My favorite "what to do in a knife fight" video, is the one with the army guys in the desert. By time one guy pulls the knife, the other dude is already like 100ft away, full sprint. Funny and sensiable.
Personally, I fucking hated it. Yeah, sure, if you see the knife dude, and you think you can outrun him, then run. If you have loved ones nearby that cannot run that fast, if you do not think you can outrun him, or if you just see the knife when the attack already began (which is the norm), then this advice goes from good to dangerous and becomes equivalent to other feel good bullshit like "muh deescalation™", "muh pepperspray" or bullshido arts that barely sparr at all.
I really enjoyed this one, seeing the manuscripts read by someone familiar with HEMA and then demonstrated with an opponent both slow and resisting is really interesting. Shows these techniques were actually well thought out and developed in terms of understanding body mechanics and manipulating them.
They were more battle tested than modern ideas, I'm fairly sure - anything that didn't work then would've been dropped and fast, since even a basic cut could well have been fatal. These days, they can tuck your guts back in and stitch you up if you make it to the hospital alive.
Is there ground-fighting in hema? I mean, a fight isnt over just because your on your back and on the ground, eight? You can stil defend youself while on the ground, right?
I enjoyed watching this, seeing how medieval manuscripts were teaching techniques that looked familiar to the techniques I learned in my BJJ and Judo. And I concur with your parting words, these are still unarmed techniques against an armed assailant. And yes, always, always de-escalate and always leave. We never know if there are hidden weapons or there's more of them lingering nearby.
their is no absouts when it comes to this kind of situations. if it´s a robery. then give the robber what they want. it´s not worth dying for stuff and money. If the person is out to kill others. then runing isn´t realy a option. the faster the attacker is taken out the better.
If the robber doesn't kill you immediately, there's a good chance that they will let you live. I looked up the statistics for my country. About 90.000 cases of robbery in 2019, 2 of them left the victim dead.
Why do i feel like this is one of those things where you practice for years and years finally getting proficient at knife defense so you can reliable counter it like 99% of the time..😌 Only to get shot with gun ..😲 😏😏🤔😂
Kali enthusiast and instructor here, unarmed knife defense is bleak even if you do your techniques perfectly. Interestingly, when it comes to knife vs knife, the most likely outcome is mutual destruction. Gotta love it.
In fairness, mutual destruction was a very common outcome for sword duels too, didn't stop headstrong nobles from running eachother through for centuries though.
@@webbowser8834 The difference is, a sword can one-shot someone and end the fight. Daggers do a lot of damage too, but they lack the stopping power compared to swords - so the other guy has plenty of time to stab you back before the bleeding gets him.
Thumbs up for the disclaimer(s). Like you said, too many dodgy people out there claim that their near-magic trick can work for anybody any size and fitness against any assailant. In a modern day setting it would probably be wise to scream "KNIFE!" at the top of your lungs to at least (hopefully) have somebody nearby aware that they might have to call emergency services in case of a bad outfall.
@@kempbrown4402it’s still better to try it if you can then not try it. At best someone will respond, and the attacker will be momentarily taken aback. At worst nothing happens and your still running.
Although the techniques are unrefined, I think you've got the right mindset for these techniques. One big suggestion I will give you (I offer this advice as I've been training with the Exiles, who do a lot of dagger - i'd say 50% of classes are dagger, for over 8 years) is that when you're trying to stop dagger attacks, don't chase to grab their arms / weapon etc. Simply focus on covering a line. The sheer variety of techniques that you find in medieval manuscripts when it comes to fighting daggers is to give you plenty of options from all the different ranges / grips you will find yourself in after stopping the initial strike. The second suggestion I will offer is to keep your body structure strong and upright, and to try to close down the attacks. The natural reaction is to move away from the attacks as they come in, or to go fetal against them, and while this is appropriate sometimes, if you move in on the attacks, as well as offline, you stifle their ability to pull back and stab again, as well as giving yourself more chances to grab hold of something, and more angles to escape to. For more tips and info on dagger combat, especially from a Fiore perspective, check out our TH-cam page. You can find it just by searching 'Exiles CMMA' - we have a lot of videos dealing with dagger which you might find useful and enlightening! Keep up your journey Skall!
Good points. I noticed the moving away too. From my experience with judo I know that moving away makes it extremely difficult to grab their arms at all. You have to reach your arms out faster than you're moving backwards and any pulling away they do becomes stronger. By moving in and, if possible, moving your body towards the shoulder of the arm you're tackling you have a much better chance of grabbing and controlling it. However, of course it's more dangerous to move in than it is to move away so it's a risk you need to weigh up given how confident you feel against the incoming attack. Also, I 100% get why Skall's default is to move the way he does, it's more optimal for a lot of armed fighting.
@@chrismarlow9585 The movements could be alternated - a parry and move out for the initial attacks and then a move in with a tackle-like pressure for the follow up swings after the defender gets a feel of the attacker's flow or something.
Loved the quick aside at 12:37 . Thats something a Lot of people need to understand about Plays in Manuscripts. Most of them aren't about using the Play Step for Step in an actual fight, its just about developing an intuitive understanding of the Body mechanics involved with Fighting, and the muscle memory to perform these High-Risk Techniques when an opportunity arises.
This is nice and timely given Tom and Schola's recent Rondel Dagger video. I think putting an edge on daggers was really more of a nice feature to have but the primary purpose seemed to be for puncturing through armor of all types. For real life application I think the best defense is to flee when you're unarmed and someone pulls a knife. If fleeing isn't a possibility then I think the best bet would be to get that initial block and turn it into a wrestling match where you strictly go for control of the limb holding the weapon. And in that case suffering a maiming wound to your hand is probably worth staying alive, so outright grasping a blade in order to gain control of it would be worthwhile.
Reminds me of a story i read where the victim got hold of the knife when it pierced through his palm and assailant's grip slipped, leaving it lodged in the victim's hand where he could pull it out with his other hand.
Don't forget, if you've got a hand on the blade, it can't really cut unless it can slide, so hang on to the attacking arm/hand with your other hand as if your life is depending on it!
The primary purpose was not universally to puncture armor. Tod's rondel is _heavily_ optimized towards armor penetration and is far less optimized for cutting than most other dagger types, including ones contemporary with rondels. If we liken them to swords, that dagger was equivalent to an estoc, when most swords were compromise cut-and-thrust blades.
7:30 For Fiore at least, this technique (disarm from 3rd master) works not because you step out of the line of the attack, but rather because your opponent does it for you. If you have a guy and you stab at him in the icepick grip and use the very first technique in the video (1st master disarm), he can counter it by turning his dagger under your arm and stab you from the reverse side (your right, his left). If he does that, our 7:30 disarm works a lot better, because it was your opponent who gave you his outside. If you want to slap away his initial attack like this, Fiore says in his 1st master play (24 on Wiktenauer): 1) it is a rare defense, 2) you should follow it up with a strike to the torso.
I'm gonna say it; it's fun to see your sparring partner, and I hope to see more of him in the videos! Also great video, and it is sad you need to include like 50 disclaimers, but we all know how some people are. On your note about running, I noticed some of the techniques showed armored knights--this insinuates a battlefield or armored duel scenario where running wouldn't really be an option as well, I thought that was quite interesting to notice. This was a fun video Skal. And that is good.
If you're wearing armour, especially gauntlets, you have more options as well, since you can actively block the blade with those. You're also going to worry less about getting the blade pressed against your arm while binding your opponent.
I really enjoyed this video, i’m a security guard in London and have seen my share of knives. While the best advice definitely is to defuse the situation before violence, never the less some really interesting techniques. When it does happen the natural reaction is to grapple but these more planed techniques will be fun to practice.
Honestly it's probably best compared to someone attacking with a broken bottle (which is more obvious, stab-only, and blunt on the sides)! The security guard thing made me think of it: I used to work security in nightclubs, and that was a very real concern. Especially since our employer refused to get us stab vests.
Some of those techniques are *similar* to bjj and catch wrestling techniques such as the Americana and other arm locks from a standing position. As always, it's better if used in grappling range rather than at boxing distance, but you dont always get the choice.
Please note that if you're training these kinds of moves do not make an habit of giving the knife back to your training partener. It's better to lay it on the ground and the other person to pick it. I heard a story of a person who had training and disarmed the assailant and gave the knife back to him after disarming him. Muscle memory can screw you over.
It's interesting how many of these are similar to aikido techniques. The main one I noticed was at 5:30, which they call ikkyo. When we did it in my class, you'd want to push their shoulder down, so it hits the ground before the hand, and use your footwork to pull them off balance.
Ikkyo is essentially a shoulder lock, whereas the 5:30 technique seemed to be trying to hyperextend the elbow. Ikkyo keeps the opponent's elbow flexed while manipulating the opponent's shoulder.
Your friend did a good job! I have tried to be a demonstration partner in various martial arts classes, not as simple as just taking a beating! Kept the flow going with minimal distraction.
From an experienced (30+ years) and "traditional Okinawan" martial arts perspective, I would note the following things: First, these techniques are nearly if not totally identical to traditional Eastern martial arts techniques, though they tend to focus more on unarmed versus armed defense, in terms of how they grip and manipulate. Extending from that; Second, as you clearly stated, the knives these are defending against were not the same as modern knives, and so make manipulating them a lot "safer". And; Third, from some of the illustrations from the manuals, they are done while wearing armor, often plate. I think it is obvious that even with fully edged daggers that would provide significant protection for grabbing and bracing against casual cuts and scrapes from light pressure. Those two combined are, I think, a critical factor in some of the disconnect between what is taught and what is functional, as techniques for martial (war) defense are adapted for civil (street) defense. Fourth, regarding resistance, that is absolutely correct. In fact, that is a key factor in almost all locking maneuvers - they can be rather easily resisted - unless they are initiated with full speed and total disregard for the injury they will cause - or perhaps more accurately with total intent to cause injury. Locks and joint manipulations done in practice have to be slower and with less intent to avoid breaking your training partner, and that makes them considerably easier to resist. Do them not caring about how many joints you dislocate, tendons your shred, and bones you break and SUDDENLY! they become surprisingly easier to perform. Of course, finding a volunteer for your next demonstration will become surprisingly more difficult. Related to that is other supporting moves, like the hand to the face, throat, or elbow, all of which reduce resistance proportional to the force used, along with increasing injury to your training partner. These factors both reduce the seeming effectiveness as well as increase perceptions that they are gimmicky because your training partner complies with the moves rather than resists and increases the chance of injury. Fifth, regarding grabbing clothing, instead consider grabbing and digging into muscle and tendons. Yes, it takes longer and more focus, but the pain from it increases shock and decreases resistance, making the follow up techniques easier to perform. Clearly armor, even gambeson, will reduce that effectiveness, but it should be standard for completely unarmored civil defense.
A couple of rules to remember in a knife fight...it doesn't matter the technique, you will get some level of cut and if all you do is try and block, deflect, disarm, pretty much anything without counter attacking in some way to give them a reason to stop stabbing you or at least to give them something else to think about you will lose. Oh and the moment you have distance, sneaker fu is your best friend.
I’ve been thoroughly enjoying these latest videos Skall! Taking a deep dive into both the context of historical techniques as well as the actual mechanics of them is something you surprisingly don’t see as much of.
