I wouldn't risk those values. Order new ones they're not that expensive and would be worth the peace of mind. I can understand trying to keep a budget. I'm working on a very tight budget my self but would work it in.
Just did a similar rebuild of a 454 in 2018. I replaced 4 valves that had pitting on the stems and valve heads like yours. The engine would never see a supercharger on it but it was going to be a budget minded mild performance build. The valves were inexpensive to replace and eliminated any anxiety I would have had using the rust pitted valves. That engine is in my brother's '70 Chevelle and it's a tire shredding beast. I used electrolysis to get all the rust out of the bare cylinder heads. By the time I was done cleaning the heads, they nearly looked like fresh castings.
There is no axial load there unless something is very wrong, or you run insane power. Neither of which is going to happen in a rebuilt engine where swapping them would make any difference. The condition for cost and result is the problem.
the stems are fine to reuse, but not fine to try to save the valve with a grind... the biggest problem is the face, the worst intake valve isn't going to lap in and seal properly but seems like its just going to be lapped as best as possible and sent after a DIY grind.
@@frotobaggins7169 I'm sure you're aware how many $100 parts are in an engine. If you go throwing money at each and every one of them you're going to spend thousands. And even then, if it doesn't work, he can always throw the new valves at it later when it fails.
Watching your videos is somewhat soothing and relaxing. I really like seeing that I'm not the only one that makes mistakes and I like that you point them out. Also your videos instill a bit of motivation to keep going on my project. I'm not building the same cars or rebuilding any of the same parts but alot of the info you share is somewhat universal as more "techniques" to try I.E. a tad bit of info to keep in the back of my head when I come to that point in my builds. I know that doing this kind of work and filming it at the same time as well as editing it is, well, time consuming and labor intensive so Thank you for sharing.
@FuzzyDiceProjects I admire your determination to re use the old valves and guides. Although I think with the condition they are in, you may be better off with new valves and inserts.
Do it right or don't do it at all is what i have learned throughout my years. Maybe I am just unlucky but, every time i have tried to cut a corner, it has always come back to bite me.
i just did all of this with mine own heads. lol replace your rust with my carbon and it's the same. i actually own a valve grinder which i was prepared to use. once i saw my bad cylinder, number 1, had burned valve seats with heavy pitting, i was unsure if i could reuse them. after spending days cleaning all the oil build up off the head and valve train, i decided i should take them to the machinist to have them checked for cracks and flatness as i had over heated the engine quite badly, thus the rebuild. when i went to the machinist, all the valves were still in the original valve guides they were in, minus the springs, keepers and locks. he suggested cleaning them, said they didn't look cracked and suggested surfacing as he didn't think they were flat between cylinders 4-6 and 3-5. i asked about the pitting and he said it should be usable. so i had them do the valves and seats. a week later, they looked like brand new heads. his seat machine opened the intake port a little, seats were shiny and the valves had been media blasted below the guide and ground on both ends. they gave me all the valves in a box and two naked heads. the bill was 380. money well spent. i even used the purple power like you did. i originally bought a squirt bottle and quickly realized i needed to submerge this stuff, so i both a gallon. i then realized i needed more so i bought the 5 gallon jug for $36. again, money well spent. i even had to file a valve tip to get the valve out. in hind sight, i would recommend a stone rather than a file, always turning the valve as you grind the burr off. i apologize for my long comment to all who feel annoyed. hopefully someone finds something helpful. my lesson was there was no point in keeping all the valve parts organized as they all get mixed up during the cleaning process anyways, lord knows i tried. i did manage to keep the push rods in order due to using a piece of cardboard to organize the head bolts and push rods. i cleaned them one by one putting each one back as i went.
OMG - enough with the hating!! These valves are fine and I, for one, am glad to see him not spend his way out of everything. Sheesh. It’s kinda the point of the channel.... THANK YOU for reusing this valvetrain!! It will be interesting to see how the engine works out over time.
It isn't hating to state that at least a couple of those valves are beyond reasonable repair and actually present a danger to the finished project. I'm all for seeing things that are difficult to restore be restored and would certainly love to see the majority of those valves treated in that manner. A few of them however are simply so far gone that for what little they cost it borders on irresponsible to not replace them, especially when you consider the value of your time. If you spend an hour of your time restoring a part that costs $5 for it to still be in a questionable state, that is really just a silly waste of time.
@@OmegaGamingNetwork “hating” is perhaps a strong word, true. But he knows what he’s doing, and why, and it’s silly how many times it’s been repeated in the comments. I do see your point that you wouldn’t have to replace all of the valves! But... that also means having to grind the replaced valves and seats, and I don’t know that he’s equipped to do that. I’m not, and I definitely wouldn’t want to pay a shop to do it (and my local shops probably wouldn’t grind just a few - they’d insist on doing them all for “liability” reasons). And I don’t think that’s in keeping with the philosophy of his channel. But you’re right that it‘a not necessary to replace them all. My main gripe is just people telling him what to do with his own engine, on his own channel, as if he wasn’t aware of the risks. And sometimes in a rude fashion. It got me a little PO’d. It will definitely be interesting to see long term reliability, and I think that experimentation aspect is part of his intent...
