I always comment in my PLay grup. Wizards created Unhinged, Unglued, Unstable... and they were preparing another of such editions.. called UNTESTED! But at the last moment they rebranded it Modern Horizons 2.
I feel that MH2 was sooo good that modern is closer to Modern Horizon Block Constructed, than actually old modern. This har made the format stale for me, as you can't no longer play your favorite cards anymore, except if your favorite cards are from MH1 or MH2. This has pushed my interest away from the format as i feel it has become quite homogonized, every red deck needs 4x Fury, Ragavan, Unholy heat and Darcy. Every white deck needs Prismatic Ending and Solitude, every blue deck counterspell, force of negation and archmages charm.
Amulet, Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Jund, Shadow, Yawgmoth, Burn. All those decks are still extremely playable in modern. They are talking about decks that had began falling off long before MH2. Jund only plays Ragavan now. Of those decks ONLY Jund and Shadow play any of the cards you mentioned maindeck. Modern Horizons sets are actively good for modern by improving or reinvigorating archetypes or even creating new ones. Excluding Hogaak Modern Horizons has only been good for modern IMO.
@@sircheesydagr8730 I was gonna say, I just built cabal coffers invoke despair, I have 4x profane tutor but some lists arent running it, and 1x archon of cruelty, and some lists arent running that. but thats not the point, Im also using cards from all the new sets, kamigawa neon cards, M20 cards, war of the spark, ect. I do get that mh2 does have a lot of staples, ragavan, darcy, murktide, counterspell, archmages charm is totally a deck. but you are right that there are plenty of t1 decks that dont need crazy amounts of mh cards.
@@Kakerate2 I mean, I play the MH2 cards, I enjoy them, but you by no mean HAVE to! Infect didn’t die because of MH2 it died because Hammer time is a better, more consistent, Grindier version of it, Merfolk has not been “good” for 6 years but if anything it is at its best since MH1 and MH2 gave it good cards! Jund is still good, Tron is still a fine choice! Humans is not as well positioned anymore, and that is the only deck that really go pushed out of the format. That being said even without MH2 the deck struggled vs midrange decks with a semi-diverse suite of removal spells. Now those removal spells are just more diverse and more common. That’s now MH2’s fault that they gave us good removal…. That’s just unfortunate for the creature decks.
@@jtyree0226 ragavan in every deck which is hilarious Reinforced ronin for early aggressive plays you can exile it from your hand to Fury or cycle it later
I think an aspect of Infect falling off that was missed is the ways Hammer Time has sort of replaced infect as the Boogeyman deck that can kill you on turn 2. Why play a deck that plays specific threats and buffs them up when (at almost the same speed) you can play cards like Sigardas aid that set you up to turn any creature into an equally viable threat?
There's the problem with your tron deck, It plays Urza's Factory and playsthe wrong Karn (4:58) 😁😁. Honestly I think Tron still puts up the numbers, Boseiju give Tron a mainboard answer to tron hate (e.i. Bloodmoon effects) and damping spheres etc
Hammer Time is still amazing. Took 1st place last FNM. My son who is in infect player three way tied for 2nd place. Infect scored a top 8 in Vegas. The Blossoming Defense , VInes of Vastwood, and spell pierce make interaction with the deck difficult. (update) last night fnm. On my way to a 4 - 0 finish. I have to play my son. And guess who beat me? I had awesome hands but there was nothing I could do to stop him. 3 way tie for first place.
@@satansamael666 I have that card is in the sideboard. Double black pip and 3 mana is a problem. 3 turns into a modern match you should already be going for lethal. Lots of IFs with that card. IF you can cast it, IF it resolves to your board, IF it has protection that your opponent can't use then it becomes a great card. I removed the 4 copies in the main deck for Plague Stinger. Surprisingly you can do a lot with flying. Depending how your first turn went if you hit a noble or not you'll most likely have a mana open to protect the stinger.
@@JustinHinzMagic the Crusader’s protection is actually a big deal now because it’s straight up the answer to Solitude. Besides from my understanding of the deck, it just another axis to attack the opponent from. Think about him as the win con late game against control by stealing game 1.
Got to love that the Tron graphic shows the one Karn that doesn't really see play in Tron. In fairness, Tron has killed more than a few decks itself, which is why so much nonbasic land hate got printed. It's still on the edges of being a deck though, it probably just needs new colourless cards to go off. Hammertime pretty much took over from Infect by being the faster boogyman and the only thing MH2 has done is give it Urza's Saga, though that's admittedly an insane card. One other thing that's probably worth mentioning for Humans and Merfolk is the impact Prismatic Ending had on Aether Vial. Suddenly you have a widespread maindeckable removal that deals with and it becomes a lot worse.
"What killed your modern deck?" Just name it for what they are, Ragavan, Murktide, Fury, Urza's Saga etc... It's really hard to play any other deck in modern right now that isn't an outright burn or tempo control deck, simply because if you wanted to play something like Tron they'll dumpster you before the 3rd urza land hits
As a Jund player, the reason why most Jund players struggle is because they feel like their list is best and refuse to try the new tech. In my list I have ragavans, W6, Dauthi, S.pyro, Barren moor(I know it's a reprint, but was made legal because of MH), Tourach, collector ouphe, force of vigor, endurance, charmaw, plague engineer, void mirror and Grist. This list is just in my list and I know other jund players are also on unholy heat and other tech. BOB and BBE doesn't cut it IMO in modern jund
Feel you on this! I’ve updated my traditional Jund deck to include a bunch of these new cards and they seem like a blast. I thanked them for the joy they’ve brought me, then I filed Bob, Goyf, Scooze, and BBE away. I was even thinking about pitching LoV. W6 has been awesome and I picked up 2 Ragnavans this week. Can’t wait to see how much fun it is to dash it in.
