I'm always feeling the pain of what happened to me and I still cause pain in others how is that.. I'm not sure can anyone tell me mayb why.. How dies feeling the pain heal it.. In fact all this pain that I'm feeling is making me sucidial.. Shit ass.. No way yeah way.. What I'm doin wrong I dunno.. Please if Anywan has any ideas please let me know.. Thank you.. Please.. Peace.. X.. x..
@@miadurnel8952 Think of pain as a sad feeling deep inside of you. When you feel your sadness, you will always have tears in your eyes. Hold onto your sadness and you will grow a sense of fear that you may never get the thing you've lost. When you feel your fear, your body will begin to shake in different places - you must let it happen and remember to breathe. If you hold onto your fear, you will create and engage an addiction to try to hide it. If you disengage the addiction, you're back to the fear. When you try to engage an addiction and you do not get the thing you want, you feel angry. To get into anger, you must yell, scream, and beat inanimate objects. So there are layers over our true pain. Anger - Addiction - Fear - Grief If you can't feel sad, there is something above that you need to feel first.
_to teach is to learn, to learn is to teach. They are inseparable. If you do not learn what you teach, you cannot teach it, if you do not teach what you learn, you do not learn it. Teaching and learning are inseparable. Someone who is truly wise, and speaking to a fool, is most mindful of the fact that he cannot learn for the student, so he is careful to guide his associations in such a way ... the answer flashes through his mind, when he is truly ready to learn it. The teacher, then, may be seen as though speaking from behind a viel. Does not the word "education" come from the root meaning "to draw out"?_ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ _(the essential thing in learning is the realization you do not know)_
It’s like my dad being a math teacher, but couldn’t help me with my homework cuz he was drunk. I’d run into his students who said great things about him. I’d feel so left out and dismissed.
Wtf!? Did we have the same dad? I just remember crying and shaking because he got so angry that I didn’t understand it, but, he was inebriated. I’ve had so much trauma, tbh, I don’t even think this book would help. Oh well.
Alice Miller saved my life. When I first encountered her work in my teens I wasn't fully aware of the fact I was being abused and it's very likely I would have ended my life if I hadn't encountered her ideas. Still, I feel deep sympathy for Martin and anger at his mother for being an abuser and hypocrite. I'm glad he had his chance to tell the world the truth.
eastalawest 💗 Hi, I was just considering reading The Drama Of The Gifted Child to help get a hold of my life, but came across polarized reviews n Amazon and then this. I know you can give only your experience now, so I am asking if you’d still recommend the material of Alice Walker. I’m only interested in whether the information can help me overcome my adult ptsd sort of issues. Thank you if you share 💗💎💗 Be safe. Be well ☮️
@@orchidsrising7910 It's good material. And it goes to show you how sometimes healing requires more than one generation. And also that someone as deeply wounded & yes flawed as Alice Miller still furthered humanity along the path of our collective evolution.
Wow. I'm a 44 year old daughter of immigrant parents and I am trying to scrape my jaw of the floor. This simple interview just validated the part of me that has taken a stand against my own mother and rest of family that she turned against me, even though in this moment I find myself homeless, having left the violence of aging, but dangerous parents who while parasitically using me, declared publicly, my uselessness, even though I hold a masters degree and have many worthy accomplishments under my belt. My mother was trained as a teacher, and her first words to me when I greeted my waiting family with degree freshly conferred, "hmfp....I guess you finally beat me, you have one degree more than me." It was the first shock wave into my consciousness that all was not what I had understood about my life and relationship with my mother. I was truly stunned. It has taken me years to sort through it all. Thank you for this. It means more than I could simply convey in a comment. I have been struggling to write my story, and I too face this guilt to the point that I contemplated using a pseudonym because fame is not my aim, the truth and the story which I believe has imprisoned far too many adult children is needing to be exposed and brought to the front room of therapeutic conversation instead of hidden in the backrooms as the taboo of our work which might have the biggest impact on the emergence of a kinder, more gentle world if we could just be brave enough to come forward.
It is like how the fans of Joan Crawford and Bette Davis attacked their daughters for writing about their abuse. Abuse from mothers is such a taboo subject, and much more common and pernicious than is reported. It is only acceptable to talk about abuse by fathers. Hopefully more people will have the courage to bring this to light.
I am talking about it on my fanpages in English, Italian and Polish facebook.com/Virtual-Campaign-to-Stop-Female-Violence-against-Men-and-Children-447702755303474/ facebook.com/Campagna-Virtuale-contro-Violenza-Feminile-su-Uomini-e-Minori-438245596255162/ facebook.com/Wirtualna-Kampania-przeciwko-przemocy-kobiet-wobec-mężczyzn-i-dzieci-915462111968388/?modal=admin_todo_tour On my blog too here some text in English - statistics, but few people have the courage to help and sharing and media is not interested :( sabinagatti.blogspot.com/2013/07/prosta-i-logiczna-kalkulacja.html Feminist has to much money, it's big business :(
@@sabina7978-e4y stai facendo un lavoro bellissimo, che dio ti benedica. Lo sai che i delitti a sfondo sessuale su donne e bambini (che purtroppo avvvengono in maniera sistematica su scala mondiale, e dei quali ometto i dettagli, ma basta leggere le statistiche degli studi sulla condizione dei minori non accompagnati nel mondo) sono alimentati da un a perversione che gli uomini sviluppano come conseguenza degli abusi sessuali subiti dalla loro madre? Si tratta di madri bipolari in fase maniacale: nessuno sembra volersi occupare di queste atrocità, a nessuno sembrano interessare le radici di questa malattia mentale (che è una psicosi): cosa danneggia una donna fino al punto da farla abusare sessualmente dei figli? Eppure succede e sono fenomeni prevedibili che potrebbero essere monitorati, invece ci limitiamo a raccogliere i cocci quando le tragedie si sono già consumate. Le uniche tre istituzioni che si occupano di questo, o fanno solo teoria (gli istituti di ricerca), o sono concentrate sul togliere un figlio ai genitori, che già è fortunato ad averne (i servizi sociali) oppure arrivano troppo tardi (le forze dell'ordine).
Her son seems to echo his mother's words and insights. Here is a son who discovers that his parents aren't perfect. His mother certainly acknowledges. I find her work really does show how she found that her own personal truth was incredibly painful. She became more aware of a parent's power and of her own weaknesses.
Thank you for writing this book Martin Miller! You are helping me immensely in my own relationship with my deceased mother. She wasn’t in the Holocaust but was severely traumatized by her life before she was adopted at age 6 and never knew how to be any different. I only know bits and pieces of what she went through and now at 58 years old I am in trauma psychotherapy learning how to help my inner child feel at peace one day. I have been diagnosed with Complex PTSD by my psychiatrist and psychologist. This book is very revealing as my mother did the same things to me. Tragic and yet understandable as she never had therapy and thus never understood why she treated my brother and I so horribly.
Alice Miller was mostly an intellectual then. She didn't have the capacity to put her theories and knowledge into practice. How very sad for her and her son. What a thoughtful interview. You've given me some deep insights to ponder.
Miller came to her insights and started writing in her 60s. Long after she had raised her son. It seems like people consistently fail to take this into account -- she went through a healing period and learned a lot late in life.
Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach. I knew a world renown tennis coach who wasn’t a good player himself. There are examples in almost every field of experts who make great teachers but mediocre or lousy practitioners
I’m not surprised to learn that Alice Miller was an abusive, neglectful mother. Somehow I sensed this through her writing. Although her books are brilliant, landmark contributions to the field, I felt they revealed a cold, controlling, rigid woman. Given that I had a pathologically narcissistic, abusive mother myself, my radar is, unfortunately, quite keen. I feel for her son and applaud him for telling the truth. His testimony helps those of us whose parents also presented a false image to the world.
Now, I have to admit, I did feel.something was off with this woman, even when I read her book in college. It makes sense now. I'm a Survivor and sensed something. I didn't become a massive fan, despite it being one of the best books of it's time. This is very validating for me. I thank him so much for sharing his story. I wish him all the best. Keep talking, it breaks the cycle.
Thank you very much for this interview! As a french person, I apologize for the shitstorm! :D I've read all Alice Miller's books and I agree with you Daniel : her work is brilliant and a life changer. But this interview gives a great insight of how sometimes theory is far away from day to day life. It's interesting to note that a lot of exemples that Alice Miller is using in her books come from litterature and history. On one hand, it's is so brilliant because it's so interesting to understand why Kafka or Hesse wrote this or that; or why Hitler became Hitler and why all Europe fell down in the trap of violence at this time. It helps to understand how child abuse can express itself through different ways in our society. But on the other hand, using those type of exemples has the effect of staying on an intellectual level, rather than on an emotional ou physical level (new research show how trauma can also affect deeply the body (see Bessel van der Kolk work for instance). Somehow, it was maybe a way to stay away from her own pain (the "split off" you're talking about in the interview). Also very "funny" to see the parallel with Freud. Alice Miller tells in her books how she was cast out by many psychanalists because she was rightfully questionning Freud's theories. According to her (and I think she was totally right), by doing that, she was threatening the idealized image of "Daddy Freud". Now that Martin Miller speaks out, he's also cast out by many people who identified Alice Miller as an idealized mother. I think we're still in a circle of silence that needs to be broken down! Thank you Martin for doing so! I'll definitely buy your book! :)
I had a therapist who worked with Bessel VanDerKolk and when I showed up at session overflowing with validation from his writing, she informed me she'd stopped working with him because he wasn't a good guy. I went and saw a famous author therapist whose books made me weep many times reading them. She reenacted with me for my whole three day intensive with her. Freud, Jung and Rogers all behaved in messed up ways to their clients. I've concluded the brilliant theorists can never actually "bring it" to the therapy room a lot of the time. I mean I know they are human. But these people do some bad shit and then walk away thinking they're so great.
@@jennw6809 interesting hearing about your therapist stopped working with Bessel. I have had that feeling about him also. thank you for sharing your experience!
I read his book about 3 years ago in Polish. It was a shock for me. I read and cried. I needed a few days to get myself together. Thanks Daniel for this short interview.
@ all his story, he was abandon so many times even in adulthood she had not good relationship with him, he was alone all his life - I mean relationship with parents.
@@sabina7978-e4y I didn't read his book (yet). Despite what you said, did he find recovery and happiness? He seems happy and peaceful in this interview.
WOW. I feel a little heartbroken... Alice Millers books helped me so much, in saying that Im also thrilled that her son found the courage to speak out and can't wait to read his book. Much love Daniel. Love what you do.xxx
It's a hard take away for sure. Alice spoke in the only language that began my healing journey, she reduced me to the grief or better she helped me to really grieve the losses. When I read about some of my other heroes like Woody Guthrie in how much of a serial idealizer I am of those who show courage for humanity. Hmm...
thanks for this daniel. i, too, have been deeply affected by alice miller's books. i can honestly say she changed my life. strangely, it's not surprising that she would do this to her own son. martin completes the story. it was too perfect to be real otherwise
Fadi Hindash Yes, for me also Alice Miller is really the best author of psychologist themes…..and of course it´s logically that all the terrible stuff was given from her to her son. I can see such things every day and it happened to me also. My father wanted to be a good father (my mother can´t give me the answer, she died a long time ago), but it wasn´t really possible: Only wanting isn´t the key for making it really better. And also it happened to my child. My plan was to make all the things better which my parents did do wrong with me. But when you´re breathing in the bad atmosphere of your childhood every day then it´s inside you.....and you´ll give it to the next generation.
