I have two comments. First, it wasn't shown but given the load I'd keep the cable between any insulation and the drywall to allow heat to more easily dissipate through the drywall. Second, many garages seem to collect enough junk over the years to keep a vehicle from being parked inside. So, a brief discussion of charger location options may have been helpful to viewers. One option worth a consideration for some people is to locate the charger close to the garage door so that a vehicle can be charged either inside or outside the garage.
Not really necessary since the ampacity is 115A even when installed in conduit or a cable assembly, and the max load is 80A. Having it run right up against the drywall may subject it to damage from drywall anchors. Note that the free air ampacity is 165A, so this is already derated for installation in enclosed areas.
@@barryomahony4983 I was thinking more about just leaving the insulation out on one side of the cable. And that would be partly from the science standpoint of higher temperatures raising the resistance of the copper and wasting more energy. Even if the cable insulation can handle a high temperature, I'd rather such a high load cable run cooler if it was my house - at least until a few decades pass and we see how EV circuits hold up over time. I can see some homes having 3-5 EVs in a decade or two, with charging circuits in use with little rest. If the cable does run hot then some of the heat will conduct along the wire into the charging unit - whose circuit board may be a bit more delicate.
@@JasonEDragon So true about the garage acquiring so much junk,you cant even park a car in there ,m a 15 year auto mechanic,started working on cars in garage ,now I got 15 years worth of tools and knowledge in the garage ,no cars,you were so right and I had to acknowledge that 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😮
Joel, great work as usual. What I do in our parts (Connecticut) is when the EVSE is for runs longer than about 25 feet, I run aluminum MC cable (1/3 for 100A, for instance) to a disconnect next to the EVSE location, and then run copper between the disco and the equipment itself.
question on disconnects, isn't the NEC that anything over 60A has to have disconnects to the EVSE? It is, I'm just not seeing that people are installing it like that. Is there an exception that im not aware of? -- that AL to CU at the disconnect is a great idea to save on the price of CU right now.
Great video. For the F150 owner, inside the Ford Pass app on the "Home" tab, and only when the vehicle is charging, toward the bottom is a "charging"notification and there is a "details" button you can click. Clicking that will show you the charge rate. At home on our 32amp, we get around 6-7 kW.
Side note for dust. While working in a Children's Hospital installing a receptacle in a hallway and nearest door to a patient room was over 15' away the safety department wanted me to install a plastic wall with a zipper walk thru doorway and a HEPA filter machine connected to it to cut out a hole in 5/8" Sheetrock. Told them that I would dampen the sheetrock and take several minutes to slowly score then cut thru sheetrock using a heavy ultily knife with a new blade. Taped paper a few inches below hole to collect any dust but none collected. Saved over two hours time. Always wiped sheetrock.opening with disinfectant wipes to pick up dust particles before pulling in wire. They had several $14,000 portable roll around work enclosures that had 2' by 4' extendable walls that went up to drop ceiling title. Had a HEPA filter on it and was hot to work in.
Just a heads up - I noticed a large amount of heat generation on the breaker stabs of my 100A breaker of 160+ degrees. All copper wires, even the house drop. Short run, less than 20 feet of wire, very similar to this video. I turned down the charger to 60 amps on the pot dial in the charger and reduced that temperature to something I was comfortable with. I don't need the difference in speed with my lifestyle so I play it safer on this. All wire is temperature rated appropriately, all gauges meet/exceed spec, and the terminals were all torqued to spec using a torque wrench. I even reseated the breaker twice to ensure the breaker was grabbing the buss bar appropriately. Keep an eye out on this one.
Remember the level 2 on board charger is in the car. You can use a 240 outlet or wall CONNECTOR not charger to allow charging through your level 2 on board charger. I believe FORD lightning offers 11 and 19 kw on board chargers for level 2. Charging speeds at home, level 2, determined by house amp circuit 240 v 30, 40, 50, 60, 100 amp((20% safety), size of on board charger(3-19 kw), and car electronics. I have a 100 amp circuit(72 amp actually). My 7 kw on board charger on one vehicle chargers at 35 mph. Another vehicle with 11 kw on board charger 45 miles per hour. Another vehicle eith 19kw on board charger charges 52 miles per hours all on same 100 amp circuit. Level 3 DC fast chargers, Tesla calls superchargers, are 480 volts with amps ranging from 50 kw to 350 kw. MOST PUBLIC chargers sadly slow level 2. MOST PUBLIC DC fast chargers 50 kw rare 100 kw super rare 350 kw which non Tesla manufacturers quote charge speeds. ALL TESLA superchargers are level 3 120-250kw.(500-1200 miles per hour) we need more level 3 not level 2 to speed EV adaption. Many lightnings and Rivian’s for sale cuz slow non Tesla chargers. Teslas MSRP helps build superchargers. Trucks have large batteries which need faster chsrger. Lightning long range 130 kwh, Hummer EV 250 kwh batteries. Most car EV 60-100 kwh battery.
A better breaker location choice would be closer to the panel feed. I have walked by panels buzzing due to high current loads located further down the panel buss. You could have easily done this before trimming the extra length of the wires. Just move that one breaker at top left.
Another thing to consider when doing outdoor installations is sunlight exposure. It's best to install the charger/EVSE in a shaded area. Most of the EVSE's housings are made out of plastic, and even the best plastics will eventually breakdown from UV light exposure.
If Chad wants to use his Lightning as a generator, you can’t use a simple interlock on that sub panel. The lightning 240 V outlet utilizes bonded neutral, and GFCI protection, and therefore it needs a neutral switching transfer switch to ensure that neutral is not grounded at the truck and in the panel. Without a neutral switching transfer switch, he’ll blow the circuit on his truck every time he tries to use it.
The laser cutting trick only works with dark surfaces because of lower reflectivity. Kidding aside, I would consider mounting that charge panel at a height that would make it ADA Compliant (48”) or at least informing the owner of that option. It could be a selling point for the home in the future.
Great video and very professional install - really enjoyed it! I have recently installed the same Ford Charger Pro hoping to squeeze out those advertised 80A and get a charge rate of 19.2kWt/hr but I never get more than 48A and 10.5kWt/hr. Which is not bad compared to 7kWt/hr max I was getting from the 240V electric dryer socket. The installation is done by a professional licensed electrician, they used the recommended wire gauges, the 100A breaker and even installed a manual disconnect required by local code if the power supplied is over 60A. I checked twice the Maximum Current Setting Switch (which is a simple dial) inside the charger and it is set to position 7 (which is factory default and represents the max output of 80A). The Ford Charger App is pretty rudimentary in the sense of data and settings but I was able to use the "slider" to play with different amperage settings and it works just fine when you go from 48A and down: it immediately changes the current accordingly and the rate of charge BUT anything above 48A doesn't make any changes. It looks like that 48A is hardwired somewhere and I don't know why. Contacted Ford Support; they've remotely connected to my truck and confirmed everything is normal and it is up to the charging system in the truck to intelligently decide what current it can accept based on the environmental conditions and the battery state and temperature. So I'm completely lost and would appreciate if someone with the knowledge or a similar problem can kindly share their findings. My truck is 2024 Lariat with extended battery pack.
Interesting! We love us a good electrical puzzle: Is the disconnect rated for 100amps? Is the charger a long way from the panel? Maybe voltage drop? What wire size did they use? (I know you said it was right...but was it?)
@@ElectricProAcademy The solution is actually simpler: All 2024s come with a single onboard charger (except as an option for fleet only) so the max they can charge is 48A. I wish Ford explicitly specified this in the windshield sticker for my F-150.
Real curious about how the small panel will become critical load but the 150 charger is installed in the larger panel?? How will power be switched using a interlock? Back feed 150 will go to large panel. How does it get to the smaller panel? You still have to switch the utility power? Can’t wait for the next video.
