Cybertruck vs Ram vs Raptor Aerodynamics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2024
- Testing the cybertruck, ford f150 and dodge ram aerodynamics, usinf computational fluid dynamics. In order to find the coefficient of drag, and look at the aerodynamics.
Cybertruck 0.39cd @ 60mph
Dodge Ram 0.59cd @ 60mph
Ford F150 0.56CD @60MPH
All figures are approximations at best, however it gives a good idea which cars have lower drag.
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Please bear in mind that the cd figures I have said could be way out!
This simulation used old software and potentially inaccurate models.
There is a lot of room for error.
There are a couple of genuine aerospace engineers saying that the drag is much higher than my results suggest, trust their results not mine!
What matters is the comparative results. Errors in one model should be the same as the other models. Use the comparisons to calibrate the actual figures. Try comparing with Model 3. MOdel 3 drag coefficient should be around 0.3 using your software also. The actual one is 0.23, lower than Model S at 0.24. dodge Ram 1500 Regular Cab 4x2 has a drag coefficient of 0.360.
Boats and Engines - Here’s an additional analysis -
interestingengineering.com/teslas-cybertruck-aerodynamics-do-flow-smoothly-as-per-a-cfd-analysis
Your on the reddit train, prepare for more subs
Hi. Where did you find the model for the Cybertruck?
Also, the Cybertrck is flatter underneath. No engine bay, rear dif.,driveshaft, etc.
It's very refreshing indeed to see someone admit the possible faults in their method and warn against drawing hard conclusions. That deserves a like.
Problem is if you publish "junk" it eventually becomes "fact" as the confirmation bias people will be quick to proliferate anything that suits their needs.
“... please don’t sue me, Elon musk, please post that picture of my cat”
Wow! Hilarious 😂
But you have a point there.
Elon Musk: the only CEO of 2019 who doesn't enjoy suing everyone to death.
OK this truck might be better than other trucks, or it could be a lot more dangerous to anyone who drives it. Are pedestrian deaths really up 51% in the last decade due to SUVs and trucks? And how about children more than four times more likely to die in crash when hit by a truck or SUV? Wake up America this is not a safe friendly vehicle -And even full self driving won’t stop deadly mistakes like cars and pedestrians suddenly being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Smaller lighter vehicles are safer on Americas roads
@@wonderplanet343
Ok boomer
It must feels good to like your own comment eh
@@wonderplanet343 if you get hit by a car , even if its a small car it willl fuck you up
Mathieu Mansire
Obviously I’ve never been hit by a car (luckily), but calculations never lie:
Getting hit by a 1-2 ton vehicle driving at even a leisurely 30 mph *is* going to hurt...
... *a gazillion truckloads lot!!*
EDIT: Reduced the speed from 50 mph to 30 mph, as 50 mph is well within the death zone. 30 mph is only testing the waters of the death zone, but will still hurt a gazillion truckloads lot!
“Ford - please don’t sue me.
Dodge - please don’t sue me.
Elon - can you post my cat on twitter?”
😂... idk why but Elon seems like a good guy who would never sue someone for reviewing his products.
tried to sue top gear for exposing his tesla's.
nick leback they probably deserved it lmao
Elon claimed Top Gear's review contained misinformations and lies. Evidence was shown (not enough for tangible proof), but he lost the lawsuit on the basis that Top Gear was "entertainment" more than "facts". But, thanks to that, Tesla was ready when a writer tried really hard to kill a Model S. You might want to watch the full story below.
th-cam.com/video/yFNeUKB-sbU/w-d-xo.html
@@nickleback3695 TopGear exposed themselves as liers. They admit that every single thing they do is for entertainment and not facts, they admited that not one single presented fact should be treated as such.
@@DejanPericOslo they always did the same thing to the corvette and other american cars, its one of their sticks making american cars always look dangerous and poorly build.
take that how you will.
Mythbusters found that driving with a tailgate up was more efficient than driving with it down.
I don’t know if they tried with bed covers.
Model and speed dependent also, my old Courier did better @ 55 with tailgate up, down with speed over 65. I think at 55 it captured an air pocket and the main body of air over the cab ended up going to the tailgate while at higher speed that pocket shrunk closer to the cab and the tailgate ended up being just another vertical surface.
