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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- I've always been extremely fond of Gwyndolin for gender reasons but I am the last person who will claim that just because a character means something to me they are therefore without problems.
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“Yeah but what’s in your pants?”
“Snakes.”
Best comment
At this exact moment ? Mace and a bag of cookies. Never know when I'll have to run someone off or need a snack.
I always read him as a eunuch under the assumption that, after the firstborn son’s betrayal, Gwyn became paranoid of the idea of an heir usurping him and had Seethe emasculate the infant Gwyndolin by replacing his lower body with snakes. The fact Gwyndolin and his covenant are also obsessed with servitude and stewardship felt symbolic of the real-world history and treatment of eunuchs as the perfect servants and guardians of sacred places.
I think my interpreting Gwyndolin this way is largely informed by my own non-binary identity. Most of my also queer friends similarly interpret Gwyndolin in ways that match their identities as well. Everyone seeing what they want to somehow feels all the more apt for the cunning illusionist who fooled an entire city into thinking their sun was still shining. Perhaps their gender is illusions all the way down.
Bonus thought: whilst the Dark Souls games are no strangers to Manichaean imagery, Gwyndolin taking the form of a scylla in particular always stood out to me because part of Manichaean belief is that the upper half of the human body was created in the image of the god of light whilst the lower half created in the image of the god of darkness.
I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier but snakes in eastern cultures are similarly associated with guarding sacred places in the form of nagas. The Buddha is said to have given some of his more radical teachings to a naga to keep safe until the world was ready for the truth held within; Gwyndolin mirrors this in a way by guarding the truth of the fire's fading (a truth he believes his world is similarly unprepared for) with illusions of the sun and his sister.
AND OH MY GOD I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THAT ABRASAX - WHO IS THE LEADER OF THE ARCHONS IN GNOSTICISM - IS ALSO DEPICTED WITH SNAKES FOR LEGS, TASKED WITH KEEPING THE ILLUSION OF THE MATERIAL WORLD ON BEHALF OF THE DEMIURGE!
Okay, I think I'm done for real this time.
I never quite raised a brow at gwendolin having been brought up as a a Girl but later being referred to as male, for it was a thing historicly done in Japan. Raising a sickly male child as female and then later, when they are "grown" have them reclaim their birth sex, for it was thought as protecting then.
(whatever that is sexist, or whatever everyone has to come to their own, hopefully culturally informed, oppinion, I am not going there)
So I did not really think about it, Yorshka speaks of her brother and as they care deeply for eachother, I assume she would not misgender him. Being raised as a girl was not his choice, so I never took it as a "proof" of him being trans or identifying as female. Having spend most of his time, however he identifies, it is not supprising he still presents himself in what he probably is comfortable through familiarity.
He could be identifying female of cause, but unless he says so, or someone he would have told, I would not asign it to him. Non binary, crossdressing, trans, intersex all possibilities, neither one anything to judge or talk down about, all equally valid.
Whichever one is true though, I really appreciate it that you took the opportunity to talk about intersex and the disgusting treatment their have to go through for our society is obcessed by enforcing binarity. Fare to few people know it is a thing to beginn with and even less are aware what it actually means for those individuals.
He/they, in practical terms, and from an outside perspective, sounds most accurate then
@@HumanTooth yeah, in case of ambiguity they always is an option or just what they themselfs use even if one suspects they might only go with it for "ease".
The BBC show uncle has a very interesting character, Val, who was assigned male at birth, uses a female name, dresses very confidently in female attire, referes to himself with male pronouns, calls himself a father, but also uses female words in figuritive speach. He is specified to be trans, but as far as I am aware, it is not really talked about. He is fierce, rules his gay bar with an iron fist, is an awesome, very close and intimidating dad for his daughter. He also is an absolutly awesome friend to her on and of again boyfriend he started out as hating for being in an not quite working relationship with said daughter. It is an unlikely friendship, but simply the best. Val is by far the best thing in the show and the most beloved character. Val is never the butt of a joke, very layered written and stunningly preformed.
TH-cam has "best of val" content that is absolutly worth watching, even if one is not inclined to watch the show. He is funny as hell, sassy as hell and in his own way so very kind and the moment that kindness gets returned made me cry, he raised that boy very well in the end.....
Do you know any sources where l can look more into the japanese tradition thing? I've tried looking it up myself on google but found no results
My partner, who is intersex, also told me that the surgery done on intersex babies are done without knowledge of their parents. Their mom just found out this surgery was performed on her kids. They’re 25.
Depends on where you are and what doc I imagine but lireraly wtf......
@@SingingSealRiana In Chicago, it's apparently legal. Upon investigation, Mom found she can't sue or anything cause no laws were broken.
@@Shadow1Yaz Yeah, it’s generally taken as something that is ‘better’ for the child’s ‘health’ or some wacky stuff.
I have no words other than......
Jesus Christ
I don’t know what the surgery entails, but their hormones were f*cked up. They need to be on hrt to let their body not fall apart. Also, the surgery didn’t exactly work. Both parts still work, they’re just mutilated.
It’s almost like you should wait until the organs are MATURE before you do surgery on them like trans people do.
I view gwyndolyn as a feminine man. He presents femininely, with it first being forced upon him, but later he found comfort in presenting in a feminine manner.
I really really don’t like the idea of Gwyndolin being trans. The entire idea behind their character is how much importance on tradition and keeping Gwyn’s ideals alive mattered to the Gods (to the point of doing horrible things to their progeny). Gwyndolin during his reign identified as male, Yorshka states as much, and the ring of reversal is discarded. This is all AFTER the dream of his father is dead and his power left in a bygone era. Not only that everyone refers to him ans he/him, even the illusion he created of his sister calls him brother. I highly dislike the interpretation that he is a transgirl because that would mean if you force someone to act as a gender they are not they are trans. It’s highly problematic and makes being trans less of something on always chooses and more into something you can just force onto individuals, which you cannot, you can’t force anyone to be trans.
Being FORCIBLY raised as another gender because you align with the moon isn’t being trans. It’s abuse. If we say Gwyndolin is trans we admit you can FORCE someone to be trans, which means we would also have to admit you could force someone to be cis. Thankfully you can’t force either. Gender identification is an immutable characteristic.