I’m not 100% certain but I believe that the home backup power is a separate inverter box that connects to the charging system that he installed in this video. the inverter would have a separate breaker (with generator interlock bracket) in the 150amp “critical loads” panel.
So the power TO the truck FROM the charger will come from the main panel. In a power FROM the truck will come from the twist lock ON the truck TO the smaller panel. On the Lightnings and Ford Powerboost trucks there is a 240v twist lock connection (L14-30r) that will "extention cord" to the port feeding the smaller panel. There is a disconnect on the small panel that only allows power to come into it one way that way you can't back feed the big panel and in turn that guy on the power pole. And when the power does come back you can't back feed the truck. I'm sure back feeding the truck is not good for the it, although not 100% sure.
OK i take my statement partially back lol. Now I have the same question?? I did not know that on the lightings the charger is bidirectional. What I said holds true to a Ford Powerboost though.
I believe there is a 0-9 dial that you can set for different amp ratings. 80amp being the max. I believe you can run #6 and set it as a 50amp charge. It may take a little longer than 80amp but if you have a long distance to run and you are not fortunate to be able to run it next to your panel, this could help in cost.
I admit that I have not watched this video yet, but what an incredible about of power! My whole house is only 100 amps and we had one place available for an 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet. I hope that this is part of their amazing two way charge/battery backup system, like using several Tesla Powerwalls to equal the massive power held in the Lightnings largest battery pack? It's to watch and learn from the experts.
@@drewthompson7457 They make load sharing chargers, like all the Tesla chargers as well as Wallbox and I think Juicebox. The chargers are networked together and you can set the maximum charge total in the app. In this case, you could set it to say 50 amps total for both chargers. If 2 vehicles show up depleted, they'll both charge at 25 amps. If 1 vehicle finishes first, then it'll drop to say 0 amps and the other would get the full 50 amps. It'll apportions those amps anywhere in between to total 50.
@@drewthompson7457 If you have a Lightning and a Hummer, you better pay to get your home breaker updated to 200A or 400A. Honestly, it should be 200A already. I'm surprised there are still homes out there with only 100A. Most EV's are fine with say 25 amps of charging overnight. If you a quick charge on 25amps, you'll get about 15-20 miles of range per hour for most cars.
@@GROGU123 : I have read that in my area, 200 amp services are now a minimum allowed for new construction. But yes, a 400 or 600 amp service may be the way to go. As well as looking forward to outages and expensive power. After all, the government will need road taxes on these heavy vehicles wearing out the roads more.
I drive 1999 GMC suburban, even here I got 120v, obviously aftermarket, it totally makes sense to have it, i harge my laptop, drone, power tool batteries and powering things when camping.
I would have installed chauking where cable entered charger to keep bugs out. ( fire stop even safer ). Was taught to never ring the insulation with a knife to strip jacket. Always used the pencil sharpener method. Saw way too many conductors that got knicked with a knife cutting a circle around jacket. If you knick fine strand conductors some strands will break off first time handling it.
try out the makita cordless drywall saw. game changer. blade is adjustable to drywall thickness and has dust port for vacuum. zero dust and no worry about cutting wires or pipe behind wall
LOVE this video! Thanks so much for making this! Very well done. I've looked online EVERYWHERE for this #3 CU cabling. All I can find is 3-3-3-5 SER service entrance cable. The specs seem to match. Is this the right stuff?
All of the major electrical supply houses would have #3 CU: All Phase, CED, Kirby Risk, City Electric Supply, Allied Electrical. If that 3-3-3-5 is copper then it should be good to go, though I've never heard of size 5 for ground.
I have a quick question regarding 60C vs. 75C standard. My electrical inspector told me all residential wiring must adhere to the 60C standard regardless of wire type to meet code. Since this is wiring in a residence wouldn't it need 1 conductor to pass code? I get that this meets the 75C standard.
Hey bro can I use nm cable for this application. Look 334.80 Ampacity. The ampacity of Types I cable shall be determined in accordance allowable ampacity shall not exceed that rated conductor. The 90°C (194°F) rating s be used for ampacity adjustment and corr provided the final calculated ampacity does a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor. The amp NMC, and NMS cable installed in cable t mined in accordance with 392.80 (A).
I'm thinking #3 under 300.4(G) which is met by the presence of the outer insulation and cable clamp... Where raceways contain 4 AWG or larger insulated circuit conductors, and these conductors enter a cabinet, a box, an enclosure, or a raceway, the conductors shall be protected in accordance with any of the following: (3) Separation from the fitting or raceway using an identified insulating material that is securely fastened in place
Hey Joel, just a learning question, the Ford Pro Charger install wire diagram on page 2 mentions a safety switch for any amperage over 60A. I’m just wondering what is this safety switch and why would it be mentioned? Not sure if code or just a suggestion. Thank you
Important note. If EV charger circuit is on a standard GFCI or AFCI circuit breaker you can not back feed power from an EV vehicle into your house. Recently read that on either another great site IAEI or Mike Holt web site. Maybe someday they will come out with GFCI & AFCI two pole circuit breakers that will allow it. Know at present time that GFCI protection is only needed on 208 & 240 volt circuits 60 amps and under. Depending on code cycle might not need GFCI protection on EV hard wired chargers. If I had sn average sized EV think I rather go with a slower home charger. Read that some people believe battery life is reduced when batteries are charged at consistent high charhging rates. Also EV batteries will not get as hot if only charged with say a 240 volt 48 amp charger rather then a 80 amp charger.
For the technically minded we use system that is approximately 120 volt rms ac, this means that the peak voltage is about 170 peak. rms represents the same amount of power you could get from 120 volts dc. (the peak is too short to be useful) In single phase systems, in America, we use a center tap transformer to provide access to dual voltages 120 & 240 rms. The 240 volt circuits are generally for large heating devices: cooking , drying, heatpumps and the like, but now, charging of car batteries.
Excellent explanation, but I'd also like to clear up a misconception about how other countries outside the US get their 240V. Someone once said that we basically had the same system as the US but with no neutral (especially because they saw we had red and black as our current carrying conductors in building wiring (here in Australia anyway) That's not correct. Generally each street has 3 phase 240/415 running through it, so 3 phases and a neutral, 240 from each phase to neutral and 415 phase to phase. Each house has one of the phases and a neutral. Neutral and Earth are joined at the house fusebox, what we call a M.E.N system (multiple earthed neutral) Inside the building, for single phase wiring to regular lighting and outlets, red is Active (hot), black is Neutral and green/yellow is Earth (ground). 3 phase wiring is Red for L1, White for L2 and Blue for L3, Black for Neutral, and Green/Yellow for Earth as before. Some houses will have 3 phases available if they have a large HVAC system or is a large home with a lot of load to help balance the phases in the street. Some rural and regional areas use SWER primary / single split phase power to homes (same as the US 120/240 residential) however our voltages are 240/480. So we have two 240V legs to a centre tapped neutral, or 480 between legs. Generally we don't have any single phase 480V loads so the house loads are just split evenly between each leg and neutral.
That is not an equivalent to DC voltage. That represents the heat disappation in a resistant load. The max DC voltage from single phase Vp (120/sqrt 2) 174x.636 = 108vdc.
Just watched another video of a Ford Lightning owner who also had a mess dealing with Sunrun to get his home charger cable. He also waited weeks for his. Ford has really screwed this up. RRRREALLY, screwed this up having Sunrun ship these home chargers. Imagine having a new vehicle, sitting in your garage, and you can't drive it, for weeks. Nice going Ford. I'll pass. Edit; The other fellow ALSO had major headaches with the craptastic Ford Charging app. LOL. Wow Ford. You're not doing this well at all. LOLOLOLOL. BTW, GREAT video. VERY informative. I learned a lot today.
