absolutely the same. this is why I thought i couldn't be an artist. I have always feared something happening and having to describe someone to the police because I can't picture the person or really remember their face unless I see it again
Oh man I got accused of lying to the police because I got some info wrong (this was over 10 years ago) it sucked. Also did you become an artist? Never stop following your dreams. I make video games , aphantasia hasn't stopped me yet ♡
Yep. Aphantasia and Adhd. Fun combination. Ironically my aphantasia is why I became an artist. I couldn't picture the things I wanted to remember the most. My 9 year old also has it. But my 25 year old and my 5 year old are both normal. Oddly I didn't even realize it was a thing until a few years back. I just thought it was the single more boring exercise in the world when your teacher or counselor or therapist told you to close your eyes and picture something.
This is exactly my brain! Music yes. Words yes. Pictures no. Black void yes. This is also why I enjoy film or tv adaptations because I can't see the characters or world on my own.
When I learn a new thing, I MUST take notes, otherwise I can’t remember it, so when you talked about writing as a way of seeing, it made total sense. I do have an internal dialogue going, a radio station (current song is: “I will remember you”), I can’t imagine how something feels without actually being in the process of feeling it. I can’t picture a landscape or map, but I can actually look at a map once or twice and imagine navigating around but not see it. Or I can physically navigate around very accurately. It’s like I have a bird’s eye view. I do get confused in neighbourhoods where the houses all look the same, ditto for forests.
Exactly this. The “inside of your eyelid” comment is precisely how it feels when I try to visualize something. My imagination works just fine though. I can lay in bed and build worlds in my mind, but cannot bring an apple or a car to mind on command. Sometimes I wonder if it is a function of my ASD and how my brain routes information.
As far as I know, Aphantasia isn't associated with ASD specifically, but it is not terribly uncommon. Though I have aphantasia as well and I likely would have been diagnosed with ASD were I not old enough that the assessments I've had predate the DSM-5. A lot of people with Aphantasia don't really realize it for a while - I went through about 33 years of life thinking "visualizing" was a metaphor for "thinking about" until finally I came across an article that said "Did you know there are people who can't make images in their head?" and I read it thinking "it's standard for people to be able to just conjure images with their mind and actually see them wtf?" and went through several days of discussing it with people in order to learn that yes, this is an ability most people have and completely take for granted. As word spreads online about it, more and more folks are having this realization.
This is so interesting to me because everything youve said about aphantasia is exactly how I experience it too, but *I dont have an inner monologue!!!* Its *ALL* abstract thought for me and its very weird and very confusing lol
I have aphantasia! I also do not have an internal monologue and cannot recreate sounds in my head like music I've heard before. Basically the same concept, just with sounds. I have memories of music, so I know what they sound like, but if you asked me to sing a song in my head, I'd just recall the memory of the song but not actually hear anything. It completely blew my mind when I found out people can do that. Then it completely blew my mind even more when I was diagnosed with ADHD, because people would always talk about the constant thoughts and how it's so loud in their head. While I also have the constant thoughts, I don't hear them, but my head just feels heavy and overwhelmed. So when I started ADHD meds, I'd hear people say how their head just went quiet. Well technically mine is always quiet, it just felt overwhelmed. It's like my head got lighter, and that how I knew the meds were working. I think lacking both these things heavily contributes to my poor memory.
I don’t have an inner monologue either! I didn’t realize inner monologues were even real until I was like 26. I remember thinking “it’s so weird that movies and film use the inner monologue technique so much when that’s not how thoughts even work.” Ooop.
It's so nice to hear other people talk about their experience with aphantasia. I feel like such an outlier not being able to picture things. That moment when the DM asks everyone to describe what their character looks like is so stressful.
So good to see you posting long format content! Also very excited about your upcoming pilot, whenever it drops. I hope you can talk at some point about your mind-palace. I think I've only heard you mention it once in passing, but I'm intrigued.
When someone says, "picture a blue apple", we understand the concept of blue and apple. Our brains in milliseconds access the files necessary to describe an apple. It's like being super adept at those old catalog systems at the library when everyone else has Google. Imagine the disadvantage in grade school. I'm interested to know the percentage of people with ASD AND Aphantasia and if they're linked.
