I have both, and honestly it was absolutely more earth shattering to me to realize everyone else was seeing actual pictures in their minds when they said "picture this" or "visualize this" - I felt like people had this incredible super power and I had been sitting there like an idiot thinking all of those were metaphors. Learning I had ADHD was much easier to swallow
nod. I close friend has hyperphantasia. We saw Villanieu's (sp??) Dune, and he absolutely got more from the experience than the vibes I walked away with.
Not being able to understand why you cant picture or hear anything is heart breaking 100! I once heard voices for a few seconds tho, it was like a ghost? Only ever happened like twice in my life, shit scared the fuck outta me! I swear i was hallucinating but i was fully aware of myself. And trying to get actual information on aphantasia, isnt easy! Like wheres the test and videos on this? Not like its a problem for people who can use these techniques or w.e you call them. Imagination! To me it sounds like you are all on some crazy shit! And i want some!
but do you have a narrator of your life constantly yapping and yapping, and when it stops describing what is currently happening to you, it's to tell you how stupid you are, and how much it can't believe you just did/said that?
Same here! I wish the imagery would stop sometimes. The other day, I couldn't remember the term "sun-tan lotion" but my brain sent be thousands of images of bottles of different colours, and lying on the beach, and sun beds, and memories of holidays and the sensation of sun on my skin and how I didn't like this oil-based version I once had that came in a brown bottle but I did like this cream spray that came on a blue bottle. It's like, thanks for all that, but what I really wanted was just the three words "sun-tan lotion" (sun-block for any Americans).
This, however when I need to imagine something ON PURPOSE in the middle of my executive block, I literally can’t see anything except maybe most banal images and plots. Like in a moment I lose any ability to productively phantasise. As a student of cinema school I suffer from that a lot. It mostly occurs when I feel extreme anxiety (for example, anxiety to fail with my “dumb” idea), so when it hits me hard I turn from one of the most creative persons in my class to an absolute blockhead.
when my husband died I eventually sought the help of a psychologist who soon diagnosed me - at age 63 - with ADHD. It was an amazing moment in my life when I could understand my lifelong history of underachievement. At the same time I was devastated to realize that I had so little visual memory of my beloved husband who I had spent so much of my life with and knew so well. I realised that other people who hardly knew him could recall times and events which they shared with him far more vividly than I could. My memories were of vague 'snapshot' images of him -- often based on actual photographs, rather than video' style recollections of events or just everyday life. It has been a great sadness to me and something which I have felt so guilty about and not wished to tell other people about. I had never thought of it as being related to the ADHD, but rather some horrible fault in my relationship with him which I could not identify or understand.
I have aphantasia and ADHD. I had no idea other people think in pictures and feelings- my internal monologue is going nonstop all the time. That being said- not being able to visualize something does not diminish my capacity to imagine something. If you ask me to visualize a red triangle, I can’t “see it”. But, I know what red is and I know what a triangle is so I can imagine it. I can manipulate an object or idea in my mind, but it is throw “knowing” (for lack of a better word) and through “seeing” with my mind’s eye.
It is my opinion that you (and me) are in fact experiencing the same thing everyone else is (most people) it's just that we *describe* it differently. I believe this is a semantic difference not a real difference. I'm like you. I describe my experience as "I can't 'see it', but I can see it sort of. I can describe every detail of it, but it exists somewhere abstract, it's not like it's an object right in front of me." I believe a related topic is this: Where in physical space would you say your mind is? Like, relative to your body. Where in physical space, approximately what direction, is your mind/your thoughts?
@SolidSiren I'm not sure that's the case. Looking at aphantasia or vivid imagery testing, it speaks about how "vivid" an image is in your minds eye. This scales from 5 (as vivid as if you are actually seeing it) to 0 (you don't see an image but "know" you are thinking about the object). It sounds like you both aren't seeing any vivid imagery to speak of but rather just "know" you are thinking about something. For what it's worth, I'm the same.
@@Lasidar Thanks for the reply. I know about the scale of vividness. But after talking with my family and friends at length about it, I still think people are just using different words to describe a similar experience. You say it sounds like I'm not seeing any vivid imagery, but I am. I just say it differently. I can describe every aspect of the apple, or a dragon, or a 3 headed cow. 🤔 I find this topic very interesting. I wonder if people with aphantasia dream quite differently from others? What do you think?
@@Lasidar yep. can confirm the way these folks are talking it's clear they don't know what a mind's eye or mental imagery actually is. reading the comment about manipulating a red triangle, I see an actual red triangle briefly spinning around. It's not in front of me. It's not at all indistinguishable from a real object it's very clearly an imagination. But I do see it for a moment.
I have hyperphantasia- and extremely long/vivid retention of imagery. My unattenuated hyperphantasia causes executive dysregulation and ADHD-like symptoms . . . because I sometimes cannot devote more than about 5% of cognition to intentional/engaged thinking. In fact, I’m taking two ADHD meds daily now . . . 40mg Vyvanse and 150mg bupropion twelve hours apart. My primary diagnosis is autism spectrum disorder which often causes the findings of allistic human subject studies to be the opposite of my neurology.
Look into toxic heavy metal theory for what's causing these mental disabilities. Depending on concentration, type and location of these metals in your brain they can cause either ADHD, Autism, Aphantasia and so on...
Man I think I might have something like that. Clicked on this video as I have assumed for a while that I have undiagnosed ADHD, but i'm being constantly barraged with imagery as well as an inner monologue that won't shut up (I guess that's normal). The imagery isn't hyper real though, it's very unfocused and it takes a lot of concentration to 'render' it photographically, so I get a lot of flashing and warping generally that looks similar to early AI videos.
This was incredibly validating. I have ADHD and aphantasia and it makes so much sense that the two could be connected. I suppose if anyone looking to study this needs a case study, hit me up. I'm already working on an unrelated dissertation, so it couldn't be me!
As someone with ADHD, my ability to visualize things - even mechanical (with moving parts) is really good. I can build stuff mentally to know how it will look when I create things. I'm just one person so take it for what it's worth.
One of the first things I wondered when I learned of aphantasia years ago (once I got over the fact that others actually experience imagined sensory information in their mind) was "is this why my working memory is so non existent?". Another was "is this why I and many other autistic people didn't do imagination play as kids?"
I have a severe ADHD, and let me tell you that seeing image is my greatest talent, I can imagine a billion things so vividly like they're almost real in a second! But self-motivation is another game, always have to trick myself with external motivation my internal motivation is not functioning...
I'm not sure u understood any of the video. It is the inability to use that imagery to guide ones own behaviour which is inhibited. Not the imagery itself.
I was very excited to see this video, thank you. I would love more scientists to look into SDAM - Severely deficient autobiographical memory as well which can co-occur with aphantasia - I personally struggle with both and it has a big impact on my life. Not many drs or therapists know much about them and more research is needed.
Now that’s something that I find very relevant and true as well. Do you have certain time periods in your life that you don’t or barely remember and if so how long are they ago on average or can you explain in a little more detail? Thank you very much in advance
So most of my children are adhd / autistic and I had to do a whole lot of paperwork and I really really struggled going back to when they were younger and remembering all the details. I have also been very big for photographing and looking back on them and I worked out that this was me compensating for the deficit. While on the journey for my children I went down the rabbit hole and was watching lots on neurodiversities and came across a videos on aphantasia and I was like wait what.. People actually see things in their head, I always thought it was a figure of speech. Then I went on a deep dive on that after my husband said he can see and adapt things in his head and came across SDAM, it was a very emotional experience working out my brain isn't like the norm. I can recall some photos but not the actual event it self. There are a few stories that I have told consistently about my childhood and can again retell but not relive. There is so much of my life missing from my memories which leaves me feeling pretty empty.
@@toni-leepadman3777 I can understand what you wrote so well and this is an incredibly hard realization in addition to all the other struggles caused by ADHD. It makes you wonder how incredible the life of people who don’t have these neurological disadvantages must be in so many ways. Just imagining that people can actually relive the most beautiful memories in their heads and see it crystal clear as if those people and memories would be right in front of them again and people with ADHD cannot experience this their entire life - is very sad, tragic and hurtful
I believe it to be separate to adhd, my husband was meant to be tested as a child but because he was succeeding they decided not to proceed with testing, he very much struggles to this day, even though he is very smart. He needs a lot of help setting up strategies to help with the executive functioning which he's been implementing and trying to perfect for years now. He's not willing to look into medication and believes he'll figure it out so yeah he's currently working on a goal 75 hard and he's determined to achieve that. He is more on the hyperphantasia side of the scale.
And I'm really sorry about the hurt that this thing sdam causes you. It can be a tough road when you first come to realise. I try so hard to focus on what's happening around me sometime hoping so badly it will cross over and become a memory that I can treasure. I look at my children who are so close to becoming adults/teenagers and just wish I could remember their faces when they were younger, I can't hear their voices either 😢
I am 34 years old, I already know about aphantasia because I realized a few years ago that despite dreaming with images, when I try to form images in my mind consciously I encounter enormous difficulty, or I simply can only create an internal dialogue... I was diagnosed with ADHD recently and I have also been looking into the possible implications that these two conditions may have on each other. I read that mental imagery requires initial processing in the frontal and parietal cortex before recruiting other areas of the brain
Although there are no journal publications on ADHD and aphantasia, I did find KE Bates' PhD thesis covering Mental Imagery and Visual Working Memory development in ADHD children, "Picture this: an investigation of the neural and behavioural correlates of mental imagery in childhood and adulthood with implications for children with ADHD," which found ADHD children exhibited typical development patterns. That obviously shouldn't deter anyone else from investigating further, but I wanted to shout out this person for their efforts even though their specific investigation relating to ADHD is not published in a journal.
I was diagnosed with severe combined type ADHD and Asperger’s in 2021 at 46 years old. About 18 months ago I learned about Aphantasia and discovered I have full aphantasia across all 5 senses. I have zero capacity to conjure up images, smells, tastes, sounds or touch. I do not have the ability to retain memories and generate emotions from previous ‘lived’ events in any way at all. Despite not being diagnosed as neurodivergent until 46 I have always known I was different from the vast majority of people in many ways, and my ADHD and ASD diagnosis helped me understand that. However, I had no idea that I was unusual in what I now understand to be my total sensory aphantasia. It’s been very traumatic to realise how much this impacts me.
I've been with this channel since its inception. How thrilling it is to see you inch up to almost 100,000 subscribers, Dr. B! It's remarkable that so many of us around the globe can tune in for free to learn more about ADHD from one of the world's leading experts. The internet has brought plenty of rubbish into our lives but here we have an example of knowledge -- and humour! -- being disseminated to anyone who can be bothered to watch and listen. What a blessing! Thank you.
