Dude… this shit is GOLDEN. Wow. Can’t speak highly enough about the information in this video. And such great delivery and communication with everything . Well done, man, well done. Thank you
Mine always idles at around 900-1000 rpm’s. Even when I adjust the idle screw it will idle high again after driving it around for a while. Sometimes it will diesel when I turn it off as well?
You should check for a bent throttle shaft right away. With the return springs removed, and car NOT running. (It is helpful to remove the carb so you can see the throttle plates.) Move the linkage arm through it's range of travel a couple of times and let it return naturally. Then see if the throttle arm needs to still be moved to close fully. Repeat this a couple times. If so, you likely have a bent throttle shaft. This can be caused by having the throttle cable being too short, and overpull at wide open throttle, tweaking the shaft. This is an extremely dangerous condition as it can lead to the carburetor hanging open under throttle. That would explain the sometimes dieseling because it's allowing more air into the engine as it spins down. The carburetor always flows fuel a little on shut-down (unlike fuel injection). There's no spark with the ignition off, but fuel+air+hot is where dieseling comes from. If that's the case you should at a minimum replace the throttle plate immediately. It might also be that you've got your idle mix too rich, so you have to give it extra idle speed to run at idle. Hope this helps.
That's an interesting theory, and I am not saying you're wrong, but its also interesting that other Chevy, Ford and Mopar V8s want the same amount of timing whether they are port injected or carbureted.
Mine has been in my car for almost 8 years without missing a trick. Kyle, one of the owners had a 6014 in an LS powered '70 Cougar with which he completed Drag Week, and the Hot Rod Power Tour, drove on nice days and did road racing and autocross events. We've not had reported failures on a single one of the boxes we've installed. I'd say they're pretty reliable.
for just street driving what should my timing be its a LS 6.0 bored 30 over 650 holy carb 585 lift duration 228 intake 230 exhaust 6014 msd box 317 heads with bigger valve springs and up graded rockers 25 to 2700 stall converter with long tube headers i have the box set on truck ho and if i try and do a burn out at about 3000 to 4000 rpm it falls flat on its face i tried tuning the carb and still if you can point me in the right spot i would appreciate it.
That sounds like an intermediate circuit problem on the carb (squirter/pump cam). you powerbrake it up to 3000 and put it to the floor and it falls on its face? You're probably going to end up somewhere around 30 degrees of timing, but there's no substitute for using the method outlined in the video and finding out what yours actually wants.
I have a question. Love your channel!! First my husband has a street truck 5.3 LS carb. We have the msd box 6014. It is downloaded. When I pull up the MSD View I'm not seeing all of the A-F icons all usable. We are trying to set the ignition timing. He is using custom 1 and we have the ignition timing set on the app. I can't get it to go into the MSD box. Not sure what we are not doing correctly. If you could help it would be greatly appreciated. 7/10/2024
I really recommend using the procedure outlined in the video at about 3:15. They usually end up in the thirties range, but its better to know what your particular combination wants. They're not all the same by any means.
Getting ready to put a carb on a stock 2009 6.0, in a 84 Regal, so any info on this setup would be great! Thanks! also would like to spray it with a small shot of NOS, any info on that would also be greatly appreciated.
I do cover the functionality of the timing retard for the nitrous in the previous video, and the best way to get your timing baseline in in this video. If you need more help, please give us a call at the shop 217.590.0128, ask for Steve.
This is great! Thanks for explaining this stuff . I have an 01 5.7LS1 with patriot 243 ported heads, 228R cam ,1-7/8" headers. Preformer rmp I take and a QF 750 race carb. I'm wondering what you think a good starting point for degrees at idle, and what point would you start ramping up your timing. I'm running 28° total starting @1300rpm right now. Car runs ok but does diesel a bit when I shut it down on warmer days. I realize all motors are different. Just looking for your thoughts as I don't have a track or dyno shop nearby.
The ignition timing isn't likely itself to be the direct source of the problem, as there is no ignition activity after you shut the car off. A carburetor will still flow fuel on engine shutdown because the engine is still pulling fuel through it as it spins down. If the throttle blades are open to let enough air in, and if there's a secondary ignition source, carbon, a hot or too hot heat range spark plug, etc, it can diesel. I do not run that much ignition timing in any of my carbureted stuff. Most often it's 15*. You can run high timing to alleviate an overly rich condition, but you're better off adjusting the carb properly. On that carb, I would start with 15* to 1500, idle mixture screws 3/4 of one turn out from bottom, and adjust idle speed to where it needs to be when there's heat in the engine. Important: Check plugs, if black use new ones to set idle. Best of luck!