I had no idea this was an neurodivergence. I just thought I couldn't focus enough to maintain an image in my head, and that it was hard for everyone. I'm glad you also mentioned that there are degrees of aphantasia because it helps me comprehend it as a continuum. I can visualize a 2D image of the apple, but I have to concentrate to keep it there, and its pretty faded anyway. My usual thoughts are simply an internal audio-like monologue. I compensate for this in the same way I compensate for limited working memory by using visual aids or as I once read it being put I use "external memory" to help me keep track of things. I've never thought of aphantasia as a disadvantage because I never imagined people could have a different conscious experience. Even spacial problems are okay by me because I can concentrate on the features in front of me to work out how they would reorient. However, I might have difficulty preventing myself from impulsively reaching out to grab the object if it was a physical manipulable.
This explains why I can draw from observation but not draw items easily from imagination! I drew a very funky bike from memory once. Now I kinda want to try more and see what I come up with!
2:15 You only actively view images when writing and that is the only time that I can’t. I need to process by speaking. I talk to myself a lot. Great fun at parties.
Wow. This was so helpful hearing an adult describe their experience with aphantasia. 👏 My child has this --- I never knew it existed until last year. Or that there are variations. --- My brain 😅🧠😆 is like ...Blender, for a 3D printer. I can test and manipulate inanimate objects and visual design for patterns, layouts, graphic design; for sewing, pattern drafting & design, costumes I want to work on, etc. (Jingle Jangle was the first time I've seen a visual representation of what I can do in my head 😆 minus the numerical calculations. I have dyscalculia and CANNOT visualize numbers or do any mental math for the life of me. --- As a child, I always thought it was a flaw or "weird fluke"; something to hide and be embarrassed over. It took decades to discover, hey, it's just one way a brain can work, and there are LOTS of ways brains work for people! 💛🧠
…THIS IS A FUCKING THING?!?! I’m almost furious. The amount of times I get teased or just straight up blank stares from people that don’t believe me when I tell them I can’t do this.
this is super awesome to see because I also have aphantasia, so it's nice to see some content around the subject. For context I'm ftm, im a twin, I have adhd and aphantasia. I always thought I was weird , ever since I was a kid when I couldn't sleep I'd get told to count sheep. "Picture the sheep jumping over a fence and count the sleep as they go by." My twin sister could do this super easy and I was always like "am I doing it wrong. Why can't I see anything" etc. So I would just say "one sheep, two sheep, three sheep" in my head. Eventually I figured it out, 2015 the term aphantasia was coined in Exeter and I heard about others "like me" afew years later. It was nice to know I'm not alone. Because of my aphantasia I can't see anything in my head (I also can't hear other voices, or music. It's literally just the back of my eye lids/black and my inner head voice talking my thoughts.) Because of that I draw alot , they are not very good pictures, I draw what I wish I could see I guess, but I find it super helpful to work out problems and stuff if I note things down or draw it out and make a plan. I rarely stick to the plan but it's super helpful to have a visual aid for the aphantasia, especially when it comes to my video game development and my dnd campaigns. It would be nice to hear how other people work around their aphantasia. I'm 28 and I feel like I know nothing about anything and I would love to see a video based around how your aphantasia, if your cool talking about it. Also him chatting about being able to move stuff around is mad, what? How can people do that? Is it liking moving around an object in blendr? My brain 🧠 I would love to know how aphantasia effects smexy time (not yours specifically, but in general, like people say oh yeah I was thinking of this person while we were doing it, and I have no idea how that works with people.) But also sorry this is a mess of a message haha
It’s so interesting to hear this because I do have a strong imagination with the 3D ecc that I barely have a hold on (my intrusive thoughts are like being locked in a horror only movie teatre) but I too struggle so much with faces and names in the exact same way! Like I still remember the earrings my friend wore the first time I met her but for like a year after I did not remember her face or name. I kept introducing myself to my cousins at family gatherings until facebook came out and I could look at their face next to their names for hours.
I describe it as if you stood behind me. I know you're there, I can sense it, just like I know what an apple looks like, but I can't see you or it. It's an odd thing to live with once you're aware of it, I usually forget but every so often I have a weird moment when I can't do something like others do because of aphantasia.
