Difficult vs. Destructive Relationships | Therapy & Theology
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- Lysa TerKeurst talks with her friend Leslie Vernick about the difference between difficult relationships, which we all have to navigate at times, and destructive relationships, which are damaging to our relational and emotional health and overall well-being.
Helpful resources from Lysa TerKeurst and the Proverbs 31 Team:
- Download the FREE Listener Guide for this Therapy & Theology video here: proverbs31.org/read/resource-...
- Get your copy of Lysa TerKeurst’s book “Good Boundaries and Goodbyes” here: www.p31bookstore.com/collecti...
Additional resources from Leslie Vernick:
1. Quickstart Free Guide: leslievernick.com/free-guide/
2. 5 Red Flags: g14llpzk.pages.infusionsoft.net/
3. "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick:
www.amazon.com/Emotionally-De...
4. "The Emotionally Destructive Relationship" by Leslie Vernick:
www.amazon.com/Emotionally-De...
P.S. Looking for something specific? Fast-forward this video using the minute markers below!
0:00 Intro
0:49 Difficult or destructive relationship?
3:24 Red flags
6:52 Seeking truth in relationships
12:21 Discerning where our fears come from
17:32 Building courage to face the truth
20:43 Fight isolation with community
23:02 Listening to your body
25:47 Encouragement when you feel alone
29:42 Fruit of repentance
32:22 Trust God in this dark valley
Ready to take a personal next step in finding a Christian counselor? The American Association of Christian Counselors is a great place to find the right fit for you and your circumstances. www.aacc.net
#lysaterkeurst #proverbs31 #therapyandtheology #therapy #theology #mentalhealth #emotionalabuse
The Lord is not playing about exposing the narcissistic spirit in this hour. God is using so many of us who survived narcissistic abuse to expose this insidious, wicked spirit and empower others to escape these crippling relationships.
I told my sister she is a narcissist about a month ago, I said for the sake of my own well being and mental health I cannot speak with her alone, I need a witness as she cannot be trusted. It's sad but the truth.
I’m trauma bonded to my narcissistic husband and I am struggling to detach from him . Especially since I would be breaking up our family 💔
@@beesinthegardens Totally! I agree with you a 100%. But we they’re not going to allow it so we have to do it on an individual or collective level. Use whatever platform we have. I’m literally educating everyone I can about narcissism both women and men, children, youth, everyone.
@@bygrace3113 You did good. Do everything you can to protect yourself. She’ll twist everything and get you totally bent out of shape and doubting not just your sanity but your whole existence.
@@tawnicapurro4528 I understand you on every level. It’s a difficult decision.
For me I did it for my children. There was no way I was going to keep exposing my children to the same dysfunction I grew up with. As a believer, I have a responsibility to do better. My children and I deserve better.
I pray the Lord will give you the wisdom and strength to make the right decision for you and your children.
No matter what you are going through right now, God will get you through it. We are praying for everyone reading this! ✝️
Thank you
Excellent.
Thankyou
Thank you, I'm so tired of being gas lighted by my husband. I can feel depression creeping in now and then. I keep praying and reading my Bible.
Thank you. God bless.
Getting divorced was the best decision I made. I had severe anxiety and depression due to the instability. My soul was breaking. I’m happy now and my son and I live in a peaceful home.
I coulda said the exact same thing. Ao proud of us for leaving the men we thought were for us
Me as well.
Blessings 🙏
In it right now couldn't agree more
I am going through this now. My 3 boys and I cannot wait to go our separate ways. For 13 years, I have been physically, emotionally and verbally abused. The gaslighting and manipulation and the constant ultimatums. To top it off, he has been with another woman for the last year, and I just found out, and not from my husband but from her. So while I was the punching bag, she was getting the royal treatment. But, I believe this is Gods way of saving me, because this is what finally pushed me to leave and so now I will begin the next season of my life. No more crying myself to sleep and walking on eggshells.
It's so important to remember a lot of us have an abusive family, zero friends because of the abuse, zero people who are supportive in the church, and no money for counseling. It's possible to heal without community and through Christ & His Word alone. There is hope. Thank you for these videos.
Praying for you, friend!
I am such a kind fun personable and professional person yet I have experienced the same as you stated above. After all these decades I keep hanging in there with God yet nothing changes. I even made a God move to different state as HS kept leading yet since day 1...there has been NO grace, mercy or favor just constant battles. I cant keep living like this.
I Journal daily to God to seek His wisdom. I am worn out. I've always been a Positive Outgoing Delightful Person and I cannot handle the chaos anymore. I even have boundaries yet I have to get nasty speaking or I get retaliated after their wrong doings. I'm very sick now due to catching chilled at work when no one else would do their duties then POT parties apt next to me. LANDLORD DOESN'T CARE about my health nor higher management.
Plus when I went to doc, I received text from my boss...Letting Me Go~ I am Caucasian and he African American. He constantly has our other Afr. Amer's backs no matter what they're doing or not doing. I was bullied and had the Race Card used vs me as Hospital coworkers told me. Many of the hospital workers along with an on-duty Police Officer have stated " Connie you are the hardest-working security officer I have ever seen." I was very passionate at the hospital I worked. I am Torn over this recent loss. I miss connecting here as I allowed HS to lead me. Many ppl couldn't believe how I was put in their path.
Pls help!!!
I AM WORN OUT. Lossed my healthy dog Faithie too! I literally experiencing mental, emotional & now financial concerns. Plus a new dog that is overbearing. Just recently my 15 y.o. car had to be replaced. Struggling & financially strapped and each day filled with more setbacks when I AM ATTEMPING TO MOVE FORWARD
@@MelodyCoz seems churchs dint care. Shelters only wirk for a month
Learn spiritual warfare. Fight back
If it is at all physically possible, get out of any and all abusive relationships. Don’t just fight back spiritually, leave any unsafe situation.
Wow. I listened to this and realized how much of this happened as a child. I did not even see how much destruction has affected my current way of having relationships. I am doing the work and thank you for this ..❤️❤️🙏🏾👏🏾
I’m so thankful a friend shared this video with me. I can’t wait to break the chains to this toxic marriage. Give me strength lord. ❤
God bless you. I am praying for you right now.