@@SnipSnapDragon24 not sure I agree with cutting goyf bit hopefully you have some great results. Goyf has been an amazing beater even with MH2. They either answer him or lose to him. I did drop LOTV just to see what it was like and it wasn't right so now I'm back on 3
Ya'll are sleeping on merfolk. MH2 killed a lot of decks, but it MADE merfolk the powerhouse it can be now. Tide Shaper either replaced or became more copies of Spreading Seas, and Svyelun is now the best card in the deck being a 4-of, giving protection from Fury, needing 2 Bolts to kill, AND surviving the sweepers just to draw you into more gas.
It's not that people are sleeping on Merfolk, it's just that the other, top tier decks can break down Merfolk's game plan and/or pop off faster than them. It's a recurring theme with a bunch of older decks where they're not *bad* at all, they're just not as good as the good decks.
@@ghj3950 The merfolk shell has evolved to be better, but the other half of the deck is disruption. I'd put Tide Shaper in both categories since it disrupts and puts a clock into play. The hard part is balancing the counterspells and such you put around it. Subtletys, Force of Negations, Counterspells, Archmage's Charms, Spell Pierces, they're all on the table. I think a merfolk deck that can perfect the balance of those and other interactive spells can be quite formidable.
@@franklinhodsoniv8210 Formidable, definitely. The real question is "can it be more formidable than the top decks atm". I believe that's the biggest question to answer for a lot of the decks flying under the radar this meta. Believe it or not but Tron is still being fairly well represented in the meta but a lot of people are underrating it, as evident in the video. I had a discussion with someone on Reid dukes power rankings video about how he left that out even though it's still considered a top deck by statistics. This is a very volatile time in the modern format, haha.
Merfolk did manage to get one or two extra cards out of MH2: Svyelun of Sea and Sky, and Rishadan Dockhand both slot into that deck, and Dockhand being a Rishadan Port effect when you have Aether Vial up to drop threats into play helps against some decks.
At around 80$ a pop, I’m concerned about sinking cash into Ragnavan. Think that monkey will catch a ban in Modern? The ‘modern rotation lament’ was real for me, but I’m adapting quickly. In early 2019, I dropped loads of time and cash into paper modern. Built Jund, UWR Control, Green and E Trons, infect, and Robots. Then, we all took a break for a couple of years. I still love those decks and keep them at the ready, but they not sure how they’ll be in my local meta. Now, I’m blending new decks into my collection and hoping to have fun at the LGS at the next Modern Wednesday.
I’m still relatively new to MTG, but I don’t think it’s ban worthy, there’s so much removal to deal with it, that at most it’s a slight annoyance, plus, you just block right lol
Yeah MH2 and other factors pushed me out of Magic pretty much altogether. Almost everyone I know has switched to Commander, which I am not a super fan of, and they have their own group rules to contain the power level. So it was a fun ride with MTG and I had a lot of fun, but it is time to start a new hobby.
its fun if you can do that. I mulled the decision over many months myself but I don't think I can leave magic. My friend's group revolves around magic, commander or otherwise. If I stop, its going to be increasingly hard to find friends or start over again.
Mox Opal being banned. I still have a playset of invention opals, and a seething rage. Talking about Affinity and Hardened Scales. And the tribal decks really died to Plague Engineer in MH1.
but mox opal is still an expensive card due to CEDH, you can recoup your money for the most part atleast and get into affinity. I do feel your pain, I never played t1 decks, and after a while I decided ive played modern enough to invest in one. and then I got banned as well.
@@Rabid_Wombat it’s wasn’t Urza that pushed Mox Opal, it was Oko. It was when Oko, Urza, Opal and gilded goose were put into one deck. I am sad Mox Opal is still banned and wish to play it in Lantern and Robots once again 😢
Modern Horizons didn't just kill a bunch of decks, it killed the whole format. It was a mistake to print so many powerful free spells. People shouldn't have to pay $2000 to have a hope of doing well in a Modern event. There was a time, not too long ago, when you could win a GP with *Skred Red.*
I think we should just create a new format called „Modern no Horizons“, banning all cards that have never been legal in standard since 8th edition, creating a less busted hopefully more diverse format and dodgeing the upcoming LotR set in the process…
I got banned out of modem. KCI, faithless looting, and mox Opal. I was slowly building KCI and was only able to bring it to one FNM. Mardu Pyromancer was my fair deck that died for Hogaak’s sins. GB Lantern Control died because WOTC didn’t like free mana except they keep printing free spells.
I’m starting to feel the same way, which is tearing up my guts a bit. I got into Modern because I didn’t want to play in a rotating format. Between the bans and the MH products, Modern seems to be a MH/MH2 block. I like the new cards, but the obsolescence of certain cards has made me question my ‘investment’ in the Tier 1 decks of yesteryear. I’m even skeptical about buying into Ragnavan due to how rampant it is in the format. I can see it getting a ban for homogenizing the format. Of course, I still want DRS unbanned in Modern. Totally degenerate.
