Founding of Arnor & Gondor, End of the Second Age - Timeline of Arda #12
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2021
- The realms of Gondor and Arnor were founded soon after the downfall of Númenor in Middle-earth, and the kingdoms joined with the other Free Peoples to stand against Sauron during the War of the Last Alliance. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts about this episode of the Timeline of Arda in the comments below. As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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Timeline of Arda:
• Timeline of Arda
The History of Annúminas - Region Spotlight:
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The Palantíri - Artifacts of Arda:
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The Oathbreakers of Middle-earth:
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Matthew Stewart
To think that the Numenoreans built all these cities and wonders in less than a hundred years. This always blows my mind.
Exactly, I can't wrap my mind about it as well. Minas Ithil, Minas Arnor, first parts of Osgiliath, Orthanc and the fortress of Helm's Deep. I always wonder how many people were supposed to live already in Gondor when founded. A lot probably.
Yeah that is incredible
To me it is abit immersion breaking. We dont know how many already lived in middle earth and not many could have survived on the few ships that escaped numenor. For this reason it also makes no sense to split up and found 2 kingdoms instead of 1. How many people did actually live in those kingdoms? There is no need to build multiple cities and have 2 kingdoms unless there are hundred thousands or even millions of people living there. But i never get the impression that middle earth was ever densily populated at any time.
@@origami83 I though that Numenoreans already had colonies on ME.
@@matejkopa97 That is true but it remains unclear to what extend. We know hardly of any great cities build in middle earth until after arnor and gondor were founded, only pelargir but i am unsure.
So whatever numenorian population lived in middle earth cannot have been much, some villages and hamlets scattered along the coastline.
To me, Gondor always felt a bit like the Byzantium to Númenor's Rome.
That’s a keen observation! Peter Jackson’s crew actually based much of minas tirith on byzantine architecture. The gondorian guards with their dark curly hair and helmets resembles greek aesthetics. Also, Minas Tirith is very close sounding to Monastiri, which are greek/byzantine monasteries often built high up in the mountains and actually hewn into the mountainside, much like Minas tirith. (This might of course be a total coincidence, but i do believe there are much greek influences when it comes to the men of gondor and numenor. Numenor being similar to atlantis for example.
BRILLIANT observation.
I agree
Well said. Minas Tirith also acted as Constantinople, in that it protected Europe/Middle Earth from eastern invasion for centuries.
In a way Annúminas, as the western/northern capital, was Rome too, as the senior capital to Osgiliath as Constantinopolis, leaving Minas Anor and Ithil as Thessaloniki and Nikaia, and Pelargir as Athens. As such Fornost would be alike to Ravenna, Vinyalonde the new haven matching nicely with Neapolis. Númenor feels both like the Rome of old and Atlantis.
There are a bunch of obvious similarities between Númenor and Atlantis, and in one of Professor Tolkien's recorded interviews, he even describes himself as having an "Atlantis complex". However, in the writings of Plato, Atlantis is not a founder or precursor of Greek civilisation, but rather an ancient enemy bent on global conquest. It was their failure to conquer the Greek republic which caused Atlantis to lose favour with the Gods and be condemned beneath the waves. I guess this is paralleled in Ar-Pharazôn's attempted conquest of Valinor.
Arnor: exists
Witch king: I'm about to end this man's whole career
And I did
@@theWitch-KingofAngmar be quite you foul beast of mordor!
oh dear
@@theWitch-KingofAngmar hahaha I love your channel
“It’s free real estate”
Last time I was this early, the Barrow-Wights were still alive
This doesn't make sense as the Barrow Wights were the resting place of the Cardolan Dunedain
Hah
@@goodputin4324 The Barrows were the resting place. The Wights are those buried (but not resting) in the Barrows.
A wight meant originally a person, but the word came to mean a preternatural being instead.
