"Literally, can you picture it?" All about Aphantasia with Tom Ebeyer on the Christina Crowe Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- In episode 33 of the Christina Crowe Podcast: Making the invisible VISIBLE, Christina (host) talks to Tom Ebeyer, Founder of the Aphantasia Network.
Christina Crowe is a Canadian Registered Psychotherapist and RELENTLESS mental health advocate. Christina believes great mental health information should be available to everyone and loves creating content that makes invisible things VISIBLE.
In this episode, the pair discuss:
What the heck is ‘Aphantasia’, and how do I know if I have it?
How does aphantasia affect the way we make sense of our experiences in life?
Aphantasia, grief and PTSD: Why traditional therapy might not work for aphantasics?
How can I tell my therapist or doctor what they need to do differently to work with my brain?
Listen to the episode: anchor.fm/chri...
Resources mentioned in the show:
Aphantasia Network: aphantasia.com/
The vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire: aphantasia.com...
Imagination Spectrum: imaginationspe...
Find Christina (CRPO 003908):
Website: digalittledeep...
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The phrase out of sight out of mind is such an easy thing for me since I can’t visualize anything whatsoever. My nightmares are horrific and vivid but have no visual memory of them when I awake. It’s almost like knowing I’m terrified and traumatized without the visual recall of why. I wonder if that explains why when on hallucinogens I never got great visuals but got gnarly auditory hallucinations. I also have no idea how to manifest things as everyone says visualization is key for manifestation.
Knowing I have Aphantasia is a game changer. I went to school for art and always found myself unable to draw or paint at the same level as my friends. Someone saying “put what you picture down on paper”, and I just didn’t understand. However I don’t know what to do with this information.
At 44 I’ve found out today! Researching and I’m blown away that people can actual see real images in their head 😩
Can’t help but feel robbed of an important aspect of life that everyone else has and I don’t 😩
Also can’t believe when people think of a song they can hear the actual song and the artist voice singing! I just hear myself singing the song and that’s it 😢
I found out a year ago at 45. I've been depressed ever since. I feel like I'm not alive and conscious as others are. These people seem to have God like abilities. My daughter and mother also have it. My daughter wasn't devastated like I was. I had her do some exercises, like closing eyes and trying to remember what she was just seeing. After burn images from staring at lights. Visualizing walking around in her mind, which is like walking in darkness yet knowing where everything is. She started experiencing green Shockwaves visually at night that would persist for awhile when she opened her eyes. This lasted months and she got annoyed with trouble sleeping. She also saw some other images. I've been able to see faint images while meditating. The oddest thing is what I've seen is not what I've been thinking about. It's exhausting. One curious thing is I can Visualize spatially where objects are. I suppose most aphantasia can do that otherwise they would have an obvious disability and jt wouldn't have taken so long for this condition to become widely known.
On the Bright side, ppl with aphantasia have a huge advantage：they don't have to recall vivid image of saddness from memory. ppl without aphantasia (while not a sociopath at the same time) can have a very hard time to withdraw from unfortunate events such as losing loved ones since the image of them keep recurring in their brains.
Also, it is much easier to enlighten ppl with aphantasia on dharma of Buddha. They are much "pure" in one of their five senses (esp. 意根) in buddhist terms, which can lead to faster grasp of principles of mindful meditation.
I have aphantasia and CPTSD (maybe connected but I'm not even sure when I lost my memories) but I'm also an HSP (highly sensitive person) I can't see memories or hear anything, but I FEEL them and it's also a sense of just 'knowing', but no visual image. It was very frustrating for a long time in therapy trying to connect visuals to a feeling. No therapy model was working for me, EMDR, IFS or anything requiring visualization. Through sheer will and inner work, and really the key to it all, LEARNING that I have aphantasia, I have finally broke free from a TON of unnecessary negative feelings. I'm not beating my head trying to shake loose memories that I now know will never come, thinking there's something wrong with me. It actually answers so many questions I had! What a blessing to finally know what makes me feel so different from others! I've always felt like I was given a different map in life than the rest of the world... knowing that I'm aphantasic has shifted my vision. It's like you've taken the old map and handed me the correct one, written in our language and walked me into a community of my people. Thank you so very much Tom (and Christina 😏👋) for making these videos and educating more people. I wish more therapists were aware because it would have helped tremendously!
