If you want to check out translated versions of the Sonic Channel stories, check out Windii's blog: browniehideout.wordpress.com/category/translations/side-stories/
In my personal opinion, I would have to disagree with your opinion on the IDW Sonic, I personally find him to be very kind-hearted and heroic, like having his own way to do the right thing instead of just something bold and dumb
Sonic X is my Sonic. A drifter but unable to stand by and watch when trouble strikes or even a paraplegic girl wants to go see flowers. He’s such a Chad in that show
Can I also add that Sonic in that show wasn't actually insufferable with the cockiness - dude like spending time alone, watching the view and just embracing peace and quiet Of course, I'm talking abt Jap ver, 4Kids have a tendency to butcher characters in their dialogs
I literally cannot put into words how perfect that little rewrite between Sonic and Sage was. THAT is Sonic! THAT is what we've been missing. Those short, concise interactions that speaks for itself. "It's ok to be sad, it means you're alive". Phenomenal. Perfect. Genuinely fantastic. You don't need long-winded speeches about freedom and goodness to write Sonic. You just need the actions that define him, that troubles that overwhelmed the new character of that game, and Sonic saying a line or two that challenges their worldview, bringing that character out of the lie in their head and to the truth of who they really are. In fact, by having Sonic give speeches like that, you are actively taking away from the other characters. All of the actions and dialogue to become developed is substituted by using Sonic's words as a crutch, instead of showing the character learning from his example. Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, etc are all fan favs because they followed this formula. But newer characters like Sage, The Forces OC, Surge, etc are stripped of the opportunity to learn and grow in their own way, because Sonic verbally does the work for them.
That re-wright in this video gave ME the impression that he just doesn't care... If he doesn't care about things like that, than why should I care about him? that's the same feeling that i got while watching Sonic X too. Free spirited little rodent that don't give a crap about anything or anyone. "As free as the wind!" Well, that Doesn't Give me anything to relate to. it just means that if I were to meet him irl, I won't be able to connect with him through conversation. He'd be a fast blue wall of 'screw you!' Well if that's all i'm getting, then 'screw you' back little hog, I'm out! Sorry, that was Condescending... But you get my point, right? When Sonic was like that, he didn't feel like he had much heart to him. So when he DID do something good and or sweet for someone, it didn't feel that genuine - or at least not to me. ... Being vulnerable and talking about your thoughts and feelings is uncomfortable - sometimes even hurtful. it's natural to be scared to do that with someone. But if you are SO scared of doing it, that you can't even Express those things to your BEST Friend in the ENTIRE World!? ... congratulations, your character has now become lifeless! ... and we're back to the Condescending tone... oops... I also don't know how else to word it, soo.......there we go
@@Dmarkea315 People don’t need to go on whole monologues to express themselves or that they even care, in fact, Sonic used it to not need a single word to express his care. He payed no mind to Tails following him and didn’t protest to Tails piloting his biplane, he stayed with Knuckles after Eggman betrayed him and stole the Master Emerald, he ran up to a chained Little Planet and eventually rescued Amy all without a second thought. In Sonic X, he saw Cream’s homesickness and ran miles to pick the best flowers he could find for her to make trinkets and accessories like she would with Vanilla. Sonic’s truly a man of action, so his actions will always speak far louder than his words. Of course, someone more patient would stick around longer and try to talk about their feelings, that’s what characters like Tails and Amy are better at. For more fast paced characters like Sonic or Shadow, they wouldn’t stick around at all if they truly didn’t care.
@@God-xd1wr I suppose.. but doesn't a huge part of connecting with others come from communication? If he doesn't say his reasoning or intentions out loud ever, than how is anyone going to understand him? How will any misunderstandings be resolved? I mean sure, actions can speak louder than words, but there also comes a certain point where if you don't clarify to others what you're trying to do, then they're going to assume the worst of you and act on that. An' that will always damage a relationship. Constantly making Sarcastic comments and jokes really doesn't help either. As funny as it makes Sonic, all it does is make it that much harder to take him seriously, because what he says ain't ever what he means, while the doubts and misunderstandings on exactly what he does and why just pile up even further. If the Hedgehog goes long enough without making that clarification and understanding happen, then he's gonna become a fairly lonely guy - no matter how many people he saves.
ironically, I think the reason why sonic feels out of place all of a sudden is because he's.. compassionate now? at least when you look at it on the surface level. sonic was never the type of character to talk about his true emotions extensively, nor is he the kind of guy to have a specific overarching goal in mind. he just.. does what he wants. and part of what he wants is to simply be and feel alive the way HE wants to be. even if the situation is dire, even in the worst of times. and that simply extends to his exterior. he doesn't complement his friends or say things like "yeah, I believe in you", instead when the time comes.. he'd just smile at them before running off on his own to chase the main big threat, leaving his friends to deal with the enemy because he believes in them that much, without the NEED for the writers to show it off or attempt to write whole dialogue boxes of him reassuring his friends. there's a reason why sonic telling tails and amy to take care of themselves in SA2 is such a big emotional moment that leaves a big impact on the player. its because it contradicts almost everything he said up until that point. because he genuinely believed he was going to die. and that brief switch up where he SHOWS his emotions becomes a much MUCH stronger moment, because he's not always compassionate all the time. its that same lack of compassion towards the military in SA2, or king arthur in black knight, that makes him such a cool character. and again, thats why sonic's iconic quote from black knight hits so hard in the end. because he recognized merlina to be a good hearted person, but her heard was simply in the wrong place. he didn't hesitate to take her side when he believed she was a good person, but he also never hesitated to take the other side when he believed her to be the bad person. and his quote at the end telling her that 'every life has its end' is how the writers showed us that sonic believes merlina to be a good person who simply needed correction. no overly heroic quotes, no nothing of the sort. honestly, as far as sonic's interpretation goes, you're one of the few people in the community who I've seen fundamentally understand what made sonic such a charming character. and that's.. kinda sad.
Hello! I found your comment to be very well informed, and I enjoyed reading what you have to say. If I remember correctly, I do not remember Sonic complementing his friends at all before Sonic Heroes. For my child self, I think I always knew that he cared for all his friends. It was almost like a solved math equation, just known knowledge, never explicitly told, if that makes any sense. But all in all, I think the biggest point you stated is the one regarding Merlina (the big bad final boss in Black Knight? I think?). Merlina was able to indirectly showcase some good within her heart to Sonic (good specifically meaning whatever he perceives good to be). In the present day, I think Sonic might be lacking that ability to detect genuine good. What I mean by this could be demonstrated with someone like Surge The Tenrec (I have only seen screenshots of their battle and do not know her entire motivation, so I apologize for any incorrect information). Surge is one of those characters that could be considered almost "beyond broken." She has her entire purpose as "destroy Sonic," and that almost always makes her a threat to Sonic in some way. Now, I do not believe that Sonic would entirely destroy her if she did not present herself as a threat, but I do think that Sonic would not have tried talking to her as much in their battle (If I remember correctly, he was pretty much trying to convince her the entire fight). Threats to Sonic are not acceptable to him, and he, in my honest opinion, would have shut that down pretty quick against Surge. My overall point is that Merlina being a good person was able to be seen by Sonic, which is why he does not get rid of her completely like some other evil creatures with no sense of remorse (Another theory is that they obviously cannot showcase Sonic absolutely merking some girl, lol!) But I hope you enjoyed my little paragraph; I did with yours!
@@raphaelbrown6314Controls aren’t even that bad. The stick on the nunchuck is soooo much better for maneuvering, and I love the feeling of slashing with the sword. It’s like if Legend of Zelda was a rail shooter/slicer. It could’ve been a great subgenre.
DUDE, you hit EVERY nail on the head on this topic, especially the part where Ian’s work on Frontiers just wasn’t great. Every video I’ve seen similar to this gets some things right imo but later in their videos completely stray off. At some point I would’ve gone out of the way to make a video like this myself (even though I have no experience with video creation) lol. Thanks for creating this and HOPEFULLY, TONS of people find this and help with bringing change to the series
That whole line about the fanfiction bleeding into official media... I always thought I was alone in that kind of mindset. It's going to be an agonizing wait until we get characters like we did in TMOSTH, I feel like...
Oh please... it's not like the current characterizations are terrible or anything I'm actually kinda fine with current characterizations of the characters specially with Amy in IDW I wouldn't say it's perfect though for sure! But for the most part it's still good though.
I agree that Sonic was a bit naive towards Metal and Eggman in IDW, but everything else in the comic is on the mark. Overall I think we need more “show don’t tell” when it comes to the cutscenes.
and what if that's the Problem!. Sonic Prime is a good example of a mix Bag which i kind of like he's not a perfect McGuffin who saves the day, even Sonic needs to realize he makes mistakes or needs to rely on his team if he gets too cocky winning all the time what would b th point of his friends, and without sonic prime we wouldn't have gotten a good Shadow or Nine Episodes, You can't do that with a stagnant character.
That storytelling rule is probably easier said than done in terms of video game writing. In-game cutscenes tend to have a limited number of assets to use, which means that most of the scenes have to be conveyed through dialogue.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 @geoffreyrichards6079 Eh, the 2000s managed to pull of a mix of "show and tell", which is not perfect, but good enough for the story they wanted to tell. The story of Frontiers (and to a much larger extent, the story in the comics which Ian worked on before), tended to lean on "tell don't show". This is despite the comics have much more freedom when it comes to assets they could use compared to the games.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 True, and say what you wish about the dialogue cutscenes, but previous games had speech bubbles while Frontiers has voice acting and some character animation.
I've been saying this about Sonic for about 2 years now. I didn't really grow up on the Sonic games, I only got into the fandom as a teen/adult. So I mainly noticed this problem in the IDW comics. Sonic, for all of his unpredictability, has always been a deeply compassionate character. He is also a fixer. He sees something he doesn't like? Boom tackled. He sees someone scared and alone? He'll get them somewhere safe and will cheer them up in the process. And I think that that's nothing new. Anyone can claim that and they wouldn't have broken any new ground. The problem is that Ian Flynn and other writers over in IDW, in their attempt to make Sonic appear compassionate, they've actually managed to do the opposite. The first time Sonic battles with Surge, Surge lays out her entire pain and frustrations, at how Starline has screwed with her head in such a violating way, that she can't even think straight. She doesn't know if the thoughts she is thinking and the emotions she is feeling are even hers or Starline's tampering. And Sonic is over there BRUSHING the entire thing off! As if it's nothing!! He keeps spewing his meaningless platitudes and escalating the situation!! If I was Surge I'd want to bash his skull in too!! Why is Sonic being such a duchbag to the victim of the situation here?!?! Just because his words were dressed nicely, didn't mean he wasn't any less of an insensitive ass!! Yeah Sonic very rarely has taken serious situations seriously, but he has never been this cruel to someone who was in such pain! Further back, during the Zombot arc, Sonic keeps ensisting that leaving Eggman be, was the right choice while the world is burning down around him and his friends get hurt! This entire thing infuriates me even more, because for all his talk about freedom, by making the decision to leave Eggman unchecked, because of AmNeSiA, he takes away the freedom from everyone else that might want justice!! Eggman has hurt a lot more people, than just him! It's not up to him. He can't forgive Eggman on behalf of all of his victims. Not on behalf of Amy, for every time he's kidnapped and put her in danger to get to him. Not on behalf of Knuckles, for all the times he took advantage of him and endangered his home. Not on behalf of Shadow, for lyin and, manipulating him, that resulted in the poor guy having an identity crisis, which was SO bad it was the plot of an ENTIRE GAME! In their desperate attempt to make Sonic more compassionate, they've turned him into the biggest d*ck on the planet and I HATE it!
Funny how the Sonic and Surge interaction in IDW ends up giving the opposite effect of the Sonic and Merlina one in Black Knight despite the former seemingly trying to achieve the same goal as the latter
@@geoffreyrichards6079 Yeah, that's part of the problem. The thing is, Archie Sonic doesn't even preach as much as IDW does. He's more of a quippy, arrogant, asshole. Even then, at least Archie Sonic had a character arc that made him grew out of that negative traits
@@ryannathaniel9296 This is why I prefer archie sonic, he feels like a genuine real person that I'd WANT to literally meet irl, or someone similar like him irl at least.
@@SpectacleSpark Same here. Someone who could see their own wrongdoings and is willing to grow to be a better person is much better than a self-righteous asshole who couldn't see themselves doing any wrong
Knowing how much you love and are attached to Archie Sonic, I have a lot of respect for still understanding and respecting Sonic’s canon personality. Doesn’t happen often with how diverse the community and the media they consume is
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelManso u want so to be mean to his friends and others around him. And sonic is not a mean and rude to his friends and others around him he is kind and a nice guy right?
@@bridgetthonnold1289 In Sonic X he isn't what I would call "mean", he's actually shown to be very considerate like when he notices Cream is having negative thoughts so he goes and picks flowers for her. He just isn't polite in the conventional way we humans tend to be. He doesn't worry about how his friends will do without him because he believes in them often more than they believe in themselves. So when he does stuff like run off without a word or do things sporadically as he does (like when he was destroying Eggman's sunlight devices). Sure, sometimes his absence leads to his friends being in trouble and he's been confronted for that by Chris (Ep. 2 when he scolds Sonic for putting them all in danger when trying to save cream), but he says that he could've messed up so he didn't and so all's well that ends well. Essentially as long as things turn out okay he won't hold a grudge against others and he won't hold a grudge against himself either, and he has that optimism that things will turn out okay when he goes for a run because he believes in his friends as I said earlier. Sorry for the paragraphs but I just love Sonic X's characterizations
2:39 the thing about this is that jp sonic, the one that sonic team actually cares about, remained consistent, (exempting lost world where they made him have a character arc which is stupid), it was only in west did sonic become inconsistent, essentially splitting him into two different versions of the same character like what was done back in the 90's
Idk, I don’t really see how he’s been “more” consistent over in Japan compared to the USA, I think it’s exactly the same mostly. I’m really sorry to say but every time I look at the sonic games with subtitles in Japanese, it’s just the same thing as in the English version. Like I remember I watched the cutscenes of black knight or sonic forces in Japanese and I looked at the wording and I thought to myself, “sure a few words are changed here and there, but not enough to make that much of a difference. Overall it’s just sonic, but in Japanese.” That’s all, it’s just the same thing, but in Japanese. I’m sorry if I sound frustrated it’s just that, I’ve spent hours looking at cutscenes of sonic games and even videos explaining why they love JP sonic more than sonic in English. But every time I look at those cutscenes in Japanese, it ends up being just, the same sonic, but in Japanese, that’s it, that’s the only difference. So, I guess I just don’t understand what the difference is really, I’m sorry I don’t see the difference that you see, but they look exactly the same to me.
@@BlueTyphoon2017I am going to slap you, did you read the corrected translation made by the fans? There's a bunch of mods that restore and fix the translation of sonic games because they suck, if you actually watched those in the corrected version you wouldn't be saying this.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 well that's mainly because the games just put the English script subtitles onto the Japanese dialogue. They don't really reflect the actual Japanese script.
You know what..... I did not realised this flaw of IDW and Frontiers.....and i kind of agree I find a bit funny how Frontiers Sonic feels like an evolution of Meta era Sonic and Prime Sonic fells like a devolution of Adventure-Black Night Sonic
Nah...sonic prime happened before black Knight so it's not really a devolution of it takes place before..black Knight but I do agree making sonic prime canon just... doesn't make any sense
while i do agree with SOME things, i feel like we didn't play the same game, to each their own but sonic DID do his own thing sure he's being led by the end, but he went off on his own mindset, he saved his friends because HE wanted to do it, not because he was supposed to and all the trouble he caused during the game, was on his own account, he was the one who decided to push forward no matter the situation, sure he prevented knuckles, but being trapped on a mysterious island he'd like SOME answers as to what's happening he also fights through corruption to climb six towers and exclaims "careful? where's the fun in that?" which is undeniably a sonic quote
But at the same time... He is right about some more things like Sonic being overly preechy like IDW, which is there in Frontiers and how he doesn't show his actions, but you just hear words coming out of Sonic's mouth. But also I like to add that he strangely wanted to wrap up helping the Kokos and say something like that they could help themselves like he sounded like he didn't care about helping them further more and wanted to find his friends than help the Kokos in the first island then... He goes back to wanting to help the kokos and his friends with Knuckles and Tails but in Black Knight... He saw someone in need and was willing to help them and resolve their issues before continuing on his journey, but Frontiers was like "Sure let's help the Kokos" to "let's leave them, they can find their own way" in one island then he pretty much says this "Well, we still haven't found Tails... We've be wrangling up children's around and taking detours this whole way," which pretty much started a little argument between Amy, which Amy is sort of right with what she said, but at the same Sonic was right as well even though it was out of character for him to say like he did point out what they were doing was pointless, which he was right, but in character... He never would have ever said that. Pretty much he didn't do his own thing... Literally what the voice told him was exactly what he did and did the same for the rest of the game. Yes, that is true that the trouble that he caused was from his own account, because he listen to the voice in the sky and he did those things himself. Also, of course he saved his friends because he wanted to because... Their his friends. He did care more about his friends than the harmless little creatures in need. He never really got those answers though and just went "okay, how about some context" and said "some direction is better than none. Here we go!" He would have just hear the voice speak to him and just did mostly his own thing on how he found or help his friends unless he needed assistance, which the voice was kinda that. I like how the JP does it best because he does ask the voice in the sky, about the his friends but then he just didn't care that they didn't gave them the answer and just said "Looks like I'll find them myself... This is getting interesting." In the english, he just ask for where are his friends and context about why he's here and where they are and he was serious on finding his friends and saving them from cyberspace, but JP Sonic has just one goal was to find his friends and sounded more like he going to have more fun doing it, but he still listened to the voice in the sky for assistance like the English.
I’m getting really sick and tired of the whole “Mario Characters aren’t interesting and have zero personality” thing. Like would it kill people to play any of these games.
i’ve been watching sonic prime and honestly i love it regardless but it absolutely also suffers from this problem. sonic just isn’t The Guy like he used to be. he used to be a man of few words who just kind of showed up and flipped everyone’s world upside down and then left as fast as he came. he was cool and unchanging and confident and a little sassy. i like how prime rescued shadow from being the edgy guy who hates everyone and is just mad always and i love all of the voice acting but basically every character other than shadow was kind of.. butchered. they also still have no idea what to do with amy😭
This‼️When watching Sonic prime I don’t know man.. I found asking myself A LOT. “Is this really Sonic the Hedgehog?” His character was really dumbed down in the series which is a reason why I prefer SonicX in the aspect of how they write the characters. Which is in my opinion has the best portrayal of the characters. Like you said, “Sonic **used** to be a guy with few words who kind of showed up and flipped everyone’s world upside down” When reading IDW idk man he just yaps a lot 😭 and as well in Sonic prime. Especially when trying to reason with someone. “This isn’t you Nine! We can fix this!” And then yaps another essay 😪 And the craziest thing is, he achieved to reason with VERY little words with Merlina in black knight.
