INFERNO CANTO 8 explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Synopsis and analysis of Canto VIII of Dante’s Inferno.
1. Flashback used at the beginning
2. Phlegyas the boatman
3. Filippo Argenti
4. “Disdegno” as righteous anger
5. The City of Dis
6. Virgil fails to get in the city
English translations used for this video:
1) Robert Pinsky, "The Inferno of Dante: A New Verse Translation", Bilingual Edition. You can find it here: www.amazon.com/dp/0374524521/...
About "righteous anger", from Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics: "The man who is angry at the right things and with the right people, and, further, as he ought, when he ought, and as long as he ought, is praised. This will be the good-tempered man, then, since good temper is praised. For the good-tempered man tends to be unperturbed and not to be led by passion, but to be angry in the manner, at the things, and for the length of time, that the rule dictates; but he is thought to err rather in the direction of deficiency; for the good-tempered man is not revengeful, but rather tends to make allowances.
The deficiency, whether it is a sort of 'irascibility' or whatever it is, is blamed. For those who are not angry at the things they should be angry at are thought to be fools, and so are those who are not angry in the right way, at the right time, or with the right persons; for such a man is thought not to feel things nor to be pained by them, and, since he does not get angry, he is thought unlikely to defend himself; and to endure being insulted and put up with insult to one's friends is slavish."
Please ask any questions about this Canto in the comments. I will keep trying to upload at least one video every week.
Great discussion about Aristotle & righteous anger and how it is the midpoint for wrath and sullen. Also for pointing out Virgil's difficulties moving from mythological creatures to Christian ones.
The point you make about Dante having his writings retrieved and being encourage to continue his work is such a good one. I feel like that would explain the later part of the Canto where he crosses Filippo and has so much anger towards him. Its as if, in the time b/w the writing of the first 7 Cantos and picking back up on the 8th Canto, he in some way had to deal with Filippo and writing him into this Canto was his way of venting his frustrations about whatever the real world interaction would have been.
I had never thought about this angle and it’s really a good point. Thanks for sharing!
After listening you around this Canto 8, I am convinced Hollywood will knock on your door (given it's so close) to help create a new modern film of it all.
No producer has been brave enough yet!! But I’ll be waiting 😜😂
I always wondered why Dante not only quit having pity over the sinners, but wished more suffering upon them. I didn't know the history behind this--thanks for the clarification. Also, continuing from last comment and the mention of all those who Dante influenced (the never ending list)--this Canto always brings me to read T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men. The imagery, and the river of Styx, as Eliot wrote so much about Dante and how much he was influenced by him, I wouldn't be the least surprised if this Canto was what sparked that poem (my personal favorite of his).
Thank you - I’ve just looked up “The Hollow Men” and you’re so right. Everything in that poem sounds like it’s been influenced by Dante. I’ve read that Eliot with that poem was lamenting the West’s (or Europe’s) cultural decline and overall difficulty with the concept of God ... From a broad perspective, not much seems to have changed today, as we live in a society where to say you’re catholic or christian or muslim feels to some like a personal insult, or, at best, it’s seen as your inability to understand that the only acceptable moral stance is that of absolute moral relativism ...
@@tomlabooks3263 I could not agree more with you on that one--as well would T.S. Eliot.
As others have commented, the note about Aristotle and righteous anger is appreciated - it makes more sense now. Though I can't help but think the Pilgrim's feelings of vengefulness go a bit too far maybe.
As usual my first thought was .."Beautiful".... thank you Tom. Wishing you a very Happy New Year to you also. Now back to my reading (LOL)
Thanks so much Lee! So glad you’re enjoying the Commedia.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion! I am following along with Baylor's 100 Days of Dante project, but still had some remaining questions after watching their video on Canto 8. You provided so many fascinating points, particularly Virgil's adversaries up to now coming from classical mythology as opposed to "real" demons. I was wondering, besides the significance of human reasoning on its own not being enough to defeat evil, is there also significance that the guardians of Dis are where demons more directly resist the will of God? Something symbolic to do with the difference of the sins of the appetites that we've seen up to now vs. the "worse" sins being punished past this point? I feel like there could be something to this, but I don't have a full enough grasp of the text to articulate it in my mind!
Hi Tori - the answer is “yes”! Even the physical height from one level to the other stands in allegorically to signify how much worse the lower sins are. Also, Dante tends to elevate each cantica (including Purg. and Para.) to a next and more intense level after cantos 9 or 10. The more serious sins are, the more difficult it is for human beings to fight off demons (temptations and bad habits), and Dante reflects this to perfection.
One last thing: keep in mind that the structure of Inferno is based on Aristotle’s ethics, while the structure of Purgatorio and Paradiso will be based on Saint Thomas and Saint Augustine (mainly). I hope this helps.
I was quite shocked reading this canto, seeing Dante so bitterly angry and even vindictive towards someone suffering the torments of hell after previously being so sympathetic. Your explanation was welcome.
Right? It takes you by surprise. It’s so unfair when they say “Oh, Dante, that guy who took revenge on his enemies by putting them into hell”, because of all the multiple meanings that he packed in, but the fact remains that he was human and, when it comes to Inferno, he also had some fun with a few people.
Thanks I’ve received the notification for your note about the Uffizi’s exhibition (strangely I don’t see it here). Wow. I didn’t know about it. They’re wonderful. Interesting that it’s been set up to commemorate his death (700 years ago in September 2021).
@@tomlabooks3263 I wonder if TH-cam hide it because it contains a Web link so it could be spam.