I have been telling people about my experiences with aphantasia a lot lately. I cannot visualize anything, not even memories. I dream in images, I cannot recall them after I wake up, but I remember seeing things. That being said, I can imagine in touch and space. I can close my eyes and imagine large spaces like I am feeling them but I can't see them. The best way I can explain it is like sonar from my hands. I can imagine and "feel" things significantly larger than I would ever be able to hold, but I feel it in my hands and arms.
I feel this so hard! I couldn't picture a face or spaces/maps if you held a gun to my head.. I can sort of "see" the apple but I can't manipulate it. And I can definitely only picture things that I have ACTUALLY seen before, can't "come up" with a new image "from scratch" 🤔
This is me and one of my roommates! We both have ADHD, she's an artist and she can conjure anything in her head, rotate it, and even picture it in a room. Example: she wants to move the cabinet to the other side of the room? She can *see* it there. I, on the other hand, can't see shit and also believe it's fake. (Not really, but it seriously sounds like someone's trying to gaslight me).
this happens to me soo often and its over things that to other people are so simple. like math problems my brain knows the basics and understands that this should be a simple easy thing to follow say like simple 2 digit multiplecation and well i know i can do it if i try to do so just in my head i cant, i have to either write it in the air or on paper because i forget where im at etc
They made me prove I didn't cheat on a "spatial relations" test -- but I can't do arithmetic in my head. If I had not hid my fingers under the desk, maybe they would have noticed and found my ADHD in the 1960s. Instead I got diagnosed last week.
I'm nearly the same. The exception is to the writing thing. I think I visualize most when I see myself doing or being in the scenario. like a map I can visualize myself where I am in relation to other objects around me. Love the conversation!
Thank you so much for the tidbit about writing. I thought I couldn’t have aphantasia because I write very vividly. But you’re right, it’s all from taped together memory bits. I can bring up memories and dreams, but God help you if you want me to envision an object on a map. Haven’t seen it, don’t know it. But when I spell words out loud, it’s the memory of the word on the page that I see, and I have to read it off of the page to even begin to start spelling it. I’m good at it now, but I dread starting to lose my memory, because everything is going to go with it. I also, weirdly, feel like I have to actively translate concept/sensation/memory/feeling into words when I talk, and then back into those pure sensory/analytical/remembered experiences when I listen. I love words, but they’re like an awkward second language for my brain. I’m auDHD, so maybe that’s the autistic part kicking in. I know “thinking in pictures” is a common thing for other autistic people. I’m curious if it’s actually pictures, or if other ND folks get *all* the memories, associations, possibilities at once like me. It makes it hard to assemble sentences in real-time because that floods my working memory pretty quickly, and then I don’t remember what I’ve said or what the other person has said very well. My auditory system is the worst at spoken language. Make it music or poetry and it will hold onto it for life, but just plain information bounces off the surface and is gone. In fact, I’m so visual (but also sort of aphantasic?) that sound disappears when I’m reading.
Yep, I can't visualize, but I can conceptualize like a beast. I can't see the apple in my head, but I can tell you what color, how tall, how round, how soft, how crunchy, how long the stem is, how many twists it would take to pop the stem off, how loud the peeling sound is when I take the first bite, how juicy it is and how much gets on the hand that is holding it, the different things I would be doing while eating said apple... But I don't see a thing.
I wonder if the language centers in catieosaurus's brain are very well developed and has developed connections to bypass the weak or missing connections that enable visualization and memories, the same thing where to remember something visual it bypasses using the "minds eye" and goes right to the visual centers kinda skipping a set of connections involved with creation of the image but it still appears in those cases. Recently nerded out about neurobiology. Thinking of these things are fun
Did anyone else feel like visualization tasks in school or whatnot were just weird because of an inability to picture things? I, honestly, thought that everyone was faking it. I explained it to someone once that I can remember things that I have seen, or experienced, so it's sort of like having a tab open in my brain, but I can't just conjure it up.
When my husband and I first got together, we were having a conversation about something and he said "I can't remember if I read that or watched it' (in the context of a fictional story). Totally blew my mind. Like, I thought all the scenes in books, movies, whatever, where they are so involved in their imagination that they can actually interact and I thought it was just like.... Cinematic exaggeration. Then a bunch of TH-camrs I follow started talking about it and I was like "ooooh". I do require people to maintain a "look", or I won't recognize them easily. One of my coworkers changed her glasses and hair and I spent half the day trying to figure out who she was....