@@thedreadtyger yeah I know that's my point before the Barrow Downs were there it was Cardolan
The Story of Elendil has always fascinated me, from the sailing of his farther Amandil ever west, to the founding of his Kingdoms and the life age of 322, all in which he saw the Arkalabeth and the settling of Arnor. The acceptance of Arnor by the elves and the already established kingdoms in Middle earth. Just imagine that, 200 years in Numenore and then its just gone and another 120 years as ruler of Arnor, its a fascinating paradigm. Silmarien's descent of the line of Andunie and Tar-Elendil.
Your entire kingdom is about to be crushed by waves and dissapear under the ocean. You have to scramble your people on a few ships with no moment to lose. Only limited space and time available to gather and bring supplies for your survival. Then someone points out this enormous useless black stone, 'what about the stone of erech?' Everyone, 'oh yes, we definitly need to bring this heavy, cumbersome stone, for reasons.'
Thank you for acknowledging Sauron left his ring in Barad-Dur when he left for Numenor.
Too bad Tolkien disagrees :)
@@meduseldtales3383 sauce?
"Who will you look to when we are gone?..."
"It is in Men we must place our hope"
Find it interesting that history is yet repeating itself in a way
Another race traveling to middle earth, another dark lord rising to power, and many more tragedies and victories to come.
Tho Men are considered weaker in respect to elves they are proud and strong. Hopefully they took better care of the fourth age than the elves did in the first two.
Always arise and stand men of the west 🤘🏻
Idk, how do you think we are doing? Lol
@@kreuzrittergottes9336 haha that’s a debate/discussion that would last ten ages 😂
Let’s just say we’re doing ok...room for improvement 😏
Yoystan always making my sunday better.
It's just that he sucks with the Elvish pronounciation
Hey everyone, I am currently making a video on Elendil and noticed an error that I have made here and in other videos that I would like to amend! Elendil's father Amandil was the last lord of Andúnië in Númenor, not Elendil himself. Also, the borders of Arnor included and were not limited to the Hoarwell river! Sorry about the mistakes, thanks!
Hi, i m a huge fan of your channel and i have some ideas for future videos.
1.What if Aragorn accidentally killed Elrond when he unsheathed the Anduril in Dunharrow ?
2.Will Farmer Maggot enter the Timeless Halls of Eru after his death?
3. What if Gollum wasn’t a clever waterman?
4. What if Will Witfoot took the ring?
5. What if Sauron accidentally fell into Samanth Naur while forging the One ring?
1. Elrond was never in Dunharrow. He gave Anduril to Aragorn in Rivendell, because he knew that Aragorn was setting off for a quest that would decide the fate of Middle-earth and he would need all the help he could get.
2. Hobbits are a subspecies of Men so they would have similar fates.
3. He would stay on dry land?
4. In place of a Dark Lord, you would have MAYOR!
5. His last words would be "D'oh!"
Great synopsis, I like the addition of Vinyalondë mentioned as one of the cities absorbed as part of a newly christened Anor. @Men of the West I know elvish can be tricky, especially with the hill, Eilenaer...more often than not you will see dipthongs in use like in this case, both EI and AE make the "eye" sound. So it would be pronounced as "eye-len-eye-r"...roll the R for fun. ;)
Awesome summary Yoyst...as always.
I believe Tolkien's entire point to this part of the story was solely to bring Elendil and Isildur to this moment of faith and have Narsil break and have it take the finger.
It is the dark part of the arc...literally...the light going out.
The broken/failing light is still enough to defeat the darkness.
As a bladesmith I have long loved the details Tolkien added about the blades in these stories. It might be why I pursued bladesmithing. "No other blade...but glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it..." Yeah...that.
It's why I wish they had done a better job making Anduril...it could have been done so many ways and the two cut scenes were shallow for those of us in the trade.
I mean it was a BIG DAMN DEAL when they turned the light back on...right?
