The Serve RETURN: The Most Undervalued Shot in Pickleball
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2023
- Join me as I deep dive into the anatomy of the "Return" - a shot often overlooked but absolutely crucial in mastering the sport! Get ready to revolutionize your approach to the "Return" and gain a competitive edge on the court.
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Timestamps:
00:00 - กีฬา
Love the way you presented this! Going through the “why”, then “how”, and finally real time tutorial with an actual player. Great job!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Kyle this was an awesome tutorial! I’ve been playing for a minute and there was still a ton of really clearly explained and demonstrated stuff in this video. Please continue with these lessons. Thanks buddy!!
Thanks for watching. Glad it was helpful!
What a great video!! Having you & Nico introducing the overview mechanics for a good return THEN bringing JP (without the instruction) and pairing him up, one on one w/ Nico, to review the mechanics was soooo helpful. Using some side by side split screen SLO MO matching Nico & JP footwork/swing & then JP Before and After (split screen) would be next level. Kyle, your videos & instruction are getting better and better!!!! Thanks alot.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great tutorial! Thank you. I plan on watching this several times.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Kyle! I’ve lost too many games recently, or let them get too close, due to unforced errors on the return. I’m going to drill these hard this week and going forward.
Glad I could help!
Kyle, I really thought I had a good return and what Nico said is closely related to tennis. But, what is really great is how carefully he refines it for pb. Thank you for the presentation and how to adjust a faulty version into a perfected version.
Really great! I too am going to focus on this!
PS. I think this is better than learning from a local pb pro!! Wow! :)
Drilled this a couple days and I feel much more confident. I went from a couple return errors/game to a couple every few games this week, plus all returns are noticeably more consistent.
Love it!
The faster your return, the less time you'll have to get to the kitchen. Backslice, high, deep lofted return will help you get to the kitchen every time.
While Zane Navratil drops a video on why the pros don’t slice anymore 😅
True but switching up if you drive or drop helps keep you less predictable
shot selection is partly based on the level of your opponents. If slice works at 3.5-4.0, then you play it. If it doesn't work well at 6.0+, then you play it less against 6.0+. You can't use pro selection as the best decision for 3.5-4.0 in all cases. @@wulymammoth
You never drop a serve return (the video is about the serve return). That's giving up the kitchen to the service side and creating equality for no reason.@@thatpickleballguy
@@Andrew-li5oh i think you misread the "dropping of the video" as a "drop on return". The video from Zane is about a slice on return of serve
Awesome Video Kyle. In fact all your video's are very good. I learned so much. Been struggling with having good returns against higher level players and this video gave me a great lesson on things I can do to be more consistent.
Glad to help! Thanks for watching!
Love the way you present your videos!
Your videos are the ones I tell newer players to watch as you make the understand of what you are teaching very simple
Simplicity is the ticket to most able to understand and learn what is being taught 👌
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for the entertaining and informative video, Kyle. I always enjoy your content!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoy it!
Very well explained. Great to see you show a "newish guy" then the improvement.
Glad you liked it!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the video. From all my tennis and pickleball years of playing and teaching, the open stance at the net at the backhand wide dink in pickleball created SI joint problems and was out of playing and teaching for several months. Then loading on the right foot for a wide forehand ground stroke caused a lot of arthritis and had hip replacement 3 months ago. My SI joint on the dink healed and now I'm having to adjust to hitting a wide stance for the return with a cross-over step. Lots of hip rotation on open stance caused the hip problems. I continue to use open stance on dinks and 3rd shot drives and backhand 3rd shot drops and forehand ground strokes I'm more limited. As a teaching pro I demonstrate both stances. At 72 I'm still playing 4.0 mixed and 3.8 doubles but I have to adjust the stance. Again I appreciate your videos!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Kyle! Looking forward to your backspin video you mentioned at ~3:39. Would love to see your take both on how to hit that shot (FH & BH sides) as well as responding to it well. Perhaps even some slow motion (240fps) footage?
Thanks for watching! Stay tuned!
Thank you! I don’t have a tennis background, and knew I would take lots of little extra awkward steps and it felt like my feet were getting tangled.
But I tried out these tipsl in rec play today and I could tell a difference! I felt like I had more time, more balance and more solid contact. Great coaching!
Glad it was helpful!
Kyle, you provide excellent content. I am an Ex professional tennis player, and this is very helpful. It is making me better and better every day.
Thanks so much! Glad it's helpful!