@@AmyRoseReal i like that you brought up merlina because she really wasn't all that different from nine, and yet the way they wrote sonic handling the situation was just drastically different. satbk sonic didn't waste time by trying to reason with merlina, even saying that he didn't mind being the villain, and they were literally duking it out to the death, meanwhile prime sonic spends 6/7 episodes in s3 saying "let's work it out nine!" like 10 different times to no avail. i get that nine is another version of tails so sonic would probably have some kind of attachment to him anyway, but they tried way too hard to make sonic all sad about it when in reality he probably would have drawn the line and given up on trying to reason with nine as soon as he started threatening other people's lives as a way to get to sonic.
sonic prime's sonic has to be one of the worst portrayals of the character tbh. he's extremely dumbed down and incompetent and has to get saved by shadow all the time. Not to be dramatic but that's character assassination to me lol
Sonic is always a positive character that I look up to. SatAM Sonic is my top favorite adaption of all time. Sonic helped me with my personal life; to be more positive and not give up hope. Thank you, Sonic.
SatAM Sonic should be a gold standard as to how to portray Sonic in continuities. You have a storyline where he can be serious and even get emotional, but at the same time he still has the sense of optimism, like you know things will eventually turn out alright because Sonic's there.
I feel as though we here in the west got screwed by early translation/localization choices, and so now we have like 5 different possible interpretations of Sonic, while in Japan, he basically never changes.
Funniest part is Sonic is more popular in the west. I partially think it’s BECAUSE there are so many interpretations of him here that he can fit whatever people see as cool in their mind. To me, he’s the big brother everyone wants and Tails is the lens for the audience especially in the earlier game but then he splits off to Jaleel, Ryan, Jason, Roger, Ben, and Deven so there’s really a type of Sonic for all
@@elmemearana well Sonic is unique in that he was initially popular because he was a perfect blend of cute and cool. Round like most cute animal characters and mascots but spiky at the same time to signify his coolness. When they updated the designs with adventure they leaned into the cool side more which led to more westerners being drawn to him (Japanese prefer cute overall) so I see him as a pretty Japanese American creation. He was created by a Japanese guy initially but the American team put in the legwork to tell Sega what NOT to do and then they leaned into appealing to Westerners afterwards
@@laserbeamlightning when you want to say "american team", you say about SoA, right? Since they were in cargo of SoJ's decisions regards to Sonic. Also, from what I remember, Adventur-ish Sonic and even Modern Sonic in general is a bit more popular than Classic Sonic in Japan (and his jp classic design still had this cute aura).
Excellent video, dude. And message received loud and clear on the Scrapnik Island bit at 4:13 haha Next time I get a shot at writing Sonic, my goal is to improve
I really appreciate that people are recently exposing this insane character assassination among the cast in the official mainline games and stories like you, pariah, and some other third TH-camr. I really hope Ian Flynn decides to listen and change up how his writing if he keeps writing for the series.
I wouldn't say character assassination it just the way they are written in IDW and frontiers doesn't click with people like him.. but I wouldn't say character assassination because the writing doesn't go against what the characters are as awhole actually there are some people actually like this characterization
Okay, I get what you mean, but I think Sonic having a philosophy that involves wanting people to be free to live their lives isn’t necessarily inconsistent with his character. I mean just look at how he reacted to Perfect Chaos. I refused to just lock Chaos away in the Master Emerald again or kill him. He wanted to help Chaos FINALLY let go of their anger and move on. (He also said it in a pretty wordy way.) Even for characters like Metal Sonic, after kicking his ass in Sonic Heroes he just left Metal to choose what he does next. Love it or hate it, this isn’t really that out of character.
Exactly, plus he was a lot worse in archie despite what people think. He not only consistently bullied some of his closest friends, but he even assumed that someone like Tails worshiped him and he'd get over any bad blood the two had with each other. Like, how can anyone call him a hero at times when he does stuff like that. At least with IDW, we see the positives and while sometimes he can be preachy, it comes from his experiences and what he chooses to do. It's called character development after all, otherwise we'd just the same incarnation over and over again.
Exactly my guy to honest that was always been sonic from the beginning hell even archie and satam did this the dude is not a monster or a killer he may do his thing his own way but the guy cares saving people and seeing the good in everyone kinda like spider-man but difference honestly i don't think this dude in the video understands sonic either like come now if thats the case then way didn't he just killed chaos same with shadow,knuckles,saga, surge and kit 😗
@grizzakaful well sonic has his moments in the archie comics sure but he still a hero and still have plenty moments were still cares about everyone especially with sally and tails thats just sonic being sonic and a teenager at that and he did apologize to tails about his parents and he did make things right with sally before the genesis wave and gotten roboticize and other times bullies were he bullies his friends were at time he was messing with them its not that deep my guy and other times he just doesn't know any better and could have worded the stuff he says abit wisely so i'll give you that
Even in the Genesis/Meta Drive era this was the case, with there being a bio that losted crying as one of his dislikes. It was less of "don't cry I don't like that" and more like "hey, don't cry, everything's gonna be all right"
I'm glad you actually acknowledged Japanese Sonic. At least SOJ always had an idea on who and what they want Sonic to be instead of switching his personality around, unlike how SOA is handling it
THANK YOU, I absolutely agree and now I have a perfect video to show as to why! I've been really dissatisfied with the Sonic franchise as of late because of the character writing and you explain how jarring it is to see compared to old stuff very well. Sonic has been and always will be my favourite character of all time, but to see him being subdued and made palpable has been frustrating as a long time Sonic fan, not to mention an adult. Don't get me wrong, I am aware Sonic at the end of the day will be marketed towards kids above all else, but Sonic as a character is enjoyable for all ages. Lately though, he does feel very generic and it's incredibly cathartic to see others not only agree, but put it into words so well that perfectly encapsulate what I personally dislike with where the Sonic franchise is now.
i always saw sonic as character defined by actions more than his words like you said. and even the words he does use are very consistent, simple and doesn't try to preach. this is probably why black knight's one-liners works so well in my eyes. a phrase like "it was never about chivalry for me. i just gotta do what i gotta do. that's all" is short and sweet. you know exactly from the line what sonic is about. you know that he follows his own way and doesn't deviate from it. the fact that this one line is so simple and short also aligns with sonic's character, being fast and all. even the line "isn't there more to being a knight than just serving a king?" doesn't exactly imply a mentality sonic is trying to preach, but rather a straightforward, thought-provoking question. ultimately, he continue to follows his own path while letting others follow theirs, without blatantly stating a specific lesson.
7:08 THIS right here is how Sonic should always be. He should just give words of wisdom and not be the voice of reasoning, now its not bad for Sonic to want and try to talk to them but he didn't try to do it everytime he meets the enemy he only talk once and if it didn't work he's ready to fight. I will still Say Frontiers is a step forward when it comes to a Sonic story but there are a few things that could of differently been done better, also more Gex
Good video. I like the writing in Frontiers, and to me it felt like a ‘reboot’ if you will so we can get over the bad writing of the past few games and get good again.
How was it a reboot if they canonized all the games that came before it and even the 2010s I one game. Unless you're saying it's a soft reboot and not a hard one.
Dude!!!! Ok, this is the first video from you that I’ve come across, and oh my word you are SPOT ON. My friend (who recommended this video to me) and I have been freaking out over text for the past 15 minutes because everything you say in this video captures PERFECTLY our recent frustrations with Sonic’s portrayal! Thank you so much for putting it all into words!! “Sonic doesn’t HAVE a philosophy. He acts on instinct and lets his actions speak for him, not his words.” YES. THANK YOU. SOMEONE GETS IT 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Is this why Sonic Prime is canon? In the first season, Sonic acts completely out of instinct and in doing so lead to a massive mistake that beat a painful haunting lesson into his head. Moving forward now, he's changed.
@@dragondelsur5156I wouldn't say that's true, but sonic would definitely at least hear out his friends instead of rolling his eyes at needing to be careful, and he'd have actually his head in the game instead of going at it like it's a scheme of the week
Yeah, I think Frontiers handled Sonic’s relationship with Sage fine. Sonic could at least sense that Sage isn’t our evil and words are more persuasive than violence.
fun fact for those who came in late...: one of the promotional CGI cutscenes showed Sonic weak from the cyber corruption, and in a feat of desperation willingly tried to PUNCH Sage in the face! (but gets knocked back by her force shield) this has nothing to do with the main story of Frontiers, but i thought i had to leave this out there for those who didn't know it
@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL Yeah, I remember that. The difference is sonic doesn’t look happy about the fight. He doesn’t grin like a psychopath at the thought of attacking a child. In the cinematic, it came across as a last stitch self-defense.
If Sage was a normal kid, sure, but Sage can manipulate Titans strong enough to kill Sonic easily and she can fire energy projectiles. Her being a kid doesn't mean she's as weak as a normal one, and Sonic clearly knows this.
The fact that it took this video for me to realize just what was missing from his character for a while is absolutely amazing. I really do hope SEGA takes some notes from this, because just that small rewrite between Sonic and Sage incapsulated the personality that even got me hooked on this series in the first place.
Sonic in the 1990s-2000s: A bit of a cocky lad who just likes adventure, will do whatever it takes to make things right, wasn’t that much of an idiot, knew when to take things seriously, actually cared about his friends and overall an actual character. He was actually cool. Sonic in the 2010s: *Literally just family friendly deadpool.* Sonic in the 2020s (so far.): Just like every other hero. Movie Sonic: Literally a kid. Prime Sonic: Completely stupid. There, summarised it here… I think.
I definitely get what you mean. I think what you're getting at is Sonic's "ethos" so to speak was more an observation rather than a geared he actively tries to spread and promote as a virtue. There was a fundemental subtlety to how he was handled and how he acts and behaves that i think Ian tends to not be the best at. In general with his writing really. I dont hate him either. Just an honest criticism I've had for a while.
Yeah, for lack of a better term, Sonic just...doesn’t give a fuck. He does what he wants, but he’s not gonna preach about it. What others do is their business.
Which gives me more inspiration for my version of Sonic. I want him to start off with being like he was in the Archie comics, going through the same process of character development as in the Archie comics, leading to him becoming more of what he used to be, just for more character dynamic and to have more of an effect and events that impact his character. All the development and struggle will lead to the Sonic we always knew
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan I don't think it's that he doesn't care necessarily. If Sonic really didn't care or 'give a fuck', then he'd likely just let Eggman do whatever he wanted to the world and not bother trying to stop him, because why should he care. I think it's more that Sonic doesn't really know how to show that he cares the way he should and that he might be more than a little in denial. He acts tough and cool in front of everyone, but in reality any time he fails to do something, it eats him on the inside. He definitely cares about others and has a sense of justice. He hates seeing others suffer, and doesn't like people to be sad. He just doesn't handle grief in the best manner, either because he's encountered it too many times, or because he's just not used to encountering it. The PROBLEM is that Ian Flynn has a bad habit of getting really carried away when trying to make Sonic overly dramatic. And my biggest fear is this is going to happen to the games now that he's in charge of them. He's already entertaining the possibility of doing a Sonic game based on the Metarex Saga from Sonic X (his name is actually on a savecosmo petition, and I'm being dead serious here), and we know what happens there. I don't mind having drama in Sonic, and Sega could definitely do worse than to give Sonic some real character growth beyond the stereotypical personality he's known for having. Also I have nothing against the Metarex Saga (hell, I'm a Taismo fan). But you can have too much of a good thing, to the point where you lose what made the character memorable in the first place. You have to be careful and make sure there's a balance. And yes, fans will notice this, because we like continuity in Sonic. We like to see how the characters are affected and how the storylines build from the previous ones.
@@SBabyI think you hit the nail on the head here. The thing people forget is that Sonic is a teenager and like a lot of them, they can be cocky from time to time but Sonic is a cool drifter but at the same time the kind who will get involved with people’s problems if he can help them. The Sonic X episode with Helen still is the most genius piece of writing in the series I’ve seen just based on his interactions with her. He’s got a short temper to boot ofc when his friends get hurt but he’s shy around Amy cause yes he does like her back. Ian’s style just tends to be overwritten but I wouldn’t outright call it inconsistent. That said character moments like the Sage one in this video are sorely missing. Remember when Sonic helped Blaze open up to others? He needs to have a Goku type role where his kindness and optimism is what brings about the change
Weeks ago I started a new playthrough of Sonic Frontiers, this time with a bunch of mods to fix all the annoying things from the game. One of the mods I used was Wiindi's Japanese Translation mod, which replaces all the english subtitles for accurate translations of the japanese script. Despite the game clearly being made with the english dub in mind, with a lot of phrases not matching what characters are doing the cutscenes when you play with the japanese voices, I soon realized the japanese script is better than Ian Flynn's script. It is not perfect, and some parts are 1:1 copies of the english version, but Sonic sounds way more consistent with how he was written the previous games. Sage's characterization is a lot better in japanese imo. From the beginning it is made clear she attack Sonic because that's what she was programmed do to, to protect Eggman. She quickly understands Sonic's actions would impose a threat to Eggman, so he commands the Titans to attack him. In english she talks like she was protecting the Starfall Islands, but in japanese she hates Sonic. Sonic's relationship with her is handled better in japanese. He just doesn't want to stop to talk with someone who spouts a lot of nonsense at him when he busy looking for his friends. This is more consistent with Sonic not wanting to waste time helping the Koco later in the story. Also, Sage doesn't call Eggman "father", she calls him "the doctor" in japanese. What is up with Ian Flynn's obsession with trying to redeem Dr. Eggman in IDW and now the games? For Amy's portrayal it is still hit or miss because the japanese script still tries to erase Amy's core characteristics, but I think her arc is better explained in japanese. She comes to the conclusion she's been acting shortsighted in her quest for love, and in order the get what she wants, she has to do some soul searching of her own, which Sonic finds "dazzling". It is not shakespeare, but it sounds far better to me than "I have to go on my own to spread love to this world", which is what she's been doing since her introduction in 1993! Argh! A scene when Sonic meets Giganto for the first time he is so casual in japanese when he looks at him and says "Man, this guys is stupid huge". The Knuckles section in Ares is pretty much the same as the english script. I fact, it is the only part I would say it is better than the japanese version because the dialogue felt more natural, and some dialogue between Sonic and Knuckles in jap felt odd to me. Tails is straight the a glow up from Ian's version. On the surface it is the same conclusion Tails arrives as in the english script, but in japanese Sonic says to Tails "I'm always rooting for you to grow", which is a sharp contrast to Ian's "I'm not ready for you to grow up so fast". Ian's version makes Sonic sound selfish, like he is afraid Tails will realize his potential and leave his shadow. I think the intention was to make it more like a young brother dynamic, but japanese Sonic sees Tails as his equal and understands there are things on he can do, and other Tails is better at. It is so weird how the japanese script was written later by Morio Kishimoto and Jyunpei Ootsu, but still gets Sonic more right than Ian Flynn. I'd like to see a Sonic game fully written these two. Sonic is at best when it is written by japanese writers.
You know when you say sonic doesn't want to waste time to help the kocos or...waste his time with sage when he was looking for a way to save his friends you do realize that he did that in the English version too right? Also as for tails and sonic that's not what happened in the English version he was never afraid of tails to realize his full potential he instead said ((well I guess you grow up a little faster than I expected)) and later he said to tails something about ((hoping to reaching new heights partner)) like that's what he said in the English version are you sure we played the same sonic frontiers because that's not what exactly happened!
While I understand that having Sonic being written differently in all the mediums that's been released could be irritating to some, I genuinely love all the character writing for him across the years. I love seeing how people portray him, official or not. He's a fun and interesting character that you can fit into almost any type of media and you'd get a story out of it. There's been a lot of arguing over how Sonic should be characterized and it's starting to aggravate me. I just say let people interpret him however you wish.
Well the problem people don't let others interpret Sonic as they want, every time it's done game fans consider it a damage to the game line even though it's stated to be alternative take. The only time I can understand game fans backlash is with IDW and Prime Sonic because people behind it are responsible for stating these versions are the same as game one and they deserve fair criticism.
That's the problem. The fact that you can just make Sonic, however you want, is basically telling that Sonic doesn't have a personality. By interpreting him as anything, that basically means he's nothing.
Actually, I think the problem might be that they're focusing on Sonic's character TOO much. Hear me out here. There was something about Sonic's character that was so effortless. Nothing seemed forced or anything with him, he was always just laid back and easy to understand just the way he was. Yes, he's a complex character, but there was nothing hard to understand about him. Nowadays they're springing for character growth. Which I LOVE, and you can't use the same mascot for decades and not have him experience that, I get it. So maybe they're trying to actually GIVE him a moral compass. I totally support that. It's the fact that it was just... out of nowhere that makes it a little odd. What INSPIRED him to start developing his already existing morals into something drastic like this? Seemingly nothing, and THAT'S where I take issue. I personally don't mind his actions in IDW or Frontiers. They're trying to make him a deeper, more mature character with an obvious moral, and I like that. But they're taking his natural deep compassion and dialing it up to umpteen, so the effortlessness of his character gets completely drowned. Is the writing in Frontiers or IDW perfect? No. But I enjoy it a heck of a lot more than when the series was imploding itself by making him into a pun machine in games meant for kids.
I can't agree with the growth angle, but it does feel like they're doing a lot more telling than showing. Sonic is a character who's effortlessly interesting. When you try and explain why he's so deep and interesting, you kinda lose a lot of the charm.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan THAT. THAT, YES. Sonic has ALWAYS been more action than talk. And while I love some of the dialogue, it can be a bit distracting.
You mean the same one that got rebooted and Also artstyle changed that technically doesn't look like hes original inspiration of Looney Tune character?
I always thought it was weird how nice sonic was to sage in frontiers. It felt off how he never really antagonized her for her attitude, only trying to make peace, which doesn't feel like a sonic thing. Sonic of the past wouldn't waste time trying to negotiate after the giganto incident, but he kept trying and it doesn't make any sense. I imagine adventure era sonic as chaotic good while the modern iteration is pushing him neutral good, sanding down his edge for whatever flynn has in mind moving forward
It’s weird too because in the trailers for Frontiers, Sonic does try to attack Sage. All they needed was one scene like that where he tries to attack her and it doesn’t work.
This is absolutely my take on his character as well, I'm glad to hear another youtuber share this sentiment. I've been watching a lot of Pariah695 and his Sonic game/story reviews, and he has a very similar opinion on Sonic's character which is seen in his reviews of the classic games. This video does a fantastic job showcasing the writing style change by Ian Flynn starting with the IDW comics and then into Frontiers, I really didn't know the change was that gradual. Honestly fascinating and I really wonder if Frontier's reception will cause Ian or Sega to change their approach to character writing or how narratives are approached in future titles.
