Joint compound (also known as drywall compound, drywall mud, joint cement or mastic) is a white powder of primarily gypsum dust mixed with water to form a paste the consistency of cake frosting, which is spread onto drywall and sanded after dry to create a seamless base for paint on walls and ceilings.
Thank you for posting this. Doing this art in your style has lifted my depression and beautified my home. You are so generous to share your knowledge and talent. 🙏
Hi Nicolina, in Australia, it is known as "Joint Compound" in powder or already mixed putty. Also there are fillers, .Multipurpose Gap Fillers", for walls, timbers etc. Putty for wall repair… Many different brands. Selleys Spakfilla Rapid is a ready-mixed lightweight filler that needs just one application. Thanks for all the tips, and thanks for sharing so much with us.
You're right that there is a difference between spackle and joint-compound (drywall mud - it got that name because that's what its consistency is like). You mentioned some of the differences already. Essentially they do have the same gypsum base but drywall mud has limestone (plus other materials such as clay, mica, perlite, and starch), and is thinner -- while spackle is gypsum (usually) plus binding agent(s) ( it also contains fine aggregate with sodium silicate and an adhesive;) -- and is thicker. Spaackle can also have Vinyl, acrylic, or epoxy instead of gypsum, but those will be marked as such. Spackle drys much quicker; although, there are quick-set joint-compound too, but it's still not as quick as spackle. Using spackle , it is easier to use to fill up large cracks. However, while one can use drywall mud instead of spackle for wall repair, no one would use spackle the way dry wall mud is used on new construction, it wouldn't be suitable for it. Both are readily available at big-box DIY stores in North America, but in some locations "spackle" is called by other (vendor specific) names.
@@kellygowan3683 Spackle is better, absolutely; put simply it has more bod(additives and aggregate for strength), and doesn't shrink as much when the water in it evaporates. While people can experiment with drywall mud by adding plaster to it or glue binders, why reinvent the wheel -- unless there's no choice.
Great info mate. I have a question I use wall putty, white glue and water for my wall art pieces(also it looks perfect) so is it ok to use these only or i should have try the mathod on video?
Uh don’t do plaster on canvas unless the canvas isn’t primed. Then your mixtures need to be flexible with glue rabbit or Elmer’s strong glue. If your Plaster is to be smooth and flat, only apply to walls or wood supports . If you are stiffening fabrics or canvas you can vary your mixes.
@nicolinasavmarker hi. So it means that you add Gesso instead of spackle putty to plaster mixture ? Pl correct me if I am wrong. ... would love to know. This is a very good diy.
Hey thanks a lot for this, brilliant! A few questions - if you build layers, how long do you wait till a layer is dry to start with the next one? What is the max thickness? So this mix guarantees the 3d sculpture will not fall of the canva? Or do you use anything different for the very first layer? Appreciate your answer!
Hello Sasha! Thank you so much :D Always around 12-24h depending on how thick the layers are. Hm thats hard to answer to, since it depends on the ingrediens , ratio and how hot your environment are (to warm = cracking). But around 1/2 cm? If you´re going to apply several layers than cracks in between doesnt matter that match :) Mine has never fell off, no I dont use anyting else for the first layer (not another medium). I almost always creates 3D art and not "only" textured art, so my first layer is plaster bandages or fabric. Hope that will give u answers, in my other videos u will see me create with this mixture :)
Thank you so much ❤ I want to ask a question please, what material (like a sealer) should I put on the finished piece so it will be permanently resist to water and heat ... or this mixture is sufficient and nothing can be added after finishing the piece, thank you ❤
Thanks for sharing :) one question! After making your mix with color and it’s all ready to go, if stored in a small container, how long will it stay good? Or will it harden?
Hi and thank you for your content. Is it true that if you don't move fast with plaster/water and glue, it can harden vey fast and all your work is lost? I have tried only with plaster powder and water and it got hard so fast, i couldn't save any of it. It became crumbly and with no chance to be saved. I tried adding water again but the texture remained crumbly and hard. Could have been the glue missing from the equation? Thank you!!
