I knew exactly where you were going with this video before I clicked on it! My dad explained the same thing to me about the pistol he carried, a hk p7m8. Barrel integrated into the frame, and it's even gas operated. I wish more modern pistols would improve upon these operating principles but that's just me.
@esh325 It is not a matter of opinion. it is a fact of physics. The added movement of the more complex locked breech design is going to subtract from the potential accuracy of the simpler blowback design. There is no avoiding this fact. Blowback guns are not used in competitions because they do not meet the criteria for most competitions and they are not comfortable to shoot, but in freestyle single shot accuracy events blowback pistols used to be seen quite often.
Actually the moment the blowback gun fires you feel no recoil, the force acts on the breech face accelerating the slide but the return spring is only weakly imparting that to the frame of the gun. The kick is when the slide reaches full rearward travel and suddenly stops, that's one big jolt.
I have an old "off brand" no name brand 380 that is like the PPK here. It's as accurate at 20yards as it is at point blank because of that barrel being anchored to the frame like that. I love that design.
@esh325 Also, there are examples that vary from the norm of the fixed barrel but the vast majority of blowback pistols use the fixed barrel design. In the Colt's and the Beretta the barrel is not fixed but the mechanics are still the same. The barrel is still locked in a horizontal position and does not lock to the slide.
Despite inherent accuracy, I'd say the tiny thin front sight and tiny opening in the rear sight tend to increase accuracy on the PPK more than the design of the action. If it had a .140 thick front sight and a .180 rear, it'd be harder to shoot it more accurately than the Kahr with OEM sights.
I've always thought my PPK was the most accurate pistol I have. I've taken visiting foreigners to the range a couple of times and in both cases the first time they have ever shot a gun they hit dead center on the target on their first shot using my PPK.
Cobra and Jimenez work on the same design, the differance being they are single action striker fire with a frame made of ZAMAC (not to be confused with whiter metal or sometimes called pot metal) in order to keep the weight and cost down. The Walther is a single/double action hammer fire made of steel requiring higher cost tooling, thus the price differance.
the sights on the locked breach and the blow back are attached to the slide. Both move and have tolerance that can change alignment. the lock breach barrel is aligned to the slid on the front and the frame on the back so tolerance errors has two effects. The error of both end can be aligned to the frame axis or the errors can be on opposite sides with changes the angle of the barrel axis to the frame center line. Angle is by far the worst error since distance increases the error at the target.
So I have owned both a Walther PPK and Sig P230 and they were both very accurate. The Walther was a bit more difficult to shoot well due to the long somewhat heavy double action trigger pull and tiny sights. Yet if I took my time very accurate due to the fixed barrel design. Sold them both. Now the Sig was easier to shoot well due to the trigger, sights and slightly longer sight radius. Today close to that size is my Sig P365 that is easier than either of those to shoot well due to better sights, trigger etc. Despite this I think they are both have an inherent accuracy advantage due to their fixed barrels. The P365 is in almost every way a better EDC pistol because of ammunition, capacity reliability and I just shoot mine well. Thanks for the video.
If you adopt blow back recoil for a 9mm or higher the slide needs to be heavy or you risk injury from the escaping gases. I.e. high point ugly slide is huge for that reason. Locked breech or even rotating barrel or even rotating bolts are designed to keep the gases in the barrel long enough until pressure has dropped down to safe levels, it also ensures the projectile has enough pressure to travel. It also helps reduce gun weight because you don't need a heavy slide. That's why bolt action is so accurate and safe.
Now THIS... is weapons education! Great job Sir! I just learned more about weapons in one of your 6 min vids than 6 hours of another so called "education" channel.
You did a great video, it was very thorough and in depth, I learned a lot. I was wondering, are locked breech firearms recoil operated or blowback operated thanks. I really like your shirt. I have always loved watching the coyote chase the road runner.
Thanks for the information, It confirmed my belief on locked breach models versus the blowback. I can shoot my blowback far better at 25 yards than any of my locked breach models, and often wondered if the tilt barrel was moving slightly before the bullet exited the barrel. You just confirmed that belief. Thanks for being an expert. P.S. say Hi to Gary for me.
William S Front sight training is spot on. I recently acquired the PT809 hammer fired from Taurus, and focusing on just the front sight at 25 yards, I peppered my 9"paper plate. The guy next to me said, he wouldn't like to be in front of me. Trajectory is the key, because being off 1/2 of a degree = inches away from the target by the time the bullet gets there. So keeping your pistol straight is essential for accuracy. Thanks.
