The one thing that I did after decades of trying to bring others around to my way of thinking, was simply stating that current conditions were not working for me, that I had run out of approaches or ideas to help ease tensions, and gave it to the other person to be creative with and come up with other solutions for us to try. It absolutely saved my relationship with my daughter. Not anything to do with moral standards, just simple day to day considerations and communication. Letting go and playing in the sandbox with no expectation of perfection is such a pleasure.
thank you, Rick, for being honest and telling us that sometimes no amount of "joining the defence", using the correct approach, developing curiosity etc etc will change the attitude and behaviour of the other person... some husbands learn very quickly that it is easy to be emotionally unavailable and never do any chores all the while observing their wife using all those approaches and being carefull not to trigger the husband's defensiveness... and if she dares to express frustration, well then it is very easy for the husband to dismiss her for being a "typical hysterical woman"
52:35 - Dad’s just been in the trenches, dealing with other people’s bullshit for too long. Son is still young, hopeful and willing to be patient! 😅 I can identify both with needing more gentleness/curiosity with others and needing to be more assertive… or dare I say expressing frustration or recognizing the relationship just might not be workable. Really depends on the relationship and the situation. This is why all generations are valuable - elders keep us grounded in reality, while the youth push us to not give up hope. Thanks for modeling healthy disagreement around a sensitive topic!
I think Forrest’s approach works in newer relationships. By the time Rick gets the couple, this is an ingrained issue that is significantly more complicated; most likely having turned into a power dynamic.
I'm only about halfway through so I don't know if this will be addressed. So I understand that approaching with empathy and gentleness is just the right way to go BUT it gets tiring feeling like you have to tip toe and baby another person when just trying to kindly address things. I feel like it can only be on person A for so long before person B really needs to work on themselves and learn how to have "appropriate" reactions instead of having extreme defensiveness.
@@ForrestHanson I thought it was really cool to hear all of these approaches. One thing that I've noticed in relationships is that if I making a request of someone whom I care deeply about who has a strong negative response to any sense of insincere flattery, a respectful straight shooting no-b.s request can work wonders. It's not quite what Rick was describing, but I think it is more along those lines. I wonder what you'd think about that. A lot of typical "relationship advice" around making requests didn't really work as well in those cases for me. Loved this episode!
I think you're missing something Rick, the person trying to change the other person bumping up against their defenses has their own defenses which are probably being triggered. Most people have no idea that the other person is defensive because they feel unsafe and wouldn't know how to approach that. As an anxious person I really appreciate Forest's approach. You could also be having an effect on the person internally but they need time to think about it rather than be able to respond immediately. The gentle, kind approach is going to have a better result if that's really what you're after, but sometimes people are coming from the one up position and just seem to want to be judgemental and critical without looking at themselves. When people attack, it seems likely a person's going to defend.
@@JusSayngpeople into “self” are in defending the self mode, survival mode, sympathetic nervous system mode. That’s what this WHOLE podcast is about. A person’s threat response, not feeling safe, therefore defensiveness. We have all done it in varying degrees… Even you wanting others to be aware of YOUR emotional needs is about your “self”…. That’s why self awareness on all sides is key.
Rick has likely worked enough with narcissistic presenting partners (of those trying to be heard) since he’s worked with thousands of people. A soft approach can work, early on, with people who have some emotional maturity. It doesn’t work with those who lack self awareness, lack empathy, lack emotional intelligence and so on. I think that’s the point Rick was making, albeit gently!
I have to agree. I've been thinking a lot about this topic lately because I'm struggling to figure out my relationship with That Person (if you want to guess, the word starts with the letter "m", and society will never ever let you forget about "how important she is to you" 🙄). She isn't particularly emotionally mature, she definitely is the kind of person who would throw away a relationship before laying down her armor (I suspect an underlying personality disorder, perhaps bpd), and she knows I know that, so at every minor sign of a perceived attack her defenses go straight up, even when I'm just trying to lower mine. Sometimes it's projection, or deflection, lately it's mostly grey-rocking. At that point I stop feeling like it's safe to not put up my own defenses, I'm just not strong enough to be vulnerable all the way through. I've been trying different approaches for most of my life, and I don't know what else to do.
