Introduction to the Dagger - Showcasing HEMA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Knife goes in, guts come out. Knife goes in, guts come out.
Check out our Patreon for extended and early content! - www.Patreon.com/BloodandironHEMA
Weapons used in video:
Daggers - Misc. custom ones, too hard to track down. Sorry :(
Messer - Ensifer Messer.
Village Consort Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons...
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I love how nice and relaxed their voices are when they are talking about brutally stabbing your opponent
When you guys said "This was used in a more stealthy approach then a honorable fight" I IMMEDIATELY thought of drive-by in modern times lol
The Uzi of the ancient past
Knife goes in, guts come out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that!
Preach Papa Bear
Weapons go in, guts come out. It all ends that way, what matters is what happens before then.
knife=/=dagger
"Or it allows you to grapple, throw, or any arm-breaky goodness we all know and love"
Since when did you guys start teaching Fiore?
These Skyrim tutorials last FOREVER.
You should probably just do stealth archery again
Even with all the differences, all martial arts/self defense systems/combat sports are ultimately dealing with the human body, physics laws, human mind, culture (you can go more general if you want but not my point xD)... so ultimately there's a lot of convergent evolution. And that's soo beautiful :D
"Convergent evolution" : you nailed it !
Nailed it bro reasons why I train it Fs
It’s hilarious how people in the comment section just suggest running away or doing what the thief says. Everyone assumes a knife attacks only comes from a thief. What if it’s someone you’re fighting and they pull a knife on you? Or it’s someone legitimately trying to KILL you? What if you’re not a very fast runner? Now he’s caught up to you and you’re exhausted from trying to run away, and your defense is that much more hampered.
Even if a technique only stands a 5% chance of success I’ll take it over bending over in fear and letting the attacker do whatever they want, resulting in 0% chance of survival.
These are what if experts, you get them in any comment section having anything to do about Martial Arts and knife defense in particular. While it is true that there's a lot of garbage out there in regards to knife defense and quite frankly holding these techniques in particular up as a option nowadays is problematic because given we are dealing with basically different weapons, you get tons of "experts" in comment sections spouting things like "Well, what if they do this or this or this or this crazy 12 step maneuver etc." The only way I could see people like having a point is if a techinique can only be preformed one particular way against a non resisting opponent at slow speed and completely falls apart when any sort of speed, resistance or unpredictability is introduced. These techniques in the video can work consistently at speed and under stress against resisting opponents. Of course we don't know how they would fair under life or death conditions, because of course we couldn't test that but they have immediately more viability based on the tests they have survived than other ''knife defense' tactics shown by MC Dojos.
These people literally don't know any better and don't have enough knowledge to really say anything intelligent on the matter. They see a technique preformed at slow speed and think "Well there's a hundred things you could do against that"...ignoring the fact that an effective technique performed at full speed gives you a very NARROW window to counter it with anything and that's provided you have a general idea of what they are about to do and have sufficient reflexes and adaptability to counter it within the correct tempo.
Its very hard to defend yourself from a knife attack. Watch Bolsonaro attacked in Brazil last month. Those guys around him was trained security from our Federal Police and cant stop a single kitchen knife properly. A guy with a knife uses all his body to attack, not only the arm as you see in self defense videos, thats the problem.
@@evertondossantos5202 then use all your body to stop his attack, and immediately deal with the threat.
Still, I can simply not trust any martial art video that is done in slow-motion. Show me these techniques in sparring sessions and I'll drop my skepticism.
Run if able first. If not, use what you know.
Just when I think it's getting dorky, they do the smooth demonstration & it's pretty bad-ass!
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!! Personally I feel that the dagger is an often overlooked tool in fighting history. Many seem to focus on the sword while dismissing the every day carry of the dagger. Many more people of the time would have been carrying a dagger in some form or another instead of a sword due to cost and status. Please, if possible, cover this common but forgotten weapon more!!!! Thanks for all your teachings.
@Tyler Frost And with the exception of closed spaces, having greater reach always gives an advantage. A stick or long stick would give better chances of survival.