Hello! No worries and thank you for watching and chatting :) Yes plaster is super fast!! That is way I don´t like to work with it alone. If u watched the tutorial with sound u heared me say "the main star ingredient" about spackle/wall filler, and also that is why my mixture doesn´t set while I´m working with it :D So I would say it is spackle/wallf filler/joint compound that is missing from the equation ❤
HEi! Jeg har sett på den fine informative videon din :) Jeg er helt ny til bruk av gips. Nå skal jeg til å lage en drage.. og det jeg lurer på : vil det fungere å bruke din metode for å blande gipsmassen, men tynnere, for så dyppe strimler av tynt bomullstyg i dette? Å kjøpe gipsbandasjer/ ruller er ganske dyrt, og jeg trenger ganske mye. Hvordan ville du gjort dette? Mvh Mette Friid i Norge. :)
I just realized while open the gesso box, that it was not white, but black! Can I quit the gesso part? it will take me some weeks to order online before it arrives in Greece where I stay. Thank you for answering me:)
Hey girlfriend, brilliant work. Thanks for sharing. Would it be too much to ask for color recipe tutorial? I saw you added orange and yellow but couldn't make out the 3rd color.
Thank you so much! 😃😃 The beige one? I usually use red, yellow, a little bit of green (more green = cooler toned beige) and tiny amount of black 😊 U can also use brown + yellow/red/green
Hello, may I know why did you add plaster and water? What's the difference if you just use a filler, texture paste, and white acrylic paint? I've seen others use only 3 materials for their mixture. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you so much ❤️
Hello Katrina! :) I´ve several answers to your questions but the main answer is that this is my mixture, it isn´t exactly like everyone else is using :) In the video I also explain that plaster adds to the creaminess and reinforcement and that water thins it out and works as a solvent. And my plan for this mixture is to make it light to medium thick (because the project I was making it for require that concistensy). Did u watched it with sound? Even do my english is quirky lol :D Also said that this is a budget friendly mix, texture paste is an art supply and can cost a lot more than my ingredients. One thing I didn´t said is that I almost always sand and polish my art pieces, that is easier if the mix doesn´t only contain filler/texture paste/acrylics :) I build 3D layers with my mixture, I don´t do textured art that much (U know when u apply and draw rainbows etc) So I need this kind of ingredients. Hope this answers to all of your questions! Thank you so much for watching and chatting with me ❤❤
Hi! I have a question about gesso. Is it primer - like You used it on the end of making 3d canvas, or it's different product? I am trying to find different - cheaper one on the internet, but I am not sure about differents between gesso (here on this viedo) and gesso primer..? HELP :(
I use wood glue but I know other artists who use school glue :) Oh it depends, on how thick your layers are and how hot/cold your room is. But I would leave it for at least 12-24h, more a day
I follow you everywhere ❤ Do you buy all your supplies online? We are moving to Sweden next year and I’ve just started experimenting with art but don’t want to give it up. I’ve got so many questions for you. We going to Stockholm… does the weather affect your art? (The super cold months?)
Hello! Thank you so much for your support!! Oh yeey welcome :D No I buy my spackle from hardware stores, spackle is super easy to find here in Stockholm. But the rest is online, many of the supplies can u find in stores. I´m just lazy so I like to order online lol. No it´s rather the "hot" summers since the mixture cracks easier when it´s hot ❤❤
Awesome tutorial and art works ! I have a question for you Nicolina....I did use metal mesh on a bigger canvas with two layers of plaster bandages. First one layer, and after a week a second layer. And it dried good. But after the second layer the work has some yellow, spread spots on the dried bandages....Does it matter? I am now ready for putting on your mixture. Thanks for answering!
Hi! It happened to me too because of the staples that I used, they rusted. But after I applied the mixture it went good, I can't see it any longer. Next time I'll use galvanised ones so it won't happen. Cheers!
@@oanamitroi6385 🙂Thanks for responding to me Oana Mitroi. I was also wondering if the metal mesh I used is not galvanised, as the staples is on the backside of the canvas and there is no rust coming through. I will use a mesh that is not metal. Plastic mesh can make the same mountain peaks
I'm a bit confused as the first item does it come mixed or you prepare it before, ( I mean the paste) spakle, is it the one we usualy use before painting the wall? Please answer me as I'll be working on something and have to be hang on wall and afraid it will crack later😢
Hi quick question! I tried the mixture on a very large canvas and it’s been around 8 hours and is still wet…what can I fix so my second layer hardens the way yours did?