Question: are these decks dead or are they sleeping? Is it better to think of the meta as "which decks are the most popular or noisy"? These decks can all still put out results but now because of MH2 is it that the interaction is so easy to play that the skill ceiling on these decks has gone so far up that they arent played by a lot of people anymore and now have just gone to sleep...waiting for that one good card to blow the lid off and take the metagame by storm? -Signed: a salty UR storm player
I don't feel like saying jund is dead since zoomer jund is a pretty solid deck and tron, after boseiju has been printed, it's even better, there are some really good lists in mono green tron but even eldratron
@@anonymousturtle3358 I'm only playing in paper and there are actually plenty of great matchups between titan, affinity, burn, dredge and other GY shenanigans, midrange decks like jund, rakdos, ponza, cascade decks are not that bad either and so on. You also have a great I-win-button in CoCo that many decks can't interact with. Only matchup I have no experience with is 4C-Omnath and I'm well aware that that's a big player on MTGO and tournaments. So maybe that's a very bad MU? the difference between paper and online is very, very real though
I stopped playing modern because Force of Negation is like 100$CAD each, and I love playing blue. Also, wanted to add the new evokes elementals to my Scapeshift deck, but they're all 40 bucks each. So I went back to Commander budget brews.
as someone who loved the modern format but hasn't played for ages due to the costs of keeping up with the format, this makes me sad. if one set has warped the format so much that most of the old power is gone, not because wizards manage to create actual powerful archetypes to contend, but because the new cards from MH2 are just cheaper, more powerful cards that do mostly the same thing, that sounds like a failure from a design standpoint. obviously its a success from a marketing standpoint, but if one set essentially resets an entire format, that seems like a mistake.
I don't think they intended MH2 to have this effect. I'm sure they simply believed it would contribute to moderns diversity. Unfortunately for all of us, that is not what happened 🥲
hollow one wasn't crushed by graveyard hate, graveyard hate had always been around in the format, what killed hallow one or atleast made it where the deck isn't as good as it was is faithless looting. Sure we still got goblin lore and stuff like that but the fact we discard things randomly made that deck basically lose to itself but faithless looting gave a bit more consistency and that's why that deck just died over night
I’m just going to say personally the push for doesn’t require mana effects is what drove me from the format. Well that and the price of the pushed cards from limited product.
Merfolk still has fins. Svyelun and Tide Shaper, along with Counterspell helped out a lot. But the Evoke Elementals and the sleep of broken red 1 drops has really kept us from swimming back to the surface. Modern desperately needs Back to Basics and Hydroblast to correct the glut of greedy mana bases and the dominance of red.
My deck has been Urza ThopterSword combo since MH1 came out, thier were a couple times where the deck took a big hit, opal being banned definitely made the deck not tier 1 anymore but I still have a variation that came top an FNM
I've played a lot of modern decks over the years, but the most consistent one has been burn. No surprise there, as the deck has been mostly solved after eidolon was printed and it's an "always good but never broken" sort of deck with a solid gameplan but no ban-worthy cards.
Izzet Phoenix was my deck after MH1 in 2019 and then they banned Faithless Looting along with Hoogak. I had to build stuff like Boros Burn and Mono Green Tron . I still did 3-1 at a 4 round FNM with mono green Tron . I don’t see as much hate against Tron unless they run baby Karn and liquid metal coating .
I quit Modern a long time ago but spent $100 on an Orzhov Reanimator deck...80 percent of the cards are from MH2. Came 4th place in a Modern tourney and smashed some expensive decks with my pile of jank lol
I don't think Merfolk has died, it just became more of a niche community. It's characterized as a hard deck to play nowadays, but with a high skill ceiling which I think is supported by the fact that a Merfolk player came second in an LEC modern tournament recently, sadly losing the finals against a Rhinos
I recently came back into the modern format and built mono green tron. I think it's currently on the uptick in popularity, and have been top 8 in the last few locals, and could have easily placed higher if not for a few decisive mistakes, so I'm pretty happy with the list. I think the argument of mh2 killing the format is wrong. I think it gave a lot of decks more viability against the other broken decks in the format. That being said, I think it really sucks that mh2 was at such a high price point, and that it devalued a bunch of cards that used to be staples. I'm also not a fan of the giant pile of "free" answers that they printed all at once. Still I don't believe it's insurmountable. Players have to adapt their decks all the time to answer new threats in the format, and it's always been that way. That's what keeps the format fresh and the reason I keep returning to mtg. Anyway that's my 2 cents Tldr: Tron still good-mh2 too much all at once but not format breaking
This is why I’m getting into pioneer, it just feels more like the magic i want to play. Almost every deck listed has something of an analog. Humans is a playable deck, greasefang is a combo deck that feels like you got beat by infect when you can’t answer parhelion, RB is comparable to jund. Lotus field is a land combo synergy deck. Merfolk i think hasn’t taken off but still, im more into playing against this stuff than i am losing to The Same Mythics from MH2.
Lol fast forward to NOW (just before Dominaria United pre-release) I hear "Merfolk" and go We only really need to worry about Solitude and Fury because VODALIAN HEXMAGE 😁👍
you don't need a banning to ban your card. it just has to become irrelevant instead. I don't think we're angry enough about this power creep. modern's draw initially was that it was non-rotating. now, is that true anymore?
i used to play jund in modern and sold my deck around khans of tarkir, and i've always heard '' when a deck like jund is good, that means the format is well balanced'', i guess that just shows how horrible modern horizons 2 was for the format.
On the subject of Tron, I think that it's laying low right now. Granted, I also think that U-Tron or U/G-Tron are just waiting for someone to unleash them across the metagame, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Modern horizons 2 did not kill humans. Fire design did. As someone who still plays the deck, it was left in the dust by power creep long before mh2, with mh1, war, and companions all radically changing the modern format to a point where the humans game plan was no longer viable. The deck is debatably better than it was before mh2, with imperial recruiter, Esper sentinel, tourach, and Adeline all being substantial upgrades to the deck. The deck isn’t well positioned, but the deck isn’t quite dead, and mh2 didn’t kill it.
After Khans block things got weird for modern, it was like the end of a golden age. Now everything from modern horizons feels disjointed and a pile of broken cards, deck themes are gone and colors are pointless…
The Rock still exists. It always exists. Urza's Saga gives the deck a bit of toolboxing, and the manabase is so much better than Jund, it's not even close. I don't think there's been an era where The Rock wasn't playable other than Eldrazi Winter.