I am confused: did you watch the video? Asking because that's a pretty detailed comment yet it leaves out the intersex hypothesis starting point of the video.
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 The intersex hypothesis wouldn’t make sense either lore-wise unless we really stretch definitons.
My main point was on the problematic idea of him being trans. There is no evidence of this, nothing supports it, and yet people do it to find representation which is unfortunate (us trans people shouldn’t have to do that) but in situations like these the representation sought isn’t good representation, it’s a portrayal of abuse from an orthodox family.
A person who was forcibly raised as female who identifies as male? You mean like many real world trans men? It's not that much of a stretch to take this concept as an allegory for being trans
@@arlaux1099 Agreed; I feel like if they consider themselves "he" or male, they are.
Yeah... this is a really messy topic, everyone is going to have their own opinions, and some of those opinions are going to be very strong. Personally, speaking I can't really see Gwyndolyn as trans, although I can see their experience as something that could be very relatable to such. They want to be one thing, but everyone tells them they have to be something else.
By my own interpretations Gwyndolyn was identified male at birth, but due to the whole moon thing was always treated as a daughter. They are basically a medieval fantasy counterpart to those messed up experiments some "scientists" tried to run to see what happens if you raise someone as the opposite gender. Although in this example it seems to be more akin to some kind of political arrangement combined with royals hiding away a deformed child.
Point is I read Gwyndolyn as born male, raised female, self-identifying as male, but still presenting as female because it's the only identity they've ever been allowed to have and feels like they have to keep up pretenses as daddy commanded. The fact Gwyndolin sits around guarding their fathers empty tomb speaks to some serious daddy issues. Gwyndolyn is both desperate for their father's approval while also seeking to assert themselves as Gwyn's rightful heir, and as such is caught between two words.
Does this interpretation rob Gwyndolin of their agency? Absolutely! As with most characters in Dark Souls Gwyndolin is tragic figure, never allowed to truly choose for themself who they want to be, and yet still yearning for approval from the same father who stripped them of that choice. It's all just one more sin to add to the crimes of the Lord of Cynder, may his very ashes continue to burn.
Have a similar read
I completely agree, to think that the creators are transphobic and that they created gwyndolin having a trans image in their heads is a blind and westernist idea, because first of all gwyndolin was created in the image of Griffith, a feminine man and also Japanese culture it has a very different image of the genre from the western one; and exactly as you say, the case of Gwyndolin talks about a tragedy where it was the culture and the desires of others who shaped him without giving him the opportunity to choose anything, that is his tragedy, that of being the king who follows orders from a dead man.
By the way, I would also like to see the irony of how the hidden and least valued son will end up being the most loyal and the last hope to maintain Gwyn's legacy, after all he is the one who maintains the lie of the legend of the undead long enough to create a lord of ashes status for some royal children until the time of Dark Souls 3 where basically while the firstborn will be king the rest will serve as martyrs. Also in Dark Souls 3 I like to think that he finally ends up looking for his own path, removing the illusion of Anor Londo and laying the mantle of the moon over all of Irithil, which I am sure is the sunless lands where Sirris comes from. , one more proof is the ring he used to maintain feminine mannerisms and the fact that it is kept in a chest leads me to the idea that it is one more proof of his freedom... at least the one he had in his last days as king of the gods.
They are trans masc then bc they are afab, even if they are "biologically male"
Now I need a video on Miquella and his/her gender
Edit: Also, THERE’S A COFFIN THAT CAN CHANGE YOUR GENDER?
That really gives deadname a whole new meaning
Damned, how did I not notice that, this is hilarious ^^
Miqella is always referred as a male in dialogues and descriptions, I guess he kept his hair long and "feminine" because of his other identity as saint Trina, also in Elden Ring long hair seem to be associated with royalty (all the demigods have long hair), or maybe he just liked them
@@spacecowboy5486 That’s what I mean though. Miquella has that other identity as Saint Trina, who uses she/her pronouns, while Miquella uses he/him pronouns, so it brings up an interesting discussion on Miquella’s gender
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004Yeah but I mean Miquella is barely present in the story. Unless we’re getting some DLC soon, (which I hope), It would all just be speculation and assuming things. Its kind of hard to deduct a theory on a character’s gender when we know SO little.
@@ohwow5171 Miquella’s story feels like it’s the best one for a DLC so here’s hoping
I (as someone who has not substantially interacted with DS3 yet), always read the "connection to the moon" thing as a really flowery, darksoulsy way of saying "whatever counts as AFAB in this world" and therefore read Gwyndolin as some flavor of transmasc and I still like that headcanon enough to keep it, but I now also understand where transfem Gwyndolin comes from
It is really ambiguous
I never saw Gwyndolin as a trans woman specifically because he always used masculine pronouns. Even Yorshka uses he/him for Gwyndolin and refers to him as her brother. It's as simple as that for me.
I never saw gwyndolin as a trans/intersex person, nor I think they were made with transphobia in mind (well I’m not a trans/intersex person so I can’t say that for sure), but I always viewed them as just a cultural thing, on how Japanese culture view characters like that and how we westerns interpret them
You see gwyndolin was inspired by Griffith from berserk, a feminine man, and in Japanese culture feminine man are a trope that usually follow 2 archetypes, mysterious and/or caring (is this a probably view, yes; Is this done with malice ? Usually not), and you can’t deny that those are the 2 characteristics that defy them the most.
So for me at least gwyndolin wasn’t made with any specific gender in mind, nor with transphobia, and was just following a character archetype and when the game became popular overseas that people both started to support and hate that idea, we can’t forget that there’s also the question of ambiguity to avoid controversy and not sell the game in countries that have a very negative view on queer people.
I kinda like TB Skyen second interpretattion
Assinged male, raised as female to uphold the religious traditions of moon=female and sun=male, but they rebelled against it, so much so that in their boss fight, they take the name dark sun.
Also, tsukoyomi
It isn’t really speculation that Gwyndolin is a child of Priscilla and Gwyn (by forcing himself on her, of course; since he wasn’t enough of a douchebag already), as it is confirmed in the original Japanese. Unfortunately the entire DS trilogy is riddled with mistranslations and inaccuracies. So yeah, Gwyndolin is 1/4 dragon, as are Yorshka and the Painter (both Gwyndolin’s half-sisters); Priscilla’s parents seem to be Seath and Velka (an affair, as Seath should have been betrothed to Gwynevere).