I'm a psych undergrad and was literally thinking this is something I could base my final year research project on. I also have ADHD (diagnosed at 47) and aphantasia.
Fascinating. I've always had both ADHD and aphantasia. I do have the capacity for (rather weak/muted) visualization, but it requires conscious effort/concentration and are not naturally occurring. Learning via imitation isn't an issue. Recalling sensations, regardless of type, most certainly is. Specific sights, smells, sounds, textures ... I simply cannot encode these in memory. At best, I can identify sensory stimuli, e.g., the smell of coffee, but I am wholly incapable of recalling that smell. I know what my wife said today, but not verbatim. In lieu of sense-based memories, I instead imprint conclusions of internal analyses, affective responses to stimuli, & general outlines of narratives. I definitely have less detail in memory, episodic or otherwise as mentioned at 6:40 timestamp. Alternatively, conceptualizing abstract concepts seem to easy for me. Writing is a painfully slow process - I lose my thoughts far faster than I can pen/type them. Likewise, mnemonics memory tricks are materially equivalent to brute force memorization. Likely exacerbated by interaction of aphantasia with ADHD, I lose my train of thought quite often, and I estimate that I can only reliably hold two concurrent discrete items in mental queue with any true ... resolution? detail? Two items with detail, 4 fairly vague, or up to about 7 very vague at most. Learning a new phone number is an active exercise in imagining how I'd move my fingers when actually calling, where the numbers are on a 10-key pad, not what the numbers look like. I never considered these two conditions may be linked, only that it's problematic when both are present. Aphantasia forces me to lean on nonverbal working memory as it cuts out access to verbal working memory, and ADHD by definition undermines the reliability of nonverbal memory.
Reading your comment was like having someone spell out my own experience with Aphantasia and ADD/ADHD. Even down to the capacity to hold information and how that affects the clarity of the info, the use of spatial "imagination" to remember numbers on a keypad, and the tendency or adaption of whittling info down to conclusive or summarized chunks of info in order to process and retain the information. Which works well for problem solving and solution-based tasks...and how those limitations can get in the way of being detailed, since we have little to grasp on to when it comes to verbal memory and visual memory place holders.
Man, you know what study I would love is an examination of the mental adaptations of aphantasia because this video really kneecapped my mood. I was kind of hoping for that- but I just got more info about my nerfs- which is kind of validating but needed to be in a better headspace to digest this better.
I didn't know that NOT seeing clear images in your head wasn't typical for a long time, I have to wonder if the rate of Aphantasia is much higher because I know many people who also didn't know that. I have ADHD and that goes with poor sleep habits that have probably destroyed my memory "skills", so with my very very diminished ability to imagine things and all that, I'm basically the world's useless public witness in a court case lol. It's very nice to know what causes my struggles covered in 1:20. I have non-stop monologue in my head but I'm not mad that I can't see vivid images, because thanks to that I have no reaction to traumatic visual memories and it probably will aid me in being a therapist someday. That said, having no imagination as a 3D artist is...very difficult to say the least.
Thank you for this! I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year or two ago, and found out about aphantasia soon after at a research conference. I was chatting with one of my professors about it when we got back and I remarked that I thought it was strange that the brain scans (? I'm not sure what they were, looked more like a 3D topographical map made up of bars than a CT scan) showed a higher amount of activity in those with aphantasia than without; and he said it might be along the same lines of how people with ADHD ironically need stimulants in order to reduce hyperactivity symptoms. Along with that, my siblings all seem like they also have aphantasia and 1/2 of us are diagnosed ADHD (other 1/2 undiagnosed but definitely show symptoms). However, one of my friends is diagnosed ADHD, but experiences normal amounts of internal imagery-- so it might not span over ALL adhd cases, but it may be linked to a specific subset of adhd-- like hyperactivity vs inattentiveness, or executive functioning as you pointed out. I think there's some real merit here for a study. AND I'm taking my research methods/lab classes during the Spring 2025 semester, so I think I know what my study is going to be on if one is needed for my class! :D
Ah, my second favourite topic. I was training in some hypnotherapy after being diagnosed with ADHD and was extremely frustrated with the central tenet of visualisation. It had become apparent that people actually SEE something when they're asked to visualise, and that seeing blackness was not a thing. I posed this exact question re ADHD and Aphantasia 2 years back to the Aphanstasia forum but it was also recognised as an unstudied area so it seems it hasn't moved much. It made sense that at least some ADHDers have co-occuring Aphantasia given that it all involves neural networks. Where I may differ on the memory component (though I like the WM connection) is that we have to differentiate between long term memory and descriptive detail because there is a tendency to link Aphantasia to SDAM. I have an almost extreme Aphantasia yet have an unfortunately excellent AM - BUT this AM lacks detail (I can remember scenarioes but can't recall the scene in a picture detail - I "think" the scene but wouldnt be able to tell what clothes i was wearing, what the scenery looks like etc).
I hear you! Also have aphantasia & ADHD and trained in hypnotherapy - and also in visual methods! At some point I realised I'm not the only person in the training who just cannot tap into the visual and other imagery processes (I just thought I was a really 'difficult subject' for a while!). Got so interested in the subject that - as a researcher by background - I started my own research project into the topic 😆 (#helloADHD) So yeah, now I'm on a mission to educate the hypnotherapy community about aphantasia and how we can best work with aphantasics so that they don't have to go through the - why is this not working for me??? - thing 🙃 BTW, amazing that you have really good autobiographical memory - can I ask if you have aphantasia across all internal senses (so no ability to visualise, touch, smell, taste or hear internally) or is can you tap into one or more of them (apart from the visual)?
@@paulinatrevena I'm not sure that I always find my AM useful, because I am sure you can see how that and ADHD together can be challenging 😂 I would say that I am total Aphantasic (with qualifier) because visualisation seemed like an "obvious" deficiency given its widespread use but I was even more gobsmacked that people experienced their other senses realistically. So even in hypno training I always assumed that when they used the other senses it was metaphorical. The qualifier is on hearing because I am not sure what people mean with an internal voice. I have a perpetual inner voice that I have to distract when I need to focus but have never really felt like I "hear" it in the way people talk about sound - I "sense" my constant chatter in the same way that I try to explain my memory. Its not discrete senses (I see, hear or smell actual) but an abstract "sense". My hypno facilitator tried to "prove" that we all "see" by asking me to describe my house and number of windows - and I did but I explained its not that I am "seeing" it but that I am "sensing" it... And there we have just how difficult it is to use language to explain something that we don't really have words for...sorry for the essay.
Dr tal vez le sirva a Usted o a alguien mi experiencia...tengo 60 años y cuando tengo sueños no sé si son reales o no...de hecho tardo ya despierto como 30 segundos en reaccionar que era sueño...y muchas veces al volver a dormir sigo soñando el mismo tema 3 o 4 veces seguidas...es cansado!!😢
Oooh how fun. I got an email just these days from the study questionnaire on Aphantasia and Hyperphantasia, which I (an ADHD brain) participated in. I'm on the "hyper" end of this. So cool to hear back from that topic!
I'm 70 and have both ADHD and Aphantasia. In high school, however, I scored super high on that test where you rotate weird shapes in your head - they called it "abstract reasoning" then, but I don't think that is the current definition. I've heard this is well-known, but no one can figure out why. I have always been word and language-oriented and that is mostly how I think, but a situation occurred recently where the written word failed me, and I was forced to switch to visual methods of communicating - video and graphics. Suddenly my dormant visual mind seems to be springing to life and I am able to form images much more easily. Not completely sure what this means but it could be like a sense you didn't use getting better when another sense shut down.
It's very interesting to me. I don't think I have any aphantasia, but I know my visual imagery was very scattered and tough to focus on before medication, and still I struggle to tell if I'm visualizing or just mentally describing, but it's made a huge impact on my ability to recall if I locked the front door, where I put my phone, etc. Alternatively, it sometimes feels like there's so much vivid imagery from the past decades I can't hone in on a single one because it's shifting and erratic. Either way, I did notice in myself and have seen anecdotes online, that spending extended time in VR environments where you can observe a lot of interesting and novel details (e.g., Skyrim, No Man's Sky) helped to temporarily give much more vivid mental imagery and even added a layer of depth that wasn't there before. I would be very curious to see if there is some foundation in the heightened focus and sensory novelty afforded by VR has some short term effects on these mechanisms.
I'm a 60-year old ADHDer and mental images, often incredibly detailed, often moving, accompany pretty much every thought and certainly every memory. So much so that at times it's like watching a movie. I like it.
Jealous. So when you "visualize" where is the image? Is it on the back of your eyelids? When you say you can see images, does it feel like you are using your eyes to see the image? I just have black - no images, no nothing.
I've wondered lately @Russell Berkley. Lots of people with ASC have executive functioning problems, which is essentially ADHD. My son with ASC /ADHD definately cannot picture a description of someone else's experience. I know that's theory of mind. But that feels like a huge difference between us! He is however, highly creative with art, lots of visual imagery and is amazing at seeing how things work, going back to my earlier comment, maybe some people with ADHD have Aphantasia, but judging by the comments on here, a lot have the opposite experience!
This is extremely interesting! I was directed to this video after making this inquiry myself. For me, I can visualize fairly well, but my ability to keep an image stable and constant is lacking. It’s as if the image is only as solid as I am focused. My (very loose) hypothesis is that just in the way aphantasia exists on a spectrum, so does the ability to maintain and control the image. ADHD affects the latter. But I wonder how hyperphantasia affects those with ADHD. Is it easier for them to maintain constant visuals?
(from the contest of adhd/asd) I do have imagery in a "barely existing" level. (I do see info that this thing can be trained and it would be a goal for future) The interesting part is - it was completely gone when I was on bupropeon medication.
its surprising to know that some folks with ADHD dont have visualized thinking i am literally flipping through channels in my head while trying to write this
I've never heard of this, but at 52 years old, I have no or few memories, and no or few emotions come up with the ones I have. I'll have to read up on Aphantasia.
As someone with no capacity for visual imagery, (and ADHD) it was quite the trip to learn that "mind's eye" "imagine a beach" "picture this" etc. were not JUST metaphors. When I read metaphors in stories or poems I think about the ideas of the things or what the author/artist is trying to say. A great example I saw online was what do you think of when you think of Justice. Do you picture a judge or do you go to the abstract idea? For most of my life I had no idea people could even pick the first option. On top of the fact that is what most people can do is a perpetual mindfuck
Yeah. It's kind of sad, when Mum passed and I couldn't remember her face and realised other people could. But I have my own ways to remember the things important to me, so I wasnt too sad for long.
