This is Europe's LATEST High Speed Train - Talgo AVRIL
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Hola a todos!
The new @talgoSpain AVRIL is finally here after years of development and testing. RENFE finally has a flagship train to go out and conquer Europe. But is this train any good?
Let's find out!
Enjoy, and don't forget to like/leave a comment to help the channel :-)
- TRIP INFORMATION -
Date: MAY 21ST 2024
Railway company: @talgoSpain @renfe
Route : Madrid-Chamartin to Gijón
Time : 3h36
Price : 71,80€
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00:00 : Intro
00:35 : Madrid-Chamartin
02:00 : Top competition
02:22 : The Talgo AVRIL
04:26 : Boarding
04:54 : Seat Check
06:01 : Depart / trip info
06:46 : Entertainement system
07:30 : Out of Madrid! Rapido!
08:10 : Breakfast service
08:37 : Issues
09:40 : Valladolid
10:11 : High speed carpet
10:43 : Shake da laptop
10:52 : Another Avril
11:40 : Mid Roll Ads
12:28 : Walkthrough
16:00 : Toilets Time
16:27 : Cambiador
17:27 : Classic line
17:45 : New line through the Cantabrian mountains
19:00 : Faulty... once again
19:26 : Conclusion
20:28 : Outro
19:19 the train that you see from the windows and also in Gijon are narrow gauge (1000mm). The north of Spain truly is a blend of gauges, sadly these lines do not experience much investment so they are bad (although scenic) regional trains and barely good enough commuter trains.
The green train at Oviedo is a tourist luxury service, Transcantabrico or Costa Verde Express
Used the Euskotren & FEVE network in Northern Spain. Travelling from Bilbao to Santander our train stopped at a station & the driver told us we were going no further as he had to take the train back to Bilbao as the train from Santander had been cancelled. We had to get on a minibus that appeared from nowhere, calling at every station until we arrived at a station in the Santander commuter network where we were told to get on another train to complete our journey. It was quite an adventure...
You may love or hate Talgo, but with its gauge-changing capability it's vital for Spain, though this comes at the expense of ride quality (pairs of single wheels don't do their job the same way as the bogies - and that's also why they must be hauled by locos instead of distributed power, which is probably also incompatible with single wheels). Your table was probably (even) more shaky because the seat in front of you looked unoccupied: some weight on it would stabilize it a little. What I don't understand are the Ryanairish seats in the 1st class (or whatever they call it). By the way, is this Talgo also tilting like the previous versions?
Regarding the tilting, no the S-106 wide body coaches don't tilt. The ones that will tilt are the S-107 based on Talgo VII coaches.
@@isgota I assume the S-107s will be deployed on routes with significant stretches of curvy classic track where tilt can have some time benefit, while still being able to keep up with the S-106s on the HS trunk lines.
WIth a conventional bogie/truck attachment point in the centre of its wheelbase, when one wheel drops into a short 1mm depression on the railhead the car body only drops half that as the truck pivots vertically on its other axle. With Talgo tech the car body experiences the full extent of the irregularity. Perhaps one day they'll smooth it out with active suspension. The video didn't mention the 100% level floor throughout the passenger accommodation, with level boarding at every public door from 760mm platforms, standard on Spanish HS lines. This is also enabled by Talgo tech which not only avoids bogies (except end cars and power heads), but uses independently suspended wheels on little stub axles rather than conventional wheelsets linked by axles. The floor of the inter-car passageway actually passes between the tops of the wheel discs. Talgo claims they can also build this train for level boarding at 550mm platforms, again with continuous low floor throughout. Alstom are also sticking with end power car configuration, after their AGV didn't appeal to SNCF. The manufacturer now claims centralisation of the lightweight modern traction equipment is substantially cheaper than distributed throughout the train. It is lighter overall, far less complex, easier to maintain and thus more reliable, they say. Other companies like Stadler have concentrated traction equipment into specific areas on a small number of cars, in some of their designs mostly in the pursuit of continuous low floors along as much of the train as possible.
Considering that, except the fully high speed lines, all remaining railways in Spain are in shambles and train services are practically non-existent, it just doesn't make sense that they decided to build the Northern high speed lines in Iberian gauge... (They were literally built from scratch). It sounds more like they did so to prevent French or Italian competition, since they won't likely invest in Talgo trains (which suck) just to run less profitable services to the North
Avant units (4 car built by CAF) are emus with no power cars but also guage change eg at Burgos when on the Madrid to San Sebastian line.
