Very nice work. Well done. I've built a few open baffle speakers systems myself and I love the way they sound compare to traditional box speakers. Its a big plus knowing you built them too. You know everything about the speakers if you build them. I recently built a large pair using some old 125 year old barn planks in a resin pour deal that worked out nice. I love the bass that open baffle provides. I used two 18 inch woofer, a 12 inch full range driver, and a horn loaded compression driver mid/tweet on top. The sound is magical. Its not all about the sound quality. Box speakers have great sound quality. To me, the sound presentation is just as important. I get more 3D sound with my open baffles. Great lifelike imaging and depth, transparency, etc. Im a huge fan of open baffles. I will be looking foward to more of your builds!
Thank you very much for your compliments. Your reclaimed wood project sounds like a great build. I've always wanted to do a live edge / slab build but haven't gotten around to it. And I love large format drivers like your 18" woofers. I've only used 18" woofers (Radians) once in kind of open box design with a Tang Band 1808 full range driver. Enjoy your speakers and that OB magic!
Nice build. Great drivers for sure. A demo of the sound may not reveal everything but it would be appreciated. Currently debating for subwoofer detail and infrasound. Open baffle vs. Infinite baffle. Similar but different...
Thank you John. I've played around with demoing the speakers I've built and I know a lot of people do that. But I have found it to be wildly inaccurate in portraying what the speakers actually sound like. Even if it's played back on the same speakers and system. And it's pretty much impossible to hear the OB magic when listening back on box speakers. FWIW, I think I would go infinite baffle if my system was primarily for HT and OB if it was primarily for 2 channel. Good building and listening John!
I am very intrigued by OB systems but my question is ,if they really do sound great (which I don't doubt) why don't speaker manufacturers just make them this way .Seems like a lot less material which would translate to more profit .EDIT : I too am a woodworker and really appreciate the work and craftsmanship involved here .Very well done .
Thank you for your compliments and great question! The short answer is size and placement. OB’s tend to be pretty big and also need 3-4’ behind them to sound their best. The trend for many years now has been towards ported designs that allow speakers to be smaller and still produce some perceived low bass. That being said, there are more and more companies offering finished OB and OB-hybrid speakers. Not only the newer companies like Spatial, Pure Audio Project and Tri-Art but also major brands like ProAc and Legacy. The major brands seem to offer OB-hybrids with bass enclosures as they make for a smaller speaker with wider market potential. That’s my two cents anyway. Thanks again and good listening!
Thanks for your comment and compliments. That's one of the great things about OB speakers, they are easily made from just about any material. I just checked out your build, very nice and reminiscent of the PAP OB's!
Great job, love someone that can create and build like this. I am about to buy a pair of Hawthorne Silver Iris 10" drivers including crossovers that I plan to put together for OB's. ( Hawthorne had Eminence design special speakers just for open Baffle ) so I good start I think.
Hi Alain, Thank you for your compliments. Yes, you are off to a great start! I used many Hawthorne Audio drivers in my builds over the years including the 10" Sterling Silver Iris. The Stirling Silver Iris uses the same mid woofer as the 10" Silver Iris. But instead of the tiny Eminence compression driver it uses a huge Radian compression driver. It also had premium crossover parts. We used to modify the back plate of the compression driver by drilling a hole in the back plate to make it more like a true dipole. The Hawthorne Audio 15" Augie remain my favorite open baffle woofer to this day. Good luck with your build and good listening!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 Thank you, yes keeping an eye out for Augies but very hard to come by. There are many fine woofer drivers available for OB's so will have to see. I won't get the Silver Iris drivers till next month so the wait is on..cheers
Have to admit this is the first time I have seen anyone use the LMS Ultra 5400 in an open baffle. I have been running the Pro 5100's in OB for about 10 years now. I have an LMS Ultra 5400 and two VMP 18's waiting to be turned into a sub. One of these days I will get around to building it. Quick question does the cone move much? Even at fairly high SPL mine would be lucky to move much more than 1mm.
Thanks for your comment. There really is not much excursion with these either even at high SPL's. But probably a little bit more than if they were in an enclosure.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 well that's what I typically hear. That OB typically has more cone movement due to not having a cabinet to control excursion. I thought I wasn't getting much movement because of how big the spider is on the TC Sounds driver, but it might be it is being limited in the active crossover somehow.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering The TC Sounds' mechanical properties do play a big role in controlling excursion. But in this system I think the DEQX DSP is the defining factor in controlling the woofer. Of course how high up the woofer is playing will be a factor as well.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 that is a really good point. I am using a Ground Sound DCN28 (comparable to a DEQX DSP). I can't remember what I am crossing over the woofer at, but I might have a higher order slope on it (can program in up to 4th order).