Yeah, I really don't get the aversion towards static characters when they've been around since… pretty much the beginning, really. In both Western AND Eastern culture. Your usual reason for watching Robin Hood or Zorro isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they punish the wicked and help the unfortunate this time?" Your usual reason for watching Sherlock Holmes or Batman isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they solve this mystery and catch the culprit?" Your usual reason for watching Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they use their tricks and tactics to outwit their opponents and get out of this adventure unscathed?" "How will Dick Tracy get out of this one?" "How will Asterix and Obelix foil the Romans' latest scheme?" "How will James Bond undermine this Machiavellian mastermind?" "How will Wile E. Coyote fail to catch the Road Runner?" Tintin, Popeye, Superman, Captain America, Indiana Jones, Mario, Son Goku, Forrest Gump, Monkey D. Luffy… all of these are beloved, long-lasting characters because they don't NEED to grow or change. And if they don't need to grow or change, then there's no expiration date for their character. There's no point where you have to look at where they are and ask, "Now what?" Sure, like real people, they can learn from their mistakes and gain new attitudes on things (e.g. Goku rejecting his Saiyan heritage at first before learning to accept and even embrace it), but again, that's not the MAIN reason you watch them. All these characters are long-lasting and recognizable, and they've never needed to grow or change to be interesting, so why does Sonic?
subscribed halfway through the video, i'm so glad there's someone out there who has the exact same thoughts as i do. i feel like the mischaracterization of sonic and other characters in the series is a bigger issue than people realize (because everyone wants to dumb down criticism of the series to just "sonic fans complaining"). the writers stopped thinking about how to portray characters accurately in a story and more how they can write what _they_ want into a sonic story. it gets genuinely annoying when i'm reading the idw comics and have to sit through multiple long speeches from sonic about how he's a good person and wants to give everyone second chances or some shit. and also the whole implementing song lyrics into dialogue that _would_ be cool if it was implemented correctly, but it's just not because of how forced it sounds. also i'm glad that you pointed out how sonic prime is supposed to be canon, because prime sonic and game sonic are absolutely _not_ the same character. according to ian flynn it takes place "sometime after advance 3" which means there's no viable reason why sonic acts the way he does during the show. to my understanding the writer of the show said that he hasn't played any of the games past the genesis era, and yeah, that really shows. it's less egregious because that means the writer doesn't know _how_ characters are meant to act in certain situations, but i'm wondering why sega never gave them any direction; they worked closely with TMS on sonic x which is why the characterization is so accurate, so i don't know why they wouldn't do the same for prime. probably because they don't care anymore lol. but it just makes me sad because i was really excited for a new plot-driven sonic show. back to the games, a lot of people thought frontiers was a step in the right direction from the awful writing of the 2010s, but honestly i don't really have much faith with how boring and exposition-y the story was. literally every character in the game just repeats the character arcs they had 20 years ago. i get that it's to fix the damage that forces caused, but it was still Not good in my opinion. they should have just shown that characters are being fixed by writing them good instead of doing the whole "hey remember when this happened! i'm gonna do it again to show that i changed!" it bothers me so bad LOL. mucho texto... sorry if i sound too negative, i still eat up most sonic content just cuz i'm someone who likes to know _everything_ about my favourite series, it just gets hard when most of that content is Not good lol. glad more people are speaking out about their gripes with the series. great video :]
The statement about Sonic Prime kinda proves that Ian Flynn is not as credible as people made him out to be. I'm concerned about the future of writing in the games if he's going to be involved long-term in the games
All of my yes. Sonic is such a simple character. He’s fast, he loves adventure, and he just does what he feels right. He’s not self-righteous or even a hero. He is just Sonic. Nuff said
this is the greatest video i've seen that breaks down the exact problem with sonic currently. beautifully well said. thank you so much for making this.
Honestly, Sonic nowadays has the same problem as Boba Fett does in Star Wars nowadays. THEY BOTH TALK TOO MUCH, WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NEED TO. (sorry for the all caps)
Yes, this is the third time I've commented below here, but I just wanted to share something I've figured out recently. I feel like the best descriptor of who Sonic is came from the Japanese manual for the first game. On the intro page, we get this first-person message from Sonic: "Sorry for being prickly. People who are all talk are no good. I don't do what I do for justice. I do what I do because I want to do it. But I'd never betray you." The Japanese side of things has been consistent with this simple summary, and I even feel like there are a couple western Sonics out there that follow it. Fleetway!Sonic is abrasive, but he gets the job done, ultimately cares about his friends and has even redeemed a few adversaries WITHOUT having to spout meaningless platitudes. AoStH!Sonic is a Looney Tunes character, but he's fun-loving, helps out folks and is an overall reliable guy. Movie!Sonic has less experience and tries to play superhero at one point, but his very arc in the second movie is him (and Knuckles) learning that he's at his strongest when he just fights to protect his loved ones rather than for justice or an ideal. It's why he willingly gives up the power of the Chaos Emeralds at the end. IDW!Sonic, though? Couldn't be further from that original scripture. It can be argued that this problem stemmed from how SatAM and Archie portrayed Sonic as fighting for freedom as an ideal rather than freedom for the sake of freedom, but IDW is where the issues became too prevalent to ignore. * "People who are all talk are the worst." - IDW!Sonic goes on long, wordy platitudes about how cool and heroic he is, which come off as boring at best and condescending at worst. (Word of advice to aspiring comic artists like myself: dialogue-driven stories can result in empty calories compared to cause-and-effect-driven stories, so ensure that the art can still convey the story well enough without dialogue.) * "I don't do what I do for justice. I do what I do because I want to do it." - IDW!Sonic's all about how, "I'm not sacrificing my principles out of fear," even if it results in his friends (or even the entire planet) taking the brunt of it. * "But I'd never betray you." - For all his spiel about "compassion", IDW!Sonic is a giant hypocrite. He gaslights Shadow through his past of misguided villainy by threatening to "take [him] out with Eggman" if he doesn't give Mr. Tinker a second chance. He claps back at Espio for stating they should have handled the Mr. Tinker situation differently despite how Espio was just traumatized through watching Vector become a Zombot. When Belle tries to fix Metal Sonic and Tails brings up the previous time they let him go free, Sonic shoves responsibility onto Tails for being the one to "de-weaponize" him. He's completely dismissive towards Surge and her mental trauma, and he ends the fight by blaming her for how she turned out. Sonic the Hedgehog would never even THINK to say, "The problem with giving people a choice is that you can't stop them from making the wrong ones." That's something I'd expect to see EGGMAN say as a means of glorifying his ambitions of world conquest. How the hell do you get to THAT point by accident!?
I agree with your point about fleetway Sonic but some small corrections: 1. Archie Sonic was a lot more true to original Sonic than IDW Sonic, i know cuz i read all of Archie by myself! 2. IDW Sonic's characterization actually started all the way back in Sonic Forces, so i think it most likely has something to do with Sega mandates, and while i don't think IDW Sonic is as bad as you think, he really does talk a lot. Oh and just a small observation, that original description of Sonic is amazing, thank you for sharing!
@@freezeblazestar1079 The only people who think the worst version of Sonic is fleetway Sonic is the worst Sonic are people who haven't read the fleetway Sonic comic. Sonic The Comic( or STC, which is the name of the fleetway comics) is a british comic, and in british culture it's common to be playfully mean with friends and other people, americans just take the comic panels out of context to make Sonic seem like a bad friend, but fleeetway Sonic DOES care about his friends, he just has a really hard time showing it.
"Talk about low-budget flights, no food or movies... I'm outta here! I like running better!", "Say something, you fake hedgehog!", "I'm counting on you Tails! And Amy, take care of yourself!", "What you see is what you get, just a guy that loves adventure. I'm Sonic the Hedgehog!" Lines like these are what introduced me to Sonic, someone who always had this sense of confidence yet never wrote off world-ending danger because "It's like it's my job or something!" (No hate to the Awareness Era, but it's hard to take their attempt at SatAM-level seriousness seriously when Sonic certainly isn't). Frontiers Sonic isn't quite at that back to the Sonic I saw on my GameCube, but I do think it's a step back in the direction of making Sonic a high to decent character rather than simply decent like in the Awareness Era.
it's nice to see others, see what i see too. the sonic we love has been forgotten by the ones writing him, and that we need our spirit of the wind back.
Amazing video! And once again i really agree with where you are coming from. I grew up with the 2010 era, as Sonic Colours was my very 1st Sonic game. But even as a kid, after wanting to go and try out other games in the series, i realised that Sonic was really different in his past adventures. He was a cookie cutter, watered down Saturday morning cartoon character, and while it caught my attention as a kid, looking back my love for this blue guinea pig wouldnt have lasted nearly as long if i didnt go back and check out his previous games. It was the Classics, the Adventure games, the Advance trilogy and Black Knight that kept me around, and it was all because Sonic wasnt like anything else id had played or seen before. He was kind of like a role model, in a sense that the way he acted (for the most part) showed right from wrong in a way that wasnt forced down your throat. He didnt need to explain his reasons for doing what he does best, he just went along for the ride and helped people along the way. You didnt need fan service or easter eggs, Sonic's actions were enough. Sonic always had a proper sense of direction, as like you said, the stories used to evolve around the characters. Its something that was honestly missing in the 2010 era, as it seemed like any other mascot could be swapped in at any point, and people would be none the wiser. And while i do think Frontiers is a great return, i think going from Forces to Frontiers masks some of the problems with the current writing imo. Its going in a much better direction for sure, but the characters need to change along with the writing style imo. Sonic feels like a different character in Frontiers compared to Adventure - Black Knight. He talks too much, and doesnt allow for his actions to speak for him. Your animation between Sonic and Sage felt so right, it made me realise what we had been missing. I miss Sonic feeling down to earth, its a trait that no other mascot has (that i can think of) and it used to be balanced so well, and now its almost non existent. I think with time, the writing will be ironed out and its possible that we could end up somewhat close to the old style of writing we love so much. But it really depends on how the characters are handled imo. Anyway sorry for 'ranting' just wanted to give my opinion on this subject, as if i do it anywhere else (*cough* Twitter) id be skewered. Much appreciate you putting your opinions on the characters out there in a way that respects everyone. Not a lot of people do that! Oh and Gex for president 2024.....
Fun fact I used to like Mario back in the Nintendo classic NES era until one day in Walmart they put the sega genesis with the game of sonic and knuckles and my life change i became a fan of the Sonic franchise
Murder of sonic is amazing!!!! Amy is my favorite character and she’s been all over the place for decades. There she’s a fun spunky go-getter and not annoying or boring.
Yeah, I was just informed that in a recent BumbleKast episode they talked about the Sonic and mercy stuff (again), they speak about it like it's a linear choice between "Sonic lets his enemies go" and "Sonic kills his enemies" rather than even bringing up the "Sonic doesn't need to kill his enemies but he should punish them" option that you pointed out, guess what happened in issue 61 was just a blip after all It's very weird, I don't know why they keep doing it, they can and should ultimately choose which questions they should ask rather than treat everything as put-upon them, why do they have such a weird way of responding to criticism, oh my god
Some of Sonic Frontiers writing was not the best yet it was not bad either. Regardless, the game is the right direction for the future of Sonic versus the awful writing of Sonic Colors, Lost World, and Forces that turned Sonic into a parody of himself. Seriously, who thought hiring the Happy Tree Friends writers was a good idea? That is like asking the people behind Family Guy to write the story and dialogue of a mainline Final Fantasy game.
I don't usually comment on videos on these, or at all, but I guess I wanted to put out my thoughts on this because its been in the back of my mind... and it might be long. I am someone who grew up with Sonic from 2010, roughly speaking. I haven't played all the games fully, aside from cutscenes, but the most I been exposed to Sonic was the cartoons and games like SA 1 &2, 06, Gens and onwards from there. Classics as well but we're discussing modern Sonic here and to me I think what I realized is that I don't care for the Sonic you're describing in the video and honestly can't say truely why that is. I had enjoy certain moments like Black Knight and some parts from X, but lately I have enjoyed the recent depictions more than I have in the past, specially Sonic Boom, Frontiers, and the Movies., but let's exclude the spinoffs and focus on Frontiers. I enjoyed how Sonic was in that game, I like the moments that you dislike and found the story enjoyable, even with the knowledge that some parts were cut out for time. The rewrite you provided doesn't really work for me, but I'm willing to let be more how the story would be written with that in mind. As for IDW, I can't comment as I haven't caught up to those moments, but I think Sonic Channel stories are nice, if not really changing my mind on Sonic. But to the point or whatever point I had, I think Sonic was a character that I found not as interesting in the past. Maybe I just don't care for that type of character really, maybe I like the new Sonic, MAYBE I like Sonic to be whatever at this maybe, I honestly can't say why I don'y have a issue with Sonic currently, other than Prime being not consider canon in the first place and was just consider "canon" for marketing reasons. I understand the points in the video and I see why people can frustrated, but I guess like Sonic, I'm free like the wind in that sense...or lighting depending on who you ask. -Signed, A rambling person who probably didn't have a point to make.
really really great work on this video!!! i hope more people find and watch this. also i cackled when i heard the Unleashed Rank E music playing in the background at 5:01 lol
I've never played one of his game but I just started to like the way he is.. No offence but I think he is a great guy and most people almost try to see the world like he does but let's be honest. He has some flaws of his personality but every person has it and he cant really be changed by that. 💙Blue blur is a unique character 💖
This comment! Almost every person talking about Ian Flynn's work is either praising it to death or hating him to death, people are just toxic for no reason just because of a cartoon hedgehog not acting the way they like, this is the only comment in this entire video that i agree with! Ian Flynn is a good writer working on this series for almost two decades, but he's not perfect. There are flaws he can improve upon in the future. FINALLY A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!
Sonic’s whole thing is basically all about freedom and he _is_ inherently compassionate and outwardly positive. But what Ian got wrong with Sonic is that he made freedom basically a core value of Sonic, having Sonic hype it up like it’s a page in his new book he’s selling on Amazon for $16.99 and having it be the driving force for some…really _dumb_ decisions of his… Sonic’s whole thing is freedom because he’s literally free from everything _including_ personal values. Everyone else can do and be what they like, that’s not Sonic’s problem and he won’t do squat to bring them out of situation he believes they can take themselves out of. What Sonic does for others involves him asking a short, specific question or having a concise message about what he thinks about the situation when he knows they’re listening. He’s quick to go off on his own and leave anyone he’s talking to to work it out on their own and decide what they want to do. They only look back on him because they know it was him challenging their worldview that made them a better person and *not* him forcing them into a situation they didn’t choose for themselves.
I think more of the issue is that Sega still has a grip on the writing. I feel like IDW is trying to do the best with those limitations and the same goes for Ian Flynn. Yeah Archie was great but after the reboot Sonic and Co acted a bit different. And that's continued with IDW and frontiers. I'll be honest I've enjoyed sonic here more than other games, I like that he tries to help people and not just make a quip and grin. Is he perfect? No but that's the point, this version that Sega wants him to be is gonna be flawed and the writers are doing their best with it.
That’s a fair take, but I do slightly disagree. If I’m not mistaken, Ian Flynn’s gone on record saying that the mandates for writing Sonic specifically have been pretty lenient. And while I obviously have no intention of demonising him, it does feel like these strange writing choices are more on him and his team rather than Sega.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan That's understandable, I personally think it's a more interesting direction to take the character but I can understand why you and others don't like it.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan they’re more relaxed than they used to be but they’re still there. He got a question about the mandates on a bumble Kast episode before the New Year. SEGA’s grip isn’t AS restrictive as when he was writing for Frontiers and IDW but they’re still there.
I like to think of the change in writing being related to characters maturing within the universe and learning from their past experiences to try and do things better, such as when Sonic stops cyberspace Knuckles from trying to attack Sage in order to try and reason with her instead of blundering head first into the situation. For once he was trying to use his head and think first, just like Tails and amy might approach the situation. I sometimes see this approach in other characters like Doctor Who where they try to learn from their past mistakes while still being consitstent to their character. Maybe I'm talking jibberish but I can definitely understand and respect your points about the contrast between the writing before ans after the meta era of the Sonic franchise.
People will call me aJapanese purist, but there's a reason why I say the Japanese side of sonic have always understood his character the most. Generally in the east, it's character first, then story after. The story revolves around the characters. That's why sonic characterisation, and even the storytelling was more impactful and better in the past games.(late 90s/early 2000s). This is why I want Shiro Maekawa back.(Or if they get a western writer, just get em to follow this principle more) Take for example, sonic and the black knight, and sonic frontiers(mainly written by flynn). Frontiers has so much lore dumps, explanations etc, and its well written, but the characters themselves act as mouth pieces to kinda exposit the story. Even when they get their own moments, it's kinda flat(at least in the English script. Jaapnese script did it better IMO). But black knight? MOST of it is PURE CHARACTER ACTION. Not only between Sonic but also Merlina as well. Sure we don't get a shit ton of info about its world or merlina's past, but the character dynamic is what makes it SIMPLE yet ENGANGING. Just my perspective on it.
I think the line about Sonic being too trusting from Knuckles is a bit odd to point out as a retcon to his character. Knuckles is only saying that because he's taking the attack on them as proof of Sage being a "bad guy". It is very in character for Knuckles to act on what he sees. He's simple like that. "You're too trusting" is nothing more than him claiming that Sonic is ignoring the actions that speak for what Sage is. It's not that the writers are making the claim that Sonic is overly trusting as a character trait. Otherwise they would have put that in the new character descriptions on the site. It's just that Knuckles, who has been fooled many times, is making the claim that Sonic is too trusting, because Knuckles was often fooled himself. Instead of Knuckles being told, he is witnessing someone's actions. With that, Knuckles believes that's enough to act on. Sonic is just open to understanding, while Knuckles thinks that's all to understand. I don't think Sonic trusted the voice of The End, but it was ground to investigate on. He says "some direction is better than none". Which I admit it's odd to just go along with the voice so soon, however he asks and is clearly annoyed without the context he asked for. Sonic is just doing what he can until he gathers further information. It's a strategy in itself to go with a plan, if you dont have direction yourself, to inspire a new one. I always seen it as that. However, as you imply, they should have shown Sonic trying to work things out himself until being put into a corner, and deciding to go with The End's plan. I think you make some decent points. I think the Sonic Colors Ultimate animation, Frontiers, and Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog have been doing decent work to his character. Still needs work, but it's on the right track in my opinion. I think they need to work the writing of the story, rather than limiting Sonic to fall into the overarching plot of the story. They could have done Frontiers a bit better. Think about it, if Sonic was able to get Sage to talk, then Sonic would have gained further information to ditch The End's plan. Of course they would still need to break down the "walls" of cyberspace, but that's not the point. Sonic, being mature, made the right call with trying to work with Sage, to investigate. Just didn't work out that way, so he's stuck with what works, The End's plan. If Sonic is making a mistake in other ways, then he'll just have to fix it. It's that simple.
Hey Pixelrush. Personally as much as I love game Sonic (Mainly Sonic from Unleashed), my personal favorite is Movie Sonic. I actually really like how Sonic in the movies struggles with loneliness and throughout the 2 movies, he gets the family that he always wanted. I think it really makes this version of the character unique. It’s what inspired me to make a comic book about his struggles. And I’m really excited to see where his journey goes from here after Sonic Movie 3.
Though I agree with how horrendous he is in the comics and Prime, I do not agree with you on Frontiers. You don't have to agree with me, but let me clarify a few things ( it's not long, don't worry ) 1. Ian Flynn did not write this story. Morio Kishimoto and Jyunpei Ootsu did. Flynn provided dialogue; the dialogue is not the story. Morio was also the director, so this is HIS game. Not Ian Flynn's. 2. Sonic didn't take orders from The End; it told him how to save his friends. Sonic asked for more clarity but didn't receive an answer. He decided to discover the island and find Amy, then ran into Giganto and figured he had to defeat it to help his friends. Sure, this was all a trick to trap Sonic between dimensions, and The End could be free, but it DID work. What else was he supposed to do? 3. He's not too trusting of Sage, nor is he defending her. She shows up and tells him to leave. He asks what the hell is going on, but she refuses to answer, telling him that "it won't matter; you've already lost." He's not soft and too trusting; she isn't always attacking him. You can talk to Sage in the open zones, and their interactions aren't hostile. He tells Knuckles that she is 'protecting' something or someone because she tells him to LEAVE. She attacks him because his actions are putting Eggman in danger, but he doesn't know that ( because The End is tricking him ). She doesn't say that because, at first, he's an enemy. But she doesn't tell later because she feels sorry for him. He has what she wants: a family born of love. It would be kinder if he and his friend didn't know what was going to happen. Also, he said that if the voice commanding him wanted to start trouble, he'll stop it. To me, Sonics' character in Frontiers was perfection.