You get what you pay for. Talgo offered these trains with maintenance 10 million euros cheaper than the rest of the manufacturers. That's really a lot of money for a single train. Obviously going so cheap has consecuences in the final product.
me dan miedo los boogies y la pobre cabina de conducción
@@cellperfecto406 Un conocido vió uno de los boogies doblándose... con eso te lo digo todo.
@@cellperfecto406 este tren no lleva bogies lleva rodales independientes
The "low bid" contracts always seem to cost more in the long run
The major Talgo advantage is: Short 12m body allowing 3.2m wide body (China wide standard) - allow 3+2 in 2nd class & 2+2 in 1st Class - same as China
And all Talgo trains have natural tilting as standard, no pneumatic / electronic sensors / actuation! Just let it tlit!
Low cost, totally reliable tliting!
Great for curvy tracks, like Bordeaux - Nantes - Rennes (Which LeTrain of France also buys this train type!)
Chamartin station has recently started its renovation. it will be in the works for at least a decade
I just noticed when I arrived there, I guess the entire situation is going to be much better. Do you know I'd Atocha will change a lot as well due to the construction works?
@@Trainviking Not as much, the works at Chamartín are quite big, the builing is getting emptied out and rebuilt, only the structure remains. The building is also getting expanded towards the north, so there's extra space for passengers. At 0:55 the white temporary wall on the left closes off the part of the builing on top of tracks 1 to 9, and also at the back at 1:20 is the other temporary wall that blocks the are on top tracks 20 and 21
On the other hand, Atocha is getting 4 new underground platforms for high-speed through trains towards Chamartin and HSL North, and there are also currently restoration works on the canopy in historic part of the station plus changes to the garden in the main façade so it can work as the main entrance to the station
@@Trainviking Yes, like the changes in chamartin are going to be a lot more drastic than the ones in atocha, but in atocha there is opening in a couple of years a new underground station so the trains from the north could go to the south and viceversa, and they prospective of madrid is a big station with two terminals, one atocha and the other chamartin connected by the new through station
Y cuando se inaugure ya estará 10 años desactualizada jajajaja
First hand experience from yesterday evening: I used the Avril Avlo service from Zaragoza to Madrid. Uneventful and pleasant trip. Noise and shaking similar to that of the S130s, nothing extraordinary or too bad. Seats are a bit narrow and hard, they are the same model installed on other Avlo models. They are perfectly ok for a low-cost service under 2 hours. The interior is nice and the train is roomy and well distributed. Overall, a modern high capacity , high speed train which is ideal for low cost services and trips under 3 hours (the majority in Spain). Honestly, I don’t understand why so much drama around this train. All Avrils will end up as Avlos eventually, when the new S-107 series (300 kmhr, gauge-changing narrow cabin "normal" Talgos) are delivered. Spanish Northwestern corridors and services into Portugal are going to need gauge-changing HSTs for several decades.
There's an urban project that has recently been aprooved, and it will renovate Chamartín station and change completely the surrounding areas. For those who don't know about it, you can find some videos about "Madrid nuevo norte" that explain the project.
Something to be taken into account is this is not a "flagship" train (the Velaros on the Madrid-Barcelona line are) but a "workhorse" train, a higher capacity, faster, tri-tension, gauge-changing substitute of the Alvias that are the backbone of Spain's long distance rail services. Avrils are a swiss knife for the northwestern corridors that need fast, gauge-chaging trains. This a high speed train with basic comfort features, not a luxury train.
So like ICE 4 in Germany (because it's Spain it's with 300 km/h speed, but everything else fits).
@@bojstojsa7574 Yes, and the Avrils are quite cheap also compared to Alstom or Siemens HSTs. Also much lighter and consume less power, but the price you pay is they are bit shaky.
@@bojstojsa7574 And the service is not fine-tuned yet, more time gains will come during next.months. Overall, very good news for rail services in Spain, these trains were highly needed, despite they are far from being perfect.
I've used to go to Barcelona from Madrid every week and Velaros were by far my least favourite train. Noisy, unergonomic seats and cafeteria coach felt like a rollercoaster.
@@km9284 You must be a train gourmet then, I'm a much simpler man.
All the internal configuration depends on the operator, so LeTrain will configure it however it wants, I suppose it will look for its optimal layout for its market. Furthermore, it will not use the variable gauge version, so it will surely be very different in terms of suspension elements, etc. As for the ride quality, it is famous in the Talgos, but that train is the first version of the new evolution of the Avril cars. So I guess they will improve.