Hey Joel, I like your content. Is that a video cam recorder you're wearing attached to the body harness? If yes, can you provide a link where you purchased it?
I'd love to hear more about color matching the red/black branch wires to the service ones. My service wires aren't colored at all. How would I do this? :)
@@ElectricProAcademy thank you. And, no. I understand how the buses are arranged. What intrigues me, in fact I thought you were joking! ... . is 1) why do the phases need to be consistent? What if L1 in one subpanel is the opposite of another subpanel? And even more, why do they have actual identities? In the Ford truck video you matched the colors of wires in a branch circuit to the wires in the service entrance. Even if there is a reason to stay consistent between all of your panels why would it matter once you get out to a single branch circuit how the wire colors map to the service entrance?
Vivian's 120 volt outlets are only 15 amps, while Ford's are 20 amps and that includes inside of the cabin and I'd guessing the frunk as well. Ford has really done their homework. I hope that Tesla is watching carefully because if they don't give 20 amps as well, it's because they cost cut everything to death. If you can save a penny here and there or a gram here or there, Tesla will do it. They are relying on their vision systems to do what sensors used to do. They hope that their software can save all of their problems. I own a 4-1/2 year old Tesla Model 3 and for the most part the software improvements have been absolutely game changing.
@@NextGenEvs no, it is not allowed, the 90° is for derating, you need to consider so many things, is a very long explanation, but basically you will never just use the 90° column to choose a wire. Easy example is that you are only allowed to use the 60° column for 14,12 and 10 AWG.
The Gen2 Tesla Wall connector can be installed on a 100amp breaker for 80amp continuous current. However, they cheapened up the Gen3. Same thing with the original portable charging cable - was rated for higher current, than the current one.
No, Romex has an outer jacket and then inner insulation for each conductor. THHN would just be a single conductor, with insulation, which would then be protected and supported by conduit. The ratings of the insulation between the two are generally different in terms of water and heat exposure.
I'll answer for Joel - there is a customer meter number printed on the meter, which the customer may have requested be kept private for this public video.
When adding a 100 amp breaker to supply a charger circuit that is 50% of a standard 200 amp panel. At what point are you overloading the capacity of the panel?
That would take a load analysis of that 200A panel (adding up loads, applying proper NEC diversity factors, etc) - but great question. Also recall in this specific home, there are actually 300A of breakers (outside from the 320A meter there is a 200A feeder breaker and a 100A feeder breaker), so the added charge point is less than 50% of the entire house - but would definitely be worth looking into on just a 200A house.
Is that 3-3-3-5 SER? The reason I ask is because in my area SER installed in insulation is required to be derated to 60c, which would be 85A. The derating applies regardless of the insulation rating. That code is enforced for feeders and branch circuits alike. (In my area anyways) Side note - The inspectors around here read code as “installed in insulation” and apply it to any insulation at all. Because of this, most (if not all) new service work has conduit from the meter base to disconnect, as well as from the disconnect to the panel.
It needs to be derated based on what the conductors are connected to. These days that's usually 75c, which still gives an ampacity of 100A. I suppose there could still be old breakers with 60c ratings, but best not to use them in an installation like this.
The charger alone is not enough for Ford power backup. The install requires an inverter as well. DC comes from the truck through the charger then to the inverter via a separate set of wires. And to use the inverter you would need an ATS probably some load management or shedding as well.
@@SteveStowell not out of the charge port for the automatic backup. This is the reason the connector for the Ford charger uses the DC pins of the CCS connector. The charger provides AC to charge the truck and gets DC to send to a separate inverter wired to provide emergency backup power.
I wanted to ask you something I have a customer that I have to put two of this one we thought at first the first one got damaged because of the faulty installation but then we installed a second one and we kept having problems. What happens is that the cable connecting to the car is getting hot all the time and apparently is making the charger interrupt the charge because of heating. Is this a problem that your customer is also having? I didn't think it thru until I saw a gauge inside that allows the charger to run up to 70 amps which is fine for what we have installed in the breaker box, the problem is that if you check your video they use a number 6 going into the car. My understanding is that the charger is not an inverter and is not sending DC to the car but the car is actually pulling AC up to 70. Amp on a 6 AWG wire. My client just opted to get another charger when this happens but I think it's rather stupid having this high-tech car with allegedly high-tech charger and then for that to work that way. I hope you read my comment and if anyone else has anything of the sort happening to you please let me know
I wonderef even with a 200 amp sevice you maybe very close to capacity especially if you had to charge at peak electric times . Having a subpanel added to his 200 amp sevice may reflect that he has many circuits . With this size charger i wonder when you will have to upgrade the 200 amp service ? Say if you had to add another charger or more for additional evs .
This is my thought as well. I'm looking at two of my properties needing upgrades from 100A panels, with an out building, and additional subpanels at one place. 400A service seems quite reasonable for many people who are looking at the same scenario with a garage, sub panels, multiple EVs, etc. -- Having that bidirectional charging capability at 80A continuous can be really useful but has to be planned for.
I heard you mention the ampacity at 90c, but since.most breakers are rated for 75c, don't you need to use that column in the ampacity charts since it's the lesser of the two?
I think the context was simply that the manufacturer specifies using 90C rated conductors for installation with this charger; you're right that the overall capacity of the circuit will necessarily always be limited to 75C column ampacity, but in this case the manufacturer is simply specifying 90C conductors must be used.
To feed power from EV to house in an outage, wouldn't it require a transfer switch of some kind so the grid isn't back fed? Does the other part of Fords back-up system include one?
a generator interlock (which he mentioned) is another way of ensuring you don't backfeed the lines on the pole. It allows you to determine what loads in the main panel you want to energize using the breakers you already have without having to re-run important loads to another sub-panel.
@@MatthewLiegey it's required for feeding a house especially on a new install....If anything anyone putting in these should be required to have one before it would let it feed to the house.
Is there an exterior provision to accept conduit ? The Tesla super chargers have the ability to run conduit on the wall and come into the charger. Awesome video btw.
Lets be honest, he's not hauling anything in that truck bed, plus that new house isnt needing projects. Having worked in construction, you can tell this homeowner wouldn't settle for anything other than done correctly and to completion. But its a nice house and setup.
Sunrun is third party for fords home integration backup system. If you review these backup systems, there have been many problems. For $4000 plus installation costs that shouldn't be.
Since my house is wired for only 200 amps, I've wondered if the local utilities would wire a new completely separate new service to an existing house? Say, into the garage. Can you imagine a 2 car family, both being EVs? Also, I wonder about the safety of the 120 volt truck outlets, not being grounded. But since I'm not buying an EV, (yet), I have time to find the answers.
As far as I know, Canada/USA electric codes only allow one service per dwelling unit, however they have done a video where a separate service and meter was installed for EV charging. They did not install the EV charging equipment at that time, so I do not know if the charging equipment was to be located indoors our outdoors. If I understood correctly the separate meter for the EV charging was to enable the utility charging a different rate for EV charging supply. It should be noted that the job had 3 service installed, a total of 1,000 Amps from what I gather the building had to separate dwelling units.
@@ronaldkovacs7080 the key stipulation may be "dwelling unit" there. In rural areas of USA there are many barns, pole barns, workshops, etc that are detached and not for living in. People either run off the main panel or pay for another meter, monthly bill, etc at the 2nd utility drop. Those monthly fees add up over 10-20 years.
Never saw any copper SER in my 50 years as a sparky. 40 years ago I called a local supply house for price on 200 amp copper SEU service cable. They only stocked it at a branch down the shore. Was a dollar an inch. When I called homeowner to tell him that a copper 200 amp setvice would cost $300 more then if I went with Aluminum setvice cable he called me a F ***ing thieve so I hung up on him. General contractor tried to tell me that I had to cut the price by $150. Told him buy the copper service cable and I would cut price by $300. He must have called 6 supply jouses and could not believe the high price. Customer called me back s week later telling me to do his copper service. Told him that I would never perform work for anybody that curses me out & calls me a thieve. You would think that some EV chargers would be made with lugs that accept aluminum wire.
