@@LeonPhythian69 the MC-707 really has some unused potential. In addition to what you suggested it would be really cool to have a DAW controller mode, with the faders and the knobs it would be very well suited. Apparently from the Zen Core machines only the Fantom has that.
Really smart engineering...improving the tactile experience without add redundant components. Ya sold me. Arrives tomorrow. Zen beats already downloaded. I can see the dna of my boss br 1200 in it, which brings an emotional reaction..thankyou for putting up
I did, both in my original MC-101 video and when I saw this. Hopefully they'll listen. Zenology Pro is kind of close, but ideally indeed you could just edit everything directly connected to the device.
There's no money for manufacturers in updates. Most never provide meaningful updates. Even cell phone manufacturers only do it reluctantly and poorly. Most music companies just about never do, beyond bug fixes anyway.
@@SteveMeiers I’ve been pretty happy with what Arturia have done with the Microfreak and Morningstar Engineering do with the MC midi footcontrollers, BUT...I would agree with you for the most part.
New 1.80 firmware for this just dropped- they added the ability to export/import entire clips, add a fade-out at the end of a song during mixdown, pan vocal takes, added some new effects, and a handful of other things. And a sequencer undo/redo!
Ohh I really hope this come to the MC707. Sadly, the experience I've had, but it might be wrong, is that Roland rarely release updates things older than a year.
Roland usually doesn't announce anything in advance. For example, nobody had any idea they would release a new plug out for the system 8, and then out of nowhere they surprise everyone
They made a huge firmware update to rc505 after years so who knows… but yes Roland “used to”… let’s hope they have learnt something after years of pissed off users.
Roland have been pretty good with updates lately, however they are few and far between, and drop out of the blue. But when they do drop updates, they tend to be pretty great
Some will say this is a very cool step in the right direction, others will say it's redundant and defeats the purpose of having a hardware unit. I personally prefer working in a DAW, so I very much like this.
So I have to say, one thing that I really wish they would add is the ability to bring up the notes in a given clip to quickly clean them up in case you fat fingered something. Manually editing note data on the MV-1 itself is kind of annoying so it would be useful to quickly clean that up.
Great to the point video 👍🏾- i’m really intrigued by the MV1- 1 because it’s more of a stand alone Sequencer than a sampler. 2 the price. There are a few things that could be improve upon, but for now it’s just what need. And if I can get my hands on an old ipad I’d be complete..
I appreciate the update! On the fence about buying this as it's on sale right now...I have a bit of GAS when the holidays roll around lol great video as always!
Certainly would have been nice if there had been a Jupiter (or Fantom, or MC) icon on the Zenbeats home page. Imagine if each track were a Part, each column represented Parts on/off, if there was a real mixer, if you could click on a clip to bring up Zenology Pro. Even on iOS or Android with ZC-1. What a good reason that would be to subscribe to Roland Cloud. Good to see the technology and know-how exists, though.
There isn't really a good reason to sub to Roland cloud, you'd end up paying more than you would if you just bought them at once. Whilst subscriptions are nice I just feel Roland cloud isn't worth it considering I personally don't want half the stuff in it, I just kind of want the 808 and Jupiter but there are already some free and pretty good emulations of them. The guys who designed the 808 made their own and it's a very in depth synth that I can see sound designers loving.
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I absouletely agree with you. Jupiter xm needs to be integrated with zenbeats 5 rows ( each of them represenst one different parts) columns can be mixer. Volume on/off. So we can record much more than 64 steps, we can record our vocal which is connected to mic for vocoder (jupiter xm)
The thing is you can build a layout in zenbeats to control these but not plug’n play like this… Roland should implement song import from zen family to give users a true solution. Half backed things are PITA IMO.
@@espertempo By far. By leaps and bounds. Almost as if using an Android tablet is like using a meat tenderizer when you need a hammer. Android is a joke compared to iOS for music production. Facts.
I wouldn’t call this “integration”. It’s one-way, as you say a screen for the MV-1. No enhancement that I can see for Zenbeats users. I wish it was a proper hardware controller, sort of like the Push is for Live. Instead of more screens, more buttons and hands on experience. With some real integration one might even get by the audio time limitation of the MV-1, using Zenbeats on the iPad for audio. But it seems like this only works in “MV-1 mode” where you can’t even add extra audio tracks and you have the same limitations as standalone.
To me it makes a lot of sense ;) if you really need / want a screen, bring your own- if not, just make music. I chose the MV over the One because it doesn‘t have a fiddly touchscreen
Coming from the MV-8800, the Verselab MV-1 is a very tough sell. On one hand I really want to like this, on the other hand it just doesn't come close to the (now slow&old) MV-8800 in terms of features. I wish they would make the whole thing less limited. The update in terms of hardware is great, the lack of a 'mouse + screen' editing everything is pretty bad. I can see why they targeted a Maschine MK3-like price point, but at the same time I don't see how it would be the better deal at this point. Don't get me wrong, I can see how it is a capable machine of making beats or even songs, which is great. But with the hardware experience they have, with the MV-8000 and MV-8800, MC-909, SP-808 and SP-606, I really would have wanted to see an improved version of the MV-8800. Modernised and up to current day standards. Not sure if the MV-1 could ever become that, seeing how much is still missing. And yes, I am aware the MV-8000 and MV-8800 became best after a handful of software updates. But come on.
I think the MV-1 was marketed badly. In fact it shouldn't even be called an MV because it's nothing like the MV8000 really. It's closer to the MC-101 and MC-707
Many thanks for this Information! I was unsure whether to buy the MPC Live 2 or the Verselab. Now that the "small screen issue" is fixed I can happily pick the Roland for its nice ZEN Synth engine. 👍
Loopop another good review. There is also audio wave editing.I am hoping the next model up will have a touch screen doing what the ipad GUI can output and in the FX. 3D SRV and SDE presets from the 90s.Peter from Roland Verselab MV-1 Users Independent Group.
I wish these kind of groove boxes support midi input from devices like launchpad and launchcontrol xl in the future so you can trigger and mix clips hands on. :)
The Verselab isn't designed for live performance with clip launching. The MC-707/101 are, and some folks have made custom Launchpad midi scripts for them. So there you go.