@Skall - another great video - thank you. I finally purchased my first two swords: 1. The new version of the Cold Steel Kriegsmesser (lower quality replica of the Albion Knecht) 2. The LK Chen Snow Peak Jian I know a ton about knives, but very little about swords. That said, I think that I got some good blades to start my journey. Wish me luck...
Hi! Awesome video! It's amazing how so many of these techniques look similar to knife defense stuff we find today and how you're able to put them together with just manuscripts, pressure testing and common sense! I'm an Escrima/Filipino Martial Arts practitioner and it was interesting to see how much of it resembles stuff that I've learned. Actually the 'partial success' empty hand parries and blocks are something we train a lot of too, so it was interesting seeing that happening in live sparring even when the grapples and disarms failed. Again, tons of respect and amazing video. It's always so cool to see HEMA practitioners developing these things and to see what we can all learn from each other and the commonalities and differences among styles!
It's good to know that there *are* options for defending yourself against a knife or dagger if you're unarmed, and that having multiple options is better for your chances of survival than having just one, or none at all. Also glad that you went into detail about how these techniques could go wrong or just be avoided. Seen too many videos floating around where people don't do that, they just make out that the technique is flawless when it really isn't. Also loved that ending "Thanks for watching, fuck off." Stay classy XD
Insight from having been in two stabbing attempts doing unarmed security: The first time, a woman pulled out a pair of scissors and jabbed at my belly. I pushed her in the shoulders as hard as I could and with as much range as I could get and immediately backed away. She walked away after I pushed her and I still think about how close a call it was. The second time, a man pulled out a small knife. We were standing very close to each other and out of "measure", so he couldn't really get his knife pointed at me very well. I grabbed his forearm with my right hand and sort of wrapped my left arm around his, up to the shoulder, basically pinning his entire outer arm fully extended against my chest. My coworker wrestled the knife out of the guy's hand and we took him down to the ground. Adrenaline can make your perception of time weird. I remember everything vividly, like seeing it in slow motion, but both these attempts can't have been more than a second long. My brain understood what to do, and when I think back I can sort of "hear" myself narrating my actions - but in the moment I wasn't consciously formulating a play by play plan. I don't train for this sort of thing, and don't plan to (outside of for fun in HEMA!). In these instances, I had advantages like home-turf, authority, backup, and sobriety working for me, all of which contribute to the psychology of the event. Also probably a lot of luck. Without these advantages, though, it's more than likely that I would fail to defend myself against a weapon.
Learned a similar technique to the first "uno-reverse card" move in a Pekiti Tirsia Kali class. They modified it by pulling the opponent towards you to unbalance them and reduce the likelihood of them resisting as you quickly reverse the direction of their thrust by hooking and pulling the elbow and controlling the hand at the wrist. Just thought it was cool that such different systems so far removed from each other in time and location have a similar move set.
Just goes to show that people will discover the same things without any communication. Just like when the allies discovered the jet engine around the same time the Germans did in the middle of wwll
I like that you emphasised how hard it is and showed it often not working in the sparring part. So many times I see this being like "Just take his knife away" and I'm like sure mr perfect practice.
Aikido has a lot of knife/dagger defensive techniques I think you'll find interesting. Some feel more viable than these techniques, others not so much. It's always interesting to see how similar it all is.
In aikido their strong grip on the dagger can give you a ton of control over the wrist and elbow in the initial contact. The weapons techniques really is the heart of the martial art. The modern mcdojo nonsense really falls to the wayside when that much force and leverage is in play.
This was really enjoyable. As a former competitive wrestler and part time HEMA enthusiast. These techniques make a lot of sense. I would point out three things. 1. When attacked by a knife you WILL get cut your goal is to minimize the damage. 2. In keeping with number one, with shorter, more modern blades which are typically sharp you may save your life but you will be injured using any of the dagger stripping techniques. 3. This demonstration really makes some hilt configurations make a lot more sense. The combatant is sacrificing some dexterity in favor of a more secure grip when they know that opponents will have some knowledge of counters and disarm techniques.
Skall, you need someone who understands grappling (wrestler or bjj guy) to go over these with you. If you understood things like pummeling, head position and handfighting, you could likely had made some of those work live. Especially the russian tie one. Also, the one that you showed where you try to break the arm is an americana and the other direction it was asking for would have been kimura. If you have someone show you the correct hand position and way to finish that you could probably make that work too. I do appreciate you going live at the end with a low intensity spar though. That is a super important element when we are talking about these sorts of things. All in all I appreciate you taking an honest wack at this subject and I as always enjoyed the video!
Step 0 is always: run away if even remotely possible. Knife fighting is about as dangerous it gets. There's a popular saying that goes: "In a knife fight, the loser dies in the street, and the winner dies in the ambulance." Modern knives are very fast, very sharp, and force you to fight at a range that leaves very little room for mistakes. Only attempt to fight if you have absolutely no choice.
Yeah, get out, deescalate, or just hand over your wallet. Best options if available. You often hear people arguing about being the faster runner and how important that is, like elsewhere in the comments here. I don't think it matters that much other than if you're significantly slower (and in that case defending is probably not an option anyway). But the first few steps are the most important. If you need to turn around to run while the attacker can stab you, you're probably not going to be well off. But if the attacker hesitates you will get a bit of a head start, which might be enough for the attacker to give up, since at that point it takes a lot more effort to take you down. If you need to make time to turn around to run, it might just be better to take a stab in the hand or arm while trying to throw off the attacker than to take it in the gut or back.
That and nobody actually uses a knife in a big obvious way that is always shown for demonstrative purposes or cinematic effect. There's a reason you never see any techniques for disarming a knife wielder when you're tangled up in a brawl, because you're already dead.
@@gogzhp88 Pretty much, yeah. That's another great reason to comply or try to run away if you can. To paraphrase another comment, "If their intention was to stab you from the beginning, you'll never see the knife to begin with." Odds are if they're threatening you and showing you the knife, they would rather not fight you if they don't have to. It's only if you fight back that you increase your risk dramatically.
Watching these exercises really drives home a good point about fighting - and life. Success is a succession of failures. If one tactic fails, you adapt and respond with another until it works.
I've been a HEMA/SCA dagger vs. dagger (or anything, really - it's my favorite!) fighter for about 15 years now and I still try to wrap my head around how these historical teachings could work. I think it would be great fun to spar someone who is well-trained in them!
This is reasonably informative and i find it very interesting how many of these techniques are still being taught. 10/10 great Video as always. also didn't skall uses to have the same gambison that his partner has, sorry, i'm bad with names no offense to him.
6:01 Hiki otoshi 8:45 Gyakugamae ate 11:11 Ude gaeshi These names above are Jujutsu/Aikido techniques that looks very similar to the ones in the video. Just like with long sword and katana, it's interesting to see how the same techniques exist on the other side of the world. (Check Shodokan Aikido's 17 basic techniques to see the above)
Even with martial arts such as the Filipino arts (which have a LOT of techniques for unarmed vs. knife), they always talk about how the best defense is to avoid the fight, because you WILL get cut. No mastery of any art can truly stop you from getting cut in a knife fight, even if you have a knife yourself. Even so, I like that there are ways you can avoid being killed if you ended up cornered and unarmed against a knife-wielding opponent.
Great stuff, Skal! I've been getting more and more into dagger and wrestling. These unarmed vs. dagger covers are tough unarmored for sure, but if you get good at them they can certainly be done against committed attacks. Wear armor and it gets a whoooole lot more likely.
It is a very good historical demonstration IMO. I have been training traditional martial arts and combat sports for 37 years and have worked in security and law enforcement for 20 years. I believe they had it as right, as any modern knife defense, if not more so. Keeping in mind that this is the sort of thing that is the ideal scenario, it's gonna be messy, your gonna get hurt likely. This would've been the sort of thing merely instructed to warriors, to give them some direction and confidence, to step into battle. Also one or both combatants would've likely been wearing thick garments, gloves, chain mail or even armor. Variations of two on ones, russian ties, overhooks, underhooks, armlocks and shoulder locks are essential to any grappling situation. Hence why many of these techniques have survived in modern combat sports. Ty for posting, love the channel.
Great video. You guys both made me laugh, and your explanations for the techniques were helpful. I can't wait to take what I've learned today, and run away as soon as someone pulls a knife.
The knife was my 1st weapon when I started learning Jujutsu and I was always told to minimise the threat to myself, the trick to unarmoured knife defence is that you never grapple for the knife unless the opponent's already limp. I haven't been doing HEMA for very long it's pretty new to me but in classes I'm always grappling the other way, with structure and a free hand you can hit or grab while you're pinning the weapon hand the wrong way. Locking away the weapon and pulling your opponent off balance should always come first. My 1st year of Jujutsu was being pulled and thrown off balance and practicing on a fridge freezer, get a grip, pull and throw at speed no matter the weight or size of your opponent
Being a martial artist myself in the art of Silat this looks very functional and practical so i think it works however dont over look simply striking the knife hand/arm to get a disarm and follow up with fast and brutal strikes to his face and body until he is down and out.
Yup, I have trained Silat and FMA and agree. Attacking the weapon hand is very effective if you have trained it. Even more so if you have trained arts Cimande where the forearms are heavily conditioned so that when you strike the offending limb, you break it.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 Yes i do train to harden my bones and have been doing so for 2/1/2 years now and when i simply block a punch/kick from new friends they say to me,"Dam your blocks hurt so much"and i say well i only blocked lightly so they sure can feel it big time.
@aaa Well first of all you are not replying to a young snot nosed young guy and i happen to be very skilled at weapons and its true that using a weapon is the fastest easiest way to dispatch a threat and i also shoot as well as skilled with weapons so no i am not an idiot and the insult was not appreciated,you could have just ask me if i had any weapons training or not and my business name on my youtube has nothing to do with my interest in martial arts nor my love of weapons ,Lastly i served in the US Army and went to basic training at FT Knox 1985 B1-1 Tank crewman.Lastly you should not judge a book by its cover but that being said i am fine talking with you as long as we keep it respectful.
This just strengthens my desire to see a movie about medieval bodyguards. "Bodyguard" (the 2018 BBC mini series), or "Jon Wick" in renaissance Rome or Constantinople? So much untapped potential...
Some very cool techniques though in real life I think it's only a last resort. The best option would be to run if they look slower than you or pick up a rock and hold it as if your about to throw it and they would most likely flee.
I've been doing Meyers dagger for a while, and whilst I enjoy it, I have found it's very hard to actually get most of the techniques off in sparring, not to say they're useless by any means, but it does feel like the skill floor for them is quite high.
Yeah, Meyer is really difficult. I think it's important to remember that Meyer's techniques (whilst absolutely beautiful, refined and intelligent) are developped in and for sport. I say this as someone who loves Meyer. I'd look at Fiore, if I were you. He's fun to read (kind of a dudebro), but his techniques are a bit less 'flashy'.
Torque = Force * Radius so if you double the distance from the moment center, you double the applied torque. Conversely, if you double the distance from the moment center, you only need half the force to apply the same torque.
The technique at 6:11 would break the upper arm if done with force. The motion is nearly identical to how arm wrestlers break their humerus bone with bad form.
