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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Consider Supporting MindShift - / mindshiftskeptic
Today's episode is a response video to Cliffe Knechtle. In this short, Cliff uses order, design, meaning, and love as "Overwhelming Evidence" for Christ.
Original Short From @GeorgeJanko - • George Janko & Cliffe ...
Full Episode with @givemeananswer • Cliffe Knechtle - Answ...
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Other Resources For You:
- Freedom From Religion Org - ffrf.org
- Recovering From Religion - www.recoveringfromreligion.org
- Dare To Doubt - www.daretodoubt.org/resources
- Reddit - / resources
- Secular Student Alliance - secularstudents.org
-The Humanist Society - thehumanistsociety.org
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:09 Cliffe's Video
2:07 Belief Based On Feelings
3:32 Arguments For A God Don't Equal Arguments For Your God
5:57 Reason 1 From Cliffe - Order/Design
6:26 Reason 2 From Cliffe - Meaning
9:00 Reason 3 From Cliffe - Love
11:09 It Is A Luxury To Question
12:38 Making The Gap Filler Your Personal God
14:09 Final Thoughts
15:39 Patron Thanks
#proovechristianity #godmustexist #badargumentsforgod #atheism #mindshift #atheist #exchristian - บันเทิง
Wow. That was a refreshing blast of beautifully expressed rational and critical thought. I dare say I'll be back for more of that.
This comment from you might just be the highlight of my small TH-cam journey thus far. Thanks for coming by! In my deconversion video, i prompt your noah’s ark video as the very first thing that started my snowball out of religion. This channel is simply me doing my part to pay it forward. So again, thank you!
You know you are doing something right when your viewers wake up in the morning and think, 'Hey, I wonder if MindShift has posted his new video yet.' Thanks for being there in my journey of deconstruction.
YUP! That’s me
I caught this guy lying to me. He claims that Polaris our North Star moves across the sky and claimed to have evidence. Well he never showed me anything and disappeared. This guy is a absolute fraud
@@20july1944 perfect, I do the same
@@20july1944 Except you don't argue, you just make dumb assertions that you have demonstrated time and time again that you are completely unable to verify as true.
Nothing you have to say is remotely interesting, hasn't been said many times before or has any relationship with objective truth.
We 'still' have no interest in your unverified opinions.
Which part of this are you so spectacularly failing to understand?
Do you realize that you are the laughing stock of this channel?
@@20july1944Forget arguing, provide verifiable evidence of this God or admit it's just a shell game.
*Cliffe:* “What’s the evidence for Christianity being true you ask? Well a long time ago I started wondering about this (I even considered athiesm!) and then I looked at all the evidence and found out that Christianity was true. Does that answer your question?”
*People with ears to hear:* 🤦♂️
I did the opposite
lol, great summation!
No, that doe not answer the question. You just made a claim that you “looked at all the evidence” and you found it convincing. That is not the same as presenting your evidence, and it’s not the same as debating the credibility of that evidence with other people.
That’s what scientists do, which is why they get answers that actually work.
@@richardd8832 Yeah that’s the entire point of the comment.
@@richardd8832 But there is no evidence. If there was, there would be no question.
Thank you for your great summary at the end. Seriously, nothing Cliffe said is unique to Jesus. And believing in Jesus isn’t just believing in design, meaning and love. You’ll also have to believe in Nephilims, sorcerers, demonic possessions, a genocidal God, etc.
Exactly! lots of baggage for a gap filler!
Oh and Genie's/Djinn too if some of the stories about King Solomon are true
I think so many people use religion to find meaning in their life, but most of what we want is to belong (we are social animals) and to survive and thrive. Love how you talked about that
So are you an atheist?
thanks, Rebecca!
That doesn't answer the Q. If we are social animals, then matter is just that, matter. It's not good or bad. Whether you're a saint or the worst person? It doesn't really matter.
@@computationaltheist7267 "If we are social animals..."
not an if. We are animals. And we are social.
"Whether you're a saint or the worst person? It doesn't really matter"
it does. Social animals around you won't really like you, to say the least, if you are the worst person. It totally matters to everybody envolved.
Be bad / good enough, and you can remove people from the gene pool. You can also be removed from the gene pool. Or you can help people stay in the gene pool. In a lot of these high level cases, whether you are bad or good matters not only to those around you, but also to people not even born yet.
People also want to be told what to do, how to live and what to think because it's difficult to figure it out themselves. About 60% of people have never learned to think for themselves.
Brandon you are the diamond of critical thinking. I don't even need to be convinced with being skeptical since a child but damn I'm sure glad someone like you are here for the ones that do. Aways awesome work 👏
Thank you, that is really lovely to hear!
I never get tired of hearing "there's just GOT to be more than just chemicals and physics". It sounds to me just like a three-year-old saying "I don't wanna....." and tells me that the person is about to talk about their comforting fantasies.
If it's "just" chemicals and physics, why can't we duplicate it with our intellect and purpose?
A laptop is more than the materials it's made of.
We can't make hurricanes either, therefore Poseidon right? And what else is a laptop made of besides the materials is made of?
@@dougt7580 That's a question of scale.
Living organisms should be make-able in the lab, and they're not.
@@dougt7580 A laptop is made if the intelligent design and the raw materials.
I think an anthropomorphic sky daddy is ridiculous, but I also think that this life and this universe isn't all there is, I believe there's something higher above us even if it's not Jesus or Yahweh
Just reading the bible was enough for me to question the truth it claims. The more I read it the less I believed it.
Same, I really needed something at 16.. Looked for that in the bible,, and was horrified.
"The best cure for Christianity is reading the bible." -Mark Twain
Me too. I left Christianity after I read the entire Bible instead of reading only verses selected by other Christians at church.
I tell people that it is an evil book!
That's because you were never born again, born of the Spirit (Holy Spirit). One must be born-again in order to know God/Jesus Christ.
The lack of social awareness for Cliffe. This guy is a walking billboard for atheism.
✌️😁👍 My friend God loves you neighbor! Please look to God and the holy bible it's God's written words. I know the holy bible is God's written word because I felt it's power when I put my hand on one for the first time after praying and now I live by the power of the Holy Spirit to battle temptation and lead others to Jesus and His Holy Bible! Please choose Jesus 🙏✝️🛐🫡
@@JESUSGreatrThan_all_LsThnJESUS if god loves me, why are you telling me that and not him? How do you know you felt it's power? What did you feel exactly? Can you describe it for me?
And Muslims know the Quran is true for the same reason, and Hindus know their book is right, and Sikhs, and Mormons, and JWs, and Pagans, and so forth. Almost like an emotional reaction isn't a good reason to believe something is true.
