots won't be round. I get a comet shape... Many/most people don't know they have astigmatism until they get a red dot. Perfect vision otherwise.
@@kodiakkeith Yeah I definitely have astigmatism. My Romeo 7s starbursts bad plus I wear glasses. I imagine the prism is much better. At least I hope it solves my issue.
I choose prism as my base optic due to the simple fact it is almost exempt from the effects of an EMP. Second consideration is my astigmatism is bad enough that red dots are almost useless except for uber close range... As the gentleman said, they are low fixed power and can take care of business to 300 yards easy. For longer range I go with variable optic usually in the FFP type. I look forward to seeing the 3 power from Gideon when it becomes available. Cheers!
I'm not a red dot user but EMPs are a rather unrealistic concern
@@KarsenKeith I see it as the 4 wheel drive truck saga. Buy a 4x4 and never use it. Some will say you wasted your money on an unrealistic plan. Don't buy a 4x4 and need one just once and you may be ridiculed for not planning properly. I was in the military 40+ years ago and they worried about it then. The last time I checked, not a single country has given up their nukes and many more have now become part of the nuke family of nations. I'm just trying to cover the bases. Enjoy your week. Cheers!
If seriously worried about EMP, you may want to keep your red dot and other electronics in Faraday's cage (including a proper strongbox). Having working electronics (night vision/thermal?) in post-EMP collapse seems worth it.
This Gideon guy is awesome. He's so open and helpful and bleuuuhhhhhh! Let it all go out there. He knows a few things too, and I love that he's willing to share with others to just help. Good for him for starting a company to do just that and offer a, hopefully, competitive product at a competitive price. I'm gonna go look at their website now. This is the second video I've seen with him at SHOT show, and thank you, Ian, for creating this series. This is useful, interesting, engaging stuff. You've gauged your audience well.
This feels real, and that matters.
What a lovely chap and a great interview.
I would love to see some testing with a 1x prism and a magnifier. Seems like an ideal solution for my astigmatism eyes.
you do it.
Good idea! I have a Vortex 3x magnifier lying around here somewhere. I'll make a TH-cam on our channel about it. Yay! --Mike
@@GideonOptics2023 that would be great, astigmatism really messes up red dots for me and i'm looking at 1x prism sights but would like the ability to magnify the optic if needed.... a 3x would be around the sweet spot for a lightweight rifle at 2-300m ranges.... anything further and i'm pulling out the big boys with LPVOs on them
I did not plan on watching 13 minutes of how prisms work and honestly, I'm still pretty fuzzy on what's happening, but WOW this guy is amazing! His love of the technology and understanding of the history is definitely helpful and interesting info. He also isn't one of those sale guys that pretends like competitors don't exist - he talks about pros and cons of the very popular ACOG and uses general terms. This is pretty amazing. I really really hope Gideon keeps up making Prisms until they reach a professional grade optic. My astigmatism isn't so bad that I can't use a RMR in a pinch, so I do have one on my shotgun and my handguns are all irons only. If there was a high quality 1x prism that somehow got down to the footprint of a SRO or Acro.... oh man, I would be throwing them on everything. I always wished Eotech would find a way to make a holographic style RMR, but I really don't think there's a way to shrink everything down to that size and make it work.
He really is a massive nerd for optics. And I'm here for it! I genuinely appreciate his thoughts and views on his products.
This guy is great! Prism scopes are awesome for several other reasons. I used a 1x for a few years as a cop. I loved not having to turn anything on or worry about what magnification I was on. I also never had to worry about my white light washing the dot out 👍
I agree this guy's enthusiasm is golden (and he has an mp5 variant so you already know he's cool)
I really hope there’s more videos with Mike! He really enjoys talking about optics, and I’m totally here for it. Plus, he has a sick beard.
This guy's enthusiasm got me into Swampfox now it's going to be Gideon
I was sad to see Mike leave Swampfox since they're doing a lot of good things for budget optics, but it looks like Gideon snagged the right guy for the job if they're interested in rolling out a line of prism optics.