My DBT group administrator pointed it out too that in couples therapy, all too often, women asked calmly for what they needed but the husband only gave it when the wife got upset and demaded the thing (something as simple as being in close physical proximity, for example. Showing affection). Behaviorally, the men were teaching their women that they only get what they want when they lose their cool. Any polite loving rational approach was dismissed. What's that about?
excellent question. I wish this particular tangent had been explored. I would guess (or maybe it's just a hope) that the men would have responded to other consequences besides getting hysterical; maybe the women could have made some other shifts such as becoming less emotionally available or solicitous or *something* besides yelling, etc. And then in this way the women could have ideally taught the men that ignoring their requests comes with consequences too.
Anger signals immediacy. When men don't get angry people don't take them serious because the implication of violence behind anger. So it's learned that when not angry you ignore and when angry you take them serious because this is the pattern they themselves have been conditioned to. It's sad but I strongly believe this to be the case.
A fantastic episode, and one that was much needed for me. In trying to approach confrontation these days with compassion rather than anxiety, and it's been an unsuccessful journey so far. I'm realizing I've had so few examples of it in my life, that it's hard to state my needs or what's hurting me without my anxiety completely blowing it. What's worse, i encourage others to be honest with me, because I care how my actions and behaviors affect others and want to know if I'm unintentionally causing harm, yet in reality, i can't seem to take the constructive criticism without it deeply hurting my feelings. I feel like a hypocrite, but i don't know how to come into these interactions and check my emotions at the door. I don't want to be ruled by them anymore :( Thank you guys, for all the help you've given me. Seriously, every episode has been like a gift to me.
I struggle with anxiety too. It’s not often that I get into conflict. I was in a situation that I was triggered by disappointment that turned into frustration, possibly even anger. The person that I was in conflict with has a good potentiality to get defensive. I didn’t want to take my feelings out on her. I wanted to feel my emotions, instead of repressing them, but didn’t know how. So I turned on some music in my car and started singing and switched to deep breathing until I was calm, talking to and validating my inner child, in my head. I also did a body scan, to see where I felt the emotions. To let the other person know that I was calm I calmly asked the other person a question about what we were supposed to do next. The conflict de-escalated. A little while later, we discussed what was going on and shared what was coming up for us and why we reacted. I was grateful that I was able to work through it. I would like more practice, so that self-regulation happens more fluidly during conflict. I hope that my story makes sense and that it might be a helpful tool?
@erinhappy-go-lucky5040 Thank you for sharing that with me ❤️ It definitely does make sense, but I have to chuckle at myself. When it comes to my inner child, I seem to have an inner gaggle of children, and oh, about once a month I have to blow the whistle and we all stop what we're doing and have a big pow wow. It feels like the Von Trapp family line up in there sometimes 🤣 Thank you for sharing. I've been on the journey to heal the parts that hurt for what seems like forever, but I never stop learning new things. I just don't want to be so easily overcome by my emotions. Tears can really take over and derail entire conversations, to the point the other person can feel manipulated, and I totally get why they do. I hate having to pause a conversation when it only just began so I can step away and try and calm the inner brood down enough to continue. I drive myself crazier than anyone else!
This is such an important conversation! I need to internalize it! I'm curious how Forrest gained such insight at a relatively young age despite formal training (as far as I can tell) and is so emotionally intelligent... I've put Rick's book on hold at my local library and look forward to reading it.
I really wanted to hear what Rick had to say about the wives putting their foot down and I am disappointed that his point got shut down and he was "corrected" because his observation didn't support the talking points of the show. Yes, if you're trying to persuade someone, a gentle, empathetic, and diplomatic approach is almost always best, generally speaking. Yes, this is a message that people need to hear so that we can relate to each other in a more emotionally intelligent way. But it's not really a groundbreaking or nuanced insight to be honest. Rick's observations about spouses in stable, long-term relationships working out their differences in fraught situations really piqued my interest and it's too bad that the dialogue around that point was shut down rather than opened up and explored. It was a missed opportunity. I wanted to know: under what circumstances is that frustrated approach successful and what can that be attributed to? Obviously you're not going to confront your work colleague or neighbor in the same way you confront your spouse and I have some theories as to why this approach worked but I sure would have liked to hear Rick's take on it. Also I don't understand what the objection was around that example not applying to a wide audience as many, many people are married and frustrated with their spouses. Surely much of your audience demographic is Western, highly educated, English speaking...I don't know whose needs you were addressing and maybe I just don't know the needs of the show and am mistaken but that seemed like a whiff to me. Still a good show though--thanks.