A blowback design is for small caliber's since the only thing keeping the muzzle "locked" is the recoil spring/slide weight. If used in a larger caliber pistol the recoil spring/slide weight would need to be very strong/heavy to keep the breeched closed long enough for pressure to reach safe level before allowing the slide to move rearward to eject the case. A locked breech design keeps the barrel/slide locked together until barrel pressure drops to safe levels before allowing breech to open.
I know what you mean -- the first shock when you start using a Walther is how AMAZINGLY accurate it can be. I could hit four inch groupings at fifty yards with it, and I'm only a mediocre shot. The only other pistols I've ever been that accurate with are the Ruger MK II and the CZ 75 SP-01 tactical. Walthers are awesome! Great video.
Bersa Thunder is a wickedly accurate little 380. Poor man's PPK. My SIG 250 is even better at 25 yds+ but you have to master that trigger (or be a revolver shooter).
Yes, I also have the Thunder and I can hit pretty much anything with it. It's bad enough that the gun is so well done especially for the price, I'd be willing to sell my custom vintage Ruger MkII Target before I'll let go of the Bersa.
Very informative, excellent presentation, good points made and explained.. Both of the weapons you reviewed are NOT target pistols. To put it very pragmatically, both are 'belly' guns, i.e they are used for very close range personal defense. Accuracy is certainly not of primary concern.
@jhc500 go to dayattherange dot kom and search for "380 shootout." You will find a range comparison I did on the two guns. I need to turn it into a video sometime.
There are lock breech designs where the barrel does not move and is also fixed to the frame, Desert Eagle comes to mind. So it would be more accurate to say that accurate designs have the barrel fixed to the frame rather than saying simple blowback is mpre accurate. Another thing to consider is that simple blowback guns use weaker rounds and direct less energy forward since there's only a spring holding the breech closed, so you end up firing the bullet with lower energy and receive weaker and more controllable recoil (acc to Nuton's law) so it's easier to control and aim.
a long time ago , a friend told me , after seeing me shoot my venerable .22 PP "get rid of your rifle ". my PP , my PPK and my VP-70 ( with a Wolff striker spring ) are very hard to beat !! I agree with you 110%
XD 9 Compact. I bought a Glock 19 gen3, and the grip is just a little to big sometimes. I thought I would be able to overcome it with training, but looking back, I should've went with the XD. The store I was at didn't have the compact, only the full service and sub compact, so I went with my 2nd option, the Glock. I also transitioned over from a 1911, so the grip size, angle, and safety will make for an easier transition for you.
YOU are right Walther PPK's are an excellent design and way ahead of their time by years and years I have had mine for years it very accurate, more so than this shooter, I have shot it regularly and it has never malfunctioned.
good vid,, i was wounding why my first gun, a Hi-Point was so accurate to other guns i shoot, now that I know something about guns, The Hi-point was Blow back, and was awesome, very accurate, and what ever you heard the c9 I had was reliable as hell, it was more accurate than my sig Sp2022. Now I know why, Thanks for the excellent infor. thats why i like you tube so much, lots of infor and especially from Nutfancy and Hickoc 45, 2 of my favorites. Thxz again!!!!
+Natale Criscimagna Guns are only as accurate as you are. If you cant shoot well then you wont be accurate. Most all guns are going to be accurate. Dont know why some people believe otherwise. There can be factors that make it harder to shoot well, for example i also had the SP2022 as well but i couldnt get used to the high bore axis with any Sig i shot. But as soon as i bought a G19 i shot so much better just because of the ergonomics of it. The slide is so close to the top of your hand its almost in line with your arm which made it easier for me to get used to
The very 1st time I heard the term "locked breech" was during the late 1990's or beginning of the early 2000's.My 1st pistol purchased was a "blow back" in 1995.About a year later,A friend had got a Sig P226.I pulled the slide back & had it locked in place and notice the barrel tilted upward abit(I thought "unique").
your missing other lock types with this video, I personally use a Beretta PX4 which uses a rotating barrel locking system, similiar to the blowback where it stays straight but the lock rotates the barrel taking up some of the recoil as well.
Love my PPK/S. It is so accurate that it makes me feel like I'm better shot than I actually am. You said something in another video about not carrying a PPK with the safety off. Does this apply to my PPK/S? If this helps the serial number is 150xxxS.