I think I said in the video that I needed that batch to be thinner, for the project I was working on at that time. I also said/wrote that you can make the mixture thicker by adding more spackle/wall filler 😊
th-cam.com/video/93IoBK4ByVI/w-d-xo.html To the video who has voice over (technical problems with this one)
Joint compound (also known as drywall compound, drywall mud, joint cement or mastic) is a white powder of primarily gypsum dust mixed with water to form a paste the consistency of cake frosting, which is spread onto drywall and sanded after dry to create a seamless base for paint on walls and ceilings.
Thank you for posting this. Doing this art in your style has lifted my depression and beautified my home. You are so generous to share your knowledge and talent. 🙏
Hi Nicolina, in Australia, it is known as "Joint Compound" in powder or already mixed putty. Also there are fillers, .Multipurpose Gap Fillers", for walls, timbers etc.
Putty for wall repair…
Many different brands.
Selleys Spakfilla Rapid is a ready-mixed lightweight filler that needs just one application.
Thanks for all the tips, and thanks for sharing so much with us.
You are amazing!! 🙏🏼💖🙏🏼💖🙏🏼
You’re an Angel. Thank you for your kindness in sharing! ❤
Thank you so much for your support!! :D ❤
Why no sound?
Thought something went wrong with my phone! I’ve this video previously and it had the sound, maybe a bug in TH-cam
This is an awesome tutorial for a beginner like me. Thank you so much 😊
Yeey so happy to hear! Thanks :))
just what I need for my own project. This should work for using piping bags too.
You're right that there is a difference between spackle and joint-compound (drywall mud - it got that name because that's what its consistency is like). You mentioned some of the differences already.
Essentially they do have the same gypsum base but drywall mud has limestone (plus other materials such as clay, mica, perlite, and starch), and is thinner -- while spackle is gypsum (usually) plus binding agent(s) ( it also contains fine aggregate with sodium silicate and an adhesive;) -- and is thicker. Spaackle can also have Vinyl, acrylic, or epoxy instead of gypsum, but those will be marked as such.
Spackle drys much quicker; although, there are quick-set joint-compound too, but it's still not as quick as spackle.
Using spackle , it is easier to use to fill up large cracks. However, while one can use drywall mud instead of spackle for wall repair, no one would use spackle the way dry wall mud is used on new construction, it wouldn't be suitable for it.
Both are readily available at big-box DIY stores in North America, but in some locations "spackle" is called by other (vendor specific) names.
With this great additional info I’m wondering if the spackle she uses is then better than the joint compound? Your thoughts?
@@kellygowan3683 Spackle is better, absolutely; put simply it has more bod(additives and aggregate for strength), and doesn't shrink as much when the water in it evaporates. While people can experiment with drywall mud by adding plaster to it or glue binders, why reinvent the wheel -- unless there's no choice.
Great info mate. I have a question I use wall putty, white glue and water for my wall art pieces(also it looks perfect) so is it ok to use these only or i should have try the mathod on video?
Thank you for sharing. Will be finally trying it out tomorrow ❤
No problem, thank you for your support ❤
I used a form of your recipe. My painting came out exactly how I invisioned it.
Muy buen trabajo
Thank you.. you are truely the best
Thanks so much for sharing.
No problem! 😊🫶🏼
Thank you for this tutortial. It was very simple and easy
Yeey the goal! Thanks :)
I tried just plaster paris with water on canvas and material and it all crumbled, so I defo going to try this, thank you so much 🤩👍🏼😘
Yees do it! No problem ❤
@@nicolinasavmarker yes it's working thanking you 💗
Uh don’t do plaster on canvas unless the canvas isn’t primed. Then your mixtures need to be flexible with glue rabbit or Elmer’s strong glue. If your Plaster is to be smooth and flat, only apply to walls or wood supports . If you are stiffening fabrics or canvas you can vary your mixes.
Wow! Your works look so exiting!
You're a rock star love! Thank you so very much!
Yeey thank you so much! 🙏🏽😃
Thank you so much! This was exactly what I was looking for and you are so nice to listen to!
Oh so kind, thank you so much for your support 😊🫶🏼
This is great!! Thank you so much for the clean up tips as well!! 😊
Thank you so much! :D
Thank you for sharing❤💯
No worries! 🥰❤️
Thank you!
No worries! ❤
This was great, will be trying tomorrow.