Renfe on the high speed lines to the north is desperate to be able to complete the demand. So it is being searched *and this is the ONLY one that can do it given the specialty of changing gauge. There are no other builders in the world capable of fulfilling that contract, not even CAF.
In any case, something that must be mentioned, the concept of the Talgo is that they are very light and they are really low cars, so any imperfection on the tracks may be more noticeable. The Avril is positioned as the most efficient high-speed train in the world. (If I remember correctly, it weighs less than 80-100 tons than a single floor TGV, that's a lot).
ps: I forgot to mention, there is another train/operator with a 3+2 configuration in its second class, the Shinkansen, and for many many years. And for the same reason, capacity is sought, and this is achieved by making wider cars.
The video fails to acknowledge the fact that these trains are incredibly lightweight and exceptionally energy-efficient.
@@thomasmeyer1408 They always forget xD. But they really like that they don't have steps when entering, etc. By the way, the most accessible high-speed train on the eu market.
Chinese HSR (which is heavily « inspired » by the Japanese Shinkansen also has 3+2 layout. So does Taiwan, which simply uses Shinkansen trainsets.
I’d like to know if these energy efficiency stats come from actually using less energy or since they can cram more people in them with the 3+2 seating and claim a greater energy efficiency per head stat. Just a little wary.
@@Konkacha No it's an advantage of the Talgo technology. The older Talgo 350 (Renfe S-102/112) was already the most energy-efficient HS train in the world, but it has no extra seating.
Merci pour toutes les vidéos qui sortent le jour même de l’inauguration ! 🫶
You really posted this very fast! Thanks for the effort, good job on the review!
9:08 Smooth, quiet, comfortable, and an all together delightful experience.
Ya era hora, Por fin los ponen en marcha. Es verdad estos trenes se idearon principalmente para transportar a mucha gente en distancias largas a alta velocidad pero para confort no, esos trenes serian mejores para Avlo ya que no ofrece ese confort que se esperaría uno al ser AVE, un día sin dudarlo iré a probarlos.
Misma opinión, se nota que Renfe no tiene consideración con los usuarios, por los asientos "tipo autocar", y le va a pasar la cuenta (Iryo va a ganar más usuarios en primera clase). Ojalá que en una futura renovación de interiores, Renfe corrija el acolchado de los asientos de primera clase. Saludos cordiales
@@PilotoAlfa22 no creo, Iryo no tiene trenes de rodadura desplazable.
OMG THANKS FOR PUBLISHING THIS .
Madrid-Chamartín station has just started an incredibly astonishing full renovation, and it will be the center hub of the Madrid Nuevo Norte plan, go check both plans out! Quite interesting plans for the north of my city ahead.
I think the Talgo Avril that changes gauge is the one without the 'primary' suspension at the wheels (i.e. only has the bagged spring at the shared post between cars - a bit like a TGV). The older standard gauge-only highspeed Talgos have a primary suspension of 4 springs around the wheelset and are very smooth in comparison. It is possible that the Paris-Madrid trains could be standard-gauge only in the future when the LAV to Irun/Hendaye (Basque-Y) is completed. My favourite night train was the old Elipsos service between Paris and Madrid and they used very old Talgo 6 cars that were quite noisy and changed gauge at Hendaye.
You can see Costa Verde Express carriages at 19:18, a luxury touristic train in narrow gauge that goes throughout the northern coast of Spain
Thank you for the video; your videos are so detailed in comparison to other rail vlogs!!!
Interesting ride, thanks for sharing
J'attendais cette vidéo avec impatience. Merci
Great trip report
The impression i got of this train is that if they changed the seats out for more plush ones and made comfort class have 3 seats per row instead of 4, it could have a much better riding experience. And who knows, maybe the extra weight from a more plush seat would help make the table less shaky
Chamartín is a construction site right now, but you already knew it before going.
Yes, they are going to build a big fucking station and huge park with the beach of the tracks buried underground. It will be impressive when they finish.
@@kaekae4010 It won't. By the time they finish it, it would be outdated by 15 years as all other Spanish infrastructure projects.
@@pastvz2781 But have you seen what the project is like? xDD
One thing th tsome folks haven't comented on is the track. Track quality can affect ride quality. I appreciate that Talgo's have a bad reputation for ride quality, though my few expereinces (DB 'Nachtzug') were comfortable enough. The seat-back info/entertainment screen strikes me as a 'take it or leave it' scenario. The less charitable might compare (unfairly) with British-built Hitachi class 800 series seats - hard as 'ironing-boards'! I like the look of these new Avril train sets. They may need refinement over time, but methinks they're here for the 'long haul' (no pun fully intended!!).