@@cooloutbeats isn’t designed but potentially useful. Look at how firmware updates revamped old wrkflows (the most powerful I’ve seen the rc505) so if they implement some little tweaks they will have an amazing workststion. Meanwhile we need to wait or purchase two expensive machines to do half of the things (as usual with Roland)
Neat, thanks for the quick show, LP! will be getting it :) ... so it is not really Zenbeats, more like a BYOS extension for the box, which is cool enough. But what VerseLab does if you don't go into new mode? Does it control Zenbeats as a midi controller, incl start/stop control, maybe sequencer? Also, do you know if VerseLab qualifies and can run zen-core extensions on it (like Fantom, 707/101), for ex. Jupiter8?
Yeah don't buy Zenbeats. It's def net the best DAW on the market right now, it mighte be the worst since it's actually just a mobile DAW Roland bought called Stagelight
@@illford I got Zenbeats day one (having it made by others, probably still enthusiastic developers, not Roland, was one of the reasons to jump on it :) ZB does not yet reach usability of Korg Gadget flow, but replaces Cubasis for me (for AUv3). With VerseLab as a dedicated control surface to Zenbeats it may be the N1 DAW .... one day, maybe. Plus its standalone hardware value (while there is no sign of dropping MV1 project into ZB as project and just continue to beefs up there).
It's sadly only the screen that lets it down. The sound engine and workflow is fantastic, it's good to see that idea>mastered track option for beginners. I had an RM1X back in the day, lots of fun but grooveboxes have come a long way...
That ridiculous old-school mouse-style scrolling does really look painful on a touch screen... Also no gain reduction metering on the compressor and limiter?!?
Roland somehow manages to make an app that feels strange on iOS AND Android. However it seems to work better on iOS. Unfortunately I don’t have an iPad but only an android tablet.
I have been a professional live sound engineer for a decade, I know how to compress by ear. It's still nice to have the metering. Why do you think 99% of professional outboard compressors all come with metering?
That's why I'll never stop loving the sp 404 and novation circuit. Those are the type of experiences I want out of a groovebox. They're instruments, not distillations of a daw.
Looks great, but they have to add the possibility to work with your vocal settings too before I buy anything, if you add effects to you vocals, you can still change those after the recording or get the dry signa again if you want to bring them in to another DAW for vocal affects and mixing?
Anyone should correct me when completely wrong, but I don't think the MV-1 has a lot of non-destructible editing in there actually. And while it does allow for editing, it is unclear to me if it is limited to the vocal track itself or if it is flexible enough to edit the audio clip on a vocal track. Even worse, you can only adjust basic parameters to whatever the ZenCore engine provides in terms of the sounds. I would hope the external connection to PC or phone solves this, but again... seems pretty limited. Not to mention, sampling seems lacking on the MV-1.
As one of those who commented about the tiny display on the original review video, I'm still not seeing the value here. It seems like the money would go a lot farther on a PC and DAW. One song memory? Really? RAM is so cheap these days, wtf? Another great review though! It will save a lot of us some dinero!
with how fast Roland moves I doubt it. The MPC range is amazing at doing what it does. If Behringer made the Verselab MV-1 everyone would be laughing at them, don't know how Roland gets away with producing such crap for the price.
Are Roland’s sounds, sequencer, or effects that much better than iOS apps that it warrants buying this thing? I like the idea but at this point why not a midi controller and gargeband, gadget, or beat maker 3?
@@ct6929 Zenbeats isn't really the greatest though. It's not terrible just poorly laid out, don't like that I'm forced to get a Roland account either, on mobile it's pretty good but in PC it's s but behind as if you know the law you know it was first designed as a mobile app called Stagelight by a different company Roland just bought them ig
Dedicated hardware will always be the best thing. Over the years the accents float but the stability and ergonomics of hardware combined with software flexibility will always be the ultimate solution. If the PC/laptop hadn't killed the hardware DAW market (of which the Roland VS2480 was the ultimate incarnation) something like this would already have been available years ago. The real question is therefore (again): Do you want it enough to spend the extra money? :-)
@@marcbrasse747 I'm definitely a Hardware guy. I always have been. I have not been too impressed with what Roland is coming up with. I want to like it but there's always something that makes the workflow clunky
Im a little surprised we dont have an App. that allows us to add our phones to a midi keyboard so we can use the phone screen for visuals and any other media - fx, recording, even VST's.
Probably too labor intensive for it. As shown in the video the connection doesn't support effects for the vocals. Dunno but maybe too heavy for the app to deal with audio?
@@grazstarr zenbeats was stagelight was nekoOS… they need some time to integrated things if possible from the gear side. Zenbeats can do more, includding chops and other things. In fact they should able MV1 song import directly… atm it’s just glorified screen.
Awesome! Love the verselab. 👍 Edit:..get only a loading to mv-1 screen and it loads forever. Only once get a connection but it freezed. Do you maybe know the problem? ( ipad pro 2018, latest ios )
Thanks and I don't know - for me it didn't work with one USB C to A cable and did when I used a different one so maybe try that (beside force quitting the app and restarting). Also, did you update to 1.03?
Great Video, the MV1 looks like a good production unit. However, so many people seem to whinge about a product they have bought. Do they not try out the unit before they buy or are they just stupid ?
I really like the verselab, but I'm hesitant to purchase one, sometimes I feel it's just an overkill and expensive controller for Zenbeats. If you consider that you can use the software by itself, for free!
It’s amazing how much gets packed into such small footprints these days. But I have to ask... at what point does one just get a daw instead? I’d just prefer several devices that each do one thing well , rather than one device that does several things poorly.
@@Chris6741 It really and truly is, even if Roland doesn’t want to market it as the great DAW it is. I’ve stopped using everything else, Zenbeats has all I need for both softsynths and hardware (well, it could, as shown here)
@@RobertSaintJohn no it's not, Roland didn't even make Zenbeats, it's just s reskined version of Stagelight, and whilst it is very lightweight I find it a lot harder to use than other DAWs due to it being designed for both mobile and PC/Mac when they should've made the PC one first and then a Mobile one
@@illford Mobile or desktop, it’s the exact same interface. All that was said is that it’s a “good, simple DAW”. If it’s too complex for you, I don’t know what to say. And what difference does it make if it started with Roland or not? Does that somehow make it harder for you to use?
