As an American musical theatre actress living & working in the UK myself, I found your honesty about the racial aspect refreshing and necessary. Its a VERY valid & glaringly obvious point that many prefer to shy away from. As you rightly said, the pool of UK black talent with a BIG household name in UK musical theatre is EXTREMELY small. There is NO doubt that Beverley Knight is 100% talented + gifted and rightfully deserves ALL her flowers. She has been in the charts for decades + has been able to successfully dominate & transition from a solo Soul / R&B career into TV Presenting + Musical theatre, hence why she is repeatedly cast in literally everything (The Bodyguard, Cats, Drifters Girl, Sister Act, Memphis, Sylvia, etc) because there is no one else really with a known name or that type of success as a UK black female that can pull in theatre audiences in that way. There definitely ARE other talented individuals (who I won't name out of respect) but in comparison - they honestly don't have the same level of power associated with their names that can drive ticket sales. This is something that really needs to be looked at in the UK and Im glad you share this sentiment x
I saw NYNY a few weeks ago. There were some things that I loved about it -- the sets and lighting were beautiful, loved the choreography, and the scene transitions (with dancing, and with ensemble members casually walking through the poses of famous NYC photos as a photographer character snapped their pictures) were just genius. But there was barely any plot, and pretty much zero character development. Like, we saw Jimmy say that he'd stop drinking about twenty times throughout the show, and there was nothing that made me believe that he actually meant it at the end. I went with my dad, who enjoys theatre but isn't really a "theatre person," and his comment was, "It was enjoyable, but it feels like it's missing something." (Also one weird scene that my father and I both noticed -- Jimmy is drinking something from a glass, his wife says something like, "You're drinking?" and he says, "Don't worry, it's just ginger ale." She sniffs the glass and says nothing more, which would usually mean that it actually was ginger ale and she didn't smell alcohol, but he was clearly acting drunk in that scene, and my dad and I were both confused about what we were supposed to think was in that glass.)
My son has lost his vision in the past 18 months and is just 17 .He was reluctant to go to theatre since vision loss( I have taken him to productions for many years) but he loved Dear England as did the adults he went with. The theatre ran a touch tour before the show with the chance to meet the cast, and this really helped the experience.
Good he was able to make use of those access offers, hopefully that can keep his connection with theatre. Did he use the audio description then or he still has some vision? How was it? I have always wondered how intrusive or not it is to the performance. I might try it some time providing there are spare headsets
I have zero interest in jukebox musicals. Never even seen one in person. If I'm deciding what to watch and realize I'm reading about a jukebox musical, I immediately move on to the next show. I think you're right, and that there are a lot of people out there who feel the same.
I HATE jukebox musicals. They have no artistic merit and are designed exclusively for commercial appeal. I have no interest in seeing Moulin Rouge/& Juliet or any of that ilk.
@@sterlingross919- Woah there! Saying something doesn't have artistic merit simply because you don't care for it personally is extremely presumptuous and makes you sound like a pompous egotist. I'm not sure how old you are but when Moulin Rouge first came out in 2001 movie musicals as a genre were still very much dead in the water in terms of their mainstream box office appeal. Baz Luhrmann knew this and took it as a challenge to create something new, fresh and exciting for the start of the new century. Shows like Moulin Rouge, Mamma Mia! and American Idiot are a few great examples that prove when done right, jukebox musicals can be both visionary and incredibly fun and exciting. The problem right now is that the market is oversaturated with them. Too much of anything runs of the risk of becoming stale and boring, I mean just look at the current state of the Marvel movie franchise. That doesn't mean there isn't any artistic value or merit in these projects, it just means they need to be better thought out before rushing to push them out to the public.
In the 60's ,70's, and 80's it was very common for shows to close after the first or second performance. There is WAY too much money involved now for that to happen.
in regards to NYNY touring, I got into a convo about this on the Broadway subreddit and someone brought up the interesting point that some shows have a better time financially on tour due to people buying full season passes for their local touring house(s)
I think it also depends on the age group. Beetlejuice didn't work out on Broadway as well but is having a sell out tour. The younger crowd can't afford tickets to travel to New York but are much more able to afford a local tour ticket.
@@scribbly2983 - “Beetlejuice” did better on Broadway than almost everything from the 22/23 season. Only “Sweeney Todd”, “Parade”, and “&Juliet” have been successful. Even the “Into the Woods” revival was not as financially successful as the producers would have you believe. “NY, NY” cost $28mil to mount on Broadway, and lost even more than that. There is no way a tour will save it. It is not going to miraculously turn into “Beetlejuice”, and become a cult classic to sell the licensing rights to Norwegian Cruise Lines.
I’m honestly not surprised New York New York is closing. My cousin who worked on the show said that they got a rumor they would be closing on July 30th about a month ago. I’m just shocked it took so long to announce it!
Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation of why shows close on both sides of the pond and for not shying away from racism as one of the reasons. Also, many congratulations and best wishes on your engagement!
I’ve been waiting to hear your thoughts on Ain’t too proud closing because I was shocked when i saw the announcement of its closure especially since its closing early than the first initial closing date, originally when it got announced, it was meant to close end of October, then it got extended to January and now its mid September. I’m planning to see the show next month but I’m glad you mentioned the race element in this. Unfortunately I’m disappointed but not surprised. The lack of big names who are black in the musical theatre is limited. When I saw that sister act next year was gonna start Alexandra burke and Beverly Knight, I thought to myself “of course they cast most recognised black singers who have done musical theatres” when that could have an opportunity to a less known musical theatre actress who is black to take on the role besides them. As a black person it’s just frustrating seeing incredible shows not sell well purely because it has predominantly black cast but like I said disappointed but not surprised
In London ticket prices are almost twice as expensive as they were a couple of years ago, but the overall theatre experience isn’t twice as good. I think to keep shows running they really need to stop being greedy and keep prices to a more reasonable level.
idk about Ain't Too Proud but NYNY was *no* surprise. It was no secret that it was a critical and financial flop. The time between announcement and closing was odd though.
It sounds like NYNY was a creative love fest. No one wanted to be critical of anyone else’s work, I mean Lin Manuel isn’t going to start picking apart John Kander’s music or Stroman’s direction. What we ended up with is a bloated show of compromise rather than a tight piece of theatre that has been picked apart and put back together again to really get it right. Too much money, too much power, not enough editing. I mean I don’t even think they bothered with an out of town tryout?
Re: launching a tour despite an unsuccessful Broadway run, I'm not too surprised (unless they were just out of money to front for it). The time/cost needed to visit NYC is not to be underestimated (think of how much larger the US is vs the UK) and so many people will see shows locally that they would have never traveled to see, or see shows they may be less interested in just because it's part of the subscription package at their local theatre. I'm more fortunate than most to live about 4 hours away from NYC, and I typically make weekend trips a couple times per year (see 3 shows Saturday-Sunday and just pay for one night at a hotel). I will actually avoid seeing a show on Broadway if they've already announced a tour unless I just can't wait or specifically want to see the Broadway cast! Pretty much every national tour hits one of the theatres by me so I'd rather see something on Broadway I otherwise wouldn't get a chance to see. I imagine others are similarly choosey once they've spent hundreds and taken flights and have to then decide what they are most likely to enjoy, factoring in reviews, awards, etc. NY, NY was never a priority on my quick trips but I'll be glad to at least satisfy my curiosity with the tour.
Mickey Jo, I've seen both shows. NYNY was a show with a huge problem-it had no storyline. The sets and costumes were spectacular; the choreography was great. But there was no there there. The story was nearly nonexistent. There were five extra storylines, but nothing to hold it together. Ultimately, it was tiresome and boring. Ain't Too Proud was just another Des McEnoff high-gloss typical technically right but actually boring time in the theatre. Yes it was proficient, but it had no heart. It was well done but yawn, yawn, yawn. In short, two misses, no hits.
Jukebox musicals definitely have a place but it does feel a bit overwhelming at the moment. I understand the broader appeal of jukebox and classic musicals but I get more excited by brand new shows that can take the audience on a new adventure, however big or small. Its unfortunate for the cast and crew when shows dont have long runs but hopefully the time and experience leads to other opportunities for them. Hopefully they were given a better heads up then a weeks notice they were closing.