Nice video, it is then acueste to say that all fixed barrel pistols are blowback and “floating” barrel pistols are locked breech?, my question goes directly to the fact that here in México we can own .380 ACP pistols, one of them is the Glock 25 in .380, same size as G19, but when I dissassemble my G25 it is what you showed here as locked breech however, it some internet blogs I’ve debe people saying it is blowback, I think even Hickok mentioned it is blowback as well. I know this is an old video but I hope you or someone else can help me clarify this. Thank you all.
the're all blowback, but some are delayed, the tilting barrel is one method of delaying the action (has the added bonus of being lighter) the entire glock line is delayed blowback, but the pp series and some of browning's early guns (and the numerous European copies) are simple blowback, fixed barrel, relying on the mass of the slide to keep propellant gasses going the right direction though there are some fixed barrel designs that are delayed, just to confuse you
whoops sorry yankee, called you Nuts fancy, so there are 3 of the most infor on you tube I like, your right up there, and great sense of humor. lol Thhz for very good infor again
I carried a P64 Polish 9x18 for near 20 years daily in my pocket. It was extremely accurate. Finally the clip got loose from years of carry. I will probably try and order another P64 in the near future. As long as I hold the clip in tight with a pinky finger it runs fine , but will jamb if not held. It's use is for protection of livestock and me and my family. I just don't trust it anymore and am toting a revolver again.
So the BLOWBACK DESIGN is why 007 can shoot a helicopter out of the sky from 200 yards with his PPK!! OK. What I once thought as being totally preposterous is completely plausible now!!
I so want a Sig 232, but just can't justify spending $700.00 for a 380. I once had a PPK (early post war model) & it was a tack driver. Also had a Bersa Storm. Also very accurate.
Since I don't know much about blowback vs lock systems, I have a dumb question. When there is an unfired cartridge in the chamber of my PPK/S and I want to eject it, I pull the slide back and the round remains in the chamber. My understanding is the extractor should work the same as any other handgun. Is it broken? I haven't fired it because I have doubts about it's function check. Should I replace the extractor spring? Thanks.
A good, and more pertinent topic for CCW, and/or 'belly' guns,IMHO, would be an informed review of the safety systems of these weapons. These weapons NEED an EXCELLENT safety system. A safety system that absolutely prevents accidental firing, but is easily armed, and whose status can be determined tactily in a pocket or the dark. Walther PPK platform does this almost perfectly. The same safety system was employed in theWalther P38, and in the more modern Beretta 92 and sexy PX4 Storm.
I love my PPK/S. It is surprisingly accurate for a pocket pistol. My only gripe is the weight, since it is all stainless steel. However I know I can shoot this for a lifetime without worry. Plastic framed pistols can have a problem with bulging.
My first handgun was a FEG PA-63 in 9x18 Makarov, which is a Hungarian clone of the PPK. Seeing the internals of the PPK close-up makes me laugh because of how damn similar the two guns really are. The PA-63 is literally just a 9x18mm PPK with dimensions that are just different enough to prevent off-the-shelf interchangeability of parts.
Nice video, One of the main reasons that the PPK shoots straight is that it is a well made gun. Yes, its barrel is staitionary on the frame, but other guns are just as accurate as well. I disagree that the slide on a PPK does not take up any recoil; it certainly does, since in order to eject a shell and cock the spring... energy is required and that energy is negated by the work needed to cycle the gun. However, I do agree that the lock-breech type autos tend to absorb more recoil energy.
An update to my previous post. If you've ever seen or held a Hi Point pistol you would understand why they have such large and heavy slides. They are "blowback" pistols in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. They need the extra "mass" in their slide to keep the breech closed. The only other option would be a recoil spring so strong it would be very hard (if not impossible) to overcome when racking the slide. BTW, Hi Point does have a .380 ACP which is also a blowback design.
There is one design almost as accurate as the blowback: Roller delayed blowback action. Works with 9 mm Luger and .45 ACP : my Heckler und Koch P9S for example... But when the play is eleminated until the bullet has left the barrel , SIG - Petter- Systems are also accurate enough like my USP Match in.45 ACP
Military channel just aired a piece ("Tales of the Gun" I believe) about the advanced accuracy of P.28. I wonder how far in the line of succession and advancement the PPK is. Googleable I know, just a shared thought.
Plain blowback works well with smaller calibers. Anything stronger than .380 (and 9mm makarov) will require either locked breech, or bolt too heavy to be practical for pistol. Hi-point makes .45 blowback pistol - while simple, its slide is big as brick. The required bolt mass isnt much of a problem with smg's, so most smg's are plain blowback (including the latest designs) with big heavy chunk of metal as a bolt.