So to recap: Gwyndolin inherited the power of the Moon from Seath and Darkness from Velka, creating the Dark Moon; combined with the power of the Sun from his father they become the Dark Sun, or as I like to interpret it the Eclipse. This would make the a combination of feminine (the Moon), masculine (the Sun), and neutral (the Darkness). In conclusion, Gwyndolin’s magic and power are in of themselves gender-non-conforming.
there was a really cool essay on the old clubgwydolin subreddit discussing gwyndolin’s transness. it looked at all of the real world religious inspirations for gwyndolin and how those deities were historically trans beings. For example, Gwyndolin’s crown is the star of Inanna. A Sumerian Diety of Sex and the changing of seasons and changing of gender. There's so much history of transfeminine deities and transfeminine people being close to divinity. There's so much history of it yet so little media representation of it. I love having Gwyndolin as a popular media example of a trans deity in a world where the real life trans deities are erased from history.
Gwyndolin's ambiguous gender situation may also be taking notes from Tsukuyomi, the Japanese god of the moon who was assumed a woman until one single document was found proving his gender as a man and Amaterasu's husband. Food for thought I suppose
Gwyndolin is a man who was raised as a daughter, he was forced and molded into his role due to his connection with the moon powers.
He never chose his life he was forced into it.
In DS3 he had taken over the role of King until he got sick.
So i wonder if he broke out of his abusive upbringing to become his own person.
Japan loves their forced upbringing stories where a gender is forced by their parents / parent to act like the opposite gender.
Male as females and females as males.
So this type of thing can be confusing for western ideology,
Short answer no
Funny, you do realize by saying that, you are agreeing with the person in the video right? But I bet you didn’t even watch it
One of my partners is called Gwendolyn.
And like all my current partners, she is trans. (Why yes, she's drop dead gorgeous)
If your polycule doesn't find a way to work in Dark Souls references occasionally, I will be very disappointed
Not like... in y'all or anything, just that my head cannon would be confirmed incorrect.
T4T for the win
I'm a trans girl myself, and I feel like gwyndolin isn't TRANS persay, but more like an allegory for us. but I also understand why people speculate.
It's really pathetic looking back at some videos, comments, and messages outside their arena, how much trans fetishism is so deeply ingrained in the community.
I was going to upvote this comment as reasonable because of the top half...
But then I saw the shitty second half of the comment where you judged everyone who uses the great message "amazing trap ahead" and called them pathetic for being into Gwyndolin. Certainly, when I use that message, it is out of nothing but love for Gwyndolin.
So to hell with you...
Gwyndolin is my favorite Dark Souls character. And this is something I think about every time I replay the games, because you have good basis for both sides.
Side note: I'm pretty sure the eldest left AFTER Gwyn linked the fire. So on that one front, Gwyn's innocent.
I didnt play too much dark souls , but isnt their story more akin to those fucked up experiments on those twins , where they raised one as a girl after genital mutilation. It doesnt exactly feel like great represantation in any real way , but im cis so idk
In Japan they have a tradition to raise a male child of poor health as a girl until a certain age as a means to protect them. From what I gethered the child is aware of their birth sex and that they will later reassume it, it is not a commentary on genderidentity, or being trans in that way, but it of cause can open the discussion of genderqueerness and identity.
@@SingingSealRiana thx for clarification im bot aware of many cultures and thought it be that weird gender expirement trabspphobes use
@@SingingSealRiana: I wasn't entirely aware of the "protection" aspect of it either. Still kind of messed up, but maybe I've judged Gwyn's treatment of Gwyndolyn harsher than it was ever intended to be taken.
@@theimmortaleye7511 well, that this practice exists/existed does not mean, that the things you noticed can not also play into it. But it probably does play into it at least a bit for the games are Japanese in origin
@@EmeralBookwise it is hard to acuratly judge something as messed up, if one lacks the context and cultural awareness to really understand it, but I get you. It has the potential to be very messed up especially with the examples we tend to know, outside of those practice tend to definitely be messed up.
If I had the choice between my child having to play a girl until they grow up or well, probably not reach that age at all, I know which one I would prefer though if you get what I mean.
I gotta respectfully disagree with you. You can't just call the entire community and the developer transphobic, simply because of your own interpretation of the story. I get it, there definitely are some, but I think you are interpreting a bit too much. I hope this wasn't rude, I just wanted to share my opinion.
I love Gwyndolin. She's amazing because due to her having used both male (ds3) and female (ds1) pronouns you can make any argument you want for her being trans female, or gender fluid or anything. She's amazing representation and incredible for using her as a spring board to talk about how LGBTQ+ kids are abused and how abuse can affect people She's just wonderful.
Forcing someone to be trans makes them trans… here I thought as a trans person that’d be called abuse.
In Dark Souls 1 they take on a female appearance because he is still at the behest of his father and his family’s traditions. Gwyndolin is forced into the position of acting like a woman, looking female, and effectively being a women. We know though that this was never his identity. The illusion of Gwynevere he created refers to him as he and brothers. The person he raises (Yorshka) refers to him as he. He eventually discards the Ring of Reversal which aided in his appearance in the first game and in the third game appears more masculine because of that. Gwyndolin is a boy, used he/him pronouns and isn’t she/her, at all. Saying so is objectively negative for the trans community because you’re saying forcing someone to be trans would make them trans, and I’m not sure you’d say the same about forcing people to be cis.
Also, referring to Gwyn as father Gwyn may very well be a religious title
I really like to listening to Oakwrym's videos while drawing or doing 3d stuff, his voice is so relaxing and the topics are so interesting, i love this channel sm.
I've never really seen Gwyndolin as a trans woman BUT as a trans man his character feels very relatable to me. I know it's not exactly the same, but there's something there about being born as a man yet being forced into the role of a woman while growing up. It really feels like Gwyn would be the transphobic parent in denial while his siblings all accept him as a man despite his feminine looks. There's also the fact that he later reclaims his identity as Gwyn's son and quite literally sheds the female identity that was forced upon him. So I see him as a feminine man, but that's just my opinion. Let's be real, no matter how you look at this character, they are very trans allegory in either direction lmao
Gwyndolin being gender fluid is also possible.