@@ronskopitz2360 i like your point and generally agree but many times people are speaking from hard earned experience. have you ever seen an engine that dropped a valve while running? total destruction. it will likely ruin everything. no one is saying it can't be done, just that the risk isn't worth it. i don't think anyone is implying he's dumb or doesn't know what he's doing. we all watch because we respect him and his work. there's nothing wrong with a second opinion. he's going to do it his way anyways. sometimes comments aren't just for the creator, they benefit the viewers as well.
Helps working on a Saturday when you see another Fuzzy Dice video to enjoy while you wake up. Those heads and valves were pretty rough, and that's putting it nicely. I am a firm believer in do-it-yourself but I think if it were me I'd have tried to find a better set of used heads to save a BUNCH of trouble. I'm hoping to do an engine rebuild on my channel one of these days. My brother and I just started on an 86 Suburban series. It's pretty darn rough but I think the engine is sound. Hopefully filming at least part of a second video either this afternoon or tomorrow.
the heads will clean up. they could benefit from being professionally hot tanked and shot peened. it's the valve guides i worry about, all the corrosion in them looked pretty bad.
@@frotobaggins7169 a few of the seats looks pretty pitted as well. I've never worked with a BBC before. Do you know if the seats are pressed in or if they're induction hardened? If so having to cut the seats may lead to some expense either way.
@@Trains-With-Shane honestly i don't really know. i'm sure it depends on the year. you can tell by looking at them. press fit seats will have a circle around them for the machined recess. induction will not. either way they will need cut or ground i should say. i don't think it makes any difference if they are press fit or induction. i think the thing that makes the big difference is if the heads are from pre unleaded fuel, maybe early 70's and before.
@@frotobaggins7169 If if was a pre-unleaded engine the seats probably wouldn't be hardened at all from my understanding. I would think that if the engine had been run on unleaded gas for years the seats would have been sunk. This thing is full of mysteries, lol. Hey Fuzzy Dice do you happen to have the casting #'s off of the block and heads?
I love this project as I'm just completing my first ever engine rebuild on an engine with similar damage. Did you consider electrolysis to remove the rust on the damaged valves?
I did consider it, it would have been a good idea to make sure all the pits were totally clean and would not start rusting again. I haven't set something like that up just yet but I would definitely like to try it in the future. Mostly just stick with what I know for time reasons but I would like to be able to take some time to experiment with methods like that on another build in the future.
@@GRudolf94 That's interesting, I am aware that electroplating can cause hydrogen embrittlement but didn't know that electrolytic rust conversion could do the same.
my first thought once I started watching was how’s this gonna work with all the putting from the rust. Now I’m curious to watch the rest of the episodes.
I genuinely enjoy your content and your realistic budget view on rebuilding engines. Like many people have already said you could buy new valves for cheap but what's the fun in that? Just buying your way out of a problem instead of using what you have to do your best to fix it. I hope you keep making videos for years to come!
I used an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight on my valvetrain. Used a 1:3 mix of water/purple power. A couple cycles cleaned the springs, locators, retainers and keepers pretty much like new. The valves came out really good too. Only had to do some light scrubbing with a wire brush after running them a few times through the cleaner. Works great on bolts too.
I am doing my first 350 rebuild, but I did not mark the cylinder heads to know what side they came from.. is this a problem? I did mark all the other things, even the push rods.
If your aren't taking them apart or trying to diagnose a problem it doesn't really matter which side is which. I needed to tell them apart so the valves could stay with the seats they had mated to, but if you switched the left and right heads when putting them on the engine block it shouldn't make any difference.
i did mine the other way around, i put the wire wheel in the drill press and just laid the valve in to it by hand, turning as i went. i used a 3 inch wheel.
you should try the Flat sanding method on the deck surface. i did 220/400/600/800 grits on some LS1 heads and they turned out looking like they were sent to a machine shop. deck was flat within 0.0015in
I believe I’ve heard the valve rotators called popits. Also, why not put the wire brush in the drill press a la hand tool rescue, then manipulate the valve to it?
Every pit in those stems are a stress-raiser in a critical area. Basically it could last, or the head could snap off, ie, if the seat isn't perfectly concentric the reversing load of it seating will snap the stem. Don't change the guides unless you know what you're doing, because they are stepped and if driven from the wrong side can crack the head.
He is making an entertaining TH-cam series. Can $200 do anything but ruin your day for an engine. Not really, but throwing a hundred at it here and there every time something isn't top stuff isn't really entertaining nor educating anyone.
@@cccpkingu Yup, I get that it's an entertaining and educational channel. That's why I watch it. Trying to refurbish something that may be past the point of repair, just for the sake of videoing it is not a good thing for people to learn. You have to know when the amount of effort required, times the odds of getting a successful outcome is outweighed by just using a low-cost replacement. I'd be totally down with Fuzzy Dice going through all the valves and saying "these 12 can be refurbished, but these other 4 need to be replaced because of excessive corrosion (or whatever)". To me that kind of decision-making is worth learning just as much as how to refurbish a head.