Agree with the ball concept, I can't imagine anything
Wow! I'm 50 yrs old and I only realized in the last year or so that other people were literally able to visualize things in their mind's eye. I too interpreted that instruction of "close your eyes and imagine..." as more of a metaphor than a literal task. I had no idea until watching this video that auditory imagery was even a thing... I had no idea people can also quite literally hear songs/voices as they would sound in real life vs. my own thought/memory version of them. My memory has always been terrible... sometimes I have no memory at all of past events that friends will recall (we're talking 30+ yrs ago, but they remember clear as day) and I was just diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) last year. Fascinating stuff!! I will admit, I'm a little jealous of those who can conjure up this imagery in their mind's eye.
This also explains to me why it seems like my empathy levels are so heightened. I can’t stand watching movies/shows or hearing/reading stories about people suffering physically, or emotionally - the physical suffering seems to bother me most. Because I can’t visualize in my mind's eye or visualize memories, my memories or my imaginings are based on feelings & concepts. Therefore, seeing/hearing scenes or stories where others are suffering brings on such intense emotions… I don’t physically feel what they’re feeling, but I feel the emotions of what they’re feeling/ or the emotions that that physical experience would create for them. It’s extremely disturbing and overwhelming. And on occasion, I've found those feelings to linger and be invasive in the same way that the invasive images were described in this video.
I loved friction book the only time I can get something similar to mind eye after a few hours of reading none stop it feel like you are there in the scene watching play out. And i'm 100% Aphantasia. It is like experiencing dreaming
I am a senior citizen now and just discovered I have this condition. For years I have discussed with my husband, high I.Q. guy with photographic memory who can recall the first 30 letters of PI......for whatever thats worth.....he sees in elaborate details events, plans projects, etc. using his inner visuals; I would say I don't see anything and can't picture a red apple. I KNOW what it looks like but no visual. This handicap is a blessing too; so much I don't care to recall in detail; and does that visualization keep people up at night? good sleep is worth the issue of aphantasia; I am accomplished, two good careers; graduated from Purdue many years ago; on Deans list; missed getting into Mensa by two points! So in a way, a blessing in disguise.
I found out this week too, my mom and uncle (that are on their 70s ) have it too but not my sister! 🤷♀️ It opens my mind to understanding the world in a different way because its clearly build for people who can see things in their mind and not for us! 😅 also my mom thinks It crazy and people are lying and no one can really see anything 😅😂😂😂
I also have aphantasia and have struggled to imagine images in my mind. However, recently I did an exercise that helped me experience the color blue for the first time in my life. It was such a wonderful and exciting moment for me, and I'm so grateful for the experience. I hope that others with aphantasia can also find ways to improve their ability to imagine and experience mental images.
What was the exercise? Would it be possible to explain it please?
20:58 I have ADHD and aphantasia and I don't find it to be a similar journey. When in 2022 I was diagnosed with ADHD it finally gave me some explanation why it is so difficult for me to start any task or any project and that I need to have "now or never" mindset (I bought corkboard in last year and it is still on the floor and not on the wall) but as soon as I got diagnose I wanted to move asap to action and not to dwell on that I have to work harder than people without ADHD. I even stopped checking r/ADHD after I read thread "I like to sing when I am taking a shower, is it an ADHD trait?". Some people are so focused on having this disorder that they will connect almost everything with it.
When I found out that I have aphantasia I was more like "oh, is it a thing? interesting" then my impulse took me over and I went into hyperfocus and read all articles on aphantasia network and now I am watching all videos on this channel because I find it interesting. So the only similarity I see is that - when in December 2021 I hopped into ADHD rabbit hole I was gone for like 1 month (videos, books etc.). So since this Monday I am in similar mode. I am reading and watching stuff about aphantasia. Of course it is a personal thing and everyone will have different reaction.