The story isn't perfect, but it's not what I'm criticising. It's the characters, therefore the dialogue. The Japanese script handles the characters fine, the English script doesn't, which happened to be written by Ian Flynn. The End never mentions Sonic's friends, nor does it ever try to appeal to Sonic's interests or character. Sonic blindly follows it's orders for no reason. The JP script fixed this by having Sonic ignore the End entirely and finding his own way to save his friends, unknowingly ending up freeing the End regardless. Sonic IS too trusting of Sage because she gives him no reason to do so. She almost kills him the first time they meet, then she keeps information from him and continues to attack him.
Tbh I don't think it's entirely Flynn's fault, similar to Shadow in IDW, I think Sega has a really short leash on him, and he's doing the best he can to do something at least similar to what Sonic is like For an exemple, in IDW, most of Sonic's speeches are in another people's POV, Amy admiring her hero and Surge despising her rival. Do those could pretty much be exagerations of their POVs
I like to argue that it's more of Ian's fault than what most people see or think. In his bumblekast, he does states that he doesn't have a lot of freedom due to the Sega Mandates and he contradict himself in way that he sound like he has more wiggle room and I think if they were giving him a short leash on him... That would be the best to make sure he doesn't write Sonic into a completely different character, because with what Pixelrush crtizism of Sonic in the IDW, Flynn stated that he has more freedom of writing them however he wants, but not so much for Shadow. The Shadow thing... I believe that It was Ian's fault... Not Sega. He stated that he was given a lot of notes on how to write Shadow, but not so much on the other cast... But then someone else wrote Shadow for the TSR comics and got no notes being what Shadow was supposed to be, but Evan Stanley, but mostly Ian Flynn got the most notes than anyone on the writing team on how to write Shadow. Sega mandates are not a restriction, which IDW publishing a little before IDW Sonic came out stated that it's like a set of guidelines, but their not being restricted to make stories and writing the characters. This is a objective fact, since IDW broke their mandates since the early issues or the Metal Virus Arc even Prime broke it's mandates, too. If the mandates were a restriction... Almost any piece of Media that is Sonic related besides the movies are applied. Sega are the ones that supervises it, but whoever publishes it is all on IDW, their just telling them to follow this and no do that... So they can keep it on brand and not make it into something it's not... That's what mandates are suppose to do in any media. When reading the mandates, they do seem really dumb, but the more you think about it and understand what Sonic is... They do make some sense. For example, one of the mandates says "Sonic can't cry," which fits in line with what Pixelrush said about Sonic doesn't show a lot of his emotions a lot, but IDW does the opposite with a scene of Sonic crying. If you're referring to the writers POV, they could be a exaggeration of what's be going on behind the scenes. If you're referring to the comics, that could be the case, but I doubt it. I don't see it being a exagerations of their POV's of Sonic's speeches, but more so a exaggeration and misunderstanding of Sonic's character when reading the comics.
I had no idea. 😶 I never even thought much of Sonic's personality when watching the games' cutscenes as I watched them for the story. After watching this, it's a nice sum-up of Sonic's original characterization and later characterization.
You got a good point, I think that for now the writer is trying to get to know the character. In my opinion Frontiers is a good start they're trying to redeem the characters Let's just hope that in the future Sonic talks less and let his actions speak for himself I gotta say the example of how Frontiers should've gone is PEAK!! Kind of reminds me of Black Knight when Sonic gave Melina his advice and point of view of life.
One of the points that you didn't touch deeper, was the Sonic writing in Sonic Prime. I just finished the third season, and really hate what they've done to him. He just goes there forgiving any character that goes on the way. Is like a pacifist mindset, that frankly hate. After all of the destruction that Nine caused, he still forgives him, and it's like wtf? All characters were fine, forgetting all of the pain and trouble that previously Nine caused. I felt like I was watching Steven Universe again.
My problem with sonic in prime is how they try to give him a character arc. Like I don’t think Sonic should be prefect or whatever but he isn’t supposed to have arcs. He’s a flat character, someone who changes the world around them like how he helps tails find his confidence, helps chaos overcome his rage, helps blaze learn to conquer her demons and stop being a pariah, and so on
@@surenderreddy8144 yhh i agree with u guys, lets just make sonic a McGuffin and fuk any development, like with Shadow who finally became an interesting character for once again, if sonic didn't make a "Mistake" he would've have stayed bland & stagnant Or how about sonic friends why does he even need a team if he can do everything, its not like his gut instinct can be incorrect & he's mature & has no philosophy even though he knows eeg-man is a threat & hurts others but lets him live maybe sonic should kill egg-man. the End. everybody remains flat and Sonic 06-Loop Continues.
@@God-T thing is, sonic works best as a metaphorical character. He can sometimes lose and have flaws sure, but at his core he’s positivity incarnate. He doesn’t mature because he’s a constant of the world, someone whose ”arcs” are him embodying the arcs of other characters like how he embodies Shara’s defiance against the eraser djinn and how he helps her move past her broken relationship with him. For all its faults, even prime gets this part right with how sonic helps thorn rose overcome her obsession with protecting the overgrown forest
I think frontiers is supposed to be wiping a clean slate and preparing the characters, I think which it all did pretty well. but unfortunately doesn't give a lot of room for showing their personality as much but I think that's a bit of Sega meddling too. I want to also say we so rarely get the sonic you describe as your sonic, he's ALWAYS been wildly inconsistent game to game, and when we've only gotten like 2 actual sonic game stories since unleashed, one of which being forces (lol) it's a bit unfair. Idw has some oddities, but I don't think that sonic is THAT different than the black knight one. it's different, but it's way too overblown and he's not even character assassination imo. Too many reasons people list as why it's bad are directly contradicted by the actual games in the series, and I can just as easily argue "they don't understand sonic" just as much. The murder of sonic game is proof of them having a bit more room to actually write what they want, frontiers had a very messy background like the memory loss plot line the corruption sorta fizzling out, etc. I wouldn't be worried about the future if they actually fully devolped their stories which seems to be in line with the Sega revival they're doing in doing things right again this was a well made video tho!! I agree with sonic needs to be more focused in on his traits again but I don't think he's that different either.
Your made great points on Sonic. Growing up, I don't think I did like Sonic (probably because I grew up girly and thought he was meant for boys...which back then he would of been), but you know, seeing how weird I am, looking back on childhood things and comparing myself to this franchise, I suddenly grew to love the series. And it's probably thanks to Sonic X. I will say, I do agree and disagree with many of your points, Sonic having no care yet knowing he has to save the day. Yet the side of choosing good for everyone, letting them have the choice and realizing what has been repeated evil; I will say this. His personality now is reminding me of what Jesus would do, how he came to this world not to save it in a way many thought he would (if you read this and this applies to everyone, I speak of how a series "The Chosen" is showing of how Jesus interacted with the many that are different. I greatly suggest you and all to see it. And if for new things, you will see a new season 4 of the show coming to theaters February 1) And your portrayal of Sage was perfect, I did not like how she is portrayed as someone who would just shift to good as she showed in game. And 8:24-26, I love that quote.
I can see where you're coming from on this, and while I actually do love moments of Sonic being snarky/being a brat in some cases, I don't mind him being more positive and understanding. The way I interpreted Frontiers' writing is that it felt like the characters maturing in a way, sort of trying to push them in a way to grow more as people. I do want to add this too, while Ian may be more involved with the writing now of the games, he's still writing for a licensed property. I mean if you've wondered why in IDW Shadow acted like a bargain bins Vegeta (namely during the Metal Virus arc), that's directly due to SEGA's interference. I'm not gonna act like the man's someone who can never write something bad or has flaws, it's just I feel like it's important to remember that Sonic wasn't created by Ian and he doesn't have complete control and still has to work within SEGA's guidelines that can be very restrictive. Not saying the criticism was bad, I can definitely understand where you're coming from on that front, it's just that it's important to remember that I don't think the blame for the characterization is solely one person's fault.
Yep. I remember on Bumble Kast Ian talking about wanting to give Shadow more time and writing more in line with his 06 self but SEGA said nope and told him and staff to do what they did with him there and we see how that turned out. Like with most of the cast, the writing mostly falls with what SEGA wants.
@@HouseHawk62 Not really. Sega is a blame for a lot of things, which isn't wrong... But with how they wanted Shadow was completely different than what Ian did for Sonic IDW. It would be more so Ian's fault to be honest.
I completely rewritten his history to where he was from Japan originally but left for a better life in the uk 🇬🇧 so he learned English and find tails in his burn down town he raised tails and today is a wise patient brave hedgehog and a mayor of a town
10:11 uhhh...to be fair though ian flynn didn't wrote that part yeah he did said it in his podcast he wasn't behind this one keep that in mind there were other writers behind frotniers aswell so he didn't exactly had full control
I think that sonic frontiers's story is so diferent because ultimately our enemies are the guys sonic and his friends are trying to save which can bring these diferent interactions. Sonic said that he felt they weren't atacking him but protecting something and the only way of getting their trust is tagging along. Now if that's Sonic esque i don't know.I think Sonic can be more patient with who he's trying to save but i'm not the fanatic here so you tell me.
Personally, when breaking down what makes Sonic who and what he/it is, I like to use Sonic 1 as the ultimate point of reference. Everything we know about Sonic, all the characters, gameplay, aesthetic choices, they're all the trunk and branches that grew from the seed of Sonic 1, it is at the root of everything. Slight tangent to illustrate my point, but think about why loops exist in a game like Sonic Unleashed, or Colors, or Generations. REALLY think about it. If you were designing a game from the ground up with those same mechanics, in a world where the Sonic series, or Sonic 1 in particular, never existed, would you think to add loops? Are they a natural extension of the "boost, fill up boost meter with game objects, side step, drift, jump" mechanics, or do they exist in those games because the earliest game in their series built them in conjunction with its specific inertia physics gameplay? If you built Unleashed day gameplay from the ground up in a world without Sonic, you wouldn't have loops, or corkscrews. You wouldn't have the ring health system either, that comes from the needs of the pacing for that physics game, a way of having consequences that aren't too punishing and don't break the pace too much in a game where your movement is subject to physics like Sonic's. Levels would likely have more obstacles centered around skillful drifting, winding through twisting geometry to keep from slamming into walls. Like the Crash Bandicoot warthog levels at 1000 miles an hour. Changing the core of Sonic's gameplay changed the needs of all kinds of level and systems design, but kept certain things out of misplaced tradition because this is a Sonic game. They're not there as a natural extension of certain fundamental ideas, they're shallow references to what came before with no understanding of their purpose. And they did this with the characters too, with Amy, Sonic, and Shadow suffering the worst of it. Sonic taps his foot because tapping his foot is something Sonic did in Sonic 1. Forget WHY he was doing it, the underlying emotion that had him tapping his foot, the underlying personality informing that emotion, Sonic taps his feet in Sonic 1 so Sonic taps his foot in Sonic Frontiers. And it's the same for all the things Sonic does, to varying degrees, though later games have also been pulling from later sources. Sonic gives speeches in IDW and Frontiers because people REALLY liked when he did that in SA1, SA2, Secret Rings, Black Knight, ETC. But on a fundamental level, Sonic 1 wasn't referencing anything. The reason Sonic taps his foot in Sonic 1 is because he's pissed at the player for making him wait around for them to pick up the controller and play the game. He's pissed at the player because he's impatient, doing things on his own terms and in his own way is how Sonic lives, and you're making him wait around for you, he straight up bails on you if you do it in Sonic CD. We also know that Sonic is rebellious, cheeky, and defiant to figures of authority, partially because his antagonist, who represents the antithesis of his personality and worldview is an industrialist authoritarian, but more directly because he's expressing his impatience towards YOU, the player, for making HIM wait. You're WASTING HIS TIME and he's giving some serious side eye about it. We can also glean some of this from the finger wag on the title screen, an expression of defiance at the first glance. We also know that Sonic is determined, his straightforward, focused expression while running, driven to finish the task no matter what stands in his way. Sonic's entire, core personality comes from this game, and was the only version of Sonic in existence at the time of its release. Everything else is either a reference to it, in sequels and spinoffs, or a failure to reference it, and I MEAN EVERYTHING. If you're not building a Sonic story with this core idea of Sonic at the root of it all, you're not really writing a Sonic story, in the same way, if I wrote a story focused on Luigi from Mario and he wasn't a sniveling scaredy cat trying to be brave and save his friends and family, then I'm not really writing a Luigi story (I'd use Mario, but Luigi has an easier to explain personality). Sonic comes from Sonic 1, in every regard. You don't need to re-use Green Hill or the simple plot synopsis or the "Classic" Naoto Ohshima Sonic Aesthetic, because those are all surface level, comparatively superficial elements in the Sonic series. It's by coming to a deeper, more fundamental understanding of the series that we can find ourselves on the same page and start having productive conversations about this.
The worst part of the 2010 games as someone who likes about half of them is it made the entire fandom even more annoying about how Sonic should act because no matter how good or how bad a Sonic game show or movie is you're always going to find people fighting over how Sonic and the Gang should be acting
being honest, people are always talking about sonic showing mercy to his enemies like thats a new thing. he's always been doing that. and sonic written very similar to how he was in the 2000s. he hasn't devolved into a generic protagonist, he still is a adventure loving teenager, who plays by his own rules in sonic frontiers. ive been seeing too many people complain about Ian flynn even though he saved to series narratively speaking.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Ian Flynn's writing isn't significantly better than meta era, they're arguing that it's still not fully in character. Whether or not anyone agrees is ofc, up for debate, but I do think sonic is different. Also sonic showing mercy to his enemies isn't a new thing, true, but we've also seen him straight up abuse erazor djinn without batting an eye and kill the hell out of him. Sonic only tends to talk it out with an enemy either once they've shown a hint of humanity beforehand (blaze) or they've been defeated (also blaze, but obviously many more examples, like metal in heroes) Obviously all of those traits of sonic are still there, but I would argue that sonic was much less wordy and willing to go into a deep philosophical ideology with someone that already has their dukes up
@@igirjei3717 being honest... it really just depends on the circumstances. like, the end. sonic wasn't trying to reason with him. this is just a much more experienced sonic who has befriended so many enemies for him to see that there is another way.
@@IsaiahVance-nc1ow sure... but then he'll try to befriend an eggman robot who is physically incapable of defying his master. And where was this mercy for The End? Sure sonic doesn't go out of his way to kill but he's also never gone out of his way to ensure an enemy doesn't get harmed. He'll help or try to answer a question when he wants to, no doubt, sonic doesn't like to leave anyone hanging, but sonic will do what sonic does and it's not his problem if someone decided they want to get in the way of that
@@igirjei3717Yeah, I never understood why Sonic would try to defend Eggman, and get mad at others like shadow for not agreeing. Sonic said that they let shadow live, but Shadow eventually changed and was also altered by Gerald, so it was not all his fault. Sonic knowing Eggman won't change and protecting him from death doesn't make any sense. For the comics they just want to find a deep reason behind why Sonic doesn't kill Eggman in the games.
If you want to check out translated versions of the Sonic Channel stories, check out Windii's blog: browniehideout.wordpress.com/category/translations/side-stories/
In my personal opinion, I would have to disagree with your opinion on the IDW Sonic, I personally find him to be very kind-hearted and heroic, like having his own way to do the right thing instead of just something bold and dumb
This video is completely wrong.
Sonic X is my Sonic. A drifter but unable to stand by and watch when trouble strikes or even a paraplegic girl wants to go see flowers. He’s such a Chad in that show
What's funny is at one point the creators of Sonic says that Sonic X is an accurate representation of the cast, but I bet their referring to the JP.
Can I also add that Sonic in that show wasn't actually insufferable with the cockiness - dude like spending time alone, watching the view and just embracing peace and quiet
Of course, I'm talking abt Jap ver, 4Kids have a tendency to butcher characters in their dialogs
@@nerodoesart5886And they are right, since Sonic Team worked closely to the anime.
I literally cannot put into words how perfect that little rewrite between Sonic and Sage was. THAT is Sonic! THAT is what we've been missing. Those short, concise interactions that speaks for itself. "It's ok to be sad, it means you're alive". Phenomenal. Perfect. Genuinely fantastic. You don't need long-winded speeches about freedom and goodness to write Sonic. You just need the actions that define him, that troubles that overwhelmed the new character of that game, and Sonic saying a line or two that challenges their worldview, bringing that character out of the lie in their head and to the truth of who they really are.
In fact, by having Sonic give speeches like that, you are actively taking away from the other characters. All of the actions and dialogue to become developed is substituted by using Sonic's words as a crutch, instead of showing the character learning from his example. Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, etc are all fan favs because they followed this formula. But newer characters like Sage, The Forces OC, Surge, etc are stripped of the opportunity to learn and grow in their own way, because Sonic verbally does the work for them.
So in other words, just make his dialogue shorter and simplistic with no "talk no jutsu"
That re-wright in this video gave ME the impression that he just doesn't care... If he doesn't care about things like that, than why should I care about him? that's the same feeling that i got while watching Sonic X too. Free spirited little rodent that don't give a crap about anything or anyone. "As free as the wind!" Well, that Doesn't Give me anything to relate to. it just means that if I were to meet him irl, I won't be able to connect with him through conversation. He'd be a fast blue wall of 'screw you!' Well if that's all i'm getting, then 'screw you' back little hog, I'm out!
Sorry, that was Condescending... But you get my point, right? When Sonic was like that, he didn't feel like he had much heart to him. So when he DID do something good and or sweet for someone, it didn't feel that genuine - or at least not to me. ... Being vulnerable and talking about your thoughts and feelings is uncomfortable - sometimes even hurtful. it's natural to be scared to do that with someone. But if you are SO scared of doing it, that you can't even Express those things to your BEST Friend in the ENTIRE World!? ... congratulations, your character has now become lifeless! ... and we're back to the Condescending tone... oops... I also don't know how else to word it, soo.......there we go
@dmarkeafletcher3169 i agree with your part
@@Dmarkea315 People don’t need to go on whole monologues to express themselves or that they even care, in fact, Sonic used it to not need a single word to express his care.
He payed no mind to Tails following him and didn’t protest to Tails piloting his biplane, he stayed with Knuckles after Eggman betrayed him and stole the Master Emerald, he ran up to a chained Little Planet and eventually rescued Amy all without a second thought. In Sonic X, he saw Cream’s homesickness and ran miles to pick the best flowers he could find for her to make trinkets and accessories like she would with Vanilla.
Sonic’s truly a man of action, so his actions will always speak far louder than his words. Of course, someone more patient would stick around longer and try to talk about their feelings, that’s what characters like Tails and Amy are better at. For more fast paced characters like Sonic or Shadow, they wouldn’t stick around at all if they truly didn’t care.
