Let’s be honest, here is the appeal to the T7 for a lot of people right now: Unless KTM has fixed the laundry list of reoccurring problems on the 790 with the 890, all those fancy electronics, brakes, etc aren’t worth shit if they fail on the side of the trail and the bike is unrideable. No it doesn’t turn into a T7 if you lose traction control and abs, it turns into a paperweight with no power and goes into limp mode. That’s what I’m struggling with regarding the 890, simply don’t know if I can justify the extra performance and price if the bike isn’t reliable. If the 890 proves to be reliable long term it would be a the best bike in its class for off road, without a doubt. Awesome conversation though and you guys made a lot of good points in favor of both bikes. As with any conversation regarding an ADV, it all comes down to how you’re going to use and the type of riding you’re going to be doing, as well as your budget. Dollar for dollar, the T7 is the best value in the motorcycle industry right now in any category. Hands down. You guys nailed it with that one.
@@JoshuaTootell Yup, same here. But reliability and fun factor can, and should go hand in hand. All of the electronic rider aids in the world aren’t worth their weight in gold if they leave you stranded on the side of the trail. Especially on an ADV bike.
the reliability is so overstated. i have four ktms, including a 790 rally, and reliability has never been a concern and i don't baby the ktms. so, enough with the reliability story. it's an old story and the excuse that t7 like to use to hate the 790/890. notice that only t7 owners hate 790/890. 790/890 owners don't bother to hate t7.
@@damytzeus it’s not an old story, not even close. I’m not going to try to debate this with if you’re that clueless about all the problems KTM’s have had, and especially rejected warranty issues that are very clearly manufacturer failures. Yeah you haven’t had any problems with your 4 bikes, and that’s great, but if you do some research you’ll see you’re in the minority. Especially with regard to the 790, which is not an “old story”. Just watch this video. m.th-cam.com/video/SauochkRQE8/w-d-xo.html
@@efremcalis5843 Yes it has enough power and rider comfort to do cross-country touring, but if that was the only kind of riding you did then there are plenty of road bikes that would do it better. The idea of the Tenere is that it can do that as well as tackle serious off-road.
I picked the T7. The motor. The balance. The ease of changing the oil and air filter. Suspension = good enough. My friends who both have the KTM's, both bikes have been in the shop with motor issues.
I have owned many bike brands. Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda and a Yamaha. Now I have both an 890 adv R and the 890 duke. I’ve enjoyed them all so much and learned a lot along the way. My ADV R did have a tiny leak from new but dealer fixed right away and it’s been totally problem free and a thrill to ride. The duke has also been such a blast as well. All the other bikes I’ve owned were wonderful too, but KTM ADVR has me always soooo excited to rip up the trails and enjoy the ride there and back. T7 is definitely something I’d like to ride, but it doesn’t stir anything in me. Thanks for the review guys!
115 mph top speed and 4.5 second 0-60 stock isn’t slow dude. That’s actually very fast, it’s not a sport bike it’s an offroad bike and you wont even go that fast offroad anyways.
I rode my European T7 17,000 km through the Alps and Dolomites this summer in three months. In the US I own a GS Adventure. I think I have the two most perfect bikes for what I do that can be had. The Yamaha is bullet proof. The Yamaha has torque everywhere. You can go around switchbacks at a 9% grade in second or third gear. It cannot be stalled. It can go 130 km/h all day. The BMW is an easy chair on the Highway. It can go 400 miles without a stop (I can’t!). It is easy to stall because it has no torque at 1,000 rpms. I don’t do real off road rocks. But I do every trail in the Alps and Dolomites and I would never attack them on the BMW. If I had to own just one motorcycle it would be the Yamaha which if I lived in the USAi would put a larger countershaft sprocket on.
I think the majority of riders will hit the ceiling of their own ability before the hitting the limits of the T7. To take full advantage of the KTM 890 one needs to be an expert rider. The reliability and parts availability make the Yamaha more appealing to me.
As a relatively new rider on adventure bikes(10 years on the street though), I ended up with an 890R because I couldn’t find a T7. I’ve already been in multiple situations this year where the suspension has been bottomed out, the ABS has saved my life, and the traction control has been a game changer on hill climbs. The quick shifter has been amazing on the street riding with crotch rockets. Love the T7 as well, but not regretting being pushed to orange. 5’6, first year on an adventure bike and taking something 470 pounds off road.
Yamaha has no bikes available currently,and not many parts if any available. They are really stuck with supply line problems,maybe 2 years till it gets sorted out? Yamaha wouldnt even take my deposit on a T7. No idea when bikes will happen....so there's that.
@@bradsanders6954 I agree Brad. I’m on several wait lists with multiple dealers. None will take a deposit or place an order with Yamaha. It’s mid October. I’ll live with my R.E. Himalayan until Spring. Hopefully we’ll begin to see 2022s after the first of the year and I’ll try to snag one. I’ll travel to another state if I have to. Otherwise if one doesn’t come available by the time I sell my R.E. I guess I’ll be riding an 890 next year.
@@burkerow I kept my tricked out DR650 and bought an 890R. No test ride just bought it. Its the most fun bike Ive ever owned,an absolute riot. I laugh riding it and getting off it. Never had a street or dirt bike as fun as this one. Where ever I park it people want to know about it.
@@bradsanders6954 Thanks Brad. I’ve done some international travel on motorcycles. I’ve ridden through 10 countries in SE Europe and have intentions of riding my new bike (when I buy one) to places like Mexico, Central and South America, the Stans ( Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc.). For that I want a simple, reliable bike with easy to obtain parts. I want a bike that anyone anywhere can work on. All of that said, if I can’t snag a T7 by March, I’ll be riding “Orange” next Summer, at an extra cost of $4,000.
Great attitude and good discussion! 1190 adv r owner for 5 years, sold that, now have a Xr650l. Test rode the T7, really want the T7. Agree, the brakes on the T7 are soft, super soft. I wonder if a pad change would fix that.
I think MOST of these bikes spend very little time in truly gnarly off road situations. For those conditions, the T7 is the clear winner. It's superiority as an everyday motorcycle is more important that the KTMs superiority in those few situations in gnarly off-road riding.
On road? The 890R is a great streetbike,that's the deal. 95HP is a good thing. Wider seat. +Its good off road, Might be best to ride one. Ive got 2K miles on my 890R and it is addicting to ride.
This is where what we all think adventure bikes are changes considerably. 90% of my adventure riding is deep into the bush and knarly. I feed off performance. I need fuel range and comfort. The ktm wins for the right adventure rider. Great other options at different levels exist. AT, T7, klr . all different levels.
@@bradsanders6954 I agree....bought my 890r in March and have hit part of the Colorado bdr, Colorado trail systems and highways/windy roads and it is an all around fantastic bike. It handles amazing for it's size and weight and the power is top notch
@@2fly1974 Ive only got 2200 miles on mine,but it works great and is maybe the funnest bike Ive ever had. It cruises dirt and gravel roads about as easy as my tricked out DR650. The 890R is Really fun on tight curvy paved roads,it flies.
Stellar review and conversation!!! Very balanced. I'd just add you skipped a little bit of the 890 glitches discussion. Both of my friends that own them have had their bikes back in the shop for warranty work, one of them has occasional fits of hard starting despite a lot of head scratching. I don't think they are quite as refined as the vibe here would indicate.
Same problem my buddy is having with his brand new 890R - it’s hard to start in the morning. Once it warms up, it’s fine, but when it’s cold, it nearly kills the battery trying to turn it over. For a $15K bike with 800 miles on it, that’s pretty disappointing.
@@E-087 Don't know BMW's but these KTM's have some issues. Both that I'm familiar with. One of them has some water stuck in the TFT and KTM will warranty it but can't say if the new one will be any different.... when it come in hopefully by years end.
I had a brief ride of a T7 and hated the way the clutch cover rubbed on my leg. I didn’t have boots on, probably would be OK then. Was recently at a Sydney dealer looking for another bike and mentioned the 790/890 to the sales guy. To which he smiled and noted the number of times they have had to replace the engines. And he sells them. By the way, KTM a owner here. I have a friend with a 790 Rally and now an 890 Rally- no problems apart from the fact that KTM had to replace the front wheel on his 790 due to out of balance problems.
A lot of people are talking about the reliability or lack there of with the KTM. I rode my 2019 KTM 1290 SAR to Los Cabos and back up to Wyoming. Both on and off road. Through all types of weather. The bike never missed a beat.
Same, I have the 890R and it's done some tough trips without any problems. I think some of the maintenance bashing when it comes to KTMs is based in reality (some of the early issues with the 790) and some is just what people who have never had a KTM say to make themselves sound/feel superior.
One thing you didn't mention is looks. I know they are subjective, but personally I think the T7 is a much more handsome bike. Between the looks and reliability, it was an easy decision for me and I don't regret it one bit. I love my Tenere 700.
@@bradsanders6954 it seems like most people disagree with you on looks. You know what else matters? Reliability. I'll enjoy riding my bike while yours is in the shop.