Crossdressing, agender, non binary, intersex, trans... It is very ambigues
... Calling Gwendolin a trap is both culturaly disrespectful and generally disgusting. Wtf people?! How can people be so self-absorbed to assume, that someones whole existence could be a ploy to trick them specifically?!
Cuz it look female so that what is going to be precived
It doesn't really help that in the story of the game Gwyndolin is indeed a deceiver, not actually of the sexual variety, but they are pretty much the architect behind the entire false prophesy being used to trick undead into sacrificing themselves to perpetuate the age of fire.
@@hbsupreme1499 so what, a female would not look female for it is just who they are, no they look female to serve those people?
Sorry but, how is it culturally disrespectful though? I always saw Gwyndolin as a Dionysus parallel:
The son of the head god (The head god also happening to be a god of lightning) being raised as a girl.
@@boxlessone1046 it was a thing in Japan to raise a male child of poor health as a female up to a certain age, to heighten the chance it will reach that age at all. That's why one will find that trope quite often without much explanation or drama around the child's genderidentity. From what I know they are aware of their sex and that they will reassume the usually assigned gender later on in life.
It is impossible to always know all the background and who knows what, but that is why one should be careful before shittalking something one does not understand. There might be a lot of history, cultural segnificance and plain different morals involved in it and it does not make sense to pass judgment on something one got no clue about.
Contexts are impotent, change the intentions of actions and inform what we perceive as moral.
Nothing about this tradition has anything to do with "tricking and trapping" a man.
So I noticed the ring your avatar is wearing and an asexual flag in one of your speedpaints so I'm asking, are you ace?
Plot twist: What if Gwyndolin is biologically female, but identifies as a male?
Yesss
I agree whole heartedly and fought about it in conversation before.
Whatever interpretation you might have on Gwyndolin, the only certain thing is that Fromsoft accidentally unleashed a shit ton of repressed anger from the transphobes by creating this character. I was honestly surprised to find that the "Dumbass Guide to Anor Londo" video calls Gwyndolin a tranny, twice (i am trans i can say that), we all know transphobia is slowly dying out (and lets pray it keeps doing that) but damn, i wouldn't have expected such a big channel to be a part of it. Now we can't know if the term was used ironically or with malicious intent, or if the person behind the "Dumbass Guide To" channel is trans, but i don't think neither of those are the case.
And seeing how you have mentioned it, this character has been absolutely desacrated with the sexualizing and fetishizing. I get simping on a fictional character, whatever bro you do you, but when that becomes the only thing the character is known for, and when most of the sexualizing comes from fetishes, that's just disgusting. I have found exactly one and i repeat one video on tiktok that legitemately encourages the viewers to share their opinions on Gwyndolin and discuss them as a character. Frankly it is ridiculous how their intricate and tragic lore gets ignored by most Soulsborne fans because "ew tranny" "haha femboy" "rule 34 material" "smash". Honestly looking at them, perhaps some Fromsoft employees knew it was gonna happen and wanted to use this character to show how gross society can really get, i respect that. And I honestly feel bad for Gwyndolin's voice actor, i wonder if he knows what has become of the character he's voiced (at least Lothric, who was also dubbed by him, gets treated with more respect for all I know).
And frankly I also feel bad for the people who worked on Gwyndolin's lore and character, yes some of them maybe saw it coming but as a writer I can imagine how they must have felt. All the effort you put into writing a character gets dismissed and ignored because the character appeals to the (trashy) community almost solely sexually or as meme material.
As for Gwyndolin I always really liked the character as they remind me of Loki with the illusions and trickery, I always had a bit of a hard time understanding their gender, even as a trans woman myself, and everything about their gender being so ambiguous makes me think of them as either non-binary or gender fluid, but I really liked the idea you presented as them being intersex, gave me a lot to think about the character
He's a guy forced to crosdress because gwyn had weird beliefs
(note i havent watched the full video) but personally i get more trans masc vibes, raised as a woman because of their conection to the moon, it feels like he himself swaped to "dark sun" instead of dark moon to have less conection to the moon wich has a feminine connection, gwyndolin possibly being able to be themselves after the fall of Gwyn.
I have a friend that has a lot of mental health problem for fault of their family that they are still living with, they got forced to transition even if they didn't want to for some realigous belives of "if the kid was born this gender they would bring misfortune tot he family", they got forced to get bottom and top surgery. Im not gonna say anything else but everything bad that could happen to a person happened to them and I fell so impotent I cant do anything to help them get out of there.
How is your friend doing now?
@@grassblock7668 i haven't been able to talk with them, and they got away from my friend group after they met some guy. I just hope they are ok.
I love the Idea that Gwyndolin made their Statue Invisible in Anor Londo so no one would see them...
2:48 You forget about the first born, all the statues that has him are destroyed, even the ones when he was a child, in the bridge of the read dragon there is a bf with a statue of a woman wounding a child but the kid is missing, basically Gywn descarted all his kids that weren't useful or in point with his believes.
Edit: oh my god you already know, you are the fucking best :3
I heard a theory that Gwyndolin being very androgynous was symbolic of the first flame.
The nameless king and Gwynevere were born during the prime of the first flame and as a result they male and female stereotypes.
Gwyndolin being born later, presumably when the first flame started to wane, they were born very androgynous.
Short answer: being forced into a gender you don’t identify yourself is doesn’t make a person trans, imagine this: you are born, have magic that reflects the other gender, your dad, who is GOD pretty much, after having disgraced his firstborn and his last male heir has moonlight magic which was attributed to women, a shamed Gwyn raises Gwyndolin as a female to public eye, but Gwyndolin is male, when referenced by other family members (Yorshka) is always remembered as a male, what we can take out of this story is that to protect Gwyndolin from public shame in Anor Londo he made Gwyndolin fake out being a female, and I don’t know about y’all but that doesn’t sound trans, it sounds rather like an alteration of perception by the greater public while at heart Gwyndolin is male, Yorshka always referred to Gwyndolin as her brother so yeah
Did you watch the video? Asking because this comment misses the biggest point / guess / headcannon that Oakwyrm discussed.