Just got my first prism a couple weeks back! Definitely recommend
What a lovely guy! I instantly like him! Mike seems to be that kind of guy that is just really excited to talk to you about what he likes! ❤
2:30 is giving me sweet memories of the Great War of 2016
This guy is very interesting and fun to watch, and really enjoy forgotten weapons
I just recently bought two prism optics, one for a friend's AR, and since I was waiting in the Primary Arms showroom, I decided to get a 5x for myself. My nephew has significant astigmatism -- to the point he just gave up trying to shoot the AR I helped him build. I bought him a Vortex Spitfire (?) prism optic in green, and that made all the difference. He really enjoys shooting his AR now, especially suppressed. I'll take a look at Gideon, as I can think of an AR I can put that on. Thanks for this video.
YES, We LOVE PRISM SCOPES TOO❤
Probably my fav optic I've purchased over the last 10 years has been the Primary Arms 3x that I have mounted on my 5.56 Galil Ace. Was landing first shot hits from 200 out to 500 with the ACSS reticle, big fan of it.
I'm very glad to see you covering companies like this. I picked up their Prism and man, it very well might be my favorite "dot" I have.
This guy did a very good job at explaining and is very easy to listen to Thank You.
Sounds interesting, and I like people as this guy, that is a nerd in his topic and doesn't talk down on other manufactures or specific products.
Just "we have this product and you get these benefits".
He seems like a person you could talk with for hours.
I’ve put a 4x prism on my lever gun. Love it.
Ian, the Iook at the Airgun world, Immersive Optics does sights up tp a14x50 prism sight. reasonable weight and size. problem is you need to be at almost contact to the eye range.
3:58 This makes me wonder how primary arms makes that 5x microprism work.
I hate you. Lol😂 now I can't think of anything else...... haha
Let's see..... I am thinking, after thsi video, that they have to have added another magnifying lense behind the prism. It would explain the reduced eye box from 3x and reduced field of view.....
Having him as a guest with prepared questions for him to answer at length would be a very nerdy. and I would enjoy it.
I recently bought a Monstrum 4x prism and had no idea how it actually worked, but knowing now what is actually going on inside, I am nervous about how well my purchase will hold up considering the price.
His honesty is very refreshing.
Even in hostile situations with adverse weather conditions 3x is plenty good out to expected engagement distances unless you're the guy hanging back and reading peoples names of their dog tag before you put a toe tag on them.
I picked up the Advocate for an AP 5 after seeing the first video with this guy and it works really well in that application.
Oh nice I was hoping we would see Mike again
I just love this guy. Hope this company can succeed
Love this dude! Unpretentious and knowledgeable!
These have been some excellent optic conversations! We're going to need a dedicated Q&A sometime 😉👍 I'm also thinking of trying the growing trend of testing the use of a primary red dot and an offset 3x-5x prism scope... It sounds backwards, but when do you want to take time canting your weapon to where the optic is inline with the bore? longer ranges where time and precision is often an option or from 1ft-100+ yards, which slows down your time to your first aimed shot when using an offset dot... Jeff Gurwitch on his "modern tactical shooting" channel has a great video on the topic... If I'm going to mount a tube optic for more primary precision use why take the weight penalty (and other problems) of a 1-8x LPVO that really still requires an offset dot when I could have much more magnification for the same or less weight while still having a decently low 2-5x low end while still having much better high magnification primary use capabilities, along with the offset dot... Basically a basic carbine setup vs. DMR setup by just swapping the placement of the two optics... Especially if you want NVG capabilities for the carbine, or want clip on enablers for the DMR which would be wasted on LPVOs or Prisms (even though I still like primary 3x+ prism setups for certain things, but this is a do all type philosophy)... The offset magnified prism concept is really just now a possibility to try for the entire firearms market... Given availability, size, weight, lower prices, and more mounting solutions of the newest generation micro prism scopes... Basically that magic 1-4x/1-6x Elcan concept, but no levers, no POI shifts, no fussing with magnifiers (magnifiers definitely aren't a perfect solution, just another optic in the way of your primary aiming optic 😉), or LPVO levers that usually go from min-max... A good proven primary do all dot, with the additional capability of magnification by just canting the rifle consistently is an interesting concept, atleast to me... I know it sounds backwards, but you should definitely have a look at Jeff's video on the topic and his test platform/results so far! 👍
These guys make a good team
Very cool, learned a lot.