@@beingnatural2517 ...thanks for sharing. But I find it sad and disheartening. If even Alice Miller wasn't able to solve this, though she thought about almost nothing else and tried very hard, how can we ever have hope to do things better? Accept the fact we are going to hurt our own children badly?? I see these things every day, too, and it makes me feel sad and depressed.
@@beingnatural2517 What about her writing that, if one can -- thoroughly -- get in touch with the buried feelings of victimization, one will not pass it on? (She was talking about child molesters.) The recovery takes not only talk but "moving moisture (and chemicals)," meaning weeping and sounding...lengthily and until one relaxes, with yawns and a shift in feelings. I think a good listener is needed, too...a human (aside from God which, I think is also a fundamental need). The former is very hard to find.
When 2 honest and brave people come together to do an interview like this, it is always so valuable but so rare. I've made great revelations in my own life, and much i owe to inspiration from what you have shared on this channel.
wow this is really tragic for that man, her son. i can only imagine the rage that he felt seeing his seemingly covert narcissist mother being praised worldwide, its very disheartening. i hope he has been able to find peace and a sense of justice after writing his truth.
Hmm. So you assume she is a covert narcissist? Interestingly, I know a guy who writes very important things about all-pervasive child abuse in our society (like Daniel, he states that kids are nothing more than slaves/things for almost every "grown-up" person, esp. their parent) and about proper parenting, some of which seem nowhere to be found except for his works. And he's clearly a narcissist, only an overt one. He also does *not* give advices to his disciples regarding their children based on his work. What he often tells them more or less privately is to abuse their children or to abandon them once and for all.
My father was at Normandy and I'm sure had PTSD from this and starvation during the Depression. His biological father committed murder suicide. His stepfather was so abusive, he was slyly killed by his own daughter and my father, the only witness, covered for her. He frequently told me he was proud of not being an abusive father like his own and it shocked me that he could convince himself of this lie. But in his mind, not terrorizing your kids with murderous violence was indeed good parenting. Now I forgive him nonetheless. I didn't endure those things and they broke him. But I cut him off and never saw him again, even on his death bed. I honestly feel if more of us just left these relationships, they'd start to fear it. Also, why does society strongly imply tolerating a violent parent is noble, but a battered woman should escape at all costs? No, I've met too many miserable people who should go no contact. Miller did have a gift, but like my father, the illusion of knowing while understanding nothing. It's so sad that they can even consciously describe and analyze this behavior for decades yet remain so blind about themselves.
Wonderful comments. I also would have been better to leave my parents rather than try to work things out with them. They don't even know there is a problem. They just want to continue "parenting ".
End of first paragraph: Yes & yes!! ..I only get spoken to as if the situation of a violent bf or husband or such is completely implanted in the minds of (what should be, and is meant to be) the appropriate professionals, who should have.. I mean like at the very least, a bit of knowledge about domestic violence, mental health, criminal activity..idk, the laws & just yuh know, a basic understanding of the problems & people they're job it is to help. And god forbid even entertaining the idea that a female abuser & male victim could possibly
@BL wow..my mom once said the same thing to me, "Im not a bad mother I never hit you" ...but she severely emotionally and medically neglected me and didnt protect me from my step dad or dad. When I told my therapist at 28 years old of my childhood, he said, "if you were under 18, I would be legally obligated to report what youre saying and you would be taken out of that house by child protective services immediately" ....yet my mom thinks she's a good mom because she never hit. Her mom was extremely violent to her so I can see why she rationalizes that but shes still lying to herself on some level about how good she was to me.
My mother was a very abusive and violent woman when I was a child with me and my sister. But if you ask people they would tell you, she was sensitive, artistic, and intelligent.. If you try to tell people the truth, they don't believe me and they think I am a monster, thank god my sister is another victim of her and I can talk to her, this is why I believe you Martin, Take care
Alice Miller’s books have completely changed my life with my own therapy. I still think her ideas were valid but she unfortunately could not overcome her trauma. Thank you for sharing your experience with us Mr. Miller.
Thank you, Daniel! I really appreciated your efforts to let us hear Martin’s opinion on his mom’s abuse on same many levels. I almost cried when he said about justice. Finally he got it. And thank you for the tip to your articles - I’m gonna read the next books of AM, holding back your idea on how she should conclude her logic on childhood abuse. Thanks again!
I am not surprised and I did not "idealized" her nor thought of her as a moral reference : I thought that what actually gave weight and meaning to her views is that she learned from experience the persecutor role that she denounced in her books and had been able to present it with clarity. It was somehow obvious to me since I opened her first books. But I do think she made a good contribution because they managed to give me a sense of hope that I didn't have before, an intuition that there is a place where one could hope to express the depth of his/her soul outside of the "Vicious circle of contempt".
Antoine2208 💗 I was just considering reading Drama Of The Gifted Child as an adult to try to break some of the chains my past has over me. From what you wrote I felt like asking you if her material (in your experience) still stands as a powerful way to shake off the chains of the past, despite the true story, or in comparison to newer material out today. Thank you if you respond 💗💎💗 Be safe and be well
@@orchidsrising7910 It is always helpful to make the connection between the difficulties that you had or still have in life with how your parent brought you up. This is a taboo subject and the books of Alice Miller treat it in depth and in a concise manner, more on that at the end. Regarding the author itself, the experience of Martin helps to see the author’s bias and limitation : Yes, Alice Miller was a child abuser and a bully, and No she didn’t « recover » from her own childhood and war experience even though she pretend the contrary. As a consequence, I sure as hell wouldn’t seek therapeutic advice from her and would also be very skeptical of her bleak views concerning the inevitability of the repetition compulsion and much of the field of psychiatry today. On the other hand, I would consider her books worth reading, relevant today and relatively safe because it’s an easy access to an analytical and intellectual understanding of child abuse far above the large majority of what I had to read on that subject. ** And that understanding of what you went through is always the first necessary step that precedes recovering from it, which make this book a good and pertinent early recovery read. ** That’s what people with antisocial traits are usually good at. They understand what motivates others and are savy at predicting how experience shapes how people act and feel... What we call in psychology « cognitive empathy », which they use a substitute for the genuine emotional empathy that people without those traits naturally feel...
She probably didn´t heal her traumas, and not only war-trauma, but other; uppbringing traumas, too. Martin Miller is not a traitor, but a truth whistle. This only confirms, the actual seriousness and how difficult it is to heal from childhood traumas. That even a therapeut and a fighter such as Alice Miller was/(is), couldn´t really achieve to completely succseed . We can just hope, in the future to realise the effective key-technique of uppbringing/childhood trauma healing...
The fact that Martin is able to talk about the abuse means he is one step ahead than the adults who ideolize their childhoods and parents. She did what she could with the tools she had and probably felt guilty of not managing to apply what her intellect could express so well. An abused child herself sadly....😢
Daniel thank you so much for this interview, I could not stop crying, really I have the tendency to put people on pedestals , all blessings for you guys
I had an intuition for this when I thought of the fact that she had discovered her most important ideas long after she had raised her own child. But Martin Miller's addition of details is very interesting and shows that even a perverse temperament (which rejects on others the violence she has stored) can have correct intuitions - even if the person remains unable to put them into practice. In a way, it is the most beautiful confirmation of his theory. So thank you Alice Miller and thank you Martin Miller. You have deconstructed and understood things by associating yourself, despite everything, as a two-generation job.
wonderful. I love alice miller's book, she helped change my life. It's so brave of Martin, and it helps me face the hypocrisy of my 'wonderful' parents who were horrible narcissists, but much admired in the community.
Thanks so much Daniel. I’ve been quietly waiting for Martin’s book to be translated to English. Just finished it 5 mins ago. As a longtime Alice Miller fan it was quite a thought provoking read. Martin weaves beautifully between the objective and subjective. I’m so pleased he was able to tell his side of things and I particularly like his letter written to his mother at the end of the book. The truth is a beautiful thing and I hope it has helped to set Martin Miller free. Bless you both. x
I have the same feeling just like Martin. My mother who is also working in education system as a coach or we called Master, but in the real daily life, she always downgrades me, my existence is only to satisfy mother's image. She said she loves me, but it's only in her way. All the things I feel is pressure, I can't breathe and I really don't need her fake love. I only wish one day she can realize or understand my feeling as a child. I don't need fake image. All I need is her real understanding!
Heartbreakingly sad. I must have read all of Alice Miller's books and they made a huge impression on me. I always believed any child born to such a woman with such great depths of understanding and empathy for the child would have been incredibly fortunate. I was staggered to learn the truth and feel so sad for all Martin had to deal with in his childhood from both his parents. It was a very brave decision to write the book.
It is very sad to hear Martin Miller's account - but this is not the first time I have heard about the dark side of Alice Miller. I also have most of her books, and like Daniel Mackler, I found them very useful at one stage in my life. I remember in one book, she talks lovingly about her daughter who had Down's syndrome. She said not a word about her son. I think he has done very well to come through her treatment of him (the blog I read a few years ago went into a bit more detail about it) and become a psychotherapist himself. Best wishes to him.
@@abigailh7715 very few would agree with you, her son didnt end up a murderer he is a functioning human being hopefully adding like his Mum to society.
@@abigailh7715 and yet later in her life she went through a healing period, reconnected with her feelings and processed a lot of her pain, and went on to save many lives through her work. Martin also says her work saved his life. People are not one-dimensional, either good or bad. They are traumatized and in their dissociation they pass on their trauma. That's what all of her work is about.
Martin - thank you! Your mother’s books helped me a lot and I will be forever grateful to her for publishing them. She was a monster to you, a child, and a help to you, an adult, by the way of her own discoveries. So it seems to me... Would you ever consider speaking about the role of your dad in your childhood? Daniel - you have been pursuing Alice Miller for years now. It must be deeply gratifying for you to have your interview with her son published on You Tube for the world to see. Now you can ultimately prove to yourself your discovery made years ago that Alice Miller was not a good mother to her son. As you always suspected... and kept asking her about through her website. Alice went through hell of being a Jewish girl in a deeply misogynistic family, religion, and a society. And then she had to live through monsters like her mother, her husband, Hitler, and a hellish post war German society in Switzerland. Who helped her? She is a survivor through and through, as Martin accounted.
This interview became eye opening with the questions of interviewer ....I really understand the motive behind these questions.....and also the authenticness of interviewee ..... grateful to both of you for giving this clarity
to me this is not just about a heroine having feet of clay but also about the inter-generational nature of war trauma and of the inter-generational trauma of the holocaust.