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 yes I did, I just don’t see a point that doesn’t look delusional to say that Gwyndolin feels like he is trapped in a body of a gender that is not his, he is male, confirmed by himself, that’s the point, you don’t need any more, just because Gwyn forced him to grow as a woman it doesn’t make him trans, rather he was abused, nothing else
@@_____Shadow_____ 11:36 - 12:15
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 bruh his sister refers to him as a male even after he died, I already explained this shit
spoilers:
Radagon is Marika
I look at it like this gwyn a bad father who only cared about his age of fire and nothing more nothing else
Gwyndolin is Gwyndolin they gave me thr dark moon blade merical so my paladin will protect and serve
I also love even tho their father hated them they loved him still and wanted to be loved back
As someone writing their dissertation and using them as a case study, this came at the perfect time
I always wondered about this, I knew a lot of people interpret them as trans, and I can see where they're coming from, but at the same time we never see any kind of confirmation as to wich gender Gwyndoin personally identifies, so we can't be sure what they feel about this whole situation. Personally, I prefer to think Gwyndolin identified as female, because if she did, then that grants her some agency over how she presented herself, if Gwyndolin identified as male but still presented female, even in their last moments, just to appease an abusive parent who was already dead, that would be simply too tragic. And I think she deserves better than that.
Giving Gwyndolin agency completely negates the entire purpose of their story though all because you personally would feel it more comfortable. They were forced into the position they lived in, and while they didn’t have any agency eventually (in Dark Souls 3) we know he probably came to be more secure as we see him take on a more masculine appearance and discard the Ring of Reversal. Dark Souls isn’t a happy series, there aren’t too many good endings for the characters. Tragedy is very important to the bedrock of the Souls franchise. Gwyndolin had, for a time, a good ending after Dark Souls 1. But that would never last either with their sickness and eventually consumption by Aldrich.
If you're wondering why people hate the trans community, it's not because of some kind of cosmic hazard or some fascist ideology in place etc.
It's because of videos like this.
This video ends on a depressing, but important note: the Dark Souls fandom *is* still toxic, in so many different ways and part of that toxicity is how hostile the community is to any form of criticism. James Stephenie Sterling has an excellent video examining this issue from a different angle (they tend to cover the video games industry more than video games themselves).
I think if we love a piece of media, it's our duty to examine it (and the community around it) for problematic elements. Thanks for being a part of making the Dark Souls community less toxic.
Me who knows nothing about dark souls and does NOT care about it one bit: Interesting
The first son was banished after Gwyn left for the kiln, so its unlikely he was exiled by Gwyn. You would also find the sunlight blade, his ring, and flowers near the tomb, so I believe they had a relatively good relationship.
The half-dragon crossbreeds are feared and hated because they are the strongest beings, relating to racism. Gwyndolin is mistreated because he possesses moonlight powers, which relates to sexism. So I find the correlation for Yorshka and Gwyndolin incompatible. The giants on the other hand receives mistreatment, they were slaves to humans, even Gough and Yhorm held no respect in the stories.
Sorry for being that "erm actually reddit" guy.
In my opinion, Gwyndolin is a well written character filled with tragedy and misfortune, despite this, he stood firm in his role as a god/goddess unlike the rest till the very end; a strong characteristic I love and why Gwyndolin is one of my favorite characters. The video did however serve its purpose in highlighting the mistreatment of the gendered community, thank you for that.
Great video. I really appreciate it
You were being extremely disingenuous with your criticism of the community, and factually you left out pieces of lore that contradict what you’re saying. I really don’t like this video and I kinda feel like you marred something I love because of your own issues. Came off really immature and anti academic. I don’t think you actually care about anything but your own beliefs and you’re super close minded.
You sure you aren’t talking about yourself?
Are the creators really misgendering their character if said character wasn't created to be trans? Gwyndolin was designed after that Japanese tradition, and their trans coding is unintentional. That's all fine and well and they are a beloved trans icon, but saying the creators are misgendering them feels off. I hope I don't come across as transphobic
I interpret Gwyndolyn as a man forced into a female role because they had an affinity for the moon many say to be a symbol of femininity. Many descriptions say Gwyndolyn is male and use he/him pronouns.
Its really confusing and my own headcanon is that they are non binary using both male and female aspects of gender.
0:24 "I am not sorry"
I paused the video to post this comment because these four words effectively capture why I love your content so much
Great vid. I like the intersex interpretation. I personally dont think Gwyndolin would ultimately identify as female. Though they were not AFAB, their story is one of a transmasc/non-binary person who was assigned female at birth, due to Gwyn, and then later presenting as He/him by the time of Ds3, after being freed from their father’s control. Ds3 does not refer to Gwyndolin as a cis man, but more likely as a trans man.
One criticism of the video is I dont think we should jump to the conclusion that the creators are transphobic, based just on the greater community reception and culture of the time. Theres a good-faith trans story buried somewhere in the mystery.
we very much KNOW Gwyndolin didn’t identify as a woman during DS3, particularly because their discarding of the Ring of Reversal and them raising Yorshka who refers to him as brother during a time where Gwyndolin had all the power possible in Anor Londo. This is just another case of abuse done by a royal family.
@@arlaux1099 I'm new to this area of the lore; did Gwyndolin actually discard the ring as a sign of rejecting this forced identity (dialogue, item description), or does one just find the ring separate from his boss battle- and then presume he discarded the female identity?
I've never played the soulsborne games, but they're one of my brother's favorite series so I've dipped into the lore before bc of Gwyndolin being so clearly trans coded. In my limited knowledge of their lore, I had compared them somewhat to Chihiro from the first danganronpa, a cis boy presenting as a girl do to outside influences, which I could easily identify with as a transmasc teen still learning about themself and looking for anything akin to representation in the 2010s (in the sense that if they'd been written with being trans in mind, they would've undoubtedly been trans men with minor to no changes to their backstory).
So as I've grown older and learned more about the vast spectrum of gender identities, this video was great to be able to circle back and still be able to see myself in Gwyndolin now that I'm an adult that has a much better grasp on my own identity. I'm genderqueer, if I was to use a label, with a strong lean towards presenting masc, and it's taken work for me to understand how liking "feminine" things doesn't take away from that; so if I still view Gwyndolin as identifying as masc, then them presenting feminine can give comfort for those few times I just really want to wear a dress. Your explanation of Gwyndolin's story with the theory of them being intersex even amplified this as someone with PCOS, the reversal ring being something I can compare to the hormone therapy I was coerced into taking as a child (info: I was told I would undoubtedly develop cancer if I didn't).