Yes indeed. Of course a fixed barrel pistol made by Walther tends to be more accurate than a moving barrel design (even from the same Walther company). But... why striker fired modern pistols, even in 380, are locked breech? Because of the +P ammo? NOT! They need to be locked because of the struggle between the extended recoil spring and the compressed slide contained striker spring (like on the LUGER). That's why we will never see a 22 LR Glock (unless they use something like the frame mounted striker spring, like the FN 25 ACP). Despite the Walther model 6, anything from Walther is top quality and PPK is an 80 years old design. A friend of mine had one and its loaded chamber indicator was so dirty that the slide was not closing properly. After cleaning, that PPK returned to its original condition: a perfect and flawless pistol.
augusta keebler Why not use an actual bullseye competition pistol? If you did you'd be obliged to shoot one handed and wear those weird magnification and blinder glasses though.
yeah and there's also the fact that you can't have a caliber higher than the .380 for the blowback design (ex 9 mm Luger or .40 S&W ) because the recoil spring would be so strong you couldn't operate it to chamber the first round...
Not just hi point ive also seen other guns with 9mm and higher that have blow back action design..and the slide when lubed is not hard to operate at all
Hate to say this but you need to really understand recoil. Your simplifying it without actually pointing out what are the issues of importance. The explosion presses in all directions uniformly. It boils down to the energy imparted to the bullet must be balanced with the exact same energy imparted to the hand of the gun holder. The recoil force is simply the rate at which this energy is absorbed by the hand. Blow back guns with less mass moving transfer the energy to the hand quicker then a lock breach gun since more mass is moving. (NOTE finite element analyses all use energy balance approach, accurate when done right)
Hi-Points are all blowback even the 45ACP! That's why the slides are so large and heavy but it's also the main reason those cheap things are actually decently accurate.
My favorite stationary/fixed barrel, locked breech design is the Luger which can be fantastically accurate. It was also not as successful and adaptable as the Browning tilting barrel design. My PP and PPK are also very accurate and a whole more reliable and easy to carry. .22 caliber target pistols can achieve great accuracy with their fixed barrel and simple blow back actions. What the hell, I like them all.
My CCW instructor told me the reason they invented the tilting barrel was to eliminate feeding/jamming issues. I havent heard you say anything in you videos about the PPK jamming on you..but that's old technology. In self defense, Ill sacrifice accuracy for reliability all day..
it has nothing to do with feeding or extraction and thus reliability. Its simply a means to better handle the recoil from hotter, more powerful cartridges without beating up the shooter or the gun. Locked breech pistols jam just as often as blowback pistols. if you want ueber reliability....go with a revolver.
I knew exactly where you were going with this video before I clicked on it! My dad explained the same thing to me about the pistol he carried, a hk p7m8. Barrel integrated into the frame, and it's even gas operated. I wish more modern pistols would improve upon these operating principles but that's just me.
The best tutorial on blowback compared to locked breach. Nice work.
I have owned XD's but I got rid of all of them. I just did not find them to be worth the money.
@esh325 It is not a matter of opinion. it is a fact of physics. The added movement of the more complex locked breech design is going to subtract from the potential accuracy of the simpler blowback design. There is no avoiding this fact.
Blowback guns are not used in competitions because they do not meet the criteria for most competitions and they are not comfortable to shoot, but in freestyle single shot accuracy events blowback pistols used to be seen quite often.
"A good gun never hurts." That's quite a statement.
Actually the moment the blowback gun fires you feel no recoil, the force acts on the breech face accelerating the slide but the return spring is only weakly imparting that to the frame of the gun. The kick is when the slide reaches full rearward travel and suddenly stops, that's one big jolt.
I have an old "off brand" no name brand 380 that is like the PPK here. It's as accurate at 20yards as it is at point blank because of that barrel being anchored to the frame like that. I love that design.
@esh325 Also, there are examples that vary from the norm of the fixed barrel but the vast majority of blowback pistols use the fixed barrel design. In the Colt's and the Beretta the barrel is not fixed but the mechanics are still the same. The barrel is still locked in a horizontal position and does not lock to the slide.
I finally understand the difference between the two animals. Thanks for making this video.
PPK has been on my list for a while. thanks for sharing the differences
thank you,
professional, educational.
thank you for the lesson in blow back vs locked breech.
Excellent video. Just purchased one for my wife as a carry weapon. She love it.
Despite inherent accuracy, I'd say the tiny thin front sight and tiny opening in the rear sight tend to increase accuracy on the PPK more than the design of the action. If it had a .140 thick front sight and a .180 rear, it'd be harder to shoot it more accurately than the Kahr with OEM sights.
I've always thought my PPK was the most accurate pistol I have. I've taken visiting foreigners to the range a couple of times and in both cases the first time they have ever shot a gun they hit dead center on the target on their first shot using my PPK.