You're right; those seats did remind me of the Hitachi seats, but at least these Talgo seats still have space between each passenger (the Hitachi seats are so cramped, legs awkwardly touching 😅). I'm shocked that even with such new tracks, the shaking looked BAD.
What a fantastic and comfortable train!! Beautiful!!!
Whow your so fast by uploading the video. Well I won't be able to edit on the short term haha
Great video.
I’ll take it one day, great video !
Screens on seats strike me as a huge waste of money. Screen on planes makes sense because you very often don't have an internet connection and your luggage is very limited (so it is convenient that you don't need to bring your tablet/laptop if you want a big screen). But on trains, stable WiFi with some cached content is the way to go. Mobiles work most of the time and you can easily put your tablet in the luggage, no one is weighting/measuring it.
On the Madrid - Galicia line it is quite known that Internet doesn't work on phones neither WiFi for a long time because the train crosses so many tunnels and goes through very isolated areas
@@jorgyjojo3581 Your operators aren't covering the major railway lines of the country? Here in Italy all the high speed lines are already done.
20:00 gains 12 min vs s120/130 cause tracks north of León are not 100% functioning yet. Most of them are limited to 200km/h and some parts are yet under construction.
These tunnels save about 1h from León to Pola de lena in Asturias.
Lovely trip. I like that the rest of the people in the carriage seemed nice and quiet
It was a big challenge for Alstom to make the double deck TGVs. SCNF wanted extra capacitry and got it via Duplex. Since the bogies between cars have 2 axles, Alstom has a bit more flexibility on weight of each car. But for Talgo, with single axle between cars, it can't go "Duplex" as it would be too heavy on the bogie, so they widened it to allow 3+2 to please accountants who care only about how many tickers sold and not interested in whether passengers like it or now. When you have a monopoly on a route that requires gauge changing, you can afford to make coach seating bad since you won't lose passengers to a competitor.
No other vendor makes 300kphr gauge-switching trains. It's Talgo or nothing for the northwestern corridors. So no, Ouigo TVGs are not "top competition" as they can't change gauge, something that is going to be needed for many years in several Spanish lines or if you want to run services into Portugal.
CAF offers also gauge switching systems. Moreover Siemens has one pending tests that Adif and Spains Government do not approve (wonder why…). So then no, Talgo is not the only option. These sets were bought due to its price, almost 15mill cheaper, but that’s how renfe works, cheap above quality. It would have been great to see some Velaros or even Oaris from CAF speeding through these lines
@@antoniolongas5456 CAF doesn't have a 300kmhr gauge-changing train. The Oaris is just a fancy prototype. In any case, Alstom doesn't have anything like this, therefore Ouigo can not be "top competion" (as labelled in the video) in most Spanish lines.
@@user-hq6hb2xv4n my reply wasn’t labeling ouigo or alstom. Regarding CAF, it is not just a fancy prototype. It is an actual train on sale. You are a clear Talgo fan, fair enough. But that doesn’t mean Talgo is great. They actually did a decent job with the 102 and 112. But seriously this is a tremendous failure. Do not care it wasn’t supposed to be a flagship train but just a workhorse… however, things can be done differently right? Anyways, good to have an increment in offer to some points of Spain
@@antoniolongas5456 Sorry but the CAF Oaris prototype (Renfe S-105) seems to have been sold to ADIF as track testing train and the only one sold to date it's a downpowered one (250 km/h max) in Norway.
@@isgota did i say anything different? It is just a MODEL CURRENTLY ON SALE, and actually the oaris presented to Renfe was a modified one based on that exact model.
This train truly brings mental debate whether it’s good or bad :
You wanna like the train but you can’t (for some reason) _AND_ you wanna hate the train but you can’t! (for many other reasons)
I really can’t decide, can I?
Dearie me I thought it was Friday already thibault, 😊 great post don’t think I’d like all that shaking though for those who get travel sickness it’d be a nightmare
No doubt, one of the best and elegant trains in Europe 😍
1:05 Madrid Chamartín is going thougth some works now to be expanded and have a nicer terminal you see it in the worst state!!! Hophully if you come back is gona look diferent (:.
I do think the Avril will be good adition to Renfe fleet as it will provide more seats for congested routes and recolated other roling stock on other routes. However as you point out the Avril is not free from Trouble the seats are like that because when ordered the directors of Renfe at the time went cheep and now where paying the price for their poor destions. I do hope the seats does get enougth critics so Renfe directors can relize their mistake (hophully not to late). Idk if the S106 migth be a bit bumpier than S130 as it uses a diferent suspension but oh well.