Praying for you 🙏🏽
I'm praying for strength to leave this marriage 😢
If You Knew
Where God Saved
Me From, You’d
Understand
Why I Praise Him
Glory To God!
SO helpful.
2 truths I've realized are that;
1. God will not bring to light information that I'm not ready to handle.
2. God doesn't bring things to light to shame a person but to give the opportunity for sin to be redeemed. This helps calm my anger and realign my disappointment. I do want to co-operate with God is this healing but also allow for my anger in this too.
God knows what He is doing. Trust Him in the painful seasons.
Good points, Lisa!
He will 100% allow things into your life that you can not handle. The key is to realize that He can handle
It's heartbreaking that so many wonderful women go through life stuck in these relationships. It's so sad that so many men are like this. God help us.
Yes and when do Pastors even talk on this subject? Often because some Pastors are also like this in their own homes which is really scary!
Yep, exactly why I would not tell a woman in this situation to “go to the church” or “go to your pastor”. They often support the man & further abuse the woman & tell the woman divorce is a sin and if you divorce him you’ll end up with the same type of person again
The moment I started recording our conversations and taking screenshots of everything, JUST so I can confirm my reality...should have been the definite sign to get out. I didnt, and got burrrrrned
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was in a destructive marriage for 14 years and I just kept thinking that I will pray and fast. I went through physical and emotional abuse. I would feel that I was walking on eggshells around him. The abuse lightened and I knew that God was working but after 14 years, I recently went through such a big blow. It's been hurting and I just kept crying out to God to provide emotional healing. I know that He can do it. However I was given a way out, my mom who is also in a hurtful relationship made me feel bad for not sticking it out yet she knew less than half of what I went through. I am so glad that I can hear this discussion in a Christian point of view. I am seeing this way out as God's intervention. Thank you Lord. It's not going to be easy. I don't really know where I'm going to live with my children but I am trusting that God will provide. Thank you for exposing this issue.
It is so true that I have been asked to be that sacrificcial one and take it up as my cross from both my mom and former pastor. I am so glad that there is awareness about this.
One thing I can say about the narcissistic spirit, IT’S CONSISTENT! I believe this spirit has a script that it follows to the t. I hear other people who were married to a narc speak and It sounds as if we were married to the same person.
So eerie, isn't it? Definitely a certain set of evil spirits and strongholds at play.
I am coming to the realization that my husband is narcissistic and I may need to leave. I’ve been prescribed antidepressants several times for depression and extreme anxiety, and I’ve lost years of my life to fatigue that appears to have no physical cause. It can be really tough to recognize something is wrong with your relationship in the context of being a good Christian wife, and then even harder to leave once you do.
We're so sorry you're walking through this. We're praying for you today!
@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries + It is very painful when we recognise that our spouse is narcisstic. Church members tell us we have to forgive and force us straight back into the abusive relationship. It is more convenient for them.
One night God gave me a dream. I saw a scene on the main road behind my house. In my sleep I walked towards the nearest person lying at the side in a pool of blood. As I looked down at him, I realised it was my husband. I was busy divorcing him. God asked, "Do you want to kick his head and kill him, and finish him off, or help him?" Without a doubt I wanted to help him, but could no longer live with him. So, I realised, church members were condemning me for protecting myself. That puts so much guilt on us, which narcisstic spouses use against us. So don't let them do that to you. No-one has the right to control you. Not your spouse. Not your parents. Not your children. Not your friends or acquaintences. Jesus died on the cross to set us free. We answer to Him alone.
Our son inherited his father and grandfather's genes. One day he walked quickly out of our home, aged 12. God spoke clearly as I watered the garden with bare feet. He told me to follow him. When I turned the corner, my son had my car open, with his hand in my handbag, stealing the rent money I had hidden there. He had stolen the keys from under my pillow. I had been threatened with eviction if I was late paying rent again. I had never realised what my son had been doing to me before.
Leave do & set strong boundaries if you want this to work.
Please, if you can seek counseling with a trauma informed therapist. Do not go to a "Christian counselor" just because they have that title. They are usually not equipped to deal with abuse that is more insidious and nuanced. So called "biblical counseling" has been a tool to further abuse the victim as their doctrine is based on the thought that your difficulty in life is because of your sin. That can be the case, sometimes, but the idea that because I am not Jesus himself, I have no right to call out the behavior of others, is abuse priming.
Also, never seek marriage counseling in conjunction with your spouse if they are a narcissist. The likelihood that they will use it to your disadvantage later or that they will be able to gaslight the therapist is very high. Don't discount your experience by trusting others perspective. The therapist will not experience your perspective in a few hours in session where he is gaslighting the therapist and working to trigger you.
Speak as a voice of experience.
@@c.t.8856this is so true and something I experienced as well. It just compounded my pain, which was already great (counseling with Christian counselor).
We moved 55 times in 35 years so went to about 15 different churches. Never felt emotionally well enough to talk to anyone nor did I know how to bring anything up. It was mind numbing. When I did talk to one woman I thought I could trust, she told me that what I was experiencing was normal. A pastor said the same. I left a year later. The intrusive thoughts stopped a year after that. Nearly 3 years later, I am starting to find my voice again.
Bless you 🙏
Praying for you tonight 🙏💕🙏
I am so happy for you. What you went thru was brutal. God's grace and love will see you through.
Normal. New normal as in Babilon in our day. What standard of godliness is thàt. Perhaps the pastor treated his wife badly and hè thought it normal.
Im so sorry u went thru so much.
Thank you for this video! I got out of my destructive marriage over 25 years ago and dont have to deal with my ex anymore. Now its my grown narcissistic daughter who screamed at me, cursed at me, gaslit me, all those destructive things! She cut me out of her life over a year ago. I dont miss the drama and destructive behavior, but i do miss my 6 year old granddaughter that i kept the first 5 years of her life! Sometimes i feel like i am being destroyed, but i believe God is allowing me to fight for my granddaughter to be a part of her own family! I am going through the court system. My little granddaughter has known only chaos in her young life, police coming to their house, drinking, fighting, men in and out! Please pray for us!