Thank-you for this although I too was a staunch follower of Alice Miller. I would read a great amount of anger and guilt coming from what I was reading in her books. For me this was a bit scary as I am myself lucky to be here alive. My parents were well? Insane and I'm the eldest of six children. I'm not surprised at what Miller's son is saying though in fact he has my full support really It's very difficult to piece things together if your very very blinded from to much abuse. So we kind of have to leave it up to individuals to make their way through their own recordings from their pasts. My life was rough true. As the eldest I also became the scapegoat and the others used me as a tool if you will. I've escaped my cycle however and it hasn't been easy . Full of stumbles gross self doubt sometimes and sometimes even gross depression. I simply read and actually took literally some of the things Alice Miller was saying and they did help though. For instance finding out which role you play in your family which I've found is true for us. This has been invaluable because of the fear and confusion in my life. I have given up though on being the mentor for younger siblings they are play their blind roles too and I have to leave them alone . Again though Thank-you for this I did suspect this however and so sorry your Mom went through what she did. And I am glad your better from her fear and darkness I am going to see if I can get Martins book *
Good on you for being so strong. I think Alice's son may, as he gets older, become more familiar with his mother's work, because, I don't know if he's conscious of it, but he speaks much of his mother's words ... Alice was very honest in her works always ready to admit her own weakness - I feel she was writing what she was discovering to be important for herself and, in turn, once Martin has moved on from his personal pain, my hope is he'll realise his mother would be proud of her articulate son facing his pain. He wrote this book because a publisher asked him to. It was his opportunity to write about his less than perfect parent. No-one expects a parent to be perfect. Alice's writing, I believe, helps us so much because she was learning - reflecting on childhood, reflecting on her conflict re her own mother, and as her own self as a mother and the pain she may have been inflicting or see the father inflicting and she unable to speak up because in those days men owned the child and it was her duty to obey.. All the best.
@@annebutt4507 But in this interview he clearly states some things that are contradictory to what you're saying. He was there so maybe we shouldn't discount or dismiss his experience.
@@annebutt4507 You're speaking of Martin Miller as if he were a child. LOOK at him. He has grey hair! He's a grown man! 70 years old now... born in 1950 (just Googled him) and an acclaimed psychotherapist. From his own words about his book, Martin has a great understanding of his mother and her need to create a fictional character of herself to show the public.
Excellent interview, and VERY relevant for me. Thank you so much Daniel and Martin, and Alice for helping me in my lifetime odyssey to see the truth, accept the truth, and be able to speak of the truth about my own mother and the profound abuse that I experienced as a tiny child and throughout my life. Family secrets are family sepsis, and what you do not bring into the air for healing can kill you--especially covert abuse.
Thank you Martin Miller! My father was the same. A narcissistic monster in private; a talented musician and successful business man in public. my father is now dead. Maybe I should write a book as well.
Just bought Martin's book. Thank you Daniel for this excellently informative and mind blowing interview. What a fierce act of courage and honesty to tell your story, Martin. I'm so sorry you had to endure such a duplicitous narcissist for a biological 'mother'. The theft of your idea about trauma without giving you credit and then sabotaging your sanity with her sock puppet Stettbacher, sounds like classic narcissist conniving. It is astonishing that you managed to survive both a cruel Nazi 'father' and his inverted-narcissist enabler, you'r biological 'mother'. It's a painful paradox that it was your 'mother's' writing that helped you. I read Drama of the Gifted Child and that really helped me when I started my own recovery process. But her other books seemed increasingly less helpful and off. Every thing you said makes a lot of sense, I believe you, thank you for sharing your story, I wish you every success and well being.
Thanks for sharing this info 'Nicky'. I just ordered Martin's book myself. This is one reader in the US who will not attack him for telling the family secrets. Bravo Martin!
Every single book of hers helped me a ton. I would read many more if she had written more. I haven't watched this interview yet but I've been wondering if Martin is actually the narcissist. Guess I'll have to find out.
Her books were published in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988 & 1990. She was nearly 60 when she wrote her first book. I think she was very self aware, discovering her failure as a Mother and did her best to discover the why and how she failed. She acheived this and will help many parents heal and reduce traumas. Hopefully her son receives some royalties from her books and can see them as an indirect apology.
Ive just finished the book - wow what an account and gives a different context to Alice Miller, the mother. The book was even more pertinent for me, as a psychotherapist that has grappled with my own trans generational trauma from a father that survived Auschwitz. That said, it was nothing on the scale that Martin describes at the hand of his own mendacious Nazi sympathising father. Huge respect to you Martin for finding the courage to write this important testimony. Daniel, if you read this I'd be interested on your views of Martin's about not "confronting" parents directly and working on the trauma in therapy?
Thank you Martin 🥰 I will buy your book, and thanks for sharing that your mothers's ideas are of use. You have a strong and important testimony. Wish you all the best! Roy, Norway
Thank you. I have bought Martin's book as a result of watching the interview. I have read and been inspired by a good number of Alice Miller's books. I had no idea she had behaved cruelly.
Thank you very much for this interview. I have been an extremely big fan of Alice Miller. Yesterday I ordered the book of Martin Miller. I can see again how the effect of extreme abuse and trauma- like the Holocaust impacts ones being and psyche.
Thank you for posting this interview. After reading Martin's revelations, I've struggled a bit with separating Alice Miller from her works. In the end, I've decided that it doesn't matter as long as her works help us to overcome our childhood traumas. We're all capable of great things and horrible things, and we sometimes do both at the same time. I think most of us hide the horrible things and promote the great things. I feel very sorry that Martin lost his childhood to this awful woman while I'm also grateful that she shared her writings with us. The difficult question, and the one no none can really answer, is - could we have had one without the other?
Good, great or even genius ideas do not indicate good mental health. I have been ''in recovery'' for 30 years and am full of great ideas...but my life and behaviours remain largely unchanged. [I'd be a disaster as a mother.] Thank you, Alice, for some great ideas; but thank you,Martin, for attempting emotional honesty.
I think an important lesson here for all of us is just how much so many of us have to heal, and how it probably makes most sense for most people at this point in time not to have children. There's just too much to heal first. We have centuries and millennia of generational and societal trauma to undo.
About 15+ years ago, I remember sitting in a reading group that I had been in for years and telling the others that soon in the future, the value of authenticity will eclipse the value of brilliance such that if a speaker or leader who is saying brilliant things we agree with, is not living what they're saying, we will no longer listen and will reject their leadership. They all were much older than me and thot I was just being judgmental and picky. It happened alot faster than even I anticipated. It's terrifying, tho, to think of how many horrors are prolly lurking behind the faces of the people we listen to. Bessell Van der Kolk was accused of some bs in the recent past. I haven't believed it. But maybe I should keep a space for the possibility. And one of my faves, Gabor Mate, who is somewhat transparent about his issues... is he still okay? Are any of us okay if the story of our behavior is told by someone who doesn't understand us at all? I know I've been the victim of some wacked out shit-talk by people. I'd like to think I could be real and stay clean about it. But what if their campaign was really slick and I was somehow torn to pieces by ignorant people who just really need a scapegoat to pin the whole tribe's sins on? My story about my own Mother has changed over the decades and, while I still can't tell a story about her behavior that makes sense to me, I can no longer lie and say she's evil and wants to hurt me. There's some intangible and non-rational 3rd thing that fills the spaces between victim and perpetrator. I've rejected the "Narc" narrative because it's just too much black-and-white thinking and violates my own standards about empathy and perspective-taking. Life sure is complicated.
I feel she did process it - it's obvious in all her works - I'm surprised her son can't see that. She knew her weaknesses. Her faults as a mother were very clear to her and that seems to help her process and understand the importance of getting in touch with her own past trauma.
@@martinmiller1690 I will buy your book. I have been helped by your mother. I wonder if her theories are now invalid if she could not practice them? Danke, Rob
Robin i know the Theorien of my mother very well. I am as Psychotherapist very allone , because i am the only therapst, who koes the theorie well. I practise her t heorie and you
Great work Daniel and Martin....All of Alice Miller books helped me process my childhood, and this revelation was riveting, can't wait to read Martin's book.
Je ne sais pas ce qui s'est passé dans la relation entre Alice Miller et son fils et je sais combien il est difficile de changer et de devenir authentique. Cela prend beaucoup de temps aux deux personnes après une relation parentale traumatisante ... mais personnellement, les livres d'Alice Miller m'ont sauvé la vie et je la remercie beaucoup. Et JAMAIS dans ses livres que j'ai lus et relus ... Je ne la ressentais pas comme une mère idéale mais comme une personne à la recherche de la vérité. Je lui ai écrit deux fois et elle m'a dit qu'il était très difficile de supporter la culpabilité d'une mère ... Je suis d'accord avec ça. La difficulté de son travail est qu'elle théorise et que cela change le point de vue. Cela peut donner l'impression qu'elle a toujours été un bon parent, mais elle n'a jamais dit cela. Elle a commencé à changer ses créations à 60 ans et à 80 ans, elle a encore changé après ..... Bref, c'est ' Il est intéressant que le point de vue de Martin Miller soit également directement concerné. J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET de la même façon qu'Alice Miller, j'ai compris que j'avais été une mauvaise mère et cherche à me guérir, mais la relation avec mes enfants je ne peux la changer et elle dépend maintenant aussi de leurs propres réparations et volontés. C'est juste une tragédie et c'est dur à vivre. J'ai transmis mes conditionnements mortifères et ne peut que ME réparer.
Pascale Fourlinnie still to her death she Never change her desructive attitude against me. The wartrauma she never chaned. She Identity always with my father, a real NAZI. In her perseption i got. the Nazi like my father.
@@martinmiller7833 Sorry for you, I read beautiful letters that she adressed to you at the end of her life and I though she changed. Perhaps not. I know how it's difficult to change when your traumas are so important. But I can listen to your perception and I thank you so much to answer to me. Wish you the best. With all my heart.
I love that you have spoken a little of your story Martin. I don't know your mother's work well enough to know if she portrayed her own parenting as perfect, sad if she did. What she has given to me, through her works, is a very clear template for the effects of violence on children's by their parents. It's hard to be a therapist's kid I guess. I love that you have given us a wee glimpse of your experience and of Alice's history that shaped her into the person she was. Thank you Martin. No one is a traitor for using their voice to speak their truth. Much appreciation for this. :)
Coming from a Re-evaluation Counseling/primaling background and appreciating the healing power of emotional processing, I did always think that Alice Miller had not had the opportunity to weep deeply, with an understanding person, as much as she needed to. (If one has read any of Aletha Solter's books, particularly "Aware Baby," one is familiar with the astounding relief and transformation that, particularly, infants and children experience when allowed to discharge their feelings to the finish with an understanding and supportive adult.) Alice Miller wrote how Arthur Janov's account of his momentous experience with a veteran's deep release of emotion about a war wound -- a resounding scream -- had caused her a great increase in understanding, but, aside from her appreciation of truthfulness in the healing process, I do not think that she followed up on its necessary connection to physical release of related emotions, and, without that, one's realizations remain, unfortunately, "cerebral," at best.