All of these parts have clearly defined tolerances that must be observed if any measure of reliability is to be expected. While there are many corners that can be cut, to save tons on machine shop work; salvaging spent valve train parts is not generally one of them. These valves are beyond lapping and should be tossed in the bin. That's not spending your way out of anything, that's just realism - worn/damaged guides, pitted stems/seats are very replaceable and not economically bad decisions. Weighing their value is the same regard as a crank or casting is... shiny parts don't equate to usable parts. There is a bevy of knowledge available that's also budget minded and addresses all of these issues in a very serious and professional manner. Unfortunately, the TH-cam comment section is rarely one of them... especially the ones that dismiss decades of proven technological dos and don'ts, in the world of engine building.
Wouldn't re-use the keepers due to metal-fatigue, just me. New springs, Also replace all valve guides if theyr'e that bad. Small cost items that are a big headache if they fail later. The valve guides can probably only be done properly by a machine shop, so that's probably the expensive part. Dropping an old valve is also bad news. Valves are pretty strong, probably fine re-using those after seriously lapping them and the valve seats. The ones with the corrosion up the stem or sealing area, I'd throw out however.
This might be cargo culty wisdom, but I was under the impression that the bearings in drill presses don't deal well with lateral forces (compared to, say, a mill). Are you concerned about doing damage to it like that? You were applying enough pressure to shift the machine around on the bench.
I'm sure it isn't doing the bearings any favors and, as the other commenter pointed out, side load can loosen up the taper and cause the chuck to come loose. That said, that drill press is cheap and a bit worn out, it doesn't drill the straightest anyway as the bearings were never all that tight. I've put much heavier things in the chuck and done some silly things with it, no issues with the taper coming loose but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
having watched a lot of budget builds, I can say that there's always 100 ppl that pop up saying this or that will not work at all and your build is screwed and won't ever run. Don't let it get to ya, because plenty of other people have run engines that looked worse.
I realize this comment comes way too late, as you likely have reassembled the engine by now. But just a quick search on the Jegs web site shows a set of 8 intake valves for $63, and a set of 8 exhaust valves for $60. I'm not here to spend your money sir, but the phrase "false economy" comes to mind here.
You're definitely right that putting that relatively small amount of money on the table could save time, have a better finished product, and prevent a headache down the line if something goes wrong. But, like many other things on this build, I wanted to try to use what I had and keep from snowballing into more and more replacement parts since there's more than just one problem area in the engine. Besides, if this goes bad it's an example for me and everyone else about what you can and can't get away with. That's probably more valuable information for those who can't afford to replace every little thing.
Yea, I'd buy new valves. They're under a lot of stress and that pitted rust will probably have weakened it more than you think. You don't want a valve head shearing off after all the work you put into rebuilding the motor. The seat will probably need a recut and I highly doubt lapping will remove the pitting from the seat. Engine work just ain't cheap unless you get real lucky. My Subaru EJ22 requires a re-bore and a crank grind due to a single main journal being oversized and bores being 0.015mm outside of factory tolerance. Gonna set me back around AU$1400 just in machine work and another AU$800 for OS pistons and bearings.
If I ever have enough of these car projects in a state where they are actually drivable I would love to get a dirt bike/dual sport to work on. Small engines can be real nice to work on!
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Yes they're a real treat. Easy to work on and diagnose (since there's such little that can go wrong) and a lot of fun once they get going! Well we'll see what happens, I guess
The detailed and complicated nature of this project and all the other things I am helping with right now are really slowing me down at the moment, I hope to be able to get videos up faster in the future. I'm currently with/for other people rebuilding two engines, fixing three vehicles, and building a house. Plus trying to work on my projects and planning for future videos, so editing is going pretty slow at the moment unfortunately.
It would be amazing if there were some kind of liquid invented to put on the rusted valves before trying to remove them. I would have used transmission fluid if not that WD40 you used after wards.
@@tylerblack4027 yeah, it's an expensive project. figure on about $2,000 if it's a chevy 350. other makes cost more. it can be done cheaper but to do it right with the correct machining and replacing the parts that need replacing with quality parts adds up quick. often it's no one thing that kills you it's just the nickel and diming on all the pieces that adds up. i'm in about 500 on doing the heads. the bottom end needs done but that's more money. lol
@@frotobaggins7169 I'm about to have to rebuild a Ford 302 is not going to be cheap I just hope the block I have is savable or I'm going to look for one
Man you have 237K subscribers and an amazing amount of mechanical skill. Why don't you have a bench grinder and why do you use extremely dirty degreaser solution? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Being thrifty is one thing - being cheap is usually stupid.
I never felt I had room for a bench grinder, but a friend gifted me the one you see briefly in this video and when I reorganized I made room for it. I don't like feeling like things are going to waste, I have filtered that purple power several times at this point and it still seems to work quite well. It's obviously a cheap degreaser but I feel like I'm not creating as much waste by continuing to use it instead of just recycling it when dirty. And that aside, you may be surprised by how tight money is despite the subscriber and view numbers. Like so many people trying to work on their own vehicles at home, I have to pick my battles.
It has nothing to do with how much money HE has. There are a thousand channels showing you how you rebuild with tools and/or parts many of us could never dream of affording. I watch (and love!) this channel precisely because he does things “shade tree plus” - using his knowledge and skills to make up for unnecessary spending. Plus, I know part of this is experimentation; I’ve been hearing all my life about how finicky this tolerance is, how critical that clearance is, etc. it’s nice to see some of this nonsense out to the test. Keep doing what you’re doing, Brother Fuzzy!!