@@illford they come from Neko workstations so drawbacks aren’t from mobile design more than not taking fully potential of iPad due it’s lightyears ahead any other proposal (desktoo includded) so compromises made. Look at M+, the same. Ableton Push2? On and on… every proposal has drawbacks. It’s easy to adapt ourselves than expect brands get everything right since each person see it from its POV.
And it even works on a pc, when the mv-1 is the Audio interface of another DAW... On my main screen there is my Cakewalk, and on the right one is my Zenbeats...(with no or another Audio interface) Its so fucking amazing, this is the dirtiest Gearporn I ever watched....
I think it’s a smart move. No company in audio has the resources to manufacture a screen at the quality of Apple or Samsung. So outsourcing it sort of to an iPad is an amazing idea. It’s easy to add an adapter to the device. And then you have a very very good touch screen better than anything they could manage in house affordable.
@@ryanpwm nobody is expecting an iPhone screen on the MV-1 or MC-101. All we're asking for in the 2020s is something more useful than a 2-line text display...
Better but I stil think it is rather limited in its scope. Roland dit this better 20 years or so ago with the VS-series hardware studio's. The ultimate version was the VS2480 which combined the stabilty and ergonomics of dedicated hardware with the versatility of screen and mouse operation. Then PC'/laptops brought the market for such machines to its knees. So my compliments to Roland for trying to revive the idea but they are still not quite there. The biggest limitation is that one can not do longer projects on this . I recently finished a 40 minute long 16 track WAV-quality project on my ancient VS2480. That wouldn't be possible on this thing. So if Roland want to do it right they shoudl release somethig lik ethat with in inbuilt multritrack sequencer. This is at best a song building box for the beat-generation.
Roland is making very hard to like them. I am truly curious to see how much of this is supported and current in 5 years. The VSynth didn’t fair so well. Or how about their fancy virtual mixing desk system
I mean, it's probably not the most economic thing to do to support somewhat old products I mean from their perspective might be a waste, in addition I usually find this is a normal issue for hardwares I absolutely hate the idea I have to plug into a computer or have WiFi to update it, seems a bit redundant
It works my new iPad Air 4 via USB C - not sure about older iPads or iPhones - I tested with my iPhone 11 and it didn't give it enough juice, so probably not.
@@loopop hi and thanks very much for the quick reply. FYI .. I did a little research on Touchable and it looks like exactly what I had in mind …. however …. in one of the comments the writer indicated he believes that the creators of Touchable may have abandoned the project. A couple of people mentioned the app LK as a more stable Touchable alternative (although with fewer features).
@@danpelos The MV1 is definitely simpler/more straight forward. The MPC One workflow is much more complex. So from a musician POV, the MV1 is more accessible, and has a lot of vocal effects the MPC One does not have, but the MPC One has more tracks and a more complex sampler. Another alternative is the Toraiz SP16 from Pioneer.
Definitely the MV-1, it was going to buy the MPCX but its almost 4k Australian, this unit has everything I need as a singer and songwriter with minimal external purchases. I was lucky to get it before the lifetime key give away ran out ,now I have synthwave and synthpop and a whole lot more to choose from packwise, instead of the stock R&B hip hop, which are genres I'm not interested in.
I just watched the 8 minute Roland video about the new features, and they show that you can edit ANY waveform. So I think it's in there? 🤷🏻♂️ I'll know more tomorrow when my unit arrives
It still needs disk streaming to take the time limit off loops/samples, it's the main gap in the market. Mpc don't hack it, deluge is too complex and the actual fx are too low quality.... where when will the daw replacer with full audio stems come!?!
Never because that's Hella expensive. Presuming you have a lot of projects the hard drive required would need to be massive or you'd be required to put in an SSD yourself. They don't do it to save space and reduce load time. It's easy for software to do but for hardware it works a bit differently. In addition no hardware will ever replace a DAW but rather be an alternative mainly because hardware probably won't be able to load VSTs one did that but no one wanted it I believe because it was expensive.
@@illford thanks, yeah. Well deluge can disk stream, mpc cannot. Blackbox can in theory but have big problems with the different SD types. And tbh, with SSDs much lower in price I would so badly invest in that to work DAWless for the stability that *should* come with a dedicated device... but hey, let's see if M1s make ableton super reliable under stress loads on low sample rate. I guess partly I love the idea of a 'gig brain' that you unplug from your studio and take on tour as laptops on stage there's always drama, stress or limitations...
I want a groovebox to produce music standalone without a computer... buy an mv1... I want to produce it in an easy and comfortable way, but the screen is too small... connect your mv1 to a computer.... 🤔 find the mistake 🤷🏼♂️
I agree @xn-triq7607 I wanted to buy one, but if one can use the software by itself, don't see much of an advantage to buy the verselab. It's an expensive controller
My guess is they had to start somewhere, and it’s better to release something than wait until everything is finished. Plus vocals require a different, timeline based interface because they don’t sit on a grid
@@loopop zenbeats has timeline… probably they didn’t add vocals yet due it’s handled by different chip than zencore which is what they are focused to sell in first place. After they get people tied to subscription zencore then other things maybe come…
You said android devices; starsky says it only works with mac/iPad. Is it confirmed it works with android? I'd be pretty sad to get it, only having android devices, and then discover android isn't supported. Thanks.
The ZenBeats software exists for Android but I didn't test it - it's a company claim - you should definitely ask the company to make sure. However, do you happen to remember the timeline in his video where he said that?
@@loopop sorry, didn't see this response. He said it at the 7:15 mark of his video, but perhaps that info has changed and he didn't update his video. I'll do more research before I jump on this device. Thanks. Edit to add: I did see that the software exists. But it seems I would not be able to test whether the mv1 works with that software, on this device (Samsung tablet) unless I connected the mv1, since the icon won't show up unless it's connected. Maybe someone with a Samsung tablet and the device could verify if it comes up.
i thought the single audio track was its biggest flaw, did they fix that? Seems silly like the TR8s not having unquantized sequencing. Unnecessary limitations
Zenbeats(?) looks like Garageband. Thank you, now I understand the structure in Garageband. It seems as if its as complicated as Roland Verselab. Maybe I save a lot of money if I put efforts in understanding Garageband than to buy a hardware which does nearly the same. Both are complicated and cumbersome.