As for why Renfe decided to have 3 +2 seting its simple because of France verry expensive track fees so to have similar capacity SNCF TGV Duplex the S106 and they can take more advatage of the prices they pay that why the S106 have 3+2. I do hope the S107 (With Ex TrenHotel Talgo VII sets) will be much better while having the same powercar as the S106 is a totally diferent train think it as TGV POS but in Spain.
Congrats on your video (:
oh wow multi gauge high speed train! this was in trials in japan but they just couldn't get it to work!
It was time.Spain's trains are exellent!
Second day of operation to Asturias: trains full to the brim and no delays. As expected, these trains will be a huge commercial success.
🎉🎉Fantastic🎉🎉
Bellevideohenri😊😊
Merci Thibault pour ce « trip-report » au plus près de l’actualité!!! Bravo également pour le montage rapide de la vidéo!!! 😮
Lors de mon Erasmus en 2004, j’ai fait un trajet Madrid-Alicante en Talgo via la ligne classique (on était loin de parler de LGV a l’époque): une locomotive 252 et des voitures Talgo IV… et même une fourgon porte-autos entre la 252 et les voitures Talgo (une autre époque!). Bref… déjà à l’époque à 200km/h le confort m’avait semblé… hyper-inconfortable, impossible de dormir la tête contre la vitre!!! 😢
It still knocks the UK out of the ring, yes I see the flaws and they are not good, but the speed and the price we can scarcely dream of
Man you are in my hometown! In fact I was on the train you crossed at the intercambiador.
The breakfast menu had multiple languages. Was one of them Galego? It wasn't quite Portuguese.
Looks decent to me, the space between seats is awesome, wish it was like this on a plane:)
Greetings from Czech rep, country with 0 high speed rails, oh well :) Yet seems Talgo will be very soon in Czech hands, so fingers crossed things will start moving here too
The ALVIA train which has served the route will now be used for a 2nd connection between Almería and Madrid
No bike space, that is a shame! Thank you for the video👍🇪🇺
Molto bello il nuovo talgo Avril 😍🚄💨
Many years ago, when the line was inaugurated to Tarragona, which is not BCN, I got into a Velaro almost newly released, I trembled as if I was dancing salsa, over time they became my favorite AVE train, I understand that a train can have small details to solve at the beginning, what if I agree with you is that after a train with so much time in study and in tests, it still has problems of this caliber, however it is RENFE and not Talgo who accepts this type of trains, and of course it's a shame for the awesome Spanish technology that these things happen.
I get the advantages and disadvantages of locomotive vs EMU but EMU's are so much sleeker and sexier imo. The front of this train also looks like the 800 series shinkansen
Technical limitations of the Taglo system make it quite uncomfortable at higher speeds, that's to be expected.
Great trip. I don't know on this route prefer high density or premium one, but I agree about seating configuration on this train suitable for AVLO rather than AVE.
I will never understand why so many modern trains are going for airplane style ironing board seats, one of the reasons I like the train (at least here in the U.S.) is the seats are far more comfortable for the price in comparison to a plane.
Interesting.
I don't like the android tablets on the tables, but they're fine in the seats.
You were saying that RENFE wants to use these in France against SNCF and Trenitalia.
Does this mean Trenitalia wants to join the France-Spain hsl route too?
Do you think the vibration of the cars is due to its lightweight design or the fact that the bogies must transition between standard/iberian gauge and where there would be structural reinforcement to make the ride smoother, there isnt any, because the trains design uses that space between the cars to expand/ contract gauge width?
It is due to the fact there are no bogies : each car uses indépendant wheels.
High noise level is caused by Lightweight.
I hope DB's (ICE L) and DSB's Talgo sets are not so similar to have these shaking problems. But they do look nice.
13:37 what exactly are the eu requirements when it comes to bike storage in trains?
Can you make a trip in the portugese alfa pendular its not the best but its very good atleast for the price
These seats are… something. They are way too thin for a normal long distance service, let alone the first class of a HIGH SPEED TRAIN. I would kinda get it if it was something like “premium economy/turista plus” and then feature another first class with 2+1 and a thicker seat. Also that colour does them no favour.
I would propose running them as Avlo on Barcelona-Madrid line or some other busier lines like Madrid-Valencia due to their immense capacity. The only AVE services I would keep with them running would be these cross gauge routes, but also something that isn’t AVE, but would work with Avrils is Barcelona-Valencia.