Saying MH2 is the main culprit of these decks being in a slump is a bit disingenuous. Some of these decks started falling off before MH2 was even a thing. Humans got overshadowed by spirits, infect got overshadowed by Hammertime, Jund is still in the metagame. Like sure MH2 def didn’t help to an extent but the set also granted some of these decks and many other decks new tools for these decks to adapt. The “MH2 killed by favorite deck” and “because of MH2 you can’t play your favorite cards” arguments are bunk.
Used to play tribal elves b/G and mono green until the release of the most dreaded set in MTG history-- modern horizons 2... Afterwards B/G or mono green elves were curb stomped twenty weeks in a row... After this abysmal stretch stopped playing and haven't played since; the affect of MH2 also increased the average price of a competitive modern decks as well. I guess money was never the issue how ever when one builds/buys a few modern decks a year such things do add up but I digress. I miss the days before the dark times... before MH2... MH2 ruined other decks I played as well; don't get me wrong I have a a play set of all the power MH2 cards but I rarely play them because how they ruined playing elves. Modern as format in general is stagnant and has been for some time; the main or core elements of three arch deck types dominate a once creative format-- creativity and diversity have melted away likes tears in the rain...
I gave up on modern after MH2. We now get our "eternal" formats hard rotated every 2 years with premium priced horizon sets. i never played standard because of rotation and now only play edh and pioneer ( until pioneer horizons comes around)
Sad but true, I had to give up both jund and humans and I've played jund for years, not to talk about infect with Once Upon a Time the most fun I had in ages.
It's time to release a format called Modern HorizonLESS, where you basically play Modern as of today cards like MH sets never existed. Wouldn't that be interesting ?
3:46 - Humans and Infect didn't die out, they just took their battles to our world.
I always comment in my PLay grup. Wizards created Unhinged, Unglued, Unstable... and they were preparing another of such editions.. called UNTESTED! But at the last moment they rebranded it Modern Horizons 2.
I feel that MH2 was sooo good that modern is closer to Modern Horizon Block Constructed, than actually old modern. This har made the format stale for me, as you can't no longer play your favorite cards anymore, except if your favorite cards are from MH1 or MH2. This has pushed my interest away from the format as i feel it has become quite homogonized, every red deck needs 4x Fury, Ragavan, Unholy heat and Darcy. Every white deck needs Prismatic Ending and Solitude, every blue deck counterspell, force of negation and archmages charm.
Amulet, Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Jund, Shadow, Yawgmoth, Burn. All those decks are still extremely playable in modern. They are talking about decks that had began falling off long before MH2. Jund only plays Ragavan now. Of those decks ONLY Jund and Shadow play any of the cards you mentioned maindeck. Modern Horizons sets are actively good for modern by improving or reinvigorating archetypes or even creating new ones. Excluding Hogaak Modern Horizons has only been good for modern IMO.
@@sircheesydagr8730 I was gonna say, I just built cabal coffers invoke despair, I have 4x profane tutor but some lists arent running it, and 1x archon of cruelty, and some lists arent running that. but thats not the point, Im also using cards from all the new sets, kamigawa neon cards, M20 cards, war of the spark, ect. I do get that mh2 does have a lot of staples, ragavan, darcy, murktide, counterspell, archmages charm is totally a deck. but you are right that there are plenty of t1 decks that dont need crazy amounts of mh cards.
Agreed 100%
agreed. the plebs that spent $600 on MH2 cards will disagree with you fervently though
@@Kakerate2 I mean, I play the MH2 cards, I enjoy them, but you by no mean HAVE to! Infect didn’t die because of MH2 it died because Hammer time is a better, more consistent, Grindier version of it, Merfolk has not been “good” for 6 years but if anything it is at its best since MH1 and MH2 gave it good cards! Jund is still good, Tron is still a fine choice! Humans is not as well positioned anymore, and that is the only deck that really go pushed out of the format. That being said even without MH2 the deck struggled vs midrange decks with a semi-diverse suite of removal spells. Now those removal spells are just more diverse and more common. That’s now MH2’s fault that they gave us good removal…. That’s just unfortunate for the creature decks.
My deck was humans and was some of the most fun I ever had playing mtg. Thank you for rehashing this travesty
And to think when MH1 came out I thought plague engineer was worse thing to happen. Was I ever wrong when MH2 came out
@@jtyree0226 ragavan in every deck which is hilarious
Reinforced ronin for early aggressive plays you can exile it from your hand to Fury or cycle it later
2 words. Modern Horizons
I think an aspect of Infect falling off that was missed is the ways Hammer Time has sort of replaced infect as the Boogeyman deck that can kill you on turn 2. Why play a deck that plays specific threats and buffs them up when (at almost the same speed) you can play cards like Sigardas aid that set you up to turn any creature into an equally viable threat?
There's the problem with your tron deck, It plays Urza's Factory and playsthe wrong Karn (4:58) 😁😁. Honestly I think Tron still puts up the numbers, Boseiju give Tron a mainboard answer to tron hate (e.i. Bloodmoon effects) and damping spheres etc
Lmaooo
I still do pretty well since there is more homebrews than higher tier decks at my FNM .
Blue tron still treating me well lol
Hammer Time is still amazing. Took 1st place last FNM. My son who is in infect player three way tied for 2nd place. Infect scored a top 8 in Vegas. The Blossoming Defense , VInes of Vastwood, and spell pierce make interaction with the deck difficult. (update) last night fnm. On my way to a 4 - 0 finish. I have to play my son. And guess who beat me? I had awesome hands but there was nothing I could do to stop him. 3 way tie for first place.