Zenbeats is actually great. What makes 0 sense is what they call “integration” with the MV-1. Actually I was eager to see what MV1 would ADD TO Zenbeats, and it’s... nothing. Zenbeats becomes an editing screen for the MV1, MV1 adds nothing to Zenbeats. What they’re doing with this product is actually quite surprising.
Sample editing of start and end points is terrible on the MV-1. Even holding shift button It takes forever. It’s faster on the sp404 Or any other sampler. Even old Roland rackmount samplers. What were they thinking. BUY AN MPC ONE. people This is not for sample based production . Sample slice is also hit or miss
Exactly 😂. You buy hardware so you can play with the iPad screen. Instead of making a hardware controller for a daw they turn the daw into a screen. It’s weird thinking,
Eventually through trial and error Roland may pack this powerful Zencore into a modern form factor that does it justice (and is affordable). That it first appeared inside a keytar was, in hindsight, a bad omen.
The biggest flaw is the software. The separation of tracks and vocals is moronic, no daw does this. No proper time line arrangement. The view for the iPad makes a un polished turd , slightly buffed, but still not a shiny 💩
This is one of most ugliest products Roland release. I'm saying these as a user of the great MV-8800. Roland keep making regurgitated/castrated versions of their most beloved products for the mass with only maximum profit in mind and without any innovation. If you are hearing your customers dear Roland, please make an MV-9000 with a real opensource system (like Linux) and swap able CPU with optional DSP cards accelerators and for sure you can sell a lot of expansions and all your software thing without the ugly cloud and no internet connection needed. And if you wan to make a truly open SDK you can change the market forever.
Would be interesting to see if Roland provides similar support for the MC-707, etc in the future.
I've been waiting for that with my fingers crossed
Yes please!!
Where do I have to sign?
my thoughts exactly, this would be an amazing addition.
@@LeonPhythian69 the MC-707 really has some unused potential. In addition to what you suggested it would be really cool to have a DAW controller mode, with the faders and the knobs it would be very well suited.
Apparently from the Zen Core machines only the Fantom has that.
They were so close with the 707. Would be great if they added it to Zenbeats. Would love to see the tr8s on there too.
Really smart engineering...improving the tactile experience without add redundant components. Ya sold me. Arrives tomorrow. Zen beats already downloaded. I can see the dna of my boss br 1200 in it, which brings an emotional reaction..thankyou for putting up
Loopop, you should suggest that Roland do this for the MC101/707!
Yes. Please let me sample chop, preset browse, and make and edit sounds on the iPad!
I did, both in my original MC-101 video and when I saw this. Hopefully they'll listen. Zenology Pro is kind of close, but ideally indeed you could just edit everything directly connected to the device.
@@loopop I have worked for Japanese company long enough to understand that “we will study it” or “we will think about it” means NO! 😅
There's no money for manufacturers in updates. Most never provide meaningful updates. Even cell phone manufacturers only do it reluctantly and poorly. Most music companies just about never do, beyond bug fixes anyway.
@@SteveMeiers I’ve been pretty happy with what Arturia have done with the Microfreak and Morningstar Engineering do with the MC midi footcontrollers, BUT...I would agree with you for the most part.
New 1.80 firmware for this just dropped- they added the ability to export/import entire clips, add a fade-out at the end of a song during mixdown, pan vocal takes, added some new effects, and a handful of other things. And a sequencer undo/redo!
Wow. I'm sold.
Loopop seems to have got Roland's attention 🍸🎧✔️
Ohh I really hope this come to the MC707.
Sadly, the experience I've had, but it might be wrong, is that Roland rarely release updates things older than a year.
Roland have updated the MC series many times since launch. I'm an Akai Force owner. I had to wait a while too. Keep the faith.
Roland usually doesn't announce anything in advance. For example, nobody had any idea they would release a new plug out for the system 8, and then out of nowhere they surprise everyone
They made a huge firmware update to rc505 after years so who knows… but yes Roland “used to”… let’s hope they have learnt something after years of pissed off users.
Roland have been pretty good with updates lately, however they are few and far between, and drop out of the blue. But when they do drop updates, they tend to be pretty great
I hope something similar is coming for the mc 101 -_-
PLEASE!
Some will say this is a very cool step in the right direction, others will say it's redundant and defeats the purpose of having a hardware unit. I personally prefer working in a DAW, so I very much like this.
So I have to say, one thing that I really wish they would add is the ability to bring up the notes in a given clip to quickly clean them up in case you fat fingered something. Manually editing note data on the MV-1 itself is kind of annoying so it would be useful to quickly clean that up.
Thanks for the update! I'm having lots of fun with mine!
Yo! They need to add this to the MC-101 and 707!!!
Great to the point video 👍🏾- i’m really intrigued by the MV1- 1 because it’s more of a stand alone Sequencer than a sampler. 2 the price. There are a few things that could be improve upon, but for now it’s just what need. And if I can get my hands on an old ipad I’d be complete..
I appreciate the update! On the fence about buying this as it's on sale right now...I have a bit of GAS when the holidays roll around lol great video as always!
Certainly would have been nice if there had been a Jupiter (or Fantom, or MC) icon on the Zenbeats home page. Imagine if each track were a Part, each column represented Parts on/off, if there was a real mixer, if you could click on a clip to bring up Zenology Pro. Even on iOS or Android with ZC-1. What a good reason that would be to subscribe to Roland Cloud. Good to see the technology and know-how exists, though.
There isn't really a good reason to sub to Roland cloud, you'd end up paying more than you would if you just bought them at once. Whilst subscriptions are nice I just feel Roland cloud isn't worth it considering I personally don't want half the stuff in it, I just kind of want the 808 and Jupiter but there are already some free and pretty good emulations of them. The guys who designed the 808 made their own and it's a very in depth synth that I can see sound designers loving.
I absouletely agree with you. Jupiter xm needs to be integrated with zenbeats 5 rows ( each of them represenst one different parts) columns can be mixer. Volume on/off. So we can record much more than 64 steps, we can record our vocal which is connected to mic for vocoder (jupiter xm)
The thing is you can build a layout in zenbeats to control these but not plug’n play like this… Roland should implement song import from zen family to give users a true solution. Half backed things are PITA IMO.
