2000 4.2 V8 Audi A8L timing belt, cam chain tensioners, and engine revival
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- I finally got the 4.2 Audi V8 camshaft timing set properly, and got all the misfires out of this engine, and it's running smooth now. So far no more rough idle and no more flashing Check Engine Light. I replaced both cam shaft chain tensioners, the cam belt, spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, motor mount, one coil pack, and the PCV valve. I then changed the oil and replaced the coolant. This was one heck of a lot of work ! If you are used to working on simple Honda's and Toyota's this overly complex Audi A8 is NOT the car for you.
These engines are very sensitive to leakage in the breather system,pipes go brittle and crack. I pressure test mine. Pretty cheap to replace and makes engine run nice. Using an oscilloscope to check the cam phasing shows up worn tensioners. Slipper blocks can be changed if caught before damage is done,cost fraction of the price!
It's insane all the complexity Audi added to the 2000-2003 4.2L V8 just to get ten (10) more HP & seven (7) more lb.ft. of torque over the 1997-1999 4.2L V8!! To get that little bit of power they added:
1) A chain in each head to link to the "inside" camshaft and a Timing Chain Tensioner/Variable Valve Timing (VVT) Solenoid/Actuator that the plastic chain-guides break off of!
2) An intake manifold with variable-length runners controlled by vacuum modules & levers to move the plastic 'flaps' located inside the manifold (EVERY component of which becomes brittle and breaks!)
3) Switched from 4-valve heads to 5-valve heads.
I'll keep the FAR MORE RELIABLE 1997-1999 V8 and somehow live with only having 300hp instead of 310hp. Enjoy your extra 10HP and expensive repair bills!
I like the fact that you not only work on old cars, but are also well versed in modern engines too. Kudos to you.
Thanks for sharing the complexities of an Audi engine. I know they are difficult beasts and more expensive than a wife. Your video reminded me of the 1971 Audi 100LS I bought new in Germany when I lived there. The cam chain had a rubber tensioner on a spring behind a cover with about 15 Allen bolts. Not too hard to access after the bumper was removed. I had to put the tensioner back where it belonged three times. It also went through three sets of push rods and five alternators (each time the diodes burnt out). I blame the push rod problems on service. The dealer was using far tighter valve lash than my German factory manual suggested. I dumped the car at 36K miles. Too many repairs, and I see from your video that the situation is worse today. I’m sure you gain a lot of personal satisfaction from out thinking the problem, but what a lot of work. Good work, though.
Sorry, NOTHING is more expensive than a wife...Other than that, carry on..
@@kw57rx8dr.9 I have t disagree on that:these Audi’s each cost more than TEN wives!!.....or it is me being a cheapskate for my better half.....
@@henktulp4400 Must be in a country where wives are on full discount then. Where I live, ten wives would exceed the cost of most national budgets.
I changed my cam chain tensioners like you did and found that the Bentley manual I found on the internet had incorrect info in it! I forget exactly now but it was a case of counting how many chain links there were between the sprockets for each cam. One source said 15 another source said 16. Bentley was wrong, and it took a lot of internet surfing of Audi forums to get the correct info.
Nothing proclaims "Engineering Excellence" like a service procedure that begins with "Remove everything forward of the front wheels."
+hoppes9 no kidding
Oh wow, such a stupid comment. Big engine takes a lot of space, mate. You can either pull off the entire engine to do that, or take a couple things off the front.
2stroketurbo You got no room I got lucky no Cam Lock no front bumper off every tooth bang on but V6 30V Facelift. Good work🖒
Actual way of timing is lock the crank then loosen the cam pulleys then put the new belt on put the cam bar in place pull the pin then tighten up both cam pulleys it's perfect every time no second guessing.
Well obviously he has no clue and is finding stuff out as he fiddles around on that engine. Just the fact that he re-uses the camshaft journal bolts is a giveaway that he has no clue nor did he ever take a look into a service manual.
The Hoss you can reuse them
@@quattroblacksheep1156 they are stretchbolts on that engine. 5nm and then 90 degrees. Wanna try again?
Congratulation . That is a crazy setup. Big learning curve to figure that out.. Thanks Ron
+zzzdogutube That's why I got my best man working on it !