I have trouble with my return- coming from a softball background this helped me with what I might be doing wrong. Also saying that the return is different from the drive. Light 💡. Thank you for your tutorials. Easy to pay attention to and follow.
Glad it helped!
Glad it was helpful!
Great Vid... using an avg player really helpful. Watching pro's hit shot is cool but seeing a lower level player makes it seem more relevant
Glad it was helpful!
Dope video as always thank you. I tell everyone I know about your channel keep up the great work
I appreciate that! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for watching and sharing the channel!
Great visuals and explanations breaking it all down.
Glad you liked it!
Love your content!! has helped my Pickleball play tremulously!! thank you!!
Great to hear! Thanks for watching!
Really nice tutorial. the demo with Nico and JP helped me pick up a couple of techniques to improve my return. I believe that i turn, close my foot work, too much. and I'm always at fault of a big swing. thanks for your video.
Glad it was helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Random but I was at the National Pickleball Championships in Dallas. I am newish to pickleball but I was looking for you and told my friend "I am looking for ThatPickleballGuy!" And he said "there are a bunch of pickleball guys here..." And I said "No. There are a lot of pickleball players here but there's only ONE Pickleball Guy!"
Hope to catch you at a tournament one day!
That's awesome! Thanks for the support!
This is so helpful. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Good stuff. I think the return of serve mimics tennis in several ways.
Great Video! Please please do a video focusing on handling slice returns, deep sliced returns are becoming much more common as I move up the ladder and I'm unsure what to do with deep sliced returns that are low and fast vs sliced returns that are deep with a high arc
Thanks for watching! I will keep that in mind!
Amazing tutorial - keep up the great work!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the great lesson!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you again for good coaching
My pleasure!
not that i am going to buy a second ball machine, but would enjoy a full video of the ernie machine! wish i had waited a bit.
I will keep that in mind!
Great tips! Another tip is if your opponent has a great hard serve (or happens to blast a good one) don’t worry about a good looking return. Just get it back! Lift it a bit more or block it to the deep middle of your opponents and live to fight again! Too many players take a full swing and mishit it into the net or out.
Very true!
I make a lot of mental notes when I play and it's amazing how many points are lost due to a shallow return of serve. Well done.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Kyle! Great video!
Glad you liked it!
That statistic in the beginning was crazy! for sure one of the most undervalued shot in pickleball. Great vid
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching!
Excellent! Took it to regular rec play it turns the pressure WAY UP. Thanks!
Lets go!!
This is fantastic video instruction (although all of your videos are great...). Ditto the recent comments on using Nico and JP to demonstrate the specific ways to improve his return with the open stance vs. the closed stance and how the open stance technique will help you get to the kitchen line quicker. Great Job!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Very in depth and helpful. Like an in person lesson.
Glad it was helpful!
great graphics, good one, thanks for doing this
Glad you liked the content. Thanks!
I needed this video!
Glad it was helpful!
another great video...thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
The point of the double bounce rule is to give a slight advantage to the defending team. But you can’t score until you serve so this makes the third shot the most important shot in pickleball. If you can drop your third shot in the kitchen as you get to the net now you can start a rally on equal position and win more points. But get it wrong and pop it up you’re in trouble.
Another great video Kyle! 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice work! Very thorough :)
Glad you think so!
More Nico! He is a great teacher ( must have learned from the best : )
Nico is the man!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for this video. I've been working on a consistent return. I'm guilty of running all around to get a closed stance return. I did better with this open stance approach tonight. Still having trouble returning then getting up to the NVZ as fast as hitting on the run though.
Glad it was helpful!
On the return instead of planting and striking the ball then moving you might try starting behind the ball and blocking the ball a little higher and deep while running thru it. Your forward momentum will get you a lot closer to the kitchen ready for the third shot.
Thanks Kyle, great video on the basic return. At the lower levels like me you see a variety of serves from high to short either because the server is trying to do that type of serve or they just don't know. I'd like to see a video on handling the different types of serves we see at the 3.0-3.5 level. Also, there was no discussion on the 1st shot drop or short return that can cause the server to not be able to hit a good shot or a shot into the net. When should we try the 1st shot drop? EVER? Thanks Again!
I see a short serve, or a short return work occasionally. I think it's good for variety. But i'd stil with keeping your opponents back a majority of the time.
Serve and returns should be targeted depending on your opponents abilities. If you’ve been serving deep fast serves and the receiver is deep anticipating it, then the unprotected open area is short/slow drop serve to make them move. The same goes for targeting the backhand or balls so wide they drive your opponent off the court. Even try deep/high lobs to see how they are covered. You’ll play better if you can capitalize on your opponents weaknesses.