I love the budget aim of all this. But one weak valve and you waste ALL of your time and effort, and destroy any chance to repair your engine without machine shop help. Please buy a $120 set of valves.
They were not completely disassembled. Four words. VALVE GUIDES and SEATS!!! Those are boat anchors. Valves are cheap, usually less than 9 bucks each, but new seats and guides are a bit on the pricey side. For a ultra budget build, I'd be looking for salvage heads in better shape. I love what you do, dont get me wrong but in that case of corrosion it would be better find better condition heads.
Love your videos but as other have said you should really get new valves. And you should really get those valves guides checked and replaced at least the one where you had to hammer that one is definitely done for. I get this is on a very tight budget but with all the hours that you've put into this motor and making these videos is it really worth the risk of engine failure just to save a few bucks ???
But then he gets to make another 85-250k+ view video on why we shouldn't skimp on this stuff (if it comes to that) and then we all get to learn instead of everyone assuming you shouldn't skimp on that stuff.
If I was going to get new valves, I'd rather just get better flowing, not rusty cylinder heads. And if I got better cylinder heads, I may as well have gotten a better engine block. And the cheapest way to do all of that would have been to just buy another compete engine, which would mean abandoning this one and admitting I made a bad purchase. I don't want to do that haha so I want to see what can be gotten away with, at least.
the valves need a regrind for sure but the stems are beyond saving so there's no real point in paying to grind them, they are junk... best to hope for is a DIY grind and pray they lap in
Saves hundreds(maybe thousands) in machine shop work and still cheaps out on a $5 dollar valve,LOVE IT.
I was triggered
in india or south america . this would be a job well done
Completely torn down and perfect time to do it right. Smh
Pakistani truck has joined the chat
Shows close up of valve looking like the surface of the moon. " So I've decided to reuse these parts...." 🤯
Road Kill
Absolutely nothing wrong with those valves lol it's a rebuild not a 800hp performance engine
@@jonathanlawson4667 Oh God I've done worse😄 I once fixed really noisy lifters on a 351 Windsor by installing a louder radio!
Between the narration, the filming and the horrors revealed, this makes for supreme entertainment. I could watch this for hours.
Can’t wait to see if this actually runs
It’s fuzzy dice. It’s gotta!
Not if,
when.
Yea it'll run
Stay awesome Winston
İt will
It's Gm motor, It'll run... Maybe not in tip top shape but It'll run for another half a century...
Perfect timing for a lunch watch!
What r u eating
Enjoy your lunch!, it's morning time for me (EST)
10 in Nebraska
Am
I wouldn't risk those values. Order new ones they're not that expensive and would be worth the peace of mind. I can understand trying to keep a budget. I'm working on a very tight budget my self but would work it in.
Almost every episode has a comment like this, lol. Another person was saying the same thing about the crank bearings from an earlier episode.
Exactly. Pennywise, pound foolish. At least replace the very worst one.
Just did a similar rebuild of a 454 in 2018. I replaced 4 valves that had pitting on the stems and valve heads like yours. The engine would never see a supercharger on it but it was going to be a budget minded mild performance build. The valves were inexpensive to replace and eliminated any anxiety I would have had using the rust pitted valves. That engine is in my brother's '70 Chevelle and it's a tire shredding beast. I used electrolysis to get all the rust out of the bare cylinder heads. By the time I was done cleaning the heads, they nearly looked like fresh castings.
The best thing is that you don't put ads in between videos..
I would not take the risk and use such rusty valves, the stem might be weakened and the valve can snap destroying your freshly rebuilt engine.
I gotta agree. And they aren’t that expensive, certainly no where near as expensive as a new cam or anything I would front the money for them.
There is no axial load there unless something is very wrong, or you run insane power.
Neither of which is going to happen in a rebuilt engine where swapping them would make any difference.
The condition for cost and result is the problem.
@@cccpkingu it's always a risk and 16 new valves can likely be had for less than $100.
the stems are fine to reuse, but not fine to try to save the valve with a grind... the biggest problem is the face, the worst intake valve isn't going to lap in and seal properly but seems like its just going to be lapped as best as possible and sent after a DIY grind.
@@frotobaggins7169 I'm sure you're aware how many $100 parts are in an engine. If you go throwing money at each and every one of them you're going to spend thousands. And even then, if it doesn't work, he can always throw the new valves at it later when it fails.
Watching your videos is somewhat soothing and relaxing. I really like seeing that I'm not the only one that makes mistakes and I like that you point them out. Also your videos instill a bit of motivation to keep going on my project. I'm not building the same cars or rebuilding any of the same parts but alot of the info you share is somewhat universal as more "techniques" to try I.E. a tad bit of info to keep in the back of my head when I come to that point in my builds.
I know that doing this kind of work and filming it at the same time as well as editing it is, well, time consuming and labor intensive so Thank you for sharing.
@FuzzyDiceProjects
I admire your determination to re use the old valves and guides. Although I think with the condition they are in, you may be better off with new valves and inserts.