They are only for gauge changing lines
@@hermenegildoc3933 They will be used on future services to France, which do not change gauges. Also i am sure that they will not be used by gauge changing services only, given the fact that they ordered 30 of them
Great breakfast in 1st class - large portion and best placement - better than the best European short haul / medium haul business class!
I wonder, is there really enough luggage space for a long-distance train ? If the economy class was full, i doubt there would be enough storage... It's already bad on a Thalys/eurostar with 2+2 layout...
And the shaky thing is really a problem, if it shakes even at 220 kmh. Several years ago we rode on the LGV2 (Leuven-Liège in Belgium) in a regular train, I11 coaches, at 200kmh the train felt like it wasn't moving at all.
One final note: I noticed that even the table seats in standard class have those entertainment screens, protruding like a sore thumb and eating useful space.
The S106 seems to be a "greatest hits" of all of the bad things RENFE thinks are good in railways: capacity at all costs, terrible seats, gimmicky stuff all over the place, etc. Sure, it can run up to 330km/h, but with that ride quality?
(And offering earplugs on a train? Never seen that before. I wonder why...)
It's impressive how fast you managed to put this video out, Thibault! It's also one of your best ones. Great work.
Although the critisism is understandable, these train makes perfectly sense as Renfe where desperately in need of a highspeed train that can change from standard to 1520 and Iberirian 1610 gauge as the previous rolling stock were dated, less capacity despide the extreme high demands and limited to 250km/h. These trainset are the first in the world capable of doing that while going 330km/h. More so these train will be improved as the train should have been running in early 2016 but yeah delays.
Also
Almost sure that those aren't earplugs but headphones to be connected to the tablets.
They aren’t earplugs, but earphones to use with the entertainment system.
Yea, and it's especially weird since the capacity thing could've been dealt with by making a double decker train instead, Spain has the gauge capacity for it! But Renfe and Talgo went for a single decker because it was the easier way out and they could cram people in more "efficiently"
@@1crafter176 i imagine single deck trains weigh a lot less though? Talgos are famed for being lightweight and thus extremely energy efficent.
that looks the same shaly travel i was getting on the ETR600 frecciargento in Italy on normal lines. ATR 470 too had this feeling and I was told that time that it was because the tilting system had been removed. Anyhow, might it be in this case because of this technology on the bogey that it allows it to run on different gauges?
What is the app used at 10:05 ?
The L in Talgo Ligero which must have some effect on the noise and vibration. I do not like the 5 across seating but can understand why it is done. Confort Clase should have some single seats, though there is plenty of room.
wow train!!!
Maybe Alstom Euroduplex trains don't tilt? Did you travel in upside floor?
Buenas,
¿A nadie se le ha ocurrido pensar que gran parte del las vibraciones pueden deberse al mal estado de la vía?
Hace unas semanas realicé un viaje de jornada entre Madrid y Zaragoza. Viaje en Iryo, Serie 109, Frecciarossa1000, a la ida y en Ave, serie 112 en el regreso. Los dos trenes se movían y oscilaban. Personalmente, la sensación que tuve es que Iryo era más silencioso y los movimientos no tan bruscos, pero las vibraciones y los movimientos estaban en los dos trenes.
De todos modos, creo que todo el mundo acepta que Talgo tiene una menor calidad en el confort de marcha, y esto es así por la propia concepción del diseño del tren. Las ruedas libres, sin ejes, y no montadas en bogies hace que el sistema no sea capaz de absorber las irregularidades de la vía tan eficazmente como otros sistemas de rodaje.
A cambio tenemos trenes accesibles, de piso bajo en toda la composición. Ligeros, que no maltratan el carril y capaces de pendular y cambiar de ancho de vía...
Escoger un modelo de tren u otro dependerá de las necesidades del servicio y de la empresa explotadora...
Tiene pinta de que es una mezcla de ambos. Durante la fase de pruebas los trenes de rodadura desplazable (los que pueden alternar entre ancho internacional e ibérico) ya daban problemas de sobrecalentamiento en ejes, al igual que en el cambio de tensión entre 25000V CA y 3000V CC (Pero como es Renfe, pues...), no me extrañaría que estas cosas las hubieran dejado pasar.
Por el otro lado los trenes de rodadura fija (solo ancho estandar) no estan dando problemas de vibracion, por lo que veo en videos.
Works to improve Chamartin have either already started or are due to start soon. This is good because it is quite dated.