But I don't think I'd headcanon them as I once did, they're so much more than just the "accidentally transmasc coded cis boy" I thought them as. I personally wouldn't give them a label bc of projecting myself on them, and I think everyone can do the same: project themselves. The writers somehow stumbled into unintentionally making a character that's easy to relate to for lots of lgbtq+ people no matter where on the spectrum they are, even when their creation was rooted in transphobic ideals.
On a side note: I am still confused on the writers part as to why Gwynevere was raised as a woman if she is connected to the sun. If moon = feminine, that implies sun = masculine, but this only matters when it comes to Gwyndolin as it's one of the stated reasons for them being raised as a woman?? Unless I'm wrong in the sun having a gender association, shouldn't Gwynevere have been raised as a man?
Dunno if you realize Gwyn forced Gwyndolin to grow as a female while he was always male, and after Gwyn linked the fire, well let’s say he actually went to be male again while leading the Dark Moon knights, he went out to become dark sun Gwyndolin, which means he is a male who suffered from parental abuse from the mess that was Gwyn
I honestly love the idea of Gwyndolin as a feminine presenting intersex person, honestly we need more intersex characters and I think it fits her story. But also thank you for calling out the fandom but also the writers themselves falling into that tired stereotype of trans people being deceptive. You not shying away from criticizing things being toxic or harmful is a reason I love your channel so much. This was a great watch, thank you.
2 seconds in, and the pronoun police "misgender" the character, something they would never let you do. He's a dude, the treatment his parents put him through was abuse.
Am I the only one who's struggled to follow this video because there was too many Gwen names?
He was forced to crossdress because gwyn had issues
Very interesting, thank you for making this video.
I usually go for nonbinary, feels like the most practical. I have plenty of queer headcanons for Dark Souls anyway.
I see either Elly Jackson or Robyn Holdaway (Layla from Sex Education) for a live-action counterpart.
Gwyndolin is not female. He was born a boy, he had moon magic so Gwyn thinks, "Huh, that's pretty gay." Decides to instead raise him as a girl because moon magic. Gwyndolin didn't choose to be a girl or trans or whatever. But he accepted and embraced his femininity despite being a boy because it fits with the cultural symbology of the moon. If anything he's just a cross dresser, he like feminine things. Unlike the west which demonized feminine men, the east did not and is culturally acceptable. In Japan it's more popular than ever, but if you ever ask these guys in maid outfits if they're gay or trans, they're going to say no.
Calling the creators tranphobic for inserting something about their culture into their game is stupid. You're not looking through their perspective, you're observing through your western progressive lenses. Yes it's designed with a medieval western ascetic, but it also has katanas.
Also you're on the internet, people playing online video games are going to use the gamer words. Not everything will always nor should always bend to your beliefs.
Saying the east did not demonize feminine men is utterly ignorant on the actual reality of Asian countries and it is clear you only consume Asian media, in fact in Japan the common consensus is that gay men and trans woman are the same thing, Japan is very patriarchal and does have strict gender roles and most media depicting transgressions on the gender binary are seen as disgusting, only in extreamly recent times and by recent I mean in the last 5 years or so did this start changing. Yes the idea of masculinity and homosexual relations was loose in *premodern* Japan however culture changes especially due to such drastic things such as the heavy industrialization and cross cultural exchange present,
@@pleromaprism7581 You're right about one thing, I do consume asian media which I understand is not the best way to get to know them. Mostly what I know relates to China and Taiwan, amalgamated from my own interests sparked by channels like The Cheng Dynasty, Off The Great Wall, and China Uncensored. But for Japan, strictly anime and two friends I met years ago from Guam(dad is Japanese) and Japan. I've never went to the east myself, I'm sure most people haven't, and you don't need to (edit) to grasp their culture. Japan is not so 'very patriarchal', they're as patriarchal as the US was in the 90s. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Thailand, now that's 'very patriarchal'. Japan's gender roles aren't strict, they're casual. Japan's trans community is virtually nonexistent and they only equate it to homosexuality because the idea of being a different gender in the wrong body isn't a thing there. They don't push tomboys and femboys into the progressive notion of being transgender, they don't push them to adopt a mental illness as their identity. They understand that some people are more masculine than others and some are more feminine.
One of my points in my previous comment was that the east was far more accepting of feminine men than the west, expecially in Japan.
@@mrreaper8826 that doesn't stop there from being clear homophobia and transphobia in Japan however, so reading there being homophobia and transphobia in Japan is valid as it is the cultural consensus
@@pleromaprism7581 Hidetaka Miyazaki is not homophobic or transphobic just because he didn't make Gwyndolin gay or trans. It just shows the entitlement, childishness, and western centrist bubble of ignorance of the people who make this argument.
If you're argument is that there are people who don't like gays in Japan then my response is, 'No, really? I would have never guessed!' There are those people everywhere.
I am deeply imbeded and in love with the Souls community, there is a reason these games make up community as they are, and it has to do with the difficulty. The difficulty itself tends to help keep the childish, impatient and stupid people out. That's not going to change, you're not going to ruin this franchise like you did with the others, From Software knows their target audience, and it's not you people. Gwyndolin was not made to pander to you, they did it to enrich the lore.
@@mrreaper8826 you literally miss the point and misunderstand Japanese culture as I've been saying, the way gwyndolins gender is treated is a transphobic trope that started in Japan, transphobia and homophobia are different in Japan and gwyndolin is a symptom of it it isn't part of me applying western ideals, I literally have several friends taking Japanese culture studies classes for their major and a big part of that is not treating Japan as some completely foriegn land and not treating it with exoticism, there are clear cultural differences yes but this is 100% a facet of Japanese branded transphobia
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and the topics there within, but I have a semi related question, where do the snakes start?