Great video. I have a suggestion that i think would be extremely popular; tuning a carbed LS cradle to grave using 6014. Slap a untuned 750 dp on and start the process. Show default idle timing to tune carb, show different changes and tuning tips used for getting your idle set, work into testing and settings used for first drive etc. I have never seen any video's breaking down all the small things that most of us kill ourselves researching as garage/weekend builders. It would be a carb ls learning adventure
@Scramspeed I bet. Possibly break it into sections like first start. Intial carb tune, fist drive etc. Might not be so overwhelming that way and allow more time for different segments
Love the content, please keep em coming! I am on my 2nd Carb'd LS, 1st was a LY5 Cammed that went bang.."my fault". Now im onto LQ4 cammed. Been using ProForms 750 Street, I've been having good luck with it so far. I wish i had the 6014, im currently running 6012. -using gen4 crank of course* The additional features on the 6014 are impressive over my 6012.
Glad its helping! That is a solid carb choice for that engine. We are working on more. If you ever do decide you'd like to upgrade, we'd be happy to help!
Sounds like you don't have a connection to the box. Try a different USB port on your computer. The box uses a virtual serial port, and that is usually directly tied to a specific USB port on the computer. Sometimes it changes with Microsoft update....
That's definitely one of the theories we've heard. The counterargument being that other V8 engines don't have dissimilar timing from port injection when carbureted. Then that usually devolves into discussions about IATs because of coolant passages in the conventional intakes and such and such. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know if anyone has tested it.
We had a fellow submit a question on our Contact Us page about the 6014 videos, but he left us the wrong email address! We'd love to help you. Please try again!
@@Scramspeed then my tach must be going back :/ I’m a few hundred off what the data logger shows as the correct rpm. Had the shift light on the tach at 6800 and the data logger showed 7400!
@@2manyhobbiezz Could be. Id trust the box over the tach. 6014 gets that number from the crank sensor. If it had the RPMS wrong, the car probably wouldn't run. Before you buy a tach, put a camera in the car to see if you can tell what's going on.
just picked up a 55 chevy with a ls and a msd box and I am new to this and this video helps me understand it a bit more. I am staring to install it in the car soon so i may contact you if I run into any issues.....thanks again
@@forged_billions2 my understanding is that cranking timing is fixed at 15*. I usually have my 500-1000 there as well. I would look for a vacuum leak, make sure coil packs are plugged in correct sides, and be certain idle mixture screws are opened properly
Think they need a better map diagram, it goes from like 100 to 200 so on . Can’t really get a accurate ready unless your watching in real time . Unless there is a way I have t figured out yet
I use the logger. Drive+log, check data, make adjustement, repeat. Other than that I don't have any special advice. Its remedial compared to an EFI system, but it works well enough for most folks.
@@Scramspeed yeah it is decent, I have been using it for about a year . That was my only fault , other than that is a very easy to use set up . These videos help out a lot when you are new at something . Great lesson , thanks for reply
Im about to do a nitrous shot on my setup. 6014 ls1 750 hp carb I plan on a 150 shot. This is going off of info i have gathered on the internet, lol. Ngk 7 heat range plug, plan on pull 10° just to be safe from 3k on. Its in a 84 el camino. I have 29° total in it. Has 2.73 gear and a th400. Runs 12.2 at 117 now. Im going through traps in 2nd gear. I plan on running the 150 right after i shift to 2nd so i don't break everything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I'll just say, your car is extremely fast for a 2.73 NA LS1! Definitely needs more gear. I would address that before doing anything else. My calc (not accounting for converter slip) is that you're hitting the trap at 5500 in second gear. A 3.73 gear is going to deliver more much performance than 150 shot at this point, especially if you're only spraying at half track. If I understand correctly, you haven't sprayed it yet, you currently have 29* total timing, and you're looking at spraying a 150 shot and pulling 10* with an NGK 7 heat range plug. I'm assuming pump gas. The 29* timing is likely to be conservative for your engine to start with. Pulling 10* is pretty extreme for a 150 shot and will hurt performance. If it were mine (and its not!), I would pull 2* on 150, click it off in the traps and read the plugs. I expect you will find that it would like more timing and that it will be fat (most factory nitrous kits are). But again, you're going to be way ahead with less risk to put a gear in the car. Hope this helps.