Praying for you, friend!
I was married to a narcissistic for 37 years. It was death by a thousand cuts. He desperately needed therapy and healing from his own trauma and abuse growing up. He took it out on me instead. God delivered me and im getting healing for myself.
God gave me four years to face the truth! Because I needed that long even then if God is not with me, I would have died, God is such a father and a friend.
He kept me🙏🏽
Reasonable people who are acting out of honorable motives should be happy to explain themselves ❤
As a single Christian woman, I am learning a lot from this video about what I don't want from my next relationship. I'm a childhood trauma survivor, and I refuse to settle for a man who is a narcissist!
This was the first time I put this into words, I don't regret our separation. I am more happy now ☺
This is so true!! I’ve been called as crazy, super jealous woman, unstable woman etc..I started to feel like I wasn’t a good Christian because I felt like I was thinking negative thoughts towards my ex-husband. But God made a way! The betrayal was exposed later on. 🙏🏻
Thank you ladies for this courageous conversation. Unfortunately many church leaders are not trained in The dynamics of abuse( especially emotional and spiritual abuse.)
❤ and remember there is a Jezebel spirit in most churches. Also, the 501c3, they are serving Baal. The state determines what they can or cant say or do. Beware!!
"your work right there is to get strong enough to handle the truth"❤
So true. But sadly, the “ controller” always “wins”, and enablers make excuses for him and vilifies you.
I emailed Leslie when my marriage was in serious trouble. She was kind and honest with me that I was in a destructive marriage. I had a hard time accepting it and proceeded to try counseling - unfortunately he is narcissistic so that only made things worse. Im divorced now and it's much better being away from him. There are other challenges but that's to be expected i guess. I appreciate Leslie being honest with me and she was right that my ex husband has a sin problem and that is not a marriage problem and needs to be addressed separately. He won't go to individual therapy, but at least Im no longer holding on to false hope of him changing.
I have severe anxiety my marriage is hanging my a thread. I'm experiencing everything in this video. Been spending time with the Lord. Jesus please step in and help me! Protect my children.
Two of the most influencing women in my life!! Leslie's book about how your marriage can be destructive, literally changed my life when I was in a definitely destructive marriage myself!! Thank you, Jesus, for Lysa and Leslie.
Thanks for watching, Susan!
Which of her books are you referring to?
@@trainertylee3481 The Emotionally Destructive Marriage
I can relate to the issue of attending a retreat. I attended two weekend retreats in 20 years. Both times I returned he came out of the house furious that I’d been gone. It was so embarrassing and humiliating. After 30 years (now that I can survive financially) I’m getting a divorce. Control, lying, anger, devaluing, financial mismanagement..it’s been horrible. The promise he made to love me and love God when we married was a charade.
I’ve been through this and I stayed and prayed for God to change him. Finally I realized that my husband emotionally abandoned me and has been abusing me and cheating. This is no longer a Godly marriage. And I totally agree with the church telling women to become husband centered and marriage centered! That was me and it was slowly destroying me! So now I’m leaving and am fully trusting God to be my strength and support
I am so sorry. God help you and bless you.
G5😊
🎉 yes your marriage covenant was broken long ago, so is mine. I'm making a plan.
There is a critical part to this type of abuse that gets lost in what most see or think regarding how the toxic person shows up. For me, he was passive aggressive and used the silent treatment as the tool of choice. It was my confusing his quietness with who I thought was a reflective man of few words that kept me hooked for over 25 years. He was passively getting away with destructive behavior on all levels behind my back and right under my nose. Turns out his behavior to act out followed our disagreements and my calling him out. Back then, there was no such language as having boundaries and holding him to account for his actions and meanness and withdrawal of affection that he used against me. I also didn’t know my self worth. I felt like I had too many feelings and that I would disrupt peace if I spoke up and said anything. He knew this. He manipulated me time and time again.
Now, I’m left trying to undo the effects of this dysfunctional system of how he treated and portrayed me in front of my now adult daughter.
My husband did this to me for 23 years and my 2 teenage sons are following in his footsteps so sad 😢
Thank you I sure wish my pastor would listen to this and believe me and my situation as for decades I’ve asked for prayer and help but now that I’ve actually left I feel even more alienated and ostracized.
@@nicolecilley3100 I am so sorry for your pain. I can say I know that pain. The pastor colluded with my husband and didn’t want to see the whole picture and the Christian counsellor supported the marriage staying together even though it was toxic. I didn’t have the proper words at the time because everything I said was gaslit and then I wasn’t sure about what was real. And I also didn’t feel worthy enough to tell my own story because the other side was so believable and charismatic.
Now my husband has been gone for over 5 years and in the last two years he’s been able to demean me even further to our adult children that they don’t even talk to me. The lies are thick and damaging and he has isolated me from the kids and they don’t even know anything about my side of the story. Now I’m healing from breast cancer, going through all the surgeries and chemo without any support from family. Destructive relationships are just that! My husband is the third generation of this behaviour( that I know of) and I’m praying for my adult kids to escape it. I have hope of things unseen!✝️🙏. Our Jesus knows our hurts❤. Blessings Nicole, and everyone else out there that knows this terrible pain.
As a mom I can only imagine how painful this is. I am praying for you and your children right now. Stay strong. 🤍🙏
Yes the non verbal communication , passive aggressive manipulation, and deception. His meddling mother who I suspect was a narcissist with her two enmeshed baby boys( 63 & 56) there was triangulation brought on by her( 85) it took years for me to understand and realize what was happening. This women has no sensitivity, says mean things to people sometimes , she seems to enjoy it and her whole social group knows she has two personas, never apologizes. Never gives compliments.
The ex bf still tries to keep in contact but what broke was his family went on a cruise, told me I could go, but then I found out he got his passport without telling me for 4 months. I felt so deceived , he never once told me he had it in process until the day he opened the package in front of me. He deflected and said you knew I needed one because my other had expired. All the times In that 4 months i was there with him having dinner, i had moved out because of deception but both agreed we had hope,
I had dinner with him, went to dr appts, outings and never once did he feel guilt at hiding it from me. A month later he left me behind and went on the cruise no guilt, no shame. I wanted to send blessings but I just couldn’t. I cried that whole week. He never tried to make contact that week. In fact he sent a letter a fee days before his trip and said there was no wifi out at sea. I knew the ship had wifi . I am talking to a therapist because as silly as it sounds , I cry every-time i see a cruise ship. The deception and gaslighting over the years prompted me to seek therapy but the cruise was what hurt me the most that I couldn’t go back and continue giving chances. It hurt me to my core.