I would LOVE to see support for the MC-101+707 on this, it'd be enough to make me buy an iPad
Could just buy an android tablet instead.
@@illford iPad is so much better suited for audio production than android offerings.
@@espertempo Unfortunately yeah. I love having an Android phone for moving files around, but all the best gear for MAKING music on the go is for iPads
@@illford 😂😂😂😂😂
@@espertempo By far. By leaps and bounds. Almost as if using an Android tablet is like using a meat tenderizer when you need a hammer. Android is a joke compared to iOS for music production. Facts.
This video is so helpful when considering buying the Verselab MV1
I wouldn’t call this “integration”. It’s one-way, as you say a screen for the MV-1. No enhancement that I can see for Zenbeats users. I wish it was a proper hardware controller, sort of like the Push is for Live. Instead of more screens, more buttons and hands on experience. With some real integration one might even get by the audio time limitation of the MV-1, using Zenbeats on the iPad for audio. But it seems like this only works in “MV-1 mode” where you can’t even add extra audio tracks and you have the same limitations as standalone.
This is awesome! I’d love to see it become available for the tr-6s
To me it makes a lot of sense ;) if you really need / want a screen, bring your own- if not, just make music. I chose the MV over the One because it doesn‘t have a fiddly touchscreen
I'm pretty sure that the MV-1's sole advantage over the MPC One is the really nice Zen-Core ROMpler engine
Coming from the MV-8800, the Verselab MV-1 is a very tough sell. On one hand I really want to like this, on the other hand it just doesn't come close to the (now slow&old) MV-8800 in terms of features. I wish they would make the whole thing less limited. The update in terms of hardware is great, the lack of a 'mouse + screen' editing everything is pretty bad. I can see why they targeted a Maschine MK3-like price point, but at the same time I don't see how it would be the better deal at this point. Don't get me wrong, I can see how it is a capable machine of making beats or even songs, which is great. But with the hardware experience they have, with the MV-8000 and MV-8800, MC-909, SP-808 and SP-606, I really would have wanted to see an improved version of the MV-8800. Modernised and up to current day standards. Not sure if the MV-1 could ever become that, seeing how much is still missing. And yes, I am aware the MV-8000 and MV-8800 became best after a handful of software updates. But come on.
I also would love to see a more modern MV-8800. Looking at the newer MPCs as a possible replacement.
I think the MV-1 was marketed badly. In fact it shouldn't even be called an MV because it's nothing like the MV8000 really. It's closer to the MC-101 and MC-707
definitely looks like a fun piece of gear!
Many thanks for this Information! I was unsure whether to buy the MPC Live 2 or the Verselab. Now that the "small screen issue" is fixed I can happily pick the Roland for its nice ZEN Synth engine. 👍
What about sample editing? And yeah, this would be nice for the 707 and 101, hell the 404 too!
The 404 is class compliant? If not, not possible (or hardly to implement due mfi and other apple restrictions)
Absolutely FANTASTIC, I would love this software option with say the Polyend Tracker or Elektron Model Samples.
Loopop another good review. There is also audio wave editing.I am hoping the next model up will have a touch screen doing what the ipad GUI can output and in the FX. 3D SRV and SDE presets from the 90s.Peter from Roland Verselab MV-1 Users Independent Group.
excellent video, thank you
I wish these kind of groove boxes support midi input from devices like launchpad and launchcontrol xl in the future so you can trigger and mix clips hands on. :)
The Verselab isn't designed for live performance with clip launching. The MC-707/101 are, and some folks have made custom Launchpad midi scripts for them. So there you go.
@@cooloutbeats isn’t designed but potentially useful. Look at how firmware updates revamped old wrkflows (the most powerful I’ve seen the rc505) so if they implement some little tweaks they will have an amazing workststion. Meanwhile we need to wait or purchase two expensive machines to do half of the things (as usual with Roland)
Neat, thanks for the quick show, LP! will be getting it :) ... so it is not really Zenbeats, more like a BYOS extension for the box, which is cool enough. But what VerseLab does if you don't go into new mode? Does it control Zenbeats as a midi controller, incl start/stop control, maybe sequencer?
Also, do you know if VerseLab qualifies and can run zen-core extensions on it (like Fantom, 707/101), for ex. Jupiter8?
Yeah don't buy Zenbeats. It's def net the best DAW on the market right now, it mighte be the worst since it's actually just a mobile DAW Roland bought called Stagelight
@@illford I got Zenbeats day one (having it made by others, probably still enthusiastic developers, not Roland, was one of the reasons to jump on it :) ZB does not yet reach usability of Korg Gadget flow, but replaces Cubasis for me (for AUv3). With VerseLab as a dedicated control surface to Zenbeats it may be the N1 DAW .... one day, maybe.
Plus its standalone hardware value (while there is no sign of dropping MV1 project into ZB as project and just continue to beefs up there).
That was a good idea by Roland to add this
The Verselab is destined to have its own Bad Gear episode in a couple years.
It's sadly only the screen that lets it down. The sound engine and workflow is fantastic, it's good to see that idea>mastered track option for beginners. I had an RM1X back in the day, lots of fun but grooveboxes have come a long way...
At first glance, the MV-1 is ticking all the boxes...
@@up7500 total 6 minute stereo or 12 min mono of audio. Thats a huge letdown.
Why? It's almost better in some ways than the MC707?
Maybe it will go on sale because nobody buys them.
That ridiculous old-school mouse-style scrolling does really look painful on a touch screen... Also no gain reduction metering on the compressor and limiter?!?
Roland somehow manages to make an app that feels strange on iOS AND Android.
However it seems to work better on iOS. Unfortunately I don’t have an iPad but only an android tablet.
No metering, you do it by ear like the truest musician! =X
I have been a professional live sound engineer for a decade, I know how to compress by ear. It's still nice to have the metering. Why do you think 99% of professional outboard compressors all come with metering?
@@ejmikk "=X" = 🤐😬😵
iPad support mouse so just add it and you will have the old MV8800… okno but you understand what I mean… ;)
Lets hope we vocal editing and sample editing in the future.
Interesting! Can I ask what cables you used to connect the iPad to the Verselab?
Trying to decide between this and an MPC or Force for recording external sources like guitar.