@@God-xd1wr I suppose.. but doesn't a huge part of connecting with others come from communication? If he doesn't say his reasoning or intentions out loud ever, than how is anyone going to understand him? How will any misunderstandings be resolved? I mean sure, actions can speak louder than words, but there also comes a certain point where if you don't clarify to others what you're trying to do, then they're going to assume the worst of you and act on that. An' that will always damage a relationship. Constantly making Sarcastic comments and jokes really doesn't help either. As funny as it makes Sonic, all it does is make it that much harder to take him seriously, because what he says ain't ever what he means, while the doubts and misunderstandings on exactly what he does and why just pile up even further. If the Hedgehog goes long enough without making that clarification and understanding happen, then he's gonna become a fairly lonely guy - no matter how many people he saves.
ironically, I think the reason why sonic feels out of place all of a sudden is because he's.. compassionate now? at least when you look at it on the surface level. sonic was never the type of character to talk about his true emotions extensively, nor is he the kind of guy to have a specific overarching goal in mind. he just.. does what he wants. and part of what he wants is to simply be and feel alive the way HE wants to be. even if the situation is dire, even in the worst of times. and that simply extends to his exterior. he doesn't complement his friends or say things like "yeah, I believe in you", instead when the time comes.. he'd just smile at them before running off on his own to chase the main big threat, leaving his friends to deal with the enemy because he believes in them that much, without the NEED for the writers to show it off or attempt to write whole dialogue boxes of him reassuring his friends.
there's a reason why sonic telling tails and amy to take care of themselves in SA2 is such a big emotional moment that leaves a big impact on the player. its because it contradicts almost everything he said up until that point. because he genuinely believed he was going to die. and that brief switch up where he SHOWS his emotions becomes a much MUCH stronger moment, because he's not always compassionate all the time. its that same lack of compassion towards the military in SA2, or king arthur in black knight, that makes him such a cool character. and again, thats why sonic's iconic quote from black knight hits so hard in the end. because he recognized merlina to be a good hearted person, but her heard was simply in the wrong place. he didn't hesitate to take her side when he believed she was a good person, but he also never hesitated to take the other side when he believed her to be the bad person. and his quote at the end telling her that 'every life has its end' is how the writers showed us that sonic believes merlina to be a good person who simply needed correction. no overly heroic quotes, no nothing of the sort.
honestly, as far as sonic's interpretation goes, you're one of the few people in the community who I've seen fundamentally understand what made sonic such a charming character. and that's.. kinda sad.
I second this! The Adventure and Storybook games really needs to be the main example of how to write Sonic
Hello! I found your comment to be very well informed, and I enjoyed reading what you have to say. If I remember correctly, I do not remember Sonic complementing his friends at all before Sonic Heroes. For my child self, I think I always knew that he cared for all his friends. It was almost like a solved math equation, just known knowledge, never explicitly told, if that makes any sense. But all in all, I think the biggest point you stated is the one regarding Merlina (the big bad final boss in Black Knight? I think?). Merlina was able to indirectly showcase some good within her heart to Sonic (good specifically meaning whatever he perceives good to be). In the present day, I think Sonic might be lacking that ability to detect genuine good. What I mean by this could be demonstrated with someone like Surge The Tenrec (I have only seen screenshots of their battle and do not know her entire motivation, so I apologize for any incorrect information). Surge is one of those characters that could be considered almost "beyond broken." She has her entire purpose as "destroy Sonic," and that almost always makes her a threat to Sonic in some way. Now, I do not believe that Sonic would entirely destroy her if she did not present herself as a threat, but I do think that Sonic would not have tried talking to her as much in their battle (If I remember correctly, he was pretty much trying to convince her the entire fight). Threats to Sonic are not acceptable to him, and he, in my honest opinion, would have shut that down pretty quick against Surge. My overall point is that Merlina being a good person was able to be seen by Sonic, which is why he does not get rid of her completely like some other evil creatures with no sense of remorse (Another theory is that they obviously cannot showcase Sonic absolutely merking some girl, lol!) But I hope you enjoyed my little paragraph; I did with yours!
Black Knight may not have been a great game, but its story was peak sonic.
Its actually really decent game if you get used to the controls 😗
@@raphaelbrown6314Controls aren’t even that bad. The stick on the nunchuck is soooo much better for maneuvering, and I love the feeling of slashing with the sword. It’s like if Legend of Zelda was a rail shooter/slicer. It could’ve been a great subgenre.
Secret rings was also a decent story
@@Youraverageveiwer The Storybook games are gems when it comes to Sonic storytelling
And gamers complained about it regardless back then, resulting in the tonal spiral we’re in now.
It feels like the fanbase is its own worst enemy.
DUDE, you hit EVERY nail on the head on this topic, especially the part where Ian’s work on Frontiers just wasn’t great. Every video I’ve seen similar to this gets some things right imo but later in their videos completely stray off. At some point I would’ve gone out of the way to make a video like this myself (even though I have no experience with video creation) lol. Thanks for creating this and HOPEFULLY, TONS of people find this and help with bringing change to the series
That whole line about the fanfiction bleeding into official media... I always thought I was alone in that kind of mindset.
It's going to be an agonizing wait until we get characters like we did in TMOSTH, I feel like...
Ironically, that basically was fanfiction
@@WSBM14 Well, TMOSTH did have more direct involvement with with Sega (their social media team)
Oh please... it's not like the current characterizations are terrible or anything I'm actually kinda fine with current characterizations of the characters specially with Amy in IDW I wouldn't say it's perfect though for sure! But for the most part it's still good though.
I agree that Sonic was a bit naive towards Metal and Eggman in IDW, but everything else in the comic is on the mark. Overall I think we need more “show don’t tell” when it comes to the cutscenes.
and what if that's the Problem!. Sonic Prime is a good example of a mix Bag which i kind of like he's not a perfect McGuffin who saves the day, even Sonic needs to realize he makes mistakes or needs to rely on his team if he gets too cocky winning all the time what would b th point of his friends, and without sonic prime we wouldn't have gotten a good Shadow or Nine Episodes, You can't do that with a stagnant character.
That storytelling rule is probably easier said than done in terms of video game writing. In-game cutscenes tend to have a limited number of assets to use, which means that most of the scenes have to be conveyed through dialogue.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 @geoffreyrichards6079 Eh, the 2000s managed to pull of a mix of "show and tell", which is not perfect, but good enough for the story they wanted to tell.
The story of Frontiers (and to a much larger extent, the story in the comics which Ian worked on before), tended to lean on "tell don't show". This is despite the comics have much more freedom when it comes to assets they could use compared to the games.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 True, and say what you wish about the dialogue cutscenes, but previous games had speech bubbles while Frontiers has voice acting and some character animation.
that's such a broad thing to say imo. telling isn't wrong either
Well in my opinion, I see Sonic as a free spirit who goes where he wants, whenever he wants. And loves Adventure too! 💙
If Sonic Loves Adventure 2, He Might Like Adventure 3 When It Exists…
@@FoxMcLox lmao
But also cares about his friends,saving people the best he can and also seeing the good in people his not just about freedom and adventures my dude
@@raphaelbrown6314 saving people and whatnot comes under things he likes to do.
@@FoxMcLox I see what ya did there 😂
I've been saying this about Sonic for about 2 years now. I didn't really grow up on the Sonic games, I only got into the fandom as a teen/adult. So I mainly noticed this problem in the IDW comics.
Sonic, for all of his unpredictability, has always been a deeply compassionate character. He is also a fixer. He sees something he doesn't like? Boom tackled. He sees someone scared and alone? He'll get them somewhere safe and will cheer them up in the process. And I think that that's nothing new. Anyone can claim that and they wouldn't have broken any new ground. The problem is that Ian Flynn and other writers over in IDW, in their attempt to make Sonic appear compassionate, they've actually managed to do the opposite.
The first time Sonic battles with Surge, Surge lays out her entire pain and frustrations, at how Starline has screwed with her head in such a violating way, that she can't even think straight. She doesn't know if the thoughts she is thinking and the emotions she is feeling are even hers or Starline's tampering. And Sonic is over there BRUSHING the entire thing off! As if it's nothing!! He keeps spewing his meaningless platitudes and escalating the situation!! If I was Surge I'd want to bash his skull in too!! Why is Sonic being such a duchbag to the victim of the situation here?!?! Just because his words were dressed nicely, didn't mean he wasn't any less of an insensitive ass!!
Yeah Sonic very rarely has taken serious situations seriously, but he has never been this cruel to someone who was in such pain!
Further back, during the Zombot arc, Sonic keeps ensisting that leaving Eggman be, was the right choice while the world is burning down around him and his friends get hurt! This entire thing infuriates me even more, because for all his talk about freedom, by making the decision to leave Eggman unchecked, because of AmNeSiA, he takes away the freedom from everyone else that might want justice!! Eggman has hurt a lot more people, than just him! It's not up to him. He can't forgive Eggman on behalf of all of his victims. Not on behalf of Amy, for every time he's kidnapped and put her in danger to get to him. Not on behalf of Knuckles, for all the times he took advantage of him and endangered his home. Not on behalf of Shadow, for lyin and, manipulating him, that resulted in the poor guy having an identity crisis, which was SO bad it was the plot of an ENTIRE GAME!
In their desperate attempt to make Sonic more compassionate, they've turned him into the biggest d*ck on the planet and I HATE it!
Funny how the Sonic and Surge interaction in IDW ends up giving the opposite effect of the Sonic and Merlina one in Black Knight despite the former seemingly trying to achieve the same goal as the latter
His characterization seems more in line with his Archie depiction, to be honest. I guess maybe that’s the problem.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 Yeah, that's part of the problem.
The thing is, Archie Sonic doesn't even preach as much as IDW does. He's more of a quippy, arrogant, asshole. Even then, at least Archie Sonic had a character arc that made him grew out of that negative traits
@@ryannathaniel9296 This is why I prefer archie sonic, he feels like a genuine real person that I'd WANT to literally meet irl, or someone similar like him irl at least.
@@SpectacleSpark Same here. Someone who could see their own wrongdoings and is willing to grow to be a better person is much better than a self-righteous asshole who couldn't see themselves doing any wrong
Knowing how much you love and are attached to Archie Sonic, I have a lot of respect for still understanding and respecting Sonic’s canon personality. Doesn’t happen often with how diverse the community and the media they consume is
Well I started with Sonic X and the games. I haven't read all of Archie and I watched bits and pieces of the other cartoons.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan X is such a great entry point into the series. Very happy it exists
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelManso u want so to be mean to his friends and others around him. And sonic is not a mean and rude to his friends and others around him he is kind and a nice guy right?
@@bridgetthonnold1289 In Sonic X he isn't what I would call "mean", he's actually shown to be very considerate like when he notices Cream is having negative thoughts so he goes and picks flowers for her. He just isn't polite in the conventional way we humans tend to be.
He doesn't worry about how his friends will do without him because he believes in them often more than they believe in themselves. So when he does stuff like run off without a word or do things sporadically as he does (like when he was destroying Eggman's sunlight devices). Sure, sometimes his absence leads to his friends being in trouble and he's been confronted for that by Chris (Ep. 2 when he scolds Sonic for putting them all in danger when trying to save cream), but he says that he could've messed up so he didn't and so all's well that ends well.
Essentially as long as things turn out okay he won't hold a grudge against others and he won't hold a grudge against himself either, and he has that optimism that things will turn out okay when he goes for a run because he believes in his friends as I said earlier.
Sorry for the paragraphs but I just love Sonic X's characterizations
2:39 the thing about this is that jp sonic, the one that sonic team actually cares about, remained consistent, (exempting lost world where they made him have a character arc which is stupid), it was only in west did sonic become inconsistent, essentially splitting him into two different versions of the same character like what was done back in the 90's
For sure.
Idk, I don’t really see how he’s been “more” consistent over in Japan compared to the USA, I think it’s exactly the same mostly. I’m really sorry to say but every time I look at the sonic games with subtitles in Japanese, it’s just the same thing as in the English version. Like I remember I watched the cutscenes of black knight or sonic forces in Japanese and I looked at the wording and I thought to myself, “sure a few words are changed here and there, but not enough to make that much of a difference. Overall it’s just sonic, but in Japanese.” That’s all, it’s just the same thing, but in Japanese. I’m sorry if I sound frustrated it’s just that, I’ve spent hours looking at cutscenes of sonic games and even videos explaining why they love JP sonic more than sonic in English. But every time I look at those cutscenes in Japanese, it ends up being just, the same sonic, but in Japanese, that’s it, that’s the only difference. So, I guess I just don’t understand what the difference is really, I’m sorry I don’t see the difference that you see, but they look exactly the same to me.
@@BlueTyphoon2017I am going to slap you, did you read the corrected translation made by the fans? There's a bunch of mods that restore and fix the translation of sonic games because they suck, if you actually watched those in the corrected version you wouldn't be saying this.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 well that's mainly because the games just put the English script subtitles onto the Japanese dialogue. They don't really reflect the actual Japanese script.
You know what.....
I did not realised this flaw of IDW and Frontiers.....and i kind of agree
I find a bit funny how Frontiers Sonic feels like an evolution of Meta era Sonic and Prime Sonic fells like a devolution of Adventure-Black Night Sonic
I agree. Frontiers Sonic might not be the best for the fans of 2000s Sonic, but at least it doesn't alienate the fans of Meta Era Sonic
Nah...sonic prime happened before black Knight so it's not really a devolution of it takes place before..black Knight but I do agree making sonic prime canon just... doesn't make any sense
while i do agree with SOME things, i feel like we didn't play the same game, to each their own but
sonic DID do his own thing
sure he's being led by the end, but he went off on his own mindset, he saved his friends because HE wanted to do it, not because he was supposed to
and all the trouble he caused during the game, was on his own account, he was the one who decided to push forward no matter the situation, sure he prevented knuckles, but being trapped on a mysterious island he'd like SOME answers as to what's happening
he also fights through corruption to climb six towers and exclaims "careful? where's the fun in that?" which is undeniably a sonic quote
But at the same time... He is right about some more things like Sonic being overly preechy like IDW, which is there in Frontiers and how he doesn't show his actions, but you just hear words coming out of Sonic's mouth.
But also I like to add that he strangely wanted to wrap up helping the Kokos and say something like that they could help themselves like he sounded like he didn't care about helping them further more and wanted to find his friends than help the Kokos in the first island then... He goes back to wanting to help the kokos and his friends with Knuckles and Tails but in Black Knight... He saw someone in need and was willing to help them and resolve their issues before continuing on his journey, but Frontiers was like "Sure let's help the Kokos" to "let's leave them, they can find their own way" in one island then he pretty much says this "Well, we still haven't found Tails... We've be wrangling up children's around and taking detours this whole way," which pretty much started a little argument between Amy, which Amy is sort of right with what she said, but at the same Sonic was right as well even though it was out of character for him to say like he did point out what they were doing was pointless, which he was right, but in character... He never would have ever said that.
Pretty much he didn't do his own thing... Literally what the voice told him was exactly what he did and did the same for the rest of the game.
Yes, that is true that the trouble that he caused was from his own account, because he listen to the voice in the sky and he did those things himself.
Also, of course he saved his friends because he wanted to because... Their his friends. He did care more about his friends than the harmless little creatures in need.
He never really got those answers though and just went "okay, how about some context" and said "some direction is better than none. Here we go!" He would have just hear the voice speak to him and just did mostly his own thing on how he found or help his friends unless he needed assistance, which the voice was kinda that.
I like how the JP does it best because he does ask the voice in the sky, about the his friends but then he just didn't care that they didn't gave them the answer and just said "Looks like I'll find them myself... This is getting interesting."
In the english, he just ask for where are his friends and context about why he's here and where they are and he was serious on finding his friends and saving them from cyberspace, but JP Sonic has just one goal was to find his friends and sounded more like he going to have more fun doing it, but he still listened to the voice in the sky for assistance like the English.
@@nerodoesart5886 i aint reading allat
@@kaosagamerreal You don't have to. I ain't forcing you.
@@nerodoesart5886 Agreed, I never felt that the voice was guiding Sonic, the guy traversed the islands by himself the voice only gave context.
@@kaosagamerrealyou literally did the same thing. Dont be an ass bro
"You don't play Mario for the rich narrative and deep characters"
Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi fans : Are we a joke to you ?
Well, sticker fans are
@@Toaferts I guess so ^^'
😴😴💤💤
I’m getting really sick and tired of the whole “Mario Characters aren’t interesting and have zero personality” thing. Like would it kill people to play any of these games.
@@nathanielamoah1127 The Mario characters are incredible for sure. But it's true that the mainline games fail to show that, sadly.
i’ve been watching sonic prime and honestly i love it regardless but it absolutely also suffers from this problem. sonic just isn’t The Guy like he used to be. he used to be a man of few words who just kind of showed up and flipped everyone’s world upside down and then left as fast as he came. he was cool and unchanging and confident and a little sassy. i like how prime rescued shadow from being the edgy guy who hates everyone and is just mad always and i love all of the voice acting but basically every character other than shadow was kind of.. butchered. they also still have no idea what to do with amy😭
This‼️When watching Sonic prime I don’t know man.. I found asking myself A LOT. “Is this really Sonic the Hedgehog?” His character was really dumbed down in the series which is a reason why I prefer SonicX in the aspect of how they write the characters. Which is in my opinion has the best portrayal of the characters. Like you said,
“Sonic **used** to be a guy with few words who kind of showed up and flipped everyone’s world upside down” When reading IDW idk man he just yaps a lot 😭 and as well in Sonic prime. Especially when trying to reason with someone. “This isn’t you Nine! We can fix this!” And then yaps another essay 😪 And the craziest thing is, he achieved to reason with VERY little words with Merlina in black knight.
Yeah and the thing that prime and idw are supposed to be canon and such...
@@chickuwu518 Exactly, and honestly. That dosent sit right with me.. they don’t feel like they’re the same characters
@@AmyRoseReal i like that you brought up merlina because she really wasn't all that different from nine, and yet the way they wrote sonic handling the situation was just drastically different. satbk sonic didn't waste time by trying to reason with merlina, even saying that he didn't mind being the villain, and they were literally duking it out to the death, meanwhile prime sonic spends 6/7 episodes in s3 saying "let's work it out nine!" like 10 different times to no avail.
i get that nine is another version of tails so sonic would probably have some kind of attachment to him anyway, but they tried way too hard to make sonic all sad about it when in reality he probably would have drawn the line and given up on trying to reason with nine as soon as he started threatening other people's lives as a way to get to sonic.
sonic prime's sonic has to be one of the worst portrayals of the character tbh. he's extremely dumbed down and incompetent and has to get saved by shadow all the time. Not to be dramatic but that's character assassination to me lol
Sonic is always a positive character that I look up to. SatAM Sonic is my top favorite adaption of all time. Sonic helped me with my personal life; to be more positive and not give up hope. Thank you, Sonic.
SatAM Sonic should be a gold standard as to how to portray Sonic in continuities. You have a storyline where he can be serious and even get emotional, but at the same time he still has the sense of optimism, like you know things will eventually turn out alright because Sonic's there.
@@SBaby Exactly
@@SBaby broooo thats what i was going to say my dude
@@SBabyI dunno. SatAM Sonic comes across as a bit of a bully at times. I don’t think that’s an appropriate element to bring back.
@@SBabybased PFP
I feel as though we here in the west got screwed by early translation/localization choices, and so now we have like 5 different possible interpretations of Sonic, while in Japan, he basically never changes.