Also of note, I had a mid 80s Escort that got better mileage when i hauled a giant cargo bag on the roof.
@@ty2010 The dodge and the Ford have both addressed this by making the tailgate have a large flat top. drag test proved tailgate up was better than down, and gone. still no data on the cover though.
@@enigma9789 Valid for 2015+, my present f150 is an 82
Also with tailgate removed but one of the plastic nets added slightly improved fuel efficiency vs stock design. This isn’t all that surprising since the engineers who designed it likely optimized the vortex losses for the tailgate up, and whomever designed the net likely did some modeling too and found a design that was slightly better to avoid getting sued for false advertising about improving economy.
@@ty2010 actually its 2010 F150 and up. I get 18mpg hwy with my 2011 screw 5.0, just rolled over 200k
It takes a British to tell you point blank “go do it yourself”.
About 12 years ago I did a CFD run on a Nissan 350Z and a had higher-than-expected drag coefficient. I was told that this is a consequence of having a relatively small solution domain. But then again, I was running right up to the limits of the hardware. It looks like you are dealing with exactly the same issues.
it would be interesting to see the mesh he used. and it seems that he scaled down all trucks? or what do these numbers on the right side represent?
@@RCP-1136 he only scaled down the Ram and the Ford so it wouldn't show their accurate, better than the Tesla's numbers.
@@bryanhersman4037 Well... Afaik coefficient of drag is not affected by the size, so it shouldn't really matter all that much.
And anyway, as the guy in the video said, if you think you can do it better go do it yourself! :D
@@FlamingToaster it certainly is, anybody that has done model size testing in a scaled down wind tunnel vs full size testing in a full size wind tunnel will tell you. It can be made accurate but you have to do some math and scale the speeds as well. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790022005.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjh0aia4KnmAhUEuZ4KHTvKD8sQFjAOegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0nbW4PbRE873mfPI8Erpgh
So the program (because of the inputs) is literally testing the aerodynamics of a 1/10th scale toy at 65 mph which is the same as a real truck running 650 mph. Do you think that's going to give the same CD reading? Does the air have the same chance to reattach at 650 mph vs 65 mph? All he has to do is take 10 mins and fix the size on the other trucks or at least scale down the Tesla so it's apples yo apples. By having models vs full size it's designed to mislead. Besides we know what the other trucks get and it's not .55, more like .36 for a Ram. He is just trying to claim the number the computer gave on the Tesla is not accurate. That number sounds about right. Here is a much more professional analysis on the Tesla that shows .48 Cd. www.linkedin.com/pulse/tesla-cybertruck-more-streamlined-than-looks-wouter-remmerie/
It would be interesting to see these results calibrated using vehicles for which CDs are more known like Models S3X.
what if there were no cover on the bed with cybertruck?
It would definitely increase the cd, I don't know how much though.
Very interested in seeing this one too.
its designed with it
Also you could assume that if it’s open it’s full of somthing that’s to big to let you close it
The cover is included and slides down I imagine the vast majority of the time you’ll have it closed
Good video. Point valid. After all the cyber truck looks more like a wing/lifting body than the other trucks. Only makes sense that it has a better aerodynamics
if i had to choose between cybertruck and anything else i would choose cybertruck in a heartbeat . its refreshing to see ppl not going the same rute everybody else does . it looks fucking great and i bet will also perform great
Nice to see something that goes beyond idle speculation and actually produces a coefficient of drag figure even if it is generally too high. So the roof line is not as tragic as had been suggested by others using nothing more sophisticated than uncalibrated eyeballs. While it is true the Cybertruck lacks external mirrors I'm assuming the drag would still not be as bad as the Raptor or Ram if it did have external mirrors (or am I being naive here).
Yes I think your conclusions are correct. I do need to highlight that my results could be totally wrong! There are a lot of variables involved, I'm not an expert and the software I'm using is old fashioned.
There have been a couple of genuine experts saying that the cd I'd in fact around 0.47, probably better to trust them than me!
I will be very interested to see what tesla say it is.
considering most Tesla vehicles have awesome drag coefficients i think the Cybertruck would have a better coefficient than almost all trucks on the road
Yes but the cybertruck takes a different design approach to the other Tesla's. As far as I can tell it focuses less on efficiency and more on just being physically tough and easy to repair in terms of bodywork.