I was married to what turned out to be a violent narcissist who was in another relationship we even did marriage guidance for a year without him mentioning his other relationship. Not all relationships are salvageable or worth the pain
Having two boys growing up i wrote recently regaurding the passage of time - "Fatherhood slides into brotherhood". Having children makes one realise their own father is just a guy, doing their best, making mistakes as we all do and taking wins at times. We all have an alloted energy quotient to spend energeticaly on relationships. When dad is just a guy again instead of your biggest hero fatherhood slides into Brotherhood. As it rightfully should. And outright BLAME becomes impossible once again, as it was when you were a child.
Fantastic insights, I completely loved how instantly defended Forrest was at the end when Dad said how come you're so good at this when you're not married etc. Forrest was like what's the difference between marriage and being together 7 years. So beautiful, teachers are all still learning ❤❤❤
If you pull someone’s mask off it is disaster for the person who isn’t ready and insecure. Love heals all I agree it must be done in gentleness like you would like someone to do to you
Re. the motivations behind behaviour, this is why I find typology so useful! It's so interesting and fosters greater understanding if you know you or someone else's type. Type 7s, for example, are going to gravitate towards what's most interesting and more fun for them, because they're trying to avoid their unconscious pain. Type 1s can be critical because they're trying to do things 'right' and be fair for the greater good. Type 3s will cut corners in tasks, because it's more important for them to be efficient and seen as achieving. Whereas the type 1 would spend time to do the task perfectly etc. It would really be interesting to do an episode with someone like Russ Hudson who could open people's eyes to what a useful tool the enneagram is in understanding ones own behaviour and blind spots. Not to mention how it helps in having more successful relationships when you know and understand the types of people in your sphere.
I love this topic. A lot of the time people (included) are not aware when the psychological defense is up. The partner, having known you for some time, likely can notice it as obviously as a physical shield. The process of disarming, or at least making the other person become aware of the psychological defense is super interesting to me.
I’d say this works some of the time. For more “extroverted” or people higher on the dominance scale you have to be willing to have the conflict head-on.
Great discussion thank you. Noticed my own projection recently. A friend who is a therapist and therefore, I thought, self aware. When I asked for some conversation around both of us getting our needs met, the response was so negative that she ended the friendship. Lesson learned.
Rick, your person A & person B description (at around 18 mins) was so amazingly helpful to me. As person A, I find myself going into a kind of fight or flight feeling when I get that jarring response from person B. I get stuck in that state of heightened anxiety/shut down and the only way I seem to be able to escape those feelings is to end the relationship. Otherwise, I can't eat, sleep or function properly. If anyone has any insight into that then please let me know!
I'm no therapist, but here's what I would do: First of all I would say it is important for you to expand your understanding of nervous system activation and forgive yourself for not being able to to do anything besides panic while being activated. Know that priority # 1 is that you need to re-establish a feeling of safety so that you feel comfortable before you even start looking at this difficult thing. This is truly difficult, know that you are being brave for confronting it, and that it is totally okay if you need to stop at any point, any amount of times so long as you return eventually when it feels safe again. No matter how slow, progress is always progress and progress with trauma that has been stored in the body needs to happen at the body's pace. From there, I would try to analyze what those situations have in common inside me, what common triggers are being pushed. What I feel that it might be saying about me as a person, and what consequences I fear it might implicate.
You might find it helpful to look into Attachment Styles - particularly Avoidant Attachment style, or Anxious-Avoidant, and see whether it might be describing you. At the very least, being aware of it might help you observe it more patiently and compassionately within yourself. I’d also personally examine what kinds of conflict resolution was modelled for you (or if any was modelled at all) growing up. I find that can really inform what we want - or don’t want - in our own lives. Sometimes avoiding what we saw modeled (or what was forced for us to model) can feel more worthwhile than the relationship itself. Whether or not that’s accurate is an entirely different question and will depend on the relationship. Reparenting yourself in this topic may be something you’d find helpful if the models given to you through life have hindered you rather than served you to help you grow and flourish. And since they’re saying they’ll do a talk on Shadow Work next week, that would likely be something you could really benefit from listening to. Recognizing your shadow with more patience and compassion (whether presented to you by someone else’s insights or their actions) might help you to “respond” to issues in relationships rather than “reacting” to them. I hope something here might resonate and help you! I relate to this, too, and am working through it myself. These are some subjects that I’ve found to be insightful so far. Additionally you may appreciate Non-Violent Communication strategies (via the book or the videos; don’t be too turned away by the giraffe. 😅) wishing you healthy healing!