Not to mention the constant knights vs samurai debate (like bitch they were both very skilled they need to chill)
2:13 That little *donk* sound makes me chuckle every time.
Perfect. I live in Brazil, in the north east of the country, here has no way to pratice HEMA, which is VERY sad! watch your videos is a opportunity to get in contact with such a nice historical sistem of combat.
Best regards.
Seria muito interessante se algumas escolas fossem fundadas aqui. Sem duvida eu gostaria de praticar.
Primeiros br's que eu vi nesses vídeos (que eu me lembre)
interesting how similar the moves are to some of the Eskrima techniques we learn and teach. thanks for sharing
and Aikido techniques
Best rondel martial arts showcase ever! Subscribed!
You might want to consider change the method in which your training partner attacks with a dagger. For instance at about 1.40, the guy strikes with arm straight in a pinwheeling fashion. This is not the way people strike for real with the dagger. It comes from the ear like hammering a nail. Note that the woman covers high. This is because the strike comes high. However, if the strike is real and comes lower the cover must come lower. When you practice covering high strikes like this, often you will automatically go high and the actual strike will come under your arm and you will miss. This is a subtle but important point about knife combat that is frequently overlooked in the salle. For more on this see "Medieval and Renaissance Dagger Combat" by Jason Vail.
I bought an antique dagger just yesterday. Now looking at how it's used, lol.
1st
no just kidding thanks for these videos.keep up the great work.we need more people like you...
thank you
THIS IS AMAZING!!! I'm so glad I found this channel. You have restored my hope that the scene I'm writing in my book is not completely stupid and that it would indeed be possible for someone skilled with a dagger to win a fight against an experienced swordsman without just chucking his dagger at him. I just have to make a couple of tweaks... right after I watch every video you've ever posted on daggers and swords. brb.
How's your book now?
Coming along nicely, thank you! I even cried a little bit when I was finished writing the scene I mentioned above. The swordsman character totally Coulsoned me.
1:35 that block is exactly the same in wing tsun kungfu
小太刀の組手で使えました！
ありがとうございます！
Hmm... love the "odd" techniques and grabs with the dagger :D
Reminds me a lot of what my mentor used to teach with a combination of Tang Soo-Do, BJJ, and Muay Thai... some really neat knife defenses you wouldn't instinctively get to use. Really makes you wonder who came up with them - if it was trial and error, long nights thinking about the techniques, moments of inspiration in combat, or however else these techniques can about ^^
I’ve seen your building! It’s in burnaby in Canada
Great video. I understand why they used those techniques historically. But now days you could just go straight to the torso.
People need to stop arguing whether or not knife defense techniques work. If you are well trained, get a friend who isn't, put on some protective gear, and have him go at it with something that leaves a physical mark. (Like a washable marker)
If the techniques didn't work, you either need more training, more physical fitness, or a different martial art.
Or a different weapon
What about a dagger vs a sword? Was that covered in the video? If so I must've missed it. How would someone with a dagger fare against someone with an arming sword or longsword?
I've heard a lot of people say that the dagger is the sword's far more dangerous baby brother, which is why I'm curious? Can anyone who knows about this stuff help me out? I'm actually trying to write a medieval fantasy novel and want to bring some realism to the combat elements.
Seconded.
Do you use Fiore's Dagger for your primary sourcing or just for this demonstration? I recognized it from the cross-armed guard and the dagger wrist lock.
Fiore, Meyer, couple other misc sources here and there.
Will you do counters and counter-counters to different attacks next episode? Also how applicable would this be in a real knife/unarmed attack?
Its not applicable in a real knife/unarmed attack. Very little of this stuff as is proposed will ever work, only the dagger being used as a shield. The first thing shown is a dumpster fire, the dagger on dagger stuff is also dicey. Especially if a modern application is required. Self defence then is no different from now. Knife(dagger) attacks are no joke and people need to stop this foolishness. I tend to hold my tongue on most of these videos as their sword work is very good for competitive environments.
Elitism ^
Legendary Wave Pool - How Is this elitist ? The individual asked a question. I honestly responded. Is it applicable in a real knife/ unarmed situation?