Martial arts instructor here, with an interest in HEMA but I grew up with easter MA as my basis. For some reason I felt the need to debunk the air of Bullshido/McDojo that some people might have with these techniques. They do not exist in a vacuum and every single one of them has connections to techniques in combat sports or other partial arts. Some are rarely seen in combat sports due to the rulesets, but they might be more effective than some other common techniques once you throw a knife in there. I have an example or analogy for every technique in the video so buckle up! 2:36 It reminds me of a rather nameless shoulder crank. Used by Jon Jones against Glover in the UFC and apparently also in the third boxing match between Sandy Saddler and Willie Pep. In both these cases, the receiver of the technique got injured from it. Considered a bit of a "dick move" sometimes in MMA-related training, but very effective. It's essentially a deep overhook or wizzer applied to the elbow if the opponent doesn't have his underhook in deep enough or out far enough. Creates tremendous ude garami/americana/top wrist lock (it's a shoulder lock, but the name derives from double wrist lock, grabbing your opponents and your own wrist) pressure. Instead of your hand grabbing the opponent's wrist, you grab it with your armpit. All of this is just happening one lever further down the chain, possible because your opponent is holding a lever. As I went looking for examples of this wrist grab I came across Fiore (I think Flos Duellatorum): 1st Scholler of 1st remedy of master, the move Fiore flows into after the move you showed. Which is this shoulder crank that I thought of. Very ingenious to perform the move one lever down the chain. 4:08 and 10:20 One is the upside down/gyaku/ura/whatever version of the other. Proper disarms that make use of the same mechanics as most useful wristlocks. I suppose they would work best from a clinch with some kind of wrist control, Russian 2-on-1, or revered kimura grip. I would never dare do these techniques immediately against a stab. But the plays are just a training aid. Training a technique this way is no different than a freestyle wrestles drilling double leg takedowns with a partner who rests in a position to be attacked every time. 5:36 "There are problems with this." this is a technique I've always struggled with when I was younger. It seems like strong people could always do it to me but I never to them. Nowadays I can make it work but only if someone complies or I don't care about injuring my partner. Not really a technique with an in-between area for control. I tend to go for a Russian 2-on-1 or stretch the elbow on my torso instead of using my hand to press against it. But then again, if someone attacks you with a knife, you don't have to worry about injuring your opponent. That lack-of-control-gap I have during sparring might not be there for everyone. But make sure whether you have that gap before using it to say, escort someone off the premise as a security officer. You don't want to put yourself in the position that you have to choose between giving up control entirely or using excessive force once someone starts to be non-compliant. "Know yourself" as Sun Tsu would say, not only with this technique but really any technique you are planning to use. Know your abilities and limits. When I do this technique against resistance I usually end up taking the back with an arm drag or a Russian 2-on-1. safe to say this technique can definitely work but is not my personal favorite XD 6:12 Very common standing shoulder lock/(modified) ude garami/Americana. Usually, the right arm would reach in deeper so your elbowpit would be the fulcrum their elbow (just above it) would rest on and you have two hands to apply torque at the wrist. 7:42 "This is not going to be easy" I have to agree. wrist control like that is a very common and pretty strong one (straight across and upside down grip/ice cream cone grip). Used a lot in Olympic wrestling. Grabbing it out of thin air is something I wouldn't dare to attempt. Again: this play is a training tool, but I believe this technique would be far better suited in a situation where you somehow got a clinch with wrist control. Still, once you have wrist control (and chances are that you will have wrist control pretty often during sparring), this is a proper technique that could lead into single legs, body locks, or a disarm as is the case here. 8:40 Fairly common throw in Asian martial arts. I know it from karate and chin na. In Patrick McCartney's translation of the Bubishi it's called "Going fight with one knife" (although Google translate on the image says:"Single-handedly go to the meeting to win". In Analysis of Shaolin Chin na, on page 214 it's called "Look to the heavens and shout" or "Yang Tian Chang Xiao". But for some reason, it doesn't seem to be a part of the judo Gokyo-no-waza. Although there are a couple of throws in there that might be similar enough that a judoka would use their name after a tweek or two (in particular the opponent's arm placement). 9:00 This version is more in line with how Morio Higaonepresents it in his example of Geki sai (dai ichi) kata in 'Traditional Karate-Do Vol. 3 (1989)' 9:32 In the image the attack comes from the opponent's left and is taught by our right. The technique is similar to judo's ko-soto's (gari/gake). You perform 9:31 a catch with your left hand against an attack from the opponent's right. This is logical, but it switches things around and you end up sweeping the same leg, but with your other leg. This is an o-soto (gari/otoshi, if you put some action it during sparring it might even become an o-soto-guruma). To anyone wondering whether a hand on the throat would even do anything against a helmet: Yes, it would increase the leverage you can get by passing on a higher part of the body than say, the chest or shoulder. One might even grab the visor and push against it. 9:43 Very very common position in modern knife defence courses. I've heard it go by different names but I like to call it a pre-arm-drag-hug. 9:55 O-soto again. Simply very effective. 10:05 Kicking... need I say more? Who am I kidding? Of course I'm gonna say more XD Simmiilarly as to how the reach of the sword is determent by the rotational point of the shoulder. A maximum reach kick will be at hip height... that happens to be, not in the belly XD But depending on your flexibility and balance. a "teep" to the chest or an oblique kick to the thigh, all might be excellent front kicks to use.
10:20 This time the technique (described earlier as the gyaku version of 4:08) is performed from2-on-1 wrist control. Very nice. 10:52 Hip hinging is also very common. The HEMA manuscripts also seem to have their fair share of hinged positions and I imagine they would use this concept in this context too. My only advice is to close the distance even while you're pulling your hips "away". Space between the blade and your body needs to be large, and it will still be even if you enter. It's one of the most difficult things, entering into a grapple. But one must stay out of range while parrying and evading, or one must close the distance. Either way, commit to the tactic until you switch and then commit to the other tactic. Do not linger at "punching distance" (with these long medieval knives maybe a little longer XD). 11:10 This is defiantly one you would have seen in modern knife defence and traditional martial arts alike. The pictures show two versions. The one on the left has a right-handed grip on his left wrist, the one on the right has a left-handed grip on his right wrist (because he carries a dagger). These are shoulder rotations, ude garami/top wrist lock/americana variations. If the person on the right loses the knife and grabs the opponent's right wrist, or hooks his knife (or guard) behind the opponent's wrist (I can see that he doesn't do that but I can't imagine not doing it and just pushing with a balled fist, he would be doing the ubiquitous modern ude garami/Americana. 11:36 Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na, by Yang Jwing-Ming (2004), page 209 calls this: "Yi Zhun Ding Tian" or "One post to support the heavens". Over-rotating the arm so the elbow faces up (in the right image the elbow faces up and the back is turned. But I can't tell if the thumb is pointed down or if the artist gave this knight two left hands) and you are almost back to back with your opponent has one of the best names in this book (p 198): "Old man caries fish on his back" ("Lao Han Bei Yu") 14:01 Old school kata guruma/fireman's carry (in kodokan judo you're no longer allowed to grab the leg like that). 14:08 Waki gatame type control into a disarm. Waki gatame is very effective. So much so that judo has banned it due to injuries and some people want it to be banned in the unified MMA rules. 15:50 Cross blocks are very common and lead into wrist locks and then disarms. Again, you don't have to initiate it from an attack from a neutral position. 11:50 Your talk about failure point is a talk I have to have very often with new students. "But what if I do this?" they ask halfway through a technique... "But what If I punch you?" they ask while I'm completely set up for a throw in slow motion. A technique has a beginning and an end with a timeline in between. Every technique can be defended, probably in multiple ways on multiple places on that timeline. But the thing is, time moves pretty quick in real life. You're not going to be able to throw in a couple of punches while a grappler enters a throw after a set-up. You need good setups and good tactics/combinations/chaining techniques. These plays are just a way to learn them. Only when you pull them off during sparring (someone with the right size and intensity) will be able to look yourself in the eye and say:"I *can* do this technique". If a technique keeps failing during sparring... don't even mind a real fight (competition or self-defence). You won't be able to magically pull off more than you can during sparring. 12:39 "Could you pull this off against a resisting opponent?" Yes. With the right setups and a proper foundation of basic grappling and striking one could make these techniques work against resisting opponents. These are good techniques. You might prefer one over the other, but you'll only find out during training and sparring. It's like asking whether one could pull off a double-leg takedown against a resisting opponent. Without training probably not. With good setups and tactics, you can probably take a lot of people down with a double-leg takedown. Even when some black belt karateka asks you "But couldn't I just knee you in the face?" as you demonstrate the technique slowly. Maybe... but those are rare events. Fight someone with a similar skill level as yourself and you have a 50/50 chance of winning. Give someone a knife (force multiplier) and they don't have to have the same skill level as you in order to make it extremely dangerous. You might even win... and die hours later. Could you pull techniques off against resisting opponents? Yes. Could you lose a fight despite the best techniques and training? Yes. It happens every time when two people compete at high level sports events: one of them loses. Even the winners will get hurt most of the time. For self-defence, you must define "winning". Maybe running away and escaping, maybe defending your children so they can flee. Sometimes you can die winning, and sometimes you lose even when you are unharmed. "Winning" is very contextual and personal. There are plenty of reasons not to run away, and many of them are valid. Some of them are less valid (like ego). You might not be a fast runner. Not only does your opponent can catch up, but now he can attack you from the rear. You might have no place to run (opponent in between exit and you). You might have a moral duty to certain people that rely on you for protection (can't leave your child in their stroller while you run away). We do a game where you have to continue even though you think you are dead. I only call time at 30 stabs. Most people give up after only one or two. Sure you might die... but you might not. If you die you may buy other people some time. Much rather die fighting than die the moment you give up on life. Maybe others may live because of it. Maybe it is your job to fight when needed (police, military, LEO, security). Also nothing wrong with fleeing in certain contexts. But don't let people tell you that running away is always the best defence. Only a sith deals in absolutes. Fighting is complex and personal. TLDR: Old school masters knew what they were talking about.
I don’t know if this has already been said, but I think for like…2 million subscribers Skall should take a trip to Australia and spar with Shad, that is something I would absolutely love to see
What i was taught was "if you're up against someone with a knife, expect to get stabbed or cut, and if you come up against someone with a gun, expect to get shot" and the mentality of my sensei was not thinking of it like you're gonna fail, moreso that you're gonna get hurt and the techniques i learned were to either lessen the damage against attackers with weapons or defend myself against those without them.