dr. rick role playing drops an f bomb lol. he is of the age range where i would consider it rude to swear in their presence. so it took me a bit by surprise. but i think its important to allow swearing :)
I feel like it takes time to build trust, even with the most gentle and empathetic approach, between people to create a safe environment where defenses are quieter and slower to arise. Build trust in your people that you will not react in a way that makes them feel shamed. They may eventually see you as a safe person to give and receive constructive criticism and curiosity.
Thanks for yet another great episode, and I'm so much looking to the next one on shadow, one of my favorite concepts in Jungian psychology! Other concepts could be worth exploring too, in particular the anima-animus, as there's so much confusing information online about masculine and feminine energies, healthy dynamics and polarity often with references to Jung, and it might be useful to go back to Jung's original works to see what he actually wrote and to what extent his ideas might still be relevant for us today.
One more add, when you come up against VERY damaged people, it's not worth the effort. Eg my family are a nest of psychopathic narcissists, don't fight nature. I have done NVC it's so valuable ❤
The one thing that I did after decades of trying to bring others around to my way of thinking, was simply stating that current conditions were not working for me, that I had run out of approaches or ideas to help ease tensions, and gave it to the other person to be creative with and come up with other solutions for us to try. It absolutely saved my relationship with my daughter. Not anything to do with moral standards, just simple day to day considerations and communication.
Letting go and playing in the sandbox with no expectation of perfection is such a pleasure.
thank you, Rick, for being honest and telling us that sometimes no amount of "joining the defence", using the correct approach, developing curiosity etc etc will change the attitude and behaviour of the other person... some husbands learn very quickly that it is easy to be emotionally unavailable and never do any chores all the while observing their wife using all those approaches and being carefull not to trigger the husband's defensiveness... and if she dares to express frustration, well then it is very easy for the husband to dismiss her for being a "typical hysterical woman"
52:35 - Dad’s just been in the trenches, dealing with other people’s bullshit for too long. Son is still young, hopeful and willing to be patient! 😅 I can identify both with needing more gentleness/curiosity with others and needing to be more assertive… or dare I say expressing frustration or recognizing the relationship just might not be workable. Really depends on the relationship and the situation. This is why all generations are valuable - elders keep us grounded in reality, while the youth push us to not give up hope. Thanks for modeling healthy disagreement around a sensitive topic!
I think Forrest’s approach works in newer relationships.
By the time Rick gets the couple, this is an ingrained issue that is significantly more complicated; most likely having turned into a power dynamic.
Good point!
I'm only about halfway through so I don't know if this will be addressed. So I understand that approaching with empathy and gentleness is just the right way to go BUT it gets tiring feeling like you have to tip toe and baby another person when just trying to kindly address things. I feel like it can only be on person A for so long before person B really needs to work on themselves and learn how to have "appropriate" reactions instead of having extreme defensiveness.
I think Rick spoke to that toward the end, let me know what you think.
@@ForrestHanson I thought it was really cool to hear all of these approaches. One thing that I've noticed in relationships is that if I making a request of someone whom I care deeply about who has a strong negative response to any sense of insincere flattery, a respectful straight shooting no-b.s request can work wonders. It's not quite what Rick was describing, but I think it is more along those lines. I wonder what you'd think about that. A lot of typical "relationship advice" around making requests didn't really work as well in those cases for me. Loved this episode!
I think you're missing something Rick, the person trying to change the other person bumping up against their defenses has their own defenses which are probably being triggered. Most people have no idea that the other person is defensive because they feel unsafe and wouldn't know how to approach that. As an anxious person I really appreciate Forest's approach. You could also be having an effect on the person internally but they need time to think about it rather than be able to respond immediately. The gentle, kind approach is going to have a better result if that's really what you're after, but sometimes people are coming from the one up position and just seem to want to be judgemental and critical without looking at themselves. When people attack, it seems likely a person's going to defend.
Sad that people are so into “self” that they are not aware of others’ emotional needs 🫤
@@JusSayngpeople into “self” are in defending the self mode, survival mode, sympathetic nervous system mode. That’s what this WHOLE podcast is about.