Ditto. Blew my mind. Honestly, I still have trouble believing others literally _see_ things in their mind. I've consumed a lot of ayahuasca and most people who do that have amazing stories of the visions they've had during ceremony--full of people and animals and spirits and whatever else--and describe them in vivid detail. And there's a painter who has painted his visions and they're absolutely beautiful. So I'm a little jealous. The most I ever get is some colour, usually brown or purple, sometimes with vague geometric patterns. It's kind of like an empty computer desktop and I'm opening up text files and working on ideas that way. I was recently arguing in the comments of a video about theory of mind using the act of imagining a triangle as an example. Dualists (people who believe the mind is immaterial, ie made of 'mental stuff' and not reducible to the properties of normal matter) kept saying stuff like, _"there's actually a triangle there. But where is it and what's it made out of? Not matter, obviously, so it must be 'mental stuff'."_ Smh. There ain't no triangle. It's just a representation of a triangle. I know because I don't see a triangle when I imagine one. I just hold onto the idea of what a triangle is. It helps that I'm a software developer and am very familiar with how real things like triangles can be represented in the abstract.
This is wild, I've often seen entire my own paintings, movies, replay events and modify them in my head weekly and complete. I often see solutions/pictures in my head before typing them down, having to translate them from what I see into equations or words. But at the same time I do have time blindness.
I have ADHD and I would say weakened visualisation. I can visualise things, but the imagery is really faded looking. But I still have movies going on in my head all the time and I would say I have an over-active imagination. What I find interesting is the link found between lessened sensory sensitivity and aphantasia, because I have sensory sensitivity. But in aware that the links discussed doesn't mean everyone fits neatly within a "aphantasia box" per se. I do identify a lot with the lessened emotional response to others describing emotional experiences. I have just finished my Master of Clinical Psychology and have been working in therapy and assessment for over a year. When clients describe traumatic events that happened to them, I don't feel anything about it and just thought that it was because I was able to not be effected and just focus on my job, but having listened to this video, I now know why. I'm very empathetic and so can provide clients with the emotional support they need, and I find not feeling much about what they say helps me to do my job and not take the emotion home with me at the end of the day.
It's strange that I can see in my dreams vividly. But I see only darkness in my mind when I'm awake. After having done dmt though, I do see lines, shapes or colors when I close my eyes. Sometimes. And I'm very grateful for it. It's wonderful
I will certainly keep this in mind. My DCPsych is on pause at the moment, and i've been bouncing around different ideas for my research thesis. I was only diagnosed with ADHD last year (i'm 35 now), and also only recently discovered how poor my visualisation is in comparison to others. It's like watching a video in 240p. But I mostly only can conjure up still images and I have to focus really hard on specific areas to try to get any semblance of detail. I mostly think in concepts and feelings with some vague, non-detailed images thrown in. When i'm reading a book, I imagine the character as a basic body shape and hair colour / length but there's not really a face unless I really really try hard to think about it. And then as I move on from one aspect to another, the poor amount of detail i've put together is already gone.
Im so happy I found this video, i have adhd innatentive type, i have no visual imagery (yet somehow i have a successful career in design. I have a terrible memory, terrible at following instructions, zero visual ability (probaby also have no inner monologue). Im fascinated by the link here. There are many active groups on reddit with people sharing information about how to go from 0% ability to visualise to some. The main thing they identified is that aphanta were not able to reason sensory thought in a sense, they could not answer a question which could not be answered with analogues (eg. What is the difference between red and blue? An aphant would not be able to answer this with sensory though only with analogue descriptors) there may be a libk with helping develop this sensory thinking through exercises and improve their adhd symptoms, fascinating!
I think this topic is interesting. Female, ADHD, no other known conditions. In terms of mentally stimulating things, visual imagery is fine, picturing numbers in my head is quite good, it is like I have a dual monitor set up, good at recalling and imagining feeling. Not good with recalling words/letters (I can do it but it's a strain), and I can't recall smells very well. I love this conversation.
So interesting! I have asd/adhd diagnosis, from a young age i remeber having a very vivid imagination to the point that iam not sure from time to time who "controled the boat' me or the images. As i aged this "perk" changed but the pattern remained , i can imagine anythink my scenarios are just more realistic. Now about imagery and action , i can picture myself doing anythink but when the time comes to do the thing, if i dont enjoy it i wont recall the previous memory-imagery on the contrary if i enjoy it, i will recall it and enrich it with music , even more details to the point that i will reach an euphoric state of "self pleasuring" with the details of the imagery.
When imagining something in minds eye - is the image a ‘real’ thing inside your head that is stable and that you can kinda ‘look’ at, explore, change up and see it clearly? Or is it a a fleeting, hard to create/grasp/see/keep vague or piecemeal image that feels like it is wisp of wind blowing in and away from hard to reach crevice of the mind? I’m guessing I have aphantasia because I’m asking this question :/ (adult diagnosed ADHD)
Interesting, I have ADHD and work both as a doctor and an artists , I don't find it difficult to generate mental imagery for doing my art although it sometimes feel a little restricted. But I do resonate with the part where you talked about being unable to elect empathy by verbal descriptions and get emotional over it , and it sometimes shows when working with patients as I can't find much empathy towards their struggle and what they descripe , however I do feel empathic when their struggles are visually visible to my eyes more , it lefts off the effort of trying to imagine it and kinda skips a step towards that connection.
Very interesting, I have been wondering if I have some form of aphantasia for some time. I might be in the group with reduced capacity for mental imagery. I can place myself in the space of a memory to some extent, but the images are very vague and fleeting, more like silhouettes in a dense fog. How would one measure and quantify these subjective experiences in a scientific way?
I have aphantasia and diagnosed adhd while also having high iq and mech engineering degree. I agree with all that is said in this video and can also testify to the truths here unmentioned. It definitely warrants more research as i believe there are, in this very area, important underlying connections to understand and empower oneself with. I probably have couple years old rants saved that speak about this very matter.
I imagine not being able to picture things makes it so much harder to stay on track to reach any goal. How can you feel motivated by an outcome you cannot even imagine?
I’m absolutely a diagnosed ADHD girly with aphantasia. I wish so much that I will one day be able to see an image in my mind but I just can’t. I do get a sensation in my mind that I can only describe as “seeing” but it’s not visual. I just don’t have a word for it. It’s like a different form of thought than my usual inner dialog.
I am going into my 3rd year in psychology, I WAS on track for honours but had a rough past 2 semesters... still my interests align well with researching, maybe I can use my ambitions to motivate me more where stimulant medication has not been as effective. Somehow, I even love stats. If I make it into honours I would be honoured (pun intended) to propose your hypothesis for my thesis.
I always thought I had didn't have dreams and could not imagine things, but when I got hyperfixated on lucid dreaming and started writing down my dreams, I noticed how from 0 my dream memory became 1080p 60fps with details and stuff. Obviously eventually enthusiasm dropped off later and I am back to the state of barely able to imagine even a stain of an apple, I think for the most part it is possible to develop imagination even with ADHD (though ofc everyone is different and maybe just unlucky), at least if you had bits of it available before.
If aphantasia were my only issue, i could've considered it a superpower in some sense. By removing all superficial details it kind of forces abstract thinking and that feels kind of important in programmers job. Unfortunately, I can't make full use of it, due to brain fog, dissociation, executive disfunction, etc.
As an ADHD brain with mind blindness, I’m curious about so many hypotheses around Aphantasia. I have a very chatty brain, lots of subvocalization, my AuDHD daughter has neither the voice nor the imagery. There has to be so much information worth researching regarding how different types of aphantasia affect learning and general processing of the world around us.
@2:12 This is my greatest epiphany of the video. I have known that I have 100% (or damn near) aphantasia, but this is something else. It explains why I don't ever feel connected with others, feel in awe at great sights, moved by music, and so on; it basically has made me feel dead inside all of my life.
That sound more like depression. Aphantasia do not impact your life that greatly and maybe you feel that way because you have and untreated comorbid like autism, anxienty, adhd.
I would look more into this. I have an experience in my 20's where instantly I saw hues for lack of a better description. When you first put on new glasses everything looks clearer, well this was like seeing all the differences of the greens in the trees as I was driving. It was remarkable. I never realized what I was missing. I love the colors of sunrise, sunset, the lake water but I know that on one day colors became vivid.
Thanks to Russell drilling into my head how much better i was off on meds I'm going back for another prescription for Concerta on Friday. Its been almost five years. As for Aphantasia, off meds I can imagine perfectly!! But it fades INSTANTLY!!! lol..so what's the point. On meds i can hold the image for really as long as i need it, and can re-call it in an instant. Off meds once its gone.
I have aphantasia and ADHD, but none of the listed related conditions seem to apply. Rather -- and this is something I've heard in descriptions of typical aphantasia -- my mental imagery shuts off while I am awake. I can dream visually, but as I wake up, it gets shut down. And as I am falling asleep, I start to have mental images appear. Losing access to interesting dreams can be frustrating when I don't want them to go away, but I do get that one would not want to "remember" a dream as though it were real. I can imagine sound, and in fact, this can be intrusive...having a musical sound track running unless I intentionally attempt to control it. Mental rehearsal of movement also seems not to have a necessary connection to visualization, because what one is rehearsing is muscle movement. It does not help me to "practice" to imagine seeing a person doing it...what I need is to go through the motor actions, but disconnected from producing motor signals.
Oh my, THIS! You sound closest to what I experience. I only heard of this within the last couple years. I couldn't do math in my head. I can't see images when asked to imagine. I have a hard time with facial memory. In college I took a problem solving class and it shot my grades up. At university I had my first professor who suggested I was dyslexic.. I can't recall large parts of my childhood and although nobody ever suggested ADHD I had a problem daydreaming or dissocociating. I have to do to learn. I can visualize dreams and it has always been upsetting when I lose what I was deep in thought about. I can hear sound memories I suppose. I didn't know why it would happen, as well as feelings. I used to focus on photo albums but when visiting they were different, in reverse or something. I don't know what the take away is but I really feel studies need to be done.
I have ADHA and struggle with mental imagery. Never understood why people would say imagine you are on a beach. My brain echos, “imagine you are on a beach” and that’s pretty much it. If I do get a fleeting glimpse of a beech imagine it goes by so fast I can’t control what type of beach, who is on it, the surroundings. It’s like blinking your eyes, that momentary flicker of your lids coming down, that the amount of visual imagery. My brain never stops its inner monologue
I have little capacity for visualization, but my auditory recall is quite high for music. Must be why I gravitated towards two degrees in music and subsequent career in radio
Thought I might have hypophantasia (not absent, but weak), but took a test online for it and it suggests I'm average. Not sure if the two disorders are linked, but I will say this. I don't particularly *enjoy* trying to imagine things because even if I can conjure the imagery on demand, it requires too much focus to maintain more than a flash or a hint of what I was looking for. Which could definitely impact working memory.