A CAT-2, Panel "SURGE PROTECTOR" should be added to stay with current NEC 2020 Electrical code, so much AFCI, has been added I notice those panels didn't have any ?
They have a higher temperature rating, which allows them to be smaller for the same amount of current. They are smaller but that's okay because of the temperature rating.
If a homeowner owned two or more EV'S ( teenage kids and such ) you would probably have be to install a new very expensive 400 amp service with the outdoor service disconnect. Can remember when me & my brother were in high school & our parents owned two cars. Both cars were away from the house from 6 & 7 AM until after 10 PM every weekday night because me & my brother took h parents car to work when on they got hone. Weekends forget about trying to charge an EV. We would either be working til after 1 AM or out with buddies. Saw a u tube vidio where a guy compared two new top of the line Ford pickup trucks on a 20 degree day pulling a fair sized loaded trailer . One was an EV other a conventional ICE truck. With the EV using the heater the big hit only around 49% of normal range. Lazy EV charging companies must spend $5 to install a 240 to low voltage transformer for control circuit to save homeowners at least $35 on the addition ( white grounded conductor ). Same with electric dryer manufacturers. The NEC should have not thier prima Donna heads out of their asses 75 years ago and made dryer companies use 240 volt drum motors and a 100 VA transformer to supply power to drum light & control circuit. Now with an LED drum light could get by with a 40 VA transformer and only need 10/2 copper and cheaper 3 verses a4 wire receptacle. Doesn't take a scientific calculator to figure out that's its much cheaper to have lazy cheap skate manufacturers never require a white grounded conductor on any 208 or 240 volt appliances.
Nice video, love the editing and the content and presentation. I also learn something new with everyone of your videos. (BTW I am a DIYer). I have a question on cover plate screws. Over time as I add/change circuits, the thin receivers for the blunt plate screws have STRIPPED out (too thin IMHO). My solution has been to re-tap with next larger screw, but I have even stripped that out as well, and had to re-tap once more with the next larger. ARGH!. What is a good solution to fix that better? Nut-Serts? thanks
If you’re talking about your panel cover look at speed nuts, U type fastners. Available at Lowes and most Automotive stores. It will give you back some threads.
The little blue message box said the nominal charge capacity at 80 amps is 17Kw’s. Math says it should be about 19.2Kw’s do you know what up with this discrepancy? (Power = Energy * Current or 240volts * 80amps) I own the same Ford truck and charger, and limit my charger to 48 amps because I share my 100 amp breaker with two heat pump air conditioning systems. I average pretty close to the math predicted wattage of 11.5Kw’s.
I was taught LONG ago that sharing something as small as a 15A breaker was a no-no......ONE screw.....ONE conductor under it. There's code rules....and then there's "common sense"...I sure wouldn't be doing it on a 100A breaker. It'd be interesting seeing an Infrared shot of your "2 wire-single" connection when it's drawing a load....I can practically guarantee it'll be "warmer" than it would be under a single connector. The FLIR training I took taught me how much MORE I needed to learn about electricity...equations are one thing....what goes on in the real world's another. Just an FYI....electricity is a "cruel" teacher when she proves someone wrong right in FRONT of you...not something you want to see or remember....ask me how I know.⚡⚡🤔
@@CannonFodder873 I mentioned in the comments that when I hooked my ford charger up following spec fully, the temps of the backstabs from the bussbar in my panel with no cover was over 160 degrees - uncomfortably high for me. I lowered the charger's pot setting to 60 amps for a more respectable heat load in the panel. I also made space above and below my breaker in the panel to give it some breathing room.
This shows exactly why today's city infrastructure can't accommodate EV (or two EVs) at every house. My house is only 100 amp. Also it shows the difficulties in employees taking company vehicles home.
The main panel I assume is rated at 200 amps. How are you not overloading the panel by installing a additional 100 amp load? Also #3 copper is rated for 85 amps. A CB is there to protect the cables not the equipment. The equipment should have internal protection. You have a mismatch between the cable and the CB.
#3 is rated at 100A at 75 degrees celsius, which is the correct temperature of this circuit. The customer will manage their circuit capacity from the app to prevent overloading the panel. They are aware of the situation and we have installed to their request.
I honestly believed you were an electrician. Then you talked about cleaning up after yourself. 😂
The thing I’m most impressed by is Chad’s completely taped, sanded and painted drywall in his garage.
A personable master electrician? Never thought I'd see it.
Relationships are imperative! We're honored you noticed a differentiator.
I have two comments. First, it wasn't shown but given the load I'd keep the cable between any insulation and the drywall to allow heat to more easily dissipate through the drywall. Second, many garages seem to collect enough junk over the years to keep a vehicle from being parked inside. So, a brief discussion of charger location options may have been helpful to viewers. One option worth a consideration for some people is to locate the charger close to the garage door so that a vehicle can be charged either inside or outside the garage.
Not really necessary since the ampacity is 115A even when installed in conduit or a cable assembly, and the max load is 80A. Having it run right up against the drywall may subject it to damage from drywall anchors. Note that the free air ampacity is 165A, so this is already derated for installation in enclosed areas.
@@barryomahony4983 I was thinking more about just leaving the insulation out on one side of the cable. And that would be partly from the science standpoint of higher temperatures raising the resistance of the copper and wasting more energy. Even if the cable insulation can handle a high temperature, I'd rather such a high load cable run cooler if it was my house - at least until a few decades pass and we see how EV circuits hold up over time. I can see some homes having 3-5 EVs in a decade or two, with charging circuits in use with little rest. If the cable does run hot then some of the heat will conduct along the wire into the charging unit - whose circuit board may be a bit more delicate.
@@JasonEDragon
So true about the garage acquiring so much junk,you cant even park a car in there ,m a 15 year auto mechanic,started working on cars in garage ,now I got 15 years worth of tools and knowledge in the garage ,no cars,you were so right and I had to acknowledge that 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😮
The cable you need to wire it is 10-13 dollars a foot so running it farther like that could end up costing you another grand.
That was a good tip pre-mounting the cable clamp to the wire first to get it up and into the cabinet.
Joel, great work as usual.
What I do in our parts (Connecticut) is when the EVSE is for runs longer than about 25 feet, I run aluminum MC cable (1/3 for 100A, for instance) to a disconnect next to the EVSE location, and then run copper between the disco and the equipment itself.
question on disconnects, isn't the NEC that anything over 60A has to have disconnects to the EVSE? It is, I'm just not seeing that people are installing it like that. Is there an exception that im not aware of? -- that AL to CU at the disconnect is a great idea to save on the price of CU right now.
@@ullrsdreamI was wondering that too. From reading it seems like it would apply here
Breaker is the mean of disconnect. As long it is less than 50ft and within sigh.
Great video. For the F150 owner, inside the Ford Pass app on the "Home" tab, and only when the vehicle is charging, toward the bottom is a "charging"notification and there is a "details" button you can click. Clicking that will show you the charge rate. At home on our 32amp, we get around 6-7 kW.
Side note for dust. While working in a Children's Hospital installing a receptacle in a hallway and nearest door to a patient room was over 15' away the safety department wanted me to install a plastic wall with a zipper walk thru doorway and a HEPA filter machine connected to it to cut out a hole in 5/8" Sheetrock. Told them that I would dampen the sheetrock and take several minutes to slowly score then cut thru sheetrock using a heavy ultily knife with a new blade. Taped paper a few inches below hole to collect any dust but none collected. Saved over two hours time. Always wiped sheetrock.opening with disinfectant wipes to pick up dust particles before pulling in wire. They had several $14,000 portable roll around work enclosures that had 2' by 4' extendable walls that went up to drop ceiling title. Had a HEPA filter on it and was hot to work in.
