My updated review of Deimos: th-cam.com/video/E5r88ZkkIzg/w-d-xo.html This took SO LONG to edit and make, please do like and share this if you enjoyed! Let me know if you want to see more longer videos like this in the future and as always thanks for your support
I also think you misses out on the nerfs to weapons,warframe and general player power around that time example range damage fall off, walls now block abilities and weapons. Also don't forget about all the railjack stuff that didn't make it into the game
Railjack is bugged as hell too especially the easiest mission. It's like doing exterminate but spawners don't work. Sanctuaroum is bugged to but I think it's server overload. They will not fix that these problems ar from the start.
The argument of DE "coming to the rescue" and fixing exploit bugs instead of fixing the issue by shortening the farm is a messy, incomplete one. The only thing that wouldn't count as an "issue that needs to be fixed/exploited past" by the community is a farm that takes less than 1 minute, or something that's a one time mission. Every form of sustainable gameplay form shouldn't be automatically considered an issue. Now some people demand things to be more fun while lasting longer and staying fun the whole time, but that's easier said than done, especially for a free game with tight schedules.
the necramechs were the first time i looked up how to farm something and said "absolutely not." I drove doordash for a couple hours and bought it that night. Deimos was the beginning of the end for me when I realized I would rather work to buy something in a game than grind for it. Work was probably faster and more enjoyable too
The grind for them is actually pretty easy, easier than many Warframes; more or less on par with a Lich/Sister. I got the Bonewidow the other day and still have enough crap left over to build another voidrig (I won't, though). Many of the weapons and mods from Deimos, however, are in the "lol, lmao" territory for me because the bounties just don't drop them.
The whole point of a free game is for you to find it easier to buy something. Otherwise, the company would go bankrupt. And in this case, Necramechs are made extremely cheap for a reason. And generating 10s of millions a year is nothing more than "paying your hundreds of skilled employees a fair wage." Companies don't get to keep their profits either, those go back to investors. You're clueless if you think a company can just shut off all revenue generation for a whole year and create no new content just to fix thousands of tiny bugs that are each experience by 0.1% of players.
@@VernulaUtUmbra they're pretty easy. (Still sucks that you can get weapons with a 19% stat though) They take about an hour and a half to do for a guarenteed weapon that's usually pretty good.
Go bankrupt?! Warframe isn't some Indie studio anymore. They generate 10s of millions every year now and they can't revamp old systems or bugs that have been there for years? The grind they put in the game is to make profit, not to keep the lights on.
Cetus Bounties are by far the hardest content in the game. As an MR 32, I can easily do level cap disruptions, no problem, but I can’t keep the defense progress above 50% with a gun to my head because no enemies spawn.
What you mean is you cant find them, just shoot down ships and looks for the massive energy beams that happen when a group of grineer get teleported in
Honestly, the perspective I have on all of this, as someone who started to finally really get into the game about a year ago, is that now that all of these open worlds are just.. part of the game, their flaws kinda slip away into being just one part of a massive whole. There's no build up to be let down by, there's just a bunch of environments to explore. All of the open world areas together add so much depth to the experience, when viewed outside the context of a content drop. Deimos is actually my favourite location in the game now, funny enough, I adore the aesthetic of it. Warframe is a game that gets criticized a lot for being too big for its own good, and the constant content creep being too much to handle, but in cases like this... it just feels like there's so much. Like there's such a defined difference between the game that I played years ago, with all of those little missions, and the game now, with all of these worlds to explore. I think that the worlds really add so much to the whole of the game
I came to say I agree took a 5 year break from warframe coming back has been such a treat the open worlds I really appreciate because it provides a change of pace that for me has kept the game from feeling super repetitive. My favorite addition so far has been the railjack missions, I love building my crew and going on these little spaceship adventures with them.
Anybody who has played this game for a while knows this is just Wasted Potential™️: The Official Video Game . By the time you realize the content is stale they are already hyping up the next piece of content that will ultimately be an unfinished mess.
@@live305 I've played this for 7 years and agree with op on this. Potential is just a hypothetical subjective high standard where you just lamenting over what it could be. You'll find the game more pleasant if you don't get hung up on such thing. And I know what it's like, too. We all had that phrase when we are hopelessly hooked, that amazing feeling when experiencing second dream, and we've been chasing that high ever since. And we call that high: the potential. Then I learned that I'd be happier being a filthy casual.
@@HavenarcBlogspotJcK trust me its not even about having high standards. Even when you don't expect anything you're still disappointed. They will hype up things then release them in a completely unfinished state, and then instead of working on it they move on. Lunaro, Railjack, Conclave, Archwings, etc. They might be a little better now idk but it seems warframe still has the same problems as pointed out in this video. Not to mention anytime players find a way to make the content bearable they just nerf whatever meta tactic you were using. Even if you go to the forums it still the same old complaints lol. Me personally I just stopped playing even tho I did make a video about it years ago
The biggest problem with the open world have always been that they never go back and expand on it. Like they are filled with interesting locations we essentially never have interactions with. They don't add more types of bounties to the tables. Just nothing. Like they could so many things. They could make location specific bounties. Like capture the central maintenance base, and then steal a coildrive, attach a bomb to it and drive it to the spaceport. Meanwhile you'll get stopped at checkpoints, where you can either try to stay undetected, or just kill all the corpus. Or help getting Solaris off world by entering the spaceport, clearing the way for the Solaris so they can get to the ship, and hack into a console allowing them to fly off world. Then with the temple of profit we have no idea what it even is despite there being loads of interesting things. I can also spot so many things around the Vallis that are clearly the designed to have a mission around them but they don't have 1. But these kinds of things would make bounties so much more fun to play than doing the exact same thing over and over again but in rotating places. But it's not just the Vallis, the Plains and Deimos the same story. Then there's the cycles... DE themselves said that the nights in the Plains were supposed to be dangerous but they aren't asside from the Eidolons that you can just ignore. I have recorded footage of Excalibur with no mods on literally just walking from 1 side to yhe other at night and I could easily do that with no problems. Yeah the Vomvalysts took my shields down a couple of times but as soon as you just keep walking and ignoring them, they will ho back going about their business. Like why are there not more different types of Eidolons really dangerous ones, or special type of Grineer that are meant to deal with Eidolon threats. Or actually interodice yhe flying Eidolons with a piece of wallmeat as a face they promised a whole ago and teased with the Revanant quest. According to DE themselves the day was supposed to be for everyone while the night was supposed to be a time for the experienced players but it doesn't feel that way. And with the cycle changes on Deimos and the Vallis, I don't feel any difference at all.
I'm also a bit disappointed about the fact that they scrapped having to manuevre your Railjack through all the Infested mass before entering Deimos like Steve teased us with when he first talked about an Infested open world.
i been dreaming about that complex in regard to missions since the first year playing the game ,if you still want complexity you might find that on DRG tho
My biggest complaint about that is the lack of interactivity. I'm an artist, I am no longer impressed by a game's graphics alone. If your game can't integrate liveliness with the pretty graphics, I don't care, because I've been around in the professional realm long enough that that's not a sell anymore. I can respect the artistry of the designs, but if it's not all together, I'd rather just look at the art book.
thats by far not the biggest problem with open worlds the biggest problem with open worlds is that they ruin the gameplay flow, which in turn ruins the grind
@@maxieprimo2758 my vibe kill was when they revealed that warframes are really controlled by creepy kids inside of your ship. They went from mysterious killing machines to dumb anime kids. That was the end of warframe for me. I abhor the lore of this game. Total waste if you ask me.
@@moonasha I feel you man. I thought the second dream was pretty dope when the funny anime kids were still mysterious at least, but it really has lost its luster by now.
They make too many far reaching goals and due to the free to play model they are forced to keep pumping out content, not going back to polish older content. Eventually things are simply abandoned straight up. This will NEVER change due to how the game is structured as a business model.
@@zachb1706 They will polish one thing and break other things... I quit the game when Deimos was released (It was a buggy mess as well) and for some reason some Arbitration missions and Eidolon hunting became too buggy even tho they added nothing on it... They just s*ck in optimization
i think its because DE is scared of the players getting through new content too fast so we wont get bored, so most of these things are to make us keep playing as much as possible
This is their biggest mistake, when games force you to do things you do not like and frustrate their players, that is what will stick with them so most will eventually quit and they're incredibly unlikely to come back when their head is filled with menories of stress and frustration doing all the miserable grinds they got forced into.
Honestly DE and any other F2P game dev use that excuse. The thing is making the player feel frustrated over slow advancement so they swipe the card. I know DE is less bad than others but it's still the same tactic.
@@technoultimategaming2999 It is absolutely a choice, though. Even when talking about New War, you need only rank 3 from each open world, which is far less time than the rest of the requirements. And other than New War, you don't need to touch them at all.
Personally, I kind of wish they’d continued expanding Cetus. Turning it more into the Earth open map rather than a single town. Iron Wake would have just been a small area added to this. You’d be able to travel to new towns and meet new people with different things for you to do. Maybe even have united these different factions to have your back in the story. A lot of missed opportunities in Warframe tbh.
Exactly. I'd absolutely love it if there were open world "side quests", as in more interaction options with the actual people living there. That would easily increase the amount of time players stay on to play in those locations instead of endlessly grinding for a one part of a weapon or frame. Also I'm wondering if it's possible to change the 4 max player count in open world maps to a number slightly higher (tons of balancing and prolly server changes would be needed), so they won't have to worry about players being too diluted.
@@hollanderson Maybe even have said players split into groups for two or more or so different quests. Group A of 4 have to secure a place while group B of 4 need to help and/or bring back supplies.
@@hollanderson that sounds great. I'm a total sucker for the whole "superman helps with everyday problems" style of mission. I kinda love running errands for the common folk.
I think that Deimos was something of an improvement, you could dedicate an entire session to just farm mother tokens and stack a whole bunch of them (especially in steel path) while also getting resources and stacking them up for father, essentially getting enough tokens to cap your standing for the next few days if you did't feel like spending an entire week on Deimos. The only real problem were the other family tokens to level up the syndicate (especially son's, fuck him) but otherwise it wasn't as bad as the other two, where once you reached the daily cap you might as well leave because there really wasn't anything meaningful to do other than bounties.
I like that they tried something new, but I didn't like the token system one bit. Completely devalued any other activity when you could just stack up bounty standing at 10k a bounty
@@zachb1706 I agree with the fact that it sidelined a lot of content. If i remember correctly, one of the best ways to get standing aside from bounties came from mining. But at the same time, by the time deimos came around, i was a bit tired of mining, fishing and preservation so i don't really mind it was sidelined in favor of bounties xd
Deimos was classic DE we have the solution to a problem, but we didn't fine tune the solution. A token system is smart. It lets DE have the standing caps that encourages players to play daily. But it also lets players farm without limit. Buuuut. DE didn't take feedback on token drop rates, cost of items, token xp, and general balance to make the token system satisfying. If they did(or do eventually) tokens would be an objective improvement to their open world formula that should be added to the other worlds.
I think the design issues go beyond the open world. I was expecting the design loop to look like ouroboros, a game that constantly cycled new content into its larger design so that everything grew from new content. Its the opposite. Everything they make tapers off into nothing, nothing connects back into itself. Which means that anything they make lasts about a week if that and then everyone is sitting waiting for more.
@@viniciuscunha327 I don't want to blame Steve, but I kind of blame Steve. He was the idea-man at the company entirely driven by his latest obsession. He thought spaceship combat is cool, so we got Railjack hammered into the game. He thought the Mordor games' nemesis system was cool, so it was shoehorned into the Lich/Sister system. He thought slow, lumbering mechs a la WH40k's Dreadnoughts were cool, so he pushed the necramechs. It all culminated with him deciding that an open world where all our warframes, mobility, and the weapons we love are taken away from us, replaced with a souls-lite melee combat system (and a horse) would not only be the coolest thing ever, but also the perfect introduction for new players, so we've got Duviri (even though he left the team to make his own game by the time it was finished). It's kind of telling that after he left, all the newly released Frames had extremely fun, coherent, and powerful kits, all the new content focused on Warframes, we got a whole lot of actually impressive and well-received reworks, and most players seem to agree that Warframe is probably in the best state it's ever been right now.
Deimos is actually the least tedious i think, i can just save up a bunch of tokens by grinding an endless bounty and turn in enough to hit my cap for the day, come back tomorrow and turn in more without having to grind more. Thats exactly what i did too. I also found the iso vaults to be fun. I like the rewards.
I remember the difficulty scaling being pretty awful. You went from the enemies not even tickling you to getting one shot by a speck of dust falling on you.
8:25 Man I gotta say, remembering seeing the open world reveal and that reaction live Brings a tear to my eye. Simpler times, I just enjoyed the game for what it was. I feel like theres a lot of wasted potential and wish they focused on some different things.
This wasn't touched on in the video but another point in the "feels like an island" was that alongside Fortuna, Railjack was announced, as the way we will connect to all of these islands and eventually star chart 4.0 (3.0? It's been too long since I played the game). Alongside all the hype towards the reveal of these open worlds, DE had a grand plan but well, that hasn't happened yet and is most likely forgotten in favour of keeping players busy with more islands.
I love how the standing grind doesn't even make sense storywise, like on Deimos, you avert disaster, save everyone by throwing yourself in the fray in introduction quest, then it's "yeah sorry bro you still have zero standing with us despite everything you did, better start grinding to prove your worth" lol
I really like this type of video essay/retrospective. From what I've seen so far 20 mins in this video is really detailed and captivating. Hope to see more of this where you can go into detail about the history of certain activities such as eidolon hunts and profit taker and how it effected the community. I feel like as a newish player I don't fully understand what players felt at the time and the curiosity kind carves away at me. Hope to see more 👍👍👍
I am so glad you enjoy this type of content! I'm still experimenting a bit but I am so excited to make more in depth detailed videos about the history of activities and the game!
@@NovaUmbral Kuva liches and Sister of Parvos's would be a decent start I believe. From what I've heard it was a mess on release and took a year to fix up some what. That's a good amount of time to look through if you even need a idea or start.