I know Harry Potter is God's word because I felt the power of the Philosopher's Stone when I laid my hand on the book. Now I can battle lord Voldemort and his Death Eaters and stop them from killing muggles. Choose Dumbledore, please!@@JESUSGreatrThan_all_LsThnJESUS
@@JESUSGreatrThan_all_LsThnJESUS It's misleading to say that God loves the denizens of this channel -- except for a few Christians, the posters here are mockers, not just atheists.
Of course Jesus would happily accept their surrender, but they won't offer it.
@@pavld335
God tells us He loves us through preaching from others such as someone did to me when I was 17. I can't really describe the power but it felt like a very weak electrical current going through my hand and I couldn't open the bible until after I prayed to God to allow me to read it.
While I was so religiously delusional with mental illnesses, I experienced what living hell I have been in. I thank my father and atheists' channels for showing me the ways to deconstruct to feel free. Thanks for these stuff.
I'm happy you're free of the mind prison of religious delusion.
so nice to have my brain back
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 Of course, faith is a dangerous and a manipulative tool.
@@TheMahayanist Thank you!
Ten Thousand Thumbs Up
Yes. This is the wake-up call so many need. Not to bash Christians who need a second coming, but to study fact over Man’s need to create fiction and myth. I went back to being a Stoic and I take the world as it comes to me. I don’t feel anymore left out than I did reading about myself as the perpetual sinner. Ugh. Thank you for meaningful content.
I'm a Christian who doesn't need a second coming. I assume I'll die long before that, so I'll be judged and rewarded regardless of a second coming IF God exists and Christianity is true.
Even if I discovered God will simply let the universe go to heat death, it doesn't change anything for you or me.
Christianity, is heavily influenced by stoic thought, you guys might agree on a lot :-)
@@20july1944 How did you come to believe that Jesus is God?
@@vincentasks I have to ask how much you know about the beginning of Christianity before I answer that.
Are you a former Christian? Do you know the New Testament narrative, even if you don't believe it?
@@20july1944 Actually my question was to you. It doesn’t always have to be about me. This wasn’t a challenge question. Since you stated that you are a Christian, then I realize that you believe Jesus is God. What’s your testimony?
I’ve seen too many videos showing ANIMALS displaying love, loyalty and care. How many times have dogs protected a little one or cuddled up to someone who’s having a bad day? How many times have cats showed they cared about their person? Elephants, cetaceans and primates are highly intelligent, with complex social interactions.
Even birds. Watch videos of ravens and parrots. You’re right, if there’s one thing technology and TH-cam in particular is great for is to realize how similar we are in behavior and yes, feelings, to other animals.
There are millions of stories and plenty of videos that show that ANIMALS are capable of compassion and love. Pet owners swear by their animal's love and devotion.
A scarier thought is the idea that ANIMALS do not feel pain! Of course they do, but some folks try to claim that they do not.
@@pansepot1490 Yes! Corvids are highly intelligent birds - ravens and crows are known to bring gifts to those showing them kindness
@@clydesight I think of Hachiko, the Akita who came to the train station each day even after his owner died. I have a good friend who has a Miniature Schnauzer and a Yorkie-Chihuahua; I’ve seen how rapturously they greet him each time he comes in his house
Animals DEFINITELY feel pain and hurt; it is a crime and an abomination to abuse and mistreat them. Humans are meant to love and care for animals - true, not everyone does, but most people don’t like seeing an animal mistreated
yes nature!
Your ability to articulate ideas is amazing. Wish I were better at it.
Appreciate that. I have spent a lot of time practicing and refining and reading on the topics etc. Still trying to learn more each day, but no one is perfect. Just look for incremental improvement!
Always puts a smile on my face when I see you've dropped a new video. Keep up the good work! Life ain't easy, no God to save us. All we have is each other. We really need to learn to treat each other better.
Preach! and thank you so much.
As a non native speaker I appreciate your clear thoughts expressed in clear language. What a blessing ;)
So glad to hear that. Thank you for watching
The question I like to ask is "Could these thing exist without God?" And the answer is always yes.
Then why can't scientists duplicate living things? What's stopping us?
@@20july1944Time.
It does indeed look as if God is _literally_ useless.
@@20july1944 They are working on it, with some limited success. It's not impossible, just difficult.
@@dasbus9834 Do you know any science? I assume you're a Kraut from your name, as I am, and I expect Krauts to know science.
Do you?
It really means a lot that you take time out of your day away from your family and loved ones and create these videos for a bunch of strangers who need encouragement❤ so sorry to hear you were laid off this past year. Both of my parents were laid off too in the last few years after 17 and 26 years at the same company. I hope you and your loved ones are thriving and I hope the career you’ve chosen not only makes you more money than you need but is also fulfilling in the other ways that matter.
"create these videos for a bunch of strangers who need encouragement"
Does denying God encourage you in what way?
Thank you for that. I am back to being employed and even with the channel, get so much good family time. I only film when they are away. Thanks for this!
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 It encourages me to think for myself and I value that.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 for those of us who have escaped dogma, it's encouraging to hear someone critically analyze the concepts we once believed in, putting them in a more rational context for people who are in the process of disentangling themselves from bad ideas, and potentially helping people figure out how to explain these types of ideas to friends and family who are still trapped in belief.
@@yzettasmith4194
"It encourages me to think for myself and I value that."
Looks like you absorb ideas like a sponge from this channel, how is it thinking yourself?
I personally never struggled to "find a meaning". I love my family, our cats included. I dream about running an animal shelter. I work hard, and I enjoy it. I love almost every day of my life, despite the third damn depressive episode =D It amuses me that healthy people who don't have depression (or do they?) cannot find their meaning. Life is the meaning. Love is. Anything that makes you smile. One just has to be able to see.
I wish I would have had a dad and family like this when I grew up.
that is really kind. We create what we didn't have! Thats why I am here.
@@MindShift-Brandonyou are a wonderful dad. Brought me to tears listening to you talking about your child ❤
Thank you. I am beyond lucky. Two smart, kind, funny and generous kids. I have hit the jackpot
It’s very annoying when they equate creation to automatically the Christian god being responsible
It really is!
Wow Brandon! You’re up to 20k! Thanks for making these videos. They are awesome and really help me in the season I’m in as an atheist.
Glad to hear it and yes pretty darn exciting!
This is so awesome! Go Brandon! GO! I can't wait till you get a Million followers. It'll come! I have faith! (Heh heh)😁
20k already surprises me. 50k would be a dream and 100k would be more than i could ever ask for. A million is on a different planet ha.