I did Eskrima Combat since the HEMA schools closed where I was from (at least with presential instructors) and, from the techniques I still remember, we do something similar to 6:45, but we block and then control the elbow, but we take a step forward to the outside, making the arm close and force it back, so the opponent as to follow and fall, then control the arm, disarm, and the rest what you want Also, my instructor teached us we is this kind of techiniques as more of a last resort, because unnarmed against knife can be pretty horrible and almost impossible to leave without injury, we practiced mainly to have a repertoire of techniques and movements so we can have some degree of control and adaptability, even if techniques don't go as the book I may have written some things wrongly (not english speaker), so if you find something not easy to understand, i'll try to explain myself better EDIT: Please check my other comment LOL
11:55 we would step away as we block the attack, making it a more fluent movement, I could ask my instructor if you want, because I think we have the same technique 14:30 we are teached that getting a hold "instantly" is really difficult as you said so we can't relay on that, usually block and then control, because blocking is more important as you don't get killed LOL using the clothes to grip is useful depending what you are trying to do (not all clothing will react exactly the same) I will clarify I'm not consider myself an expert and I may explaining myself poorly LOL, I was writing as I was seeing and noticed you also said a repertoire
most important info in this great video: If someone shows you a technique that seems effortless and doesn't explain, run! Yes, especially when it's unarmed defense against an armed attacker, but if it looks too easy to be true, it is
I think what you said about grabbing the clothes makes sense, also a lot of these things where you lean on the blade to wrench it free wouldn’t work if you were bare skinned (not as well anyway) so I think this microcosm of the macrocosm assumes you and your opponent have some sort of light armor on by the very least. I still think it’s a good toolbox against a variety of weapons and even against guys with fists, those arm breaks in an altercation would be savage period. I think good wrestlers would find a lot of this stuff to be common sense/instincts. The manuscript you showed teaches an under pattern correspondent to chess, your opponent’s latest move is their newest weakness.
Remember what he says about daggers being mostly not that sharp unlike knives today. Although, getting a bad cut on your hand beats getting stabbed to death
Some things to keep in mind: - Proactive action will ALWAYS* defeat reaction. Typical reflexes lag about 0.12 to 0.18 seconds behind, which is roughly how long it takes for someone with a dagger to have already stabbed you. By the time you see the dagger move, you are already stabbed. You have to predict, then move in real time with the attacker rather than reacting to them. They will not be able to react to your movements either. Both of you are, for at least 0.12 seconds, effectively blind to what the other is doing. Whatever you do as "the defender" should work if the knife attacker is going for a feint, so that they walk right into you whether they commit or not. This is where good defense training comes in - you have to know the mechanics, so that you choose the right defense technique that can work either way. Otherwise you get scenarios that play out with you getting stabbed. - The statistics on dagger defense techniques (modern ones) reflect a harsh reality. Even a good, sound technique will only work 8-10% of the time. Almost all of the remaining 90-92% is the defender getting stabbed. Knife beats no knife; full stop. What good knife defense actually gets you is that 8-10% chance to beat a knife - without good defense, you lose that exchange 100% of the time. You aren't trying to be better than a knife. You are trying to have at least a chance. - You have less effective threat range AND a much smaller threat, unarmed against a dagger. So it is unreasonable to expect a favorable outcome. The best you can do is neutralize the dagger's advantages. Attacking first by moving forward neutralizes the threat range advantage - you can now both hurt each other. You can match the dagger's threat level only in certain ways - this is why a lot of techniques are getting the dagger, breaking the arm at the elbow, tossing someone on their head, striking violently to the neck, etc etc. Only certain attacks are going to have enough violence in them to match the dagger reasonably. I love this video. Hope to see more things like this, personally. Take that decisiveness into your sword vs spear fighting, Skall. It will serve you well to think of such fights the same way you think of hands vs dagger.
Ngl. I fell asleep in the middle of a Skall binge. Woke up an hour later right at the end with Skall telling me to fuck off. You have no idea how confused I was lmao
Fun to watch, especially how badly it went after he actually started trying 😆 Next best thing to try out: Duel-wielding shields against a knife attacker?
@@Specter_1125 Completely agree, in the situation you have no other choice being trained in this will be a lifesaver. Was just poking at Skall using unconventional weapons:) But damn it's fun to watch him trying 'em out!
For the technique at 5:42ish. I recommend not just pushing on the point of the elbow, but also rotating the arm clockwise, the same way you rotate it counter clockwise in the following technique. If the elbow is bent it works somewhat better but it can be done on a straight arm too. And gripping the inside side of the elbow is better for this than the outside or point.
i think a big problem with most of these techniques is that training them with a non compliant partner is very hard if you dont want to seriously hurt them. that is because most of them end in somehow breaking the arm and doing them at full speed its really easy to overshoot your target of *just* disarming them. especially if they resisted and you tension built up in a move and suddenly breaks away if you want to keep your sparring partner " that is NOT good"
I always like watching legit knife defence videos. Very enjoyable watching one based on the medieval manuscripts. The overall consensus is to run away, or, Dodge, strike the face quick and then run away. Be aware of your surroundings and never let sketchy dude in stabbing distance. Or, practice crazy weird tia chi forearm blocking for years and years, and then still try to run away because it doesn't work very well.
Grabbing either the thumb or the palm of the hand near the pinky is mandatory however you are absolutely correct merely grabbing the clothing to rinse his elbow around to put pressure on either the elbow or the shoulder is quite effective. Although you only want to be able to apply Leverage with the hand you must absolutely have a good grip. Once you have one hand on his wrist and hand and the other gripping a portion of his clothing at or slightly beyond the elbow. It is the tentative man that turns his back on his enemy whom receives the greatest rewards. Just remember when going into a pentative stance you want him to fall on his elbow as that would point the dagger away from you if he started with an overhand swing and hug his elbow and let him fall on his face if he started with an underhand swing. Hi there Direction you're not finished until he is faced down and you are face up holding his arm tightly to your chest elbow at 90°.
I successfully pulled off the first technique in real life once. A woman ran at me with a large butcher knife. I got the knife away from her. I was lucky my muscle memory took over from years of martial arts training.
2 main rules I was thought against a knife attack. 1. Run B... RUN!!! (If he only wants something give it up, if that person only wants to hurt you focus on escaping you don´t need to put your life at risk) 2. If you can´t run and you must deal with the knife always prepare to get CUT! especially mentally also focus on keeping the knife away from any vital points. Anyway, love the motions skall showed in the vid!
A more modern interpretation of the move at 5:35 would be to hook the elbow with your left arm instead of just pressing against it with your hand. its called a russian 2-on-1 and by hooking the arm, you bring your opponent's elbow against your chest. Then you can bend your body forward and extend the arm using the weight of your entire upper torso instead of just your arm. Since you're closer to the opponent, it also makes it far easier to stop him from turning into you.
Been training in shodokan (Tomiki to some) aikido and interesting to see how similar the techniques are! We do sparring with foam knives (straight thrusts only, no ice pick grip). The most I’ve learnt from it is get off the line of the attack, get a two on one, and try and throw them, which seems to be exactly what the manuscripts are trying to teach. Nothing new under the sun I guess.
i think skall actually mentioned something similar to this in a recent video, about how all effective martial arts will have moves that someone training with different techniques will be able to recognize. there’s only so many ways that someone can move their body efficiently after all.
The "more brutal" version of the block and throw (and blow to the throat) is right out of the Northern Shaolin Praying Mantis Kung-Fu style I started learning back in the 70's. Very effective.
As someone who's practiced martial arts for almost 10 years now, mainly taekwondo, I found this video very interesting. The technique at 10:20 looks very similar to something I would do in real life, but it would end with me lifting their arm, placing their elbow on my shoulder so I can break their arm before stepping back and throwing them over that same arm. These techniques definitely have some merit to them but if someone attacked me with a knife then I'm probably going to just run if I can, if not then I'd so something that I was trained to do. Personally I think that's the biggest problem with modern self defense is that people watch a bunch of videos and then think that they're a 5th dan black belt over night. If you want to learn how to defend yourself then please for the love of god get an instructor. You can not learn how to properly fight and defend yourself by yourself. You need input from someone who knows what they're talking about so that way they can point out what you're doing wrong. I'd highy recommend joining your local dojo, unless they're one of those that try to sell that you can take someone down by pinching a nerve. My point is don't think that just because you watched this video that you're an expert. If someone pulls a knife or any kind of weapon, RUN! Defenses against weapons are just a last resort meaning they are only to be used if you can't get away. Don't go thinking that running from someone who has a weapon is cowardly because to be blunt fighting someone who's armed is just plain stupid. Now if you're trying to defend someone from someone else then that's a different story, but you'd want to get out of that situation as soon as you could. Self defense is messy, chaotic and violent but the more you learn, the more you tip the scales in your favor.
My favorite "what to do in a knife fight" video, is the one with the army guys in the desert. By time one guy pulls the knife, the other dude is already like 100ft away, full sprint. Funny and sensiable.
Personally, I fucking hated it. Yeah, sure, if you see the knife dude, and you think you can outrun him, then run.
If you have loved ones nearby that cannot run that fast, if you do not think you can outrun him, or if you just see the knife when the attack already began (which is the norm), then this advice goes from good to dangerous and becomes equivalent to other feel good bullshit like "muh deescalation™", "muh pepperspray" or bullshido arts that barely sparr at all.
Except you dont see 90% of knife attacks coming and wont be able to run away.
@@heibk-2019 I dont think thats a flaw exclusive to attempting to flee. If you don't see a lethal attack coming, yur kinda fucked regardless
That video was the first i had on mind😂
Unless you have a compelling reason to stay, running really is the smartest play .
I love how Skall's sparring partner is desperately trying not to lose his shit every time Skall mentions Butt Attack Punisher Girl.
today I learned a thing 🙃
What's the anime title?
Yeah, I was admittedly caught a tad off guard :p
didn't quite expect the zoom shot of my wtf-moment to be captured, though xD
@@elgatochurro I too must know this anime's title for science of course XD
@@elgatochurro I want to know the butt catch and the cleavage catch animes just for the experience of seeing them explained.
I just can't get over how epic the beard on Skall's training partner is. Oh, and the knife defense stuff is interesting and informative as well
Easy bro u gon get skall jealous
hes got a really good style in general, like a middle aged bandit
I really enjoyed this one, seeing the manuscripts read by someone familiar with HEMA and then demonstrated with an opponent both slow and resisting is really interesting. Shows these techniques were actually well thought out and developed in terms of understanding body mechanics and manipulating them.
They were more battle tested than modern ideas, I'm fairly sure - anything that didn't work then would've been dropped and fast, since even a basic cut could well have been fatal. These days, they can tuck your guts back in and stitch you up if you make it to the hospital alive.
Is there ground-fighting in hema? I mean, a fight isnt over just because your on your back and on the ground, eight? You can stil defend youself while on the ground, right?
@@evanevanf4033stop rolling on the floor
I enjoyed watching this, seeing how medieval manuscripts were teaching techniques that looked familiar to the techniques I learned in my BJJ and Judo. And I concur with your parting words, these are still unarmed techniques against an armed assailant. And yes, always, always de-escalate and always leave. We never know if there are hidden weapons or there's more of them lingering nearby.
their is no absouts when it comes to this kind of situations. if it´s a robery. then give the robber what they want. it´s not worth dying for stuff and money. If the person is out to kill others. then runing isn´t realy a option. the faster the attacker is taken out the better.
@@exploatores You mean "give the robber what they want, then pray that they don't kill you anyway"?
If the robber doesn't kill you immediately, there's a good chance that they will let you live. I looked up the statistics for my country. About 90.000 cases of robbery in 2019, 2 of them left the victim dead.
@@WJS774 then they go from something that might give them a few years at most. to life in prison. if the police finds them.