The problem with going into too much detail is that most details are completely made up... Especially on TH-cam content. For example, raids being removed because Eidolons were introduced... That's just false, but to fill the gap for an explanation, it was put in this video. The real reason is that raids were not worth working on because they kept breaking after every update and the dev team was too small to ignore that much work, especially since extremely few people played raids. If DE had started a paid option that allowed players to play raids, they could have survived, but since the game is free, they were removed. Other inaccuracies include the "fix family issues" description of Deimos lore, representing Deimos as something that was supposed to improve the open world formula and tie everything together when it was a last minute replacement for New War because of the pandemic, Deimos being the most "tedious" while actually having the most ways to speed up grind, skipping the fact that number of bounty options doubled with Deimos Arcana, lying about what Helminth was "promised" to be, etc
Grinding conservation is a pain, yes. But it is worth noting that Cambion Drift introduced ambient animal spawns, meaning you can incidentally farm animals as they spawn while doing something else instead of having to do the dedicated minigame. This has since been ported to the Plains and Vallis, and it makes tag collection a lot smoother in all locations. The minigame is now only for the rare tiers of animal, not a requirement to get any animals at all. I would love to see at least a Mineral Exchange though, or some sort of resource cross-pollination. Cetus vendors seeing Deimos fish...
That would be fun and a great way to bring darvo into the mix for funnies, you should be able to trade like the debt bonds and Deimos ppl. That way there's a point to having high value trades that'll technically be biased to you, so you can have a timed resource trader plus a small bonus given as "trade pricing" Ofc that's if they wanna be nice. Knowing DE if they ever make an exchange system it would be like the ducats bs where you trade in hours of grinded garbage to make the low tier stuff at least have a purpose and trade it for higher tier things.
@@lanoche They used to be just ambient wildlife you could kill for their drops. Fortuna added actual Conservation, tranquillizing etc. which was then backported into Plains after that. Mergoos, the different variants of Condrocs/Kuaka and Vasca Kavats were all later additions to the Plains animal roster. Having said that I'm not sure they ever turned *off* the Kuaka and Condroc spawns, so you do have a point that ambient spawns existed before Deimos. Deimos however, added the ability for all conservation targets to spawn, essentially skipping the tracking and call phase and spawning the wild animal nearby with a sound cue. This was then added to Fortuna first and then Plains (I think), allowing all conservation animals to randomly spawn without having to participate in the track and call minigame. This Weird and Obscure fact is also why out of all conservation animals Condrocs and Kuaka are the only ones to have actual drops.
You're summary at the end really does it for me. I'm ok with DE making mistakes and not getting things right the first or even second time around, I do need them to learn from their mistakes though. That's the important part.
I realize this comment is a year old but in the "jade shadows" update you give birth to a baby warframe in a quick time event. As a MR 29 player and a person from the early alphas, total vibe kill.
15:01 Ah yes cetus wisps. I'll never understand why they were so hard to find while also spawning at night most of the time. Making them harder to see. And the fact you needed so many of them also felt like a mind boggling decision. Overall, I might have stuck with the game for a little longer instead of quitting if cetus wisps and other hard to grind items like them were never added in the first place. It felt a lot like the old "Create the problem sell the solution" mentality since I'm pretty sure you could trade the wisps with other players or buy them directly off the market with platinum.
I had convinced a few friends to play this game with me and we were having a blast going through the star chart and learning how to mod and what weapons / warframes were good for certain missions. Then Plains of Eidolon happened... we tried at first to embrace it but it was such a game breaking change and slog I actually stopped playing Warframe for a couple of years. Coming back to try Fortuna did not help either. It would take me another year to finally get to rank5 with Fortuna. During this time I managed to level up to Rank3 with the Quills to make the 123 Amp. Hated every moment of it, felt like the core game had been abandoned. I would take another long break then come back after railjack had been launched then fixed. Deimos was to me the easiest and less grindy of the 3 in which I didn't find every moment a chore (maybe they had just finally broken me and now grind is part of my being). Been playing again ever since but boy does every story quest and addition feel like it's own lil island of a game not tying in any core game play (you know the damn name sake, Warframes!)
Open worlds, railjack, archwing, operator, kdrive, a myriad of ability-immune/-nullifying enemies, Kahl, necramech, Orphix, the list keeps growing. It doesn't just feel like they've abandoned the core gameplay, they actually have (or maybe even the game itself with Soulframe). The only things building upon it in recent times have been Helminth, archon shards and the addition of shield gating. Which is nice, but when you're at the point where you have to work with those, you probably don't have much of the content where they're relevant left to do. I find myself wondering, do DE secretly wish they never made this game?
You said it. Biggest problem is they just abandoned core gameplay, and it keeps getting worse because the power creep is just insane. I could do 1 hr solo Mot runs with Excalibur in 2017 without using arcanes or any other broken crap, now a challenge like that would be a complete joke because if how stupidly strong the frames are
Warframe had been my main game for a year when Plains came out. I quit within a month. Every once in a while I click on a warframe video, see one of my favorite frames or rocking a Corinth, and start to drool a bit. Then I stop and think, "What's actually here for you?" Nothing. The frames I loved suck in an open world, the guns I loved suck in an open world. 3 separate dead end grinds, each with their own convoluted systems. This is the zombified corpse of the game I loved. It's painful to see where the game has gone, but it vindicates my decision to jump ship. I'm better off without Warframe.
@@advicepirate8673 It's somewhat interesting hearing a recount like this because, myself, personally, enjoyed a lot of the open world stuff, but especially the fishing, which, I know, seems kind of weird. I would just grab Ivara, set up some ziplines, and run around over the pools, catching countless fish over the 30 minute period with little annoyance while listening to a podcast or something, and then usually sell them for a pretty good price. But I also enjoyed Zephyr, who naturally isn't as dependent on archwings, and used sniper rifle a lot to do things like click on dropships. The reason I more haven't come back to it is because I'm just not as interested in the grind.
I swore off touching Plains as much as I could until I either HAD to or something new there made me WANT to go there and make progress. The initial wonder wore off quickly for me and I found myself getting tired of the stuff available for you to do there, never mind how at the time things like Archwing Launchers were limited-use consumables, making travel lengthy too. I think one of the things that turned me off about the open-world systems in general is the large amount of resources that are exclusive to the place you get them in. It makes sense to have goods require stuff you get there sure, but it got tiresome to have to do mostly the same activities to collect a large amount of resources to progress standing and get what you want three times over. I did this stuff at my own long, lazy pace, but even then that was just tiring.
I Really hope Duviri both does well, and plays well. Since I found the game back in the Fortuna Launch, it has been my for life game, an endless bucket of fun that keeps on giving whenever I go to play it, it's certainly the game I spent most of my gaming hours on, and It is the game I want to play well into my future. But there's always those moments where I come to think "Well this could be better" or "That could be different", I used to scowl at the Idea of "End Game", but as I come close to reaching the maximum content, things start to become stale. I started longing for systems and missions that are fun and reward me from the time invested, I'm still confused with the direction I would like DE to take the game, but I do hope that they find their path, would be a shame to see Warframe slowly starving from content until it bleeds it's playerbase. I hope Duviri does well, I want to see the game grow and thrive, I'm always pretty happy seeing new Tenno through the System, and I would love to see new strides in technology and gameplay. Hope we go to Tau at some point, would be cool to have some twists and Railjack exploration, wich is a gamemode I find sooo fun to play around. But bah, that's it. Great video my guy, it teached me a lot of stuff I did not know about the start of the game, be sure to keep the amazing content, hydrate yourself.
I would rather take a new rep grind semi-empty open world then Drifter only rouge like content island . I just don't have much hope for it , I didn't like Kahl missions and I doubt I like Duviri .
Honestly, after Duviri comes, if I recall properly, that would be all that they've promised up to this point, right? Where will they go afterwards? Just kinda an interesting thought. Will they fully invest into expanding and fixing the content they have, or will they rush forwards with new ideas?
@@TimesOldRoman I personally hope we get a year of updates like Lua's Prey that was just launched recently. Little lore tidbit, new simple gameplay mode, new frame.
As an MR15 getting back into the game after a huge break, farming Zariman syndicates feels a chore even though their arcanes and blueprints seem overpowered. That and all the Prime frames I gotta farm lmao
those guns will destroy everything once you get the final upgrade on them. zariman really do be dumb as shit sometimes. i'm working on the whole voruna/conjunction survival thing and i'm doing the level 180-200 steel path node because it gives the most plasma and the shotgun just kills everything and is just far stronger than any other gun i have. I'm not even running some kind of crazy buff frame like chroma, i'm just an oberon who doesn't want to die.
The thing that ticks me off, is that whatever you do in open world is ultimately inconsequential. What's the point of raiding a grineer base if the enemies are just going to respawn. Could have just done an exterminate mission at that point and at least cracked some relics.
20:53 Fortuna's Intro always chills the shit out of me. The song is grim, scary and beautiful. I just loved it. ❤ And the visuals... and timing... oh wow. 😍
coming from someone with 5000+ hours into ESO, the stories are really predictable and formulaic post-elsweyr and most of the rewards are really not worth anything so i wouldn't use it as a good example. you're better off farming dungeon or trial sets on normal difficulty, most of which can be easily pugged.
This was such an amazing discussion! I joined warframe right after the announcement of Plains of Eidolon. I grinded hard to be ready for the Eidolon fight (I wasn’t). I kept grinding the Eidolons till my first 6x3 in every role… but after a few thousand hydro captures… it was time to move on. Profit Taker was a very cool fight. And I’m anxious for the 3rd spider… if that ever comes. Now I’ll watch your other videos. Can’t wait to see your discussion about railjack 😂
@@yungoldman2823 we can only dream… it’s been like this from the very beginning… and it’s the only thing that kept us going… but you are probably right 😔
I just realized I stopped playing warframe for a few years around the time Deimos came out. I was too young at the time to understand why I was losing interest, but I think this video cleared it up for me. I'm back now trying to catch up lol. I'm mainly enjoying the game when I'm not doing open world stuff
Personally, I mined for Fortuna standing because I felt it was less annoying than bounties. I enjoyed the open worlds generally, but how we start from scratch each time is annoying. Especially when bulk mining or fishing is needed. Also I despise how much conservation I had to do to up the ranks, get helminth, and my panzer.
Keep in mind although this video can sound like it is hating on the game from middle to end it ISNT. if youve played even less than 100 hours, you understand this player would need to have played the game enough that he is logically at LEAST fond of the game because to know what he knows about the game you have played the shit out of it. The issues he has come from wanting the game to see its full potential maximized for that benefits us, the developers and publisher and makes future titles like SOULFRAME worth looking forward to. 👍
this kinda mad that the namar update destroyed the visuls of fortuna : from cozy winter to slightly snowy plains 2.0 fr it feels like fortuna lost their personalty
I think the mainproblem at Warframe is: 1.: There are only "Kill things" Quests (Yes capture is there too but mainly you still kill everything still only....). There is not eal varety. And 2.:the Poblem of every MMO: Your tasks have no mpace or consequence to the world.
Agree with the retrospective on cetus and fortuna(I would've been way more harsh with fortuna). But with deimos? Holy shit you absolutely missed the nail dude. Deimos was an immense step up. It had so many very evident upgrades over the typical open world formula. The token system was great because it meant that you could essentially stockpile rep for days that you felt like you just didn't wanna play. The bounties for deimos offered rewards in amounts that actually MATTERED. The deimos bounties were also faster. Not by much but still faster. Then we have the rankup requirements. It wasn't like fortuna where you had to grind for a CHANCE at getting what you need. You just spent a set amount of time to get grandmother tokens for the seriglass shard, or for whatever tokens you needed from the family members. And the hunting and fishing. Hunting on deimos was mega easy. There's only 1 animal that's a pain in the ass to catch and you can straight up just ignore it. You could also use the tranq rifle from fortuna. And fishing in deimos was great because actually CATCHING the fish was the dumbest easy thing ever. No stupid item requires to actually fucking see the fish, no. They just float around in the air. Didn't require any specific spear besides the starting deimos one. And while deimos didn't actually SHIP with a modular system, it didn't need to. The weapons you got from deimos were great. And to go on about necramechs, notice how nobody every really complains about having to use them. They complain about them not being allowed to be used in every mission type. To me, that means necramechs were a success. They're cool. They're fun. Deimos was a good open world. If the others were like deimos, I don't think people would complain. Edit: also I'm so damn miffed over your gross misinterpretion of the deimos questline. Deimos was about the tenno being re-acquainted with an old orokin family and putting aside your assumed differences in an effort to save the heart of deimos. Which was an integral power source for orokin-made synthetic lifeform functions. The reveal at the end was that grandmother was behind the attempt on the heart of deimos' integrity, in order to get the family working together again. Your character being called in was a side effect. So grandmother was basically like "hey help me with this" So the post-storyline story is that the family is helping you uncover the secrets of the moon and the void at large with the iso vaults, uncover their lost history and regain their memories, and cause them to bond over these efforts. All according to grandmother's plan.
As someone who played Waframe for about two months just a little ways after Eidolon had been released and not knowing about ANY of the fanfare or lore, I was super surprised when I suddenly came upon this entire planet that was completely different from the rest of the game. It was a very welcome surprise, and super cool... for about a month. I farmed to get Gara cause I thought she looked super cool, fun to play, and I'm a Naruto simp. By about the time I finally got all of her blueprints, I was already feeling the burnout from the Bounties described here, and I wasn't even doing them for the reputation levels. I just wanted a single character. I think that was what really clued me in that I liked the normal gameplay of Warframe, but I wasn't cut out for the level of grinding necessary and the repetition of whatever the plains were going to entail. I look back fondly on those two months, but knowing that the following open world expansions seemed to be more of the same is a welcome reassurance that I ducked out at the right point for me.
The fall started all the way back when they added Archwing imo. They added it and a handfull of missions and then proceeded to not touch it for years. A coming trend as we would see.
My biggest problem is with the New War. You have a story where the Narmor have taken the system. You catch the fade so hard you have to go into hiding. After you beat the story, you get told "oh well they are still in the system. You gotta clear them out." Which equates to the Khal missions and the hunts. You don't go to Cetus or Fortuna and see them fighting the Narmor. Or taking down their stuff. Or even play a mission where the tile set and enemies are Namor skinned. It could even be a flag if everyone has done that story quest the map gets that skin every now and then. I get that you don't want to ruin it for newer players. But if that's the case then why can I go do a low lvl mission and hop out into my operator? That's a pretty big spoiler. Warframe has and has always had the problem of: Every system feeling like it's own segmented thing. You don't ever see people from Fortuna helping out on Cetus or vice versa. Khal doesn't appear in a mission and ask for help.