Funniest part is Sonic is more popular in the west. I partially think it’s BECAUSE there are so many interpretations of him here that he can fit whatever people see as cool in their mind. To me, he’s the big brother everyone wants and Tails is the lens for the audience especially in the earlier game but then he splits off to Jaleel, Ryan, Jason, Roger, Ben, and Deven so there’s really a type of Sonic for all
@@laserbeamlightning well, makes sense. I think here, in the west, we just want a cool character from our own perspective, like the heroes in Marvel.
@@elmemearana well Sonic is unique in that he was initially popular because he was a perfect blend of cute and cool. Round like most cute animal characters and mascots but spiky at the same time to signify his coolness. When they updated the designs with adventure they leaned into the cool side more which led to more westerners being drawn to him (Japanese prefer cute overall) so I see him as a pretty Japanese American creation. He was created by a Japanese guy initially but the American team put in the legwork to tell Sega what NOT to do and then they leaned into appealing to Westerners afterwards
@@laserbeamlightning when you want to say "american team", you say about SoA, right? Since they were in cargo of SoJ's decisions regards to Sonic.
Also, from what I remember, Adventur-ish Sonic and even Modern Sonic in general is a bit more popular than Classic Sonic in Japan (and his jp classic design still had this cute aura).
I dunno. I can’t really see them keeping that consistency in a dubbed series like “Prime”, especially when SoJ is declaring it to be canon.
Excellent video, dude.
And message received loud and clear on the Scrapnik Island bit at 4:13 haha
Next time I get a shot at writing Sonic, my goal is to improve
Hey man, love your work. It's all out of love, we're all Sonic fans. Looking forward to what you do next!
absolutely!
we’ll get Sonic back to where he needs to be. I know we can do it.
keep making great videos
You're better than Flynn, so you're half way there man
@@freezeblazestar1079 i agree with the first half, just not calling him a freak
I really appreciate that people are recently exposing this insane character assassination among the cast in the official mainline games and stories like you, pariah, and some other third TH-camr. I really hope Ian Flynn decides to listen and change up how his writing if he keeps writing for the series.
I wouldn't say character assassination it just the way they are written in IDW and frontiers doesn't click with people like him.. but I wouldn't say character assassination because the writing doesn't go against what the characters are as awhole actually there are some people actually like this characterization
Okay, I get what you mean, but I think Sonic having a philosophy that involves wanting people to be free to live their lives isn’t necessarily inconsistent with his character. I mean just look at how he reacted to Perfect Chaos. I refused to just lock Chaos away in the Master Emerald again or kill him. He wanted to help Chaos FINALLY let go of their anger and move on. (He also said it in a pretty wordy way.)
Even for characters like Metal Sonic, after kicking his ass in Sonic Heroes he just left Metal to choose what he does next.
Love it or hate it, this isn’t really that out of character.
Exactly, plus he was a lot worse in archie despite what people think. He not only consistently bullied some of his closest friends, but he even assumed that someone like Tails worshiped him and he'd get over any bad blood the two had with each other. Like, how can anyone call him a hero at times when he does stuff like that. At least with IDW, we see the positives and while sometimes he can be preachy, it comes from his experiences and what he chooses to do. It's called character development after all, otherwise we'd just the same incarnation over and over again.
Exactly my guy to honest that was always been sonic from the beginning hell even archie and satam did this the dude is not a monster or a killer he may do his thing his own way but the guy cares saving people and seeing the good in everyone kinda like spider-man but difference honestly i don't think this dude in the video understands sonic either like come now if thats the case then way didn't he just killed chaos same with shadow,knuckles,saga, surge and kit 😗
@grizzakaful well sonic has his moments in the archie comics sure but he still a hero and still have plenty moments were still cares about everyone especially with sally and tails thats just sonic being sonic and a teenager at that and he did apologize to tails about his parents and he did make things right with sally before the genesis wave and gotten roboticize and other times bullies were he bullies his friends were at time he was messing with them its not that deep my guy and other times he just doesn't know any better and could have worded the stuff he says abit wisely so i'll give you that
Yeah but in Metal's case, he just let him go without having Tails at least try to make him stop being so obedient to Eggman.
Even in the Genesis/Meta Drive era this was the case, with there being a bio that losted crying as one of his dislikes. It was less of "don't cry I don't like that" and more like "hey, don't cry, everything's gonna be all right"
I'm glad you actually acknowledged Japanese Sonic. At least SOJ always had an idea on who and what they want Sonic to be instead of switching his personality around, unlike how SOA is handling it
THANK YOU, I absolutely agree and now I have a perfect video to show as to why! I've been really dissatisfied with the Sonic franchise as of late because of the character writing and you explain how jarring it is to see compared to old stuff very well. Sonic has been and always will be my favourite character of all time, but to see him being subdued and made palpable has been frustrating as a long time Sonic fan, not to mention an adult. Don't get me wrong, I am aware Sonic at the end of the day will be marketed towards kids above all else, but Sonic as a character is enjoyable for all ages. Lately though, he does feel very generic and it's incredibly cathartic to see others not only agree, but put it into words so well that perfectly encapsulate what I personally dislike with where the Sonic franchise is now.
You nailed it. Especially when Sonic looks away and says "it's okay to be sad, it means you're alive"
i always saw sonic as character defined by actions more than his words like you said. and even the words he does use are very consistent, simple and doesn't try to preach. this is probably why black knight's one-liners works so well in my eyes. a phrase like "it was never about chivalry for me. i just gotta do what i gotta do. that's all" is short and sweet. you know exactly from the line what sonic is about. you know that he follows his own way and doesn't deviate from it. the fact that this one line is so simple and short also aligns with sonic's character, being fast and all. even the line "isn't there more to being a knight than just serving a king?" doesn't exactly imply a mentality sonic is trying to preach, but rather a straightforward, thought-provoking question. ultimately, he continue to follows his own path while letting others follow theirs, without blatantly stating a specific lesson.
7:08 THIS right here is how Sonic should always be. He should just give words of wisdom and not be the voice of reasoning, now its not bad for Sonic to want and try to talk to them but he didn't try to do it everytime he meets the enemy he only talk once and if it didn't work he's ready to fight. I will still Say Frontiers is a step forward when it comes to a Sonic story but there are a few things that could of differently been done better, also more Gex
Good video. I like the writing in Frontiers, and to me it felt like a ‘reboot’ if you will so we can get over the bad writing of the past few games and get good again.
How was it a reboot if they canonized all the games that came before it and even the 2010s I one game. Unless you're saying it's a soft reboot and not a hard one.
Dude!!!! Ok, this is the first video from you that I’ve come across, and oh my word you are SPOT ON. My friend (who recommended this video to me) and I have been freaking out over text for the past 15 minutes because everything you say in this video captures PERFECTLY our recent frustrations with Sonic’s portrayal! Thank you so much for putting it all into words!!
“Sonic doesn’t HAVE a philosophy. He acts on instinct and lets his actions speak for him, not his words.”
YES. THANK YOU. SOMEONE GETS IT 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
IDW is spinoff.
Is this why Sonic Prime is canon? In the first season, Sonic acts completely out of instinct and in doing so lead to a massive mistake that beat a painful haunting lesson into his head. Moving forward now, he's changed.
Not even Sonic himself would crash against the gem of unknown power instead of Eggman, the plot starts in basis of something he'd never do.
@@dragondelsur5156I wouldn't say that's true, but sonic would definitely at least hear out his friends instead of rolling his eyes at needing to be careful, and he'd have actually his head in the game instead of going at it like it's a scheme of the week
7:37 I’m sorry but the idea of Sonic smiling at the thought of fight a KID. Now that just seems wrong
Yeah, I think Frontiers handled Sonic’s relationship with Sage fine. Sonic could at least sense that Sage isn’t our evil and words are more persuasive than violence.
fun fact for those who came in late...:
one of the promotional CGI cutscenes showed Sonic weak from the cyber corruption, and in a feat of desperation willingly tried to PUNCH Sage in the face! (but gets knocked back by her force shield)
this has nothing to do with the main story of Frontiers, but i thought i had to leave this out there for those who didn't know it
@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL
Yeah, I remember that. The difference is sonic doesn’t look happy about the fight. He doesn’t grin like a psychopath at the thought of attacking a child. In the cinematic, it came across as a last stitch self-defense.
If Sage was a normal kid, sure, but Sage can manipulate Titans strong enough to kill Sonic easily and she can fire energy projectiles. Her being a kid doesn't mean she's as weak as a normal one, and Sonic clearly knows this.
The fact that it took this video for me to realize just what was missing from his character for a while is absolutely amazing.
I really do hope SEGA takes some notes from this, because just that small rewrite between Sonic and Sage incapsulated the personality that even got me hooked on this series in the first place.
Sonic in the 1990s-2000s: A bit of a cocky lad who just likes adventure, will do whatever it takes to make things right, wasn’t that much of an idiot, knew when to take things seriously, actually cared about his friends and overall an actual character. He was actually cool.
Sonic in the 2010s: *Literally just family friendly deadpool.*
Sonic in the 2020s (so far.): Just like every other hero.
Movie Sonic: Literally a kid.
Prime Sonic: Completely stupid.
There, summarised it here… I think.
prime sonic: childish superhero
fixed that for you
also boom sonic: middle aged superhero
@@joeser6666 That’s a lot better, thx
I definitely get what you mean. I think what you're getting at is Sonic's "ethos" so to speak was more an observation rather than a geared he actively tries to spread and promote as a virtue.
There was a fundemental subtlety to how he was handled and how he acts and behaves that i think Ian tends to not be the best at. In general with his writing really.
I dont hate him either. Just an honest criticism I've had for a while.
Yeah, for lack of a better term, Sonic just...doesn’t give a fuck. He does what he wants, but he’s not gonna preach about it. What others do is their business.
Which gives me more inspiration for my version of Sonic. I want him to start off with being like he was in the Archie comics, going through the same process of character development as in the Archie comics, leading to him becoming more of what he used to be, just for more character dynamic and to have more of an effect and events that impact his character. All the development and struggle will lead to the Sonic we always knew
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan I don't think it's that he doesn't care necessarily. If Sonic really didn't care or 'give a fuck', then he'd likely just let Eggman do whatever he wanted to the world and not bother trying to stop him, because why should he care. I think it's more that Sonic doesn't really know how to show that he cares the way he should and that he might be more than a little in denial. He acts tough and cool in front of everyone, but in reality any time he fails to do something, it eats him on the inside.
He definitely cares about others and has a sense of justice. He hates seeing others suffer, and doesn't like people to be sad. He just doesn't handle grief in the best manner, either because he's encountered it too many times, or because he's just not used to encountering it.
The PROBLEM is that Ian Flynn has a bad habit of getting really carried away when trying to make Sonic overly dramatic. And my biggest fear is this is going to happen to the games now that he's in charge of them. He's already entertaining the possibility of doing a Sonic game based on the Metarex Saga from Sonic X (his name is actually on a savecosmo petition, and I'm being dead serious here), and we know what happens there.
I don't mind having drama in Sonic, and Sega could definitely do worse than to give Sonic some real character growth beyond the stereotypical personality he's known for having. Also I have nothing against the Metarex Saga (hell, I'm a Taismo fan). But you can have too much of a good thing, to the point where you lose what made the character memorable in the first place. You have to be careful and make sure there's a balance. And yes, fans will notice this, because we like continuity in Sonic. We like to see how the characters are affected and how the storylines build from the previous ones.
@@SBabyI think you hit the nail on the head here. The thing people forget is that Sonic is a teenager and like a lot of them, they can be cocky from time to time but Sonic is a cool drifter but at the same time the kind who will get involved with people’s problems if he can help them. The Sonic X episode with Helen still is the most genius piece of writing in the series I’ve seen just based on his interactions with her. He’s got a short temper to boot ofc when his friends get hurt but he’s shy around Amy cause yes he does like her back. Ian’s style just tends to be overwritten but I wouldn’t outright call it inconsistent. That said character moments like the Sage one in this video are sorely missing. Remember when Sonic helped Blaze open up to others? He needs to have a Goku type role where his kindness and optimism is what brings about the change
Sonic is essentially the video game version of Luffy from One Piece
So your version is...
Sage: close to death
Sonic: IM TURNING MY BACK ON YOU! YEEAAHHHHH!!!!!!
Well, I’ll always understand him!
me too..
Weeks ago I started a new playthrough of Sonic Frontiers, this time with a bunch of mods to fix all the annoying things from the game. One of the mods I used was Wiindi's Japanese Translation mod, which replaces all the english subtitles for accurate translations of the japanese script. Despite the game clearly being made with the english dub in mind, with a lot of phrases not matching what characters are doing the cutscenes when you play with the japanese voices, I soon realized the japanese script is better than Ian Flynn's script.
It is not perfect, and some parts are 1:1 copies of the english version, but Sonic sounds way more consistent with how he was written the previous games. Sage's characterization is a lot better in japanese imo. From the beginning it is made clear she attack Sonic because that's what she was programmed do to, to protect Eggman. She quickly understands Sonic's actions would impose a threat to Eggman, so he commands the Titans to attack him. In english she talks like she was protecting the Starfall Islands, but in japanese she hates Sonic.
Sonic's relationship with her is handled better in japanese. He just doesn't want to stop to talk with someone who spouts a lot of nonsense at him when he busy looking for his friends. This is more consistent with Sonic not wanting to waste time helping the Koco later in the story. Also, Sage doesn't call Eggman "father", she calls him "the doctor" in japanese. What is up with Ian Flynn's obsession with trying to redeem Dr. Eggman in IDW and now the games?
For Amy's portrayal it is still hit or miss because the japanese script still tries to erase Amy's core characteristics, but I think her arc is better explained in japanese. She comes to the conclusion she's been acting shortsighted in her quest for love, and in order the get what she wants, she has to do some soul searching of her own, which Sonic finds "dazzling". It is not shakespeare, but it sounds far better to me than "I have to go on my own to spread love to this world", which is what she's been doing since her introduction in 1993! Argh!
A scene when Sonic meets Giganto for the first time he is so casual in japanese when he looks at him and says "Man, this guys is stupid huge".
The Knuckles section in Ares is pretty much the same as the english script. I fact, it is the only part I would say it is better than the japanese version because the dialogue felt more natural, and some dialogue between Sonic and Knuckles in jap felt odd to me.
Tails is straight the a glow up from Ian's version. On the surface it is the same conclusion Tails arrives as in the english script, but in japanese Sonic says to Tails "I'm always rooting for you to grow", which is a sharp contrast to Ian's "I'm not ready for you to grow up so fast". Ian's version makes Sonic sound selfish, like he is afraid Tails will realize his potential and leave his shadow. I think the intention was to make it more like a young brother dynamic, but japanese Sonic sees Tails as his equal and understands there are things on he can do, and other Tails is better at.
It is so weird how the japanese script was written later by Morio Kishimoto and Jyunpei Ootsu, but still gets Sonic more right than Ian Flynn. I'd like to see a Sonic game fully written these two. Sonic is at best when it is written by japanese writers.
You know when you say sonic doesn't want to waste time to help the kocos or...waste his time with sage when he was looking for a way to save his friends you do realize that he did that in the English version too right?
Also as for tails and sonic that's not what happened in the English version he was never afraid of tails to realize his full potential he instead said ((well I guess you grow up a little faster than I expected)) and later he said to tails something about ((hoping to reaching new heights partner)) like that's what he said in the English version are you sure we played the same sonic frontiers because that's not what exactly happened!
While I understand that having Sonic being written differently in all the mediums that's been released could be irritating to some, I genuinely love all the character writing for him across the years. I love seeing how people portray him, official or not. He's a fun and interesting character that you can fit into almost any type of media and you'd get a story out of it.
There's been a lot of arguing over how Sonic should be characterized and it's starting to aggravate me. I just say let people interpret him however you wish.
Well the problem people don't let others interpret Sonic as they want, every time it's done game fans consider it a damage to the game line even though it's stated to be alternative take.
The only time I can understand game fans backlash is with IDW and Prime Sonic because people behind it are responsible for stating these versions are the same as game one and they deserve fair criticism.
That's the problem. The fact that you can just make Sonic, however you want, is basically telling that Sonic doesn't have a personality. By interpreting him as anything, that basically means he's nothing.
It might need some slight improvement, but if I'm being honest I like where Sonic is now.
Same bro
Actually, I think the problem might be that they're focusing on Sonic's character TOO much.
Hear me out here. There was something about Sonic's character that was so effortless. Nothing seemed forced or anything with him, he was always just laid back and easy to understand just the way he was. Yes, he's a complex character, but there was nothing hard to understand about him.
Nowadays they're springing for character growth. Which I LOVE, and you can't use the same mascot for decades and not have him experience that, I get it. So maybe they're trying to actually GIVE him a moral compass. I totally support that. It's the fact that it was just... out of nowhere that makes it a little odd. What INSPIRED him to start developing his already existing morals into something drastic like this? Seemingly nothing, and THAT'S where I take issue.
I personally don't mind his actions in IDW or Frontiers. They're trying to make him a deeper, more mature character with an obvious moral, and I like that. But they're taking his natural deep compassion and dialing it up to umpteen, so the effortlessness of his character gets completely drowned.
Is the writing in Frontiers or IDW perfect? No. But I enjoy it a heck of a lot more than when the series was imploding itself by making him into a pun machine in games meant for kids.
I can't agree with the growth angle, but it does feel like they're doing a lot more telling than showing. Sonic is a character who's effortlessly interesting. When you try and explain why he's so deep and interesting, you kinda lose a lot of the charm.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan THAT. THAT, YES. Sonic has ALWAYS been more action than talk. And while I love some of the dialogue, it can be a bit distracting.
Sonic used to be inspiring without even trying. He never forced people to change. Now he's trying too hard.
Ooooh, I see now, always knew people were complaining, knew something had to be off, but never knew what it was, thanks.
And the worst part is that we will most likely never get that uniqueness of his ever again........
Oh well, at least we still have Crash Bandicoot.
You mean the same one that got rebooted and Also artstyle changed that technically doesn't look like hes original inspiration of Looney Tune character?
dude...he still have his uniqueness in his own way and he stil does to this day idk why people can't see that it just doesn't make sense
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!! I am SO glad I'm not the only one who has issues with how Sonic is written under Flynn's pen
I always thought it was weird how nice sonic was to sage in frontiers. It felt off how he never really antagonized her for her attitude, only trying to make peace, which doesn't feel like a sonic thing. Sonic of the past wouldn't waste time trying to negotiate after the giganto incident, but he kept trying and it doesn't make any sense. I imagine adventure era sonic as chaotic good while the modern iteration is pushing him neutral good, sanding down his edge for whatever flynn has in mind moving forward
It’s weird too because in the trailers for Frontiers, Sonic does try to attack Sage. All they needed was one scene like that where he tries to attack her and it doesn’t work.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan i think because the sonic we see now is in his 20s he different from what he before
Where were YOU for when Sega was creating Frontiers!!! I appreciate your points made and those points are the VERY reason why I'm a Sonic fan!!!
Great video for explaining everything about Sonic so everyone can understand about him 👍💙💙
This is absolutely my take on his character as well, I'm glad to hear another youtuber share this sentiment. I've been watching a lot of Pariah695 and his Sonic game/story reviews, and he has a very similar opinion on Sonic's character which is seen in his reviews of the classic games.
This video does a fantastic job showcasing the writing style change by Ian Flynn starting with the IDW comics and then into Frontiers, I really didn't know the change was that gradual. Honestly fascinating and I really wonder if Frontier's reception will cause Ian or Sega to change their approach to character writing or how narratives are approached in future titles.