Why do i feel like this is one of those things where you practice for years and years finally getting proficient at knife defense so you can reliable counter it like 99% of the time..😌
Only to get shot with gun ..😲
😏😏🤔😂
Kali enthusiast and instructor here, unarmed knife defense is bleak even if you do your techniques perfectly. Interestingly, when it comes to knife vs knife, the most likely outcome is mutual destruction. Gotta love it.
In fairness, mutual destruction was a very common outcome for sword duels too, didn't stop headstrong nobles from running eachother through for centuries though.
@@webbowser8834 The difference is, a sword can one-shot someone and end the fight. Daggers do a lot of damage too, but they lack the stopping power compared to swords - so the other guy has plenty of time to stab you back before the bleeding gets him.
@@marcusc9931 Ok yeah, that's a fair point.
never bring a knife to a knife fight
Is the reason why you don’t do reverse grip with a knife is because it’s easier to block?
Thumbs up for the disclaimer(s). Like you said, too many dodgy people out there claim that their near-magic trick can work for anybody any size and fitness against any assailant.
In a modern day setting it would probably be wise to scream "KNIFE!" at the top of your lungs to at least (hopefully) have somebody nearby aware that they might have to call emergency services in case of a bad outfall.
Or be an American and show flash your gun at them, then they will run away. Shame most people in the world are disarmed.
And run
Screaming that might be less effective than you think. Bystander syndrome is a real issue, most people will just ignore that call
@@kempbrown4402 eh, still better than just dying in silence
@@kempbrown4402it’s still better to try it if you can then not try it. At best someone will respond, and the attacker will be momentarily taken aback. At worst nothing happens and your still running.
Although the techniques are unrefined, I think you've got the right mindset for these techniques.
One big suggestion I will give you (I offer this advice as I've been training with the Exiles, who do a lot of dagger - i'd say 50% of classes are dagger, for over 8 years) is that when you're trying to stop dagger attacks, don't chase to grab their arms / weapon etc. Simply focus on covering a line. The sheer variety of techniques that you find in medieval manuscripts when it comes to fighting daggers is to give you plenty of options from all the different ranges / grips you will find yourself in after stopping the initial strike.
The second suggestion I will offer is to keep your body structure strong and upright, and to try to close down the attacks. The natural reaction is to move away from the attacks as they come in, or to go fetal against them, and while this is appropriate sometimes, if you move in on the attacks, as well as offline, you stifle their ability to pull back and stab again, as well as giving yourself more chances to grab hold of something, and more angles to escape to.
For more tips and info on dagger combat, especially from a Fiore perspective, check out our TH-cam page. You can find it just by searching 'Exiles CMMA' - we have a lot of videos dealing with dagger which you might find useful and enlightening!
Keep up your journey Skall!
I like that you mention on covering lines and positioning.
Good points. I noticed the moving away too. From my experience with judo I know that moving away makes it extremely difficult to grab their arms at all. You have to reach your arms out faster than you're moving backwards and any pulling away they do becomes stronger. By moving in and, if possible, moving your body towards the shoulder of the arm you're tackling you have a much better chance of grabbing and controlling it. However, of course it's more dangerous to move in than it is to move away so it's a risk you need to weigh up given how confident you feel against the incoming attack. Also, I 100% get why Skall's default is to move the way he does, it's more optimal for a lot of armed fighting.
@@chrismarlow9585 The movements could be alternated - a parry and move out for the initial attacks and then a move in with a tackle-like pressure for the follow up swings after the defender gets a feel of the attacker's flow or something.
Loved the quick aside at 12:37 . Thats something a Lot of people need to understand about Plays in Manuscripts. Most of them aren't about using the Play Step for Step in an actual fight, its just about developing an intuitive understanding of the Body mechanics involved with Fighting, and the muscle memory to perform these High-Risk Techniques when an opportunity arises.
Haha I love this one, it feels like a video from a decade ago, with the single overhead camera angle, and Skall seems so happy and excited
Loving this HEMA hand-to-hand combat, would love to see more.
This is nice and timely given Tom and Schola's recent Rondel Dagger video. I think putting an edge on daggers was really more of a nice feature to have but the primary purpose seemed to be for puncturing through armor of all types. For real life application I think the best defense is to flee when you're unarmed and someone pulls a knife. If fleeing isn't a possibility then I think the best bet would be to get that initial block and turn it into a wrestling match where you strictly go for control of the limb holding the weapon. And in that case suffering a maiming wound to your hand is probably worth staying alive, so outright grasping a blade in order to gain control of it would be worthwhile.
Reminds me of a story i read where the victim got hold of the knife when it pierced through his palm and assailant's grip slipped, leaving it lodged in the victim's hand where he could pull it out with his other hand.
Don't forget, if you've got a hand on the blade, it can't really cut unless it can slide, so hang on to the attacking arm/hand with your other hand as if your life is depending on it!
The primary purpose was not universally to puncture armor. Tod's rondel is _heavily_ optimized towards armor penetration and is far less optimized for cutting than most other dagger types, including ones contemporary with rondels. If we liken them to swords, that dagger was equivalent to an estoc, when most swords were compromise cut-and-thrust blades.
7:30 For Fiore at least, this technique (disarm from 3rd master) works not because you step out of the line of the attack, but rather because your opponent does it for you. If you have a guy and you stab at him in the icepick grip and use the very first technique in the video (1st master disarm), he can counter it by turning his dagger under your arm and stab you from the reverse side (your right, his left). If he does that, our 7:30 disarm works a lot better, because it was your opponent who gave you his outside. If you want to slap away his initial attack like this, Fiore says in his 1st master play (24 on Wiktenauer): 1) it is a rare defense, 2) you should follow it up with a strike to the torso.
As always your sparring partner has a magnificent beard
I'm gonna say it; it's fun to see your sparring partner, and I hope to see more of him in the videos! Also great video, and it is sad you need to include like 50 disclaimers, but we all know how some people are. On your note about running, I noticed some of the techniques showed armored knights--this insinuates a battlefield or armored duel scenario where running wouldn't really be an option as well, I thought that was quite interesting to notice.
This was a fun video Skal. And that is good.
If you're wearing armour, especially gauntlets, you have more options as well, since you can actively block the blade with those. You're also going to worry less about getting the blade pressed against your arm while binding your opponent.
I really enjoyed this video, especially your stylistic representation of the manuscripts! Very nice work!
I've really been enjoying the content, Skall! Thanks!
“This is good” and “This is also good” sounds like Bas Rutten’s self defense videos
*Slaps man in the liver with knife so hard his ribs turn to dust*
I love those videos.
I really enjoyed this video, i’m a security guard in London and have seen my share of knives. While the best advice definitely is to defuse the situation before violence, never the less some really interesting techniques.
When it does happen the natural reaction is to grapple but these more planed techniques will be fun to practice.
Honestly it's probably best compared to someone attacking with a broken bottle (which is more obvious, stab-only, and blunt on the sides)! The security guard thing made me think of it: I used to work security in nightclubs, and that was a very real concern. Especially since our employer refused to get us stab vests.
@@EladarImm
What no stab vests ???
You’re in Roadhouse situation and vests can save lives
Some of those techniques are *similar* to bjj and catch wrestling techniques such as the Americana and other arm locks from a standing position. As always, it's better if used in grappling range rather than at boxing distance, but you dont always get the choice.
This channel definitely needs more of "showing things from medieval fechtbooks". Goofing around with bat'leth is fun, but this is better.
Please note that if you're training these kinds of moves do not make an habit of giving the knife back to your training partener.
It's better to lay it on the ground and the other person to pick it.
I heard a story of a person who had training and disarmed the assailant and gave the knife back to him after disarming him.
Muscle memory can screw you over.
Loved the editing, the manuscripts, the camera angle, the number of techniques covered, the demonstrations, etc. :)
It's interesting how many of these are similar to aikido techniques. The main one I noticed was at 5:30, which they call ikkyo. When we did it in my class, you'd want to push their shoulder down, so it hits the ground before the hand, and use your footwork to pull them off balance.
Ikkyo is essentially a shoulder lock, whereas the 5:30 technique seemed to be trying to hyperextend the elbow. Ikkyo keeps the opponent's elbow flexed while manipulating the opponent's shoulder.
Your friend did a good job! I have tried to be a demonstration partner in various martial arts classes, not as simple as just taking a beating! Kept the flow going with minimal distraction.
From an experienced (30+ years) and "traditional Okinawan" martial arts perspective, I would note the following things:
First, these techniques are nearly if not totally identical to traditional Eastern martial arts techniques, though they tend to focus more on unarmed versus armed defense, in terms of how they grip and manipulate. Extending from that;
Second, as you clearly stated, the knives these are defending against were not the same as modern knives, and so make manipulating them a lot "safer". And;
Third, from some of the illustrations from the manuals, they are done while wearing armor, often plate. I think it is obvious that even with fully edged daggers that would provide significant protection for grabbing and bracing against casual cuts and scrapes from light pressure.
Those two combined are, I think, a critical factor in some of the disconnect between what is taught and what is functional, as techniques for martial (war) defense are adapted for civil (street) defense.
Fourth, regarding resistance, that is absolutely correct. In fact, that is a key factor in almost all locking maneuvers - they can be rather easily resisted - unless they are initiated with full speed and total disregard for the injury they will cause - or perhaps more accurately with total intent to cause injury. Locks and joint manipulations done in practice have to be slower and with less intent to avoid breaking your training partner, and that makes them considerably easier to resist. Do them not caring about how many joints you dislocate, tendons your shred, and bones you break and SUDDENLY! they become surprisingly easier to perform. Of course, finding a volunteer for your next demonstration will become surprisingly more difficult. Related to that is other supporting moves, like the hand to the face, throat, or elbow, all of which reduce resistance proportional to the force used, along with increasing injury to your training partner.
These factors both reduce the seeming effectiveness as well as increase perceptions that they are gimmicky because your training partner complies with the moves rather than resists and increases the chance of injury.
Fifth, regarding grabbing clothing, instead consider grabbing and digging into muscle and tendons. Yes, it takes longer and more focus, but the pain from it increases shock and decreases resistance, making the follow up techniques easier to perform. Clearly armor, even gambeson, will reduce that effectiveness, but it should be standard for completely unarmored civil defense.
This would make for some pretty awesome fight scene choreographies. Thank you and your sparring partner for showing :)
That's actually what I came here for - this channel's been very helpful for my writing
“Let’s just leave it at that. Thanks for watching. Fuck off”
10/10 outro
A couple of rules to remember in a knife fight...it doesn't matter the technique, you will get some level of cut and if all you do is try and block, deflect, disarm, pretty much anything without counter attacking in some way to give them a reason to stop stabbing you or at least to give them something else to think about you will lose. Oh and the moment you have distance, sneaker fu is your best friend.
Yeah there is no winner in a knife fight mostly (ofc if you don't wear mail shirt like metatron)
Sindri: What video are we doing today?
Skall: The grappling dagger one.
Sindri: **sighing and putting on elbow braces**
I’ve been thoroughly enjoying these latest videos Skall! Taking a deep dive into both the context of historical techniques as well as the actual mechanics of them is something you surprisingly don’t see as much of.
Fall not for the scam of the scammer, for he is a scammer, and doth scam.
