ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Recapping walkthrough of Apple (SONY) 400K 3.5" floppy drives for 1984 Macintosh 128K & 512K (& Lisa) computers. Video closes with Epyx Winter Games (1985).
⚠️ DISCLAIMER! A recap won't fix most problems you may have with your 400K drive. Old grease that has frozen mechanical parts is the biggest problem which I cover in my Lube Repair video here: • Apple 400k Floppy Driv...
🔎 INDEX
0:00 - Intro
3:38 - External Drive (Disassembly)
6:30 - Internal Drive (Disassembly)
7:05 - Discharge the CRT
7:58 - Drive Removal (Internal)
10:38 - Overview of 3 different 400K drive mechanisms
12:43 - Older "A" 64K ROMs (Mac 128K or 512K)
13:18 - Newer "B" 64K ROMs (Mac 128K or 512K)
16:07 - 400K & 800K drives, side-by-side
21:20 - Removing the spring-loaded parts (optical sensors)
26:16 - My soldering setup
29:28 - Big PCB Recapping
35:17 - Small PCB Recapping
40:34 - Head Cleaning
41:52 - Reassembly
49:09 - Testing
56:49 - Faint Beeping Sounds (from Speaker) are normal
57:26 - Closing Words
1:00:17 - Epyx Winter Games
💾 Winter Games DOWNLOAD: macintoshgarden.org/games/win...
• Why it doesn't work on Mini vMac: bit.ly/2YMi4DW
🛒 CAPACITORS:
• Mouser Cart for newer OA-D34V-22: bit.ly/3dl56B9
• Mouser Cart for older OA-D34: bit.ly/2zSpzyy
🛠️ TOOLS & THINGS TO BUY:
• Anti-static pad with Wrist Strap (16x24" / 41x61cm): amzn.to/3bfAE9Z
or
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• Wall socket Ground adapter for banana-jack Wrist Strap: amzn.to/2Yvq5ge
• Torx T15 with LONG neck (to open Mac): amzn.to/3qLyJYb
• Bulldog Clip (helpful to pry off back case): amzn.to/2H7lIhF
• 99% ISO Alcohol (Spray Bottle!): amzn.to/3ae4fG6
• 99% ISO Alcohol: amzn.to/3NoFkxN
• 99% ISO Alcohol: amzn.to/2YsK8v3
💁♂️3 alcohol choices because it's often out of stock. 70% will work, 91% is better, but 99% is best for electronics cleaning.
• 1 Cotton Swab for head cleaning
• Thermal Grease: amzn.to/2SNmB5e
• Phillips Screwdriver (+)
• Needle Nose Pliers: amzn.to/2U9Kc0M
• Wire Nippers 4.5": amzn.to/2J4Wkdk
• Flat-head (-) Screwdriver (for CRT discharging)
• Wire with alligator clips at both ends (for CRT discharging)
• Basic Soldering Iron Kit (80W, cheap!): amzn.to/3tELJAP
or
• Soldering Station (120W, ESD safe): amzn.to/30g1Frt
or
• HAKKO (Japanese) brand Soldering Station: amzn.to/2YvIo42
• Solder (Leaded Rosin Core 1.6mm): amzn.to/3IGuxxm
• Desoldering wick (Amazon US): amzn.to/3iMAnA5
💁♂️TIP: Set soldering iron temperature to 350°C. Don't use lead-free solder.
• DE-5000 Handheld LCR Meter (Amazon US): amzn.to/2ScttJz
💁♂️The best handheld meter to check capacitor ESR, capacitance, etc. Comes with all 3 accessories: TL-21, TL-22 & TL-23.
🔋 PRAM Battery (for Mac): amzn.to/2R1qYZE
💾 FloppyEMU: bit.ly/2WBmhHO
💵 NOTE: Your price on Amazon (US only) is the same even if you don't click the "amzn.to" Affiliate links above, but if you do kindly click and purchase within 24 hours, Amazon may pay me a small commission on all qualifying items in your Cart (even items not linked above).
📚 USEFUL INFORMATION:
• 400K drive repair discussion about "Sony Test": tinyurl.com/5n6s3r3a
💾 Sony Test 7.0 DOWNLOAD: macintoshgarden.org/apps/sony...
• 400K Floppy Drive Specifications (brief): bit.ly/2T5sNGC
• 400K Floppy Drive Specifications (detailed): bit.ly/3berqe8
• Clicking sound Fix: bit.ly/36yTjfB
• "Disks always locked" cause: bit.ly/2QVbh5l
💾 System 0.85 DOWNLOAD: bit.ly/2YHJkU2
• How to use 800K drives with Macs that have 64K ROMs: bit.ly/3fE7Rj0
🗣 Join us at tinkerdifferent.com and in the "Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts" FaceBook group for more vintage Mac tips, trade and help.
💰SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL
If you wish to buy me a drink or otherwise support my content creation: www.paypal.me/supportJDW
🙏 MY SINCERE THANKS to the following Paypal subscribers in Early May 2020:
• James Browne
• Patrick Randall
• Rami Preshov
📺 Please SUBSCRIBE:
th-cam.com/users/JDW11?sub_c...