Wonderful video - thank you very much
Thank you so much! :D
Thank you for doing this!!!
If you wanted to make mix with colour, you you replace acrylic white with a mix of colours to get final result?
Thanks
thank you so much for sharing this information! I have been patiently waiting for this video!!!! 💜💜💜
No problem! :D Yees I know, it took some time! School and work came in between ❤❤
Oh thank u ❤
No worries 😃❤️
One question. Did you use Guesso and acrylic paint only as your premium edition or did you add Gesso to the plaster mix?
Gesso was only in the premium edition, since the other original one is more budget friendly
@nicolinasavmarker hi. So it means that you add Gesso instead of spackle putty to plaster mixture ? Pl correct me if I am wrong. ... would love to know. This is a very good diy.
I think she just means that its an added ingrediant to make it creamier if im not mistaken
Thanks so much for this.
No problem! ❤
Bravo 👏
Keep going ❤
Thanks for your great efforts
Thank you so much for your support and kind words ❤❤
Hey thanks a lot for this, brilliant!
A few questions - if you build layers, how long do you wait till a layer is dry to start with the next one? What is the max thickness?
So this mix guarantees the 3d sculpture will not fall of the canva? Or do you use anything different for the very first layer?
Appreciate your answer!
She didnt answer to you. I am waiting for it. Good question. ❤
Hello Sasha! Thank you so much :D
Always around 12-24h depending on how thick the layers are. Hm thats hard to answer to, since it depends on the ingrediens , ratio and how hot your environment are (to warm = cracking). But around 1/2 cm? If you´re going to apply several layers than cracks in between doesnt matter that match :)
Mine has never fell off, no I dont use anyting else for the first layer (not another medium). I almost always creates 3D art and not "only" textured art, so my first layer is plaster bandages or fabric. Hope that will give u answers, in my other videos u will see me create with this mixture :)
thank you so much for sharing!
My pleasure :)
Thanks for sharing such great info
Keep it up :)
Yeey thank you so much! :D
Thanks for the tutorial! Do you think this product would withstand humidity fluctuation without cracking if I hung the painting up in the bathroom?
Plaster is like a rock
Thank you
No problem 😊
If your mixture does crack. Do you just keep adding more layers to cover crack?
Also what’s the top three tips for no cracking?
Thank you so much ❤ I want to ask a question please, what material (like a sealer) should I put on the finished piece so it will be permanently resist to water and heat ... or this mixture is sufficient and nothing can be added after finishing the piece, thank you ❤
Good question!! I want to know as well
No problem, thank you for your support! These are the varnishes that I use: th-cam.com/users/shorts-IT3RkDMwH4?feature=share ❤❤
💜💜💜
Thanks for the support
How long could the mixture be stored and at what temperature? Thank you
Thanks for sharing :) one question! After making your mix with color and it’s all ready to go, if stored in a small container, how long will it stay good? Or will it harden?
Thanks dor sharing the wet mix is joint compound abd the powery mayerial is plaster?.
Is it possible to make texture only with plaster Paris, glue and water?
Yes I tried it a few days ago 😊👌🏽
If someone got a stain on their 3d painting how would they get it off without ruining it
Girl, off the topic but I love your nails! Are they ballerinas?!
Oh thank you! No I usually go for square ones, but with a more narrow tip :)
@@nicolinasavmarker I should try that too! Thanks for the reply:)
Which Spackel can I use? Fin Spackel, Aqua Spackel or Acrylic masonry putty? 🙏
Can u do a packing video
thank you for this but can the mixture be sanded down?
Yees absolutely! :D
Awesome mixture 👌
Have to try
Can you tell Measurements of all ingredients?
Thank you! 😃 As mentioned in the tutorial, I don’t do measurements. If I want a thick formula = more spackle, thinner = more water 🫶🏼
Thanks a lot
Hi and thank you for your content. Is it true that if you don't move fast with plaster/water and glue, it can harden vey fast and all your work is lost? I have tried only with plaster powder and water and it got hard so fast, i couldn't save any of it. It became crumbly and with no chance to be saved. I tried adding water again but the texture remained crumbly and hard. Could have been the glue missing from the equation? Thank you!!