Nice! A new Loopop video.
Fantastic.
Oh ok, so what was supposed to replace a computer DAW, to get rid of the screen, is really efficient when it gets a screen....
I feel like they shouldn't call them replacements but alternatives because if it hasn't got VST support it's bit really up to modern saw standards
Exactly 😂 And then its a daw with a controller.
@@motoboy6666 yes and no . If It is Also works standalone and it is using his own internal processors s,memories etc. I can see a difference.
That's why I'll never stop loving the sp 404 and novation circuit. Those are the type of experiences I want out of a groovebox. They're instruments, not distillations of a daw.
You don't have to use it if you dont want. Roland are responding to customer feedback. You probably dont own any Roland products. Pathetic.
Looks great, but they have to add the possibility to work with your vocal settings too before I buy anything, if you add effects to you vocals, you can still change those after the recording or get the dry signa again if you want to bring them in to another DAW for vocal affects and mixing?
Anyone should correct me when completely wrong, but I don't think the MV-1 has a lot of non-destructible editing in there actually. And while it does allow for editing, it is unclear to me if it is limited to the vocal track itself or if it is flexible enough to edit the audio clip on a vocal track. Even worse, you can only adjust basic parameters to whatever the ZenCore engine provides in terms of the sounds. I would hope the external connection to PC or phone solves this, but again... seems pretty limited. Not to mention, sampling seems lacking on the MV-1.
As one of those who commented about the tiny display on the original review video, I'm still not seeing the value here. It seems like the money would go a lot farther on a PC and DAW. One song memory? Really? RAM is so cheap these days, wtf? Another great review though! It will save a lot of us some dinero!
Most people work on one song at a time, unless you’re an octopus with multiple brains.
@@savoirfaire8979 - Album oriented rock (AOR) is passé, you're right! I need to update my workflow accordingly.
WAOW !!! With time , it will overtake the Akai MPC ONE big time.... Brilliant thinking Roland.
with how fast Roland moves I doubt it. The MPC range is amazing at doing what it does. If Behringer made the Verselab MV-1 everyone would be laughing at them, don't know how Roland gets away with producing such crap for the price.
TYR Cars im intrigued why you think it’s crap?
Excellent, so a strong reason to buy both OP-Z and iPad, no cable needed to link them up😆
great feature to be able to use tablets . But why did they forget the vocals. Lets hope for the next firmware update
It looks like they missed an opportunity by not including a graphic waveform editor screen for dealing with audio chops - or did I miss that?
Please come to the MC-101!
Are Roland’s sounds, sequencer, or effects that much better than iOS apps that it warrants buying this thing? I like the idea but at this point why not a midi controller and gargeband, gadget, or beat maker 3?
@@ct6929
Awesome didnt know that. I'll try it oit
@@ct6929 iOS and Android and Desktop!
@@ct6929 Zenbeats isn't really the greatest though. It's not terrible just poorly laid out, don't like that I'm forced to get a Roland account either, on mobile it's pretty good but in PC it's s but behind as if you know the law you know it was first designed as a mobile app called Stagelight by a different company Roland just bought them ig
Dedicated hardware will always be the best thing. Over the years the accents float but the stability and ergonomics of hardware combined with software flexibility will always be the ultimate solution. If the PC/laptop hadn't killed the hardware DAW market (of which the Roland VS2480 was the ultimate incarnation) something like this would already have been available years ago. The real question is therefore (again): Do you want it enough to spend the extra money? :-)
@@marcbrasse747 I'm definitely a Hardware guy. I always have been. I have not been too impressed with what Roland is coming up with. I want to like it but there's always something that makes the workflow clunky
i hope they have the screen for MC-101 too
Mpc live will be my choice but great video
Im a little surprised we dont have an App. that allows us to add our phones to a midi keyboard so we can use the phone screen for visuals and any other media - fx, recording, even VST's.
Why on earth have Roland not used ZenBeats as a more efficient way to edit/chop melodic samples?!
Probably too labor intensive for it. As shown in the video the connection doesn't support effects for the vocals. Dunno but maybe too heavy for the app to deal with audio?
@@grazstarr zenbeats was stagelight was nekoOS… they need some time to integrated things if possible from the gear side. Zenbeats can do more, includding chops and other things. In fact they should able MV1 song import directly… atm it’s just glorified screen.
Awesome! Love the verselab. 👍 Edit:..get only a loading to mv-1 screen and it loads forever. Only once get a connection but it freezed. Do you maybe know the problem? ( ipad pro 2018, latest ios )
Thanks and I don't know - for me it didn't work with one USB C to A cable and did when I used a different one so maybe try that (beside force quitting the app and restarting). Also, did you update to 1.03?
@@loopop ,thanks a lot! It works now proper. 👍😊 I didn't have version 1.3 . Let's hope they make a app for the mc707 also. 🙏
Nice informative video My Question is I dont want to over buy on the tablet What can i get away with? Does it work on PC. software
MPC One for the win.
Great Video, the MV1 looks like a good production unit. However, so many people seem to whinge about a product they have bought. Do they not try out the unit before they buy or are they just stupid ?
Thanks! I don't think people here have bought it, I think they're giving an opinion based on the video or the product.
I really like the verselab, but I'm hesitant to purchase one, sometimes I feel it's just an overkill and expensive controller for Zenbeats. If you consider that you can use the software by itself, for free!
It’s amazing how much gets packed into such small footprints these days.
But I have to ask... at what point does one just get a daw instead?
I’d just prefer several devices that each do one thing well , rather than one device that does several things poorly.
Honestly, ZenBeats is a really good, simple daw. Could just use that.
@@Chris6741 It really and truly is, even if Roland doesn’t want to market it as the great DAW it is. I’ve stopped using everything else, Zenbeats has all I need for both softsynths and hardware (well, it could, as shown here)
@@RobertSaintJohn no it's not, Roland didn't even make Zenbeats, it's just s reskined version of Stagelight, and whilst it is very lightweight I find it a lot harder to use than other DAWs due to it being designed for both mobile and PC/Mac when they should've made the PC one first and then a Mobile one
@@illford Mobile or desktop, it’s the exact same interface. All that was said is that it’s a “good, simple DAW”. If it’s too complex for you, I don’t know what to say. And what difference does it make if it started with Roland or not? Does that somehow make it harder for you to use?