@@nadaso8819 The Tesla truck will be just as bad as the Honda Ridgeline. Makes sense since they are both unibody fake trucks. It's funny how my 2000 4runner is more of truck than real trucks these days...
Are you lowering the truck enough though? On highways it'll decrease its height significantly.
Air suspension Rams do the same thing.
@@skuzzyj air suspension Rams aren't flat on the bottom
I'm wondering the same thing...would changing the height have any effect on the drag?
@@Big_Red_Dork
That's fair.
I think it is mostly because of the cover of the rear portion of Cybertruck. Even if we could use some soft cover the portion from rear edge of cockpit to tailgate on F150 or RAM1500, the performance will be much better
Haha subscribed for that disclaimer at the beginning
Thanks for this. 2 questions for Raptor owners. 1. Does filling in the front outward bumper holes with lights and a backing plate improve drag. The idea is that more air would spill to around the wheels instead of being caught in the wheel well. 2. If running a rooftop tent on a rack on the back bed that sticks up 12" or 30 cm, how much drag does that add? Looking at your model, it would appear there is good laminar flow at the end of the cab toward the box, but maybe not. It might already be a little turbulent or low pressure that.
I'd say tonneau covers are popular enough that they warrant a run.
So, for future vid ideas, I'd be most interested in tonneau vs. no tonneau. Roof top tent on the roof, on a rack at the back of the truck, on a rack, but only sticking up a few inches. With fog lights and backing plate in the bumper holes and without. If you are already busy on other projects or can't easily model these variables, all understandable. Raptor vids generally receive a lot of views. Am about to purchase a roof top tent for my Raptor, so a timely question for me.
I ordered one!
Brian Fischer when is your triangle being delivered ?
Rush 777 it looks like I’m about 100,000 orders in. I prefer the term “three dimensional abstract polygon truck”
Brian Fischer each to there own, I’m behind Tesla and Ev’s just not that design.
I’d just wait. It’s still needs to be updated and because this is such a big thing right now I’m sure there will be other futuristic car designs announced or released around the time it hits the road. I wouldn’t be surprised if other cars make this perceived as if it was an early 2000 Tacoma compared to what they look like now. I still want one but I’m definitely going to sleep on it because I know this is just the beginning.
Not yet for me. This electricity stuff is too new, I'll stick with steam powered transport, thank you very much.
this is sooo cool
Very interesting videos- thanks for posting. You don't mention anything about the bottom of the trucks. I'm sure it would be extremely difficult to model on ice pickups because there's a forest of drag factors, whereas the cybertruck belly would be pretty much one smooth sheet. So potentially a very big difference to consider between the types.
Elon Musk just sued your cat.
Too much cuteness in one picture.
Is it possible that the software is just having a hard time calculating around curved surfaces? Compared to straight lines?
Yes someone suggested that I may just be close the limit of my hardware, causing higher numbers. It sounds plausible.
@@BoatsandEngines When ya upgrade your hardware, whenever that is, let us know by running the CFD simulation again. Thanks mate! 👍
@@BoatsandEngines just rent a machine on the cloud with pro specs. few dollars here and there when you need an accurate test
@@SoussiAfif his sofware is also not so good so he would have to spend quite a lot to get good results
Elon is the type of person to actually post your cat on Twitter.
Clicked for wind tunnel blah blah but subbed for that alien spacecraft at the end.
The lack of holes in the grille will make a huge difference. The holes allow air to pass through and make its way out of the underside of the truck and more importantly over the windscreen. It creates a much smoother airflow over the entire top of the truck with less separation. Basically creates a skin of smooth air across the entire width of the trucks windshield. You can see this in action as you drive down the highway and see bugs or dust flow over the glass vs plastering on it like old models.
wrong.
@@nothanks3590wrong?
maybe I misunderstood the point you were trying to make... it seems you are sayin that having an open grill improves aerodynamics, it doesn't.
@@nothanks3590 K... Coming from an engineer....
A perfectly aerodynamically sleek shape is best (think land speed record cars). But we are talking about the "best case" of THIS form factor (aka a truck).