A person’s threat response, not feeling safe, therefore defensiveness.
We have all done it in varying degrees…
Even you wanting others to be aware of YOUR emotional needs is about your “self”….
That’s why self awareness on all sides is key.
Rick has likely worked enough with narcissistic presenting partners (of those trying to be heard) since he’s worked with thousands of people.
A soft approach can work, early on, with people who have some emotional maturity.
It doesn’t work with those who lack self awareness, lack empathy, lack emotional intelligence and so on.
I think that’s the point Rick was making, albeit gently!
I have to agree. I've been thinking a lot about this topic lately because I'm struggling to figure out my relationship with That Person (if you want to guess, the word starts with the letter "m", and society will never ever let you forget about "how important she is to you" 🙄). She isn't particularly emotionally mature, she definitely is the kind of person who would throw away a relationship before laying down her armor (I suspect an underlying personality disorder, perhaps bpd), and she knows I know that, so at every minor sign of a perceived attack her defenses go straight up, even when I'm just trying to lower mine. Sometimes it's projection, or deflection, lately it's mostly grey-rocking. At that point I stop feeling like it's safe to not put up my own defenses, I'm just not strong enough to be vulnerable all the way through. I've been trying different approaches for most of my life, and I don't know what else to do.
My DBT group administrator pointed it out too that in couples therapy, all too often, women asked calmly for what they needed but the husband only gave it when the wife got upset and demaded the thing (something as simple as being in close physical proximity, for example. Showing affection). Behaviorally, the men were teaching their women that they only get what they want when they lose their cool. Any polite loving rational approach was dismissed. What's that about?
excellent question. I wish this particular tangent had been explored. I would guess (or maybe it's just a hope) that the men would have responded to other consequences besides getting hysterical; maybe the women could have made some other shifts such as becoming less emotionally available or solicitous or *something* besides yelling, etc. And then in this way the women could have ideally taught the men that ignoring their requests comes with consequences too.
Anger signals immediacy. When men don't get angry people don't take them serious because the implication of violence behind anger. So it's learned that when not angry you ignore and when angry you take them serious because this is the pattern they themselves have been conditioned to. It's sad but I strongly believe this to be the case.
A fantastic episode, and one that was much needed for me. In trying to approach confrontation these days with compassion rather than anxiety, and it's been an unsuccessful journey so far. I'm realizing I've had so few examples of it in my life, that it's hard to state my needs or what's hurting me without my anxiety completely blowing it. What's worse, i encourage others to be honest with me, because I care how my actions and behaviors affect others and want to know if I'm unintentionally causing harm, yet in reality, i can't seem to take the constructive criticism without it deeply hurting my feelings. I feel like a hypocrite, but i don't know how to come into these interactions and check my emotions at the door. I don't want to be ruled by them anymore :(
Thank you guys, for all the help you've given me. Seriously, every episode has been like a gift to me.
I struggle with anxiety too. It’s not often that I get into conflict. I was in a situation that I was triggered by disappointment that turned into frustration, possibly even anger. The person that I was in conflict with has a good potentiality to get defensive. I didn’t want to take my feelings out on her. I wanted to feel my emotions, instead of repressing them, but didn’t know how. So I turned on some music in my car and started singing and switched to deep breathing until I was calm, talking to and validating my inner child, in my head. I also did a body scan, to see where I felt the emotions. To let the other person know that I was calm I calmly asked the other person a question about what we were supposed to do next. The conflict de-escalated. A little while later, we discussed what was going on and shared what was coming up for us and why we reacted. I was grateful that I was able to work through it. I would like more practice, so that self-regulation happens more fluidly during conflict. I hope that my story makes sense and that it might be a helpful tool?
@erinhappy-go-lucky5040 Thank you for sharing that with me ❤️ It definitely does make sense, but I have to chuckle at myself. When it comes to my inner child, I seem to have an inner gaggle of children, and oh, about once a month I have to blow the whistle and we all stop what we're doing and have a big pow wow. It feels like the Von Trapp family line up in there sometimes 🤣
Thank you for sharing. I've been on the journey to heal the parts that hurt for what seems like forever, but I never stop learning new things. I just don't want to be so easily overcome by my emotions. Tears can really take over and derail entire conversations, to the point the other person can feel manipulated, and I totally get why they do. I hate having to pause a conversation when it only just began so I can step away and try and calm the inner brood down enough to continue. I drive myself crazier than anyone else!