@mimosveta yes to all of these, while having another "browser tab" in my brain where it's vividly replaying random scenes from the episode I watched yesterday, another tab where I'll hear a random music I like, another tab where I imagine a new art idea i want to draw, and another one where I'm imagining the exact sequence of tasks I'm about to do when I go downstairs so I don't forget (spoilers: I'll forget about it) but some of these tabs will randomly disappear in my brain and reappear again for the next 5 minutes 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Yes, it seems strange to think of how often ADHD is associated with artists and then to simultaneously imagine it is associated with inability to generate internal worlds. My issue is more so "maladaptive daydreaming" where I should be doing work, but my brain would rather think about poems, and pictures, and the soft breath of a woman whispering in my ear, or the taste of an avocado and bacon sandwich on sourdough, or floating naked in a pool on a Florida summer night.
@@mrPuddiCake that sounds tiring! ( And potentially exciting, in some ways. I probably used to be more like that. Trying to write something based on a load of papers I've read is a bit like having loads of tabs open though. My mind wants to follow ideas that interest me and go off at a tangent! Are you good at getting your art finished or do your other tabs distract you?
Was the Default Mode Network mentioned in this? From what I recall reading is that the DMN is more active in ADHD and would be less active in someone with aphantasia. For me, I have a movie playing almost constantly over my visual reality. I'm basically in augmented reality without the glasses.
Another personal account. I can generate pictures in my mind, but cannot visualise processes very well. So practising actions in my mind is just an impossibility. Hearing an account generates definitely enough emotion, but certainly no full sensory whole set szenic film. It's all pretty static pictures. My verbal memory, retaining facts linked by logic is absolutely outstanding. I'm plenty creative, made up stories since I could verbalise them, but I HAVE to verbalise to connect those internal pictures.
My mind is blown that there is a word for this, let alone a known and researched condition. I think I have aphantasia, and it is very difficult for me to reconcile with it because I used to have a very vivid imagination when I was a kid and I miss it dearly. I am wondering if there is something I can do to bring my imagination back.
I wonder what is source of comorbidity of ADHD and dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia mayby common origins ? so genes overlapping ? any evidence of correlation of structural or functional brain organization ?
Very interesting. I wonder if there’s a connection between non verbal working memory and Prosopagnosia (face blindness)? Are there any studies about that issue?
Could it be rather simple? 1 Neurotransmitter amount 2 amount of Neurotransmitter Transporter 3 activation threshhold of a nerve cell 4 what specific region in the brain hast what amount of 1, 2 and 3 If we could measure those 4 things could we then explain adhd, adhd inatentive presentation, cognitive disengagement syndrome, autism and so on? And thank you for the videos 👍
I have both Aphantasia and ADHD....only realized I had Aphantasia when I was probably 35 and just discovered I have ADHD at 38. Let's just say I feel like I'm just finally learning how to live.
I often have to speak, write or perform an action or thought. I do not have difficulty generating the images. It is more an intense overload of every possible action or reaction
Im 68 and only recently discovered I have aphantasia or rather should I say that others can still visualize images. I have many a time tried looking at something then close my eyes and tried to visualize it without success not knowing it was common amongst Neuro typical. One time I actually did manage to see a clear image and it scared the hell out of me fearing that what would happen if I had to continuously see images not able to shut it down. I actually feel sorry for the 98 percent that still do. I've been working on a theory of consciousness and how the brain operates with great success and are currently working on a book Dimensions of Reality which will literally change our understanding forever. Aphantasia is a gift with a far superior way of processing information rather than merely having the ability of accumulating and regurgitating information. I wouldn't change my mindset for anything in the world.
This is the first time in my life I have ever heard of this. Depressing, that I am in the category that has a hard time visualizing. I've had people imply that I was stupid because I couldn't do math in my head very well. It makes sense that I could never remember much of my childhood.
It's not always pleasant things. I can see image or a video of me opening a fridge when I was a kid hearing air raid siren and running down the stairs without my parents during war in Yugoslavia in 1999, or seing a damaged building in my street for first time. My mother crying when she returned from food market where cluster bombs were dropped. I don't remember much else from that year.
100% correct @60 plus Know you Know Doc. n glad I found you.All this has explained a lot of why things have happened in life nothing to complain about now just understand more n yes nothing's Easy about all this looking normal but different.Funny thing nobody told me till 51 yrs old n wish others could understand really. It's Hard on oneself it never Stops anyway Life is Good cause every min.is new lol
I had severe difficulty with getting lost, not being able to follow directions to walk or drive to places, not being able to go on hikes I had gone on many times with a partner because of getting lost -- until dx and then Adderall. Now I can "see" in mind where I am going rather than relying 100 on verbally memorizing directions. I hope someone will do research about this someday.
Aphantasia is due to the lack of a conscious Si function - it is my hypothesis that it is more prevalent amongst the NJ types (ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ).
Note that aphantasia relates to object visualization. You can have very good visual-spatial ability though. In fact, I've read somewhere that there may be a trade-off between these abilities. I've heard studies on prodigies have shown that most types of prodigies have high iq, which is basically a test of visual spatual abilities, except prodigies in the vusual arts, who are clearly geniuses but not in the iq way. Temple Grandin is an extreme object visualuzer, but she stuggles with the abstact categorization needed for algebra. Obviously, that's an n of 1, but my adhd brain has a lot of hypothesises based on an n of 1.
I suffer when it comes to a sense of direction and cannot spatially see how furniture or cabinets would fit in a space. It the dark I have to use touch to navigate.
Interesting! I haven't quite finished listening. I'm guessing there's a lot of variety. I am highly visual, and good at imagining all senses. I used to have an almost photographic memory for learning things I was interested in when I was stimulated by the subject. However, as I've got older with multiple demands I'm pretty dependent on the visual of writing things down for remembering information. I'm not good at selecting information when faced with lots of writing. It's information overload. Whereas with hearing information I retain things and think about them well and picture what I'm thinking about as well. I think laterally and make connections and listen. I am dyspraxic as well so if someone explains how to do a complex nechanical task, I can see exactly what to do. I find it hard to translate it into action e.g. mountain biking skills. I need explanation of tge task broken down into steps/how it works so I can see each step. Other things I follow really easily e.g. cooking something because I can imagine it, and I'm already doing it in my mind. As ADHD overlaps with dyspraxia, ASC, dyslexia etc, I imagine that there is a lot of variety. Interesting to see people's responses already and it will be interesting to see what follows!!
I have gone to neurologist with these kinds of symptoms and they told me to take MRI. And they found nothing on the MRI. Except for the "partial empty cellae" which is usually found incindental aswell.
Good friend of mine has ADHD (inatenttive) and aphantasia. (Which is mindblowingly fascinating to me!) I have also ADHD (mix of all), but I can vividly imagine a lot. We're at the opposite ends of being able to imagine!
I agree mind blowing, as I am primarily inattentive, my mind is in a rabbit hole of questions, daydreams, old memories as well as daily chores and what's for dinner at any given moment!
Now I need to know - can people remember smells? And remember other people's voices? And touch!? Oh I'm starting to get worried - I remember movement, descriptions and internal feelings - am I missing more than just an ability to generate a mental image? I do have ADHD, not treated at the moment unfortunately. I will say, I do experience emotion from stories I read or hear if it's something I've gone through, because then I can imagine the internal feelings behind the words. I can actually be very sensitive to certain things.
Is mirroring theory still valid? I have my doubts about it - simply from the fact that I've never learned anything by imitating others (teachers), but by figuring it out by myself (bicycle) or reading manuals (computer). I have neither ADHD or Asperger, and I function very well in the society.
AuDHD (Autism + ADHD) here. I have fairly strong visual aphantasia (can only imagine vague contours for brief moments), but I have extreme sensory sensitivity (visual, auditory, olfactory and tactile). I think Aphantasia may be linked more strongly to autism rather than ADHD, based on a small circle of people I have known with various combinations of ADHD/Autism/Aphantasia.
So, really weird question...you spoke that aphantasia may be associated with other diminished senses...does this mean someone with aphantasia might not be unexpected to have an extremely(potentially dangerous) level of pain tolerance? The other day I splashed my stomach with hot grease while cooking, and while I felt the splash and warmth, I did not realize until later that I actually had a pretty significant quarter sized burn that took a couple weeks to heal that caused me no pain. I also didn't complain as a child when I broke my collarbone, and my parents almost got in trouble for child abuse since it took them days to realize I was injured so I was delayed getting to the hospital.
Dr. Barkley have ever considered making use of the TH-cam pills feature to get an idea of your audiences adhd symptoms, tendencies etc? I realize it is less scientific than a lab study but I still think it could have useful purposes for both you and your audience.
I have both, and honestly it was absolutely more earth shattering to me to realize everyone else was seeing actual pictures in their minds when they said "picture this" or "visualize this" - I felt like people had this incredible super power and I had been sitting there like an idiot thinking all of those were metaphors. Learning I had ADHD was much easier to swallow
mgod same, the idea people can have genuine colors and pictures in their heads is insane to me and I'm kinda jealous
nod. I close friend has hyperphantasia. We saw Villanieu's (sp??) Dune, and he absolutely got more from the experience than the vibes I walked away with.
I feel the same. We will never know what we are missing.
Not being able to understand why you cant picture or hear anything is heart breaking 100! I once heard voices for a few seconds tho, it was like a ghost? Only ever happened like twice in my life, shit scared the fuck outta me! I swear i was hallucinating but i was fully aware of myself. And trying to get actual information on aphantasia, isnt easy! Like wheres the test and videos on this? Not like its a problem for people who can use these techniques or w.e you call them. Imagination! To me it sounds like you are all on some crazy shit! And i want some!
I've suffered from ADHD for 50 years and if there is one thing my mind never, ever, stops doing is generating mental imagery.
but do you have a narrator of your life constantly yapping and yapping, and when it stops describing what is currently happening to you, it's to tell you how stupid you are, and how much it can't believe you just did/said that?
I also came to the comments section to say the very same thing!!!
Same here! Only I've suffered from ADHD for almost 43 years.
Same here! I wish the imagery would stop sometimes. The other day, I couldn't remember the term "sun-tan lotion" but my brain sent be thousands of images of bottles of different colours, and lying on the beach, and sun beds, and memories of holidays and the sensation of sun on my skin and how I didn't like this oil-based version I once had that came in a brown bottle but I did like this cream spray that came on a blue bottle. It's like, thanks for all that, but what I really wanted was just the three words "sun-tan lotion" (sun-block for any Americans).