@Skall - another great video - thank you.
I finally purchased my first two swords:
1. The new version of the Cold Steel Kriegsmesser (lower quality replica of the Albion Knecht)
2. The LK Chen Snow Peak Jian
I know a ton about knives, but very little about swords. That said, I think that I got some good blades to start my journey.
Wish me luck...
Hi! Awesome video! It's amazing how so many of these techniques look similar to knife defense stuff we find today and how you're able to put them together with just manuscripts, pressure testing and common sense! I'm an Escrima/Filipino Martial Arts practitioner and it was interesting to see how much of it resembles stuff that I've learned. Actually the 'partial success' empty hand parries and blocks are something we train a lot of too, so it was interesting seeing that happening in live sparring even when the grapples and disarms failed. Again, tons of respect and amazing video. It's always so cool to see HEMA practitioners developing these things and to see what we can all learn from each other and the commonalities and differences among styles!
These newer technique videos are super interesting!! Really enjoying the demonstrations and info that goes along with them!
It's good to know that there *are* options for defending yourself against a knife or dagger if you're unarmed, and that having multiple options is better for your chances of survival than having just one, or none at all. Also glad that you went into detail about how these techniques could go wrong or just be avoided. Seen too many videos floating around where people don't do that, they just make out that the technique is flawless when it really isn't.
Also loved that ending "Thanks for watching, fuck off." Stay classy XD
Fall not for the scam of the scammer, for he is a scammer, and doth scam.
If there were a flawless technique, everyone would be using it. And consequently develop a counter to it.
It wasn’t too long, as matter-of-fact was one of the best videos you made; and I am telling you this by being one of your fans!
Really enjoyable video from start to finish! Hard to believe we haven't seen the self-stab technique done in a movie yet!
Ooo, a new Skall video! I think this is the earliest I've ever been to a new upload!
I really love these more martial videos. I missed them.
Insight from having been in two stabbing attempts doing unarmed security:
The first time, a woman pulled out a pair of scissors and jabbed at my belly. I pushed her in the shoulders as hard as I could and with as much range as I could get and immediately backed away. She walked away after I pushed her and I still think about how close a call it was.
The second time, a man pulled out a small knife. We were standing very close to each other and out of "measure", so he couldn't really get his knife pointed at me very well. I grabbed his forearm with my right hand and sort of wrapped my left arm around his, up to the shoulder, basically pinning his entire outer arm fully extended against my chest. My coworker wrestled the knife out of the guy's hand and we took him down to the ground.
Adrenaline can make your perception of time weird. I remember everything vividly, like seeing it in slow motion, but both these attempts can't have been more than a second long. My brain understood what to do, and when I think back I can sort of "hear" myself narrating my actions - but in the moment I wasn't consciously formulating a play by play plan.
I don't train for this sort of thing, and don't plan to (outside of for fun in HEMA!). In these instances, I had advantages like home-turf, authority, backup, and sobriety working for me, all of which contribute to the psychology of the event. Also probably a lot of luck. Without these advantages, though, it's more than likely that I would fail to defend myself against a weapon.
Learned a similar technique to the first "uno-reverse card" move in a Pekiti Tirsia Kali class. They modified it by pulling the opponent towards you to unbalance them and reduce the likelihood of them resisting as you quickly reverse the direction of their thrust by hooking and pulling the elbow and controlling the hand at the wrist. Just thought it was cool that such different systems so far removed from each other in time and location have a similar move set.
Just goes to show that people will discover the same things without any communication. Just like when the allies discovered the jet engine around the same time the Germans did in the middle of wwll
I like that you emphasised how hard it is and showed it often not working in the sparring part. So many times I see this being like "Just take his knife away" and I'm like sure mr perfect practice.
Aikido has a lot of knife/dagger defensive techniques I think you'll find interesting. Some feel more viable than these techniques, others not so much.
It's always interesting to see how similar it all is.
In aikido their strong grip on the dagger can give you a ton of control over the wrist and elbow in the initial contact. The weapons techniques really is the heart of the martial art. The modern mcdojo nonsense really falls to the wayside when that much force and leverage is in play.
I loved the first thing you said in this video "Without me telling you what I'm going to do" very important in technique videos like this.
This was really enjoyable. As a former competitive wrestler and part time HEMA enthusiast. These techniques make a lot of sense. I would point out three things. 1. When attacked by a knife you WILL get cut your goal is to minimize the damage. 2. In keeping with number one, with shorter, more modern blades which are typically sharp you may save your life but you will be injured using any of the dagger stripping techniques. 3. This demonstration really makes some hilt configurations make a lot more sense. The combatant is sacrificing some dexterity in favor of a more secure grip when they know that opponents will have some knowledge of counters and disarm techniques.
Skall, you need someone who understands grappling (wrestler or bjj guy) to go over these with you. If you understood things like pummeling, head position and handfighting, you could likely had made some of those work live. Especially the russian tie one. Also, the one that you showed where you try to break the arm is an americana and the other direction it was asking for would have been kimura. If you have someone show you the correct hand position and way to finish that you could probably make that work too. I do appreciate you going live at the end with a low intensity spar though. That is a super important element when we are talking about these sorts of things. All in all I appreciate you taking an honest wack at this subject and I as always enjoyed the video!
Step 0 is always: run away if even remotely possible. Knife fighting is about as dangerous it gets. There's a popular saying that goes: "In a knife fight, the loser dies in the street, and the winner dies in the ambulance." Modern knives are very fast, very sharp, and force you to fight at a range that leaves very little room for mistakes. Only attempt to fight if you have absolutely no choice.
Or be a chad American and just carry a gun.
Gee, I never thought of it that way...
Yeah, get out, deescalate, or just hand over your wallet. Best options if available.
You often hear people arguing about being the faster runner and how important that is, like elsewhere in the comments here. I don't think it matters that much other than if you're significantly slower (and in that case defending is probably not an option anyway). But the first few steps are the most important. If you need to turn around to run while the attacker can stab you, you're probably not going to be well off. But if the attacker hesitates you will get a bit of a head start, which might be enough for the attacker to give up, since at that point it takes a lot more effort to take you down.
If you need to make time to turn around to run, it might just be better to take a stab in the hand or arm while trying to throw off the attacker than to take it in the gut or back.
That and nobody actually uses a knife in a big obvious way that is always shown for demonstrative purposes or cinematic effect. There's a reason you never see any techniques for disarming a knife wielder when you're tangled up in a brawl, because you're already dead.
@@gogzhp88 Pretty much, yeah. That's another great reason to comply or try to run away if you can. To paraphrase another comment, "If their intention was to stab you from the beginning, you'll never see the knife to begin with." Odds are if they're threatening you and showing you the knife, they would rather not fight you if they don't have to. It's only if you fight back that you increase your risk dramatically.
Watching these exercises really drives home a good point about fighting - and life. Success is a succession of failures. If one tactic fails, you adapt and respond with another until it works.
90s Jim Carey “You stabbed me wrong!”
I've been a HEMA/SCA dagger vs. dagger (or anything, really - it's my favorite!) fighter for about 15 years now and I still try to wrap my head around how these historical teachings could work. I think it would be great fun to spar someone who is well-trained in them!
This is reasonably informative and i find it very interesting how many of these techniques are still being taught. 10/10 great Video as always. also didn't skall uses to have the same gambison that his partner has, sorry, i'm bad with names no offense to him.
One of my favorite videos from you in a while, Skall! Excellent work as always, much love from the states
6:01 Hiki otoshi
8:45 Gyakugamae ate
11:11 Ude gaeshi
These names above are Jujutsu/Aikido techniques that looks very similar to the ones in the video. Just like with long sword and katana, it's interesting to see how the same techniques exist on the other side of the world. (Check Shodokan Aikido's 17 basic techniques to see the above)
This is great demonstration!
And pictures with text from manuscripts to accompany them - brilliant!
Even with martial arts such as the Filipino arts (which have a LOT of techniques for unarmed vs. knife), they always talk about how the best defense is to avoid the fight, because you WILL get cut. No mastery of any art can truly stop you from getting cut in a knife fight, even if you have a knife yourself. Even so, I like that there are ways you can avoid being killed if you ended up cornered and unarmed against a knife-wielding opponent.
Great stuff, Skal! I've been getting more and more into dagger and wrestling. These unarmed vs. dagger covers are tough unarmored for sure, but if you get good at them they can certainly be done against committed attacks. Wear armor and it gets a whoooole lot more likely.
I don't think we always appreciate how well-drilled these techniques are when Skall shows them. Good job!
It is a very good historical demonstration IMO. I have been training traditional martial arts and combat sports for 37 years and have worked in security and law enforcement for 20 years.
I believe they had it as right, as any modern knife defense, if not more so. Keeping in mind that this is the sort of thing that is the ideal scenario, it's gonna be messy, your gonna get hurt likely.
This would've been the sort of thing merely instructed to warriors, to give them some direction and confidence, to step into battle.
Also one or both combatants would've likely been wearing thick garments, gloves, chain mail or even armor.
Variations of two on ones, russian ties, overhooks, underhooks, armlocks and shoulder locks are essential to any grappling situation. Hence why many of these techniques have survived in modern combat sports.
Ty for posting, love the channel.
Great video. You guys both made me laugh, and your explanations for the techniques were helpful. I can't wait to take what I've learned today, and run away as soon as someone pulls a knife.
The knife was my 1st weapon when I started learning Jujutsu and I was always told to minimise the threat to myself, the trick to unarmoured knife defence is that you never grapple for the knife unless the opponent's already limp.
I haven't been doing HEMA for very long it's pretty new to me but in classes I'm always grappling the other way, with structure and a free hand you can hit or grab while you're pinning the weapon hand the wrong way. Locking away the weapon and pulling your opponent off balance should always come first.
My 1st year of Jujutsu was being pulled and thrown off balance and practicing on a fridge freezer, get a grip, pull and throw at speed no matter the weight or size of your opponent
10:02 and don't forget to restomp the groin XD
Just letting you know you baited me in with the” why art thou stabbing thyself?” bit. Kudos
Being a martial artist myself in the art of Silat this looks very functional and practical so i think it works however dont over look simply striking the knife hand/arm to get a disarm and follow up with fast and brutal strikes to his face and body until he is down and out.
Yup, I have trained Silat and FMA and agree. Attacking the weapon hand is very effective if you have trained it. Even more so if you have trained arts Cimande where the forearms are heavily conditioned so that when you strike the offending limb, you break it.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 Yes i do train to harden my bones and have been doing so for 2/1/2 years now and when i simply block a punch/kick from new friends they say to me,"Dam your blocks hurt so much"and i say well i only blocked lightly so they sure can feel it big time.
@aaa Well first of all you are not replying to a young snot nosed young guy and i happen to be very skilled at weapons and its true that using a weapon is the fastest easiest way to dispatch a threat and i also shoot as well as skilled with weapons so no i am not an idiot and the insult was not appreciated,you could have just ask me if i had any weapons training or not and my business name on my youtube has nothing to do with my interest in martial arts nor my love of weapons ,Lastly i served in the US Army and went to basic training at FT Knox 1985 B1-1 Tank crewman.Lastly you should not judge a book by its cover but that being said i am fine talking with you as long as we keep it respectful.