@@justsomedude445 lol, motorcycles are emotional purchases. People buy what moves them, including the looks. If you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you. I guess that makes sense if you are riding the KTM (kidding). I also get that looks are subjective.
I dont really think these 2 bikes are targetted for the same rider and so arent really comparable. Yeah theyre both adventure bikes but I reckon thats where the similarities end. Look at their main differences other than price: ergos, suspension, windscreen, motor characteristics, etc. I think its in these areas where it shows that perhaps KTM are going for riders who are transitioning slowly off mx or enduro bikes into adventure bikes, whereas the T7 is enticing the DR650 type of rider who is upgrading or to the more offroad adventurous adventure rider than say a Vstrom or GS. great discussion though 👍🏼
I am one of those guys that is slowly transitioning from dirt bikes to adventure/dual sports. A few riding buddies and myself test road these and the 790 and all of us picked the T7 as the favorite. It’s much more “dirt bike” like
Great vid! Offtopic, but can anyone tell what pants are those at 19:14 ? I need to get a new pair for myself. In light colour... grey/white for the reason not to get burnt during the summer's sun heat. Cheers
Yamaha for the win and for the longer life and reliability. The extra money I saved I can use to make it as awesome as extra money savings can buy. If you have the money to spend and only want the best of course the KTM is the right choice, both are amazing neither is a bad choice.
@@pappaclutch3266 Matter of opinion. Those with Yamaha money will buy a Yamaha, those that can afford the KTM will get it, especially after a back to back ride. The performance is not in the same league. Both are good bikes and will do everything you ask, just depends on the experience/excitement you want out of it.
@@freebehindbars8654 Price is not the only reason to choose a T7. Reliability aside, a modified T7 with top shelf suspension and a diet can weigh 30kgs less and be easier to handle off-road, especially in sand and loose terrain.
Although the KTM carries more fuel than the Yami, do they both do OK on lower octane petrol? I'm still not convinced that the KTM won't let me down in the bush. I'll go for Japanese reliability for a bike that I can depend on. Thanks for the great, informed comparison, backed by deep riding experience!
There's room for improvement on the Tenere. I would like to see an updated version with a configuration similar to the WRF250 where the air filter is where the tank would be, and the fuel relocated to under the seat. That would bring the weight down the center of gravity and right in between the legs, which would make it as nimble as the KTM. Also, relocating the exhaust higher and with a different anchor point would be awesome. They could call this version the Tenere Adventure. These changes would help bridge the gap in performance between these bikes.
Your talking about a complete different motorcycle with those changes. The 890R already has all that plus electrics that work great in varied conditions,and WP suspension,and tubeless wheels.....guys like to think all KTM's break? But they dont. And boy is my 890 fun,cant stop laughing after a good ride. HP matters.
I own a modded up 790 (fuel controller, exhaust changes, WP Pro suspension, single caliper up front, aftermarket wheels, etc). I also own a modded up T700 (Fuel controller, exhaust changes, after market fork cartridges & shock, single caliper up front, aftermarket wheels, etc). Both are great. From a performance standpoint the T700 is better in the gnarly stuff and the KTM is better at speed. Point being even with a 50% (+) cost difference nothing is set in stone as to which is better. I love the 790 when I want to ride fast like a screaming banshee with my hair on fire. I love my T700 when I want to billy goat up something that is pushing my personal limits. They are very very different bikes.
Big fan of KTM performance characteristics but would like to see more consistent quality out of this platform. My 2019 690 Enduro R has been stellar and 100 lbs. less weight than either of these bikes. That said I am giving up on-road comfort, range and hauling capacity.
Agreed that the 690 is better in more extreme off-road conditions but like you said, both of these twins are a lot more comfortable if you want/need to do much highway mileage.
Great video and interesting points, I just got back from doing the Alpine loops in Colorado on my 2019 690 Enduro r, And I was having a blast , I only had to stop to take pictures or to help a fellow rider lift their adventure bike, I think most of the average Rider are still going to have a lot of limitations off road with a 450 lbs. Bike, but they are great road bikes , and for those few that are capable of dominate those beasts and getting the juice out of them off road.
I’ve ridden my KTM 690 on the TAT from Virginia to Utah. It’s a blast and performance is not a problem. Comfort is another thing. It sound like the T7 would have gone every where the 690 went off road and would be much more comfortable on road. I also enjoy trail riding but ride a KTM 300 on them and wouldn’t consider either of these bikes for that! Hard choices but it comes down to what you want to do with the bike.
I’m trying to choose between a T7, a lightly used 890 or a lightly used Africa Twin. At 210lbs and 6’1” I’m looking for something I can explore the woods of northern New England with, while still having the power and comfort to load up with some soft bags and travel 4 or 5 hours on the freeway into northern Maine or Canada. Anyone have any insight?
I got a kick out of the fuel range comparison while riding in Mexico and thought, "Actually the Tenere has more range because a wise, experienced KTM rider in Mexico wouldn't waste their money filling the tank knowing another breakdown is around the corner!" 🤣 Seriously, great review guys but you did miss 1 of the most important categories for comparing long distance Adventure bikes: reliability in tuned middle of nowhere. The KTM is no where near the Tenere.
The big question I always ask myself - Can I immediately take this bike out of the dealership, and with only adding protection and bags, can I take it around the planet and trust it to get me there? What are your feelings on long-term reliability for the Orange?
@@E-087 My Friends have had to many problems with their 790 To be called premium , its a great bike ,super suspension. But Travel alone is not un option. But that is My opinion. The tenere took Five years to develop. KTM releases a new bike every year! Almoast. Time to test?? Not so much, THE customer is the real tester. Good or bad ! ??🤔
Why do KTM riders often ride in hiker boots ???? They probebly have to walk home 😂😂😂 dont get me wrong Marvin! And i no about Ferrari vs Toyota .and maybe i Will try a 890 next year 👍
Which of these manufacturers wins more enduro championships than any other in the last 20 odd years? Hint: It’s not the manufacturer of the T7. It takes a tough/high performing bike to win a grueling endurance race.
@@freebehindbars8654 ktm. But the MT07 engine is still the most reliable motor. Ktm also won like the last 20 years of dakar, but if you read online a lot of people are having issues with these KTM’s which are nothing like their race bikes. For one thing they make more than 200 a year and don’t cost 40k for a bike platform.
@@IslandInsanity I’d agree the 60hp engine requires less maintenance to remain reliable, that being said, I’ve had plenty of KTM’s that have never left me stranded. I was raised on Honda monkey’s, 3 wheelers and then 4 wheelers, bc of the reliably power. As I got older, manufacturers build quality made leaps compared to the past. Also as I got older I realized how maintenance plays a key role in reliability and how high performance machines(any type) requires more attention to maintenance. If I was getting a bike to get me from A to B without concern of excitement, not check the oil and leave mud caked in the engine I’d definitely take the Yamaha. That’s not me or how I do it. This is why we have a nice selection of bikes that cover everyone. I’m in it for excitement, if I only cared about getting there I’d go out to my shop and pull out the the ‘85 Honda Big Red that still starts every time.
@@freebehindbars8654 oh if I was going for performance the KTM hands down, and for daily use they’re plenty reliable especially if you wrench on your own bike and maintain it well, but if you’re talking adv bikes that you want to take around the world the T7 is a fantastic option because of the reliable motor plus the simplicity and lack of electronics that can potentially leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. There’s nothing to the T7. No TC, no rider aides, just abs which can be turned off. And the tires are tubed, so all you need to carry is some tools for taking the tires off and some tubes and tube patch kit and you can go a long ways.
@@IslandInsanity Plenty of guys doing exactly that on KTM’s, without factory support. Circling the global. I’m not against a Yamaha, they make a damn good bike mostly built to a budget, but think other’s get their opinion or information from unverified people on the web. Most of the people in comment sections don’t own or have personal experience with the bikes they are speaking on. Have a good day.
If T7 offered cruise control, it would be a prefecture long distance bike. Otherwise I really like it - pure and simple. Modern looks with old school feel.
Whole lotta weight on that 790/890 platform (about 500lbs wet) ... with that said I've seen a pattern in the field of guys trading them in for Tenere's. When speaking to riders one of the main complaints about the 890 is low rev traction and an unsmooth throttle that cant be ridden around regardless of the chosen rider mode, while Tenere owners are loving the ability of their engine to lug smooth at low rpms and Yamahas anti-squat design really seems to be coming into play...especially for non pro riders!
these are the stories t7 owners make up to make themselves feel better. reality is factoring that 890 has 1.1 gallons of extra fuel, the weight difference is 12 lbs. 890 weighs 12 lbs more than t7. 790 weighs the same as t7. the low rev traction story is utter nonsense. another fabrication to make yourself feel better. have you actually ridden a 790/890 in technical terrain? even if your lugging story is true -it's not, 4 strokes are easier to lug than 2 strokes. how pro you see riding four strokes at ezberg or romaniacs?