This is an interesting comment. I can read a book and see it like a movie in my mind based on the descriptions… but when it comes to picturing something in my mind on command like their apple thing, I remember memories of an apple and can think of those memories but it’s not anything I can manipulate in my head. And her comment at the end about writing things in the air, I do that too!! Or I know how to spell something but I can’t tell you how I know it’s right or not. 😆
Okay, I can picture stuff on my head and sensations and all that, yet I'm terrible with names, okay-ish with faces, and I also do that thing where info is locked until someone says the exact right things to unlock the floodgates. Absolutely bonkers
I also can't picture anything, it was mind blowing when I found out people actually picture things in their head, it's not just a phrase. I think in, like, sentences and inner dialogue. I also don't have visual memories like you described, I don't think? My memories are also thoughts and feelings.
I was a hypnotist for 15 years. I have tried to train myself to see things in my Mind and sometimes I can catch a glimpse but almost never. However I have been told I can weave the most beautiful visualizations for others in trance. Also I CAN imagine tactically and in audio
I don’t have an inner monologue; words just come. The only way I can describe it is a cloud of feelings and concepts that don’t become language until I say them. Are these related?
One of my biggest jealousies is people saying reading a book can be akin to a movie. I enjoy reading, but there's no visuals in my head. Just words on paper and their meaning in context. But it certainly doesn't shut out artistic ability, i think a good number of Pixar's lead animators in the 50s and 60s had aphantasia. Plus I play guitar like G
To help me remember what to buy at the store sometimes I have to bring the empty coffee bag, egg carton, etc!!! Because I’m going to forget the list or lose it.
I have the problem with putting the images I have in my head into words, and that is despite having a running monologue of my current train of thought.
If they lose their keys, for example, don’t ask them to visualize where they saw them last, as an example. Also, they might have a hard time beginning a task. Because they can’t visualize the end product, they don’t know where to start. An example that I read was asking your child to get their backpack ready for school. It helps if you show them a picture of the end result you would like: a backpack with notebooks, pencil case, lunch already inside. Then they know what they need to do.
If somebody describes directions and I've driven it, I can picture a 3d map that rotates as I make turns. I zone out when that happens though, but I can trigger it any time.
I thought everyone can see like me. I can be watching a movie be bored with it and start watching a movie in my mind while a movie is playing. If I can get my images onto paper ide be rich
What about dreams? I rarely remember them, but they're the closest I get to visualization. What I do recall is fragmented. It's like someone is flashing images for half a second on a screen in a darkened room while they narrate the story.
I think I'm at like a 4-5 on the imagining scale. I can imagine things when I focus on a particular section but then it's gone when I move on to another part. I really struggle with words because to me they're just symbols and the only way they have meaning is when they're arranged in a certain order.
I don't know what you do to the audio of these videos, but I cannot hear a WORD of the dialogue. And it's not my PC, as I can watch videos normally, and I can only not hear your content :(
So something I have observed, in an admittedly small sample size, is that everyone I know with aphantasia is a woman. So I wonder if any studies have been done on any gender and/or sex bias studies on it?
This is kind of funny because I'm virtually the opposite, images and sounds only no text. When someone asks "how do you spell x" first of all your dumb to ask me because I can't spell well, at all. Secondly I need to write it down because I can't just see it in my mind.
I can't visualize at all, and have no internal monologue. I can understand words in my head, but self-talk is entirely out loud. It has made for some uncomfortable interactions.
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absolutely the same. this is why I thought i couldn't be an artist. I have always feared something happening and having to describe someone to the police because I can't picture the person or really remember their face unless I see it again
Oh man I got accused of lying to the police because I got some info wrong (this was over 10 years ago) it sucked.
Also did you become an artist?
Never stop following your dreams.
I make video games , aphantasia hasn't stopped me yet ♡
@Sammi Evans I do like creating now. I am still very shy about showing it off or sharing it though.