I always thought "It would be cool for the Tusk/Terra units to fight with us against narmer" but no. They just... replace the spawns, and it's weird because as soon as the bounty ends, Narmer just... vanishes.
28:25 "The world was so much bigger [...] but it felt even more empty." I mean, duh. That's the problem with all open world games in my opinion. It's not about the size of the world, it's about how many cool things you can actually do in that space. Outer Wilds is a good example of a rather small world, but everything serves a purpose and there's no pointless filler. The anti-UbiSoft-game.
After watching the video throughly, I've come to the realization that.....WE NEED ANOTHER OPEN WORLD THAT INTRODUCES CARS SET IN THE MOON WITH A NEW DOUBLE OR NOTHING BOUNTY SYSTEM WHERE YOU CAN DOUBLE A BOUNTY TO GET EXTRA REWARDS BUT IF YOU DIE YOU GET NOTHING BUT A DEBT IN PLATINUM.
I made over a hundred thousand plat because of the plains and how nobody wanted to farm gems, but everybody wanted the arcanes. I just grabbed a booster and farmed a bunch of gems, once I had plat flowing I would just buy out anyone who sold cheaper than me and controlled the price of gems for months.
FYI, at tennocon, they were very specific how the helminth system worked. This is a huge miss on the video. Overall, I liked the editing process. However, I think a good way to move forward would be making a video of exactly what warframe could give us that would fix it in your mind. Comparing progression, systems and etc. from other games. Most people watching this are already warframe players and know much of what you're stating with their own opinions. I think the actual miss on deimos were the vaults. I thought these were gonna feel like fantasy mmo dungeons, and we'd need to bring support damage and tanks to survive. Plus, it's an option to go endlessly, implying you're going deeper
Warframe has a lot of issues, first one being the "loot". Its not a looter shooter, its a resource shooter. The melee combat needs a real rework, its a boring button mash. The open worlds were a poor execution, apart from the bosses there's nothing really interesting going on... and that's a shame. Nice vid, liked, subed, keep up the good work!
I am a Warframe GRAND MASTER FOUNDER. Been there since the beginning. *Today when I boot up the game I just stare at the starchart, the fifty new warframes, and dozen's of new currency's and TURN IT OFF* What the game needs imo is a 'session mode' where a group of friends can just boot up a game and have fun together regardless of their level or warframe or mods or weapons.
you can do that though? im not sure what would prevent you. just create a squad for your mates, pick a node and go wild. can also mess around by picking a random captura.
@@jannesrosenberg926 Amen, opening the game and just start doing endless survival or defense in the void. One of the few games where I liked the random matchup with other people. Because they hadn't added all those new gameplay 'islands', there was always a big change someone was already doing a void run when you planned to go in.
I used to play the raids everyday multiple times in the school bus. It was exciting to prep and grind to get just the perfect build and get those raids done right after reset. I mostly left Warframe a few weeks after only coming back for history quests. A lot of friends fully disappeared from my life. All because DE didn’t think raids were important and wanted to change how to get arcanes. I still miss those squads I used to be on raids with. 😢
I love using my Zaw! My first one is great! I made a second one which the parts combo wasn't as good, so I gave that one up and stuck with my first. Having the Arcane added that allows me to throw the Zaw is awesome and having it explode a bit upon contact when thrown is so nice! I did rename it to Zog. I thought "a 3 letter word starting with Z" like Zaw... why not Zog which was a good "bad guy" in an old Superman movie, so that's what I went with.
I think the other problem to is that many gamers have more time on their hands than they know what to do with. Griding is just part of their day to day, besides the open world not having enough, we also want too much and don't realize how much time we spend maxing out Warframes mods and weapons. So once you realize you can 1 to 3 tap everything, the fun will of course diminish for many, where in my case I recently came back to Warframe but still haven't gotten anywhere in the game, the open world would be nice to get to but I just cant stand the grind anymore. We as humans always want the next thing that's natural. Though when you spend all day playing games to the point you've made it to end waiting on content to come to you, I don't see that as a failure from the developer. That's that "grindset" that keeps players from enjoying games, instead of taking time off/or a break and finding something else to play/do. I'm a fan of always chasing content, being "first" is just temporary a title. On the other side of things open worlds are so hard to perform when you have only so many possibilities. You can build youre Warframe however you want but they're only limited to so many moves. You can Cross the map at lighting speed but you will always for the most get there in the same way. Even GTA's Open worlds can get boring in the right players hands its how you evolve on it. I believe Warframe's devs put in open worlds to save their own skins and keep the game going, but now has to cope with always having to expand, but when's the point of what else can we do that isn't the same as what we previously put out but also, the same stuff that other games are doing. Space Travel, Procedural worlds, raid bosses, tankier bosses with players its just :so much want over, what can be made. Hopefully someone knows what I'm trying to convey here but I hope Warframe a long and prosperous life their isn't many if any games like it on the market and you can see its trying to keep its identity.
I think where it all went wrong was when DE STOPPED doing new stuff and just started copy pasting the plains of eidolon with every new update, we got fortuna we got deimos and now we got duviri and its all just the same tho ill give them credit for duviri bc it is a bit different
Great video, but I need to say that DE never promised being able to put any ability on any warframe, from the moment it was shown on tennocon they said you could extract a predetermined ability to put on other frames
The Eidolons might have been buggy at launch (and there's still a few bugs right now), but let's not pretend like the raids didn't have endless issues alongside very low player engagement. I'd love to see a return of 8 player content EDIT TO ADD: The Fortuna intro will never not give me chills. Still one of my favorite things they've ever done in this game
For me the problem exist as part of the game structure. We load in complete our goals then abandon the world, our main reason to be part of these worlds is to complete the bounties. This is the Ubisoft activity structure that devalues the open world. Ingesting the prospect of just hunting fishing and mining feel more enjoyable as open world gameplay as they don’t fit in this activity structure. I think the best option would be to abandon the bounties, or swap them for the overmap missions, and focus of making the open world maps just exist as open world maps.
We are also forgetting that when open worlds started coming out regular game a content updates went from like 2-4 times a year to one time a year i stopped playing after plains i killed the eidolons and went "well that was cool" and didnt want to farm anything
The pursuit of efficiency is what killed most of it. No doubt they're grindy, not denying that. But look at things like the k-drives. People always say, "why do I wanna use that, when I can use itzal to just blink everywhere". You're not wrong. It's probably more efficient that way, but k-drives are fun. Fun at the cost of being less efficient. With all that said, the reason we keep finding ways to be efficient is because the game itself is forcing our hands to do so. With all the artificial gating, and endless grind loop. It's no wonder the player base keep finding ways to be efficient. And if things are given too easily, then it will lack value, and it will also mean players run out of things to "work" towards. I personally feel like adding a simple "pity system" to things that we need to grind for would make a world of difference. Each bounty mission we complete, should grant us with a certain kind of resource which in turn could be used to purchase the things on the bounty reward list. At least, the grind won't feel like an endless loop of time sink, with no glimmer of hope. At least with this, there'd be a minimum amount of runs we need to do, to earn the things we want. It would make doing bounty missions a whole lot more bearable tbh. Just knowing the fact that there's a realistic timeline in which the items could be obtained, will make things feel a whole lot better. As opposed to not knowing how many more billion bounties we need to run.
Problem with K-Drives is they just do what other methods already do, but worse. They have no real purpose on their own other than "fun". Gimmicks like that need a mechanic that they do better than any other method, otherwise it'll always be an irrelevant side gimmick, which isn't bad but expect 99% of players to just not use it lol
Bro, you just described the biggest issue I have with the game. I hate grind. I can accept grind, but only if it's within reasonable limits, and here it's anything but. I don't want to be efficient, I want to relax and have some fun, but where is the fun in unreasonable grind? It is just a game, for fuck's sake. I usually play it for a few days and the drop it for months, if not years. I've played it for a very long time, but I'm only MR10, which I got only few days ago. I feel conflicted on whether I should experience all of content and story for myself, or just watch it on YT and forget about the game altogether, since it seems to be better use of my time. The game is just no fun.
"the game will never tell you to stop playing" this is a bold faced lie. D:< the game tells you hourly: "You have been playing for over an hour, please don't forget to take a break."
Major problem with warframe isn't the open world, the grind or the tediousness of it all. It's the content islands, it's keeping the grind for just one thing that exists only in one place and once you obtain it you have no reason to go back at it again. How happy I actually was when the deimos kitgun parts were compatible with fortuna ones, or the AMPs with Cetus, how satisfying it felt that there's a bridge between content, that is not isolated. But it is a single one, the only one. Right now I literally have no real reason to go back to these open worlds unless I'm forced to.
This is a pretty good look into and a summary of all the open world content that we've had thus far. I would love to see more of the history of warframe done through this kind of video! I think while the Zariman is not an open world, it does fit into the same kind of expansive content that introduces a new faction, new weapons, and all that jazz. I think the Zariman is the best of this kind of content we have gotten thus far, and I dont think its due to the fact that its just limited to a new title set either (while that does help). The Zariman works so well because of it introducing a large amount of new mission types that are unique and interesting and rather fun to play imo too. On top of that, the fact that bounties are side objectives that are easily done on top of the regular game mode (and not just mobile defense done 5 times in a row) really help keep things simple and fresh at the same time. Im hoping that they one day can take what they did for the Zariman and apply it to the older open worlds. These wouldnt be 1 to 1 probably, but I think the Zariman shows they have a strong understand of what is both fun and engaging for a major faction.
Console player btw. Last time I played Fortuna (last time I tried getting into it lol I should try again) I still found a shit ton of bugs. I gave up after the fifth or more bug that locked me from finishing a bounty. This happened maybe one year ago now. To this day imo Fortuna is the worst open world ignoring the things good in a vacuum. I've seen the boss fight in vids and it does look fun. At least Deimos and all that is stuff I've been able to do without the frustration I felt in Fortuna. To be fair, like I said, I should try it again but ehhhhhh.
@@NovaUmbral Yeah it's just so frustrating and the bugs just put the final nail in the coffin whenever they happen. Like I said, I'll probably give it another go eventually but ugh. I hope that with Duviri they show they've learned their lesson from the past experiments. I don't have high expectations but I am definitely inhaling some hopium deep in me lol. A big redesign for past open worlds is definitely not gonna happen but at least Duviri could be the best from all the content islands if they learned. But if anything I'm more focused on their implementation of cross-play and cross-save. Only thing I'm truly excited about Duviri is the lore and story implications.
i have 2k+ hours on WF and i gotta say it keeps giving, the only thing that i can say is truly "bad" is that warframe or DE (the dev team) has no direction, i grinded so damn much but honestly everything past 200h played it felt off.
The necramech was an absolute ridiculous grind. I came back after year’s hiatus, last played when first open world came out. It took me a week to grind for it, non stop, and I still threw roughly 40 plate to speed up the process of getting it. You need rank 1 of both fortuna and Cetus syndicate to get material blueprints, which involves a few hours of mining and fishing. You need to do Venus railjack missions for isos, which means you need to build a railjack, which is a whole another grind. You need to run the operator pillars in Deimos to get other crafting materials and spend a decent amount of time farming caves and fishing Then you need to farm the vaults, which will take about a week of doing to get all the parts. I ended up buying one of them on the trade market cus I couldn’t get them all. It was awful, hours down the drain doing shit I didn’t want to do. Then there’s the other grinds, getting the Helminth for instance, you gotta grind to associate rank on Deimos, which means hours of hunting, fishing, mining, and vault runs. Then there’s the railjack, a long quest where you run to about 10 different missions and cough up crafting materials each time. All this to try to get to archon shards to complete the new world quest which was my ultimate endgame. I just wanted my warframe to be up to par in power levels with everyone else. It’s absolutely ridiculous how the game forces you to do arbitrary things in the open world just to progress the main story line. I’d normally buy it with plat, but the necramech was simply too high in cost 375 plat if I remember. Also ridiculous
Out of all the grind you're complaining about Deimos? The easiest syndicate to rank up hands down? Just stockpile tokens, it's not that hard. Sure the Necramech is an absolute pain to get, but a week? I guess you were really unlucky... but I don't believe some of it. Rank 1 is just 1 or 2 bounties, easy as hell. Cetus needs rank 2 if I remember correctly. What really takes forever is the damaged necramech parts, they do take forever. The Railjack also really isn't much of an issue. I spend an hour, 2 at best doing it. 75 Isos is also like 2 or 3 missions at best.
@@zacsolo1594 here’s the thing, it’s easy on paper, cus you probably accumulated and done all this stuff overtime. The grind is a lot more tedious if you’re new and trying to get to the new war quest as soon as possible. Everything is connected when trying to grind for the railjack and necramech and you quite literally have to have done all three open world instances on top of getting the right parts and materials
I didn't; I had never touched Fortuna or Cetus before starting the Necramech. I swear the Railjack wasn't that expensive, despite you speedrunning or not
When it comes to MMOs that go from instanced based quest, to the open world based gameplay formula I'm cautions of it because it feels like its rarely done right. you get a big pretty world with the occasional world boss and the daily quests to kill X amount of mobs in a field. it gets stale fast personally. and in the grand scheme of thing you'll have this big world but on a day to day basis only operate in a fraction of it because you just want to get your bounties done. Once you've seen it all, you've seen it...Yes it can be magical seeing a bunch of players in an open word fighting a big boss, i get the social aspect of it being an MMO at the end of the day. Personally i like instance based quests. get into a party with 4 friends and clear floors with random objectives and maybe a miniboss then on the final floor beat the main boss, collect loot and exp. its just a much more personal experience to me. especially when its set up so that the higher you climb the game gets more difficult but also more rewarding.
I came back and quit when this cane out I was already leaning and relearning the game on top of grinding After coming back this year and having to continue to get the wings to fly on the infested world, I don't regret taking a break.
This is a video that DE might need to look into, Warframe for me was at one point Funframe, then turned into Grindframe then ultimately into Boreframe. I have currently stopped playing this game until its next large update that will get me back into it for a few weeks then will bury it again most likely. Side Story: I am a support kind of player when it comes to most class based games and when i unlocked Trinity way way way way back in beta times, she was great, now shes a redundant and unnecessary frame. IMO, each update should have a consideration into remastering all frames, even if that frame was already remastered before. All frames need to exist flawlessly in any mission, not specific missions.