Wet weight to wet weight is an easy 15-20 lbs, skip the gas tank games and just get the riding weight of both bikes...you'll see! 890 is a few pounds short of 500 ready to ride, the Yamaha is noticeably under that. There's been many ADV riders /racers that have specifically said the low rpm traction and unsmooth throttle applications (regardless of rider mode) is the 790/890 Achilles Tendon (Brake Magazines 890 review might be one you'd trust). Its not about fabrication or feeling better, its about understanding the strengths and weaknesses of two motorcycles and selecting the best one for you. FYI I'm not a Tenere or 890 owner but have ridden both. Currently I own a 2018 beta 500 rr-s and a 2019 beta 300rr (I know a bit about 2-strokes). In any event I'm in the market for an ADV bike and am leaning towards the Tenere! To each his own...just know what your needs are!!! Also check out Big Rock moto, he also just sold his 890 for a T7. God Bless!
@@robertrscott 890 Adventure is 464 wet and the T7 is 452. Now factor in the difference in performance for that 12 lbs difference. This engine and this frame makes it seem lighter than it really is. I traded a Street Triple RS for my 890 R, with the KTM being 6-8 lbs lighter, but feels way more. I suggest you throw your leg over and actually ride one, then you’ll see what I mean.
Cycle News thumbed up my weight comment for a reason...I'll give you a hint, its because they weighed the bike wet and gave the weight I told you in an 890 review video. Do you believe they haven't ridden the biike either? LOL, just go enjoy your ride!
Oddly,the stock wind screen on my 890R blows the windblast just over top of my helmet,and the seat is livable,better than most KTM seats for sure. I can go 255 miles before fuel should be found on the 890R. It wheelies in 3rd gear, in Rally mode......it wont spin the tire on dirt in Street mode............."890R cramped"....Im 6' tall,I stand up and the bars are almost too tall. I dont fell it being cramped.
Speaking of things exposed under the tank, I dropped my 790 on a dirt water-bar mid hill-climb and broke the plastic elbow fitting that connects the fuel line to the bottom of the fuel pump under the left tank lobe. Obviously it became unridable and i had to push it to a near by road to get picked up. I replaced it with an aluminum fitting and a guard that Rottweiler makes. I love my 790, but I would never ride one (or an 890) anywhere remote without upgrading the fitting or choosing a skid plate that covers the lobes (i.e. axp)
I am 1,88 m and the T700 is feeling like it was made for me. I am not very heavy at 86 kg but I had to upgrade the rear spring. I know what electronics mean and I am of the opinion that the T700 does not need any. I can say that after having riden 15 000 km on it, mainly adventure type offroad.
For the Tenere to be compared to the 890 and not the 690 shows you it is in a class of its own. I have seen a video where Adam Riemann tested a few adventure bikes and showed that hp means nothing off road only on tar there is a difference, weight is the key and then suspension.
Now that there is the updated 2023 KTM 890 Adventure standard is available, that medel is more comparable to the T7, albeit more advanced electronic wise, power wise, torque wise.
Even a base model f800gs years ago was $19,000 Australian . here in the UK that bike was £8.8k also a TH-cam girl had I prize of 50 Australian dollars it worked out around £26
I rode a T7,I rode an 890R. I tell you what the 95HP of the 890 seals the deal. The electrics? Yes. I use all the major settings for different uses. Needless to say I got the 890R. T7 sure feels top heavy? Little skinny seat. Wishy washy suspension....T7 may cost 10K but I would dump 5K in it easy. + None are available,not even a clue when one might show up.....Not good. That 95HP really makes the 890 Fun!
The problem with the T7 is how the weight is distributed. The low center of gravity on the 790/890 makes all the difference. Both on how it handles and when you pick it up from the ground.
Totally depends on the dealer. I've heard lots of stories of mediocre or outright poor support from some KTM dealers. I've got several within a reasonable distance and the closest is good, but not great. Another one that's 90 minutes away is amazing and that's why I opted to buy my bike there. Worth noting for some of the people on here looking for the T7, that dealer has been getting some of those in recently. Cycle City, Rochester, MN.
the only comparable thing about this two bikes is the rims size, everything else is so different that is confusing put them together to anyone who haven't tested both, are totally different bikes, from suspension, engine, riding position, breaking... the KTM is a much visceral bike than the T7, the T7 is softer, civilzed and silent.. the 890 is a kick in the nutz at 3 in the morning, thats how i describe it... agressive and visceral vs soft and quiet.
ELECTRONICS is not the the HOLY GRAIL, the point is learning to manage the bike you have, if you can't just get a less powerful one, there is no shame on that... it's like everyone wants a MOTOGP bike but they forget they are not pro riders so why have a 240hp bike if the electronics has to cut it down to 100hp to give you the illusion that you are managing the beast... TIME FOR A REALITY CHECK!.....just my 2 cents...
KTM is a no-brainer for me. The 890 is a phenomenal off-road bike. Weight distribution, suspension, and ride modes are very confidence inspiring. You can go harder on the KTM. Tenere can be made more off road capable with a KYB suspension upgrade, but it will end up costing the same and still fall short of the KTM's features. You wont have rally mode and are stuck with simple on-off ABS and MTC. If you have the $15K, just buy the KTM.
You said if all of the electronics fail on the KTM you would have T700. The truth is often times if the electronics fail the bike won’t start. The electronics will act as crutches. If they fail and the bike runs it could become dangerous.
Honestly, the Yamaha is way more realistic as far as adventure bikes go. How much do they cost to fix? I think this is a huge factor. The Yamaha 700 is the replacement for the KLR650 as far as reliability, cost-effective maintenance, comfort... a jack of all trades but a master of none. Weights are a huge factor as well. Lighter weight for the off-road trails. In conclusion, I think what I'm trying to say is that the 700 checks all the boxes plus some extra ones. Cost wise, you can't go wrong.
How about your opinion on this: I can buy a almost new KLM 790S (only 350 miles on it) for $11,000 or the T7 for $10,000. Which would you buy? Thanks, I enjoyed your video. I better add that I am 6"4", 185 pounds and this would be my first off-road motorcycle. Currently ride a Kawasaki Concours 14 and Kawasaki Ninja 12R and 14 before that.
They are not similar bikes at all imho. There is simply no comparison. I have a 790 and that is a better head to head or "vs". The 790 / 890 is thunderously more powerful. The T7 is a big dirt bike and fun as nuts to run offroad. Though a great discussion and clever banter, there is no reason this should be a "vs" as supposed to talking about 2 great bikes. The 890 will always be way more poweful, the T7 will always be a lot more fun - not to mention realiable. Side note: No need to eat your mic when you talk. It's blaring and cracks with earbuds.
@@bradsanders6954 Rethinking I should mention that I'm looking from the perspective of owning multiple bikes for different purposes. If I could only choose one then yea, I see why the extra HP would be paramount for road riding. However for somebody with a higher powered road bike already... might be a different choice.
In the UK there is less than £1500 difference in price between the two bikes. This was lower when the 790 was out. Yamaha initially realised the T700 at super low price for pre-order to get headlines. As soon as the pre-orders were filled they upped the price 15% For sure the Yamaha is good for a part-bin special. I would have liked to have seen a more comprehensive bike developed by Yamaha.
@@danielcanovas341 I liked the rally version of the T7 but at £10,295 with no traction control. A £4.99 argos calculator for a dash, and a petrol cap that's stays stuck to my keys unless I just leave it on the pump and it rolls away and a car runs over it. Let's just let yamaha address these first.
I had a T 7 for 6 months - for me it's a boring bike from the 90's. Sold it and got me a 790 Adventure R, 1 year old, with all necessary options (rally pack etc.) for the same price. And - the KTM never failed. Ok looks a bit weird, but it is the far better bike.
Great video and review!!! I was honestly hoping for a better result for KTM, but I get everything you guys are saying, just makes sense. So in the next three to five years, who is going to the leader in Adventure style bikes???
Seems to be a lot of bias opinions. I do not currently own a KTM or Tenere 700 but going to put a deposit on one in the near future. Have read and watched countless videos researching both and not easy at all when approached without a brand loyal or biased view. Although I have not ridden either one I have sat on, and closely looked at both bikes. I found the quality and finish is better on the KTM. The T7 is more simple which equates to reliability. HP and performance will always sacrifice reliability, but only to a degree. I disagree that KTM is an unreliable bike period. It may not be AS reliable, but not unreliable. KTM has won 18 of the last 20 Dakar rallies which is no easy feat and a record that is impressive. So far it seems the consensus is that the Yamaha is going to be better suited for newer riders or riders that have been there done that and just want a simple bike to ride and chill on. The KTM catering to the adrenaline junky that wants sheer performance and power. After a bunch of research I also agree these bikes are not comparable. Just wished I could decide which avenue to take? Cool and collective and bat shit crazy!