@Scramspeed thanks helps a lot. I have been gathering parts for a 3.73 build. I already got Moser axles. I didn't build the ls1. I bought it second hand. It was out of a 02 z28. Has lingenfelter gt 12 cam and ported 799 heads. I put a carburetor on it and crammed it in my el camino. I was surprised how fast it is. Thanks for your input. Look forward to learning more from you guys.
Yes. The details on where it is and how to set it are pretty close to the beginning of our first video on the 6014: th-cam.com/video/qZ1lo_y73qw/w-d-xo.html
Dude… this shit is GOLDEN. Wow. Can’t speak highly enough about the information in this video. And such great delivery and communication with everything . Well done, man, well done. Thank you
Thanks man! Glad you found it helpful.
Hey I have a 5.3 WITH a cam and a 750 carb and he keeps on flooding and plugs out
@@jameswalz952 That could be a lot of things. I'l help if I can. Can you email me some details at service@scramspeed.com?
at 6:20, you mention: "at part throttle, as load increases you add timing"....shouldn't it be: at part throttle, as load DECREASES you add timing ?
Yes, you are correct. Oops. I'll see what I can do about adding a correction. Thanks for pointing that out.
Mine always idles at around 900-1000 rpm’s. Even when I adjust the idle screw it will idle high again after driving it around for a while. Sometimes it will diesel when I turn it off as well?
You should check for a bent throttle shaft right away. With the return springs removed, and car NOT running. (It is helpful to remove the carb so you can see the throttle plates.) Move the linkage arm through it's range of travel a couple of times and let it return naturally. Then see if the throttle arm needs to still be moved to close fully. Repeat this a couple times. If so, you likely have a bent throttle shaft. This can be caused by having the throttle cable being too short, and overpull at wide open throttle, tweaking the shaft. This is an extremely dangerous condition as it can lead to the carburetor hanging open under throttle.
That would explain the sometimes dieseling because it's allowing more air into the engine as it spins down. The carburetor always flows fuel a little on shut-down (unlike fuel injection). There's no spark with the ignition off, but fuel+air+hot is where dieseling comes from.
If that's the case you should at a minimum replace the throttle plate immediately.
It might also be that you've got your idle mix too rich, so you have to give it extra idle speed to run at idle. Hope this helps.
Great explanation. I need to double check some of my 6014 settings I think
fuel droplet is bigger on carb takes longer to burn which requires more timing
That's an interesting theory, and I am not saying you're wrong, but its also interesting that other Chevy, Ford and Mopar V8s want the same amount of timing whether they are port injected or carbureted.
How dependable are the MSD ignition box is it dependable for everyday use
Mine has been in my car for almost 8 years without missing a trick. Kyle, one of the owners had a 6014 in an LS powered '70 Cougar with which he completed Drag Week, and the Hot Rod Power Tour, drove on nice days and did road racing and autocross events. We've not had reported failures on a single one of the boxes we've installed. I'd say they're pretty reliable.
for just street driving what should my timing be its a LS 6.0 bored 30 over 650 holy carb 585 lift duration 228 intake 230 exhaust 6014 msd box 317 heads with bigger valve springs and up graded rockers 25 to 2700 stall converter with long tube headers i have the box set on truck ho and if i try and do a burn out at about 3000 to 4000 rpm it falls flat on its face i tried tuning the carb and still if you can point me in the right spot i would appreciate it.
That sounds like an intermediate circuit problem on the carb (squirter/pump cam). you powerbrake it up to 3000 and put it to the floor and it falls on its face?
You're probably going to end up somewhere around 30 degrees of timing, but there's no substitute for using the method outlined in the video and finding out what yours actually wants.
I have a question. Love your channel!! First my husband has a street truck 5.3 LS carb. We have the msd box 6014. It is downloaded. When I pull up the MSD View I'm not seeing all of the A-F icons all usable. We are trying to set the ignition timing. He is using custom 1 and we have the ignition timing set on the app. I can't get it to go into the MSD box. Not sure what we are not doing correctly. If you could help it would be greatly appreciated.
7/10/2024
Can you give us a call at the shop? 217.590.0128
Thanks!
Great info. What would be a good starting point to set the timing curve for a stock 5.3 with a Holley 650 double pumper.