I have a dream to make a BMS triple coax with 18" myself. I've always been attracted to the coax speakers. How are the BMS 15" triple coax? I wish I could hear these speakers. The open baffle really intrigues me. It's interesting because this has to be a clue in the quest for the perfect lifelike sound.
Hi Tom, The BMS is a wonderful driver if you like single point source drivers. To me the OB sound is as close to live sound as I have heard. I built lots of box speakers over the years (started in 1985) but once I heard a good open baffle I couldn't go back to the sound of box speakers. I hope you get a chance to build yourself a pair, you wont regret it. Good listening!
Hello, Thank you for your comment and compliments. Yes, you could definitely use the Hypex plate amps. I've used Hypex plate amps on the bass before and they work very well; they really have an iron grip on the woofers. And I've always wanted to try an active OB using one of the Hypex 3 way amps but have never gotten around to it. Good luck with your build and good listening!
Thank you for your comments. Not sure I understand your comment about the 12C382 being newer and playing worse? Both are very good drivers just different. The HT Mains are also used for 2 channel listening.
for a pure hometheater diy setup u said u‘d go infinite baffle. would this be like mounting these into a frame and covering the open parts? how much space do u need behind these or how far would the baffle have to extend beyond the face to be considered an infinite baffle ( like for sourounds or ceiling speakers) - do to the same speaker all the way around? thanks for any info and awesome build
Thank you for your comment and I'm sorry for my slow response, I missed this one somehow. Typically infinite baffle is using a room boundary surface to mount the drivers, using the air space behind, either the wall cavity or another room, as the enclosure, so the baffle has effectively become 'infinite'. The term is most often used for in wall speakers and some subwoofer applications. For an in wall design it means that the speaker will be running in half space throughout it's range, and there will be no need for any baffle step compensation. For sub woofers, using an attic or basement space as the speaker enclosure allows the sub to run easily down to and below it's resonant frequency without the use of ports or passive radiators and effectively taking up no room space. I hope this helps and sorry it was so late. Good listening!
Really, really nice work. Just heard a pair of Liisong (Liionidas) OB speakers at the Toronto audio fest. They sounded amazing. If you were to sell, hypothetically, how much would your speakers be? Again, superb work!
Thank you for your comment and compliments! $5000.00 to $20,000.00. The price would vary depending on the complexity of the build, number of drivers and the parts quality and component count of the crossovers. Good listening and I hope you are able to get some OB''s of your own!
Congratulations on a great project. On the dipole, however, there is only one doubt .. In the recording the correct amount of "reverb" is already present at this point is it correct to add so much with a dipole system? Furthermore, the range of frequencies emitted from the rear part of the dipole that are reintroduced into the environment will be strongly influenced by the room in which we listen and difficult to quantify in the design phase of the speaker. I fly over the frequency descent capacity in relation to size and efficiency obviously. In the end, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
Hello Luca and thank you for your comment and compliments. You make some good points and I can only answer with my not very technical opinion from my years of experience. A well designed open baffle produces some of the most natural sound that I have ever heard. It is free of box colorations and sounds to me closest to a live event. I find them easy to place in rooms without too many room interactions. The only caveat being you need at least 3' behind the speaker and I find closer to 4' is better. That being said I feel that proper room treatment is essential for any serious stereo setup. You will see in my room a combination of diffusion and bass absorption behind the speakers and in the corners. I also have diffusion / absorption at the first reflection points and the same on the wall behind the listening position. Of course this is often overlooked but in recent years seems more popular. And now many manufactures are incorporating room correction software in their products which is nice. BTW, I loved watching your solar e-bike build video. Good listening and riding Luca!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 I really appreciate your audiophile point of view which focuses on music and listening pleasure. This is the right spirit to enjoy your system! Too often it happens (even to me ..) to concentrate too much on the technicalities of reproduction ... Dipole systems are only apparently simple while they require careful planning to be timbrically correct. I'm going to try and make a dipole system. I would like to go beyond the "usual" system linked to a low cut bass section and a very attenuated mid-high to align everything ... I was thinking of leaving the mid range in dipole and slightly "loading" the woofers with a "marshall" system in any case to obtain a dipole emission but to have some advantages such as ..1) greater drop in frequency 2) a higher average efficiency of the system 3) better control at the Fs of the woofers 4) a frontal dimension of the lower panel. I have done some simulations on the program I use and they are very promising ..😊 Thanks for everything, it's okay to try other speakers too ..
@@lucacorso_audiosystem I have been guilty of getting too caught up in the gear and putting the music second too. And I agree, the bass is the tricky part of OB but it sounds wonderful if you can get it right. I have built only one open-back box project and it sounded pretty good. I used a Radian 18" woofer with a Tangband 1808. You can see a couple pics of it in this video starting at about 4:21: th-cam.com/video/CfgEbVxt4AA/w-d-xo.html Your project sounds like and good one, let me know how things turn out!
Hi, wonderfull work, i love open baffle, and i make someone with stone. I use alpha 15 Eminence and Circular Horn with Beyma 755 ti. You Can see on youtube m'y work, i use stone. "Open baffle et baffle plan 18190". I live in France, poor France...
Thank you for your compliments. I watched your video, liked and subscribed. Wonderful looking speakers and I bet they sound great. The cement baffles must make for some really solid bass. And I love horns but have never incorporated them into an OB build. Lots of waveguides but no horns. I have very found memories of my 4 months spent in France in the winter of 2017-2018 (and what a winter that was!) We were mostly in SW France in the countryside around Angouleme and Cahors. Although we did get some spring snowboarding in the Pyrenes at Ax-les-Therme. BTW I used to have that same Grant Fidelity / Yaqin 300B integrated I see tucked under there. Good listening!
What made you go with the TC 18” Ultra sub on those? Did you have them on hand already? I’m curious since they are no longer manufactured. I remember them being the cream of the crop about 10yrs ago. I used to drool over that driver so it’s fun to see a new build with a couple of them. Once I found the Funk TSAD18vS I never looked back but those TC’s sure had a huge following back in the day :) I bet those OB sound great! Beautiful build friend.
Hi Tim, Thank you for your compliments. This is an older build that was done when the TC's were still available and quite popular. They were an incredible driver, the magnet alone weighed 60 lbs.! The TSAD18vS looks like an awesome driver as well and a hell of a lot lighter....
Hi, I'm looking for guidance on building a stereo pair of OB-subs to go with LXmini for 2-ch use. I'll be using two 12" Peerless XLS 830500 drivers in each 'baffle' (4 sub drivers total). Looking for creative design and materials to match well with LXmini aesthetic. Hoping to avoid H-frame, W-frame, V-frame because they look hideous and don't jibe with LXmini 'look' - also hoping to avoid wood, flat parallel panels, or anything else that easily resonates. One idea it's to use schedule 80 CPVC (or lesser grade) pipe standing vertically, or each driver in their own horizontal pipe stacked atop each other. In an effort to help them play low as possible, how can the optimum tube length (similar to H-frame depth) and set-back (from the front) be determined? I don't find any software that addresses open baffle subs. Hoping you might share your insights - sincerely appreciated!
Well, there is a lot to unpack here. First off, I would consider the LXmini more of an omni-directional speaker than an OB but you probably know that. And I'm guessing you already have the Peerless woofers because I show them as no longer available? The Peerless woofers have a Qts. of .20 which I would consider way to low to be a good choice for an OB sub. So, out of all the options you listed, I would think the vertical pipe option would be the best choice. Either sealed or ported and with some acoustic stuffing added. Plus I think they would be the best match visually for your LXminis. Any box calculator software should give you the recommended volumes. For calculating the volume of a cylinder you can go here: www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume Also, there is a lot of good info on your drivers here: www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/297-608-peerless--40078.pdf Since you have four of these and probably don't want four big cylinders in your room you might considering some type of isobaric application using two woofers per side in one enclosure. I really like isobaric subs and find them to deliver fast, clean bass when done right. Not sure if any of this helps but good luck with your build and have fun!
That is definitely another option. I guess what I meant was not everyone is going to like the music (or the content). A few people have commented negatively about the music. And a few people have asked where they can download it.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 The problem lies with the repetition of the track for the entire 7:31 minutes, that kind of equals..like TELL A VISION BRAINWASH. Other than that its fine for one play.
Hello and thank you for your comment. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the driver. If you are looking for bass response from a woofer then yes, you want decent Xmax and a high Qts; higher than .4 usually. I prefer .75 to 100. Currently I am running two Beyma 10B60v2 mids in a narrow open baffle and get good output into the 80 Hz range. I am not needing them to play lower than that. They have a Qts of .47 and a Xmax of 31 MM. These parameters are not as important for things like dipole ribbons and planers where you are not expecting them to output bass. Good luck with your build and good listening!
@@brenthawkins204 Yes, I use two for mid-range drivers in a MTM configuration with a BG NEO8 PDR in the center. They go low enough to smoothly hand off to two 10" Hawthorne Audio (now defunct) Augies. I buy my Beymas from Al at US Speaker who is a very helpful guy. www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2010BR60v2-1.htm
I've never listened to open backed speakers, so not sure what i would expect to hear? would this be the equivilent to open backed headphones; is the triaxial driver responceable for highs and mids as well?
Hi Andrew, Headphones and speakers offer such a different sound experience that I think its hard to compare the two. I listened to some STAX many years ago but it's been too many years for me to remember well enough to compare. OB speakers have a very relaxed and open sound and, with the sound radiating front and back, they are the closest thing to being there live that I have experienced. I started building OB speakers around 2006 and haven't really enjoyed boxed speakers since then. The possible exception would be the Kaiser Kawero speakers that I found to be and exceptional sounding box speaker. But at around $50K a bit out of my budget I'm afraid!
Hi Andrew, I just realized I didn't answer your questions about the triaxial speaker's range. Yes, their frequency range is listed as 40 Hz - 22,00 Hz and a rated efficiency of 98 db. I doubt they hit 40 Hz in an OB maybe 70-80 Hz before quickly rolling off.
Hi John, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing my builds. My guess is you have either not heard an OB speaker or at least not a good one done right. If you have and don't like OB bass I'm OK with that too. Good listening!
Thanks for your comment. Yes, on this speaker the upper frequencies are not dipole. Not sure if the cutoff is at 800 Hz but that's probably pretty close. On most of my builds using coaxial drivers I modify the back plates to expose the rear of the compression driver which makes it more of a true dipole.
Hello, Thank you for your comment and I'm sorry for my slow response. I don't build anymore, I am retried and spend my days relaxing and listening to music. Thanks again for inquiring and good listening!
I don't understand the open baffle concept?? I thought that when a speaker especially a woofer plays in a cabinet that if the back of the cabinet is not is not closed off that the waves created from the woofer coming back to it rest position would cancel out the waves that the woofer created when the bass note hit.
Hello Joe.C.1971, I don't think "waves" is necessarily the correct terminology for what you are describing here. I think back "pressure" would be a more accurate description of the function of a box. The pressure exerted against the returning driver cone by the volume of the box becomes part of the mechanical suspension of the driver. So, based on the TS parameters of a given driver, the box volume would be calculated for optimal performance. Open baffle drivers have different TS parameters; namely a higher QTS (ideally above .5 to 1 in my experience) which enables them to play well in free air. Where OB really shines (IMO) is in the "you are there" realism of sound waves radiating both front and back. I find his is particular apparent and important in the bass region. Hopefully my attempt to answer your question is technically correct enough that I don't get lambasted!
Additionally, a significant performance advantage is the manner in which the room's influence is diminished via open baffle as compared to typical monopole box designs.
Very nice work. Well done. I've built a few open baffle speakers systems myself and I love the way they sound compare to traditional box speakers. Its a big plus knowing you built them too. You know everything about the speakers if you build them. I recently built a large pair using some old 125 year old barn planks in a resin pour deal that worked out nice. I love the bass that open baffle provides. I used two 18 inch woofer, a 12 inch full range driver, and a horn loaded compression driver mid/tweet on top. The sound is magical. Its not all about the sound quality. Box speakers have great sound quality. To me, the sound presentation is just as important. I get more 3D sound with my open baffles. Great lifelike imaging and depth, transparency, etc. Im a huge fan of open baffles. I will be looking foward to more of your builds!
Thank you very much for your compliments. Your reclaimed wood project sounds like a great build. I've always wanted to do a live edge / slab build but haven't gotten around to it. And I love large format drivers like your 18" woofers. I've only used 18" woofers (Radians) once in kind of open box design with a Tang Band 1808 full range driver. Enjoy your speakers and that OB magic!
wow. sounds like a great project . would you happen to have a video of those speakers please?. would love to see/hear them. Cheers
This is a lovely build and very inspiring
nice woodwork, plenty of patience and hard work.
Beautiful job on those speakers. Thank you for the nice video.
Thank you Jack and I'm glad you enjoyed my video. Good listening!
Man I would love to hear these things... if they sound 1/4 as good and beefy as they look they must be amazing.
Nice build. Great drivers for sure. A demo of the sound may not reveal everything but it would be appreciated. Currently debating for subwoofer detail and infrasound. Open baffle vs. Infinite baffle. Similar but different...
Thank you John. I've played around with demoing the speakers I've built and I know a lot of people do that. But I have found it to be wildly inaccurate in portraying what the speakers actually sound like. Even if it's played back on the same speakers and system. And it's pretty much impossible to hear the OB magic when listening back on box speakers. FWIW, I think I would go infinite baffle if my system was primarily for HT and OB if it was primarily for 2 channel. Good building and listening John!
Okay this is the second time I'm watching this, so I figured I should give you two comments
Beautiful. Well done!
I am very intrigued by OB systems but my question is ,if they really do sound great (which I don't doubt) why don't speaker manufacturers just make them this way .Seems like a lot less material which would translate to more profit .EDIT : I too am a woodworker and really appreciate the work and craftsmanship involved here .Very well done .
Thank you for your compliments and great question!
The short answer is size and placement. OB’s tend to be pretty big and also need 3-4’ behind them to sound their best.
The trend for many years now has been towards ported designs that allow speakers to be smaller and still produce some perceived low bass.
That being said, there are more and more companies offering finished OB and OB-hybrid speakers. Not only the newer companies like Spatial, Pure Audio Project and Tri-Art but also major brands like ProAc and Legacy. The major brands seem to offer OB-hybrids with bass enclosures as they make for a smaller speaker with wider market potential. That’s my two cents anyway.
Thanks again and good listening!
Sehr schöne Lautsprecher, die würde ich gerne mal anhören 😃👍🔈
Very interesting construction. Beautifully projected and made.
Great idea.
I made OB on steel frame, but your construction is really amazing
Thanks for your comment and compliments. That's one of the great things about OB speakers, they are easily made from just about any material. I just checked out your build, very nice and reminiscent of the PAP OB's!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 PAP Duet (old version) was my inspiration🙂
Great job, love someone that can create and build like this. I am about to buy a pair of Hawthorne Silver Iris 10" drivers including crossovers that I plan to put together for OB's. ( Hawthorne had Eminence design special speakers just for open Baffle ) so I good start I think.
Hi Alain, Thank you for your compliments. Yes, you are off to a great start! I used many Hawthorne Audio drivers in my builds over the years including the 10" Sterling Silver Iris. The Stirling Silver Iris uses the same mid woofer as the 10" Silver Iris. But instead of the tiny Eminence compression driver it uses a huge Radian compression driver. It also had premium crossover parts. We used to modify the back plate of the compression driver by drilling a hole in the back plate to make it more like a true dipole. The Hawthorne Audio 15" Augie remain my favorite open baffle woofer to this day. Good luck with your build and good listening!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 Thank you, yes keeping an eye out for Augies but very hard to come by. There are many fine woofer drivers available for OB's so will have to see. I won't get the Silver Iris drivers till next month so the wait is on..cheers
cool build dude.
Beautiful, I'm sure the sound matches. :)
Ha Ha those LMS 5400's are overkill I would think. but so cool
Have to admit this is the first time I have seen anyone use the LMS Ultra 5400 in an open baffle. I have been running the Pro 5100's in OB for about 10 years now. I have an LMS Ultra 5400 and two VMP 18's waiting to be turned into a sub. One of these days I will get around to building it. Quick question does the cone move much? Even at fairly high SPL mine would be lucky to move much more than 1mm.
Thanks for your comment. There really is not much excursion with these either even at high SPL's. But probably a little bit more than if they were in an enclosure.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 well that's what I typically hear. That OB typically has more cone movement due to not having a cabinet to control excursion. I thought I wasn't getting much movement because of how big the spider is on the TC Sounds driver, but it might be it is being limited in the active crossover somehow.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering The TC Sounds' mechanical properties do play a big role in controlling excursion. But in this system I think the DEQX DSP is the defining factor in controlling the woofer. Of course how high up the woofer is playing will be a factor as well.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 that is a really good point. I am using a Ground Sound DCN28 (comparable to a DEQX DSP). I can't remember what I am crossing over the woofer at, but I might have a higher order slope on it (can program in up to 4th order).
It is not DIY when you have a frickin wood factory at home :)
I have a dream to make a BMS triple coax with 18" myself. I've always been attracted to the coax speakers. How are the BMS 15" triple coax? I wish I could hear these speakers. The open baffle really intrigues me. It's interesting because this has to be a clue in the quest for the perfect lifelike sound.
Hi Tom, The BMS is a wonderful driver if you like single point source drivers. To me the OB sound is as close to live sound as I have heard. I built lots of box speakers over the years (started in 1985) but once I heard a good open baffle I couldn't go back to the sound of box speakers. I hope you get a chance to build yourself a pair, you wont regret it. Good listening!
Nice built!
Is this 3axial made for pa or high end home audio? I’m listening to b&c 15cxn88 and that’s made for pa! Its not ‘refined’…..
Just.... WOW!
Nice work !!!!
If I wanted to copy most of this build, could I use Hypex dsp plate amps for build ?
Hello, Thank you for your comment and compliments. Yes, you could definitely use the Hypex plate amps. I've used Hypex plate amps on the bass before and they work very well; they really have an iron grip on the woofers. And I've always wanted to try an active OB using one of the Hypex 3 way amps but have never gotten around to it. Good luck with your build and good listening!
Super nice
Thank you and good listening!
Looks amazing :) Why fronts uses BMS 12CN860 and rears BMS 12C382? BMS 12C382 is newer and play worse? What speakers do You use for stereo sound?
Thank you for your comments. Not sure I understand your comment about the 12C382 being newer and playing worse? Both are very good drivers just different. The HT Mains are also used for 2 channel listening.
for a pure hometheater diy setup u said u‘d go infinite baffle. would this be like mounting these into a frame and covering the open parts? how much space do u need behind these or how far would the baffle have to extend beyond the face to be considered an infinite baffle ( like for sourounds or ceiling speakers) - do to the same speaker all the way around? thanks for any info and awesome build
Thank you for your comment and I'm sorry for my slow response, I missed this one somehow. Typically infinite baffle is using a room boundary surface to mount the drivers, using the air space behind, either the wall cavity or another room, as the enclosure, so the baffle has effectively become 'infinite'. The term is most often used for in wall speakers and some subwoofer applications. For an in wall design it means that the speaker will be running in half space throughout it's range, and there will be no need for any baffle step compensation. For sub woofers, using an attic or basement space as the speaker enclosure allows the sub to run easily down to and below it's resonant frequency without the use of ports or passive radiators and effectively taking up no room space. I hope this helps and sorry it was so late. Good listening!
Really, really nice work. Just heard a pair of Liisong (Liionidas) OB speakers at the Toronto audio fest. They sounded amazing. If you were to sell, hypothetically, how much would your speakers be? Again, superb work!
Thank you for your comment and compliments! $5000.00 to $20,000.00. The price would vary depending on the complexity of the build, number of drivers and the parts quality and component count of the crossovers. Good listening and I hope you are able to get some OB''s of your own!
Congratulations on a great project. On the dipole, however, there is only one doubt .. In the recording the correct amount of "reverb" is already present at this point is it correct to add so much with a dipole system? Furthermore, the range of frequencies emitted from the rear part of the dipole that are reintroduced into the environment will be strongly influenced by the room in which we listen and difficult to quantify in the design phase of the speaker. I fly over the frequency descent capacity in relation to size and efficiency obviously. In the end, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
Hello Luca and thank you for your comment and compliments. You make some good points and I can only answer with my not very technical opinion from my years of experience. A well designed open baffle produces some of the most natural sound that I have ever heard. It is free of box colorations and sounds to me closest to a live event. I find them easy to place in rooms without too many room interactions. The only caveat being you need at least 3' behind the speaker and I find closer to 4' is better. That being said I feel that proper room treatment is essential for any serious stereo setup. You will see in my room a combination of diffusion and bass absorption behind the speakers and in the corners. I also have diffusion / absorption at the first reflection points and the same on the wall behind the listening position. Of course this is often overlooked but in recent years seems more popular. And now many manufactures are incorporating room correction software in their products which is nice. BTW, I loved watching your solar e-bike build video. Good listening and riding Luca!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 I really appreciate your audiophile point of view which focuses on music and listening pleasure. This is the right spirit to enjoy your system! Too often it happens (even to me ..) to concentrate too much on the technicalities of reproduction ... Dipole systems are only apparently simple while they require careful planning to be timbrically correct. I'm going to try and make a dipole system. I would like to go beyond the "usual" system linked to a low cut bass section and a very attenuated mid-high to align everything ... I was thinking of leaving the mid range in dipole and slightly "loading" the woofers with a "marshall" system in any case to obtain a dipole emission but to have some advantages such as ..1) greater drop in frequency 2) a higher average efficiency of the system 3) better control at the Fs of the woofers 4) a frontal dimension of the lower panel. I have done some simulations on the program I use and they are very promising ..😊 Thanks for everything, it's okay to try other speakers too ..
@@lucacorso_audiosystem I have been guilty of getting too caught up in the gear and putting the music second too. And I agree, the bass is the tricky part of OB but it sounds wonderful if you can get it right. I have built only one open-back box project and it sounded pretty good. I used a Radian 18" woofer with a Tangband 1808. You can see a couple pics of it in this video starting at about 4:21:
th-cam.com/video/CfgEbVxt4AA/w-d-xo.html
Your project sounds like and good one, let me know how things turn out!
Hi, wonderfull work, i love open baffle, and i make someone with stone.
I use alpha 15 Eminence and
Circular Horn with Beyma 755 ti.
You Can see on youtube m'y work, i use stone.
"Open baffle et baffle plan 18190".
I live in France, poor France...
Thank you for your compliments.
I watched your video, liked and subscribed. Wonderful looking speakers and I bet they sound great. The cement baffles must make for some really solid bass. And I love horns but have never incorporated them into an OB build. Lots of waveguides but no horns. I have very found memories of my 4 months spent in France in the winter of 2017-2018 (and what a winter that was!) We were mostly in SW France in the countryside around Angouleme and Cahors. Although we did get some spring snowboarding in the Pyrenes at Ax-les-Therme. BTW I used to have that same Grant Fidelity / Yaqin 300B integrated I see tucked under there. Good listening!
What made you go with the TC 18” Ultra sub on those?
Did you have them on hand already?
I’m curious since they are no longer manufactured. I remember them being the cream of the crop about 10yrs ago. I used to drool over that driver so it’s fun to see a new build with a couple of them. Once I found the Funk TSAD18vS I never looked back but those TC’s sure had a huge following back in the day :) I bet those OB sound great!
Beautiful build friend.
Hi Tim,
Thank you for your compliments.
This is an older build that was done when the TC's were still available and quite popular. They were an incredible driver, the magnet alone weighed 60 lbs.! The TSAD18vS looks like an awesome driver as well and a hell of a lot lighter....
What is the music you used? Very nice speakers and great finish.
Thank you for your compliments. The music is stock, non-copywrited music that comes with the editing software I use.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 I meant, what is the title of the track. I like it, and would to have it in my collection...if possible.
@@Robgdance It's just a background loop titled "Camp in the Woods" that is included with the editing software. But I like it too.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 Thank you. found it on youtube.
👍
Hi, I'm looking for guidance on building a stereo pair of OB-subs to go with LXmini for 2-ch use. I'll be using two 12" Peerless XLS 830500 drivers in each 'baffle' (4 sub drivers total). Looking for creative design and materials to match well with LXmini aesthetic. Hoping to avoid H-frame, W-frame, V-frame because they look hideous and don't jibe with LXmini 'look' - also hoping to avoid wood, flat parallel panels, or anything else that easily resonates. One idea it's to use schedule 80 CPVC (or lesser grade) pipe standing vertically, or each driver in their own horizontal pipe stacked atop each other. In an effort to help them play low as possible, how can the optimum tube length (similar to H-frame depth) and set-back (from the front) be determined? I don't find any software that addresses open baffle subs. Hoping you might share your insights - sincerely appreciated!
Well, there is a lot to unpack here. First off, I would consider the LXmini more of an omni-directional speaker than an OB but you probably know that. And I'm guessing you already have the Peerless woofers because I show them as no longer available? The Peerless woofers have a Qts. of .20 which I would consider way to low to be a good choice for an OB sub. So, out of all the options you listed, I would think the vertical pipe option would be the best choice. Either sealed or ported and with some acoustic stuffing added. Plus I think they would be the best match visually for your LXminis. Any box calculator software should give you the recommended volumes. For calculating the volume of a cylinder you can go here: www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume
Also, there is a lot of good info on your drivers here: www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/297-608-peerless--40078.pdf
Since you have four of these and probably don't want four big cylinders in your room you might considering some type of isobaric application using two woofers per side in one enclosure. I really like isobaric subs and find them to deliver fast, clean bass when done right. Not sure if any of this helps but good luck with your build and have fun!
Excellent build, but the music got irritating after like 3+ minutes :-}}
Thanks, that's what the Mute button's for I guess.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 Yep..that would be a solution OR maybe...maybe a better background music to get a better flow with the build.
That is definitely another option. I guess what I meant was not everyone is going to like the music (or the content). A few people have commented negatively about the music. And a few people have asked where they can download it.
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 The problem lies with the repetition of the track for the entire 7:31 minutes, that kind of equals..like TELL A VISION BRAINWASH. Other than that its fine for one play.
I need specifics on how to pick out OB speakers. Xmax and Qts. So any speaker with alot of xmax and a Qts of .4 or higher?
Hello and thank you for your comment. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the driver. If you are looking for bass response from a woofer then yes, you want decent Xmax and a high Qts; higher than .4 usually. I prefer .75 to 100. Currently I am running two Beyma 10B60v2 mids in a narrow open baffle and get good output into the 80 Hz range. I am not needing them to play lower than that. They have a Qts of .47 and a Xmax of 31 MM. These parameters are not as important for things like dipole ribbons and planers where you are not expecting them to output bass. Good luck with your build and good listening!
@@openbafflespeakerbuilder9863 that's the 10 BR 60 v2 ?
@@brenthawkins204 Yes, I use two for mid-range drivers in a MTM configuration with a BG NEO8 PDR in the center. They go low enough to smoothly hand off to two 10" Hawthorne Audio (now defunct) Augies. I buy my Beymas from Al at US Speaker who is a very helpful guy.
www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2010BR60v2-1.htm
Awesome
I've never listened to open backed speakers, so not sure what i would expect to hear? would this be the equivilent to open backed headphones; is the triaxial driver responceable for highs and mids as well?
Hi Andrew,
Headphones and speakers offer such a different sound experience that I think its hard to compare the two. I listened to some STAX many years ago but it's been too many years for me to remember well enough to compare. OB speakers have a very relaxed and open sound and, with the sound radiating front and back, they are the closest thing to being there live that I have experienced. I started building OB speakers around 2006 and haven't really enjoyed boxed speakers since then. The possible exception would be the Kaiser Kawero speakers that I found to be and exceptional sounding box speaker. But at around $50K a bit out of my budget I'm afraid!
Hi Andrew,
I just realized I didn't answer your questions about the triaxial speaker's range. Yes, their frequency range is listed as 40 Hz - 22,00 Hz and a rated efficiency of 98 db. I doubt they hit 40 Hz in an OB maybe 70-80 Hz before quickly rolling off.
Please don't try to convince me they have any type of low bass note...
Hi John, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing my builds. My guess is you have either not heard an OB speaker or at least not a good one done right. If you have and don't like OB bass I'm OK with that too. Good listening!
so it is an OB untill 800Hz and front firing horn above?
Thanks for your comment. Yes, on this speaker the upper frequencies are not dipole. Not sure if the cutoff is at 800 Hz but that's probably pretty close. On most of my builds using coaxial drivers I modify the back plates to expose the rear of the compression driver which makes it more of a true dipole.
Where can I buy from you?
Hello, Thank you for your comment and I'm sorry for my slow response. I don't build anymore, I am retried and spend my days relaxing and listening to music. Thanks again for inquiring and good listening!
wow
I don't understand the open baffle concept?? I thought that when a speaker especially a woofer plays in a cabinet that if the back of the cabinet is not is not closed off that the waves created from the woofer coming back to it rest position would cancel out the waves that the woofer created when the bass note hit.
Hello Joe.C.1971, I don't think "waves" is necessarily the correct terminology for what you are describing here. I think back "pressure" would be a more accurate description of the function of a box. The pressure exerted against the returning driver cone by the volume of the box becomes part of the mechanical suspension of the driver. So, based on the TS parameters of a given driver, the box volume would be calculated for optimal performance. Open baffle drivers have different TS parameters; namely a higher QTS (ideally above .5 to 1 in my experience) which enables them to play well in free air. Where OB really shines (IMO) is in the "you are there" realism of sound waves radiating both front and back. I find his is particular apparent and important in the bass region. Hopefully my attempt to answer your question is technically correct enough that I don't get lambasted!
Additionally, a significant performance advantage is the manner in which the room's influence is diminished via open baffle as compared to typical monopole box designs.
Aqustic