19:37 OK BUT WHEN YOU SAID THAT I HAD TO SCREAM INTO THE VOID, Cuz Gwyndolin is my favorite waifu independent of gender. *N°1 BEST WAIFU IN ALL VIDEOGAMES.* (Even if I do think Gwyndolin is a male who suffered the abuse of a father scared to lose power, by obligating Gwyndolin to present as female and keeping him in secrecy, all he needed to do to keep his kingdom to himself and only himself was to exile his first born, WHICH HE DID! So yeah, Gwyndolin is simply on the feminine side cuz that's how he was raised in my opinion, and honest to god? WHY WOULDN'T HE WEAR A DRESS? 1. He's a god so fuck any hollow not aligned with his covenant and 2. They're comfy af, why would he wear armor like the undead outside if he's completely safe behind his secret wall and his fog wall???)
This shit is sad.
Another good video on Souls :) An interesting part about Gwyndolin is he was originally canonically a Woman outright, as in no guesswork involved. But at that time, he was a priestess rather than who he is today. Just an explanation on why his model really has a feminine body.
About Yorshka, she's (probably) not really a daughter of Gwyn at all, she's most likely a daughter of Priscilla and was found by Gwyndolin inside of the painting. This is most apparent that she says herself her name was given to her. Plus "brother" and "sister" are religious names. I know you mentioned most of this, though. This is just to explain most likely this doesn't mean anything about Gwyndolin. The reason he has snakes is due to the feminine symbolism of them and such, iirc they're not really supposed to be attached to his legs rather they just raise him up.
Also another fun fact is that despite the lack of pronouns in Japanese, what Gwyndolin is referred to as(I'm sorry as I don't have the Japanese rn) a very archaic neutral "pronoun" always. And following the Japanese in these games is best always since it's how you really get how some things are supposed to be interpreted. (Plus so much lore has been lost due to the common poor translations.)
Just wanted to share some insight, great video again. :D
I remember when you posted the original video and I shared my theories on Gwyndolyn being intersex (thank you again for the comment), and honestly had a little moment of euphoria when you brought up them potentially being intersex. Not claiming credits ofcourse, fuck no, but it's really nice to see someone agreeing with the theories I've had. I'm still a bit torn between what pronouns to use, but I like the intersex representation, even if it's entirely accidental on the creators behalf. Over all, really happy to hear you talk a bit more about Gwyndolin, and I really enjoyed your thoughts on the character.
There are a few arguments I don't agree with. To start the entire souls series is supposed to be up for interpretation so I think that it's dishonest to label From Software and the entire souls community as transphobic. I interpreted the story as Gwyn protecting his daughter rather than shaming her. If Gwyn truly hated her he would have put her in the painted world with Priscilla. And that doesn't even touch on the lack of agency you gave Gwyndolin. Maybe she did stay because that's what was ingrained into her. But I interpreted it as her protecting and defending her kingdom. What proof do we have of this? She maintains her illusions to give her kingdom peace of mind and not only that but long after Gwyn is killed she still remains in Anor Londo. She didn't flee like Gwynevere did. She stayed and tried to defend the ruins of her kingdom from a devouring monster. Why would she stay after hundreds if not thousands of years for a kingdom she supposedly was oppressed by? No one could stop her from leaving even if they wanted to. Gwynevere left and so did Farram (The nameless king. Yes his name is Farram, the god of war) Dark Souls is a story of overcoming challenges and adversity. It's a story of perseverance. Which I'm surprised you don't relate to given your position. And lets not forget if there was no transgender representation someone would likely complain about that too.
And for the record I would totally sleep with Gwyndolin. She's a strong independent and brave woman and I have no shame in saying I would enjoy every second of her snuggling me with her snake tentacles. Because snakes are fucking cool. And yes I do think femboys are hot. Maybe I am fetishizing them what are you going to do kink shame me?
In short I think you're looking too deeply into this. But that's your choice and if that's how you interpret the lore more power to you. That's the power From Soft gives us as players in their games. The power to come up with our own theories, ideas and opinions. And i fucking love them for it
huh!. gods of anor londo do not discriminate
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neighter does aldrich
In the words of Dante: "What the hell is this?"
A video?
Yeah this attitude that "trap" is an acceptable way of referring to trans or effeminate male characters really needs to die - in one game that I play after the introduction of an somewhat effeminate male playable character was introduced the use of this slur by the players got so bad that developers had to set it up so that anyone using the character's name and the slur together in any form would be automatically kicked from the chat
I felt like maybe Gwyndolyn is intersex. I wish there was more intersex representation, though some people act immaturely about it.
Finding out that the Japanese text is careful to refer to Gwyndolin with gender-neutral pronouns reminds me of the way people close to me refused to acknowledge me as a woman in the early stages of my transition. To be consumed by a monster that was once a man, the way Gwyndolin was devoured by Aldrich, feels like an allegory for dysphoria invading a transwoman's mind, finally crushing their hope of living as they truly are. I don't know Gwyndolin's gender for sure, but I do know that I see part of myself in this story, and for that I am grateful.
Japanese doesn't have he or she though ignorant
Happened upon this video when I was looking for gendered analysis of ds1 lol. I think it would be fascinating to break down the many ways in which the souls series facilitates a community that is extremely hateful and non inclusive. In my experience, there are plethora of ways in which the souls community harbors hateful rhetoric towards marginalized groups. However, the degree of which this exists varies drastically depending on the subsection of the souls community. For example, in the pvp community it is rammmmmmpppppannnt, but I’ve found that the lore hunting community tends to fairly inclusive. Anyway, good vid ❤
I mean, kinda is a dealbreaker since those aren't the pronouns used. I would've used they/them instead. Also, id say he is transmasc femboy.
Can you do a review of the Avatar movie (2009)? It's one of my favourite movies since I was a child and as the main character is in a wheelchair, I'd love to see you do a review. I really love all your video's!
Warning: the videos linked below are critical of James Cameron's Avatar (the original, these videos are both from May 2020). So if you want to keep liking the film, maybe don't watch these videos -- and maybe don't read this reply, either.
You still with me? Okay, here goes:
Are you quite sure you want to hear a wheelchair user's opinions about the Blue Natives film? Not even all abled people are fans of that movie, to put it mildly, and as an underarm crutches user with PTSD I deeply detest the foundational premise of the film. It was visually beautiful to watch, but that was IMO its only redeeming quality.