Thumbnail is like both chambers looking at each other surprised 🤣
Do it right or don't do it at all is what i have learned throughout my years. Maybe I am just unlucky but, every time i have tried to cut a corner, it has always come back to bite me.
I know, right? Especially when you don't usually do that, but then you decide to do it once and it backfires like crazy. Never again.
i just did all of this with mine own heads. lol replace your rust with my carbon and it's the same. i actually own a valve grinder which i was prepared to use. once i saw my bad cylinder, number 1, had burned valve seats with heavy pitting, i was unsure if i could reuse them. after spending days cleaning all the oil build up off the head and valve train, i decided i should take them to the machinist to have them checked for cracks and flatness as i had over heated the engine quite badly, thus the rebuild. when i went to the machinist, all the valves were still in the original valve guides they were in, minus the springs, keepers and locks. he suggested cleaning them, said they didn't look cracked and suggested surfacing as he didn't think they were flat between cylinders 4-6 and 3-5. i asked about the pitting and he said it should be usable. so i had them do the valves and seats. a week later, they looked like brand new heads. his seat machine opened the intake port a little, seats were shiny and the valves had been media blasted below the guide and ground on both ends. they gave me all the valves in a box and two naked heads. the bill was 380. money well spent. i even used the purple power like you did. i originally bought a squirt bottle and quickly realized i needed to submerge this stuff, so i both a gallon. i then realized i needed more so i bought the 5 gallon jug for $36. again, money well spent. i even had to file a valve tip to get the valve out. in hind sight, i would recommend a stone rather than a file, always turning the valve as you grind the burr off. i apologize for my long comment to all who feel annoyed. hopefully someone finds something helpful. my lesson was there was no point in keeping all the valve parts organized as they all get mixed up during the cleaning process anyways, lord knows i tried. i did manage to keep the push rods in order due to using a piece of cardboard to organize the head bolts and push rods. i cleaned them one by one putting each one back as i went.
OMG - enough with the hating!! These valves are fine and I, for one, am glad to see him not spend his way out of everything. Sheesh. It’s kinda the point of the channel....
THANK YOU for reusing this valvetrain!! It will be interesting to see how the engine works out over time.
Sometimes it's just for the love of the work, the engine and the car.
@@BR1GADIER exactly! Plus, he clearly enjoys - and is truly gifted at - teaching.
It isn't hating to state that at least a couple of those valves are beyond reasonable repair and actually present a danger to the finished project. I'm all for seeing things that are difficult to restore be restored and would certainly love to see the majority of those valves treated in that manner. A few of them however are simply so far gone that for what little they cost it borders on irresponsible to not replace them, especially when you consider the value of your time. If you spend an hour of your time restoring a part that costs $5 for it to still be in a questionable state, that is really just a silly waste of time.
@@OmegaGamingNetwork “hating” is perhaps a strong word, true. But he knows what he’s doing, and why, and it’s silly how many times it’s been repeated in the comments.
I do see your point that you wouldn’t have to replace all of the valves! But... that also means having to grind the replaced valves and seats, and I don’t know that he’s equipped to do that. I’m not, and I definitely wouldn’t want to pay a shop to do it (and my local shops probably wouldn’t grind just a few - they’d insist on doing them all for “liability” reasons). And I don’t think that’s in keeping with the philosophy of his channel. But you’re right that it‘a not necessary to replace them all.
My main gripe is just people telling him what to do with his own engine, on his own channel, as if he wasn’t aware of the risks. And sometimes in a rude fashion. It got me a little PO’d.
It will definitely be interesting to see long term reliability, and I think that experimentation aspect is part of his intent...
@@ronskopitz2360 i like your point and generally agree but many times people are speaking from hard earned experience. have you ever seen an engine that dropped a valve while running? total destruction. it will likely ruin everything. no one is saying it can't be done, just that the risk isn't worth it. i don't think anyone is implying he's dumb or doesn't know what he's doing. we all watch because we respect him and his work. there's nothing wrong with a second opinion. he's going to do it his way anyways. sometimes comments aren't just for the creator, they benefit the viewers as well.
I appreciate the effort to stay on a budget. But in this case I would buy new valves. Especially under boost.
omg, i forgot about the super charger. :0
Helps working on a Saturday when you see another Fuzzy Dice video to enjoy while you wake up. Those heads and valves were pretty rough, and that's putting it nicely. I am a firm believer in do-it-yourself but I think if it were me I'd have tried to find a better set of used heads to save a BUNCH of trouble. I'm hoping to do an engine rebuild on my channel one of these days. My brother and I just started on an 86 Suburban series. It's pretty darn rough but I think the engine is sound. Hopefully filming at least part of a second video either this afternoon or tomorrow.
the heads will clean up. they could benefit from being professionally hot tanked and shot peened. it's the valve guides i worry about, all the corrosion in them looked pretty bad.
@@frotobaggins7169 a few of the seats looks pretty pitted as well. I've never worked with a BBC before. Do you know if the seats are pressed in or if they're induction hardened? If so having to cut the seats may lead to some expense either way.