I very much enjoyed the video; thank you. Autoplay popped on "The Drama..." on audio. I read the book many years back, but this time listened to the quite telling preface, written in 1990,in which she describes her journey, via her own therapy from 1973-1988. How she's come to see errors in her earlier years, and contemplated re-writing sections in her three previously published books. She says, in the preface, that she wants the reader to see her changed/altered positions, which have come out of her exploration of her own childhood, via therapy, but she squirms away, which she explains, from the term "Psychoanalysis ". Her son, if he's been a psychotherapist for 40 years, has to be, at the minimum, early 60's in age let's say 63, making him then born in 1955-1957. Alice hadn't touched her childhood, as noted above until 1973, and through 1988. He was parented by a parent with unresolved trauma. Supportive, I think, if your videos about addressing your own traumas, and whether a person should parent before healing their own traumas first. When I first watched this video, when published, and then read some of the thoughts and information about this, I was literally distraught! Like you, I felt that she was so on-point...and she parented how??? Humanity....quite the predicament. I too know much that has not been integrated. Not "Alice Miller-know", but Osho's books are choc-ful-a wisdom, knowledge, and technique. I don't know if he defiled his followers, or the Oregon fiasco...if it resonates, it's valuable knowledge, even wisdom; yet, until embodied, it's, as he said, a projection; books and preaching to eventually hear oneself?!
Just read your book. Well done. Alice's books were brilliant but, 25 years ago, I realized that she would be no help therapeutically. In desperation, and on her recommendation, I bought Stettbacher's book. COMPLETE AND UTTER DRIVEL. I realized then that she was still very damaged, un-healed. Further, that genius ideas do NOT indicate health. Again, well done.
interesting, did you read all of her books? The were they only thing -- well, one of the most important things -- that I feel saved my life. Perhaps she is the greatest help to the most abused children.
It's humbling to understand how the figures we idolize may also have their dark side. Anyone who has had received both traumatic abuse, and love from a parent (esp. a mother) can relate to Martin's story. We try to 'make peace' in some sense with our parents. (Though we were so messed up by them.) Sometimes it takes long after their death to do so. We must also honor the hurt child within, and heal it, to become fully mature, and emotionally aware. The key is to stop the cycle of abuse if we have children. To teach them to honor their feelings and experience, and value them as the gifts they are. Never lashing out at them thoughtlessly as we may have been. This is how the world may become a better place.
Dr. Arthur Janov told us that Alice Miller came to visit with him and his wife France one time and over dinner he explained to her the practice of Primal Therapy which he is the founder of it started in the early sixties. Alice Miller used all of that information and implemented it into her own therapy approach with clients. Art criticized that and thought it was plagiarism and also dangerous because people might run off with bits and pieces of information and might implement them in the wrong way causing more problems in clients. I have to agree with him that particularly in Primal Therapy if we want to implement this type of sensitive and volatile form of therapy we have to stay in permanent touch with the founder and other people and talk about our experiences with our own therapy unfolding as well as with our clients and friends in order to have as much exposure to information about this as possible at all times. After Art Janov retired and his wife France took over the management and classes we did not get the help we needed and some people died. That is why I am proposing a world wide team work with as much sharing of information and asking questions as we possibly can to avoid making drastic mistakes. We need therapy help centers in each community that should be based on non profit.
Makes you question everything... even his last statement "But I practice it and she didn't". How would you know then? In Alice Miller's Books she told she needed more then 40 years to finally find someone (a therapist) who helped her FINALLY see through her stuff and get free of it. Sooo maybe she knew about the mistakes she made with her own son? To take that final freedom she claimed she had experienced in her late years away from her doesn't seem fair to me. Well - who are we to judge?! We don't know. And who knows if the son experiences more of the personal freedom we all seek to have? I find this a bit...disheartening. I'm not saying he shouldn't tell his truth; he should. But then how should we hope to be able to do any better for ourselves and our children?
If your adult children genuinely and joyfully want to spend time with you, I think that's a good indicator andd confirmation that you were a good parent.
We have a saying in my language, a tailor cannot mend her own stitches. Alice Miller is an absolute example of that. I feel sorry for Martin but at the same time I feel relieved that he doesn't feel sorry for himself.
I feel very positive about Martin Miller, and I also want to say that I don't think Alice Miller ever wrote that she was a good mother. In addition, I recall her writing something like: a mother's rational understanding of the repetition-compulsion will not be enough to prevent her passing on abuse and using her children emotionally.
@@waynemizer4912 I believe it was in her very first book that she wrote how frustrated fellow therapists would become with her that she didn't condemn parents. (And she very much objected to advice giving!) She only wanted to describe how the installation of destructive behaviors comes about: being mishandled when people are "dependent, and malleable," as she said, with no one near who understands and accepts the visceral reactions of the small victim.
I have never seen so many comments following a TH-cam . That may say something about how often people identify with being wounded by a wounded mother The existence of So MANY comments here also assuredly express gratitude to Martin, as I express also, for his courage in discussing this often taboo topic. I also struggled both w/a family "No Talk Law" & with what I later saw as a misinterpretation of what it meant to "honor a parent " (think Ten Commandments). My mother was a child of a father who had been the teen-age victim of a pogrom in Minsk, Russia. Our otherwise tranquil Long Island home became the platform for my mother's til death (inexplicable) rage & fury. In a graduate course I took, one teacher said: "Don't worry about what someone can't say: eventually they will act it out..." My mother herself in this sense sadly could never find her true voice. She always took pride in the SILENCE she defined as loyalty to her father. I was close to derailed by the time I became a young adult & my salvation literally was Salvation. Philosophy & Psychology could only have achieved so much in my life. In a bible study commentary this year I came across the idea that when Jesus said "One of you will betray me" at the Last Supper, Judas looked so normal that all the other disciples sincerely asked; "Lord, is it me?" NONE of them looked up & thought; "Of course it is Judas." Judas looked so normal that no one suspected a thing. In part my healing has been effected by my identity in Christ. The Son was told: "This is my son in whom I am well pleased." My identity is in His son in whom He is well pleased. So this Parent's pleasure in me is not earned by me and cannot be taken away from me. (Undoubtedly someone reading this will want to send me an acerbic, judgemental, rejecting comment. That person might be better served by reading The 7 Things that God hates" (Proverbs 6:16). After all --the 7 things that God hates is exactly how we all got here......
Watched it again and it rang a bell inside of me about my own mother. Being seen as a paragon of virtue by surrounding and and also part of my family. She showed support for people and family, but she deeply abandoned, rejected and betrayed me when it comes to my father and brother abuse. And also caused me pain herself by physical punishments, name calling and neglect. Thanks Martin and Daniel.
Such a profound truth about the limits of ideas. Humans hardly behave according to they're own ideas. No one is really fully conscious of themselves. It's only ever an effort
Alice Miller’’s books are like oxygen for many of us as they bring recognition, validation-confirmation for those who have experienced the endless pain of childhood trauma. Beyond her personal story, her work makes sense and helps tremendously. Even though it’s terrible what she did in her personal life. This does not discredit her work. It only sheds more light over the complexity of human nature.
Alice Miller’s Drama of The Gifted Child does NOT reflect the story of a perfect mother. She provided answers for those of us who suffered due to the neglect inflicted by a narcissistic parent. I am reminded of singer, Jewel’s interview on Navigating Narcissism with Dr. Ramani in which Jewel so aptly stated, something to the effect that, hurt people hurt people…AND it is, at the same time, not ok to hurt me. What I received from Alice Miller’s book was not a portrait of a perfect, I.e., healed mother. That, to me was not the point. Instead, I was offered-and chose to receive-an explanation of ME. Of how and why I came to be. And, most importantly, reassurance that I am not “bad”….a belief that I have struggled with for as long as I can remember. Additionally, I feel it necessary to reveal that I too am a mother now, and that my children have suffered as a result of the hurts I endured as a child. Alice Miller has provided me with a framework for apology to my, now adult children, an most importantly an opportunity to give that/those apologie(s) while I am still above ground.
France is sick of psychoanlysis. Alice Miller was, a time, psychoanalyst, and they use her as one of the most famous figure for their theories. So if you touch the image of one of them, they will respond, anger, violence, they are known for it. Psychoanlysis is a gangrene in psychology, especially in France. I am very sorry you had to endure a shitstorm from them. Thank you for speaking your truth, and explaining your mother to us, in a different way she was trying to portray herself. This does not diminish your mother's theories. It enlighten us about the complexity of human minds, what we think, what we know, what we actually do, can be very different things. Thank you. Hope you are well !
A profound truth: if you do not experience your own pain, you will project violent emotions toward others. Wow.
There can no other way
isnt thatcommon sense tho
Yes, as Martin Miller says, the processing of the associated feelings must take place for healing to occur. (And that may not be all. I think of God.)
I'm always feeling the pain of what happened to me and I still cause pain in others how is that.. I'm not sure can anyone tell me mayb why.. How dies feeling the pain heal it.. In fact all this pain that I'm feeling is making me sucidial.. Shit ass.. No way yeah way.. What I'm doin wrong I dunno.. Please if Anywan has any ideas please let me know.. Thank you.. Please.. Peace.. X.. x..
@@miadurnel8952 Think of pain as a sad feeling deep inside of you. When you feel your sadness, you will always have tears in your eyes. Hold onto your sadness and you will grow a sense of fear that you may never get the thing you've lost.
When you feel your fear, your body will begin to shake in different places - you must let it happen and remember to breathe.
If you hold onto your fear, you will create and engage an addiction to try to hide it. If you disengage the addiction, you're back to the fear.
When you try to engage an addiction and you do not get the thing you want, you feel angry. To get into anger, you must yell, scream, and beat inanimate objects.
So there are layers over our true pain.
Anger
-
Addiction
-
Fear
-
Grief
If you can't feel sad, there is something above that you need to feel first.
"We teach best what we most need to learn" - Richard Bach
_to teach is to learn, to learn is to teach. They are inseparable. If you do not learn what you teach, you cannot teach it, if you do not teach what you learn, you do not learn it. Teaching and learning are inseparable. Someone who is truly wise, and speaking to a fool, is most mindful of the fact that he cannot learn for the student, so he is careful to guide his associations in such a way ... the answer flashes through his mind, when he is truly ready to learn it. The teacher, then, may be seen as though speaking from behind a viel. Does not the word "education" come from the root meaning "to draw out"?_
~*~ ~*~ ~*~
_(the essential thing in learning is the realization you do not know)_
It appears she suffered from huge cognitive dissonance. I am going to read this book.
It’s like my dad being a math teacher, but couldn’t help me with my homework cuz he was drunk. I’d run into his students who said great things about him. I’d feel so left out and dismissed.
My dad was a hard working driving instructor, but never had time for my lessons. I now exactly what you mean.
@@user-wj3yr7xr2f There's an old adage that the cobbler's children never have nice shoes.
Wtf!? Did we have the same dad? I just remember crying and shaking because he got so angry that I didn’t understand it, but, he was inebriated. I’ve had so much trauma, tbh, I don’t even think this book would help. Oh well.
Similar story to mine.
me too
Alice Miller saved my life. When I first encountered her work in my teens I wasn't fully aware of the fact I was being abused and it's very likely I would have ended my life if I hadn't encountered her ideas. Still, I feel deep sympathy for Martin and anger at his mother for being an abuser and hypocrite. I'm glad he had his chance to tell the world the truth.
eastalawest 💗 Hi, I was just considering reading The Drama Of The Gifted Child to help get a hold of my life, but came across polarized reviews n Amazon and then this. I know you can give only your experience now, so I am asking if you’d still recommend the material of Alice Walker. I’m only interested in whether the information can help me overcome my adult ptsd sort of issues. Thank you if you share 💗💎💗
Be safe. Be well ☮️
@@orchidsrising7910 Yes I absolutely recommend Alice Miller.