This, however when I need to imagine something ON PURPOSE in the middle of my executive block, I literally can’t see anything except maybe most banal images and plots. Like in a moment I lose any ability to productively phantasise. As a student of cinema school I suffer from that a lot. It mostly occurs when I feel extreme anxiety (for example, anxiety to fail with my “dumb” idea), so when it hits me hard I turn from one of the most creative persons in my class to an absolute blockhead.
when my husband died I eventually sought the help of a psychologist who soon diagnosed me - at age 63 - with ADHD. It was an amazing moment in my life when I could understand my lifelong history of underachievement.
At the same time I was devastated to realize that I had so little visual memory of my beloved husband who I had spent so much of my life with and knew so well. I realised that other people who hardly knew him could recall times and events which they shared with him far more vividly than I could. My memories were of vague 'snapshot' images of him -- often based on actual photographs, rather than video' style recollections of events or just everyday life. It has been a great sadness to me and something which I have felt so guilty about and not wished to tell other people about.
I had never thought of it as being related to the ADHD, but rather some horrible fault in my relationship with him which I could not identify or understand.
I have aphantasia and ADHD. I had no idea other people think in pictures and feelings- my internal monologue is going nonstop all the time. That being said- not being able to visualize something does not diminish my capacity to imagine something. If you ask me to visualize a red triangle, I can’t “see it”. But, I know what red is and I know what a triangle is so I can imagine it. I can manipulate an object or idea in my mind, but it is throw “knowing” (for lack of a better word) and through “seeing” with my mind’s eye.
It is my opinion that you (and me) are in fact experiencing the same thing everyone else is (most people) it's just that we *describe* it differently. I believe this is a semantic difference not a real difference.
I'm like you. I describe my experience as "I can't 'see it', but I can see it sort of. I can describe every detail of it, but it exists somewhere abstract, it's not like it's an object right in front of me."
I believe a related topic is this: Where in physical space would you say your mind is? Like, relative to your body. Where in physical space, approximately what direction, is your mind/your thoughts?
@SolidSiren I'm not sure that's the case. Looking at aphantasia or vivid imagery testing, it speaks about how "vivid" an image is in your minds eye. This scales from 5 (as vivid as if you are actually seeing it) to 0 (you don't see an image but "know" you are thinking about the object).
It sounds like you both aren't seeing any vivid imagery to speak of but rather just "know" you are thinking about something. For what it's worth, I'm the same.
@@Lasidar Thanks for the reply. I know about the scale of vividness. But after talking with my family and friends at length about it, I still think people are just using different words to describe a similar experience. You say it sounds like I'm not seeing any vivid imagery, but I am. I just say it differently. I can describe every aspect of the apple, or a dragon, or a 3 headed cow. 🤔 I find this topic very interesting.
I wonder if people with aphantasia dream quite differently from others? What do you think?
@@Lasidar yep. can confirm the way these folks are talking it's clear they don't know what a mind's eye or mental imagery actually is.
reading the comment about manipulating a red triangle, I see an actual red triangle briefly spinning around.
It's not in front of me. It's not at all indistinguishable from a real object it's very clearly an imagination. But I do see it for a moment.
@@steveheidenreich9183do you close your eyes and then you see it?
I have hyperphantasia- and extremely long/vivid retention of imagery. My unattenuated hyperphantasia causes executive dysregulation and ADHD-like symptoms . . . because I sometimes cannot devote more than about 5% of cognition to intentional/engaged thinking. In fact, I’m taking two ADHD meds daily now . . . 40mg Vyvanse and 150mg bupropion twelve hours apart.
My primary diagnosis is autism spectrum disorder which often causes the findings of allistic human subject studies to be the opposite of my neurology.
Look into toxic heavy metal theory for what's causing these mental disabilities. Depending on concentration, type and location of these metals in your brain they can cause either ADHD, Autism, Aphantasia and so on...
Interesting. I have autism with aphantasia, brains are such complex things
Man I think I might have something like that. Clicked on this video as I have assumed for a while that I have undiagnosed ADHD, but i'm being constantly barraged with imagery as well as an inner monologue that won't shut up (I guess that's normal). The imagery isn't hyper real though, it's very unfocused and it takes a lot of concentration to 'render' it photographically, so I get a lot of flashing and warping generally that looks similar to early AI videos.
This was incredibly validating. I have ADHD and aphantasia and it makes so much sense that the two could be connected. I suppose if anyone looking to study this needs a case study, hit me up. I'm already working on an unrelated dissertation, so it couldn't be me!
yoooo i have the same going on for me, hows life bro?
As someone with ADHD, my ability to visualize things - even mechanical (with moving parts) is really good. I can build stuff mentally to know how it will look when I create things. I'm just one person so take it for what it's worth.
Nah I agree with you we have problem doing stuff not imagining stuff... I can imagine a billion thing on demand
I played "how many gears moving each other correctly can I imagine" when I was bored in school as a kid
I am like this too.
It is the inability to use that imagery to guide ones own behaviour which is inhibited. Not the imagery itself.
i can fully imagine moving systems, but I cant "picture" them, if that makes sense
One of the first things I wondered when I learned of aphantasia years ago (once I got over the fact that others actually experience imagined sensory information in their mind) was "is this why my working memory is so non existent?".
Another was "is this why I and many other autistic people didn't do imagination play as kids?"
I have a severe ADHD, and let me tell you that seeing image is my greatest talent, I can imagine a billion things so vividly like they're almost real in a second!
But self-motivation is another game, always have to trick myself with external motivation my internal motivation is not functioning...
Same
I'm not sure u understood any of the video. It is the inability to use that imagery to guide ones own behaviour which is inhibited. Not the imagery itself.
@@gravity00x Yes that's nonverbal working memory, but that's not what it's about
He's talking about the ability to see an image, visual imagination
@@gravity00xplease give some concrete examples
@@OuiofcourseCan you describe “nonverbal working memory” please?
I was very excited to see this video, thank you. I would love more scientists to look into SDAM - Severely deficient autobiographical memory as well which can co-occur with aphantasia - I personally struggle with both and it has a big impact on my life. Not many drs or therapists know much about them and more research is needed.
Now that’s something that I find very relevant and true as well. Do you have certain time periods in your life that you don’t or barely remember and if so how long are they ago on average or can you explain in a little more detail?
Thank you very much in advance
So most of my children are adhd / autistic and I had to do a whole lot of paperwork and I really really struggled going back to when they were younger and remembering all the details. I have also been very big for photographing and looking back on them and I worked out that this was me compensating for the deficit. While on the journey for my children I went down the rabbit hole and was watching lots on neurodiversities and came across a videos on aphantasia and I was like wait what.. People actually see things in their head, I always thought it was a figure of speech. Then I went on a deep dive on that after my husband said he can see and adapt things in his head and came across SDAM, it was a very emotional experience working out my brain isn't like the norm. I can recall some photos but not the actual event it self. There are a few stories that I have told consistently about my childhood and can again retell but not relive. There is so much of my life missing from my memories which leaves me feeling pretty empty.
@@toni-leepadman3777 I can understand what you wrote so well and this is an incredibly hard realization in addition to all the other struggles caused by ADHD. It makes you wonder how incredible the life of people who don’t have these neurological disadvantages must be in so many ways. Just imagining that people can actually relive the most beautiful memories in their heads and see it crystal clear as if those people and memories would be right in front of them again and people with ADHD cannot experience this their entire life - is very sad, tragic and hurtful
I believe it to be separate to adhd, my husband was meant to be tested as a child but because he was succeeding they decided not to proceed with testing, he very much struggles to this day, even though he is very smart. He needs a lot of help setting up strategies to help with the executive functioning which he's been implementing and trying to perfect for years now. He's not willing to look into medication and believes he'll figure it out so yeah he's currently working on a goal 75 hard and he's determined to achieve that. He is more on the hyperphantasia side of the scale.
And I'm really sorry about the hurt that this thing sdam causes you. It can be a tough road when you first come to realise. I try so hard to focus on what's happening around me sometime hoping so badly it will cross over and become a memory that I can treasure. I look at my children who are so close to becoming adults/teenagers and just wish I could remember their faces when they were younger, I can't hear their voices either 😢
I am 34 years old, I already know about aphantasia because I realized a few years ago that despite dreaming with images, when I try to form images in my mind consciously I encounter enormous difficulty, or I simply can only create an internal dialogue... I was diagnosed with ADHD recently and I have also been looking into the possible implications that these two conditions may have on each other. I read that mental imagery requires initial processing in the frontal and parietal cortex before recruiting other areas of the brain
Although there are no journal publications on ADHD and aphantasia, I did find KE Bates' PhD thesis covering Mental Imagery and Visual Working Memory development in ADHD children, "Picture this: an investigation of the neural and behavioural correlates of mental imagery in childhood and adulthood with implications for children with ADHD," which found ADHD children exhibited typical development patterns. That obviously shouldn't deter anyone else from investigating further, but I wanted to shout out this person for their efforts even though their specific investigation relating to ADHD is not published in a journal.
Thank you! People hear these things and think its a completed theory
I was diagnosed with severe combined type ADHD and Asperger’s in 2021 at 46 years old. About 18 months ago I learned about Aphantasia and discovered I have full aphantasia across all 5 senses. I have zero capacity to conjure up images, smells, tastes, sounds or touch.
I do not have the ability to retain memories and generate emotions from previous ‘lived’ events in any way at all.
Despite not being diagnosed as neurodivergent until 46 I have always known I was different from the vast majority of people in many ways, and my ADHD and ASD diagnosis helped me understand that. However, I had no idea that I was unusual in what I now understand to be my total sensory aphantasia. It’s been very traumatic to realise how much this impacts me.
I've been with this channel since its inception. How thrilling it is to see you inch up to almost 100,000 subscribers, Dr. B! It's remarkable that so many of us around the globe can tune in for free to learn more about ADHD from one of the world's leading experts. The internet has brought plenty of rubbish into our lives but here we have an example of knowledge -- and humour! -- being disseminated to anyone who can be bothered to watch and listen. What a blessing! Thank you.
I'm a psych undergrad and was literally thinking this is something I could base my final year research project on. I also have ADHD (diagnosed at 47) and aphantasia.
Fascinating. I've always had both ADHD and aphantasia. I do have the capacity for (rather weak/muted) visualization, but it requires conscious effort/concentration and are not naturally occurring.