Awesome job on your reviews guys. You make the point far to many try so hard to ignore to justify maybe their brand name choice. When bikes are evolving with tech. there is nothing that is going to be bad about the options of using it if you like. I'm one of those that thought it was a waste on the ktm bike. But, wow, anyone will be very surprised the uses of its feature's when you surrender to the fight of it. The most amazing tech. feature that I never thought I would ever enjoy, and is never discussed, is,,,,Bluetooth. Holy crap, it is amazing to now travel my rides being able to adjust, control music. Take calls or at least see who it is bugging me on my rides. Probably the wife looking for me. We have different levels of what an adventure bike is. Its actually a label that has been stolen and used for selling bikes to everyone. Street adv. dirt adv. seems everything with street tires is now an adv. bike. But I have been waiting for a very fast, full offering rally type bike and the 790/890 absolutely killed it. For me. cheers.
O would like to see a test of a ktm 890 adv r, and a T7 with a 5000$ in extras. Thats a good test, for a 15000$ each bike. With 5000dls,its possible to do very much on a T7.
@@chrisredfield3240 its true. But i prefer the t7, because, dont have eletrónics, and have much more reliability, the maintenence is way easy. And i came from a ktm 990 adv. I like ktm. 5000$, you can upgrade the suspension, buy a 23L tank, make the t7 more powerful, and still have many dollars to buy fuel.
In Mexico T7 doesn’t worth the price value, cause it’s 12k vs 14k of the ktm or a tiger rally pro, so many people buy this bikes instead. If the T7 is no cheap as in the USA doesn’t make sense to get that bike for that poor performance
these 790/890 vs t7 comparisons are for t7 owners. notice that most all of the comments here are from ktm haters. ultimately, like one of the reviewers mentioned, these bikes are in completely different leagues. a typical 790/890 owner, like me, would never consider a t7. a 790/890 spanks a t7 in pretty much every situation. a typical t7 owner, who maybe concerned about money, likes these comparisons to justify how come she didn't buy the ktm. go ride and enjoy whatever you buy. no need to the hate. and enough with the ktm reliability story. that's old news. just buy your t7 and enjoy it. no need to justify not buying the ktm.
And why is that... As for him it's the sales of aftermarket parts, t7 needs plenty, also his tenere has had the rear cut up and rewelded for different shock and plenty of suspension mods.. What did the ktm need?
I don't think the price difference really matters. I don't have 10k the same as I don't have 14k. I finance my bike and pay it off. So if I gotta choose one I'm going 890. Which I did, by the way. Best machine I've ever ridden and the electronics have already saved my ass. I can ride it as fast as I want and I'd never attempt some of the shit I do on a similar bike lacking electronics.
OMG would somebody please tell Yamaha to stop comparing their bargain motorcycles to premium brand motorcycles. A person willing to pay double for a vehicle of their choice is not typically in the same class of people who are willing to pay half of what a premium vehicle would cost. Everyone loves a good deal but not at the cost of choosing something of lesser quality and features. I’m sure Yamaha makes great motorcycles but why so much money spent on marketing motorcycles that are supposed to sell themselves 🤔.
WAY overstated. Guys do lots of miles on 790/890 with no problems. Guys that dont have a KTM are the guys bitching about KTM's.....in reality the performance seals the deal. 890R.
I guess watch more of Chris birch. He BEATS the KTM ADVR up and it just rips. I suppose there’s probably issues maybe he doesn’t talk about but isn’t that all bikes?
KLR. Fuel injection, big tank, fairing, comfy seat, powerful enough, great mileage. Or....KTM 890! It's not much more than a T7. Especially when the dealer marks them up!
humm.. have not seen an ktm 790 or 890 at romaniacs. did see a t7. and no my skill aint that great at all. im no pol tarres. [joke] if you upgrade your suspension to the better performing ones, your still cheaper. Even more cheaper if you compare rally ktm version. not to mention there are fuel tank options that don't influence weight to much. t7 rally has a interesting tank idea, camel avd has one. acerbis has a more top heavy one. dont know all the options to upgrade/modify the ktm. and there shure are some. but if you take electronics away. is t really worth it ? why you might ask. well im that guy that would just put it in 1 mode and never touch it again. id love to own a 990avd
Good review guys but I do think you miss the biggest issue for those riders who do either lots of miles, go far from home or depend on their bike for something more than fun which is reliability. I'd be happy to pay twice as much for the performance of the KTM but the reality is for guys like me it will cost over 10x as much and I can't do that. Even if money was NO issue, you'll be the guy holding up the ride with some KTM glitch or broken down in a dangerous spot. 10 Times? The T7 (based on MT07) will probably give you 15,000 totally trouble free miles and 100,000 relatively good miles vs 2K and 20K for the KTM. My experience besides breaking down 5x as often? I used all free tows, swapped companies and went thru them again. You pay for extra nights on hotels for the breakdown and you'll need to start paying out of pocket for tows. You'll miss work if you count on it to show up where that's not true on the T7. Repairs will be more difficult and take 4x as long in remote areas; if you push KTM to get parts out faster they'll berate you for nolpt planning on their product breaking down in advance. (You guys probably wouldn't know that given your high profile position.) Friends with busy schedules will plan a riding weekend, the guy with the KTM will bring drama. There will be joy when the problem is fixed and the Kool aid will help most but not all forget the trip really was wrecked for all who came and they'll think it was a one off and start planning for next year. Since the Tenere will easily last 5x as long as the KTM I'd be happy to sink 10K into suspension etc. I'm curious what you would think of the off road comparrison between the 890 and the T7 with the best possible suspension upgrades to compliment its much longer life?
Let’s be honest, here is the appeal to the T7 for a lot of people right now: Unless KTM has fixed the laundry list of reoccurring problems on the 790 with the 890, all those fancy electronics, brakes, etc aren’t worth shit if they fail on the side of the trail and the bike is unrideable. No it doesn’t turn into a T7 if you lose traction control and abs, it turns into a paperweight with no power and goes into limp mode. That’s what I’m struggling with regarding the 890, simply don’t know if I can justify the extra performance and price if the bike isn’t reliable. If the 890 proves to be reliable long term it would be a the best bike in its class for off road, without a doubt. Awesome conversation though and you guys made a lot of good points in favor of both bikes. As with any conversation regarding an ADV, it all comes down to how you’re going to use and the type of riding you’re going to be doing, as well as your budget. Dollar for dollar, the T7 is the best value in the motorcycle industry right now in any category. Hands down. You guys nailed it with that one.
Thank you for the feedback!
I really want a KTM...but reliability issues are a huge issue for me as I want something reliable first, fun second (I have fun bikes already).
@@JoshuaTootell Yup, same here. But reliability and fun factor can, and should go hand in hand. All of the electronic rider aids in the world aren’t worth their weight in gold if they leave you stranded on the side of the trail. Especially on an ADV bike.
the reliability is so overstated. i have four ktms, including a 790 rally, and reliability has never been a concern and i don't baby the ktms. so, enough with the reliability story. it's an old story and the excuse that t7 like to use to hate the 790/890. notice that only t7 owners hate 790/890. 790/890 owners don't bother to hate t7.
@@damytzeus it’s not an old story, not even close. I’m not going to try to debate this with if you’re that clueless about all the problems KTM’s have had, and especially rejected warranty issues that are very clearly manufacturer failures. Yeah you haven’t had any problems with your 4 bikes, and that’s great, but if you do some research you’ll see you’re in the minority. Especially with regard to the 790, which is not an “old story”. Just watch this video. m.th-cam.com/video/SauochkRQE8/w-d-xo.html
You guys raised some good points. The T7 was a no-brainer for me at 192cm. Starting at $10k, the T7 is whatever you want it to be.
at 200cm i bought the T7 and upgraded the suspension. Love the T7
How do you like it on road? Does it have enough power to do some longer journeys on road as well?
Thx!
@@efremcalis5843 Yes it has enough power and rider comfort to do cross-country touring, but if that was the only kind of riding you did then there are plenty of road bikes that would do it better. The idea of the Tenere is that it can do that as well as tackle serious off-road.
I picked the T7. The motor. The balance. The ease of changing the oil and air filter. Suspension = good enough. My friends who both have the KTM's, both bikes have been in the shop with motor issues.
I have owned many bike brands.
Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda and a Yamaha. Now I have both an 890 adv R and the 890 duke.
I’ve enjoyed them all so much and learned a lot along the way.
My ADV R did have a tiny leak from new but dealer fixed right away and it’s been totally problem free and a thrill to ride. The duke has also been such a blast as well.
All the other bikes I’ve owned were wonderful too, but KTM ADVR has me always soooo excited to rip up the trails and enjoy the ride there and back.
T7 is definitely something I’d like to ride, but it doesn’t stir anything in me.
Thanks for the review guys!
Cheers Jordan
Well only one has Japanese reliability
"Around Gaia" travel bloggers but 40k on their tenere in about 3 years and only changed consumables (tyres, brake pads, chains, oil)
I test riden t7 and sorry, its slow.
@tadaseigerdas8040 104hp for the KTM vs 72.4 HP for the Tenere is a huge difference.