I went to see this show with low expectations but I walked out really enjoying it so I’m sad it is closing. I will say I’m not someone who necessarily analyzes shows much (smooth brain) unless there are particularly egregious plot holes but I had a lot of fun seeing the costumes, choreography, sets, etc. I’m sad it didn’t get a longer run. I hope the creatives got some extra heads up behind the scenes before the announcement came out
Great video! Its sad when shows close, I think the west end should publish grosses. Hopefully going to see Ain't too proud soon. Ive heard the newsies transfer gossip too. Hopefully i can get too see it if it does!
It's always sad when people lose their jobs but it's the way the business works and NY NY was subpar at best. Some great visuals and performances, but a mediocre and all-over-the-place script.
@@KristinaNorman - Same…. “NY, NY” even released a clip of the tap dance number on the scaffolding, and it looked so boring and unimaginative. Honestly, “Some Like it Hot” also was incredibly unimpressive at the Tonys. Talented cast but such an outdated storyline. Which clearly explains why, despite all its wins, it still is losing money every week.
holy shit, been meaning to see new york new york and hadn't gotten around to it yet! so glad you posted this, I just grabbed a ticket for tomorrow night to slide in before it's gone forever.
Once Upon a One More Time is about to close too. It opened barely more than a month ago and it’s been at 50% capacity basically since it’s second week.
I’m so surprised. I know someone who has seen it 7 times. Please. You guys reading this. Fabulous show !!!! Music was great , the choreography impeccable , Justin guarini is terrific. Loved this show. You come out happy and isn’t this what a show is supposed to do
It had a good run in DC, I think that while the plot differs, the reality is it's attracting the same crowd as &Juliet (fenale focused retelling with a pop soundtrack) and that one is filling the space. I also wonder if the Bad Cinderella vibe also hurt the show because it's another Cinderella take. The reality is they dropped it in a competitive space and they may have done better if they'd taken it around more and waited until it had less direct competition.
@@scribbly2983 You're right about the competition. I didn't understand how much overlap there was between the 2 shows until I had seen both and I have to say &Juliet is just better. Once is still a lot of fun but it definitely suffers by comparison.
I'm glad I caught your review on New York new york. Because I've been seeing clips and just thinking it's a lunatic that this show was closing. Just look phenomenal from the clips
You are so right about Broadway! I recently went to see Sweeney Todd and I did so partly because I felt only a Broadway production of ST would fully do it justice. In that case, I felt OK about spending over $100 per ticket for the production. And while I don't love the B'Way pricing economy, it truly did feel special to watch such a magnificent and impressive production of an epic musical. I hadn't really considered the angle of going to see shows on Broadway because it is Broadway. However, I really feel that is what motivates my Broadway visits.
I'm in no way a dedicated football fan but 'Dear England' is a really fun, confident, electrifying production. I was lucky to see it last night for the second time. The ampitheatre space of the Olivier makes it feel like an Event before the show has even started so I wonder whether the Gillian Lynne Theatre would be more appropriate for it, maybe in the run up to the Euros next Summer. In all honesty I wish it would just return to the National Theatre next year; the NT could use it as a great opportunity to get a more wide-ranging audience through its doors.
I saw NYNY on the 1st of July and I thought it was absolutely wonderful but sadly it was a Saturday night in peak season and the theatre wasn’t full!! It was such a fun show and I didn’t agree with the reviews about it.
Re: NY NY-I imagine it will be a lean equity or noneq tour, aiming to recoup some of the vast amounts of capital on Broadway and help pay back investors, plus get the brand name out there for when it goes into licensing. Announcing tours around Tony’s is a) part of campaign strategy and b) partially because the road conference coincides with Tony season. Loving your content and hope to connect when I’m in London!!
You were in my city! How exciting! I watched the show one week before you and was awed by the defying gravity too. So great. Did you know that the actresses playing Elphie and Glinda are sisters?
I went to see Ain't Too Proud with my mum back in April and we both really enjoyed it. I was surprised to see it closing early, given the extension to January was announced fairly recently, was that maybe just overly optimistic of them that they thought things might pick up? I can see where in a very crowded market for jukebox shows though, it might get lost. It doesn't have the spectacle or big film name recognition of Moulin Rouge, it doesn't have the immediate song recognition of something like Tina or Jersey Boys and The Temptations don't have the same kind of popularity here as ABBA or Queen which send people flocking to Mamma Mia or We Will Rock You. Basically anyone who wants to see a jukebox show in London at the moment is covered by one of these options so it's kind of hard to see where Ain't Too Proud fits. Also advertising wise, I can't say I've seen anywhere near as many posters/billboards for Ain't Too Proud as for other shows: the new Moulin Rouge posters are everywhere, as is Operation Mincemeat, Mrs Doubtfire, Crazy For You, Groundhog Day....the list goes on. I've seen some Ain't Too Proud posters but nowhere near as many as for other new shows opening this year or even established shows so I wonder if lack of marketing also played a part?
You called it! Dear England is coming to the Prince Edward Theatre! It’s the first time in almost forever that the Prince Edward will have a drama play than a musical. I also observe that the National Theatre is having a good year before Rufus Norris steps down within two years. The Crucible, The Motive and the Cue, and now Dear England have or will be having West End runs, specifically at the Delfont Mackintosh Theatres (Gielgud for The Crucible, Noël Coward for Motive, and Prince Edward for Dear England). Hopefully The Witches does well financially for the holidays, and it could potentially be the next Matilda of the National.
I saw Aint too proud during the preview week. I loved it, the performances were brilliant especially Tosh who is such a huge talent. Im sad that its closing but i think possibly it would have done better in a smaller theatre.
The Temptations had their story covered in Motown the Musical. Both The Drifters and The Temptations don't have really interesting back stories too. The Four Seasons story had a story already woven into to rock n roll folklore, the mob money, the handshake etc. I think it's very lazy to say it's race related, Hamilton, Dreamgirls, 5 guys named Moe all did very well. A Strange Loop, doesn't appeal to me because it sound like it's based totally on American identity politics so will have all the subtlety of a sledge hammer
“A Strange Loop” was not popular on Broadway either. It had the shortest run of any Best Musical winner ever, and that includes Stephen Sondheim’s “Passion”.
Both "Ain't Too Proud" and "The Grifters Girl" got bad press about noisy audience behaviour and I wonder if that has something to do with it? "For Black boys who Consider Suicide" did well "A Strange Loop" is not.I wonder if it's more to do with subject matter rather than the demography of the audience
Also Camelot closed early, and while it isn't a musical, and was known from the start that it was a limited run, Grey House closed around a month early.
I was discussing exactly why a lot of shows are struggling with my mum (in early 70s) and she had some thoughts about this 1) Temptations and Drifters shows- possibly restricted audience appeal, more suited to an older crowd who grew up with the songs? Younger audience may not be inclined to take a punt thereby reducing the overall number attending (plus crossover of basically the same show again) 2) I loved the cast in Drifters Girl as the songs are so good and they really sold it but it couldn't hide how flimsy the book was and. I think they announced the closure as soon as Beverly left? Will prob do ok on Tour re the racial aspect - Im not sure I agree people don't want to see black shows - Dreamgirls was a big hit both in West End and on tour and Tina is still going strong - I just don't think it helped Aint too Proud that Drifters girl was so recent (and didn't do amazing box office - I managed to get top price tix for half price even with Beverly Knight still in it) 3) A Stranger Loop - there wasn't much buzz about this here or even Broadway - I know it won the Tony but only lasted 300 performances - Possibly a younger crowd only (possibly TOO Meta?) - difficult to attract an older audience plus wrong venue - maybe more suited to a smaller arthouse venue? 4) The Cost of tickets - the West End has priced itself out of the market. Prices are insane. Seems to be borne out as seeing lots of offers through discount sites for Brand new shows (e.g. Crazy for You from over £100 to £50 etc) people aren't willing to pay for shows with OK/ middling reviews/ 6) the overall cost of visiting London now for a weekend for out of towners (me!) - Prices have basically doubled since Covid restrictions lifted once you factor in hotel, travel, food etc. next month im only seeing one show (Next to Normal) instead usually doing 2 in a weekend (although have Hadestown and Long Days Journey into night to look forward to next year)
I absolutely loved Ain’t Too Proud. I usually dislike jukebox musicals unless it’s the story of the band/musician, and The Temptations have a more interesting story than the Four Seasons so I loved it way more than Jersey Boys for the drama. I just think it was bad timing and too big of a theatre. I agree about the title too. I don’t think that song title has the same resonance to scream “Temptations” with the same iconography as the other ones you mentioned.