Yeah! We all know itll blow up big because the content is so helpful and pertinent to the issues encountered by new denconverts
Oh Brandon, I think this is gold. Feelings, good ones, are what we love about Religion, the Fellowship hall, the Prayer Group, Bias Confirming Sermons, Singing how I am Worthless, but God loves me anyway and I'll be happier in Heaven than I ever could be on earth, etc, Shoo, Good Feelings feel Good! Spiritual Heroin that I don't want to get sober from. Now, the Bad Feeling, like I am going to Hell and burn forever, I push those down and keep coming back for the Good Stuff. Great vid.
Thank you!!
In naturalistic worldview love is a chemical reaction in your brain nothing else, if you love your family it's just chemistry you can deceive yourself by thinking that love is a real feeling but the reality is that love is a chemical reaction.
Absolutely spot on, even masterfully delivered. There is NOTHING to disagree with, and dare I say, it was inspirational.. Peace.
Too kind! Thanks though. Appreciate the support
Apologists always try to drag science down to the level of faith.
"You can't prove anything."
Yes, we could be living in a simulation. That TOTALLY makes your baseless beliefs just as valid as scientific truth. /sarc
I'm a Christian and I HOPE we're living in God's simulation
@@20july1944 Why? Eternity in heaven is going to enjoyable why? Plus, if there's no difference between the simulations whether or not a god is behind it, then living in the scenario will be the same either way, it's DYING in the scenario that would supposedly be different, but, no one is going to be able to actually know that until they die.
@@20july1944I hope not.
Science works.
@@vaiyt yes it does, learn some!
Believers rarely are led to belief by the "proofs" they claim. Belief comes from responding to an emotional story about love and forgiveness, more rarely from a fear of damnation. My own started with a childish fear of monsters combined with an advert for The Exorcist, and that fear drove me to the Bible and 30 years of ardent faith. All the "proofs" come later to help them fight against the constant reality checks demonstrating that god is imaginary. Nobody wants to admit to making a mistake in a huge life decision like converting. Nobody wants to lose their social circle and the love-bombing feelings of participating in church. Emotional reinforcement is rampant in all belief systems.
I would say that losing the good regard and support of a faith community is, sadly, what keeps people in hypocritical "go along to get along" situations.
My deconstruction came easy: I always saw religion as ridiculous. Even as a 5 year old when the babysitter made me write a letter to god to apologize for something. And as a 12 year old watching a catfight at the altar of a church between two women literally fighting over who was gonna snag the new young preacher. That was 40 years ago. These atheist vids are just daily affirmations for me. In case I lost my mind and decided to attend a church for some reason.
Ha love that. Just a dose to stave off the potential flu of religion
@@MindShift-Brandon
Inoculated, not indoctrinated. 😀
Thats so good lol. Might steal that
@@jacliveshere
George Carlin was my salvation. So I worship the sun. And Joe Pesci.
@@jacliveshere
"You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fvck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with." - George Carlin
Well, does Jesus exist? Who knows but every Christmas Day I take about five minutes to say Happy Birthday to Jesus anyway. One cannot have enough friends.
One thing that bugs me about these types of apologists is when they preface by saying that they can’t “prove” God, then go on to establish a standard of proof that’s beyond human capability: “I can’t prove that I’m not just a bad dream.”
This is almost always a dodge so they don’t have to establish any reliable, demonstrable standard for evidence:.. as if a claim that he IS just a bad dream should be accepted as evidence. As if rephrasing the claim as “He MUST be a bad dream because nobody has such poor epistemological standards” it adds more weight to the evidence.
“Love is the best part of the natural.” Love it!!!
thank you. I think it actually robs the beauty from it by trying to order it outside the natural.
I would like to be able to ask the Intelligent Designer why humans were given only two sets of teeth, why we were given wisdom teeth, why we have an appendix, why we were "designed' that we can choke to death on our food, why there are bugs that suck our blood and at the same time can inject diseases that can kill us or make us seriously ill.
Did you know that Elephants have six sets of teeth in their life and when the last set wares out the animal starves to death.
This is the leading cause of death amongst Elephants.
Great design!!!!
We're mammals, if I recall correctly, all mammals have two sets of teeth.
Don't all vertebrates have their windpipe and gullet connected?
@avatarmew
You don't remember correctly!!
Most mammals are either...
Diphyodont: 2 sets of teeth
Or
Monophyodont : 1 set of teeth
With a few exceptions, actually having multiple sets of teeth.
@@sulas548 Interesting. How many years before set number 6 wears out, in the life of the average elephant?
@@sos1691 Asian Elephants live to around 48 and African 60-70 they get their final set around 30.
On rare occasions they can get a seventh set.
I just last night found your channel. I drempt last night I was dying and couldn't sleep afterward.
I was deeply Christian until I studied the Bible in a Christian college. Then I just drifted away, never thinking about any of the indoctrination again, for 50 years or more.
Until I heard a few of your videos.
Thanks, I really had no idea.
Very thought provoking! This is certainly helpful for those continuing to want to study learn and draw our own conclusions.Thanks
My pleasure! Thanks for watching
Thanks for your blathering! this skeptic really does appreciate it, and one day I'll actually figure out what this patreon thing is and join you there. I've seen Cliffe in debate with Matt and others and he is an exemplar of the pre-suppositionist writ large.
I just saw he did a debate with Matt, I cannot wait to watch it! And appreciate your kind sentiment.
Watched your videos for a long time
You state and point out the very thoughts I've had for decades .Glad your are doing these videos. It helps so many people grasp the truth about how destructive religious dogma is to people's ability to use critical thinking. Keep up your very good and needed videos.
Many thanks! Will do
God + Religion
Man, i can't even pause the video. I've only watched about 4 of your videos and I've already saved 2 of them in the "best" section.
Thats so kind! Thanks for being here. Glad to have you join the family.
Brandon`s critical thinking skills continue to amaze me every video, well done!
Thank you, sir!
You pretty much encapsulated my thoughts again. TY for your excellent videos. I'm going to replay 😃
Thanks, April!
Well thought out. Well reasoned. Keep up the good work.
Will do! thanks so much.
According to the general consensus of scholarship *(even critical Christian scholars),* YHWH was originally incorporated into the Canaanite pantheon as a son of the Canaanite high god El before inheriting the top spot in the pantheon and El's wife Athirat (Asherah) before religious reforms "divorced" them. El's pantheon in Ugarit is called the *Elohim,* literally the plural of El. Interestingly, the Biblical god is also referred to numerous times as Elohim. If you want to see if El is fictional, just read his mythology in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts.
"When El was young, he came across two beautiful Goddesses washing their clothes in the Sea. They were Athirat (Asherah) and the Goddess Rahmaya, and, after buttering them up by cooking a meal for them, he asked them to choose between being his daughters or wives. They choose the latter and became the mothers of the Gods Shachar "Dawn" and Shalim "Dusk"."