Great info so thanks for sharing. Been wanting one of these for a long time so I'll probably order one.
Cobra and Jimenez work on the same design, the differance being they are single action striker fire with a frame made of ZAMAC (not to be confused with whiter metal or sometimes called pot metal) in order to keep the weight and cost down. The Walther is a single/double action hammer fire made of steel requiring higher cost tooling, thus the price differance.
the sights on the locked breach and the blow back are attached to the slide. Both move and have tolerance that can change alignment. the lock breach barrel is aligned to the slid on the front and the frame on the back so tolerance errors has two effects. The error of both end can be aligned to the frame axis or the errors can be on opposite sides with changes the angle of the barrel axis to the frame center line. Angle is by far the worst error since distance increases the error at the target.
Very informative about something I wasn't very familiar with. Thanks man.
So I have owned both a Walther PPK and Sig P230 and they were both very accurate. The Walther was a bit more difficult to shoot well due to the long somewhat heavy double action trigger pull and tiny sights. Yet if I took my time very accurate due to the fixed barrel design. Sold them both. Now the Sig was easier to shoot well due to the trigger, sights and slightly longer sight radius.
Today close to that size is my Sig P365 that is easier than either of those to shoot well due to better sights, trigger etc. Despite this I think they are both have an inherent accuracy advantage due to their fixed barrels.
The P365 is in almost every way a better EDC pistol because of ammunition, capacity reliability and I just shoot mine well.
Thanks for the video.
If you adopt blow back recoil for a 9mm or higher the slide needs to be heavy or you risk injury from the escaping gases. I.e. high point ugly slide is huge for that reason. Locked breech or even rotating barrel or even rotating bolts are designed to keep the gases in the barrel long enough until pressure has dropped down to safe levels, it also ensures the projectile has enough pressure to travel. It also helps reduce gun weight because you don't need a heavy slide. That's why bolt action is so accurate and safe.
Seems like the same would hold true for a revolver, wouldn't it?
Exactly
Now THIS... is weapons education! Great job Sir! I just learned more about weapons in one of your 6 min vids than 6 hours of another so called "education" channel.
Interesting... I learned something new this morning. Thanks!
You did a great video, it was very thorough and in depth, I learned a lot. I was wondering, are locked breech firearms recoil operated or blowback operated thanks. I really like your shirt. I have always loved watching the coyote chase the road runner.
Thanks for this very informative video. I just purchased a PPK and was pleased to watch.
The PPK is a gun ever collector should own.
TheYankeeMarshal I couldnt find my original comment but it makes me smile and i get this warm tingly feeling in my pants when you reply.
Like Chris Matthews and Obama?
Sorry, just saw this. :)
Since the barrel is static and cannot move all of the energy is delivered directly into the grip and slide.
Thanks for the information, It confirmed my belief on locked breach models versus the blowback. I can shoot my blowback far better at 25 yards than any of my locked breach models, and often wondered if the tilt barrel was moving slightly before the bullet exited the barrel. You just confirmed that belief. Thanks for being an expert. P.S. say Hi to Gary for me.
William S Front sight training is spot on. I recently acquired the PT809 hammer fired from Taurus, and focusing on just the front sight at 25 yards, I peppered my 9"paper plate. The guy next to me said, he wouldn't like to be in front of me. Trajectory is the key, because being off 1/2 of a degree = inches away from the target by the time the bullet gets there. So keeping your pistol straight is essential for accuracy. Thanks.
A blowback design is for small caliber's since the only thing keeping the muzzle "locked" is the recoil spring/slide weight. If used in a larger caliber pistol the recoil spring/slide weight would need to be very strong/heavy to keep the breeched closed long enough for pressure to reach safe level before allowing the slide to move rearward to eject the case. A locked breech design keeps the barrel/slide locked together until barrel pressure drops to safe levels before allowing breech to open.
I have both gun designs and I agree with every point you made in this video. Good vid.
I know what you mean -- the first shock when you start using a Walther is how AMAZINGLY accurate it can be. I could hit four inch groupings at fifty yards with it, and I'm only a mediocre shot. The only other pistols I've ever been that accurate with are the Ruger MK II and the CZ 75 SP-01 tactical. Walthers are awesome! Great video.
Blowback does not dissipate recoil nearly as well.
Bersa Thunder is a wickedly accurate little 380. Poor man's PPK.
My SIG 250 is even better at 25 yds+ but you have to master that trigger (or be a revolver shooter).
Yes, I also have the Thunder and I can hit pretty much anything with it.