This just strengthens my desire to see a movie about medieval bodyguards. "Bodyguard" (the 2018 BBC mini series), or "Jon Wick" in renaissance Rome or Constantinople? So much untapped potential...
Top notch thumbnail game and intro!
Facts
Thanks!
@@Skallagrim impersonator-scammer needs blocking: th-cam.com/channels/vtPjmpk9zf43gOhNw8qngg.html
I have really enjoyed all of these sparring / resisted training videos, thanks for making them!
Some very cool techniques though in real life I think it's only a last resort. The best option would be to run if they look slower than you or pick up a rock and hold it as if your about to throw it and they would most likely flee.
Really great video, I appreciate your actualy use of the weapons in sparing!
I've been doing Meyers dagger for a while, and whilst I enjoy it, I have found it's very hard to actually get most of the techniques off in sparring, not to say they're useless by any means, but it does feel like the skill floor for them is quite high.
Yeah, Meyer is really difficult. I think it's important to remember that Meyer's techniques (whilst absolutely beautiful, refined and intelligent) are developped in and for sport. I say this as someone who loves Meyer.
I'd look at Fiore, if I were you. He's fun to read (kind of a dudebro), but his techniques are a bit less 'flashy'.
Torque = Force * Radius so if you double the distance from the moment center, you double the applied torque. Conversely, if you double the distance from the moment center, you only need half the force to apply the same torque.
Some basic Brazilian jiu jitsu moves in there. Super nice to see how most martial arts have a good deal of crossover. :)
Combat manuals think alike
I've been learning all these techniques at my HEMA club, and it's interesting to see how your interpretations differ from my instructors'.
The technique at 6:11 would break the upper arm if done with force. The motion is nearly identical to how arm wrestlers break their humerus bone with bad form.
do they lose their sense of humor as well once their bone breaks
Martial arts instructor here, with an interest in HEMA but I grew up with easter MA as my basis. For some reason I felt the need to debunk the air of Bullshido/McDojo that some people might have with these techniques. They do not exist in a vacuum and every single one of them has connections to techniques in combat sports or other partial arts. Some are rarely seen in combat sports due to the rulesets, but they might be more effective than some other common techniques once you throw a knife in there. I have an example or analogy for every technique in the video so buckle up!
2:36 It reminds me of a rather nameless shoulder crank. Used by Jon Jones against Glover in the UFC and apparently also in the third boxing match between Sandy Saddler and Willie Pep. In both these cases, the receiver of the technique got injured from it. Considered a bit of a "dick move" sometimes in MMA-related training, but very effective. It's essentially a deep overhook or wizzer applied to the elbow if the opponent doesn't have his underhook in deep enough or out far enough. Creates tremendous ude garami/americana/top wrist lock (it's a shoulder lock, but the name derives from double wrist lock, grabbing your opponents and your own wrist) pressure. Instead of your hand grabbing the opponent's wrist, you grab it with your armpit. All of this is just happening one lever further down the chain, possible because your opponent is holding a lever. As I went looking for examples of this wrist grab I came across Fiore (I think Flos Duellatorum): 1st Scholler of 1st remedy of master, the move Fiore flows into after the move you showed. Which is this shoulder crank that I thought of. Very ingenious to perform the move one lever down the chain.
4:08 and 10:20 One is the upside down/gyaku/ura/whatever version of the other. Proper disarms that make use of the same mechanics as most useful wristlocks. I suppose they would work best from a clinch with some kind of wrist control, Russian 2-on-1, or revered kimura grip. I would never dare do these techniques immediately against a stab. But the plays are just a training aid. Training a technique this way is no different than a freestyle wrestles drilling double leg takedowns with a partner who rests in a position to be attacked every time.
5:36 "There are problems with this." this is a technique I've always struggled with when I was younger. It seems like strong people could always do it to me but I never to them. Nowadays I can make it work but only if someone complies or I don't care about injuring my partner. Not really a technique with an in-between area for control. I tend to go for a Russian 2-on-1 or stretch the elbow on my torso instead of using my hand to press against it. But then again, if someone attacks you with a knife, you don't have to worry about injuring your opponent. That lack-of-control-gap I have during sparring might not be there for everyone. But make sure whether you have that gap before using it to say, escort someone off the premise as a security officer. You don't want to put yourself in the position that you have to choose between giving up control entirely or using excessive force once someone starts to be non-compliant. "Know yourself" as Sun Tsu would say, not only with this technique but really any technique you are planning to use. Know your abilities and limits. When I do this technique against resistance I usually end up taking the back with an arm drag or a Russian 2-on-1. safe to say this technique can definitely work but is not my personal favorite XD
6:12 Very common standing shoulder lock/(modified) ude garami/Americana. Usually, the right arm would reach in deeper so your elbowpit would be the fulcrum their elbow (just above it) would rest on and you have two hands to apply torque at the wrist.
7:42 "This is not going to be easy" I have to agree. wrist control like that is a very common and pretty strong one (straight across and upside down grip/ice cream cone grip). Used a lot in Olympic wrestling. Grabbing it out of thin air is something I wouldn't dare to attempt. Again: this play is a training tool, but I believe this technique would be far better suited in a situation where you somehow got a clinch with wrist control. Still, once you have wrist control (and chances are that you will have wrist control pretty often during sparring), this is a proper technique that could lead into single legs, body locks, or a disarm as is the case here.
8:40 Fairly common throw in Asian martial arts. I know it from karate and chin na. In Patrick McCartney's translation of the Bubishi it's called "Going fight with one knife" (although Google translate on the image says:"Single-handedly go to the meeting to win". In Analysis of Shaolin Chin na, on page 214 it's called "Look to the heavens and shout" or "Yang Tian Chang Xiao". But for some reason, it doesn't seem to be a part of the judo Gokyo-no-waza. Although there are a couple of throws in there that might be similar enough that a judoka would use their name after a tweek or two (in particular the opponent's arm placement).
9:00 This version is more in line with how Morio Higaonepresents it in his example of Geki sai (dai ichi) kata in 'Traditional Karate-Do Vol. 3 (1989)'
9:32 In the image the attack comes from the opponent's left and is taught by our right. The technique is similar to judo's ko-soto's (gari/gake). You perform 9:31 a catch with your left hand against an attack from the opponent's right. This is logical, but it switches things around and you end up sweeping the same leg, but with your other leg. This is an o-soto (gari/otoshi, if you put some action it during sparring it might even become an o-soto-guruma). To anyone wondering whether a hand on the throat would even do anything against a helmet: Yes, it would increase the leverage you can get by passing on a higher part of the body than say, the chest or shoulder. One might even grab the visor and push against it.
9:43 Very very common position in modern knife defence courses. I've heard it go by different names but I like to call it a pre-arm-drag-hug.
9:55 O-soto again. Simply very effective.
10:05 Kicking... need I say more? Who am I kidding? Of course I'm gonna say more XD Simmiilarly as to how the reach of the sword is determent by the rotational point of the shoulder. A maximum reach kick will be at hip height... that happens to be, not in the belly XD But depending on your flexibility and balance. a "teep" to the chest or an oblique kick to the thigh, all might be excellent front kicks to use.
10:20 This time the technique (described earlier as the gyaku version of 4:08) is performed from2-on-1 wrist control. Very nice.
10:52 Hip hinging is also very common. The HEMA manuscripts also seem to have their fair share of hinged positions and I imagine they would use this concept in this context too. My only advice is to close the distance even while you're pulling your hips "away". Space between the blade and your body needs to be large, and it will still be even if you enter. It's one of the most difficult things, entering into a grapple. But one must stay out of range while parrying and evading, or one must close the distance. Either way, commit to the tactic until you switch and then commit to the other tactic. Do not linger at "punching distance" (with these long medieval knives maybe a little longer XD).
11:10 This is defiantly one you would have seen in modern knife defence and traditional martial arts alike. The pictures show two versions. The one on the left has a right-handed grip on his left wrist, the one on the right has a left-handed grip on his right wrist (because he carries a dagger). These are shoulder rotations, ude garami/top wrist lock/americana variations. If the person on the right loses the knife and grabs the opponent's right wrist, or hooks his knife (or guard) behind the opponent's wrist (I can see that he doesn't do that but I can't imagine not doing it and just pushing with a balled fist, he would be doing the ubiquitous modern ude garami/Americana.
11:36 Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na, by Yang Jwing-Ming (2004), page 209 calls this: "Yi Zhun Ding Tian" or "One post to support the heavens". Over-rotating the arm so the elbow faces up (in the right image the elbow faces up and the back is turned. But I can't tell if the thumb is pointed down or if the artist gave this knight two left hands) and you are almost back to back with your opponent has one of the best names in this book (p 198): "Old man caries fish on his back" ("Lao Han Bei Yu")
14:01 Old school kata guruma/fireman's carry (in kodokan judo you're no longer allowed to grab the leg like that).
14:08 Waki gatame type control into a disarm. Waki gatame is very effective. So much so that judo has banned it due to injuries and some people want it to be banned in the unified MMA rules.
15:50 Cross blocks are very common and lead into wrist locks and then disarms. Again, you don't have to initiate it from an attack from a neutral position.
11:50 Your talk about failure point is a talk I have to have very often with new students. "But what if I do this?" they ask halfway through a technique... "But what If I punch you?" they ask while I'm completely set up for a throw in slow motion. A technique has a beginning and an end with a timeline in between. Every technique can be defended, probably in multiple ways on multiple places on that timeline. But the thing is, time moves pretty quick in real life. You're not going to be able to throw in a couple of punches while a grappler enters a throw after a set-up. You need good setups and good tactics/combinations/chaining techniques. These plays are just a way to learn them. Only when you pull them off during sparring (someone with the right size and intensity) will be able to look yourself in the eye and say:"I *can* do this technique". If a technique keeps failing during sparring... don't even mind a real fight (competition or self-defence). You won't be able to magically pull off more than you can during sparring.
12:39 "Could you pull this off against a resisting opponent?" Yes. With the right setups and a proper foundation of basic grappling and striking one could make these techniques work against resisting opponents. These are good techniques. You might prefer one over the other, but you'll only find out during training and sparring. It's like asking whether one could pull off a double-leg takedown against a resisting opponent. Without training probably not. With good setups and tactics, you can probably take a lot of people down with a double-leg takedown. Even when some black belt karateka asks you "But couldn't I just knee you in the face?" as you demonstrate the technique slowly. Maybe... but those are rare events. Fight someone with a similar skill level as yourself and you have a 50/50 chance of winning. Give someone a knife (force multiplier) and they don't have to have the same skill level as you in order to make it extremely dangerous. You might even win... and die hours later. Could you pull techniques off against resisting opponents? Yes. Could you lose a fight despite the best techniques and training? Yes. It happens every time when two people compete at high level sports events: one of them loses. Even the winners will get hurt most of the time. For self-defence, you must define "winning". Maybe running away and escaping, maybe defending your children so they can flee. Sometimes you can die winning, and sometimes you lose even when you are unharmed. "Winning" is very contextual and personal. There are plenty of reasons not to run away, and many of them are valid. Some of them are less valid (like ego). You might not be a fast runner. Not only does your opponent can catch up, but now he can attack you from the rear. You might have no place to run (opponent in between exit and you). You might have a moral duty to certain people that rely on you for protection (can't leave your child in their stroller while you run away). We do a game where you have to continue even though you think you are dead. I only call time at 30 stabs. Most people give up after only one or two. Sure you might die... but you might not. If you die you may buy other people some time. Much rather die fighting than die the moment you give up on life. Maybe others may live because of it. Maybe it is your job to fight when needed (police, military, LEO, security). Also nothing wrong with fleeing in certain contexts. But don't let people tell you that running away is always the best defence. Only a sith deals in absolutes. Fighting is complex and personal.