Just a heads up - I noticed a large amount of heat generation on the breaker stabs of my 100A breaker of 160+ degrees. All copper wires, even the house drop. Short run, less than 20 feet of wire, very similar to this video. I turned down the charger to 60 amps on the pot dial in the charger and reduced that temperature to something I was comfortable with. I don't need the difference in speed with my lifestyle so I play it safer on this. All wire is temperature rated appropriately, all gauges meet/exceed spec, and the terminals were all torqued to spec using a torque wrench. I even reseated the breaker twice to ensure the breaker was grabbing the buss bar appropriately. Keep an eye out on this one.
Hey I watch Sandy all the time he is by far one of my favorites
Spot-on installation. We always install SPDs and PEN fault detection - just to ensure earths don't fall off.
Remember the level 2 on board charger is in the car. You can use a 240 outlet or wall CONNECTOR not charger to allow charging through your level 2 on board charger. I believe FORD lightning offers 11 and 19 kw on board chargers for level 2. Charging speeds at home, level 2, determined by house amp circuit 240 v 30, 40, 50, 60, 100 amp((20% safety), size of on board charger(3-19 kw), and car electronics. I have a 100 amp circuit(72 amp actually). My 7 kw on board charger on one vehicle chargers at 35 mph. Another vehicle with 11 kw on board charger 45 miles per hour. Another vehicle eith 19kw on board charger charges 52 miles per hours all on same 100 amp circuit. Level
3 DC fast chargers, Tesla calls superchargers, are 480 volts with amps ranging from 50 kw to 350 kw. MOST PUBLIC chargers sadly slow level 2. MOST PUBLIC DC fast chargers 50 kw rare 100 kw super rare 350 kw which non Tesla manufacturers quote charge speeds. ALL TESLA superchargers are level 3 120-250kw.(500-1200 miles per hour) we need more level 3 not level 2 to speed EV adaption. Many lightnings and Rivian’s for sale cuz slow non Tesla chargers. Teslas MSRP helps build superchargers. Trucks have large batteries which need faster chsrger. Lightning long range 130 kwh, Hummer EV 250 kwh batteries. Most car EV 60-100 kwh battery.
Nice installation video by a master electrician. Thank you!
A better breaker location choice would be closer to the panel feed.
I have walked by panels buzzing due to high current loads located further down the panel buss.
You could have easily done this before trimming the extra length of the wires. Just move that one breaker at top left.
YES! Highly recommended for SPDs also!
You take the drivers out of the bags and two sets of clubs fit perfect😎
Another thing to consider when doing outdoor installations is sunlight exposure. It's best to install the charger/EVSE in a shaded area. Most of the EVSE's housings are made out of plastic, and even the best plastics will eventually breakdown from UV light exposure.
Chargers themselves are relatively cheap.
@@AgentOffice Not really. You're still paying around $500+ for something that is mostly just an extension cord and some relays.
@@seanplace8192 yeah but the installation is 1k
@@seanplace8192 if idiots will pay it whose to say
@@AgentOffice its 30 mins - 1 hour tops to come out and pop a new one on the leads. how the f
If Chad wants to use his Lightning as a generator, you can’t use a simple interlock on that sub panel. The lightning 240 V outlet utilizes bonded neutral, and GFCI protection, and therefore it needs a neutral switching transfer switch to ensure that neutral is not grounded at the truck and in the panel.
Without a neutral switching transfer switch, he’ll blow the circuit on his truck every time he tries to use it.
The laser cutting trick only works with dark surfaces because of lower reflectivity.
Kidding aside, I would consider mounting that charge panel at a height that would make it ADA Compliant (48”) or at least informing the owner of that option. It could be a selling point for the home in the future.
Could use a CO2 laser (invisible light, so reflective color does not matter) !
Great video and very professional install - really enjoyed it! I have recently installed the same Ford Charger Pro hoping to squeeze out those advertised 80A and get a charge rate of 19.2kWt/hr but I never get more than 48A and 10.5kWt/hr. Which is not bad compared to 7kWt/hr max I was getting from the 240V electric dryer socket. The installation is done by a professional licensed electrician, they used the recommended wire gauges, the 100A breaker and even installed a manual disconnect required by local code if the power supplied is over 60A. I checked twice the Maximum Current Setting Switch (which is a simple dial) inside the charger and it is set to position 7 (which is factory default and represents the max output of 80A). The Ford Charger App is pretty rudimentary in the sense of data and settings but I was able to use the "slider" to play with different amperage settings and it works just fine when you go from 48A and down: it immediately changes the current accordingly and the rate of charge BUT anything above 48A doesn't make any changes. It looks like that 48A is hardwired somewhere and I don't know why. Contacted Ford Support; they've remotely connected to my truck and confirmed everything is normal and it is up to the charging system in the truck to intelligently decide what current it can accept based on the environmental conditions and the battery state and temperature. So I'm completely lost and would appreciate if someone with the knowledge or a similar problem can kindly share their findings. My truck is 2024 Lariat with extended battery pack.
Interesting! We love us a good electrical puzzle:
Is the disconnect rated for 100amps?
Is the charger a long way from the panel? Maybe voltage drop?
What wire size did they use? (I know you said it was right...but was it?)
@@ElectricProAcademy The solution is actually simpler: All 2024s come with a single onboard charger (except as an option for fleet only) so the max they can charge is 48A. I wish Ford explicitly specified this in the windshield sticker for my F-150.
Real curious about how the small panel will become critical load but the 150 charger is installed in the larger panel?? How will power be switched using a interlock? Back feed 150 will go to large panel. How does it get to the smaller panel? You still have to switch the utility power? Can’t wait for the next video.
I’m not 100% certain but I believe that the home backup power is a separate inverter box that connects to the charging system that he installed in this video. the inverter would have a separate breaker (with generator interlock bracket) in the 150amp “critical loads” panel.
So the power TO the truck FROM the charger will come from the main panel. In a power FROM the truck will come from the twist lock ON the truck TO the smaller panel. On the Lightnings and Ford Powerboost trucks there is a 240v twist lock connection (L14-30r) that will "extention cord" to the port feeding the smaller panel. There is a disconnect on the small panel that only allows power to come into it one way that way you can't back feed the big panel and in turn that guy on the power pole. And when the power does come back you can't back feed the truck. I'm sure back feeding the truck is not good for the it, although not 100% sure.
OK i take my statement partially back lol. Now I have the same question?? I did not know that on the lightings the charger is bidirectional. What I said holds true to a Ford Powerboost though.
I believe there is a 0-9 dial that you can set for different amp ratings.
80amp being the max.
I believe you can run #6 and set it as a 50amp charge. It may take a little longer than 80amp but if you have a long distance to run and you are not fortunate to be able to run it next to your panel, this could help in cost.
I admit that I have not watched this video yet, but what an incredible about of power! My whole house is only 100 amps and we had one place available for an 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet. I hope that this is part of their amazing two way charge/battery backup system, like using several Tesla Powerwalls to equal the massive power held in the Lightnings largest battery pack? It's to watch and learn from the experts.
Now, what if you needed 2 cars, as some families do.
@@drewthompson7457 They make load sharing chargers, like all the Tesla chargers as well as Wallbox and I think Juicebox. The chargers are networked together and you can set the maximum charge total in the app. In this case, you could set it to say 50 amps total for both chargers. If 2 vehicles show up depleted, they'll both charge at 25 amps. If 1 vehicle finishes first, then it'll drop to say 0 amps and the other would get the full 50 amps. It'll apportions those amps anywhere in between to total 50.