It would be great to have someone like Mark Solms working on aphantasia research but it is just a dream.
I have aphantasia and have had it since the beginning, but I feel like I have better memory than most. I think for some of us our subconscious does hold the image somewhere, and we can access facts from that image without "seeing" it again.
Like I would totally recognize if somebody was wearing the same outfit as last time I saw them, and somebody else recognizing this would never strike me as different.
When I found out this term couple of months ago I did some “study” on my relatives and friends and found out I have no imagination at all, nothing from each sense I can imagine. My mother only miss taste others she can imagine, she was even more surprised than me :) some things clicked when I know I think different.
My strength always been problem solving I can connects dots very quickly, I can “count” all the possibilities automatically and get the decision.
Discovering these invisible differences can be quite illuminating. Thanks for sharing!
I just explain it to people that my memories are in MSDos format instead of Jpegs or Videos. My wife sees VIVID pictures in her head and her PTSD from traumatic experiences is so much more problematic and traumatizes her all over again.
This is a useful analogy. Sorry to hear about your wife's experience with vivid pictures. Seeing pictures isn't all upside. Especially when the pictures are involuntary and outside of conscious control.
I found out a year ago at 45. I've been depressed ever since. I feel like I'm not alive and conscious as others are. These people seem to have God like abilities. My daughter and mother also have it. My daughter wasn't devastated like I was. I had her do some exercises, like closing eyes and trying to remember what she was just seeing. After burn images from staring at lights. Visualizing walking around in her mind, which is like walking in darkness yet knowing where everything is. She started experiencing green Shockwaves visually at night that would persist for awhile when she opened her eyes. This lasted months and she got annoyed with trouble sleeping. She also saw some other images. I've been able to see faint images while meditating. The oddest thing is what I've seen is not what I've been thinking about. It's exhausting. One curious thing is I can Visualize spatially where objects are. I suppose most aphantasia can do that otherwise they would have an obvious disability and jt wouldn't have taken so long for this condition to become widely known. This is a disability despite what people say. Just because you can function in society doesnt mean not having an incredible mental ability isnt a disability.
We are truly sorry to hear about the distress you've been feeling since discovering your aphantasia.
Aphantasia is indeed a unique cognitive experience, and it's essential to remember that everyone's brain processes information differently. While some people might have vivid mental imagery, others, like you, might have a more abstract or non-visual way of processing information. It doesn't make one way of thinking superior or inferior, just different.
It's interesting to hear about your daughter's experiences and your own during meditation. The brain is incredibly complex, and even within the realm of aphantasia, there's a spectrum of experiences. The spatial visualization you mentioned is a testament to this. Many with aphantasia can navigate spaces, remember locations, and have a sense of spatial awareness without the need for vivid visual imagery.
It's valid to feel that this is a disability, especially if it impacts your well-being and sense of self. However, it's also essential to recognize that many people with aphantasia lead fulfilling lives, find unique ways to problem-solve, and have rich inner worlds, even if they're not visually oriented.
If you haven't already, consider seeking professional support. Speaking with a therapist or counselor can provide you with coping strategies, a deeper understanding of your feelings, and a space to process your emotions. Keep in mind many healthcare professional don't yet know of aphantasia. Here's a resource that can help with that introductory conversation: aphantasia.com/article/strategies/therapy-and-aphantasia/
Your journey of self-discovery and understanding is valid, and your feelings are genuine. We hope that with time, support, and introspection, you can find peace and acceptance in your unique experience.
Don't stress about it - we've never had it, so there's nothing to miss. According to the data, the spacial brain system is separate from the visual system - it seems even though we can't visualize, we can detect distances. The other thing we have (which is bizarre) is better than normal color memory. We can't remember pictures, but we are great at detecting colors.