I just finished fixing the timing on my 1990 3.6 v8 audi. Similar setup, what a chore. Atleast I didnt have to pull the front end.
ThomasXp I didn't have to take the front off but some people want more room to play with
3.7*
Great car. Had two, and has driven 500.000 kms in them without any troubles. Absolutely love 'em, especially that its all aluminium and don't rust.
I know this is an older video, but it looks like you may have had a pully shift to cause your slippage. the pully to the right and up from the crank has spainer holes in it. One of the many things i overlooked the first time i did timing on my first 3.0L. They have a prefered orientation. I don't think it is ever a major problem, but i had my timing belt have a major slip, which took out the engine with that pully being the prime suspect. But it looks great otherwise.
Perfect work. Finally, someone who understands why the camshaft gears must be solved and locked the crankshaft. Only then will the tax time be 100% at the end.
I'm lucky to have you as my mechanic, Mark (Matt- Volvo, Civic, Corolla)! Always great vids.
+rover215 I'm lucky to be your mechanic, haha! Thanks Matt. The writing is on the wall however, as I am a dying breed. Literally and figuratively. Not many guys like me work on old stuff anymore, its going corporate very fast. And , so many have passed on to the Great Garage in the sky.... taking their wealth of information with them . I'm not going anywhere, so you are lucky !
@@2stroketurbo Scared me for a minute there? You said dying breed "literally", please hold on at least until you answer my question about my Treg so I can finish before I die myself?
Also jaguar 4cam has same press on cam gears. Release gear bolt with fixture installed and belt will correct timing. Also chain guide failure sounds tappy.. normal maintenance
balancing tensions on both sides at the same time not necessarily important. Gear is loose thats why. What is important the middle piece should fit exactly without any gap when tightening the bolts . Better using new ones.
just for reference, this is very similar to the 2.8 and 2.7t motors as well.
Yeah, the 3.0 v6 in the passats is the exact same as the 2.8 as well
Hey quick question please? I have a VW Treg same engine, someone replaced the timing belt before me and I'm swapping the engine over to another Treg and want to replace it again because it is either older than it looks or it was a very cheap aftermarket belt because it doesn't even have a part# or manufacturer stamp on it. I want to swap water pumps because the water pump on my other Treg is virtually brand new so need to remove the belt anyway. The guy that did it before me I assume was a dealership mechanic though maybe not a VW dealership because I know where it was purchased relative to the engine mileage. The problem is he marked the cam pulleys with white paint and the cam cover but if I line up those two marks the retainer washers on the cams are 180 degrees out and the retention tool does not lock in because the holes are reversed but it is at TDC presumably? If I rotate the crank 180 the marks are at the bottom and the retention tool lines up and #1 is again at TDC (?) so I've no idea whether it's on exhaust or compression stroke I know in theory I can change the belt anyway at that position but my concerns are why would he have not realigned the marks? The retention washers must have been correct or they would not fit on the cam? Any thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated? I'm reluctant to even remove the cam gears without knowing exactly what stroke it's in or why the misalignment? I'm just wondering if he didn't line up the marks but can't figure why or how he could have done it accidentally on both sides? BTW the damper mark also lines up with the tensioner at the bottom as well in both positions. It just occurred to me is it possible there is only one position for the crank key to lock and that is where the proper position is? Though I have yet to find that crank key access on my engine.
Never mind, figured it out, previous mechanic was a numpty, he also put the belt on at least one tooth off, fortunately not enough to damage the engine but it must have run like crap. The cam was not off in your case you only need 15 links between timing marks and it's ok, the loss of distance comes from the chain tensioner for the VVT they move when oil pressure pumps them up based on throttle application which is what advances the timing accordingly. If they are only a half tooth off evenly in either direction it's not critical and the bar is for the purpose of keeping them aligned even when the belt is off because they want to move slightly as yours did and all you had to do was bring it back down and connect it to the other side the trick is putting the cam washer and bolt back in when reinstalling the cams and everything lines back up but if the timing marks on the internal cam gears line up (again give or take a 1/16 or so of an inch), the timing marks on the crank which lines up on the belt cover where there is a timing 'V' then the timing is correct.
watched video because i was looking at buying a 2001 Audi A8 but the seller said it needed a timing tensioner replacement? they called it 'needed a little work'! So thanks for the info, even though the price was right and i love Audis, they are not for me if they need so much maintenance consistantly.