I found things really opened up for me when I did Non Violent Communication ❤
The bottom line is that a relationship won't be successful unless both people have a similar level of emotional maturity/intelligence.
So so true.
I agree some people just don't have the capacity
This is such an important conversation! I need to internalize it! I'm curious how Forrest gained such insight at a relatively young age despite formal training (as far as I can tell) and is so emotionally intelligent... I've put Rick's book on hold at my local library and look forward to reading it.
Yes I was thinking he's a very wise guy for his age. Lovely man.
I really wanted to hear what Rick had to say about the wives putting their foot down and I am disappointed that his point got shut down and he was "corrected" because his observation didn't support the talking points of the show. Yes, if you're trying to persuade someone, a gentle, empathetic, and diplomatic approach is almost always best, generally speaking. Yes, this is a message that people need to hear so that we can relate to each other in a more emotionally intelligent way. But it's not really a groundbreaking or nuanced insight to be honest. Rick's observations about spouses in stable, long-term relationships working out their differences in fraught situations really piqued my interest and it's too bad that the dialogue around that point was shut down rather than opened up and explored. It was a missed opportunity. I wanted to know: under what circumstances is that frustrated approach successful and what can that be attributed to? Obviously you're not going to confront your work colleague or neighbor in the same way you confront your spouse and I have some theories as to why this approach worked but I sure would have liked to hear Rick's take on it. Also I don't understand what the objection was around that example not applying to a wide audience as many, many people are married and frustrated with their spouses. Surely much of your audience demographic is Western, highly educated, English speaking...I don't know whose needs you were addressing and maybe I just don't know the needs of the show and am mistaken but that seemed like a whiff to me. Still a good show though--thanks.
I was married to what turned out to be a violent narcissist who was in another relationship we even did marriage guidance for a year without him mentioning his other relationship. Not all relationships are salvageable or worth the pain
@@mariGentle I agree that not all relationships are worth saving. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.
Having two boys growing up i wrote recently regaurding the passage of time - "Fatherhood slides into brotherhood". Having children makes one realise their own father is just a guy, doing their best, making mistakes as we all do and taking wins at times. We all have an alloted energy quotient to spend energeticaly on relationships. When dad is just a guy again instead of your biggest hero fatherhood slides into Brotherhood. As it rightfully should. And outright BLAME becomes impossible once again, as it was when you were a child.
Fantastic insights, I completely loved how instantly defended Forrest was at the end when Dad said how come you're so good at this when you're not married etc. Forrest was like what's the difference between marriage and being together 7 years. So beautiful, teachers are all still learning ❤❤❤
If you pull someone’s mask off it is disaster for the person who isn’t ready and insecure. Love heals all I agree it must be done in gentleness like you would like someone to do to you
Re. the motivations behind behaviour, this is why I find typology so useful!
It's so interesting and fosters greater understanding if you know you or someone else's type. Type 7s, for example, are going to gravitate towards what's most interesting and more fun for them, because they're trying to avoid their unconscious pain. Type 1s can be critical because they're trying to do things 'right' and be fair for the greater good. Type 3s will cut corners in tasks, because it's more important for them to be efficient and seen as achieving. Whereas the type 1 would spend time to do the task perfectly etc.
It would really be interesting to do an episode with someone like Russ Hudson who could open people's eyes to what a useful tool the enneagram is in understanding ones own behaviour and blind spots. Not to mention how it helps in having more successful relationships when you know and understand the types of people in your sphere.
Love this! And following the path of integration. Type 7 here.
I love this topic. A lot of the time people (included) are not aware when the psychological defense is up. The partner, having known you for some time, likely can notice it as obviously as a physical shield. The process of disarming, or at least making the other person become aware of the psychological defense is super interesting to me.
Wonderful conversation!!! It left me with a lot to consider and resources to help me and my colleagues, friends and family!
I’d say this works some of the time. For more “extroverted” or people higher on the dominance scale you have to be willing to have the conflict head-on.
finally, something worthwhile to listen to while at work. Thanks guys.
Great discussion thank you. Noticed my own projection recently. A friend who is a therapist and therefore, I thought, self aware. When I asked for some conversation around both of us getting our needs met, the response was so negative that she ended the friendship. Lesson learned.