Yep. Aphantasia and Adhd. Fun combination. Ironically my aphantasia is why I became an artist. I couldn't picture the things I wanted to remember the most. My 9 year old also has it. But my 25 year old and my 5 year old are both normal. Oddly I didn't even realize it was a thing until a few years back. I just thought it was the single more boring exercise in the world when your teacher or counselor or therapist told you to close your eyes and picture something.
This is exactly my brain! Music yes. Words yes. Pictures no. Black void yes.
This is also why I enjoy film or tv adaptations because I can't see the characters or world on my own.
When I learn a new thing, I MUST take notes, otherwise I can’t remember it, so when you talked about writing as a way of seeing, it made total sense. I do have an internal dialogue going, a radio station (current song is: “I will remember you”), I can’t imagine how something feels without actually being in the process of feeling it. I can’t picture a landscape or map, but I can actually look at a map once or twice and imagine navigating around but not see it. Or I can physically navigate around very accurately. It’s like I have a bird’s eye view. I do get confused in neighbourhoods where the houses all look the same, ditto for forests.
Exactly this. The “inside of your eyelid” comment is precisely how it feels when I try to visualize something. My imagination works just fine though. I can lay in bed and build worlds in my mind, but cannot bring an apple or a car to mind on command.
Sometimes I wonder if it is a function of my ASD and how my brain routes information.
As far as I know, Aphantasia isn't associated with ASD specifically, but it is not terribly uncommon. Though I have aphantasia as well and I likely would have been diagnosed with ASD were I not old enough that the assessments I've had predate the DSM-5.
A lot of people with Aphantasia don't really realize it for a while - I went through about 33 years of life thinking "visualizing" was a metaphor for "thinking about" until finally I came across an article that said "Did you know there are people who can't make images in their head?" and I read it thinking "it's standard for people to be able to just conjure images with their mind and actually see them wtf?" and went through several days of discussing it with people in order to learn that yes, this is an ability most people have and completely take for granted. As word spreads online about it, more and more folks are having this realization.
This is so interesting to me because everything youve said about aphantasia is exactly how I experience it too, but *I dont have an inner monologue!!!* Its *ALL* abstract thought for me and its very weird and very confusing lol
I have aphantasia! I also do not have an internal monologue and cannot recreate sounds in my head like music I've heard before. Basically the same concept, just with sounds. I have memories of music, so I know what they sound like, but if you asked me to sing a song in my head, I'd just recall the memory of the song but not actually hear anything. It completely blew my mind when I found out people can do that. Then it completely blew my mind even more when I was diagnosed with ADHD, because people would always talk about the constant thoughts and how it's so loud in their head. While I also have the constant thoughts, I don't hear them, but my head just feels heavy and overwhelmed. So when I started ADHD meds, I'd hear people say how their head just went quiet. Well technically mine is always quiet, it just felt overwhelmed. It's like my head got lighter, and that how I knew the meds were working. I think lacking both these things heavily contributes to my poor memory.
I don’t have an inner monologue either! I didn’t realize inner monologues were even real until I was like 26. I remember thinking “it’s so weird that movies and film use the inner monologue technique so much when that’s not how thoughts even work.” Ooop.
It's so nice to hear other people talk about their experience with aphantasia. I feel like such an outlier not being able to picture things. That moment when the DM asks everyone to describe what their character looks like is so stressful.
So good to see you posting long format content! Also very excited about your upcoming pilot, whenever it drops.
I hope you can talk at some point about your mind-palace. I think I've only heard you mention it once in passing, but I'm intrigued.
When someone says, "picture a blue apple", we understand the concept of blue and apple. Our brains in milliseconds access the files necessary to describe an apple. It's like being super adept at those old catalog systems at the library when everyone else has Google. Imagine the disadvantage in grade school. I'm interested to know the percentage of people with ASD AND Aphantasia and if they're linked.
I had no idea this was an neurodivergence. I just thought I couldn't focus enough to maintain an image in my head, and that it was hard for everyone. I'm glad you also mentioned that there are degrees of aphantasia because it helps me comprehend it as a continuum.
I can visualize a 2D image of the apple, but I have to concentrate to keep it there, and its pretty faded anyway. My usual thoughts are simply an internal audio-like monologue. I compensate for this in the same way I compensate for limited working memory by using visual aids or as I once read it being put I use "external memory" to help me keep track of things.