@@orchidsrising7910 It's good material. And it goes to show you how sometimes healing requires more than one generation. And also that someone as deeply wounded & yes flawed as Alice Miller still furthered humanity along the path of our collective evolution.
me too!!!!! well in my early 20s
Did either of them have a choice, to act differently.
Wow. I'm a 44 year old daughter of immigrant parents and I am trying to scrape my jaw of the floor. This simple interview just validated the part of me that has taken a stand against my own mother and rest of family that she turned against me, even though in this moment I find myself homeless, having left the violence of aging, but dangerous parents who while parasitically using me, declared publicly, my uselessness, even though I hold a masters degree and have many worthy accomplishments under my belt. My mother was trained as a teacher, and her first words to me when I greeted my waiting family with degree freshly conferred, "hmfp....I guess you finally beat me, you have one degree more than me." It was the first shock wave into my consciousness that all was not what I had understood about my life and relationship with my mother. I was truly stunned. It has taken me years to sort through it all. Thank you for this. It means more than I could simply convey in a comment. I have been struggling to write my story, and I too face this guilt to the point that I contemplated using a pseudonym because fame is not my aim, the truth and the story which I believe has imprisoned far too many adult children is needing to be exposed and brought to the front room of therapeutic conversation instead of hidden in the backrooms as the taboo of our work which might have the biggest impact on the emergence of a kinder, more gentle world if we could just be brave enough to come forward.
It is like how the fans of Joan Crawford and Bette Davis attacked their daughters for writing about their abuse. Abuse from mothers is such a taboo subject, and much more common and pernicious than is reported. It is only acceptable to talk about abuse by fathers. Hopefully more people will have the courage to bring this to light.
I am talking about it on my fanpages in English, Italian and Polish
facebook.com/Virtual-Campaign-to-Stop-Female-Violence-against-Men-and-Children-447702755303474/
facebook.com/Campagna-Virtuale-contro-Violenza-Feminile-su-Uomini-e-Minori-438245596255162/
facebook.com/Wirtualna-Kampania-przeciwko-przemocy-kobiet-wobec-mężczyzn-i-dzieci-915462111968388/?modal=admin_todo_tour
On my blog too here some text in English - statistics, but few people have the courage to help and sharing and media is not interested :( sabinagatti.blogspot.com/2013/07/prosta-i-logiczna-kalkulacja.html Feminist has to much money, it's big business :(
@@sabina7978-e4y stai facendo un lavoro bellissimo, che dio ti benedica. Lo sai che i delitti a sfondo sessuale su donne e bambini (che purtroppo avvvengono in maniera sistematica su scala mondiale, e dei quali ometto i dettagli, ma basta leggere le statistiche degli studi sulla condizione dei minori non accompagnati nel mondo) sono alimentati da un a perversione che gli uomini sviluppano come conseguenza degli abusi sessuali subiti dalla loro madre? Si tratta di madri bipolari in fase maniacale: nessuno sembra volersi occupare di queste atrocità, a nessuno sembrano interessare le radici di questa malattia mentale (che è una psicosi): cosa danneggia una donna fino al punto da farla abusare sessualmente dei figli? Eppure succede e sono fenomeni prevedibili che potrebbero essere monitorati, invece ci limitiamo a raccogliere i cocci quando le tragedie si sono già consumate. Le uniche tre istituzioni che si occupano di questo, o fanno solo teoria (gli istituti di ricerca), o sono concentrate sul togliere un figlio ai genitori, che già è fortunato ad averne (i servizi sociali) oppure arrivano troppo tardi (le forze dell'ordine).
@@alexacarenati Grazie! Thanks!
Her son seems to echo his mother's words and insights. Here is a son who discovers that his parents aren't perfect. His mother certainly acknowledges. I find her work really does show how she found that her own personal truth was incredibly painful. She became more aware of a parent's power and of her own weaknesses.
Thank you for writing this book Martin Miller!
You are helping me immensely in my own relationship with my deceased mother.
She wasn’t in the Holocaust but was severely traumatized by her life before she was adopted at age 6 and never knew how to be any different. I only know bits and pieces of what she went through and now at 58 years old I am in trauma psychotherapy learning how to help my inner child feel at peace one day.
I have been diagnosed with Complex PTSD by my psychiatrist and psychologist.
This book is very revealing as my mother did the same things to me.
Tragic and yet understandable as she never had therapy and thus never understood why she treated my brother and I so horribly.
Alice Miller was mostly an intellectual then. She didn't have the capacity to put her theories and knowledge into practice. How very sad for her and her son. What a thoughtful interview. You've given me some deep insights to ponder.
Not necessarily true. She could work with people to help them do it even if she could not go home after work and do it herself. Maybe.
Yes! Many individuals can know something intellectually and avoid the pain that accompanies dropping into the visceral emotions
A talker but not a doer. Seems like she had some wisdom, but no skill.
Miller came to her insights and started writing in her 60s. Long after she had raised her son. It seems like people consistently fail to take this into account -- she went through a healing period and learned a lot late in life.
Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.
I knew a world renown tennis coach who wasn’t a good player himself. There are examples in almost every field of experts who make great teachers but mediocre or lousy practitioners
I’m not surprised to learn that Alice Miller was an abusive, neglectful mother. Somehow I sensed this through her writing. Although her books are brilliant, landmark contributions to the field, I felt they revealed a cold, controlling, rigid woman. Given that I had a pathologically narcissistic, abusive mother myself, my radar is, unfortunately, quite keen.
I feel for her son and applaud him for telling the truth. His testimony helps those of us whose parents also presented a false image to the world.
As much as her books helped me, I sensed it, too, from experience. How many therapist peers close to the family did, too, but did nothing?
@@lulumoon6942
It’s appalling that she had so many enablers
Now, I have to admit, I did feel.something was off with this woman, even when I read her book in college. It makes sense now. I'm a Survivor and sensed something. I didn't become a massive fan, despite it being one of the best books of it's time. This is very validating for me. I thank him so much for sharing his story. I wish him all the best. Keep talking, it breaks the cycle.
Thank you very much for this interview! As a french person, I apologize for the shitstorm! :D
I've read all Alice Miller's books and I agree with you Daniel : her work is brilliant and a life changer. But this interview gives a great insight of how sometimes theory is far away from day to day life.
It's interesting to note that a lot of exemples that Alice Miller is using in her books come from litterature and history. On one hand, it's is so brilliant because it's so interesting to understand why Kafka or Hesse wrote this or that; or why Hitler became Hitler and why all Europe fell down in the trap of violence at this time. It helps to understand how child abuse can express itself through different ways in our society. But on the other hand, using those type of exemples has the effect of staying on an intellectual level, rather than on an emotional ou physical level (new research show how trauma can also affect deeply the body (see Bessel van der Kolk work for instance). Somehow, it was maybe a way to stay away from her own pain (the "split off" you're talking about in the interview).
Also very "funny" to see the parallel with Freud. Alice Miller tells in her books how she was cast out by many psychanalists because she was rightfully questionning Freud's theories. According to her (and I think she was totally right), by doing that, she was threatening the idealized image of "Daddy Freud". Now that Martin Miller speaks out, he's also cast out by many people who identified Alice Miller as an idealized mother. I think we're still in a circle of silence that needs to be broken down! Thank you Martin for doing so! I'll definitely buy your book! :)
I had a therapist who worked with Bessel VanDerKolk and when I showed up at session overflowing with validation from his writing, she informed me she'd stopped working with him because he wasn't a good guy.
I went and saw a famous author therapist whose books made me weep many times reading them. She reenacted with me for my whole three day intensive with her.
Freud, Jung and Rogers all behaved in messed up ways to their clients. I've concluded the brilliant theorists can never actually "bring it" to the therapy room a lot of the time. I mean I know they are human. But these people do some bad shit and then walk away thinking they're so great.
well said!
@@jennw6809 interesting hearing about your therapist stopped working with Bessel. I have had that feeling about him also. thank you for sharing your experience!
I read his book about 3 years ago in Polish. It was a shock for me. I read and cried. I needed a few days to get myself together. Thanks Daniel for this short interview.
@ all his story, he was abandon so many times even in adulthood she had not good relationship with him, he was alone all his life - I mean relationship with parents.
@@sabina7978-e4y I didn't read his book (yet). Despite what you said, did he find recovery and happiness? He seems happy and peaceful in this interview.
WOW. I feel a little heartbroken... Alice Millers books helped me so much, in saying that Im also thrilled that her son found the courage to speak out and can't wait to read his book. Much love Daniel. Love what you do.xxx
Anastasia Kalogiannis - BIG TIME!
It's a hard take away for sure. Alice spoke in the only language that began my healing journey, she reduced me to the grief or better she helped me to really grieve the losses. When I read about some of my other heroes like Woody Guthrie in how much of a serial idealizer I am of those who show courage for humanity. Hmm...
thanks for this daniel. i, too, have been deeply affected by alice miller's books. i can honestly say she changed my life. strangely, it's not surprising that she would do this to her own son. martin completes the story. it was too perfect to be real otherwise
me too
Fadi Hindash Yes, for me also Alice Miller is really the best author of psychologist themes…..and of course it´s logically that all the terrible stuff was given from her to her son. I can see such things every day and it happened to me also. My father wanted to be a good father (my mother can´t give me the answer, she died a long time ago), but it wasn´t really possible: Only wanting isn´t the key for making it really better. And also it happened to my child. My plan was to make all the things better which my parents did do wrong with me. But when you´re breathing in the bad atmosphere of your childhood every day then it´s inside you.....and you´ll give it to the next generation.
Freigeist 0101 p
@@beingnatural2517 ...thanks for sharing. But I find it sad and disheartening. If even Alice Miller wasn't able to solve this, though she thought about almost nothing else and tried very hard, how can we ever have hope to do things better?
Accept the fact we are going to hurt our own children badly??
I see these things every day, too, and it makes me feel sad and depressed.
@@beingnatural2517 What about her writing that, if one can -- thoroughly -- get in touch with the buried feelings of victimization, one will not pass it on? (She was talking about child molesters.) The recovery takes not only talk but "moving moisture (and chemicals)," meaning weeping and sounding...lengthily and until one relaxes, with yawns and a shift in feelings. I think a good listener is needed, too...a human (aside from God which, I think is also a fundamental need). The former is very hard to find.
When 2 honest and brave people come together to do an interview like this, it is always so valuable but so rare.
I've made great revelations in my own life, and much i owe to inspiration from what you have shared on this channel.
wow this is really tragic for that man, her son. i can only imagine the rage that he felt seeing his seemingly covert narcissist mother being praised worldwide, its very disheartening. i hope he has been able to find peace and a sense of justice after writing his truth.
corsican lulu i found my peace and i will justice. In this Time, it is very Importanz, that you find and say the tuth.
Hmm. So you assume she is a covert narcissist? Interestingly, I know a guy who writes very important things about all-pervasive child abuse in our society (like Daniel, he states that kids are nothing more than slaves/things for almost every "grown-up" person, esp. their parent) and about proper parenting, some of which seem nowhere to be found except for his works. And he's clearly a narcissist, only an overt one. He also does *not* give advices to his disciples regarding their children based on his work. What he often tells them more or less privately is to abuse their children or to abandon them once and for all.