Last week I farmed the whole necramech (with the exception of the diagrams, that I somehow got it on the 6 month break that I took). I did that to do the new war quest and because I really was curious to see how bad it would be. What a mistake lmao The fucking grind to get all the damn components was something that I will always remember from this game. From getting reputation with 3 different factions to mining all of the bullshit, absolute pain. My brother just started playing and helping him is at the moment is the only thing that is giving me some fun on the game. And I really didn't want it to be this way, I really love this game and everything about it, but at its current state is difficult to stay on it.
Idk if they JUST recently changed this but I've doen fuck all open world grinding before this. Like, i was standing lvl 0 on fortuna, 2 on Cetus and 2 or 3 on Deimos, (with the front facing Syndicates) but grinding the mining resources really didn't take me more than 3 hours, maybe 4 to get all the mining ressources and level the factions to what I needed. What frustrated me the most was grinding vaults on Deimos (the open world ones)
I like the ambition behind all these updates, but honestly, running marathon T4 keyshares on the same endless Void missions over and over was more fun than all of this new content put together.
@@illegalfoodz8402 Couldn't agree more. I miss the old times when things were more simple without complex features left in the dust because DE didn't know how to manage them well.
@@illegalfoodz8402 No eidolons, no OW, no archwings (with guns being worse than normal gameplay while being 10x heavier with horrible requirements lmao), no liches, no railjacks, no ridiculous grinding for EVERYTHING... Just you and your friends having fun slaying everything or trying to go full sneaky with your Loki because you know : "Space NINJAS play free" 😀 Farming prime parts in the void on survival/defense with Ember/Frost/Hydroid (RIP my sweet boi). Damn I miss those simple yet funny times...
I was super into this game before the Plains update. I remember dropping destiny for warframe at first, simply because I found the late of world chat in Destiny infuriating for making it impossible to meet players and form clans. If your game requires 3rd party websites to chat and find other players, you suck, please stop lol. But the Plains... it made me so bored that I stopped playing. I tried coming back for Fortuna, but only played for a couple days and found nothing fun enough to try and catch up to the meta after such a long hiatus. I haven't played in years now. It sucks... Even when I was repetitively flying down hallways looking for specific crafting items, I had more fun than the broken-ass open world design they created. The game needs to feel fast, it needs to have claustrophobic hallways opening up into giant rooms or outdoor sections.The old level design just played so perfectly into their game design. If they had just found ways to evolve that gameplay loop, I wouldve stayed onboard for sure. Openworlds arent novel, and we've been in enough of the to know a bad one from a good one.Good openworlds are an artform that so many devs fail to understand, and that really sucks. Honestly, I enjoy being in buildings and architecture more than just running around outside.
I'm the other way around. Warframe was the 1st game I got on my ps4 back in 2014. Was my main game for years before I picked up D1. But at that point I was already burnt out on warframe. Did eventually get back to warframe for a few months but just couldn't get into it and started D2. When I got my ps5 late last year warframe was again the 1st game I installed. Played about a week of it and just gave up was just to overwhelming. So when right back to D2 which I'm still playing till today with the lightfall expansion.
I never had any issues with grinding up fortuna standing, but i recognize as a long term player I had a ton of shit to give to ticker. I think i ended up maxing out fortuna before finishing cetus. I did prefer bait blueprints but since some required fish parts i think it's good to have them be purchasable. still i'm glad i still have the old bait blueprints for cetus and i use them when i can. Also a minor lore note about fortuna, the corpus who were there had to *buy* all the augments so they would be perpetually in debt. Deimos looked cool but i didn't really like the progression. i don't like all the token nonsense, it felt like a massive pain in the ass to get the trumna which required me to get a seriglass from granny. I still haven't finished deimos' syndicate though i do finally have both necramechs, but haven't formad them. part of my problem though was i was burning out on the game at the time so eh. Also i'm MR 28 and i still don't have a zaw, i have a few kitgun secondaries though.
Fortuna is by far the worst syndicate to grind in this game. Debt bonds are by far the most annoying thing to farm in this game. You get 2 per drop, you need over 10 and it's a common drop. This game's drop system is insanely hypocritical sometimes. "Common" rewards in bounties feel like rare rewards; you never see them. Instead, you get the same garbage set mod literally NOBODY uses for the 30th time. My other issue is that it's just... boring. Fortuna's objectives are all way more defense oriented, and who loves to sit around for X minutes? Nobody. The game can also just... decide to screw you over. That one spy mission? If it spawns in an outpost instead of the base, you're screwed. Gone is your bonus. As for Deimos it's by far the easiest to rank up. The high tier mission gives over 100 tokens which is like 10k standing. That's double what the other high tier syndicates give. There's also nothing stopping you from making a massive stockpile and just logging day by day... which is how it should have been for ever syndicate in the first place.
You'd think that the helminth system would push them to make even more tightly designed abilities for warframes so that taking off an ability designed to synergize with their kit would be a trade off, but what do I know?
Yeah. There's always this disconnect between players and devs simply because they don't see the game the way we do. And I also get an impression that DE don't care much for making it simpler for players, or about player feedback for that matter, unless it threatens mass exodus.
Plains of Eidolon was and always will be peak warframe for me. I spent countless hours fishing, I could tell you which bait to use in which bit of water and what time of day you needed for any fish in the plains lol. Good times!
They need to implement some resources that are always useful and some new and harder missions, which could implement cooperation between the open worlds, as you gave the idea, in the steel path mode for acolyte spawns and steel essence, like a bountie that drops endo, kuva, forma, decent quantities of credits for each part of the mission, aya and even universal medalions. They could also create final parts where you must use necramechs for them to have a reason to exist and would drop new and powerful arcanes for frames, i think there should be a certain variety of arcanes for each map. Would be cool to see a defense where all enemies are at least lvl200 and demolysts would spawn and deal high damage to the target if they land their hit, both demos and demolysts being able to damage it sounds cool because that would require frames that can deal with hords and demos. Basically just like the raids we beg so much for, but in the open worlds
This was a great vid and I still don’t have enough Cetus wisps for my frame since I can’t be bothered. While little duck in fortuna will never get any rep from me because again I can’t be bothered. It’s so annoying to give items to unlock the next rep grind. If they remove that I wouldn’t mind leveling rep. Overall the open world is interesting but I still don’t feel like it’s Warframe yet.
Dude as for the duck it's so true. Tried to farm these things but even with boosters i've got like a few in an hour! I would have gotten much more use of this time just by playing "Survival"
I'm really not sure I agree with the criticism about the Opticor Vandal "just being a side-grade". That's exactly what I want out of Vandals/Prismas/whatevers. I want them to be "the gun, but different in this specific way". The Opticor Vandal plays incredibly different to the regular Opticor, and that's what made me want to grind it. I didn't care if I was doing less damage, I was chain firing piercing lasers. That was badass enough for me. Being disappointed because "number not go up" just seems like anyone who could possibly say that with a straight face needs to take a break from the game. You're not enjoying the game for what it is, you're enjoying numbers on a spreadsheet instead.
Gaining Standing is probably the easiest in Deimos. Fortuna debth bonds are tedious, Cetus is also really slow, but in deimos you can just grind mother tokens in one day and then just cash them in in subsequent days. Although to actually go through the ranks you need to do other things, but it still feels faster than other open worlds
I feel like you can teel that DE have been getting better per open world they make, cuz i can teel the next open world is always more fun than the last
I guess, but Deimos to me on release sort of felt mixed, although after many patches and fixes it definitely is better than it was before. However Deimos Arcana was just flat out rushed. Where as Plains To Fortuna was just a straight upgrade.
@@NovaUmbral Personally I find Fortuna to be the worst by a mile. Toroids, bonds and fractures are the absolute last things I would ever want to farm again. And while I have gathered all other somachords and kuria and that kinda stuff, I'm not gonna bother with Vallis somas and mem frags. Nothing in the plains has been on the same scale in painfulness
As someone who was a founder and played this game a ton early on, some of the content later just lost me and I quit. If I can't understand what I'm supposed to be doing without watching 3-4 hours of youtube videos, your game design needs help. It just feels so scattered to me and half the late game knowledge you have to get from other people instead of the game. I play once in a while but I just do the regular old missions and dream about the days when we could still wallrun.
It's interesting seeing this. I got out of warframe shortly after Fortuna. I was burned out of grinding the reputation for another bunch of factions. So it's interesting to see what I missed.
I rmb the duviri have bounties so if they could slip in some zariman bounty type thingy or completely ditch the way they design a mission in a tight space. Zariman bounties is probably the most enjoyable bounties I had done, compared to all open world ones, probably because it utilize what it is actually good at. Is like DE trying to make a tight space missions in a wide space area, which will absolutely not work, at all. No fixes could fix that. Ditch away the problems of the updates like bugs, the fundamental clash is just there, as none of the bounties I found myself enjoy with, simply because they just feel...Like not about content islands or something else, it is just not fitted well... Like we think about open world, we think about exploration, bounties that circle around this concept will be nice, find caches, steal relics, or sabotaging their crucial gears, or simply help someone that is outside the plains, or unearthing treasures that reward something special that is not obtainable by grinding, or even more simple, look how elden ring handle their open worlds, not to copy the concepts, but the designs behind it, gain understanding about it, and turn what you have learned about it into real actions. Not those defense ish missions where I deem to be unfit in such open world missions. Although I don't mind content islands, I just enjoy what the game throw at me and give reviews and thoughts, if it is a connected design but bad fundamentally, whether it is a content island or not, it is no difference for me. Zariman had proved a point. Their bounty designs for open worlds only work for tight spaces. A faster mission, a more simple objectives like only 1 objectives available, faster daily max standing, an optimal full tryhard loudout with t5 bounty, could let your standing maxed within 10mins, whether the player turned back or not, the experience is there. I feel like they're stepping into the correct direction now where they should stick with what they originally excels at. They simply tried too hard to make something that clash together, work. Donno about the duviri but they should completely ditch the mission design of the past, and actually come up with something very well fit into this duviri aka another attempt in open world. With the first glance of gameplay of it I can already see some big changes as it clearly take reference from how roguelike/roguelite works. Hope it is a success.
When I hear open world I usually think of the genre, so that was my expectation, but all we got was ordinary mission but it really big and looks unique and has a terrible terrible grind I loathe. I also don't like those really gimmicky features they add. I like when I have something new that I can work towards, usually within the game's core gameplay like gettn new warframes and weapons and mods, but stuff like Necramech is a requirement for some content and it's an entirely new progression to level and mod and grind equipment for and yikes. All for a feature I don't even care about in the slightest. Same with Archwings, same with Railjack. Stuff like this made me alt+f4 and uninstall for a while.
I'm really sad how many people make videos about "bad" things in warframe when the game is so good compared to other games like Destiny 2 (that I have 5k hours in) warframe has an actual reason to grind missions and you are rewarded for planning ahead. Also as the game is free you literally don't lose anything when the content has a rough start unlike paid DLC's which have only become more and more expensive for the same crap. (Again talking about Destiny 2)
People are making these "bad" videos because they want them to be fix also you do loose your time and enjoyment of the game when it comes out broken and buggy and so Grindy that people give up before reaching 1/4 of the content. Its gotten to a point where most of the content creators have given up on the game.
My updated review of Deimos: th-cam.com/video/E5r88ZkkIzg/w-d-xo.html
This took SO LONG to edit and make, please do like and share this if you enjoyed! Let me know if you want to see more longer videos like this in the future and as always thanks for your support
this vid deserves more likes, I was actually playing warframe while listening to this
I also think you misses out on the nerfs to weapons,warframe and general player power around that time example range damage fall off, walls now block abilities and weapons. Also don't forget about all the railjack stuff that didn't make it into the game
no
Railjack is bugged as hell too especially the easiest mission. It's like doing exterminate but spawners don't work. Sanctuaroum is bugged to but I think it's server overload. They will not fix that these problems ar from the start.
The argument of DE "coming to the rescue" and fixing exploit bugs instead of fixing the issue by shortening the farm is a messy, incomplete one.
The only thing that wouldn't count as an "issue that needs to be fixed/exploited past" by the community is a farm that takes less than 1 minute, or something that's a one time mission. Every form of sustainable gameplay form shouldn't be automatically considered an issue.
Now some people demand things to be more fun while lasting longer and staying fun the whole time, but that's easier said than done, especially for a free game with tight schedules.
the necramechs were the first time i looked up how to farm something and said "absolutely not." I drove doordash for a couple hours and bought it that night. Deimos was the beginning of the end for me when I realized I would rather work to buy something in a game than grind for it. Work was probably faster and more enjoyable too
The grind for them is actually pretty easy, easier than many Warframes; more or less on par with a Lich/Sister. I got the Bonewidow the other day and still have enough crap left over to build another voidrig (I won't, though).
Many of the weapons and mods from Deimos, however, are in the "lol, lmao" territory for me because the bounties just don't drop them.
@@VertietRyper Lich/Sister are ridiculous grinds as well, and where the first time I said "Yeah, this isn't worth it" personally.
The whole point of a free game is for you to find it easier to buy something. Otherwise, the company would go bankrupt. And in this case, Necramechs are made extremely cheap for a reason.
And generating 10s of millions a year is nothing more than "paying your hundreds of skilled employees a fair wage." Companies don't get to keep their profits either, those go back to investors. You're clueless if you think a company can just shut off all revenue generation for a whole year and create no new content just to fix thousands of tiny bugs that are each experience by 0.1% of players.
@@VernulaUtUmbra they're pretty easy. (Still sucks that you can get weapons with a 19% stat though)
They take about an hour and a half to do for a guarenteed weapon that's usually pretty good.
Go bankrupt?! Warframe isn't some Indie studio anymore. They generate 10s of millions every year now and they can't revamp old systems or bugs that have been there for years? The grind they put in the game is to make profit, not to keep the lights on.
Cetus Bounties are by far the hardest content in the game. As an MR 32, I can easily do level cap disruptions, no problem, but I can’t keep the defense progress above 50% with a gun to my head because no enemies spawn.
Unless you got high fire rate AOE (or mesa) its going to be a MASSIVE pain, but finding those drop ships before they come in can help keep it up
Just use arquebex on your corn bot ez pz
What you mean is you cant find them, just shoot down ships and looks for the massive energy beams that happen when a group of grineer get teleported in
@@NovaUmbral Does Acceltra help?
The 1 minute kill bonus bounty sucks the most
Honestly, the perspective I have on all of this, as someone who started to finally really get into the game about a year ago, is that now that all of these open worlds are just.. part of the game, their flaws kinda slip away into being just one part of a massive whole. There's no build up to be let down by, there's just a bunch of environments to explore. All of the open world areas together add so much depth to the experience, when viewed outside the context of a content drop. Deimos is actually my favourite location in the game now, funny enough, I adore the aesthetic of it.