.....also one of the main uses was to actually punch THROUGH plate and chain armor, not just the gaps
it would be awesome to see some basic drills that one could do. living alaska, not near any schools or clubs. do you have any recommendationsm
Perfect environment to go out and come up with your own drills. Nobody to look upon you with confusion or malice as you develop your technique. That's if you're worried about that. I wouldn't recommend drills without a partner, however, as the technique is useless to employ without any sparring practice. You don't want to mess around with someone legitimately trying to kill you, after all.
There's two hema schools in Alaska
I think the difference between knife defense now and then comes down to knifes today having nothing to do with daggers then. that lenght in a thrust weapon, not common today. But principles should be similar. Just my thoughts.
These techs still work on improvised stabbing weapons like icepicks or awls. Even a large closed scissor.
THAT ACCENT!
Kid 1: My dad is in the navy seals
Kid 2: MY dad is spetsnaz
Kid 3: I never see him but I think my dad is JTF2
Kid 4: My mom was rank 1 steel longsword
I'm just delving into HEMA looking to learn the art of longsword. If I ever end up moving back to Vancouver I wish Nicole would let me be her squire/apprentice
also from watching her matches, she is best described as HEMA darth vader
Enjoyed the video but I think it would be cool to see some Spanish navaja videos I think it would be more applicable to modern self defense
People questioning if those fighting techniques would work ?? Are extremely naive, those techniques came from actual knights, who wrote fighting manuscripts, who used to fight in battle ??? So what is there to question ???? Do your research idiots, read Fiore dei Liberi... "Flower of battle"...and you will find out..haha ;) Fiore killed 5 "fake" masters in duel without a scrath...
Shiver me timbers... speaking of which unskilled pirates killed more than fiore and didnt waste time traveling to learn how to fight they travelled to earn money fiore is a clown and his followers too “flower of battle”🥺😂
Great video, as always!
Why do you not consider the wrist mouvements, Past HEMA did as current Filipina do but many modern/reconstructed HEMA forget that
I kinda wish we could carry daggers around nowadays.
In Wisconsin we can
I do carry one every day and I train hard with it and hard with my pocket knife and firearm too. It's about 15 hours a week every week for years now with my best friend we train together and always challenge each other
FUCK CANADA
In Texas we can carry swords
In NH the only knife law is that you can't be a felon. You could walk around with any blade you wanted, be it knife, dagger, or sword. Though you still have to deal with peoples reactions. I don't think an employer is gonna be too happy if you walk around with a real dagger at your hip.
Great video!
Using this for blade and sorcery VR tor the Oculus quest two and you can get a job on your feet
These are some great tips, Valar Morghulis!
What do you MEAN they didnt throw them?
I loved this Topic. thank you so much for doing this.
Those moves are good but very focused on the dagger hand. If you have one weapon and a free hand you can have other options. You can also use your head as a weapon.
So is there a video on the differences between modern and historical self-defence? Sounds like it would be interesting!
Thank you.
I needed help with Blade and Sorcery, thanks,
The question is can you actually use that under real pressure. Real pressure & situations are what truly make martial artist.
there are hema dagger tournaments, you could look up one of those
Are you asking if anyone in the long history of daggers has ever become skilled in them and best someone who had a dagger with a techniques like these? Yes
How many diferent codex talks about ways to use it? And.. there is variations, you said. Could you show us how it does looks like? I would LOVE to know how to wield it those ways but I donno where to go to find it out!
If you are interested in historical manuscripts, Wiktenauer is the place to be. wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Dagger
ehhh i wanna see these at full speed in a sparring. i just don't know if they fold up.
3:22 Brilliant
When they said to block with your offhand and while they were staying still explaining it looked like the hitler salute
Vinland Saga
Enjoyed the video!
Great video
Do you have footage of people using an dagger in combination with an sword?
Wilming Gerrit yes, check out our rapier sparring video
... You can´t explain that!
Very similar to Chinese dagger fighting from my kungfu system
Modern, Historical. Asian, European Culture. I'm not a martial arts expert, but from what I can see, the fundamentals look to be the same. After all, at the end of the day, a knife is just a sharpened piece of metal with a handle attached to it.
looks like fun
so the dagger was only a pointed weapon ?