*"First, a god named El predates the arrival of the Israelites into Syria-Palestine.* Biblical usage shows El was not just a generic noun, but often a proper name for Israel’s God (e.g., Gen 33:20: “El, the God of Israel”)."
"I should add here that it is very clear from the grammar that the noun nachalah in v. 9 should be translated “inheritance.” *Yahweh receives Israel as his “inheritance” (nachalah), just as the other sons of El received their nations as their inheritance (nachal, v. 8).* With this verb, especially in the Hiphil, the object is always what is being given as an inheritance. Thus, Israel is given to Yahweh as his inheritance. ((Here I’m indebted to Dan McClellan.)) It would make no sense for Elyon to give himself an inheritance. Moreover, as I’ve argued elsewhere, it is not just the Gentile nations that are divided up according to the number of the sons of El. It is all of humankind, i.e., “the sons of Adam.” This clearly includes Israel. And the sons of Adam are not divided up according to the number of the sons of El, plus one (i.e., plus Elyon). They are divided up, according to the text, solely according to the number of the sons of El. *Thus, that Yahweh receives Israel as his inheritance makes Yahweh one of the sons of El mentioned in v. 8. Any other construal of the text would constitute its rewriting."*
*"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
(Written by Thom Stark who is a Christian)
*"Michael Heiser: A Unique Species? - Religion at the Margins"*
(A second response to Michael Heiser)
*"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."*
*"The Table of Nations: The Geography of the World in Genesis 10"* - TheTorah.com
(Excluding the short narrative on Nimrod (vv. 8-12), *which appears to be a later addition,* Genesis 10 contains *70* names of nations or cities, a number that was symbolic of totality. Similarly, the descendants of Jacob were *70* in number (Gen 46:37; Exod 1:5), *as were the sons of the supreme Canaanite god El, with whom YHWH became equated.)*
*"Polytheism and Ancient Israel’s Canaanite Heritage. Part V | theyellowdart"*
(Of course, much of this [i.e., that Israel worshiped El and Asherah alongside YHWH] is really to be expected given that recent syntheses of the *archaeological, cultural, and literary data* pertaining to the emergence of the nation of Israel in the Levant *show that most of the people who would eventually compose this group were originally Canaanite. As the Hebrew Bible notes, the Hebrew language itself is a Canaanite language, literally the “lip of Canaan” (שְׂפַת כְּנַעַן; Is. **19:18**), and so it cannot often be distinguished by modern scholars from other Canaanite inscriptions on purely linguistic grounds.)*
*"Ugarit - New World Encyclopedia"*
(Ugaritic religion centered on the chief god, Ilu or El, whose titles included "Father of mankind" and "Creator of the creation." The Court of El was referred to as the (plural) 'lhm or ***Elohim,*** a word ***later used by the biblical writers to describe the Hebrew deity*** and translated into English as "God," in the singular.
El, which was ***also the name of the God of Abraham,*** was described as an aged deity with white hair, seated on a throne.)
*"Mark Smith: Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh’s Ascendency - Lehi's Library"*
(Mark Smith is a Catholic)
*"God, Gods, and Sons (and Daughters) of God in the Hebrew Bible. Part III | theyellowdart"*
*"02 | December | 2009 | Daniel O. McClellan - Psalm 82"*
(Daniel McClellan is a Mormon)
*"Elohim | Daniel O. McClellan"*
(Refer to the article "Angels and Demons (and Michael Heiser)")
*"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
(Pay attention to whose wife Asherah (Athirat) is in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts and how she became the wife of YHWH/Yahweh)
*"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
*"Asherah, God's Wife in Ancient Israel. Part IV - theyellowdart"*
*"The Gates of Ishtar - El, was the original god of the bible."*
*"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri"*
(In addition to Asherah (Athirat) being the consort of Yahweh, it appears some Israelites also viewed the Canaanite goddess Anat(h) as Yahweh's consort)
*"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopedia"*
(Refer to the section "Relationship to Biblical Religion")
*"The Syncretization of Yahweh and El : reddit/AcademicBiblical"*
(For a good summary of all of the above articles)
Watch Professor Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 2 from 40:40 to 41:50 minutes, lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards, lecture 8 from 12:00 to 17:30 minutes and lecture 12 from 27:40 minutes onwards.
Watch *"Pagan Origins of Judaism"* by Sigalius Myricantur and read the description in the video to see the scholarship the video is based on.
Watch *"How Monotheism Evolved"* by Sigalius Myricantur and watch up to at least 21:40.
Watch *"Atheism - A History of God (The Polytheistic Origins of Christianity and Judaism)"*
(By a former theist)
Watch *"The Origins of Yahweh"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica.
I’m just glad that our timelines have crossed and that I can here experience your passion and the ability to express it as you do. Thank you Brandon. All the best to you and your family. Brian
Thats very kind. Thanks, Brian!
Brandon, I think doing an episode on the Nicene Council would demonstrate just how man made this all
Is.
YES, please do one on the Council, on Constantine and also on how "Apostle Paul" is actually the founder of Christianity, not Jesus.
Proof?
In Matthew 15:24 Jesus says: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
So what the hell is Paul up to preaching to the Gentiles - what clearly Jesus was not interested in doing?
Exactly. The whole thing should be called Paulianity
yes, ill get to it for sure. thank you.
Right from the start: "I believe in Jesus, and now i need to found why."
He is just rationalizing and doesn't seem to be aware of it.
100%!
That is hilarious that you brought up the microphone. I noticed how far away it was from you as well!
That aside, great job as always, sir!
Great video Brandon! Your videos are always well thought out and logical. I add these arguments to my mental library for the next time I have a debate with a religious person.
Love that. Happy to be in the Rolodex!
Great video Brandon! I was laughing during his video clip thinking “These are his reasons why Jesus is true?” I loved hearing your thoughts on it.
ha, thanks Chas!
Thursday was named after the Norse God, Thor. Easily irrefutable proof that he existed…..
I agree.
"That log cabin couldn't have just built itself. Trees couldn't just magically debark themselves and fall perfectly into a structure like that. This PROVES that Abraham Lincoln built that house." This is intelligent design in a nutshell.
Amen brother.
Every new video you post I think "This is your best one ever!". It's because in every video you say something that resonates with me and makes perfect sense. I've spent my whole life studying the Bible and asking questions. It got me kicked out of many churches but I still believed the Bible was true and that people weren't understanding it correctly. Then, I read it out loud 10 years ago. Layer by layer started to fall away the more I read it out loud and reading different versions one after another....in the last 10 years I've read the Bible out loud over a dozen times. I can see it for what it is now. It's religious propaganda. Thanks again for another great video!