Warframe is a game that gets criticized a lot for being too big for its own good, and the constant content creep being too much to handle, but in cases like this... it just feels like there's so much. Like there's such a defined difference between the game that I played years ago, with all of those little missions, and the game now, with all of these worlds to explore. I think that the worlds really add so much to the whole of the game
I came to say I agree took a 5 year break from warframe coming back has been such a treat the open worlds I really appreciate because it provides a change of pace that for me has kept the game from feeling super repetitive. My favorite addition so far has been the railjack missions, I love building my crew and going on these little spaceship adventures with them.
Anybody who has played this game for a while knows this is just Wasted Potential™️: The Official Video Game . By the time you realize the content is stale they are already hyping up the next piece of content that will ultimately be an unfinished mess.
@@live305 I've played this for 7 years and agree with op on this. Potential is just a hypothetical subjective high standard where you just lamenting over what it could be. You'll find the game more pleasant if you don't get hung up on such thing.
And I know what it's like, too. We all had that phrase when we are hopelessly hooked, that amazing feeling when experiencing second dream, and we've been chasing that high ever since. And we call that high: the potential.
Then I learned that I'd be happier being a filthy casual.
@@HavenarcBlogspotJcK trust me its not even about having high standards. Even when you don't expect anything you're still disappointed. They will hype up things then release them in a completely unfinished state, and then instead of working on it they move on. Lunaro, Railjack, Conclave, Archwings, etc. They might be a little better now idk but it seems warframe still has the same problems as pointed out in this video. Not to mention anytime players find a way to make the content bearable they just nerf whatever meta tactic you were using. Even if you go to the forums it still the same old complaints lol. Me personally I just stopped playing even tho I did make a video about it years ago
@@live305 I disagree but you're entitled to your own opinion.
The biggest problem with the open world have always been that they never go back and expand on it. Like they are filled with interesting locations we essentially never have interactions with. They don't add more types of bounties to the tables. Just nothing. Like they could so many things.
They could make location specific bounties. Like capture the central maintenance base, and then steal a coildrive, attach a bomb to it and drive it to the spaceport. Meanwhile you'll get stopped at checkpoints, where you can either try to stay undetected, or just kill all the corpus. Or help getting Solaris off world by entering the spaceport, clearing the way for the Solaris so they can get to the ship, and hack into a console allowing them to fly off world. Then with the temple of profit we have no idea what it even is despite there being loads of interesting things. I can also spot so many things around the Vallis that are clearly the designed to have a mission around them but they don't have 1. But these kinds of things would make bounties so much more fun to play than doing the exact same thing over and over again but in rotating places.
But it's not just the Vallis, the Plains and Deimos the same story.
Then there's the cycles... DE themselves said that the nights in the Plains were supposed to be dangerous but they aren't asside from the Eidolons that you can just ignore. I have recorded footage of Excalibur with no mods on literally just walking from 1 side to yhe other at night and I could easily do that with no problems. Yeah the Vomvalysts took my shields down a couple of times but as soon as you just keep walking and ignoring them, they will ho back going about their business. Like why are there not more different types of Eidolons really dangerous ones, or special type of Grineer that are meant to deal with Eidolon threats. Or actually interodice yhe flying Eidolons with a piece of wallmeat as a face they promised a whole ago and teased with the Revanant quest. According to DE themselves the day was supposed to be for everyone while the night was supposed to be a time for the experienced players but it doesn't feel that way. And with the cycle changes on Deimos and the Vallis, I don't feel any difference at all.
I'm also a bit disappointed about the fact that they scrapped having to manuevre your Railjack through all the Infested mass before entering Deimos like Steve teased us with when he first talked about an Infested open world.
i been dreaming about that complex in regard to missions since the first year playing the game ,if you still want complexity you might find that on DRG tho
My biggest complaint about that is the lack of interactivity. I'm an artist, I am no longer impressed by a game's graphics alone. If your game can't integrate liveliness with the pretty graphics, I don't care, because I've been around in the professional realm long enough that that's not a sell anymore.
I can respect the artistry of the designs, but if it's not all together, I'd rather just look at the art book.
thats by far not the biggest problem with open worlds
the biggest problem with open worlds is that they ruin the gameplay flow, which in turn ruins the grind
@@maggiem6209”I’m an artist” 🤓
Turning a Sci-Fi multiplayer shooter into a musical was definitely a power move
real
Total vibe kill for WF, Fortuna was the beginning of the end of my playtime.
@@maxieprimo2758 Lmao
@@maxieprimo2758 my vibe kill was when they revealed that warframes are really controlled by creepy kids inside of your ship. They went from mysterious killing machines to dumb anime kids. That was the end of warframe for me. I abhor the lore of this game. Total waste if you ask me.
@@moonasha I feel you man.
I thought the second dream was pretty dope when the funny anime kids were still mysterious at least, but it really has lost its luster by now.
They make too many far reaching goals and due to the free to play model they are forced to keep pumping out content, not going back to polish older content. Eventually things are simply abandoned straight up. This will NEVER change due to how the game is structured as a business model.
They do go and polish older content.
@@zachb1706 Rarely, and rebecca even admitted that they get complains about this, and she stated they simply can't
@@Darthmufin that sucks, looks like I cant come back then
@@zachb1706 They will polish one thing and break other things... I quit the game when Deimos was released (It was a buggy mess as well) and for some reason some Arbitration missions and Eidolon hunting became too buggy even tho they added nothing on it...
They just s*ck in optimization
That's just wrong, look at Riot and how they rework/polish older stuff even though it's a f2p game, it's definitely possible
i think its because DE is scared of the players getting through new content too fast so we wont get bored, so most of these things are to make us keep playing as much as possible
Right but in a way this should be a choice and not a force
except I cant keep playing as much as possible because of the stupid standing caps
This is their biggest mistake, when games force you to do things you do not like and frustrate their players, that is what will stick with them so most will eventually quit and they're incredibly unlikely to come back when their head is filled with menories of stress and frustration doing all the miserable grinds they got forced into.
Honestly DE and any other F2P game dev use that excuse. The thing is making the player feel frustrated over slow advancement so they swipe the card. I know DE is less bad than others but it's still the same tactic.
@@technoultimategaming2999 It is absolutely a choice, though. Even when talking about New War, you need only rank 3 from each open world, which is far less time than the rest of the requirements. And other than New War, you don't need to touch them at all.
Personally, I kind of wish they’d continued expanding Cetus. Turning it more into the Earth open map rather than a single town. Iron Wake would have just been a small area added to this. You’d be able to travel to new towns and meet new people with different things for you to do. Maybe even have united these different factions to have your back in the story. A lot of missed opportunities in Warframe tbh.
Exactly. I'd absolutely love it if there were open world "side quests", as in more interaction options with the actual people living there. That would easily increase the amount of time players stay on to play in those locations instead of endlessly grinding for a one part of a weapon or frame. Also I'm wondering if it's possible to change the 4 max player count in open world maps to a number slightly higher (tons of balancing and prolly server changes would be needed), so they won't have to worry about players being too diluted.
@@hollanderson Maybe even have said players split into groups for two or more or so different quests. Group A of 4 have to secure a place while group B of 4 need to help and/or bring back supplies.
@@adtrlthegamer7449 that was one of the promised things with railjack. Squad links etc..
@@hollanderson that sounds great. I'm a total sucker for the whole "superman helps with everyday problems" style of mission. I kinda love running errands for the common folk.
@@Teuwufeldude the squad link thing was such a let down 😭 it was such a dope concept and just flopped
I think that Deimos was something of an improvement, you could dedicate an entire session to just farm mother tokens and stack a whole bunch of them (especially in steel path) while also getting resources and stacking them up for father, essentially getting enough tokens to cap your standing for the next few days if you did't feel like spending an entire week on Deimos. The only real problem were the other family tokens to level up the syndicate (especially son's, fuck him) but otherwise it wasn't as bad as the other two, where once you reached the daily cap you might as well leave because there really wasn't anything meaningful to do other than bounties.
I like that they tried something new, but I didn't like the token system one bit. Completely devalued any other activity when you could just stack up bounty standing at 10k a bounty
@@zachb1706 I agree with the fact that it sidelined a lot of content. If i remember correctly, one of the best ways to get standing aside from bounties came from mining.
But at the same time, by the time deimos came around, i was a bit tired of mining, fishing and preservation so i don't really mind it was sidelined in favor of bounties xd
Deimos was classic DE we have the solution to a problem, but we didn't fine tune the solution.
A token system is smart. It lets DE have the standing caps that encourages players to play daily. But it also lets players farm without limit.
Buuuut. DE didn't take feedback on token drop rates, cost of items, token xp, and general balance to make the token system satisfying. If they did(or do eventually) tokens would be an objective improvement to their open world formula that should be added to the other worlds.
@@cortesacrawford even if the token system was perfect, I'd prefer to keep the other places unique
the towers also added a easy farm of resources = father, son, daughter tokens. that you could spam and level standing too.
I think the design issues go beyond the open world. I was expecting the design loop to look like ouroboros, a game that constantly cycled new content into its larger design so that everything grew from new content. Its the opposite. Everything they make tapers off into nothing, nothing connects back into itself. Which means that anything they make lasts about a week if that and then everyone is sitting waiting for more.
Great analysis, that exactly how warframe feels, like a bunch of disconnected ideas applied to a unorganized / badly composed mess
@@viniciuscunha327 I don't want to blame Steve, but I kind of blame Steve. He was the idea-man at the company entirely driven by his latest obsession. He thought spaceship combat is cool, so we got Railjack hammered into the game. He thought the Mordor games' nemesis system was cool, so it was shoehorned into the Lich/Sister system. He thought slow, lumbering mechs a la WH40k's Dreadnoughts were cool, so he pushed the necramechs. It all culminated with him deciding that an open world where all our warframes, mobility, and the weapons we love are taken away from us, replaced with a souls-lite melee combat system (and a horse) would not only be the coolest thing ever, but also the perfect introduction for new players, so we've got Duviri (even though he left the team to make his own game by the time it was finished).
It's kind of telling that after he left, all the newly released Frames had extremely fun, coherent, and powerful kits, all the new content focused on Warframes, we got a whole lot of actually impressive and well-received reworks, and most players seem to agree that Warframe is probably in the best state it's ever been right now.
Deimos is actually the least tedious i think, i can just save up a bunch of tokens by grinding an endless bounty and turn in enough to hit my cap for the day, come back tomorrow and turn in more without having to grind more. Thats exactly what i did too. I also found the iso vaults to be fun. I like the rewards.
I remember the difficulty scaling being pretty awful. You went from the enemies not even tickling you to getting one shot by a speck of dust falling on you.
I went from wiping out hordes of enemies to getting killed if a single flame eximus breathed in my direction.
@@RoboVirtueenemy scaling in fortuna is considered the easiest due a xoris insane aoe spam
8:25 Man I gotta say, remembering seeing the open world reveal and that reaction live Brings a tear to my eye. Simpler times, I just enjoyed the game for what it was. I feel like theres a lot of wasted potential and wish they focused on some different things.
This wasn't touched on in the video but another point in the "feels like an island" was that alongside Fortuna, Railjack was announced, as the way we will connect to all of these islands and eventually star chart 4.0 (3.0? It's been too long since I played the game). Alongside all the hype towards the reveal of these open worlds, DE had a grand plan but well, that hasn't happened yet and is most likely forgotten in favour of keeping players busy with more islands.
I love how the standing grind doesn't even make sense storywise, like on Deimos, you avert disaster, save everyone by throwing yourself in the fray in introduction quest, then it's "yeah sorry bro you still have zero standing with us despite everything you did, better start grinding to prove your worth" lol
I really like this type of video essay/retrospective. From what I've seen so far 20 mins in this video is really detailed and captivating. Hope to see more of this where you can go into detail about the history of certain activities such as eidolon hunts and profit taker and how it effected the community. I feel like as a newish player I don't fully understand what players felt at the time and the curiosity kind carves away at me. Hope to see more 👍👍👍
I am so glad you enjoy this type of content! I'm still experimenting a bit but I am so excited to make more in depth detailed videos about the history of activities and the game!
@@NovaUmbral Kuva liches and Sister of Parvos's would be a decent start I believe. From what I've heard it was a mess on release and took a year to fix up some what. That's a good amount of time to look through if you even need a idea or start.
The problem with going into too much detail is that most details are completely made up... Especially on TH-cam content.
For example, raids being removed because Eidolons were introduced... That's just false, but to fill the gap for an explanation, it was put in this video. The real reason is that raids were not worth working on because they kept breaking after every update and the dev team was too small to ignore that much work, especially since extremely few people played raids. If DE had started a paid option that allowed players to play raids, they could have survived, but since the game is free, they were removed.
Other inaccuracies include the "fix family issues" description of Deimos lore, representing Deimos as something that was supposed to improve the open world formula and tie everything together when it was a last minute replacement for New War because of the pandemic, Deimos being the most "tedious" while actually having the most ways to speed up grind, skipping the fact that number of bounty options doubled with Deimos Arcana, lying about what Helminth was "promised" to be, etc
Grinding conservation is a pain, yes. But it is worth noting that Cambion Drift introduced ambient animal spawns, meaning you can incidentally farm animals as they spawn while doing something else instead of having to do the dedicated minigame.
This has since been ported to the Plains and Vallis, and it makes tag collection a lot smoother in all locations. The minigame is now only for the rare tiers of animal, not a requirement to get any animals at all.
I would love to see at least a Mineral Exchange though, or some sort of resource cross-pollination. Cetus vendors seeing Deimos fish...
That would be fun and a great way to bring darvo into the mix for funnies, you should be able to trade like the debt bonds and Deimos ppl. That way there's a point to having high value trades that'll technically be biased to you, so you can have a timed resource trader plus a small bonus given as "trade pricing"
Ofc that's if they wanna be nice. Knowing DE if they ever make an exchange system it would be like the ducats bs where you trade in hours of grinded garbage to make the low tier stuff at least have a purpose and trade it for higher tier things.
@@isumkitchens5329 Debt-bonds for the Entrati would be cool, and it already has precedent since Granny invests in the Ventkids during The Waverider. 🤔
Wasn't it always the case for plains and orb? I've been shooting those rats and vultures since before Deimos was added.