I’m a therapist and found this to be really helpful for treating some of the female clients I see trapped in unhealthy marriages
Same here!
The The
Ladies, I Can’t thank you enough for the work you’re doing. The narcissistic spirit is permeating the earth at an alarming rate. BUT GOD!
Thanks for watching!
Yes and that's a sign of the end times! In Revelation, it says people will be lovers of self. Sadly, our culture has created a lot of self centered narcissistic men.
@@kcreagan9799 Not just men. Many women are just as narcissistic as men. The only difference is women are subtle about it and men don’t complain about the narcissistic abuse they suffer from women as loud as women do. But yes, you’re right, Paul warned us about this spirit in the Book of Timothy. We have to be vigilant in this hour.
Wow! Fantastic podcast. I walked this path and got out 11 years ago. I’m still recovering. Sadly, my children have continued to be manipulated to the point of complete division of the family. This experience led me to working full time in helping women recover from destructive relationships. I can’t wait to dig into the books mentioned.
I'm in a very painful, difficult season with my mother. This discussion was extremely encouraging and gave me lots to think about & work on. "The Bible has much to say about forgiving, forbearing, holding people accountable, speaking the truth in love, uncovering the unfruitful deeds of darkness...God calls us to be God-centered women and to use him and have HIM as our source of well-being which then gives us the courage to deal with whatever is out there that is scary and hard...versus to have whatever is out there NOT to be scary and hard in order for us to be okay." (Leslie Vernick) >> I'm learning to face the truth about my mom and anchor my hope, contentment, security, and joy in the Lord.
We're glad this video was helpful, Elizabeth!
That is such a powerful statement. Hearing their repentance but not seeing the fruit of it. 😢 that’s my situation now. I hear that’ll he’ll do better but he can’t tell me how. And when we are talking he gets upset and puts the blame back on me. So there’s no change even at that moment. Very self help podcast I show him to help it’s he doesn’t like it. So essentially he’s not showing me the fruit of his repentance.
Make a plan, read David E Clarke books, and his videos. He wont change, they always say you have the problem
I am going thru the exact same thing 😢
Trust is built by "time + believable behavior" - so good
So much this video, thank you. I stayed in a very toxic and abusive marriage far too long, because I thought that if I just did the right things and said the right words it would all help. And people in the church did not know how to manage what I was telling them, so they provided little help. I'm so grateful for the work of Mike Winger, and now this video, to get the word out there about abuse and that you don't have to stay with someone who is abusive. Thank you for this!
We're glad you found this video helpful, friend!
I checked his phone, a boundary violation, but I found so much betrayal. When I (lovingly) confronted him, he flipped it on me, got really angry and made it all about me checking his phone. I should have left then, but somehow I believed you can grow stronger after such an incident. I didnt see that for us to get stronger, his reaction was the first big red flag, that it wasnt going to happen.
Both of you women have helped me so much with your books while I was experiencing the ultimate marital betrayal by my husband of 30 years while I was fighting stage 4 breast cancer. Leslie's book helped me understand that his affairs were just another form of abuse in a very long list over the years. I am so thankful for the discernment that God gave me using your books. My situation is so very close to what you describe, Lysa.
Dear God @beachy 1880 Are you okay? Do you have family or friends to help you. Your husband is bound for Hell if he does not repent. I am so sorry for your pain. I pray God binds up your wounds, heals you completely and gives you a whole new life away from this darkness. Jesus is the light of the world and He loves you!
@@tammysims8716 thank you! I AM okay. I have an amazing support group of family, friends, and church, but above all I have Jesus! Or, rather, He has me! My faith is my strength. I'm in the middle of divorce and he is making it as slow as he possibly can, but I will get out and be better for it. I will leave his salvation between him and Jesus. My cancer journey has been rough lately and after 7 years of fighting I'm stopping conventional treatment. I would appreciate prayers that God would reveal the right treatment for me, or prepare me to meet Him soon. I know His will and timing are perfect.
@beachy1880 I am just now seeing your comment. I was without a phone for a few weeks. I am so sorry I am just now getting back to you. I pray you are doing great! I pray for your healing. How are you? Many blessings and grace upon you in Jesus's name 🙏
To have someone tell me I wasnt crazy made such a difference to me. He would tell me things like, "and you call yourself a Christian."
It has taken many years to feel ok about me. I walked into a similar marriage a second time because those scary behaviors had become normalized for me.
After telling my family after months of abuse and newly married....he told me in a angry rage that i must tell my fam its not true and apologise....and i did. That is crazy making. 22 years later and its better ....but still feeling rejection at times and not good enough. Always being compared to other women. Women who groom.themselves look after themselves and are emotionaly healthy...and this was me before we married. I am financialy controlled...feel utterly guilty just cutting my hair once a year or buying a pair of shoes much needed.....being told how finances are short...all the while he spends as he wants on what he wants...
I had been so excited to be marrying a man in seminary. I meant my vows and so loved standing with him in service to our Lord in the lives of people. Little did I know that “the world” would take him over and he would begin to groom me for deplorable things. Though trapped, I loved my children and bought the story that it was my job to please him. It became extreme….then finally I felt I had to leave him or die. I’d been self medicating (no substances now for over 6 years) and the story is dramatic. He lost his ordination due to his behaviors. I didn’t leave for ten more years. I’ve been divorced for 11 years now after 24 of marriage. Our great God has healed me. I can even wear purple now (he always wanted my toenails to be purple). It has only been in the last year that I can say that he had predatory behaviors and I was groomed. I share this because I didn’t have the ego strength to recognize the red flags, to be able to speak out and hold on through his professed love. Someone needs to hear, YOUR voice matters! The Lord does NOT need you to stay in a relationship that destroys. To God be the glory!!!