Don’t forget the Phyrexian Crusader.
@@satansamael666 I have that card is in the sideboard. Double black pip and 3 mana is a problem. 3 turns into a modern match you should already be going for lethal. Lots of IFs with that card. IF you can cast it, IF it resolves to your board, IF it has protection that your opponent can't use then it becomes a great card. I removed the 4 copies in the main deck for Plague Stinger. Surprisingly you can do a lot with flying. Depending how your first turn went if you hit a noble or not you'll most likely have a mana open to protect the stinger.
@@JustinHinzMagic the Crusader’s protection is actually a big deal now because it’s straight up the answer to Solitude. Besides from my understanding of the deck, it just another axis to attack the opponent from. Think about him as the win con late game against control by stealing game 1.
And i won my last FNM on Izzet Prowess. Doesn't mean the deck is amazeballs. Just means i got favourable matchups all night long
@@JudoMoniz you didn't go against hammer? Sorry mate. ;)
Got to love that the Tron graphic shows the one Karn that doesn't really see play in Tron.
In fairness, Tron has killed more than a few decks itself, which is why so much nonbasic land hate got printed. It's still on the edges of being a deck though, it probably just needs new colourless cards to go off.
Hammertime pretty much took over from Infect by being the faster boogyman and the only thing MH2 has done is give it Urza's Saga, though that's admittedly an insane card.
One other thing that's probably worth mentioning for Humans and Merfolk is the impact Prismatic Ending had on Aether Vial. Suddenly you have a widespread maindeckable removal that deals with and it becomes a lot worse.
"What killed your modern deck?"
Just name it for what they are, Ragavan, Murktide, Fury, Urza's Saga etc...
It's really hard to play any other deck in modern right now that isn't an outright burn or tempo control deck, simply because if you wanted to play something like Tron they'll dumpster you before the 3rd urza land hits
As a Jund player, the reason why most Jund players struggle is because they feel like their list is best and refuse to try the new tech. In my list I have ragavans, W6, Dauthi, S.pyro, Barren moor(I know it's a reprint, but was made legal because of MH), Tourach, collector ouphe, force of vigor, endurance, charmaw, plague engineer, void mirror and Grist. This list is just in my list and I know other jund players are also on unholy heat and other tech.
BOB and BBE doesn't cut it IMO in modern jund
The reason Jund players are sticking to their old cards is probably because they were extremely expensive at the time.
@@LarsIsReal I know that's how most people see it and that may be true for some, but I think some people also just really like the play pattern
Feel you on this! I’ve updated my traditional Jund deck to include a bunch of these new cards and they seem like a blast. I thanked them for the joy they’ve brought me, then I filed Bob, Goyf, Scooze, and BBE away. I was even thinking about pitching LoV. W6 has been awesome and I picked up 2 Ragnavans this week. Can’t wait to see how much fun it is to dash it in.
@@SnipSnapDragon24 not sure I agree with cutting goyf bit hopefully you have some great results. Goyf has been an amazing beater even with MH2. They either answer him or lose to him. I did drop LOTV just to see what it was like and it wasn't right so now I'm back on 3
Ya'll are sleeping on merfolk. MH2 killed a lot of decks, but it MADE merfolk the powerhouse it can be now. Tide Shaper either replaced or became more copies of Spreading Seas, and Svyelun is now the best card in the deck being a 4-of, giving protection from Fury, needing 2 Bolts to kill, AND surviving the sweepers just to draw you into more gas.
It's not that people are sleeping on Merfolk, it's just that the other, top tier decks can break down Merfolk's game plan and/or pop off faster than them. It's a recurring theme with a bunch of older decks where they're not *bad* at all, they're just not as good as the good decks.
@@ghj3950 The merfolk shell has evolved to be better, but the other half of the deck is disruption. I'd put Tide Shaper in both categories since it disrupts and puts a clock into play. The hard part is balancing the counterspells and such you put around it. Subtletys, Force of Negations, Counterspells, Archmage's Charms, Spell Pierces, they're all on the table. I think a merfolk deck that can perfect the balance of those and other interactive spells can be quite formidable.
@@franklinhodsoniv8210 Formidable, definitely. The real question is "can it be more formidable than the top decks atm". I believe that's the biggest question to answer for a lot of the decks flying under the radar this meta. Believe it or not but Tron is still being fairly well represented in the meta but a lot of people are underrating it, as evident in the video. I had a discussion with someone on Reid dukes power rankings video about how he left that out even though it's still considered a top deck by statistics. This is a very volatile time in the modern format, haha.
Merfolk never dies, it just has to adapt and wait until the time is right. Now it's not a really good spot but the deck can still try to compete
Fishpeople gathering, I just gonna head out
Cool, so like most of the entire modern meta from 2017-2018. I got burned pretty badly getting into modern and I’m not going back.
Merfolk did manage to get one or two extra cards out of MH2: Svyelun of Sea and Sky, and Rishadan Dockhand both slot into that deck, and Dockhand being a Rishadan Port effect when you have Aether Vial up to drop threats into play helps against some decks.
At around 80$ a pop, I’m concerned about sinking cash into Ragnavan. Think that monkey will catch a ban in Modern? The ‘modern rotation lament’ was real for me, but I’m adapting quickly. In early 2019, I dropped loads of time and cash into paper modern. Built Jund, UWR Control, Green and E Trons, infect, and Robots. Then, we all took a break for a couple of years. I still love those decks and keep them at the ready, but they not sure how they’ll be in my local meta. Now, I’m blending new decks into my collection and hoping to have fun at the LGS at the next Modern Wednesday.