I've never thought of aphantasia as a disadvantage because I never imagined people could have a different conscious experience. Even spacial problems are okay by me because I can concentrate on the features in front of me to work out how they would reorient. However, I might have difficulty preventing myself from impulsively reaching out to grab the object if it was a physical manipulable.
This explains why I can draw from observation but not draw items easily from imagination! I drew a very funky bike from memory once. Now I kinda want to try more and see what I come up with!
I can’t hear, see, smell or feel “in my head” it’s just silence and thoughts and memories. It’s so cool to hear someone talk about this!!
I have this too, all of my information in my head is like a list of facts about apples but not an image.
2:15 You only actively view images when writing and that is the only time that I can’t. I need to process by speaking. I talk to myself a lot. Great fun at parties.
Ugh- I literally make flash cards w names to learn them…I feel your pain- so much effort
Wow. This was so helpful hearing an adult describe their experience with aphantasia. 👏 My child has this --- I never knew it existed until last year. Or that there are variations. --- My brain 😅🧠😆 is like ...Blender, for a 3D printer. I can test and manipulate inanimate objects and visual design for patterns, layouts, graphic design; for sewing, pattern drafting & design, costumes I want to work on, etc. (Jingle Jangle was the first time I've seen a visual representation of what I can do in my head 😆 minus the numerical calculations. I have dyscalculia and CANNOT visualize numbers or do any mental math for the life of me. --- As a child, I always thought it was a flaw or "weird fluke"; something to hide and be embarrassed over. It took decades to discover, hey, it's just one way a brain can work, and there are LOTS of ways brains work for people! 💛🧠
…THIS IS A FUCKING THING?!?! I’m almost furious. The amount of times I get teased or just straight up blank stares from people that don’t believe me when I tell them I can’t do this.
That’s how I remember songs. I visualize the lyrics as a story of images. OMG this is my life!
this is super awesome to see because I also have aphantasia, so it's nice to see some content around the subject.
For context I'm ftm, im a twin, I have adhd and aphantasia.
I always thought I was weird , ever since I was a kid when I couldn't sleep I'd get told to count sheep. "Picture the sheep jumping over a fence and count the sleep as they go by." My twin sister could do this super easy and I was always like "am I doing it wrong. Why can't I see anything" etc. So I would just say "one sheep, two sheep, three sheep" in my head. Eventually I figured it out, 2015 the term aphantasia was coined in Exeter and I heard about others "like me" afew years later. It was nice to know I'm not alone.
Because of my aphantasia I can't see anything in my head (I also can't hear other voices, or music. It's literally just the back of my eye lids/black and my inner head voice talking my thoughts.) Because of that I draw alot , they are not very good pictures, I draw what I wish I could see I guess, but I find it super helpful to work out problems and stuff if I note things down or draw it out and make a plan. I rarely stick to the plan but it's super helpful to have a visual aid for the aphantasia, especially when it comes to my video game development and my dnd campaigns. It would be nice to hear how other people work around their aphantasia.
I'm 28 and I feel like I know nothing about anything and I would love to see a video based around how your aphantasia, if your cool talking about it.
Also him chatting about being able to move stuff around is mad, what? How can people do that? Is it liking moving around an object in blendr? My brain 🧠
I would love to know how aphantasia effects smexy time (not yours specifically, but in general, like people say oh yeah I was thinking of this person while we were doing it, and I have no idea how that works with people.)
But also sorry this is a mess of a message haha
It’s so interesting to hear this because I do have a strong imagination with the 3D ecc that I barely have a hold on (my intrusive thoughts are like being locked in a horror only movie teatre) but I too struggle so much with faces and names in the exact same way! Like I still remember the earrings my friend wore the first time I met her but for like a year after I did not remember her face or name. I kept introducing myself to my cousins at family gatherings until facebook came out and I could look at their face next to their names for hours.
I describe it as if you stood behind me. I know you're there, I can sense it, just like I know what an apple looks like, but I can't see you or it. It's an odd thing to live with once you're aware of it, I usually forget but every so often I have a weird moment when I can't do something like others do because of aphantasia.
im a “turn the photorealistic apple in ur head” sort of guy and my partner has aphantasia! this was interesting!