Yeah, I really don't get the aversion towards static characters when they've been around since… pretty much the beginning, really. In both Western AND Eastern culture.
Your usual reason for watching Robin Hood or Zorro isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they punish the wicked and help the unfortunate this time?"
Your usual reason for watching Sherlock Holmes or Batman isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they solve this mystery and catch the culprit?"
Your usual reason for watching Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny isn't because you want to see them grow and change. You watch them because you ask, "How will they use their tricks and tactics to outwit their opponents and get out of this adventure unscathed?"
"How will Dick Tracy get out of this one?"
"How will Asterix and Obelix foil the Romans' latest scheme?"
"How will James Bond undermine this Machiavellian mastermind?"
"How will Wile E. Coyote fail to catch the Road Runner?"
Tintin, Popeye, Superman, Captain America, Indiana Jones, Mario, Son Goku, Forrest Gump, Monkey D. Luffy… all of these are beloved, long-lasting characters because they don't NEED to grow or change. And if they don't need to grow or change, then there's no expiration date for their character. There's no point where you have to look at where they are and ask, "Now what?"
Sure, like real people, they can learn from their mistakes and gain new attitudes on things (e.g. Goku rejecting his Saiyan heritage at first before learning to accept and even embrace it), but again, that's not the MAIN reason you watch them.
All these characters are long-lasting and recognizable, and they've never needed to grow or change to be interesting, so why does Sonic?
All the characters you listed aren’t really interesting tbh
subscribed halfway through the video, i'm so glad there's someone out there who has the exact same thoughts as i do.
i feel like the mischaracterization of sonic and other characters in the series is a bigger issue than people realize (because everyone wants to dumb down criticism of the series to just "sonic fans complaining"). the writers stopped thinking about how to portray characters accurately in a story and more how they can write what _they_ want into a sonic story. it gets genuinely annoying when i'm reading the idw comics and have to sit through multiple long speeches from sonic about how he's a good person and wants to give everyone second chances or some shit. and also the whole implementing song lyrics into dialogue that _would_ be cool if it was implemented correctly, but it's just not because of how forced it sounds.
also i'm glad that you pointed out how sonic prime is supposed to be canon, because prime sonic and game sonic are absolutely _not_ the same character. according to ian flynn it takes place "sometime after advance 3" which means there's no viable reason why sonic acts the way he does during the show. to my understanding the writer of the show said that he hasn't played any of the games past the genesis era, and yeah, that really shows. it's less egregious because that means the writer doesn't know _how_ characters are meant to act in certain situations, but i'm wondering why sega never gave them any direction; they worked closely with TMS on sonic x which is why the characterization is so accurate, so i don't know why they wouldn't do the same for prime. probably because they don't care anymore lol. but it just makes me sad because i was really excited for a new plot-driven sonic show.
back to the games, a lot of people thought frontiers was a step in the right direction from the awful writing of the 2010s, but honestly i don't really have much faith with how boring and exposition-y the story was. literally every character in the game just repeats the character arcs they had 20 years ago. i get that it's to fix the damage that forces caused, but it was still Not good in my opinion. they should have just shown that characters are being fixed by writing them good instead of doing the whole "hey remember when this happened! i'm gonna do it again to show that i changed!" it bothers me so bad LOL.
mucho texto... sorry if i sound too negative, i still eat up most sonic content just cuz i'm someone who likes to know _everything_ about my favourite series, it just gets hard when most of that content is Not good lol. glad more people are speaking out about their gripes with the series. great video :]
The statement about Sonic Prime kinda proves that Ian Flynn is not as credible as people made him out to be.
I'm concerned about the future of writing in the games if he's going to be involved long-term in the games
I agree with you, Sega/Sonic Team needs to spice things up for Sonic's rebellious character.
Sonic is Link's Sega Counterpart and Biggest Fan.
“What should Sonic be?”
Depends on which version of Sonic you’re going for.
Clearly 2000s Sonic
@@miadatenshi990390s sonic and 2000s sonic are the same
@@shardsoftime0952 that was not my point
Preboot Archie (personality wise)
Besides it's fanbase division.
All of my yes. Sonic is such a simple character. He’s fast, he loves adventure, and he just does what he feels right. He’s not self-righteous or even a hero. He is just Sonic. Nuff said
this is the greatest video i've seen that breaks down the exact problem with sonic currently. beautifully well said. thank you so much for making this.
Honestly, Sonic nowadays has the same problem as Boba Fett does in Star Wars nowadays. THEY BOTH TALK TOO MUCH, WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NEED TO.
(sorry for the all caps)
Dave filoni=Ian Flynn
It's the Filoni effect
@@Aidel1011 i still feel like flynn is slightly better, but both suck
From the title I kinda expected a video like this, and I have two words for you...
THANK YOU
Yes, this is the third time I've commented below here, but I just wanted to share something I've figured out recently.
I feel like the best descriptor of who Sonic is came from the Japanese manual for the first game. On the intro page, we get this first-person message from Sonic: "Sorry for being prickly. People who are all talk are no good. I don't do what I do for justice. I do what I do because I want to do it. But I'd never betray you."
The Japanese side of things has been consistent with this simple summary, and I even feel like there are a couple western Sonics out there that follow it. Fleetway!Sonic is abrasive, but he gets the job done, ultimately cares about his friends and has even redeemed a few adversaries WITHOUT having to spout meaningless platitudes. AoStH!Sonic is a Looney Tunes character, but he's fun-loving, helps out folks and is an overall reliable guy. Movie!Sonic has less experience and tries to play superhero at one point, but his very arc in the second movie is him (and Knuckles) learning that he's at his strongest when he just fights to protect his loved ones rather than for justice or an ideal. It's why he willingly gives up the power of the Chaos Emeralds at the end.
IDW!Sonic, though? Couldn't be further from that original scripture. It can be argued that this problem stemmed from how SatAM and Archie portrayed Sonic as fighting for freedom as an ideal rather than freedom for the sake of freedom, but IDW is where the issues became too prevalent to ignore.
* "People who are all talk are the worst." - IDW!Sonic goes on long, wordy platitudes about how cool and heroic he is, which come off as boring at best and condescending at worst. (Word of advice to aspiring comic artists like myself: dialogue-driven stories can result in empty calories compared to cause-and-effect-driven stories, so ensure that the art can still convey the story well enough without dialogue.)
* "I don't do what I do for justice. I do what I do because I want to do it." - IDW!Sonic's all about how, "I'm not sacrificing my principles out of fear," even if it results in his friends (or even the entire planet) taking the brunt of it.
* "But I'd never betray you." - For all his spiel about "compassion", IDW!Sonic is a giant hypocrite. He gaslights Shadow through his past of misguided villainy by threatening to "take [him] out with Eggman" if he doesn't give Mr. Tinker a second chance. He claps back at Espio for stating they should have handled the Mr. Tinker situation differently despite how Espio was just traumatized through watching Vector become a Zombot. When Belle tries to fix Metal Sonic and Tails brings up the previous time they let him go free, Sonic shoves responsibility onto Tails for being the one to "de-weaponize" him. He's completely dismissive towards Surge and her mental trauma, and he ends the fight by blaming her for how she turned out.
Sonic the Hedgehog would never even THINK to say, "The problem with giving people a choice is that you can't stop them from making the wrong ones." That's something I'd expect to see EGGMAN say as a means of glorifying his ambitions of world conquest.
How the hell do you get to THAT point by accident!?
I agree with your point about fleetway Sonic but some small corrections:
1. Archie Sonic was a lot more true to original Sonic than IDW Sonic, i know cuz i read all of Archie by myself!
2. IDW Sonic's characterization actually started all the way back in Sonic Forces, so i think it most likely has something to do with Sega mandates, and while i don't think IDW Sonic is as bad as you think, he really does talk a lot.
Oh and just a small observation, that original description of Sonic is amazing, thank you for sharing!
@@freezeblazestar1079 The only people who think the worst version of Sonic is fleetway Sonic is the worst Sonic are people who haven't read the fleetway Sonic comic.
Sonic The Comic( or STC, which is the name of the fleetway comics) is a british comic, and in british culture it's common to be playfully mean with friends and other people, americans just take the comic panels out of context to make Sonic seem like a bad friend, but fleeetway Sonic DOES care about his friends, he just has a really hard time showing it.
Perfectly timed with Prime's finale I see, well played! 👌
I feel like the best example of showing Sonic’s personality for me is the intro to unleashed it’s sets up who he is and I love it
"Talk about low-budget flights, no food or movies... I'm outta here! I like running better!", "Say something, you fake hedgehog!", "I'm counting on you Tails! And Amy, take care of yourself!", "What you see is what you get, just a guy that loves adventure. I'm Sonic the Hedgehog!"
Lines like these are what introduced me to Sonic, someone who always had this sense of confidence yet never wrote off world-ending danger because "It's like it's my job or something!" (No hate to the Awareness Era, but it's hard to take their attempt at SatAM-level seriousness seriously when Sonic certainly isn't).
Frontiers Sonic isn't quite at that back to the Sonic I saw on my GameCube, but I do think it's a step back in the direction of making Sonic a high to decent character rather than simply decent like in the Awareness Era.
it's nice to see others, see what i see too. the sonic we love has been forgotten by the ones writing him, and that we need our spirit of the wind back.
I think it's more like the ones writing him are no longer the same as it used to be
Amazing video! And once again i really agree with where you are coming from.
I grew up with the 2010 era, as Sonic Colours was my very 1st Sonic game. But even as a kid, after wanting to go and try out other games in the series, i realised that Sonic was really different in his past adventures. He was a cookie cutter, watered down Saturday morning cartoon character, and while it caught my attention as a kid, looking back my love for this blue guinea pig wouldnt have lasted nearly as long if i didnt go back and check out his previous games.
It was the Classics, the Adventure games, the Advance trilogy and Black Knight that kept me around, and it was all because Sonic wasnt like anything else id had played or seen before. He was kind of like a role model, in a sense that the way he acted (for the most part) showed right from wrong in a way that wasnt forced down your throat. He didnt need to explain his reasons for doing what he does best, he just went along for the ride and helped people along the way. You didnt need fan service or easter eggs, Sonic's actions were enough.
Sonic always had a proper sense of direction, as like you said, the stories used to evolve around the characters. Its something that was honestly missing in the 2010 era, as it seemed like any other mascot could be swapped in at any point, and people would be none the wiser.
And while i do think Frontiers is a great return, i think going from Forces to Frontiers masks some of the problems with the current writing imo. Its going in a much better direction for sure, but the characters need to change along with the writing style imo. Sonic feels like a different character in Frontiers compared to Adventure - Black Knight. He talks too much, and doesnt allow for his actions to speak for him. Your animation between Sonic and Sage felt so right, it made me realise what we had been missing. I miss Sonic feeling down to earth, its a trait that no other mascot has (that i can think of) and it used to be balanced so well, and now its almost non existent.
I think with time, the writing will be ironed out and its possible that we could end up somewhat close to the old style of writing we love so much. But it really depends on how the characters are handled imo.
Anyway sorry for 'ranting' just wanted to give my opinion on this subject, as if i do it anywhere else (*cough* Twitter) id be skewered. Much appreciate you putting your opinions on the characters out there in a way that respects everyone. Not a lot of people do that!
Oh and Gex for president 2024.....
Fun fact I used to like Mario back in the Nintendo classic NES era until one day in Walmart they put the sega genesis with the game of sonic and knuckles and my life change i became a fan of the Sonic franchise
Murder of sonic is amazing!!!! Amy is my favorite character and she’s been all over the place for decades. There she’s a fun spunky go-getter and not annoying or boring.
Yeah, I was just informed that in a recent BumbleKast episode they talked about the Sonic and mercy stuff (again), they speak about it like it's a linear choice between "Sonic lets his enemies go" and "Sonic kills his enemies" rather than even bringing up the "Sonic doesn't need to kill his enemies but he should punish them" option that you pointed out, guess what happened in issue 61 was just a blip after all
It's very weird, I don't know why they keep doing it, they can and should ultimately choose which questions they should ask rather than treat everything as put-upon them, why do they have such a weird way of responding to criticism, oh my god
Some of Sonic Frontiers writing was not the best yet it was not bad either. Regardless, the game is the right direction for the future of Sonic versus the awful writing of Sonic Colors, Lost World, and Forces that turned Sonic into a parody of himself. Seriously, who thought hiring the Happy Tree Friends writers was a good idea? That is like asking the people behind Family Guy to write the story and dialogue of a mainline Final Fantasy game.
Dang dude, you are 100% right. Also I love this style of video, good work my guy 👍
I don't usually comment on videos on these, or at all, but I guess I wanted to put out my thoughts on this because its been in the back of my mind... and it might be long.
I am someone who grew up with Sonic from 2010, roughly speaking. I haven't played all the games fully, aside from cutscenes, but the most I been exposed to Sonic was the cartoons and games like SA 1 &2, 06, Gens and onwards from there. Classics as well but we're discussing modern Sonic here and to me I think what I realized is that I don't care for the Sonic you're describing in the video and honestly can't say truely why that is. I had enjoy certain moments like Black Knight and some parts from X, but lately I have enjoyed the recent depictions more than I have in the past, specially Sonic Boom, Frontiers, and the Movies., but let's exclude the spinoffs and focus on Frontiers. I enjoyed how Sonic was in that game, I like the moments that you dislike and found the story enjoyable, even with the knowledge that some parts were cut out for time. The rewrite you provided doesn't really work for me, but I'm willing to let be more how the story would be written with that in mind. As for IDW, I can't comment as I haven't caught up to those moments, but I think Sonic Channel stories are nice, if not really changing my mind on Sonic. But to the point or whatever point I had, I think Sonic was a character that I found not as interesting in the past. Maybe I just don't care for that type of character really, maybe I like the new Sonic, MAYBE I like Sonic to be whatever at this maybe, I honestly can't say why I don'y have a issue with Sonic currently, other than Prime being not consider canon in the first place and was just consider "canon" for marketing reasons. I understand the points in the video and I see why people can frustrated, but I guess like Sonic, I'm free like the wind in that sense...or lighting depending on who you ask.
-Signed,
A rambling person who probably didn't have a point to make.
really really great work on this video!!! i hope more people find and watch this. also i cackled when i heard the Unleashed Rank E music playing in the background at 5:01 lol
I've never played one of his game but I just started to like the way he is.. No offence but I think he is a great guy and most people almost try to see the world like he does but let's be honest. He has some flaws of his personality but every person has it and he cant really be changed by that. 💙Blue blur is a unique character 💖
I've have play alot of his but i do agreed with there
I hope the The energy amy and sonic had in the murder of sonic the hedgehog Carrie’s over in future games.
i personally do think ian flynn does a good job on writing sonic, but what’s highlighted in this video shows he has a lot of room for improvement😊
This comment! Almost every person talking about Ian Flynn's work is either praising it to death or hating him to death, people are just toxic for no reason just because of a cartoon hedgehog not acting the way they like, this is the only comment in this entire video that i agree with! Ian Flynn is a good writer working on this series for almost two decades, but he's not perfect. There are flaws he can improve upon in the future.
FINALLY A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!
Sonic’s whole thing is basically all about freedom and he _is_ inherently compassionate and outwardly positive. But what Ian got wrong with Sonic is that he made freedom basically a core value of Sonic, having Sonic hype it up like it’s a page in his new book he’s selling on Amazon for $16.99 and having it be the driving force for some…really _dumb_ decisions of his…
Sonic’s whole thing is freedom because he’s literally free from everything _including_ personal values. Everyone else can do and be what they like, that’s not Sonic’s problem and he won’t do squat to bring them out of situation he believes they can take themselves out of. What Sonic does for others involves him asking a short, specific question or having a concise message about what he thinks about the situation when he knows they’re listening.
He’s quick to go off on his own and leave anyone he’s talking to to work it out on their own and decide what they want to do. They only look back on him because they know it was him challenging their worldview that made them a better person and *not* him forcing them into a situation they didn’t choose for themselves.
Exactly.
I think more of the issue is that Sega still has a grip on the writing. I feel like IDW is trying to do the best with those limitations and the same goes for Ian Flynn. Yeah Archie was great but after the reboot Sonic and Co acted a bit different. And that's continued with IDW and frontiers. I'll be honest I've enjoyed sonic here more than other games, I like that he tries to help people and not just make a quip and grin. Is he perfect? No but that's the point, this version that Sega wants him to be is gonna be flawed and the writers are doing their best with it.
That’s a fair take, but I do slightly disagree. If I’m not mistaken, Ian Flynn’s gone on record saying that the mandates for writing Sonic specifically have been pretty lenient. And while I obviously have no intention of demonising him, it does feel like these strange writing choices are more on him and his team rather than Sega.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan That's understandable, I personally think it's a more interesting direction to take the character but I can understand why you and others don't like it.
i'm with you on that @@krisstasko
I don’t like Flynn’s writing period.
@@PixelrushTheFunnyPixelMan they’re more relaxed than they used to be but they’re still there. He got a question about the mandates on a bumble Kast episode before the New Year. SEGA’s grip isn’t AS restrictive as when he was writing for Frontiers and IDW but they’re still there.
I like to think of the change in writing being related to characters maturing within the universe and learning from their past experiences to try and do things better, such as when Sonic stops cyberspace Knuckles from trying to attack Sage in order to try and reason with her instead of blundering head first into the situation. For once he was trying to use his head and think first, just like Tails and amy might approach the situation.
I sometimes see this approach in other characters like Doctor Who where they try to learn from their past mistakes while still being consitstent to their character.
Maybe I'm talking jibberish but I can definitely understand and respect your points about the contrast between the writing before ans after the meta era of the Sonic franchise.
People will call me aJapanese purist, but there's a reason why I say the Japanese side of sonic have always understood his character the most. Generally in the east, it's character first, then story after. The story revolves around the characters. That's why sonic characterisation, and even the storytelling was more impactful and better in the past games.(late 90s/early 2000s). This is why I want Shiro Maekawa back.(Or if they get a western writer, just get em to follow this principle more)
Take for example, sonic and the black knight, and sonic frontiers(mainly written by flynn). Frontiers has so much lore dumps, explanations etc, and its well written, but the characters themselves act as mouth pieces to kinda exposit the story. Even when they get their own moments, it's kinda flat(at least in the English script. Jaapnese script did it better IMO).
But black knight? MOST of it is PURE CHARACTER ACTION. Not only between Sonic but also Merlina as well. Sure we don't get a shit ton of info about its world or merlina's past, but the character dynamic is what makes it SIMPLE yet ENGANGING. Just my perspective on it.
I agree with you all your points just make sense
And with just one scene, you've written a better Frontiers story than the entire game we got combined.
Even including DLC.
*ESPECIALLY* including DLC.
as cheesey as it is I think "It doesn't matter" encapsulates what kind of character sonic is very well.
Can’t wait for more hilarious comedy and animations from this channel!