I’m still relatively new to MTG, but I don’t think it’s ban worthy, there’s so much removal to deal with it, that at most it’s a slight annoyance, plus, you just block right lol
I don't think it's ban worthy, I bought mine for JUND and it's been a blast. Like all decks, you can't expect to win then all
I don't think Ragavan will ever be banned in modern
Lol don’t listen to these yo yo’s. The monkey will get the hammer. Wotc just needs to scrape more money from everyone(like yourself)
Yeah MH2 and other factors pushed me out of Magic pretty much altogether. Almost everyone I know has switched to Commander, which I am not a super fan of, and they have their own group rules to contain the power level. So it was a fun ride with MTG and I had a lot of fun, but it is time to start a new hobby.
its fun if you can do that. I mulled the decision over many months myself but I don't think I can leave magic. My friend's group revolves around magic, commander or otherwise. If I stop, its going to be increasingly hard to find friends or start over again.
4:28 I think he was talking about Kira great glass spinner
Mox Opal being banned. I still have a playset of invention opals, and a seething rage. Talking about Affinity and Hardened Scales.
And the tribal decks really died to Plague Engineer in MH1.
but mox opal is still an expensive card due to CEDH, you can recoup your money for the most part atleast and get into affinity. I do feel your pain, I never played t1 decks, and after a while I decided ive played modern enough to invest in one. and then I got banned as well.
The Mox Opal ban broke my heart a lil bit. I’d gotten my Robots deck just right and l was enjoying the math problems each round!
Mod Opal was fine until Urza came along...that's the card that should have been banned.
@@Rabid_Wombat it’s wasn’t Urza that pushed Mox Opal, it was Oko.
It was when Oko, Urza, Opal and gilded goose were put into one deck.
I am sad Mox Opal is still banned and wish to play it in Lantern and Robots once again 😢
@@tristanlakeman13 yeah that makes sense - Broko was crazy
watching this today made me smile, cause goods deck never dies, they just get of the scene to come back updated
Modern Horizons didn't just kill a bunch of decks, it killed the whole format. It was a mistake to print so many powerful free spells. People shouldn't have to pay $2000 to have a hope of doing well in a Modern event. There was a time, not too long ago, when you could win a GP with *Skred Red.*
I think we should just create a new format called „Modern no Horizons“, banning all cards that have never been legal in standard since 8th edition, creating a less busted hopefully more diverse format and dodgeing the upcoming LotR set in the process…
Many people are of this opinion!
I got banned out of modem. KCI, faithless looting, and mox Opal. I was slowly building KCI and was only able to bring it to one FNM. Mardu Pyromancer was my fair deck that died for Hogaak’s sins. GB Lantern Control died because WOTC didn’t like free mana except they keep printing free spells.
I'm playing Mono-green Tron and taking Top 8 spots in my LGS. Just took 3rd place on 07/08/2022. Took 5th place on 06/29/2022
the horizons products killed my interest in modern
Me too
I’m starting to feel the same way, which is tearing up my guts a bit. I got into Modern because I didn’t want to play in a rotating format. Between the bans and the MH products, Modern seems to be a MH/MH2 block. I like the new cards, but the obsolescence of certain cards has made me question my ‘investment’ in the Tier 1 decks of yesteryear. I’m even skeptical about buying into Ragnavan due to how rampant it is in the format. I can see it getting a ban for homogenizing the format. Of course, I still want DRS unbanned in Modern. Totally degenerate.
Would KCI still be a top tier deck now?
Question: are these decks dead or are they sleeping? Is it better to think of the meta as "which decks are the most popular or noisy"? These decks can all still put out results but now because of MH2 is it that the interaction is so easy to play that the skill ceiling on these decks has gone so far up that they arent played by a lot of people anymore and now have just gone to sleep...waiting for that one good card to blow the lid off and take the metagame by storm?
-Signed: a salty UR storm player
Sure, cross your fingers for MH3 to give your deck some goodies. If not, prepare to keep being salty
Fuk mh2 to be honest. Whoever thought solitude was a good idea should be taken out to pasture.
-Sincerely salty infect player #unban Gitaxian probe
I don't feel like saying jund is dead since zoomer jund is a pretty solid deck and tron, after boseiju has been printed, it's even better, there are some really good lists in mono green tron but even eldratron
I thought Heliod would be in this list for sure! As a humans player I’m super sad to see the deck go!
Heliod is still awesome. Especially in paper
Heliod really only sees no play because on MTGO it can't combo. In paper it's still a solid tier 2 deck.
@@anonymousturtle3358 i'd argue it's at least tier 1.5.
I know, it's my pet deck, but I still have the results to back it up.
@@govegan92 I was hedging low, I don't actually play it all that much. It could easily be tier 1.5.
@@anonymousturtle3358 I'm only playing in paper and there are actually plenty of great matchups between titan, affinity, burn, dredge and other GY shenanigans, midrange decks like jund, rakdos, ponza, cascade decks are not that bad either and so on. You also have a great I-win-button in CoCo that many decks can't interact with. Only matchup I have no experience with is 4C-Omnath and I'm well aware that that's a big player on MTGO and tournaments. So maybe that's a very bad MU?
the difference between paper and online is very, very real though
Should make a video "Top decks that survived Modern Horizons 2"
You just need to go on the MTG Goldfish modern metagame page for that 😅
Bang on my $1200 jund deck Is now only worth 60% of that and is in the box virtually unplayable
I stopped playing modern because Force of Negation is like 100$CAD each, and I love playing blue. Also, wanted to add the new evokes elementals to my Scapeshift deck, but they're all 40 bucks each. So I went back to Commander budget brews.
as someone who loved the modern format but hasn't played for ages due to the costs of keeping up with the format, this makes me sad. if one set has warped the format so much that most of the old power is gone, not because wizards manage to create actual powerful archetypes to contend, but because the new cards from MH2 are just cheaper, more powerful cards that do mostly the same thing, that sounds like a failure from a design standpoint. obviously its a success from a marketing standpoint, but if one set essentially resets an entire format, that seems like a mistake.