I really recommend using the procedure outlined in the video at about 3:15. They usually end up in the thirties range, but its better to know what your particular combination wants. They're not all the same by any means.
Getting ready to put a carb on a stock 2009 6.0, in a 84 Regal, so any info on this setup would be great! Thanks! also would like to spray it with a small shot of NOS, any info on that would also be greatly appreciated.
I do cover the functionality of the timing retard for the nitrous in the previous video, and the best way to get your timing baseline in in this video. If you need more help, please give us a call at the shop 217.590.0128, ask for Steve.
@@Scramspeed Thank you!
Great video. Keep them coming and thank you
Thanks! We've got a lot in store for this year.
How’d you change the temperature unit from Celsius to Fahrenheit.
In the "View" menu at the top of the screen, under the listing for "Units", you can switch between Metric and Imperial.
This is great! Thanks for explaining this stuff . I have an 01 5.7LS1 with patriot 243 ported heads, 228R cam ,1-7/8" headers. Preformer rmp I take and a QF 750 race carb. I'm wondering what you think a good starting point for degrees at idle, and what point would you start ramping up your timing. I'm running 28° total starting @1300rpm right now. Car runs ok but does diesel a bit when I shut it down on warmer days. I realize all motors are different. Just looking for your thoughts as I don't have a track or dyno shop nearby.
The ignition timing isn't likely itself to be the direct source of the problem, as there is no ignition activity after you shut the car off. A carburetor will still flow fuel on engine shutdown because the engine is still pulling fuel through it as it spins down. If the throttle blades are open to let enough air in, and if there's a secondary ignition source, carbon, a hot or too hot heat range spark plug, etc, it can diesel.
I do not run that much ignition timing in any of my carbureted stuff. Most often it's 15*. You can run high timing to alleviate an overly rich condition, but you're better off adjusting the carb properly.
On that carb, I would start with 15* to 1500, idle mixture screws 3/4 of one turn out from bottom, and adjust idle speed to where it needs to be when there's heat in the engine. Important: Check plugs, if black use new ones to set idle.
Best of luck!
I’m in the same boat I’ll take all the information I can can’t wait for the next video
Great video. I have a suggestion that i think would be extremely popular; tuning a carbed LS cradle to grave using 6014.
Slap a untuned 750 dp on and start the process. Show default idle timing to tune carb, show different changes and tuning tips used for getting your idle set, work into testing and settings used for first drive etc.
I have never seen any video's breaking down all the small things that most of us kill ourselves researching as garage/weekend builders. It would be a carb ls learning adventure
Its funny you should mention that...that's what we're working on right now!
@@Scramspeedit's a great idea that no one has ever done. Good luck!
It's not as easy as it first appears. We may have bitten off too much but we're going to give it out best shot.
@Scramspeed I bet. Possibly break it into sections like first start. Intial carb tune, fist drive etc. Might not be so overwhelming that way and allow more time for different segments
Video gold brotha I’m always learning from your vids, thanks 👊🏻
Thanks man! We'll try to keep it up!
Love the content, please keep em coming!
I am on my 2nd Carb'd LS, 1st was a LY5 Cammed that went bang.."my fault". Now im onto LQ4 cammed. Been using ProForms 750 Street, I've been having good luck with it so far. I wish i had the 6014, im currently running 6012. -using gen4 crank of course* The additional features on the 6014 are impressive over my 6012.
Glad its helping! That is a solid carb choice for that engine.
We are working on more. If you ever do decide you'd like to upgrade, we'd be happy to help!
@@Scramspeed do you have a preferred plug you like to use on these carb setups?
I was on my laptop with the software, for some reason the tabs at the top to send the information aren't lit up to do so..any idea?
Sounds like you don't have a connection to the box. Try a different USB port on your computer. The box uses a virtual serial port, and that is usually directly tied to a specific USB port on the computer. Sometimes it changes with Microsoft update....
They like more timing because of the cooling effect of the carb
That's definitely one of the theories we've heard. The counterargument being that other V8 engines don't have dissimilar timing from port injection when carbureted. Then that usually devolves into discussions about IATs because of coolant passages in the conventional intakes and such and such. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know if anyone has tested it.
We had a fellow submit a question on our Contact Us page about the 6014 videos, but he left us the wrong email address! We'd love to help you. Please try again!
Awesome description
Where can I get the software?