I really liked the complexity of this canto . Did anyone get Lord if the Rings vibes in the first part ...Mordor ...Later in the boat it's almost as if Dante the author still can't quite step away from his very real anger about his situation and fully articulate the concept of righteous indignation in the text ...maybe he was still angry when he wrote it ....anyhow I think the reader is left confused as to why it's ok for Dante in the text to be angry and needs to do a lot of work in understanding the difference between wrath and righteous anger .. that scene with the mosques was shocking ... understandable given the context but shocking ....
I agree with you Hester, I have no doubt that he 1) still had strong personal feelings towards this situation; and 2) he can't and probably doesn't even want to step away from "Dante the character". I am convinced that, in his mind, there wasn't a really clear separation between what was real /factual and what was going on in his imagination. His job was "being a poet", after all ! Thanks for your comment.
Good point .. the blurring of real life, fiction and the spiritual is no longer the norm ...on another point someone raised the poem Hollow Men by TS Eliot a few days ago and how Inferno echoed in this poem...I've just come across this in Robert Alter's magnificent translation of The Hebrew Bible ..Job 11.11 " And a hollow man will get a wise heart when a wild ass is born to man " . Very pungent .....Not sure how it fits but it's so exciting to see how phrases sustain across millenia. It's like mining into the geology of our culture
@@hesterdunlop7948 It really is. The more I learn about a masterwork (in various types of art, not only literature) the more I realize how much it actually owes to previous works and all the tradition that precedes it. Everything is connected!
It was disturbing to see the pilgrim getting angry in the circle where anger is the sin. The discussion about “righteous anger” was helpful, except doesn’t everyone who gets angry feel their anger is righteous?When Virgil embraces him, the biblical language reminded me of the scene where Jesus gets angry in the temple. BUT, when the pilgrim asks to see Argento suffer and Virgil acquiesces, I felt a crack in the artistry-it felt like Dante the man was imposing on his creation and I didn’t buy it. Perhaps, if I had to argue FOR Dante the artist, I might say his anger (along with the progressive weakening of Virgil’s power and influence) is appropriate at this point, that the pilgrim is not yet free from the dangers of sin, and his anger here proves it. Whew! That’s a lot to take in all at once. You deal with the text beautifully, and I always feel like we’re in good hands in your discussions.
You’re making such excellent points here. About righteous anger, St. Thomas follows Aristotle and says “he that is angry without cause, shall be in danger; but he that is angry with cause, shall not be in danger: for without anger, teaching will be useless, judgments unstable, crimes unchecked," and concludes saying that "to be angry is therefore not always an evil." Yes most angry people will feel they’re righteous... I guess we’d need to always have an element of love and compassion in our anger, for it to be righteous (like Jesus with the Farisees), although personally I don’t think I would be able to distinguish all these kinds of anger .... especially when I’m driving on L.A.’s freeways : )
In any case, you are right about Dante the poet: I am convinced that in this scene (and others, later on) he is also showing us his own faults as a man. Some critics said that Virgil’s Luke quote is there to tell us that both Dante and Virgil are not entirely right here, because in the Gospel, when the woman screams that same “compliment” to Jesus about his mother, he corrects her by saying “blessed is he who follows God’s will” or something.... SO much food for thought!! Thanks as always for the stimulating discussion.
Hi ! I hope you had a good weekend. I've just published a new video called "The Divine Comedy Reader tag" and tagged you too. This is my very first original tag video so, not knowing if there's an automated way to notify tagged people (?), I thought I'd let you know here. Would be great to hear your thoughts about it.
@@tomlabooks3263 Thank you! It'll be a while before I'm ready to do any tags but rest assured I'll look at it and see if I can come up with something after this sonnet season is over. I'm amazed at how you can pump out your videos in such quick succession. I need tons of time to read, organize my thoughts and write something bawdy/silly/interesting enough to present. In any case, I'm loving reading Dante along with you and your crew of intelligent followers.
@@TootightLautrec It helps that I've already read it 3 times : ) But now that my regular work has resumed, I'll generally be able to do videos only in the weekends. I've noticed that your videos are really well-prepared and entertaining, which is not easy to do... I love anything that drives people to make these kind of efforts purely based on their passion.
@@readingclassics3895 I would agree with that interpretation. Anger can be very contagious. And yes, Dante can definitely fry our brains!!
You should check out my gothic romance novel '40,000 Words'. It follows Adelaide Parabellum as the arrival of poems from beyond the grave causes her to recollect how she had met a stranger at a pond eight years prior. '40,000 Words' can be found by searching '40,000 Words Nicholas Leonard' on Amazon. God bless
The concept of righteous anger seems to be a bridge between the ideal oversimplified theoretical model of good and evil and pragmatic reality. If we exclude the possibility of this episode being a smearing attempt, it would have been good if Dante provided more hints on the rationale of his righteous anger.
When it comes to demonising of islam, I think that the approach here is standard for the period. The Divine Comedy follows on centuries of French ”chanson de geste”, e.g. The Song of Roland, where epic poems have been utilised as propaganda tools in the great war of the time between christians and muslims.
Thanks Dario for your comments. About the relationship with Islam I’d like to understand a little better (or learn about) the period of time from the Arab conquest of Spain (9th century?) called “Golden age of Islam”, because despite conflicts here and there, it seems like Christianity and Islam were able to co-exist peacefully in many regions for some time. As you say, in Dante’s times muslims were largely demonised by the mainstream culture, but I’d like to better understand the evolution of this cultural attitude in the preceding centuries.
There are numerous books on the subject. There is also a good summary in ”A History of World Societies” by Wiesner-Hanks et al. Hit me on Voxer (motleyreads) and I can show you.
@@darioa1345 Will do. thanks.