I don't think they intended MH2 to have this effect. I'm sure they simply believed it would contribute to moderns diversity. Unfortunately for all of us, that is not what happened 🥲
Is it weird when I see people say Jund Died but it still does well and is putting up results.
Yes the 4 c deck is a hard match up, but it's not doom
You should consider making a Podcast
Hollow one. Hollow One was absolutly crushed by graveyard hate and broken removal :(
hollow one wasn't crushed by graveyard hate, graveyard hate had always been around in the format, what killed hallow one or atleast made it where the deck isn't as good as it was is faithless looting. Sure we still got goblin lore and stuff like that but the fact we discard things randomly made that deck basically lose to itself but faithless looting gave a bit more consistency and that's why that deck just died over night
Look at recent lists with Vengevine. Asmo, Cookbook and Rootwalla make great additions to Hollow One 🙂
Affinity was never the same after the Mox Opal ban. Might as well add it to the list.
I’m just going to say personally the push for doesn’t require mana effects is what drove me from the format. Well that and the price of the pushed cards from limited product.
playing shit for 0 mana is dumb as hell for sure.
Tron like mono red burn sit around in the background till people are not ready for or dont side board for it. And then promptly loose cause of that.
Goodness. These are some of my decks I still am trying to cram , merfolk and infect. We have had to adapt and play really well
Great video.
Spirit Guide ban killed all the janky combo decks in Modern.
And prison
In one of your upcoming 1v1 modern deck videos you should play Sultai Infect!
Merfolk still has fins. Svyelun and Tide Shaper, along with Counterspell helped out a lot. But the Evoke Elementals and the sleep of broken red 1 drops has really kept us from swimming back to the surface.
Modern desperately needs Back to Basics and Hydroblast to correct the glut of greedy mana bases and the dominance of red.
My deck has been Urza ThopterSword combo since MH1 came out, thier were a couple times where the deck took a big hit, opal being banned definitely made the deck not tier 1 anymore but I still have a variation that came top an FNM
I've played a lot of modern decks over the years, but the most consistent one has been burn. No surprise there, as the deck has been mostly solved after eidolon was printed and it's an "always good but never broken" sort of deck with a solid gameplan but no ban-worthy cards.
Smorc
Another thing that really killed infect is the fact that every deck is now running removal for Ragavan which is really strong against infect.
Nice video. Loving the discussion content. Would prowess of a year ago count as a deck that has fallen off?
Indeed but it is a top 5 only
Izzet Phoenix was my deck after MH1 in 2019 and then they banned Faithless Looting along with Hoogak. I had to build stuff like Boros Burn and Mono Green Tron . I still did 3-1 at a 4 round FNM with mono green Tron . I don’t see as much hate against Tron unless they run baby Karn and liquid metal coating .
Im still upset that pheonix got gutted bc of Hogaak.
I still main a spicy pheonix build that does pretty well against creativity
I quit Modern a long time ago but spent $100 on an Orzhov Reanimator deck...80 percent of the cards are from MH2.
Came 4th place in a Modern tourney and smashed some expensive decks with my pile of jank lol
Do you have the list?
@@jakecollin5499 will post it after work 👍
@@Rabid_Wombat must have been working straight since 2 months 😂
I don't think Merfolk has died, it just became more of a niche community. It's characterized as a hard deck to play nowadays, but with a high skill ceiling which I think is supported by the fact that a Merfolk player came second in an LEC modern tournament recently, sadly losing the finals against a Rhinos
Splinter twin getting banned killed my favorite deck. And birthing pod getting banned. And... Well there is a long list, you get the point.
Jund died???
Reid Duke: hold my Lily
the editor clearly thought kira, great glass-spinner was a simic planeswalker
Splinter twin combo decks.... I loved that deck
Didnt even mention that Prismatic ending destroys Aether Vial which was a major key to Humans best draws
Same for Merfolk
And Ending hitting Map in Tron made it lose a few % points as well
Prismatic Ending and Fury simply killed all the tribal decks by removing everything including Aether Vials...
Plaque engineer did this before Fury and ending
"Solitude, it's a free path to Exile basically"
Swords to Plowshares has entered the chat
I recently came back into the modern format and built mono green tron. I think it's currently on the uptick in popularity, and have been top 8 in the last few locals, and could have easily placed higher if not for a few decisive mistakes, so I'm pretty happy with the list.
I think the argument of mh2 killing the format is wrong. I think it gave a lot of decks more viability against the other broken decks in the format. That being said, I think it really sucks that mh2 was at such a high price point, and that it devalued a bunch of cards that used to be staples. I'm also not a fan of the giant pile of "free" answers that they printed all at once. Still I don't believe it's insurmountable. Players have to adapt their decks all the time to answer new threats in the format, and it's always been that way. That's what keeps the format fresh and the reason I keep returning to mtg. Anyway that's my 2 cents
Tldr: Tron still good-mh2 too much all at once but not format breaking
This is why I’m getting into pioneer, it just feels more like the magic i want to play. Almost every deck listed has something of an analog. Humans is a playable deck, greasefang is a combo deck that feels like you got beat by infect when you can’t answer parhelion, RB is comparable to jund. Lotus field is a land combo synergy deck. Merfolk i think hasn’t taken off but still, im more into playing against this stuff than i am losing to The Same Mythics from MH2.
Pioneer is great! It feels like the old standard we used to love, but more powerfull and diverse!