@@illford they come from Neko workstations so drawbacks aren’t from mobile design more than not taking fully potential of iPad due it’s lightyears ahead any other proposal (desktoo includded) so compromises made. Look at M+, the same. Ableton Push2? On and on… every proposal has drawbacks. It’s easy to adapt ourselves than expect brands get everything right since each person see it from its POV.
Can different tones be selected via the screen???
not currently
Hi! Tried it on my iPad 2018. The app is a bit buggy, but nice to change parameters faster than on the Verselab itself. What about pianoroll?
not yet, but I'm sure they're considering it
And it even works on a pc, when the mv-1 is the Audio interface of another DAW...
On my main screen there is my Cakewalk, and on the right one is my Zenbeats...(with no or another Audio interface)
Its so fucking amazing, this is the dirtiest Gearporn I ever watched....
It's weird how they on MC-707 were capable of adding a usefull screen but not on the MV-1.
Juno-DS61 doesn't cost much more, is also a groove synth, and it gets a far better screen.
I think it’s a smart move. No company in audio has the resources to manufacture a screen at the quality of Apple or Samsung.
So outsourcing it sort of to an iPad is an amazing idea. It’s easy to add an adapter to the device. And then you have a very very good touch screen better than anything they could manage in house affordable.
@@ryanpwm nobody is expecting an iPhone screen on the MV-1 or MC-101. All we're asking for in the 2020s is something more useful than a 2-line text display...
I get constant freezes with zenbeats on my PC when recieving MIDI clock ..and Roland support hasn't been much help
Better but I stil think it is rather limited in its scope. Roland dit this better 20 years or so ago with the VS-series hardware studio's. The ultimate version was the VS2480 which combined the stabilty and ergonomics of dedicated hardware with the versatility of screen and mouse operation. Then PC'/laptops brought the market for such machines to its knees. So my compliments to Roland for trying to revive the idea but they are still not quite there. The biggest limitation is that one can not do longer projects on this . I recently finished a 40 minute long 16 track WAV-quality project on my ancient VS2480. That wouldn't be possible on this thing. So if Roland want to do it right they shoudl release somethig lik ethat with in inbuilt multritrack sequencer. This is at best a song building box for the beat-generation.
Roland is making very hard to like them. I am truly curious to see how much of this is supported and current in 5 years. The VSynth didn’t fair so well. Or how about their fancy virtual mixing desk system
I mean, it's probably not the most economic thing to do to support somewhat old products I mean from their perspective might be a waste, in addition I usually find this is a normal issue for hardwares I absolutely hate the idea I have to plug into a computer or have WiFi to update it, seems a bit redundant
Loopop, does the Verselab have to be plugged into into the wall to be powered or can it be powered via the ipad's usb bus power?
It works my new iPad Air 4 via USB C - not sure about older iPads or iPhones - I tested with my iPhone 11 and it didn't give it enough juice, so probably not.
You can power the Verselab with the newer usb3 CCK adapter that has the lightning plug to charge the ipad, but not the older smaller usb2 CCK.
Thanks for creating an informative video. Do you know of an app like this that gives you a window like this into Ableton? … (like a software Push2)
Try Touchable
@@loopop hi and thanks very much for the quick reply. FYI .. I did a little research on Touchable and it looks like exactly what I had in mind …. however …. in one of the comments the writer indicated he believes that the creators of Touchable may have abandoned the project. A couple of people mentioned the app LK as a more stable Touchable alternative (although with fewer features).
@@djba good to know! I've not tried LK yet
Can the Mv-1 challenge the Akai MPC One since its about the same retail price?
Features and performance, which is more fun to work on... ?
I'm interested in this too as deciding between them from a musicians POV
@@danpelos The MV1 is definitely simpler/more straight forward. The MPC One workflow is much more complex. So from a musician POV, the MV1 is more accessible, and has a lot of vocal effects the MPC One does not have, but the MPC One has more tracks and a more complex sampler. Another alternative is the Toraiz SP16 from Pioneer.
Definitely the MV-1, it was going to buy the MPCX but its almost 4k Australian, this unit has everything I need as a singer and songwriter with minimal external purchases. I was lucky to get it before the lifetime key give away ran out ,now I have synthwave and synthpop and a whole lot more to choose from packwise,
instead of the stock R&B hip hop, which are genres I'm not interested in.
could use something like this for so many roland products lol
Surprised they didnt add the multi-clip launching. Seems kind of obvious.
Probably piece-meal-ing it out ala Apple.
Mv1 limitation more than zenbeats which has it since long ago…
Does it only work with a original apple Lightning cable, or can i use a cheaper one?
I've not checked - my iPhone rejects any non Apple cable unfortunately
@@loopop ok, thank you very much for your quick answer. Great tutorial by the way. Greetings from Holland.
nice touch interface ...any sample edit feedback ?
I just watched the 8 minute Roland video about the new features, and they show that you can edit ANY waveform. So I think it's in there? 🤷🏻♂️ I'll know more tomorrow when my unit arrives
Please link to that - you can't currently edit waveforms to my knowledge
@@loopop at 6:47 th-cam.com/video/ZpWuj-c3uxY/w-d-xo.html
(six forty seven is obviously meant for the one I linked, not your video haha)
That’s a bit misleading - editing audio is only available once you’ve mixed down into zenbeats, not for audio in mv1
It would have been nice for Roland to I enstall a internal Vocoder allowing one to do multiple harmonies and saving you track room for recording.
this has a harmonizer (better than a vocoder, you probably meant harmonizer anyway)
@@loopop yep, I will have to get it now,that is what I wanted to know.thanks
This is what I wanted from maschine. Imagine if you could offload cpu
very cool!
What is better - MV or MC series?
It's same sound engine inside - MV is more oriented for producing songs with vocal or audio tracks alongside sequences, MC for performance
It still needs disk streaming to take the time limit off loops/samples, it's the main gap in the market. Mpc don't hack it, deluge is too complex and the actual fx are too low quality.... where when will the daw replacer with full audio stems come!?!
Never because that's Hella expensive. Presuming you have a lot of projects the hard drive required would need to be massive or you'd be required to put in an SSD yourself. They don't do it to save space and reduce load time. It's easy for software to do but for hardware it works a bit differently. In addition no hardware will ever replace a DAW but rather be an alternative mainly because hardware probably won't be able to load VSTs one did that but no one wanted it I believe because it was expensive.
@@illford thanks, yeah. Well deluge can disk stream, mpc cannot. Blackbox can in theory but have big problems with the different SD types. And tbh, with SSDs much lower in price I would so badly invest in that to work DAWless for the stability that *should* come with a dedicated device... but hey, let's see if M1s make ableton super reliable under stress loads on low sample rate. I guess partly I love the idea of a 'gig brain' that you unplug from your studio and take on tour as laptops on stage there's always drama, stress or limitations...
I don't understand why Roland still insists on making new products in this day and age with that same 2 row screen.
What about sample editing? seems not to be supported...
true, not yet, and that would be great to have as well
When does this thing even come out?
It's out now
I want a groovebox to produce music standalone without a computer... buy an mv1... I want to produce it in an easy and comfortable way, but the screen is too small... connect your mv1 to a computer.... 🤔 find the mistake 🤷🏼♂️
it's all good until Roland drops support in a few years, "new bad gear" is what this is.
Mmm,strange that this support is afforded to the £600 MV1 owners but nothing for the £1200 JPXM or the £2000 JPX owners....cheers Roland.
Great
kind of defeats the object of going cpu free, it essentially becomes a weirdly convoluted and very expensive controller
No. It just provides a way to add a screen. Everything is still on the MV1. The MV1 is not controlling anything on the iPad.
I agree @xn-triq7607 I wanted to buy one, but if one can use the software by itself, don't see much of an advantage to buy the verselab. It's an expensive controller
I wonder why the vocals weren’t included?
My guess is they had to start somewhere, and it’s better to release something than wait until everything is finished. Plus vocals require a different, timeline based interface because they don’t sit on a grid
@@loopop MC-707 demo projects have vocals, so a grid is definitely doable, it appears to me.
@@loopop zenbeats has timeline… probably they didn’t add vocals yet due it’s handled by different chip than zencore which is what they are focused to sell in first place. After they get people tied to subscription zencore then other things maybe come…
You said android devices; starsky says it only works with mac/iPad. Is it confirmed it works with android? I'd be pretty sad to get it, only having android devices, and then discover android isn't supported. Thanks.
The ZenBeats software exists for Android but I didn't test it - it's a company claim - you should definitely ask the company to make sure. However, do you happen to remember the timeline in his video where he said that?
@@loopop sorry, didn't see this response. He said it at the 7:15 mark of his video, but perhaps that info has changed and he didn't update his video. I'll do more research before I jump on this device. Thanks.
Edit to add: I did see that the software exists. But it seems I would not be able to test whether the mv1 works with that software, on this device (Samsung tablet) unless I connected the mv1, since the icon won't show up unless it's connected. Maybe someone with a Samsung tablet and the device could verify if it comes up.
@@mauchkimberly I would like to know this as well. 🤔
i thought the single audio track was its biggest flaw, did they fix that? Seems silly like the TR8s not having unquantized sequencing. Unnecessary limitations
It has 16 audio tracks (subject to a 12 minute total sample time limit)
@@loopop Thanks for the reply, I just heard Nick Batt and Gaz bagging it. lol
I appreciate the content.
I highly respect them but it’s a mistake. I can understand why they made it though - I thought that first too since it has one voice track button
@@blaizewood1871 Unfortunately they often make mistakes based on cursory glances and rarely dig deeper, or correct themselves later.
Still no updated drivers for the v synth (At the time their flagship synth). I distrust Roland.
You mean the tiny Screen?
It's supposed to be a stand alone device if it's so difficult to page through the device than it's not for me.
I'd rather have this than just the device, can always buy a heap tablet if I want to do it
How dare Roland think we DAWless folks do not appreciate scrolling through menus on a tiny screen? Limitations breeds creativity!
I hope you're joking lol
Zenbeats(?) looks like Garageband.
Thank you, now I understand the structure in Garageband. It seems as if its as complicated as Roland Verselab. Maybe I save a lot of money if I put efforts in understanding Garageband than to buy a hardware which does nearly the same. Both are complicated and cumbersome.
Zenbeats is actually great. What makes 0 sense is what they call “integration” with the MV-1. Actually I was eager to see what MV1 would ADD TO Zenbeats, and it’s... nothing.
Zenbeats becomes an editing screen for the MV1, MV1 adds nothing to Zenbeats. What they’re doing with this product is actually quite surprising.
Sample editing of start and end points is terrible on the MV-1. Even holding shift button
It takes forever. It’s faster on the sp404
Or any other sampler. Even old Roland rackmount samplers. What were they thinking. BUY AN MPC ONE. people
This is not for sample based production .
Sample slice is also hit or miss
Why just they make a v 2 with the screen it would be dope asf
Wow
I'm dreaming with a big sister like mv-7 or something
That thing is wack......
So ... People who want to get away from the DAW can now use a DAW to control their groovebox, great
Exactly 😂. You buy hardware so you can play with the iPad screen. Instead of making a hardware controller for a daw they turn the daw into a screen. It’s weird thinking,
You own this product? Its called product development.
@@cds8137 are you Roland McDonald?.
Eventually through trial and error Roland may pack this powerful Zencore into a modern form factor that does it justice (and is affordable). That it first appeared inside a keytar was, in hindsight, a bad omen.
MC-707 rules, man.
The biggest flaw is the software. The separation of tracks and vocals is moronic, no daw does this. No proper time line arrangement. The view for the iPad makes a un polished turd , slightly buffed, but still not a shiny 💩
IDK. Seems like a flop.
Do you own one ? I took back my maschine+ as a singer songwriter this unit is way more suited
This is one of most ugliest products Roland release. I'm saying these as a user of the great MV-8800. Roland keep making regurgitated/castrated versions of their most beloved products for the mass with only maximum profit in mind and without any innovation. If you are hearing your customers dear Roland, please make an MV-9000 with a real opensource system (like Linux) and swap able CPU with optional DSP cards accelerators and for sure you can sell a lot of expansions and all your software thing without the ugly cloud and no internet connection needed. And if you wan to make a truly open SDK you can change the market forever.