115 mph top speed and 4.5 second 0-60 stock isn’t slow dude.
That’s actually very fast, it’s not a sport bike it’s an offroad bike and you wont even go that fast offroad anyways.
I rode my European T7 17,000 km through the Alps and Dolomites this summer in three months. In the US I own a GS Adventure. I think I have the two most perfect bikes for what I do that can be had. The Yamaha is bullet proof. The Yamaha has torque everywhere. You can go around switchbacks at a 9% grade in second or third gear. It cannot be stalled. It can go 130 km/h all day. The BMW is an easy chair on the Highway. It can go 400 miles without a stop (I can’t!). It is easy to stall because it has no torque at 1,000 rpms. I don’t do real off road rocks. But I do every trail in the Alps and Dolomites and I would never attack them on the BMW. If I had to own just one motorcycle it would be the Yamaha which if I lived in the USAi would put a larger countershaft sprocket on.
Are you saying a T7 has more torque than a BMW GSA ?
I think the majority of riders will hit the ceiling of their own ability before the hitting the limits of the T7. To take full advantage of the KTM 890 one needs to be an expert rider. The reliability and parts availability make the Yamaha more appealing to me.
As a relatively new rider on adventure bikes(10 years on the street though), I ended up with an 890R because I couldn’t find a T7. I’ve already been in multiple situations this year where the suspension has been bottomed out, the ABS has saved my life, and the traction control has been a game changer on hill climbs. The quick shifter has been amazing on the street riding with crotch rockets.
Love the T7 as well, but not regretting being pushed to orange. 5’6, first year on an adventure bike and taking something 470 pounds off road.
Yamaha has no bikes available currently,and not many parts if any available. They are really stuck with supply line problems,maybe 2 years till it gets sorted out? Yamaha wouldnt even take my deposit on a T7. No idea when bikes will happen....so there's that.
@@bradsanders6954 I agree Brad. I’m on several wait lists with multiple dealers. None will take a deposit or place an order with Yamaha.
It’s mid October. I’ll live with my R.E. Himalayan until Spring. Hopefully we’ll begin to see 2022s after the first of the year and I’ll try to snag one. I’ll travel to another state if I have to.
Otherwise if one doesn’t come available by the time I sell my R.E. I guess I’ll be riding an 890 next year.
@@burkerow I kept my tricked out DR650 and bought an 890R. No test ride just bought it. Its the most fun bike Ive ever owned,an absolute riot. I laugh riding it and getting off it. Never had a street or dirt bike as fun as this one. Where ever I park it people want to know about it.
@@bradsanders6954 Thanks Brad.
I’ve done some international travel on motorcycles. I’ve ridden through 10 countries in SE Europe and have intentions of riding my new bike (when I buy one) to places like Mexico, Central and South America, the Stans ( Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc.). For that I want a simple, reliable bike with easy to obtain parts. I want a bike that anyone anywhere can work on.
All of that said, if I can’t snag a T7 by March, I’ll be riding “Orange” next Summer, at an extra cost of $4,000.
Great attitude and good discussion! 1190 adv r owner for 5 years, sold that, now have a Xr650l. Test rode the T7, really want the T7. Agree, the brakes on the T7 are soft, super soft. I wonder if a pad change would fix that.
I think MOST of these bikes spend very little time in truly gnarly off road situations. For those conditions, the T7 is the clear winner. It's superiority as an everyday motorcycle is more important that the KTMs superiority in those few situations in gnarly off-road riding.
On road? The 890R is a great streetbike,that's the deal. 95HP is a good thing. Wider seat. +Its good off road, Might be best to ride one. Ive got 2K miles on my 890R and it is addicting to ride.
This is where what we all think adventure bikes are changes considerably. 90% of my adventure riding is deep into the bush and knarly. I feed off performance. I need fuel range and comfort. The ktm wins for the right adventure rider. Great other options at different levels exist. AT, T7, klr . all different levels.
@@bradsanders6954 I agree....bought my 890r in March and have hit part of the Colorado bdr, Colorado trail systems and highways/windy roads and it is an all around fantastic bike. It handles amazing for it's size and weight and the power is top notch
@@2fly1974 Ive only got 2200 miles on mine,but it works great and is maybe the funnest bike Ive ever had. It cruises dirt and gravel roads about as easy as my tricked out DR650. The 890R is Really fun on tight curvy paved roads,it flies.
95HP VS 70 & WALMART SUSPENSION VS WP
Stellar review and conversation!!! Very balanced. I'd just add you skipped a little bit of the 890 glitches discussion. Both of my friends that own them have had their bikes back in the shop for warranty work, one of them has occasional fits of hard starting despite a lot of head scratching. I don't think they are quite as refined as the vibe here would indicate.
How is that repair doing? Some reliability reports put ktm in better place than bmw, and i only had few warranty problems with these motorcycles
Same problem my buddy is having with his brand new 890R - it’s hard to start in the morning. Once it warms up, it’s fine, but when it’s cold, it nearly kills the battery trying to turn it over. For a $15K bike with 800 miles on it, that’s pretty disappointing.
@@E-087 Don't know BMW's but these KTM's have some issues. Both that I'm familiar with. One of them has some water stuck in the TFT and KTM will warranty it but can't say if the new one will be any different.... when it come in hopefully by years end.
Best reviewers on TH-cam by far. Just perfect
I had a brief ride of a T7 and hated the way the clutch cover rubbed on my leg. I didn’t have boots on, probably would be OK then. Was recently at a Sydney dealer looking for another bike and mentioned the 790/890 to the sales guy. To which he smiled and noted the number of times they have had to replace the engines. And he sells them. By the way, KTM a owner here. I have a friend with a 790 Rally and now an 890 Rally- no problems apart from the fact that KTM had to replace the front wheel on his 790 due to out of balance problems.
A lot of people are talking about the reliability or lack there of with the KTM. I rode my 2019 KTM 1290 SAR to Los Cabos and back up to Wyoming. Both on and off road. Through all types of weather. The bike never missed a beat.
Same, I have the 890R and it's done some tough trips without any problems. I think some of the maintenance bashing when it comes to KTMs is based in reality (some of the early issues with the 790) and some is just what people who have never had a KTM say to make themselves sound/feel superior.
One thing you didn't mention is looks. I know they are subjective, but personally I think the T7 is a much more handsome bike. Between the looks and reliability, it was an easy decision for me and I don't regret it one bit. I love my Tenere 700.
The high gas tank looks good on the T7? Overall its a wonky looking thing,Yamaha didnt spend much on styling on the T7. "95HP"...It matters.
@@bradsanders6954
Adventure bikes generally look like crap, IMO, but I actually like the looks of the T7.
@@justsomedude445 yep, is that confusing to you?
@@bradsanders6954 it seems like most people disagree with you on looks. You know what else matters? Reliability. I'll enjoy riding my bike while yours is in the shop.
@@justsomedude445 lol, motorcycles are emotional purchases. People buy what moves them, including the looks. If you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you. I guess that makes sense if you are riding the KTM (kidding). I also get that looks are subjective.
I dont really think these 2 bikes are targetted for the same rider and so arent really comparable. Yeah theyre both adventure bikes but I reckon thats where the similarities end. Look at their main differences other than price: ergos, suspension, windscreen, motor characteristics, etc. I think its in these areas where it shows that perhaps KTM are going for riders who are transitioning slowly off mx or enduro bikes into adventure bikes, whereas the T7 is enticing the DR650 type of rider who is upgrading or to the more offroad adventurous adventure rider than say a Vstrom or GS. great discussion though 👍🏼
I am one of those guys that is slowly transitioning from dirt bikes to adventure/dual sports. A few riding buddies and myself test road these and the 790 and all of us picked the T7 as the favorite. It’s much more “dirt bike” like
@@PBstx1100 interesting to know how you and your mates went with the T7. Thanks for the reply
Great vid!
Offtopic, but can anyone tell what pants are those at 19:14 ? I need to get a new pair for myself.
In light colour... grey/white for the reason not to get burnt during the summer's sun heat.
Cheers
Yamaha for the win and for the longer life and reliability. The extra money I saved I can use to make it as awesome as extra money savings can buy. If you have the money to spend and only want the best of course the KTM is the right choice, both are amazing neither is a bad choice.
Yes I also would pick the Yam
They are not even in the same league.
@@freebehindbars8654 def your right Yamaha way better
@@pappaclutch3266 Matter of opinion. Those with Yamaha money will buy a Yamaha, those that can afford the KTM will get it, especially after a back to back ride. The performance is not in the same league. Both are good bikes and will do everything you ask, just depends on the experience/excitement you want out of it.
@@freebehindbars8654 Price is not the only reason to choose a T7. Reliability aside, a modified T7 with top shelf suspension and a diet can weigh 30kgs less and be easier to handle off-road, especially in sand and loose terrain.
I have had the Tenere for a year and I can get 200 miles easy. To me the Tenere is a better value because of engine reliability.