Learning via imitation isn't an issue. Recalling sensations, regardless of type, most certainly is. Specific sights, smells, sounds, textures ... I simply cannot encode these in memory. At best, I can identify sensory stimuli, e.g., the smell of coffee, but I am wholly incapable of recalling that smell. I know what my wife said today, but not verbatim. In lieu of sense-based memories, I instead imprint conclusions of internal analyses, affective responses to stimuli, & general outlines of narratives. I definitely have less detail in memory, episodic or otherwise as mentioned at 6:40 timestamp. Alternatively, conceptualizing abstract concepts seem to easy for me. Writing is a painfully slow process - I lose my thoughts far faster than I can pen/type them. Likewise, mnemonics memory tricks are materially equivalent to brute force memorization. Likely exacerbated by interaction of aphantasia with ADHD, I lose my train of thought quite often, and I estimate that I can only reliably hold two concurrent discrete items in mental queue with any true ... resolution? detail? Two items with detail, 4 fairly vague, or up to about 7 very vague at most. Learning a new phone number is an active exercise in imagining how I'd move my fingers when actually calling, where the numbers are on a 10-key pad, not what the numbers look like.
I never considered these two conditions may be linked, only that it's problematic when both are present. Aphantasia forces me to lean on nonverbal working memory as it cuts out access to verbal working memory, and ADHD by definition undermines the reliability of nonverbal memory.
Reading your comment was like having someone spell out my own experience with Aphantasia and ADD/ADHD. Even down to the capacity to hold information and how that affects the clarity of the info, the use of spatial "imagination" to remember numbers on a keypad, and the tendency or adaption of whittling info down to conclusive or summarized chunks of info in order to process and retain the information. Which works well for problem solving and solution-based tasks...and how those limitations can get in the way of being detailed, since we have little to grasp on to when it comes to verbal memory and visual memory place holders.
Man, you know what study I would love is an examination of the mental adaptations of aphantasia because this video really kneecapped my mood.
I was kind of hoping for that- but I just got more info about my nerfs- which is kind of validating but needed to be in a better headspace to digest this better.
I didn't know that NOT seeing clear images in your head wasn't typical for a long time, I have to wonder if the rate of Aphantasia is much higher because I know many people who also didn't know that. I have ADHD and that goes with poor sleep habits that have probably destroyed my memory "skills", so with my very very diminished ability to imagine things and all that, I'm basically the world's useless public witness in a court case lol. It's very nice to know what causes my struggles covered in 1:20. I have non-stop monologue in my head but I'm not mad that I can't see vivid images, because thanks to that I have no reaction to traumatic visual memories and it probably will aid me in being a therapist someday. That said, having no imagination as a 3D artist is...very difficult to say the least.
Thank you Dr Barkley!
I am so grateful for Daniel recommending your youtube channel during Dr Grorge Simon's channel. 🌹
Thank you for this! I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year or two ago, and found out about aphantasia soon after at a research conference. I was chatting with one of my professors about it when we got back and I remarked that I thought it was strange that the brain scans (? I'm not sure what they were, looked more like a 3D topographical map made up of bars than a CT scan) showed a higher amount of activity in those with aphantasia than without; and he said it might be along the same lines of how people with ADHD ironically need stimulants in order to reduce hyperactivity symptoms.
Along with that, my siblings all seem like they also have aphantasia and 1/2 of us are diagnosed ADHD (other 1/2 undiagnosed but definitely show symptoms). However, one of my friends is diagnosed ADHD, but experiences normal amounts of internal imagery-- so it might not span over ALL adhd cases, but it may be linked to a specific subset of adhd-- like hyperactivity vs inattentiveness, or executive functioning as you pointed out. I think there's some real merit here for a study. AND I'm taking my research methods/lab classes during the Spring 2025 semester, so I think I know what my study is going to be on if one is needed for my class! :D
Ah, my second favourite topic. I was training in some hypnotherapy after being diagnosed with ADHD and was extremely frustrated with the central tenet of visualisation. It had become apparent that people actually SEE something when they're asked to visualise, and that seeing blackness was not a thing.
I posed this exact question re ADHD and Aphantasia 2 years back to the Aphanstasia forum but it was also recognised as an unstudied area so it seems it hasn't moved much. It made sense that at least some ADHDers have co-occuring Aphantasia given that it all involves neural networks.
Where I may differ on the memory component (though I like the WM connection) is that we have to differentiate between long term memory and descriptive detail because there is a tendency to link Aphantasia to SDAM. I have an almost extreme Aphantasia yet have an unfortunately excellent AM - BUT this AM lacks detail (I can remember scenarioes but can't recall the scene in a picture detail - I "think" the scene but wouldnt be able to tell what clothes i was wearing, what the scenery looks like etc).
I hear you! Also have aphantasia & ADHD and trained in hypnotherapy - and also in visual methods!
At some point I realised I'm not the only person in the training who just cannot tap into the visual and other imagery processes (I just thought I was a really 'difficult subject' for a while!).
Got so interested in the subject that - as a researcher by background - I started my own research project into the topic 😆 (#helloADHD)
So yeah, now I'm on a mission to educate the hypnotherapy community about aphantasia and how we can best work with aphantasics so that they don't have to go through the - why is this not working for me??? - thing 🙃
BTW, amazing that you have really good autobiographical memory - can I ask if you have aphantasia across all internal senses (so no ability to visualise, touch, smell, taste or hear internally) or is can you tap into one or more of them (apart from the visual)?
@@paulinatrevena I'm not sure that I always find my AM useful, because I am sure you can see how that and ADHD together can be challenging 😂
I would say that I am total Aphantasic (with qualifier) because visualisation seemed like an "obvious" deficiency given its widespread use but I was even more gobsmacked that people experienced their other senses realistically. So even in hypno training I always assumed that when they used the other senses it was metaphorical.
The qualifier is on hearing because I am not sure what people mean with an internal voice. I have a perpetual inner voice that I have to distract when I need to focus but have never really felt like I "hear" it in the way people talk about sound - I "sense" my constant chatter in the same way that I try to explain my memory. Its not discrete senses (I see, hear or smell actual) but an abstract "sense". My hypno facilitator tried to "prove" that we all "see" by asking me to describe my house and number of windows - and I did but I explained its not that I am "seeing" it but that I am "sensing" it...
And there we have just how difficult it is to use language to explain something that we don't really have words for...sorry for the essay.
Dr tal vez le sirva a Usted o a alguien mi experiencia...tengo 60 años y cuando tengo sueños no sé si son reales o no...de hecho tardo ya despierto como 30 segundos en reaccionar que era sueño...y muchas veces al volver a dormir sigo soñando el mismo tema 3 o 4 veces seguidas...es cansado!!😢
Oooh how fun. I got an email just these days from the study questionnaire on Aphantasia and Hyperphantasia, which I (an ADHD brain) participated in. I'm on the "hyper" end of this. So cool to hear back from that topic!
I'm 70 and have both ADHD and Aphantasia. In high school, however, I scored super high on that test where you rotate weird shapes in your head - they called it "abstract reasoning" then, but I don't think that is the current definition. I've heard this is well-known, but no one can figure out why. I have always been word and language-oriented and that is mostly how I think, but a situation occurred recently where the written word failed me, and I was forced to switch to visual methods of communicating - video and graphics. Suddenly my dormant visual mind seems to be springing to life and I am able to form images much more easily. Not completely sure what this means but it could be like a sense you didn't use getting better when another sense shut down.
Thanks!
Fascinating! As a 69 year old ADHD granny who just realized I have aphantasia, this makes so much sense.
It's very interesting to me. I don't think I have any aphantasia, but I know my visual imagery was very scattered and tough to focus on before medication, and still I struggle to tell if I'm visualizing or just mentally describing, but it's made a huge impact on my ability to recall if I locked the front door, where I put my phone, etc. Alternatively, it sometimes feels like there's so much vivid imagery from the past decades I can't hone in on a single one because it's shifting and erratic.
Either way, I did notice in myself and have seen anecdotes online, that spending extended time in VR environments where you can observe a lot of interesting and novel details (e.g., Skyrim, No Man's Sky) helped to temporarily give much more vivid mental imagery and even added a layer of depth that wasn't there before. I would be very curious to see if there is some foundation in the heightened focus and sensory novelty afforded by VR has some short term effects on these mechanisms.
I'm a 60-year old ADHDer and mental images, often incredibly detailed, often moving, accompany pretty much every thought and certainly every memory. So much so that at times it's like watching a movie. I like it.
me too
Jealous. So when you "visualize" where is the image? Is it on the back of your eyelids? When you say you can see images, does it feel like you are using your eyes to see the image? I just have black - no images, no nothing.
I'm ADHD with hyperphantasia (and uncontrollable daydreaming, which gets in the way of reality at times throughout my life)
I daydream alot even with aphantasia. Like i have entire other lifes i live in my head and sometimes i will just randomly stop and think about them
@@Thesktre9me too
Allistic ?
I've wondered lately @Russell Berkley. Lots of people with ASC have executive functioning problems, which is essentially ADHD.
My son with ASC /ADHD definately cannot picture a description of someone else's experience. I know that's theory of mind. But that feels like a huge difference between us!
He is however, highly creative with art, lots of visual imagery and is amazing at seeing how things work, going back to my earlier comment, maybe some people with ADHD have Aphantasia, but judging by the comments on here, a lot have the opposite experience!
This is extremely interesting!
I was directed to this video after making this inquiry myself.
For me, I can visualize fairly well, but my ability to keep an image stable and constant is lacking.
It’s as if the image is only as solid as I am focused.
My (very loose) hypothesis is that just in the way aphantasia exists on a spectrum, so does the ability to maintain and control the image.
ADHD affects the latter.
But I wonder how hyperphantasia affects those with ADHD. Is it easier for them to maintain constant visuals?
(from the contest of adhd/asd) I do have imagery in a "barely existing" level. (I do see info that this thing can be trained and it would be a goal for future) The interesting part is - it was completely gone when I was on bupropeon medication.
its surprising to know that some folks with ADHD dont have visualized thinking i am literally flipping through channels in my head while trying to write this
I've never heard of this, but at 52 years old, I have no or few memories, and no or few emotions come up with the ones I have. I'll have to read up on Aphantasia.
As someone with no capacity for visual imagery, (and ADHD) it was quite the trip to learn that "mind's eye" "imagine a beach" "picture this" etc. were not JUST metaphors. When I read metaphors in stories or poems I think about the ideas of the things or what the author/artist is trying to say. A great example I saw online was what do you think of when you think of Justice. Do you picture a judge or do you go to the abstract idea? For most of my life I had no idea people could even pick the first option. On top of the fact that is what most people can do is a perpetual mindfuck
Yes! I had always thought that "picture a thing" meant "think about the visual aspects of a thing"
Yeah. It's kind of sad, when Mum passed and I couldn't remember her face and realised other people could.
But I have my own ways to remember the things important to me, so I wasnt too sad for long.
Yep, same here.