There is also a biomechanical reason for the split step. Exercise physiology teaches that it is easier to initiate movement (i.e., react) if you are already moving-even if you are moving in the opposite direction. This is why you see tennis players swaying before they receive a serve.
Great input!
Hi Kyle, always great content. I really appreciate it! Are you playing any tournaments this year? What is your DUPR rating? What is your honest opinion about DUPR ratings?
Will be playing more tournaments yes.
I think mine is around 6.08 or something close to it.
DUPR is great. I think a universal rating system is a fantastic idea.
Very helpful--covered lots--JP's examples were instructive--though seemed after he hit he usually stepped forward with the leg that had the most weight on it vs the less weighted leg--seemed to make him a bit slower in coming forward (as he had to weight shift again to the opposite leg)
Glad it was helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
The key seems to be optimizing your ability to get to the kitchen ASAP.Great tip and makes total sense!Great tips as always!👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻😎
Glad it was helpful!
parabéns pelo vídeo, muito didático, aprendi muito e irei repassar aos meus alunos, venha ao Brasil dar clínicas!
"Congratulations on the video, very educational, I learned a lot and I will pass it on to my students, come to Brazil and give clinics!"
fantastic
Another great video! I too enjoy seeing someone below a 4.5 going through a process. I think though for the no-tennis background players that a more detailed description of open and closed stance would be useful.(You could link back to your beginner video on the drive where you do use the term closed) The terms were used but really just in passing in the video. Just as an aside, I only remember 1 youtube instructional pickleball video on hitting the Open stance forehand(by JC) So that may be an idea for a future video?(where you may or may not want to introduce the terms unit turn and wrist lag too?) Your 'These 5 pickleball Beginners mistakes'video title pic shows a great example of your wrist lag! ;-)
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it!
Saw you do a BERT on this week's Tuesday Night Team Event. Didn't turn out that great, but it looked awesome!
Thanks for watching!
Excellent video. Curious what you think of the Selkirk Luxx Control paddle it appears you are using in the video? Thank you.
its a really good paddle. I was testing it out in this video!
I'm still going to continue to use my pretiste power air. But Definitely a fan of the luxx as well!
Thanks Kyle!
Thanks for watching!
Excellent tips as always, thanks. Wondering also how your wrist is doing? As someone who's been having wrist issues after playing, I'd be curious to know how you've been dealing with it. Currently using a Shock Doctor band on my wrist which seems to have helped. Anyway, cheers!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching! Glad to hear the shock doctor is helping!
I found the portion on weight transfer extremely useful in actual game play.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome!
Great job! What tool(s) did you use for the Paddle animations at the start?
Thanks for watching! The editor is awesome and super creative!
Nice video. Good instruction. Great editing. Bet those neighbors hate pickleball. 😂
thank you!! and nah, they like it :)
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
this is a great video. I have a fundamental difficulty understanding why I would hit the return the the legs side by side. The movement of the arms forward is pushing your body backwards, so hitting it more sideways (one foot fwd, the other back) will be much more stable, no? The only way to counteract this backwards force in an "open" position is for the body to be leaning forward and that means it will be harder to get it right. Thoughts? Thanks as always for the videos.
Glad it was helpful!
With your feet side by side your using more upper body and slightly more arm strength. Your not swinging your body around your arm your swinging your arm around your body. Your impact is in front of your body so there’s no backwards torque. Your stability is a function of balance regardless of where your feet are. IF you hit with a front and back feet stance your opponent will recognize that you have eliminated your chance of playing a quick return to your backhand. You lose the point.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
My split-step is not something I think about after 20+ years of tennis but the video linked to below is a far better and more detailed explanation of how to time your split-step. Eventually it becomes automatic and you no longer think about it:
th-cam.com/video/XR83yXLla8w/w-d-xo.html
The purpose of the split step is to "load" your body weight onto your legs, like compressing springs, so that you can "unload" (spring with your legs) in whatever direction you need to go. If you don't split step, then when the ball is hit at you, you need to first "compress the springs" of your legs, then spring in a direction (so, a two-step process); with a split step, your springs are already compressed as the ball is coming at you, so you just have a one-step process to spring in whatever direction you need to.
Great analogy!
what are your thoughts on the speed of the return? I feel a slow return is better and gives me more time to get to the kitchen vs driving it hard and i do not have as much time to get to the kitchen due to the speed the ball is traveling.