@@Trains-With-Shane honestly i don't really know. i'm sure it depends on the year. you can tell by looking at them. press fit seats will have a circle around them for the machined recess. induction will not. either way they will need cut or ground i should say. i don't think it makes any difference if they are press fit or induction. i think the thing that makes the big difference is if the heads are from pre unleaded fuel, maybe early 70's and before.
@@frotobaggins7169 If if was a pre-unleaded engine the seats probably wouldn't be hardened at all from my understanding. I would think that if the engine had been run on unleaded gas for years the seats would have been sunk. This thing is full of mysteries, lol. Hey Fuzzy Dice do you happen to have the casting #'s off of the block and heads?
@@Shane-Singleton right, that was my point. i think he said its from the 90's or the 00's.
With the condition those valves were in, would it not be better to just replace them?
Valves and valve seats are precision mating surfaces,expecting those valves to fully seat and seal is a fool's errand
I love this project as I'm just completing my first ever engine rebuild on an engine with similar damage.
Did you consider electrolysis to remove the rust on the damaged valves?
I did consider it, it would have been a good idea to make sure all the pits were totally clean and would not start rusting again. I haven't set something like that up just yet but I would definitely like to try it in the future. Mostly just stick with what I know for time reasons but I would like to be able to take some time to experiment with methods like that on another build in the future.
@@GRudolf94 That's interesting, I am aware that electroplating can cause hydrogen embrittlement but didn't know that electrolytic rust conversion could do the same.
my first thought once I started watching was how’s this gonna work with all the putting from the rust. Now I’m curious to watch the rest of the episodes.
I genuinely enjoy your content and your realistic budget view on rebuilding engines. Like many people have already said you could buy new valves for cheap but what's the fun in that? Just buying your way out of a problem instead of using what you have to do your best to fix it. I hope you keep making videos for years to come!
That organizer is smart af
I used an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight on my valvetrain. Used a 1:3 mix of water/purple power. A couple cycles cleaned the springs, locators, retainers and keepers pretty much like new. The valves came out really good too. Only had to do some light scrubbing with a wire brush after running them a few times through the cleaner. Works great on bolts too.
I impressed by the Thriftynomics ..but now you got me hooked on this engine build, now I'm Jones'n for the next fix.
Mike don’t squeeze those lemons too hard, you’ll have some weak lemonade! Great video as always!
A 30 degree back cut on the valves, helps flow, a bit. Rotators are prone to failure, and replacing with spacers, or longer springs, is a good plan.
Can't wait to see how you plan to recondition those rusty heads .
Can't wait for the next one
ahhhhh that thumbnail legit unnerved me for some reason those cylinder heads looked like faces
oh good thought I was the only one.
I am doing my first 350 rebuild, but I did not mark the cylinder heads to know what side they came from.. is this a problem? I did mark all the other things, even the push rods.
If your aren't taking them apart or trying to diagnose a problem it doesn't really matter which side is which. I needed to tell them apart so the valves could stay with the seats they had mated to, but if you switched the left and right heads when putting them on the engine block it shouldn't make any difference.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Thank you :)
I like the drill press improvisation
i did mine the other way around, i put the wire wheel in the drill press and just laid the valve in to it by hand, turning as i went. i used a 3 inch wheel.
I would just get new valves. From experience, not worth cleaning. My exhaust valves had pitting on the sealing surfaces, I replaced them.
Excellent content, loving this series (and all your series).
you should try the Flat sanding method on the deck surface.
i did 220/400/600/800 grits on some LS1 heads and they turned out looking like they were sent to a machine shop. deck was flat within 0.0015in
Damn I am so excited watching this series and excited to watch when a new video comes out and sad when it's over so fast
I wanted to put a 454 in my third gen trans am! I hope to see this run, please give a full rundown on this!!
I believe I’ve heard the valve rotators called popits. Also, why not put the wire brush in the drill press a la hand tool rescue, then manipulate the valve to it?
Every pit in those stems are a stress-raiser in a critical area. Basically it could last, or the head could snap off, ie, if the seat isn't perfectly concentric the reversing load of it seating will snap the stem.
Don't change the guides unless you know what you're doing, because they are stepped and if driven from the wrong side can crack the head.
I wish u posted not every month but every week
Pleasant video to watch!
Why did the video end so fast? :((
It's a cliffhanger...lol.
Can you put all these videos on dvd and sell them. I will be customer #1. I love the total home garage builds
Wow you took your time.
It's easy to check if the valves leak.
How much would a new/refurb set of valves cost? If it's less than $100, seems like the way to go.
He is making an entertaining TH-cam series. Can $200 do anything but ruin your day for an engine. Not really, but throwing a hundred at it here and there every time something isn't top stuff isn't really entertaining nor educating anyone.
@@cccpkingu Yup, I get that it's an entertaining and educational channel. That's why I watch it. Trying to refurbish something that may be past the point of repair, just for the sake of videoing it is not a good thing for people to learn. You have to know when the amount of effort required, times the odds of getting a successful outcome is outweighed by just using a low-cost replacement. I'd be totally down with Fuzzy Dice going through all the valves and saying "these 12 can be refurbished, but these other 4 need to be replaced because of excessive corrosion (or whatever)". To me that kind of decision-making is worth learning just as much as how to refurbish a head.
how did the jar of pickled rotators come out?