🎬 MY OTHER VIDEOS
/ jdw26
#Apple #400kfloppy #Macintosh #JDW - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Folks, at 55:30 I show that holding down the mouse button at cold boot doesn't eject the external 400K floppy. I've since changed those 64K ROMs on the 512K motherboard for 128K ROMs (same as the Mac Plus), and now when I hold the mouse button down and switch on power, the external drive will eject the disk. So I guess it was a bug that Apple figured out needed a fix in the ROM code.
This is a way more professionally put together video that it needed to be! Very nice! Thank you so much for making such a thoughtfully put together guide!
You're doing a real service to help those of us who restore old machines -- Thank you!
Thank you for your kind words, Roger!
Great video as always - thanks for taking the time to make this video!
Thank you for your kind words and for making great injection molded cases for old Macs! Your hard work is a real asset to the vintage Mac community!
I really enjoy watching your videos. You put a lot of thought and dedication into your work. Thank you!
Thank you for your kind words, Krishna!
I'm gonna sample the sounds in your intro. Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
You are welcome to do so!
Very good video thank you for putting it up on youtube!
Thank you for your kind words, Stan!
Nice
Do I ever remember this! I was 9 when my father brought home our first Mac. In 1987 we picked up a used 512 and an HD20. At one point I got the HD20 working with a System that did not support it by turning the HD on at the correct point in the boot process. I no longer remember if it was using it with a much newer or a much older version.
Your earlier post mentioned the fact you still have your 128K and 512K Macs, so do you still have your HD20? I have one. It still works, despite the fact I've not yet recapped it.
@@JDW- Sadly no. At some point my parents cleaned out the basement and that one disappeared. At one point I had an SE upgraded with one of the very rare Prodigy 020 boards... I guess after thirty five years I've had my hands on many Apple memorabilia collectors items... Eventually you gotta choose between sanity and keeping everything that's got any sentimental value.
@@EricDunbar97 Ouch! A basement cleaning that trashed an Apple HD20 is a thorough cleaning indeed! In the case of my own parent's home, we were blessed with a garage that has a loft, which even to this day is still used to store both essentials and non-essentials. My Dad was asking me the other day if he could throw out an old U-control gas motor aircraft I made out of balsa wood as a teen in the 80's! :-) Sadly, my own Mac 128K acquired in 1984 and later upgraded to a Plus (after mega bucks were spent by me, let me tell you) is no long in my possession, but that is only because I sold it in 1989 to a co-worker. I also don't have my IIvx, later updated to a Quadra 650 by means of a $1,000 motherboard swap, but that's because I sold it for $1200 to my employer as a 24/7 fax server a few years after moving to Japan. At least I can take comfort the machines went to good homes. And for all I know, that Q650 is still serving faxes to this day. Japan loves FAX machines!
At 15:02 you mention the tab on the 034v and on the unidentified one. I have a D34V-22 that has that tab. There's a sticker on the other side that says "ASCO April 1985". I think if it was intended to be in an external, it has the tab. I don't remember what mine came out of.
Yes, the tab indicates the floppy drive most likely came from an external enclosure. There aren't any other changes to the drive, so you can use it internally or externally just fine, with the tab only being used in the external enclosure.
It looks like the unmarked drive is a OA-D34V-02 drive:
"There are two types of external disk drives [M0130]:
1. Serial number starts with D, made in USA. The earliest of these contain Sony OA-D34V drives. Later ones contain OA-D34V-02 drives.
2. Serial number starts with Y, made in Japan. These contain Sony OA-D34V-02 drives without export labels, since they were components within a larger unit. Production of external disk drives seems to have been moved to Japan around September 1984.*
* There is a slight difference between the two in the color of the plastic case. The plastic used for the D drives is the same as that used for early Macintosh machines. The plastic used for the Y drives is a shade lighter and does not yellow, at least not nearly as much."
Thank you for providing that detailed investigation! I had a feeling it was probably a "-02" drive. The color of the plastics of the external enclosure quite closely match my Mac 512K, but it's been many years since these machines were new, so perhaps very light yellowing through the years made them look almost the same today. In any case, THANK YOU!
@@JDW- No worries, glad to help! My Lisa 2/5 has a OA-D34A-02 (with a label on the side) and it looks identical to the one from your M0130.
Excellent video! I just got an external M0130 drive working (though I haven’t recapped it yet), and I also just got a Macintosh 512K, but the floppy drive in it does not work. It has the “click of death” issue, where the stepper motor drives the heads all the way forward, and just keeps turning and turning. I found something online that suggested it could be the track-0 sensor, and that unplugging it should make the stepper motor stop turning if the sensor is the problem, but unplugging it on my drive didn’t change anything, suggesting there is a different problem. Do you have any experience with this problem? When I first took the drive out of the Mac I found that the stepper motor was unplugged, so someone else was obviously having problems with it too.
I think I am going to get another M0130 drive so I’ll have another one to swap some parts around with. They aren’t too hard to find.
There are optical switches at the front and back. You need to check all of them. The one in back is normally related to the click-of-death. Not sure if you read this or not, but it might be helpful:
lowendmac.com/2001/vintage-mac-400k-floppy-drive-repeating-click-of-death/
JDW Thanks for the reply! Yes, I had seen that article. Good news is, I got the drive working! I soaked the sensor in alcohol, scrubbed it with a toothbrush and that did the trick! Thanks once again for the video. Your detailed instructions were great for helping me disassemble my drives!
I have exact the same problem with my Macintosh 128K (OA-D34V-22 drive). Unplugging the sensor didn't change anything. Now I'll also soak the sensor in alcohol - but one question before: Is this sensor in the back also emiting visible red light (like the both in the front) when it is working? Because mine is invisible or off/broken. (THX @JDW too! Impressive channel! :-))
No, the head sensor does not glow red like the other two. Good luck!
I never knew these floppy drives needed a recap. Do the 1.44mb ones need it too? I don't see a video about it on your channel.
Any electronic device with an electrolytic capacitor in it which is 20 years old or older needs to have those capacitors replaced. That includes mice and keyboards too. In fact, the Apple IIgs keyboard I had attached to my SE/30 was causing my SE/30 to lockup until I replaced the cap inside the keyboard! I don't have a recap video for the 1.44MB drive, but I do have one about the 800K drive, which is very similar in design: th-cam.com/video/sy6JWEerHQc/w-d-xo.html
Is there a way to test the floppy drive with a newer computer? Is there a cable adapter that you i can buy? Thanks for your help
If you mean connect this old 400K floppy drive to a computer made today, the answer is no. Remember, this is an Apple drive, not a drive made for PCs. So it's very special in terms of its operation and works with a special chip on vintage Mac motherboards. To proper test if the drive is good, you really need a Macintosh 128K or 512K or 512Ke computer
@@JDW- ok ,i was hoping that I could find a cable adapter, :( thank so much for replying have a great day 👍
You might be avle to help me with these drives, I cleaned both drives up and got them unstuck. When I hook them to my mac 128k I can see the red light on inside but when a disk is inserted nothing happens, I moved the read /write head further in the unit and when the power is applied the read/write head does moved back out to the most outer track. Any idea what might be going on? I have 12 volts entering the drive. Any help at all would be great.
The head moves only when you push on it? Or does the head move when power is applied (e.g., when you switch on the Mac's power) every time even if you do not touch the drive? Are all the little connectors properly seated in their sockets? And while probably not a cause of your problem, have you taken a magnifying glass and looked at each of the electrolytic capacitors to see if there is any kind of goo or leaked fluid at the base of each capacitor?
@@JDW- After watching your video here I sat and thought about it for a couple of hours ( yea ok) but anyway I have two drives that are acting the same way. So I looked at both of them and your video and realized what was wrong. When the disk is put inside the drive it pushes down a switch on both sides of the disk. Looking into the slot on the left side it is the write enable for the disk. On the right the switches enables the drive when pushed down. Both drives have a small piece of plastic that sticks up on the right side switch. When the disk is placed in the drive it will push down far enough I think to break a red light maybe to power on the drive.
@@stanmoonie1530 There are 3 optical switches which you need to clean with a brush to ensure they are not clogged. These switches are not the moving plastic parts but the actual sensor mounted on the PCB -- that is the part you must clean. There are 2 at the front of the drive shown at 21:20 in my video, and the third is toward the back of the drive, near the motor, and can be seen at 40:40 in my video. The sensor at back (near the motor) can cause the Click of Death, which is described in more detail here: bit.ly/3mNj8B3
@@JDW- Yes I saw that in your video. On both of these drives there is a pieve of plastic that sticks up and it is broke off on both drives. The drives came in the down position all gummed up and would not eject the disk so I would guess that the people that broke them must have pried the disk out of the drive or tried to force the disk in the drive. Thank you for the info.
Hi, I have OA-D34V-22 but after the computer is turned on and you hear a sound the big motor which moves that black plastic head pressure starts spinning and keeps doing it until the computer is turned off. Since it turns in only one direction black plastic cover starts skipping ,
Anyone knows how to fix this?
At 21:20 in the video I show the 2 optical sensors. Be sure to use a squeeze blower or similar to ensure there is no crud inside obstructing those sensors.The same holds true for the 3rd optical sensor shown to the right of the head in the scene at 40:38.
Great video. However I had to remove the "track 0" optic coupler for cleaning and it seems that I need to reposition it so that it matches my existing disks. Any thoughts?
I do not advise removing the optical sensor for cleaning due to the extreme difficulty it getting it back in proper alignment again. That is discussed in the following thread, and you can see my participation there: 68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/400k-drive-repair-guide-a-call-to-arms.25721/page-4#post-380886
@@JDW-
Advice well given-however I had already removed it (there was some dirt lodged in the slots of the optic coupler that prevented proper sensing). It was a case of "fools rush in where angles fear to tread". But as an old time electronics tech (currently retired), I can not just give up on this "project"- it is a matter of pride. The link to the service manual was gold!
I bought this Mac back in 1984 along with a PCB layout program (McCad) that allowed me to replace the blue/red tape layout process and, using the printer and a home made camera, allowed me to create the negatives from which I could etch circuit boards. The early version was simply a drafting tool similar to McDraw but was a quantum leap above my earlier methods. I still use the latest version of McCad on my current Mac but the technology has really changed where I now use Schematic capture, Autorouting and Gerber translator. I also got ride of the Ferric Chloride etching tanks, the printer, camera and darkroom.
I sold my Business three years ago but still work on smaller projects. While transferring the assets to the new owner, found the old Mac on a back shelf and brought it home. I recapped the power board and it still works with the exception of one of the two external 3.5" drives.
So the adventure continues.
I will let you know how it turns out.
@@genegillott2049 I haven't used it in decades, but I remember MacCad well. I can't remember the exact year, but I do recall that I did visit their offices in California at one time (late 1990s?) and got to meet the folks who developed it. It really was an amazing piece of software (albeit very pricey!) for the time. Regarding the floppy drive though, it will take some serious time and effort, but if you are determined, I have reasonable confidence you should be able to get it aligned at some point. I look forward to hearing how that works out. Until then, best wishes!
Just a quick note on McCad. When I bought the first version I was dealing with George. This was back in the 1980's. This past weekend I needed to use the program to generate a new PCB but was unable to run it (It needed to be re-verified) and the attempt was rejected. I emailed McCad on Sunday night and on Monday morning I had an email saying the problem was solved and that the program should now run OK. The email was from George!
@@genegillott2049 Wow! Now, that's what I call amazing support! It's also interesting to view their website and see they continue to support the Mac very well, including the newest versions of MacOS. www.mccad.com/GetComplete.html
Is there an update to the mouser cart as many items are no longer available.
I only update Mouser Carts when kind people such as yourself alert me to an issue. But it's important to bear in mind that Mouser is notorious for allowing parts to go out of stock. What's in stock one day will be out the next! With that said, I don't have time right now to substitute parts in that cart, but I will try to make time for that later today. Sorry for the trouble. Wish the executives at Mouser would better manager their supply chain and inventory levels.
@@JDW- thank you so much. Any help would be great. From what I hear many of the small low profile caps are not made anymore and will not be available. I have been looking all over for weeks for replacements. I have 3 drives I want to fix. Thanks again for the great work to help others.
@@willjacobs1432 Both carts are now updated. All backordered/discontinued capacitors have been replaced. Happy recapping!
Hello JDW, Radial Leaded 50volts 1uF and Radial Leaded GENERAL PURPOSE 5MM shows as out of stock on Mouser, would you please help us with an updated cart? also got any recommendation on what else to check on a floppy drive 400k that was working fine, and after reading a couple of disks it stopped working? eject mechanism works ok, floppies are not detected.
I spent quite a long time looking for you, but I am very sorry to say Mouser has no 0.47uF aluminum electrolytic caps that will fit. Everything is on order. And the replacement for the 1uF cap isn't so great as the original cap I had before. So you have two choices: (1) Go to Digikey and search for the part numbers in my Mouser Cart and hope they are in stock there (sorry, I have no time to do that), or (2) take a pair of calipers and measure how much space your drive has available to see if the following two TANTALUM caps will fit in terms of Diameter, Height and Lead Spacing:
• 0.47uF: www.mouser.jp/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/199D474X9035A1V1E3?qs=1Tf3zEaA7304pK6qlGlNdw%3D%3D
• 1uF: www.mouser.jp/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/199D105X9035A2B1E3?qs=ZIkkZGOLt6W4WGNYgfbnjw%3D%3D
Solid Tantalum caps are much, MUCH better than electrolytic caps, but I just don't know if they will fit. As I recall, it only enough width for a 4mm in diameter cap. These tantalum caps are 4.4mm in diameter. So they might just fit, but again, you absolutely must measure with calipers to be sure. Also, these tantalum caps have a 2.54mm lead spacing, compared to 1.5mm for the stock caps. So if the end up sitting on their legs at all, they might be too high, because the height is already 7.11mm.
I'm really very sorry I cannot do more, but I've been overwhelmed with work all this month. No time for any video work. In fact, I'm typing this at the office right now. But please feel free to report back about what you decided to do, as your solution may benefit others who read our dialog here.
@@JDW- Thanks for your time again, I have ordered the tantalum caps and will let you know if they fit on the board.
@@ZoneFMS I think it's a good decision because those tantalums are so much better than electrolytic. They will probably fit. I just didn't want to give you or anyone else a 100% "guarantee" because I've never tried them. But I do look forward to hearing back from you when you try them. Thank you!
Apart from preventive maintenance, are there other ways this recap may be useful in your opinion?
Replacing the caps also ensures the controller boards in the drive have stable power. As electrolytic capacitors age they slowly become more like a resistor and capacitance drops. That’s especially true if they have been in use for countless hours in a hot environment like a fanless Macintosh 128k or 512k. The purpose of many of these caps is to ensure there are no temporarily dips in the power supplied to the drive.
Sigh. I still have both our Mac 128 and Mac 512 as bookends in a shelf. The 128 only partially turns on and the 512 doesn't at all. The 128 goes straight to an error pattern that itself is flawed, leading me to believe that there's corrosion or something else going on. I know they're worth a fair penny if sold to a collector but I can't bear to part with them since they played such a central role in my academic career.
You might be able to resolve the problem with a recap of the Analog / Power Supply board. My video on that is here: th-cam.com/video/Ng8F_QVgaTc/w-d-xo.html
I still have this computer with external drive. I doubt I will ever get rid of it. However, I have a bunch of Mac formatted disks from years ago, containing documents that I would like to utilize now. What would be the most efficient way of recovering the Mac documents, and transferring them to my Windows computer?
It's complicated. First, if you have a Macintosh Plus with sufficient RAM to run System 7.x and a rare SCSI-to-Ethernet Adapter, then using FTP to transfer files to/from your Mac is the way to go. Transmit is a great FTP client that will get the job done: macintoshgarden.org/apps/transmit-17
• SCSI to Ethernet: www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_net.html#scsi
But if you have a 128K or 512K or 512Ke, I see 3 different approaches you could take, although (2) below is probably the most realistic for you:
1. If you have a Mac that can run MacOS X Tiger: bit.ly/3aq2MZ2
or
2. Use Mini vMac (Windows version, free) & ExportFl (free) with a FloppyEMU (purchase required):
• Mini vMac Download: bit.ly/3iCZQLz
• ExportFl Download: bit.ly/3anMAHN
• FloppyEMU: bit.ly/3h1M1Gs
NOTE: ExportFL is an app used inside Mini vMac and would be used on your Windows PC to move files out of the Mini vMac environment and onto your PC.
or
3. If you have a Mac 512Ke with a SCSI add-on board, you could theoretically use a SCSI2SD (I don't own one and have not tried it, which is why I say "theoretically") to copy files off your Mac and then connect to your PC to transfer those files with the help of a software app on your PC that can read HFS drives.
• Add-on SCSI info: macgui.com/news/article.php?t=471
• SCSI2SD: bit.ly/2FnVJVy
• HFS apps for the PC: bit.ly/2PN5Tkq
Here's how to deal with old MacWrite files: lowendmac.com/2008/tales-of-old-mac-data-retrieval/#macwrite
Lastly, you might find this video useful: th-cam.com/video/WobgxVlxt8Y/w-d-xo.html
@@JDW- Thanks for the response. Man, that's complicated. Links are informative, especially the first. I take it the late model Mac operating systems will not read a floppy from a new drive? or possibly there is no port to plug a drive into? Perhaps I should just find a mail-order technical lab to glean the documents off the floppies. FTP is beyond me.
@@ARIZJOE A technical lab like DriveSavers will charge too much money. Buying a FloppyEMU (they anticipate having new stock at the end of August) would be cheaper, plus you get the huge benefit of running all kinds of disk images from it! In fact, it has HD20 mode, which allows you to create a hard disk of sorts on the FloppyEMU. I have one that is over 200MB. You can put multiple drives on the FloppyEMU's SD card too. It's nice because if you want to download old Mac software from Macintosh Garden, many come in a disk image format compatible with the FloppyEMU. You just use your modern computer to copy those disk images onto the SD card, then put the SD inside the FloppyEMU, connect to your Mac, power on your Mac, and then you can either boot from a real floppy or a virtual floppy off the FloppyEMU. And again, the FloppyEMU setup will allow you to move files to a modern Mac or a Windows PC via that SD card in combination with Mini vMac and ExportFL.
Great video! So this is a bit bizarre, but I just cracked open my 512k to confirm, and it's all original with the 64k '-A' ROMs, but it originally had a '-22' drive in there! When I got it, I swapped drives with an external one, since the original internal drive wasn't working, and I wanted a working drive in there. So now I have a 512k with a working drive originally from an external drive (no label), and the external drive with the original drive from the 512k (labelled -22) that doesn't work. The -22 drive just attempts to calibrate (3 distinct RPMs) then rejects right away.
I also have a third unlabelled external drive I bought later, I just tried that one and that produces the 0F0064 error you mentioned.
Still looking for a guide on how to realign my two non-working drives using an oscilloscope. For some reason I always assumed that these things just needed alignment to work, but I guess there might be other issues as well. I've lubed them all and verified the felt pads were there and the read heads are clean.
I'll add that my 512k is 37th week of 1984, so a fairly early one.
Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience. It's at times like this spare parts come in very handy. I've found some very oddball 400K drives that work when you least expect and then suddenly don't work when you think they should. I've adjusted drives only to find they didn't work until I swapped out the ROMs. By having either 64K-B or 128K ROMs to test, you can tell right away if your drive really needs adjustment or not. I think this is important because adjusting the drive is very fiddly and time consuming work. You are basically moving parts only a fraction of a millimeter at a time to get it back into adjustment. But if the root problem is in fact some incompatibility with the ROMs, then attempts at adjusting the drive may actually put it out of adjustment because that wasn't the root problem. All said, if you can lay your hands on 64K-B and/or 128K ROMs, I highly recommend that test before doing any adjustments. And when it comes time to doing adjustments, I should add that it can be done without a scope. It's a matter of making multiple teensy tiny position changes of a particular part while repeatedly testing until at long last the drive starts working again (assuming no issues with the ROM).
@@JDW- I attempted adjusting one of these drives using the no-scope method you mentioned about a year ago. Three hours of slowly escalating frustration, and the drive still ended up flaky at best! It did occasionally read, so it shouldn’t be a ROM issue. I’d much prefer the oscilloscope method for my second attempt, since I have access to one. I just need to find a repair guide that assumes an oscilloscope somewhere.
@@vkoskiv I've looked for that guide. It doesn't exist. Sony had special test equipment to calibrate these drives, which went far beyond a mere oscilloscope. By the way, I've had some drives not work at all, even after a basic head cleaning. I recapped, cleaned and adjusted the drive, but still no dice. I then put the head under a microscope and found gunk still stuck to it! I then took a swab and 99% ISO alcohol and cleaned that head about 5 times. Another look under the microscope showed it clean. I then tested the drive and it worked! So sometimes what you least expect is ultimate the fix, and that truth applies to both 400K and 800K drives too.
@@JDW- I tried running the Apple internal SonyTest software, but that was - as the name suggests - built for testing. I didn't find any calibration functionality in there. I think I'll do another pass of cleaning and blind adjustment of the head and see if I could get it working. I would prefer to have the original drive in the Mac instead of this swapped arrangement.
My 128k Mac is missing the internal 400k floppy. Can I disassemble an external 400k floppy and install it into the 128k Mac? Will it work?
I don't want to give you a 100% guarantee on that because in the past I've had an especially fiddly 400K drive that would only work in its external enclosure and not inside the Mac for reasons I don't fully understand. But you absolutely need to re-watch 12:43 because if you have the oldest Revision-A ROMs in your Mac, then whether the external drive mechanism would work inside the Mac or not would depend on the model number of the drive printed on its label.
Hi is there a chance to get the instructions how to make 400/800k floppies? Thank you
Don't use the commonly available 1.44MB disks because their magnetic field is not the same as 400K/800K disks You can often format a 400K disk to be 800K. It's just that the 400K disks are only certified for a single side. 800K uses both sides. But you can safely format 800K disks as 800K or 400K. Never format 400K or 800K disks as 1.4MB disks though. Bear in mind that a 400K drive cannot format disks as 800K, obviously. But an 800K drive can format as 400K or 800K. Just boot your vintage Mac in System 7 or lower, then insert your floppy into a working drive. If it has never been formatted, you will be asked if you want to Initialize it, and click Yes. But if it has data on it, then it might mount on the Desktop. And if you want to format it, just click the Special menu (in System 6) and choose Erase Disk. You can then choose 400K or 800K if your drive is 800K. Now if you want to COPY disks, then you can either drag one atop another, or you can use something like Copy II Mac 7.2 (see Macintosh Garden) to copy copy-protected disks. You will need to consult the Copy II Mac's "Backup List" to see what special settings are required to copy certain software.
@@JDW- Thank you for quick answer - absolutely gorgeous. I was thinking how to make system disk bootable on Macintosh 128k? For example System 2.0 without a System 2.0 floppy disk. Possible to use BlueSCSI 1.1? Thank you
You can download a disk image with System 2.0 and Finder 1.1 from Macintosh Garden here: macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-2x
I also highly recommend you buy a FloppyEMU because it can really help you out in a pinch, such as when you have no physical floppy disks at all, or when your floppy drive doesn't read/write well for some reason. It's easy to use. You can just download and decompress disk images from Macintosh Garden, copy the images to the FloppyEMU's SD card using a modern computer, then attach the FloppyEMU to your vintage Mac with the power power, then power on and choose the disk image you want using the buttons and LCD. www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/
You can also buy preformatted 400K disks on EBAY that are bootable. Here's one with System 2.0 (Finder version not specified, so please ask the seller): www.ebay.com/itm/225179778386
And here's another seller of such disks: www.ebay.com/itm/353378805901
But even if you buy real bootable floppies from EBAY, I still advise buying a FloppyEMU. It's worth it!
Great videos my friend!!! I am a fresh owner of a Macintosh 128k. It needs some work done unfortunately. When I insert the system disk I get error 0f0004 and a sad Mac face and it doesn't eject it either. On the other hand, the same system disk gets rejected and ejected on a Macintosh plus. Would you know what is going on? Also, on the display there are horizontal lines and they kind of face away if I adjust the brightness to a lower level. What do you think it could be? I hope nothing to do with the main board but only analog board issues.. Thank you so much and keep up the great work!
Thank you for your kind words. The lines on the display when you max out the brightness are nothing to worry about. It’s normal. You just need to reduce the screen brightness to eliminate them.
I cannot say if your floppy disk is good or bad even though it doesn’t work on two different machines. That disk simply could be incompatible with a Plus whereas it might work on 128K machine. You really would need to test other disks to be sure.
Sad Mac error codes occurring when you insert a floppy disk into a 400K floppy drive can indicate a problem with the drive or it’s ribbon cable. You need a gray cable with a red stripe.
It could also be a floppy drive model incompatibility with the Mac’s ROM version, as described in detail here:
bit.ly/30hYoIm
Lastly, it could be there’s nothing wrong with your ribbon cable or drive or drive version and ROM version. It could be the wrong System file combined with the wrong Finder version on the disk itself.
I highly recommend the FloppyEMU to help diagnose problems and make your vintage Mac hobby more fun:
www.bigmessowires.com/shop/product/floppy-emu-model-b/
It seems to be out of stock right now, so you’ll need to email the owner, Steve, to get more specifics on when it can ship.
I hope this helps!
Thanks for answering and so promptly too!
I tried a floppy emu but it isn’t mine, it was from the guy who sold me the unit. The unit boots with the floppy emu. I’d like to get it to boot from the floppy though. So the lines are normal? It looks weird the display. It doesn’t look too normal honestly, hard to explain I should send a video maybe or a picture. I looked up online and the 0F0004 error seems to be related with the voltage adjustment on the analog board. I read I should turn it to zero and then adjust it until I measure 5v on the video connector PIN number 6, not sure which connector that is. After seeing your video about discharging the crt I’m a bit paranoid touching the whole analog board. From which part of the world are you? If you were in australia I’d love to send you this analog board for a refurbishment, I am afraid I would damage it if I do the recapping myself. Thanks again!
I’m located in Japan so it’s probably not cost-effective to ship anything to me. If you upload photos or a video, feel free to post the link in the comments. I don’t block links. But I’m not sure it’s a voltage problem because if it was a voltage problem then why would your FloppyEMU boot your machine so perfectly? I do recommend measuring the voltages at the floppy disk external connector, but you will need a digital multi meter to do that.
JDW I will try to post when I get some time to work on it.
It could be the floppy drive not reading, who knows. What voltages should I measure? I might take it apart and check it, regardless.
I’m more concerned about those lines and the corrosion on the board. I might swap the boards between the 128k and the plus. The board on the plus looks better but someone rebuilt a track with a wire, not a fine job really.
The speaker on the 128k is bridged with two cables to a new speaker, I assume the original speaker doesn’t work. It’s a bit messed up.. any chance to contact you directly maybe? If you don’t mind obviously
If you want to contact me privately, just click on my JDW name, which will take you to my channel. Then click the About tab and you’ll find how to send me an email from that page.
As to measuring the voltages at the external floppy disk connector, you just put the black probe of your meter into one of the bolt holes, which are ground, and then insert a paperclip individually into the female terminals of that connector and touch your red probe to that paper clip to read the individual voltages. You will see 5 V and 12 V, among other voltages in that connector. So long as it’s above 4.7V or above 12.0 V, voltages are fine.
Your link for "Soldering iron with °F-only LCD & Solder Kit (80W, cheap!)" shows as not currently available at Amazon. I guess that's no surprise given that your video was posted 3 years ago. I bought the "Soldering Station (120W, ESD safe)" instead using your link. My old Weller WTCPS soldering station no longer seems to be up the task of dealing with the circuit boards I'm working with. I'm also having problems finding replacement tips, so a new station seems to be in order. Thanks for the referral.
Thank you for letting me know. I swapped out the link for the 80W iron just now, for people who are still in need of a very cheap solution.
But honestly, the 120W soldering station you purchased is the better product. Arguably, there are some sold by HAKKO which are better still, but pricing for a basic HAKKO FX888D is about $155, which means you could buy 2 of the "Soldering Station (120W, ESD safe)" units you bought, and still have money left over. For people who solder something every few days, maybe a quality Hakko station is worth the higher price. But if you only solder a few times a month, something more economical like you purchased works just fine. Besides, as you solder more over time, you will also find that other soldering tools are useful, such as a $50 hot air station. You eventually may even need a desoldering gun instead of a wick, and it's usually at that point you should consider a better quality device, like a Hakko FR-301. The reason why is because desoldering is much harder than soldering, and ground planes sink a lot of heat, so having a powerful gun like the FR-301 is important. Unfortunately, the FR-301 is rather pricey at just over US$300 on Amazon.
Wasn't it cmd-shift-1 and 2 to eject these disk drives ?
Yes, thank you for reminding me. Shift-CMD-1 ejects the INTERNAL disk while Shift-CMD-2 ejects the EXTERNAL.
And cmd-shift-3 for pict screenshot. Dunno how low a Finder/System version you can get this with
@@1BitFeverDreams I just tested the eject shortcuts with System 0.97 and it works. System 3.3 and Finder 5.1 also work.
I recently repaired a 128K Mac with a bad RAM chip - this unit has a drive with the model # OA-D34V-01 in it - i.imgur.com/gfvxFz4.jpg, so there's another model # for your list. :) (The interior of the case was also missing all the signatures, which is also considered weird apparently...)
Thank you for the new information about model # OA-D34V-01. Very interesting! Thanks for the photo too. That stock grease is caked on there, I see!
When you reopen that Mac in the future, I would love to see a photo of the inside of the back case showing the lack of signatures. I've seen that on later model Mac back cases, but never on a 128K. Even the prototype cases I've seen had the signatures, although they lacked the metallic gray RF shield coating over the signatures.
Perhaps I missed the fact: how many external floppies (or floppies in total) could you have?
Two. Because there is only 1 floppy drive port on the back of the Mac, and because there is no pass-thru port on floppy drives, you can only have 1 external floppy drive. However, the Apple HD20 hard disk plugs into the floppy drive port on the Mac and it offers a port on the back so you can connect either an external floppy drive or another HD20.
@@JDW- Some do have a pass through connector, e.g. seen here de.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+3.5+Drive+External+Floppy+Drive+Teardown/92324 (the "Apple 3.5'' drive, A9M0106), but A2Online says "the daisy chain connector should only be used when the drive is used with an Apple II." (apple2online.com/web_documents/apple_floppy_disk_drives.pdf). OTOH, Wikipedia mentions “The Macintosh could only support one external drive, limiting the number of floppy disks mounted at once to two, but both Apple and third party manufacturers developed external hard drives that connected to the Mac's floppy disk port, which had pass-through ports to accommodate daisy-chaining the external disk drive. Apple's Hard Disk 20 could accommodate an additional daisy-chained hard drive as well as an external floppy disk.“ (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_External_Disk_Drive). Which would mean THREE floppy connector devices at once. I have the feeling this needs more thorough investigation.
@ Correct. You don't want to daisy chain that 800K drive on a Mac. That's definitely ONLY for the Apple II series. And yes, you can connect Apple's HD20 and then connect a 400K drive to the HD20's pass-thru floppy connector, giving you a total of two 400K floppy drives and one 20MB hard disk -- all as slow as any 400K floppy disk! :-)
After Fixing a Mac 128K Logicboard and Analog board, I focus on the 400K Floppy drive. After Recap, lubrication and assembly. I could boot from it, initialize disks, copy files, and eject perfectly but I have a question regarding the behavior at power on without a Floppy on the drive.
If I power the Mac 128K, the disk spins, but keep trying to eject but no floppy on the drive. If I put a floppy in, everything behaves normally. This is a Mac 128K with -A ROMS.
The question is, normal behavior or not?
Thank you for your feedback. "Constantly trying to eject" is NOT normal behavior. As I mention at 12:44 though, mismatched ROMs and 400K drives will result only in a Sad Mac, not a constant eject problem. Most likely, one of the black plastic IR sensors is dirty or otherwise blocked. If you watch from 21:45, you will see me remove a plastic piece from the middle of one of those IR sensors (aka "optical sensors"). That moving plastic piece must be removed for inspection and cleaning. Also, that IR sensor near the front of the drive detects whether or not a disk is inserted. A different IR sensor pertains to the eject mechanism. I would suggest you inspect and clean all the IR sensors, then test again. If the problem is gone, you're done. If the problem is not solved, it could be anything from a jammed mechanical part that requires lubrication, to a fault on the circuit board. But when investigating problems like that, it's often helpful to have more than one vintage Mac in which to test, to ensure you can rule out issues possibly caused by the Mac itself. I don't think the Mac is causing the problem in your case. I am just trying to speculate "what ifs" right now, assuming your IR Sensor cleaning doesn't work. I suspect it will though as such has worked for me in the past.
@@JDW- Thanks for your reply, regarding the black Sensor, I cleaned the sensor and nothing is in the middle of it. The behavior is only when no disk is inserted. Any other Idea?
@@user-xp8yl5pk7w When you said there is "nothing in the middle of it," I assume you mean there is no dirt there, but if you mean there is no plastic piece there, it's a problem. Because as you can see in my video, there must be a moving piece of plastic in the middle part of that sensor. If you have no dirty and you also have the correct piece of plastic (which slides) in the middle of your sensor, and if you have indeed inspected and cleaned all the IR sensors, not just that one, then like I said in my previous reply, the problem could be related to something frozen up on the drive. Your opening post indicates you fully cleaned and lubed the drive, that would point to another problem. But those problems are rare. In the vast majority of cases, "constant ejection" problems pertain to the optical sensors. The other problems are problems indeed because they pertain to either the ejection motor or the circuit board itself. And that's why I said in my previous reply that having another Mac of the same type is useful, so you can try the drive in that other Mac to see if it has the same problem, and if it does, then you know the problem is absolutely on the drive, and the problem has nothing to do with the Mac at all.
@@JDW- Yes no dirt, sprint is working and the plastic arm is there moving perfectly. Maybe the Sensor is bad... The question will be if I can get a replacement, part. The one on the left must be the issue.
@@user-xp8yl5pk7w Your best option is to find a cheap or free junk 400K drive for the purpose of using its parts. Most likely, the junk drive is just mechanically frozen and has a good circuit board and sensors. In fact, if you had such a drive, you could swap the PCB to see if that made a change. If not, you could then resort to swapping only that one IR sensor. I do this sort of thing myself. I usually have working devices and then junk devices as spare parts. I know this isn’t the type of fast solution you are seeking, but I’m afraid that you’ve already tried cleaning the sensor and found that didn't work, and you’ve cleaned and lubed the drive itself, which is why the only explanation for the continued troubles must be either a bad sensor or something wrong on the circuit board.
that drive at the start sounded so sad
That, my friend, is the distinct purr of a fully functional SONY 400K floppy drive mechanism. It holds a lot of nostalgia for me because my first home computer was the 128K in 1984 when I was 13. The newer 800K and 1.44MB floppy drives do not make that sound.
@@JDW- I know but it sounded lower pitched than usual to me
Don't bend the legs! If you even need to remove the component, you can end up messing up the board. Otherwise great video.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm afraid I don't follow. If you are saying, "do not bend the legs of the capacitor to keep the capacitor from falling out while you solder it in," then I would disagree that any kind of bend is bad, insofar as the angle at which you see me bend the legs in my video is not 90°. Believe me, I've seen those 90° bends, where the lead is parallel with the PCB, and desoldering those takes more effort, to be sure! But since my bends were not parallel with the board, desoldering isn't as difficult as you may think.