@@differentways2279 Who's this? Can you name him?
@@differentways2279
Who is 'daniel'
Who addvocates for abuse? Are you some weird christian, or something?
@@differentways2279 Are you referring to Stefan Molyneux.
My father was at Normandy and I'm sure had PTSD from this and starvation during the Depression. His biological father committed murder suicide. His stepfather was so abusive, he was slyly killed by his own daughter and my father, the only witness, covered for her. He frequently told me he was proud of not being an abusive father like his own and it shocked me that he could convince himself of this lie. But in his mind, not terrorizing your kids with murderous violence was indeed good parenting. Now I forgive him nonetheless. I didn't endure those things and they broke him. But I cut him off and never saw him again, even on his death bed. I honestly feel if more of us just left these relationships, they'd start to fear it. Also, why does society strongly imply tolerating a violent parent is noble, but a battered woman should escape at all costs? No, I've met too many miserable people who should go no contact.
Miller did have a gift, but like my father, the illusion of knowing while understanding nothing. It's so sad that they can even consciously describe and analyze this behavior for decades yet remain so blind about themselves.
Mountain Mama Thank you for uploading your profound and insightful comments.
Wonderful comments. I also would have been better to leave my parents rather than try to work things out with them. They don't even know there is a problem. They just want to continue "parenting ".
End of first paragraph: Yes & yes!! ..I only get spoken to as if the situation of a violent bf or husband or such is completely implanted in the minds of (what should be, and is meant to be) the appropriate professionals, who should have.. I mean like at the very least, a bit of knowledge about domestic violence, mental health, criminal activity..idk, the laws & just yuh know, a basic understanding of the problems & people they're job it is to help.
And god forbid even entertaining the idea that a female abuser & male victim could possibly
@BL wow..my mom once said the same thing to me, "Im not a bad mother I never hit you" ...but she severely emotionally and medically neglected me and didnt protect me from my step dad or dad. When I told my therapist at 28 years old of my childhood, he said, "if you were under 18, I would be legally obligated to report what youre saying and you would be taken out of that house by child protective services immediately"
....yet my mom thinks she's a good mom because she never hit. Her mom was extremely violent to her so I can see why she rationalizes that but shes still lying to herself on some level about how good she was to me.
@@K-A5 What you say resonates with me. 👍🏾💜
My mother was a very abusive and violent woman when I was a child with me and my sister. But if you ask people they would tell you, she was sensitive, artistic, and intelligent.. If you try to tell people the truth, they don't believe me and they think I am a monster, thank god my sister is another victim of her and I can talk to her, this is why I believe you Martin, Take care
Fantastic interview. Thank you, Daniel and Martin. I relate so much to having a mother like this. It is so validating.
Very happy to see new content. Thank you, Daniel!
Alice Miller’s books have completely changed my life with my own therapy. I still think her ideas were valid but she unfortunately could not overcome her trauma. Thank you for sharing your experience with us Mr. Miller.
Thank you, Daniel! I really appreciated your efforts to let us hear Martin’s opinion on his mom’s abuse on same many levels. I almost cried when he said about justice. Finally he got it. And thank you for the tip to your articles - I’m gonna read the next books of AM, holding back your idea on how she should conclude her logic on childhood abuse. Thanks again!
I am not surprised and I did not "idealized" her nor thought of her as a moral reference :
I thought that what actually gave weight and meaning to her views is that she learned from experience the persecutor role that she denounced in her books and had been able to present it with clarity.
It was somehow obvious to me since I opened her first books. But I do think she made a good contribution because they managed to give me a sense of hope that I didn't have before, an intuition that there is a place where one could hope to express the depth of his/her soul outside of the "Vicious circle of contempt".
Well said. I am with you.
Antoine2208 💗 I was just considering reading Drama Of The Gifted Child as an adult to try to break some of the chains my past has over me. From what you wrote I felt like asking you if her material (in your experience) still stands as a powerful way to shake off the chains of the past, despite the true story, or in comparison to newer material out today.
Thank you if you respond 💗💎💗 Be safe and be well
@@orchidsrising7910 It is always helpful to make the connection between the difficulties that you had or still have in life with how your parent brought you up.
This is a taboo subject and the books of Alice Miller treat it in depth and in a concise manner, more on that at the end.
Regarding the author itself, the experience of Martin helps to see the author’s bias and limitation :
Yes, Alice Miller was a child abuser and a bully, and No she didn’t « recover » from her own childhood and war experience even though she pretend the contrary.
As a consequence, I sure as hell wouldn’t seek therapeutic advice from her and would also be very skeptical of her bleak views concerning the inevitability of the repetition compulsion and much of the field of psychiatry today.
On the other hand, I would consider her books worth reading, relevant today and relatively safe because it’s an easy access to an analytical and intellectual understanding of child abuse far above the large majority of what I had to read on that subject. **
And that understanding of what you went through is always the first necessary step that precedes recovering from it, which make this book a good and pertinent early recovery read.
** That’s what people with antisocial traits are usually good at. They understand what motivates others and are savy at predicting how experience shapes how people act and feel... What we call in psychology « cognitive empathy », which they use a substitute for the genuine emotional empathy that people without those traits naturally feel...
She probably didn´t heal her traumas, and not only war-trauma, but other; uppbringing traumas, too.
Martin Miller is not a traitor, but a truth whistle. This only confirms, the actual seriousness and how difficult it is to heal from childhood traumas.
That even a therapeut and a fighter such as Alice Miller was/(is), couldn´t really achieve to completely succseed .
We can just hope, in the future to realise the effective key-technique of uppbringing/childhood trauma healing...
The fact that Martin is able to talk about the abuse means he is one step ahead than the adults who ideolize their childhoods and parents. She did what she could with the tools she had and probably felt guilty of not managing to apply what her intellect could express so well. An abused child herself sadly....😢
Daniel thank you so much for this interview, I could not stop crying, really I have the tendency to put people on pedestals , all blessings for you guys
This is reality, honesty, love. No one gets out of childhood in one piece. Thank you.
That was a fascinating conversation between two courageous men. This is groundbreaking stuff. Thankyou Daniel
I had an intuition for this when I thought of the fact that she had discovered her most important ideas long after she had raised her own child.
But Martin Miller's addition of details is very interesting and shows that even a perverse temperament (which rejects on others the violence she has stored) can have correct intuitions - even if the person remains unable to put them into practice.
In a way, it is the most beautiful confirmation of his theory.
So thank you Alice Miller and thank you Martin Miller.
You have deconstructed and understood things by associating yourself, despite everything, as a two-generation job.
well said, it shows how difficult it is to break the chain and how strong is the "compulsion to repetition" (to use her own term)
wonderful. I love alice miller's book, she helped change my life. It's so brave of Martin, and it helps me face the hypocrisy of my 'wonderful' parents who were horrible narcissists, but much admired in the community.
Thanks so much Daniel. I’ve been quietly waiting for Martin’s book to be translated to English. Just finished it 5 mins ago.
As a longtime Alice Miller fan it was quite a thought provoking read.
Martin weaves beautifully between the objective and subjective. I’m so pleased he was able to tell his side of things and I particularly like his letter written to his mother at the end of the book.
The truth is a beautiful thing and I hope it has helped to set Martin Miller free.
Bless you both. x
I have the same feeling just like Martin. My mother who is also working in education system as a coach or we called Master, but in the real daily life, she always downgrades me, my existence is only to satisfy mother's image. She said she loves me, but it's only in her way. All the things I feel is pressure, I can't breathe and I really don't need her fake love. I only wish one day she can realize or understand my feeling as a child. I don't need fake image. All I need is her real understanding!
Heartbreakingly sad. I must have read all of Alice Miller's books and they made a huge impression on me. I always believed any child born to such a woman with such great depths of understanding and empathy for the child would have been incredibly fortunate. I was staggered to learn the truth and feel so sad for all Martin had to deal with in his childhood from both his parents. It was a very brave decision to write the book.
It is very sad to hear Martin Miller's account - but this is not the first time I have heard about the dark side of Alice Miller. I also have most of her books, and like Daniel Mackler, I found them very useful at one stage in my life. I remember in one book, she talks lovingly about her daughter who had Down's syndrome. She said not a word about her son.
I think he has done very well to come through her treatment of him (the blog I read a few years ago went into a bit more detail about it) and become a psychotherapist himself. Best wishes to him.
She was abuse by her husband and probably saw her son as a copy and hated him - I know somebody who has gone through this.
@@RK-ls6ce No matter, she was a wretch of a human to abuse her poor little boy
@@abigailh7715 very few would agree with you, her son didnt end up a murderer he is a functioning human being hopefully adding like his Mum to society.
@@abigailh7715 and yet later in her life she went through a healing period, reconnected with her feelings and processed a lot of her pain, and went on to save many lives through her work. Martin also says her work saved his life. People are not one-dimensional, either good or bad. They are traumatized and in their dissociation they pass on their trauma. That's what all of her work is about.
Martin - thank you! Your mother’s books helped me a lot and I will be forever grateful to her for publishing them. She was a monster to you, a child, and a
help to you, an adult, by the way of her own discoveries. So it seems to me... Would you ever consider speaking about the role of your dad in your childhood?
Daniel - you have been pursuing Alice Miller for years now. It must be deeply gratifying for you to have your interview with her son published on You Tube for the world to see. Now you can ultimately prove to yourself your discovery made years ago that Alice Miller was not a good mother to her son. As you always suspected... and kept asking her about through her website. Alice went through hell of being a Jewish girl in a deeply misogynistic family, religion, and a society. And then she had to live through monsters like her mother, her husband, Hitler, and a hellish post war German society in Switzerland. Who helped her?
She is a survivor through and through, as Martin accounted.
I welcome this question concerning Martin's father with open arms.
there is still much more to this story
This interview became eye opening with the questions of interviewer ....I really understand the motive behind these questions.....and also the authenticness of interviewee ..... grateful to both of you for giving this clarity
Very interesting, thanks for uploading. Shame it was so short, I guess I have to read the book to get more info.
Thank you for this interview
This is brilliant Daniel, as always. I love your content.
Thanks for interview
to me this is not just about a heroine having feet of clay but also about the inter-generational nature of war trauma and of the inter-generational trauma of the holocaust.
This. Important point.
Thank-you for this although I too was a staunch follower of Alice Miller. I would read a great amount of anger and guilt coming from what I was reading in her books. For me this was a bit scary as I am myself lucky to be here alive. My parents were well? Insane and I'm the eldest of six children. I'm not surprised at what Miller's son is saying though in fact he has my full support really It's very difficult to piece things together if your very very blinded from to much abuse. So we kind of have to leave it up to individuals to make their way through their own recordings from their pasts. My life was rough true. As the eldest I also became the scapegoat and the others used me as a tool if you will. I've escaped my cycle however and it hasn't been easy . Full of stumbles gross self doubt sometimes and sometimes even gross depression. I simply read and actually took literally some of the things Alice Miller was saying and they did help though.
For instance finding out which role you play in your family which I've found is true for us. This has been invaluable because of the fear and confusion in my life. I have given up though on being the mentor for younger siblings they are play their blind roles too and I have to leave them alone . Again though Thank-you for this I did suspect this however and so sorry your Mom went through what she did. And I am glad your better from her fear and darkness I am going to see if I can get Martins book *
Good on you for being so strong. I think Alice's son may, as he gets older, become more familiar with his mother's work, because, I don't know if he's conscious of it, but he speaks much of his mother's words ... Alice was very honest in her works always ready to admit her own weakness - I feel she was writing what she was discovering to be important for herself and, in turn, once Martin has moved on from his personal pain, my hope is he'll realise his mother would be proud of her articulate son facing his pain. He wrote this book because a publisher asked him to. It was his opportunity to write about his less than perfect parent. No-one expects a parent to be perfect. Alice's writing, I believe, helps us so much because she was learning - reflecting on childhood, reflecting on her conflict re her own mother, and as her own self as a mother and the pain she may have been inflicting or see the father inflicting and she unable to speak up because in those days men owned the child and it was her duty to obey..
All the best.
@@annebutt4507 But in this interview he clearly states some things that are contradictory to what you're saying. He was there so maybe we shouldn't discount or dismiss his experience.
@@annebutt4507 You're speaking of Martin Miller as if he were a child. LOOK at him. He has grey hair! He's a grown man! 70 years old now... born in 1950 (just Googled him) and an acclaimed psychotherapist. From his own words about his book, Martin has a great understanding of his mother and her need to create a fictional character of herself to show the public.
What an amazing amazing man. Such admiration for him not being bitter at all
Excellent interview, and VERY relevant for me. Thank you so much Daniel and Martin, and Alice for helping me in my lifetime odyssey to see the truth, accept the truth, and be able to speak of the truth about my own mother and the profound abuse that I experienced as a tiny child and throughout my life. Family secrets are family sepsis, and what you do not bring into the air for healing can kill you--especially covert abuse.
Thank you Martin Miller! My father was the same. A narcissistic monster in private; a talented musician and successful business man in public. my father is now dead. Maybe I should write a book as well.
Just bought Martin's book. Thank you Daniel for this excellently informative and mind blowing interview. What a fierce act of courage and honesty to tell your story, Martin. I'm so sorry you had to endure such a duplicitous narcissist for a biological 'mother'. The theft of your idea about trauma without giving you credit and then sabotaging your sanity with her sock puppet Stettbacher, sounds like classic narcissist conniving. It is astonishing that you managed to survive both a cruel Nazi 'father' and his inverted-narcissist enabler, you'r biological 'mother'. It's a painful paradox that it was your 'mother's' writing that helped you. I read Drama of the Gifted Child and that really helped me when I started my own recovery process. But her other books seemed increasingly less helpful and off. Every thing you said makes a lot of sense, I believe you, thank you for sharing your story, I wish you every success and well being.
Thanks for sharing this info 'Nicky'. I just ordered Martin's book myself. This is one reader in the US who will not attack him for telling the family secrets. Bravo Martin!
Every single book of hers helped me a ton. I would read many more if she had written more. I haven't watched this interview yet but I've been wondering if Martin is actually the narcissist. Guess I'll have to find out.
Her books were published in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988 & 1990. She was nearly 60 when she wrote her first book. I think she was very self aware, discovering her failure as a Mother and did her best to discover the why and how she failed. She acheived this and will help many parents heal and reduce traumas. Hopefully her son receives some royalties from her books and can see them as an indirect apology.
No ! That’s not true !
She continued the abuse even way after she published that book. Stop romanticizing the harsh reality ! Please ! Stop.
@@aliasagentsecret360Could you please provide more context on the matter?
Awesome interview Daniel many thanks I’ve just ordered the book
Ive just finished the book - wow what an account and gives a different context to Alice Miller, the mother. The book was even more pertinent for me, as a psychotherapist that has grappled with my own trans generational trauma from a father that survived Auschwitz. That said, it was nothing on the scale that Martin describes at the hand of his own mendacious Nazi sympathising father. Huge respect to you Martin for finding the courage to write this important testimony.
Daniel, if you read this I'd be interested on your views of Martin's about not "confronting" parents directly and working on the trauma in therapy?
Thank you Martin 🥰 I will buy your book, and thanks for sharing that your mothers's ideas are of use. You have a strong and important testimony. Wish you all the best! Roy, Norway
Thank you. I have bought Martin's book as a result of watching the interview. I have read and been inspired by a good number of Alice Miller's books. I had no idea she had behaved cruelly.
Wow, really interesting. Thank you both for this great video.
Thank you for this interview Daniel. Alice Miller's writings were profoundly important to us during the 1980s.
Thank you very much for this interview. I have been an extremely big fan of Alice Miller. Yesterday I ordered the book of Martin Miller. I can see again how the effect of extreme abuse and trauma- like the Holocaust impacts ones being and psyche.
Thank you for posting this interview. After reading Martin's revelations, I've struggled a bit with separating Alice Miller from her works. In the end, I've decided that it doesn't matter as long as her works help us to overcome our childhood traumas. We're all capable of great things and horrible things, and we sometimes do both at the same time. I think most of us hide the horrible things and promote the great things. I feel very sorry that Martin lost his childhood to this awful woman while I'm also grateful that she shared her writings with us. The difficult question, and the one no none can really answer, is - could we have had one without the other?
Good, great or even genius ideas do not indicate good mental health.
I have been ''in recovery'' for 30 years and am full of great ideas...but my life and behaviours remain largely unchanged. [I'd be a disaster as a mother.]
Thank you, Alice, for some great ideas; but thank you,Martin, for attempting emotional honesty.
I think an important lesson here for all of us is just how much so many of us have to heal, and how it probably makes most sense for most people at this point in time not to have children. There's just too much to heal first. We have centuries and millennia of generational and societal trauma to undo.
Now I would wish to see how the third generation is coping with all this.
About 15+ years ago, I remember sitting in a reading group that I had been in for years and telling the others that soon in the future, the value of authenticity will eclipse the value of brilliance such that if a speaker or leader who is saying brilliant things we agree with, is not living what they're saying, we will no longer listen and will reject their leadership.
They all were much older than me and thot I was just being judgmental and picky.
It happened alot faster than even I anticipated.
It's terrifying, tho, to think of how many horrors are prolly lurking behind the faces of the people we listen to. Bessell Van der Kolk was accused of some bs in the recent past. I haven't believed it. But maybe I should keep a space for the possibility. And one of my faves, Gabor Mate, who is somewhat transparent about his issues... is he still okay?
Are any of us okay if the story of our behavior is told by someone who doesn't understand us at all?
I know I've been the victim of some wacked out shit-talk by people. I'd like to think I could be real and stay clean about it. But what if their campaign was really slick and I was somehow torn to pieces by ignorant people who just really need a scapegoat to pin the whole tribe's sins on?
My story about my own Mother has changed over the decades and, while I still can't tell a story about her behavior that makes sense to me, I can no longer lie and say she's evil and wants to hurt me. There's some intangible and non-rational 3rd thing that fills the spaces between victim and perpetrator. I've rejected the "Narc" narrative because it's just too much black-and-white thinking and violates my own standards about empathy and perspective-taking.
Life sure is complicated.
GREAT INTERVIEW BRAVO DANIEL AND MARTIN FOR YOUR COURAGE
Great video
Wow! Fascinating!!! I wasn't even aware his book existed, and now I can't wait to read it! Thank you for sharing this story with us!!!
When you don't process it in you own therapy, you'll project the experience onto next generation. - Thanks!
I feel she did process it - it's obvious in all her works - I'm surprised her son can't see that. She knew her weaknesses. Her faults as a mother were very clear to her and that seems to help her process and understand the importance of getting in touch with her own past trauma.
anne butt still death she ignor to speak with me about her failers as mother. So she dont wont know something about her guilty against his sun
@@martinmiller1690 I will buy your book. I have been helped by your mother. I wonder if her theories are now invalid if she could not practice them? Danke, Rob
Robin i know the Theorien of my mother very well. I am as Psychotherapist very allone , because i am the only therapst, who koes the theorie well. I practise her t heorie and you
a lot is thoretical and can‘t practise. As therapist i have extended her theorie and have now a geat success. Best regards Martin
Oh my! I’m going to have to take some time to process this. I want to thank Martin for speaking out. I think it’s going to help me understand more.
Fascinating! And so relatable 😮
Martin has done it what his mother argued in her books: reveal the parents’ truth.
Thank you for spreading truth Much love
Great work Daniel and Martin....All of Alice Miller books helped me process my childhood, and this revelation was riveting, can't wait to read Martin's book.
Wow. Two brave people. Bless you both. ✌🏽💚
Je ne sais pas ce qui s'est passé dans la relation entre Alice Miller et son fils et je sais combien il est difficile de changer et de devenir authentique. Cela prend beaucoup de temps aux deux personnes après une relation parentale traumatisante ... mais personnellement, les livres d'Alice Miller m'ont sauvé la vie et je la remercie beaucoup. Et JAMAIS dans ses livres que j'ai lus et relus ... Je ne la ressentais pas comme une mère idéale mais comme une personne à la recherche de la vérité. Je lui ai écrit deux fois et elle m'a dit qu'il était très difficile de supporter la culpabilité d'une mère ... Je suis d'accord avec ça. La difficulté de son travail est qu'elle théorise et que cela change le point de vue. Cela peut donner l'impression qu'elle a toujours été un bon parent, mais elle n'a jamais dit cela. Elle a commencé à changer ses créations à 60 ans et à 80 ans, elle a encore changé après ..... Bref, c'est ' Il est intéressant que le point de vue de Martin Miller soit également directement concerné. J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 J'ai également lu son livre et je comprends son point de vue si différent de celui de sa mère, parlant de leur relation, pas du tout le but d'Alice dans ses livres. De plus, il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET MÊME QUE AM, 1 il est né 30 ans avant de commencer à écrire des livres et a progressivement pris conscience de ses erreurs et de son conditionnement. On peut même voir la progression de certaines idées dans ses livres. Personnellement, j'ai commencé à réaliser que j'étais une mauvaise mère à 60 ans ... J'ai 70 ans. Il est presque certain que mes enfants ne seront pas réparés avant ma mort et que nos relations ne seront jamais rétablies ... C'est une douleur pour eux ... et pour moi AUJOURD'HUI ... ET de la même façon qu'Alice Miller, j'ai compris que j'avais été une mauvaise mère et cherche à me guérir, mais la relation avec mes enfants je ne peux la changer et elle dépend maintenant aussi de leurs propres réparations et volontés. C'est juste une tragédie et c'est dur à vivre. J'ai transmis mes conditionnements mortifères et ne peut que ME réparer.
Pascale Fourlinnie still to her death she Never change her desructive attitude against me. The wartrauma she never chaned. She Identity always with my father, a real NAZI. In her perseption i got. the Nazi like my father.
@@martinmiller7833 Sorry for you, I read beautiful letters that she adressed to you at the end of her life and I though she changed. Perhaps not. I know how it's difficult to change when your traumas are so important. But I can listen to your perception and I thank you so much to answer to me. Wish you the best. With all my heart.
@@martinmiller7833hola martin saludos de españa, nose si me leas.. perdonaste a tu madre? No te queria ?
here i am again.needed to refresh my memory ....
in her defence, Martin was born 30 years before she wrote her books and in that time no doubt she learn't a lot from her own mistakes as a parent.
Amazing interview
I love that you have spoken a little of your story Martin. I don't know your mother's work well enough to know if she portrayed her own parenting as perfect, sad if she did. What she has given to me, through her works, is a very clear template for the effects of violence on children's by their parents. It's hard to be a therapist's kid I guess. I love that you have given us a wee glimpse of your experience and of Alice's history that shaped her into the person she was. Thank you Martin. No one is a traitor for using their voice to speak their truth. Much appreciation for this. :)
Thank you so much for this interview
Coming from a Re-evaluation Counseling/primaling background and appreciating the healing power of emotional processing, I did always think that Alice Miller had not had the opportunity to weep deeply, with an understanding person, as much as she needed to. (If one has read any of Aletha Solter's books, particularly "Aware Baby," one is familiar with the astounding relief and transformation that, particularly, infants and children experience when allowed to discharge their feelings to the finish with an understanding and supportive adult.) Alice Miller wrote how Arthur Janov's account of his momentous experience with a veteran's deep release of emotion about a war wound -- a resounding scream -- had caused her a great increase in understanding, but, aside from her appreciation of truthfulness in the healing process, I do not think that she followed up on its necessary connection to physical release of related emotions, and, without that, one's realizations remain, unfortunately, "cerebral," at best.
Wonderful interview, well done by both of you and makes me strongly want to read this book since I've read many of Alice Miller's writings.
I very much enjoyed the video; thank you.
Autoplay popped on "The Drama..." on audio. I read the book many years back, but this time listened to the quite telling preface, written in 1990,in which she describes her journey, via her own therapy from 1973-1988. How she's come to see errors in her earlier years, and contemplated re-writing sections in her three previously published books. She says, in the preface, that she wants the reader to see her changed/altered positions, which have come out of her exploration of her own childhood, via therapy, but she squirms away, which she explains, from the term "Psychoanalysis ". Her son, if he's been a psychotherapist for 40 years, has to be, at the minimum, early 60's in age let's say 63, making him then born in 1955-1957. Alice hadn't touched her childhood, as noted above until 1973, and through 1988. He was parented by a parent with unresolved trauma. Supportive, I think, if your videos about addressing your own traumas, and whether a person should parent before healing their own traumas first. When I first watched this video, when published, and then read some of the thoughts and information about this, I was literally distraught! Like you, I felt that she was so on-point...and she parented how??? Humanity....quite the predicament. I too know much that has not been integrated. Not "Alice Miller-know", but Osho's books are choc-ful-a wisdom, knowledge, and technique. I don't know if he defiled his followers, or the Oregon fiasco...if it resonates, it's valuable knowledge, even wisdom; yet, until embodied, it's, as he said, a projection; books and preaching to eventually hear oneself?!
Thanks so much for this video!!!
This was great Daniel. I wish it was longer. Would you do a follow up please?
Just read your book. Well done.
Alice's books were brilliant but, 25 years ago, I realized that she would be no help therapeutically. In desperation, and on her recommendation, I bought Stettbacher's book. COMPLETE AND UTTER DRIVEL.
I realized then that she was still very damaged, un-healed.
Further, that genius ideas do NOT indicate health.
Again, well done.
interesting, did you read all of her books? The were they only thing -- well, one of the most important things -- that I feel saved my life. Perhaps she is the greatest help to the most abused children.
The truth shall set you free
Thank you Martin!!! Going to get a copy of your book. Just eye opening!
It's humbling to understand how the figures we idolize may also have their dark side. Anyone who has had received both traumatic abuse, and love from a parent (esp. a mother) can relate to Martin's story. We try to 'make peace' in some sense with our parents. (Though we were so messed up by them.) Sometimes it takes long after their death to do so. We must also honor the hurt child within, and heal it, to become fully mature, and emotionally aware. The key is to stop the cycle of abuse if we have children. To teach them to honor their feelings and experience, and value them as the gifts they are. Never lashing out at them thoughtlessly as we may have been. This is how the world may become a better place.
Her eyes speak volumes in Martin's book cover, there's a bittersweet tale of unlimited sorrow backing unwavering resilience.
Yes we understand your answers fully.
this is wonderful
Dr. Arthur Janov told us that Alice Miller came to visit with him and his wife France one time and over dinner he explained to her the practice of Primal Therapy which he is the founder of it started in the early sixties. Alice Miller used all of that information and implemented it into her own therapy approach with clients. Art criticized that and thought it was plagiarism and also dangerous because people might run off with bits and pieces of information and might implement them in the wrong way causing more problems in clients. I have to agree with him that particularly in Primal Therapy if we want to implement this type of sensitive and volatile form of therapy we have to stay in permanent touch with the founder and other people and talk about our experiences with our own therapy unfolding as well as with our clients and friends in order to have as much exposure to information about this as possible at all times. After Art Janov retired and his wife France took over the management and classes we did not get the help we needed and some people died. That is why I am proposing a world wide team work with as much sharing of information and asking questions as we possibly can to avoid making drastic mistakes. We need therapy help centers in each community that should be based on non profit.
I can’t wait to hear this. I love Daniel so I will have to read this. I love ❤️ this. Love u Daniel So much.
Good stuff. Enjoying your channel .
Makes you question everything... even his last statement "But I practice it and she didn't". How would you know then?
In Alice Miller's Books she told she needed more then 40 years to finally find someone (a therapist) who helped her FINALLY see through her stuff and get free of it. Sooo maybe she knew about the mistakes she made with her own son? To take that final freedom she claimed she had experienced in her late years away from her doesn't seem fair to me.
Well - who are we to judge?! We don't know. And who knows if the son experiences more of the personal freedom we all seek to have?
I find this a bit...disheartening. I'm not saying he shouldn't tell his truth; he should. But then how should we hope to be able to do any better for ourselves and our children?
If your adult children genuinely and joyfully want to spend time with you, I think that's a good indicator andd confirmation that you were a good parent.
Wow! Thank you! Mind blowing!
No wayyyyy ! :) I just read the english version of his book! so glad to see this.
OMG Im so excited!!!!!!! I was going to suggest that you interview Alices son! Cant wait to watch this!!!!!
oh wow what an awesome pairing
Thanks for this .I can relate and often commit the same offences
We have a saying in my language, a tailor cannot mend her own stitches. Alice Miller is an absolute example of that. I feel sorry for Martin but at the same time I feel relieved that he doesn't feel sorry for himself.
I feel very positive about Martin Miller, and I also want to say that I don't think Alice Miller ever wrote that she was a good mother. In addition, I recall her writing something like: a mother's rational understanding of the repetition-compulsion will not be enough to prevent her passing on abuse and using her children emotionally.
If you write books that give advice on being a good parent it would be naturally assumed that the author was practicing what she preached.
@@waynemizer4912 I believe it was in her very first book that she wrote how frustrated fellow therapists would become with her that she didn't condemn parents. (And she very much objected to advice giving!) She only wanted to describe how the installation of destructive behaviors comes about: being mishandled when people are "dependent, and malleable," as she said, with no one near who understands and accepts the visceral reactions of the small victim.
I have never seen so many comments following a TH-cam . That may say something about how often people identify with being wounded by a wounded mother The existence of So MANY comments here also assuredly express gratitude to Martin, as I express also, for his courage in discussing this often taboo topic. I also struggled both w/a family "No Talk Law" & with what I later saw as a misinterpretation of what it meant to "honor a parent " (think Ten Commandments).
My mother was a child of a father who had been the teen-age victim of a pogrom in Minsk, Russia. Our otherwise tranquil Long Island home became the platform for my mother's til death (inexplicable) rage & fury. In a graduate course I took, one teacher said: "Don't worry about what someone can't say: eventually they will act it out..." My mother herself in this sense sadly could never find her true voice. She always took pride in the SILENCE she defined as loyalty to her father. I was close to derailed by the time I became a young adult & my salvation literally was Salvation.
Philosophy & Psychology could only have achieved so much in my life. In a bible study commentary this year I came across the idea that when Jesus said "One of you will betray me" at the Last Supper, Judas looked so normal that all the other disciples sincerely asked; "Lord, is it me?" NONE of them looked up & thought; "Of course it is Judas." Judas looked so normal that no one suspected a thing. In part my healing has been effected by my identity in Christ. The Son was told: "This is my son in whom I am well pleased." My identity is in His son in whom He is well pleased. So this Parent's pleasure in me is not earned by me and cannot be taken away from me. (Undoubtedly someone reading this will want to send me an acerbic, judgemental, rejecting comment. That person might be better served by reading The 7 Things that God hates" (Proverbs 6:16). After all --the 7 things that God hates is exactly how we all got here......
Thanks for sheddint light on her real life. I would read this book as fast as I can get my hands on it.
Watched it again and it rang a bell inside of me about my own mother. Being seen as a paragon of virtue by surrounding and and also part of my family. She showed support for people and family, but she deeply abandoned, rejected and betrayed me when it comes to my father and brother abuse. And also caused me pain herself by physical punishments, name calling and neglect. Thanks Martin and Daniel.
Such a profound truth about the limits of ideas. Humans hardly behave according to they're own ideas. No one is really fully conscious of themselves. It's only ever an effort
Alice Miller’’s books are like oxygen for many of us as they bring recognition, validation-confirmation for those who have experienced the endless pain of childhood trauma. Beyond her personal story, her work makes sense and helps tremendously. Even though it’s terrible what she did in her personal life. This does not discredit her work. It only sheds more light over the complexity of human nature.
Heal me from trauma pain ❤ Love her ❤
Alice Miller’s Drama of The Gifted Child does NOT reflect the story of a perfect mother. She provided answers for those of us who suffered due to the neglect inflicted by a narcissistic parent. I am reminded of singer, Jewel’s interview on Navigating Narcissism with Dr. Ramani in which Jewel so aptly stated, something to the effect that, hurt people hurt people…AND it is, at the same time, not ok to hurt me.
What I received from Alice Miller’s book was not a portrait of a perfect, I.e., healed mother. That, to me was not the point. Instead, I was offered-and chose to receive-an explanation of ME. Of how and why I came to be. And, most importantly, reassurance that I am not “bad”….a belief that I have struggled with for as long as I can remember. Additionally, I feel it necessary to reveal that I too am a mother now, and that my children have suffered as a result of the hurts I endured as a child. Alice Miller has provided me with a framework for apology to my, now adult children, an most importantly an opportunity to give that/those apologie(s) while I am still above ground.
France is sick of psychoanlysis. Alice Miller was, a time, psychoanalyst, and they use her as one of the most famous figure for their theories. So if you touch the image of one of them, they will respond, anger, violence, they are known for it. Psychoanlysis is a gangrene in psychology, especially in France. I am very sorry you had to endure a shitstorm from them.
Thank you for speaking your truth, and explaining your mother to us, in a different way she was trying to portray herself. This does not diminish your mother's theories. It enlighten us about the complexity of human minds, what we think, what we know, what we actually do, can be very different things. Thank you. Hope you are well !