A most interesting chronicle of, arguable, the greatest uniting force against Sauron and the forces of the shadow. Without Gondor the Dark Lord may very well have succeeded and all would have been laid to waste and left in darkness, a horror they bought at the cost of their own pain, blood and deaths. Yet never giving into despair for it is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
Got here early but didn’t comment til I watched it all cause I’m a good noodle
Arnor=Royal Realm. Gondor=Stone Realm. Smeagol calls Gondor the land of the Stone Kings. The Druedain of Gondor thought the Gondorians ate stone for food.
He was thinking of the gorons
@@Ross-ch9vv lol yup must be!
Your ability to boil down at least 40+ hrs of books with audio book speed into 2.5 hrs is just amazing. With facts I've missed or metaphors ext..
How perfect, the timing of this event to the Day, ANZAC day one of the days to remember that people sacrificed their lives for people!
As of last night, my oldest brother (my older brother has already read) is going and trying to read The Silmarillion, it took me some time for me, but I am glad he is now doing it!!!
Thanks for the end of the 2nd Age Mellon, Until ROTK What's Different...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Thanks for the kind words, as always Marion! Hope your brother likes it!
@@MenoftheWest Thanks Mellon, I hope so too!!!
Peace and Freedom are never free. That is true.
@Eternal Cowboy Yes I know.
Piece? Free-dome?
Always loved to see a new Men of the West video, Yoystan you are, as always, legend of Middleearth!!!!
I look forward to these videos every Sunday
I just wanted to say your videos and several others of your type of quality and here have helped me through the rather rough period in my life. Just give me something else to concentrate on and occupy my mind. I just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work.
Thanks for watching, I appreciate the support my friend! I’m glad you made it through the rough patch buddy.
Im not sure if you did a video on it already, but I feel like it'll be a really fun video to talk about AElfwine from the Book of Lost Tales. That book was extremely interesting as it shows a link between Middle Eartg and the Earth we know. Maybe Middle Earth existed but it was sunk into the seas of America and perhaps the islands off Canada was the tips of the Misty Mountains? Just some interesting theories. Keep up the great content either way though!
Interesting that the son of Eomer was named AElfwine as well.
Æ?
@@wildfire9280 sorry i didnt know how to type that on the keyboard but yeah my bad
I was just thinking we need more Timeline of Arda videos. 😂❤️ Happy Sunday friends.
I always wonder why people can't believe Sauron's spirit would carry the Ring. The Ainur shaped the World without needing bodies, I'm sure they have telekinetic abilities necessary to move a small object (whose power is connected to them, even).
Amazon has to set up movie theater premieres of the episodes that tell this tale.
You don't say? (sarcasm)
FYI, Tolkien confirmed in a letter that Sauron had his ring with him in Numenor.
"And He took Up His Great Ring on His Return to the Barad Dur.But His Rage was Not Less.For His Fair Form was lost and Never Again Could He apear Fair to Men.For His Form became Black and Hideous.So that He Ruled thru Terror Alone.For the Eye of Sauron Few could Endure.
Oooooh more Gondor lore. this is gonna be fun! Thank you Mr. West 😎👍🏼
Nice, another vid from our boi Yoystan!
The blood of men grows thin in the feared up and coming adaptation .
"by the blood of their people" hehe boromir reference spotted 😁
I love hearing about the 2nd Age; it's a fascinating time when the elves were still strong in Middle-Earth but humans were ascendant. There are some parallels between the folly of humans that led to Numenor's destruction and the folly of the Noldor that led to their catastrophic losses before the War of Wrath.
A very great video as always Men of the West.
The founding of the two kingdoms of the Dunedain was an interesting time in the history of middle earth, this is a good video man!
A lot of great art in this video. Many and varied. Much thanks to the creators.
Can you do nothing wrong, on this channel Yoistan? I wish I could make videos, half as good as these lol. You, InDeepGreek are rapidly becoming favourites of mine.
Can I ask, if you'd ever consider doing videos for Conan or Dragonlance? Those universes are wondrous also, not as much as Tolkien, but it'd be interesting to get your view on them, or a youtuber of your calibre interested in them. Sorry for the presumptuous message, just a BIG FAN.