Although the KTM carries more fuel than the Yami, do they both do OK on lower octane petrol? I'm still not convinced that the KTM won't let me down in the bush. I'll go for Japanese reliability for a bike that I can depend on. Thanks for the great, informed comparison, backed by deep riding experience!
We always run 91 octane in our test bikes
If the price was the same for the t7 and 890r what would you get ?
What a great time to be in the market for this kind of bike! Can't go wrong with either of these, imo - just depends on which one moves you...
There's room for improvement on the Tenere. I would like to see an updated version with a configuration similar to the WRF250 where the air filter is where the tank would be, and the fuel relocated to under the seat. That would bring the weight down the center of gravity and right in between the legs, which would make it as nimble as the KTM. Also, relocating the exhaust higher and with a different anchor point would be awesome. They could call this version the Tenere Adventure. These changes would help bridge the gap in performance between these bikes.
Your talking about a complete different motorcycle with those changes. The 890R already has all that plus electrics that work great in varied conditions,and WP suspension,and tubeless wheels.....guys like to think all KTM's break? But they dont. And boy is my 890 fun,cant stop laughing after a good ride. HP matters.
+20 HP , 20% better suspension, 20 pounds lighter, and the tenere would be hard to beat. Electronics not needed! Its all in your wrist
@@bradsanders6954 Agree! :-)
I own a modded up 790 (fuel controller, exhaust changes, WP Pro suspension, single caliper up front, aftermarket wheels, etc). I also own a modded up T700 (Fuel controller, exhaust changes, after market fork cartridges & shock, single caliper up front, aftermarket wheels, etc). Both are great. From a performance standpoint the T700 is better in the gnarly stuff and the KTM is better at speed. Point being even with a 50% (+) cost difference nothing is set in stone as to which is better. I love the 790 when I want to ride fast like a screaming banshee with my hair on fire. I love my T700 when I want to billy goat up something that is pushing my personal limits. They are very very different bikes.
Saw a t7 in the wild yesterday in Northern Mn on I35. Rider looked happy..
Vertically challenged at 5-9 and money wasn't an issue. 22k miles and the only issue I have had was a flat tire....Great review gents!
Big fan of KTM performance characteristics but would like to see more consistent quality out of this platform. My 2019 690 Enduro R has been stellar and 100 lbs. less weight than either of these bikes. That said I am giving up on-road comfort, range and hauling capacity.
Agreed that the 690 is better in more extreme off-road conditions but like you said, both of these twins are a lot more comfortable if you want/need to do much highway mileage.
Great video and interesting points, I just got back from doing the Alpine loops in Colorado on my 2019 690 Enduro r, And I was having a blast , I only had to stop to take pictures or to help a fellow rider lift their adventure bike, I think most of the average Rider are still going to have a lot of limitations off road with a 450 lbs. Bike, but they are great road bikes , and for those few that are capable of dominate those beasts and getting the juice out of them off road.
I’ve ridden my KTM 690 on the TAT from Virginia to Utah. It’s a blast and performance is not a problem. Comfort is another thing.
It sound like the T7 would have gone every where the 690 went off road and would be much more comfortable on road. I also enjoy trail riding but ride a KTM 300 on them and wouldn’t consider either of these bikes for that!
Hard choices but it comes down to what you want to do with the bike.
Pol Torres makes the T7 look unstoppable
I’m trying to choose between a T7, a lightly used 890 or a lightly used Africa Twin. At 210lbs and 6’1” I’m looking for something I can explore the woods of northern New England with, while still having the power and comfort to load up with some soft bags and travel 4 or 5 hours on the freeway into northern Maine or Canada. Anyone have any insight?
I got a kick out of the fuel range comparison while riding in Mexico and thought, "Actually the Tenere has more range because a wise, experienced KTM rider in Mexico wouldn't waste their money filling the tank knowing another breakdown is around the corner!" 🤣
Seriously, great review guys but you did miss 1 of the most important categories for comparing long distance Adventure bikes: reliability in tuned middle of nowhere.
The KTM is no where near the Tenere.
The big question I always ask myself - Can I immediately take this bike out of the dealership, and with only adding protection and bags, can I take it around the planet and trust it to get me there? What are your feelings on long-term reliability for the Orange?
Yes, I can't see having this comparison without discussing reliability.
Thank you for being honest
KTM is premium on paper!! But in the real world , not so much.....
Why?
@@E-087 My Friends have had to many problems with their 790 To be called premium , its a great bike ,super suspension. But Travel alone is not un option. But that is My opinion. The tenere took Five years to develop. KTM releases a new bike every year! Almoast. Time to test?? Not so much, THE customer is the real tester. Good or bad ! ??🤔
Why do KTM riders often ride in hiker boots ???? They probebly have to walk home 😂😂😂 dont get me wrong Marvin! And i no about Ferrari vs Toyota .and maybe i Will try a 890 next year 👍
Reliability, that’s why you get the yamaha. That motor is the most reliable on the market. If you’re going far that means more than performance.
Which of these manufacturers wins more enduro championships than any other in the last 20 odd years? Hint: It’s not the manufacturer of the T7. It takes a tough/high performing bike to win a grueling endurance race.
@@freebehindbars8654 ktm. But the MT07 engine is still the most reliable motor. Ktm also won like the last 20 years of dakar, but if you read online a lot of people are having issues with these KTM’s which are nothing like their race bikes. For one thing they make more than 200 a year and don’t cost 40k for a bike platform.
@@IslandInsanity I’d agree the 60hp engine requires less maintenance to remain reliable, that being said, I’ve had plenty of KTM’s that have never left me stranded. I was raised on Honda monkey’s, 3 wheelers and then 4 wheelers, bc of the reliably power. As I got older, manufacturers build quality made leaps compared to the past. Also as I got older I realized how maintenance plays a key role in reliability and how high performance machines(any type) requires more attention to maintenance. If I was getting a bike to get me from A to B without concern of excitement, not check the oil and leave mud caked in the engine I’d definitely take the Yamaha. That’s not me or how I do it. This is why we have a nice selection of bikes that cover everyone. I’m in it for excitement, if I only cared about getting there I’d go out to my shop and pull out the the ‘85 Honda Big Red that still starts every time.
@@freebehindbars8654 oh if I was going for performance the KTM hands down, and for daily use they’re plenty reliable especially if you wrench on your own bike and maintain it well, but if you’re talking adv bikes that you want to take around the world the T7 is a fantastic option because of the reliable motor plus the simplicity and lack of electronics that can potentially leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. There’s nothing to the T7. No TC, no rider aides, just abs which can be turned off. And the tires are tubed, so all you need to carry is some tools for taking the tires off and some tubes and tube patch kit and you can go a long ways.
@@IslandInsanity Plenty of guys doing exactly that on KTM’s, without factory support. Circling the global. I’m not against a Yamaha, they make a damn good bike mostly built to a budget, but think other’s get their opinion or information from unverified people on the web. Most of the people in comment sections don’t own or have personal experience with the bikes they are speaking on. Have a good day.
If T7 offered cruise control, it would be a prefecture long distance bike. Otherwise I really like it - pure and simple. Modern looks with old school feel.
Thanks for your video, it's really good information, bye from Aranjuez (Madrid)
Have you ever noticed how many expert motorcycle engineers and marketing directors comment on motorcycle review’s and comparison’s
I chose the T7
Whole lotta weight on that 790/890 platform (about 500lbs wet) ... with that said I've seen a pattern in the field of guys trading them in for Tenere's. When speaking to riders one of the main complaints about the 890 is low rev traction and an unsmooth throttle that cant be ridden around regardless of the chosen rider mode, while Tenere owners are loving the ability of their engine to lug smooth at low rpms and Yamahas anti-squat design really seems to be coming into play...especially for non pro riders!
these are the stories t7 owners make up to make themselves feel better. reality is factoring that 890 has 1.1 gallons of extra fuel, the weight difference is 12 lbs. 890 weighs 12 lbs more than t7. 790 weighs the same as t7. the low rev traction story is utter nonsense. another fabrication to make yourself feel better. have you actually ridden a 790/890 in technical terrain? even if your lugging story is true -it's not, 4 strokes are easier to lug than 2 strokes. how pro you see riding four strokes at ezberg or romaniacs?
Wet weight to wet weight is an easy 15-20 lbs, skip the gas tank games and just get the riding weight of both bikes...you'll see! 890 is a few pounds short of 500 ready to ride, the Yamaha is noticeably under that. There's been many ADV riders /racers that have specifically said the low rpm traction and unsmooth throttle applications (regardless of rider mode) is the 790/890 Achilles Tendon (Brake Magazines 890 review might be one you'd trust). Its not about fabrication or feeling better, its about understanding the strengths and weaknesses of two motorcycles and selecting the best one for you. FYI I'm not a Tenere or 890 owner but have ridden both. Currently I own a 2018 beta 500 rr-s and a 2019 beta 300rr (I know a bit about 2-strokes). In any event I'm in the market for an ADV bike and am leaning towards the Tenere! To each his own...just know what your needs are!!! Also check out Big Rock moto, he also just sold his 890 for a T7. God Bless!