Thumbnail looks like two minions looking at each other
WOOOOOOOOOO Cant wait for next one
Man reminds me of the fun I had with my 302, that beast got hot before I dug into it.
Never had the chance to work on a BB yet, I had no clue the valve springs were that big.
All of these parts have clearly defined tolerances that must be observed if any measure of reliability is to be expected. While there are many corners that can be cut, to save tons on machine shop work; salvaging spent valve train parts is not generally one of them. These valves are beyond lapping and should be tossed in the bin. That's not spending your way out of anything, that's just realism - worn/damaged guides, pitted stems/seats are very replaceable and not economically bad decisions. Weighing their value is the same regard as a crank or casting is... shiny parts don't equate to usable parts. There is a bevy of knowledge available that's also budget minded and addresses all of these issues in a very serious and professional manner. Unfortunately, the TH-cam comment section is rarely one of them... especially the ones that dismiss decades of proven technological dos and don'ts, in the world of engine building.
Wouldn't re-use the keepers due to metal-fatigue, just me. New springs, Also replace all valve guides if theyr'e that bad. Small cost items that are a big headache if they fail later. The valve guides can probably only be done properly by a machine shop, so that's probably the expensive part. Dropping an old valve is also bad news. Valves are pretty strong, probably fine re-using those after seriously lapping them and the valve seats. The ones with the corrosion up the stem or sealing area, I'd throw out however.
Have you tried electrolysis it is cheap. and works wonders
This might be cargo culty wisdom, but I was under the impression that the bearings in drill presses don't deal well with lateral forces (compared to, say, a mill). Are you concerned about doing damage to it like that? You were applying enough pressure to shift the machine around on the bench.
It's not so much the bearings as the taper. Most drill presses use an MT2 to hold the chuck in and lateral force can make it just fall out.
I'm sure it isn't doing the bearings any favors and, as the other commenter pointed out, side load can loosen up the taper and cause the chuck to come loose. That said, that drill press is cheap and a bit worn out, it doesn't drill the straightest anyway as the bearings were never all that tight. I've put much heavier things in the chuck and done some silly things with it, no issues with the taper coming loose but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
I havent read a single comment about how the thumbnail makes it look like two faces going "Oh Sh*t" at eachother
try boiling rusted parts to convert the rust then hit them with a carding wheel
For a hundred and some odd dollars for new ones, I wouldn't use those valves.
having watched a lot of budget builds, I can say that there's always 100 ppl that pop up saying this or that will not work at all and your build is screwed and won't ever run. Don't let it get to ya, because plenty of other people have run engines that looked worse.
I realize this comment comes way too late, as you likely have reassembled the engine by now. But just a quick search on the Jegs web site shows a set of 8 intake valves for $63, and a set of 8 exhaust valves for $60. I'm not here to spend your money sir, but the phrase "false economy" comes to mind here.
You're definitely right that putting that relatively small amount of money on the table could save time, have a better finished product, and prevent a headache down the line if something goes wrong. But, like many other things on this build, I wanted to try to use what I had and keep from snowballing into more and more replacement parts since there's more than just one problem area in the engine.
Besides, if this goes bad it's an example for me and everyone else about what you can and can't get away with. That's probably more valuable information for those who can't afford to replace every little thing.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects i understand that built I’d literally buy them for you just so it runs good
Valve spring xylophone... 🤣🤣🤣
Dirty Degreaser is the name of my ELO cover band!
Yea, I'd buy new valves. They're under a lot of stress and that pitted rust will probably have weakened it more than you think. You don't want a valve head shearing off after all the work you put into rebuilding the motor. The seat will probably need a recut and I highly doubt lapping will remove the pitting from the seat.
Engine work just ain't cheap unless you get real lucky. My Subaru EJ22 requires a re-bore and a crank grind due to a single main journal being oversized and bores being 0.015mm outside of factory tolerance. Gonna set me back around AU$1400 just in machine work and another AU$800 for OS pistons and bearings.
Another entertaining and informative video!!! Thank you, 💪 💯
WOW some rust old heads and valve's, Im looking fowrad to seeing the bottom end and main bearings.🔬 2x👍
Reuse of old valves has prolly something to do with how he reseats (manual and matched grinding) the mating surfaces.
That's how it's done on a budget 👍 you ignore all the KNOW IT ALLs that say ...THAT WON'T WORK!😂
The mechanics out there will probably disagree with me but, I would've polished em while they were on the drill press as well, make them run smoother.
Would you ever do small engines? Like quad, pitbikes or dirtbikes 😍
If I ever have enough of these car projects in a state where they are actually drivable I would love to get a dirt bike/dual sport to work on. Small engines can be real nice to work on!
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Yes they're a real treat. Easy to work on and diagnose (since there's such little that can go wrong) and a lot of fun once they get going! Well we'll see what happens, I guess
The thumbnail was watching me with its glaring and piercing eyes, LOL
Although I understand why you don’t post that often anymore. The selfish person in me sure wishes you did.
The detailed and complicated nature of this project and all the other things I am helping with right now are really slowing me down at the moment, I hope to be able to get videos up faster in the future. I'm currently with/for other people rebuilding two engines, fixing three vehicles, and building a house. Plus trying to work on my projects and planning for future videos, so editing is going pretty slow at the moment unfortunately.