Wow! All of these things happened to me. I'm so thankful God brought me out of my destructive marriage.
My Daughter was cheated on and told that she had to be careful what she said in counseling because he said the counseling in the military could be not confidential and he could get in trouble and get kicked out because of his position which was scary to her. They are going through divorce and realizes now that she could have shared that info with the counselor. This happens a lot in marriages where the spouse is in some kind of law enforcement, military or otherwise.
Thank you so much Lysa & Leslie. Lysa, I keep saying this... You had powerful bible studies before. Then God stepped it up a few notches. I am sorry for your pain, just know you are changing many lives in the process. We then will go on and help save another women's life. The validation is so powerful. I BELIEVE YOU. Lot's didn't care to know the whole story, even counsel. People got bits & pieces if they choose to listen. I felt like no one really cared or truly wanted to know what happened in my home for 25 years. I've always struggled with the proper words for my feelings. I was one of those women who could identify anger, mad, sad and that was about it. Always wondering what's wrong with me? Then having my kids come home and call me the very same names he called me. I am currently writing my testimony out to share one day soon. Both of you have changed my life forever. Thankfully I finally took my friends advice and started listening to Leslie. You both give me so much hope.
You
Are
Not
Alone
❤
Even 4 years later, this video is so helpful. I’ve come a LONG, LONG way. It’s been a journey, still is. But this video is so validating. I’ll never forget, my ex told me after we broke up “Remember your momma told you that breaking up with me would be the biggest mistake of your life.” And I will never forget sitting there thinking “I don’t remember that happening and I don’t think my mom would even say something like that. I know she wouldn’t.” But I was so messed up in my head that I really couldn’t remember. He then went and told this to someone older, really respected in our community and they called me and told me that I needed to stop being so controlling. It was a mess. If you can, get out safely. Sooner is better than later. Love and light to everyone. ❤
"Oh the things you do for love" (or what you thought was love or desperately needed to be love). Connected so much with the fear of facing the truth and where that would lead. The reality is, now 10 years later, I realize I was trying to hold onto something that wasn't real love and did end by his choice, not mine. My biggest lessons were facing the truth sooner might have stopped a decade of unneeded pain in mine and my child's life. No one wants to fail In marriage, but what a damaging cost to prolong the inevitable when you know in your heart real love is what one of you is fighting for but the other isn't. Divorce is not easy, but neither is living a lie.
Well put.
@Laurie Esquivel Yes, very well put
Vibes do not lie. God will show you if there is something real happening, or if it simply PTSD from past experiences and fear of it happening again. Lots of prayer, for sure!
Thank you so much for this confirmation and validation of the things/red flags and etc that I got prompted to five years ago! Ahhh I can breathe!
Keep in mind, five years ago there was no language for what I was going through! I’m so proud knowing there is language today.
Pure wisdom every pastor and judge and attorney and sheriff needs to hear. Reality is, people do lie. They do project virtues they cannot posses or even comprehend. Some do use fear, threats, intimidation and mockery to tear down the individual’s courage and autonomy. If evil didn’t exist, we wouldn’t need laws and systems which protect. 😢
And to add, it’s not always best to throw around certain terms. But there are such diagnosis as Sociopaths that are cluster B and can be NPD narcissistic personality disorder, BPD Borderline Personality Disorder… and other mental illnesses that are personality disorders that can be extremely harmful and destructive. I’m careful in using those terms and they require a proper diagnosis and it’s not my place to take anyone’s inventory. But it’s real and people can hide behind these facades in myriad manipulative ways. I’m so grateful that this abuse behavior is being spoke about candidly but with Holy Spirit lead dignity!
YES!!
The secret sorrow of the heart. Inside devastation is so real 😔😔💔
Hard when the man is saying without fruit but deceiving adult children still… thank you for this!
10:00. Over the years, I eventually took my NPD husband's abuses and never-ending adulteries to the church, whatever church we attended at the time, and if he could get the pastor alone for 5 minutes, he would turn him and the church (even long-time friends) against me, then they would both come against me, useing victim-blaming, victim-shaming, revictimization. This happened in 3 churches, (quite easily), even when they knew all the facts. NPD is incredibly diabolical.
This was very helpful. I’m not losing my mind. I’m gaining the understanding that gaslighting is real. That what I’ve dealt with is not anything more than destruction to my soul. 😢 I know I cannot fix, or change what I’m dealing with. Thank you for this video. I’ve been praying and feel that I was led to your video by God leading me here. I’m sick and my body just can’t take anymore. I feel it destroying me. Thank you.
Amen. Me too!
Oh Ramona, my heart goes out to you! Sending a big hug of understanding, bc this is also what is happening to me. ❤❤❤
Feeling it too just praying and asking God what to do cuz I dont want to deal with divorce either!!!
@@mommacita2069 prayers for you too. I’m sorry you are dealing with this too. I said I’m done with how you treat me and it gets turned on me again. I say I mean it I’m done. I am getting change promises I know will not come true I get these over and over again. I’m watching bc I’m out next time it happens.
@@Jaxmusicgal23 If it brings peace I’ll do it It’s not how I wanted it to be. But I don’t think this is what a marriage should be. I don’t think zi can take it much longer I’m at my breaking point. It’s tearing me apart and I’m not suppose to medically have a lot of stress. We all don’t need stress. I think you can love someone at a distance and sometimes a great distance. 🙏♥️
My narcissistic , alcoholic, emotional and physical abuser sent me Into a clinical depression and psych ward for 10 days. He finally settled it all by killing himself on my front porch. Several months later I realized I was free of the torment! Received excellent counseling and am healed! Took quite a while but I am free !!! Thank God! 🙏❤️👏👏🙌
Thank you Jesus!
I was married to a narcissist for 20 years, I left one time in the middle of our marriage for about 1 1/2 years and I allowed him to come back in my life because I thought it was the biblical way, I felt like I needed to give
him a second chance. I lost myself, became very depressed, did not understand what was going on? He made me feel crazy, he always said I didn’t remember correctly, he always lied about things, I could never have a regular
conversation and he could never answer a simple question with a yes or no answer, always an answer that had nothing to do with it. I asked God to show me truth, it hit me like a ton of bricks, got the courage to leave again, I will never go back 🙏🏻💗
This is where I am!! And I feel like God has shown me things so that I don’t have guilt and I can leave. But now my Christian friends are telling me I need to stay! Like what?! They say God didn’t change the plan and I need to forgive and maybe through me staying he will change. It made me completely confused!