I have a Primary Arms prism on an M16A1(ish) clone and its eye relief is nothing near what that Gideon optic is lol.
It's a pleasure listening to an optic enthusiast and Ian, it provided me with very useful insight about prism optics.
I inherited a Colt flattop carbine recently, right now it only has irons. Thinking about going with Henry's idea of putting a dot on it, and then having a prism cowitness on a QD mount instead of a magnifier: you don't need to worry about PoI shift on the QD, because the dot doesn't move, so you either use that or zero the prism so the reticle aligns to the dot.
Glad to have this guy back on!
I love my prism sights because I don't get the spikes from my astigmatism as I do on dots. As a guy who's gotten DNF on courses of fire because my sights self destructed, and had dots die on the range... that the prism will work after the illumination fails is a genuine bonus.
Finally a video about optics friendly to my astigmatism
I can only use 1moa dots, anything larger becomes a starburst. Love my Vortex Spitfire 1x (gen1) and Primary Arms SLx 5x w/ ACSS Aurora reticle. Prism optics are a game changer for anyone with astigmatism. I just wish there was a way for us to enjoy holosights, but that will never happen.
@FuzedBox I can use a holosight, I have an Eotech on my AK, but I have to concentrate for it to stop blurring, something I never have to worry about with the Primary Arms slx 1x I have on my AR. Then again, the Eotech was something I bought before I found out about my astigmatism, so oh well.
@@FuzedBox an interesting thing I found about holograpics sights is while the reticle looks like garbage to me naturally, having a magnifyer basically fixes everything. Probably a simple science there but I'm too lazy to look it up.
This guy's enthusiasm is infectious
I would also like to state as someone with astigmatism I have also found circle dot red dots much like prisms to be very clear, versus just a dot with no circle.
I have a red dot on my AR. My astigmatism that has developed in the last 10 years or so makes to so hard for me to see clearly through it. So this prism 1x might be exactly what I need.
Very cool video. That guy really knows his stuff.
Gideon deserves a good look. Very impressive and informative.
I have a Burris AR 1X and it works with a magnifier , but i bouhght it for two reasons, one is for the CQB aspect of a dot sight and two because of an astigmatism that doesn't let me use red dots. So if you want to shot at long range you can with a flip to the side magnifier.
Regarding the large 5.5x ACOG, I would love to see a comprehensive break down of of its function and the viability of such a large prism optic. There isn't a lot of info about it owing to its relative unpopularity compared to its smaller siblings - though from what I've read, those who have it and use it seem to really like it.
Two delightful gentlemen.
I have a quick detach mount I made to fit my quick detach ring bases on my .375 H&H with a SwampFox Raider Micro Prism. For close in buffalo and other dangerous game it is the way to go.
I got to try one of those cheap (all relative, ~600 bucks) microbolometer, cam based thermal scopes. Useful range away from city light - well for _spotting_ I could fairly easily spot a person at a kilometer. For accuracy of aim I have no idea, but it was pretty accurate at 200m, didn't have a useful target to test beyond that. But it was surprising and positively strange in many ways. Being camera based, actually looking through a lens but into a small screen was weird. Having a big zoom range like a digital camera, on something that small, was even weirder. There was autofocus but for that kind of pricetag the default setting was rather aggressive and not perfect, at least at long range. But it was adjustable, so when turning the autofocus down it calmed down a lot and stopped hunting. It got me maybe 90% there, and the manual lens focus ring would quickly get me the rest of the way.
I always imagined general mechanical stability and integrity would be a major issue with a construction like this. That at minimum it would need a crapload of fairly soft dampening, which would at least have a substantial risk of stuff not bouncing back to the exact same position. But if I understand correctly, the electronics have gotten incredibly small, and the ability to make small high precision germanium lens(es) have gotten really affordable. So it's able to cope with the forces of being stuck to a firearm, because those components are so small and light that they have practically no inertia. So as long as they're fixed well, they don't really need any notable dampening :) The little screen still has some mass to it so that has dampening, but it doesn't really matter if that happened to shift a tiny bit - because it's just a screen. In theory you could jostle and turn that display whatever way you like, heck even take it off the "scope" and hold it in your hand if there were extension wires, and it won't affect the accuracy. Because it's not actually part of the optical path.