@@GROGU123 : depending on the vehicles, they might not charge over night. Say a family with a Lightning and a Hummer.
( Hopefully a rare occurrence)
@@drewthompson7457 If you have a Lightning and a Hummer, you better pay to get your home breaker updated to 200A or 400A. Honestly, it should be 200A already. I'm surprised there are still homes out there with only 100A. Most EV's are fine with say 25 amps of charging overnight. If you a quick charge on 25amps, you'll get about 15-20 miles of range per hour for most cars.
@@GROGU123 : I have read that in my area, 200 amp services are now a minimum allowed for new construction. But yes, a 400 or 600 amp service may be the way to go. As well as looking forward to outages and expensive power. After all, the government will need road taxes on these heavy vehicles wearing out the roads more.
I drive 1999 GMC suburban, even here I got 120v, obviously aftermarket, it totally makes sense to have it, i harge my laptop, drone, power tool batteries and powering things when camping.
Amazing walk through.
I would have installed chauking where cable entered charger to keep bugs out. ( fire stop even safer ). Was taught to never ring the insulation with a knife to strip jacket. Always used the pencil sharpener method. Saw way too many conductors that got knicked with a knife cutting a circle around jacket. If you knick fine strand conductors some strands will break off first time handling it.
Thanks for the great video. I have one question what is the actual name of the cable you used? I cant find it online. Thanks
I would like to visit this owner in a year. I hope he gets the use and stays delighted with this truck.
His truck is only for grocery shopping.
try out the makita cordless drywall saw. game changer. blade is adjustable to drywall thickness and has dust port for vacuum. zero dust and no worry about cutting wires or pipe behind wall
Should the wall charger also have a connector, like the one you used on the panel, to mechanically retain the nonmetallic cable?
It's plastic there
Those WIHA drivers are nice. Been using them for a few years now. I broke the the 9/16” on a hex head bolt. Made in Taiwan.
LOVE this video! Thanks so much for making this! Very well done. I've looked online EVERYWHERE for this #3 CU cabling. All I can find is 3-3-3-5 SER service entrance cable. The specs seem to match. Is this the right stuff?
All of the major electrical supply houses would have #3 CU: All Phase, CED, Kirby Risk, City Electric Supply, Allied Electrical. If that 3-3-3-5 is copper then it should be good to go, though I've never heard of size 5 for ground.
I have a quick question regarding 60C vs. 75C standard. My electrical inspector told me all residential wiring must adhere to the 60C standard regardless of wire type to meet code. Since this is wiring in a residence wouldn't it need 1 conductor to pass code? I get that this meets the 75C standard.
Nec 334.80 in short the wire used should utilize the 60 degree column. Not 75 or 90. Pretty sure it was supposed to be larger than #3
Wera and knipex best combo ❤️❤️❤️ and Fluke 😎
Hey bro can I use nm cable for this application. Look
334.80 Ampacity. The ampacity of Types I cable shall be determined in accordance allowable ampacity shall not exceed that rated conductor. The 90°C (194°F) rating s be used for ampacity adjustment and corr provided the final calculated ampacity does a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor. The amp NMC, and NMS cable installed in cable t mined in accordance with 392.80 (A).
If you have a Span panel and F150 lightening do you need to buy extra Ford panel?
Love your videos. True professional anyone of any status could learn something from this video I’m sure
Great video. How about flying to Park City, Utah for an installation!!
Why not use bushings on the romex connectors? Code says #4 or larger wire needs a bushing. I could be wrong.
@@michaeldezelar6264 never seen that in code. Please provide the code section that covers this so I can educate myself.
I'm thinking #3 under 300.4(G) which is met by the presence of the outer insulation and cable clamp...
Where raceways contain 4 AWG or larger insulated circuit conductors, and these conductors enter a cabinet, a box, an enclosure, or a raceway, the conductors shall be protected in accordance with any of the following:
(3) Separation from the fitting or raceway using an identified insulating material that is securely fastened in place
Hey Joel, just a learning question, the Ford Pro Charger install wire diagram on page 2 mentions a safety switch for any amperage over 60A.
I’m just wondering what is this safety switch and why would it be mentioned? Not sure if code or just a suggestion.
Thank you
This will accompany my new electric bill that just doubled quite nicely!
yeah and the gasoline payment that just went down by 8x that amount...
Important note. If EV charger circuit is on a standard GFCI or AFCI circuit breaker you can not back feed power from an EV vehicle into your house. Recently read that on either another great site IAEI or Mike Holt web site. Maybe someday they will come out with GFCI & AFCI two pole circuit breakers that will allow it. Know at present time that GFCI protection is only needed on 208 & 240 volt circuits 60 amps and under. Depending on code cycle might not need GFCI protection on EV hard wired chargers. If I had sn average sized EV think I rather go with a slower home charger. Read that some people believe battery life is reduced when batteries are charged at consistent high charhging rates. Also EV batteries will not get as hot if only charged with say a 240 volt 48 amp charger rather then a 80 amp charger.
Hadn't thought of this!
Nice video
For the technically minded we use system that is approximately 120 volt rms ac, this means that the peak voltage is about 170 peak. rms represents the same amount of power you could get from 120 volts dc. (the peak is too short to be useful) In single phase systems, in America, we use a center tap transformer to provide access to dual voltages 120 & 240 rms. The 240 volt circuits are generally for large heating devices: cooking , drying, heatpumps and the like, but now, charging of car batteries.
Excellent explanation, but I'd also like to clear up a misconception about how other countries outside the US get their 240V.
Someone once said that we basically had the same system as the US but with no neutral (especially because they saw we had red and black as our current carrying conductors in building wiring (here in Australia anyway)
That's not correct. Generally each street has 3 phase 240/415 running through it, so 3 phases and a neutral, 240 from each phase to neutral and 415 phase to phase. Each house has one of the phases and a neutral. Neutral and Earth are joined at the house fusebox, what we call a M.E.N system (multiple earthed neutral) Inside the building, for single phase wiring to regular lighting and outlets, red is Active (hot), black is Neutral and green/yellow is Earth (ground).
3 phase wiring is Red for L1, White for L2 and Blue for L3, Black for Neutral, and Green/Yellow for Earth as before. Some houses will have 3 phases available if they have a large HVAC system or is a large home with a lot of load to help balance the phases in the street.
Some rural and regional areas use SWER primary / single split phase power to homes (same as the US 120/240 residential) however our voltages are 240/480. So we have two 240V legs to a centre tapped neutral, or 480 between legs. Generally we don't have any single phase 480V loads so the house loads are just split evenly between each leg and neutral.
That is not an equivalent to DC voltage. That represents the heat disappation in a resistant load. The max DC voltage from single phase Vp (120/sqrt 2) 174x.636 = 108vdc.
Does the breaker have to be GFCI / AFCI type?
If my run is 26ft as the cable flys from the panel to we’re im mounting the charger ,can I still use a #3 cable ?
Just watched another video of a Ford Lightning owner who also had a mess dealing with Sunrun to get his home charger cable. He also waited weeks for his. Ford has really screwed this up. RRRREALLY, screwed this up having Sunrun ship these home chargers. Imagine having a new vehicle, sitting in your garage, and you can't drive it, for weeks. Nice going Ford. I'll pass.
Edit; The other fellow ALSO had major headaches with the craptastic Ford Charging app. LOL. Wow Ford. You're not doing this well at all. LOLOLOLOL.
BTW, GREAT video. VERY informative. I learned a lot today.
Did you do a load calculation. Could you share?
I'm curious about the ability of the Ford system to back up the house working with the Tesla Solar/Powerwall system. Have you ever had to do that?
What type (name) 3AWG wire was used here in this application? SER? NM must follow the 60C limitation per 334.80 which is 85A.
Where did you order the #3 3-conductor w/ground copper cable? Got a link?
Hey Joel, I like your content. Is that a video cam recorder you're wearing attached to the body harness? If yes, can you provide a link where you purchased it?
its a go pro - just search that and you will see millions of accessories.
@@MatthewLiegey I appreciate the reply. And yes, I have done my research already 💯💯
Watching the video now but where is the klein meter at?
Question - can you put the link to the wire you purchased? Thank you!
I'd love to hear more about color matching the red/black branch wires to the service ones. My service wires aren't colored at all. How would I do this? :)
We tried to cover that a little bit in this video: th-cam.com/video/imDXD54-Vtg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1dAJRxmTyl8pEMBO&t=2313. Let us know if it helps!
@@ElectricProAcademy thank you. And, no. I understand how the buses are arranged. What intrigues me, in fact I thought you were joking! ... . is 1) why do the phases need to be consistent? What if L1 in one subpanel is the opposite of another subpanel? And even more, why do they have actual identities? In the Ford truck video you matched the colors of wires in a branch circuit to the wires in the service entrance. Even if there is a reason to stay consistent between all of your panels why would it matter once you get out to a single branch circuit how the wire colors map to the service entrance?
Vivian's 120 volt outlets are only 15 amps, while Ford's are 20 amps and that includes inside of the cabin and I'd guessing the frunk as well. Ford has really done their homework. I hope that Tesla is watching carefully because if they don't give 20 amps as well, it's because they cost cut everything to death. If you can save a penny here and there or a gram here or there, Tesla will do it. They are relying on their vision systems to do what sensors used to do. They hope that their software can save all of their problems. I own a 4-1/2 year old Tesla Model 3 and for the most part the software improvements have been absolutely game changing.
Could you use #4 copper? That’s what I see most people using with this charger.
Is not allowed, although probably if all the conditions are perfect, probably you could, but I wouldn't risk it, is not worth it
@@alvilla701 I mean it’s allowed by code. #4 is 95A at 90C. You’re allowed to round up. So 100A. 100A sub panels are installed with #4 often
@@NextGenEvs no, it is not allowed, the 90° is for derating, you need to consider so many things, is a very long explanation, but basically you will never just use the 90° column to choose a wire.
Easy example is that you are only allowed to use the 60° column for 14,12 and 10 AWG.
Yes, #4 would require an 80A breaker and the charger has to be set to 64 amps. To get the full 80A charge rate you have to use #3 or larger.
The Gen2 Tesla Wall connector can be installed on a 100amp breaker for 80amp continuous current. However, they cheapened up the Gen3. Same thing with the original portable charging cable - was rated for higher current, than the current one.
nobody was using it. was meant for record setting L2.5 destination charging back in 2015 not overnight charging in 2023
@@richardroberson9277 yah.. not surprised. I have one, but keep the charging rate at 30-40 amps since I'm charging overnight anyway...
When you say THHN wire , Is Romex 6 G also THHN ( thermoplastic High heat resistance Nylon coated) ???
No, Romex has an outer jacket and then inner insulation for each conductor. THHN would just be a single conductor, with insulation, which would then be protected and supported by conduit. The ratings of the insulation between the two are generally different in terms of water and heat exposure.
Out of curiosity when you were out at the meter why did you have it covered up?
I'll answer for Joel - there is a customer meter number printed on the meter, which the customer may have requested be kept private for this public video.
Instead of copper can you use #1 awg aluminum ?
EV manuals often require copper wire only! I believe this was the case, but would need to double check the Lightning install manual.
When adding a 100 amp breaker to supply a charger circuit that is 50% of a standard 200 amp panel. At what point are you overloading the capacity of the panel?
That would take a load analysis of that 200A panel (adding up loads, applying proper NEC diversity factors, etc) - but great question. Also recall in this specific home, there are actually 300A of breakers (outside from the 320A meter there is a 200A feeder breaker and a 100A feeder breaker), so the added charge point is less than 50% of the entire house - but would definitely be worth looking into on just a 200A house.
Is that 3-3-3-5 SER? The reason I ask is because in my area SER installed in insulation is required to be derated to 60c, which would be 85A. The derating applies regardless of the insulation rating. That code is enforced for feeders and branch circuits alike. (In my area anyways)
Side note - The inspectors around here read code as “installed in insulation” and apply it to any insulation at all. Because of this, most (if not all) new service work has conduit from the meter base to disconnect, as well as from the disconnect to the panel.
It needs to be derated based on what the conductors are connected to. These days that's usually 75c, which still gives an ampacity of 100A. I suppose there could still be old breakers with 60c ratings, but best not to use them in an installation like this.
The charger alone is not enough for Ford power backup.
The install requires an inverter as well. DC comes from the truck through the charger then to the inverter via a separate set of wires.
And to use the inverter you would need an ATS probably some load management or shedding as well.
The truck provides ac
@@SteveStowell not out of the charge port for the automatic backup.
This is the reason the connector for the Ford charger uses the DC pins of the CCS connector.
The charger provides AC to charge the truck and gets DC to send to a separate inverter wired to provide emergency backup power.
I wanted to ask you something I have a customer that I have to put two of this one we thought at first the first one got damaged because of the faulty installation but then we installed a second one and we kept having problems. What happens is that the cable connecting to the car is getting hot all the time and apparently is making the charger interrupt the charge because of heating.
Is this a problem that your customer is also having? I didn't think it thru until I saw a gauge inside that allows the charger to run up to 70 amps which is fine for what we have installed in the breaker box, the problem is that if you check your video they use a number 6 going into the car. My understanding is that the charger is not an inverter and is not sending DC to the car but the car is actually pulling AC up to 70. Amp on a 6 AWG wire. My client just opted to get another charger when this happens but I think it's rather stupid having this high-tech car with allegedly high-tech charger and then for that to work that way. I hope you read my comment and if anyone else has anything of the sort happening to you please let me know
How have you not seen Monroe Live?!
Where can someone buy this power cable? So much simpler and easier than separate THHN
I wonderef even with a 200 amp sevice you maybe very close to capacity especially if you had to charge at peak electric times . Having a subpanel added to his 200 amp sevice may reflect that he has many circuits . With this size charger i wonder when you will have to upgrade the 200 amp service ? Say if you had to add another charger or more for additional evs .
This is my thought as well. I'm looking at two of my properties needing upgrades from 100A panels, with an out building, and additional subpanels at one place. 400A service seems quite reasonable for many people who are looking at the same scenario with a garage, sub panels, multiple EVs, etc. -- Having that bidirectional charging capability at 80A continuous can be really useful but has to be planned for.
The owners trying to teach you things is hilarious lol
When is a disconnect required?
I've just installed a diesel ⛽ in my garage. Go diesel go. 😊
I heard you mention the ampacity at 90c, but since.most breakers are rated for 75c, don't you need to use that column in the ampacity charts since it's the lesser of the two?
I think the context was simply that the manufacturer specifies using 90C rated conductors for installation with this charger; you're right that the overall capacity of the circuit will necessarily always be limited to 75C column ampacity, but in this case the manufacturer is simply specifying 90C conductors must be used.
@@ivandiaz5791 Thanks! This is what I came to the comment section for.
Will this work with an EV vehicle from a different manufacturer like Nissan? Thank you
The neutral wire will never need to be used for EV charging in the future. It's just added cost.
I like to see how good the A/C is, I need 4KW and that's a a big compressor/BPM motor.
use a micro-air soft start
To feed power from EV to house in an outage, wouldn't it require a transfer switch of some kind so the grid isn't back fed? Does the other part of Fords back-up system include one?
a generator interlock (which he mentioned) is another way of ensuring you don't backfeed the lines on the pole. It allows you to determine what loads in the main panel you want to energize using the breakers you already have without having to re-run important loads to another sub-panel.