RIP tron my beloved, at least the cards still look pretty in a binder
Actually, I am playing Spirits and kind of still enjoy the game :) but my sideboard needs to be prepared for Fury all the time xD
The lurris ban helped a bit.
Infect was also hard done by Fatal Push. Its decline was long before MH2.
Pour one out for the true victim of modern: mardu pyro
Goodnight sweet prince. You haven't been forgotten
I play KGCless U(W) Tron and still smash bro. Even got an upgrade recently in the way of Jin.
Hammer time gets crapped on by Thieving Skydiver G2 and 3 lol. Good against SFM too.
Nice, I own 4 of those decks. MH2 made me so happy....
I own all those decks besides merfolk and literally haven't played modern since mh2
Lol fast forward to NOW (just before Dominaria United pre-release)
I hear "Merfolk" and go
We only really need to worry about Solitude and Fury because VODALIAN HEXMAGE 😁👍
We are releasing a modern video with Vodalian Hexcatcher next week! 😃 let's see if merfolk is back
Tron is Mono-Green now, so Tron is not dead. Colorless Tron is dead unless your playing the Eldrazi Tron version
Isn’t the answer almost always Power Creep or Banlist?
8 rack will never die 🤙🏻
Merfolk is also pretty playable rn if def not tier 1
Infect kinda made a comeback with phyrexian crusader in mtg Vegas cause it has protection from stuff like fury and solitude
you don't need a banning to ban your card. it just has to become irrelevant instead.
I don't think we're angry enough about this power creep. modern's draw initially was that it was non-rotating. now, is that true anymore?
How did u miss izzet blitz
Jund is still here lol. RB,Jund saga or normal jund is still pulling out results.
It really sucks almost all combo in modern is gone.
Jund is definitly still viable this was proven by getting a top four in a 30k
i used to play jund in modern and sold my deck around khans of tarkir, and i've always heard '' when a deck like jund is good, that means the format is well balanced'', i guess that just shows how horrible modern horizons 2 was for the format.
We unfortunately have to agree
On the subject of Tron, I think that it's laying low right now. Granted, I also think that U-Tron or U/G-Tron are just waiting for someone to unleash them across the metagame, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Death and taxes and other fair creature-based decks are really hurt by fury.
Modern horizons 2 did not kill humans. Fire design did. As someone who still plays the deck, it was left in the dust by power creep long before mh2, with mh1, war, and companions all radically changing the modern format to a point where the humans game plan was no longer viable. The deck is debatably better than it was before mh2, with imperial recruiter, Esper sentinel, tourach, and Adeline all being substantial upgrades to the deck. The deck isn’t well positioned, but the deck isn’t quite dead, and mh2 didn’t kill it.
Infect was dying WAY before MH. Push and probe ban did lots
After Khans block things got weird for modern, it was like the end of a golden age. Now everything from modern horizons feels disjointed and a pile of broken cards, deck themes are gone and colors are pointless…
It is, indeed, a weird time for modern
The Rock still exists. It always exists. Urza's Saga gives the deck a bit of toolboxing, and the manabase is so much better than Jund, it's not even close. I don't think there's been an era where The Rock wasn't playable other than Eldrazi Winter.
I just hoped on Cedh. Shits ballin' 🏀
Saying MH2 is the main culprit of these decks being in a slump is a bit disingenuous. Some of these decks started falling off before MH2 was even a thing. Humans got overshadowed by spirits, infect got overshadowed by Hammertime, Jund is still in the metagame. Like sure MH2 def didn’t help to an extent but the set also granted some of these decks and many other decks new tools for these decks to adapt. The “MH2 killed by favorite deck” and “because of MH2 you can’t play your favorite cards” arguments are bunk.
Used to play tribal elves b/G and mono green until the release of the most dreaded set in MTG history-- modern horizons 2... Afterwards B/G or mono green elves were curb stomped twenty weeks in a row... After this abysmal stretch stopped playing and haven't played since; the affect of MH2 also increased the average price of a competitive modern decks as well. I guess money was never the issue how ever when one builds/buys a few modern decks a year such things do add up but I digress. I miss the days before the dark times... before MH2... MH2 ruined other decks I played as well; don't get me wrong I have a a play set of all the power MH2 cards but I rarely play them because how they ruined playing elves. Modern as format in general is stagnant and has been for some time; the main or core elements of three arch deck types dominate a once creative format-- creativity and diversity have melted away likes tears in the rain...
Infect was dead before mh2 but mh2 made sure it’s nerve coming back
I gave up on modern after MH2. We now get our "eternal" formats hard rotated every 2 years with premium priced horizon sets. i never played standard because of rotation and now only play edh and pioneer ( until pioneer horizons comes around)
My new favorite three color deck is Yund. LoL
Sad but true, I had to give up both jund and humans and I've played jund for years, not to talk about infect with Once Upon a Time the most fun I had in ages.
I'm sad because I feel that modern is a lot less open than it used to be
Carl lookin like Volkan Baga art in the thumbnail xD
Is it a good thing?
@@CardmarketMagic absolutely... Volkan Baga does some amazing art for MTG
Carl's pose just made me laugh and it reminded me of old-school magic art
I was upset to see my decks get power creeped out.
Jund is still good I don't like the fact heliods company fell off
Merfolk lost exactly one thing: Uro in the metagame
Most of my artifact decks died when Mox Opal got banned.
Sad about Jund.
I like how everyone complains about MH2 and there's almost never anything good to say about it but Wizards won't do anything to address it.
It was their top selling product last year. They like it the way it is 💁♂️
It's time to release a format called Modern HorizonLESS, where you basically play Modern as of today cards like MH sets never existed. Wouldn't that be interesting ?
Many people are calling for this!
@@CardmarketMagic If only a big wise company could lauch the trend :DDD