I was hoping to be able just to pull off upper timing covers, install crank pin, loosen cam gears, install timing alignment tool, and retighten cam gears to fix timing. Think this is possible by only removing upper covers and without removing belt?
I first saw that tapered cam gear thing on a diesel rabbit from 1981. When you tighten the belt you make sure the cam pulley bolt is slightly loose until its at the correct tension. That was hard for me to grasp. No key way i thought no way!
I also remember that on the vw diesel also
Question here... Why is there green coolant in that car? Seriously?!!?
true story
I say green coolant is the way to go! Just super flush the system and then you are good. No more paying way to much for coolant. No need to worry when you are on a trip and have a leak and can not find audi coolant.
Really awesome video. Is this the same engine in the touareg?
Is the bar you used for locking the cams a standard tool for the 2000 4.2L V8? I just did the timing job on my 1999 A8 Quattro and had to use a rental Audi Tool 3341, which is about $300 to buy! We also had to make our own crankshaft locking tool (Audi 3197) because I couldn't find it at all. I know my engine is a little different because it doesn't have variable valve timing. And I totally agree, these cars are a nightmare to work on! I can't believe how many hours you can spend on the "simplest" of repairs with these cars.
I had a brain fart but very good good and informative video I had one exactly like that car with 261k miles and it is just the most complicated engine I've ever worked on
how many hours of labor is required to replace both cam chain tensioners?
thnx
Info like torque specs for screws and caps .... special tools for timing...
Nice work. Seen a 07 on line for sale for cheap thats needs this done. Seeing if i should tackle it. Car is in emaculant shape outside the timing
How do you replace the cam tensioner, do you have to unbolt the cams from the top? I’m not quite as scared now I’ve seen you video with the cam marks, but if I don’t have to I’d rather not.
I only hear americans complaining about european cars that much. Guess we are used to working on more complex things hence we find it normal. The timing belt takes me 3 hours on those engines. The Toyota Yaris and such don't take less time. Small engines transversly mounted an no place to work on. And don't even get me started on Ford!
I've also had several Audis through the model range between 91 and 02 and plenty of them above 400.000km. Can't say you find many japanese cars with these km on our market. If you do, you don't want to drive them.
Oh yeah, before I forget, good work! Clean job and thourough.
Super nice video! good job
So how much did you charge for this service ?
Looks good! The keyless cam pulleys remind me of working on a 24V Alfa Romeo V6. I know on that engine you had to do the tensioner and idler pulleys during a service. I am thinking the Audi is the same way.
This seems real obvious.
Why is there not a master link in the timing chain?
Would that not simplify the chain adjuster removal and installation?
I trust you replaced the old timing belt with a new one.
Of course
@@2stroketurbo
;>)
Great video!
Quick question: I am getting a CEL on my 2002 4.2L A6, P0022 "A camshaft position over retarded" (Bank 2). I swapped out the cam position sensor ($20) and the car ran great for about 10 miles, then the error flagged again and I basically lost all the HP. I am planning on trying to replace the cam chain tensioner you mentioned in the beginning of the vid. Do you think this poor performance could be the result of a failing timing belt as well?
I know it's been a while. I 'm doing same on a 2001 A8 but the manual is telling me to take crank lock out and rotate crank counter clockwise 45 deg. so the cams are not pushing any lifters. You did not have to do that did you? If I did what they say would I have to put that nightmare crank pin in again?
Is this due to oil starvation on start up and low idle? I have a 4.2l D3 and can hear the rattle for 2 seconds on start up, and then hear another slight rattle when accelerating until 1000rpm. Im about to pull the valve covers and take a look, but there is an audi TSB calling the rattle on start up normal, but oil starvation for even 2 seconds is no bueno....anyone with any advice please comment
There are two oil check valves that close after the engine shuts down and keeps oil from draining from the valve train. These wear out and stop sealing as well. My Touareg 4.2 does the same thing
@@ogalief I've had my valves covers off on that car more times than Id like to admit lol, I've heard of these CVs but haven't seen them. I've done both tensioners and the rattle is almost gone. Weird thing now is VCDS says my driver's side timing is 8 degrees advanced when my timing is dead on. Its not the sensors either, so I'm not sure WTF is going on with that.
I know this is an old video, but i'm about to do this job on my 2001. Can anyone tell me what size is the crank bolt? Need to get a socket for it
WOW AND WOW !!!
What kind of special tools are needed for this job? Is there a manual for the torque specs of the caps screws? I have the same diesel like sound on my 2001 audi S6 and my mechanic won't do the job coz he's afraid of breaking my engine! So I really need some repair manuals and special tools so we could this job together! Other mechanics want to change 1000'sssss and I'm from lebanon where the minimum wage is 500$ a month! So any help would be appreciated!
If u rotated the cam with the crank at TDC you'll be hitting the valves..... you need to put the crank 30* before TDC to rotate the cams without hitting anything
Angel C if you dont align the cams back will the car start
I am impressed with your ability to diagnose problems like this. Did you have to press the cam gear back on the shaft?
+John Yontz The cam gear is seated and presses on when you torque the cam bolt, not sure I agree with why/how that's a good idea though
It works just fine since the 90ies when the first AAH and ABC V6 engine were made by Audi. You obviously have no fucking clue.
Lmfao, I was resuming this video and I sadly just noticed customer went to ECS tuning for parts.... in other words they were ripped a new one times 4
audi/vw engines are the scariest things to me
I wanted to replace my alternator on my A6 c5 4.2L every time I tighten the 8mm top bolt on the alternator , the pulley gets stuck and freezes in place, I back off the bolt and it spins freely. Do you know what causes this?
Actually, you could have been done alot quicker. loosen pullies, lock crank, lock cam bar, let the tensioner tension, tighten the pullies.
SPROCKETS DONT HAVE TO BE TOUCHED thats a fact
@quattroblacksheep1156 Jesus F Christ, to be done correctly as per Audi service bulletin they do. It actually makes the job easier and more precise. Done it many times.
Awesome video! Very very helpful! I'm in the middle of the same project but need help with some of the little details, like torque specs and do you need to replace the cam gear bolts? On some of the golfs they're "stretch" bolts and have to be replaced, was wondering if thats the same deal?
Yes, probably.
@2stroketurbo Thank you! Can confirm. In the service manual, it says, "insert new bolts" took forever to find a dang manual for this thing lol
Was there any rattling noise before or other hints ?
how much did you charge to fix this??? I am having the same issue with the idle rough and banks 1,2,3,4 missfiring
Did you try a new belt? Play and stretch in the belts is not unknown. I have worked on loads of these and the 30 valve 2.8 v 6 engines and never had to pull the pulley off the shaft. They are set on a machine at the factory
Andrew Wilson Line up the big hole's to the middle straight edge. Crank TDC
Pulling the sprocket allows for pretension of the belt and install of the belt without fully removing the dampener.
audi's v-engines are maintenance hell
Great video...timing these puppies is definitely an art! Any of you guys have D2 gearbox oil pressure lines? I'm fine to get used (non leaking!) 4DO 317 825K supply and 4DO 317 826K return lines. Audi wants an outrageous $360-390 each...OUCH!
Only 160 /k mi. Dang!. Wanted A8L since they first came out. Thank goodness my mech talked me into A6 instead. (300K mi. now) BTW don't buy audi auto tranny.
Damn good job!
There should be pins on the locking bar to time the two banks.
-- SO, right and left cams HAVE a notch that lines up with the bar tool only at TDC. There is one HOLE drilled in the crank to also lock crank at TDC. So with PIN in crank and bar aligning the camshafts you could loosen and spin the sprockets which ever direction needed, install belt, tighten NEW cam bolts (following the above 5mm/5nm advice) and you cant go wrong. As with every 4stroke engine, the crank rotates TWICE for each time the cams rotate, my guess is there are twice as many teeth on the cam sprockets as the crank sprocket has. IF you've ever seen a picture of the 40 valve head (5 valves per cylinder) on the all aluminum 4.2l you would wonder why it's only 335hp. My guess: EPA killed it's performance and the lack of charger-boost keep it under 600hp, especially with pressure for reliability and competitor warranties.
I'd love to attempt to change the timing belt on my 99 D2 but my poor old car leaks oil, quite badly, I'm going to just get another D2 when the belt snaps snaps! I know sound mean but probably cheaper I'm sure.