It's bad enough that the gun is so well done especially for the price, I'd be willing to sell my custom vintage Ruger MkII Target before I'll let go of the Bersa.
Very informative, excellent presentation, good points made and explained..
Both of the weapons you reviewed are NOT target pistols. To put it very pragmatically, both are 'belly' guns, i.e they are used for very close range personal defense. Accuracy is certainly not of primary concern.
@jhc500 go to dayattherange dot kom and search for "380 shootout." You will find a range comparison I did on the two guns. I need to turn it into a video sometime.
There are lock breech designs where the barrel does not move and is also fixed to the frame, Desert Eagle comes to mind.
So it would be more accurate to say that accurate designs have the barrel fixed to the frame rather than saying simple blowback is mpre accurate.
Another thing to consider is that simple blowback guns use weaker rounds and direct less energy forward since there's only a spring holding the breech closed, so you end up firing the bullet with lower energy and receive weaker and more controllable recoil (acc to Nuton's law) so it's easier to control and aim.
a long time ago , a friend told me , after seeing me shoot my venerable .22 PP "get rid of your rifle ".
my PP , my PPK and my VP-70 ( with a Wolff striker spring ) are very hard to beat !! I agree with you 110%
hey, don't blame this video. this video was just minding it's own business and you came along and bothered it.
XD 9 Compact. I bought a Glock 19 gen3, and the grip is just a little to big sometimes. I thought I would be able to overcome it with training, but looking back, I should've went with the XD. The store I was at didn't have the compact, only the full service and sub compact, so I went with my 2nd option, the Glock. I also transitioned over from a 1911, so the grip size, angle, and safety will make for an easier transition for you.
Excellent explanation. Well done.
It takes a little planning to overcome the weight.
YOU are right Walther PPK's are an excellent design and way ahead of their time by years and years I have had mine for years it very accurate, more so than this shooter, I have shot it regularly and it has never malfunctioned.
Great video, Thanks. In fact, it helped me doing a school assignment
vertical = horizontal? mind = blown.
love your vids man!
good vid,, i was wounding why my first gun, a Hi-Point was so accurate to other guns i shoot, now that I know something about guns, The Hi-point was Blow back, and was awesome, very accurate, and what ever you heard the c9 I had was reliable as hell, it was more accurate than my sig Sp2022. Now I know why, Thanks for the excellent infor. thats why i like you tube so much, lots of infor and especially from Nutfancy and Hickoc 45, 2 of my favorites. Thxz again!!!!
They are also large with a very good grip. It makes them easy to control.
+Natale Criscimagna Guns are only as accurate as you are. If you cant shoot well then you wont be accurate. Most all guns are going to be accurate. Dont know why some people believe otherwise. There can be factors that make it harder to shoot well, for example i also had the SP2022 as well but i couldnt get used to the high bore axis with any Sig i shot. But as soon as i bought a G19 i shot so much better just because of the ergonomics of it. The slide is so close to the top of your hand its almost in line with your arm which made it easier for me to get used to
I had a sp2022, awesome gun in 40 cal. Too big for conceal though for me. I a pretty good shot with any gun. Guess I got a good eye.
I do miss my signature now.
I found the dumb American consumers of firearms. Hi-Points are junk. They are throwaway guns.
The very 1st time I heard the term "locked breech" was during the late 1990's or beginning of the early 2000's.My 1st pistol purchased was a "blow back" in 1995.About a year later,A friend had got a Sig P226.I pulled the slide back & had it locked in place and notice the barrel tilted upward abit(I thought "unique").
your missing other lock types with this video, I personally use a Beretta PX4 which uses a rotating barrel locking system, similiar to the blowback where it stays straight but the lock rotates the barrel taking up some of the recoil as well.
Uig
@iRockGlock They are both pretty much as reliable as the quality of the work that goes into making them allows.
Love my PPK/S. It is so accurate that it makes me feel like I'm better shot than I actually am. You said something in another video about not carrying a PPK with the safety off. Does this apply to my PPK/S? If this helps the serial number is 150xxxS.
I have no idea what you are asking since you did not reply to a comment.
Yet again very informative. First time I hear of a blowback.