My marriage started out in a pool of lies. I’m a codependent married to a minister/ narcissist. I was betrayed/ gaslight/manipulated/coerced. My voice was never heard, I was manipulated by the constant scripture and preaching bombing used as a tool to inflict shame. I will never forget how devastated and ashamed I felt. I know we can’t change them, but with no remorse/ accountability/ repentance, why would that be something anyone would want to stay married in. I have detached emotionally and physically from him, because i love myself enough now and with the Lord Jesus on my side, I can move on. Blessings to all those who are in situations that are destroying you. You are worthy, you are loved. ❤❤
Well said.
How DO YOU go on with someone who takes no responsibility, isn’t remorseful has no empathy and will never admit being wrong?
In the waiting space. I am enough. I can’t live with the anxiety any more. It’s excruciating.
Tina- are you still married to him?
Thank you so so much for this Divinely led conversation. I'm in tears, not only because of the acceptance and the comfort but also the confirmation and clarity.
I'm going to look for an online Christian community to help my healing now because nobody around me understands what I went through (narcissistic abuse), let alone can help me through this healing journey.
God bless you two❤
Praying for you today, friend!
WOW! Now I don't feel crazy! Can't thank you ladies enough.
Thanks for watching!
I thought to come to terms with my marriage, then realized I don’t know the terms! Anything he wants the way he wants it and when. Those are the ever shifting terms. I have begun to operate on my own terms and let him pout, fake sickness, threaten, and try to guilt trip me. Somebody say Praise the Lord
He sounds like a narcissist. If he is, I'm sorry to tell you it will only get worse and he won't change or recognize he is the problem. If he's a narcissist you will never have any peace until you leave.
I don't mean for my previous comment to come off harsh, btw. I have the utmost sympathy for you because I was in a marriage where he behaved similarly. Leslie gently informed me that the marriage was destructive. We are divorced now and it was hard, but now at least I can move forward and heal. I pray for God to help you and to show you the way forward. Blessings ❤
Thank you! I wish I had had this video 20 years ago. But it is validating now because the spirit has told me to get divorced. Thank you for putting this in words!
I was just saying this same thing! I wish I had known all this 25yrs ago. Like gaslighting and narcissism 🙄
@@jasonbourne5142 what of and what for? Strange comments you made.
@Jason Bourne For? 🙄 I already explained to you on your other comment. Praying for ya 🙏
Leslie is so good at teaching exactly how God is so faithful and responsible in the area of deception. Two things the Holy Spirit told me when I was dealing with this in my marriage one was I can only be deceived to the point I'm willing to deceive myself. Another time when I wanted to see with eyes of Truth and understand everything in a way where I would respond appropriately and not be deceived God told me that I was not ready. I simply said back to him maybe I'm not ready but if you're with me isn't that good enough. That definitely launched within a very short period of time a great exposure in my life. That exposure left me feeling lost like I woke up on a raft in the middle of the ocean with no compass but he was with me. Leslie's statement what is your problem with his problem is so true to keeping us locked in a box of Deceit.
Thank you! I wish I would have heard this so many years ago. The destruction is real, me and my children are still trying to heal 🙏🏻
I was married to a man who claimed he was a Christian but after a year he changed. 14 years with him while I wept and prayed and prayed. I reached out to pastors and leaders and I was told to submit more, give him more sex, forgive, forgive, forgive.
He had sick, twisted sexual desires and I was coerced to do these things with him with the Bible. "The marriage bed is undefiled". I was not to say no, it was disrespectful.
Things continued to get worse. And worse.
I was dying slowly inside. I thought of killing myself. I daydreamed about him dying. I thought death was the only way out, his or mine.
He cussed God out regularly and flicked Him off while I was crumpled on the ground crying, my heart breaking that he couldn't feel the enormous love God has for him!
I finally had two friends who truly listened, helped me see that what I was in was severe abuse, and they helped me gather up my self live and self worth enough to leave. But it wasn't until I cried out to God to give me a sign to leave. I couldn't leave by my own wisdom which was lacking compared to Gods. I prayed for Him to end my marriage. My sign came the next day.
It wasn't until I left that I realized I was married to a covert narcissist.
I wasn't taught about abuse, I wasn't educated on boundaries, saying NO, manipulative people, narcissism, spiritual abuse. I wasn't taught to have any self esteem or about having self worth. I was taught that that was selfishness and self focus! 🤯
I am almost 5 years out and I am still healing from severe c-ptsd from having to sleep next to a monster for 13 years. I had to deconstruct the "religion" I had been taught and God and I are closer than ever!
I am remarried to an amazing man of God, a TRUE man of God and he is walking alongside me as I continue to heal.
We pray for my ex a lot. I've forgiven him but I'm still working through the grief, sadness and anger at him and myself....I chose to stay that long! I thought that was my calling, suffer for Christ. I was taught I could save my husband! What?! I am not Jr. Holy Spirit!!
I lived through spiritual abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, psychological abuse, emotional abuse and severe neglect.... and God has used all of it to make me the woman I am today and I am so grateful!
God bless you women for speaking out about this. There are so many men and women suffering through this horrific abuse. 😢
Thank you for sharing part of your story with us. What a heartbreaking situation! We're praying for peace and strength!
Sadly I can relate to much of this. God will heal us and get us through each day. In some ways things are worse after the divorce because now he is controlling me through our daughter and she is suffering from his actions. There are many layers to this kind of suffering. Hope you are doing better ❤
It is heart breaking to see all the comments about women who are mistreated in their marriage. However, I wish there was more understanding for men who are deprived or mistreated. In my own story, it felt like there was an assumption that if my marriage was in bad shape it must be my fault. This just added on to my confusion because it felt to me like I have been gaslit by my wife for years. She almost had me convinced that I was a horrible abusive person. However, it just made no sense based on the actual events of our marriage. She had abuse in her past and it was like she just expected it from me and so did everyone else. She even admitted that she would push me some times to test if I would be violent, which never happened. She deprived me of so much of what I wanted and should have received from a wife. However, every time I expressed my frustration or anger at the maltreatment I was receiving, she would make me feel abusive just because I was angry. Even though, that anger was not expressed with abusive words or violence.
Im sorry you went through this and I really encourage you to see a Christian counselor if you can. Sometimes it is the wife who is the abuser. We have seen some marriages like that.
Leslie: Fruit of Repentance 1. They're not telling you what to do/think/how you are to respond. 2. They own the patterns that you've seen. If they don't stop & reflect on what you need ... repentance isn't there.
I lived all of the red flags on many different levels and it’s so liberating to hear it in plain language and know my kids and I were right.
The Lord had me stay for the long haul bcz I would hear Him tell me to stay and that He would be by my side and take me through it .
In the end I was able to serve my husband through all his years of terrible debilitating illness until his death and I’m glad I was able to take good care of him and be there for him.
But until his death he was difficult.
My kids had told me
not to stay at times bcz they also felt his very difficult character.
He was a hard worker and took care of us financially, but he was a workaholic, so it was a double edge sword, so on the one hand we couldn’t let him know we needed him, otherwise he blamed us being non appreciative, we all would of wanted much less but more of him, plus all that work and money investing made him a very stressed person and hard to approach.
The two ladies that have been such a help to me in my confusion and healing are together talking! Love this ! Thank you
Thanks for watching!
I had questioned my ex-husband because I felt like he was cheating on me, and of course, he said he wasn't doing anything. He had started getting home at different hours, having a bag of clothes and cologne in his truck. He pierced his ear without telling me because GUYS at work said it would look good. All these things that weren't him were happening. Then one day I went home early without him knowing so we could talk about things and as soon as he saw me he put his phone down really quick. I asked why he did that and he didn't say anything. So I asked if he could show me his phone so I could just have proof he's not doing anything, and he refused. He walked all around the house, keeping it from me, and even twisted his ankle. That night (Halloween night at that) he walked out on our family. He's always said he wasn't cheating on me, but his actions proved otherwise! Shortly after leaving, he was in a relationship with a coworker! When we know, we know!
And most people devalue someone who IS legitimately controlled. "Um, well, what do you mean that you can't make your own decisions? That's absurd."
It's a way of ignoring things that happen in the dark--real things.
Omg it’s like you are hitting every part of the relationship that I just recently got out of! He was a gaslighter to the full extent!
Oh wow so good. I never thought about asking to look at his cell phone in that way. I’ve always been told by him “why do you want to see my phone I’ve never asked to see yours”. I usually retort with I always said you could and I have nothing to hide. Even our adult children know my passcode. Also like thinking of looking at my life God centered rather than marriage centered. So much good advice in this session.
I went through a marriage like this, I wish these resources would have been brought to me when I was going through it. ❤ I'm so grateful this out there now. ❤
This was me too. I stopped communicating with friends. It was how these men kept me. I don’t want this ever again. I am just now reaching out to friends again. I pray I heal from believing the lies of the enemy through these relationships from my past. These men also told me things like,” you’re not my desire in a woman. No man will ever want you.” All this was so I would stay trapped.❤️🦋
They all are saying bullshit like this 😆
Praying for you today, friend!
No fail . God has taken me out of my darkest moments 🙏
"True love seeks the highest good of the other" TRUE!
“So God might be giving you enough space before knowing the truth to have enough space for you to build up the courage to face the truth.” Spot on Leslie. About to begin my 3rd year in Conquer, Conquering all kinds of hard truths. I am noticing a difference between myself and other women years out of abuse who did not do their work but let stuff happen and just reacted.
In order to get strong enough to say “Enough!” there are all kinds of lies of thinking that I had to start with getting truth on about human value before I could face the fact another person really was capable of stopping what they were doing but refused to. If you are at the beginning of this journey of realisation then “Be strong and of courage for the Lord will be with you wherever you go.” Josh 1:9
This was soooo helpful and healing. Thank you for bringing this conversation to the world 🙌🏼🙏🏼💕🌺
The guest speaker/psychologist brilliantly recommends looking at his cell phone, checking accounts, and asking about whereabouts. This is a practice real Christian men embrace with their entire family. I know a man of God who along with his wife and even their children resort to accountability strategies in place with their accounts in order to safeguard one another in a very risky world. Too many valuables to protect to live blindly! People want that accountability, too! People who want to love sincerely. In that example of the man of God, their children even have access to their parents' Facebook accounts! Incredible. Such an awesome man to welcome and promote honesty among his family.
God bless! Interesting discussion.
Although my Bishop does recommend that marriages stay together in challenging scenarios, too. Because our light -- when it's a real light -- can sanctify him or her. However, he made it clear that each situation is so very unique, so we can't give a cookie cutter response for all.
Thanks for sharing your story this spoke to me and where I am at.
It so important to get a trusted church to support you that can be very undermining to your progress to stand up
This video is absolutely spot on and a God send. You helped me process so much in this short video five years later. WOW! blessings to you both. Thank you for having the courage to share this Lisa and Leslie. So very helpful.
Redflags mentioned here
1. When you feel scared for your safety. Physical or emotional. If you feel afraid to make decisions, afraid to say no...
2. When you are controlled. Eg. Having to ask a husband for permission like a child asks a parent. Micromanaging your life.
3. When you are regularly feeling deceived. It causes you to be unable to trust your partner.
4. When you are regularly devalued. Your opinions, your goals, your needs are regularly ignored.
There's one I didn't note down 😅
You have described my 42 year marriage.
I went through most of the things these ladies spoke about. I finally got the courage to leave. I was literally dying emotionally. It hurt to leave but I know this pain is temporary. If I had stayed, the pain would have been for the rest of my life. I finally chose me! I just made the decision 2 weeks ago, finding this video is so impactful as I just started my healing journey. 😢
We're so glad this video was helpful, friend.
Praying for you 🙏
This has been such a great word for me. Thank you!