Many, many thanks. Appreciate that! and yes at some point, the bible loses all its excuses and its just so unavoidable!
As usual spot on!
thanks!
Awesomeness as always. Rad!
Thanks!
As always - an outstanding video. Thank you.
Thank you!
Believing in the TH-cam algorithm makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside ❤
All hail the algorithm!!!
Al-go-rith-m, al-go-rith-m - everybody now! Al-go... never mind.
Don't forget the holy "Content ID flags" protector of the greedy corporations.
ha, thanks so much. that is faith well placed!
I think Matt Dillahunty made a pretty good case to cliffe that his evidence was of very poor quality.
Thank you so much for your channel. You are able to take my thoughts and put them into words. You have a lifer
Appreciate that big time!
My conversion was a giant leap of faith as well, from probably a higher being created us, to let's embrace Christianity since it's big in the world.
Amazing video. Thanks Brandon. Currently reading, Man Made God by Barbara G. Walker. This book touches on everything you are saying.
ohhh, adding it to my list now. thanks!
What a great take-down of the argument that there must be a God if there is a Love!! That is the argument that drives me craziest and you have dashed it to pieces. Thanks again Brandon!
Thank you very much. It bothers me quite a lot too
Thank you Brandon... U are helping me so much in my own deconstruction.
Thats all i want. The whole purpose of this channel. So thank you!
Religion is just a placeholder for questions we don't yet have the answers to.
Shrug.
Do you disassociate from religion?
@@chadtyrone Shrug. You refuse to discuss science with me, so I assume you are a primitive intellect with no education.
Religion is a social phenomenon that reflects the beliefs of societies relative to what they think is sacred
Your definition is very simplistic
@@kettei7743 Are you educated in any science? If you're not, your opinion is pretty meaningless, right?
I have a buddy who believes that because Jesus may have been an actual person that he is the true son of God.
And I said to him Julius, and Augustus, were real people, so they must have ascended to heaven and are son's of a god. The mental gymnastics he performed to dismiss those claims were absolutely amazing.
Like claims of being the son of a god and ascending to heaven was nothing new back then. Nothing about Jesus is special and original.
The propitiatory sacrifice for atonement thing is kind of unique, but it's also ridiculous and devolves god into a sleazy lawyer.
@@cygnustsp And it also makes God look like a mob boss "That's a nice soul you got there, would be a shame if it burnt for all of eternity, UNLESS you believe in me".
Truth don"t need evidence. It is so. Belief is not truth.
Thank you ever so much for making this excellent rebuttal. We can know some things for certain but there are many things we can't know for certain. I am completely certain of the following:
1. I am conscious.
2. I am typing in English.
3. I am not all-knowing.
4. I am not all-powerful.
5. I change.
6. I can't do lots of things I really want to do e.g. go back in time and prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths and make all living things forever happy.
7. I do some things even though I don't want to do them. Here are some things I have done, currently do or will do even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Snore
20. Think
21. Feel
22. Choose
23. Be conceived
24. Be born
25. Remember some events that I don't want to remember
26. Forget information that I want to remember
27. Die
I am almost certain of the following:
1. I and all the other organisms currently alive will die. Every second brings all organisms closer to death.
2. My body, other organisms, the Earth and the Universe really exist and they are not part of a simulation or hallucination or dream or illusion.
3. Other organisms e.g. humans, cows, dogs, cats, chickens, pigs, lions, elephants, butterflies, whales, dolphins, etc. are sentient beings who feel pain.
4. Being a non-consumer is more ethical than being an autotroph, being an autotroph is more ethical than being a vegan/herbivore, being a vegan is more ethical than being a vegetarian, and being a vegetarian is more ethical than being an omnivore or carnivore.
5. Gods do not exist.
6. Souls do not exist.
7. Reincarnation does not happen.
8. Resurrection does not happen.
10. Organisms evolved and were not created by God or Gods.
11. 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth became extinct in 5 mass extinctions long before humans evolved.
12. Humans and other organisms do not have free will. Our wills are determined and constrained by our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. The reason I have put this one in the almost certain category is that it is possible that bodies, genes, cells, stars, planets, moons, galaxies, universes may not actually exist. These things could be part of a simulation or dream or hallucination or illusion. It is impossible to know with complete certainty. I could be a solipsistic soul experiencing the illusion of being in a human body on a planet in a universe or I could be a body without any soul - I don't know these things for sure, hence I am an agnostic.
The phrase “I just know deep in my heart that this man is not guilty” would not hold water in a courtroom. Sorry, there needs to be hard, tangible evidence to prove the judge and jury why this man is not guilty of his crime.
Love that!
I've been an atheist probably since before you were born and I think your videos are excellent and very well expressed. Keep up the good work
Appreciate hearing that very much. Thank you
- Amen, brother!
Thank you for a wonderful video! I just joined rhe pateron!
11:18 hits something so on the nose for me. So much of what Christian’s describe as god is just a product of living in a first world country in modern times. The insistence that god has a plan for us, calling everything a blessing, free will, and it goes on. They never square that with little kids forced to work in diamond minds or trafficked for the unspeakable. Or even women and minorities in the not so distant past. Was it God’s plan for my great grandmother to be married off at 13? It’s like narcissism and main character syndrome are embedded in modern western Christianity.
Christianity thrived even before the "first world" living came about in the west.
@@bingo7799 Is there a point to your statement? Genuine question. Do you think modern day Christians are wrong? Does Christianity change with culture? Are you a Christian, do you have it right? You’ve made a vague somewhat antagonist statement with no real application.
yes! no meaning or love for so many out there, does god just not exist to them?
@@missinterpretation4984 My point is a counter to the notion that the modern Christians view of God is due to living in a "first world" country. My point is that modern Christian views on God haven't changed since the church was established for the most part and in that period between then and now, Christians have lived in other than first world conditions. That's my point. Other than that maybe I didn't follow what you were trying to say.
@@MindShift-Brandon There are people as you describe finding meaning and love in God through Jesus by the thousands today still. People living in the depths of despair but finding a way out. It's amazing to hear their stories.
I saw this machine on a TH-cam channel. It consisted of a reservoir of beebees on top, a number of pins in a triangular pattern in the center, and a series of receptacles on the bottom. When the beebees are released, they go through the pins that sort them randomly and then drop them into the receptacles. This creates a bell curve. Everytime. It is astonishing and counter intuitive. There is nothing working but a simple random process, and yet it generates a bell curve predictably. You can do the math; the laws of probability explain why that pattern emerges everytime, but if I trusted my intuition, I would conclude that there was a genie in the machine that drew the curve. All of this guy's arguments are parallel to my astonishment at the results of this machine.
Are you applying this to origin of life, or what?