@@lanoche They used to be just ambient wildlife you could kill for their drops. Fortuna added actual Conservation, tranquillizing etc. which was then backported into Plains after that. Mergoos, the different variants of Condrocs/Kuaka and Vasca Kavats were all later additions to the Plains animal roster. Having said that I'm not sure they ever turned *off* the Kuaka and Condroc spawns, so you do have a point that ambient spawns existed before Deimos.
Deimos however, added the ability for all conservation targets to spawn, essentially skipping the tracking and call phase and spawning the wild animal nearby with a sound cue. This was then added to Fortuna first and then Plains (I think), allowing all conservation animals to randomly spawn without having to participate in the track and call minigame.
This Weird and Obscure fact is also why out of all conservation animals Condrocs and Kuaka are the only ones to have actual drops.
You're summary at the end really does it for me. I'm ok with DE making mistakes and not getting things right the first or even second time around, I do need them to learn from their mistakes though. That's the important part.
The biggest selling point for the publishers when this game first came out was to be a "space ninja" surprised that wasn't mentioned.
Yeah, with the "Space ninjas play free" thing.
I miss the old days when being sneaky was a thing.
As a ninja, I hate minnnig and fishing. That's why I quit warframe.
I realize this comment is a year old but in the "jade shadows" update you give birth to a baby warframe in a quick time event. As a MR 29 player and a person from the early alphas, total vibe kill.
15:01 Ah yes cetus wisps. I'll never understand why they were so hard to find while also spawning at night most of the time. Making them harder to see.
And the fact you needed so many of them also felt like a mind boggling decision. Overall, I might have stuck with the game for a little longer instead of quitting if cetus wisps and other hard to grind items like them were never added in the first place.
It felt a lot like the old "Create the problem sell the solution" mentality since I'm pretty sure you could trade the wisps with other players or buy them directly off the market with platinum.
I had convinced a few friends to play this game with me and we were having a blast going through the star chart and learning how to mod and what weapons / warframes were good for certain missions.
Then Plains of Eidolon happened... we tried at first to embrace it but it was such a game breaking change and slog I actually stopped playing Warframe for a couple of years.
Coming back to try Fortuna did not help either. It would take me another year to finally get to rank5 with Fortuna. During this time I managed to level up to Rank3 with the Quills to make the 123 Amp. Hated every moment of it, felt like the core game had been abandoned.
I would take another long break then come back after railjack had been launched then fixed.
Deimos was to me the easiest and less grindy of the 3 in which I didn't find every moment a chore (maybe they had just finally broken me and now grind is part of my being).
Been playing again ever since but boy does every story quest and addition feel like it's own lil island of a game not tying in any core game play (you know the damn name sake, Warframes!)
Open worlds, railjack, archwing, operator, kdrive, a myriad of ability-immune/-nullifying enemies, Kahl, necramech, Orphix, the list keeps growing. It doesn't just feel like they've abandoned the core gameplay, they actually have (or maybe even the game itself with Soulframe). The only things building upon it in recent times have been Helminth, archon shards and the addition of shield gating. Which is nice, but when you're at the point where you have to work with those, you probably don't have much of the content where they're relevant left to do.
I find myself wondering, do DE secretly wish they never made this game?
You said it.
Biggest problem is they just abandoned core gameplay, and it keeps getting worse because the power creep is just insane.
I could do 1 hr solo Mot runs with Excalibur in 2017 without using arcanes or any other broken crap, now a challenge like that would be a complete joke because if how stupidly strong the frames are
Warframe had been my main game for a year when Plains came out. I quit within a month. Every once in a while I click on a warframe video, see one of my favorite frames or rocking a Corinth, and start to drool a bit. Then I stop and think, "What's actually here for you?"
Nothing. The frames I loved suck in an open world, the guns I loved suck in an open world. 3 separate dead end grinds, each with their own convoluted systems. This is the zombified corpse of the game I loved. It's painful to see where the game has gone, but it vindicates my decision to jump ship. I'm better off without Warframe.
@@v0ldy54 Man i miss the times when Mot was the hardest node on the star chart...
@@advicepirate8673 It's somewhat interesting hearing a recount like this because, myself, personally, enjoyed a lot of the open world stuff, but especially the fishing, which, I know, seems kind of weird. I would just grab Ivara, set up some ziplines, and run around over the pools, catching countless fish over the 30 minute period with little annoyance while listening to a podcast or something, and then usually sell them for a pretty good price.
But I also enjoyed Zephyr, who naturally isn't as dependent on archwings, and used sniper rifle a lot to do things like click on dropships.
The reason I more haven't come back to it is because I'm just not as interested in the grind.
I swore off touching Plains as much as I could until I either HAD to or something new there made me WANT to go there and make progress. The initial wonder wore off quickly for me and I found myself getting tired of the stuff available for you to do there, never mind how at the time things like Archwing Launchers were limited-use consumables, making travel lengthy too.
I think one of the things that turned me off about the open-world systems in general is the large amount of resources that are exclusive to the place you get them in. It makes sense to have goods require stuff you get there sure, but it got tiresome to have to do mostly the same activities to collect a large amount of resources to progress standing and get what you want three times over. I did this stuff at my own long, lazy pace, but even then that was just tiring.
3:12 The problem is, sometimes they really want you to play a specific way and that's when the fun factor drops by a lot.
I Really hope Duviri both does well, and plays well.
Since I found the game back in the Fortuna Launch, it has been my for life game, an endless bucket of fun that keeps on giving whenever I go to play it, it's certainly the game I spent most of my gaming hours on, and It is the game I want to play well into my future.
But there's always those moments where I come to think "Well this could be better" or "That could be different", I used to scowl at the Idea of "End Game", but as I come close to reaching the maximum content, things start to become stale. I started longing for systems and missions that are fun and reward me from the time invested, I'm still confused with the direction I would like DE to take the game, but I do hope that they find their path, would be a shame to see Warframe slowly starving from content until it bleeds it's playerbase.
I hope Duviri does well, I want to see the game grow and thrive, I'm always pretty happy seeing new Tenno through the System, and I would love to see new strides in technology and gameplay. Hope we go to Tau at some point, would be cool to have some twists and Railjack exploration, wich is a gamemode I find sooo fun to play around.
But bah, that's it.
Great video my guy, it teached me a lot of stuff I did not know about the start of the game, be sure to keep the amazing content, hydrate yourself.
I would rather take a new rep grind semi-empty open world then Drifter only rouge like content island .
I just don't have much hope for it , I didn't like Kahl missions and I doubt I like Duviri .
We know that Duviri doesn't have bounties so that already makes it better
Honestly, after Duviri comes, if I recall properly, that would be all that they've promised up to this point, right? Where will they go afterwards? Just kinda an interesting thought. Will they fully invest into expanding and fixing the content they have, or will they rush forwards with new ideas?
@@TimesOldRoman We still have no information on archwing rework and the implementation of squad link
@@TimesOldRoman I personally hope we get a year of updates like Lua's Prey that was just launched recently. Little lore tidbit, new simple gameplay mode, new frame.
"The game will never tell you to stop playing"
Daily Standing caps and the hourly reminder to take a break in chat:
As an MR15 getting back into the game after a huge break, farming Zariman syndicates feels a chore even though their arcanes and blueprints seem overpowered. That and all the Prime frames I gotta farm lmao
those guns will destroy everything once you get the final upgrade on them. zariman really do be dumb as shit sometimes. i'm working on the whole voruna/conjunction survival thing and i'm doing the level 180-200 steel path node because it gives the most plasma and the shotgun just kills everything and is just far stronger than any other gun i have. I'm not even running some kind of crazy buff frame like chroma, i'm just an oberon who doesn't want to die.
I actually really enjoyed the zariman grind.
The thing that ticks me off, is that whatever you do in open world is ultimately inconsequential. What's the point of raiding a grineer base if the enemies are just going to respawn. Could have just done an exterminate mission at that point and at least cracked some relics.
20:53 Fortuna's Intro always chills the shit out of me.
The song is grim, scary and beautiful.
I just loved it. ❤
And the visuals... and timing... oh wow. 😍
The best part for me is that they incorporated a ventkid dropping a hammer into the beat, I love the solaris
i never liked that song and never got the hype behind it either
@@BETTERTHANYOULOLZ this.
This just screamed 100% Borderlands for me and I didn't really like it tbh
Sounds like elephant mating remix to me wtf
Warframe needs good stories, both big and short. ESO has stories/quests with item rewards. Makes the adventure meaningful as it unravels stories.
coming from someone with 5000+ hours into ESO, the stories are really predictable and formulaic post-elsweyr and most of the rewards are really not worth anything so i wouldn't use it as a good example. you're better off farming dungeon or trial sets on normal difficulty, most of which can be easily pugged.
@@noba04 that's sad. Good thing I haven't bought the DLC
This was such an amazing discussion! I joined warframe right after the announcement of Plains of Eidolon. I grinded hard to be ready for the Eidolon fight (I wasn’t). I kept grinding the Eidolons till my first 6x3 in every role… but after a few thousand hydro captures… it was time to move on. Profit Taker was a very cool fight. And I’m anxious for the 3rd spider… if that ever comes. Now I’ll watch your other videos. Can’t wait to see your discussion about railjack 😂
Oh man Railjack will be a doozy haha!
man you know that third spider is never going to drop, they completely abandon these as soon as they moved to the next ones
@@yungoldman2823 we can only dream… it’s been like this from the very beginning… and it’s the only thing that kept us going… but you are probably right 😔
I just realized I stopped playing warframe for a few years around the time Deimos came out. I was too young at the time to understand why I was losing interest, but I think this video cleared it up for me.
I'm back now trying to catch up lol. I'm mainly enjoying the game when I'm not doing open world stuff
Personally, I mined for Fortuna standing because I felt it was less annoying than bounties. I enjoyed the open worlds generally, but how we start from scratch each time is annoying. Especially when bulk mining or fishing is needed. Also I despise how much conservation I had to do to up the ranks, get helminth, and my panzer.
Keep in mind although this video can sound like it is hating on the game from middle to end it ISNT. if youve played even less than 100 hours, you understand this player would need to have played the game enough that he is logically at LEAST fond of the game because to know what he knows about the game you have played the shit out of it. The issues he has come from wanting the game to see its full potential maximized for that benefits us, the developers and publisher and makes future titles like SOULFRAME worth looking forward to. 👍
this kinda mad that the namar update destroyed the visuls of fortuna :
from cozy winter to slightly snowy plains 2.0
fr it feels like fortuna lost their personalty
wholeheartedly agree, for me and my boyfriend it was our favorite open world because we're both huge fans of snow and winter, now it's just sad
I think the mainproblem at Warframe is:
1.: There are only "Kill things" Quests (Yes capture is there too but mainly you still kill everything still only....).
There is not eal varety.
And
2.:the Poblem of every MMO: Your tasks have no mpace or consequence to the world.
Agree with the retrospective on cetus and fortuna(I would've been way more harsh with fortuna). But with deimos? Holy shit you absolutely missed the nail dude.
Deimos was an immense step up. It had so many very evident upgrades over the typical open world formula. The token system was great because it meant that you could essentially stockpile rep for days that you felt like you just didn't wanna play. The bounties for deimos offered rewards in amounts that actually MATTERED. The deimos bounties were also faster. Not by much but still faster.
Then we have the rankup requirements. It wasn't like fortuna where you had to grind for a CHANCE at getting what you need. You just spent a set amount of time to get grandmother tokens for the seriglass shard, or for whatever tokens you needed from the family members.
And the hunting and fishing. Hunting on deimos was mega easy. There's only 1 animal that's a pain in the ass to catch and you can straight up just ignore it. You could also use the tranq rifle from fortuna.
And fishing in deimos was great because actually CATCHING the fish was the dumbest easy thing ever. No stupid item requires to actually fucking see the fish, no. They just float around in the air. Didn't require any specific spear besides the starting deimos one.
And while deimos didn't actually SHIP with a modular system, it didn't need to. The weapons you got from deimos were great.
And to go on about necramechs, notice how nobody every really complains about having to use them. They complain about them not being allowed to be used in every mission type. To me, that means necramechs were a success. They're cool. They're fun.
Deimos was a good open world. If the others were like deimos, I don't think people would complain.
Edit: also I'm so damn miffed over your gross misinterpretion of the deimos questline. Deimos was about the tenno being re-acquainted with an old orokin family and putting aside your assumed differences in an effort to save the heart of deimos. Which was an integral power source for orokin-made synthetic lifeform functions. The reveal at the end was that grandmother was behind the attempt on the heart of deimos' integrity, in order to get the family working together again. Your character being called in was a side effect. So grandmother was basically like "hey help me with this"
So the post-storyline story is that the family is helping you uncover the secrets of the moon and the void at large with the iso vaults, uncover their lost history and regain their memories, and cause them to bond over these efforts. All according to grandmother's plan.
Cope hard shill demon fanfk... de shill everywhere
As someone who played Waframe for about two months just a little ways after Eidolon had been released and not knowing about ANY of the fanfare or lore, I was super surprised when I suddenly came upon this entire planet that was completely different from the rest of the game. It was a very welcome surprise, and super cool... for about a month.
I farmed to get Gara cause I thought she looked super cool, fun to play, and I'm a Naruto simp. By about the time I finally got all of her blueprints, I was already feeling the burnout from the Bounties described here, and I wasn't even doing them for the reputation levels. I just wanted a single character.
I think that was what really clued me in that I liked the normal gameplay of Warframe, but I wasn't cut out for the level of grinding necessary and the repetition of whatever the plains were going to entail. I look back fondly on those two months, but knowing that the following open world expansions seemed to be more of the same is a welcome reassurance that I ducked out at the right point for me.
The fall started all the way back when they added Archwing imo. They added it and a handfull of missions and then proceeded to not touch it for years. A coming trend as we would see.
I’ve been saying for the longest time that if raids come they should tie into open worlds and be tied railjack as well to some capacity.
No fuck railJack that should have never been made.
My biggest problem is with the New War. You have a story where the Narmor have taken the system. You catch the fade so hard you have to go into hiding. After you beat the story, you get told "oh well they are still in the system. You gotta clear them out." Which equates to the Khal missions and the hunts. You don't go to Cetus or Fortuna and see them fighting the Narmor. Or taking down their stuff. Or even play a mission where the tile set and enemies are Namor skinned. It could even be a flag if everyone has done that story quest the map gets that skin every now and then. I get that you don't want to ruin it for newer players. But if that's the case then why can I go do a low lvl mission and hop out into my operator? That's a pretty big spoiler.