Wonderful. I have been searching for this piece of information for a long time. Now I got it. Thanks.
@11:55 this is where I draw issue with the Shadow of War game (not to mention Helm as well) I hate how these revisionists turned Isildur into a wraith. Last I checked they had to be alive and slowly consumed by a ring. Not dead and then brought back. Clearly Isildur was dead and his spirit passed on. I've not read that using a ring of power once locks a soul to Arda which would have to happen.
Absolutely right: about the only way for Isildur's soul to remain would be as a ghost, that is if he refused to move on out of greed, fear, resentment or whatever, not by the power of the Ring for he only wore it on the road north. It is just the game devs coming up with "dark edgy stuff" for their game. I mean Celebrimbor himself should be no wraith, at most he could be "stuck" in Eregion if he refused Mandos' call, and thus too broken and weak to help anyone.
LOTRO did something similar though more tastefully.Isildur remained as a Shade near the Gladden Fields because of his shame with the ring and the disaster that led to his death.but eventually he is freed.
Great video I recently got into Tolkien’s works but they are now my favorite books and media out there. Thank you for all the great videos I love listening to all this lore
I have always found this part of the lore to be very engaging and among my favorite stories.
Well done, as usual!
I wonder what if? What if the kingdoms were switched? Gondor north with the white tree and Arnor in the south vs Mordor. How would Middle Earth change?
Result would be the same. Geography.
Dam that’s a really good question me as a Gondor / arnor fanboy can’t even come close to answering that question I myself would need mutiple debates and research on how this would effect middle earth.
Btw this question needs some more details like what about the numenorean colonies like pelargir etc erc
@@Mr.im1 I was thinking the same. It's possible Arnor survives the war with the Witchking and Minas Ithil should survive a siege.
@@Mr.im1 oooo, and Osgiliath maybe survived and Saruman could have been discovered earlier. Just speculation.
Helping me through the major processes rn. Love you and the channel!
That thumbnail is absolutely amazing
Simply wonderful
Once again a great video keep up the good work!!
I love this series! Great video Yoystan! The 1st and 2nd age were always the most interesting times.
Thanks I was looking forward to this
Nice work dude thanks
Ty for another amazing video 🥰😊
Great stuff!
Letss goooooo, men of the west uploadddddddd!!!
I just spent 20 minutes confused as I had Elendil and Earendil mixed up 🤦♂️
Same with Earwen mother of Finrod and Galadriel, and Arwen, Aragorn’s wife. XD
Last Alliance: preparing for war for 3 years.
Anarion, Somehow holding off the entire host of sauron in a stalemate at Osgiliath: HERE COMES THE SUN!
Anarion had a couple of squadrons of A-10s. Little known fact.
LOL Anarion might've lose three sons, but his 5 year defence of Gondor was Brilliant!
Anárion, underappreciated badass of the War of the Last Alliance.
If you look at the battles Sauron fought in the Second Age, he was really, I mean REALLY bad at crossing rivers... he had his arse handed to him at the borders of Lindon and then Tharbad despite having no trouble razing Ost-in-Edhil to the ground, why? well it seems he could not find a way to breach an enemy's line if placed behind a river (the Lune and the Gwathlo). Centuries later when Anarion had to stall him while his allies prepared for war, all he had to do was to hold onto the Anduin for dear life, and so he did... Sauron once again could no come up with any remotely useful strategy to cross the river lol It was only by the end of the Third Age that his forces mastered the art of taking a river crossing, or maybe the fact that they were led by the Nazgul and not Sauron himself meant the orcs at last had a commander who did not panic in the face of flowing water ahahaha
@@AugustusR I feel as thought Sauron's forces were also frightened by the Numenoreans of Gondor too, because the last time sauron fought numenoreans they both ended poorly. Those Numenorean Steel bows and warships are scary to fight against.
Yes. I’m early again
Fantastic video as always. I do have a question, though! Where does the LOTRO footage starting at the 10:04 mark come from? I don't recall any quests showing Isildur taking the Ring from Sauron's body. Just curious!
This was really interesting
Great!
This video is no founding of gondor and arnor. It is the founding of men of the west's channel!
🤩
@@MenoftheWest Thank you for making such great videos!😁
How about what if Elrond took the Ring?
@Men of the West , you should do another theory video on the subject of "What if Isildur Survived?". I think it would be quite interesting considering; A, Isildur would have the One Ring. B, His decendants would have held it as an heirloom. C, the alternate outcome of the Angmar Wars.
Isildur was going to consult with Elrond about what should be done with the ring, when he was killed during the Disaster of the Gladden Fields.
If he had survived, he would have reached Imladris and received the counsel of Elrond to destroy the ring. He actually wasn’t corrupted by the One Ring as the movies wrongfully showed.
The video is back!
I love the Tower of Elostirion ❤️
Is it possible that as High king of the Elves Gilgalad had jurisdiction over the elves even if men had established a kingdom and were using much of the land?
I read somewhere, either the appendixes or the Silmarillion that Sauron left the Ring in Mordor when he surrendered to Ar-Pharazôn.
Nope, in Letter 211 Tolkien states quite clearly that Sauron "naturally had the One Ring" when he was in Numenor.
@@meduseldtales3383 Nope, Tolkien often contradicted himself. He may have written both.
@@ShawnHCorey The quote you think is probably "There now he brooded in the dark, until he had wrought for himself a new shape; and it was terrible, for his fair semblance had departed for ever when he was cast into the abyss at the drowning of Númenor. He took up again the great Ring and clothed himself in power". However, it probably just means that Sauron, with new physical form, *physically* took up the One Ring again. But we don't have to guess, because in the letter 211 Tolkien spells out clearly and directly what his final word on the matter is.
@@ShawnHCorey Further clarification: there actually is no contradiction, because according to Oxford Dictionary "take up" can also mean "With special obj., implying a purpose of using in some way". So "took up again" would mean that Sauron begun *to use the Ring again* to dominate the wills and minds of others. As told, this led to Mount Doom becoming active again and his enemies becoming aware of his return.
Can you put this on Spotify as an podcast!
I always wonder what would have happened if the Valar had left the Elves in Middle Earth....and a similar what-if applies to the Edain in the 2nd Age.
Have you given any more thought to the "Less then Epic Character Histories" idea?
Like Bill Ferny?or Grima?
@@boejidenthepotato8930 Sort of, just since you have lots of very minor characters in the lore that still play a part I suggested a while ago that Yosten do a video series where the very minor character histories are all not enough for a video each, so like a "Less than Epic Character History of The Children of Hurin". Characters like Sador, Nellas and Androg etc.
How would things go for Gondor and Arnor during the War of the Last Alliance and the Third Age, if there were more of the Faithful Numenoreans that escaped the destruction of Numenor, and they also brought Numenor's knowledge and technology with them to Middle Earth?
I wonder which elven weapon was more powerful: Aeglos, the glaive of Gil Galad or the sword Ringil???
That title gave me a mini stroke
Did Elendil and his sons k ow they were making to different kingdoms?
From a young age I never understood how these large kingdoms & cities in both Arnor & Gondor could be created from a handfull of ships escaping from Numenor. Any ideas?
Numenor established colonies in Middle-Earth relatively early in the 2nd Age. Those colonies had lots of time to grow.
Those ships were huge, each able to carry hundreds of people, there were already Faithful Númenoreans living in established colonies, like at Pelargir in the South, and they essentially ruled over a larger population of Middle Men who already populated those areas, like the Bree-folk, and the Dunlendings and Men of Rhovanion. That, and Sauron waited a full century before he assaulted Gondor again, so the survivors of Númenor had time to bring their numbers back up a bit. Being Men, they do reproduce more rapidly and often than either Elves or Dwarves.
@@Isildun9
Great answer. Thank you.
Sounds echoing more than usual, dude. Just wanted you to know
Hmm, thanks for letting me know! I'll continue to work on it!
Why did Arnor suffered the most causalities during the War of the Last Alliance and did not recovered, while Gondor came out of the war as a military power and did not suffer as many causalities ?
Armor had a smaller population and not as lucrative trade routes and ports than her southern sister kingdom. Most of Arnor's soldiers were killed either in the war, or at the Disaster at Gladden Fields where Isíldur was killed. Also, Arnor eventually was split into three separate realms by one kings three sons, Arthedain, Cardolan, and Rhuadaur. Gondor also began bringing in other folk of Men into their realm to replenish their numbers, at the cost of watering down their Númenorean bloodline, while Arnor's Dúnedain dwindled in number, through plagues and wars, but didn't mingle as much with "lesser" Men. Think of it like what happened to Rome after the permanent split into the Western and Eastern Empires, under their own Emperors; the West quickly collapsed under assaults from barbarian tribes from without, and political factional infighting from within, while the East adapted and changed where needed to survive, even in a reduced state, with the greater wealth and trade granted from control of the Eastern provinces like Egypt and Syria. That's the best answer I got for ya, hope it was informative and not too long winded.
I wonder if this is what the Amazon series is going to be about.
why this video is not subtitled in French.
I do not understand English.😢
Still confused how the fall of Numenor and the literal reshaping of the world, didn't call for the ending of an age
If you fly from a sinking island, never forget to bring your 5m pet stone.
Maybe if Ar Pharazon didn't attacked Aman, they will still alive for at least 65 generations.
Wtf happen at 6:33?
If I was a Middle Man living in Eriador when Elendil showed up and declared himself my king, I think I would most likely put an arrow in his head. This is not to say Elendil was a bad guy. But the Numenoreans of that period had what we would politely call today a Spotty record. Yes, early on the Numenoreans had brought learning to the Men of Middle-earth. But that soon turned to evil, and last for hundreds of years. Elendil would come across people who remembered the Numenoreans as nothing but thieves, slavers and destroyers of their forests.
And really, who is he to establish kingdoms at all? He had no ties to these lands. Gil-galad said it was OK? Gil-galad had Lindon and nothing else. Men certainly weren't calling him Lord. These were lands that the Numenoreans would never even visit in their long lifetimes, much less set up cities. Huts on the river banks is more like it.
Elendil lands in Eriador. "I shall establish a new realm herd, and I shall be the High King over all Kings of Men!"
Some Middle Man watching this event. "I didn't vote for him."
@@Isildun9 I imagine Elendil coming to a place like Bree was like that scene in "Monty Python and The Holy Grail"
The Faithful Numenoreans had the blessing of the Valar and were thus spared from the Downfall. I’m sure some ethereal force would have eased the minds of the Middlemen and recognized the Faithful as good people. That or the Faithful did indeed already have a few settlements there and treated the Middlemen well, thus they were quick to accept them as their lords.
I know the divine right of kings is an absurd concept in the real world, but in Tolkien’s world, it certainly did exist.
@@Isildun9 You don't vote for kings!
@@jagpro91 Point One, normally you'd be right, but in this case, I'd have to say that the Holy Roman Empire and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth beg to differ, good sir. Point Two, shouldn't you be focused on the real enemy, The Judean People's Front?
There have been 11 others? Fool of a took man
y a mi k Sauron me cae bien! (+ o -), no era malo al prin, y al llegar la 2ª edad se arrepintio de sus maldades y kiso reformar el mundo, a su manera, para mejorarlo (claro k esas mejoras redundaron en corrupcion del mundo)
Why cant total war just make a game bout this
Y-Yes
O-Oh
Y-Yes
S-Show
T-Those
A-Arms
N-Now
You must be buff. This scientific comment proves it
Seriously dude, Tolkien stated clearly that Sauron "naturally had the One Ring" in Numenor. There is no question about it.
ilu
King shit