Rick, your person A & person B description (at around 18 mins) was so amazingly helpful to me. As person A, I find myself going into a kind of fight or flight feeling when I get that jarring response from person B. I get stuck in that state of heightened anxiety/shut down and the only way I seem to be able to escape those feelings is to end the relationship. Otherwise, I can't eat, sleep or function properly. If anyone has any insight into that then please let me know!
I'm no therapist, but here's what I would do:
First of all I would say it is important for you to expand your understanding of nervous system activation and forgive yourself for not being able to to do anything besides panic while being activated. Know that priority # 1 is that you need to re-establish a feeling of safety so that you feel comfortable before you even start looking at this difficult thing. This is truly difficult, know that you are being brave for confronting it, and that it is totally okay if you need to stop at any point, any amount of times so long as you return eventually when it feels safe again. No matter how slow, progress is always progress and progress with trauma that has been stored in the body needs to happen at the body's pace.
From there, I would try to analyze what those situations have in common inside me, what common triggers are being pushed. What I feel that it might be saying about me as a person, and what consequences I fear it might implicate.
You might find it helpful to look into Attachment Styles - particularly Avoidant Attachment style, or Anxious-Avoidant, and see whether it might be describing you. At the very least, being aware of it might help you observe it more patiently and compassionately within yourself. I’d also personally examine what kinds of conflict resolution was modelled for you (or if any was modelled at all) growing up. I find that can really inform what we want - or don’t want - in our own lives. Sometimes avoiding what we saw modeled (or what was forced for us to model) can feel more worthwhile than the relationship itself. Whether or not that’s accurate is an entirely different question and will depend on the relationship. Reparenting yourself in this topic may be something you’d find helpful if the models given to you through life have hindered you rather than served you to help you grow and flourish.
And since they’re saying they’ll do a talk on Shadow Work next week, that would likely be something you could really benefit from listening to. Recognizing your shadow with more patience and compassion (whether presented to you by someone else’s insights or their actions) might help you to “respond” to issues in relationships rather than “reacting” to them.
I hope something here might resonate and help you! I relate to this, too, and am working through it myself. These are some subjects that I’ve found to be insightful so far. Additionally you may appreciate Non-Violent Communication strategies (via the book or the videos; don’t be too turned away by the giraffe. 😅) wishing you healthy healing!
I love you guys. Best regards to Elizabeth too.💓 Thank you.
dr. rick role playing drops an f bomb lol. he is of the age range where i would consider it rude to swear in their presence. so it took me a bit by surprise. but i think its important to allow swearing :)
Wonderful!!! Absolutely helpful and insightful. Thank you❤🎉
Thanks Forrest! Are you planning to have some more guests on your talks? If so, may I suggest Frank Anderson MD?
Thank you both.
I feel like it takes time to build trust, even with the most gentle and empathetic approach, between people to create a safe environment where defenses are quieter and slower to arise.
Build trust in your people that you will not react in a way that makes them feel shamed. They may eventually see you as a safe person to give and receive constructive criticism and curiosity.
Thanks for yet another great episode, and I'm so much looking to the next one on shadow, one of my favorite concepts in Jungian psychology! Other concepts could be worth exploring too, in particular the anima-animus, as there's so much confusing information online about masculine and feminine energies, healthy dynamics and polarity often with references to Jung, and it might be useful to go back to Jung's original works to see what he actually wrote and to what extent his ideas might still be relevant for us today.
Oh my word - Dad is so handsome! 😊
Link to Rick's attachment class? Thank you!
Custom made for me today. Thanks.
Thanks to you both!
One more add, when you come up against VERY damaged people, it's not worth the effort. Eg my family are a nest of psychopathic narcissists, don't fight nature. I have done NVC it's so valuable ❤
Thank you! ❤
Interesting yet kind of pg-13. DV discussion please
Gotta say it, Forest looks like a sexy little vampire
Thank you 😊😊😊
Where is the link for the workshop?
haha u guys make me laugh so much!
The only other Forrest I know is Gump
Forrest saving my marriage in real time!
"well screw you dad" in some cultures we would never speak that way.
Some cultures that are generationally dysfunctional put responsibilities on the children that are not theirs.
Why?
@@venusdoom90 It's seen as disrespectful.
@@ellev11 why is it seen as disrespectful?
In some cultures playful banter is a form of affection when both people know and respect the boundaries