The rondel yes, many daggers were double edged though
Early rondels did have an edge though but they’re still meant as a puncturing weapon.
@@aaronsmith3484 thanks 👍
looks at swords then turns around to stab neck xDDD this is gold
awesome guys ! ..subbed
are you guys able to do any videos on the gladius
Aurora Bennett We answer something like this on one of our previous mailbags, but probably not. There are no treatises about the gladius, and as such we don't actually know how they were used. We will only make videos about content that we definitely feel confident about our knowledge in.
Julian Schuetze okay, thank you for clearing that up
Shorts sword I prefer
Supper cool and helpful
How is it possible to handle the dagger blade ?
oscillatine Since these daggers are thrust centric, many don't need to have a razor sharp edge. And even if they did have an edge, you can grab sharp weapons, check out our video on blade grabs
Thank you.
Pinching the flat of blade with your fingertips to your palm.
Why when I watch this I think about "Fun with Flags"????
Oh boys ive found my calling as an elder scrolls dual dagger wielder i am ready to beat all opponents in the sport!
2:12
2:26
Am I missing something? They'be gripped the supposed dagger blade. Wouldn't that severely cut you?
@@nikoinfidel okay, thanks!
In real life, most people carried a dagger every day but never got into a dagger fight in their whole lives. If things had got that bad that you were actually fighting, a cut hand would be the least of your worries. Cut your hand and save your life? Fair trade off. Also, these specific daggers, rondel daggers, were designed for armoured knights and had no cutting edges. The idea was to stab through the weakest parts of your opponent's armour.
@@mikefule330 Yeah yeah, a guy answered with the rondel. I was just getting into Medieval arms and armor when I commented that. Thanks for replying though!
Again, they are not lightsabers
El HEMA me va a servir para detenar al Bryan
:) Thanks
Merci :)
Still does not explain the main focus on the reverse grip. It limits your reach, and the forward grip is equally suitable for stabbing more than slashing - like iit is done in various ancient European martial arts. You have a lot more reach and would not even have to be close enough to have to parry those overhand stabs, to still be able to stab the attacker. Especially when you hold the knife in sabre grip. However, many medieval daggers don't even allow the sabre grip. Why?
Dagger fighting soon gets close and dirty: punching, grappling, arm locks, anything goes. It isn't a tidy duel "at distance". With point down, you have various hooks and locks available that wouldn't be possible if you held it point up. Also, if someone grabs your weapon arm, it's easier for them to bend it against your will then for them to straighten it against your will. If you're holding a dagger point up ("sword grip") and someone grabs your arm and bends it at the elbow, they can stab you in the face with your own dagger.
@@mikefule330 If you grab my arm - if youvhave the luck to do do - I can still cut your arm as easily in the sabre grip as in the reverse grip. But it rarely hsppens that someon can grab my hand in sparring and even then he usually was stabbed on the wayi in. Even with a "normal" modern folder the difference in reach is significant and if we are talking about traditional knivey like a muletto, a Sicilian duelling stiletto or alarge Spanish navaja thr difference in reach becomes even more important. It makes sense using the reverse grip when the dagger is a secondary weapon together with the sword, but if the knife is the primary weapon being able to kill the adversary at some 20 to 30 cm more distance is important.
Sometimes it's better to use voice over and images.
In the technique at 2:00 the subdued person could still stick their dagger into the opponent's side. Seems risky
Do you mean once they're not stand up right any more? Because no. That arm is locked, and wrist movement wouldn't allow for an effective stab.
@@almasmartyr6708 Sure, if you let yourself be controlled to this extent. With just a bit better posture/balance, you could even grab the seizing hand with your left and stab between the ribs
People thinks Dagger is just for Assassin's and Thief as per the game said lol
Interesting movements, but I can barely see any possibility of any of them realistically be used in a fight
Says the couch potato who has zero experience in real-life combat. Go back to playing MineCraft
This 🔼 This right here, is why the HEMA and HMB community is so toxic.