Warframe has and has always had the problem of: Every system feeling like it's own segmented thing. You don't ever see people from Fortuna helping out on Cetus or vice versa. Khal doesn't appear in a mission and ask for help.
I always thought "It would be cool for the Tusk/Terra units to fight with us against narmer" but no. They just... replace the spawns, and it's weird because as soon as the bounty ends, Narmer just... vanishes.
28:25 "The world was so much bigger [...] but it felt even more empty."
I mean, duh.
That's the problem with all open world games in my opinion. It's not about the size of the world, it's about how many cool things you can actually do in that space.
Outer Wilds is a good example of a rather small world, but everything serves a purpose and there's no pointless filler.
The anti-UbiSoft-game.
After watching the video throughly, I've come to the realization that.....WE NEED ANOTHER OPEN WORLD THAT INTRODUCES CARS SET IN THE MOON WITH A NEW DOUBLE OR NOTHING BOUNTY SYSTEM WHERE YOU CAN DOUBLE A BOUNTY TO GET EXTRA REWARDS BUT IF YOU DIE YOU GET NOTHING BUT A DEBT IN PLATINUM.
That would be the ultimate warframe experience
If you see the inside of my Orbiter, you'll quickly realize that I never got the "optional" part of getting floofs.
I made over a hundred thousand plat because of the plains and how nobody wanted to farm gems, but everybody wanted the arcanes. I just grabbed a booster and farmed a bunch of gems, once I had plat flowing I would just buy out anyone who sold cheaper than me and controlled the price of gems for months.
my brain actually blocked out the words "medical debt bonds" until you brought it up, thanks for making me relive that PTSD
FYI, at tennocon, they were very specific how the helminth system worked. This is a huge miss on the video. Overall, I liked the editing process. However, I think a good way to move forward would be making a video of exactly what warframe could give us that would fix it in your mind. Comparing progression, systems and etc. from other games. Most people watching this are already warframe players and know much of what you're stating with their own opinions. I think the actual miss on deimos were the vaults. I thought these were gonna feel like fantasy mmo dungeons, and we'd need to bring support damage and tanks to survive. Plus, it's an option to go endlessly, implying you're going deeper
Yes, sorry I pinned a comment stating that, apologies
@NovaUmbral missed the comment. Thx. I did enjoy the video. I do feel like a video about things DE could do to improve the game would be good though.
Warframe has a lot of issues, first one being the "loot". Its not a looter shooter, its a resource shooter. The melee combat needs a real rework, its a boring button mash. The open worlds were a poor execution, apart from the bosses there's nothing really interesting going on... and that's a shame. Nice vid, liked, subed, keep up the good work!
I am a Warframe GRAND MASTER FOUNDER. Been there since the beginning.
*Today when I boot up the game I just stare at the starchart, the fifty new warframes, and dozen's of new currency's and TURN IT OFF*
What the game needs imo is a 'session mode' where a group of friends can just boot up a game and have fun together regardless of their level or warframe or mods or weapons.
you can do that though? im not sure what would prevent you. just create a squad for your mates, pick a node and go wild. can also mess around by picking a random captura.
Maybe. I used to have hours and hours of fun doing glitchs on the old simulacrum and playing hide and seek in the captura scene with my friends
man i miss the old prime part farming days in void :(
@@jannesrosenberg926 Amen, opening the game and just start doing endless survival or defense in the void. One of the few games where I liked the random matchup with other people. Because they hadn't added all those new gameplay 'islands', there was always a big change someone was already doing a void run when you planned to go in.
1:29 "You have been playing for over an hour, please don't forget to take a break."
I used to play the raids everyday multiple times in the school bus. It was exciting to prep and grind to get just the perfect build and get those raids done right after reset. I mostly left Warframe a few weeks after only coming back for history quests. A lot of friends fully disappeared from my life. All because DE didn’t think raids were important and wanted to change how to get arcanes. I still miss those squads I used to be on raids with. 😢
I love using my Zaw! My first one is great! I made a second one which the parts combo wasn't as good, so I gave that one up and stuck with my first. Having the Arcane added that allows me to throw the Zaw is awesome and having it explode a bit upon contact when thrown is so nice! I did rename it to Zog. I thought "a 3 letter word starting with Z" like Zaw... why not Zog which was a good "bad guy" in an old Superman movie, so that's what I went with.
Do you mean zod?
I think the other problem to is that many gamers have more time on their hands than they know what to do with. Griding is just part of their day to day, besides the open world not having enough, we also want too much and don't realize how much time we spend maxing out Warframes mods and weapons. So once you realize you can 1 to 3 tap everything, the fun will of course diminish for many, where in my case I recently came back to Warframe but still haven't gotten anywhere in the game, the open world would be nice to get to but I just cant stand the grind anymore. We as humans always want the next thing that's natural. Though when you spend all day playing games to the point you've made it to end waiting on content to come to you, I don't see that as a failure from the developer. That's that "grindset" that keeps players from enjoying games, instead of taking time off/or a break and finding something else to play/do. I'm a fan of always chasing content, being "first" is just temporary a title.
On the other side of things open worlds are so hard to perform when you have only so many possibilities. You can build youre Warframe however you want but they're only limited to so many moves. You can Cross the map at lighting speed but you will always for the most get there in the same way. Even GTA's Open worlds can get boring in the right players hands its how you evolve on it. I believe Warframe's devs put in open worlds to save their own skins and keep the game going, but now has to cope with always having to expand, but when's the point of what else can we do that isn't the same as what we previously put out but also, the same stuff that other games are doing. Space Travel, Procedural worlds, raid bosses, tankier bosses with players its just :so much want over, what can be made.
Hopefully someone knows what I'm trying to convey here but I hope Warframe a long and prosperous life their isn't many if any games like it on the market and you can see its trying to keep its identity.
I think where it all went wrong was when DE STOPPED doing new stuff and just started copy pasting the plains of eidolon with every new update, we got fortuna we got deimos and now we got duviri and its all just the same tho ill give them credit for duviri bc it is a bit different
Great video, but I need to say that DE never promised being able to put any ability on any warframe, from the moment it was shown on tennocon they said you could extract a predetermined ability to put on other frames
The Eidolons might have been buggy at launch (and there's still a few bugs right now), but let's not pretend like the raids didn't have endless issues alongside very low player engagement. I'd love to see a return of 8 player content
EDIT TO ADD: The Fortuna intro will never not give me chills. Still one of my favorite things they've ever done in this game
you forgot the endless grinding and gathering of items.
For me the problem exist as part of the game structure. We load in complete our goals then abandon the world, our main reason to be part of these worlds is to complete the bounties. This is the Ubisoft activity structure that devalues the open world.
Ingesting the prospect of just hunting fishing and mining feel more enjoyable as open world gameplay as they don’t fit in this activity structure.
I think the best option would be to abandon the bounties, or swap them for the overmap missions, and focus of making the open world maps just exist as open world maps.
We are also forgetting that when open worlds started coming out regular game a content updates went from like 2-4 times a year to one time a year i stopped playing after plains i killed the eidolons and went "well that was cool" and didnt want to farm anything
The pursuit of efficiency is what killed most of it. No doubt they're grindy, not denying that. But look at things like the k-drives. People always say, "why do I wanna use that, when I can use itzal to just blink everywhere". You're not wrong. It's probably more efficient that way, but k-drives are fun. Fun at the cost of being less efficient.
With all that said, the reason we keep finding ways to be efficient is because the game itself is forcing our hands to do so. With all the artificial gating, and endless grind loop. It's no wonder the player base keep finding ways to be efficient. And if things are given too easily, then it will lack value, and it will also mean players run out of things to "work" towards.
I personally feel like adding a simple "pity system" to things that we need to grind for would make a world of difference. Each bounty mission we complete, should grant us with a certain kind of resource which in turn could be used to purchase the things on the bounty reward list. At least, the grind won't feel like an endless loop of time sink, with no glimmer of hope. At least with this, there'd be a minimum amount of runs we need to do, to earn the things we want. It would make doing bounty missions a whole lot more bearable tbh. Just knowing the fact that there's a realistic timeline in which the items could be obtained, will make things feel a whole lot better. As opposed to not knowing how many more billion bounties we need to run.
Problem with K-Drives is they just do what other methods already do, but worse. They have no real purpose on their own other than "fun". Gimmicks like that need a mechanic that they do better than any other method, otherwise it'll always be an irrelevant side gimmick, which isn't bad but expect 99% of players to just not use it lol
Bro, you just described the biggest issue I have with the game. I hate grind. I can accept grind, but only if it's within reasonable limits, and here it's anything but. I don't want to be efficient, I want to relax and have some fun, but where is the fun in unreasonable grind? It is just a game, for fuck's sake.
I usually play it for a few days and the drop it for months, if not years. I've played it for a very long time, but I'm only MR10, which I got only few days ago. I feel conflicted on whether I should experience all of content and story for myself, or just watch it on YT and forget about the game altogether, since it seems to be better use of my time.
The game is just no fun.
"the game will never tell you to stop playing"
this is a bold faced lie. D:<
the game tells you hourly: "You have been playing for over an hour, please don't forget to take a break."
Bro really just needed to show the whole "We all lift together".
#relatable
i never meet any of that issue when the plain release and i enjoy every last detail of the world i still would go back to cetus do everything.
Major problem with warframe isn't the open world, the grind or the tediousness of it all. It's the content islands, it's keeping the grind for just one thing that exists only in one place and once you obtain it you have no reason to go back at it again. How happy I actually was when the deimos kitgun parts were compatible with fortuna ones, or the AMPs with Cetus, how satisfying it felt that there's a bridge between content, that is not isolated. But it is a single one, the only one. Right now I literally have no real reason to go back to these open worlds unless I'm forced to.
I have but 1 question, what is that glyph on the back 2:45
Sometimes I just want to fish without being shot at so frustrating
Bro same 🥲
@@dantexkv9983 As a ninja, I hate minnnig and fishing. That's why I quit warframe.
This is a pretty good look into and a summary of all the open world content that we've had thus far. I would love to see more of the history of warframe done through this kind of video!
I think while the Zariman is not an open world, it does fit into the same kind of expansive content that introduces a new faction, new weapons, and all that jazz. I think the Zariman is the best of this kind of content we have gotten thus far, and I dont think its due to the fact that its just limited to a new title set either (while that does help). The Zariman works so well because of it introducing a large amount of new mission types that are unique and interesting and rather fun to play imo too. On top of that, the fact that bounties are side objectives that are easily done on top of the regular game mode (and not just mobile defense done 5 times in a row) really help keep things simple and fresh at the same time. Im hoping that they one day can take what they did for the Zariman and apply it to the older open worlds. These wouldnt be 1 to 1 probably, but I think the Zariman shows they have a strong understand of what is both fun and engaging for a major faction.
Console player btw. Last time I played Fortuna (last time I tried getting into it lol I should try again) I still found a shit ton of bugs. I gave up after the fifth or more bug that locked me from finishing a bounty. This happened maybe one year ago now. To this day imo Fortuna is the worst open world ignoring the things good in a vacuum. I've seen the boss fight in vids and it does look fun. At least Deimos and all that is stuff I've been able to do without the frustration I felt in Fortuna. To be fair, like I said, I should try it again but ehhhhhh.
I can't blame you, the medical debt bond grind is stupid and there should be a easier way to get them, Ticker is just not consistent half the time.
@@NovaUmbral Yeah it's just so frustrating and the bugs just put the final nail in the coffin whenever they happen. Like I said, I'll probably give it another go eventually but ugh.
I hope that with Duviri they show they've learned their lesson from the past experiments. I don't have high expectations but I am definitely inhaling some hopium deep in me lol. A big redesign for past open worlds is definitely not gonna happen but at least Duviri could be the best from all the content islands if they learned.
But if anything I'm more focused on their implementation of cross-play and cross-save. Only thing I'm truly excited about Duviri is the lore and story implications.
Fortuna gas profit taker which makes good ig
Honestly making the open worlds a lot smaller would probably do them some good, there's so much empty space
i have 2k+ hours on WF and i gotta say it keeps giving, the only thing that i can say is truly "bad" is that warframe or DE (the dev team) has no direction, i grinded so damn much but honestly everything past 200h played it felt off.
The necramech was an absolute ridiculous grind.
I came back after year’s hiatus, last played when first open world came out.
It took me a week to grind for it, non stop, and I still threw roughly 40 plate to speed up the process of getting it.
You need rank 1 of both fortuna and Cetus syndicate to get material blueprints, which involves a few hours of mining and fishing.
You need to do Venus railjack missions for isos, which means you need to build a railjack, which is a whole another grind.
You need to run the operator pillars in Deimos to get other crafting materials and spend a decent amount of time farming caves and fishing
Then you need to farm the vaults, which will take about a week of doing to get all the parts. I ended up buying one of them on the trade market cus I couldn’t get them all.
It was awful, hours down the drain doing shit I didn’t want to do.
Then there’s the other grinds, getting the Helminth for instance, you gotta grind to associate rank on Deimos, which means hours of hunting, fishing, mining, and vault runs.
Then there’s the railjack, a long quest where you run to about 10 different missions and cough up crafting materials each time.
All this to try to get to archon shards to complete the new world quest which was my ultimate endgame. I just wanted my warframe to be up to par in power levels with everyone else. It’s absolutely ridiculous how the game forces you to do arbitrary things in the open world just to progress the main story line.
I’d normally buy it with plat, but the necramech was simply too high in cost 375 plat if I remember. Also ridiculous
Out of all the grind you're complaining about Deimos? The easiest syndicate to rank up hands down? Just stockpile tokens, it's not that hard. Sure the Necramech is an absolute pain to get, but a week? I guess you were really unlucky... but I don't believe some of it.
Rank 1 is just 1 or 2 bounties, easy as hell. Cetus needs rank 2 if I remember correctly. What really takes forever is the damaged necramech parts, they do take forever.
The Railjack also really isn't much of an issue. I spend an hour, 2 at best doing it.