Jacana Productions my 2001 A6 4.2 leaks no matter what I do. I've been in the engine three times with timing problems. The one thing that they don't tell you it's the transmissions on these go out at around 80 k. I've already been into the transmission once as well. I can only get this car to run good for a month and then it breaks down again.
I just did the timing belt, headgaskets, oil cooler seals & pipe on my 99 D2! It is a lot of work! Mine was leaking oil badly and had misfires. Had no idea what I was doing, but through research on online forums and renting the right camshaft tools the car now runs as good as new and no leaks! I've got 163,000 miles on the car with the original engine and transmission. The gaskets and plastics Volkswagen used when they built these cars were pretty crappy, but the aftermarket stuff is pretty good. You won't be disappointed at all if you do the repair. Here's the instructions from Audi Pages: www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/enginemechanical/tbreplace0.html
would the tools used on this video work on an 2001 audi a6?
did you not change the waterpump?
Audi brilliance. Timing belt and chains. 🙄
I love my 2002 Audi S6 Avant and my 2003 A4 quattro 3.0 6 spd
Why didnt they just use chains on cams too.
How much would something like this run?
Does anyone know if the thermostat is around the crankshaft area on this engine. I bought a 2000 A6 v8 4.2L and got the engine running but the coolant level light comes on even though reservoir shows ok, but i saw boiling water running into reservoir - is thermostat stuck?!
Unfortunately, thermostat and housing is behind the timing belt to the left (when facing the engine) of the water pump. No way to service without doing a FULL timing belt job...
This must be the 32 valve ABZ not the 40 valve AUX? Procedure I imagine is pretty much the same between the two?
Its a facelift so has to be 40v.
Somebody help me with this. I have a 2005. A6. 4.2 with the same issues. Everyone is telling me the motor has to come out. But 2stroke just did this without pulling the motor. Is there a difference? They're telling me it's about 5000.00 to complete.
Your 4.2 has no timing belt, just A chain. The chain is between the gearbox and the engine. So you have to remove the the engine to Get to the tensioner.
Looks like 928 meets 901
I would think you need to break the cam bolts loose to the timing belt sprockets. possibly when they last changed the belt it was very worn.
Those are pretty nice cars but being 16 years old is it really worth it to spend that much money on it??
It sucks you needed to replace the entire part, you think since at some wear and tear item technically the nylon piece could be replaced without the entire tensioner
Had the chain not eaten into the metal part of the tensioner, you can just replace the pads. Unfortunately, sometimes the pad just fly apart and running it even for a short time can wear those grooves. When that happens you really should replace the entire tensioner as I am doing right now. Simply not worth taking the chance.
Also, the cars may be getting little old but they are still quite nice (if you take care of them) and worth keeping on the road in my opinion. My 2003 has over 200K miles on it. I simply don't feel the need to go drop even more money on newer car that's going to end up needing the same type of work done on it. Plus the car is paid for.
I have a 1999 A8 , 160K just did the water pump and timing belt. now I have a coolant leak.There are some good service websites out there with detailed repair instructions, bc , well these are a bear to work on!
Could you pitch me a couple? I have an '03 C5 S6, 4,2 ANK. Although I've found some instructions on how to keep this running, I was never really satisfied. There's never enough of good resources, right?
was the motor at TDC when you were aligning the cams using the cam marks?
Wougit1 TDC on the Audi 4.2 is measured at cylinder #5 (for whatever reason) and that is the point where the cam locking pin will align with its slot in the crankshaft and the cam timing slots will align to the arrows on the end bearing caps.
They do not do their static timing in a conventional manner and don't have marks.
Martin Hocking The Crank case has a TDC mark
See 928 history
Do you know were is the starter for these cars
Passenger side, near the gearbox
Sorry to say but you did it wrong, to make it perfect you need to use ELSAWIN and put the timing belt on the loose timing wheels in correct order, eccentric pulley 6nm torque, two holes on it no more than 1 o clock, otherwise it will missfire becouse it will be slightly off time. Sadly to say if you have car like that you need to work on it yourself becouse mechanics don't have the idea what they are doing... To make it perfect like clean everything including intake manifold, we are talking about like 60hours of work that's how long it took me. Like I said to make it perfect no rush, clean everything, to tension every bolt and every pulley etc. Otherwise, damages will come with time.
I just got a 2001 a6 4.2 😢 what type of price am i looking at for this job?
Also wouldn't it be easier to just take the whole front off?
No because this way the only thing you have to disconnect are a couple of wiring connectors and the radiator hoses on the passenger side. All of the other connections (transmission cooler, power steering cooler, A/C refrigerant hoses) are on the drivers side and will flex nicely to allow the whole front radiator support to swing out far enough to give plenty of room to work on the front. I'm currently doing this exact same job on my wife's 03 A8L. I paid a shop $1100 about 3 years ago to do the timing belt and water pump. Since then I got the tools to do this myself. The is NOT a job for any beginner mechanics though. The experience level needed here is pretty high. Anyway, the tensioner on the passenger side ate the plastic pad on ours the other day and it looks identical to the one he showed in the video. I have a new tensioner on the way but I'm going replace the pads on the other one while I have it down. Will be doing the timing belt also.
If it has a timing chain why does it also have a timing belt and then driven by a serpentine belt?
On the older engines (pre 2005, I think), Timing chain keeps the exhaust and intake cams in sync for each bank (Cyl 1-4 and Cyl 5-8) so the valves know when to open and close. The timing belt runs between the aligns the crank and (exhaust?) valve and avoids the valves opening into the top of the piston. If the timing belt brakes, you will have an 'interference' engine which bends valves...no fun. The serpentine belt only runs the accessories (AC, PS, Alt, etc).
The beauty of the old timing belt is that it's located in the front. The newer timing chain failure (or stretch) requires the entire engine to come out for repair/replace.
Its audi A8 L. Or better known as A8 Hell
This is why my boss knows better than to give me anything European to work on.
I'll stick to my American and Japanese vehicles thank you very much
Where are you buying these parts!? So pricey
Check FCPEuro. Thats where I go.
Fuck! I have the same issue with my 01 A8. How much $ for the repair?
why audi why....
for the eargasm you get every time that healthy 4.2 sings it's way up to 8k
I was under the impression that the A8 was the disposable model. Use one up, buy another, etc.
so basically they paid $3000+ usd to get this car firing right
I advise ANYBODY buying a 2nd hand audi with this engine to only buy one where the camchains and guides have been replaced..otherwise youre in for a NASTY repair bill...around 3-3.1/2 grand.!!!..these are VERY expensive to fix...audi v8s are a fucking nightmare...so unless you have proof its been done..do NOT BUY ONE...
This video is a mess. The cam pulleys that the timing belt ride on need to be loose and freewheeling when you remove the pin on the hydraulic tensioner. The arrows you made on these pulleys should not line up because the belt will have stretched over its life. Set the chain timing first with the arrows on the cam caps, count the number of links between them (should be 15) to make sure you are correct and then do the timing belt. These are one of the easiest VW/Audi belts to do because nothing can move, crank is pinned in, cams are locked with the bar and hopefully you flushed the cooling system and put the correct G12+ or G13 in.
русские есть?
nightmare engine would have dropped a chevy v8 in instead.
+Ron Taylor I hear what you are saying, ...although all this hard work has paid off. I just got back from a spirited road test. This engine runs great, proabably better than it ever has, and is super powerful , I didn't know they are rated @ 335hp . It moves this car very well. I dare say it is quite fast. My customer will be very happy.
+2stroketurbo Didn't you do another video with this car a while back?
many thanks for this vid i need to change the timing belt on my 4.2 A8 and it looks like a nightmare. its somthing i have to do as its done 105000 miles and no record of a cambelt change
jajaja new pvc valve another $200 new ignition coil $130 labor and parts $3600 hell no thow that piece of german crap away... i will never buy a german car again... it will end up costing more on the long run...
This guy paid WAAAAY too much for parts. Parts are no more expensive than any other car of the same type. Far too often crappy mechanics get cars from crappy owners then they blame the car when it's really just the owners fault. I've had several of these engines that I put into several different A4 chassis and they all have been simple to work on.
These cars are poorly built and are a money pit
swaggerboy740 Water pump is 40 pound lol you never had the skills you mean
I hope that coolant in the drain pan isn't from this vehicle.