Hello. Yes, Chamartín is undergoing a thorough and complete refurbishment. Just a quick note to improve the information on your video: iryo is owned by a Spanish company, ILSA, and Trenitalia has a share of 45 %, so it is not an Italian company as such. At some points, you should try and be more accurate in the information you provide on your videos. I've also noticed you have been more keen and prone to show the possible weak aspects of this Talgo train; I wonder whether it would be so too in the case of an Alstom train... By the way, the ride quality depends a lot on the tracks quality, not on the train itself.
Great review!! I've seen you use an app with information about railways characteristics. Could you tell which that application is? Thanks!
Mapply
Big yikes at that part where train felt it was rounding that curve too fast, you'd think Renfe learned its lesson after Santiago de Compostela.
Just an aside and i could be wrong, but that greenish passenger train at Oviedo could be the Transcantábrico, Renfe's seasonal luxury train running on the northern meter gauge network.
Yes! Its either that or Costa Verde Express
10:04 what app did you use to show the train tracks?
17:49 what was the max speed the Talgo Avril S106 can reach on the Variante de Pajares( high speed line at minute 17:49 )?
200 km/h
Me gusta !
on the 25 minute stop: normal for a new train but usually, problems surface after first days of service not on the very first day 😞.
on 3+2 config: terrible. bigger question is whether others will follow like happened to 777 and 787 airplanes or Renfe will see people avoid those trains and revert to 2-2.
on suspension: This is _apparently_ very light train with carbon fibre bogies (unless during development they reverted to steel bogies). But the bogies APPEAR to still be single axle between cars. (like the Turbo train we had in Canada in 1970s). A 2 axle bogie will halve the "bump" that each wheel/axle feels (but double the number of bumps). But it is much easier for suspension to suppress 2 small bumps vs 1 larger bump. And the gauge changing may also make it harder to dampen left/right motion.
Would have expected that having a perfectly smooth ride was a technical requirement at 300kmh since at that speed, taking a bump the wrong way might cause the train to be launched into orbit around the planet.
Apparentrly they sold to Le Train and hope to sell to other countries i Europe. Curious how the wider carriages will fit in various stations. Can understand how it can negotiate curves with wider but shorter cars, but it still needs to fit in a station with platforms.
I wonder if the new Danish Talgo Waggons will be just as shaky 🤔🤔🤔
Could we see Alstom Avelia TGV with 5 seats in a row ? I mean does this trains are sufficiently large enough for that ?
I think SNCF is not interested but it could be helpfull for Ouigo or the KevinSpeed service if it become real
When you're walking through the coaches filming and the passengers look up at you. What do they see? I've always wondered about passenger reaction to being filmed. I don't do videos but I take pictures everywhere I can and often point the iphone right at people whether they like it or not. That may be dangerous but it is the only way I can get unstaged candid shots.
They're just looking up at someone passing, not looking at the camera knowing they are being recorded.
@@ballyhigh11 I'd love to see a photo of the TH-cam bloggers filming. I want to see how they hold the camera, etc.
El Talgo Avril is very nice and good train because the floor of train is on the same level as the platform. The author said the Talgo Avril is shaky.
Thisis not correct. The TGY and the Siemens trains are also shaku. The problem is the condition of the track.
Are you saying that the Madrid-Asturias rail track that was inaugurated 1 year ago (!) is shit ??? That's quite an indictment, there
personally, i think those shakes add to the whole experience of high speed. i have those on ex-Thalys trains at 300km/h and I love that. for me, if no shakes, no excitement... i wouldn't want it to levitate. 😂 for that, we have planes.. sort of.🤣
2+3 in Standard I can live with, but first should always offer 1+2 at least. The 2+2 cabin should be used for a premium economy product, or in the best case scenario just the standard class.
14:03 Good review, but I doubt the proper word for those is "earplugs", those are probably "headphones" to be connected to the tablets on the seats.
Good video! I will take the new s106 Avril service in low cost service (Avlo) on 12/6 from Barcelona to Lleida and back. And i hope will take Avlo s106 Madrid-Valencia and AVE s106 Madrid-Asturias and Madrid-Galicia in October
Be careful, your life will be in great danger inside such a horrible train with no space for bikes and that awful carpet. Lo peor de lo.peor
A 3+2 Layout on a supposed premium product is just sad (even in 2nd class). 2+2 in 1st class isn't great either. It's a shame that little bit of extra width went towards capacity rather than comfort. The seats look very thinly padded and uncomfortable too. Might be fine on a regional train, but a high-speed long distance train? Coupled with the ride quality issues you pointed out this really does not look like a good experience.