The pretty visuals cannot hide that the protagonist, a wheelchair user with fairly obvious PTSD, is so desperate to not be in a wheelchair anymore that he can be tricked / blackmailed into a dangerous experimental scheme in outer space. And the plot is... shall we say unoriginal and problematic, to hopefully avoid that this reply gets tossed into TH-cam's trash bin.
I don't think Oakwyrm would necessarily be as caustic about the film as The Critical Drinker was in May 2020
th-cam.com/video/xNeEGBDTnig/w-d-xo.html
but I would not be surprised if Oakwyrm's take were a bit like Alteori's, which video dropped one day before TCD's did
th-cam.com/video/qvSVZxnaDUk/w-d-xo.html
TL;DR: James Cameron's Avatar (2009) is not a movie. It's a pretty but ridiculously bloated technology demonstration with an ableist and colonialist, paper-thin, trope-ridden "plot", mostly cardboard cut-out characters and clunky dialogue, with a couple of outstanding actors managing to make some of their lines work.
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 Thank you for your response. I did already found some information about James Cameron's anti-indigenous views and some things I did already dislike about the plot but the movie still has some important memories to me and I do like the visual beauty a lot. And I am a part-time wheelchair user as well (only since a couple of months) which also made me question more about the plot already but as I don't have the experience of being in one for a long time, I was interested in someone else's view on it. Thank you.
No
I think Gwyndolin is most likely Nonbinary.
Becasue I would consider "snake legs" to be nonbinary presentation ^-^
This is the cringiest description and video idea and imagery I've seen this whole year.
You do know you’re only proving the videos point right? It’s amazing how people like you get played so easily.
Please do a video on Oryx from Destiny the Taken King, a transmasc badass who can possess whole armies and make them do his dark bidding. Always loved the character
I feel so bad for Gwendolyn they are one of my favorite bosses I didn't like them at first but the more I learn the more I love also I'm bi Not Trans but still I feel bad for Trans peps and I do think Gwendolyn the dark sun is vary cute❤
Nope. He’s actually a She. And She is actually an It. It is quite confusing…😕
Thank you so much for mentioning the disrespect towards Gwyndolin's gender that it seems their creators had. One thing I couldn't get out of my head during my second playthrough when I first began to piece together her story was how much her role in the plot frames them as deceptive.
As the single and only gender nonconforming character in the game, her entire role in the story is to trick you into linking the first flame and fulfilling the wishes of the mad king by creating an illusion of a conventionally attractive woman in revealing clothes who is nice to you in order to manipulate you, and when you meet them their legs are made of snakes and with the amount of christian imagery in these games I hardly think that's a coincidence. All this is especially considering like you said, the "trap" centred transphobia of the 2010's when she was written.
Also I absolutely love your interpretation of the character and am absolutely incorporating it into my own personal picture of her and the story of Dark Souls as a whole. Thank you for making this video ^v^
ew
So in the part of being intersex, I remember when I was a 12 year old that didnt know much bout stuff, one time we were like an entirely weak in a biology lesson aboun gender and chromosomes, the text book had a small part about intersex ppl but instead of having that term is said the other that start with H and I don't know how to spell, the thing is that my asshole teacher said something about family in x country that all their members were born like that and that when they turn 18 they needed to choose one fo two genders and get the surgeries, the thing is I raised my hand and ask my teacher why to they need to "chose or fix" them if they were born that way, why would we need to change that? I also used the argument if god made them that way why would they need to choose? (it was a chatolic chirstian school) the thing is that me not having a grasp of really anything, being really smol would think that was not ok to first someone in something they arent and the teacher got really pissed and I didnt get why at that moment, I kinda do now, is funny how I was just making a question and she would take it like that so personal, school used to be like that always, I questioned something and the teacher always thought I was trying to mess with them.
If the gender you grew up being treated as isnyoir gender, are you really transgender?
Fun fact: calling Gwyndolin a trap is not a slur
I never interacted with dark souls material outside of the occasional video that seems interesting so I never knew of this topic until this video
Æ
off the topic but, ARE THOSE POLISH SUBTITLES?????
oh wait nvm, the source is a polish channel
There is a little bias in this video. it felt a little that way in some parts, while it is super informative and I agree with a lot of it, it as many other videos like this one does falls into the aggressively pointing fingers and generalizing communities and accusing everyone within them of something. It’s sad to see, and without that, I’d would have enjoyed the video more and support it, however, the comment “The dark souls community is still toxic” and the comment about Miyazaki or “the characters creators” not knowing what they are writing about when the person here explicitly says “while they probably didn’t intend for this character to be intersex or trans” and immediately accuses them of being trans phobic or just being susceptible to trans phobia in their culture which is valid but only if it was their intention. This video could have been better if they took out the parts where they generalized and assumed parts that cannot be confirmed, like the parts about the trap jokes before meeting Gwendolin in game is completely fair and justified. But causing an entire community and even the creators of that game is just being aggressive for no reason other than dislike bias. This video is informative and important, but it is also susceptible for criticism.
I kind of saw them as more of a trans guy. One who was forced to dress more fem and stuff like that. But your is really good tho.
No.
Bro it’s a game , I doubt they go that fuc**** far lol 😂
i not only believe gwyndolin to be trans, but i also fully believe miquella from elden ring to be trans, which there is quite a bit of proof for
Grooming defender
@@isauldron4337 not in the slightest how that works
Pd gwyndolin is a Guy it's common sense
@@isauldron4337 sorry, still wrong
Turns out Miquella wasn't trans at all, and was a creepy femboy that forced people against their will to love him, so oopsie woopsie.
Please just shut up about trying to claim characters from media who clearly have alterior motives are 'trans', you're doing more harm than good to those of us who just want to live quietly.
So SAD people
Certainly, an amazing trap ahead.
I feel like this video completely ignores less binary identities. I always read them as non-binary and additionally potentially intersex. Amab and having been raised like a girl due to magical mumbojumbo that could easily be read as an intersex thing and then later self-actualizing as someone outside of the gender binary. No matter his status as intersex or not he can still be non-binary and use he/him pronouns.
Either way, i feel like we can all pretty easily agree that he's at least not cis.
Defenetly miyazakis way of writing didnt help mutch this time for other subjects it's vage narrative may work but for Gwyndolin it has done the oposite
they/themdolin