TLDR: Old school masters knew what they were talking about.
I don’t know if this has already been said, but I think for like…2 million subscribers Skall should take a trip to Australia and spar with Shad, that is something I would absolutely love to see
I SECOND THAT!!!
falchion vs stick?
Really interesting video with great pacing in the explanations and showing of the techniques. 10/10
What i was taught was "if you're up against someone with a knife, expect to get stabbed or cut, and if you come up against someone with a gun, expect to get shot" and the mentality of my sensei was not thinking of it like you're gonna fail, moreso that you're gonna get hurt and the techniques i learned were to either lessen the damage against attackers with weapons or defend myself against those without them.
I did Eskrima Combat since the HEMA schools closed where I was from (at least with presential instructors) and, from the techniques I still remember, we do something similar to 6:45, but we block and then control the elbow, but we take a step forward to the outside, making the arm close and force it back, so the opponent as to follow and fall, then control the arm, disarm, and the rest what you want
Also, my instructor teached us we is this kind of techiniques as more of a last resort, because unnarmed against knife can be pretty horrible and almost impossible to leave without injury, we practiced mainly to have a repertoire of techniques and movements so we can have some degree of control and adaptability, even if techniques don't go as the book
I may have written some things wrongly (not english speaker), so if you find something not easy to understand, i'll try to explain myself better
EDIT: Please check my other comment LOL
11:55 we would step away as we block the attack, making it a more fluent movement, I could ask my instructor if you want, because I think we have the same technique
14:30 we are teached that getting a hold "instantly" is really difficult as you said so we can't relay on that, usually block and then control, because blocking is more important as you don't get killed LOL using the clothes to grip is useful depending what you are trying to do (not all clothing will react exactly the same)
I will clarify I'm not consider myself an expert and I may explaining myself poorly
LOL, I was writing as I was seeing and noticed you also said a repertoire
I do an asian martial art (like kung fu but not kung fu), and i recognise almost everything.
The human body works the same everywhere.
most important info in this great video: If someone shows you a technique that seems effortless and doesn't explain, run! Yes, especially when it's unarmed defense against an armed attacker, but if it looks too easy to be true, it is
Fall not for the scam of the scammer, for he is a scammer, and doth scam.
I think what you said about grabbing the clothes makes sense, also a lot of these things where you lean on the blade to wrench it free wouldn’t work if you were bare skinned (not as well anyway) so I think this microcosm of the macrocosm assumes you and your opponent have some sort of light armor on by the very least. I still think it’s a good toolbox against a variety of weapons and even against guys with fists, those arm breaks in an altercation would be savage period. I think good wrestlers would find a lot of this stuff to be common sense/instincts. The manuscript you showed teaches an under pattern correspondent to chess, your opponent’s latest move is their newest weakness.
Remember what he says about daggers being mostly not that sharp unlike knives today. Although, getting a bad cut on your hand beats getting stabbed to death
Some things to keep in mind:
- Proactive action will ALWAYS* defeat reaction. Typical reflexes lag about 0.12 to 0.18 seconds behind, which is roughly how long it takes for someone with a dagger to have already stabbed you. By the time you see the dagger move, you are already stabbed. You have to predict, then move in real time with the attacker rather than reacting to them. They will not be able to react to your movements either. Both of you are, for at least 0.12 seconds, effectively blind to what the other is doing. Whatever you do as "the defender" should work if the knife attacker is going for a feint, so that they walk right into you whether they commit or not. This is where good defense training comes in - you have to know the mechanics, so that you choose the right defense technique that can work either way. Otherwise you get scenarios that play out with you getting stabbed.
- The statistics on dagger defense techniques (modern ones) reflect a harsh reality. Even a good, sound technique will only work 8-10% of the time. Almost all of the remaining 90-92% is the defender getting stabbed. Knife beats no knife; full stop. What good knife defense actually gets you is that 8-10% chance to beat a knife - without good defense, you lose that exchange 100% of the time. You aren't trying to be better than a knife. You are trying to have at least a chance.
- You have less effective threat range AND a much smaller threat, unarmed against a dagger. So it is unreasonable to expect a favorable outcome. The best you can do is neutralize the dagger's advantages. Attacking first by moving forward neutralizes the threat range advantage - you can now both hurt each other. You can match the dagger's threat level only in certain ways - this is why a lot of techniques are getting the dagger, breaking the arm at the elbow, tossing someone on their head, striking violently to the neck, etc etc. Only certain attacks are going to have enough violence in them to match the dagger reasonably.
I love this video. Hope to see more things like this, personally. Take that decisiveness into your sword vs spear fighting, Skall. It will serve you well to think of such fights the same way you think of hands vs dagger.
Not enough ki? I'm leaning toward them not having enough butt. Gotta get caked up for Anime self defence.
Ngl. I fell asleep in the middle of a Skall binge. Woke up an hour later right at the end with Skall telling me to fuck off. You have no idea how confused I was lmao
3:27 - The dagger on the right has nuts for a crossguard.
That is literally called a bollock dagger, a type that was popular for several centuries.
Bollocks daggers, they were extremely popular, there's a video by Tod from Tod's Workshop on them
Fun to watch, especially how badly it went after he actually started trying 😆
Next best thing to try out: Duel-wielding shields against a knife attacker?
Ultimately it’s about making the best out of a bad situation.
@@Specter_1125 Completely agree, in the situation you have no other choice being trained in this will be a lifesaver.
Was just poking at Skall using unconventional weapons:) But damn it's fun to watch him trying 'em out!
For the technique at 5:42ish. I recommend not just pushing on the point of the elbow, but also rotating the arm clockwise, the same way you rotate it counter clockwise in the following technique. If the elbow is bent it works somewhat better but it can be done on a straight arm too. And gripping the inside side of the elbow is better for this than the outside or point.
i think a big problem with most of these techniques is that training them with a non compliant partner is very hard if you dont want to seriously hurt them.
that is because most of them end in somehow breaking the arm and doing them at full speed its really easy to overshoot your target of *just* disarming them. especially if they resisted and you tension built up in a move and suddenly breaks away
if you want to keep your sparring partner " that is NOT good"
This might be the best I`ve seen regarding to defense against knives.
I always like watching legit knife defence videos. Very enjoyable watching one based on the medieval manuscripts.
The overall consensus is to run away, or,
Dodge, strike the face quick and then run away.
Be aware of your surroundings and never let sketchy dude in stabbing distance.
Or, practice crazy weird tia chi forearm blocking for years and years, and then still try to run away because it doesn't work very well.
Grabbing either the thumb or the palm of the hand near the pinky is mandatory however you are absolutely correct merely grabbing the clothing to rinse his elbow around to put pressure on either the elbow or the shoulder is quite effective. Although you only want to be able to apply Leverage with the hand you must absolutely have a good grip. Once you have one hand on his wrist and hand and the other gripping a portion of his clothing at or slightly beyond the elbow. It is the tentative man that turns his back on his enemy whom receives the greatest rewards. Just remember when going into a pentative stance you want him to fall on his elbow as that would point the dagger away from you if he started with an overhand swing and hug his elbow and let him fall on his face if he started with an underhand swing. Hi there Direction you're not finished until he is faced down and you are face up holding his arm tightly to your chest elbow at 90°.
I successfully pulled off the first technique in real life once. A woman ran at me with a large butcher knife. I got the knife away from her. I was lucky my muscle memory took over from years of martial arts training.
I hope you broke something to teach her a lesson.
2 main rules I was thought against a knife attack.
1. Run B... RUN!!! (If he only wants something give it up, if that person only wants to hurt you focus on escaping you don´t need to put your life at risk)
2. If you can´t run and you must deal with the knife always prepare to get CUT! especially mentally also focus on keeping the knife away from any vital points.
Anyway, love the motions skall showed in the vid!
The loser in a knife fight dies on the scene. The winner in a knife fight dies in the hospital.
A more modern interpretation of the move at 5:35 would be to hook the elbow with your left arm instead of just pressing against it with your hand.
its called a russian 2-on-1 and by hooking the arm, you bring your opponent's elbow against your chest. Then you can bend your body forward and extend the arm using the weight of your entire upper torso instead of just your arm. Since you're closer to the opponent, it also makes it far easier to stop him from turning into you.
Been training in shodokan (Tomiki to some) aikido and interesting to see how similar the techniques are! We do sparring with foam knives (straight thrusts only, no ice pick grip). The most I’ve learnt from it is get off the line of the attack, get a two on one, and try and throw them, which seems to be exactly what the manuscripts are trying to teach. Nothing new under the sun I guess.
i think skall actually mentioned something similar to this in a recent video, about how all effective martial arts will have moves that someone training with different techniques will be able to recognize. there’s only so many ways that someone can move their body efficiently after all.
@@pinkofastora I think that was Bruce Lee's point as well to an extent. He seemed to learn new combat arts and inject what worked best in his mind.
I love these videos with the thunder wizard, they've all been really good :)
The "more brutal" version of the block and throw (and blow to the throat) is right out of the Northern Shaolin Praying Mantis Kung-Fu style I started learning back in the 70's. Very effective.
If you think any of those styles are effective in combat situations then you are deluded
@@TentaclePentacle it can be effective
@@joaoguilherme9671 it can be effective. In a dance
i love this anual Halloween themed videos, every video of yours is great but the Halloween ones hit different
As someone who's practiced martial arts for almost 10 years now, mainly taekwondo, I found this video very interesting. The technique at 10:20 looks very similar to something I would do in real life, but it would end with me lifting their arm, placing their elbow on my shoulder so I can break their arm before stepping back and throwing them over that same arm. These techniques definitely have some merit to them but if someone attacked me with a knife then I'm probably going to just run if I can, if not then I'd so something that I was trained to do. Personally I think that's the biggest problem with modern self defense is that people watch a bunch of videos and then think that they're a 5th dan black belt over night. If you want to learn how to defend yourself then please for the love of god get an instructor. You can not learn how to properly fight and defend yourself by yourself. You need input from someone who knows what they're talking about so that way they can point out what you're doing wrong. I'd highy recommend joining your local dojo, unless they're one of those that try to sell that you can take someone down by pinching a nerve. My point is don't think that just because you watched this video that you're an expert. If someone pulls a knife or any kind of weapon, RUN! Defenses against weapons are just a last resort meaning they are only to be used if you can't get away. Don't go thinking that running from someone who has a weapon is cowardly because to be blunt fighting someone who's armed is just plain stupid. Now if you're trying to defend someone from someone else then that's a different story, but you'd want to get out of that situation as soon as you could. Self defense is messy, chaotic and violent but the more you learn, the more you tip the scales in your favor.