I think the line about Sonic being too trusting from Knuckles is a bit odd to point out as a retcon to his character. Knuckles is only saying that because he's taking the attack on them as proof of Sage being a "bad guy". It is very in character for Knuckles to act on what he sees. He's simple like that. "You're too trusting" is nothing more than him claiming that Sonic is ignoring the actions that speak for what Sage is. It's not that the writers are making the claim that Sonic is overly trusting as a character trait. Otherwise they would have put that in the new character descriptions on the site. It's just that Knuckles, who has been fooled many times, is making the claim that Sonic is too trusting, because Knuckles was often fooled himself. Instead of Knuckles being told, he is witnessing someone's actions. With that, Knuckles believes that's enough to act on. Sonic is just open to understanding, while Knuckles thinks that's all to understand. I don't think Sonic trusted the voice of The End, but it was ground to investigate on. He says "some direction is better than none". Which I admit it's odd to just go along with the voice so soon, however he asks and is clearly annoyed without the context he asked for. Sonic is just doing what he can until he gathers further information. It's a strategy in itself to go with a plan, if you dont have direction yourself, to inspire a new one. I always seen it as that. However, as you imply, they should have shown Sonic trying to work things out himself until being put into a corner, and deciding to go with The End's plan. I think you make some decent points. I think the Sonic Colors Ultimate animation, Frontiers, and Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog have been doing decent work to his character. Still needs work, but it's on the right track in my opinion. I think they need to work the writing of the story, rather than limiting Sonic to fall into the overarching plot of the story. They could have done Frontiers a bit better. Think about it, if Sonic was able to get Sage to talk, then Sonic would have gained further information to ditch The End's plan. Of course they would still need to break down the "walls" of cyberspace, but that's not the point. Sonic, being mature, made the right call with trying to work with Sage, to investigate. Just didn't work out that way, so he's stuck with what works, The End's plan. If Sonic is making a mistake in other ways, then he'll just have to fix it. It's that simple.
Hey Pixelrush. Personally as much as I love game Sonic (Mainly Sonic from Unleashed), my personal favorite is Movie Sonic. I actually really like how Sonic in the movies struggles with loneliness and throughout the 2 movies, he gets the family that he always wanted. I think it really makes this version of the character unique. It’s what inspired me to make a comic book about his struggles. And I’m really excited to see where his journey goes from here after Sonic Movie 3.
Though I agree with how horrendous he is in the comics and Prime, I do not agree with you on Frontiers. You don't have to agree with me, but let me clarify a few things ( it's not long, don't worry )
1. Ian Flynn did not write this story. Morio Kishimoto and Jyunpei Ootsu did. Flynn provided dialogue; the dialogue is not the story. Morio was also the director, so this is HIS game. Not Ian Flynn's.
2. Sonic didn't take orders from The End; it told him how to save his friends. Sonic asked for more clarity but didn't receive an answer. He decided to discover the island and find Amy, then ran into Giganto and figured he had to defeat it to help his friends. Sure, this was all a trick to trap Sonic between dimensions, and The End could be free, but it DID work. What else was he supposed to do?
3. He's not too trusting of Sage, nor is he defending her. She shows up and tells him to leave. He asks what the hell is going on, but she refuses to answer, telling him that "it won't matter; you've already lost." He's not soft and too trusting; she isn't always attacking him. You can talk to Sage in the open zones, and their interactions aren't hostile. He tells Knuckles that she is 'protecting' something or someone because she tells him to LEAVE. She attacks him because his actions are putting Eggman in danger, but he doesn't know that ( because The End is tricking him ). She doesn't say that because, at first, he's an enemy. But she doesn't tell later because she feels sorry for him. He has what she wants: a family born of love. It would be kinder if he and his friend didn't know what was going to happen. Also, he said that if the voice commanding him wanted to start trouble, he'll stop it.
To me, Sonics' character in Frontiers was perfection.
The story isn't perfect, but it's not what I'm criticising. It's the characters, therefore the dialogue. The Japanese script handles the characters fine, the English script doesn't, which happened to be written by Ian Flynn.
The End never mentions Sonic's friends, nor does it ever try to appeal to Sonic's interests or character. Sonic blindly follows it's orders for no reason. The JP script fixed this by having Sonic ignore the End entirely and finding his own way to save his friends, unknowingly ending up freeing the End regardless.
Sonic IS too trusting of Sage because she gives him no reason to do so. She almost kills him the first time they meet, then she keeps information from him and continues to attack him.
Tbh I don't think it's entirely Flynn's fault, similar to Shadow in IDW, I think Sega has a really short leash on him, and he's doing the best he can to do something at least similar to what Sonic is like
For an exemple, in IDW, most of Sonic's speeches are in another people's POV, Amy admiring her hero and Surge despising her rival. Do those could pretty much be exagerations of their POVs
I get that, but like...there's gotta be a better way to work around it. The Japanese side of the series doesn't have this same problem.
I like to argue that it's more of Ian's fault than what most people see or think. In his bumblekast, he does states that he doesn't have a lot of freedom due to the Sega Mandates and he contradict himself in way that he sound like he has more wiggle room and I think if they were giving him a short leash on him... That would be the best to make sure he doesn't write Sonic into a completely different character, because with what Pixelrush crtizism of Sonic in the IDW, Flynn stated that he has more freedom of writing them however he wants, but not so much for Shadow.
The Shadow thing... I believe that It was Ian's fault... Not Sega. He stated that he was given a lot of notes on how to write Shadow, but not so much on the other cast... But then someone else wrote Shadow for the TSR comics and got no notes being what Shadow was supposed to be, but Evan Stanley, but mostly Ian Flynn got the most notes than anyone on the writing team on how to write Shadow. Sega mandates are not a restriction, which IDW publishing a little before IDW Sonic came out stated that it's like a set of guidelines, but their not being restricted to make stories and writing the characters. This is a objective fact, since IDW broke their mandates since the early issues or the Metal Virus Arc even Prime broke it's mandates, too. If the mandates were a restriction... Almost any piece of Media that is Sonic related besides the movies are applied.
Sega are the ones that supervises it, but whoever publishes it is all on IDW, their just telling them to follow this and no do that... So they can keep it on brand and not make it into something it's not... That's what mandates are suppose to do in any media. When reading the mandates, they do seem really dumb, but the more you think about it and understand what Sonic is... They do make some sense. For example, one of the mandates says "Sonic can't cry," which fits in line with what Pixelrush said about Sonic doesn't show a lot of his emotions a lot, but IDW does the opposite with a scene of Sonic crying.
If you're referring to the writers POV, they could be a exaggeration of what's be going on behind the scenes. If you're referring to the comics, that could be the case, but I doubt it. I don't see it being a exagerations of their POV's of Sonic's speeches, but more so a exaggeration and misunderstanding of Sonic's character when reading the comics.
I had no idea. 😶
I never even thought much of Sonic's personality when watching the games' cutscenes as I watched them for the story.
After watching this, it's a nice sum-up of Sonic's original characterization and later characterization.
You got a good point, I think that for now the writer is trying to get to know the character.
In my opinion Frontiers is a good start they're trying to redeem the characters
Let's just hope that in the future Sonic talks less and let his actions speak for himself
I gotta say the example of how Frontiers should've gone is PEAK!!
Kind of reminds me of Black Knight when Sonic gave Melina his advice and point of view of life.
One of the points that you didn't touch deeper, was the Sonic writing in Sonic Prime. I just finished the third season, and really hate what they've done to him. He just goes there forgiving any character that goes on the way. Is like a pacifist mindset, that frankly hate. After all of the destruction that Nine caused, he still forgives him, and it's like wtf? All characters were fine, forgetting all of the pain and trouble that previously Nine caused.
I felt like I was watching Steven Universe again.
Yeah I definitely could’ve gone into Prime but I recorded this before the third season came out and even then, it’s such a nothing show.
My problem with sonic in prime is how they try to give him a character arc. Like I don’t think Sonic should be prefect or whatever but he isn’t supposed to have arcs. He’s a flat character, someone who changes the world around them like how he helps tails find his confidence, helps chaos overcome his rage, helps blaze learn to conquer her demons and stop being a pariah, and so on
Man Of Action hasn’t made a good show since Generator Rex.
@@surenderreddy8144 yhh i agree with u guys, lets just make sonic a McGuffin and fuk any development, like with Shadow who finally became an interesting character for once again, if sonic didn't make a "Mistake" he would've have stayed bland & stagnant Or how about sonic friends why does he even need a team if he can do everything, its not like his gut instinct can be incorrect & he's mature & has no philosophy even though he knows eeg-man is a threat & hurts others but lets him live maybe sonic should kill egg-man. the End. everybody remains flat and Sonic 06-Loop Continues.
@@God-T thing is, sonic works best as a metaphorical character. He can sometimes lose and have flaws sure, but at his core he’s positivity incarnate. He doesn’t mature because he’s a constant of the world, someone whose ”arcs” are him embodying the arcs of other characters like how he embodies Shara’s defiance against the eraser djinn and how he helps her move past her broken relationship with him.
For all its faults, even prime gets this part right with how sonic helps thorn rose overcome her obsession with protecting the overgrown forest
I think frontiers is supposed to be wiping a clean slate and preparing the characters, I think which it all did pretty well. but unfortunately doesn't give a lot of room for showing their personality as much but I think that's a bit of Sega meddling too. I want to also say we so rarely get the sonic you describe as your sonic, he's ALWAYS been wildly inconsistent game to game, and when we've only gotten like 2 actual sonic game stories since unleashed, one of which being forces (lol) it's a bit unfair.
Idw has some oddities, but I don't think that sonic is THAT different than the black knight one. it's different, but it's way too overblown and he's not even character assassination imo. Too many reasons people list as why it's bad are directly contradicted by the actual games in the series, and I can just as easily argue "they don't understand sonic" just as much.
The murder of sonic game is proof of them having a bit more room to actually write what they want, frontiers had a very messy background like the memory loss plot line the corruption sorta fizzling out, etc. I wouldn't be worried about the future if they actually fully devolped their stories which seems to be in line with the Sega revival they're doing in doing things right again
this was a well made video tho!! I agree with sonic needs to be more focused in on his traits again but I don't think he's that different either.
Your made great points on Sonic. Growing up, I don't think I did like Sonic (probably because I grew up girly and thought he was meant for boys...which back then he would of been), but you know, seeing how weird I am, looking back on childhood things and comparing myself to this franchise, I suddenly grew to love the series. And it's probably thanks to Sonic X. I will say, I do agree and disagree with many of your points, Sonic having no care yet knowing he has to save the day. Yet the side of choosing good for everyone, letting them have the choice and realizing what has been repeated evil; I will say this. His personality now is reminding me of what Jesus would do, how he came to this world not to save it in a way many thought he would (if you read this and this applies to everyone, I speak of how a series "The Chosen" is showing of how Jesus interacted with the many that are different. I greatly suggest you and all to see it. And if for new things, you will see a new season 4 of the show coming to theaters February 1)
And your portrayal of Sage was perfect, I did not like how she is portrayed as someone who would just shift to good as she showed in game. And 8:24-26, I love that quote.
YOU GOT MY THOUGHTS DOWN EXACTLY!! Great video
I can see where you're coming from on this, and while I actually do love moments of Sonic being snarky/being a brat in some cases, I don't mind him being more positive and understanding. The way I interpreted Frontiers' writing is that it felt like the characters maturing in a way, sort of trying to push them in a way to grow more as people. I do want to add this too, while Ian may be more involved with the writing now of the games, he's still writing for a licensed property. I mean if you've wondered why in IDW Shadow acted like a bargain bins Vegeta (namely during the Metal Virus arc), that's directly due to SEGA's interference. I'm not gonna act like the man's someone who can never write something bad or has flaws, it's just I feel like it's important to remember that Sonic wasn't created by Ian and he doesn't have complete control and still has to work within SEGA's guidelines that can be very restrictive.
Not saying the criticism was bad, I can definitely understand where you're coming from on that front, it's just that it's important to remember that I don't think the blame for the characterization is solely one person's fault.
Yep. I remember on Bumble Kast Ian talking about wanting to give Shadow more time and writing more in line with his 06 self but SEGA said nope and told him and staff to do what they did with him there and we see how that turned out. Like with most of the cast, the writing mostly falls with what SEGA wants.
@@HouseHawk62 Not really. Sega is a blame for a lot of things, which isn't wrong... But with how they wanted Shadow was completely different than what Ian did for Sonic IDW. It would be more so Ian's fault to be honest.
My favourite video games ever along with Toy Story
I completely rewritten his history to where he was from Japan originally but left for a better life in the uk 🇬🇧 so he learned English and find tails in his burn down town he raised tails and today is a wise patient brave hedgehog and a mayor of a town
We have to sue IGN for that strict negative reactions
Mario does have a lot of character 😔
10:11 uhhh...to be fair though ian flynn didn't wrote that part yeah he did said it in his podcast he wasn't behind this one keep that in mind there were other writers behind frotniers aswell so he didn't exactly had full control
I think that sonic frontiers's story is so diferent because ultimately our enemies are the guys sonic and his friends are trying to save which can bring these diferent interactions. Sonic said that he felt they weren't atacking him but protecting something and the only way of getting their trust is tagging along. Now if that's Sonic esque i don't know.I think Sonic can be more patient with who he's trying to save but i'm not the fanatic here so you tell me.
Personally, when breaking down what makes Sonic who and what he/it is, I like to use Sonic 1 as the ultimate point of reference. Everything we know about Sonic, all the characters, gameplay, aesthetic choices, they're all the trunk and branches that grew from the seed of Sonic 1, it is at the root of everything. Slight tangent to illustrate my point, but think about why loops exist in a game like Sonic Unleashed, or Colors, or Generations. REALLY think about it. If you were designing a game from the ground up with those same mechanics, in a world where the Sonic series, or Sonic 1 in particular, never existed, would you think to add loops? Are they a natural extension of the "boost, fill up boost meter with game objects, side step, drift, jump" mechanics, or do they exist in those games because the earliest game in their series built them in conjunction with its specific inertia physics gameplay? If you built Unleashed day gameplay from the ground up in a world without Sonic, you wouldn't have loops, or corkscrews. You wouldn't have the ring health system either, that comes from the needs of the pacing for that physics game, a way of having consequences that aren't too punishing and don't break the pace too much in a game where your movement is subject to physics like Sonic's. Levels would likely have more obstacles centered around skillful drifting, winding through twisting geometry to keep from slamming into walls. Like the Crash Bandicoot warthog levels at 1000 miles an hour. Changing the core of Sonic's gameplay changed the needs of all kinds of level and systems design, but kept certain things out of misplaced tradition because this is a Sonic game. They're not there as a natural extension of certain fundamental ideas, they're shallow references to what came before with no understanding of their purpose.
And they did this with the characters too, with Amy, Sonic, and Shadow suffering the worst of it. Sonic taps his foot because tapping his foot is something Sonic did in Sonic 1. Forget WHY he was doing it, the underlying emotion that had him tapping his foot, the underlying personality informing that emotion, Sonic taps his feet in Sonic 1 so Sonic taps his foot in Sonic Frontiers. And it's the same for all the things Sonic does, to varying degrees, though later games have also been pulling from later sources. Sonic gives speeches in IDW and Frontiers because people REALLY liked when he did that in SA1, SA2, Secret Rings, Black Knight, ETC. But on a fundamental level, Sonic 1 wasn't referencing anything. The reason Sonic taps his foot in Sonic 1 is because he's pissed at the player for making him wait around for them to pick up the controller and play the game. He's pissed at the player because he's impatient, doing things on his own terms and in his own way is how Sonic lives, and you're making him wait around for you, he straight up bails on you if you do it in Sonic CD. We also know that Sonic is rebellious, cheeky, and defiant to figures of authority, partially because his antagonist, who represents the antithesis of his personality and worldview is an industrialist authoritarian, but more directly because he's expressing his impatience towards YOU, the player, for making HIM wait. You're WASTING HIS TIME and he's giving some serious side eye about it. We can also glean some of this from the finger wag on the title screen, an expression of defiance at the first glance. We also know that Sonic is determined, his straightforward, focused expression while running, driven to finish the task no matter what stands in his way.
Sonic's entire, core personality comes from this game, and was the only version of Sonic in existence at the time of its release. Everything else is either a reference to it, in sequels and spinoffs, or a failure to reference it, and I MEAN EVERYTHING. If you're not building a Sonic story with this core idea of Sonic at the root of it all, you're not really writing a Sonic story, in the same way, if I wrote a story focused on Luigi from Mario and he wasn't a sniveling scaredy cat trying to be brave and save his friends and family, then I'm not really writing a Luigi story (I'd use Mario, but Luigi has an easier to explain personality).
Sonic comes from Sonic 1, in every regard. You don't need to re-use Green Hill or the simple plot synopsis or the "Classic" Naoto Ohshima Sonic Aesthetic, because those are all surface level, comparatively superficial elements in the Sonic series. It's by coming to a deeper, more fundamental understanding of the series that we can find ourselves on the same page and start having productive conversations about this.
tl;dr sonic 1 has entirely established his character and all the other sequels are built off of it, shockers
*have built, i can't edit
The worst part of the 2010 games as someone who likes about half of them is it made the entire fandom even more annoying about how Sonic should act because no matter how good or how bad a Sonic game show or movie is you're always going to find people fighting over how Sonic and the Gang should be acting
You enlighten me on why Sonic felt wrong in the recent games! You explained it perfectly!
being honest, people are always talking about sonic showing mercy to his enemies like thats a new thing. he's always been doing that. and sonic written very similar to how he was in the 2000s. he hasn't devolved into a generic protagonist, he still is a adventure loving teenager, who plays by his own rules in sonic frontiers. ive been seeing too many people complain about Ian flynn even though he saved to series narratively speaking.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Ian Flynn's writing isn't significantly better than meta era, they're arguing that it's still not fully in character. Whether or not anyone agrees is ofc, up for debate, but I do think sonic is different. Also sonic showing mercy to his enemies isn't a new thing, true, but we've also seen him straight up abuse erazor djinn without batting an eye and kill the hell out of him. Sonic only tends to talk it out with an enemy either once they've shown a hint of humanity beforehand (blaze) or they've been defeated (also blaze, but obviously many more examples, like metal in heroes)
Obviously all of those traits of sonic are still there, but I would argue that sonic was much less wordy and willing to go into a deep philosophical ideology with someone that already has their dukes up
@@igirjei3717 being honest... it really just depends on the circumstances. like, the end. sonic wasn't trying to reason with him. this is just a much more experienced sonic who has befriended so many enemies for him to see that there is another way.
@@IsaiahVance-nc1ow sure... but then he'll try to befriend an eggman robot who is physically incapable of defying his master. And where was this mercy for The End? Sure sonic doesn't go out of his way to kill but he's also never gone out of his way to ensure an enemy doesn't get harmed. He'll help or try to answer a question when he wants to, no doubt, sonic doesn't like to leave anyone hanging, but sonic will do what sonic does and it's not his problem if someone decided they want to get in the way of that
@@igirjei3717Yeah, I never understood why Sonic would try to defend Eggman, and get mad at others like shadow for not agreeing. Sonic said that they let shadow live, but Shadow eventually changed and was also altered by Gerald, so it was not all his fault.
Sonic knowing Eggman won't change and protecting him from death doesn't make any sense.
For the comics they just want to find a deep reason behind why Sonic doesn't kill Eggman in the games.
IDW and Frontiers Sonic = Peak Sonic
People choose to speak their opinions
You choose to speak FACTS
Things in this comment:
-no bullshit
-straight fax
-Common sonic enjoyer W
Shows your shit standards
Scrapnick IDW and JP frontiers sonic=peak sonic
There fixed it
@@shardsoftime0952 man shut you goofy ahh up