@@robertrscott 890 Adventure is 464 wet and the T7 is 452. Now factor in the difference in performance for that 12 lbs difference. This engine and this frame makes it seem lighter than it really is. I traded a Street Triple RS for my 890 R, with the KTM being 6-8 lbs lighter, but feels way more. I suggest you throw your leg over and actually ride one, then you’ll see what I mean.
Cycle News thumbed up my weight comment for a reason...I'll give you a hint, its because they weighed the bike wet and gave the weight I told you in an 890 review video. Do you believe they haven't ridden the biike either? LOL, just go enjoy your ride!
@@robertrscott WGAS if they like it 😂 I just gave you the wet numbers, the numbers you said were way off. Get a lot more bike with that 12 lbs.
Oddly,the stock wind screen on my 890R blows the windblast just over top of my helmet,and the seat is livable,better than most KTM seats for sure. I can go 255 miles before fuel should be found on the 890R. It wheelies in 3rd gear, in Rally mode......it wont spin the tire on dirt in Street mode............."890R cramped"....Im 6' tall,I stand up and the bars are almost too tall. I dont fell it being cramped.
Speaking of things exposed under the tank, I dropped my 790 on a dirt water-bar mid hill-climb and broke the plastic elbow fitting that connects the fuel line to the bottom of the fuel pump under the left tank lobe.
Obviously it became unridable and i had to push it to a near by road to get picked up. I replaced it with an aluminum fitting and a guard that Rottweiler makes.
I love my 790, but I would never ride one (or an 890) anywhere remote without upgrading the fitting or choosing a skid plate that covers the lobes (i.e. axp)
ıt isgreat review guys.thx.I just wonder whic brand camera you used to record yourself.itlooks really nice. thx.
I read someone comment that said, "The T7 requires you to be a better rider."
I am 1,88 m and the T700 is feeling like it was made for me. I am not very heavy at 86 kg but I had to upgrade the rear spring. I know what electronics mean and I am of the opinion that the T700 does not need any. I can say that after having riden 15 000 km on it, mainly adventure type offroad.
For the Tenere to be compared to the 890 and not the 690 shows you it is in a class of its own. I have seen a video where Adam Riemann tested a few adventure bikes and showed that hp means nothing off road only on tar there is a difference, weight is the key and then suspension.
Now that there is the updated 2023 KTM 890 Adventure standard is available, that medel is more comparable to the T7, albeit more advanced electronic wise, power wise, torque wise.
$18,000 compared to $25,000 here is Australia, too much difference for me, going the T7
Even a base model f800gs years ago was $19,000 Australian . here in the UK that bike was £8.8k also a TH-cam girl had I prize of 50 Australian dollars it worked out around £26
I rode a T7,I rode an 890R. I tell you what the 95HP of the 890 seals the deal. The electrics? Yes. I use all the major settings for different uses. Needless to say I got the 890R. T7 sure feels top heavy? Little skinny seat. Wishy washy suspension....T7 may cost 10K but I would dump 5K in it easy. + None are available,not even a clue when one might show up.....Not good. That 95HP really makes the 890 Fun!
I know from the fb groups I’m in that owners were out the door at $15k for the T7….it is 2022 though, supply and demand is wild right now.
The problem with the T7 is how the weight is distributed. The low center of gravity on the 790/890 makes all the difference. Both on how it handles and when you pick it up from the ground.
Great Review i have money down on the Tenere
How are KTM dealers from a service and support perspective?
Totally depends on the dealer. I've heard lots of stories of mediocre or outright poor support from some KTM dealers. I've got several within a reasonable distance and the closest is good, but not great. Another one that's 90 minutes away is amazing and that's why I opted to buy my bike there.
Worth noting for some of the people on here looking for the T7, that dealer has been getting some of those in recently. Cycle City, Rochester, MN.
the only comparable thing about this two bikes is the rims size, everything else is so different that is confusing put them together to anyone who haven't tested both, are totally different bikes, from suspension, engine, riding position, breaking... the KTM is a much visceral bike than the T7, the T7 is softer, civilzed and silent.. the 890 is a kick in the nutz at 3 in the morning, thats how i describe it... agressive and visceral vs soft and quiet.
ELECTRONICS is not the the HOLY GRAIL, the point is learning to manage the bike you have, if you can't just get a less powerful one, there is no shame on that... it's like everyone wants a MOTOGP bike but they forget they are not pro riders so why have a 240hp bike if the electronics has to cut it down to 100hp to give you the illusion that you are managing the beast... TIME FOR A REALITY CHECK!.....just my 2 cents...
KTM is a no-brainer for me. The 890 is a phenomenal off-road bike. Weight distribution, suspension, and ride modes are very confidence inspiring. You can go harder on the KTM. Tenere can be made more off road capable with a KYB suspension upgrade, but it will end up costing the same and still fall short of the KTM's features. You wont have rally mode and are stuck with simple on-off ABS and MTC. If you have the $15K, just buy the KTM.
Good point
You said if all of the electronics fail on the KTM you would have T700. The truth is often times if the electronics fail the bike won’t start. The electronics will act as crutches. If they fail and the bike runs it could become dangerous.
The comparison should be to the 890 adventure not the 890 R. How does the T-7 compare to the 890 adventure.
Honestly, the Yamaha is way more realistic as far as adventure bikes go.
How much do they cost to fix? I think this is a huge factor. The Yamaha 700 is the replacement for the KLR650 as far as reliability, cost-effective maintenance, comfort... a jack of all trades but a master of none.
Weights are a huge factor as well. Lighter weight for the off-road trails.
In conclusion, I think what I'm trying to say is that the 700 checks all the boxes plus some extra ones. Cost wise, you can't go wrong.
How about your opinion on this: I can buy a almost new KLM 790S (only 350 miles on it) for $11,000 or the T7 for $10,000. Which would you buy? Thanks, I enjoyed your video. I better add that I am 6"4", 185 pounds and this would be my first off-road motorcycle. Currently ride a Kawasaki Concours 14 and Kawasaki Ninja 12R and 14 before that.
You can't buy either motorcycle for MSRP. The local Yamaha dealer quoted me $1583 in dealer fees! Before taxes.
They are not similar bikes at all imho. There is simply no comparison. I have a 790 and that is a better head to head or "vs". The 790 / 890 is thunderously more powerful. The T7 is a big dirt bike and fun as nuts to run offroad. Though a great discussion and clever banter, there is no reason this should be a "vs" as supposed to talking about 2 great bikes. The 890 will always be way more poweful, the T7 will always be a lot more fun - not to mention realiable.
Side note: No need to eat your mic when you talk. It's blaring and cracks with earbuds.
Then why not go for the 1290 Adventure R?
If 100HP is great, 160HP should be better.
Almost double the weight and double the price of the yamaha.
If 🤷♂️ according to rumours, KTM launch the 490SE, it could be a game changer. Less weight than these two and more than enough hp.
Funny they dont mention the 65HP as compared to the 95HP on the austrian steed. It matters.
some still prefer the Yamaha's reliability... not the end of the world.
@@robertrscott Just dont ride an 890R,it wouldnt be a good idea.
@@bradsanders6954 cause you say so? lol... Please
@@robertrscott Its cause 95HP is so much fun its addicting. LOL. Please. 65HP just doesnt quite get it on road.
@@bradsanders6954 Rethinking I should mention that I'm looking from the perspective of owning multiple bikes for different purposes. If I could only choose one then yea, I see why the extra HP would be paramount for road riding. However for somebody with a higher powered road bike already... might be a different choice.
Where can i read the review?
magazine.cyclenews.com/i/1414541-cycle-news-2021-issue-39-september-28/84?
And...!, For me the winer is Yamaha T7...!, Is the really trail 50 & 50...!
Put good suspension on the Tenere change out the exhaust to drop weight, tubeless rims etc. Your at 13k or more
In the UK there is less than £1500 difference in price between the two bikes. This was lower when the 790 was out. Yamaha initially realised the T700 at super low price for pre-order to get headlines. As soon as the pre-orders were filled they upped the price 15% For sure the Yamaha is good for a part-bin special. I would have liked to have seen a more comprehensive bike developed by Yamaha.
I'm in the UK and just paid less for my 890 S with tech pack than a new tenere 700
@@danielcanovas341 I liked the rally version of the T7 but at £10,295 with no traction control. A £4.99 argos calculator for a dash, and a petrol cap that's stays stuck to my keys unless I just leave it on the pump and it rolls away and a car runs over it. Let's just let yamaha address these first.
I had a T 7 for 6 months - for me it's a boring bike from the 90's. Sold it and got me a 790 Adventure R, 1 year old, with all necessary options (rally pack etc.) for the same price. And - the KTM never failed. Ok looks a bit weird, but it is the far better bike.
Great video and review!!! I was honestly hoping for a better result for KTM, but I get everything you guys are saying, just makes sense. So in the next three to five years, who is going to the leader in Adventure style bikes???