Ditto. Blew my mind. Honestly, I still have trouble believing others literally _see_ things in their mind.
I've consumed a lot of ayahuasca and most people who do that have amazing stories of the visions they've had during ceremony--full of people and animals and spirits and whatever else--and describe them in vivid detail. And there's a painter who has painted his visions and they're absolutely beautiful. So I'm a little jealous. The most I ever get is some colour, usually brown or purple, sometimes with vague geometric patterns. It's kind of like an empty computer desktop and I'm opening up text files and working on ideas that way.
I was recently arguing in the comments of a video about theory of mind using the act of imagining a triangle as an example. Dualists (people who believe the mind is immaterial, ie made of 'mental stuff' and not reducible to the properties of normal matter) kept saying stuff like, _"there's actually a triangle there. But where is it and what's it made out of? Not matter, obviously, so it must be 'mental stuff'."_ Smh. There ain't no triangle. It's just a representation of a triangle. I know because I don't see a triangle when I imagine one. I just hold onto the idea of what a triangle is. It helps that I'm a software developer and am very familiar with how real things like triangles can be represented in the abstract.
@@nuynobi 🤣🤣 very similar experience
This is wild, I've often seen entire my own paintings, movies, replay events and modify them in my head weekly and complete. I often see solutions/pictures in my head before typing them down, having to translate them from what I see into equations or words. But at the same time I do have time blindness.
Very interesting about the learning. I have aphantasia and simply can't learn by watching someone do something, I need to do it myself to learn.
I have ADHD and I would say weakened visualisation. I can visualise things, but the imagery is really faded looking. But I still have movies going on in my head all the time and I would say I have an over-active imagination.
What I find interesting is the link found between lessened sensory sensitivity and aphantasia, because I have sensory sensitivity. But in aware that the links discussed doesn't mean everyone fits neatly within a "aphantasia box" per se.
I do identify a lot with the lessened emotional response to others describing emotional experiences. I have just finished my Master of Clinical Psychology and have been working in therapy and assessment for over a year. When clients describe traumatic events that happened to them, I don't feel anything about it and just thought that it was because I was able to not be effected and just focus on my job, but having listened to this video, I now know why. I'm very empathetic and so can provide clients with the emotional support they need, and I find not feeling much about what they say helps me to do my job and not take the emotion home with me at the end of the day.
It's strange that I can see in my dreams vividly. But I see only darkness in my mind when I'm awake. After having done dmt though, I do see lines, shapes or colors when I close my eyes. Sometimes. And I'm very grateful for it. It's wonderful
I will certainly keep this in mind. My DCPsych is on pause at the moment, and i've been bouncing around different ideas for my research thesis. I was only diagnosed with ADHD last year (i'm 35 now), and also only recently discovered how poor my visualisation is in comparison to others. It's like watching a video in 240p. But I mostly only can conjure up still images and I have to focus really hard on specific areas to try to get any semblance of detail. I mostly think in concepts and feelings with some vague, non-detailed images thrown in. When i'm reading a book, I imagine the character as a basic body shape and hair colour / length but there's not really a face unless I really really try hard to think about it. And then as I move on from one aspect to another, the poor amount of detail i've put together is already gone.
Im so happy I found this video, i have adhd innatentive type, i have no visual imagery (yet somehow i have a successful career in design. I have a terrible memory, terrible at following instructions, zero visual ability (probaby also have no inner monologue). Im fascinated by the link here. There are many active groups on reddit with people sharing information about how to go from 0% ability to visualise to some. The main thing they identified is that aphanta were not able to reason sensory thought in a sense, they could not answer a question which could not be answered with analogues (eg. What is the difference between red and blue? An aphant would not be able to answer this with sensory though only with analogue descriptors) there may be a libk with helping develop this sensory thinking through exercises and improve their adhd symptoms, fascinating!
I think this topic is interesting.
Female, ADHD, no other known conditions.
In terms of mentally stimulating things, visual imagery is fine, picturing numbers in my head is quite good, it is like I have a dual monitor set up, good at recalling and imagining feeling. Not good with recalling words/letters (I can do it but it's a strain), and I can't recall smells very well.
I love this conversation.
I definitely have both full aphantasia (no senses) and also very strong ADHD issues!
So interesting! I have asd/adhd diagnosis, from a young age i remeber having a very vivid imagination to the point that iam not sure from time to time who "controled the boat' me or the images. As i aged this "perk" changed but the pattern remained , i can imagine anythink my scenarios are just more realistic. Now about imagery and action , i can picture myself doing anythink but when the time comes to do the thing, if i dont enjoy it i wont recall the previous memory-imagery on the contrary if i enjoy it, i will recall it and enrich it with music , even more details to the point that i will reach an euphoric state of "self pleasuring" with the details of the imagery.
What a wonderful day this was!!! Love you both too much 🥹🥰
When imagining something in minds eye - is the image a ‘real’ thing inside your head that is stable and that you can kinda ‘look’ at, explore, change up and see it clearly? Or is it a a fleeting, hard to create/grasp/see/keep vague or piecemeal image that feels like it is wisp of wind blowing in and away from hard to reach crevice of the mind?
I’m guessing I have aphantasia because I’m asking this question :/ (adult diagnosed ADHD)
Interesting, I have ADHD and work both as a doctor and an artists , I don't find it difficult to generate mental imagery for doing my art although it sometimes feel a little restricted. But I do resonate with the part where you talked about being unable to elect empathy by verbal descriptions and get emotional over it , and it sometimes shows when working with patients as I can't find much empathy towards their struggle and what they descripe , however I do feel empathic when their struggles are visually visible to my eyes more , it lefts off the effort of trying to imagine it and kinda skips a step towards that connection.
Very interesting, I have been wondering if I have some form of aphantasia for some time. I might be in the group with reduced capacity for mental imagery. I can place myself in the space of a memory to some extent, but the images are very vague and fleeting, more like silhouettes in a dense fog. How would one measure and quantify these subjective experiences in a scientific way?
Is there any relationship between ADHD and getting songs stuck in one’s head?
I have aphantasia and diagnosed adhd while also having high iq and mech engineering degree.
I agree with all that is said in this video and can also testify to the truths here unmentioned. It definitely warrants more research as i believe there are, in this very area, important underlying connections to understand and empower oneself with.
I probably have couple years old rants saved that speak about this very matter.
Its about time. Thank you for this.
Thanks Russell, very interesting video with some new stuff I didn’t know about Aphantasia.
If you are interested, I would love a video on SDAM too. 🤞
I imagine not being able to picture things makes it so much harder to stay on track to reach any goal. How can you feel motivated by an outcome you cannot even imagine?
I’m absolutely a diagnosed ADHD girly with aphantasia. I wish so much that I will one day be able to see an image in my mind but I just can’t. I do get a sensation in my mind that I can only describe as “seeing” but it’s not visual. I just don’t have a word for it. It’s like a different form of thought than my usual inner dialog.
I am going into my 3rd year in psychology, I WAS on track for honours but had a rough past 2 semesters... still my interests align well with researching, maybe I can use my ambitions to motivate me more where stimulant medication has not been as effective. Somehow, I even love stats. If I make it into honours I would be honoured (pun intended) to propose your hypothesis for my thesis.
I always thought I had didn't have dreams and could not imagine things, but when I got hyperfixated on lucid dreaming and started writing down my dreams, I noticed how from 0 my dream memory became 1080p 60fps with details and stuff. Obviously eventually enthusiasm dropped off later and I am back to the state of barely able to imagine even a stain of an apple, I think for the most part it is possible to develop imagination even with ADHD (though ofc everyone is different and maybe just unlucky), at least if you had bits of it available before.
If aphantasia were my only issue, i could've considered it a superpower in some sense. By removing all superficial details it kind of forces abstract thinking and that feels kind of important in programmers job.
Unfortunately, I can't make full use of it, due to brain fog, dissociation, executive disfunction, etc.
As an ADHD brain with mind blindness, I’m curious about so many hypotheses around Aphantasia. I have a very chatty brain, lots of subvocalization, my AuDHD daughter has neither the voice nor the imagery. There has to be so much information worth researching regarding how different types of aphantasia affect learning and general processing of the world around us.
@2:12 This is my greatest epiphany of the video. I have known that I have 100% (or damn near) aphantasia, but this is something else. It explains why I don't ever feel connected with others, feel in awe at great sights, moved by music, and so on; it basically has made me feel dead inside all of my life.
That sound more like depression. Aphantasia do not impact your life that greatly and maybe you feel that way because you have and untreated comorbid like autism, anxienty, adhd.
I would look more into this.
I have an experience in my 20's where instantly I saw hues for lack of a better description.
When you first put on new glasses everything looks clearer, well this was like seeing all the differences of the greens in the trees as I was driving. It was remarkable. I never realized what I was missing. I love the colors of sunrise, sunset, the lake water but I know that on one day colors became vivid.
I'm an aphant with diagnosed ADHD. Thanks for sharing
Thanks to Russell drilling into my head how much better i was off on meds I'm going back for another prescription for Concerta on Friday. Its been almost five years. As for Aphantasia, off meds I can imagine perfectly!! But it fades INSTANTLY!!! lol..so what's the point. On meds i can hold the image for really as long as i need it, and can re-call it in an instant. Off meds once its gone.
I have aphantasia and ADHD, but none of the listed related conditions seem to apply. Rather -- and this is something I've heard in descriptions of typical aphantasia -- my mental imagery shuts off while I am awake. I can dream visually, but as I wake up, it gets shut down. And as I am falling asleep, I start to have mental images appear. Losing access to interesting dreams can be frustrating when I don't want them to go away, but I do get that one would not want to "remember" a dream as though it were real. I can imagine sound, and in fact, this can be intrusive...having a musical sound track running unless I intentionally attempt to control it. Mental rehearsal of movement also seems not to have a necessary connection to visualization, because what one is rehearsing is muscle movement. It does not help me to "practice" to imagine seeing a person doing it...what I need is to go through the motor actions, but disconnected from producing motor signals.
Oh my, THIS! You sound closest to what I experience.
I only heard of this within the last couple years.
I couldn't do math in my head. I can't see images when asked to imagine. I have a hard time with facial memory. In college I took a problem solving class and it shot my grades up. At university I had my first professor who suggested I was dyslexic..
I can't recall large parts of my childhood and although nobody ever suggested ADHD I had a problem daydreaming or dissocociating.
I have to do to learn. I can visualize dreams and it has always been upsetting when I lose what I was deep in thought about.
I can hear sound memories I suppose. I didn't know why it would happen, as well as feelings.
I used to focus on photo albums but when visiting they were different, in reverse or something.
I don't know what the take away is but I really feel studies need to be done.