Hello! No worries and thank you for watching and chatting :) Yes plaster is super fast!! That is way I don´t like to work with it alone. If u watched the tutorial with sound u heared me say "the main star ingredient" about spackle/wall filler, and also that is why my mixture doesn´t set while I´m working with it :D So I would say it is spackle/wallf filler/joint compound that is missing from the equation ❤
🖤
TH-cam needs to fix their sound problems. Seriously
In and out volumn
please tell me why it cracks when it is in a thicker layer?
Please can I use the wall filler mixed with top bond on canvas ?
HEi!
Jeg har sett på den fine informative videon din :) Jeg er helt ny til bruk av gips. Nå skal jeg til å lage en drage.. og det jeg lurer på : vil det fungere å bruke din metode for å blande gipsmassen, men tynnere, for så dyppe strimler av tynt bomullstyg i dette? Å kjøpe gipsbandasjer/ ruller er ganske dyrt, og jeg trenger ganske mye. Hvordan ville du gjort dette?
Mvh Mette Friid i Norge. :)
I just realized while open the gesso box, that it was not white, but black! Can I quit the gesso part? it will take me some weeks to order online before it arrives in Greece where I stay. Thank you for answering me:)
The spackle and plaster will color it grey, and u can always paint it white afterwards :) Yes I usually use my Original mixture, without the gesso
Are you spray paint primer a lot with my artwork instead of gesso. Do you think that that would work instead for this type of artwork?
I’ve tried making your mixture and using it however it keeps cracking when dry. What am I doing wrong ?
My plaster of paris plus water plus pvA glue mixture keeps generating bubbles. Plz hear me out. What should i do? It’s crucial
Alguien sabe como encontrar todos estos ingredientes en México? Con que nombres? Gracias, excelente tutorial
Hello, I just have a question.....why my 3D art cracked in my first layer? I just follow your steps. Can you help me please?
Can you please add the link to the hand blender tool? Thank you 😊
Hey girlfriend, brilliant work. Thanks for sharing. Would it be too much to ask for color recipe tutorial? I saw you added orange and yellow but couldn't make out the 3rd color.
Thank you so much! 😃😃 The beige one? I usually use red, yellow, a little bit of green (more green = cooler toned beige) and tiny amount of black 😊 U can also use brown + yellow/red/green
Hello, may I know why did you add plaster and water? What's the difference if you just use a filler, texture paste, and white acrylic paint?
I've seen others use only 3 materials for their mixture.
Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you so much ❤️
Hello Katrina! :)
I´ve several answers to your questions but the main answer is that this is my mixture, it isn´t exactly like everyone else is using :)
In the video I also explain that plaster adds to the creaminess and reinforcement and that water thins it out and works as a solvent. And my plan for this mixture is to make it light to medium thick (because the project I was making it for require that concistensy). Did u watched it with sound? Even do my english is quirky lol :D
Also said that this is a budget friendly mix, texture paste is an art supply and can cost a lot more than my ingredients. One thing I didn´t said is that I almost always sand and polish my art pieces, that is easier if the mix doesn´t only contain filler/texture paste/acrylics :) I build 3D layers with my mixture, I don´t do textured art that much (U know when u apply and draw rainbows etc) So I need this kind of ingredients.
Hope this answers to all of your questions! Thank you so much for watching and chatting with me ❤❤
Hi! I have a question about gesso.
Is it primer - like You used it on the end of making 3d canvas, or it's different product?
I am trying to find different - cheaper one on the internet,
but I am not sure about differents between gesso (here on this viedo) and gesso primer..?
HELP :(
Do you regular glue, like school glue? Or wood glue?
And how long until it’s completely dry?
I use wood glue but I know other artists who use school glue :) Oh it depends, on how thick your layers are and how hot/cold your room is. But I would leave it for at least 12-24h, more a day
what kind of plaster ??
Thank you for Sharing I am going try this .. 😃Can you store this mixture in a air tight container?
U should! Yes absolutely, I do! :)
I follow you everywhere ❤ Do you buy all your supplies online? We are moving to Sweden next year and I’ve just started experimenting with art but don’t want to give it up. I’ve got so many questions for you. We going to Stockholm… does the weather affect your art? (The super cold months?)
Hello! Thank you so much for your support!!