I think that's generally a good plan.
If you hit it deep, and you're at the kitchen before they're about to strike their 3rd shot, you've done a good job. That's the main principle.
One thing they did not cover, which I think it is important, is about handling the return with open stance or close stance. If the ball comes in deep or wide, open stance is preferred. The ball is so deep and wide, that you do not want to have close stance (which implies stepping in). You will save precious milliseconds to use open stance. Keep in mind though, for forehand, open stance is quite natural, but for backhand is a bit getting used to though.
If the ball comes in slightly shorter, you might step in and use close stance. Especially on the backhand, close stance is much more natural. The right foot steps in across the body, brings the right shoulder over so the body is naturally turned, and the racket is closer to the ball. For forehand, it is about the same, both open stance and close stance are quite natural for shorter ball.
Thanks for watching!
Any date for the Erne machine drills?
No date set. you're looking for more ball machine drills?
I already have it but the drills on VST's youtube page seem too perfect that it doesn't transfer well probably due to the fact that they test it indoors. Anyway, I'm just curious how a pro like you would utilize Erne.@@thatpickleballguy
They love pickleball soo much they had to put the AC unit on top of the house!!!
Pickleball is life 😎
Pickleball is America's fastest-growing sport and we like it #Pickleball
Question on min 2:51 they show a player retuning the serve and then switching sides. Is this legal for me to return the serve and switch to the side I'm more comfortable say if I was left handed. Or right handed?
yep, totally legal! here is a video on the topic - th-cam.com/video/npCzByb7IUo/w-d-xo.html
Great video. Need to video myself to how far off my return is. Then practice 10,001 times. Millsaps Majors.
You can do it!
Kyle, what's your thought on the backspin return enabling your opponent to get extra topspin on their 3rd shot drive [see recent Zane Navratil video]? I'm torn between 1) sticking to my traditional slice, 2) trying my tennis slice with less backspin but lots of sidespin like Federer, or 3) trying my accurate and reliable topspin groundstroke ... or all of the above :0
I'd try them all.
Depends on the level. But MANY struggle to handle the slice return. They try to hit a drop and end up missing into the net.
When I see heavy slice, I do opt for the 3rd shot drive to get the opponent to block the ball and remove the spin.
I like the side spin as well for some variability!
Yeah, I suppose options are good. My opponents don't net my slice returns, but I'm going to mix in some topspin and side slice down the middle more often. Nice videos. @@thatpickleballguy
Why would the close vs the twist be any different than in tennis? 1) You do it in tennis and the ball is coming to you way faster with even less time to react 2) IF the ball came slower, you’d create more power and/or control
I need damn near every player I play with locally to study the animation in the first minute and a half of this video.
Glad you thought it was helpful! Don't hesitate to share with all of them 😉
I love your advice!
I do not want to hear about tennis. You are teaching us about pickleball.
Glad you enjoy it!
Kyle, Love the way you present your content. I'm ordering another Selkirk Labs paddle. Do you have a Selkirk Discount Code? I assume you get a cut of that and I'd like to help you out if I can.
I appreciate that :)
Yes heres my code - “adv-thatpickleballguy”
Hey Kyle, the graphic at about .36 has the server hitting the ball before it bounces, oops 😊
But I really liked the video 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
What if the ball is hit fast right to you? As in middle, between forehand and backhand.
Communicate with your partner who will slide over and take that ball more often!
Is that a pickleball court in someone's back yard? Sweet!
:)
Just curious, what paddle does Nico have in this video?
He plays with a Head paddle.
Nico is a great coach. He should have a youtube channel
Nico is awesome!
Kyle, let’s get that how to handle the bavk doin video up. I heard this video this morning after playing last night with some guy who had a nasty backhand slice.
I'll keep that in mind!
Someday I’ll figure out how to consistently return with slice.
Keep working on it! You've got this!
The open stance return does not move you closer to the net joining your partner. If you use a closed stance you get two bites of the apple. Deeper returns as a result of the forward momentum and forward momentum as a result of stepping towards the net. Otherwise, good info.
Thanks for watching!
Not an outlandish suggestion for a schooled tennis player. Very useful nonetheless 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Airball violation at @0:35
“Quick interruption”
Me: “Skiiiiiip”
Nice!
6:32 to 8:02 is the core content of this video. You are welcome!
Thanks for your service.
Is that Nico Montoya from AZ??
sure is
I agree with most of this, great description of the mechanics and the short stroke. I think you missed the emphasis on getting to the kitchen especially for your target audience. I do slightly disagree with your quote from Craig Johnson. Yes most important is a deep shot but if you're not getting to the kitchen 100% of the time (minus a few really good serves/instances) then that percentage is what you're losing your advantage on 100%. If you had practiced him getting to the kitchen on each return we would have had a better idea. I like to start about 3 feet back and if served short then you are hitting on the run. That needs practice too. Any back step limits your ability and chances of getting to the kitchen before a return comes over the net. If you're late a good player will take advantage of that with a stronger/faster/lower 3rd shot. It is the single most important strategy to the unknowing intermediate player to get to advanced and you guys missed the mark here in my opinion.
Thanks for watching!
I disagree and think your later addition of that quote was perfect. Too often players are so focused on getting to the NVZ that they hit a poor return shot and then pay for it...while at the NVZ,
Millsaps? Where is John from originally?
Yep, in MIssissippi
@@thatpickleballguy I had a bunch of friends go to Milksops from New Orleans area.
another pro said to take lots of little steps and move your feet more, so idk i'd rather listen to him
Cool! Do what works best for you! These are just more ideas. Lots of ways up the mountain
can you talk a bit more about loading and unloading?
I will keep that in mind!
The "trainee" hit every return of serve hard. It seems to me that he should have been instructed to hit some, or most, with more loft which would allow more time for him to get to the Kitchen.
More loft would be good too!
deep is the most important thing though!
Faaaark,can you slow down??
Sorry! Just so excited to talk about pickleball!
Pickleball is not tennis. The quicker a tennis player learns this they will cut out the flying elbow taking the paddle back. Thats why table tennis players have the advantage, no flying elbow. Though its good entertainment for tennis players coming into the game.
For sure! Thanks for watching!
Lol the flying elbow. How to say you have no racquet skills without saying you have no racquet skills. Absolutely when a PB player sends their sad slow “5.0” serve at me I’m gonna wind up and crack a forehand. I also know what a drop volley is 😂 I started pickleball in April. I’m currently at the “your serve is illegal” stage of making 4.0-5.0 pickleballers cry. They’ve never seen a drop volley or a topspin return at their feet or *gasp* a hard serve 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
But who is REALLY going to make you cry crocodile tears is badminton players. Their game translates even better than tennis.
@@Largecanyondog except watch the best, AWL and Ben, no wasted flying elbow. All those tennis wannabees got the flying elbow. Good luck on your rec play, keep your day job.
@@gg80108 so you’re trying to cop a superiority complex over tennis and badminton with a sport that 80 year olds with two replaced knees can be a “4.0”. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I play at an Olympic badminton training center they use courts for PB daytime. There are 3-4 badminton players that would absolutely smoke any pickleball player you could name.
There’s a whole world outside granny ball. Check it out.
The load is the knee bend and keeping low not twisting.
Thanks for the input!
They’re both twisting and bending the knee to load
@@mote44etom without bending knee the the twist is mediocre for power. Try it yourself. From the couch the power is always perfect.
If the return is poor, probably the play after the return is also poor, contributing to the final appalling statistic. Being able to make a strong return of serve is highly correlated to being a stronger professional player all around. Huh. Who knew?
Thanks for watching!
Dudes great info and video but for fucks sake S-L-O-W down!
I think what would help us in the videos is using the girl more for your helper. 🤭🤭
Thanks for the feedback!
The demos by Nico are great. However, toward the end of the video, JP is not doing the technique that you are teaching, and yet Nico is telling him it's good or perfect. JP appears to be weighted on the wrong foot, and he is definitely starting off to move forward on the wrong foot (opposite of the technique that Nico is demonstrating). This is a mistake I see in other instructional videos when beginners/nonexperts are involved. Please don't take this personally, as I like your instruction format and have watched several of your other videos.
Thanks for the feedback. Not personal.
In watching it back again, I see your point. Trying out this new format in videos.
It's definitely a bit difficult to execute on. Will try to improve it in the next video :)
Bad coaching: at about minute 14, when the guy in the black shirt is hitting, the coach is saying the shots are nice. No! The hitter is launching forward with the wrong leg after his shots. Yet the coach is not correcting him. When the coach is showing how to hit, he launches forward with his left leg after his shots. The student is launching forward with his right leg after his shots. And we can see how uncomfortable it is for the student, how wrong it looks.
I think he did it bc be was watching the lefty coach.