I have ADHA and struggle with mental imagery. Never understood why people would say imagine you are on a beach. My brain echos, “imagine you are on a beach” and that’s pretty much it. If I do get a fleeting glimpse of a beech imagine it goes by so fast I can’t control what type of beach, who is on it, the surroundings. It’s like blinking your eyes, that momentary flicker of your lids coming down, that the amount of visual imagery. My brain never stops its inner monologue
I have little capacity for visualization, but my auditory recall is quite high for music. Must be why I gravitated towards two degrees in music and subsequent career in radio
Thought I might have hypophantasia (not absent, but weak), but took a test online for it and it suggests I'm average. Not sure if the two disorders are linked, but I will say this. I don't particularly *enjoy* trying to imagine things because even if I can conjure the imagery on demand, it requires too much focus to maintain more than a flash or a hint of what I was looking for.
Which could definitely impact working memory.
I'm an artist with ADHD and a very hyperactive imagination (possibly hyperphantasia?)
but is that the only way you think, do you also have a voice narrating events? or criticizing you constantly
@mimosveta yes to all of these, while having another "browser tab" in my brain where it's vividly replaying random scenes from the episode I watched yesterday, another tab where I'll hear a random music I like, another tab where I imagine a new art idea i want to draw, and another one where I'm imagining the exact sequence of tasks I'm about to do when I go downstairs so I don't forget (spoilers: I'll forget about it) but some of these tabs will randomly disappear in my brain and reappear again for the next 5 minutes 🤷♂️🤷♂️
@@mimosveta yes I do
Yes, it seems strange to think of how often ADHD is associated with artists and then to simultaneously imagine it is associated with inability to generate internal worlds. My issue is more so "maladaptive daydreaming" where I should be doing work, but my brain would rather think about poems, and pictures, and the soft breath of a woman whispering in my ear, or the taste of an avocado and bacon sandwich on sourdough, or floating naked in a pool on a Florida summer night.
@@mrPuddiCake that sounds tiring! ( And potentially exciting, in some ways.
I probably used to be more like that. Trying to write something based on a load of papers I've read is a bit like having loads of tabs open though. My mind wants to follow ideas that interest me and go off at a tangent! Are you good at getting your art finished or do your other tabs distract you?
Was the Default Mode Network mentioned in this? From what I recall reading is that the DMN is more active in ADHD and would be less active in someone with aphantasia. For me, I have a movie playing almost constantly over my visual reality. I'm basically in augmented reality without the glasses.
Another personal account. I can generate pictures in my mind, but cannot visualise processes very well. So practising actions in my mind is just an impossibility. Hearing an account generates definitely enough emotion, but certainly no full sensory whole set szenic film. It's all pretty static pictures. My verbal memory, retaining facts linked by logic is absolutely outstanding. I'm plenty creative, made up stories since I could verbalise them, but I HAVE to verbalise to connect those internal pictures.
omg me too
My mind is blown that there is a word for this, let alone a known and researched condition. I think I have aphantasia, and it is very difficult for me to reconcile with it because I used to have a very vivid imagination when I was a kid and I miss it dearly. I am wondering if there is something I can do to bring my imagination back.
I wonder what is source of comorbidity of ADHD and dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia mayby common origins ? so genes overlapping ? any evidence of correlation of structural or functional brain organization ?
Very interesting. I wonder if there’s a connection between non verbal working memory and Prosopagnosia (face blindness)? Are there any studies about that issue?
Could it be rather simple?
1 Neurotransmitter amount
2 amount of Neurotransmitter Transporter
3 activation threshhold of a nerve cell
4 what specific region in the brain hast what amount of 1, 2 and 3
If we could measure those 4 things could we then explain adhd, adhd inatentive presentation, cognitive disengagement syndrome, autism and so on?
And thank you for the videos 👍
Wonder what cross over this had with SPD sensory processing disorder
I have both Aphantasia and ADHD....only realized I had Aphantasia when I was probably 35 and just discovered I have ADHD at 38. Let's just say I feel like I'm just finally learning how to live.
I often have to speak, write or perform an action or thought. I do not have difficulty generating the images. It is more an intense overload of every possible action or reaction
I wonder if roleplaying and improv may be a medium for practice for individuals with aphantasia.
I have ADHD and total aphantasia, I can't visualise anything whatsoever.
any tips?
@@MrPotatoGamer No 😥
Very interested in the links here.
Im 68 and only recently discovered I have aphantasia or rather should I say that others can still visualize images. I have many a time tried looking at something then close my eyes and tried to visualize it without success not knowing it was common amongst Neuro typical. One time I actually did manage to see a clear image and it scared the hell out of me fearing that what would happen if I had to continuously see images not able to shut it down. I actually feel sorry for the 98 percent that still do. I've been working on a theory of consciousness and how the brain operates with great success and are currently working on a book Dimensions of Reality which will literally change our understanding forever. Aphantasia is a gift with a far superior way of processing information rather than merely having the ability of accumulating and regurgitating information. I wouldn't change my mindset for anything in the world.
This is the first time in my life I have ever heard of this. Depressing, that I am in the category that has a hard time visualizing. I've had people imply that I was stupid because I couldn't do math in my head very well. It makes sense that I could never remember much of my childhood.
It's not always pleasant things. I can see image or a video of me opening a fridge when I was a kid hearing air raid siren and running down the stairs without my parents during war in Yugoslavia in 1999, or seing a damaged building in my street for first time. My mother crying when she returned from food market where cluster bombs were dropped. I don't remember much else from that year.
Is this why I find I need to draw out even relatively simple assemblies?
100% correct @60 plus Know you Know Doc. n glad I found you.All this has explained a lot of why things have happened in life
nothing to complain about now just understand more n yes nothing's Easy about all this looking normal but different.Funny thing nobody told me till 51 yrs old n wish others could understand really. It's Hard on oneself it never Stops anyway Life is Good cause every min.is new lol
I had severe difficulty with getting lost, not being able to follow directions to walk or drive to places, not being able to go on hikes I had gone on many times with a partner because of getting lost -- until dx and then Adderall. Now I can "see" in mind where I am going rather than relying 100 on verbally memorizing directions. I hope someone will do research about this someday.
Aphantasia is due to the lack of a conscious Si function - it is my hypothesis that it is more prevalent amongst the NJ types (ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ).
Note that aphantasia relates to object visualization. You can have very good visual-spatial ability though. In fact, I've read somewhere that there may be a trade-off between these abilities. I've heard studies on prodigies have shown that most types of prodigies have high iq, which is basically a test of visual spatual abilities, except prodigies in the vusual arts, who are clearly geniuses but not in the iq way. Temple Grandin is an extreme object visualuzer, but she stuggles with the abstact categorization needed for algebra. Obviously, that's an n of 1, but my adhd brain has a lot of hypothesises based on an n of 1.
I suffer when it comes to a sense of direction and cannot spatially see how furniture or cabinets would fit in a space.
It the dark I have to use touch to navigate.
Interesting! I haven't quite finished listening. I'm guessing there's a lot of variety. I am highly visual, and good at imagining all senses. I used to have an almost photographic memory for learning things I was interested in when I was stimulated by the subject. However, as I've got older with multiple demands I'm pretty dependent on the visual of writing things down for remembering information. I'm not good at selecting information when faced with lots of writing. It's information overload. Whereas with hearing information I retain things and think about them well and picture what I'm thinking about as well. I think laterally and make connections and listen.
I am dyspraxic as well so if someone explains how to do a complex nechanical task, I can see exactly what to do. I find it hard to translate it into action e.g. mountain biking skills. I need explanation of tge task broken down into steps/how it works so I can see each step. Other things I follow really easily e.g. cooking something because I can imagine it, and I'm already doing it in my mind.
As ADHD overlaps with dyspraxia, ASC, dyslexia etc, I imagine that there is a lot of variety.
Interesting to see people's responses already and it will be interesting to see what follows!!
I have gone to neurologist with these kinds of symptoms and they told me to take MRI. And they found nothing on the MRI. Except for the "partial empty cellae" which is usually found incindental aswell.
Wait so do people actually see things when they close their eyes?
I can think of image's, but the fades off into scattered thoughts in a second
Good friend of mine has ADHD (inatenttive) and aphantasia. (Which is mindblowingly fascinating to me!)
I have also ADHD (mix of all), but I can vividly imagine a lot.
We're at the opposite ends of being able to imagine!
I agree mind blowing, as I am primarily inattentive, my mind is in a rabbit hole of questions, daydreams, old memories as well as daily chores and what's for dinner at any given moment!
ohh thanks I have both
Now I need to know - can people remember smells? And remember other people's voices? And touch!?
Oh I'm starting to get worried - I remember movement, descriptions and internal feelings - am I missing more than just an ability to generate a mental image?
I do have ADHD, not treated at the moment unfortunately.
I will say, I do experience emotion from stories I read or hear if it's something I've gone through, because then I can imagine the internal feelings behind the words. I can actually be very sensitive to certain things.
Is mirroring theory still valid? I have my doubts about it - simply from the fact that I've never learned anything by imitating others (teachers), but by figuring it out by myself (bicycle) or reading manuals (computer). I have neither ADHD or Asperger, and I function very well in the society.
Could it be Hyperphantasia (the opposite?)... a lot of sensory / textural challenges / OCD? overactive imagery etc?
What the hell! I knew that I had no minds eye, but people can generate smell, hearing, and touch? I feel so robbed.
What do you feel about Dr Amen and SPECT imaging for ADHD
AuDHD (Autism + ADHD) here. I have fairly strong visual aphantasia (can only imagine vague contours for brief moments), but I have extreme sensory sensitivity (visual, auditory, olfactory and tactile). I think Aphantasia may be linked more strongly to autism rather than ADHD, based on a small circle of people I have known with various combinations of ADHD/Autism/Aphantasia.
Would parent/child interactions early in life help or hinder the development of that part of the brain?
So, really weird question...you spoke that aphantasia may be associated with other diminished senses...does this mean someone with aphantasia might not be unexpected to have an extremely(potentially dangerous) level of pain tolerance?
The other day I splashed my stomach with hot grease while cooking, and while I felt the splash and warmth, I did not realize until later that I actually had a pretty significant quarter sized burn that took a couple weeks to heal that caused me no pain. I also didn't complain as a child when I broke my collarbone, and my parents almost got in trouble for child abuse since it took them days to realize I was injured so I was delayed getting to the hospital.
Love your work Russell. If there was a path to PhD in your field in Australia and a supervisor in Australia, you can point me to I am interested
Dr. Barkley have ever considered making use of the TH-cam pills feature to get an idea of your audiences adhd symptoms, tendencies etc? I realize it is less scientific than a lab study but I still think it could have useful purposes for both you and your audience.