Using openings in the body of a vehicle to create a laminar flow over certain less optimal areas of geometry is a common practice in the automotive field.
An example, newer cars use vents that intake from the front and project a high pressure bubble over the wheel openings to prevent detached flow around the spinning wheels. The "loss" of efficiency from intaking air greatly reduces the drag over the rest of the body's side panels, so the overall efficiency goes up.
Another example is how some Mercedes or Audi convertibles extend a airfoil above the windshield line (Increasing cross sectional area, and overall aerodynamic features) when the top goes down, This creates a pressure bubble and directs airflow over the open cabin in a much smoother path, making the experience quieter, and less windy. Many cars with sunroofs also use a similar mechanism with a vertical air dam to create the same effect. Buffeting = Drag.
Another example is active aerodynamics as seen on some super cars.
Another example is what I stated in the last post.
Sometimes the small loss in efficiency here or there can create a huge gain elsewhere. This is one of those times.
I'm not saying that the Tesla isn't better than a RAM or Ford, I'm just saying that these tests are not showing a real representation of the RAM or Ford. I would bet the difference is not as huge as this video suggests.
cyber truck vs, normal sedan, normal hatchback, vs suv, and vs sportscar? thats what id love to se :D
Please explain what we are seeing. It was a bit confusing interpreting the sims, but regardless thank you!
After hearing you say cybertrack, I'm imagining that Russian guy who turned a Bentley into a tank doing the same here. It would be awesome.
should put a cover on all the trucks so it's equivalent. Most people where I live put on a tonneau cover.
ye, this comparison is a little flawed. Either put a cover on the bed on all or open it up on all.
This is awesome. Could you try running these with tonneau covers on the beds? See how much (if any) difference there is.
The cybertruck design is more like a car than a truck. Next compare it to a Lamborghini, a sports car and a regular car and you will see a different result
@Omar Ignacio Silvestrini yeah. I can't bet the people claiming they love it will be the same people to criticize it if there's any problem with the truck in future
@Omar Ignacio Silvestrini people can't be really sincere just because it's ellon musk's design. Oh yeah he is rich and famous
@boatsandengines check your video output settings to avoid horizontal distortion
So how do these translate into estimated real world driving efficiencies?
This means that the drag of a simulated Cybertruck is upto 1/3 lower then of a simulated Dodge Ram/F150. At high speeds the aerodynamic drag is dominant in comparison the rolling resistance.
@@rjdverbeek I was hoping to get some range comparisons,
@@rjdverbeek This means that his values are all over the place and irrelevant.
What most people do not know is that the Cybertruck has stealth features. On traffic cameras it appears the size of a hotwheels toy car.
Why would you have the bed cover on the Cyber truck but not have one on the other trucks?
So many people and even myself thought of the worst by the design of the Tesla truck. Now more and more good thoughts has come out of how good the design is
I feel like the Cybertruck design will be more adopted in EVs and therefore the future of truck designs. They may not have the same exoskeleton concepts, so maybe more curvy, but that polygon shape that so many nobs complain is pretty cool.
Pretty sure I drew one of these when I was about 5.. mine had more guns on it though
What software?
Autodesk Simulation
Thank you for an excellent clear video presentation and impressive given your necessarily limited simulation processing power compared to a manufacturer. What intrigues me is current trucks top out at relatively low cruising speeds, unless crazy high fuel consumption is assumed. This makes one think that the cybertruck will be an efficient and possibly quiet long distance cruiser?
Mind you God help us when the police have them!
Question. I have access to solidworks. would you mind sending me the models? I have a ASUS ROG 1080Ti on the way soon I had to get it refurbished. (Shorted the RGB pins like a noob don't ask how) but I'll be able to push the simulation further for sure then.
Hello, the models are all on thingiverse. You will probably need meshlab or similar to convert the stl files.
@@BoatsandEngines Thanks for the advice and the resources when I can attempt the render I'll update by replying here.
hello there. can you do X308 jaguar aero testing? short wheelbase and long-wheelbase as well
and.... What if you close the other 2 back of the trucks?
What software are you running for the aerodynamics?
windows 10
@TheBeybladeSport wat
what is this software called?
You have to test the cybertruck with the bed open as well.
Or the other two with the bed closed
What software is it?
Which begs the question, what would happen if you round out the edges on the Tesla? Would it perform better or worse?
What software do you use for the aerodynamics simulation?
How do you prep your models for CFD? I have some models I'd like to run CFD but the interior is modeled which causes some issues in simscale.
loved the Elon Musk please post a pic of my cat
Try covering the bed. I think that would cause a major change in result.
Still think tesla would be better but nothing can be assumed without trying it out.
You know, I saw an infographic that stated CT's cd was worse than the other pickups. But then I realized those were probably STOCK pickups with 9" clearance, a chin, and conservative tucked-in tires.
Yes, I've seen them also. To be fair they are all done with more advanced software, by people with more experience than me, so more likely to have accurate results. Most seem to agree the cd is around. 47.
Having said that though if they are right and I'm wrong then I would expect to see better results on the other pickups. My software / models could just be very wrong!
@@BoatsandEngines You have increased my confidence in your model now that you've validated against other trucks. Question, does your model include a gentle curvature along the length of the truck? Because it's there, just not immediately apparent.
Im wondering if having the tray disconnected from the fast air flow is desirable. I dont use trucks, but maybe airflow directly over the tray is annoying.
Hey man I am a Mechanical Engineering Student. Can I know the reason you didn't choose Ansys? It is free for students and quite easy to get.
flow design is a million times easier to use than ansys for just a simple visual simulation.
No sir i will not model the wheels myself, your work is most acceptable as it is.
Are you able to create platooning models? Curious to see 1-2 car-length spacing between several Cybertrucks, and what that might look like?
What's the software you are running? How to get many different car models of different years and makes?
What Turbulence Model are you using? I am getting really similar CDs with both traditional pickups but only a 15% decrease on the Cybertruck, which is to be expected given its enclosed cargo bed. What are your results regarding CdA?
Elon is going to have the last laugh! The broken glass was deliberate.. and all the haters fell for it. Just wait and see what happens when the Cybertruck hits full production... he’s a marketing genius!
Do it again, but with bed covers on the Ford and Dodge. The Cybertruck will still be better, but it will be a more fair comparison.
Just comes to show the spirit of the 3 companies "Ford, please don't sue me, Dodge, please don't sue me, Elon Musk, could you post a picture of my cat on Twitter please"
Elon Musk is a person not a company.
Can you do it with a 73-81 z28 Camarom I'm interested on the aero with my car
Most people who buy trucks aren’t caring about this. They are doing work and pulling trailers. My question is how do you super charge pulling a trailer?
My back of the envelope calculations based on the 500 miles / 200 kWh battery claim is that the overall Cd * A of the Tesla truck will be not much better than that of the F150 assuming the same rolling resistance, maybe around 5 - 10%. A Cd of > 0.5 seems rather off for a modern vehicle. I have read in literature that it's estimated to be around 0.35.
Can someone direct me to this software..please!! what is it? where can i get it?
Great video, but can you do the same render with the Cyber Truck’s cover opened?
Very interesting that such an odd shape could work so well at high speed.
@Omar Ignacio Silvestrini Yeah, and not at all what would have been expected, but makes sense when the effects are seen in action. Great design!
Good analysis. You did not go into the energy use but using air density of 1.2kg/m^3 and a highway speed of 108 kmph the energy usage of the 3 vehicles using your drag coefficient figures Cybertruck= 0.4 , F150 of =0.56 along with rough manufacturers width and height and ground clearance which seems very similar for all 3 of them i feed that into power=force*velocity and ignoring factors like rolling resistance and electric motor efficiency which would generally be quite small compared to drag at highway speed of 108 kmph i get the following energy cost to overcome drag.
Dodge ram 0.30kwh/km
Ford F150 0.29kwh/km
Cybertruck 0.23kwh/km
The Cybertruck's aerodynamics give it a clear advantage at 108kmph.
The Cybertruck's design using cast aluminium front and rear assembly's an exoskeleton shell and 4860 structural battery should help keep it's weight down compared to an electric version of the Ram or the F150 lightning - will be interesting to see what the production versions weigh.
Hey
How can I do this?
Given the way the turbulence happens at the trailing end, what would be a reasonable trailer design? Does this one make any sense? th-cam.com/video/-v4RvS9uw3k/w-d-xo.html Or does the rendering on the Tesla website make any sense?
Don't combustion engines suck air which also affects the aerodynamics?
Can you please post the geometry files. Thank you!!
Someone share this to Twitter and tag Elon Musk.
Be amazing if someone can do this, I don't have twitter and my cat wants to be famous.
Ok, shared on Twitter.
twitter.com/scottbutton2/status/1200530135604056064?s=21
Pretty sure Tesla have done their CFD analyses for their truck vs the competition.
I am sure they have already tested all this things .
Cd is a bit meaningless without the frontal area. Do you have some figures? I’m trying to remember now but I think I was told by our wind tunnel guy that as a general rule, for bog standard family cars at least, that you can take the width and height dimensions from the brochure and roughly take about 15% off that area to arrive at an approximate frontal area. Probably a little different for bluff fronted vehicles like trucks though.
Cybertruck has cover on trunk and other trucks have open trunk. Why?
Because this is how each model is manufactured, the other trucks have an open bed. Cybertruck comes with a retractable cover
@@Tacitean trucks have covers also
@@meSOOlame That's fair but I don't believe they come standard on trucks, predominantly after-market
Does lowering the tailgate help?
Doug Golde Lauren the tailgate would not help the stroke. But I suspect a horizontal vortex splitter across the back wood.
Makes the drag WORSE
I got into an argument with my dad about whether or not traditional truck designs have inherently bad drag coefficients compared to other vehicles due to the changes in cross sectional area causing air separation. Guess I'll have to show him this video...
Good work!
Have you had more than the usual number of views on your last couple of videos, sir? Looks as if you have picked a good couple of topics for them, despite the controversy!
setup seems questionable - but you compared it to other cars with the same questionable setup so if oyu just look at the comparison between them the actual error shouldn't be too big
for starters it seems like the ground in your model is not moving backwards along with the air but instead remains stationary relative to the car - so due to friction with the ground there's a layer of air close to the ground with very little relative velocity
Cool software. What's your github? 😛
What's your CPU and Ram amount?? It's not just the GPUs fault the pc crashed
That's crazy coefficiency, my z31 has .31 coefficiency and its a low, sleek sports car that was touted by the engineers to be the best of the best out of Japan for the time period. Car for reference - www.xenonzcar.com/z31/images/84%20AE/paintscheme.png
Can you do a Rivian, Hummer and Cybertruck 👍
This guy doesn't surprise me. He builds rockets for crying out loud.
Pretty damn good ones too. Boeing, Lockheed and Ariane are fucked if they don't come up with something new real quick.
I'm glad at least the rockets don't look like this... On the other hand, that "Starship" thing looks like a bucket (I know which impression he was going for). All in all, I really hope Musk is a much-much better engineer (or rather has a team of such) than a designer.
Could you perhaps try these with the bed covers that people get or even those canopies? Are there even models of the canopies? I'd be interested in seeing just how much the drag coefficient could be improved on the traditional pickups. Excellent vid btw, I had been wondering how aerodynamic the Cybertruck is.
Where's the cow?! 😂🤣✌
Are you from 'Straya mate?
Heres a nugget for you. People do not buy trucks to be aerodynamic.
Thanks for the great video! Just out of curiosity have you tried modeling a trailer behind the truck? Could be interesting to compare what happens to the CD of each truck when you put a brick (trailer) behind it.
Can you run it with covers on the old trucks and also with the tailgates open?
Go Elon Musk! Go Cybertruck!
I would expect tires not ginormously wide are more efficient.
A more fair comparison would be to do the tests again with the truckbed of the Tesla opened or to test the other pick-ups with a bedcover
You forgot the bed in the cybertruck
I'm not an expert at all but if I'm impreting this correctly, it looks like airflow over the bed would actually be faster on the Tesla, where it's very slow on the other two. Sure that makes it less efficient but would that actually make an uncovered load more likely to blow away on the Tesla?
A similar video comparing CD for a truck with and without a canopy would be interesting.
Every truck made from now on will look somewhat like a Tesla Cybertruck.
There is no such thing as a 2016 raptor. Btw you modeled a truck that's been out of production for 6 years