Nice video, it is then acueste to say that all fixed barrel pistols are blowback and “floating” barrel pistols are locked breech?, my question goes directly to the fact that here in México we can own .380 ACP pistols, one of them is the Glock 25 in .380, same size as G19, but when I dissassemble my G25 it is what you showed here as locked breech however, it some internet blogs I’ve debe people saying it is blowback, I think even Hickok mentioned it is blowback as well. I know this is an old video but I hope you or someone else can help me clarify this. Thank you all.
the're all blowback, but some are delayed, the tilting barrel is one method of delaying the action (has the added bonus of being lighter)
the entire glock line is delayed blowback, but the pp series and some of browning's early guns (and the numerous European copies) are simple blowback, fixed barrel, relying on the mass of the slide to keep propellant gasses going the right direction
though there are some fixed barrel designs that are delayed, just to confuse you
I should probably by some Ed Hardy t-shirts that are three sizes too small to try and distract from that fact.
whoops sorry yankee, called you Nuts fancy, so there are 3 of the most infor on you tube I like, your right up there, and great sense of humor. lol Thhz for very good infor again
Well explained. Thank you.
I carried a P64 Polish 9x18 for near 20 years daily in my pocket. It was extremely accurate. Finally the clip got loose from years of carry. I will probably try and order another P64 in the near future. As long as I hold the clip in tight with a pinky finger it runs fine , but will jamb if not held. It's use is for protection of livestock and me and my family. I just don't trust it anymore and am toting a revolver again.
You got it. Thank you much you guys. Plus so much more
So the BLOWBACK DESIGN is why 007 can shoot a helicopter out of the sky from 200 yards with his PPK!! OK. What I once thought as being totally preposterous is completely plausible now!!
He didn't use a PPK in that instance. He had an AR-7, and he shot the pilot, who dropped a bomb as he was shot, which caused the chopper to explode.
Do not apologize for your shirt. I have waited since I was a kid for that coyote to finally get that damned road-runner! Go Wile E.
I so want a Sig 232, but just can't justify spending $700.00 for a 380. I once had a PPK (early post war model) & it was a tack driver. Also had a Bersa Storm. Also very accurate.
Since I don't know much about blowback vs lock systems, I have a dumb question. When there is an unfired cartridge in the chamber of my PPK/S and I want to eject it, I pull the slide back and the round remains in the chamber. My understanding is the extractor should work the same as any other handgun. Is it broken? I haven't fired it because I have doubts about it's function check. Should I replace the extractor spring? Thanks.
I have heard of them but have no experience with them.
A good, and more pertinent topic for CCW, and/or 'belly' guns,IMHO, would be an informed review of the safety systems of these weapons. These weapons NEED an EXCELLENT safety system. A safety system that absolutely prevents accidental firing, but is easily armed, and whose status can be determined tactily in a pocket or the dark.
Walther PPK platform does this almost perfectly. The same safety system was employed in theWalther P38, and in the more modern Beretta 92 and sexy PX4 Storm.
I am looking for an older one right now myself.
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
I love my PPK/S. It is surprisingly accurate for a pocket pistol. My only gripe is the weight, since it is all stainless steel. However I know I can shoot this for a lifetime without worry. Plastic framed pistols can have a problem with bulging.
Good explanation. I understand now.
@mikethenascarfan Yeah, they are Hogue tulip wood.
I liked your response video. I added it to my video.I assume you mean the Zombie one.
There are cool. I want to find an Interarms one now.
Not a huge XD fan here. Mainly because of the design of the slide at the rear.
My first handgun was a FEG PA-63 in 9x18 Makarov, which is a Hungarian clone of the PPK. Seeing the internals of the PPK close-up makes me laugh because of how damn similar the two guns really are. The PA-63 is literally just a 9x18mm PPK with dimensions that are just different enough to prevent off-the-shelf interchangeability of parts.
Another really good video. Thanks!
Nice video, One of the main reasons that the PPK shoots straight is that it is a well made gun. Yes, its barrel is staitionary on the frame, but other guns are just as accurate as well.
I disagree that the slide on a PPK does not take up any recoil; it certainly does, since in order to eject a shell and cock the spring... energy is required and that energy is negated by the work needed to cycle the gun. However, I do agree that the lock-breech type autos tend to absorb more recoil energy.
That done be because I is right good with them there explainin' words.
An update to my previous post. If you've ever seen or held a Hi Point pistol you would understand why they have such large and heavy slides. They are "blowback" pistols in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. They need the extra "mass" in their slide to keep the breech closed. The only other option would be a recoil spring so strong it would be very hard (if not impossible) to overcome when racking the slide. BTW, Hi Point does have a .380 ACP which is also a blowback design.
@mikethenascarfan If you look towards the middle of the page you will see it on the video you responded to.
Cool vid yank, I must say that Walther's ergonomics are HK like with a glock price. Nice ass trigger on my PPQ as well
Compare your comparison tests with the Boberg 9mm XR9-S which has a rotating barrel and is very accurate.