@@MatthewLiegey it's required for feeding a house especially on a new install....If anything anyone putting in these should be required to have one before it would let it feed to the house.
Is there an exterior provision to accept conduit ? The Tesla super chargers have the ability to run conduit on the wall and come into the charger. Awesome video btw.
See you’re a fan of the Wera drivers! Amazing right? Have switched all my Klein, crescent and Greenlee drivers to Wera!
Can i use this Ford Charging Pro to charge my Tesla if i get an adapter?
Lets be honest, he's not hauling anything in that truck bed, plus that new house isnt needing projects. Having worked in construction, you can tell this homeowner wouldn't settle for anything other than done correctly and to completion. But its a nice house and setup.
Link to cable ripper with blunt end?
Sunrun is third party for fords home integration backup system. If you review these backup systems, there have been many problems. For $4000 plus installation costs that shouldn't be.
Can it not just plug into the current outlet?
It can, but could not charge at the full rate.
why is copper wire required? Why not aluminum wire?
The connectors inside the charger are sized for copper. Aluminum is bigger.
Ahhh, the ultimate suburban dad truck. About 100 grand??!!
Yes not bad
Since my house is wired for only 200 amps, I've wondered if the local utilities would wire a new completely separate new service to an existing house? Say, into the garage.
Can you imagine a 2 car family, both being EVs?
Also, I wonder about the safety of the 120 volt truck outlets, not being grounded.
But since I'm not buying an EV, (yet), I have time to find the answers.
As far as I know, Canada/USA electric codes only allow one service per dwelling unit, however they have done a video where a separate service and meter was installed for EV charging. They did not install the EV charging equipment at that time, so I do not know if the charging equipment was to be located indoors our outdoors. If I understood correctly the separate meter for the EV charging was to enable the utility charging a different rate for EV charging supply. It should be noted that the job had 3 service installed, a total of 1,000 Amps from what I gather the building had to separate dwelling units.
@@ronaldkovacs7080 the key stipulation may be "dwelling unit" there. In rural areas of USA there are many barns, pole barns, workshops, etc that are detached and not for living in. People either run off the main panel or pay for another meter, monthly bill, etc at the 2nd utility drop. Those monthly fees add up over 10-20 years.
No plastic bushing to protect the wire.
So you are saying the inverters can work with 100 Amp AC.
Weird to put 400 amps outside but only install space for 300 amps inside.
Never saw any copper SER in my 50 years as a sparky. 40 years ago I called a local supply house for price on 200 amp copper SEU service cable. They only stocked it at a branch down the shore. Was a dollar an inch. When I called homeowner to tell him that a copper 200 amp setvice would cost $300 more then if I went with Aluminum setvice cable he called me a F ***ing thieve so I hung up on him. General contractor tried to tell me that I had to cut the price by $150. Told him buy the copper service cable and I would cut price by $300. He must have called 6 supply jouses and could not believe the high price. Customer called me back s week later telling me to do his copper service. Told him that I would never perform work for anybody that curses me out & calls me a thieve. You would think that some EV chargers would be made with lugs that accept aluminum wire.
Yeah! 💰💰💰
A CAT-2, Panel "SURGE PROTECTOR" should be added to stay with current NEC 2020 Electrical code, so much AFCI, has been added I notice those panels didn't have any ?
AFCI is not enforced in the state of Indiana
Is it me or do the conductors coming from the load side of the charger look under sized?
They have a higher temperature rating, which allows them to be smaller for the same amount of current. They are smaller but that's okay because of the temperature rating.
So where does the power come from if everyone on the street wants one?
Solar on your roof. Utilities may pay you to have solar so they won't need to up size the grid.
From the same place it comes from now.
Maybe Ford will upgrade the app.
If a homeowner owned two or more EV'S ( teenage kids and such ) you would probably have be to install a new very expensive 400 amp service with the outdoor service disconnect. Can remember when me & my brother were in high school & our parents owned two cars. Both cars were away from the house from 6 & 7 AM until after 10 PM every weekday night because me & my brother took h parents car to work when on they got hone. Weekends forget about trying to charge an EV. We would either be working til after 1 AM or out with buddies. Saw a u tube vidio where a guy compared two new top of the line Ford pickup trucks on a 20 degree day pulling a fair sized loaded trailer . One was an EV other a conventional ICE truck. With the EV using the heater the big hit only around 49% of normal range. Lazy EV charging companies must spend $5 to install a 240 to low voltage transformer for control circuit to save homeowners at least $35 on the addition ( white grounded conductor ). Same with electric dryer manufacturers. The NEC should have not thier prima Donna heads out of their asses 75 years ago and made dryer companies use 240 volt drum motors and a 100 VA transformer to supply power to drum light & control circuit. Now with an LED drum light could get by with a 40 VA transformer and only need 10/2 copper and cheaper 3 verses a4 wire receptacle. Doesn't take a scientific calculator to figure out that's its much cheaper to have lazy cheap skate manufacturers never require a white grounded conductor on any 208 or 240 volt appliances.
Share the circuit. One turns on after the other
Have you installed a Tesla power share system yet?
Nice video, love the editing and the content and presentation. I also learn something new with everyone of your videos. (BTW I am a DIYer). I have a question on cover plate screws. Over time as I add/change circuits, the thin receivers for the blunt plate screws have STRIPPED out (too thin IMHO). My solution has been to re-tap with next larger screw, but I have even stripped that out as well, and had to re-tap once more with the next larger. ARGH!. What is a good solution to fix that better? Nut-Serts? thanks
If you’re talking about your panel cover look at speed nuts, U type fastners. Available at Lowes and most Automotive stores. It will give you back some threads.
The little blue message box said the nominal charge capacity at 80 amps is 17Kw’s. Math says it should be about 19.2Kw’s do you know what up with this discrepancy? (Power = Energy * Current or 240volts * 80amps) I own the same Ford truck and charger, and limit my charger to 48 amps because I share my 100 amp breaker with two heat pump air conditioning systems. I average pretty close to the math predicted wattage of 11.5Kw’s.
I agree with the 240V x 80A = 19.2
I was taught LONG ago that sharing something as small as a 15A breaker was a no-no......ONE screw.....ONE conductor under it.
There's code rules....and then there's "common sense"...I sure wouldn't be doing it on a 100A breaker.
It'd be interesting seeing an Infrared shot of your "2 wire-single" connection when it's drawing a load....I can practically guarantee it'll be "warmer" than it would be under a single connector. The FLIR training I took taught me how much MORE I needed to learn about electricity...equations are one thing....what goes on in the real world's another.
Just an FYI....electricity is a "cruel" teacher when she proves someone wrong right in FRONT of you...not something you want to see or remember....ask me how I know.⚡⚡🤔
@@CannonFodder873 I mentioned in the comments that when I hooked my ford charger up following spec fully, the temps of the backstabs from the bussbar in my panel with no cover was over 160 degrees - uncomfortably high for me. I lowered the charger's pot setting to 60 amps for a more respectable heat load in the panel. I also made space above and below my breaker in the panel to give it some breathing room.
This shows exactly why today's city infrastructure can't accommodate EV (or two EVs) at every house. My house is only 100 amp.
Also it shows the difficulties in employees taking company vehicles home.
The main panel I assume is rated at 200 amps. How are you not overloading the panel by installing a additional 100 amp load? Also #3 copper is rated for 85 amps. A CB is there to protect the cables not the equipment. The equipment should have internal protection. You have a mismatch between the cable and the CB.
#3 is rated at 100A at 75 degrees celsius, which is the correct temperature of this circuit. The customer will manage their circuit capacity from the app to prevent overloading the panel. They are aware of the situation and we have installed to their request.
Can this charger be used to charge a Tesla if i use an adapter?