Look on the bright side - we are immune to PTSD, we generally don't stress over problems, we are resistant to the damaging effects of dementia and old age. We have phenomenal abstract thinking skills and we are generally happy people. Imagine how bad it must be for regular people to lose their memories as they get older? It must be very traumatic and confusing...well, it's a walk in the park for us, we have lived with that our whole lives, we already have the coping strategies in place so old age doesn't hit us with the same impact. Would it be nice to visualize? For sure...but I'm fairly happy in life and I don't think I would be the same person if I could visualize.
It's not all doom and gloom.
I have had extreme aphantasia from childhood. I had a "commonbook" that I wrote my ideas in. I don't have long term memory to speak of and I don't have feelings since most feelings are connected to images. So two years ago I tried to learn a second language it took over a year to just remember what a few words. So I took a memory course online to see if that helped, no it didn't do a thing BUT that is where I discovered the word aphantasia. So I assume me always failing spelling and other tests as a child was caused by aphantasia?
I nerely discovered today that I have thid! I just asked my 9 year old daughter if she can imagine an apple in her mind? Can she see an image of it? She said it is just black. My son could imagine and see it. Kids are more aware than we give them credit for. I predicted this outcome with my kids! My daughter is a lot like me 🤷♀️
I've been curious about others with multi sensory aphantasia (like myself), I even wonder if others experience feelings as part of their memories. Because I don't experience anything other than concepts and explain my memory as more of a graph database. My memory experiences that have been classified/categorised into concepts and relationships between those concepts. ButI haven't met another person with the same aspect yet. So was interesting to hear Tom Eyeber's way of describing their experiences as I can relate to much of it but have a differing way of describing some of it.
Thanks for sharing Daniel; we're glad you could relate to your experiences and curious to learn more about how you'd describe it?
I’ve always been rather detached and almost clinical with regards to feelings and memories.
@@AphantasiaNetwork most of my experience is in my previous message. Everything is abstracted to concepts and their relationships. Never able to be experienced as senses, even feelings are just tags on a memory. This doesn't stop me feeling something actively for the active current state is changed I've time through experience, but a previous experience is never revisited as senses or emotionally so it only ever has one chance to make an impact. I'm not very good at explaining these things though and I may have comorbidity with other things yet to be determined such as autism.
I have total aphantasia and cannot imagine emotions. I know that I was doing something I enjoyed, but I can no longer feel it or tell how it really felt. But talking about a bad memory or thinking about it for a longer time and in detail can put me in a mood where I can feel a bit sad, for example. But that’s a real feeling according to the mood, not an imagined or remembered or relived feeling.
@@-cirad- that is exactly what’s Im talking about. When my wife talks about a situation, on a physiological level her brain literally “thinks” she’s experiencing it in that moment. Because she is the total opposite. She can recall things in almost 3D. It’s super hard to explain to someone that creates pictures in their head whilst reading, when your a person that not only doest, but spent their whole life thinking the phrases “picture this in your head & in your minds eye” were just figures of speech. Only to find out at 40, that no as a matter of fact there are out there that have movies playing in their brains at will.
After I found out about aphantasia, I asked everyone in my family and it turns out my mom is also aphantasia.
Interestingly many of the leading aphantasia scientists believe it's hereditary. Still waiting on the large genetics study to confirm this. Our AMA with Dr. Zeman touches on this.
I knew I could not visualize although did not know what it was until 69.
I can visualize them not visualizing thats kind of crazy
I might be hypophantasic
picture a ball on a table..........
i can't find a table.
I can hear and smell things, no pictures, baseball is leather and grass smells, crack of a bat, the sound of sliding into a base, and fact wise i know the grass is green but theres no image.
They're probably just lying to us saying they can see in their imagination.
Extortianate amount to ask for people to join the aphantasia network, if it was a reasonable low amount or free then you will get a bigger research target and get a better idea on how to help those with it, people need to share their stories, all you are getting is a false result and not looking at the wider picture.
Hello Mav1969, you can subscribe to our newsletter for free, read articles, watch recorded events, and even join our public discussion board at no cost. Aphantasia Network is not a funded endeavor; membership is the only way we can continue to operate and provide these resources to the community.