@@20july1944 I said very clearly "every argument": creation, love, meaning of life, and whatever else he said. I don't remember him saying anything about abiogenesis. Nevertheless, order emerges spontaneously everywhere in nature. There is no reason to draw arbitrary barriers such as the beginning of life.
Where’s the video of this machine? I want to watch it😊
@@JJ_Smilez I lost it. But the short subject on the channel by "Dr. Shane Ross," has one called "Probability Machine" which has a more elaborate version than I described.
Thank you ❤
Thanks for watching so much and all your kind comments!
Another excellent video Brandon - thanks again for everything you do in behalf of the quest for knowledge and truth...
My pleasure! And thank you!
It's amazing that with so much evidence for the existence of the deity you were culturally and geographically groomed to believe exists that faith and not evidence is a virtue.
"I can't prove that he exists, but I have all this evidence." "There's got to be something ..." That has to be the oxymoron of the year, if that is the proper word for this type of thinking. The purpose of evidence is to provide reasons to believe. If the evidence does not rationally lead to an acceptance of the proposition, then the evidence is NOT conclusive, and you are not justified in proportioning your belief to the proposition.
I cannot prove that Thor ever existed, but once a lot of people believed in him. Evidence for Thor included thunder and the existence of hammers. I could go on all day. Why does this dill not believe in Thor if he cannot prove his existence?
How did the universe begin without God? Let's start there.
@@20july1944 How did God begin? Let's start there.
@@20july1944 1. Which god?
2. On what basis do you assume that the universe had a beginning? And before you mention it. No, the Big Bang theory says nothing about the beginning of the universe, it only explains its expansion.
3. It actually takes 10 gods to start a universe.
4. Gods only get born inside an existing universe.
@@ronthered138 The universe definitely exists, so how did it start?
If you have an answer without God, don't worry about God.
@@20july1944 The short answer is, that I do not know if the universe was created or has always existed. Until science advances to the point where we do have answers, I will reserve judgement. Until then, I will also reserve judgement on the existence of supernatural deities.
In short, thank you, I will not worry about god.
You couldn't have explained this any better. It's all my thoughts better put into words. Thank you!
Appreciate that!
Wow ! Mind-blowing. How you laid it out in this video . . . was CRYSTAL clear and SECOND to NONE 👌👌. You covered almost every conceivable angle of this religion dilemma that humanity is stuck inside, but in THIS particular video, you covered it much more expressively with just enough patience to take us full circle (360 degrees) around the various dimensions of this dilemma.
What a comment! Thank you so much for these kind insights.
Daughter: I can't believe in god
Mother: Honey, look out the window.
Daughter: Yeah, yeah, the trees, the animals...
Mother: No, no, honey. Look at all the churches. If god didn't exist, why would he need all that property?
There were a lot of "Jesus'" back then walking around claiming to be the messiah.
What's your evidence for that?
@@20july1944 : just look up people believing to be the reincarnation of Jesus, there are several alive today.
@@20july1944 I keep posting references but it keeps getting flagged as spam. Google is your friend. "Many messiahs during Jesus' time"
@@20july1944 Can you disprove it?
@@Roukan0 There's no end to challenges to "disprove" something historical, so I avoid posing that challenge and won't respond to yours.
The difference between a person saying "I do not know" and a person saying "I don't know therefore God" is the difference between humble curiosity and from the events like the Salem Witch Trials (its more complex than this but it supports my point)
Great content
These poor youngsters on this podcast with Cliff have no idea that he snuck in a definition of "prove" that basically no average person uses. Cliff's sneaky definition of "prove" is to prove with an absolute certainty as if we can have an omniscient type knowledge. With that definition, you can't "prove" anything. Thus, Cliff is able to set up his unfortunate listeners for failure from the start, which gives him a way into their minds with his apologetics trickery. He's basically a clever used car salesman for christianity.
IDK people should listen to Pastor Christmas and flip it around on them; they say can you prove there is no God flip it around by asking them can you prove there's a God 🤔 Now it's back to them, and don't take none of their little excuses of all look at the animals, or my favorite the Potter and the wheel... Only in Disney movies do dishes talk😂
yes, and his street preaching on school campuses goes similarly.
I saw this same type of reasoning on a Quora thread concerning near-death experiences (NDEs). A priest discussed them as if they were "proof" that not only is the afterlife real, but that NDEs someone prove HIS version of Christianity is true.
I pointed out that they are called _"near"_ death for a reason, and could well be the hallucinations of a dying brain.
I also pointed out the obvious fact that even if I am wrong and they are the real deal, they don't in any way validate either Catholicism or Christianity in general because people of all (and no) religions have reported them. And, some non-Christians have reported "heavenly" NDEs, while some devout Christians have reported "hellish" ones.
Yeah if NDEs proved anything, it would be that somehow many different Gods and afterlives exist.
yes, great point. NDE's are even more frustrating than order, meaning, love for this reason.
In one of Guy Harrison's Books - I think it is _50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God,_ but it could be from _50 Simple Questions for Every Christian_ - it brings up another detail about NDEs: what is "seen" in them is very highly dependent on the person's background, not just in religious upbringing but also in the iconography they are regularly surrounded by. Christians see the ones you mention, Hindus see one of their deities (IIRC, Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva are the most commonly seen, individually or in a group), and so on. Even the non-Christian (which usually means atheist) "heavenly" NDEs were found to have been based on the iconography that the person had regularly been surrounded by, willingly or not.
The fact that absolutely none of these have been some kind of cross-religious experience - no Christian saw Shiva, no Hindu saw Yahweh, no Jew saw Zeus, no atheist saw Nyarlathotep, etc. - should raise serious doubt and questions about the "proof" that NDEs supposedly provide. As the author suggested, once one such crossing NDE happens, it would probably be taken more seriously (though still not necessarily true), then maybe such "proof" will have something resembling a leg to stand on, but until then, file that under Special Pleading.
One of the best examples I know of is that of Colton Burpo, the subject of _Heaven is for Real._ As a very young kid, he had an NDE when he suffered appendicitis at three years old. When he recovered, which is something not easily doable, especially at such a young age witb such a small body, he began talking about all that he said he experienced from heaven. Allow me to summarize a lot about it:
• Okay, coming from such a young kid (who has long since grown up and had been using his story in his family's traveling ministry - I think you can guess where this is going), that sounds like it would be compelling proof, right? Well, his father, in addition to being a volunteer firefighter (which is undoubtedly respectable, and I am sure he was at least decent at it), he had been a pastor for most of his life, and his family was going through hard times, especially on the financial side, when Colton suffered appendicitis.