I have been telling people about my experiences with aphantasia a lot lately. I cannot visualize anything, not even memories. I dream in images, I cannot recall them after I wake up, but I remember seeing things.
That being said, I can imagine in touch and space. I can close my eyes and imagine large spaces like I am feeling them but I can't see them. The best way I can explain it is like sonar from my hands. I can imagine and "feel" things significantly larger than I would ever be able to hold, but I feel it in my hands and arms.
I can sort of think in 3D Space, so it’s so fascinating to hear how everyone else thinks!!
I feel this so hard! I couldn't picture a face or spaces/maps if you held a gun to my head.. I can sort of "see" the apple but I can't manipulate it. And I can definitely only picture things that I have ACTUALLY seen before, can't "come up" with a new image "from scratch" 🤔
This is me and one of my roommates! We both have ADHD, she's an artist and she can conjure anything in her head, rotate it, and even picture it in a room. Example: she wants to move the cabinet to the other side of the room? She can *see* it there. I, on the other hand, can't see shit and also believe it's fake. (Not really, but it seriously sounds like someone's trying to gaslight me).
this happens to me soo often and its over things that to other people are so simple. like math problems my brain knows the basics and understands that this should be a simple easy thing to follow say like simple 2 digit multiplecation and well i know i can do it if i try to do so just in my head i cant, i have to either write it in the air or on paper because i forget where im at etc
They made me prove I didn't cheat on a "spatial relations" test -- but I can't do arithmetic in my head. If I had not hid my fingers under the desk, maybe they would have noticed and found my ADHD in the 1960s. Instead I got diagnosed last week.
I'm nearly the same. The exception is to the writing thing. I think I visualize most when I see myself doing or being in the scenario. like a map I can visualize myself where I am in relation to other objects around me. Love the conversation!
Thank you so much for the tidbit about writing. I thought I couldn’t have aphantasia because I write very vividly. But you’re right, it’s all from taped together memory bits. I can bring up memories and dreams, but God help you if you want me to envision an object on a map. Haven’t seen it, don’t know it.
But when I spell words out loud, it’s the memory of the word on the page that I see, and I have to read it off of the page to even begin to start spelling it. I’m good at it now, but I dread starting to lose my memory, because everything is going to go with it.
I also, weirdly, feel like I have to actively translate concept/sensation/memory/feeling into words when I talk, and then back into those pure sensory/analytical/remembered experiences when I listen. I love words, but they’re like an awkward second language for my brain. I’m auDHD, so maybe that’s the autistic part kicking in. I know “thinking in pictures” is a common thing for other autistic people. I’m curious if it’s actually pictures, or if other ND folks get *all* the memories, associations, possibilities at once like me. It makes it hard to assemble sentences in real-time because that floods my working memory pretty quickly, and then I don’t remember what I’ve said or what the other person has said very well. My auditory system is the worst at spoken language. Make it music or poetry and it will hold onto it for life, but just plain information bounces off the surface and is gone. In fact, I’m so visual (but also sort of aphantasic?) that sound disappears when I’m reading.
Yep, I can't visualize, but I can conceptualize like a beast. I can't see the apple in my head, but I can tell you what color, how tall, how round, how soft, how crunchy, how long the stem is, how many twists it would take to pop the stem off, how loud the peeling sound is when I take the first bite, how juicy it is and how much gets on the hand that is holding it, the different things I would be doing while eating said apple... But I don't see a thing.
I wonder if the language centers in catieosaurus's brain are very well developed and has developed connections to bypass the weak or missing connections that enable visualization and memories, the same thing where to remember something visual it bypasses using the "minds eye" and goes right to the visual centers kinda skipping a set of connections involved with creation of the image but it still appears in those cases. Recently nerded out about neurobiology. Thinking of these things are fun
Did anyone else feel like visualization tasks in school or whatnot were just weird because of an inability to picture things? I, honestly, thought that everyone was faking it. I explained it to someone once that I can remember things that I have seen, or experienced, so it's sort of like having a tab open in my brain, but I can't just conjure it up.
When my husband and I first got together, we were having a conversation about something and he said "I can't remember if I read that or watched it' (in the context of a fictional story). Totally blew my mind. Like, I thought all the scenes in books, movies, whatever, where they are so involved in their imagination that they can actually interact and I thought it was just like.... Cinematic exaggeration.