It's dead ridden with snobs and elitists supremacists.
I like Minecraft, so what?
Does that define a person in its whole complexity, its customs, practices and experiences?
Low your snout down and get off your high horse, practicing this nice sport doesn't make you any better of a person, and it shows, as you try riding on it to make you feel better about yourself.
The movements are being executed slowly, and in a fight there are many factors to be taken into consideration, specially a fight upclose with daggers, where grappling has more weight in the fight, and the enemy's unpredictability rises.
This is just my experience, I don't see the movements working for me, as I practice with training knives along with the other weapons as I find this weapon's dynamics very interesting.
I have yet to put them to practice, as lockdown has prevented me from training again, But I look forward to trying them nonetheless, I might be wrong after all, and my experience isn't extensive.
@@blackfeathers2166 Fuck i'm losing myself
I need some rest
Good call sir, a good rest will ease your mind, maybe you are just a bit stressed, don't let that burden you.
Just a humble suggestion, consider not wasting time on some nerds over the internet, you are smarter than that.
I think I overreacted there, sorry about that, The Hema and hmb community do have a niche of that type of people, but in contrast every other person I've met are the extreme opposite, being super friendly and helpful.
A CSAJ egy veszélyes hujeseget mutat be. Ugyanis így NEM lehet védekezni a tör ellen hatásosan. Ugyanis csak vissza kell húzza a tört, és vége a kezének. Amúgy bevallalnek 🤭😲👍 vele egy ágy- föld harcot 👍😲🤭!
I use to think daggers were lame. NOT ANYMORE!!! 😃😆
When my girlfriend's boyfriend pull down his pants:
My GF: 0:31
it might be a good video but I can't stand the background music, it's annoying and too loud.
Don’t do this in a real situation
I like these but I feel like if it was really going down most of these methods/techniques are most likely going to get you killed.
In a real situation it's never Step 1 Step 2 to Step 3.
During step one after you parried the attack, what if your opponent throws a jab, elbow, hook, eye gouge, head etc. Murphy's law is always there. And with modern day fighting "styles" for military to marital arts I feel like it's a lot more of do whatever the hell is going to work rather than, you go here than do this, to finally drop your opponent.
Fights are nasty, dirty, and never simple
And the old masters recognized this.
Knife attacks are very difficult to defend against. It was true back then as it is now.
What you're pointing out isn't something that can be shown in a short video. The point of techniques like these is they obviously are situational and would also have to be adjusted if someone did use there elbow. You literal guys just have to get daggers have been used for so many things as across so many cultures
Oh come on, not with the misinterpretation of the treatises again
The reason why people end up dismissing the treatises is that they misinterpret it
Every techniques in treatises require continuous movements and a certain distance and speed to be executed, if you've done it with insufficient speed, it will obviously fail, and it's not just your typical speed, it's a matter of whose reflexes are faster. That's why practicing techniques over and over again is a thing in HEMA so your body will be able to execute them faster.
Of course it's never Step 1 Step 2 to Step 3 you donut, you're not going to pause in every movement. You need effort and actual speed and has to be done continuously to make them work.
I practice HEMA, but personnaly I wouldn't trust my life with these techniques. The best technique for a knife attack is doing what
the thief says or run like hell.
Kelpo Cream What if you’re not a very fast runner? Now he’s caught up to you and you’re exhausted from trying to run away. Or what if he’s actually trying to kill you?
Even if a technique only stands a 5% chance of success I’ll take it over bending over in fear and getting stabbed resulting in 0% chance of survival.
mate, even if you're not a fast runner, you've got plenty of adrenaline to carry the day. Also, I don't think it's "Bending over in fear'', it's common sense to fear being stabbed and running away from someone with a knife. The only one's who aren't afraid in those kind of situations are idiots or psychopaths. Besides, most times someone gets threathend with a knife it's a mugging, so in that situation, just hand over your possession. Or if it's a genuine attempted murder, RUN. I'd only face offf against someone if I carried a knife myself.