I’ve been living in a destructive relationship with my husband and have been “frozen” for very long.
I’ll be listening again and looking into the resources you have recommended. And a counselor.
Thank you again.
Thanks for watching!
It’s so exciting to see this new series!! And SO SO SO SO relevant and necessary in my life; now and my entire history. Thank you Thank you!!! 🙏🏼♥️
We're so glad you like it, Susan! Thanks for watching!
Towards the end of the video, Leslie talks about if there is repentance and change that that can be a way to save the marriage. My question to you is after 30+ years of lying, deception, controlling, gaslighting, devaluing, and multiple affairs, I am struggling to stay in the marriage, even though he is showing definite signs of repentance and trying to change. I am still trying to to come to grips with all that he has done to me and our children. I have so much resentment, anger and shame. I feel like it’s killing me inside to stay. Like you, Lysa, I have suffered with mini physical manifestations and significant health problems as a result of the trauma to my body and mind. I have been earnestly seeking God‘s direction and have been seeing a Christian counselor for two years, but I’m still struggling to want to stay in the marriage. I’m struggling with the guilt of not being “the good Christian wife“ if I leave.
My adult daughters are really confused that I have continued to try to stay and work on the marriage after seeing and experiencing the devastation that my husband and their father has done. I feel like they now see Christianity as a negative influence because I am staying in a marriage that has been so destructive.
Any Guidance or input would really be appreciated
Lysa when I saw you in the beginning of this journey … I have some concerns!
Just between you and me. I have seen your journey from the beginning and then I went thru a divorce! By the way I am 70 years old … so not out to get you or harm you. I knew I hated my marriage… but we went to counselor after counselor, nothing improved. One Pastor actually joined my husband in putting me down! Fortunately I started Counseling with a woman counselor by myself. She was so helpful and supportive. This was before you or Leslie were visible to me. So glad for your openness and hers!
Wish I had seen these helpful counselors because I went through about 4 years of wandering in the wilderness! I did have a friend who gave me a link to Leslie. But I saw you through Elevation Church and the writing group of Proverbs 31 women. So glad you are reaching out to help others.
Yes and Amen! 🥰
I learned so much in Leslie Vernick’s Core course and group.
Thank you both, sooo much!!!
🙏🏻 Blessings overflowing to both of you, your families and your ministries! 🕊
You are both such a huge Blessing to me, and to the peoples of this world. 🕊
She helped me too!! I give Leslie’s resource out often with women who ask for help. I love having her to give to others because she has so much wisdom and experience and she cares for us ladies!
Gosh , lLisa, you are explaining almost word for word what I have gone through, I’ve been divorced 24 years now. I went through 10-12 years of Therapy, because I had childhood abuse too. It was really hard work with The Holy Spirit, my Therapist and myself to overcome. ❤ My Body is still broken down from it and my comment below 😢with my children, I don’t know how to deal with it.
Your teaching for such a time as this is my greatest blessing!! Thank you for sharing your heart and trials that help us move forward!
The Lord allows truth to be revealed at the right times. I asked my spouse to move out after discovering a few emails and lies. It wasn't until he moved out that I discovered thousands of texts and hours of phone calls to a female friend. I could have looked at our phone bill right away but He knew my heart couldn't accept it until I was in a place of peace!! Through it all, God shows us in such tender ways how much He loves us!!! He leads us to truth but gently and tenderly! He knows us well! Stay close, laser focused on the Lord during times of trial!!!! Trust that He uses ALL things for your good!! If you're feeling broken-hearted, you can trust the Lord is closest to you!! Be strong dear friends...we will overcome!!
Romans 8...lean on all of Romans 8!🙏💖
This is so good, wish I found this years ago. My husband was destructive and lied about drastic things. He died in July, heavily in debt and drug use.
I just found this channel what a blessing.
Thanks for watching!
So grateful for both you women. Leslie you book helped actually see the very abusive marriage I was In. Everything in this video was an extreme in what i experience, it was hell for 14 years I finally got the courage to leave 4 years ago.its been a hell since but so glad I got out and your book helped me see it's toxicness and I literally couldn't see it. Lysa. Your books and classes have helped me grow after I left and stay close to God and stay in truth of what me and my children went through. I grateful God has put you both where he has because you have changed my life. Thank you. God has you right where you were meant to be❤️
This is amazing to hearing that I am not crazy and that it is ok to trust the inner thoughts and actions of my own spouse. Thank you for talking and sharing!
So thankful for this conversation Lysa that you provided. Leslies book the Emotionally Destructive marriage, was the first book I read a few years ago, that really opened my eyes as to why I was in so much turmoil and pain in my marriage. Her Conquer group has been a lifesaver for me as well. Before that, the only responses I got from pastors was to pray and to submit. The statistics show that about 25% of women and some men are in some type of destructive marriage, yet so little talk about it in the Christian community. I love your ministry and the theology and therapy podcast has been a lifesaver for me as well.
Thank you ladies for much clarity on my own past experiences. For those relating to this right now, this is GOLD. For me, trust broken needs immediate and intentional calm confrontation. Yet, God has placed security structures for sin in marriages in place, e.g. Matt. 18. If a couple is not equally submitted to God's Word, one spouse acting upon scripture will be ineffective. Free will is a divine power that cannot override even God Himself. Satan's strategy will thus accomplish an unwillingness from the other party to comply and repent. This reveals how far the enemy has infiltrated a relationship and the fight in the spirit realm should be the focus. An unequal yoke has formed and division and disobedience to God as leader of the marriage is dishonoured. I pray healing processes can be made through God's wisdom in His Word and through agreed and regular marriage counsellors who are experienced and Spirit led. Thank you so much for this very valuable interview.
Thank you so much 🙏
I looooove that 30:00 minute mark mention about the importance of knowing what true repentance is! And being truly willing to do inner work to make amends and being truly grateful when you truly truly repent
Really answered many questions TY
Soooo good!!! So much valuable information here!
These are Two women who were extremely helpful and instrumental in my life, in the process of leaving my own emotionally abusive relationship.
I praise God for these women!!!
This was so very helpful! Thank you for offering this to us! It truly is a great blessing. ❤