I think after 100000 miles the Tenere will be the only one still competing.
Get one of each! I did.
Nice!
The T7 is not such a bargain in the UK now Yamaha charge £9500 say $13000. But we do get healthcare included
Free at point of use but we pay a load in national insurance. So we certainly pay for it. And 12 million on the waiting list.
Seems to be a lot of bias opinions. I do not currently own a KTM or Tenere 700 but going to put a deposit on one in the near future. Have read and watched countless videos researching both and not easy at all when approached without a brand loyal or biased view. Although I have not ridden either one I have sat on, and closely looked at both bikes. I found the quality and finish is better on the KTM. The T7 is more simple which equates to reliability. HP and performance will always sacrifice reliability, but only to a degree. I disagree that KTM is an unreliable bike period. It may not be AS reliable, but not unreliable. KTM has won 18 of the last 20 Dakar rallies which is no easy feat and a record that is impressive. So far it seems the consensus is that the Yamaha is going to be better suited for newer riders or riders that have been there done that and just want a simple bike to ride and chill on. The KTM catering to the adrenaline junky that wants sheer performance and power. After a bunch of research I also agree these bikes are not comparable. Just wished I could decide which avenue to take? Cool and collective and bat shit crazy!
The 790 is a closer comparison to the T700, and even that has more displacement than the Yamaha.
Awesome job on your reviews guys. You make the point far to many try so hard to ignore to justify maybe their brand name choice. When bikes are evolving with tech. there is nothing that is going to be bad about the options of using it if you like. I'm one of those that thought it was a waste on the ktm bike. But, wow, anyone will be very surprised the uses of its feature's when you surrender to the fight of it. The most amazing tech. feature that I never thought I would ever enjoy, and is never discussed, is,,,,Bluetooth. Holy crap, it is amazing to now travel my rides being able to adjust, control music. Take calls or at least see who it is bugging me on my rides. Probably the wife looking for me. We have different levels of what an adventure bike is. Its actually a label that has been stolen and used for selling bikes to everyone. Street adv. dirt adv. seems everything with street tires is now an adv. bike. But I have been waiting for a very fast, full offering rally type bike and the 790/890 absolutely killed it. For me. cheers.
Is the Modern day KTMs are un reliable as people think they were in the past...🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
O would like to see a test of a ktm 890 adv r, and a T7 with a 5000$ in extras. Thats a good test, for a 15000$ each bike.
With 5000dls,its possible to do very much on a T7.
The T7 will still have a lot less power and no electronics
@@chrisredfield3240 its true. But i prefer the t7, because, dont have eletrónics, and have much more reliability, the maintenence is way easy. And i came from a ktm 990 adv. I like ktm. 5000$, you can upgrade the suspension, buy a 23L tank, make the t7 more powerful, and still have many dollars to buy fuel.
Did you guys forget about the BMW f800gs from 2008-2015 that bike wasn't $16k
In Mexico T7 doesn’t worth the price value, cause it’s 12k vs 14k of the ktm or a tiger rally pro, so many people buy this bikes instead. If the T7 is no cheap as in the USA doesn’t make sense to get that bike for that poor performance
The Price is Not Importend of u warnt the best bike there, sorry but the t7 is Not a Match to the 890r
these 790/890 vs t7 comparisons are for t7 owners. notice that most all of the comments here are from ktm haters. ultimately, like one of the reviewers mentioned, these bikes are in completely different leagues. a typical 790/890 owner, like me, would never consider a t7. a 790/890 spanks a t7 in pretty much every situation. a typical t7 owner, who maybe concerned about money, likes these comparisons to justify how come she didn't buy the ktm. go ride and enjoy whatever you buy. no need to the hate. and enough with the ktm reliability story. that's old news. just buy your t7 and enjoy it. no need to justify not buying the ktm.
Go checkout Camel ADV's 790 vs T7 field test. Yes, he chose the T7 too!
And why is that... As for him it's the sales of aftermarket parts, t7 needs plenty, also his tenere has had the rear cut up and rewelded for different shock and plenty of suspension mods.. What did the ktm need?
@@jamescummings4130 its all opinion, ride what you like but know its not the choice of everyone...no big deal.
Don't get either get a 701 or 690. Both those are pigs
@@justsomedude445 fairings are lame, if your going offroad, don't you want to enjoy that part?
I don't think the price difference really matters. I don't have 10k the same as I don't have 14k. I finance my bike and pay it off. So if I gotta choose one I'm going 890. Which I did, by the way. Best machine I've ever ridden and the electronics have already saved my ass. I can ride it as fast as I want and I'd never attempt some of the shit I do on a similar bike lacking electronics.
clack, clack, clack..is that the sound of the T7 bottoming out in potholes, or it's cheap parts falling off?
I wouldn't want to ride either of these bikes on our VT trails! Way too heavy.
In Ukraine they both cost around $14k. That’s so messed up, Yamaha looks way better. But Tenere is not worth 14k.
OMG would somebody please tell Yamaha to stop comparing their bargain motorcycles to premium brand motorcycles. A person willing to pay double for a vehicle of their choice is not typically in the same class of people who are willing to pay half of what a premium vehicle would cost. Everyone loves a good deal but not at the cost of choosing something of lesser quality and features. I’m sure Yamaha makes great motorcycles but why so much money spent on marketing motorcycles that are supposed to sell themselves 🤔.
Those guys are with Cycle News. Not Yamaha.
Back off your mic a bit
Wow, the Yamaha is a challenge to KTM because of RELIABILITY..., not just price!
One thing the Tenere wont have that the KTM seems to have in spades, is the outrages issues that crop up with the 790/890.
WAY overstated. Guys do lots of miles on 790/890 with no problems. Guys that dont have a KTM are the guys bitching about KTM's.....in reality the performance seals the deal. 890R.
@@bradsanders6954 well not bitching about them, I work in a dealer with KTM as well as Yamaha and Honda. So have seen pretty much all the issues.
I guess watch more of Chris birch. He BEATS the KTM ADVR up and it just rips.
I suppose there’s probably issues maybe he doesn’t talk about but isn’t that all bikes?
I would be anxious out in the bush with a fully electronic motorcycle.
KLR. Fuel injection, big tank, fairing, comfy seat, powerful enough, great mileage. Or....KTM 890! It's not much more than a T7. Especially when the dealer marks them up!
Performance performance performance .That does not make it better.Reliability is more important than performance.
humm.. have not seen an ktm 790 or 890 at romaniacs. did see a t7. and no my skill aint that great at all. im no pol tarres. [joke]
if you upgrade your suspension to the better performing ones, your still cheaper. Even more cheaper if you compare rally ktm version.
not to mention there are fuel tank options that don't influence weight to much. t7 rally has a interesting tank idea, camel avd has one. acerbis has a more top heavy one.
dont know all the options to upgrade/modify the ktm. and there shure are some. but if you take electronics away. is t really worth it ?
why you might ask. well im that guy that would just put it in 1 mode and never touch it again.
id love to own a 990avd
yamaha´s reliability is a huge point to think about....
Good review guys but I do think you miss the biggest issue for those riders who do either lots of miles, go far from home or depend on their bike for something more than fun which is reliability.
I'd be happy to pay twice as much for the performance of the KTM but the reality is for guys like me it will cost over 10x as much and I can't do that. Even if money was NO issue, you'll be the guy holding up the ride with some KTM glitch or broken down in a dangerous spot.
10 Times? The T7 (based on MT07) will probably give you 15,000 totally trouble free miles and 100,000 relatively good miles vs 2K and 20K for the KTM. My experience besides breaking down 5x as often? I used all free tows, swapped companies and went thru them again. You pay for extra nights on hotels for the breakdown and you'll need to start paying out of pocket for tows. You'll miss work if you count on it to show up where that's not true on the T7. Repairs will be more difficult and take 4x as long in remote areas; if you push KTM to get parts out faster they'll berate you for nolpt planning on their product breaking down in advance. (You guys probably wouldn't know that given your high profile position.)
Friends with busy schedules will plan a riding weekend, the guy with the KTM will bring drama. There will be joy when the problem is fixed and the Kool aid will help most but not all forget the trip really was wrecked for all who came and they'll think it was a one off and start planning for next year.
Since the Tenere will easily last 5x as long as the KTM I'd be happy to sink 10K into suspension etc. I'm curious what you would think of the off road comparrison between the 890 and the T7 with the best possible suspension upgrades to compliment its much longer life?
Totally agree. And if your need fuel capacity, acerbis has a tank with 23 liters which fits on the bike and gives you more miles than the KTM.
I think I wanna be a spoiled brat
Ktm Yes better but makes riding bs
KTM fanboys
I wouldn't buy either. KTM is wayyyyyy too expensive and wayyyyyyy too complicated (and it has ride-by-wire, which I FU
Excelente Maquina KTM 890 ADV !! Esta es la mia: th-cam.com/video/gj81NDu8KGQ/w-d-xo.html