Hey, I want to make videos similar to yours what cameras + microphone do you use?
Its a good day
What camera do you use?
I live this project
why are they looking at eachother in the thumbnail
Is it me are or the cylinder heads are looking at each other? I cannot Unsee it anymore
此のバルブでは厳しいですね😅
内燃機関専門業者に相談して既製品で、又はストックバーツを探してみては❗同じくバルブシートもダメでしょう？
It would be amazing if there were some kind of liquid invented to put on the rusted valves before trying to remove them.
I would have used transmission fluid if not that WD40 you used after wards.
It looks like a lot of fun I wish I could do this
you can, a few simple tools and lots of time. get a head from the junk yard to work on.
@@frotobaggins7169 what I meant was rebuild a whole engine which I know how to do it I just need money
@@tylerblack4027 yeah, it's an expensive project. figure on about $2,000 if it's a chevy 350. other makes cost more. it can be done cheaper but to do it right with the correct machining and replacing the parts that need replacing with quality parts adds up quick. often it's no one thing that kills you it's just the nickel and diming on all the pieces that adds up. i'm in about 500 on doing the heads. the bottom end needs done but that's more money. lol
@@frotobaggins7169 I'm about to have to rebuild a Ford 302 is not going to be cheap I just hope the block I have is savable or I'm going to look for one
@@tylerblack4027 it shouldn't be to bad, price it out and see.
spin the valve in a drill and use emery cloth..
Man you have 237K subscribers and an amazing amount of mechanical skill. Why don't you have a bench grinder and why do you use extremely dirty degreaser solution? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Being thrifty is one thing - being cheap is usually stupid.
I never felt I had room for a bench grinder, but a friend gifted me the one you see briefly in this video and when I reorganized I made room for it.
I don't like feeling like things are going to waste, I have filtered that purple power several times at this point and it still seems to work quite well. It's obviously a cheap degreaser but I feel like I'm not creating as much waste by continuing to use it instead of just recycling it when dirty.
And that aside, you may be surprised by how tight money is despite the subscriber and view numbers. Like so many people trying to work on their own vehicles at home, I have to pick my battles.
It has nothing to do with how much money HE has. There are a thousand channels showing you how you rebuild with tools and/or parts many of us could never dream of affording. I watch (and love!) this channel precisely because he does things “shade tree plus” - using his knowledge and skills to make up for unnecessary spending.
Plus, I know part of this is experimentation; I’ve been hearing all my life about how finicky this tolerance is, how critical that clearance is, etc. it’s nice to see some of this nonsense out to the test.
Keep doing what you’re doing, Brother Fuzzy!!
What do you think clean degreaser does exactly? You are reaching for the new file my dude.
A set of 8 Manley stainless steel intake valves cost $120.
I love the budget aim of all this. But one weak valve and you waste ALL of your time and effort, and destroy any chance to repair your engine without machine shop help. Please buy a $120 set of valves.
They were not completely disassembled. Four words. VALVE GUIDES and SEATS!!! Those are boat anchors. Valves are cheap, usually less than 9 bucks each, but new seats and guides are a bit on the pricey side. For a ultra budget build, I'd be looking for salvage heads in better shape. I love what you do, dont get me wrong but in that case of corrosion it would be better find better condition heads.
I'm 8 minutes in, and I'm crossing my fingers that those guides get replaced....
Man, you need to invest in about 20 gallons of EvapoRust.
So what you’re saying is , you bought a $200 engine block 😏
$200 rebuilder, wiseass. Pretty sure this guy knew it was gonna have to be rebuilt.
Wow, a set of valves is probably less than $140 shipped for that engine.
I've got my doubts about those valves man. They're gonna leak.
Love your videos but as other have said you should really get new valves. And you should really get those valves guides checked and replaced at least the one where you had to hammer that one is definitely done for. I get this is on a very tight budget but with all the hours that you've put into this motor and making these videos is it really worth the risk of engine failure just to save a few bucks ???
But then he gets to make another 85-250k+ view video on why we shouldn't skimp on this stuff (if it comes to that) and then we all get to learn instead of everyone assuming you shouldn't skimp on that stuff.
See you guys in 7 years 😔
Just get new valves. It's easier and will end better.
If I was going to get new valves, I'd rather just get better flowing, not rusty cylinder heads. And if I got better cylinder heads, I may as well have gotten a better engine block. And the cheapest way to do all of that would have been to just buy another compete engine, which would mean abandoning this one and admitting I made a bad purchase. I don't want to do that haha so I want to see what can be gotten away with, at least.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects I understand completely. I had a sparkplug failure that turned into a completely built forged motor. Lol
Should replace them valves there going to be a problem down the road
BUY NEW VALVES!
She's gonna have some valve train noise for sure. But he's doing this on a budget, so I guess he'll be ok w/that?
Why does the thumbnail look like two concerned faces
the valves need a regrind for sure but the stems are beyond saving so there's no real point in paying to grind them, they are junk... best to hope for is a DIY grind and pray they lap in
the thumb nail shows an engine having an existential crisis.
YES! I'm only here cos I saw the thumbnail and laughed my ass off.
Nice