Go here: www.holley.com/support/ignition/
It is the 5th item down or so, called MSD View Software.
documents.holley.com/msdview-4.5.8.exe
Do they have a version for apple ?
@@forged_billions2 No they don't. If you must use it with Apple you would have to run a VM.
@@Scramspeed ok 👍🏾
Appreciate you Sir…🇺🇸🦅
Thanks! I'm still at it. More to come soon.
Man thanks for sharing!
Hope it helps you!
Do you have to use a tach adapter with the MSD 6014?
No, the grey wire on the MSD 6014 attaches to the conventional tach input wire on an Autometer or similar tach.
@@Scramspeed then my tach must be going back :/ I’m a few hundred off what the data logger shows as the correct rpm. Had the shift light on the tach at 6800 and the data logger showed 7400!
@@2manyhobbiezz Could be. Id trust the box over the tach. 6014 gets that number from the crank sensor. If it had the RPMS wrong, the car probably wouldn't run. Before you buy a tach, put a camera in the car to see if you can tell what's going on.
@@Scramspeed it repeated three passes in a row so it’s gotta be the tach. Guess I’ll spend the $ and get an auto meter :)
just picked up a 55 chevy with a ls and a msd box and I am new to this and this video helps me understand it a bit more.
I am staring to install it in the car soon so i may contact you if I run into any issues.....thanks again
Awesome! Good luck with the project let us know if we can help.
My carb backfires when I try to start it im thinking bout adding or lowering the timing for start up
@@forged_billions2 my understanding is that cranking timing is fixed at 15*. I usually have my 500-1000 there as well.
I would look for a vacuum leak, make sure coil packs are plugged in correct sides, and be certain idle mixture screws are opened properly
@@Scramspeed ok thanks
@@Scramspeed I got it fixed. I grounded box straight to the battery and adjusted idle air screws
Now it runs like a beast , thanks again
@@forged_billions2 glad to hear it!!
Think they need a better map diagram, it goes from like 100 to 200 so on . Can’t really get a accurate ready unless your watching in real time . Unless there is a way I have t figured out yet
I use the logger. Drive+log, check data, make adjustement, repeat. Other than that I don't have any special advice. Its remedial compared to an EFI system, but it works well enough for most folks.
@@Scramspeed yeah it is decent, I have been using it for about a year . That was my only fault , other than that is a very easy to use set up . These videos help out a lot when you are new at something . Great lesson , thanks for reply
Im about to do a nitrous shot on my setup. 6014 ls1 750 hp carb I plan on a 150 shot. This is going off of info i have gathered on the internet, lol. Ngk 7 heat range plug, plan on pull 10° just to be safe from 3k on. Its in a 84 el camino. I have 29° total in it. Has 2.73 gear and a th400. Runs 12.2 at 117 now. Im going through traps in 2nd gear. I plan on running the 150 right after i shift to 2nd so i don't break everything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I'll just say, your car is extremely fast for a 2.73 NA LS1! Definitely needs more gear. I would address that before doing anything else. My calc (not accounting for converter slip) is that you're hitting the trap at 5500 in second gear. A 3.73 gear is going to deliver more much performance than 150 shot at this point, especially if you're only spraying at half track.
If I understand correctly, you haven't sprayed it yet, you currently have 29* total timing, and you're looking at spraying a 150 shot and pulling 10* with an NGK 7 heat range plug. I'm assuming pump gas. The 29* timing is likely to be conservative for your engine to start with. Pulling 10* is pretty extreme for a 150 shot and will hurt performance. If it were mine (and its not!), I would pull 2* on 150, click it off in the traps and read the plugs. I expect you will find that it would like more timing and that it will be fat (most factory nitrous kits are). But again, you're going to be way ahead with less risk to put a gear in the car. Hope this helps.
@Scramspeed thanks helps a lot. I have been gathering parts for a 3.73 build. I already got Moser axles. I didn't build the ls1. I bought it second hand. It was out of a 02 z28. Has lingenfelter gt 12 cam and ported 799 heads. I put a carburetor on it and crammed it in my el camino. I was surprised how fast it is. Thanks for your input. Look forward to learning more from you guys.
@@justinadams1360 An LS1 is a pretty amazing thing! Good luck with it this year.
@@Scramspeed thank you. Looking forward to it
Is there a rev limiter in the box?
Yes. The details on where it is and how to set it are pretty close to the beginning of our first video on the 6014:
th-cam.com/video/qZ1lo_y73qw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks.