GAME DESIGN THEORY: I believe this is a remnant of scrapped encounter that would have included brutes and elites fighting each other, similar to how the Flood and Covenant (and elites and brutes in Halo 2) would be encountered in other Halos in scenes where they’d already be fighting when you stumbled upon them. LORE: Because this mission specifically takes place so incredibly soon after Regret’s carrier departs for Installation 05, there’s NO WAY there’d be any sort of talks about peace with the Sangheili for almost a full day and a half afterward - AFTER when the Arbiter, Commander Keyes, and Sergeant Johnson cooperated to stop Tartarus. When DARE said “it’s classified”, she meant the UNSC had observed “infighting” between many command groups of Covenant forces in select (quickly growing) swaths of Covenant engagements. It wasn’t that “only the high command knew about the alliance”, it was because there WAS no alliance yet and ONI was still like “YO WTF RN THEY FIGHTING”
The alliance wasn't ratified til two weeks later as a cease-fire agreement, then March next year. It was official alliance for technological exchange & protection.
Yeah, from game design perspective I'd say this is probably a remnant of an idea they wanted to do with having them actively fighting each other within view, but didn't have the development resources for. I suspect it was dropped early on for the same reason there are no other friendly covenant species in Halo 3 besides elites; because it would be difficult to tell whose Grunts/Jackals are on whose team fighting each other. Otherwise it'd just be Elites fighting all the other covenant types.
Yes, but the elites was the main force of the covenants and the prophets at this moment, in this it's the brutes (because they use more of Halo 3), and this hapens before the elites are betrayed, so it's not 100% exacly correct, but it's true
@@willb1156 yeah not completely but there's definitely some buffer room between when the schism happened I think. And brutes hated elites all along anyway. So maybe it was a sign of things to come!
Buck: hey Veronica? whats with all these dead Elites? Dare: oh that was you from an alternate reality, you tested to see if they were friendly's then killed them. Buck:....oh
I bet Bungie was planning on spawning live Elites, (which if true would explain why they went through the effort to change their team). Man... it would have been really cool to fight Elites as an ODST. They're so much more threatening than Brutes. A shame they ended up making them all dead.
Noah are u crazy elites fight using their brain they make strategies not like those brutes who just solely depend on brute strength it's harder to kill brutes than elites in both lore and game u fucking idiot .
It would have been cool to also see not just the Elites fighting brutes, but the grunts and hunters as well (against brutes, jackals and drones). Then later on throughout the game when all the elites are killed, you can see the grunts and hunters either submitting to the brutes or getting killed off and replaced with Truth's loyalists. At least it would explain why the grunts and hunters weren't on your side in Halo 3.
Don't take my word for it, but in my last CEA playthrough on PC a marine killed me, and during my death animation I thought I saw the other marines shoot him. Maybe they were shooting something else but it gave me that impression.
I'm guesing it's a leftover of early game design, that MAYBE the Elites were still gonna be the main fighting force of the Covenant in ODST, or we'd see the beginning of the Great Schism, after all it takes place across the first 6-8 hours after Regret flees Earth, so the Elites were still the main fighting force. The problem this creates is that it clashes with Halo 3's design of The Brute Pack, and how the sandbox and other enemy AI is designed to interact in tandem with the Halo 3 Brutes, so Bungie just opted to remain consistant with Halo 3 and keep the Brutes as the main fighting force and simply handwave the Elites on Earth as stragglers that couldn't foresee the betrayal.
These were my exact thoughts, and I wonder why GeneralKidd is always so naive with this kind of thing. It's so much more likely that Elites were originally going to be part of the gameplay and were later cut than the idea that Bungie gave them a special tag as an easter egg for modders.
I would assume they were going to handle it the same way they handled Reach and even the way they did the H2 E3 demo which is that they were going to have BOTH Elites and Brutes as Covenant forces but not necessarily spawn at the same time. I'm not 100% certain on the timeline but I don't quite think the Elites would have actually been betrayed by this point in the timeline as I'm fairly certain that Truth's forces reached Earth yet and Regret had no part in the schism until he was killed so his leftover forces shouldn't be in formal conflict; at best power vacuums might lead to minor skirmishes between the two species. It IS possible that the betrayal would be seen on screen at some point hence the Covenant and Prophet team tags both being enemy.
Luke Maurer halo 3 ODST was made after halo 2 when they had already fought meaning Bungie just didn’t think ahead and added the bodies before the betrayal happened also it’s not an Easter egg it’s a problem with the scripting as the dead bodies don’t have a faction as they don’t need one meaning when they are spawned alive they will register as hostile in the games engine also the elites where dead in spots where it seems like battles occurred meaning that Bungie may have just wanted to keep the elites relevant unlike other species.
It was disappointing that the elites in ODST are never shown alive. How cool would it have been to fight the elites with Halo 3's sandbox design in place? Maybe halfway through the game, we could learn the brutes betrayed the elites and for the last couple of missions, you get elite allies. Some dedicated modders need to make this happen when ODST comes to MCC PC.
Realistically, it would’ve been a two-front war for the Elites at the time cuz they wouldn’t probably just align themselves with the UNSC just like that at the time and would probably fight both them and the Covenant (and, as you see, lose).
@Dracen Walter yeah someone told me 343 are adding the games to MCC on PC slowly one after another to avoid the Xbox release in 2014 which was a disaster
Makes me wonder if Bungie was going to show the Brutes and the Elites fighting each other during Tayari Plaza, but maybe due to time or tech they couldn't get it working. Or during the flashback scenes we would have fought the Elites, then the Brutes come, then we fight Brutes. I don't know how much dialogue Bungie recorded specifically for Covenant for ODST. They might have just not wanted to do much new recording either, and just recycle as much as possible. Remember this wasn't supposed to be a full game at first. Was only going to be a $15-$20 DLC for Halo 3.
@Thomas Houghton They didn't port much over from Halo2 though. It was built from the ground up. They basically said so in one of the ViDocs, and how it just ballooned from a DLC to a full game. I'm pretty sure Marty was only supposed to write a couple new pieces for it, but then it turned into a whole new soundtrack. I think that, just like most Bungie games, they went for 100, but could never do more than 75.
@@Doctor_D0M3 Actually I don't think they had to make ODST a full game to meet the contract. I think their ambition got in the way and they just made a game that was bigger and longer. In fact I think they had to lobby Microsoft, not for very long I'm sure, to have a bigger budget for the game. And who knows. Maybe they made ODST a full game to pay for start-up on Destiny.
Not sure why they couldn't get it working. There is already AI for the elites fighting the rest of the covenant in Halo 3 and AI set for when the player betrays them because they were friendly in Halo 3. So they could've just set their AI to always act as if the player betrayed them. Perhaps they just didn't want to deal with it or a time issue but I think it could've been done.
@@SoulbentAnime I think there were multiple reasons, but I think the biggest were time, making it look good, and voice acting. Also could have been a last minute thing they tested and decided it didn't add enough.
When Buck finds the dead elites, that seems to be even before The Great Schism. So the hostility between this group of brutes and elites was before even that. Hence, why it might be classified.
It would have been so cool if in Halo 4, The Arbiter's portion of the Covenant find Master Chief and then we fight the rest of the Covenant together just like old times.
Doesn't really make sense for the timeline. Halo ODST takes place on the 20th and 21st of October 2552 and the changing of the guard doesn't take place until 3rd of November 2552 nearly 2 weeks later. There is literally no reason for Brutes and Elites to be fighting considering Regret is still alive at the point in which this mission takes places.
In the other halo games, often times the devs would spawn Living AI at the beginning of the mission....and then they are insta-killed and they fall to their spot dead on the ground. Are these elites alive for a split second when they spawn?
It makes sense since ODST takes place during the supercarriers jump to Delta Halo. The Elites left on Earth were probably left to die by the Prophets while the useful idiots were gone searching for the Sacred Icon.
Not finished the video yet but I've heard that no elites are alive in ODST because it was too hard to remove the "friendly" flag on their AI in Halo 3 engine. And at this point in the story, they are not friendly yet with human.
That's hilarious, depressing, and stupid all at once, because the Halo 3/ODST engine makes it very easy to configure an AI's alliance in regards to the player and other AI.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Yes but maybe with their H3 AI behavior they would keep call you Spartan or say usual friendly lines and it would have taken too long to remove and modify everything. ODST is not a full game and didn't have as much development time as the other Halo. The easiest way to deal with that was to show elites already dead.
@Toucan Game Studio although it might take a while as I don't think halo 3 has any genuine halo CE/2 sangheili lines apart from "Wort Wort Wort" using the IWHBYD skull. This reminds me of "Inferno Plus"' struggle for modding halo 2s gravity and physics
We should’ve fought elites in the first mission chronologically, then seen brutes and elites fighting later on, and finally fought just brutes in mombasa streets. I smell a much needed overhaul mod when the PC version fiiiiinally comes out.
Regular Old Plumbus finding some injured, disarmed elites in data Hive, spec ops or some other who might have Sangheili intel connections would make sense.
ODST takes place almost 2 weeks before the great Schism. Buck found the dead elites literally 2 minutes after Regret left for Delta Halo. So how can Dare have prior knowledge of the Great Schism nearly 2 weeks before it even happened?
2 weeks? Pretty sure it happens a few days after new Mombasa. Pretty much the same day after chief kills regret the great schism starts. The elites in new Mombasa though were definitely enemies, because this they are the same forces tasked with invading earth. I really wish they were enemies in ODST!
@@rhysnichols8608 ODST took place on Oct/20th. The Great Schism started on Nov/2nd. When Regret left Earth, a whole 1.5 weeks passed for him and the In Amber Clad before they arrived at Delta Halo. On Earth, Buck literally found dead Elites 2 minutes after Regret made the jump. The reason they were dead before the Great Schism broke out was because Truth & Tartarus were already in the middle of their plan of eradicating them, and this was done silently. Regret's assassination by the Chief was simply a happy accident for Truth as it now allowed him an excuse to replace the elites publicly without having to do it secret. Anyway, whether it happened a few days or weeks after ODST, the fact remains; Buck found dead elites that were - and I quote *"Looks like they were killed by brutes"* BEFORE the Great Schism broke out. And Dare saying it was classified means she already knew of the fued before it even happened. The question is; How?
Unfortunately it seems like a plot hole on Bungie's part (Not surprising considering there dev cycle) but hear me out. ONI without a doubt knew about the Grunt Rebellions and the rivalry between the jackals and grunts, because these things feature very heavily in the games with jackals fucking with grunts in cutscenes. As we all know, brutes and elites fucking HATE eachother, so I'm willing to bet ONI has discovered scenes like this before, possibly with the races' respective colony worlds being attacked by the other. Also someone else pointed out that there could have been a clandestine purging of elites in the covenant structure, and since Truth knew that this was the portal to the Ark, he wouldn't want elites anywhere near such a holy artifact. One Regret leaves and the chain of command goes haywire, Truth could have given the order. This alternatively means maybe ONI intercepted the Covenant transmission (I would assume Earth is one hell of a listening post) and have asked ground teams to confirm or deny these reports.
@Ryan Morgan I would assume ONI knew of these rivalries prior to the Great Schism through multiple operatives on the field observing these acts covertly over some extended period of time. Given the level of development of rivalry between the Sangheili and the Jiralhanae, they would be able to assume that some sort of uprising would begin again - but this might be pushing the lore a bit too far. Alternatively; since ONI do have a habit of doing everything ‘behind closed doors’, perhaps they captured some Covenant units and interrogated them for information, such as knowledge of their hierarchy, class-structures and previous uprisings within the Covenant - though this could be stretching the lore a little bit...
As soon as Regret's fleet leaves the remaining Covenant forces on Earth are totally cut off, then Truth arrives (I assume Truth's ships are the ones that glass New Mombasa at the end, since only one of Regret's ships from his small fleet broke through to Earth) therefore, Truth's Brutes communicate to the ones on the ground to wipe out any elites. Alternatively, Regret's Brutes wipe out the Elites on their own initiative or manage it through infighting, sparked by their role reversal. This could also explain Dare's knowledge, since it's possible UNSC forces have witnessed infighting between Elites and Brutes, so they know something is happening to the Covenant, but they don't know about the Schism since it hasn't happened
I HAVE AN IDEA!. the Mission on halo 3. 'The Covenant' where you fight beside the flood. you should spawn in marines and elite allies to see if they try to attack each other since their teamed up with chief and arbiter, we never knew if the marines and elite knew about the flood teaming up with them. PLEASE SEE THIS I ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW
The Great Schism was the beginning of the end for the faction of Sangheli to be done with the prophets. Because this takes place between the two games, it's safe to say they are still unfriendly, most likely due to the events of halo 2 not being yet completed, and or the Arbitee not rounding up the elites left in to the Shadow of Intent.
Timeline wise, it’s correct that elites are not friendlies “yet”. That at the end of halo 2 not during the middle of halo 2... when this game takes place...
This makes me think it would have so cool if there was a moment in the mombasa streets levels where you could find brutes hunting elites or eleited getting killed. Similar to the section where you see the engineer getting the explosives put on it. Would be a cool attention to detail. Kinda like an 'execute order 66' in game cutscene
It makes sense because halo 3 takes place after halo 3:ODST. By the time thw chief arrives in Halo 3,the brutes have already begun the excavation,it would be expected that the elites would be hostile,as the arbiter has not allied with the humans yet. Therefore they would be considered enemies
My theory is that it's the same thing as the mission Gravemind in Halo 2, where Elites (and also Grunts and Hunters) were enemies to the Brutes (and also the Jackals and Drones), but all of them were still enemies to Master Chief and the Marines.
Just add elites as enemies in firefight that have their own factions species along with them and you have ODST war zone. Of course, it’s easier said than done but the idea.
It seemed extremely weird that we’re fighting brutes in this game instead of elites. Brutes were never on earth during the events of Halo 2. This story takes place right after the carrier jumps space in Halo 2.