Oh yeey welcome :D No I buy my spackle from hardware stores, spackle is super easy to find here in Stockholm. But the rest is online, many of the supplies can u find in stores. I´m just lazy so I like to order online lol. No it´s rather the "hot" summers since the mixture cracks easier when it´s hot ❤❤
@@nicolinasavmarker Thank you so much for your reply
Awesome tutorial and art works ! I have a question for you Nicolina....I did use metal mesh on a bigger canvas with two layers of plaster bandages. First one layer, and after a week a second layer. And it dried good. But after the second layer the work has some yellow, spread spots on the dried bandages....Does it matter? I am now ready for putting on your mixture. Thanks for answering!
Hi! It happened to me too because of the staples that I used, they rusted. But after I applied the mixture it went good, I can't see it any longer. Next time I'll use galvanised ones so it won't happen. Cheers!
@@oanamitroi6385 🙂Thanks for responding to me Oana Mitroi. I was also wondering if the metal mesh I used is not galvanised, as the staples is on the backside of the canvas and there is no rust coming through. I will use a mesh that is not metal. Plastic mesh can make the same mountain peaks
@@oanamitroi6385 hi! I'm trying to do this for the first time. Do you think it's okay for me to use just the mixture of Spackle, glue and water?
@@stellaekpe9376 sure, you could add also some acrylic paint. Good luck! 🫶🏻
@@oanamitroi6385 thank you
I'm a bit confused as the first item does it come mixed or you prepare it before, ( I mean the paste) spakle, is it the one we usualy use before painting the wall? Please answer me as I'll be working on something and have to be hang on wall and afraid it will crack later😢
Yes the spackle/wall filler paste is premixed 😊 Yes! Apply in thin layers, thicker layers will crack
HI what the best paint to you on plaster our lady statue - it very old what do you recommended
Plaster of Paris dry quickly then also use Plaster of Paris?
Yes it does, that´s why I add the main star ingredient :) Watch the tutorial again but with sound ❤
thank you so much for share this video. can you tell what was the last material that you use? that was texture at end you mixed?
hmm don´t really know what u mean? The "premium" version? Don´t think I used anything in the video that I didn´t mentioned
Hi quick question! I tried the mixture on a very large canvas and it’s been around 8 hours and is still wet…what can I fix so my second layer hardens the way yours did?
Hello, 8h and still wet is normal, I always wait 12-24h! 🫶🏼
Does this good to add it on a wall??
Thank you. Does your spackle have sand or grit in it?
No worries! Yes it has, I choose a fine to medium grit. Think it´s hard to find one without it :)
By the way would you be able to give us the amount of each ingredient used to create the mix plates 😊
As typed in the video, I don´t do measurements ❤ If I want a thick formula, I use more spackle and if thinner more water
@@nicolinasavmarker thank you 🙏
❤❤ hola los materiales en español 😊 soy de chile
Cuáles son los materiales que usas? Por favor en español 😊
hello mam,can i use modelling paste instead of spackle/wall filler and plaster of paris?
Hello! I guess u could? :) Don´t know if u can sand it tho, but u can always try
Podrías darme los materiales y las cantidades x favor gracias
How many years do paintings last using this mixture?
Started one year ago and my first paintings are fine :)
Gesso for what?
Plaster means plaster of Paris or wall putty?
I use them both :) U can use molding plaster or plaster of paris. So I use spackle/wall filler/wall putty and plaster
What is spakle called in india.
Sound went out
So you can save it to use even day or two later?
I tried mixing the plaster of Paris and it hardened really fast. Plus it was so messy.
Yes absolutely :) Oh yeah I know, that´s why I don´t like to work with plaster alone. It dries to quickly, my nerves could never
Sound?
No sound 😢
there is no sound 💔
Another name for gesso. What is this
As far is I know there is no other name, you can find it in the art store. Maybe you need a translation to another language?
That it's too wet to work with.
I think I said in the video that I needed that batch to be thinner, for the project I was working on at that time. I also said/wrote that you can make the mixture thicker by adding more spackle/wall filler 😊
No sound, please fix it, make a new video
No sound?? 👎🏼 After the first 9 second intro. Pity.
I know! I´ve had technical problems, th-cam.com/video/93IoBK4ByVI/w-d-xo.html To the video who has voice over . So sorry for the inconvience!
BUMMER...NO VOLUME ..BOOOO
Thank you ❤
Do you have to prep the surface so that it adheres to the surface?