It does feel a bit gimmicky, but it's obviously a useful gimmick. I never really thought something like this would be available to civilian market, certainly not anything remotely close to this price. I think resolution of the sensor was 640 times something. There was a 50hz mode, but it seemed like there was aggressive signal amplification going on to get a useful image at longer range with that little exposure time, because there was a lot of noise. But at 20 or 24 hz I didn't notice any signal noise, at least not easily percievesble on such a small display.
The Vortex 15x50 comes with mounting parts and has a roof prism so there is no bend in it. The only question istwilight vision, being 50 instead of the Usual 60mm at the objective lens. But its light gaterning for its size is phenominal. The whole business is calle "folded optics" that gives higher magnification witha shorter tube. Zeiss West and Aus Jena (Zeiss East) were doing roof prisms 40 years ago. Aus Jena had a 15x60 monocular
I'd like to see a presentation with cut-aways, I think it would be interesting and be good content in general.
Great Video with an amazing pair of storytellers!
Roof prism binoculars have always been available, and cheaply. I bought my first 8X40 roof prism binoculars about 45 years ago, with kid allowance money (that I saved up for a couple months). Plus rubberized, camouflaged and floatable !!!
Minor correction for Mike, according to Gideon's website their micro prism has 1MOA clicks, not 1/2MOA.
Yeah, I got all excited back there and flubbed it. You are correct.
Love guys like this i could listen to them for hours lol. Great guest
I like this guy. It would be really cool if you did a bunch more videos with him!
A truly honest gentleman!
Now I know who Binoculars work. Thank you Ian :)
Never got to try a prism scope before being at IWA last month. Tried some at the Primary Arms booth and absolutely loved it. Besides the fact that it confirmed then that i have some form of stigmatism.
Their micro prism is just a great scope, and with the etched reticle is like having back up irons build in if there would be something wrong with the battery. Was looking at a Holosun AEMS red dot, which i tried also when at IWA and its a great dot and it didnt change shape at all.
But just loved the prism for having the reticle, if there is enough light i dont have to turn the uliminitation on and as an added bonus. The prism scope was also quite a lot cheaper to get compared to the AEMS.
Magnifier compatibility sold me.
I have a primary arms 1x prism. At 100 yards my target is smaller than with the naked eye. Absolutely not getting another prism optic to replace a red dot. Haven't tried a 3x or anything but I bet it's better than a red dot and magnifier.
Such a great interview and explanation.
I fucking love this guy.
Hope you will do a Q&A with him on optics. He's a no BS guy !
I was just asking myself this question, and here we have an answer!
While I like the guy (I too am biased toward prism optics.) I can’t help but call out that the thing about the ACOG not having an external focusing assembly was not because they thought all young folks have the same eye shape. It was a durability thing. Otherwise you’d not have to worry about issuing corrective glasses and teaching using the optical center of prismatic optics with them.
And I do think the point of prisms getting big for higher magnification is struggling from short booth interview issues, in that, several prism configurations exist that can do high magnification in small packages. But, the trade offs of them would not make them good small arms optics for military use. The Schmidt-pechan prism of the ACOG isn’t as efficient but allows for greater eye relief and larger field of view when paired with a good objective lens (hence the larger body). Great for a combat gun. But slow competition optics can get up to 14x in seriously small packages not taking into account pocket magnifiers smaller than some modern phablet phones.
The ACOG one I think he’s just repeating things that just aren’t true sadly, but as for the second point of small high magnification prism optics suffers from having to try to condense a lot of info into a quick booth interview format.
That's kind of what I meant though. When the ACOG was first developed and issued, the policy was you either have 20/20 vision or better, or you are corrected to 20/20 vision, or you won't get the optic issued to you. You'll get something else. I'm not saying all military eyeballs are identical, but I am saying there is a military specification infantry eyeball, said specification being 20/20.
I don't know if that is still true. Maybe they issue them now to guys who aren't correctable to 20/20 and the policy has changed. But when the original 4x was adopted in the late 1980s, it was 20/20 or no ACOG for you.
Love prism scopes, after I used one I could not go back. The size and weight benefits are also great to have