Then a bunch of TH-camrs I follow started talking about it and I was like "ooooh".
I do require people to maintain a "look", or I won't recognize them easily. One of my coworkers changed her glasses and hair and I spent half the day trying to figure out who she was....
This is an interesting comment. I can read a book and see it like a movie in my mind based on the descriptions… but when it comes to picturing something in my mind on command like their apple thing, I remember memories of an apple and can think of those memories but it’s not anything I can manipulate in my head. And her comment at the end about writing things in the air, I do that too!! Or I know how to spell something but I can’t tell you how I know it’s right or not. 😆
OMG!!! I have that!!!! I now know how to describe it!! TY!!!!
Okay, I can picture stuff on my head and sensations and all that, yet I'm terrible with names, okay-ish with faces, and I also do that thing where info is locked until someone says the exact right things to unlock the floodgates.
Absolutely bonkers
I also can't picture anything, it was mind blowing when I found out people actually picture things in their head, it's not just a phrase. I think in, like, sentences and inner dialogue. I also don't have visual memories like you described, I don't think? My memories are also thoughts and feelings.
I was a hypnotist for 15 years. I have tried to train myself to see things in my
Mind and sometimes I can catch a glimpse but almost never. However I have been told I can weave the most beautiful visualizations for others in trance.
Also I CAN imagine tactically and in audio
I don’t have an inner monologue; words just come. The only way I can describe it is a cloud of feelings and concepts that don’t become language until I say them. Are these related?
One of my biggest jealousies is people saying reading a book can be akin to a movie. I enjoy reading, but there's no visuals in my head. Just words on paper and their meaning in context. But it certainly doesn't shut out artistic ability, i think a good number of Pixar's lead animators in the 50s and 60s had aphantasia. Plus I play guitar like G
To help me remember what to buy at the store sometimes I have to bring the empty coffee bag, egg carton, etc!!! Because I’m going to forget the list or lose it.
I have the problem with putting the images I have in my head into words, and that is despite having a running monologue of my current train of thought.
For those of us that do not struggle with this, how can we be supportive of those that deal with these challenges?
If they lose their keys, for example, don’t ask them to visualize where they saw them last, as an example.
Also, they might have a hard time beginning a task. Because they can’t visualize the end product, they don’t know where to start. An example that I read was asking your child to get their backpack ready for school. It helps if you show them a picture of the end result you would like: a backpack with notebooks, pencil case, lunch already inside. Then they know what they need to do.
Not me going to write something to see if I can see things in my head finally
I dont have a comment but I want the TH-cam gods to see engagement. So imagine a very engaging comment placed here.
If somebody describes directions and I've driven it, I can picture a 3d map that rotates as I make turns. I zone out when that happens though, but I can trigger it any time.
I can only see in more like snapshots or photos of photos
I feel like I think visually like making a knife it is like walking through a familiar room with my eyes closed.
You can do sound? Is faceblindness a thing with aphantasia? Cause that's impossible.
I thought everyone can see like me. I can be watching a movie be bored with it and start watching a movie in my mind while a movie is playing. If I can get my images onto paper ide be rich
What about dreams? I rarely remember them, but they're the closest I get to visualization. What I do recall is fragmented. It's like someone is flashing images for half a second on a screen in a darkened room while they narrate the story.
I think I'm at like a 4-5 on the imagining scale. I can imagine things when I focus on a particular section but then it's gone when I move on to another part. I really struggle with words because to me they're just symbols and the only way they have meaning is when they're arranged in a certain order.
I don't know what you do to the audio of these videos, but I cannot hear a WORD of the dialogue. And it's not my PC, as I can watch videos normally, and I can only not hear your content :(
So something I have observed, in an admittedly small sample size, is that everyone I know with aphantasia is a woman. So I wonder if any studies have been done on any gender and/or sex bias studies on it?
This is kind of funny because I'm virtually the opposite, images and sounds only no text. When someone asks "how do you spell x" first of all your dumb to ask me because I can't spell well, at all. Secondly I need to write it down because I can't just see it in my mind.
I can't visualize at all, and have no internal monologue. I can understand words in my head, but self-talk is entirely out loud. It has made for some uncomfortable interactions.