Kelpo Cream ok. Some asshole caught you checking his girlfriend out. You try to calm him down but he doesn’t listen. You are backed into a corner, no space to run, he pulls out a knife what do you do? Beg for mercy or defend yourself in whatever way you can?
Kelpo Cream “you’ve got plenty of adrenaline to carry the day”. Lmfao. So martial arts and self defense is useless? Everyone should instead train to be a sprinter. Sure dude, not even wasting my time arguing this with you anymore.
Guyona Buffalo In my original comment I said I practice HEMA, why do you assume that my skepticism regarding knife techniques is the same as rejecting the concept of self defense entirely? Yes, if you find yourself in an situation in which you can't run, I'd say fight. But if you've got the chance to run, I'd suggest running, because I'm not taking any chances against a knife, one good stab in the gut or arms or neck or upper leg and you're done for.
Мощная баба
I would die
I wouldn't block at the wrist when I'm dealing with daggers. If my opponent is fast enough, he could change the angle of his arm to drag the blade across my wrist. The arms or even elbows would be a much better place.
Remember though, these techniques are for dealing with rondel daggers...there's no dragging the blade across the wrist on a dagger that almost never had an actual blade. However it is for that reason that most of these techniques wouldn't work in modern self defense against a modern day knife due to it being shorter and having a sharp blade as opposed to being essentially a thrusting only weapon.
"how to defend attacks from a child."
2:40 He actually GRABS THE BLADE! Good luck using that outside the training room...
You can grab a blade without cutting your hands dude. It's been proven in a few different videos
Grabbing a blade without cutting yourself really isn't that hard, as long as you can prevent motion.
Lmfaoo this guys plan is to grab the dagger with his bare hand
m.th-cam.com/video/vwuQPfvSSlo/w-d-xo.html
Rondel daggers didn't always have an edge or if they did, only one side was sharpened. Many of them were triangular in cross section and were basically like big stiff icepicks. The techniques they are demonstrating are directly out of historical texts.
Short version, grabbing the blade is usually just fine with rondels.
@@scottmacgregor3444 yeah, rondel dagger often dont have edges
Uh oh we got an expert in lightsaber blades in the comments section.
Steel blades aren't lightsabers
sadly, most of these techniques only work on a static attacker that doesnt struggle. just look up footage of actual knife attacks, and itll quickly become clear that trying most of these will just get you killed.
this video really is educational/historial only, please dont try this in real life.
If someone attacks one with a knife, he is gonna be cut atleast, unless he has protection like chain mail
There are no videos of the application of "real life" rondell dagger in it's historical context.
Watch the sparring videos. Also these work better with improvised stabbing weapons like icepicks, spikes, and scissors.
The techniques are not designed for modern knifes, but for the historical ones
Now try it at full speed......and none of it works lol.
Bill Kennedy it's like usin a shiv aka shank
Uh... no?
Ummm nobody ever shanked anyone like this ever in history lol. Feel free to call up all the prison and street cam footage you want. :) Shankings come with no advanced warning. Up close and personal.
prison? street cam footage?...
Your 'history' is not very long, is it.
Bill Kennedy so.. umm you were thrown into prison because of trying to mimic the technique againts a stranger on the street and the cam caught your doing
Are you kidding me?
Somehow the advent of gunpowder flew over the head of these MMO couple.
How is it any different than an Asian martial arts, or even MMA? It's people practicing fighting without a firearm, which does happen still believe it or not.
And yet more people are stabbed than shot today, hmmmm.
Some centuries passed, people still killed by bayonets more than musket bullets
No.1 They aren't a couple
No.2 Knifes and stabbings are still extremely common, especially in areas where guns are illegal
No3. The tone of your comment makes you sound like a moron
these techniques are as much use as aik8do in a real situation-USELESS.
you do realize most people DONT icepick attack because it is fucked up and telegraphed from another continent?
with a dagger that long you should be useing it "main gauche" style
History disagrees with you.
And yet that's exactly what people do with icepicks, railroad spikes, scissors, even butter knives. (I have seen xrays of a dude who's skull was pierced with a butter knife. thickest part of the skull, by an untrained attacker.)