It also makes me a bit nervous about the German ICE developed by Talgo. I hope that one is a bit less shaky. 😬
very expensive ironing boards
How does the Talgo ride quality compare with other high speed trains? I've always heard Talgos are bumpy and jerky but I've never ridden one. Eurostar was shaky when I rode ifrom London to Paris in 2008. The crew assured me the TGV to Lyon was much smoother...and they were right!
It depends on the specific Talgo product, but in general they are less stable than TGVs. It' no that bad anyway, I haven't ride the Avril yet but the other Talgo high speed trains in Spain are ok, a bit shaky but nothing too bad.
Why they didn't go with a double decker train like the TGV duplex. Are the loading gauges inadeguate, or something else?
Gauge change technology
Talgo wheelset only has a pair of wheels shared between coaches instead of 4 on a normal rail bogie, that makes their coaches shorter than normal. If they went double decked, they would need to be even shorter and the stairs to access the upper deck would reduce the seating too much I'm afraid.
quite nice - but if they want me on the trains they must bring back compartments and proper dining cars
I reckon your overspeed and possible derailment was either the brakes not being properly fixed due to your earlier problem or simply pressure to make up time from the stoppage for the brake problem. Either way that is not a good way to start a rail service.
The first class seats appear rather narrow but with huge gaps between. I would also think that there are better seat types.
they look cheap and like an ironing board
What I don't get is how the locomotive blends with the carriages... Looks like if were both made without knowing the shape of the other. On the other hand, I went recently to Madrid using Iryo, it wasn't really smooth, I had a hard time at the toilet. On the other hand I didn't notice when we passed an oncoming train, something that I did with Ouigo, it used to shake when crossing.
I'd understood that Talgo designed the Avril with power cars at either end and not as EMU's so the trains can be configured as either diesel-electric or electric hauled sets.
Talgo designed this with Power cars, due to the extreme low height of wagons and the way they are constructed (very low gravity center), that makes imposible to put the engines bellow the floor in every wagon. On the other hand, the cars are very lightweight, so if the put engines, they have to completely modify how the wagons are constructed, something that is planned for a future new Avril series
I wonder if this train can actually change voltages and gauge which is what its predecessor model S130 S730 can do. Very impressive trip report
1:44 looks like the destination board has services that use the tunnel between high-speed stations in Madrid
8:44 cab display for German and Austrian high-speed trains Zwangsbremsung
It indeed changes voltages and gauge as shown at 16:39
Yes it can and in the units that can change the voltage it has usually caused a lot of problems in the testing phase.
Some of them can change gauges, and some other have a fixed gauge (international), all can change between voltages, and specially those that will be destinated to France services
@DIASDEMUSICA thank you for telling me about that and I wonder if they can combine voltage and variable gauge change with International services. That way this Spanish high-speed train can replicate what its predecessors the unpowered Talgo sleeper trains did
I have been to Madrid-Charmatin in March and it was horrific. I was doing Interrail (which sucks in Spain) and it was my first time in Madrid. Certainly not a good first impression of the city because lord or lord that place is miserable. Coming from Germany, I thought I knew how bad train stations could get but this was something else. Sure there was a construction site which never helps but it is more or less an isolated building which looks bad, has WAY too little seating to accommodate for their stupid way of train boarding and it is encapsulated in a multi story parking lot. Getting there by foot not only really sucks but it is such an ugly journey too. It really blew me away by how insanely terrible this station is on so many aspects. Took me days to process the suffering.
Ooo what map app are you using to see the gauges?
Mapply
Chamartin is beingremodeled as we speak
Beautiful looking train with bad passenger comfort?
Sounds like the rail equivalent of the Boeing 757.
I've never seen a train with airline styled interactive screens behind the seats before. What other trains have them?
Regiojet Astra Class
@@damcoentertainment3956 Those are the only two thus far?
@@coreywilliams-vt3zb I think so, yeah.
Thank you for this interesting video. I like the earlier RENFE Talgo trains and was surprised that you found the ride so poor. As for the seats, they really are not good enough, especially when the AVRIL train sets are to be used on long distance runs. I certainly wouldn’t travel in 2nd Class on one of these trains. The 1st Class seats (Confort) also look horrible, and 2+2 arrangement is not good enough. Hopefully the units that will be used in France will have better seats in both 1st and 2nd Class !
As for the power car at each end of the train, this is probably a result of the very low floor of the Talgo cars being unable to have much machinery below the floor, as in the ICE3 for example. Anyway, the SNCF only have TGVs with power cars at each end ! I will,certainly try one of these AVRIL trains once they are running to Paris.
You didn't check out the premium lounge at chamartin??
I didn't have the time