• Wait, but he was only three, right? He could not have had many memories made at that point and thus had no biases towards what he saw, right? True, the earliest one can start forming and retaining conscious memories is at three years old. However, pretty much all of Colton's descriptions... were from imagery his father had from his ministry. Even setting aside the timing for conscious memories, ingrained biases still form before then as one is forming instincts towards self-preservation. So basically, the biases were kind of already there - maybe not as strong as they would be if this had all occurred later in his life, but they were likely already there.
• His family's traveling ministry? After they went through hard financial troubles? Yeah, that could be the biggest red flag of it all. Sure, part of it could be explained at how ridiculously expensive American healthcare is, and small-time pastors like Colton's father are not exactly known for living high on the hog (at least not through legal means, but I am not suggesting or accusing anything about them on this front, let me make that clear), which would make getting him the medical care he needed quite the difficult experience. However, given what became of them after it (and who they seem to favor as audiences), one should really ask if what Colton saw in his NDE is all real (maybe it was, but one should always take any claim with salt)... or if it was a way to help his family get out of their financial difficulties.
The gist: NDEs are not exactly proof of anything, except maybe that some people will believe literally anything.
@@DavidRichardson153
While I don't know for sure what NDEs are, I have a good guess. They are most likely a human brain resisting death, and releasing mind-altering substances so that the person has the most vivid hallucination ever before their mind blinks out for all eternity. I think that is fascinating, but sad and very final.
Lol omg, I absolutely love that the best episode (IMHO) that you've ever done has you making a silly "mistake" with the mic :p. It genuinely made me happy, your videos are always so well done and polished.
But yeah this episode spoke volumes to me, because you start with the very concept of a god, then the assumption that THEIR religion is the correct one, then you move on to the beautiful points of "ppl years from now are going to think your beliefs just as silly as you think our ancestors were". I especially loved the bit about all the people who lived and died miserable, unable to think about anything beyond the most basic survival, the pain and misery that was their entire lives. Because they were born in a time less developed, how many genius minds have been lost due to that fact? How many millions were talented and far better than a hulk of humanity has been lost due to shitty circumstances? I think about this all the time. Loved that you called people who are so sure they're correct for their hubris and narcissism. I appreciate that the creator of the video you used as a jumping off point tried to study and base his beliefs in facts and logic and studied to try and find these reasons, but it's odd that he came out of that study more theistic. It's an interesting example of confrontation bias imo. I also like that you recognized that not all of us are looking for some deeper higher meaning in life, I did for a few years but I came to the conclusion that everybody has (or should have) the ability to make their own meaning, even if it's small and insignificant to someone else. Life should be what we make of it, and people who try to tell you that your personal meaning and feelings are nothing because they believe in some fairy tale, then demand you live your life by that fairy tales rules is offensive and infuriating.
My only "disagreement?" is how "unpoetic" that all your feelings are just a result of evolution and biochemistry. And it's not really a disagreement, just a different point of view. I find it more beautiful BECAUSE it's simple biology. Thinking about how profoundly we all feel and believe and knowing the mechanisms behind it, yet we still have the same feels, that never steals the magic from it for me. I often find it more amusing knowing all that we do but also feeling as deeply as we do. I think it also speaks volumes to the fact that there doesn't have to be any mystery behind things for us to accept and love them, it doesn't strip the magic from it. Magic wasn't a good word to use there but I'm pressed on time and I'm sure anyone can take my meaning. It's one of my favorite things in life.
I know I'm commenting a day or 2 late but hands down this is one of the best videos in this genre that I've seen. Great job, thanks for your work you do.
Thank you for this. The kjndness, the insight, the feedback etc. a wonderful comment and i really appreciate it!
Oh and you are the newest patron supporter! I sent you a message there but thank you so much!
@@MindShift-Brandon heh I'm just a fan of ppl who can put what I think and feel into coherent words. I'm not great with communication. I find myself saying "thank you" alot when someone communicates my thoughts. While I do really like your other videos this one just hit more for me.
I'm really happy that you've been on atheist experience? The line? One of those call in channels with alot of other creators I love. I haven't been able to see them all but I suspect you did very well. Having a fundie background, empathy, and humility (hopefully a mix of the 3) is an important background for taking those calls, and you seem to possess those, so.....cool :)
Thank you for this timelessly timely exposition. Your precision and eloquence are exemplary. If my brain happens to be in a vat, I'd surely prefer it' to be this one. 🙂
Thank you. Love that!
I'm sort of hoping we end up abandoning all gods.
Or at least not consider them important enough to base important decisions on the mythologies surrounding them.
It’s a really big tell that these apologists, on the whole, choose atheism as their target instead of, hmmm, say, another religion? It’s so rare to see them go after Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or any other faith which, to be fair, in the world as a whole, is their true counterpoint. You really have to search to find apologetics that are not aimed against atheism & I wonder why this is? A few reasons come to mind immediately. One, attacking Islam brings a backlash that a true believer wouldn’t be afraid of because truth etc but these guys steer well clear of. Two, atheists are almost exclusively passive in their counter apologetics. We rely on evidence, debate & reasoned arguments & rarely enter into polemics & violent rhetoric. We’re a soft target. Lastly I’d suggest it’s tough for them to attack another religion when that belief system relies on exactly the same level of evidence as theirs does. Nearly all the things they’d like to use against a competing faith are arguments against their own. Thus we live in a world where a myriad of mutually exclusive religions exist with none of them really debunking the other. It’s worse tho cos I’ve seen many vids of people with totally opposing religions gathered in a circle & joining forces to “debunk” atheism. What’s that about? I take it as a compliment that despite data showing that, especially in the US, atheism isn’t their true opponent yet they put so much effort into fighting it. They see the future & it looks bleak for organized religion so thanks for the confirmation that non belief is what they’re really scared about. It’s inspiring.
"Thus we live in a world where a myriad of mutually exclusive religions exist with none of them really debunking the other."
Christianity debunks every other religion.
I believe the historical life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, this is recorded in the gospels which are eyewitness accounts.
"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:30-31
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 It’s the apologetics I’m discussing, not the holy books or the tenets of these faiths. Of course they all claim to be the one real religion as that’s the inherent requirement. Now explain why the apologists of these faiths all seem to ignore each other & lunge to attack non belief instead? Maybe if we had a world where all these divergent beliefs competed peacefully through evidence, debate & agreement until there was ONE winning religion the world would be a more peaceful place. Apologetics never seem to bother with this as tithe is free money & catering to the flock is a business. If sectarianism or Jihad is you’re rebuttal to my point I’d suggest that’s more of a problem than a solution.
@@RexCalliber
"Now explain why the apologists of these faiths all seem to ignore each other & lunge to attack non belief instead?"