There is one design almost as accurate as the blowback: Roller delayed blowback action. Works with 9 mm Luger and .45 ACP : my Heckler und Koch P9S for example... But when the play is eleminated until the bullet has left the barrel , SIG - Petter- Systems are also accurate enough like my USP Match in.45 ACP
Military channel just aired a piece ("Tales of the Gun" I believe) about the advanced accuracy of P.28. I wonder how far in the line of succession and advancement the PPK is. Googleable I know, just a shared thought.
For the same reason Walther PPs are so accurate! And the same reason the Steyr GB is so insanely accurate.
Love your channel; just subscribed.
I've always heard people comment that the slide on a straight blow back is always a good bit heavier than that of a locked breech. Why is that?
spiff2268 To add weight to keep the slide closed long enough for pressure to lower to a safe level.
Plain blowback works well with smaller calibers. Anything stronger than .380 (and 9mm makarov) will require either locked breech, or bolt too heavy to be practical for pistol. Hi-point makes .45 blowback pistol - while simple, its slide is big as brick. The required bolt mass isnt much of a problem with smg's, so most smg's are plain blowback (including the latest designs) with big heavy chunk of metal as a bolt.
Yes indeed. Of course a fixed barrel pistol made by Walther tends to be more accurate than a moving barrel design (even from the same Walther company).
But... why striker fired modern pistols, even in 380, are locked breech? Because of the +P ammo? NOT! They need to be locked because of the struggle between the extended recoil spring and the compressed slide contained striker spring (like on the LUGER). That's why we will never see a 22 LR Glock (unless they use something like the frame mounted striker spring, like the FN 25 ACP).
Despite the Walther model 6, anything from Walther is top quality and PPK is an 80 years old design. A friend of mine had one and its loaded chamber indicator was so dirty that the slide was not closing properly. After cleaning, that PPK returned to its original condition: a perfect and flawless pistol.
@vashguud I had to also. I picked up one tonight.
3:45 movement on a HORIZONTAL axis, I believe.
In mechanical design they are very similar.
very good presentation
I wish more 9x18 makarov chambered blow back operated firearms would be created. Great mix of power and accuracy.
The grip safety is the worst feature of the gun IMHO.
Must be very few blowback handguns. Are there any in larger than the 380's?
These are close range self defense guns if I want accuracy I would use my target pistol .
augusta keebler Why not use an actual bullseye competition pistol? If you did you'd be obliged to shoot one handed and wear those weird magnification and blinder glasses though.
Really informative vid, I have a ppk/s 380 and enjoy shooting it, I find it works best with 102 gr jhp Remington gold saber
yeah and there's also the fact that you can't have a caliber higher than the .380 for the blowback design (ex 9 mm Luger or .40 S&W ) because the recoil spring would be so strong you couldn't operate it to chamber the first round...
Hi Point 45s are blow back, and accurate
Didn't know that. Thanks for the info :)
... and there's also the H&K VP70 too... my bad (hee hee)
Natale Criscimagna The slide is also huge.
Not just hi point ive also seen other guns with 9mm and higher that have blow back action design..and the slide when lubed is not hard to operate at all
Hate to say this but you need to really understand recoil. Your simplifying it without actually pointing out what are the issues of importance. The explosion presses in all directions uniformly. It boils down to the energy imparted to the bullet must be balanced with the exact same energy imparted to the hand of the gun holder. The recoil force is simply the rate at which this energy is absorbed by the hand. Blow back guns with less mass moving transfer the energy to the hand quicker then a lock breach gun since more mass is moving. (NOTE finite element analyses all use energy balance approach, accurate when done right)
Hi-Points are all blowback even the 45ACP! That's why the slides are so large and heavy but it's also the main reason those cheap things are actually decently accurate.
My favorite stationary/fixed barrel, locked breech design is the Luger which can be fantastically accurate. It was also not as successful and adaptable as the Browning tilting barrel design. My PP and PPK are also very accurate and a whole more reliable and easy to carry. .22 caliber target pistols can achieve great accuracy with their fixed barrel and simple blow back actions. What the hell, I like them all.
Very good video !
Great post,thanks!
My CCW instructor told me the reason they invented the tilting barrel was to eliminate feeding/jamming issues. I havent heard you say anything in you videos about the PPK jamming on you..but that's old technology.
In self defense, Ill sacrifice accuracy for reliability all day..
it has nothing to do with feeding or extraction and thus reliability. Its simply a means to better handle the recoil from hotter, more powerful cartridges without beating up the shooter or the gun. Locked breech pistols jam just as often as blowback pistols.
if you want ueber reliability....go with a revolver.