75 Isos is also like 2 or 3 missions at best.
@@zacsolo1594 here’s the thing, it’s easy on paper, cus you probably accumulated and done all this stuff overtime. The grind is a lot more tedious if you’re new and trying to get to the new war quest as soon as possible. Everything is connected when trying to grind for the railjack and necramech and you quite literally have to have done all three open world instances on top of getting the right parts and materials
I didn't; I had never touched Fortuna or Cetus before starting the Necramech. I swear the Railjack wasn't that expensive, despite you speedrunning or not
For me, the problem of Warframe wasn't the open worlds, but the grind, too much of it and I got bored eventually.
When it comes to MMOs that go from instanced based quest, to the open world based gameplay formula I'm cautions of it because it feels like its rarely done right. you get a big pretty world with the occasional world boss and the daily quests to kill X amount of mobs in a field. it gets stale fast personally. and in the grand scheme of thing you'll have this big world but on a day to day basis only operate in a fraction of it because you just want to get your bounties done. Once you've seen it all, you've seen it...Yes it can be magical seeing a bunch of players in an open word fighting a big boss, i get the social aspect of it being an MMO at the end of the day.
Personally i like instance based quests. get into a party with 4 friends and clear floors with random objectives and maybe a miniboss then on the final floor beat the main boss, collect loot and exp. its just a much more personal experience to me. especially when its set up so that the higher you climb the game gets more difficult but also more rewarding.
Making the boss invurnerable to damage always felt bad as a mechanic.
I came back and quit when this cane out
I was already leaning and relearning the game on top of grinding
After coming back this year and having to continue to get the wings to fly on the infested world, I don't regret taking a break.
This is a video that DE might need to look into, Warframe for me was at one point Funframe, then turned into Grindframe then ultimately into Boreframe. I have currently stopped playing this game until its next large update that will get me back into it for a few weeks then will bury it again most likely.
Side Story: I am a support kind of player when it comes to most class based games and when i unlocked Trinity way way way way back in beta times, she was great, now shes a redundant and unnecessary frame. IMO, each update should have a consideration into remastering all frames, even if that frame was already remastered before. All frames need to exist flawlessly in any mission, not specific missions.
*sad Hydroid noises*
@@D1mly exactly. In about every game i usually play the non-meta way (Using the worst weapons, worst characters, least played roles, etc.)
I just got back to WF after 5 yrs. I got reminded quickly why I quit when I went to Cetus 2 days ago and needed to do bounties.
Last week I farmed the whole necramech (with the exception of the diagrams, that I somehow got it on the 6 month break that I took). I did that to do the new war quest and because I really was curious to see how bad it would be. What a mistake lmao
The fucking grind to get all the damn components was something that I will always remember from this game. From getting reputation with 3 different factions to mining all of the bullshit, absolute pain.
My brother just started playing and helping him is at the moment is the only thing that is giving me some fun on the game. And I really didn't want it to be this way, I really love this game and everything about it, but at its current state is difficult to stay on it.
Idk if they JUST recently changed this but I've doen fuck all open world grinding before this.
Like, i was standing lvl 0 on fortuna, 2 on Cetus and 2 or 3 on Deimos, (with the front facing Syndicates) but grinding the mining resources really didn't take me more than 3 hours, maybe 4 to get all the mining ressources and level the factions to what I needed.
What frustrated me the most was grinding vaults on Deimos (the open world ones)
A good way to explain Deimos is simple
Having not played Warframe in a year, I legit forgot Deimos existed despite having played it the most recently.
I like the ambition behind all these updates, but honestly, running marathon T4 keyshares on the same endless Void missions over and over was more fun than all of this new content put together.
Miss the old void farming days.
@@illegalfoodz8402 Couldn't agree more.
I miss the old times when things were more simple without complex features left in the dust because DE didn't know how to manage them well.
@@jacktheripper7935 I agree.
@@illegalfoodz8402 No eidolons, no OW, no archwings (with guns being worse than normal gameplay while being 10x heavier with horrible requirements lmao), no liches, no railjacks, no ridiculous grinding for EVERYTHING...
Just you and your friends having fun slaying everything or trying to go full sneaky with your Loki because you know : "Space NINJAS play free" 😀
Farming prime parts in the void on survival/defense with Ember/Frost/Hydroid (RIP my sweet boi).
Damn I miss those simple yet funny times...
@@jacktheripper7935 really do miss the simpler times. Made most of my online friends during that period.
34:13 kinda hard to make these areas feel conected when they're literally in different planets of the solar system
I was super into this game before the Plains update. I remember dropping destiny for warframe at first, simply because I found the late of world chat in Destiny infuriating for making it impossible to meet players and form clans. If your game requires 3rd party websites to chat and find other players, you suck, please stop lol. But the Plains... it made me so bored that I stopped playing. I tried coming back for Fortuna, but only played for a couple days and found nothing fun enough to try and catch up to the meta after such a long hiatus. I haven't played in years now. It sucks... Even when I was repetitively flying down hallways looking for specific crafting items, I had more fun than the broken-ass open world design they created. The game needs to feel fast, it needs to have claustrophobic hallways opening up into giant rooms or outdoor sections.The old level design just played so perfectly into their game design. If they had just found ways to evolve that gameplay loop, I wouldve stayed onboard for sure. Openworlds arent novel, and we've been in enough of the to know a bad one from a good one.Good openworlds are an artform that so many devs fail to understand, and that really sucks. Honestly, I enjoy being in buildings and architecture more than just running around outside.
I'm the other way around. Warframe was the 1st game I got on my ps4 back in 2014. Was my main game for years before I picked up D1. But at that point I was already burnt out on warframe. Did eventually get back to warframe for a few months but just couldn't get into it and started D2.
When I got my ps5 late last year warframe was again the 1st game I installed. Played about a week of it and just gave up was just to overwhelming. So when right back to D2 which I'm still playing till today with the lightfall expansion.
This video is actually great, you gotta make more content like this.
I never had any issues with grinding up fortuna standing, but i recognize as a long term player I had a ton of shit to give to ticker. I think i ended up maxing out fortuna before finishing cetus. I did prefer bait blueprints but since some required fish parts i think it's good to have them be purchasable. still i'm glad i still have the old bait blueprints for cetus and i use them when i can. Also a minor lore note about fortuna, the corpus who were there had to *buy* all the augments so they would be perpetually in debt.
Deimos looked cool but i didn't really like the progression. i don't like all the token nonsense, it felt like a massive pain in the ass to get the trumna which required me to get a seriglass from granny. I still haven't finished deimos' syndicate though i do finally have both necramechs, but haven't formad them. part of my problem though was i was burning out on the game at the time so eh.
Also i'm MR 28 and i still don't have a zaw, i have a few kitgun secondaries though.
Fortuna is by far the worst syndicate to grind in this game. Debt bonds are by far the most annoying thing to farm in this game. You get 2 per drop, you need over 10 and it's a common drop.
This game's drop system is insanely hypocritical sometimes. "Common" rewards in bounties feel like rare rewards; you never see them. Instead, you get the same garbage set mod literally NOBODY uses for the 30th time.
My other issue is that it's just... boring. Fortuna's objectives are all way more defense oriented, and who loves to sit around for X minutes? Nobody. The game can also just... decide to screw you over. That one spy mission? If it spawns in an outpost instead of the base, you're screwed. Gone is your bonus.
As for Deimos it's by far the easiest to rank up. The high tier mission gives over 100 tokens which is like 10k standing. That's double what the other high tier syndicates give. There's also nothing stopping you from making a massive stockpile and just logging day by day... which is how it should have been for ever syndicate in the first place.
You'd think that the helminth system would push them to make even more tightly designed abilities for warframes so that taking off an ability designed to synergize with their kit would be a trade off, but what do I know?
Yeah. There's always this disconnect between players and devs simply because they don't see the game the way we do. And I also get an impression that DE don't care much for making it simpler for players, or about player feedback for that matter, unless it threatens mass exodus.
Plains of Eidolon was and always will be peak warframe for me. I spent countless hours fishing, I could tell you which bait to use in which bit of water and what time of day you needed for any fish in the plains lol. Good times!
As a ninja, I hate minnnig and fishing. That's why I quit warframe.
They need to implement some resources that are always useful and some new and harder missions, which could implement cooperation between the open worlds, as you gave the idea, in the steel path mode for acolyte spawns and steel essence, like a bountie that drops endo, kuva, forma, decent quantities of credits for each part of the mission, aya and even universal medalions. They could also create final parts where you must use necramechs for them to have a reason to exist and would drop new and powerful arcanes for frames, i think there should be a certain variety of arcanes for each map. Would be cool to see a defense where all enemies are at least lvl200 and demolysts would spawn and deal high damage to the target if they land their hit, both demos and demolysts being able to damage it sounds cool because that would require frames that can deal with hords and demos. Basically just like the raids we beg so much for, but in the open worlds
This was a great vid and I still don’t have enough Cetus wisps for my frame since I can’t be bothered. While little duck in fortuna will never get any rep from me because again I can’t be bothered. It’s so annoying to give items to unlock the next rep grind. If they remove that I wouldn’t mind leveling rep. Overall the open world is interesting but I still don’t feel like it’s Warframe yet.
Dude as for the duck it's so true. Tried to farm these things but even with boosters i've got like a few in an hour! I would have gotten much more use of this time just by playing "Survival"
You sir….made me wanna play Warframe again…I do not know how,but I thank you.
I'm really not sure I agree with the criticism about the Opticor Vandal "just being a side-grade".
That's exactly what I want out of Vandals/Prismas/whatevers. I want them to be "the gun, but different in this specific way". The Opticor Vandal plays incredibly different to the regular Opticor, and that's what made me want to grind it. I didn't care if I was doing less damage, I was chain firing piercing lasers. That was badass enough for me. Being disappointed because "number not go up" just seems like anyone who could possibly say that with a straight face needs to take a break from the game. You're not enjoying the game for what it is, you're enjoying numbers on a spreadsheet instead.
Gaining Standing is probably the easiest in Deimos.
Fortuna debth bonds are tedious, Cetus is also really slow, but in deimos you can just grind mother tokens in one day and then just cash them in in subsequent days. Although to actually go through the ranks you need to do other things, but it still feels faster than other open worlds
I feel like you can teel that DE have been getting better per open world they make, cuz i can teel the next open world is always more fun than the last
I guess, but Deimos to me on release sort of felt mixed, although after many patches and fixes it definitely is better than it was before. However Deimos Arcana was just flat out rushed.
Where as Plains To Fortuna was just a straight upgrade.
Fortuna is still the best open world to me. The setting, size and story. Also I like the orb fights, something I can't say about the necramech fights
@@NovaUmbral Personally I find Fortuna to be the worst by a mile. Toroids, bonds and fractures are the absolute last things I would ever want to farm again. And while I have gathered all other somachords and kuria and that kinda stuff, I'm not gonna bother with Vallis somas and mem frags. Nothing in the plains has been on the same scale in painfulness
We All Lift Together is such a banger of an opening... and then the Vallis falls flat once you move around in it.
As someone who was a founder and played this game a ton early on, some of the content later just lost me and I quit. If I can't understand what I'm supposed to be doing without watching 3-4 hours of youtube videos, your game design needs help. It just feels so scattered to me and half the late game knowledge you have to get from other people instead of the game. I play once in a while but I just do the regular old missions and dream about the days when we could still wallrun.
It's interesting seeing this. I got out of warframe shortly after Fortuna. I was burned out of grinding the reputation for another bunch of factions. So it's interesting to see what I missed.
I rmb the duviri have bounties so if they could slip in some zariman bounty type thingy or completely ditch the way they design a mission in a tight space.
Zariman bounties is probably the most enjoyable bounties I had done, compared to all open world ones, probably because it utilize what it is actually good at.
Is like DE trying to make a tight space missions in a wide space area, which will absolutely not work, at all. No fixes could fix that.
Ditch away the problems of the updates like bugs, the fundamental clash is just there, as none of the bounties I found myself enjoy with, simply because they just feel...Like not about content islands or something else, it is just not fitted well...
Like we think about open world, we think about exploration, bounties that circle around this concept will be nice, find caches, steal relics, or sabotaging their crucial gears, or simply help someone that is outside the plains, or unearthing treasures that reward something special that is not obtainable by grinding, or even more simple, look how elden ring handle their open worlds, not to copy the concepts, but the designs behind it, gain understanding about it, and turn what you have learned about it into real actions.
Not those defense ish missions where I deem to be unfit in such open world missions.
Although I don't mind content islands, I just enjoy what the game throw at me and give reviews and thoughts, if it is a connected design but bad fundamentally, whether it is a content island or not, it is no difference for me.
Zariman had proved a point. Their bounty designs for open worlds only work for tight spaces.
A faster mission, a more simple objectives like only 1 objectives available, faster daily max standing, an optimal full tryhard loudout with t5 bounty, could let your standing maxed within 10mins, whether the player turned back or not, the experience is there.
I feel like they're stepping into the correct direction now where they should stick with what they originally excels at. They simply tried too hard to make something that clash together, work.
Donno about the duviri but they should completely ditch the mission design of the past, and actually come up with something very well fit into this duviri aka another attempt in open world.
With the first glance of gameplay of it I can already see some big changes as it clearly take reference from how roguelike/roguelite works.
Hope it is a success.
40:14 There are still Orphix Venom nodes for that game mode in Railjack and yes the actual event is gone
When I hear open world I usually think of the genre, so that was my expectation, but all we got was ordinary mission but it really big and looks unique and has a terrible terrible grind I loathe.
I also don't like those really gimmicky features they add. I like when I have something new that I can work towards, usually within the game's core gameplay like gettn new warframes and weapons and mods, but stuff like Necramech is a requirement for some content and it's an entirely new progression to level and mod and grind equipment for and yikes. All for a feature I don't even care about in the slightest. Same with Archwings, same with Railjack. Stuff like this made me alt+f4 and uninstall for a while.
40:09 necramechs are useful for keeping cetus door open :D that's what they're there for xD haha
I'm really sad how many people make videos about "bad" things in warframe when the game is so good compared to other games like Destiny 2 (that I have 5k hours in) warframe has an actual reason to grind missions and you are rewarded for planning ahead. Also as the game is free you literally don't lose anything when the content has a rough start unlike paid DLC's which have only become more and more expensive for the same crap. (Again talking about Destiny 2)
Destiny is straight abuse compared to WF on more ways than just bugs/gameplay. The manipulative nature is how you know you can't trust it.
People are making these "bad" videos because they want them to be fix also you do loose your time and enjoyment of the game when it comes out broken and buggy and so Grindy that people give up before reaching 1/4 of the content. Its gotten to a point where most of the content creators have given up on the game.