You are living in a bubble, christian apologists refute other religions like they do atheism, secular humanism is the ideology of many people nowadays so it gets a lot of attention especially in the west.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 The bubble I’m in is an apologists bubble. AIG, Hovind, Living Waters, Discovery Institute & all the other YT apologist channels. I suggest you go to those channels & their websites & do a little survey? What percentage are counterpoints to other religions vs no religion. I think you’ll be surprised?
There’s a good reason they don’t do much work on Islam etc because that would require READING the Quran to critique it. Are you trying to convince me that these Christian apologists have read the Quran?
Just absolutely PERFECT!!!!!!!! Out of the park fly ball, Home Run, game winner!
ha! thank you!
Wow, this is a blast from the past. Knechtle came to my co-op at UT Austin to engage in conversation / argumentation, and it had to be four decades ago. I remember one of my fellow co-operas asked him whether he had a tomato in his shoe as a riff on having faith versus proof. I don’t recall Knechtle handling it so well.
Lol wow! No idea he had done it that long. One would think hed have some better responses after 40 years of arguing it.
Mind, Cliffe is cringe! He is one of the reasons I will hate to be in heaven, please keep posting videos of him and Ray Comfort as a bonus, you're work is important, you bring a fresh perspective.
thank you, i am planning another Tuesday on his street preaching!
Amazing video. You are 100% right. If we are to believe that YHWH exists, we also have to believe in his divine council and the gods of the other ancient nations.
Is Thor ruling the skies? Is it because of Loki, I could find my other sock? 🤔 ( wait… God I hope so).
"the gods of the other ancient nations"
"For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols,
but the Lord made the heavens." Psalm 96:5
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 yes, there are many different authors in the Bible with differing views about God and or gods. You are quoting for a Psalm that was most likely written in the Persian period when Judaism was evolving towards more monotheistic tendencies. Please recall, in Exodus, the Egyptian gods exist and YHWH battles them through Moses and Aaron. In Ruth, the gods of Moab exist. It depends on which corner of the Bible you are reading from.
@@michaelhenry1763
"the Egyptian gods exist and YHWH battles them through Moses and Aaron."
Those "gods" are demons who deceive people to worship them as gods.
"What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons." 1 Corinthians 10:19-20
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 Paul’s letters, such as 1 Corinthians, are commentaries on the Tanakh. Paul did not write Exodus. If Paul thinks the gods of Egypt are demons that is his opinion. However, the authors of the Exodus do not have any concepts of demons. They are attributing the powers of the Egyptian priests and magicians to the Egyptian gods.
The reason why Paul thinks they are demons is because of the conceptual evolution of angels and demons throughout the Second-Temple Jewish period. With those ideas grafted onto Paul’s theology, he imports these ideas into his Torah readings. All the same, though, demons are deities too, just lower-level. It is a way for Paul to demote the other gods and elevate his god.
No religion is truly monotheistic.
I've studied religions from the view of, "what can a person be convinced to believe and why?", and I think you nailed it. The way I would put it, to be sensitive, is that "deities represent a target for expressing gratitude that the concept of existence itself exists." The fact that anything happens baffles the religious mind and inspires stories about purpose and plans. They think nothing happens without a mind to will it.
Thanks!
Thanks so much!
In naturalistic worldview love is a chemical reaction in your brain nothing else, if you love your family it's just chemistry you can deceive yourself by thinking that love is a real feeling but the reality is that love is a chemical reaction.
People's whose brain architecture is changed ( e.g. by Alzheimer's) can forget who loved ones are and become aggressive toward them. Alcohol and MDMA can make people affectionate or amorous towards people they never met before. Depression can cause people to lose interest in others. Love seems to be very chemical.
@@ianchisholm5756
I don't deny that there are chemical reactions in our brains, but if you reduce love to just a chemical reaction then you don't have anything but uncontrollable chemical reaction, you love because your brain makes you to love.
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 I absolutely agree we love because our brains make us love. Our minds sometimes (perhaps often) make decisions that we don't control, although I think that vewing the brain and the self as two separate entities complicates matters. People can't choose who or what they love; nor do they have the freedom not to dislike a certain person or be disgusted by a particular thing. We often don't know consciously why we react in a certain way. We do, depending on the person and the situation, have varying degrees of control over how we act on those feelings, but emotions are, by definition, things that happen within and to us. Those chemical reactions in our heads are precisely what make us human.
@@ianchisholm5756
"People can't choose who or what they love"
So I cannot choose to love righteousness and hate iniquity?
So I cannot choose to love God and hate sin?
@@heavenbound7-7-7-7 My question is simple and not intended flippantly: could you genuinely choose differently?
As usual, just an appeal to emotion through half-baked assertions. The usual mumbo jumbo, but that's the whole extent of what they can produce as apologists.
Are you educated in science or history? You look like an ignorant hillbilly and your name suggests the same, but maybe you'll surprise me.
indeed
Thanks for your insightful comments. I enjoy reading about the gods and goddesses of the pre-Christian world. They were different in many ways but they had devoted worshippers too. Man-made religions have been around for thousands of years and they are still around.
This is why I like using the Flying Spaghetti Monster comparison. If I take the apologist's argument and replace God with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, would anything change? In a log of cases, they would have easily proved the FSM as real as they did their God.
The fact that no Scientists consider God in a scientific context should clue these people in that there is no good, let alone overwhelming evidence for him. There's plenty of religious Scientists, but none publish papers investigating God, because applying scientific rigour doesn't lead you there.
You're wrong, there are many scientists who consider God in a scientific context.
James Tour
Hugh Ross
Fazale Ranna
Jeff Zwerink
Discovery Institute (several there)
I'm listening to the radio now for a few hours but I'll circle back
@@20july1944 Make sure you give is those references to the peer reviewed papers they published investigating god.
To be fair, the reason scientists must apply methodological naturalism to their research, and can't investigate any gods scientifically, is because magic is definitionally the suspension of the laws of nature. If there was a god that caused anything to happen via magic, then it would be impossible to draw any predictions or learn anything from that, because it only occurs at the whim of a deity.
If scientists started from the premise that God "did it," then all of science would be completely pointless, because no investigation could ever produce a consistent explanation. Any and all conclusions we come to could become null and void if and when a god decided to change the rules.
That's why religious scientists must conclude that if there is a God, he created the universe via natural processes that we can investigate and understand, rather than by casting spells.
@@chameleonx9253You could still use methodological naturalism to investigate instances of the laws of physics being bent.
Unfortunately for all our searching, we have yet to find these instances taking place at all.
@@leob3447 They're all variants of intelligent design, that's where God is visible constantly.
phenomenal!!!!!!!
Thank you sir!
14:05 yeap 100% 😂
Thank you. Million likes.
Thank you!
Clear rationality is a great contributor to the meaning of life. Thank you, Brandon.
Thank you!