Gear Master yeah but brutes were on earth during halo 3, so prophet of truth probably dropped them off to secure the portal to the ark while eliminating elites.
Your “theory” is pretty much spot on: halo 3 ODST happens in the wake of Halo 2’s New Mombasa slipspace explosion. There’s actually videos synchronizing the ODST drop cutscene with the Halo 2 Slipspace in Mew Mombasa cutscene. At that moment UNSC and the covenant are enemies. UNSC hasn’t fought brutes yet. In lore, the prophet of regret already saw the failure of the elites and began replacing them with brutes. A brute ship is sent to New Mombasa to take control of the city and eradicate all elite life. So while the CHIEF is beating to death the prophet of regret, the spread out ODST’s are trying to regain control of New Mombasa from the brutes. That’s basically why elites are both UNSC and the brutes enemies.
@@whocares435-z9v But you get points for killing him. Killing allies who have turned on you will reduce points. I think they put him on the Covenant team.
Well considering that this was after the mission of Metropolis when Solemn Penance slipspace with Master Chief, Avery Johnson, and Miranda Keyes on Amber Clad followed it and before a alliance was made between humanity and the Elites some time right before and after battle against Tartarus and his death it makes sense why the Elites would still be hostile to humanity
I keep hearing stories about living elites and once saw a video a long time ago with an elite fighting other covenant. I have never seen it in the game though.
I'd bet more on the placeholder setting for units being non friendly than them making it about lore. They were not used whatsoever and thus left on the default setting.
The only reason I can think of lore wise for why the elites are dead is that after the carrier jumped, the brutes must of decided to betray the elites early and the elites weren’t expecting it
that is the city from Halo 2 so the Elites are Enemies, Halo 3 ODST is after the jump from the prophets Ship to the other Halo (in Halo2) the odst Mission is to enter the ship But it escaped and that's how they stayed in the city that was destroyed by the jump, strictly speaking this is a story about Halo 2, the third part has relatively little to do with it, if I got that right. I wasn't surprised that the elites there are hostile, but the dialogue between Buck and Veronica (Dare) raises questions that I haven't quite understood yet, maybe you will find a Theroy?
I wonder if Bungie planned to have Elites in the game, alive I mean and we'd have to fight both factions, like in Halo 2 when your Chief on High Charity.
I’m pretty sure this is because the elites split into different factions. Some elites end up helping master chief, namely the arbiter (in halo5) and his followers, but also in halo 5 there are some elites who are against the arbiter.
I wonder if they where going to have elites still be hostile and half way through the game they’d get betrayed by the brutes and then it would have been a ffa the elites vs the covenant vs the marines/ODST But decided to change it and decided to have them dead
It makes sense if you think about it chronologically. During the events of the beginning of halo 3 ODST master chief was either or both on/ above new Mombasa. During this time the elites had tensions with the covenant do to a rebellion faction questioning the covenant (that would eventually be silenced by the arbiter) but still fought in the covenant before the great schism. Elites and brutes are also said to naturally have tensions between each other do to cultural/ ideological differences (elites value honor and faith, brutes value warfare and death) which is why they’re often not seen together in combat
looking at the Halo timeline, the battle of New Mombasa started October 20th. thats when MC got his armor, fought on the station, jumped, and fought more in NM, and then ODST dropped also. by 21st, they recover Vergil. however the Great Schism, where brutes and elites started fighting started November 2nd. so i dont get why they would already have the elites killed off in ODST. i never understoon why in ODST there were no elites and brutes had shields despite Halo 2 had alot of elites and no brutes
I wonder if bungie planned to have something where Elites and Brutes fight but you and marines also get caught in the crossfire. Like how it was in 3 with Setinals and flood fighting you and each other. (Edit) looking through comments, people also has this theory. Would have been cool for it to happen.
The whole covenant didn’t know about what happened to the elites on earth. The Great Schism didn’t occur full scale till the death of the prophet of regrets a few weeks later.
This takes place around the same time the Halo 2 mission Gravemind happens. At that point both factions were still fighting the master chiefs and Marines. But elites and specifically the arbiter did not join the Humans yet.
Would have been cool to see them collectively fighting together (would be neat to see how they treated the brutes under them) and have another sub plot you could see such as the news of the death of Regret, (levels after that would show the brutes taking charge and mistreating the elites dude to years of mistreatment) then have a sort of "order 66" style transition to where they turn on eachother (could have even been a major factor in the later mid part of the game), followed by them becoming rarer and rarer as they are hunted down and betrayed to the point the most you see are corpses, would also show a diffrent balance of enemies as it progressed (early on less high ranking brutes and even have most of them unarmored with more higher ranking elites that transitions to more higher ranking brutes, could even see some of the other covinent races fighting eachother and could have a few neat scenes/easter eggs ("blue on blue ambushes", grunts and other lower ranking races getting confused on who to engage, my favorite idea would be an easter egg where you see a bture getting a transmission from truth and mercy, where an elite ultra is off in an ally peeing on a wall or something, walks up and asks what the transmission was about followed to getting a mauler bayonet to the face followed by follow up execution shot to the head))
Perfect explanation for this, the Sangheili were still fighting the UNSC when the great skisim (Forgive spelling errors) occured. The Elites didnt join forces until weeks later when the Arbiter sent out a call to arms against the prophets and the covenant. From then on bei g the swords of Sangheilios even though it wasnt officially reformed at the time
I think they originally planned for you to see the gate sckisam happen like in halo 2. Also I think the first few missions would have the elites as your main ennermy since it's immediately after the jump so the elites would not have been betrayed yet. The secret order I think became cannon after odst to fix the plot hole odst created
Hopefully when ODST comes out on PC someone manages to make the Elites have proper AI. It would be sweet to have some 3-way battles (elites vs prophet team vs humans). Would be like the levels on high charity in Halo 2. I really liked Ruby's mod for Halo 2 because it had lots of 3-way battles (being able to fight marines as arbiter while also fighting the flood on the arbiter levels, the huge covenant civil war stuff he did for high charity and arbiter's last level)
They were probably originally going to be an enemy to fight in the game, possibly as rogue squads moving through the city and engaging in firefights with the covenant forces
they may have planned on adding the elites ingame but chose not to and make them already dead instead. i dont know my lore detailed enough but i imagine when elites and humans sided was probably a day or so later since it was when Tartarus was killed. and ODST was just after New Mombasa. that was soemthing that did bug me in ODST was that the brutes already had energy shields and killed all the elites. despitre hours before in Halo 2 there were no brutes and they never had energy shields.
My theories would be either they never bothered aligning them as they’re dead (depending on the development of the game) or at some point they were going to be a third faction in the game which the human characters would have to deal with. It was likely easier to just kill them off for simplicity than deal with the complication of player expectation, narrative, etc.
I'm pretty sure throughout the entirety of Halo ODST, chief hasn't even reached installation 05 yet. According to the lore, the In Amber Clad was in slipspace for two weeks.
If you think about it. It's not surprising this game takes place during halo 2. At the beginning of which elites are still on the profits side before they are betrayed. Even if they survived the attack of the brutes they would most likely attack the odst because they do not yet know what exactly is happening and that the elites are sortakinda allies (but not fully just kind if like. We share a common enemy type of deal) with humanity at that point
I remember in the early days of ODST I would always hear rumors of people finding a live elite somewhere in the game. The most popular rumor was on Mombasa Streets there were sightings of an elite being killed by a bunch of drones. But I could never verify any of the rumors back then. Would've been cool to see actual live elite encounters in ODST though
Could also be possible cut content that we would fight elites on certain missions as well as Covenant just like early Halo 4 where Covenant were fighting Prometheans
It makes sense. The Human-Elite alliance was formed some time after the Great Schism. The whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing only happened right at the end of Halo 2's timeline when Johnson helped the Arbiter to stop Tartarus firing the ring, up until then the Elites were still a separate faction.
This is super cool! ive always wondered this and i wanted to know if they could be givin a active AI instead of standing there. I wonder if bungie had plans to make a secret easter egg of a hidden group of elites on mombasa streets hiding out from the brutes that you could kill. That would of been a neat touch. Or to witness them battling the brutes.
It makes sense they appear as enemies, since you as a soldier don't know about what happened, so the rookie and most soldiers believe they are still enemies. While the information is confidential.
it’s probably because since odst uses halo 3s engine, it’s gonna be complicated switching the dialogue back to hostile instead of friendly where as brutes never had friendly dialogue to begin with and so it was easier to implement brutes into the game
Well ODST takes place during the events of halo 2 when the covenant ship goes to Delta halo, so it'd make sense if the elites are still hostile considering the great schism hasn't reached it's peak. So arby and the elites are still with the prophets at this time
There were probably meant to be scenes where Elites fought against Brutes, then you could intervene! However these battles were ultimately cut obviously. Perhaps when MCC is ready for ODST, Assembly could be used to restore that feature in the game.
ODST was programmed like halo 2. 2 and 3 were made in the same engine and ODST is programmed more on the Halo 2 side which I believe is how and why the silenced smg has the values that is has. The silenced smg was in halo 2 which is how 343 restored it in Halo 2's anniversary modes
No doubt in my mind elites were planned for the missions Teyari Plaza and NMPD HQ, alive in the former and dead in the latter. Teyari Plaza is literally set up to end in a climax area not too dissimilar to the one in the Halo 2 mission Gravemind, and NMPD HQ has multiple points where you would reasonably find elites dead who fought the officers in the building earlier. My theory is they were cut close to launch due to a planned AI rework that bungie didnt have the time/resources for. (Would also explain why Buck's firefight voice description in reach jokes "if he was any better, he'd be a spartan" )
The time line for the events to make the Elites friendly with humans would be after the covenant flood infected ship landed on Earth, ODST is based on what happened in Halo 2 when Master chief got to the delta Halo. So no they would not be friendly with humans but it would explain the beginning of the covenant civil war so neat stuff.
Dont forget that while ODST does take place during the hierarchy shift in the covenant, elites only allied with the humans at the end of halo 2 - beginning of halo 3. So it makes sense
It's probably because Master Chief and I believe they made a strange Alliance but apparently that was only the ones who are on the Halo ring but the ones that were on Earth probably didn't know about it.
I think it makes sense cause during the great skisim in halo 2 elits and brute fought bought would also still agro on you so it makes sense that they wouldnt be allies until the end of halo 2
Hey Heed, they are friendlies just in a different way. I know that because I tried this out, and it does show up also on the video, (in my case Bumper Jumper) you press your trade button and it shows up as (in my case) Press B To Swap For____
Cheiftan Tartarus, the time has come. Execute order 66.
It will be done my Lord
The Senate this is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!
In the name of the galactic senate your under arrest Chancellors
@@Boom__6678 Are you threatening me Master Boom 6678?
TheLooseMoose The senate will decide your fate!
GAME DESIGN THEORY: I believe this is a remnant of scrapped encounter that would have included brutes and elites fighting each other, similar to how the Flood and Covenant (and elites and brutes in Halo 2) would be encountered in other Halos in scenes where they’d already be fighting when you stumbled upon them.
LORE: Because this mission specifically takes place so incredibly soon after Regret’s carrier departs for Installation 05, there’s NO WAY there’d be any sort of talks about peace with the Sangheili for almost a full day and a half afterward - AFTER when the Arbiter, Commander Keyes, and Sergeant Johnson cooperated to stop Tartarus. When DARE said “it’s classified”, she meant the UNSC had observed “infighting” between many command groups of Covenant forces in select (quickly growing) swaths of Covenant engagements. It wasn’t that “only the high command knew about the alliance”, it was because there WAS no alliance yet and ONI was still like “YO WTF RN THEY FIGHTING”
The alliance wasn't ratified til two weeks later as a cease-fire agreement, then March next year. It was official alliance for technological exchange & protection.
FUCKING good comment
Yeah, from game design perspective I'd say this is probably a remnant of an idea they wanted to do with having them actively fighting each other within view, but didn't have the development resources for. I suspect it was dropped early on for the same reason there are no other friendly covenant species in Halo 3 besides elites; because it would be difficult to tell whose Grunts/Jackals are on whose team fighting each other. Otherwise it'd just be Elites fighting all the other covenant types.
It would have been cool if Bungie actually added in moments when the Elites and Brutes found one another and you could just watch from a distance.
Carl Lepis Don’t forget time either speeds up or slows down in space.
Well just like in halo 2 how you still fought elites even though it was in the middle of the great schism. It makes sense
Yes, but the elites was the main force of the covenants and the prophets at this moment, in this it's the brutes (because they use more of Halo 3), and this hapens before the elites are betrayed, so it's not 100% exacly correct, but it's true
@@willb1156 yeah not completely but there's definitely some buffer room between when the schism happened I think. And brutes hated elites all along anyway. So maybe it was a sign of things to come!
@@joeyvitale24 maybe, who knows?
@@willb1156 I guess that's the best part about halo in general. There's just so much to speculate on!
@@joeyvitale24 fact
Buck: hey Veronica? whats with all these dead Elites?
Dare: oh that was you from an alternate reality, you tested to see if they were friendly's then killed them.
Buck:....oh
Lmfao
This breaks the 4th wall
I bet Bungie was planning on spawning live Elites, (which if true would explain why they went through the effort to change their team).
Man... it would have been really cool to fight Elites as an ODST. They're so much more threatening than Brutes. A shame they ended up making them all dead.
Noah they are good strategists alien and honorable foes
Noah are u crazy elites fight using their brain they make strategies not like those brutes who just solely depend on brute strength it's harder to kill brutes than elites in both lore and game u fucking idiot .
Aj Styles calm down you spaz. Brutes have their own tech to rival the elites and are plenty advanced with what we see in HW2
It would have been cool to also see not just the Elites fighting brutes, but the grunts and hunters as well (against brutes, jackals and drones). Then later on throughout the game when all the elites are killed, you can see the grunts and hunters either submitting to the brutes or getting killed off and replaced with Truth's loyalists. At least it would explain why the grunts and hunters weren't on your side in Halo 3.
Brutes shouldn't even have power armor in the game.
Video idea: will marines turn against eachother if they kill the player enough times
Hm... this is something that can only be tested on COOP. Someone needs to partner up with Heed for this!
Don't take my word for it, but in my last CEA playthrough on PC a marine killed me, and during my death animation I thought I saw the other marines shoot him. Maybe they were shooting something else but it gave me that impression.
@@kainey Was it a default CEA campaign or a modded CEA campaign?
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Vanilla, I haven't yet used mods on CE MCC
WHAT AN AWSOME IDEA
I'm guesing it's a leftover of early game design, that MAYBE the Elites were still gonna be the main fighting force of the Covenant in ODST, or we'd see the beginning of the Great Schism, after all it takes place across the first 6-8 hours after Regret flees Earth, so the Elites were still the main fighting force.
The problem this creates is that it clashes with Halo 3's design of The Brute Pack, and how the sandbox and other enemy AI is designed to interact in tandem with the Halo 3 Brutes, so Bungie just opted to remain consistant with Halo 3 and keep the Brutes as the main fighting force and simply handwave the Elites on Earth as stragglers that couldn't foresee the betrayal.
Lame, I'm glad they out of office, but I dislike 343i too
These were my exact thoughts, and I wonder why GeneralKidd is always so naive with this kind of thing. It's so much more likely that Elites were originally going to be part of the gameplay and were later cut than the idea that Bungie gave them a special tag as an easter egg for modders.
I would assume they were going to handle it the same way they handled Reach and even the way they did the H2 E3 demo which is that they were going to have BOTH Elites and Brutes as Covenant forces but not necessarily spawn at the same time. I'm not 100% certain on the timeline but I don't quite think the Elites would have actually been betrayed by this point in the timeline as I'm fairly certain that Truth's forces reached Earth yet and Regret had no part in the schism until he was killed so his leftover forces shouldn't be in formal conflict; at best power vacuums might lead to minor skirmishes between the two species.
It IS possible that the betrayal would be seen on screen at some point hence the Covenant and Prophet team tags both being enemy.
Luke Maurer halo 3 ODST was made after halo 2 when they had already fought meaning Bungie just didn’t think ahead and added the bodies before the betrayal happened also it’s not an Easter egg it’s a problem with the scripting as the dead bodies don’t have a faction as they don’t need one meaning when they are spawned alive they will register as hostile in the games engine also the elites where dead in spots where it seems like battles occurred meaning that Bungie may have just wanted to keep the elites relevant unlike other species.
ODST takes place like 2 weeks after Regret dude, slip-space takes that long.
It was disappointing that the elites in ODST are never shown alive. How cool would it have been to fight the elites with Halo 3's sandbox design in place? Maybe halfway through the game, we could learn the brutes betrayed the elites and for the last couple of missions, you get elite allies. Some dedicated modders need to make this happen when ODST comes to MCC PC.
Realistically, it would’ve been a two-front war for the Elites at the time cuz they wouldn’t probably just align themselves with the UNSC just like that at the time and would probably fight both them and the Covenant (and, as you see, lose).
Isn't ODST in MCC PC already or is it just reach and the chief anthology?
ODST Kefro Halo 3 ODST is included as well.
I wonder what it would be like to fight them in legendary difficulty
@Dracen Walter yeah someone told me 343 are adding the games to MCC on PC slowly one after another to avoid the Xbox release in 2014 which was a disaster
Makes me wonder if Bungie was going to show the Brutes and the Elites fighting each other during Tayari Plaza, but maybe due to time or tech they couldn't get it working.
Or during the flashback scenes we would have fought the Elites, then the Brutes come, then we fight Brutes.
I don't know how much dialogue Bungie recorded specifically for Covenant for ODST. They might have just not wanted to do much new recording either, and just recycle as much as possible.
Remember this wasn't supposed to be a full game at first. Was only going to be a $15-$20 DLC for Halo 3.
@Thomas Houghton They didn't port much over from Halo2 though. It was built from the ground up. They basically said so in one of the ViDocs, and how it just ballooned from a DLC to a full game. I'm pretty sure Marty was only supposed to write a couple new pieces for it, but then it turned into a whole new soundtrack.
I think that, just like most Bungie games, they went for 100, but could never do more than 75.
@@Doctor_D0M3 Actually I don't think they had to make ODST a full game to meet the contract. I think their ambition got in the way and they just made a game that was bigger and longer.
In fact I think they had to lobby Microsoft, not for very long I'm sure, to have a bigger budget for the game.
And who knows. Maybe they made ODST a full game to pay for start-up on Destiny.
Not sure why they couldn't get it working. There is already AI for the elites fighting the rest of the covenant in Halo 3 and AI set for when the player betrays them because they were friendly in Halo 3. So they could've just set their AI to always act as if the player betrayed them. Perhaps they just didn't want to deal with it or a time issue but I think it could've been done.
@@SoulbentAnime I think there were multiple reasons, but I think the biggest were time, making it look good, and voice acting.
Also could have been a last minute thing they tested and decided it didn't add enough.
Definitely should have been a $15-$20 DLC. Game was way too short for its initial price
If you think about it, the time ODST takes is right when Halo 2’s mission when the ship went into slip space, that was before they were friendly
When Buck finds the dead elites, that seems to be even before The Great Schism. So the hostility between this group of brutes and elites was before even that. Hence, why it might be classified.
ExplosiveWookiesVacation
Exactly, ODST takes a coarse of 3-4 total days I think, giving it plenty of time for the betrayal to build up.
It would have been so cool if in Halo 4, The Arbiter's portion of the Covenant find Master Chief and then we fight the rest of the Covenant together just like old times.
John Doe
I wouldn’t think Arbiter’s side would be found near a Forerunner Planet, especially in uncharted areas
Doesn't really make sense for the timeline. Halo ODST takes place on the 20th and 21st of October 2552 and the changing of the guard doesn't take place until 3rd of November 2552 nearly 2 weeks later. There is literally no reason for Brutes and Elites to be fighting considering Regret is still alive at the point in which this mission takes places.
In the other halo games, often times the devs would spawn Living AI at the beginning of the mission....and then they are insta-killed and they fall to their spot dead on the ground. Are these elites alive for a split second when they spawn?
Good idea
This is used pretty often in the level d
Sacred icon in halo 2
@@halinaqi2194 They are. A lot of Flood combat forms spawn dead, sometimes you see their bodies, other times you'll see their body parts.
It makes sense since ODST takes place during the supercarriers jump to Delta Halo. The Elites left on Earth were probably left to die by the Prophets while the useful idiots were gone searching for the Sacred Icon.
Not finished the video yet but I've heard that no elites are alive in ODST because it was too hard to remove the "friendly" flag on their AI in Halo 3 engine. And at this point in the story, they are not friendly yet with human.
That's hilarious, depressing, and stupid all at once, because the Halo 3/ODST engine makes it very easy to configure an AI's alliance in regards to the player and other AI.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Yes but maybe with their H3 AI behavior they would keep call you Spartan or say usual friendly lines and it would have taken too long to remove and modify everything. ODST is not a full game and didn't have as much development time as the other Halo. The easiest way to deal with that was to show elites already dead.
Shame the elites have no programming if you mod them to spawn alive I would like to fight sangheilis in halo 3 and ODST than most halos.
But it does make sense because halo 3 ODST was supposed to be only an extension to halo 3 instead of a full game.
@Toucan Game Studio although it might take a while as I don't think halo 3 has any genuine halo CE/2 sangheili lines apart from "Wort Wort Wort" using the IWHBYD skull. This reminds me of "Inferno Plus"' struggle for modding halo 2s gravity and physics
We should’ve fought elites in the first mission chronologically, then seen brutes and elites fighting later on, and finally fought just brutes in mombasa streets.
I smell a much needed overhaul mod when the PC version fiiiiinally comes out.
lemmingscanfly5 fight against elites/ brutes, watch elites get massacred by brutes, fight brutes/find prisoner elites to make allies.
@@T0YCHEST holy shit that sounds a great idea
@@T0YCHEST Yeah, right, the ODSTs are just gonna make buddies with the guys who just flew down and destroyed New Mombasa.
lemmingscanfly5 u make it seem like u cant write it off somehow using intel
Regular Old Plumbus finding some injured, disarmed elites in data Hive, spec ops or some other who might have Sangheili intel connections would make sense.
ODST takes place almost 2 weeks before the great Schism. Buck found the dead elites literally 2 minutes after Regret left for Delta Halo. So how can Dare have prior knowledge of the Great Schism nearly 2 weeks before it even happened?
2 weeks? Pretty sure it happens a few days after new Mombasa. Pretty much the same day after chief kills regret the great schism starts. The elites in new Mombasa though were definitely enemies, because this they are the same forces tasked with invading earth. I really wish they were enemies in ODST!
@@rhysnichols8608
ODST took place on Oct/20th.
The Great Schism started on Nov/2nd.
When Regret left Earth, a whole 1.5 weeks passed for him and the In Amber Clad before they arrived at Delta Halo.
On Earth, Buck literally found dead Elites 2 minutes after Regret made the jump. The reason they were dead before the Great Schism broke out was because Truth & Tartarus were already in the middle of their plan of eradicating them, and this was done silently.
Regret's assassination by the Chief was simply a happy accident for Truth as it now allowed him an excuse to replace the elites publicly without having to do it secret.
Anyway, whether it happened a few days or weeks after ODST, the fact remains; Buck found dead elites that were - and I quote *"Looks like they were killed by brutes"* BEFORE the Great Schism broke out. And Dare saying it was classified means she already knew of the fued before it even happened. The question is; How?
Unfortunately it seems like a plot hole on Bungie's part (Not surprising considering there dev cycle) but hear me out.
ONI without a doubt knew about the Grunt Rebellions and the rivalry between the jackals and grunts, because these things feature very heavily in the games with jackals fucking with grunts in cutscenes. As we all know, brutes and elites fucking HATE eachother, so I'm willing to bet ONI has discovered scenes like this before, possibly with the races' respective colony worlds being attacked by the other. Also someone else pointed out that there could have been a clandestine purging of elites in the covenant structure, and since Truth knew that this was the portal to the Ark, he wouldn't want elites anywhere near such a holy artifact. One Regret leaves and the chain of command goes haywire, Truth could have given the order. This alternatively means maybe ONI intercepted the Covenant transmission (I would assume Earth is one hell of a listening post) and have asked ground teams to confirm or deny these reports.
@Ryan Morgan I would assume ONI knew of these rivalries prior to the Great Schism through multiple operatives on the field observing these acts covertly over some extended period of time. Given the level of development of rivalry between the Sangheili and the Jiralhanae, they would be able to assume that some sort of uprising would begin again - but this might be pushing the lore a bit too far.
Alternatively; since ONI do have a habit of doing everything ‘behind closed doors’, perhaps they captured some Covenant units and interrogated them for information, such as knowledge of their hierarchy, class-structures and previous uprisings within the Covenant - though this could be stretching the lore a little bit...
As soon as Regret's fleet leaves the remaining Covenant forces on Earth are totally cut off, then Truth arrives (I assume Truth's ships are the ones that glass New Mombasa at the end, since only one of Regret's ships from his small fleet broke through to Earth) therefore, Truth's Brutes communicate to the ones on the ground to wipe out any elites. Alternatively, Regret's Brutes wipe out the Elites on their own initiative or manage it through infighting, sparked by their role reversal. This could also explain Dare's knowledge, since it's possible UNSC forces have witnessed infighting between Elites and Brutes, so they know something is happening to the Covenant, but they don't know about the Schism since it hasn't happened
The brutes execute order 66
I HAVE AN IDEA!. the Mission on halo 3. 'The Covenant' where you fight beside the flood. you should spawn in marines and elite allies to see if they try to attack each other since their teamed up with chief and arbiter, we never knew if the marines and elite knew about the flood teaming up with them. PLEASE SEE THIS I ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW
The Great Schism was the beginning of the end for the faction of Sangheli to be done with the prophets. Because this takes place between the two games, it's safe to say they are still unfriendly, most likely due to the events of halo 2 not being yet completed, and or the Arbitee not rounding up the elites left in to the Shadow of Intent.
Buck: what’s with all the dead elites
Dare: sorry Buck that’s classified
Buck: hmph MY ASS!
you can forget about those adjustments to your a2 scope
I always wanted to fight Elites in ODST
Timeline wise, it’s correct that elites are not friendlies “yet”. That at the end of halo 2 not during the middle of halo 2... when this game takes place...
This makes me think it would have so cool if there was a moment in the mombasa streets levels where you could find brutes hunting elites or eleited getting killed. Similar to the section where you see the engineer getting the explosives put on it. Would be a cool attention to detail. Kinda like an 'execute order 66' in game cutscene
Halo 2: is Gravemind actually friendly to you?
Gravemind isn't a Gameplay enemy, there's no AI for him
It makes sense because halo 3 takes place after halo 3:ODST. By the time thw chief arrives in Halo 3,the brutes have already begun the excavation,it would be expected that the elites would be hostile,as the arbiter has not allied with the humans yet. Therefore they would be considered enemies
I was wondering about this too a while back, but forgot about this part. Thank you for doing this video
I wonder if the elites would become friendly later on in the gamelike when truth and his ships came to earth in the last mission
My theory is that it's the same thing as the mission Gravemind in Halo 2, where Elites (and also Grunts and Hunters) were enemies to the Brutes (and also the Jackals and Drones), but all of them were still enemies to Master Chief and the Marines.
Just add elites as enemies in firefight that have their own factions species along with them and you have ODST war zone. Of course, it’s easier said than done but the idea.
Elites may have been your enemies but it was probably cut
Imagine if the only place elites spawned was areas that said "Remember Reach". That'd be pretty cool.
It seemed extremely weird that we’re fighting brutes in this game instead of elites. Brutes were never on earth during the events of Halo 2. This story takes place right after the carrier jumps space in Halo 2.
Gear Master yeah but brutes were on earth during halo 3, so prophet of truth probably dropped them off to secure the portal to the ark while eliminating elites.
These Elites here are pretty much the ones from the events from Halo 2 when they were on earth, they were enemies from Humans and Brutes at this point
Halo 3 ODST takes place right after Regret’s ship leaves the city in Halo 3. You can see Key’s frigate go into slip space with the carrier
Your “theory” is pretty much spot on: halo 3 ODST happens in the wake of Halo 2’s New Mombasa slipspace explosion. There’s actually videos synchronizing the ODST drop cutscene with the Halo 2 Slipspace in Mew Mombasa cutscene. At that moment UNSC and the covenant are enemies. UNSC hasn’t fought brutes yet. In lore, the prophet of regret already saw the failure of the elites and began replacing them with brutes. A brute ship is sent to New Mombasa to take control of the city and eradicate all elite life. So while the CHIEF is beating to death the prophet of regret, the spread out ODST’s are trying to regain control of New Mombasa from the brutes.
That’s basically why elites are both UNSC and the brutes enemies.
UNSC fought brutes on harvest, arcadia and reach before the events of halo 2
What team is the shot gun police officer on when he turns against you?
Breadley ONI¿
I assume it just triggers the same flag as when you betray. Setting Human faction as enemy to Player
He's align to the Mombasa police commisioner. If you listen to the hidden voice recordings scattered throughout the city.
.
@@whocares435-z9v But you get points for killing him. Killing allies who have turned on you will reduce points. I think they put him on the Covenant team.
I’m glad you made a video on this because I always wondered about this.
i am much more impressed about the blue plasma rifle being in ODST
Well considering that this was after the mission of Metropolis when Solemn Penance slipspace with Master Chief, Avery Johnson, and Miranda Keyes on Amber Clad followed it and before a alliance was made between humanity and the Elites some time right before and after battle against Tartarus and his death it makes sense why the Elites would still be hostile to humanity
I remember this one time playing odst I think it was a glitch but I saw a living elite getting beaten by two brutes
I keep hearing stories about living elites and once saw a video a long time ago with an elite fighting other covenant. I have never seen it in the game though.
I'd bet more on the placeholder setting for units being non friendly than them making it about lore.
They were not used whatsoever and thus left on the default setting.
No
"I've done a simple mod"
Here we go!
The only reason I can think of lore wise for why the elites are dead is that after the carrier jumped, the brutes must of decided to betray the elites early and the elites weren’t expecting it
that is the city from Halo 2 so the Elites are Enemies, Halo 3 ODST is after the jump from the prophets Ship to the other Halo (in Halo2) the odst Mission is to enter the ship But it escaped and that's how they stayed in the city that was destroyed by the jump, strictly speaking this is a story about Halo 2, the third part has relatively little to do with it, if I got that right.
I wasn't surprised that the elites there are hostile, but the dialogue between Buck and Veronica (Dare) raises questions that I haven't quite understood yet, maybe you will find a Theroy?
The elites are more intimidating when youre a lil ODST
I love what you do about the halo games, keep going man!
I wonder if Bungie planned to have Elites in the game, alive I mean and we'd have to fight both factions, like in Halo 2 when your Chief on High Charity.
I would have loved fighting/supporting Elites in ODST.
Good old three way between ODST, Brutes, and Elites... sounds kinda nice.
I’m pretty sure this is because the elites split into different factions. Some elites end up helping master chief, namely the arbiter (in halo5) and his followers, but also in halo 5 there are some elites who are against the arbiter.
Brutes: where do you wanna fight bro?
Elites: Earth
Brutes: alright for sure
I wonder if they where going to have elites still be hostile and half way through the game they’d get betrayed by the brutes and then it would have been a ffa the elites vs the covenant vs the marines/ODST
But decided to change it and decided to have them dead
It makes sense if you think about it chronologically.
During the events of the beginning of halo 3 ODST master chief was either or both on/ above new Mombasa. During this time the elites had tensions with the covenant do to a rebellion faction questioning the covenant (that would eventually be silenced by the arbiter) but still fought in the covenant before the great schism. Elites and brutes are also said to naturally have tensions between each other do to cultural/ ideological differences (elites value honor and faith, brutes value warfare and death) which is why they’re often not seen together in combat
Damn that marine went to the sky after that slap
That brute executed his POWER SLAP
looking at the Halo timeline, the battle of New Mombasa started October 20th. thats when MC got his armor, fought on the station, jumped, and fought more in NM, and then ODST dropped also. by 21st, they recover Vergil. however the Great Schism, where brutes and elites started fighting started November 2nd. so i dont get why they would already have the elites killed off in ODST. i never understoon why in ODST there were no elites and brutes had shields despite Halo 2 had alot of elites and no brutes
Halo 3: ODST: Engineers infected by the Flood!
I need this in a vid
Finally looking for something like this. Always disappointed you couldn't fight the elites in ODST. Maybe a mod will change that...
Thank you for your content! Always interesting watching you poke and prod the oddities of Halo.
I wonder if bungie planned to have something where Elites and Brutes fight but you and marines also get caught in the crossfire. Like how it was in 3 with Setinals and flood fighting you and each other.
(Edit) looking through comments, people also has this theory. Would have been cool for it to happen.
My guess is that they probably initially planned to have you encounter and fight elites in ODST
I wish we were able to fight elite ai in the Halo 3 engine. Would have been cool.
Background code unseen to the player is lore friendly. This pleases me.
This could also be that maybe in early development a level was in mind to have you fight elites but was later scraped
The whole covenant didn’t know about what happened to the elites on earth. The Great Schism didn’t occur full scale till the death of the prophet of regrets a few weeks later.
3:12 Brute pauses in shock: “I thought I put you in the dirt” talking to the emotionless elite
This takes place around the same time the Halo 2 mission Gravemind happens. At that point both factions were still fighting the master chiefs and Marines. But elites and specifically the arbiter did not join the Humans yet.
Why they don't interact with others? Attack, defend, depending on their IA based behaviours
Have no AI
@Melissa Waterman :( u made my response useless
Just port the AI from H3 over ODST and make them work. Show would be gorgeous. Like FFA. Lol
Xp4 They lack ai cause there just suppose to be dead bodies but you could replicate the Elite ai from 3 easily
Xp4 wtf are u wishing a genie it doesn’t work like that
MASTER CHIEF LIKES TREES
Yes he does.
Would have been cool to see them collectively fighting together (would be neat to see how they treated the brutes under them) and have another sub plot you could see such as the news of the death of Regret, (levels after that would show the brutes taking charge and mistreating the elites dude to years of mistreatment) then have a sort of "order 66" style transition to where they turn on eachother (could have even been a major factor in the later mid part of the game), followed by them becoming rarer and rarer as they are hunted down and betrayed to the point the most you see are corpses, would also show a diffrent balance of enemies as it progressed (early on less high ranking brutes and even have most of them unarmored with more higher ranking elites that transitions to more higher ranking brutes, could even see some of the other covinent races fighting eachother and could have a few neat scenes/easter eggs ("blue on blue ambushes", grunts and other lower ranking races getting confused on who to engage, my favorite idea would be an easter egg where you see a bture getting a transmission from truth and mercy, where an elite ultra is off in an ally peeing on a wall or something, walks up and asks what the transmission was about followed to getting a mauler bayonet to the face followed by follow up execution shot to the head))
Perfect explanation for this, the Sangheili were still fighting the UNSC when the great skisim (Forgive spelling errors) occured. The Elites didnt join forces until weeks later when the Arbiter sent out a call to arms against the prophets and the covenant. From then on bei g the swords of Sangheilios even though it wasnt officially reformed at the time
I think they originally planned for you to see the gate sckisam happen like in halo 2. Also I think the first few missions would have the elites as your main ennermy since it's immediately after the jump so the elites would not have been betrayed yet. The secret order I think became cannon after odst to fix the plot hole odst created
Hopefully when ODST comes out on PC someone manages to make the Elites have proper AI. It would be sweet to have some 3-way battles (elites vs prophet team vs humans).
Would be like the levels on high charity in Halo 2.
I really liked Ruby's mod for Halo 2 because it had lots of 3-way battles (being able to fight marines as arbiter while also fighting the flood on the arbiter levels, the huge covenant civil war stuff he did for high charity and arbiter's last level)
That’s neat, thanks for sharing! I always enjoy your videos!!
They were probably originally going to be an enemy to fight in the game, possibly as rogue squads moving through the city and engaging in firefights with the covenant forces
I think at this point of time, The Arbiter and Johnson haven't fist bumped and pounded a beer yet so the Elites are still your enemy XD
they may have planned on adding the elites ingame but chose not to and make them already dead instead. i dont know my lore detailed enough but i imagine when elites and humans sided was probably a day or so later since it was when Tartarus was killed. and ODST was just after New Mombasa.
that was soemthing that did bug me in ODST was that the brutes already had energy shields and killed all the elites. despitre hours before in Halo 2 there were no brutes and they never had energy shields.
My theories would be either they never bothered aligning them as they’re dead (depending on the development of the game) or at some point they were going to be a third faction in the game which the human characters would have to deal with.
It was likely easier to just kill them off for simplicity than deal with the complication of player expectation, narrative, etc.
I'm pretty sure throughout the entirety of Halo ODST, chief hasn't even reached installation 05 yet. According to the lore, the In Amber Clad was in slipspace for two weeks.
If you think about it. It's not surprising this game takes place during halo 2. At the beginning of which elites are still on the profits side before they are betrayed. Even if they survived the attack of the brutes they would most likely attack the odst because they do not yet know what exactly is happening and that the elites are sortakinda allies (but not fully just kind if like. We share a common enemy type of deal) with humanity at that point
At some point they probably had the idea of the player stumbling into a Brute/Elite fight.
I remember in the early days of ODST I would always hear rumors of people finding a live elite somewhere in the game. The most popular rumor was on Mombasa Streets there were sightings of an elite being killed by a bunch of drones. But I could never verify any of the rumors back then. Would've been cool to see actual live elite encounters in ODST though
Could also be possible cut content that we would fight elites on certain missions as well as Covenant just like early Halo 4 where Covenant were fighting Prometheans
It makes sense. The Human-Elite alliance was formed some time after the Great Schism. The whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing only happened right at the end of Halo 2's timeline when Johnson helped the Arbiter to stop Tartarus firing the ring, up until then the Elites were still a separate faction.
This is super cool! ive always wondered this and i wanted to know if they could be givin a active AI instead of standing there. I wonder if bungie had plans to make a secret easter egg of a hidden group of elites on mombasa streets hiding out from the brutes that you could kill. That would of been a neat touch. Or to witness them battling the brutes.
I love you're passion for halo man
It makes sense they appear as enemies, since you as a soldier don't know about what happened, so the rookie and most soldiers believe they are still enemies. While the information is confidential.
it’s probably because since odst uses halo 3s engine, it’s gonna be complicated switching the dialogue back to hostile instead of friendly where as brutes never had friendly dialogue to begin with and so it was easier to implement brutes into the game
The events of halo 3 ODST is during the second mission of halo 2 when the in amber clad is leaving to chase the prophet of regret
Day 4 of asking General Heed to explore the Forward Until Dawn in the post credits of Halo 3
Well ODST takes place during the events of halo 2 when the covenant ship goes to Delta halo, so it'd make sense if the elites are still hostile considering the great schism hasn't reached it's peak. So arby and the elites are still with the prophets at this time
It takes place several days before Delta halo
There were probably meant to be scenes where Elites fought against Brutes, then you could intervene! However these battles were ultimately cut obviously. Perhaps when MCC is ready for ODST, Assembly could be used to restore that feature in the game.
Maybe Elites were originally supposed to show up alive in ODST early on in development?
ODST was programmed like halo 2. 2 and 3 were made in the same engine and ODST is programmed more on the Halo 2 side which I believe is how and why the silenced smg has the values that is has. The silenced smg was in halo 2 which is how 343 restored it in Halo 2's anniversary modes
No doubt in my mind elites were planned for the missions Teyari Plaza and NMPD HQ, alive in the former and dead in the latter. Teyari Plaza is literally set up to end in a climax area not too dissimilar to the one in the Halo 2 mission Gravemind, and NMPD HQ has multiple points where you would reasonably find elites dead who fought the officers in the building earlier. My theory is they were cut close to launch due to a planned AI rework that bungie didnt have the time/resources for. (Would also explain why Buck's firefight voice description in reach jokes "if he was any better, he'd be a spartan" )
The time line for the events to make the Elites friendly with humans would be after the covenant flood infected ship landed on Earth, ODST is based on what happened in Halo 2 when Master chief got to the delta Halo. So no they would not be friendly with humans but it would explain the beginning of the covenant civil war so neat stuff.
Dont forget that while ODST does take place during the hierarchy shift in the covenant, elites only allied with the humans at the end of halo 2 - beginning of halo 3. So it makes sense
It's probably because Master Chief and I believe they made a strange Alliance but apparently that was only the ones who are on the Halo ring but the ones that were on Earth probably didn't know about it.
I think it makes sense cause during the great skisim in halo 2 elits and brute fought bought would also still agro on you so it makes sense that they wouldnt be allies until the end of halo 2
Love your vids my man!
They were slaughtered, then brought back to life to be slaughtered again by TH-cam man. Tragic..
They should of been in the game, I'm curious how they would play out, fighting Halo 3 elites not as a spartan.
Hey Heed, they are friendlies just in a different way. I know that because I tried this out, and it does show up also on the video, (in my case Bumper Jumper) you press your trade button and it shows up as (in my case) Press B To Swap For____