Very interesting episode (had me wondering what WAS the last play at the Prince Edward - if there ever was one). It may be important to think about ticket prices at times like this. So many critics lose touch with the cost of going to West End shows (yes I know it's chicken feed compared to Broadway). "Supporting" a show (as I have done for A Strange Loop) is not a cheap risk to take. Maybe you'll say more about pricing at some point. I'm loving your reviews and learning a lot. (What a shocker The Bridge won't be up for Oliviers, and I had no idea there was a Spamalot parallel with Camelot). Thank you! PS Could The Osmonds show be up for Christmas at the P.E.?
I think the Broadway reception of stage adaptations of films just depends on the property. We've seen some huge hits on Broadway -- The Producers was about as big as it gets during its run. Mean Girls, Moulin Rouge, Beetlejuice, Spamalot, Hairspray were all hits. There've been big whiffs too -- Mrs. Doubtfire, Groundhog Day, Tootsie, etc. I will admit to being one of those snobs who is irritated by adaptations -- it often feels like a crass attempt to capitalize on a known IP. But I also have to admit some of those shows (both the successes and failures) were pretty good, and have some of my favorite songs. I just prefer more original, risky work. I suppose that's what Off Broadway is for. . . . .
Non-musical plays: I'd love to hear you speak (more) about them as well. Also, off-Broadway plays and musicals. The off-Broadway Roundabout Theatre Company's 2019 production of Selina Fillinger's stunning world premiere of "Something Clean" was as engrossing as it was unforgettable.
This is so interesting, I recently saw Ain't Too Proud and really enjoyed it but the audience was very empty. My Mum questioned why it wasn't selling when the likes of Jersey Boys is and the only thing I could think of was because it's a show with a predominantly black cast which never seem to sell as well. I can't think of a better way to explain that and am certainly not being racist in my comments but your explaination was exactly what I'd been trying to convey. Thank you for raising this.
The Ain't too proud notice came a few days after I saw it and honestly I'm not surprised. It felt like a less interesting mash up of other biopic jukebox musicals I've seen. It's a big shame because I think there's a really interesting story there with good music and fantastic actors
One major thought against dear England is if they want a west end transfer they might want to wait till next summer and the European championships hopefully capitalising on the tournament to get people to see it
I've seen both Ain't Too Proud and Aspects - at both the theatre's were less than 60% full, and were full of much older people. With some older people reluctant to get back to enclosed places like theatre, perhaps it's more difficult for these types of shows?
Sad about NY NY. Didn't get to see it so can't speak to the plot points or character development, but the cast album is sensational and the show looks damn good. Maybe this tour launch allow them to fix the issues and make the substance as good as the spectacle and music.
Considering “NY, NY” had the highest weekly operating costs, in Broadway history, it would have closed even if it won Best Musical. However, it turned out to be a mediocre to terrible musical, so it was doomed from the gate. The closing announcement was not abrupt as that article makes it seem. Johnny Oleksinsky dropped the news a few weeks ago, that the producers had to close by the end of July. He also revealed the real budget…. $28mil investment and $1.2mil weekly operating costs. Meaning, it lost more money than it cost. I have no idea why it cost that much. The set was elaborate but nothing to warrant that budget. There is no way the national tour will ever happen.
I don't see it that way. I think the national tour will happen, but it will be significantly lower budget (maybe the mid-hundred thousands at highest). As well, Susan Stroman, if she directs, will definitely adapt the set to take into account that the persistent wave of inflation we're in will still be just that for the next little while.
Went to see ain't too proud last Friday. My partner and I met each other at a Motown bar so we had a wonderful time, the talent and the musicians were phenomenal. We also saw Motown back in 2019 for the same reasons and Tina back in 2022. (I'm slowly breaking my musical reluctant boyfriend with music he likes before I blow his mind with original scores) Tina Turner is also my hero! My main criticism of it was that I've seen this story a million times, even in films. Films like bohemian rhapsody, rocketman, I wanna dance with somebody... Every story of artists will have drugs, heartbreak, potential domestic violence, death. I could just feel the beats of the story before they happened. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, I really did! I just knew what was coming and when I was reading the programme during the interval, I was playing guess how the song will be shoe horned into the story... Ooo War by Edwin Starr must be a criticism of the Vietnam war! (Just a little game I play with myself) I think why I preferred we will rock you and to some extent Mamma Mia is although it's jukebox, it's also a brand new story and yes I like to play how did they shoe horn this song in? (french and Saunders parodies this beautifully with their honey honey bit) but I just prefer when the story isn't a biopic because it adds originality despite pre existing songs.
Just announced: Following a well-received 10-day run at The Kennedy Center in Washington D.C., a revival of Spamalot will be opening at The St. James Theater (current home to Funny Girl) in November.
Very interesting episode. I'd make a few comments: Regarding the matter of black performers I'd suggest there's also the issue of audiences. The majority of audience members at shows I go to (including Drifters Girl) are white. Why don't other people go to the theatre and what can be done to encourage them? Secondly, Guys and Dolls is phenomenal and stars two amazing black performers (amongst other leads). Finally, I was interested in A Strange Loop but put off by all the swearing 🙂
Jersey Boys is in quite a small theatre. Was surprised to see Ain't Too Proud closing early, more so because of the recent extension (which makes you think things are going well), so this was a surprise and annoying it's a week earlier than the initial run (I had booked for the 20th).
The main problem with the St. James Theatre is its size. It is one of the largest theaters on Broadway, and extremely expensive to operate. Would a revival of “The Wiz” be able to generate that type of revenue to sustain even a limited run?
you forgot moulin rouge ahahahah. so sad to hear that a strange loop isn’t doing that well on west end… i’m based in asia and was hoping that i’ll have a chance to visit london in the second half of next year and strange loop would definitely be one of the first shows i’ll catch if i could but doesn’t seem like it’ll be lasting this long after all...
I saw Ain’t too Proud Touring. It’s good… the sets are a bit lack luster. I felt the casting was a bit off and didn’t embody the characters and mannerisms of the actual Temptations. I enjoyed it a lot! But I can see why it’s closing.
As a midwest American, there are theater aficionados here who keep up with the Broadway goings on, but for the most part we're pretty distant. There's a lot of people who would go to see the tour of New York New York just for the song. That will be enough to sell tickets. They like the song, so the show has to be enjoyable. My opinion, I'm not an expert.
I'm not surprised by NYNY's closing. I think the producers over-estimated the name draw. The movie wasn't terribly successful, and is most remembered for pairing Lisa Minelli and Robert DeNiro, under the direction of Martin Scorsese. I have no memory of the plot, which I understand was changed for the musical anyway. Perhaps if the producers had integrated more Kander and Ebb songs (well-known songs from other properties) or even other songs from the period, and pushed it as a big old-time Broadway musical, ala Anything Goes, they could have found an audience. Broadway musicals depend on tourists, and if the title says "classic," you need to give them something to hand their hat on.
I saw New York, NY. There were a LOT of recycled Kander and Ebb songs in it. The Set Design was amazing, good choreo, great lighting design. Anna Uzele was definitely snubbed for a Tony. She was outstanding! Better than Colton Ryan who did get nominated. The book was lacking, but it had the elements of an old timey musical. The only thing from the movie was the two main characters, and their relationship was presented differently. I saw the movie too and did not care for it. I liked the musical better than the movie. I think people chose Some Like it Hot over NY, NY. Both based on old movies, but more are familiar with that movie. But both are very traditional musicals.
@@johnbliss9330 - “Some Like it Hot” is also a financial flop. It has a weekly operating cost of $950k, and is not even breaking even at the box-office. The NYPost article that revealed “NY, NY” would close by the end of July, also reported the “Some Like it Hot” producers want to close the musical by Labor Day. Especially, since they had to take out another loan just to make it through awards season. It got good reviews and has a talented cast, but is still too generic and outdated to justify its existence. Broadway audiences (especially tourists) seem to want a spectacle, but for it to still feel fresh and current.
It’s a NATURAL course after the TONY’s and the Theatre Season ends. The usual casualties are current season musicals that did not win any Tonys & hold-over musicals from past seasons that have dwindling audiences & cannot make the “weekly nut” to survive.
In my opinion, "Ain't Too Proud" is a much better musical than Jersey Boys -- better story, better performances & more entertaining - especially on account of those dance moves in coloured jackets etc. I found Jersey Boys far too monochrome. But, also, there's a difference between the US & UK markets. The song "Ain't Too Proud" doesn't really mean anything to UK audiences - however much of a Motown fan they are - I don't even know if it was played much here. Their huge #1 US hit "My Girl" was NOT a hit over here - not even making the Top 20 & very few people will associate The Temptations with it. Otis Redding had the BIG hit over here with that song. . Conversely, "Get Ready" was a MASSIVE #4 hit in the UK, but failed in the States (a major turning point in their careers when they dropped Smokey in favour of Norman Whitfield). It's a shame that the musical couldn't have been retitled for the UK . . . "Get Ready . . for The Temptations musical". Although packed when I saw it, the Prince Edward is too big a venue for it. It would be great if it could transfer to a smaller theatre. Or, after it has toured, return to a smaller West End venue. It's far too good to finish for good.
THE WHO'S TOMMY is playing in Chicago until the end of July. I have heard that Pete Townshend and Des McAnuff want to bring the revival to Broadway. Why not bring that to the St. James Theatre? THE WHO'S TOMMY was there in it original run in the '90's. Why not bring the revival to the theatre where the original was? You could do a whole marketing thing around it. 30 year anniversary or comeback or something.
Sadly many shows are to elitist now I get production costs etc , but with a cost of living crisis and wages not going up with inflation many regular theatre goers like myself are just priced out 😢 where as I used to go almost weekly I now have to think 🤔 and choose carefully and look for offers
For Ain't Too Proud, honestly I've just seen so many musicals about the origins of American rock and roll and Motown in the past 10 years. Jersey Boys, Memphis, Dream Girls, Motown the musical, Beautiful, Tina, The Drifter's Girl... I've probably missed some. I'd probably really enjoy Ain't Too Proud but between train strikes, price hikes and everything else I'm happy to skip this one.
I was thinking of seeing Ain't Too Proud but trying to coordinate trains and show prices with my retail job in Edinburgh is a hassle. Hope it tours. There are more cities in the world other than London and New York 😛
It's always rather depressing hearing more industry-only content. There's so much beautiful art and passion out there but so much has to get sacrificed because money is so tight. We live in such a connected age but ultimately the main model of theater is in-person performances, that's the point, and that is not something the telecommunications can provide.
Ain’t Too Proud not having a great run reminded of Motown’s first tour in 1965, which didn’t go well. It only ended up leading to success because their was a BBC special with Dusty Springfield at the end of the tour. I love The Temptations, but I don’t know that they would have the same connection with a British audience outside boomers and Motown nerds like me. The last hit they had was in 1992 when My Girl was re-released because of the movie. Both those points would tie-in with your point about shows with predominantly black casts, telling black stories. They started off with a smaller audience who would be enthusiastic about seeing the show.
I think its interesting as in the case of Tina and JB audiences know what to expect what with the longevity of their shows and the stories being pretty famous outside of theatre (many people who you talk to about Tina would immediately lean towards her abusive relationship with Ike Turner and this is also notable as there have been films that have documented this such as the film "Whats love got to do with it?" starring Angela Bassett). For me I'm hoping this will give theatre a massive shake up it needs as it needs it.
MJ is starting at the Prince Edward Theatre in March 2024. So there will be under 6 months for something to be at the Prince Edward theatre between Ain't Too Proud closing and MJ opening.
In regards to A Strange Loop. Its coming to Los Angeles as part of the Ahmanson and my mom was decidedly underwhelmed by it and I don't doubt that the story's nature is a part of it. She won't not see it, but she definitely wouldn't have bought a ticket otherwise.
I'm **ANGRY** that NY, NY is closing early. I saw it coming... and in part, I think the reviews from these critics are to blame here. Because of the fact I was so hyped for these reviews, and given that this production only got a single Tony, I knew straight out the gate it was going to end early. I hope the impending US tour is a success.
Unfortunately I think the cost of tickets will see a lot of early closures in the West End. Crazy for you has fantastic reviews but it seems sluggish ticket sales…..
Crazy for you was fine but for me had no rewatchability, mai ly because the characters were paper thin and more importantly the music should have been better.
As a frequent west end goer, the shows that draw me in less are the jukebox biopic musicals - I really didn’t enjoy jersey boys AT ALL. Maybe it’s my age or maybe my musical preference but I prefer seeing musicals with an original score like heathers, beetlejuice, waitress however I did love moulin and mamma Mia. I think perhaps Ain’t too proud was just unfortunately not seen as a priority show for a lot of audiences, like you said p
Really another debate on why shows are closing the producers are seeing less bums on seats, they are going to pull it. New York New York is not the only show posting closure in NY. There is less money about people are being picky were they spend that money on and the west end doesn’t appeal to everyone’s taste or wallet
I wanted to live in New York city, my whole life and when I finally move there, New York, New York on Broadway was so underwhelming. No plot and it should’ve been about her not him. Two songs were exciting, Mateo character development was one shining moment.
I have seen a lot of theatre regionally in the UK, and in the West End and Broadway. I saw New York New York yesterday and for the first time ever I felt if I left in the interval I wouldn't be missing anything... I did stay until the end. There seemed to be sound issues, so intrigued by your comment MickeyJo that the sound was excellent, many times the vocals weren't loud enough, or they were muffled. And some of the scenic designs left a lot to be desired, for example people entering and exiting the subway but not consistently representing the stairways. A lot of small issues, but all add up to NYNY being the most disappointing show I have seen in a while.
I hadn’t even heard of ain’t too proud and I go to see a musical each month ! Really didn’t see any advertising but also agree who are the temptations ?
I was shocked when the book for NYNY was nominated for a Tony, that was the weakest element (followed by direction). As far as a national tour, the scenic design is one of the things that was amazing and that scale would be lost with touring sets.
This is very sad - I had heard recently that "Ain't Too Proud" was continuing until January. In my opinion, it's MUCH better than Jersey Boys, which is back in the West End. I think the Edward is too big - although it was packed when I saw it. "Get Ready" would have been a better title for the UK -- that song was a bigger hit here than "Ain't Too Proud". It would be great to see "Newsies" there to reach a different audience.
I saw "ain't to proud" a couple of weeks after it came out and it was really honestly bad, the performers were good but the plot DRAGGED it just felt like the rambling memories of an old man which it turned out it basically was. Really disappointing because I think with better writing they could have had something good going.
I saw Moulin Rouge because i know of the story on the west end & love the music loved your review of jamie & melissa. I'm going to see Broadway's & Juliet want to see the orginal cast, big backstreet boys fan. Planning to see Back to Future(Broadway), MJ or Sweeny Todd. Kimberly Akimboo is off the list, sorry. Bring back Elf the musical during the holiday on broadway. Fast Ham a transfer to west end. won't be surprised if Once Upon a Time might close soon.
As an American musical theatre actress living & working in the UK myself, I found your honesty about the racial aspect refreshing and necessary. Its a VERY valid & glaringly obvious point that many prefer to shy away from.
As you rightly said, the pool of UK black talent with a BIG household name in UK musical theatre is EXTREMELY small. There is NO doubt that Beverley Knight is 100% talented + gifted and rightfully deserves ALL her flowers. She has been in the charts for decades + has been able to successfully dominate & transition from a solo Soul / R&B career into TV Presenting + Musical theatre, hence why she is repeatedly cast in literally everything (The Bodyguard, Cats, Drifters Girl, Sister Act, Memphis, Sylvia, etc) because there is no one else really with a known name or that type of success as a UK black female that can pull in theatre audiences in that way.
There definitely ARE other talented individuals (who I won't name out of respect) but in comparison - they honestly don't have the same level of power associated with their names that can drive ticket sales.
This is something that really needs to be looked at in the UK and Im glad you share this sentiment x
I saw NYNY a few weeks ago. There were some things that I loved about it -- the sets and lighting were beautiful, loved the choreography, and the scene transitions (with dancing, and with ensemble members casually walking through the poses of famous NYC photos as a photographer character snapped their pictures) were just genius. But there was barely any plot, and pretty much zero character development. Like, we saw Jimmy say that he'd stop drinking about twenty times throughout the show, and there was nothing that made me believe that he actually meant it at the end. I went with my dad, who enjoys theatre but isn't really a "theatre person," and his comment was, "It was enjoyable, but it feels like it's missing something." (Also one weird scene that my father and I both noticed -- Jimmy is drinking something from a glass, his wife says something like, "You're drinking?" and he says, "Don't worry, it's just ginger ale." She sniffs the glass and says nothing more, which would usually mean that it actually was ginger ale and she didn't smell alcohol, but he was clearly acting drunk in that scene, and my dad and I were both confused about what we were supposed to think was in that glass.)
My son has lost his vision in the past 18 months and is just 17 .He was reluctant to go to theatre since vision loss( I have taken him to productions for many years) but he loved Dear England as did the adults he went with. The theatre ran a touch tour before the show with the chance to meet the cast, and this really helped the experience.
Good he was able to make use of those access offers, hopefully that can keep his connection with theatre. Did he use the audio description then or he still has some vision? How was it? I have always wondered how intrusive or not it is to the performance. I might try it some time providing there are spare headsets
Many of us are tired of jukebox musicals. Appreciate a show with originality.
I have zero interest in jukebox musicals. Never even seen one in person. If I'm deciding what to watch and realize I'm reading about a jukebox musical, I immediately move on to the next show. I think you're right, and that there are a lot of people out there who feel the same.
I HATE jukebox musicals. They have no artistic merit and are designed exclusively for commercial appeal. I have no interest in seeing Moulin Rouge/& Juliet or any of that ilk.
@@sterlingross919even ones with an original story and not biopics, like mamma mia?
@@sterlingross919- Woah there! Saying something doesn't have artistic merit simply because you don't care for it personally is extremely presumptuous and makes you sound like a pompous egotist. I'm not sure how old you are but when Moulin Rouge first came out in 2001 movie musicals as a genre were still very much dead in the water in terms of their mainstream box office appeal. Baz Luhrmann knew this and took it as a challenge to create something new, fresh and exciting for the start of the new century. Shows like Moulin Rouge, Mamma Mia! and American Idiot are a few great examples that prove when done right, jukebox musicals can be both visionary and incredibly fun and exciting. The problem right now is that the market is oversaturated with them. Too much of anything runs of the risk of becoming stale and boring, I mean just look at the current state of the Marvel movie franchise. That doesn't mean there isn't any artistic value or merit in these projects, it just means they need to be better thought out before rushing to push them out to the public.
But….
I like both Sing movies, especially the 2nd one.
Both were hits anyway despite being jukebox musical movies
In the 60's ,70's, and 80's it was very common for shows to close after the first or second performance. There is WAY too much money involved now for that to happen.
in regards to NYNY touring, I got into a convo about this on the Broadway subreddit and someone brought up the interesting point that some shows have a better time financially on tour due to people buying full season passes for their local touring house(s)
I think it also depends on the age group. Beetlejuice didn't work out on Broadway as well but is having a sell out tour. The younger crowd can't afford tickets to travel to New York but are much more able to afford a local tour ticket.
@@scribbly2983 - “Beetlejuice” did better on Broadway than almost everything from the 22/23 season. Only “Sweeney Todd”, “Parade”, and “&Juliet” have been successful. Even the “Into the Woods” revival was not as financially successful as the producers would have you believe. “NY, NY” cost $28mil to mount on Broadway, and lost even more than that. There is no way a tour will save it. It is not going to miraculously turn into “Beetlejuice”, and become a cult classic to sell the licensing rights to Norwegian Cruise Lines.
I’m honestly not surprised New York New York is closing. My cousin who worked on the show said that they got a rumor they would be closing on July 30th about a month ago. I’m just shocked it took so long to announce it!
My sister joked that it was to “celebrate” the 100th performance.
Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation of why shows close on both sides of the pond and for not shying away from racism as one of the reasons. Also, many congratulations and best wishes on your engagement!
Is there any current talk of Groundhog Day transferring to a West End theatre? I would be thrilled for it to have another run.
I’ve been waiting to hear your thoughts on Ain’t too proud closing because I was shocked when i saw the announcement of its closure especially since its closing early than the first initial closing date, originally when it got announced, it was meant to close end of October, then it got extended to January and now its mid September. I’m planning to see the show next month but I’m glad you mentioned the race element in this. Unfortunately I’m disappointed but not surprised. The lack of big names who are black in the musical theatre is limited. When I saw that sister act next year was gonna start Alexandra burke and Beverly Knight, I thought to myself “of course they cast most recognised black singers who have done musical theatres” when that could have an opportunity to a less known musical theatre actress who is black to take on the role besides them. As a black person it’s just frustrating seeing incredible shows not sell well purely because it has predominantly black cast but like I said disappointed but not surprised
In London ticket prices are almost twice as expensive as they were a couple of years ago, but the overall theatre experience isn’t twice as good. I think to keep shows running they really need to stop being greedy and keep prices to a more reasonable level.
idk about Ain't Too Proud but NYNY was *no* surprise. It was no secret that it was a critical and financial flop. The time between announcement and closing was odd though.
It sounds like NYNY was a creative love fest. No one wanted to be critical of anyone else’s work, I mean Lin Manuel isn’t going to start picking apart John Kander’s music or Stroman’s direction. What we ended up with is a bloated show of compromise rather than a tight piece of theatre that has been picked apart and put back together again to really get it right. Too much money, too much power, not enough editing. I mean I don’t even think they bothered with an out of town tryout?
The main criticism towards the music were the songs Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote. Stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Re: launching a tour despite an unsuccessful Broadway run, I'm not too surprised (unless they were just out of money to front for it). The time/cost needed to visit NYC is not to be underestimated (think of how much larger the US is vs the UK) and so many people will see shows locally that they would have never traveled to see, or see shows they may be less interested in just because it's part of the subscription package at their local theatre. I'm more fortunate than most to live about 4 hours away from NYC, and I typically make weekend trips a couple times per year (see 3 shows Saturday-Sunday and just pay for one night at a hotel). I will actually avoid seeing a show on Broadway if they've already announced a tour unless I just can't wait or specifically want to see the Broadway cast! Pretty much every national tour hits one of the theatres by me so I'd rather see something on Broadway I otherwise wouldn't get a chance to see. I imagine others are similarly choosey once they've spent hundreds and taken flights and have to then decide what they are most likely to enjoy, factoring in reviews, awards, etc. NY, NY was never a priority on my quick trips but I'll be glad to at least satisfy my curiosity with the tour.
Where do you live, since you're about 4 hours outside of Manhattan? I'm about 45 minutes outside of the city.
@@l.n.3372 Near DC
Mickey Jo, I've seen both shows. NYNY was a show with a huge problem-it had no storyline. The sets and costumes were spectacular; the choreography was great. But there was no there there. The story was nearly nonexistent. There were five extra storylines, but nothing to hold it together. Ultimately, it was tiresome and boring. Ain't Too Proud was just another Des McEnoff high-gloss typical technically right but actually boring time in the theatre. Yes it was proficient, but it had no heart. It was well done but yawn, yawn, yawn. In short, two misses, no hits.
Jukebox musicals definitely have a place but it does feel a bit overwhelming at the moment. I understand the broader appeal of jukebox and classic musicals but I get more excited by brand new shows that can take the audience on a new adventure, however big or small.
Its unfortunate for the cast and crew when shows dont have long runs but hopefully the time and experience leads to other opportunities for them. Hopefully they were given a better heads up then a weeks notice they were closing.
I went to see this show with low expectations but I walked out really enjoying it so I’m sad it is closing. I will say I’m not someone who necessarily analyzes shows much (smooth brain) unless there are particularly egregious plot holes but I had a lot of fun seeing the costumes, choreography, sets, etc. I’m sad it didn’t get a longer run. I hope the creatives got some extra heads up behind the scenes before the announcement came out
Great video! Its sad when shows close, I think the west end should publish grosses. Hopefully going to see Ain't too proud soon. Ive heard the newsies transfer gossip too. Hopefully i can get too see it if it does!
It's always sad when people lose their jobs but it's the way the business works and NY NY was subpar at best. Some great visuals and performances, but a mediocre and all-over-the-place script.
After seeing the performance on the Tony’s, I wasn’t impressed with NY NY at all!
@@KristinaNorman - Same…. “NY, NY” even released a clip of the tap dance number on the scaffolding, and it looked so boring and unimaginative. Honestly, “Some Like it Hot” also was incredibly unimpressive at the Tonys. Talented cast but such an outdated storyline. Which clearly explains why, despite all its wins, it still is losing money every week.
I just saw New York , New York. I saw that scaffolding scene. It was amazing , as was the Umbrella scene , Spanish dance scene ….
holy shit, been meaning to see new york new york and hadn't gotten around to it yet! so glad you posted this, I just grabbed a ticket for tomorrow night to slide in before it's gone forever.
Once Upon a One More Time is about to close too. It opened barely more than a month ago and it’s been at 50% capacity basically since it’s second week.
They've been doing a media blitz and it's not working.
I’m so surprised. I know someone who has seen it 7 times. Please. You guys reading this. Fabulous show !!!! Music was great , the choreography impeccable , Justin guarini is terrific. Loved this show. You come out happy and isn’t this what a show is supposed to do
It had a good run in DC, I think that while the plot differs, the reality is it's attracting the same crowd as &Juliet (fenale focused retelling with a pop soundtrack) and that one is filling the space. I also wonder if the Bad Cinderella vibe also hurt the show because it's another Cinderella take. The reality is they dropped it in a competitive space and they may have done better if they'd taken it around more and waited until it had less direct competition.
I also LOVED Bad Cinderella. I don’t remember the last time I laughed so hard. It was different. The And Juliet tix are inaccessible, so expensive
@@scribbly2983 You're right about the competition. I didn't understand how much overlap there was between the 2 shows until I had seen both and I have to say &Juliet is just better. Once is still a lot of fun but it definitely suffers by comparison.
I will be in London prior to Ain’t too Proud closing, but on your recommendation have booked for A Strange Loop
I'm glad I caught your review on New York new york. Because I've been seeing clips and just thinking it's a lunatic that this show was closing. Just look phenomenal from the clips
You are so right about Broadway! I recently went to see Sweeney Todd and I did so partly because I felt only a Broadway production of ST would fully do it justice. In that case, I felt OK about spending over $100 per ticket for the production. And while I don't love the B'Way pricing economy, it truly did feel special to watch such a magnificent and impressive production of an epic musical. I hadn't really considered the angle of going to see shows on Broadway because it is Broadway. However, I really feel that is what motivates my Broadway visits.
I am not a fan of jukebox musicals. The exception is Ain't Too Proud which I saw on Broadway. I absolutely loved it.
I'm in no way a dedicated football fan but 'Dear England' is a really fun, confident, electrifying production. I was lucky to see it last night for the second time.
The ampitheatre space of the Olivier makes it feel like an Event before the show has even started so I wonder whether the Gillian Lynne Theatre would be more appropriate for it, maybe in the run up to the Euros next Summer. In all honesty I wish it would just return to the National Theatre next year; the NT could use it as a great opportunity to get a more wide-ranging audience through its doors.
There is a sad version of NY NY! Carey Mulligan sings a downbeat version in the film "Shame" :)
I saw NYNY on the 1st of July and I thought it was absolutely wonderful but sadly it was a Saturday night in peak season and the theatre wasn’t full!! It was such a fun show and I didn’t agree with the reviews about it.
I agree. And the technical elements were excellent.
i haven't been within striking distance of Broadway for years. You make me feel connected to a world I still love
Re: NY NY-I imagine it will be a lean equity or noneq tour, aiming to recoup some of the vast amounts of capital on Broadway and help pay back investors, plus get the brand name out there for when it goes into licensing. Announcing tours around Tony’s is a) part of campaign strategy and b) partially because the road conference coincides with Tony season.
Loving your content and hope to connect when I’m in London!!
You were in my city! How exciting! I watched the show one week before you and was awed by the defying gravity too. So great. Did you know that the actresses playing Elphie and Glinda are sisters?
I went to see Ain't Too Proud with my mum back in April and we both really enjoyed it. I was surprised to see it closing early, given the extension to January was announced fairly recently, was that maybe just overly optimistic of them that they thought things might pick up? I can see where in a very crowded market for jukebox shows though, it might get lost. It doesn't have the spectacle or big film name recognition of Moulin Rouge, it doesn't have the immediate song recognition of something like Tina or Jersey Boys and The Temptations don't have the same kind of popularity here as ABBA or Queen which send people flocking to Mamma Mia or We Will Rock You. Basically anyone who wants to see a jukebox show in London at the moment is covered by one of these options so it's kind of hard to see where Ain't Too Proud fits.
Also advertising wise, I can't say I've seen anywhere near as many posters/billboards for Ain't Too Proud as for other shows: the new Moulin Rouge posters are everywhere, as is Operation Mincemeat, Mrs Doubtfire, Crazy For You, Groundhog Day....the list goes on. I've seen some Ain't Too Proud posters but nowhere near as many as for other new shows opening this year or even established shows so I wonder if lack of marketing also played a part?
Don’t forget about juke box musical Moulin Rouge!
The new cast of moulin rouge in the west end is outstanding
You called it! Dear England is coming to the Prince Edward Theatre! It’s the first time in almost forever that the Prince Edward will have a drama play than a musical.
I also observe that the National Theatre is having a good year before Rufus Norris steps down within two years. The Crucible, The Motive and the Cue, and now Dear England have or will be having West End runs, specifically at the Delfont Mackintosh Theatres (Gielgud for The Crucible, Noël Coward for Motive, and Prince Edward for Dear England). Hopefully The Witches does well financially for the holidays, and it could potentially be the next Matilda of the National.
I’m seeing New York New York on Saturday and I feel genuinely so bad for the cast and crew and everyone involved in that show.
Brilliant analysis!!!
If you can get tickets to Dear England then do, it's glorious
I saw Aint too proud during the preview week. I loved it, the performances were brilliant especially Tosh who is such a huge talent. Im sad that its closing but i think possibly it would have done better in a smaller theatre.
The Temptations had their story covered in Motown the Musical. Both The Drifters and The Temptations don't have really interesting back stories too. The Four Seasons story had a story already woven into to rock n roll folklore, the mob money, the handshake etc.
I think it's very lazy to say it's race related, Hamilton, Dreamgirls, 5 guys named Moe all did very well.
A Strange Loop, doesn't appeal to me because it sound like it's based totally on American identity politics so will have all the subtlety of a sledge hammer
“A Strange Loop” was not popular on Broadway either. It had the shortest run of any Best Musical winner ever, and that includes Stephen Sondheim’s “Passion”.
Both "Ain't Too Proud" and "The Grifters Girl" got bad press about noisy audience behaviour and I wonder if that has something to do with it?
"For Black boys who Consider Suicide" did well "A Strange Loop" is not.I wonder if it's more to do with subject matter rather than the demography of the audience
interesting, I didn't realize West End doesn't publish grosses like Broadway does
Also Camelot closed early, and while it isn't a musical, and was known from the start that it was a limited run, Grey House closed around a month early.
I was discussing exactly why a lot of shows are struggling with my mum (in early 70s) and she had some thoughts about this
1) Temptations and Drifters shows- possibly restricted audience appeal, more suited to an older crowd who grew up with the songs? Younger audience may not be inclined to take a punt thereby reducing the overall number attending (plus crossover of basically the same show again)
2) I loved the cast in Drifters Girl as the songs are so good and they really sold it but it couldn't hide how flimsy the book was and. I think they announced the closure as soon as Beverly left? Will prob do ok on Tour
re the racial aspect - Im not sure I agree people don't want to see black shows - Dreamgirls was a big hit both in West End and on tour and Tina is still going strong - I just don't think it helped Aint too Proud that Drifters girl was so recent (and didn't do amazing box office - I managed to get top price tix for half price even with Beverly Knight still in it)
3) A Stranger Loop - there wasn't much buzz about this here or even Broadway - I know it won the Tony but only lasted 300 performances - Possibly a younger crowd only (possibly TOO Meta?) - difficult to attract an older audience plus wrong venue - maybe more suited to a smaller arthouse venue?
4) The Cost of tickets - the West End has priced itself out of the market. Prices are insane. Seems to be borne out as seeing lots of offers through discount sites for Brand new shows (e.g. Crazy for You from over £100 to £50 etc) people aren't willing to pay for shows with OK/ middling reviews/
6) the overall cost of visiting London now for a weekend for out of towners (me!) - Prices have basically doubled since Covid restrictions lifted once you factor in hotel, travel, food etc. next month im only seeing one show (Next to Normal) instead usually doing 2 in a weekend (although have Hadestown and Long Days Journey into night to look forward to next year)
The play Grey House is also closing on Broadway, it was really good and I'm sad.
I wonder if fears of additional strikes are also a factor.
Nice bit of Cinderella shade at the end 😅🙈
I absolutely loved Ain’t Too Proud. I usually dislike jukebox musicals unless it’s the story of the band/musician, and The Temptations have a more interesting story than the Four Seasons so I loved it way more than Jersey Boys for the drama.
I just think it was bad timing and too big of a theatre. I agree about the title too. I don’t think that song title has the same resonance to scream “Temptations” with the same iconography as the other ones you mentioned.
It should have been called "Get Ready" - which was a bigger hit in the UK than the US. The opposite with "Ain't Too Proud".
Very interesting episode (had me wondering what WAS the last play at the Prince Edward - if there ever was one). It may be important to think about ticket prices at times like this. So many critics lose touch with the cost of going to West End shows (yes I know it's chicken feed compared to Broadway). "Supporting" a show (as I have done for A Strange Loop) is not a cheap risk to take. Maybe you'll say more about pricing at some point. I'm loving your reviews and learning a lot. (What a shocker The Bridge won't be up for Oliviers, and I had no idea there was a Spamalot parallel with Camelot). Thank you! PS Could The Osmonds show be up for Christmas at the P.E.?
I think the Broadway reception of stage adaptations of films just depends on the property. We've seen some huge hits on Broadway -- The Producers was about as big as it gets during its run. Mean Girls, Moulin Rouge, Beetlejuice, Spamalot, Hairspray were all hits. There've been big whiffs too -- Mrs. Doubtfire, Groundhog Day, Tootsie, etc. I will admit to being one of those snobs who is irritated by adaptations -- it often feels like a crass attempt to capitalize on a known IP. But I also have to admit some of those shows (both the successes and failures) were pretty good, and have some of my favorite songs. I just prefer more original, risky work. I suppose that's what Off Broadway is for. . . . .
Non-musical plays: I'd love to hear you speak (more) about them as well. Also, off-Broadway plays and musicals. The off-Broadway Roundabout Theatre Company's 2019 production of Selina Fillinger's stunning world premiere of "Something Clean" was as engrossing as it was unforgettable.
This is so interesting, I recently saw Ain't Too Proud and really enjoyed it but the audience was very empty. My Mum questioned why it wasn't selling when the likes of Jersey Boys is and the only thing I could think of was because it's a show with a predominantly black cast which never seem to sell as well. I can't think of a better way to explain that and am certainly not being racist in my comments but your explaination was exactly what I'd been trying to convey. Thank you for raising this.
The Ain't too proud notice came a few days after I saw it and honestly I'm not surprised. It felt like a less interesting mash up of other biopic jukebox musicals I've seen. It's a big shame because I think there's a really interesting story there with good music and fantastic actors
One major thought against dear England is if they want a west end transfer they might want to wait till next summer and the European championships hopefully capitalising on the tournament to get people to see it
Yes. Plus they could go into the Gillian Lynnne theatre which is a lot more similar in atmosphere to the Olivier space.
I’m so sad grey house is closing 😢
I've seen both Ain't Too Proud and Aspects - at both the theatre's were less than 60% full, and were full of much older people.
With some older people reluctant to get back to enclosed places like theatre, perhaps it's more difficult for these types of shows?
I could see a strange loop closing early in the westend as well given ticket sales thus far.
Sad about NY NY. Didn't get to see it so can't speak to the plot points or character development, but the cast album is sensational and the show looks damn good. Maybe this tour launch allow them to fix the issues and make the substance as good as the spectacle and music.
I think you could also think about Get Up, Stand up in this conversation.
Oh absolutely!
Considering “NY, NY” had the highest weekly operating costs, in Broadway history, it would have closed even if it won Best Musical. However, it turned out to be a mediocre to terrible musical, so it was doomed from the gate. The closing announcement was not abrupt as that article makes it seem. Johnny Oleksinsky dropped the news a few weeks ago, that the producers had to close by the end of July. He also revealed the real budget…. $28mil investment and $1.2mil weekly operating costs. Meaning, it lost more money than it cost. I have no idea why it cost that much. The set was elaborate but nothing to warrant that budget. There is no way the national tour will ever happen.
I don't see it that way. I think the national tour will happen, but it will be significantly lower budget (maybe the mid-hundred thousands at highest). As well, Susan Stroman, if she directs, will definitely adapt the set to take into account that the persistent wave of inflation we're in will still be just that for the next little while.
@@dukeofrodtown1705 - This musical has no audience. NYers hated it, and tourists were completely uninterested.
Went to see ain't too proud last Friday. My partner and I met each other at a Motown bar so we had a wonderful time, the talent and the musicians were phenomenal. We also saw Motown back in 2019 for the same reasons and Tina back in 2022. (I'm slowly breaking my musical reluctant boyfriend with music he likes before I blow his mind with original scores) Tina Turner is also my hero!
My main criticism of it was that I've seen this story a million times, even in films. Films like bohemian rhapsody, rocketman, I wanna dance with somebody... Every story of artists will have drugs, heartbreak, potential domestic violence, death. I could just feel the beats of the story before they happened. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, I really did! I just knew what was coming and when I was reading the programme during the interval, I was playing guess how the song will be shoe horned into the story... Ooo War by Edwin Starr must be a criticism of the Vietnam war! (Just a little game I play with myself)
I think why I preferred we will rock you and to some extent Mamma Mia is although it's jukebox, it's also a brand new story and yes I like to play how did they shoe horn this song in? (french and Saunders parodies this beautifully with their honey honey bit) but I just prefer when the story isn't a biopic because it adds originality despite pre existing songs.
Ooo my sister saw this with Beverly knight and Matt cardle and has played me the soundtrack a fair few times! What a brilliant suggestion :)
nice shirt and congrats on the engagement!
Temptations was in a smaller venue on Broadway than the west ends prince edward. Same as waitress on Broadway V waitress in the west end
Just announced: Following a well-received 10-day run at The Kennedy Center in Washington D.C., a revival of Spamalot will be opening at The St. James Theater (current home to Funny Girl) in November.
Very interesting episode. I'd make a few comments: Regarding the matter of black performers I'd suggest there's also the issue of audiences. The majority of audience members at shows I go to (including Drifters Girl) are white. Why don't other people go to the theatre and what can be done to encourage them?
Secondly, Guys and Dolls is phenomenal and stars two amazing black performers (amongst other leads).
Finally, I was interested in A Strange Loop but put off by all the swearing 🙂
Jersey Boys is in quite a small theatre. Was surprised to see Ain't Too Proud closing early, more so because of the recent extension (which makes you think things are going well), so this was a surprise and annoying it's a week earlier than the initial run (I had booked for the 20th).
re: Next for St. James. The Wiz sit down is a rumor I have heard as well.
The main problem with the St. James Theatre is its size. It is one of the largest theaters on Broadway, and extremely expensive to operate. Would a revival of “The Wiz” be able to generate that type of revenue to sustain even a limited run?
you forgot moulin rouge ahahahah. so sad to hear that a strange loop isn’t doing that well on west end… i’m based in asia and was hoping that i’ll have a chance to visit london in the second half of next year and strange loop would definitely be one of the first shows i’ll catch if i could but doesn’t seem like it’ll be lasting this long after all...
I saw Ain’t too Proud Touring. It’s good… the sets are a bit lack luster. I felt the casting was a bit off and didn’t embody the characters and mannerisms of the actual Temptations. I enjoyed it a lot! But I can see why it’s closing.
As a midwest American, there are theater aficionados here who keep up with the Broadway goings on, but for the most part we're pretty distant. There's a lot of people who would go to see the tour of New York New York just for the song. That will be enough to sell tickets. They like the song, so the show has to be enjoyable. My opinion, I'm not an expert.
I hope MJ the Musical will cast Ivano Turco
I'm not surprised by NYNY's closing. I think the producers over-estimated the name draw. The movie wasn't terribly successful, and is most remembered for pairing Lisa Minelli and Robert DeNiro, under the direction of Martin Scorsese. I have no memory of the plot, which I understand was changed for the musical anyway. Perhaps if the producers had integrated more Kander and Ebb songs (well-known songs from other properties) or even other songs from the period, and pushed it as a big old-time Broadway musical, ala Anything Goes, they could have found an audience. Broadway musicals depend on tourists, and if the title says "classic," you need to give them something to hand their hat on.
I saw New York, NY. There were a LOT of recycled Kander and Ebb songs in it. The Set Design was amazing, good choreo, great lighting design. Anna Uzele was definitely snubbed for a Tony. She was outstanding! Better than Colton Ryan who did get nominated.
The book was lacking, but it had the elements of an old timey musical. The only thing from the movie was the two main characters, and their relationship was presented differently. I saw the movie too and did not care for it. I liked the musical better than the movie.
I think people chose Some Like it Hot over NY, NY. Both based on old movies, but more are familiar with that movie. But both are very traditional musicals.
@@yankee04 I think you're right about people choosing Some Like it Hot over NY, NY. It helped that Hot received better reviews.
@@johnbliss9330 - “Some Like it Hot” is also a financial flop. It has a weekly operating cost of $950k, and is not even breaking even at the box-office. The NYPost article that revealed “NY, NY” would close by the end of July, also reported the “Some Like it Hot” producers want to close the musical by Labor Day. Especially, since they had to take out another loan just to make it through awards season. It got good reviews and has a talented cast, but is still too generic and outdated to justify its existence. Broadway audiences (especially tourists) seem to want a spectacle, but for it to still feel fresh and current.
@@ChienaAvtzon Didn’t know that. I can’t believe people like jukebox musicals more than original productions. Sad really.
@@yankee04 - There is nothing original about “Some Like it Hot” or “NY, NY”. There are just generic musicals based on outdated movies.
It’s a NATURAL course after the TONY’s and the Theatre Season ends. The usual casualties are current season musicals that did not win any Tonys & hold-over musicals from past seasons that have dwindling audiences & cannot make the “weekly nut” to survive.
In my opinion, "Ain't Too Proud" is a much better musical than Jersey Boys -- better story, better performances & more entertaining - especially on account of those dance moves in coloured jackets etc. I found Jersey Boys far too monochrome.
But, also, there's a difference between the US & UK markets. The song "Ain't Too Proud" doesn't really mean anything to UK audiences - however much of a Motown fan they are - I don't even know if it was played much here. Their huge #1 US hit "My Girl" was NOT a hit over here - not even making the Top 20 & very few people will associate The Temptations with it. Otis Redding had the BIG hit over here with that song. . Conversely, "Get Ready" was a MASSIVE #4 hit in the UK, but failed in the States (a major turning point in their careers when they dropped Smokey in favour of Norman Whitfield).
It's a shame that the musical couldn't have been retitled for the UK . . . "Get Ready . . for The Temptations musical".
Although packed when I saw it, the Prince Edward is too big a venue for it. It would be great if it could transfer to a smaller theatre. Or, after it has toured, return to a smaller West End venue. It's far too good to finish for good.
Hi all, people say they don’t refund tickets for New York, New York. It's upsetting and weird 🤪
THE WHO'S TOMMY is playing in Chicago until the end of July. I have heard that Pete Townshend and Des McAnuff want to bring the revival to Broadway.
Why not bring that to the St. James Theatre? THE WHO'S TOMMY was there in it original run in the '90's. Why not bring the revival to the theatre where the original was? You could do a whole marketing thing around it. 30 year anniversary or comeback or something.
Sadly many shows are to elitist now I get production costs etc , but with a cost of living crisis and wages not going up with inflation many regular theatre goers like myself are just priced out 😢 where as I used to go almost weekly I now have to think 🤔 and choose carefully and look for offers
Love your video´s, is this really how you pronounce biopic in the UK??
Ethan Slater staring into our souls in the background 👀 Why isn’t he with Ari???
🤣🤣🤣
Another biopic jukebox musical: Beautiful
For Ain't Too Proud, honestly I've just seen so many musicals about the origins of American rock and roll and Motown in the past 10 years. Jersey Boys, Memphis, Dream Girls, Motown the musical, Beautiful, Tina, The Drifter's Girl... I've probably missed some. I'd probably really enjoy Ain't Too Proud but between train strikes, price hikes and everything else I'm happy to skip this one.
I was thinking of seeing Ain't Too Proud but trying to coordinate trains and show prices with my retail job in Edinburgh is a hassle. Hope it tours. There are more cities in the world other than London and New York 😛
I loved the NY production of AIN’T TOO PROUD. I hope it will continue performing off-Broadway as a few others have.
It's always rather depressing hearing more industry-only content. There's so much beautiful art and passion out there but so much has to get sacrificed because money is so tight. We live in such a connected age but ultimately the main model of theater is in-person performances, that's the point, and that is not something the telecommunications can provide.
Ain’t Too Proud not having a great run reminded of Motown’s first tour in 1965, which didn’t go well. It only ended up leading to success because their was a BBC special with Dusty Springfield at the end of the tour.
I love The Temptations, but I don’t know that they would have the same connection with a British audience outside boomers and Motown nerds like me. The last hit they had was in 1992 when My Girl was re-released because of the movie.
Both those points would tie-in with your point about shows with predominantly black casts, telling black stories. They started off with a smaller audience who would be enthusiastic about seeing the show.
Mickey jo are you going to be going to musical con this year? I really want to but I have no musical theatre friends to go with 😭
I think its interesting as in the case of Tina and JB audiences know what to expect what with the longevity of their shows and the stories being pretty famous outside of theatre (many people who you talk to about Tina would immediately lean towards her abusive relationship with Ike Turner and this is also notable as there have been films that have documented this such as the film "Whats love got to do with it?" starring Angela Bassett).
For me I'm hoping this will give theatre a massive shake up it needs as it needs it.
MJ is starting at the Prince Edward Theatre in March 2024. So there will be under 6 months for something to be at the Prince Edward theatre between Ain't Too Proud closing and MJ opening.
In regards to A Strange Loop. Its coming to Los Angeles as part of the Ahmanson and my mom was decidedly underwhelmed by it and I don't doubt that the story's nature is a part of it. She won't not see it, but she definitely wouldn't have bought a ticket otherwise.
I'm **ANGRY** that NY, NY is closing early. I saw it coming... and in part, I think the reviews from these critics are to blame here. Because of the fact I was so hyped for these reviews, and given that this production only got a single Tony, I knew straight out the gate it was going to end early. I hope the impending US tour is a success.
Unfortunately I think the cost of tickets will see a lot of early closures in the West End. Crazy for you has fantastic reviews but it seems sluggish ticket sales…..
Crazy for you was fine but for me had no rewatchability, mai ly because the characters were paper thin and more importantly the music should have been better.
As a frequent west end goer, the shows that draw me in less are the jukebox biopic musicals - I really didn’t enjoy jersey boys AT ALL. Maybe it’s my age or maybe my musical preference but I prefer seeing musicals with an original score like heathers, beetlejuice, waitress however I did love moulin and mamma Mia. I think perhaps Ain’t too proud was just unfortunately not seen as a priority show for a lot of audiences, like you said p
Really another debate on why shows are closing the producers are seeing less bums on seats, they are going to pull it. New York New York is not the only show posting closure in NY. There is less money about people are being picky were they spend that money on and the west end doesn’t appeal to everyone’s taste or wallet
I wanted to live in New York city, my whole life and when I finally move there, New York, New York on Broadway was so underwhelming. No plot and it should’ve been about her not him. Two songs were exciting, Mateo character development was one shining moment.
I have seen a lot of theatre regionally in the UK, and in the West End and Broadway. I saw New York New York yesterday and for the first time ever I felt if I left in the interval I wouldn't be missing anything... I did stay until the end.
There seemed to be sound issues, so intrigued by your comment MickeyJo that the sound was excellent, many times the vocals weren't loud enough, or they were muffled. And some of the scenic designs left a lot to be desired, for example people entering and exiting the subway but not consistently representing the stairways. A lot of small issues, but all add up to NYNY being the most disappointing show I have seen in a while.
I hadn’t even heard of ain’t too proud and I go to see a musical each month ! Really didn’t see any advertising but also agree who are the temptations ?
I was shocked when the book for NYNY was nominated for a Tony, that was the weakest element (followed by direction). As far as a national tour, the scenic design is one of the things that was amazing and that scale would be lost with touring sets.
This is very sad - I had heard recently that "Ain't Too Proud" was continuing until January. In my opinion, it's MUCH better than Jersey Boys, which is back in the West End. I think the Edward is too big - although it was packed when I saw it. "Get Ready" would have been a better title for the UK -- that song was a bigger hit here than "Ain't Too Proud".
It would be great to see "Newsies" there to reach a different audience.
Bedknobs and Broomsticks would be a great idea! 😎
I saw "ain't to proud" a couple of weeks after it came out and it was really honestly bad, the performers were good but the plot DRAGGED it just felt like the rambling memories of an old man which it turned out it basically was. Really disappointing because I think with better writing they could have had something good going.
I hope for a Sondheim
I saw Moulin Rouge because i know of the story on the west end & love the music loved your review of jamie & melissa. I'm going to see Broadway's & Juliet want to see the orginal cast, big backstreet boys fan. Planning to see Back to Future(Broadway), MJ or Sweeny Todd. Kimberly Akimboo is off the list, sorry.
Bring back Elf the musical during the holiday on broadway.
Fast Ham a transfer to west end.
won't be surprised if Once Upon a Time might close soon.